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PMP POD THE SEASON IS OVER: PAIN · The Poor Man‘s Packers Podcast

0:03
[SPEAKER_02]: The only thing that we hang manners for that we put up around this building is world championships.
0:09
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know the message clear, you know, we just have to play better.
0:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Everybody wants to take a chip and dip it in that sauce.
0:15
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no one to say.
0:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Talk to you in the better place.
0:19
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, but we've got a lot of fucking way to talk to the bull.
0:32
[SPEAKER_03]: What's up, guys?
0:32
[SPEAKER_03]: This is Jeff Anis.
0:40
[SPEAKER_03]: You're listening to 4 man's Packers Hot Dance.
0:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Hello and welcome to another edition for instance podcast for one package podcast in the state of our minds.
0:49
[SPEAKER_02]: I am Spencer joined this with Todd Todd.
0:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Hello, hello, and the Packers lose and I don't know breaking that heartbreaking fashion pretty bad.
1:00
[SPEAKER_02]: I would Where do you put it up there with the ranks of all the heartbreaks we've had?
1:05
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it's not as heartbreaking when you don't
1:12
[SPEAKER_04]: It wasn't a Super Bowl team in my opinion, so it's like not as heartbreaking for that reason.
1:16
[SPEAKER_04]: But like if you look at this game in a vacuum, we should have won this game and that makes it so much more heartbreaking.
1:24
[SPEAKER_04]: It's not even, you know, Niners in the Championship, it's not, obviously, 2014.
1:31
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, I don't know.
1:32
[SPEAKER_04]: I'd rank it in the top 10.
1:34
[SPEAKER_04]: I even put Giants over us in 2011 way above this one, just because like,
1:42
[SPEAKER_04]: of the expectations.
1:43
[SPEAKER_04]: I didn't have a lot of expectations.
1:44
[SPEAKER_04]: How are you?
1:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:45
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I see hocks.
1:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, 2014 over.
1:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I would still say the 06 07 NFC championship game against the Giants.
1:53
[SPEAKER_02]: That was a big one.
1:54
[SPEAKER_02]: My formative years being in high school and being like, oh my god, I thought we were going to win this last one with five.
2:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I would say 2020 is still worse.
2:04
[SPEAKER_02]: 2021 is still worse.
2:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
2:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Those ones for sure other than that nothing really comes to my cause you put 2011 over this one it's close it's pretty close maybe I feel like that one affected me a thousand times more than you like we've talked about the past and like it's not a big one for you I was devastated I mean it's still was because that was so surprising but that one was over like a half time pretty much
2:31
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was just such a weird end to the year.
2:34
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll be actually mentioned this last week.
2:36
[SPEAKER_02]: He talked to Mike McCarthy briefly.
2:38
[SPEAKER_02]: He was asking him about rest first russ, which is very funny to think back up that that's what we were talking about going in the game and we couldn't have came out too much hotter.
2:48
[SPEAKER_02]: But we'll be asked McCarthy about rest first russ, to obviously, you know, talk about like that lion's game with Matt Flynn.
2:54
[SPEAKER_02]: The next week, you know, they came out flat after the buy.
2:57
[SPEAKER_02]: and McCarthy said he doesn't regret resting he regrets the way they handled the passing of Joe Philbant's son that week leading into it.
3:07
[SPEAKER_02]: If you don't remember offensive coordinator Joe Philbant, his son passed away the week leading up to the divisional round game.
3:14
[SPEAKER_02]: He had some personal issues but he like ground out on a frozen lake he fell through the ice.
3:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And apparently like a lot of players from the team went to the funeral and stuff, and the mood was just so bad at Lambo MacArthur, I don't know what he would have done differently, but he just regrets the way that he went about it Um, in that one.
3:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that is interesting though.
3:33
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like what would you do differently?
3:35
[SPEAKER_04]: Because obviously you're going to support Joe right who's your offensive coordinator at the time, so it's like
3:40
[SPEAKER_02]: yeah yeah that's a tough one yeah um for we get into I mean do we want to talk we'll talk about reviewing experience we do go to the park tavern in St. Louis Park it is I don't know if you've talked about it before but it's pretty cool packer bar in the greater Twin Cities area it's a bowling alley restaurant but there is a bar attached to the bowling alley which is strictly a packer bar so all the TVs go to the packer game when it's on and it was fucking we got there
4:07
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, an hour, 20 minutes before the game started and we barely were able to get a table.
4:14
[SPEAKER_04]: It was like a half a table.
4:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, half a table decent viewing experience.
4:18
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I had a lot of fun until I didn't What were your thoughts watching it there?
4:24
[SPEAKER_04]: I had a lot of fun, there was, you know, I think I was complaining to you on enough about certain people near us, but in general, it was a good viewing experience.
4:35
[SPEAKER_02]: There was a woman in what her 40s, 50s near us who, like,
4:40
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, 50s maybe a soft 60.
4:45
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know and I think she was nice enough But she was also talking shit to anyone who wasn't a packer fan, which I could do without like just out of nowhere She just talked shit to people and then it got to the point like she came up to us and we're like we got to be loud And I looked at her and I said it doesn't affect the game and yeah
5:00
[SPEAKER_04]: She was banging her like wetting ring on one of the metal chairs and it was driving me insane Yeah, I just that was like driving me up the wall.
5:11
[SPEAKER_04]: She was very nice And actually the guy there was somebody it was a buffer, but when that guy was gone it was worse, but the buffer was actually just like the best
5:22
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, late 60s, early 70s guy who came out like seemingly maybe by himself.
5:27
[SPEAKER_04]: He lost his phone in the fourth quarter, is trying to get people to help him find it.
5:32
[SPEAKER_02]: He took it with his beer off you because the bar was so busy.
5:35
[SPEAKER_02]: He was going to give you three bucks and you just used your picture important to his plastic company.
5:40
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, he had he he rest over his like, I'll give you three dollars for a half of beer.
5:44
[SPEAKER_04]: I was like, you can keep your three dollars years half of beer.
5:48
[SPEAKER_02]: which like it was pretty funny I mean it was a good viewing experience though I like the park tavern for a lot of reasons yeah would have been a lot more fun if we won it got so quiet there at the end from how loud it was at the beginning and then at the end you could hear a pin drop just about
6:04
[SPEAKER_04]: the peak was the tyrant hopper interception.
6:08
[SPEAKER_04]: It was so incredibly loud.
6:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math, the math,
6:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I mean, being there too because I got a little too hyped up.
6:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I was not proud of myself leaving because like I remember at one point Like there was one there's like a couple of bears fans like level and had a catch and he dropped it one of those and I like aggressively Got up and like clapped in the direction of the bear's fan who she started clapping at the start of the play and then there's a drop in a wind up and like clap Oh, the girl that was
6:47
[SPEAKER_04]: To the front of us.
6:48
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, to the left and I'm like, why did I do that?
6:51
[SPEAKER_04]: Why did I do that?
6:51
[SPEAKER_04]: I just feel like a fucking idiot.
6:53
[SPEAKER_04]: You're just going, hey, you're getting fired up.
6:54
[SPEAKER_04]: It's fanatic for a reason.
6:56
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
6:56
[SPEAKER_04]: It's not logical.
6:58
[SPEAKER_04]: Respondent.
6:59
[SPEAKER_02]: And then my superstation one I said to you guys at half time that if we lost the game I was going to kill myself.
7:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not actually going to do that and then we say those things though.
7:09
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I'm so superstitious like I had my wife who wasn't going to watch the game with us where Packer sweater.
7:14
[SPEAKER_02]: She texted us at half time.
7:16
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, can I take this water off?
7:18
[SPEAKER_02]: It smells and I said, sure, but if I text you, you have to say it's hot and it smells or something.
7:25
[SPEAKER_02]: I think so.
7:26
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I text her.
7:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, hey, I need you to put the sweater back on for real and then she never texted me back got home and I was like, did you put the sweater on and she was like, I didn't see her text.
7:36
[SPEAKER_02]: I was doing my nails.
7:37
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, Oh, is that why we lost?
7:47
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, but he's him like grabbed a couple and then we had more like to start in the fourth quarter looking back on like was it bad luck Zins, you know, and it's just That's just thing is bad luck Zins everyone knows that.
7:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, I guess we'll get into the rest of the game Well, have our therapy session going over what's upsetting us most about the loss.
8:08
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll go over the game as briefly as we can
8:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Take news, we'll obviously talk about Matt LaFlor's future possible replacements if, you know, that's the way the conversation goes.
8:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll also play a Packers news clip with Silverstein and Ryan Wood talking about the culture and the mentality of the team.
8:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Weird, weird takes on like hard asses and if you need a hard ass coach.
8:31
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, we'll talk about whatever else, but yeah, I mean again back to the game.
8:37
[SPEAKER_02]: What what did you hate most about the game?
8:40
[SPEAKER_02]: What is still in the back of your head the most with it?
8:44
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it's just taking your foot off the gas.
8:46
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like you watch those first two and a half quarters.
8:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if we took the foot off the gas
8:52
[SPEAKER_04]: I think we did.
8:53
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm convinced that we did the way, unless they figured us out, but we weren't running any of the man-beaters that we were in the first two-and-a-half quarters.
9:04
[SPEAKER_04]: Like we did, we ran nothing of any creativity.
9:08
[SPEAKER_04]: But that's my take anyway.
9:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think we were super creative in the first half either We had like the jet sweep to Jayden read to start the game.
9:15
[SPEAKER_02]: There wasn't really a ton Else, I mean we did a couple more screens in the second half which I was fine with because you kind of want those high percent Yeah, you're taking advantage of the aggressiveness, too That's an aggressive cause defense because we actually we threw the ball more in the second half percentage wise Then we did in the first half there was also the stat that's one put out there that we played like it was something like
9:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Five plays out a shotgun and 15 under center in the first half and then it flipped in the second half But at the same time, it's like Jordan loved and have a ton of time to throw in the second half So they're trying to get him in shotgun, so he could have more time to throw, but it was just Yeah, I'm sorry.
9:51
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm I'm talking over here, but I I just think I I perceive like what was happening as like no creativity no it's the foot came off the gas
10:03
[SPEAKER_04]: like the intensity was low and just like to lose the game like that to just like implode like that under your own doing like whatever it was fine, maybe then take it for nothing else, but they definitely imploded to do that in a quarter and a half.
10:20
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, go into the fourth quarter.
10:21
[SPEAKER_04]: What was the score?
10:22
[SPEAKER_04]: It was 21 to 6.
10:24
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
10:26
[SPEAKER_04]: how do you lose a game right I mean that's ridiculous like we're the better team the entire game until the fourth quarter and I get I mean like
10:35
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, if you want to crown Caleb as the clutch king, crown him, like fine.
10:42
[SPEAKER_04]: Call me Denny, but like this is ridiculous, like we totally imploded.
10:46
[SPEAKER_04]: It has nothing to do with Caleb.
10:47
[SPEAKER_04]: Caleb took what was there, but he threw two picks, like he didn't play amazing.
10:54
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I don't know.
10:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Pete.
10:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, when he needed to, he played amazing other than that.
10:58
[SPEAKER_02]: He was suspect at times, but yeah, he's just so inconsistent.
11:03
[SPEAKER_02]: For me, I mean, one, it's obviously how can this happen again, you know, we'll talk more about the floor later.
11:09
[SPEAKER_02]: That's obviously part of it.
11:10
[SPEAKER_02]: The timeouts at the end were just ridiculous.
11:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
11:13
[SPEAKER_02]: But for me, I mean, it's, it's fucking, it's brand McManus.
11:16
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't even know really what the fix is because,
11:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if you can find a veteran kicker, like I don't want to trade for a halfway decent kicker if you could, because there potentially isn't really a great kicker in this class.
11:30
[SPEAKER_02]: The one old miskicker is pretty good, but it sounds like he's going back to school, and then it's like you're not going to find a vet, but brand-magnace is just terrible, because one he missed if you'll go against the Eagles.
11:43
[SPEAKER_02]: last year in the playoffs as well.
11:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Back when he was with the Broncos, he had a 44 yarder that would have sent them to the playoffs.
11:50
[SPEAKER_02]: It was either an overtime at the end of the fourth, and he missed it.
11:53
[SPEAKER_02]: He totally shanked it.
11:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it was a full post over.
11:56
[SPEAKER_02]: And then this one, he obviously misses the two field goals.
11:59
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, you can kind of say whatever about the first one.
12:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Mrs. the extra point.
12:04
[SPEAKER_04]: So that alone is the kicker.
12:06
[SPEAKER_02]: which at the time we were like, okay, that's obviously not good, but how bad is it?
12:11
[SPEAKER_04]: And we're like, but as we sat there with it, the more and more we sat there with it, like over the commercial break, we were like, this sucks.
12:17
[SPEAKER_02]: This is bad.
12:17
[SPEAKER_02]: We were with Billy watching the game too, and he was like, well, no, if they score a touchdown or a field goal, it's like, if you get, if they get the 2 point conversion, then it's tied up, and it's like, oh, yeah, that does matter.
12:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but not only that it's like so we cost us 7 points for sure.
12:32
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it was Craig Carmesan on like yes being Milwaukee or something.
12:35
[SPEAKER_02]: He said this on Sunday But how it actually was 11 points that he cost us because it's the 7 points from the actual kicks And if he makes one of those then they don't go for two Which was two more points that the bear's got and then at the end of the game there when we were very easily Go for one, so it's a net of plus one sure.
12:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes
12:57
[SPEAKER_02]: And then, at the end of the game, we would have kicked a fuel goal to at least tie it, right, which is 11 points, which you would have missed, which potentially probably would have missed, like could you, he probably would have shank the shit out of that one, but yeah, so just brutal.
13:14
[SPEAKER_04]: The saving grace of all this is that like this never felt like a team that was going to go win a Super Bowl or even win a divisional.
13:26
[SPEAKER_04]: It's anything as possible that I hate to like just to doubt them, but like at least my hopes for an up.
13:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, we can say that at a fair point, but at half time, too, it's like we can beat Seattle.
13:39
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we looked really good in first half.
13:43
[SPEAKER_04]: This team, if it was two quarters, if this, if you only played two quarters.
13:48
[SPEAKER_04]: And in the right two quarters, too.
13:49
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't we've got to be the quarter front.
13:51
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and we can pick the quarters.
13:53
[SPEAKER_04]: We could be literally anybody.
13:55
[SPEAKER_04]: we've never played four quarters.
13:58
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if we've played three.
13:59
[SPEAKER_04]: We played two and a half.
14:01
[SPEAKER_02]: We played like three in this game.
14:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Again at the end, it was six to half.
14:05
[SPEAKER_02]: And that was the other thing too that I didn't want to jinx it.
14:07
[SPEAKER_02]: After the Matthew Golden Touchdown, my prediction for the score of this game is 27, 16.
14:13
[SPEAKER_02]: It was 27, 16 at that point.
14:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I would have been right.
14:19
[SPEAKER_02]: The defense could have done their job.
14:21
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of stuff there.
14:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and yeah, I mean, it's one of those, I don't know if you had this feeling to it.
14:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure there's like an actual like Japanese or whatever word for it because it's like fun Shway, but like it was one of those losses where when I came home, like the room looked different.
14:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Like like if you're on vacation for a week or two and then you come home, anyway, house just feels a little bit different or whatever.
14:46
[SPEAKER_02]: That's how we kind of felt like when I got home out of the feels like you're not supposed to be there.
14:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's like something's wrong.
14:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Something bad happened and now nothing, nothing in my life is going to be the same again.
14:55
[SPEAKER_04]: I still felt like my house was the same, but I was disappointed.
15:02
[SPEAKER_04]: No, that's the biggest.
15:03
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just like a jack.
15:05
[SPEAKER_04]: Just like to lose it the bears.
15:07
[SPEAKER_04]: in the wildcard like if the bears were really good and we sucked fine like if we sucked fine but like we don't suck but we suck for one or two quarters a game yeah so it's like I'll ask you to say I know the ending was obviously a lot more tragic but last week you said the Niners loss
15:30
[SPEAKER_02]: was worse than whatever, you know, this was going to be if we lost to the bears, this is this worse than the Niner's loss in 2023 for you know.
15:39
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, God, you're the Niner's loss is worse.
15:42
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know how you think, why do you think the Niner's loss is not as bad?
15:46
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just because it's the bears.
15:47
[SPEAKER_04]: Because it's the bears in that team.
15:49
[SPEAKER_04]: I hate the Niner's more than the bears.
15:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I think I hate the bears worse now.
15:54
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think this team was better prepared to make a Super Bowl run than in 2023 when it was still a Joe Berry fucking coordinated defense.
16:04
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know where I want to know where other people sat on this because like if you look at the twenty twenty three Niners people are claiming that Brock parties good, which is a ridiculous statement.
16:15
[SPEAKER_04]: Brock pretty freaking sucks I don't know and he sucked in that he's been pretty good and they're building up the entire time And might do this guy's a this guy's trash.
16:22
[SPEAKER_04]: He was barely plays.
16:24
[SPEAKER_04]: He was trash
16:25
[SPEAKER_04]: And we still didn't beat them, and it's like that's the frustrating like that's where that one kills me This one is like we sell them.
16:34
[SPEAKER_04]: It's close.
16:35
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not saying they're like works part, but it's close for me This one is like we imploded and and Caleb took advantage kind of with a bunch of field goals like I don't know
16:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Good over the game, quarterback, Jordan love 24 out of 46, 323 of 4 touchdowns, no picks.
16:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, one of the big things we said going into the season that it was a huge season for Jordan love is you're going to take that step, you know, a year or two, you kind of play a total little bit, you could say, I mean, I was
17:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Incredibly impressed with Jordan love there wasn't many bad plays I don't know if the delay game is more so on love or lower at the end You know, he sure he had the intentional groundings which were kind of bullshit the first one I think you could say the second one was so apparently if you're getting hit to like it's you're supposed to take that new account It's like he was clearly throwing a crisp brux who is behind the line man that he hit
17:28
[SPEAKER_02]: but we still got like we talked earlier this year about the spirit of the penalty for intentional grounding and it's like in the spirit that was not intentional grounding because I do think he was trying to get the ball to Chris Brooks.
17:42
[SPEAKER_04]: The first one was the second the first one was for sure intentional grounding but what I would say is I've seen plenty of quarterbacks get away with worse.
17:50
[SPEAKER_04]: Which whatever like I'm fine with the first one I guess the second one I'm like dude like
17:56
[SPEAKER_04]: he's getting hit and there's a guy he's getting hit in the second one I think he was getting hit in the second one and Chris Brooks is running in the direction of where the football's thrown he just hits whoever in the back and it's like dude I'm not throwing that flag that's a that's ridiculous
18:13
[SPEAKER_02]: And just the last drive alone, I think is enough to get you excited about Jordan love because seasons on the line, you know, like the first set of downs, it might have been where it's fourth and seven season on the line, you're on your own 30, 35, whatever the hell it was.
18:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And he just fires a rocket to the sideline to Matthew Golden, which he catches and keeps his feet and bounds like that was awesome.
18:34
[SPEAKER_02]: He had the deep ball to read, which he dropped, which was
18:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Probably would have won us the game he could have potentially even scored on that play But if nothing else we get the ball with 50 seconds left out like the 20 25 And then obviously Christian Watts in towards the end there too.
18:49
[SPEAKER_02]: He said after Or on Monday that he slowed up thinking that because there was like a previous window
18:56
[SPEAKER_02]: That he thought Jordan was gonna throw it to so he had like a half step where he slowed up and then after that That's when love fired in there and he was like a you know had one hand on it a little bit behind But God that would have been crazy too and then it was just it was brutal the drop snap I guess at the end too.
19:12
[SPEAKER_02]: You could say it's on Jordan love but that was and that fucking sucked because but even so he picks up the ball
19:18
[SPEAKER_04]: He's panicky, but he doesn't follow on it.
19:22
[SPEAKER_04]: He played it well.
19:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, so he played it well enough.
19:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to give the guys a chance.
19:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess even though I think it was like a manual Wilson and Matthew Golden who didn't really make a huge attempt at the ball.
19:35
[SPEAKER_02]: But that play was supposed to go outside to Romeo Dobbs to pick up like five or six free yards.
19:41
[SPEAKER_02]: So they weren't ready for a Hail Mary play.
19:43
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's why he was like running around for a bit before
19:48
[SPEAKER_04]: You can say like the drop is obviously on Jordan, but the way he reacts to the drop, I don't have a problem with sure, I mean, he made shit happen, so yeah, so you feel good about Jordan love going in the next year.
19:58
[SPEAKER_04]: I feel great about Jordan love.
20:00
[SPEAKER_04]: I again, he's gonna, but even like if you look at his numbers, we'll like we talked about dad tax a little bit on an awful year, but it's like, if you look at his numbers, I don't know he has, but it's, it's, it's
20:11
[SPEAKER_04]: He's got to be, you know, bottom five, bottom 10 in league for interceptions and he's got to be top five top 10 for touch sounds like he's protecting the ball like the dad tax is like a quasi real thing, but like in reality he's he's pretty he's he protects the ball.
20:32
[SPEAKER_04]: When you give him the opportunities to throw the ball and you got to remember this is a year where every time we hit the red zone in the first 10 games right Josh Jacobs got the ball like he could have had 40 touchdowns this year like easy like Plus it was a big up a bit missed two and a half games banged up like I feel really good about your love.
20:53
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't this loss is not on him in the least bit
20:57
[SPEAKER_02]: White Oats, Romeo Dobbs going out on the great game, eight receptions, 124 yards, one touchdown, have 11 targets.
21:05
[SPEAKER_02]: You almost forget how good of a game, Romeo Dobbs had, because all the receivers pretty much had a touchdown.
21:11
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, multiple times where I was like a 20-yard crossing route, or something right by the sticks, where you made the catch.
21:17
[SPEAKER_02]: You had the one drop late in the game, but that was actually probably in that positive because we didn't have to waste more time for sure.
21:23
[SPEAKER_03]: What was that?
21:23
[SPEAKER_02]: He had the touchdown on fourth down on the goal line where he came free on that little like, you know, half fake screen, and then he just ran out wide open.
21:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
21:32
[SPEAKER_02]: We may have a few gold and second leading receiver for receptions 84 yards for one touchdown.
21:37
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, sten out the OC a week ago saying that he isn't going to have a premium roll for them.
21:42
[SPEAKER_02]: And the playoffs just looks dumb or in dumber.
21:44
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you should almost fire him alone for that.
21:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I understand like,
21:47
[SPEAKER_02]: the wicks injury happened in all of that, but it's just still such a funny thing to say about a very, very talented player that is on your offense.
21:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I, I mean, I don't know.
21:58
[SPEAKER_02]: The scramble drill in the second or third, I think it was a second quarter where love scrambling, he's faking like he's going to run and he throws it to Matthew Golden, who broke off his route and ran along the sideline.
22:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, the touchdown.
22:11
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, God, that alone.
22:13
[SPEAKER_02]: That would have been my favorite play of the year dude had we won the game.
22:16
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it was like the Donald driver first the Niners, but just in the red zone.
22:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it was one of those.
22:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he catches it and I'm like, wave my arm like get going because I'm like, there's a crease there.
22:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't think he was going to break all those tackles, but like legit four guys.
22:31
[SPEAKER_04]: There was a crease but it was like closing fast where you're like, yeah, there's he's going to get a few out of this but he's not going to cut it up the field and then he cuts it up the field jumps over a dude makes a move and then breaks it, you know, breaks the tackle at the end to go in the end and I was like, oh, shit.
22:50
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
22:50
[SPEAKER_04]: And especially the same thing that we've been talking about for weeks.
22:52
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's like, how does this guy not have a legitimate
23:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, didn't make sense.
23:02
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, I mean, the the rookie having the hands on fourth and ten two with the season on the line of making that catch was huge, uh, Jaden Reed.
23:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, solid game overall obviously a big drop at the end.
23:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, the touchdown was cool, uh, great move where he like did a weird like spin where he got open in the red zone where he's faking that he was going to go flat and then he just went out right and got it perfect.
23:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, he did say after the game or on Monday that he couldn't sleep that night, I think he said he was up until like 5 a.m. because he couldn't sleep because he was obviously still thinking about that play.
23:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Christian Watson finished 3 for 36 the one touchdown.
23:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, again, beautiful play where you saw him running in the flat and you're like, he's wide open throwing the ball.
23:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it was on like third and short.
23:43
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, and actually credit to you, Spence, you called it.
23:46
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah, the yeah, you said Christian Watson touched down where like ha ha good one.
23:51
[SPEAKER_04]: And then they really love rolls out Christian Watson's right there is like I forgot that I called it.
23:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you're right.
23:58
[SPEAKER_02]: And then he had the one two where I think that was a third or fourth down where we hit him in the flag going in the opposite direction.
24:04
[SPEAKER_02]: And he outran the guy jumped up in the air did not not not the best technique Lucy Goosey with the ball probably hold on to it the whole time you're going through but luckily Romeo dubs recovered it Waste a little bit more time off the clock and eventually Romeo had the touchdown there, so it came out fine, but yeah, I don't know
24:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Just overall, I mean, this is this is the type of offense we were hoping to see from our receivers.
24:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously in the first half there, it was nice to see in the playoffs, just wish we could have seen a little bit more in the game, obviously.
24:36
[SPEAKER_04]: And I mean, that's the four that you want to see it from too, right?
24:38
[SPEAKER_04]: You got dobs, Watson, reading gold.
24:41
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, that's kind of a, if you were to hand pick for to play,
24:45
[SPEAKER_04]: those are the guys and they got fed the ball and with great success too so a guy you wouldn't pick to play what were you gonna say I know no I was I know I was gonna say dobs yeah I was just gonna give dobs credit with that one had a catch I mean that was just I forgot about that yeah because that was on that was when the offense was sputtering too that was huge during an overthrown a little bit
25:10
[SPEAKER_02]: And that catch was perfect.
25:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm going to miss him.
25:14
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll miss him.
25:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't wait for his like goodbye green Bay post, which I think is just going to say like goodbye or he didn't talk to the media after the game or on the locker room clean out day.
25:23
[SPEAKER_02]: So very curious to see where he goes and what kind of contract he gets to.
25:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, what I was going to say, guys, you don't want to target tight ends.
25:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Musgrave one for nine.
25:33
[SPEAKER_02]: What widely had one for seven on the on the last drive there.
25:37
[SPEAKER_02]: But god the second to last drive one of the worse I would say Play calls that they had her series of downs where I think we ran Josh Jacobs for nothing Eared it up to Luke Musgrave in the end zone, which was dropped and then the last play on third down we threw it to Romeo Dobbs Deep going from left to right in the closest end zone corner
25:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Didn't come down with the ball and it was like we should have probably tried to run the clock a little bit better And then right after that make man is missed the kick But again, it's like that last drive when we had all the white-outs that was like this feels right and for one of the last plays of the year When you need it to go to look musk grave when he's not really open and maybe he could have played that ball a little bit better But it's just not not where I'd want the ball go and when you know to season's on the line
26:25
[SPEAKER_04]: I was slightly curious that at the very end of the game that Wiley was in there.
26:29
[SPEAKER_04]: I just was like, what's the, I don't understand.
26:32
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, we're not running the ball, right?
26:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, you're not wrong.
26:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, so we're going to not running the ball.
26:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Josh Jacobs 19 for 55 zero touchdowns.
26:42
[SPEAKER_02]: No, um, I don't know.
26:44
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, second half he was brutal.
26:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Good first half.
26:47
[SPEAKER_04]: He was okay, especially in like the second quarter.
26:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
26:50
[SPEAKER_02]: He did well.
26:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Jammed is foot in the ground, jupped, got a couple more, that was a 13-year-drun, which was his high.
27:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, again, second half whole lot of nothing, but the blocking up front was brutal.
27:05
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we'll listen only had the one carry for three yards, whatever in the Chris Brooks, the King.
27:10
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, he had the catch for 11, which was on that last drive to get us in a field goal range Had run for 16 as well, and then I don't know.
27:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean fine.
27:21
[SPEAKER_02]: I was glad Chris Brooks was out there as much as he was because especially a second half We needed more pass blocking, but he couldn't do enough because the offensive line was pretty pretty bad
27:32
[SPEAKER_02]: The old line.
27:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
27:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, terrible, terrible second half.
27:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Probably.
27:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, if you're ranking reasons why we lost, I would say McManus is first the offensive line might be second.
27:46
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you know, that's not even mentioning the defense and how Kishan and fucking Nixon played at the end there.
27:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Um,
27:53
[SPEAKER_02]: yeah offensive line terrible terrible second half Jordan Morgan actually played pretty well filling in for Zack Tom who is a bit of a surprise inactive he did practice limited during the week once or twice had a rest day he did reveal on Monday that he has a partially torn but
28:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Patella tendon.
28:12
[SPEAKER_02]: He told Will be after the Broncos game that he wasn't going to tell him what the injury was Which is never a good sign and apparently he we got like injected with blood his blood platelets or some shit That was supposed to help him heal better But obviously not enough.
28:27
[SPEAKER_02]: He's gonna have to get surgery too and he'll be out a minimum of six months So it'll be close for him to be ready at the beginning of next year
28:35
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, hearing that, that's like, okay, that makes some more sense.
28:38
[SPEAKER_04]: But I was shocked, I was like, shit, we let the students sit.
28:41
[SPEAKER_04]: I even forgot that he went out with a knee injury.
28:44
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
28:44
[SPEAKER_04]: I was like, oh, I was just assuming these entire, like, last couple of weeks that I was like, oh, he's just like, we're letting the oblique heels.
28:51
[SPEAKER_04]: The oblique doesn't turn up again.
28:52
[SPEAKER_04]: And then it's like, oh, shit.
28:54
[SPEAKER_04]: That's right.
28:54
[SPEAKER_04]: You went out.
28:55
[SPEAKER_04]: I think you brought up.
28:55
[SPEAKER_04]: You're like, no, he went out with a knee injury.
28:57
[SPEAKER_04]: I was like, oh, fuck, I forgot.
28:59
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's a bummer, but like, honestly,
29:03
[SPEAKER_04]: did it affect the game, not as much as everybody else playing like shit.
29:07
[SPEAKER_04]: That's a thing that is Jordan Morgan, what's his replacement and he was one of the better guys on the offensive line and and Sean Ryan going out at the end doesn't help matters.
29:16
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean granted, there's only a few plays left by the time he goes out, but it's like you want your center in in the two minute, if you're going to, you know, I mean, you might call him coverage, you're calling, um,
29:27
[SPEAKER_04]: Protections and stuff like that like that's tough.
29:29
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
29:29
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just the timing of all that was not good in the timing for I mean It's seemingly our guards played Or this is the worst game of the year, and it's just not good timing.
29:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I don't think banks played great But Anthony Belton really struggled in the second half.
29:44
[SPEAKER_02]: They really started blitzing more and stunting more on the defensive line And he was not picking up.
29:49
[SPEAKER_02]: They were just missing guys.
29:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it was pretty back as a Jordan Morgan would pick the right guy And then Belton would always be late to pick up whoever he let off of
29:56
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's what, I mean, at the end of the game there on the Christian Watson throw, I build a card.
30:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe it was Rashid Walker.
30:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe he was built in.
30:06
[SPEAKER_02]: But one of those guys, they let their guy go through and a journal of kind of gone all the way through while throwing the ball.
30:12
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe he would have been a little bit better and Watson would have came down with it.
30:25
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think is there a call for like if he sees a stunt I don't know maybe he's a little bit more veteran and can see when things are wrong But when a defensive tackle is coming free.
30:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if he'd be able to run I'm up.
30:38
[SPEAKER_04]: No, I just mean like the stunts like it's just he help with the stunts.
30:42
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
30:43
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think so
30:43
[SPEAKER_02]: you mentioned Sean Ryan getting hurt.
30:45
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, he got bullied a little bit in the second half as well.
30:49
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of people were really, really mad about him getting hurt in the ten second runoff.
30:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the commentary coverage really picked on it, but personally, I don't, I'd like to see what the difference would be because we're not a very fast two minute offense anyways.
31:03
[SPEAKER_02]: That's one thing Jordan's really struggled with.
31:05
[SPEAKER_02]: and was another thing that pissed me off about this game because we were so bad at the end of the game against the cowboys and we weren't much better if maybe even worse in this game.
31:16
[SPEAKER_02]: But the 10 second runoff, I'm like, I don't know if Sean Ryan can run off in that time, have Latisha Smith, let's see the Smith, run in and snap, like snap.
31:29
[SPEAKER_04]: No, here's saying people are like mad at Sean Ryan.
31:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's a lot of people were.
31:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Which he said he had a bone bruise.
31:36
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, two guys helped him off the field, but it's still like Getting in having a new center run in and it was like 25 yards down field.
31:44
[SPEAKER_02]: He's also a left-handed snap or which is different.
31:47
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like That's not good but Looking at the totality of the circumstances.
31:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not as upset that they had time to get set with a new center in there And again, I don't know how much things would have been rushed or
32:03
[SPEAKER_04]: So in my experience playing for an elite high school, if somebody got hurt, the coaches did always tell you to sit down and part of the reason was is then they had time to figure out who was going to replace you.
32:20
[SPEAKER_04]: They didn't really, I don't think they ever really outright set up, but it was like that's the only thing that really makes sense is that like, if you get hurt, they need to find, they need 10, 15, 20 seconds to figure out like, hey, someone get their helmet on and get in there and we got to tell you what to do, like that type of thing, so it's like, you know, sure, you know, it'd be great if you didn't get hurt, right?
32:41
[SPEAKER_04]: We'd have plenty of time, and we'd be a net positive, but like, I agree with your point of like, if he, if he gets hurt and he hobbles off,
32:49
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, now you have the clocks running like, and does that actually hurt you more?
32:54
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
32:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Is Jordan what does it say to see if he's off the field?
32:58
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a ridiculous thing to just, I don't know, to criticize what's the same for it as a ridiculous.
33:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and on top of it too, which I didn't mention, it was the third string center because Jacob Monka hurt on the field great protection unit.
33:13
[SPEAKER_02]: So it was just not ideal.
33:16
[SPEAKER_04]: We knew at the beginning of the season, the Titus Smith was going to play a pivotal role in the season.
33:21
[SPEAKER_02]: I said it was going to make the 53.
33:22
[SPEAKER_02]: He wasn't on the team at all until November, December, when he got out of the practice squad and he started 18 at guard and then he had to come in at the end of the game to play center for us.
33:35
[SPEAKER_02]: And then Rashid Walker, who is probably the worst of the bunch.
33:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, got one of the worst games of his career, constant pressure, let up in the second half,
33:45
[SPEAKER_02]: The second to last drive as well.
33:48
[SPEAKER_02]: He had a holding on one of the last two drives, also the third one, which was terrible.
33:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Just bad overall from him.
33:55
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not going to miss him.
33:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm looking forward to seeing what Jordan working can do their next year, and then we have to talk about Daryng Kanard, and we've mentioned it.
34:02
[SPEAKER_02]: But the little catch run, fumble, kicked it, goes out of bounds.
34:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you remember how many total fumbles there were in this game?
34:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought this was nuts.
34:13
[SPEAKER_02]: It didn't realize this until two days after.
34:15
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't even know was there there was his Josh Jacobs.
34:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh two on two on returns Shit, maybe there was four There was seven total fumbles in this game including the bears and none of them were turnovers They were all recovered by the team that fumbled the ball wow.
34:36
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like how often does that shit happen?
34:39
[SPEAKER_02]: That's crazy
34:40
[SPEAKER_02]: And then people, I mean, you were saying we didn't have creativity.
34:42
[SPEAKER_02]: We did throw it to Canard there.
34:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, floor did say on Monday.
34:45
[SPEAKER_02]: That was creative.
34:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, on Monday, that that was not the plan for the play, but because Jordan got pressured so early, he needed an outlet, and he was the closest guy.
34:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, he is not supposed to ever get the ball there.
34:57
[SPEAKER_02]: And I mean, truck on the first dude was great.
35:00
[SPEAKER_04]: Here's the thing.
35:01
[SPEAKER_04]: That's what I love about Jordan is like hey, that's not the guy But it's like that's a guy that's open.
35:07
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm getting pressured.
35:08
[SPEAKER_04]: Here you go.
35:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I love it With that we will have a quick commercial break and we are back with the defense the defense a pretty pretty good game if you only count Three quarters fourth quarter
35:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, yeah, brutal.
35:28
[SPEAKER_02]: So what was their big worry going into this game on defense?
35:33
[SPEAKER_04]: I remember, was it that stopping was going to stop the run?
35:36
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, stop the run, but I wasn't worried about that because we had stopped the run before.
35:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure, but it was still, you know, that Raven's game is the last time I actually saw our starting defense.
35:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Not worried.
35:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Rundee, held up pretty well, only allowing 3.3 yards per carry, pretty damn good.
35:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Got what did we average as a team?
35:55
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't even tell here.
35:56
[SPEAKER_02]: No, it doesn't, it's not telling me, um, but yeah, I don't d-line, I don't understand.
36:02
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, Gary, not a good game.
36:05
[SPEAKER_02]: We saw him loafing around.
36:06
[SPEAKER_02]: He did have a couple pressures.
36:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, like he's, he's not good, but he's not awful in my opinion, the the visuals are pretty bad at times, but
36:17
[SPEAKER_02]: He had a couple pressures on third downs where he was the guy who got Caleb off this point.
36:22
[SPEAKER_02]: He had the tip ball, which was almost intercepted.
36:25
[SPEAKER_02]: I think on third down, I mean, again like quarter second of that being a strip sack.
36:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Probably not going to be back next year.
36:32
[SPEAKER_02]: I hope he's not.
36:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Todd, what do you got to say about him?
36:35
[SPEAKER_04]: I just think like, she has a, he has a move.
36:39
[SPEAKER_04]: He has his bull rush.
36:40
[SPEAKER_04]: when it hits hits.
36:42
[SPEAKER_04]: But that's right.
36:43
[SPEAKER_02]: He was like back to back to back.
36:45
[SPEAKER_04]: He was bull rush like he was getting to Caleb.
36:48
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
36:48
[SPEAKER_04]: He's still fast enough.
36:50
[SPEAKER_04]: Like he's not as fast as he used to be, but he's strong and explosive enough that like his bull rush does work.
36:56
[SPEAKER_04]: It's when you run into certain like I feel like every time when he's on the right side and you're going up against typically the right side has like a bigger tackle.
37:05
[SPEAKER_04]: He's not, or like a more of a run blocking type tackle.
37:09
[SPEAKER_04]: Anyways, I don't know if that's true anymore or not, but it's usually, it feels like the right tackle typically is able to subdue Roshan.
37:18
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's usually where he was when Michael was on the field.
37:21
[SPEAKER_04]: Now he had the opportunity, I think both times he had those two pressures that we're talking about was on the left side.
37:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
37:27
[SPEAKER_04]: And so he has a chance to go against maybe like a lighter longer, more flexible tackle where he can bully him a little bit.
37:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, and I mean, that left tackle digger hurt in the game, but we didn't see much more pressure after that happen.
37:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, LVN, I mean, he had a solid game, um, had the strip sack of Caleb Williams, which they, of course, recovered like we talked about, but it, you beat the dude off the line, looking forward to seeing him next year with Mike and whoever else we have because we're probably going to lose JJ as well.
37:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, JJ, he had a solid game.
37:58
[SPEAKER_04]: What is he going to go for though, like can we keep JJ?
38:01
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a guy I want to keep.
38:05
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, because they they can make a lot of money like Zedarius Smith was kind of in this type of role with the Ravens before we signed on that's a good comparison actually.
38:13
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think he's going to get a deal anything close to what we gave Zedarius because I think we made him and Preston both like top 20.
38:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, paid edge rushers at the time, but they had that big game in the big play in the first half where they had like a little mini reverse And he snuffed it out immediately for four yard loss.
38:32
[SPEAKER_02]: So that was nice Carl Brooks had a really really good game after not doing much all year I mean had the beautiful pressure on it was like third or fourth down on Caleb Williams where you ran up and just had his head his hands up there
38:45
[SPEAKER_02]: That was good had another one too where he actually got his mits on the ball so heat for a defensive tackle He'd pretty well and then Colby wouldn't I mean he had hit one pressure pretty late.
38:55
[SPEAKER_02]: That was good But God the one I remember was I think it was like second and ten or first and no it was second and ten They ran to the right
39:03
[SPEAKER_02]: He didn't meet contain on that side Swift ran around him and picked up a first down.
39:11
[SPEAKER_02]: It should have been a third and ten at least Yeah, but they turned to a first down and eventually good touch down.
39:16
[SPEAKER_04]: You reverse field.
39:17
[SPEAKER_04]: Is that the one you're talking about?
39:18
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
39:19
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's not so I don't know.
39:21
[SPEAKER_04]: I feel like with JJ though.
39:22
[SPEAKER_04]: Like I guess let me ask you this question Would you rather keep JJ or Quay?
39:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
39:30
[SPEAKER_04]: I owing their contracts will be different.
39:32
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't really want to keep either at this point.
39:36
[SPEAKER_04]: You don't want to keep changing at all?
39:37
[SPEAKER_02]: No, well, I mean, unless he's cheap, but I don't think he's going to be cheap, you know?
39:41
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it does the number matters, obviously.
39:44
[SPEAKER_02]: We have more depth at edge and I'd rather use that money on like a corner or a defensive tackle.
39:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Not like we're going to have a lot of money this offseason, but I just think that's more of a need.
39:55
[SPEAKER_02]: And then inside of linebacker to it's like,
39:58
[SPEAKER_02]: After this year it's gonna be another tough contract here because it's like of these guys again It's you know like Rashid Walker, Romeo, Dobbs, Sean Ryan, J.J., Malik, Willis are all gonna be free agents And it's like, I don't know if any of those guys are super necessary like Sean Ryan's probably the one that I would bring back Of that group because because of this funny yeah that Sean Ryan ends up being the guy that we're like we got to bring him back Right
40:25
[SPEAKER_02]: And like Quay and Cooper are huge for the defense and like that speed that we have, but I'm just looking to next year where Jayden Reed, Dante bin Wix, Christian Watson, Tucker Craft, Devon to Wyatt.
40:38
[SPEAKER_02]: They're all going to be in contract years.
40:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
40:40
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like I'd rather just save up the money now, rather than play someone who I think we have better death at their positions.
40:49
[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know.
40:50
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll just see how the offseason goes here.
40:52
[SPEAKER_02]: So Quay is your answer.
40:53
[SPEAKER_02]: You really keep quiet.
40:55
[SPEAKER_02]: I'd rather keep Sean.
40:56
[SPEAKER_02]: You can keep on keep one.
40:57
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess I guess Quay But it's whatever linebacker Cooper was having a great game until he got hurt Dusty Everley put this out on Twitter pre-endry the defense was allowing 4.8 yards per play after he got hurt.
41:14
[SPEAKER_02]: It was 7.0 Pretty bad
41:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Geez.
41:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And I mean, it really hurt in this game too, because Lovelin, I don't know if you remember this and God, we should have talked about them more in the preview, absolutely demolished us.
41:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, finished with 137 yards, linebackers were just not getting the depth they needed on a lot of those throws, and especially when Cooper gets hurt and then it's McDuffie and Quay, who are supposed to get back there, it just wasn't just wasn't happening.
41:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Cooper had the TFL in the first quarter, also had a past-offended at the line of scrimmage on a fourth down, almost had a pick, yeah, that's what it was.
41:49
[SPEAKER_02]: He almost had a pick on the ball that Gary tipped, wasn't able to come down with it.
41:56
[SPEAKER_02]: And I mean again, Quay didn't have a great game, he did have that one TFL in the first half, but other than that, again, Lovelin just fucking killed us.
42:03
[SPEAKER_02]: couple times of the second half two where he looked a little lack of daysicle as well.
42:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, it's just in that do you see the comments you said after the game too?
42:13
[SPEAKER_03]: Quay.
42:13
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
42:14
[SPEAKER_02]: No, they like asked them about La Flore and you know losing and all that and who at one point in his quote It wasn't nearly this damage when you focus on this party said yeah, I mean this kind of stuff was happening before I even got here And it's like that is not the shit that you want to hear a guy who has a captain patch saying After you lose in the playoffs, so that's another reason why I'm like okay, Kway you can you can go if you've got that kind of attitude to
42:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, Isaiah McDuffie, good and bad.
42:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, by Golly does he try his best when he's out there.
42:44
[SPEAKER_02]: He had the clowns a couple times.
42:46
[SPEAKER_02]: He did have that one pass break up.
42:47
[SPEAKER_02]: That I was wondering if they were going to throw a flag for P.I.
42:50
[SPEAKER_02]: because he didn't get his head around.
42:52
[SPEAKER_02]: And it turned his head just a little bit.
42:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Just a little bit.
42:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, pressured Caleb on that fucking fourth and eight, which I hate that too.
42:59
[SPEAKER_02]: How the bears now have their fourth and eight at soldier field.
43:02
[SPEAKER_02]: And we had our fourth and eight with Rodgers to Cobb.
43:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Roodle.
43:07
[SPEAKER_02]: There was a third down where it was third and ten where Caleb had to do it over the middle and McDuffy and I forgot who else was in coverage.
43:15
[SPEAKER_02]: McDuffy fucking threw the bear player he was nearest into the other packer defender.
43:21
[SPEAKER_02]: So then they picked up the first down.
43:23
[SPEAKER_02]: That was hell yeah.
43:24
[SPEAKER_02]: No, it was fucking brutal.
43:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
43:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Hopper.
43:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, he had a pick.
43:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Apparently I heard people say he played pretty well too.
43:31
[SPEAKER_02]: So again, you know, between him and McDuffie, maybe we can have someone, you know, in the aggregate that can replace Quay, and the nickname and first offensive snap, I think of the year, the two point conversion where we were in heavy, which why was he in there?
43:47
[SPEAKER_02]: because we call for four linebackers there so he's naturally like that's the only time he would ever be on the field and of course the bearers took advantage of that and it's hemverse lovelin and then obviously he made him look pretty so I don't even think Nyman had any special team snaps in this game either which is a little strange but yeah that middle zone was just wide open the entire time yeah every time they needed a choke play they got it it was like oh what oh the ball is at the 40 now like oh it's at the 50
44:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Secondary it's like you needed to just drop somebody into a Tampa to coverage like a linebacker the Tampa to where they just sit back there Like Brian or Lacker you saw is you and it's just like a pain in the ass at throw over the middle But yeah, yeah, and it's weird cuz we've that's been an issue all year last year We had Anthony Campanelli who's now the defense of coordinator for the Jay wires and he had a pretty good season According to that defense and his replacement was I believe his name is John Duggan and it's Duggan for sure But he's the linebacker coach
44:47
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought he would have coached the guys up a lot better this year.
44:50
[SPEAKER_02]: He was Jeff Haffley's assistant DC at Boston College.
44:54
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of people thought he was going to be the linebacker coach last year.
44:58
[SPEAKER_02]: So I assumed he'd be halfway decent and we could not cover tight ends or drop into our spots.
45:06
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll fucking hear in the middle of the field.
45:07
[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't he might be a guy who gets replaced as well of Haffley leaves.
45:11
[SPEAKER_04]: Something that you never thought about when you were like a teenager, young adults, like watching football is like how much coaching matters and then you get older and you're like Fuck, we lose, you know, a certain offensive line coach and the offensive line slowly goes on here.
45:26
[SPEAKER_04]: You lose your linebacker coach to go be a DC somewhere.
45:30
[SPEAKER_04]: He does great, but your linebacker suffer.
45:32
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's like, fuck, like coaching matters like
45:34
[SPEAKER_02]: as you get older like shit this stuff actually does matter like yeah and we'll talk a little bit about that later to Justice Miss Gatorrow a really really good piece about the coordinators and position coaches on this staff and how much experience they have and it's
45:50
[SPEAKER_02]: What I've been hinting at all year, and I'm glad Justice pulled all the stats together because I love justice.
45:55
[SPEAKER_02]: He's the best.
45:55
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like the people I respect the most.
45:57
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, will the Tom Silverstein, Bill Huber, and then Justice are like the top guys I feel like.
46:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Mike Phantomius.
46:06
[SPEAKER_02]: It's funny that you even remember his fucking name.
46:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I do.
46:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I remember his Twitter back.
46:12
[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
46:13
[SPEAKER_02]: The old guy.
46:13
[SPEAKER_02]: That's with the collar sticking out.
46:16
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm pretty sure.
46:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Secondary.
46:18
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, again, we couldn't stop lovelin to save our fucking life.
46:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Passed over the middle.
46:22
[SPEAKER_02]: We're open all night.
46:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Carrington Nixon were both pretty fucking bad.
46:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Whoa, Carrington got a pick.
46:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I did, so one of the guys at the bar was pretty funny because everyone's like, why did he pick that off?
46:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Why did he pick that off?
46:35
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's like, no, no.
46:37
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's just pulling this out.
46:38
[SPEAKER_02]: He's pointing at his temple.
46:39
[SPEAKER_02]: He's like, he's just getting in his head.
46:40
[SPEAKER_02]: And then it was funny because the same thing happens with fucking hopper and his hopper's in his head.
46:46
[SPEAKER_02]: He's gonna say if it's like, at least that one was returned pretty close to the Linus Grimichellies.
46:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but yeah, I had that.
46:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Gary didn't have the pick that he shouldn't have, but God, which is like, what do you, I, that one is wild to me.
46:59
[SPEAKER_04]: The Carrington pick.
47:00
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like you miss all the picks all year.
47:02
[SPEAKER_04]: And then you catch that one that puts a set like the eight yard line.
47:06
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a, come on, dude.
47:08
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, what do you, don't catch that?
47:10
[SPEAKER_02]: He was picking a room.
47:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Nobody around you.
47:12
[SPEAKER_02]: He was picking wrong all night for who he should cover to be.
47:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Go ahead, touchdown was on him or they faked.
47:18
[SPEAKER_02]: the little bubble screen and then DJ Moore just kept running straight and was wide-ass open.
47:23
[SPEAKER_02]: That was valentine.
47:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's right.
47:25
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean Nixon obviously a bad game too.
47:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm kind of, I don't know what the fuck to do with Kishon.
47:30
[SPEAKER_04]: You see his business decision in the end zone with, was it monungaires?
47:34
[SPEAKER_02]: It was with towards the end.
47:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And they're not even a big dude.
47:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that was to get them up to 16 points.
47:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I believe and he just didn't go after Swift or the baller anything especially in the game where we saw Christian Watson fumble the ball at the one yard of it At the goal.
47:50
[SPEAKER_02]: It's okay, maybe you could do something here
47:54
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'm not saying he was going to stop him, the goal line stand stand them up, but it's like, dude, you go for the ball there.
48:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
48:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, he undercut the route on 4th and 8th.
48:05
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how much better it would have been if you just stay with DJ instead of trying to undercut it and pick the ball off.
48:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, again, it was fucking fourth down anyways.
48:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, match night bin did talk to him on Monday and it was after like he was talking to the rest of the press.
48:20
[SPEAKER_02]: And I kind of wish Matt didn't do this, but he was like, hey, so you're the number one corner.
48:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Are you going to ask for a raise this off season?
48:29
[SPEAKER_02]: And Keeshan was like, oh, yeah, I guess I didn't really thought about it, but yeah, I'll probably do that.
48:34
[SPEAKER_02]: And then Schneidman did follow up and say, well, then he kind of him didn't hide on it a little bit more, because I'm like,
48:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll take Kishan back, I guess, but I don't want to give him any type.
48:47
[SPEAKER_02]: The only reason why he's a benefit to this team is because he's so fucking cheap and he can sum up play corner.
48:54
[SPEAKER_02]: But now it's going to the point, especially like he had that 15-yard penalty for jumping on the pile.
48:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll be at the pile, didn't even fucking exist.
49:01
[SPEAKER_04]: That was a bad call though.
49:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Bad call, but still he jumps on nobody.
49:04
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's like you shouldn't be doing that still though, especially when three weeks ago they got penalties for that same fucking thing.
49:10
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's just again with this team where of course everyone's talking about the culture and how tough they are and all that It's like Kishan's a guy who talks a lot of shit and really doesn't back it up a lot of the time And it's kind of just wearing thin on me at this point
49:26
[SPEAKER_04]: He is a good returner.
49:28
[SPEAKER_04]: I would take him back to be a returner slash third fourth string quarter.
49:34
[SPEAKER_02]: But that's if he was demoted to like I'd be happy if he was the second or third corner, he is going to be a nightmare in the locker room because of the way he cares himself like I don't think he'd go down quietly if that's what the team wanted to do with him.
49:47
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know I'd like to see if you could trade them.
49:49
[SPEAKER_02]: almost this off season he's got a very tradable contract to we don't have a lot of depth there but it's like I would trade his contract and maybe his contract is something trade friendly and I feel like that's like the dirt cheap contract can't believe he signed it down well that's back when he wasn't playing defense and he was just like the kick returner for the most part
50:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Special teams I'm in again.
50:10
[SPEAKER_02]: We're not going to talk about McManus kind of stuff.
50:12
[SPEAKER_02]: So 11 points.
50:13
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't trust him.
50:14
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if I want to get rid of them just because Kickers are either really really good or really bad in this league right now, but it's like I would just like to feel good About 45 yard fuel goals all of the time and he wasn't able to do that at all in this game Then God I get so rich Pisa Chia You know me and especially last year I bitch about rich
50:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't really blame him as much in this game.
50:43
[SPEAKER_02]: We were short a guy on the field goal block at the very end of the extra point.
50:47
[SPEAKER_02]: We weren't going to block it anyways, so that's kind of whatever.
50:51
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's like, it's not like Rich's fucking telemic man is how to kick a ball.
50:55
[SPEAKER_02]: But special teams, coordinators aren't kicking specialist.
50:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Like Rich can't kick a fucking football.
51:00
[SPEAKER_02]: He can't tell, make man is how to kick a ball.
51:02
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we had such good gunners all year with Bow Mountain and Zain Anderson, and then they both go out the last month of the season, Bow just the week before.
51:13
[SPEAKER_02]: So now we have Katanula Doppel out there, not containing on the outside edge of that one big punt return.
51:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Like that was all him, and it was because they had to replace those gunners.
51:23
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's like,
51:24
[SPEAKER_02]: He was putting a tough spot.
51:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what you can really do because it's like at the same time If LeFloore allows him to use like Xavier McKinney or someone out there as a gunner and if he gets hurt People are gonna be like what the fuck are you doing so it's like I'm not quite sure what the fix is there But it's also like we've given we've we have more special teamers on this roster than we've had in the last 10 years, but they but they're all hurt
51:49
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm just saying like we had we've given him more and we've never been impressed.
51:54
[SPEAKER_02]: I've been impressed with the coverage units.
51:56
[SPEAKER_02]: The coverage units have we're really good this year until we needed a most and then they were bad, but that's like the most important thing in special things.
52:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Unsadder terrible terrible again if Bob Milton and that's what kind of sucks two and it gets until like a bigger thing because it's like Like if Bob Milton was healthy in this game I think we win, you know because we those two big punter turns don't happen But then at the same time if Bob Milton's in this game Does he get snaps over Matthew Golden and then we don't have one of those big chunk plays that he gave us because Matt will floor and stand out Just keep putting Bob Milton out there.
52:31
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's it's tough for me to decide what
52:34
[SPEAKER_02]: what actually would have happened.
52:35
[SPEAKER_04]: Here's, here's the problem.
52:37
[SPEAKER_04]: It's, you got, so Matt LaFlor, we all know, doesn't have like a ton of, uh, well, with a, the, the gravitas.
52:46
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
52:46
[SPEAKER_04]: Like he's not like,
52:48
[SPEAKER_04]: He's not Dan Campbell, right?
52:51
[SPEAKER_04]: We're Ritsbasachia kind of steals the gravitas a little bit.
52:56
[SPEAKER_04]: He absorbs it from everyone around him.
52:59
[SPEAKER_04]: This is maybe pumping Ritsch up a little bit too much.
53:01
[SPEAKER_04]: Agreed, but Ritsch just takes away from Matt.
53:04
[SPEAKER_04]: He makes Matt look like more of a pussy.
53:07
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so that's actually the problem.
53:09
[SPEAKER_04]: So we need to fire rich if we keep Matt.
53:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, and I wouldn't be surprised if we have three new coordinators next year if Matt does come back.
53:18
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not a bad day.
53:19
[SPEAKER_02]: It would be funny if Matt's like, hey, you know, it's special teams weren't well, but three new coordinators.
53:23
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll take two new coordinators.
53:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Please sure, but you know,
53:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Matt even said at the Monday presser that he expects halfway to be a head coach next year.
53:33
[SPEAKER_02]: You mentioned it too.
53:34
[SPEAKER_02]: So fucking sucks.
53:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Kishon.
53:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, we'll talk about that later too.
53:37
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm I mean 25 points in the fourth quarter.
53:39
[SPEAKER_02]: This is some other things too.
53:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Kishon is glad to see him back on her turns.
53:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Josh Jacobs back there.
53:46
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of people were pissed about this.
53:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I was absolutely fine with Josh Jacobs, I obviously like again, it's not like Rich said and go out and fumble the ball because that's bad but he might have but he did return it to the 45 which has got to be one of the best kick returns we've had all year.
54:04
[SPEAKER_02]: People are like in El Michael said he's never returned to kick in the NFL which is true.
54:09
[SPEAKER_02]: But he was a really good returner at Alabama, which I had no idea.
54:13
[SPEAKER_02]: He did have a kick return touchdown and a punt return touchdown at Alabama.
54:18
[SPEAKER_02]: So he was pretty good at it.
54:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And I guess on the sideline, he went up to Matt and was like, hey, let me return a kick.
54:23
[SPEAKER_02]: So then he did fumbled.
54:25
[SPEAKER_02]: And then he fumbled.
54:26
[SPEAKER_02]: But it was still a net positive.
54:28
[SPEAKER_02]: But Kitadol Adapo was there.
54:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he made up for his previous mistake by not containing on the punt.
54:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't know.
54:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Still don't like rich, but I don't know.
54:39
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm giving him some benefit of the doubt in here by feeling graceful.
54:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah That's it for the game.
54:46
[SPEAKER_02]: You have anything else you want to talk about about that fucking stupid asking Yeah, dumb game Stupid game A lot of dumb games here, so and the year five Five and a row And bad what that we will have take news
55:08
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, taking news for the week, you know, we talked about a little bit at the beginning, but obviously it's the number one thing going around Packerland right now.
55:20
[SPEAKER_02]: What should we do with Matt LaFlor?
55:22
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a part of the day of the game in the morning, which we should have known was going to be some type of jinx.
55:26
[SPEAKER_02]: It was being reported that the Packers and Matt LaFlor had preliminary talks but an extension.
55:33
[SPEAKER_02]: People were saying too that the outcome of the day of the game wasn't going to matter.
55:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Things then change pretty quickly after a total collapse in the fourth quarter.
55:42
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of guys on the beat, highly respected Silverstein, Bill Huber, both said that it's time to move on.
55:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Wilde said that night that he's not sure how LeFork comes back from this.
55:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Silverstein and Wilde have both came off of that a little bit.
55:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess Todd, what would you do with Matt LaFlor, reminder he has one year left on his deal, coaches never go into a year, on last year of their contract unless you're making McCarthy and Jerry Jones, so that's very rare for that to ever happen, but
56:18
[SPEAKER_02]: you know if he gets paid you know if he got fired he'd be like the top candidate out there if he gets paid he's probably getting something like 15 million a year is what he's going to be asking for when right now he's probably getting eight or nine probably so Todd what would you do with Matt LaFlor I that's a tough one I I've been thinking about this obviously a lot lately I
56:41
[SPEAKER_04]: kind of growing closer and closer to fire, Matt LaFloore.
56:46
[SPEAKER_04]: And here's the reason for me.
56:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Most people, it's like the opposite.
56:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Most people were like fire, and then they're like, mmm, I haven't heard many people go on the show.
56:54
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm going to kept them and then they're like, ah, no, I'd fire them right away.
56:57
[SPEAKER_04]: I was like, that's an overreaction.
56:59
[SPEAKER_04]: But then I think about it more and more and I'm like, you kind of reach this point where it's like, okay, if you're always just good enough to not get fired, but never great, like that's almost worse, like I'm just saying like how your team support like if your teams are always like one and done in the playoffs.
57:18
[SPEAKER_04]: you're just good enough to like be a good coach, but never take your team to the Super Bowl.
57:24
[SPEAKER_04]: Like we need this, why I'm worried about this team is like, obviously the window where I'll worried about this window, contract, money's in a tough spot, but like we're, this window is gonna close in a couple years.
57:38
[SPEAKER_04]: It seems like financially, right?
57:40
[SPEAKER_04]: Like it's gonna be, we're in a, this is a small period of time where we have an opportunity.
57:45
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, and I just am like, does Matt have what it takes to take us to a Super Bowl and these collapses, these implosions, these, we're like, I feel like there's a lack of accountability.
58:00
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
58:02
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, that's where I'm at, as I just feel like if you got somebody else in there, at least you'd have a chance.
58:07
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, maybe we'd be worse.
58:08
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a chance we'd be worse.
58:11
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, but I just feel like Jordan love is a little bit being handcuffed, and I feel like I want to see him open it up.
58:20
[SPEAKER_04]: So my thought as of right now, which this, this isn't going to happen, right?
58:25
[SPEAKER_04]: But it's like keep halfway.
58:27
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
58:28
[SPEAKER_04]: And then it's fine.
58:30
[SPEAKER_04]: And OC that runs a similar offense.
58:34
[SPEAKER_04]: What do you mean keep halfway as head coach as head coach promote half halfway to head coach yeah I mean I would I bet that there's a lot of options like you could take harbors What's Tom and doing what do we know it sounds like he's gonna do TV.
58:50
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh Okay
58:52
[SPEAKER_02]: So he's not coaching, probably not.
58:54
[SPEAKER_02]: And I mean, so the big names out there are John Harba, like you mentioned, obviously Jeff Halfley, Brian Flores, McDaniel from the Dolphins, Kubiak, from the Seahawk.
59:07
[SPEAKER_02]: So they're O.C.
59:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Mike Tomley, is that Gary's kid?
59:11
[SPEAKER_02]: I think so, I assume Kubiak.
59:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and then the other name that I wrote down, which, probably as the least amount, but I would have him high on my list would be Mike McCarthy.
59:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Could you imagine if you run it back with Mike McCarthy?
59:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I know I'm in like the 1% properly, but I'm like,
59:30
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not, I'm not, first of all, I'll say this, I don't, I don't want to move on from Matt LaFlorer.
59:37
[SPEAKER_02]: But these names, one of the reasons why is because there's no one out there that I think is much better.
59:43
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, so the way I'm looking at it, again, I would keep Matt LaFlorer.
59:47
[SPEAKER_02]: What I would probably do if I was at policy is I would see if I can get him back with nothing.
59:55
[SPEAKER_02]: have him play out the last year of his deal.
59:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe halfway through the year if things look good, give him some type of extension.
1:00:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe, you know, you go to the end of the year and if things go good, he gets a big deal.
1:00:06
[SPEAKER_02]: That's fine.
1:00:06
[SPEAKER_02]: You're paying for someone who earned it.
1:00:08
[SPEAKER_02]: But if it doesn't go well, then whatever he's gone, I just think like you were saying with the window, you know, especially next year with Parsons and it's that 20, 23, whatever draft class.
1:00:21
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want
1:00:25
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to bring in a new offensive system, potentially a new defensive system, you know, whatever with special teams.
1:00:33
[SPEAKER_02]: In a year where you really want to go after and win the Super Bowl, which is probably going to be your best shot over the next three years or so.
1:00:39
[SPEAKER_02]: So, and it's weird because at the same time, you know, after the Panthers game, after the Eagles game,
1:00:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I legit said, it feels like, and if it happens, I want them gone, but it feels like we're going to make the playoffs, and then we'll lose in some way, some game mismanagement, or some type of heartbreak, whatever, and that's exactly what happened.
1:00:59
[SPEAKER_02]: But again, at the end of the day, it's like,
1:01:02
[SPEAKER_02]: It was the time-outs I guess with him.
1:01:04
[SPEAKER_02]: There was a couple of things his play calling could have been better.
1:01:07
[SPEAKER_02]: But I don't think a ton of this is on him.
1:01:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, what do you think of this?
1:01:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Man, this makes his kicks, you know.
1:01:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but I have this conversation.
1:01:16
[SPEAKER_04]: Look at what the defense and the offense in the fourth quarter.
1:01:18
[SPEAKER_04]: That's an implosion.
1:01:20
[SPEAKER_02]: But it was mostly the defense, you know.
1:01:23
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, one of the top guys were talking about here to replace him, the guy that you said you would replace him with, which I probably would too, is Jeff Haffley.
1:01:32
[SPEAKER_04]: He's just a better, he just seems like, I don't know, what I don't buy into is like, even when I watch Matt in post games.
1:01:42
[SPEAKER_04]: He's like nodding.
1:01:43
[SPEAKER_04]: He's not a good talking.
1:01:44
[SPEAKER_04]: It's not motivational, right?
1:01:46
[SPEAKER_04]: And I don't know, I think that matters.
1:01:50
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know like what it's like a tangible amount.
1:01:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Like I don't know what you put on it as like a tangible amount, like how much does this matter?
1:01:56
[SPEAKER_04]: I have no idea.
1:01:58
[SPEAKER_04]: But I'm like, I think it matters.
1:02:00
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, I think Dan Campbell teams outperform what their roster looks like.
1:02:04
[SPEAKER_04]: Just for an example, sure.
1:02:06
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think what we've seen is Matt LaFluer teams underperform the roster build.
1:02:12
[SPEAKER_04]: And so it's like, that really matters.
1:02:16
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm like, if Jeff is leading the team, like, there's due to X's and O's matter as much as we all think they do.
1:02:24
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, is there guys out there that you could put in coordinator positions?
1:02:27
[SPEAKER_04]: where it's just like, Jeff's the dude that's leading the team.
1:02:30
[SPEAKER_04]: Because like, aside from lately, like certain guys like Campbell variable, like those guys don't do, they don't seemingly do as much on like game day, right?
1:02:42
[SPEAKER_04]: Like they're typically not like calling plays or just like making big decisions and they're letting their coordinators do the job.
1:02:50
[SPEAKER_04]: Just like, is that an option?
1:02:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Is that?
1:02:53
[SPEAKER_04]: Is that kind of like the the template for how you go and develop like a discipline team?
1:02:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
1:03:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and that's so one thing that Jason will do throughout there is what of Matt stays on.
1:03:06
[SPEAKER_02]: He gives up play calling, which I would be shocked.
1:03:08
[SPEAKER_02]: He said in the past that he'd think about it more recently.
1:03:11
[SPEAKER_02]: He said he wouldn't do it, but who knows?
1:03:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Now that this happened.
1:03:15
[SPEAKER_02]: And will he brought up McDaniel and his buddy Rahim Morris, who's close with two,
1:03:22
[SPEAKER_02]: and what will he's but he's with those were him on those teams.
1:03:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I have no with the skins back in the day.
1:03:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I couldn't tell ya, but they've worked together in the past.
1:03:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And what Willie had mentioned and I forgot what the story is, but McDaniel has credit LaFlor for saving his career because he gave him a job with no one else wood in the NFL early on.
1:03:42
[SPEAKER_02]: So he's like maybe he would come in if he can call plays and then LaFlor could be more of a game manager.
1:03:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Which is obviously something that we've struggled with and that's kind of the thing to where it's like and people have said we're well Floor is really good Coming up with concepts and plays, but I don't know if the flow of his play calling is always the best at times So maybe that would be good He seems like a kind of like a bit of a genius unlike
1:04:09
[SPEAKER_04]: play construction?
1:04:11
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, like do's are open, but like his, his play calling kind of sucks at times.
1:04:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, when it's cold, it's cold, when it's hot, it's hot.
1:04:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:04:21
[SPEAKER_02]: And then again, like you were talking about with like, um, Dan Campbell and even when guys are hurt a lot and example people are pointing to this years.
1:04:28
[SPEAKER_02]: The Niners and how they won in the playoffs when they've been super banged up, um, they were they also won five games last year when they were banged up.
1:04:36
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's like, yeah, it worked this year, but it's not always the case.
1:04:40
[SPEAKER_02]: And obviously, people have talked about this with the Packers, but again, it's like, so these are guys who are injured
1:04:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, this is varying degrees of talent and usefulness for the team.
1:04:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Michael Parsons, Tucker Craf, Devonto Wyatt, Elton Jenkins, Nate Hobbs, Lloyd, Zayne Anderson, John Fitzpatrick, Kamal Hayden, Bow Melton, Jordan Riley, Savion Williams.
1:05:09
[SPEAKER_02]: So those are just the guys on the IR.
1:05:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Other guys who have you imagined those in Kamal Hayden.
1:05:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Other guys who have been hurt, yeah, I probably didn't have to throw his name in there.
1:05:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Keep riding.
1:05:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Guys who have been hurt either at the beginning of the year or have we've had a few games missed out of them.
1:05:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Josh Jacobs, Christian Watson, Zach Tom, Dantavian Wix, LVN, Jaden Reed, Nick Nyman, Brandemic Manis, Matthew Golden, Brenton Cox, Edron Cooper here at the end, and then Aaron Banks was being dumped like all year.
1:05:41
[SPEAKER_02]: And those are like a lot of talented players.
1:05:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously in difference.
1:05:45
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of dollars in those guys.
1:05:47
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of dollars in those guys too.
1:05:48
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's like
1:05:49
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to, I'm not the biggest Matt LaFlor fan, like I, big, you know, I'm a Mike McCarthy guy.
1:05:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Mike McCarthy, it was time for him to go, you know, when we got rid of them.
1:06:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I wouldn't have fired him in season, but that was the year to move on.
1:06:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Not a big Matt LaFlor guy.
1:06:06
[SPEAKER_02]: I would still, I, I just think it would be a mistake to move on from him right now again with how the season went with the injuries and then you've just got to push them and I'm
1:06:20
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, here's my thing.
1:06:22
[SPEAKER_04]: If he stays, which he probably will stay.
1:06:24
[SPEAKER_04]: He's not going anywhere.
1:06:25
[SPEAKER_04]: He's going to get.
1:06:26
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I think he's going to get an extension.
1:06:28
[SPEAKER_02]: The other risk we run is he might get an extension by the or fired by the time this podcast comes out Wednesday morning.
1:06:35
[SPEAKER_04]: You think that quick.
1:06:36
[SPEAKER_02]: He maybe.
1:06:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Domowski was saying that a decision should happen Tuesday or Wednesday.
1:06:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Quickly.
1:06:41
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
1:06:41
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
1:06:41
[SPEAKER_04]: That's fair.
1:06:43
[SPEAKER_04]: I think he gets extended.
1:06:45
[SPEAKER_04]: I think
1:06:47
[SPEAKER_04]: if he gets extended i think there has to be big changes on the coaching staff like it's you got to move some pieces around to make us more competitive i don't know we talked about offensive line we talked about some other you know coaching positions but it's like
1:07:02
[SPEAKER_04]: Dude like and also maybe it is fair to be like give up play color and like he's such a genius when it comes to it Seemingly like the play construction give someone also shot like it's worth a try Because we're just so You get to points in the game and we've never put a full game together where we can just put somebody out It's always we let them linger around too long and so like maybe that's the play calling Maybe he's not aggressive enough.
1:07:28
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe he's
1:07:29
[SPEAKER_04]: maybe they're just the flow of the game he can't sense.
1:07:32
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
1:07:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Back to the coaching staff, like we were talking a little bit there, Justice Miscita put out a really, really good article that you should read to, where he's talking about, you know, he's like, if Matt comes back, Matt doesn't come back, Packers need to change what they do with how they pay coaches, with how they pay their system coaches and their coordinators.
1:07:52
[SPEAKER_02]: So, I've talked about I talked a lot about, you know, Jason Ravel back in the day, mostly now here with Ryan Mahafi, the wide receiver coach, the offensive line coach is a very good justice put together a list, you know, he's looked, he did all the playoff teams.
1:08:10
[SPEAKER_02]: So, this is coordinators, position coaches in senior assistants.
1:08:21
[SPEAKER_02]: So these are the playoff teams.
1:08:24
[SPEAKER_02]: The team with the most years experience is the Seattle Seahawks with 129 years.
1:08:30
[SPEAKER_02]: The Packers are last of all the playoff teams with 47 years, which I don't know if you're good at math or not, but that is less than less than half.
1:08:42
[SPEAKER_02]: It's far less than the average too.
1:08:45
[SPEAKER_02]: And then again, if it's just position coaches, not the coordinators, just the position coaches, Seahawks again lead with 119 years experience.
1:08:56
[SPEAKER_02]: The Packers have 21 years experience from their position coaches, coaching in the NFL outside of their time and green Bay.
1:09:04
[SPEAKER_02]: So again, it's like, and I think that kind of plays into the whole mentality thing too.
1:09:08
[SPEAKER_02]: We've talked about it mostly like 2023.
1:09:11
[SPEAKER_02]: how it's like there isn't veterans, there aren't veterans on this roster, you know, now the most veteran guys are the ones who are coming up for their contract years, you know, they've been in the league for four years.
1:09:22
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like if you don't have that type of real great veteran leadership on your team and you have these moments happen, it's like you need someone to kind of set the boat straight, get shit together.
1:09:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you don't have that, you need to have
1:09:36
[SPEAKER_02]: either veteran coaches or former players or coaches, you know, that can set shit, right?
1:09:42
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like we don't have either.
1:09:43
[SPEAKER_02]: The other thing that I thought about that I hadn't and kind of goes with this is Jeff Halfley.
1:09:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, Halfley, you know, we think he's a raw raw guy and all that.
1:09:52
[SPEAKER_02]: He's great with the media.
1:09:53
[SPEAKER_02]: He seems to be motivational, blah, blah, blah.
1:09:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Good teacher.
1:09:56
[SPEAKER_02]: But the guys up in the booth, you know what I mean?
1:09:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I wonder if there's some more calmness or better, I don't know, management on the sidelines, if Jeff Hathley is down there with Matt, with the defense, especially on the fourth quarter, when she's fallen apart.
1:10:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, you can't really talk to the guys and motivate them or not, like motivations, the only thing, but you can't really rally the troops through a fucking headset going to Quay's helmet, you know?
1:10:24
[SPEAKER_04]: I just think like if you're if you're a coordinator, I'm totally cool with you being in the box just for the simple fact of like you need to see what's happening to make the call I guess if like you're not calling defensive plays and somebody in the booth if you're the coordinator you delegate defensive play calling but is at a real thing right I don't know I'm always just good with coordinators being in the booth.
1:10:50
[SPEAKER_04]: I usually am dead it, but it falls back on the head coach needs to be the motivator.
1:10:56
[SPEAKER_04]: The head coach needs to be the motivator, not the defensive coordinator, or the offensive coordinator.
1:11:02
[SPEAKER_04]: It needs to be that coach.
1:11:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I think he could ask why it works.
1:11:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I think he could be better, but we will talk about that here with the next part of Tick News.
1:11:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Tick News slash.
1:11:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, can I give you a quick update?
1:11:12
[UNKNOWN]: Sure.
1:11:13
[SPEAKER_04]: Uh, Raheem worked with Matt LaFour in for 2012 and 2013 with the skins and then again for 2015, 2016 with the Falcons.
1:11:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
1:11:28
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's they work together for a couple of years.
1:11:30
[SPEAKER_04]: So Raheem Morrison.
1:11:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
1:11:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
1:11:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Next part of tick news slash, hey, we're stealing your content, which is what I used to add to it.
1:11:39
[SPEAKER_02]: And we do this.
1:11:40
[SPEAKER_02]: This is from the Packers News podcast with Tom Silverstein and Ryan Wood, both who write for PackersNews.com slash with the journal Sentinel.
1:11:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I, again, I mean, you'll, you'll, maybe you're kind of a more, whatever type of fan like Ryan Wood, if you're listening, but this is Ryan Wood and Tom Silverstein talking
1:12:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Metal Fluor and Jeff Heffler are the same guy.
1:12:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the problem I have with that is Metal Fluor and Jeff Heffler are the same guy.
1:12:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Jeff Heffler will be the same kind of coach that Metal Fluor is.
1:12:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So maybe your defensive guy and your special teams guy have to be the hard asses who are
1:12:19
[SPEAKER_01]: setting the tone, setting the culture for the team, because you know how good defensive and good special teams are.
1:12:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they're bad, you know, they get people, they play at a level, you know, bank a person's and self raised the level of intensity throughout the entire defense.
1:12:39
[SPEAKER_01]: You need a coach to help.
1:12:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's great to have like a person's doing that, but it all kind of went down a little bit after he went home.
1:12:45
[SPEAKER_01]: My problem with that is you don't need a coach to do that.
1:12:47
[SPEAKER_01]: That has to come from the head coach.
1:12:49
[SPEAKER_01]: If your head coach isn't a hard ass, your team's not going to be a hard ass.
1:12:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
1:12:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I think if your head coach is like,
1:12:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think a Kyle Shanahan is like a hard-ass, you know, but his team's played pretty physical, his offense is pretty physical, he's got physical players, he's got Robert Sawyer, you know, they play physical to the front, they're a great team this year, but when they were really good, they were physical.
1:13:09
[SPEAKER_01]: That's also a team though that they've had their share of big game playouts.
1:13:14
[SPEAKER_01]: They have, they have, but they've at least made it to the Super Bowl and they're competitive and they have tons of injuries and they manage to be competitive.
1:13:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, my point is that maybe you can't get away with Matt Flores thing as I coach if you put the right people around So Todd, do the Packers need a hard ass head coach or can they get away with coordinators being hard asses?
1:13:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Also is being a hard ass important.
1:13:40
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm like struggling to find like what hard ass versus just like a good motivator like his hard ass is just being like Like who do they think is a hard ass damn camel I would have threw but Dan camel's not a hard ass Dan camel soft he's a he's a prize at every person.
1:13:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I think people would just but that he's a good motivator I mean, that's what they're going for too.
1:14:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I it is kind of a little trick because I think Kyle Shanahan is kind of a hard ass a little bit like but
1:14:06
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, Tom there also says that LaFlor and Hathley are pretty similar and I don't think he's completely wrong.
1:14:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, I think Hathley's a better speaker, probably like we're saying a little bit better of a motivator, but that's kind of where we're chasing our tail with motivator for his hard to us.
1:14:23
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think hard S is a run word.
1:14:25
[SPEAKER_04]: I think you want to motivate her and I think that the floor isn't a motivator.
1:14:29
[SPEAKER_04]: I think I agree that your head coach should be a motivator.
1:14:33
[SPEAKER_04]: But I don't think you need to be six, four, two hundred and fifty pounds to be a motivator.
1:14:38
[SPEAKER_04]: I feel like those are the guys that get like this hard ass label and it's like what Kyle does.
1:14:42
[SPEAKER_04]: What Kyle Shanahan does is more than enough to be a motivator.
1:14:46
[SPEAKER_04]: Like I feel like he holds people accountable.
1:14:48
[SPEAKER_04]: He doesn't, he doesn't beat around the bush.
1:14:50
[SPEAKER_04]: He's going straight to the point.
1:14:52
[SPEAKER_04]: And like his guys respect him.
1:14:55
[SPEAKER_04]: Same for damn Campbell.
1:14:57
[SPEAKER_04]: I just, I, what, with what they were talking about, I struggle with like what's a motivator, what's a hard ass.
1:15:03
[SPEAKER_04]: I agree with the motivator term for the head coach.
1:15:06
[SPEAKER_04]: I think that that is important.
1:15:08
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think you want your coordinators to be the motivators.
1:15:16
[SPEAKER_04]: that they are in the exesinos because they're typically calling the plays for one passive of your offense.
1:15:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure, but I mean, I think you need some type of leadership, some type of hard assory in some phase of your football team.
1:15:31
[SPEAKER_02]: If it's the head coach, 100% if it's your coordinators, if it's your players.
1:15:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And right now, it doesn't seem like the packers really have a
1:15:39
[SPEAKER_02]: a decent amount of that at any one of those levels.
1:15:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I look to it like Super Bowl winning coaches.
1:15:45
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a list of the most recent without repeating Nick Seriani.
1:15:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Not, not I mean, he's he's weird.
1:15:53
[SPEAKER_02]: He gets pissed off and stuff, but I don't think he's a hard ass.
1:15:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Andy Reed, Sean McVay, Bruce Erriens, Bill Bellachek and Billachek is kind of a weird one too, because I don't think he's really a motivator.
1:16:03
[SPEAKER_02]: He is just kind of a hard ass.
1:16:04
[SPEAKER_02]: But he's a hard ass.
1:16:06
[SPEAKER_02]: But he's a hard ass.
1:16:08
[SPEAKER_02]: But he's one of
1:16:09
[SPEAKER_04]: But I would also say like Shanahan is in that group of like he's a hard ass.
1:16:14
[SPEAKER_04]: Like he doesn't.
1:16:16
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah I don't know it's I feel like we're talking about it's a little bit semantics here What you need is you need somebody to hold people accountable and that's what the head coaches job is is to hold Everybody in the organization underneath them accountable the players the coaches
1:16:34
[SPEAKER_04]: The trainers, whoever, I don't know what, what all falls under their jurisdiction, but like everybody has to be held accountable.
1:16:40
[SPEAKER_04]: I feel like that's where we lack.
1:16:42
[SPEAKER_04]: I feel like Matt doesn't necessarily hold people accountable in my opinion.
1:16:47
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if I think he might keep players accountable, more so than other things, but I don't think he keeps his coaching staff accountable.
1:16:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, just like he's fired next to no one, we always talk about how he doesn't want to fire anyone to confirm with a fire Joe Barry.
1:17:02
[SPEAKER_02]: He promotes from within all the time, you know, that's not that's not good.
1:17:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Hopefully we can change that.
1:17:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Another part of justice is pieces how we need a pony up and actually play pay assistant coaches as well.
1:17:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, because we've, you know, because you think too, and it's like, why are some of these guys sticking around because we're seeing a lot of these dumb coaching decisions towards like the offensive line as it's set right now probably should have happened sooner, you know, maybe well like why wasn't Sean Ryan being tested at center for how much you try everyone else at every other position, why did it take so long for Jordan Morgan to actually play tackle.
1:17:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Why did it take so long for Belton to play right guard?
1:17:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Why was Matthew Golden not getting more snaps during the season?
1:17:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Why was Tucker Crafft not more part of the offense early on?
1:17:49
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's like, I think you need to actually like, and on top of that too, like Jeff, not Jeff.
1:17:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Half Lee is back with the staff, Luke Getsy is back with the staff, it's like, why are you just retreading guys who have failed out elsewhere and they don't seem to be a positive impact for your team either.
1:18:10
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's just, again, I guess we're getting a little off-track here.
1:18:14
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it is one of Matt Lufler's biggest detriment is the lacking of motivation, lacking and being a hard ass.
1:18:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I'd even like the way he handled the hand shake from Ben Johnson at the end.
1:18:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I know I was really douchey from Benjus, but the way he like just kind of followed him after it's like, you got to ignore it and just keep running walking straight there Matt.
1:18:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it looked like he wanted to follow up, he was going to follow him or something and it's like that's just, I thought that was kind of dumb, but, um, yeah, I don't know.
1:18:39
[SPEAKER_02]: I would like it to be better, but I don't want to fire Matt LaFlor this year because he's not a hard to ask.
1:18:47
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I, whatever.
1:18:48
[SPEAKER_04]: I, the, the being a hard ass thing like I don't need you to be,
1:18:53
[SPEAKER_04]: a douche bag about it.
1:18:54
[SPEAKER_04]: I need to hold people accountable.
1:18:56
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
1:18:56
[SPEAKER_04]: That's absolutely.
1:18:58
[SPEAKER_02]: The other thing last thing we'll touch on before we start getting out of here is halfway a big loss.
1:19:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, he's probably going to be gone.
1:19:07
[SPEAKER_03]: I think.
1:19:07
[SPEAKER_02]: And obviously, I love Jeff halfway.
1:19:10
[SPEAKER_02]: However,
1:19:13
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm in again 25 points in the fourth quarter.
1:19:15
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm posted this.
1:19:17
[SPEAKER_02]: It was linked to one of Justice mosquitoes.
1:19:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Articles got a key.
1:19:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't even drop him way too much.
1:19:22
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's a post from Blue Sky, which I'd never been on before I click this linking out there.
1:19:27
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm posted.
1:19:28
[SPEAKER_02]: So this is Jeff Hathley this year.
1:19:32
[SPEAKER_02]: First, what is blue skin?
1:19:34
[SPEAKER_02]: It's another social media.
1:19:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, this is first half stats versus second half stats, okay?
1:19:42
[SPEAKER_02]: First half, then we pack our defense this year was fifth in yards per drive.
1:19:47
[SPEAKER_02]: first and points per drive and third and first downs per drive.
1:19:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Basically, everything else, but sacrate and third down short and third and short conversion percentage were like top 10.
1:19:59
[SPEAKER_02]: So all very, very good except for those two things.
1:20:02
[SPEAKER_02]: In second half, second halves.
1:20:05
[SPEAKER_02]: We were 29th in yards per drive, 20 31st in points per drive and 30 second and first downs per drive.
1:20:14
[SPEAKER_02]: And we saw it a lot at the end of the year and half they got a big pass and it's like I still think he will be some type of loss But I'll be without Micah, but this is including Micah 2 It's like we weren't able to seal deals at the end of these games and Maybe it's because our defensive line was out of shape Maybe we didn't have good defensive tackles and those are the guys who get worn out most during games
1:20:37
[SPEAKER_02]: But I just thought this was, you know, a little something to ponder before we probably lose Jeff Hathley.
1:20:45
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I don't know.
1:20:46
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I think if you're gonna make the argument of injuries for Matt, you gotta make the argument for injuries for like what happened at the end of the season.
1:20:57
[SPEAKER_04]: I get that that stat comparison was first half and second half of games.
1:21:02
[SPEAKER_04]: But like at the same time, like we had a lead and double digit lead in a lot of those games.
1:21:09
[SPEAKER_04]: And like you're essentially just playing pre-vent at that point.
1:21:12
[SPEAKER_04]: So I don't know
1:21:14
[SPEAKER_04]: It's hard.
1:21:15
[SPEAKER_04]: You kind of look at it like a game by game basis.
1:21:18
[SPEAKER_04]: In that sense, so it's hard for me.
1:21:21
[SPEAKER_04]: I think the loss of halfway is big.
1:21:25
[SPEAKER_04]: I think you can't understand what he brought the defense definitely changed what he got here.
1:21:31
[SPEAKER_04]: The defense got better, like certain key players essentially like especially to like got better.
1:21:37
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think there's a lot that we're gonna be missing when he leaves.
1:21:41
[SPEAKER_02]: I would say, you know, we can't get on that before for not stepping on the gas and finishing teams off and then also say, well, Jeff Hathleys playing pre-vent defense and second halves of games.
1:21:53
[SPEAKER_04]: What if it's under the, what does, it's under Matt's order, like, hey, let's, let's drop back and play pre-vent.
1:21:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, stop being aggressive.
1:22:00
[SPEAKER_02]: I would like to know, he's the one who would like to know how involved he is with that.
1:22:04
[SPEAKER_02]: But I would think he 100% that you'll never know.
1:22:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
1:22:07
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, the big thing here, too, is you're saying it's a big loss.
1:22:10
[SPEAKER_02]: The biggest thing that we'll see out of Ed policy is what he allows whoever to pay for their staff.
1:22:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Because if we go, you know, we talked about a couple of weeks ago, how sure.
1:22:21
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is before the big collapse that after the season, it would probably be a promotion
1:22:28
[SPEAKER_02]: is an Aubrey who, however, the defensive back coach is to DC, maybe we do go out of building to hire defensive coordinator and head policy law.
1:22:38
[SPEAKER_02]: So like that's my biggest hope kind of this offseason.
1:22:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, if we do lose Jeff Hathley.
1:22:44
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's fair.
1:22:45
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
1:22:46
[SPEAKER_04]: I haven't even paid attention to who's out there for DCs.
1:22:48
[SPEAKER_04]: So that'll be interesting if that's what happens.
1:22:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's it.
1:22:52
[SPEAKER_02]: That's all I really have to talk about.
1:22:54
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll have the 50 second pick in fucking April for the draft April right not March.
1:22:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, April I believe so get ready for that.
1:23:01
[SPEAKER_02]: We do have all of our picks besides the first round pick.
1:23:05
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we have three seventh round picks cap space who knows.
1:23:08
[SPEAKER_02]: We got to see who we're going to cut yada yada.
1:23:11
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll talk about it when we get there.
1:23:13
[SPEAKER_04]: The roster management in this next couple of mods will be interesting.
1:23:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, come March.
1:23:18
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm curious to see who we're going to cut and I mean, just have a change in systems and shit.
1:23:22
[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know.
1:23:23
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll see.
1:23:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, reminder, leave a five-star review if you want on Spotify or Apple.
1:23:29
[SPEAKER_02]: That would be cool.
1:23:31
[SPEAKER_02]: We do have two comments this week.
1:23:34
[SPEAKER_02]: This one is from Matt.
1:23:36
[SPEAKER_02]: My beloved Charlton Athletic, my beloved Charlton Athletic lost five to one to Chelsea.
1:23:42
[SPEAKER_02]: My New York Rangers lost ten to two.
1:23:44
[SPEAKER_02]: The groomy packers threw a fucking fifteen point lead in the fourth quarter.
1:23:48
[SPEAKER_02]: My life would be a lot easier if I didn't like sport.
1:23:51
[SPEAKER_02]: And from so much more boring true.
1:23:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, unfortunately.
1:23:58
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a thing like even watching the game known it's do or die and like We didn't even talk about this when they when the beers score that touched down to go up late.
1:24:07
[SPEAKER_02]: I I wasn't happy, but I was like, okay, I would prefer this.
1:24:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I would like to get the ball back Rather than going to OT or they score with no time left, and we have no chance of doing anything
1:24:20
[SPEAKER_04]: I think that's PTSD from like all those years of like Rogers getting screwed out of not getting the ball in his hands again like not getting a chance to answer.
1:24:29
[SPEAKER_04]: I felt the same way.
1:24:30
[SPEAKER_04]: I was like like not that you want them to score.
1:24:33
[SPEAKER_04]: You don't want them to score.
1:24:34
[SPEAKER_04]: You want to pick the ball off.
1:24:35
[SPEAKER_04]: You want to do something like that and just get the ball back.
1:24:37
[SPEAKER_04]: But like they score.
1:24:38
[SPEAKER_04]: You're like, all right, we got two minutes.
1:24:39
[SPEAKER_04]: It's on us.
1:24:41
[SPEAKER_04]: Like that's I like that feeling so much more than like
1:24:45
[SPEAKER_04]: waiting again.
1:24:47
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's probably PTSD from the historically soft defenses we've had throughout the years.
1:24:53
[SPEAKER_04]: But like when they have the ball, and there's a minute, 20 left, I'm like, fuck.
1:24:58
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'm like, where?
1:24:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I'd much rather go out this.
1:25:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I was worried that Jordan was going to get that last pass off either, which also would have really, really, so yeah, but I'm 100.
1:25:07
[SPEAKER_04]: So if you I'd rather have the ball in our hands and we screw it up, then just have our defense fail.
1:25:14
[SPEAKER_02]: And if we catch the ball of that last drive, we probably probably win that game.
1:25:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Opportunities.
1:25:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Another comment from Logan.
1:25:22
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm most of the time coming after game and then a few days later, I delete said, oh, wow, I read his first comment.
1:25:30
[SPEAKER_02]: And he did delete it and put up a new one.
1:25:32
[SPEAKER_02]: It's funny because they were both from two days ago.
1:25:34
[SPEAKER_02]: And he deleted the previous one.
1:25:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is now from four hours ago.
1:25:38
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's pretty funny.
1:25:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I'm pretty sure he said he wants Matt fires.
1:25:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's see if he changed his mind.
1:25:44
[SPEAKER_02]: So most of the time, most of the time comment after a game, then a few days later, I just leaked said comment after having some time to think about it about the game.
1:25:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I've heard the season sometimes you guys get my raw reaction, but after the bear's game, I'm just not even surprised anymore.
1:26:00
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm numb to it, even up 21, 3.
1:26:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I had a gut feeling we were going to lose and come out flat in the second half, which we did.
1:26:06
[SPEAKER_02]: It's getting so hard to defend Matt and his stats like how he's 4 and 11 against playoff teams in the last two years.
1:26:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Also, why can't we have a kicker?
1:26:15
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think he called for Matt to be gone before now, he's a lot more.
1:26:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
1:26:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Not happy with Matt, but I don't think he's calling for his job, but yeah, I mean the kicker, the mat, it's just...
1:26:27
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not the best.
1:26:29
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not the best right now.
1:26:32
[SPEAKER_04]: It's not the best.
1:26:33
[SPEAKER_04]: I think you can make the case one way or another.
1:26:35
[SPEAKER_04]: It'll be really interesting to see.
1:26:39
[SPEAKER_04]: What who's that who's the is Elliott time make that up.
1:26:43
[SPEAKER_04]: Who what's his name?
1:26:45
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, what's our real what's our Rangoon Clinton that was No, yeah, Elliott wolf is it what Elliot wolf decides to do in these next few days and my why are you looking at policy?
1:26:57
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know who you're talking about policy.
1:26:58
[SPEAKER_04]: That's really a wolf is the gym of the patriot I knew that was wrong, but then you said it and then I was like, is that the same?
1:27:04
[SPEAKER_04]: What does Ed policy do in these next couple days is really going to be interesting and I think that like you could go Like where I said is like I could go either way at this point.
1:27:13
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you could fire Matt and I would be okay with it.
1:27:16
[SPEAKER_04]: You could keep him and I would be okay with it Both come with their own little caveats in my own brain But I think man, I just like I'm scared that we just achieve mediocrity
1:27:29
[SPEAKER_04]: That's that's my biggest fear.
1:27:31
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
1:27:32
[SPEAKER_04]: And I don't want to play it safe because that's what Matt does and that's it's weird That's push issue if you don't want to play it if you fire Matt now.
1:27:39
[SPEAKER_02]: It's almost playing it safe too I feel like there's so many fans want him to be gone.
1:27:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't know.
1:27:44
[SPEAKER_02]: It's I feel like that's the risk no matter what it's gonna be I don't I don't know it's we'll see we we don't know you know again if there's a better better candidates out there
1:27:54
[SPEAKER_02]: like maybe maybe he sucks next year.
1:27:56
[SPEAKER_03]: Would you like Harba?
1:27:57
[SPEAKER_03]: Would you know Harba?
1:27:58
[SPEAKER_02]: No, at first I was like maybe Dude Harba was, if you think us choking is bad, Harba was worse.
1:28:05
[SPEAKER_02]: So, and then Tomlin hasn't had a playoff win in nine years.
1:28:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Harba, I don't know.
1:28:10
[SPEAKER_03]: What is that?
1:28:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
1:28:12
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
1:28:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Harba, it's something similar to that too.
1:28:15
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's had a bunch of late game losses.
1:28:18
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it sounds like the rape.
1:28:19
[SPEAKER_02]: He lost the ravens locker room.
1:28:21
[SPEAKER_02]: He also said that he would bring or it's reported that he would need Ted Monkin, the O.C.
1:28:26
[SPEAKER_02]: to come with them.
1:28:26
[SPEAKER_02]: And he would want more say in the front office.
1:28:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, I don't need a fucking coach to come in and be running things like this.
1:28:33
[UNKNOWN]: So
1:28:35
[SPEAKER_04]: Have they the ravens have it won a playoff game in a way?
1:28:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I believe so.
1:28:39
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's what's a stat was.
1:28:40
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah Gosh, I would not have guessed either of those.
1:28:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Sorry.
1:28:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you said the dealers it's nine years the ravens They haven't had much six.
1:28:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, they made it to an ABC championship game not too loud.
1:28:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh like two or three years ago Yeah, but a lot of fourth quarter classes.
1:28:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, whatever And that's it.
1:28:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh Aaron Rogers.
1:29:01
[SPEAKER_02]: You think he's done?
1:29:03
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, gosh, like him throwing a pick six at the end, almost makes me feel a little bit like he's good.
1:29:11
[SPEAKER_04]: So like that's not how he wants to end and he's in good shape.
1:29:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I think especially Tomlin leaving, I think Rogers is done, um, the thing, I, what's his contract?
1:29:23
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a one year, one year like $50 million or something.
1:29:26
[SPEAKER_02]: what the Vikings fans are they don't want them dead set that he's going there no I've seen most say that they don't want them but what I thought uh you know I don't think you were saying his last throw you know was a pick six if he does retire
1:29:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Aaron Rodgers last play is going to be a pick six.
1:29:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Something that he rarely if ever did.
1:29:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Brett Farves last play.
1:29:53
[SPEAKER_02]: He got hurt and wasn't able to play football.
1:29:57
[SPEAKER_02]: The two things that the guys never did, what they were known for never doing, is the way that they probably went out.
1:30:04
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, and Farve's last throw was a pick as well.
1:30:06
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, was it?
1:30:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't even remember if it was a pick and I just remember seeing him laying down on the pressure.
1:30:11
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm pretty sure he threw a pick and that's why he's laying like this.
1:30:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, no, it's because he's sure he got concussed because the the turf out.
1:30:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the goal for his stadium was not heated.
1:30:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that's for God.
1:30:26
[SPEAKER_02]: That's maybe he threw a pick too, but I'm pretty sure maybe you should look it up with that that's the season Um, I don't know when we'll have another episode if we fire Matt LaFloral probably have one next week If not, I mean it just depends on the news.
1:30:43
[SPEAKER_02]: What is it?
1:30:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Interception to Corey Webster.
1:30:46
[SPEAKER_02]: So what's a pick too?
1:30:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, well, I guess I'll just focus on the injury part of that.
1:30:51
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh shit.
1:30:52
[SPEAKER_04]: It says meaningful fuck
1:30:54
[SPEAKER_04]: AI, AI gets me every, it's a liar.
1:30:57
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a, a liar.
1:30:59
[SPEAKER_04]: It says meaningful paths.
1:31:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, yeah, if you're listening, thanks for listening.
1:31:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, this is the seventh year of doing a stupid fucking podcast.
1:31:07
[SPEAKER_02]: I say it every year, but if you told fucking 14 year old, 15 year old Spencer, one day that he'd have, you know, people listening to what him and his buddy talk about with the packers every week.
1:31:17
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think he would believe it.
1:31:18
[SPEAKER_02]: So pretty cool.
1:31:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for listening.
1:31:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, Todd, do you got anything?
1:31:25
[SPEAKER_02]: uh... no thanks for listening it's been a pleasure yeah maybe next year will probably back like tomorrow the fler gets fired we're back so i don't know we'll see what happens this off i see that every fucking year where i'm like i'm gonna try to get packers to come on to talk you know what you know who i i who i want to uh... i'm gonna reach out to talker can we get to talk about the impossible he's too big now his wife did come up on a six on the field a year ago yeah but oh man um...
1:31:53
[SPEAKER_04]: I feel like you could sit down and have a beer with Tucker.
1:31:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, probably.
1:31:58
[SPEAKER_02]: That's after the Niners last was funny.
1:32:00
[SPEAKER_02]: See he posted him sitting on that tailgate with his snowpants on smoke and cigarette.
1:32:05
[SPEAKER_02]: The coolest dude ever.
1:32:07
[SPEAKER_02]: He's my favorite.
1:32:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Guess who I'm going to reach out to.
1:32:09
[SPEAKER_02]: It has to, it's a low, and I'm talking low level player on this team.
1:32:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Who we've talked more about of late.
1:32:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Screaming even?
1:32:19
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
1:32:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Good guess though.
1:32:21
[SPEAKER_04]: More as of late.
1:32:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, pretty much just the last two weeks.
1:32:26
[SPEAKER_02]: And also talked about them at the very end of freeing camp.
1:32:33
[SPEAKER_04]: I What is it?
1:32:35
[SPEAKER_04]: It's why am I blanking?
1:32:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know maybe you're wrong.
1:32:39
[SPEAKER_02]: It's offensive.
1:32:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Nope.
1:32:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Nope.
1:32:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Nope.
1:32:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Not him.
1:32:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Even worse.
1:32:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Brighton Cox.
1:32:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Much worse.
1:32:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I wonder if so.
1:32:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, if you're at home, you can yell out loud.
1:32:50
[SPEAKER_02]: What you think we've talked about the last we've talked of very little about him, but his name has been dropped.
1:32:55
[SPEAKER_02]: This name was dropped today.
1:32:57
[SPEAKER_02]: It was dropped last week and it was dropped at the very end of training camp when we were doing roster predictions.
1:33:02
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm, I don't know, I can't see this myth, I want to, I want to, he's played for like eight different teams.
1:33:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to be like, hey, what was it like running on to the field in the playoffs when you haven't fucking snapped to Jordan love in your life, probably?
1:33:16
[SPEAKER_02]: That's gotta be.
1:33:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm sure he's I mean he's been in the league for like seven years.
1:33:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my I'm curious like what is it like playing for the packers So I don't know I was like five minutes of I was so I'm not guessing correctly.
1:33:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I feel like I'm like damn I got a tune in the listen to what a guy who's probably not gonna be on the roster next You're has to say about the packers, but I don't know.
1:33:34
[SPEAKER_02]: He's probably not gonna be an answer me Yeah, we're gonna try to try probably gonna be kept on red with that
1:33:43
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought you
1:33:52
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
1:33:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe got suggestions.
1:33:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe got questions.
1:33:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe you have a, a really good one.
1:33:56
[SPEAKER_02]: What are you for the partners?
1:33:57
[SPEAKER_04]: Packers to do.
1:33:58
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, don't tell me that.
1:34:00
[SPEAKER_02]: You can comment that.
1:34:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess on Spotify.
1:34:02
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we can, yeah, that's what I'm saying.
1:34:04
[SPEAKER_02]: What is on Spotify?
1:34:04
[SPEAKER_02]: That would be perfect because the next episode will probably talk about what happened with, let's floor in all of it.
1:34:11
[SPEAKER_04]: And yes, and scouts under you cannot delete what you say if you make the comment.
1:34:16
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, capital leave it up.
1:34:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, unless you're Logan.
1:34:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I guess he's the only one that probably does it, um, so I'm going to say anything else.
1:34:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, AJ Dillon, the Packers News put out a story that AJ Dillon's wife put out a post, um, congratulating AJ Dillon on his, uh, playing football this season.
1:34:38
[SPEAKER_04]: Uh, he didn't play very much.
1:34:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Not much at all, uh, with that.
1:34:42
[SPEAKER_02]: AJ Dillon, take us out.
1:34:44
[SPEAKER_04]: Do anybody else?
1:34:45
[SPEAKER_03]: Whatever.
1:34:46
[SPEAKER_03]: You can't do what we're doing.
1:34:47
[SPEAKER_03]: Just just enjoy.
1:34:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Just watch.
1:34:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I worked on you, I worked on you, I worked on you And made it my money when you had to allow it don't care The thing working like me down here
1:35:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I said hey now, baby, I'm gonna leave her down in bed And honey, I ain't leaving here I got a six pack of beer and a pack of cigarettes My fate, well, we gotta bring it up, how he tried to buy beer off you?
1:35:41
[SPEAKER_04]: Off me, for three dollars, I was like, buddy.
1:35:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I love that dude, I just hope we don't get, didn't get pink eye from him.
1:35:50
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think what he had wasn't contagious.
1:35:53
[SPEAKER_04]: That's just from years and years of looking at that.
1:35:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, the whole is a, yeah, yeah.
1:36:00
[SPEAKER_02]: He was like the perfect guy that I wanted in a packer bar for a packer game.
1:36:05
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I'm like that dude.
1:36:08
[SPEAKER_02]: If he's mustache, that dude's not 50's.
1:36:12
[SPEAKER_02]: 60's, yeah, whatever.
1:36:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Hard life 50's.
1:36:17
[SPEAKER_04]: Psalm 70.