Latest / The Ben Ferguson Podcast / The Assault by Men Playing in Women's Sports: An Exclusive one-on-one w Riley Gaines

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The Assault by Men Playing in Women's Sports: An Exclusive one-on-one w Riley Gaines · The Ben Ferguson Podcast

0:01
Speaker 1: Welcome.
0:01
Speaker 2: It is Verdict with Center, Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with
0:04
Speaker 2: you as always and center. Every once in a while,
0:06
Speaker 2: you and I get to do a show that I
0:09
Speaker 2: say is one of those where I ask people to
0:12
Speaker 2: share it and especially if you have girls, if you
0:17
Speaker 2: have kids that are athletes, if you wanted to defend
0:20
Speaker 2: women and women's rights in sports, this is one of
0:24
Speaker 2: those episodes that will be around forever, and it's a
0:27
Speaker 2: really important conversation. We've been planning on doing this for
0:30
Speaker 2: a while and now we've actually gotten to have the
0:33
Speaker 2: conversation that's so important, and that is with Riley Gaines,
0:38
Speaker 2: someone that you've had testify, that you brought to Congress,
0:41
Speaker 2: that had powerful testimony.
0:44
Speaker 3: Well, that's exactly right. We have a special guest on
0:46
Speaker 3: this podcast. It's Riley Gaines. Riley Gaines was an amazingly
0:50
Speaker 3: talented athlete who found herself for senior year competing against
0:55
Speaker 3: a biological male, Leah Thomas, and what happened to her.
1:00
Speaker 3: It wasn't fair, it wasn't right. And then she's shown
1:03
Speaker 3: just remarkable courage speaking out against it and shining a
1:06
Speaker 3: light at what's happening. And she's she's paid a price
1:09
Speaker 3: for that. You and I have both gotten to know
1:12
Speaker 3: Riley and her courage is a lot of people admire it,
1:16
Speaker 3: and so on this podcast today, we're just going to
1:19
Speaker 3: let Riley tell her story because I think her story
1:21
Speaker 3: is going to inspire you. But it also speaks powerfully
1:26
Speaker 3: for fairness and against the madness of the current ideological left.
1:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, no doubt about it. And she's also doing a
1:34
Speaker 2: lot of college speaking. And if you've got kids or
1:36
Speaker 2: grandkids at universities and she comes to that campus, I'm
1:39
Speaker 2: telling you check out what she's doing on it. It's
1:42
Speaker 2: making a huge impact on protecting women's sports. I want
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3:42
Speaker 3: Now, I'm glad to welcome to the podcast someone who's
3:44
Speaker 3: become a friend and someone who I really admire, Riley Gaines.
3:47
Speaker 3: Riley Gaines was an All American swimmer at the University
3:50
Speaker 3: of Kentucky, and she competed in the twenty twenty two
3:53
Speaker 3: NCAA Division One Women's Swimming and Dining Championships, where she
3:58
Speaker 3: competed against University of Pennsylvania's Leah Thomas, a biological man
4:03
Speaker 3: who much of the politically correct world refused to insist,
4:07
Speaker 3: refused to admit that that that that that he was
4:10
Speaker 3: physically male. And I'll tell you, Riley, I think has
4:12
Speaker 3: shown incredible courage speaking up not just for herself, but
4:17
Speaker 3: but I think for every young girl, every young woman,
4:20
Speaker 3: everyone that wants to see women's sports and girls sports
4:23
Speaker 3: continue and continue to be a fair and real competitive landscape.
4:27
Speaker 3: And so so Riley, thank you for joining Verdict. We're
4:29
Speaker 3: really glad to have you.
4:31
Speaker 4: Well, thank you, thank you both. It's a joy as
4:34
Speaker 4: always to be on with you, to be chatting with you,
4:37
Speaker 4: so I very much appreciate you. Guys.
4:40
Speaker 3: Well, it's uh, thank you for your courage. All right,
4:43
Speaker 3: I'll tell you what. Let's let's just start by telling
4:45
Speaker 3: your story. Tell us, tell us where you grew up,
4:48
Speaker 3: how you got into swimming, and how you know you
4:50
Speaker 3: didn't seek this out, this this this kind of landed.
4:52
Speaker 1: On top of you.
4:54
Speaker 4: To put it lightly, Yeah, I grew up in Nashville, Tennessee. Uh,
5:00
Speaker 4: many generations back we are. I'm a native, which is
5:03
Speaker 4: as you guys know in Texas. There are very few
5:05
Speaker 4: of us Nashvillians who are who are born and raised,
5:09
Speaker 4: but I am one of them. Come from a family
5:12
Speaker 4: of athletes. My dad is an SEC Hall of Famer.
5:15
Speaker 4: He played football. My mom he played softball. My oldest
5:18
Speaker 4: sister went to Ole Miss and she played softball. And
5:20
Speaker 4: my brother who's in college, he played football. My youngest sister,
5:24
Speaker 4: she is fifteen. She is an elite level gymnast and
5:28
Speaker 4: never tell her this, but she's probably the best athlete
5:30
Speaker 4: out of all of us. My dad went on to
5:33
Speaker 4: play in the League for a while. All my uncles
5:36
Speaker 4: won super Bowls all the things, so it's like family
5:38
Speaker 4: of sports. I am.
5:41
Speaker 2: By the way, can we just pause for that one moment?
5:43
Speaker 2: Did you hear that?
5:45
Speaker 3: I heard the old miss and I heard your legs
5:48
Speaker 3: start start trippling with excitement?
5:50
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, there's just greatness here.
5:53
Speaker 2: But ole miss, another Ole Miss and athletes it that
5:55
Speaker 2: I'm just going to bask in this moment of excitement
5:58
Speaker 2: and I apologize, but that's a big moment here, So
6:01
Speaker 2: keep going because hatty Toddy, and.
6:03
Speaker 3: I got to say, by the way, Riley, so you
6:05
Speaker 3: came from Tennessee but then went to University of Kentucky.
6:08
Speaker 3: That's that's quite the movie.
6:09
Speaker 4: I know. I know you know, Ben, I've got to
6:12
Speaker 4: ask he are you familiar with the Chucky Mullens tory?
6:15
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, yes, so Chucky Mullens, I mean, obviously
6:20
Speaker 2: a legend. But I remember when he got hurt and
6:24
Speaker 2: George Bush forty one actually visited him in the hospital
6:27
Speaker 2: at the med in Memphis because when they when they
6:30
Speaker 2: brought him to Memphis after he was the spinal cord injury,
6:34
Speaker 2: and George Bush forty one came and visited him.
6:37
Speaker 1: It was it was a story I'll never forget.
6:39
Speaker 2: And and if you don't know football, for people that
6:42
Speaker 2: are listening, there is still a bust of CHUCKI Mullens
6:44
Speaker 2: and every player touches basically his head as they're running
6:49
Speaker 2: the bus of him as they're running on the field
6:50
Speaker 2: for every home game.
6:53
Speaker 4: So my father was the player that Chucky tackled that
6:56
Speaker 4: game for games. And so no run very very deep
7:02
Speaker 4: with ole Miss and and all the things. So it's
7:05
Speaker 4: always good to be talking with ole Miss fans. Even
7:08
Speaker 4: after Hey, Kentucky, that win this past weekend.
7:11
Speaker 1: Come on, I was waiting for you to throw that
7:13
Speaker 1: in there. I was. I was like, how long is.
7:15
Speaker 2: It going to be until the decor of just disappears
7:18
Speaker 2: from this disappearance you guys, you guys look good. I'm
7:23
Speaker 2: not gonna lie. You almost had Georgia, and I was worried.
7:27
Speaker 2: And I actually got a text from a I will
7:29
Speaker 2: say unnamed SEC football coach who I'm I'm good friends with,
7:34
Speaker 2: and he was he said literally before the game in
7:36
Speaker 2: a text, He's like, dude, I'm not joking. You guys
7:39
Speaker 2: better watch out there better than everyone thinks this year,
7:42
Speaker 2: And that proved to be true.
7:44
Speaker 4: Well that's good to hear, but yeah, you know, I
7:49
Speaker 4: do it was it was. I didn't know I was
7:51
Speaker 4: going to go to Kentucky. I thought, truthfully, my entire life,
7:54
Speaker 4: I thought I was going to be a Florida Gator.
7:56
Speaker 4: Ever since middle school. That's what I thought was in
7:59
Speaker 4: store for me. I remember taking my official visit there.
8:03
Speaker 4: Truth be told, I could have gone anywhere in the
8:05
Speaker 4: country that I wanted to go, and so, you know,
8:07
Speaker 4: I'm weighing the pros and the cons. And I remember
8:09
Speaker 4: being on my visit and one of the coaches, who was,
8:12
Speaker 4: you know, walking us around all day and assisting the recruits.
8:15
Speaker 4: I asked him, I said, how do you know if
8:17
Speaker 4: you're at the right place? And he said, well, we're
8:19
Speaker 4: gonna take you to a football game. You're gonna go
8:21
Speaker 4: on the field. You're gonna hear the fight song, and
8:23
Speaker 4: if you get the chills when the fight song plays,
8:25
Speaker 4: you'll know you're at the right place. And so we're
8:28
Speaker 4: on the field. You know, it's a big it's a
8:31
Speaker 4: big stadium, and the fight song starts playing, and I
8:35
Speaker 4: kid you not, I just remember thinking everyone starts doing
8:37
Speaker 4: that weird chomp thing. I'm like, this is the weirdest
8:39
Speaker 4: thing ever, and orange is objectively ugly. I don't want
8:42
Speaker 4: to be wearing orange. No thanks, kept taking my trips,
8:46
Speaker 4: went to Kentucky, and I just I fell in love
8:49
Speaker 4: with the university. Had a pretty illustrious career there. Twelve
8:53
Speaker 4: time All American, five time SEC champion, actually the SEC
8:56
Speaker 4: record holder in the two hundred butterfly, making me one
8:59
Speaker 4: of the fast Americans of all time, two time Olympic
9:02
Speaker 4: Trial qualifier, SEC Scholar Athlete of the Year, SEC Community
9:06
Speaker 4: Service Leader of the Year. But again, just really to reiterate,
9:09
Speaker 4: it's a lifelong.
9:10
Speaker 3: Journey, all right, Rather go back because I was looking
9:14
Speaker 3: at your bio and it actually said twelve x all American,
9:17
Speaker 3: and I was like, twelve x, how can that be possible?
9:19
Speaker 3: So I didn't mention the twelve x, like twelve times
9:22
Speaker 3: that's pretty far out there.
9:25
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, it's it's I look back now, and it
9:29
Speaker 4: is wild to think again, all that goes into it.
9:32
Speaker 4: We train six hours every single day. You're swimming fifteen
9:36
Speaker 4: thousand yards, which is about ten miles every single day.
9:39
Speaker 4: Three of those hours are before eight am. It's brutal,
9:43
Speaker 4: and so I look back and I'm really proud. I'm
9:45
Speaker 4: proud of my all the things that I was able
9:47
Speaker 4: to achieve, not just in the pool, but also academically
9:50
Speaker 4: and within my service. And really, really it's wild to
9:57
Speaker 4: look back on. But yeah, twelve twelve times. It was
10:02
Speaker 4: definitely even dealing with COVID during all of this, we
10:05
Speaker 4: were rap siven in a championships in that way. It's
10:10
Speaker 4: crazy to look back on, that's for sure, all right, So.
10:13
Speaker 3: Tell us how guys in women's sports intruded on your experience.
10:19
Speaker 4: So my senior year, I was had a goal of
10:23
Speaker 4: winning a national title, which would of course mean becoming
10:25
Speaker 4: the fastest woman in the country. I'm right on pace
10:27
Speaker 4: to achieve this until the instabl a allows a man,
10:32
Speaker 4: a mediocre man at that. Actually that's probably generous, a
10:35
Speaker 4: less than average man competing in his rightful category, the
10:39
Speaker 4: men's category, where he swam for three years on University
10:43
Speaker 4: of Pennsylvania's men's team, ranking you know, in the four
10:46
Speaker 4: hundreds and five hundreds nationally, so then switching to the
10:49
Speaker 4: women's team in his final year to where he would dominate.
10:54
Speaker 4: He went on to win a national title in the
10:55
Speaker 4: five hundred free style and the event that he and
10:58
Speaker 4: I raced in the two hundred three we actually tied in,
11:01
Speaker 4: which is is is really rare? Right, It's it's virtually
11:06
Speaker 4: impossible when you're racing for a minute and forty ish
11:08
Speaker 4: seconds to go the exact same time down to the
11:11
Speaker 4: hundredth of a second. It's also mildly embarrassing for six
11:14
Speaker 4: foot four man, he couldn't even beat me.
11:18
Speaker 3: Yet?
11:18
Speaker 4: How tall?
11:19
Speaker 3: You're not that tall?
11:21
Speaker 4: No, I'm like a whopping five five five six maybe.
11:24
Speaker 4: So he's took a foot on you, that's right, that's right.
11:29
Speaker 1: So that's a lot of arms with a lot of legs.
11:32
Speaker 4: Oh, you're telling me his feet on the block. You know,
11:35
Speaker 4: you're standing on the starting block and you look at
11:39
Speaker 4: the visual of him next to seven women, and his
11:44
Speaker 4: feet take up the whole entire block. Obviously, he's tall,
11:48
Speaker 4: and his arms are lanky. He stills his Adam's apple.
11:50
Speaker 4: Forget the bulge that that is very glaringly obvious in
11:54
Speaker 4: his women's swimsuit, lady like it would is. It's not
11:59
Speaker 4: the word I would use to describe mister Thomas. But
12:03
Speaker 4: really what thrusted me over the edge into no longer
12:07
Speaker 4: being willing to lie? I mean to wait for someone else.
12:12
Speaker 4: That's what I was doing. I was waiting for someone
12:14
Speaker 4: else to say something. Was After we tied, we go
12:18
Speaker 4: behind the awards podium where the INSTABLA official looked at
12:20
Speaker 4: both uh Thomas and myself and said, great job you two,
12:25
Speaker 4: but you tied, and we only have one trophy, and
12:27
Speaker 4: we're going to give that trophy to Leah because we've
12:30
Speaker 4: been advised as an organization that when photos are being
12:33
Speaker 4: taken it's crucial that the trophy is in Leah's hands. Wow, Ultimately,
12:39
Speaker 4: to you, our entire life down to a photo op.
12:42
Speaker 2: So was it even a conversation or was it more
12:45
Speaker 2: like we're dictating to you because I've dealt with the
12:48
Speaker 2: NCAA when when I was playing, and I've I've said
12:52
Speaker 2: this about the NCAA for a long time. They treat
12:56
Speaker 2: us as athletes like we are their slaves and we
13:00
Speaker 2: have basically, once you're in their system, you have no rights.
13:04
Speaker 2: They don't care about you. It's all about making money.
13:06
Speaker 2: It's a mafia, is my opinion on the NCAA. I
13:09
Speaker 2: think it's been a terrible organization for far too long
13:12
Speaker 2: and taking advantage of far too many athletes. You're the
13:15
Speaker 2: biggest example of that in my opinion. But like, was
13:17
Speaker 2: there even a conversation like with your coach or your
13:20
Speaker 2: AD or anyone that was representing you.
13:24
Speaker 4: There was no conversation at any point the whole season.
13:28
Speaker 4: Forget the trophy and said there was no Actually it
13:32
Speaker 4: was the exact opposite of a conversation. We had to
13:34
Speaker 4: do all of the training and learn how to be
13:37
Speaker 4: kind and inclusive and about pronouns. As a twenty one
13:40
Speaker 4: year old senior in college, they made me go to
13:43
Speaker 4: sensitivity training and literally word for word, the verbiage that
13:47
Speaker 4: they used was I had to keep going through this
13:49
Speaker 4: training until they felt like I had been re educated enough.
13:53
Speaker 4: I will say I had great support from my coaches.
13:55
Speaker 4: There's no doubt about that. My coaches, I mean my
13:59
Speaker 4: coach was my best friends for four years really, and
14:03
Speaker 4: he was very supportive. My head coach, my athletic director,
14:05
Speaker 4: Mitch Barnhardt at the University of Kentucky. He's been the
14:08
Speaker 4: AD for twenty plus years. He is an incredible I
14:12
Speaker 4: mean an incredible human. He's a wonderful Christian. He leads
14:15
Speaker 4: by example. I had tremendous support from him as well.
14:19
Speaker 4: I still I mean we talked today. I still stay
14:21
Speaker 4: in touch with him. But the academic institutional side of things,
14:28
Speaker 4: that's where a lot of this forceful I mean, the
14:33
Speaker 4: trainings and all the stuff, it came from the academia
14:36
Speaker 4: side of the university.
14:37
Speaker 3: Man, And what are the record books show? Do they
14:39
Speaker 3: list you as the national champion or what do they say?
14:42
Speaker 4: They just show as Hi, That's what it shows. My
14:46
Speaker 4: university went on to nominate me for NCAA Woman of
14:49
Speaker 4: the Year, which is the most prestigious honor for collegiate
14:52
Speaker 4: female athletes, to which I was super excited about this.
14:55
Speaker 4: It's a very humbling award. The was in civil Women
15:02
Speaker 4: of the Year was not exclusive to just women because
15:04
Speaker 4: Thomas was also nominated. So blessed and bla yeah to
15:09
Speaker 4: your point, Bend. They have remained and continue to remain
15:14
Speaker 4: the weak, need spineless, morally bankrupt cowards.
15:18
Speaker 3: That they are.
15:20
Speaker 2: I want to take a moment real quick and just
15:22
Speaker 2: pause and say thank you to all of you that
15:26
Speaker 2: have been helping the people in Israel through the International
15:29
Speaker 2: Fellowship of Christians and Jews. And with the barbaric attack
15:34
Speaker 2: now directly from Iran that was launched on Israel, they
15:38
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15:44
Speaker 2: missile attack against Israel that happened shows you what the
15:48
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15:52
Speaker 2: in fact, every moment of every day. And now is
15:57
Speaker 2: the time that we need to help the people in Israel.
16:00
Speaker 2: And I'm asking you to give now and give as
16:02
Speaker 2: generously as you can to our friends at the International
16:05
Speaker 2: Fellowship of Christians and Jews because they are providing safety.
16:09
Speaker 2: They are providing bomb shelters, they are providing food and
16:13
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16:18
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16:22
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16:42
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16:46
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16:54
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17:01
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17:17
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17:20
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17:29
Speaker 2: support IFCJ dot org and help the people that are
17:33
Speaker 2: under attack by Iran, this time in Israel right now.
17:38
Speaker 2: There's two parts of this story, and I think part
17:41
Speaker 2: of it is the NCAAA, but the other part of
17:44
Speaker 2: it is the threat to female athletes. And your sport
17:50
Speaker 2: is not one where there's like interaction directly with one person,
17:54
Speaker 2: like there isn't posting up in basketball or football, or
17:58
Speaker 2: or field hockey or volleyball for example.
18:01
Speaker 1: Yours is you know you're in your lane.
18:04
Speaker 2: But there is still a very weal threat to women
18:08
Speaker 2: you specifically when you have to share a locker room
18:13
Speaker 2: with a grown man. And I'm assuming the NCAA did
18:18
Speaker 2: not protect you from that scenario at all.
18:22
Speaker 4: Again, they did the exact opposite of protect us. They
18:25
Speaker 4: told us that we weren't even allowed to oppose this. Actually,
18:29
Speaker 4: they we weren't even forewarned that we would be sharing
18:32
Speaker 4: the locker room. But then, of course, once we understood
18:36
Speaker 4: the reality of the situation, only after being exposed and exploited,
18:41
Speaker 4: simultaneously exploited to a six foot four naked man inches
18:46
Speaker 4: fully intact, by the way, and had no problem exposing
18:49
Speaker 4: himself inches away from where we were simultaneously fully undressed
18:54
Speaker 4: in approaching, you know, an official on the pull deck.
18:57
Speaker 4: I will never forget I went up to him and
18:58
Speaker 4: I said, hey, what in the world. I understand the
19:01
Speaker 4: guidelines that allowed a man into the pool with us, Sure,
19:04
Speaker 4: those guidelines are posted whatever, But in the what guidelines
19:10
Speaker 4: allowed a man into our locker room? And so nonchalantly
19:15
Speaker 4: this official responded back with, oh, well, we actually got
19:19
Speaker 4: around this by making the locker rooms unisex, meaning first,
19:23
Speaker 4: I remember, the first thought that came through my head
19:25
Speaker 4: actually was okay, you realize by admitting you had to
19:29
Speaker 4: change the rules, you're admitting that Thomas isn't a woman, right,
19:32
Speaker 4: you realize that. But secondly, unisex, so any man, any coach,
19:38
Speaker 4: any official, any parent, any pervert who wanted to, quite frankly,
19:42
Speaker 4: could come down there and share this changing space with us,
19:46
Speaker 4: with us in bare minimum. We weren't even forewarned about this.
19:51
Speaker 3: Can any of the women get a choice, get an
19:53
Speaker 3: option to opt out, to say, look, I really don't
19:55
Speaker 3: want to undress with a naked man.
19:57
Speaker 4: No, there was no place on the pool deck that
20:00
Speaker 4: we could have gone that Thomas did not have access to.
20:03
Speaker 4: And I really cannot put into words the feelings of
20:08
Speaker 4: I mean, of course it's awkward, it's embarrassing, it's uncomfortable,
20:10
Speaker 4: it's humiliating, but really it's feelings of utter violation and
20:14
Speaker 4: feelings of betrayal. And I mean it's traumatizing, really, and
20:20
Speaker 4: not even necessarily traumatizing because of what we were forced
20:23
Speaker 4: to see or how we were forcibly and non consensually exploited,
20:26
Speaker 4: which used to correctly be called sexual abuse or sexual harassment.
20:30
Speaker 4: It was traumatizing for me again to know just how
20:33
Speaker 4: easy it was for them to throw our rights to
20:36
Speaker 4: privacy as women entirely out of the window.
20:39
Speaker 2: I think people need to understand too, Riley. And if
20:41
Speaker 2: you'll explain it, because I've seen the locker rooms the NCAA,
20:45
Speaker 2: especially when you're at events, so if you're playing in
20:49
Speaker 2: a championship for you know, your conference.
20:54
Speaker 1: A lot of these venues.
20:55
Speaker 2: The locker rooms, when we say there's zero privacy, there
20:59
Speaker 2: is not a stall to go into to change. There
21:02
Speaker 2: is not a set of lockers, even like you might
21:06
Speaker 2: see at a country club, for example, or a sports
21:09
Speaker 2: club that you can go in another aisle for some privacy.
21:12
Speaker 2: Many times of showers there are not even shower curtains.
21:15
Speaker 2: It's communal showers. When I say there is no privacy
21:19
Speaker 2: in locker rooms, there is not. I'm assuming that's the
21:22
Speaker 2: scenario you guys are in.
21:24
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's important to set that scene. Especially a
21:27
Speaker 4: swimming locker room not a place of modesty. These suits
21:31
Speaker 4: that you're putting on, I mean you're raising suits, you know,
21:33
Speaker 4: their papers in their skin tied. It takes about at
21:36
Speaker 4: least really twenty minutes to poke and prod yourself into
21:39
Speaker 4: these suits. And that's that's twenty minutes of which you're
21:41
Speaker 4: fully exposed. And Yeah, the locker room, it's a it's
21:45
Speaker 4: a giant square. Like there's no there's no rooms, there
21:48
Speaker 4: were high there's no nothing. It's a giant square. It's
21:51
Speaker 4: a very intimate space. And that's just growing up a swimmer.
21:55
Speaker 4: Of course, locker rooms in general aren't comfortable, but growing
21:58
Speaker 4: up a swimmer, you almost become comfortable being vulnerable in
22:02
Speaker 4: that environment. But let me tell you that vulnerability was
22:05
Speaker 4: stripped from us when I had my back turned and
22:08
Speaker 4: I heard a man's voice in that changing space.
22:12
Speaker 3: Now, now let me ask you, what did the other
22:14
Speaker 3: women think? Because you really, you've demonstrated a courage and
22:18
Speaker 3: you've paid a price. People have demonized you. You've been
22:20
Speaker 3: attacked and vilified. I'm willing to guess the other women
22:25
Speaker 3: weren't thrilled about it either, but they just weren't weren't
22:29
Speaker 3: able or willing to speak out the same way you have.
22:32
Speaker 4: Let me tell you of my team at Kentucky, a
22:35
Speaker 4: forty girls, thirty eight of us feel the exact same way.
22:39
Speaker 4: That's not because there's thirty eight staunch conservatives swimming at
22:43
Speaker 4: the University of Kentucky. It's because there were thirty eight
22:46
Speaker 4: girls who understood we worked our entire lives to get there,
22:49
Speaker 4: all to have the rug really ripped out from under us.
22:52
Speaker 4: And that's the general consensus of how we all felt.
22:55
Speaker 4: I won't claim to speak for every single person, though,
22:58
Speaker 4: but I do claim to speak for the overwhelming majority
23:02
Speaker 4: of us because Ted, look, I can attest to the tears.
23:06
Speaker 4: I can attest to the tears not just from the
23:08
Speaker 4: moms in the stands who were watching as their daughters
23:11
Speaker 4: were being obliterated in the sports that they once loved,
23:13
Speaker 4: but the tears from the girls who placed ninth or
23:16
Speaker 4: seventeenth and missed out on being named in All American
23:19
Speaker 4: by one place. And I can attest to the extreme
23:22
Speaker 4: discomfort in the locker room. And I can attest to
23:24
Speaker 4: the whispers because that's what they were. They were whispers
23:27
Speaker 4: of anger and frustration, again from girls who, just like me,
23:32
Speaker 4: worked from the age of four to be able to
23:37
Speaker 4: compete on that athletic stage. So understand, people aren't staying
23:44
Speaker 4: quiet because they agree with this. They're saying quiet because
23:48
Speaker 4: they're terrified.
23:49
Speaker 3: But what are the consequences to speaking out?
23:51
Speaker 4: I can tell you what I faced. I was told
23:54
Speaker 4: I would lose all my friends. I was told I
23:56
Speaker 4: would never get a job. No employer would ever hire
23:59
Speaker 4: me because they would look me up and they would
24:01
Speaker 4: see that I'm a transphobe. My school told me, you know, Riley,
24:04
Speaker 4: you want to go to dental school. No dental school
24:06
Speaker 4: will ever accept you or even look at your application
24:10
Speaker 4: if you speak up about this. They said, you know,
24:13
Speaker 4: you signed a scholarship, and remember when you sign that scholarship,
24:16
Speaker 4: you gave away your rights to speak in your own
24:18
Speaker 4: personal capacity. Remember who you represent. Remember whose name is
24:22
Speaker 4: across your chest and across your cap, because it's not yours,
24:25
Speaker 4: it's ours. And Riley understand, we have already taken your
24:28
Speaker 4: stance for you. My university went as far as to
24:31
Speaker 4: tell us that if we did speak out in any
24:35
Speaker 4: harm whatsoever, we're to go towards Thomas's way, whether it
24:38
Speaker 4: was in the form of physical harm, emotional harm, self
24:41
Speaker 4: inflicted for that matter. They said, then understand that could
24:45
Speaker 4: result in a potential death, and that would make you
24:47
Speaker 4: a murderer. And you don't want that, dude, You don't
24:50
Speaker 4: want to be a murderer. No, So I suggest you'll
24:53
Speaker 4: be kind, and I suggest you'd be inclusive, because otherwise
24:57
Speaker 4: you'll have blood on your hands. But it's effective. I
25:01
Speaker 4: mean that type of emotional blackmail that works when you're
25:04
Speaker 4: talking to eighteen nineteen twenty year old girls telling them
25:07
Speaker 4: they're going to be murderers. I don't blame others for
25:11
Speaker 4: kind of just shutting up and putting up.
25:14
Speaker 3: So let's talk talk fairness for a second. One of
25:16
Speaker 3: the things you said at the outset, as you said
25:18
Speaker 3: when Leah Thomas was competing as a man, that he
25:22
Speaker 3: was a mediocre in fact, that he was in the
25:24
Speaker 3: bottom half of men competing in college swimming. That he
25:28
Speaker 3: was in I think you said the top four to
25:30
Speaker 3: five hundred, So it wasn't close. It wasn't like he
25:33
Speaker 3: was near the top of man and then just ended
25:36
Speaker 3: up the same place in women. It was a pretty
25:38
Speaker 3: massive differential, is that right.
25:40
Speaker 4: Yeah, this was not a lateral movement at all. He
25:43
Speaker 4: never even got remotely close to qualifying for NCAA's in
25:48
Speaker 4: the men's division, to again a measly twelve months later
25:51
Speaker 4: winning a national championship. And I forgot to mention this
25:56
Speaker 4: Will Thomas figure is actually from Texas. He grew up
26:00
Speaker 4: in Westlake, Texas or and swam here, went to school
26:03
Speaker 4: here before going on to UPenn, So there's a unique
26:08
Speaker 4: connection of course to the state here as well. But yeah, no,
26:14
Speaker 4: not a loteral movement at all, which is the case
26:16
Speaker 4: we've seen across the board. The story is the same
26:19
Speaker 4: every single time. A mediocre man turns into a record
26:23
Speaker 4: smashing woman.
26:25
Speaker 3: Of course in air quotes, so Riley help people who
26:27
Speaker 3: are listening understand who haven't been competitive swimmers. So you know,
26:31
Speaker 3: maybe you go swimming in your backyard, you play around
26:33
Speaker 3: with other kids, but you haven't competed at the elite
26:35
Speaker 3: level swimming. What are the advantages that the physical advantages
26:40
Speaker 3: that a biological man has over a biological woman in
26:44
Speaker 3: competitive swimming.
26:45
Speaker 4: Well, of course, a whole list of them. Let's start
26:49
Speaker 4: with with things that I guess testosterone would impact testosterone levels,
26:55
Speaker 4: things like your of course, your your muscular structure, right,
27:01
Speaker 4: but also things like your lung size, your heart size,
27:04
Speaker 4: you're the size and lengths of your limbs. I mentioned
27:07
Speaker 4: his foot size, all things that are paramount in the
27:11
Speaker 4: sport of swimming, which, let me just ad, this is
27:15
Speaker 4: a sport we are working again all year in hopes
27:19
Speaker 4: to shave a few one hundreds of a second off
27:23
Speaker 4: of your time. There's not a lot of margin of
27:26
Speaker 4: error here, or you know, we're hoping to shave tenths
27:30
Speaker 4: of a second. So to compete against someone who has
27:33
Speaker 4: advantages that far outweigh anything you could ever do. There's
27:38
Speaker 4: no amount of training there's no amount of sleep or
27:41
Speaker 4: diet or anything that you could do. And let's say,
27:45
Speaker 4: for example, one hundred yard freestyle to shave at that
27:49
Speaker 4: level a full second or two seconds off your time,
27:52
Speaker 4: you're fighting to shave hundreds of a second off your time.
27:56
Speaker 2: We're spending a lot of time talking about obviously protecting
27:59
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28:03
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28:38
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30:37
Speaker 2: in a moment ago that you know that the girls
30:38
Speaker 2: that were crying and the mothers and the dads were
30:41
Speaker 2: crying because they were one shot out right, one spot
30:45
Speaker 2: out of an incredible prestigious award. When you talk about
30:48
Speaker 2: shaving time and then this advantage that he has over you,
30:52
Speaker 2: what was the difference between first place in tenth place
30:56
Speaker 2: when it talks about when you're talking about shaving seconds
30:59
Speaker 2: or tens of second and it's off, Like, I don't
31:01
Speaker 2: think people understand just how close it is at the
31:04
Speaker 2: elite level.
31:06
Speaker 4: Yeah, again, tens of seconds, that's how much you're even
31:11
Speaker 4: in the fifty freestyle for example, it's first place to
31:15
Speaker 4: sixteenth place, which is what qualifies of being an All
31:19
Speaker 4: American top sixteen in the country. It's tens of a second.
31:23
Speaker 3: Now we're seeing this not just in swimming. We're seeing
31:26
Speaker 3: this in sport after sport after sport. Right now, it's
31:29
Speaker 3: become an issue with San Jose State Volleyball, where there's
31:32
Speaker 3: a biological man who's playing on the women's volleyball team,
31:36
Speaker 3: and there have now been multiple women's teams that have
31:39
Speaker 3: refused to play. Give us your reaction to that, having
31:43
Speaker 3: competed in a different sport but at the same elite level.
31:48
Speaker 4: Well, first, this is the first time we have seen
31:52
Speaker 4: something like this, a movement in motion where teams are
31:57
Speaker 4: standing in unity together saying we won't allow this to happen.
32:01
Speaker 4: Enough is enough. You're not going to continue to discriminate
32:04
Speaker 4: against us on the basis of our sex, which is
32:07
Speaker 4: of course everything that Title nine was passed originally to
32:11
Speaker 4: prevent from happening. As you described San Jose State University,
32:16
Speaker 4: they allowed a man onto their team to take a scholarship.
32:20
Speaker 4: He's taken a roster spot. He has taken when they travel,
32:23
Speaker 4: you know that travel spot that rightfully belongs to a girl,
32:27
Speaker 4: to a woman. But in talking with and working with
32:32
Speaker 4: these presidents of these other Mountain West Conference schools like,
32:36
Speaker 4: for example, Southern Utah, Boise State, followed by University of
32:40
Speaker 4: Wyoming and most recently just last night, Utah State, these
32:44
Speaker 4: four schools have said, hey, we're not going to compete
32:47
Speaker 4: against this team. The universities, of course haven't specifically cited
32:52
Speaker 4: a reason, but I can tell you in talking to
32:54
Speaker 4: these teams, these girls are fearful of their safety. They
32:59
Speaker 4: understand and look, we know we're going to take a loss.
33:03
Speaker 4: That's what it means when you forfeit a match, but
33:06
Speaker 4: this is a worthy cause. We don't want to be
33:08
Speaker 4: on the receiving end. I've seen this boy give career
33:11
Speaker 4: ending concussions to girls, and so they cite safety concerns
33:16
Speaker 4: these women for not feeling comfortable to play. And I'll
33:19
Speaker 4: tell you there's more schools in the pipeline coming up
33:23
Speaker 4: who will soon also cancel their games against San Jose
33:25
Speaker 4: State University.
33:26
Speaker 3: Well, and the risks of physical safety, particularly in sports
33:30
Speaker 3: that have more and more direct contact, whether you're dealing
33:34
Speaker 3: with volleyball and someone spiking the ball into your face
33:37
Speaker 3: or a sport like basketball, or we saw at the
33:40
Speaker 3: Olympics so called women's boxing with biolet logical males competing.
33:46
Speaker 3: Give us your thoughts on the risks of really serious
33:50
Speaker 3: injury that can happen when you have biological males engaged
33:54
Speaker 3: in direct physical violence in a sport against women.
34:00
Speaker 4: Well, I'm not even going to give you my thoughts.
34:01
Speaker 4: I'll tell you exactly what is happening. I'm going to
34:04
Speaker 4: give you factual information here. Let's look, for example at
34:08
Speaker 4: Peyton McNabb, a high school senior she was at the
34:11
Speaker 4: time in North Carolina, a similar situation. Actually, it's the
34:15
Speaker 4: sport of ball, of volleyball. A man on the opposing team,
34:19
Speaker 4: he jumps up, he spikes, the ball, hits her in
34:21
Speaker 4: the face. She's knocked unconscious, where she lays for many
34:23
Speaker 4: minutes before you know, finally coming back around. Still to
34:27
Speaker 4: this day, that was two years ago. That was September
34:29
Speaker 4: of twenty twenty two, so over two years ago. Still
34:33
Speaker 4: to this day, she's partially paralyzed on her right side.
34:36
Speaker 4: Her vision is impaired, her memory is impaired. She has
34:39
Speaker 4: to have special accommodations for testing at school because she
34:42
Speaker 4: can't retain information like she once could. She was supposed
34:45
Speaker 4: to play softball in college, but because of this brain injury,
34:49
Speaker 4: she will not go on to do that. She just
34:52
Speaker 4: had part of her pituitary gland removed out of her
34:54
Speaker 4: brain because of how traumatic the head injury was. Let's
34:58
Speaker 4: look for or look at for example, what we saw
35:02
Speaker 4: at a high school in Massachusetts where a male was
35:05
Speaker 4: allowed to play field hockey with the girls against the girls,
35:10
Speaker 4: and this boy he slaps a shot at the women.
35:13
Speaker 4: One of the women on the field. It hits her
35:15
Speaker 4: in the face, in the mouth, and it knocks all
35:17
Speaker 4: her teeth out. Even she had to undergo reconstruction, facial
35:20
Speaker 4: reconstruction surgery to reconstruct her jaw. This male player, he's
35:26
Speaker 4: given career and in concussions to girls. Like I said,
35:29
Speaker 4: most recently, we saw him hit a woman in the
35:32
Speaker 4: face from University of Delaware to where she doesn't even
35:35
Speaker 4: have time to defend herself. Okay, like there was no
35:39
Speaker 4: reaction time for her that would have been able to
35:42
Speaker 4: prevent this hit from hitting her in the head. The
35:46
Speaker 4: list goes on. We saw recently even what the Olympics
35:49
Speaker 4: has done. The IOC allowed two men, two plural males,
35:55
Speaker 4: to compete in women's boxing, which naturally these both of
35:59
Speaker 4: these and went on to win gold medals in their
36:02
Speaker 4: respective weight divisions. And one of the female boxers who
36:05
Speaker 4: fought against this boxer, one of the male boxers, said
36:09
Speaker 4: she had never been punched that forcefully, that hard in
36:13
Speaker 4: her entire life. She said, this was nothing a punch
36:17
Speaker 4: that a woman could throw.
36:19
Speaker 3: How is this remotely fair? In what universe? Is this
36:24
Speaker 3: even arguably fair?
36:26
Speaker 4: Well, it's absolutely not. And I'll tell you the people
36:31
Speaker 4: who are lobbying for this, who are voting in favor
36:34
Speaker 4: of this, who are advocating for this, they don't even
36:36
Speaker 4: believe it. Even recently, Senator Cruz, when I testified actually
36:41
Speaker 4: before your committee, I had some of your colleagues from
36:43
Speaker 4: across the aisle come up to me before the hearing
36:46
Speaker 4: and say, hey, look, you know, I played football at Stanford.
36:50
Speaker 4: I totally get where you're coming from. I totally agree.
36:53
Speaker 4: And then gets on the other side of the table
36:55
Speaker 4: and what.
36:55
Speaker 1: Does he do.
36:57
Speaker 4: He starts grilling me and sympathizes with those on the
37:02
Speaker 4: other side, not the women. So they don't believe this.
37:07
Speaker 4: There are again just cowards, and they know that. That's
37:10
Speaker 4: why one you have been incredible on many issues outside
37:15
Speaker 4: of the gender ideology movement, but your opponent here in
37:20
Speaker 4: your state. I was so enthused to see this ad
37:24
Speaker 4: come out recently. It was so powerful, it was so effective.
37:29
Speaker 4: If the people listening haven't seen it, go watch it.
37:31
Speaker 4: I've reposted on my page. It's this perfect depiction and
37:36
Speaker 4: that very even if you just watched the last ten seconds,
37:39
Speaker 4: you see a man in a jersey with al right
37:42
Speaker 4: on the back of it and he tramples a young girl.
37:47
Speaker 4: And that is the message, perfectly depicted. That is the
37:51
Speaker 4: message that we are receiving and that people are voting for.
37:57
Speaker 4: That's what you're getting if you vote for someone who
37:59
Speaker 4: advance is these progressive and harmful policies.
38:03
Speaker 3: Let me ask you. You've gone to a number of
38:05
Speaker 3: campuses and you've spoken out, and I admire your courage
38:09
Speaker 3: because you've had some really unpleasant receptions and threats of
38:15
Speaker 3: violence against you. Describe a little bit what you've experienced
38:19
Speaker 3: as a consequence of speaking out against this.
38:22
Speaker 4: Well, I was just actually explaining to Ben I'm actually
38:27
Speaker 4: a University of Texas and Austin's campus today, and I'll
38:31
Speaker 4: tell you there was some minor heckling, but for the
38:34
Speaker 4: most part, was very well received because these students are
38:40
Speaker 4: desperate to hear the truth, to be honest with you,
38:42
Speaker 4: they've been denied it from their universities, from these you know,
38:46
Speaker 4: institutional academic institutions. They've been denied the truth through censorship
38:52
Speaker 4: and other things. And so I had a great reception tonight.
38:55
Speaker 4: But you're right, I have been in scenarios where I
38:59
Speaker 4: have not been over well received. One, for example, is
39:02
Speaker 4: San Francisco State University where I mean I was accosted,
39:06
Speaker 4: I was ambush, I was attacked by these these protesters,
39:10
Speaker 4: hundreds of them. They rush into the room, they turn
39:12
Speaker 4: off the lights. They I mean, I'm being punched in
39:14
Speaker 4: the face by these men wearing dresses, which again they
39:19
Speaker 4: ultimately held me for ransom for about five hours, demanding
39:23
Speaker 4: that if I wanted to make it home to see
39:25
Speaker 4: my family safely again, I had to pay them money.
39:27
Speaker 4: All the while the police are being held for ransom
39:29
Speaker 4: with me. Because remember this is San Francisco, and the
39:32
Speaker 4: police don't know I shouldn't say they don't know how
39:35
Speaker 4: to do their job. They just don't do their job,
39:38
Speaker 4: and in this city, well.
39:43
Speaker 3: Prevented from doing it by the political leadership who doesn't
39:46
Speaker 3: let them protect protect the rights of innocence because ideology,
39:52
Speaker 3: Trump's actually defending people's rights and people's safety. And we
39:55
Speaker 3: see whether it's in San Francisco or Minneapolis, or New
39:59
Speaker 3: York or or Los Angeles, we see that left wing
40:04
Speaker 3: democrats prevent law enforcement from protecting innocence in many cases
40:09
Speaker 3: from violence. That the ideology on the left is if
40:15
Speaker 3: the violence is carried out by someone whose politics they
40:18
Speaker 3: align with, then they're happy to look the other way
40:21
Speaker 3: and to effectively handcuff police officers from protecting the innocent
40:26
Speaker 3: from violence.
40:27
Speaker 4: And that's exactly what these officers said. You know, I
40:30
Speaker 4: asked them, can't you do something, to which they said, no,
40:34
Speaker 4: we can't. We're not allowed to do anything because we're
40:36
Speaker 4: not allowed to be seen as anything other than an
40:38
Speaker 4: ally to that community or else will lose their jobs. Again,
40:41
Speaker 4: the same community who's on the other side of the
40:43
Speaker 4: door where we were barricaded, who called these officers racist
40:48
Speaker 4: pigs for protecting a white girl like me, That's who
40:52
Speaker 4: they again were almost forcibly had to side with in
40:57
Speaker 4: this scenario.
40:59
Speaker 3: Well, Riley, thank you, thank you for speaking out. Thank
41:01
Speaker 3: you for speaking out not just for yourself, but you're
41:04
Speaker 3: speaking out for women, You're speaking out for young girls,
41:07
Speaker 3: You're speaking out for the next generation of athletes. You know,
41:10
Speaker 3: Title nine transformed athletics and created opportunity for millions of
41:16
Speaker 3: schoolgirls to compete and develop discipline and teamwork and get
41:20
Speaker 3: all of the benefits of athletic competition. And I got
41:23
Speaker 3: to say, the current insanity of pretending there is no
41:26
Speaker 3: such thing as girls and boys, there is no such
41:29
Speaker 3: thing as women and men. It really threatens the ability
41:33
Speaker 3: of both women and girls to compete in athletics. And
41:36
Speaker 3: I think your courage there are a lot of people
41:39
Speaker 3: who are grateful to you, even if they don't say so.
41:42
Speaker 3: I'm telling you there are millions of Texans and millions
41:45
Speaker 3: of people across across the country who are grateful to you.
41:47
Speaker 4: Riley Well. I appreciate both you, Senator Cruz, and of
41:51
Speaker 4: course been for everything that you guys have done. I mean,
41:55
Speaker 4: I think Senator Cruz, in terms of the gender ideology movement,
42:00
Speaker 4: there are really few who have done it as such
42:03
Speaker 4: a great job as you as highlighting the insanity spreading awareness.
42:09
Speaker 4: I think of the activist judge Sarah Netburn who I mean,
42:15
Speaker 4: your line of questioning was just brilliant, It was perfect,
42:18
Speaker 4: It was just enough. I believe the vote was twelve
42:21
Speaker 4: to eleven. Yeah, but again that's largely a part of
42:26
Speaker 4: of well because of everything that you and your colleagues
42:29
Speaker 4: have done, and so just very very grateful for you
42:33
Speaker 4: guys and doing the necessary work even when it's not
42:38
Speaker 4: the popular thing. So thank you.
42:40
Speaker 3: Well, there's a power to common sense and and just
42:44
Speaker 3: just speaking the truth at a time when when when
42:47
Speaker 3: it seems so many others are terrified to do so
42:49
Speaker 3: that that has an enormous power to enormous force.
42:53
Speaker 4: Well, thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm waiting for
42:57
Speaker 4: the day when Kentucky and Texas flag.
43:00
Speaker 3: Well that will come soon enough, and I will be
43:04
Speaker 3: happily rooting for Texas. But we'll see what happens.
43:06
Speaker 2: Rilly, thanks again for coming on. People can follow you
43:09
Speaker 2: on social media obviously and see where you're speaking around
43:12
Speaker 2: the country. If you've never seen Riley speak, put it
43:14
Speaker 2: on your list. Tell your kids, your grandkids at colleges
43:17
Speaker 2: to make sure they see her if she is coming
43:19
Speaker 2: to their campus.
43:20
Speaker 1: Don't forget.
43:21
Speaker 2: We do the show Monday, Wednesday and Friday, So make
43:23
Speaker 2: sure you get that subscriber auto download button and make
43:27
Speaker 2: sure you grab my podcast as well, the Ben Ferguson podcasts.
43:30
Speaker 1: For those in between days.
43:32
Speaker 2: I will keep you updated on everything going on as
43:35
Speaker 2: well in the latest breaking news and the Senator. I
43:37
Speaker 2: will see you back here for the week in review
43:40
Speaker 2: on Saturday morning.