Latest / The Ben Ferguson Podcast / Inside the Deal to Free WikiLeaks Founder Julian Assange

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Inside the Deal to Free WikiLeaks Founder Julian Assange · The Ben Ferguson Podcast

0:01
Speaker 1: So in some national slash international news, Assange has been
0:06
Speaker 1: freed in a US plea deal. Wiki Leaks is now
0:10
Speaker 1: confirming he has agreed to plead guilty in exchange for release,
0:14
Speaker 1: ending his standoff with the United States of America. Here
0:18
Speaker 1: is the latest on this story.
0:20
Speaker 2: A huge development overnight in a case that has captured
0:23
Speaker 2: the world's attention for years. Wikileak's founder, Julian Assange, who's
0:28
Speaker 2: been in jail for more than five years, may soon
0:30
Speaker 2: be free. He's expected to appear in a US courtroom
0:32
Speaker 2: tomorrow to accept a plea deal for espionage with a
0:36
Speaker 2: Department of Justice. Assnge was released from a British prison
0:39
Speaker 2: last night and flew to his home country of Australia.
0:42
Speaker 2: He spent years trying to avoid US prosecution after seeking
0:45
Speaker 2: asylum in the Ecuadorian embassy as well. Assange is now
0:49
Speaker 2: expected to plead guilty to a felony charge of violating
0:52
Speaker 2: the Espionage Act. He released one of the largest US
0:55
Speaker 2: government breaches of classified documents. Senen's nick following the story
1:01
Speaker 2: for US, You've been following the story for a very
1:03
Speaker 2: long time. This has been an incredibly long saga where
1:07
Speaker 2: he's making his court appearance is part of this story.
1:10
Speaker 2: Where is that happening is What does it say about
1:12
Speaker 2: what's going on in his mind?
1:14
Speaker 3: Well, it speaks a lot to Julian Losannge's state of mind,
1:17
Speaker 3: the fact that he has an absolute distrust of the
1:19
Speaker 3: US judicial system that he won't appear in a court
1:23
Speaker 3: in North America to face this one count that he's
1:27
Speaker 3: expected to enter this plea deal and agree to in
1:31
Speaker 3: exchange for time served in jail. So he is going
1:34
Speaker 3: to be appearing in a US district court in Saipan,
1:38
Speaker 3: which is in the archipelago of islands in the Pacific Ocean,
1:42
Speaker 3: not too far from Guam. He's on his way there now,
1:45
Speaker 3: believed to be somewhere close to Bangkok, in the aircraft
1:50
Speaker 3: that took him from the UK late yesterday afternoon. This
1:55
Speaker 3: court is part of this sort of complex jigsaw puzzle
2:00
Speaker 3: in sort of essentially facilitating Assange release.
2:05
Speaker 4: And we've got details.
2:06
Speaker 3: Of this in the last half an hour or so
2:08
Speaker 3: from a UK court saying that this deal was essentially
2:11
Speaker 3: worked out or signed off on in the middle of
2:14
Speaker 3: last week, that the British court system has given him
2:19
Speaker 3: leave to sort of forego his bail conditions. If you
2:24
Speaker 3: will to leave the country to go face this count,
2:28
Speaker 3: and the British courts expect by the end of this
2:30
Speaker 3: week to get everything sort of signed side signed, sealed
2:34
Speaker 3: and deliver from Assannger as side from the US side,
2:36
Speaker 3: and will that will be an end of his case.
2:39
Speaker 3: But it's been a hugely long road, not least for
2:42
Speaker 3: his family and all those campaigning for his release. And
2:44
Speaker 3: we've heard from his wife, Stella Massage, who's in we
2:48
Speaker 3: believe Australia waiting for his arrival there in the coming days.
2:54
Speaker 5: When we met he was under house arrest. It will
2:56
Speaker 5: be the first time that I that I get to
2:59
Speaker 5: see him as a fully free man. And I was
3:02
Speaker 5: just when I was speaking to him, I said, well,
3:05
Speaker 5: you know, we can walk, go for a walk and
3:07
Speaker 5: there will be no restrictions, no curfew.
3:12
Speaker 3: So it's been a head but an incredibly long road
3:15
Speaker 3: to get to this point. As you said, you know,
3:17
Speaker 3: two thousand and ten Assanngers in Sweden because the United
3:23
Speaker 3: States is interested in bringing him to justice for the
3:27
Speaker 3: Wiki leagues. Then he is under you know, facing an
3:33
Speaker 3: arrest warrant from the Swedish authorities linked to rape allegations.
3:37
Speaker 3: Flees to the UK twenty twelve. The UK says he
3:40
Speaker 3: can be extra related to Sweden. Assannge bolts for the
3:43
Speaker 3: Ecuadorian embassy in London. He's there until he's extra died
3:46
Speaker 3: from there in twenty nineteen, held in the UK Belmarsh
3:50
Speaker 3: Jail since then for the last sixty two months, fighting
3:54
Speaker 3: extradition to the United States every step of the way.
3:56
Speaker 3: So it's those sixty two months in Belmarsh jail which
4:00
Speaker 3: were expected to be the time served, and that's why
4:03
Speaker 3: he'll get off on this one count.
4:06
Speaker 6: And we should mention this.
4:08
Speaker 2: He was also responsible in twenty sixteen for releasing some
4:11
Speaker 2: emails from the campaign chair of Hillary Clinton, John Podesta,
4:16
Speaker 2: which played a role, but those are not any part
4:20
Speaker 2: of these charges, but something to note. Nick Robertson in
4:23
Speaker 2: London life for us this morning, I appreciate you well.
4:25
Speaker 7: Joining me now from Camber is Australian Senator David Shubrich Senator.
4:31
Speaker 7: Great to have you with us. You have continuously been
4:36
Speaker 7: campaigning for Julian Assange's release. What was your reaction to
4:40
Speaker 7: the news and what has been the reaction in his
4:42
Speaker 7: native Australia.
4:45
Speaker 8: Well, there are millions of Australians with a tear in
4:47
Speaker 8: their eye at the moment that thought that Julian will
4:49
Speaker 8: come home. And I know that was very much to
4:51
Speaker 8: fill any in my office and many of the close
4:55
Speaker 8: supporters of Julian. You know, his brother has been, you know,
4:58
Speaker 8: constantly campaigned, and his dad has been constantly campaign and
5:01
Speaker 8: his wife and his kids, and they've been joined by
5:04
Speaker 8: millions of Australians who are just so glad that this
5:08
Speaker 8: terrible saga will finally come to an end and Julian
5:10
Speaker 8: will be able to come home and you know, spend
5:13
Speaker 8: that time with his family, go for bushwalk, maybe have
5:16
Speaker 8: a barbecue and go to the beach, because he deserves that.
5:22
Speaker 7: His mother said in a statement, this shows the importance
5:26
Speaker 7: and power of quiet diplomacy. Have you spoken to his family.
5:32
Speaker 8: Well, I mean obviously his family is in close contact
5:35
Speaker 8: with not just myself but with others, his brother and
5:38
Speaker 8: his dad in particular, and the courage of his wife,
5:42
Speaker 8: Sella has been extraordinary. Yes, it is about quiet diplomacy,
5:47
Speaker 8: but I think it's far more about millions of ordinary
5:49
Speaker 8: people across the planet who actually prize truth telling, who
5:53
Speaker 8: think it's important that governments are held to account. That
5:56
Speaker 8: militaries are held to account and they rate WikiLeaks and
6:01
Speaker 8: what Julian Assange has done. Truth telling can be very
6:03
Speaker 8: inconvenient for people in power, but Julian Assange stands for
6:07
Speaker 8: that principle that a truth can be more powerful than
6:11
Speaker 8: any government.
6:14
Speaker 7: He has managed to wait out the US Department of Justice.
6:18
Speaker 7: I wonder if you have any insights into this plea
6:20
Speaker 7: deal and do you think it's a case of the
6:23
Speaker 7: Biden administration wanting to put this to bed, a saga
6:28
Speaker 7: that is dragged out for too long. As we heard
6:30
Speaker 7: from the Australian Prime Minist Anthony Albanesi.
6:34
Speaker 8: Well, I think this in part reflects the fact that
6:37
Speaker 8: people in Washington from across the Isle, and not just Democrats,
6:40
Speaker 8: but across the Isle and realize that it's important to
6:44
Speaker 8: stand up for brave reporting. It's important to stand up
6:48
Speaker 8: to the ability of people to hold governments to account.
6:52
Speaker 8: As an Australian senator, I never thought it was legitimate
6:56
Speaker 8: that the United States government could seek to prosecute an
6:59
Speaker 8: Australian's citizen who was never on US soil, for the
7:03
Speaker 8: so called crime of sharing the secrets of the United
7:06
Speaker 8: States military. What Julian Assan showed was some pretty awful,
7:11
Speaker 8: appalling instances of the United States military in Iraq, in
7:15
Speaker 8: a war which my government was complicit in and also
7:17
Speaker 8: involved in incidents like the collateral murder video. I don't
7:21
Speaker 8: believe that it was ever a legitimate act from the
7:24
Speaker 8: United States government to seek to prosecute an Australian citizen
7:28
Speaker 8: who was not on US soil, who had no connection
7:30
Speaker 8: with the United States for sharing that information. And I
7:33
Speaker 8: am very glad that Julian is finally able to come home.
7:38
Speaker 1: This story basically is another example of the weakness of
7:42
Speaker 1: the Biden administration and the Biden Department of Justice saying, Hey,
7:47
Speaker 1: you've been avoiding responsibility for long enough. That fine, we
7:51
Speaker 1: just want to move on from this. That is not
7:55
Speaker 1: a reason to move on from this. Join as signs rogue.
8:01
Speaker 1: He stole classified documents in state secrets and released them
8:04
Speaker 1: on the internet. That is not a hero. Are there
8:08
Speaker 1: some of the things they released that you could make
8:10
Speaker 1: an argument that we should know about and shouldn't have
8:12
Speaker 1: been hidden from us. Yeah, you can make that argument.
8:17
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that that argument is valid. It doesn't
8:23
Speaker 1: mean that you should be able to just go rogue
8:25
Speaker 1: and start releasing secrets on the internet the way that
8:28
Speaker 1: he has. That's the problem. Juliana Massage is now a
8:34
Speaker 1: free man, that's right, a free man. He can go
8:38
Speaker 1: about his business. He is going to plead guilty to
8:42
Speaker 1: one count in this country. And so now you're supposed
8:45
Speaker 1: to be very, very very excited about this, right like
8:49
Speaker 1: this is great news. Sons released from prison after a
8:53
Speaker 1: US plea deal, ending this year's long saga. The latest
8:58
Speaker 1: coming from moments ago, Good Evening.
9:03
Speaker 4: After years of imprisonment and appeals, Julian Asange has left
9:07
Speaker 4: the UK after agreeing to a plea deal with US authorities.
9:12
Speaker 4: The Wikileik's founder was facing extradition to the US over
9:15
Speaker 4: the publication of hundreds of thousands of classified US military
9:19
Speaker 4: documents detailing America's wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. He had
9:24
Speaker 4: been facing eighteen espionage charges. Instead, he'll plead guilty to
9:29
Speaker 4: a single criminal charge, allowing him to walk free and
9:32
Speaker 4: return to Australia as a convicted felon Under heavy secrecy.
9:37
Speaker 4: Assande was freed on bail from Belmarsh Prison in London
9:40
Speaker 4: on Monday. He left the country hours later from Stansted
9:44
Speaker 4: Airport aboard a private jet. This afternoon, his aircraft made
9:49
Speaker 4: a refueling stop in Bangkok en route to Saipan, the
9:52
Speaker 4: capital of the US territory of the Northern Mariana Islands,
9:56
Speaker 4: where tomorrow's sentencing hearing will take place.
10:00
Speaker 9: Release the first steps towards freedom. This video, provided by
10:05
Speaker 9: Wiki leaks Juliana Sange finally out of his maximum security cell.
10:12
Speaker 9: His wife had recorded this message last week.
10:15
Speaker 10: This period of our lives, I'm confident now has come
10:19
Speaker 10: to an end, and I think that by this time
10:22
Speaker 10: next week Julian will be free. Things are moving very
10:25
Speaker 10: quickly and it's very difficult for us to plan or
10:29
Speaker 10: even play out the next few hours and days.
10:33
Speaker 9: Developments coming at lightning speed. News just breaking of a
10:37
Speaker 9: plea deal when it was revealed Julianassange had already been
10:41
Speaker 9: released from Belmarsh Prison in London, where he was held
10:45
Speaker 9: in a cell twenty three hours a day for the
10:48
Speaker 9: last five years.
10:49
Speaker 11: Corstal Julian, of course, has been to deprive of freedom
10:54
Speaker 11: for all these years, in the battle for journalistic freedom,
10:58
Speaker 11: freedom to publish, foundation of democracy.
11:01
Speaker 9: The Prime Minister had lobbied the US President directly during
11:05
Speaker 9: his state visit last year Australia's leaders had joined on
11:09
Speaker 9: the floor of Parliament to call for his release, in
11:12
Speaker 9: a rare show of bipartisanship.
11:15
Speaker 12: Will this is a welcome development. We recognize that these
11:18
Speaker 12: proceedings are crucial and they're.
11:20
Speaker 9: Delicate, repeating the diplomatic entreaty that's been used before the
11:24
Speaker 9: cameras and behind closed doors.
11:27
Speaker 12: Regardless of the views that people have about mister Osane's activities,
11:32
Speaker 12: the cases dragged on for too long. There's nothing to
11:36
Speaker 12: be gained by his continued incarceration, and we want him
11:39
Speaker 12: brought home to Australia.
11:40
Speaker 11: We think the UK and US justice systems should be
11:43
Speaker 11: respected and we welcome the fact that.
11:45
Speaker 13: Mister Sannge's guilty plea has allowed for him to be
11:49
Speaker 13: released early.
11:50
Speaker 9: Former Deputy Prime Minister Barnaby Joyce was among a cross
11:53
Speaker 9: bench group who were the loudest lobbyists working with US
11:57
Speaker 9: Congress to apply pressure.
11:59
Speaker 8: Everybody gets point where you say I think that's enough,
12:01
Speaker 8: I think they'll do.
12:03
Speaker 12: And for my part is well, I don't think should
12:06
Speaker 12: ever have been there if.
12:07
Speaker 8: He'd left it to the legal system, and it's highly
12:10
Speaker 8: likely that Julian would be grinding his way through years
12:13
Speaker 8: more of legal process and on his way to the
12:15
Speaker 8: United States to face a secret a secret trial and
12:20
Speaker 8: potentially years in jail.
12:21
Speaker 9: The Republican firebrand Thomas Massey among those on Capitol Hill
12:25
Speaker 9: in Washington who've been agitating for action. His liberation is
12:30
Speaker 9: great news, but it's a travesty that he's already spent
12:33
Speaker 9: so much time in jail. Obama, Trump and Biden should
12:37
Speaker 9: never have pursued this prosecution.
12:40
Speaker 14: It has been a case that has cast a very
12:43
Speaker 14: long shadow over press freedom globally.
12:46
Speaker 9: In a case that's never been simple or straightforward, the
12:49
Speaker 9: expected final chapter to play out in a tiny island
12:53
Speaker 9: courtroom before Judge Ramona Manglona. The Pacific island of Saipan
12:59
Speaker 9: on US soil is known for its tranquil beaches, about
13:02
Speaker 9: to be at the ebby center of a protracted global saga.
13:06
Speaker 14: Julian's effectively had to pede guilty to an activity that's
13:11
Speaker 14: the kind of activity that journalists globally perform day in
13:16
Speaker 14: day out. It really has exposed that use and abuse
13:20
Speaker 14: of national security type laws to silence journalists who would
13:24
Speaker 14: seek to expose crimes committed by governments.
13:28
Speaker 9: Julia Sanz touched down in Bangkok late this afternoon, the
13:32
Speaker 9: global movement still on edge, once again seeking the mercy
13:38
Speaker 9: of the courts.
13:39
Speaker 4: And Chief political correspondent Anna Henderson joins me now from Canberra.
13:43
Speaker 4: Good evening, Anna, this certainly came out of the blue.
13:46
Speaker 4: Can you shed any light on the process of how
13:48
Speaker 4: it happened?
13:50
Speaker 9: Well, Catalina, of course, there had been some discussions as
13:53
Speaker 9: early as last year, sort of signals being sent out
13:56
Speaker 9: from the US about the potential that there could be
13:58
Speaker 9: a plea deal on the TI and certainly when it
14:02
Speaker 9: came to waking up this morning and this news unfolding,
14:05
Speaker 9: it really was quite a surprise that sudden things to
14:08
Speaker 9: be on the precipice of freedom and a life. Back
14:11
Speaker 9: in Australia, we know that the UK High Commissioner, Stephen Smith,
14:15
Speaker 9: a former senior Cabinet minister for the Labor Party, is
14:19
Speaker 9: the UK High Commissioner. He was on the plane with
14:22
Speaker 9: Julian Assange, we're told as he departed. We also know
14:25
Speaker 9: that in Washington, another key kind of player in the
14:28
Speaker 9: background is Kevin Rudd, former Labor Prime Minister and the
14:32
Speaker 9: ambassador there for the US. We understand that behind the
14:36
Speaker 9: scenes he has certainly been looking at ways that he
14:39
Speaker 9: can really advance the case of Julian Assange with the
14:42
Speaker 9: US Department of Justice and other authorities that had some
14:46
Speaker 9: sway here. This moved from a press freedom issued in
14:49
Speaker 9: Australia to a political issue. We saw the bipartisanship coming forward,
14:53
Speaker 9: and then it's really become an issual of diplomacy between
14:56
Speaker 9: Australia and the US. And certainly, while there are some
14:59
Speaker 9: deep reservation about how Julian Esane made these decisions on
15:03
Speaker 9: his way through to publishing this material, at this point
15:06
Speaker 9: in time in this Parliament, there are very few members
15:10
Speaker 9: of this building who are not really celebrating this decision tonight.
15:15
Speaker 4: Thank you for your analysis, Anna Henderson.
15:18
Speaker 1: So you can understand why they're so excited about this
15:22
Speaker 1: in Australia because he didn't share state secrets about Australia.
15:28
Speaker 1: This is a guy that shared state secrets about America.
15:33
Speaker 1: So they're not focused on the threat to national security.
15:39
Speaker 1: They're also not focused on who's going to do this
15:41
Speaker 1: next and the copycats because now there's kind of a
15:45
Speaker 1: game plan for this, like how do you pull this off?
15:47
Speaker 1: What do you do if you're going to do this,
15:50
Speaker 1: how do you go about doing it like there's a
15:52
Speaker 1: real clear, kind of now game plan for this, Like
15:55
Speaker 1: this is the one two three punch, this is how
15:58
Speaker 1: you do it. This is how you pull it off off.
16:01
Speaker 1: If you're gonna do it, this is how you get
16:02
Speaker 1: away with it. Yeah, you might have some years that
16:05
Speaker 1: you are in you know, like in in exile. But
16:10
Speaker 1: if you're a narcissist like Joannasage was standing out there
16:13
Speaker 1: like he's some do gooder, some god on the Ecuadorian
16:19
Speaker 1: balcony in the UK, then I think people think this
16:23
Speaker 1: guy is an amazing guy and and and some sort
16:27
Speaker 1: of hero there. It's one thing to do a story
16:31
Speaker 1: to expose things. It's another thing to just blatantly just
16:34
Speaker 1: drop hundreds of thousands of classified documents the way that
16:39
Speaker 1: he did. And and he's gonna walk away from this,
16:43
Speaker 1: I think, acting like he is a god. And he's
16:47
Speaker 1: going to walk around like he's a celebrity, and he
16:50
Speaker 1: is going to empower others to steal state secrets and
16:53
Speaker 1: publish them. I don't know if that is what we
16:57
Speaker 1: want in the world, but the if I an administration
17:00
Speaker 1: has decided okay, fine, let's let this end. Let's let
17:04
Speaker 1: the saga end, let's let him walk free, and that's
17:07
Speaker 1: exactly what's happened.
17:09
Speaker 15: Lee.
17:09
Speaker 1: He's saying he undermined the security of the United States
17:12
Speaker 1: of America, violated the laws of the US.
17:14
Speaker 13: Listen Prank Center for Rhode Island, Jack Reid, he's a
17:17
Speaker 13: chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee. It's good to
17:19
Speaker 13: see you, Senator, Thank you for coming in. Julian assand
17:22
Speaker 13: a free man likely to avoid any prison time in
17:26
Speaker 13: the United States. It's a far cry from the charges
17:28
Speaker 13: that have been brought against him. What's your reaction to
17:31
Speaker 13: this final twist.
17:33
Speaker 6: Well, my reaction is that he clearly stated he was guilty.
17:38
Speaker 16: That all of the obstrucation, all of the deviation over many,
17:43
Speaker 16: many years and hiding in embassies, that's over. He's come
17:47
Speaker 16: forward and said, yes, I am guilty. I violated the law.
17:50
Speaker 16: The issue of custod I think is less important than
17:53
Speaker 16: his unconditional declaration of his guilt.
18:00
Speaker 13: I mean, because look, this involved one of the largest
18:02
Speaker 13: leagues of confidential US military information in history. He's celebrated
18:07
Speaker 13: by some for his work, hated by others as endangering
18:11
Speaker 13: Americans and those who worked with Americans in these conflicts.
18:14
Speaker 13: What do you think of the man in his work
18:17
Speaker 13: after all of this. You know, he defends himself and
18:21
Speaker 13: says he should be afforded First Amendment free speech privileges
18:26
Speaker 13: that other journalists should be afforded. Others say he's done,
18:29
Speaker 13: he's gone way too far and didn't too much damage.
18:32
Speaker 13: What do you think.
18:34
Speaker 6: He violated laws?
18:35
Speaker 16: And I'd say it's again, I think his unqualified plea
18:39
Speaker 16: of guilty should settle this matter.
18:43
Speaker 6: When he faced real trial, there were no.
18:46
Speaker 16: Adequate defenses that he could find, and he simply admitted, yes,
18:49
Speaker 16: I'm guilty.
18:50
Speaker 6: He undermined the security of the United States.
18:52
Speaker 16: He did it systematically, he did it for his own gratification,
18:56
Speaker 16: self promotion, etc.
18:59
Speaker 6: And that the guilty police speaks volumes.
19:05
Speaker 1: That's a democratic center. Jack Reid saying that I rarely
19:08
Speaker 1: say I agree with Democrats on things of national security
19:12
Speaker 1: US who were on the opposite side. I couldn't agree
19:14
Speaker 1: more in this one. And what was just said there
19:18
Speaker 1: and this was a deal that was done that's going
19:20
Speaker 1: to put American lives at risk. I am frustrated by
19:26
Speaker 1: this because it's another example of the Democrats like, let's
19:30
Speaker 1: just move on, right, It's been long enough let's get
19:33
Speaker 1: past this, right, like like let's like let's just let's
19:36
Speaker 1: just move on past it, act like it's not really happening.
19:42
Speaker 1: And it was something that was so far in the past.
19:46
Speaker 1: Who really cares, right, Like, like like who cares? Like,
19:50
Speaker 1: this's just was okay, it's it's it's in the past.
19:54
Speaker 1: Can can I also remind you, guys the story, and
19:57
Speaker 1: this is I think important. At the broadest level, Joinisage
20:04
Speaker 1: outed our operations how they worked in Iraq and Afghanistan.
20:10
Speaker 1: He also named the informants that we were using and
20:13
Speaker 1: that had some horrific effects. It exposed them number one
20:19
Speaker 1: to being hunted down and murdered famously. When he was
20:23
Speaker 1: asked about this, he said that those Afghans were traders
20:26
Speaker 1: to their countries, so f them, they deserve it. It
20:32
Speaker 1: also signaled to everyone in those countries and beyond that
20:36
Speaker 1: we can't keep our secrets, so don't help America. It's
20:39
Speaker 1: too big of a risk. It made operations more dangerous
20:45
Speaker 1: for our troops and undoubtedly led to more injuries and
20:48
Speaker 1: deaths because people stopped working with the United States of America.
20:52
Speaker 1: Now you also go to the second part of that,
20:57
Speaker 1: all right, and it goes back to this liberal psycho
21:03
Speaker 1: freak ecosystem that we operate in.
21:06
Speaker 6: The man who leaked to.
21:07
Speaker 1: Juliana Sage was a man by the name of Bradley
21:10
Speaker 1: Manning who was convicted under the espionage jack but he
21:14
Speaker 1: became a hero of the left because he became trans
21:17
Speaker 1: and then he was at release by Barack Obama. Manning
21:22
Speaker 1: is the definition of a trader, and Americans shouldn't be
21:28
Speaker 1: on the creepy side of a super creepy asset who
21:33
Speaker 1: published the trader's work. These people are not heroes, they
21:40
Speaker 1: are villains. Now, I understand why other countries may say, hey,
21:43
Speaker 1: we love getting American secrets and seeing how you guys work.
21:46
Speaker 1: And that's why in Austray, in other countries they're like,
21:49
Speaker 1: oh yeah, like we like this, right, we like seeing
21:52
Speaker 1: how America works behind the scenes. It doesn't mean that
21:57
Speaker 1: it's the right thing. It doesn't mean that it's good
22:01
Speaker 1: for this country. And that is the point that I
22:05
Speaker 1: think should be brought up here. There's a very interesting,
22:09
Speaker 1: by the way, new poll that goes back to the
22:12
Speaker 1: mentality of Americans right now. They're concerned about the economy,
22:16
Speaker 1: they're concerned about national security, they're really concerned about inflation,
22:21
Speaker 1: and Democrats have had have tried to tell Americans that
22:26
Speaker 1: if Donald Trump gets re elected, that he is a
22:29
Speaker 1: threat to democracy.
22:30
Speaker 10: Now.
22:30
Speaker 1: I could play you a montage of this, but I
22:33
Speaker 1: think you guys have heard it enough from the left
22:35
Speaker 1: over and over again. They're like, oh, Donald Trump's threat
22:37
Speaker 1: to democracy. He will in this country as we know
22:39
Speaker 1: it if he gets if he gets elected again, well,
22:42
Speaker 1: this country will be unrecognizable. Right, it's a threat to democracy.
22:46
Speaker 1: He's a threat to democracy. Everything's a threat to democracy.
22:48
Speaker 1: If there's a Republican's a Republican next to a person's name.
22:55
Speaker 1: That rhetoric seems to have now backfired in a major way.
23:01
Speaker 1: A Washington Post poll, not a conservative publication, This is
23:07
Speaker 1: the I would say, communist Washington Post has now come
23:12
Speaker 1: out with a shock poll that Donald Trump is stronger
23:15
Speaker 1: than Joe Biden on the issue of protecting the democracy.
23:21
Speaker 1: This is very interesting. Now David Axerod went on TV
23:27
Speaker 1: and is trying to now flip this because he was
23:29
Speaker 1: one of those guys like, oh, this is a threat
23:31
Speaker 1: to democracy, right, Donald Trump's a threat to democracy. Now
23:34
Speaker 1: he's basically saying that if you're worried about a democracy.
23:37
Speaker 1: You're a rich white person, and that's a conversation that
23:41
Speaker 1: you have at the dinner table as a rich white
23:43
Speaker 1: person trying to flip the narrative.
23:45
Speaker 17: Listen, Look, I've said before, I mean, I'm Jake, you
23:49
Speaker 17: know this. I'm the son of a Jewish refugee from
23:52
Speaker 17: Eastern Europe and I still love this democracy and I
23:57
Speaker 17: think this is a central But I've also said, if
24:02
Speaker 17: you are talking about democracy over the dinner table, it's
24:05
Speaker 17: probably because you don't have to worry about the cost
24:08
Speaker 17: of the food on your dinner table.
24:11
Speaker 6: Wow.
24:12
Speaker 1: So that's a pretty big change, right, If you're talking
24:15
Speaker 1: about democracy over the dinner table, it's probably because you
24:17
Speaker 1: don't have to worry about the cost of food on
24:20
Speaker 1: your dinner table. So, in other words, he's saying democracy
24:23
Speaker 1: is for rich people. Now, that is very different from
24:28
Speaker 1: what the left has been saying about this issue, like
24:31
Speaker 1: extremely different. Let me just remind you of Hillary Clinton
24:35
Speaker 1: when she was doing an interview recently.
24:37
Speaker 18: Alito struck me almost immediately upon sitting down to talk
24:43
Speaker 18: with him as a radical, as a fanatic about his
24:50
Speaker 18: views of culture and the role of religion in our
24:53
Speaker 18: society and his religion not maybe yours or mind marks,
24:57
Speaker 18: but his religion. And I found him scary and I
25:02
Speaker 18: said so on the floor of the Senate when I
25:04
Speaker 18: voted against him.
25:05
Speaker 1: So now we're going back to we're going to undermine
25:07
Speaker 1: people that actually stand up for democracy, right, And you
25:10
Speaker 1: notice the switch here. Michael Cohen, by the way, on MSNBC,
25:15
Speaker 1: this is the guy that stole from Donald Trump. This
25:17
Speaker 1: is a guy that's a convicted felon. This is a
25:19
Speaker 1: guy that lied in court and has been to jail.
25:23
Speaker 1: But he's the favorite love child of the of the left.
25:28
Speaker 1: They're obsessed, They are absolutely obsessed with with Michael Cohen
25:35
Speaker 1: because he hates Trump. He has Trump derangement syndrome. And
25:40
Speaker 1: he goes on MSNBC and says this about the judge
25:44
Speaker 1: partially lifting Trump's hush money gag order, which is a
25:48
Speaker 1: victory for Donald Trump.
25:50
Speaker 19: An update out of the New York hush money election
25:52
Speaker 19: interference case. Today, Judge Wanbershawn partially lifting that gag order
25:57
Speaker 19: placed upon Donald Trump, the disgrace. Now k only convicted
26:00
Speaker 19: ex president is able to comment on the witnesses who
26:03
Speaker 19: testified against him in that case. Witnesses like his former
26:07
Speaker 19: attorney Michael Cohen and the woman Cohen paid the hush
26:10
Speaker 19: money to Stormy Daniels. Judge Marschawn did not lift the
26:13
Speaker 19: part of the order barring Trump from going after court staff,
26:16
Speaker 19: individual prosecutors, and family members of any council staff member,
26:21
Speaker 19: the court, or the district Attorney. That part stays in
26:24
Speaker 19: place until Trump's sentencing on July eleventh. Michael Cohen's response
26:28
Speaker 19: to this quote. For the past six years, Donald and
26:31
Speaker 19: his accolytes have been making constant negative statements about me.
26:34
Speaker 19: Donald's failed strategy of discrediting me so that he can
26:38
Speaker 19: avoid accountability did not work then and won't work now.
26:41
Speaker 6: Joining us.
26:43
Speaker 19: Former Trump fixer and attorney Michael Cohen host of the
26:46
Speaker 19: Maya Kulpa and Political Beatdown podcast. He is the author
26:49
Speaker 19: of the Book's Revenge, How Donald Trump weaponized the US
26:53
Speaker 19: Department of Justice against his critics and disloyal memoir Now
26:58
Speaker 19: classic both of them. Michael Cohen, how are you doing
27:01
Speaker 19: and how are you feeling about this gaggarder being lifted
27:04
Speaker 19: by the way?
27:04
Speaker 15: I love this so like?
27:05
Speaker 1: Oh, both classics. Now, Oh, let's just give you this
27:09
Speaker 1: amazing that knows they don't mention you're a convicted fellon
27:12
Speaker 1: that you stole money from Donald Trump and you had
27:14
Speaker 1: admit that under Oh don't forget you. No, no, no,
27:16
Speaker 1: you're a fixer. Like fixer is like the gangster word
27:19
Speaker 1: of the left. Now, like, oh, man, that guy is
27:21
Speaker 1: a fixer. Yeah, he's a fixer. That's how MSNBC introduces
27:27
Speaker 1: the guy. Keep listening.
27:29
Speaker 15: I'm hanging in there, and Nicole, you know, like I
27:31
Speaker 15: said before, for six years, he and his acolytes have
27:34
Speaker 15: been doing this. Let's not forget the number of members
27:38
Speaker 15: of Congress and other acolyte friends of Trumps that showed
27:43
Speaker 15: up to the courthouse when I was testifying, and the
27:46
Speaker 15: first chance that they had to go to run out
27:49
Speaker 15: to do Donald's bidding. They're right there in front of
27:52
Speaker 15: the camera, including people like the number two guy in
27:55
Speaker 15: our government, Maga Mike Johnson, out there carrying Donald's water
28:00
Speaker 15: for him. So, look, is it stressful? Sure? Do I
28:05
Speaker 15: feel bad for myself and other witnesses that Donald intends
28:09
Speaker 15: to go after who knows, maybe he'll even do it
28:12
Speaker 15: at the upcoming debate. Yes, I feel bad for them.
28:15
Speaker 15: I feel bad for myself. But it's what can he
28:19
Speaker 15: say that he has not said already a thousand times.
28:22
Speaker 15: I mean, that's what Donald does. He repeats himself over
28:25
Speaker 15: and over and over. So what's he gonna say. Michael
28:28
Speaker 15: Cohen's a liar, Michael Cohen is a gloat. Michael Cohen
28:31
Speaker 15: didn't tell the truth. He's my lawyer. He did it
28:34
Speaker 15: all on his own. We all know the truth already.
28:37
Speaker 15: It's six years of me telling the same story and
28:40
Speaker 15: Donald can't keep track of what story. You know, he's
28:43
Speaker 15: saying next.
28:44
Speaker 1: This is a guy that's been convicted of lying and
28:47
Speaker 1: had him met under oath. Recently, he actually stole from
28:49
Speaker 1: Donald Trump, pocketed cash, tens of thousands of dollars, and
28:54
Speaker 1: MSNBC puts him up there, and now he says that
28:58
Speaker 1: Trump is dangerous to democracy, He's dangerous to just the world.
29:03
Speaker 1: So their's his one liner. So Democrats now seem to
29:07
Speaker 1: be very divided over this, right do we bring up
29:11
Speaker 1: like democracy or do we kind of just shut it down?
29:14
Speaker 1: That there's even a conversation of how do we save democracy?
29:19
Speaker 1: On pod Save America. It's a hardcore liberal podcast. Here's
29:22
Speaker 1: what they were saying recently.
29:24
Speaker 20: Why is there such a disconnect? Why do people think
29:26
Speaker 20: I mean, gosh by the way.
29:28
Speaker 1: This is Katie Kirk you're listening to in this voice.
29:30
Speaker 6: Keep listening.
29:31
Speaker 20: This is what's left a lot of people scratching their
29:34
Speaker 20: heads ever since twenty sixteen. Why do people think that
29:37
Speaker 20: Donald Trump is going to make their lives better? It
29:40
Speaker 20: is confounding to me.
29:43
Speaker 21: Yeah, what I've come to think is for a lot
29:47
Speaker 21: of voters, they don't think that either party or any
29:51
Speaker 21: politician is going to necessarily make their lives better. And
29:56
Speaker 21: so what they see in Donald Trump is someone who
29:58
Speaker 21: is just going to smash the system. And that makes
30:02
Speaker 21: them feel good, right, because it like, well, at least
30:04
Speaker 21: he's gonna at least he's my guy. He's going to
30:06
Speaker 21: like fight for me where he can, and I don't
30:08
Speaker 21: necessarily expect him to help me. But you know, he's also,
30:12
Speaker 21: as Tommy was saying, he's very good at blaming others.
30:15
Speaker 16: Right.
30:16
Speaker 21: And so if Donald Trump tells you, well, you know,
30:19
Speaker 21: you would you'd be making more and you we'd have
30:22
Speaker 21: more jobs. If we just got rid of all these
30:25
Speaker 21: undocumented immigrants, then your life would be better. If we
30:28
Speaker 21: just cleaned up the crime and we got tough and
30:30
Speaker 21: let the police get tough on crime in these cities,
30:33
Speaker 21: your life would be better. And you know, unlike even
30:37
Speaker 21: Mitt Romney or the Republicans of yesteryear, Donald Trump doesn't
30:41
Speaker 21: talk a lot about giving huge tax cuts to corporations,
30:45
Speaker 21: giving huge tax cuts to the wealthy, at least not publicly,
30:47
Speaker 21: not publicly, right, No, that's all in their agenda fundraisers. Yeah,
30:50
Speaker 21: but they have. You know, Trump has taught most of
30:52
Speaker 21: the Republican Party to sort of hide the economic agenda
30:56
Speaker 21: that is not very popular with most people in this country,
31:00
Speaker 21: and to really lean on sort of the cultural resentment.
31:03
Speaker 21: The racial resentment is enophobia that does unfortunately work with
31:08
Speaker 21: a lot of you know, working class and middle class
31:11
Speaker 21: people of all races.
31:12
Speaker 1: By the way, by the way, they hate you. You
31:15
Speaker 1: hear that how to save democracy?
31:17
Speaker 13: Right?
31:18
Speaker 1: Is the conversation they're having, Like, well, how is he
31:21
Speaker 1: getting away with this? Well, he really hates you, you know,
31:23
Speaker 1: he really just stands up for the big corporations. Okay,
31:27
Speaker 1: show me the evidence that that's what he did during
31:29
Speaker 1: the four years when he was actually the president. Well,
31:31
Speaker 1: if you tell people to hate immigrants and their life
31:34
Speaker 1: will be better off, they'll believe you. When did he
31:36
Speaker 1: say that? He's saying you can come into this country legally.
31:40
Speaker 1: But he's also said that you don't get rewarded for
31:42
Speaker 1: breaking American laws. So he's a law and order guy.
31:45
Speaker 1: And where they say, oh, well, that's that's, you know,
31:47
Speaker 1: xenophobic and this is but he's taught them to be
31:51
Speaker 1: quiet on that right, not talk about that. That's that's
31:55
Speaker 1: where you're just going to have to be quiet. So
31:58
Speaker 1: I go back to this poll. This poll that has
32:01
Speaker 1: just come out is the poll that Democrats are now
32:04
Speaker 1: going to freak out over internally going into this debate,
32:08
Speaker 1: because what it's saying is former President Donald Trump is
32:11
Speaker 1: the strongest candidate to protect democracy. After the last year,
32:16
Speaker 1: Democrats have been saying that Donald Trump is a threat
32:19
Speaker 1: to democracy. Polling of six swing states that President Joe
32:24
Speaker 1: Biden won in twenty twenty now show that voters believe
32:27
Speaker 1: Trump is a greater defender of democracy than Joe Biden,
32:30
Speaker 1: outpacing the current president by a staggering double digit lead
32:35
Speaker 1: of eleven points. Here's the question, which candid do you
32:39
Speaker 1: think will do a better job of handling each of
32:42
Speaker 1: the following threats to democracy in the US? The Posts
32:46
Speaker 1: says in their question Trump forty four percent, Biden thirty
32:51
Speaker 1: three percent, neither sixteen percent, both seven percent. This was
32:56
Speaker 1: a big poll, by the way, It was a poll
32:58
Speaker 1: of more than three thousand and five hundred registered voters
33:02
Speaker 1: in Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin. So this
33:07
Speaker 1: is a poll now that Democrats like, holy crap, we
33:12
Speaker 1: screwed it up with Bidenomics. That's been a disaster with voters.
33:15
Speaker 1: They don't believe that it's working. They believe it's hurting them.
33:17
Speaker 1: And then we try to say, well, Donald Trump's a
33:19
Speaker 1: threat to democracy, and the voters actually smart enough to
33:22
Speaker 1: say no, no, no, we actually think that Donald Trump is
33:25
Speaker 1: better for democracy than the current president of the United
33:29
Speaker 1: States of America is. Make sure you share this with
33:33
Speaker 1: your family and friends on social media wherever you are
33:36
Speaker 1: in social media. Right it's a five star review and
33:39
Speaker 1: I will see you back here tomorrow.