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Plumbob Throwback: How The Sims 2 Invented Internet Culture (And Why It Still Hits Different) · The Plumbob Report

• 0:00
  [Becca Hartwell] Okay,
• 0:00
  [Becca Hartwell] Soul Soul Simmers, welcome back to the Plumbob Report.
• 0:03
  [Becca Hartwell] Okay,
• 0:03
  [Becca Hartwell] I need to nerd out for a second because this entire episode is giving main menu music energy,
• 0:09
  [Becca Hartwell] and I mean that in the best way possible.
• 0:11
  [Danny Reyes] Becca Hartwell said what she said,
• 0:15
  [Danny Reyes] and my meme account is already losing its mind.
• 0:18
  [Becca Hartwell] I did!
• 0:20
  [Becca Hartwell] So,
• 0:20
  [Becca Hartwell] um,
• 0:21
  [Becca Hartwell] The Sims franchise turns 25 this year, and I am still processing.
• 0:26
  [Becca Hartwell] that we're getting the Legacy Collection officially and I have an entire dissertation of thoughts.
• 0:32
  [Danny Reyes] Thoughts? Becca, you have a whole dissertation prepared and I am ready.
• 0:38
  [Becca Hartwell] Okay,
• 0:39
  [Becca Hartwell] fair.
• 0:40
  [Becca Hartwell] But like,
• 0:41
  [Becca Hartwell] this is genuinely a big deal.
• 0:43
  [Danny Reyes] Mm-hmm.
• 0:43
  [Becca Hartwell] We're talking about Sims 2 getting a second life?
• 0:46
  [Becca Hartwell] As someone who literally started playing this the day it launched,
• 0:50
  [Becca Hartwell] I am not okay about it in the best way possible.
• 0:54
  [Danny Reyes] I mean,
• 0:54
  [Danny Reyes] I'm also asking the hard question today.
• 0:57
  [Danny Reyes] Is this nostalgia actually real or are we all just coping with Sims 4's autonomy disasters and-
• 1:04
  [Danny Reyes] And decade-long load times.
• 1:07
  [Becca Hartwell] Danny Reyes cannot just...
• 1:10
  [Danny Reyes] I'm just saying what everyone's thinking.
• 1:12
  [Danny Reyes] My community has been saying this since the Rene announcement.
• 1:16
  [Becca Hartwell] Okay,
• 1:16
  [Becca Hartwell] okay,
• 1:17
  [Becca Hartwell] we are getting into that. We're also
• 1:19
  [Danny Reyes] Yeah.
• 1:19
  [Becca Hartwell] going deep on how Sims 2 basically invented content creation before YouTube even existed,
• 1:26
  [Becca Hartwell] and how that legacy still shapes what we're doing today.
• 1:31
  [Danny Reyes] Accidental Machinima Studio.
• 1:33
  [Danny Reyes] That Sim is absolutely not okay,
• 1:36
  [Danny Reyes] and honestly,
• 1:37
  [Danny Reyes] neither were any of us back then.
• 1:39
  [Becca Hartwell] In the Simstalgia zine, as a Gallery creator myself,
• 1:44
  [Becca Hartwell] seeing the community still pouring energy into celebrating Sims 2 like that,
• 1:48
  [Becca Hartwell] Living proof the heart never died.
• 1:51
  [Danny Reyes] So basically,
• 1:52
  [Danny Reyes] Simstalgia,
• 1:53
  [Danny Reyes] chaos,
• 1:54
  [Danny Reyes] Twenty-five years of catastrophic autonomy fails,
• 1:58
  [Danny Reyes] and Danny's unhinged hot takes.
• 2:03
  [Becca Hartwell] That's genuinely the episode right there.
• 2:06
  [Becca Hartwell] Peak Sims energy all around.
• 2:09
  [Danny Reyes] Let's get into it!
• 2:11
  [Becca Hartwell] Alright,
• 2:11
  [Becca Hartwell] we're kicking off with the Legacy Collection and the question every long time player is asking:
• 2:17
  [Becca Hartwell] Is this finally the Sims 2 tribute we actually deserved?
• 2:22
  [Becca Hartwell] We want to hear from you!
• 2:24
  [Becca Hartwell] Submit questions via the webform in the description or give us a call at seven four seven six seven seven one zero three seven and leave your question.
• 2:36
  [Becca Hartwell] Don't be shy!
• 2:38
  [Becca Hartwell] Sul sul. And also, what took so long?
• 2:41
  [Becca Hartwell] Twenty-five years and EA finally throws the community a bone.
• 2:45
  [Becca Hartwell] Motherlode energy right there.
• 2:46
  [Becca Hartwell] I'm laughing and we're already off the rails.
• 2:49
  [Becca Hartwell] Welcome back to the Plumbob Report,
• 2:51
  [Becca Hartwell] everyone.
• 2:52
  [Danny Reyes] I'm Danny,
• 2:53
  [Danny Reyes] I have not slept in like 30 hours,
• 2:55
  [Danny Reyes] and The Sims Legacy Collection is real and I'm absolutely not okay.
• 2:59
  [Danny Reyes] The chaos is unhinged.
• 3:03
  [Becca Hartwell] I absolutely got a little misty-eyed. Twenty-five years of memories for me, and we are diving deep today,
• 3:09
  [Becca Hartwell] Danny.
• 3:09
  [Danny Reyes] Like,
• 3:10
  [Danny Reyes] my brain cannot compute that.
• 3:12
  [Danny Reyes] I wasn't even in kindergarten when Sims 2 launched,
• 3:15
  [Danny Reyes] and I didn't discover the chaos until high school.
• 3:18
  [Danny Reyes] But the cultural moment?
• 3:20
  [Danny Reyes] Yeah,
• 3:21
  [Danny Reyes] I feel it now.
• 3:22
  [Becca Hartwell] And I was 10 years old in the year 2000,
• 3:24
  [Becca Hartwell] sitting in front of a family computer,
• 3:26
  [Becca Hartwell] watching my Sim set herself on fire,
• 3:29
  [Becca Hartwell] making mac and cheese.
• 3:31
  [Becca Hartwell] Devastated me for a week.
• 3:40
  [Becca Hartwell] We are absolutely talking proto content creators.
• 3:44
  [Becca Hartwell] That's next.
• 3:46
  [Becca Hartwell] Okay, I need to nerd out for a second,
• 3:48
  [Becca Hartwell] and I mean really nerd out, because this is the part I have been waiting to talk about since we started planning this episode.
• 3:54
  [Danny Reyes] Oh, now here we go. This is the deep dive energy I live for.
• 3:59
  [Becca Hartwell] So we teased it in the INTRO,
• 4:01
  [Becca Hartwell] this idea that Sims 2 players were proto-content creators before that word even existed.
• 4:07
  [Becca Hartwell] And like, I genuinely don't think people appreciate how revolutionary that actually was,
• 4:12
  [Becca Hartwell] especially if you weren't there in 2003 watching it happen in real time.
• 4:17
  [Danny Reyes] Break it down for me.
• 4:19
  [Becca Hartwell] So, Sims 2 shipped with this in-game camera system.
• 4:23
  [Becca Hartwell] You could control angles,
• 4:24
  [Becca Hartwell] set up cinematic shots,
• 4:26
  [Becca Hartwell] use lighting tools that wouldn't be standard in most games for years,
• 4:29
  [Danny Reyes] Wow.
• 4:30
  [Becca Hartwell] and the animations,
• 4:31
  [Becca Hartwell] the facial expressions,
• 4:33
  [Becca Hartwell] the character models had soul,
• 4:35
  [Becca Hartwell] genuine,
• 4:36
  [Becca Hartwell] readable emotion that actually communicated what they were feeling.
• 4:39
  [Becca Hartwell] It was revolutionary for a life sim.
• 4:42
  [Danny Reyes] Okay,
• 4:43
  [Danny Reyes] real talk.
• 4:44
  [Danny Reyes] Sims 2 had better facial expressions than half of modern AAA games,
• 4:48
  [Danny Reyes] and my 200K followers will back me up on this one.
• 4:52
  [Danny Reyes] I will absolutely die on that hill.
• 4:55
  [Becca Hartwell] You're absolutely not wrong.
• 4:57
  [Becca Hartwell] And that combination,
• 4:58
  [Becca Hartwell] the camera tools,
• 4:59
  [Becca Hartwell] the expressive animations,
• 5:01
  [Becca Hartwell] the sandbox storytelling,
• 5:02
  [Becca Hartwell] it turned the game into this accidental Machinima studio for everyday people.
• 5:07
  [Becca Hartwell] It was genius,
• 5:08
  [Becca Hartwell] honestly.
• 5:09
  [Danny Reyes] People were literally making full cinematic drama series with plot twists, music videos,
• 5:15
  [Danny Reyes] like legitimate screenwriting happening inside a game engine from 2004.
• 5:21
  [Becca Hartwell] With no monetization,
• 5:23
  [Becca Hartwell] no metrics,
• 5:24
  [Becca Hartwell] just vibes and drama,
• 5:26
  [Becca Hartwell] and people saying,
• 5:27
  [Becca Hartwell] imagine if we lost all this tomorrow.
• 5:30
  [Becca Hartwell] It slaps different.
• 5:32
  [Danny Reyes] Exactly,
• 5:33
  [Danny Reyes] and the styles of content Sims 2 enabled were so tied to that engine's specific strengths,
• 5:39
  [Danny Reyes] the dramatic close-ups,
• 5:40
  [Danny Reyes] the chaotic romance arcs that felt genuinely unscripted, build tours where the creator would actually stage a narrative through the lot design.
• 5:49
  [Danny Reyes] Sims 4 still hasn't quite captured that storytelling register,
• 5:52
  [Danny Reyes] and I think that's partly because the game wasn't designed for it the way Sims 2 was.
• 5:58
  [Becca Hartwell] Wait,
• 5:58
  [Becca Hartwell] really?
• 6:00
  [Becca Hartwell] Like, mechanically speaking?
• 6:03
  [Becca Hartwell] Because that's actually insane to think about.
• 6:06
  [Becca Hartwell] Yeah,
• 6:07
  [Becca Hartwell] I mean,
• 6:08
  [Becca Hartwell] Sims 4 Sims are expressive,
• 6:10
  [Becca Hartwell] but there's something flatter about some of the emotional beats that Sims 2 just...
• 6:22
  [Becca Hartwell] This is such a good pivot.
• 6:24
  [Becca Hartwell] So for anyone who doesn't know,
• 6:25
  [Becca Hartwell] Simstalgia is a community-made zine that's basically a love letter to this entire era.
• 6:32
  [Becca Hartwell] Fan art,
• 6:32
  [Becca Hartwell] essays,
• 6:33
  [Becca Hartwell] creator retrospectives from people who weren't there,
• 6:36
  [Becca Hartwell] and the fact that it exists that people are still pouring creative energy into celebrating Sims 2's cultural moment in 2025,
• 6:43
  [Becca Hartwell] as a gallery creator myself,
• 6:45
  [Becca Hartwell] that hits different.
• 6:46
  [Becca Hartwell] That's not nostalgia. That's people saying this mattered?
• 6:50
  [Becca Hartwell] And we're not letting it die.
• 6:52
  [Danny Reyes] That's not nostalgia tourism,
• 6:55
  [Danny Reyes] that's a living,
• 6:56
  [Danny Reyes] breathing community that absolutely refused to
• 7:00
  [Speaker 3] die.
• 7:00
  [Becca Hartwell] To let this era disappear.
• 7:01
  [Becca Hartwell] Full stop.
• 7:02
  [Danny Reyes] Exactly. The grassroots creative culture that Sims 2 built didn't just vanish.
• 7:07
  [Danny Reyes] It evolved into something living.
• 7:10
  [Danny Reyes] Modders,
• 7:10
  [Danny Reyes] gallery creators,
• 7:11
  [Danny Reyes] zine makers,
• 7:12
  [Danny Reyes] apparently podcast hosts now.
• 7:14
  [Danny Reyes] It's all the same DNA. Same passion.
• 7:17
  [Danny Reyes] Same I'm making this because I need to exist.
• 7:20
  [Becca Hartwell] The autonomy said, make something and share it. And the community said,
• 7:25
  [Becca Hartwell] yeah,
• 7:25
  [Becca Hartwell] Okay.
• 7:25
  [Becca Hartwell] Forever.
• 7:28
  [Danny Reyes] That's genuinely the most accurate thing you've ever said.
• 7:32
  [Becca Hartwell] I have my moments.
• 7:33
  [Becca Hartwell] Okay,
• 7:34
  [Becca Hartwell] but, and I say this as someone who genuinely loves all of this,
• 7:38
  [Becca Hartwell] can we talk about whether EA actually understood what they had?
• 7:43
  [Becca Hartwell] Because that feels extremely relevant to why the Legacy Collection exists right now.
• 7:49
  [Danny Reyes] Oh, that is a great segue because the Legacy Collection announcement is sending us signals about whether EA actually understands this history or if they're just now realizing the community was keeping their legacy breathing and we should absolutely dig into what's actually in that collection and what it signals about their vision moving forward.
• 8:10
  [Becca Hartwell] Yeah. Is it a love letter or is it a cash grab?
• 8:14
  [Becca Hartwell] Or, and I'm genuinely asking,
• 8:17
  [Becca Hartwell] is it EA finally admitting that the community was doing their job for them the whole time?
• 8:24
  [Danny Reyes] Honestly,
• 8:25
  [Danny Reyes] probably both,
• 8:26
  [Danny Reyes] but in ways that matter way more than people realize.
• 8:29
  [Danny Reyes] Let's dig into it.
• 8:31
  [Danny Reyes] Okay,
• 8:32
  [Danny Reyes] so we've been talking about what Sims 2 was.
• 8:35
  [Becca Hartwell] Mm-hmm.
• 8:36
  [Danny Reyes] Let's talk about what EA actually did with it.
• 8:40
  [Becca Hartwell] Right,
• 8:40
  [Becca Hartwell] the Legacy Collection, because my first reaction was,
• 8:44
  [Becca Hartwell] okay, honestly suspicious,
• 8:46
  [Becca Hartwell] and my entire meme account immediately flooded with, is this it?
• 8:51
  [Becca Hartwell] questions.
• 8:57
  [Danny Reyes] Okay, so we landed on both, and it doesn't matter,
• 9:01
  [Danny Reyes] last segment,
• 9:02
  [Danny Reyes] but I want to push one step further because I think the Legacy Collection sent a signal EA genuinely needs to hear.
• 9:09
  [Becca Hartwell] A signal.
• 9:09
  [Becca Hartwell] Okay.
• 9:10
  [Becca Hartwell] Okay. What's the actual signal here?
• 9:13
  [Danny Reyes] That depth matters.
• 9:15
  [Danny Reyes] Like, what made Sims 2 work wasn't just nostalgia bait,
• 9:19
  [Danny Reyes] it was the personality system actually forcing conflict,
• 9:23
  [Danny Reyes] Sims with opposing traits
• 9:24
  [Danny Reyes] frates genuinely disliked each other; there were real consequences,
• 9:29
  [Danny Reyes] memories that stuck with you; the game understood storytelling infrastructure.
• 9:34
  [Becca Hartwell] Right-my Sim (I named her after a very specific Letterboxd review,
• 9:38
  [Becca Hartwell] long story)
• 9:39
  [Becca Hartwell] she remembered being cheated on,
• 9:41
  [Becca Hartwell] for years.
• 9:42
  [Becca Hartwell] It haunted her.
• 9:43
  [Becca Hartwell] Sims four?
• 9:44
  [Becca Hartwell] My Sim watched her husband die and then autonomously made pancakes.
• 9:49
  [Becca Hartwell] Like,
• 9:49
  [Becca Hartwell] the grief system is
• 9:50
  [Becca Hartwell] is broken.
• 9:52
  [Danny Reyes] peak Sims,
• 9:53
  [Danny Reyes] honestly.
• 9:54
  [Danny Reyes] But that's exactly my point.
• 9:56
  [Danny Reyes] Sims 4 kind of flattened the emotional landscape.
• 9:59
  [Danny Reyes] Everyone's sort of fine all the time.
• 10:03
  [Becca Hartwell] Vibes-based gameplay.
• 10:04
  [Becca Hartwell] And vibes alone is just not enough, honestly.
• 10:07
  [Danny Reyes] Vibes-based, exactly.
• 10:09
  [Danny Reyes] And neighborhoods had stories in Sims 2.
• 10:12
  [Danny Reyes] Pleasantview wasn't just a backdrop.
• 10:14
  [Danny Reyes] It had drama woven into the DNA.
• 10:17
  [Danny Reyes] Before you even touched anything.
• 10:19
  [Becca Hartwell] Don Lothario was already a complete mess when you loaded in,
• 10:23
  [Becca Hartwell] like zero player effort required to create drama.
• 10:27
  [Becca Hartwell] The neighborhood had its own life.
• 10:30
  [Danny Reyes] He absolutely was a mess.
• 10:32
  [Danny Reyes] And that's the thing. That storytelling infrastructure,
• 10:36
  [Danny Reyes] the consequence-driven gameplay,
• 10:38
  [Danny Reyes] the neighborhood memory,
• 10:40
  [Danny Reyes] the personality friction,
• 10:41
  [Danny Reyes] Sims 4 just...
• 10:43
  [Danny Reyes] didn't carry that forward.
• 10:46
  [Danny Reyes] And I think that's what people miss most.
• 10:48
  [Becca Hartwell] So if EA is actually listening,
• 10:51
  [Becca Hartwell] and that's a big if,
• 10:52
  [Becca Hartwell] Becca,
• 10:53
  [Becca Hartwell] we've been screaming about autonomy fails for literal years.
• 10:57
  [Danny Reyes] I think they are.
• 10:58
  [Danny Reyes] I've met these devs at EA Play.
• 11:01
  [Danny Reyes] They genuinely care about this franchise.
• 11:03
  [Becca Hartwell] Okay.
• 11:04
  [Becca Hartwell] Okay,
• 11:05
  [Becca Hartwell] but what if they just don't act on it? What if this is just a one-time nostalgia flex and then back to the usual?
• 11:13
  [Danny Reyes] Well, then we keep yelling into the void lovingly.
• 11:16
  [Danny Reyes] But here's what I genuinely believe.
• 11:18
  [Danny Reyes] The re-release numbers,
• 11:20
  [Danny Reyes] the community response,
• 11:22
  [Danny Reyes] the Simstalgia zine absolutely blowing up, that's all data.
• 11:26
  [Danny Reyes] And EA reads data.
• 11:29
  [Becca Hartwell] Motherlode energy for The Sims to re-release, honestly.
• 11:33
  [Becca Hartwell] No notes.
• 11:35
  [Danny Reyes] That's exactly the energy.
• 11:37
  [Danny Reyes] And speaking of the community,
• 11:39
  [Danny Reyes] we have to...
• 11:40
  [Danny Reyes] have to give major credit to the Simstalgia scene team.
• 11:43
  [Danny Reyes] Like they kept the spirit alive,
• 11:45
  [Danny Reyes] kept it breathing before EA even remembered this game existed.
• 11:50
  [Becca Hartwell] Genuinely,
• 11:51
  [Becca Hartwell] fan projects,
• 11:52
  [Becca Hartwell] modders,
• 11:53
  [Becca Hartwell] legacy players running Sims 2 on literal duct tape and hope,
• 11:57
  [Becca Hartwell] that community is the entire reason there was nostalgia to capitalize on.
• 12:02
  [Becca Hartwell] EA didn't build this,
• 12:04
  [Becca Hartwell] they just woke up.
• 12:06
  [Danny Reyes] Hundred percent.
• 12:07
  [Danny Reyes] And if you're a new player just diving into the Legacy Collection for the first time,
• 12:11
  [Danny Reyes] okay,
• 12:12
  [Danny Reyes] I cannot help myself,
• 12:14
  [Danny Reyes] build tip incoming.
• 12:15
  [Becca Hartwell] Called it. Called it so hard.
• 12:21
  [Danny Reyes] Chocolate, start in Pleasantview.
• 12:23
  [Danny Reyes] Don't build from scratch yet.
• 12:25
  [Danny Reyes] Just live in the existing lots first.
• 12:28
  [Danny Reyes] Let the neighborhood tell you its story.
• 12:31
  [Danny Reyes] That's genuinely how Sims 2 is meant to be experienced.
• 12:35
  [Becca Hartwell] That is actually genuinely incredible advice.
• 12:39
  [Danny Reyes] Thank you.
• 12:40
  [Danny Reyes] And look,
• 12:41
  [Danny Reyes] whether you're Team Sims 2 forever or you're holding out hope for Sims 4's next chapter,
• 12:45
  [Danny Reyes] the fact that we're still having this conversation Twenty-five years later,
• 12:49
  [Danny Reyes] that's the real win.
• 12:51
  [Danny Reyes] That's what building dreams one tile at a time actually looks like.
• 12:56
  [Becca Hartwell] Soul, soul, and honestly,
• 12:58
  [Becca Hartwell] same energy.
• 13:00
  [Becca Hartwell] Same heart.
• 13:02
  [Speaker 4] That's the Plumbob Report for this week.
• 13:05
  [Speaker 4] Thank you all so much for being here with us.
• 13:08
  [Speaker 4] We'll see you next time.
• 13:09
  [Speaker 4] Happy Simming!
• 13:11
  [Becca Hartwell] And listen,
• 13:12
  [Becca Hartwell] don't let your Sims make pancakes unsupervised,
• 13:15
  [Becca Hartwell] don't let them drown mysteriously,
• 13:17
  [Becca Hartwell] and for the love of the Plumbob back up your saves.
• 13:21
  [Becca Hartwell] That's my PSA Bye.
• 13:23
  [Danny Reyes] OK,
• 13:24
  [Danny Reyes] Danny,
• 13:24
  [Danny Reyes] that was such a good episode.
• 13:26
  [Danny Reyes] Like, I'm genuinely so glad we got to go deep on this with you.
• 13:30
  [Becca Hartwell] I mean,
• 13:30
  [Becca Hartwell] I will die on that hill forever.
• 13:33
  [Becca Hartwell] Sims 2 facial expressions unmatched.
• 13:36
  [Becca Hartwell] My entire 200K followers would back me up. And honestly,
• 13:39
  [Becca Hartwell] we're all right.
• 13:41
  [Danny Reyes] Unmatched. And I think that's honestly the real takeaway here.
• 13:44
  [Danny Reyes] Sims 2 wasn't just nostalgia bait.
• 13:47
  [Danny Reyes] It was a genuine cultural moment.
• 13:50
  [Danny Reyes] And the Legacy Collection existing-that's proof the signal never died; people still care.
• 13:56
  [Becca Hartwell] The fans kept it alive!
• 13:57
  [Becca Hartwell] The modders kept it alive!
• 13:58
  [Speaker 4] Yes.
• 13:59
  [Becca Hartwell] EA just finally
• 14:00
  [Becca Hartwell] caught up and admitted what we already knew.
• 14:02
  [Danny Reyes] Right,
• 14:03
  [Danny Reyes] right.
• 14:04
  [Danny Reyes] Okay, if this episode sent you spiraling into a Sims 2 rabbit hole,
• 14:08
  [Danny Reyes] that's exactly what we intended.
• 14:11
  [Danny Reyes] Believe me,
• 14:11
  [Danny Reyes] I know the spiral.
• 14:13
  [Danny Reyes] I've been living in it since 2000.
• 14:15
  [Becca Hartwell] Zero regrets.
• 14:17
  [Danny Reyes] Sul Simmers, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
• 14:20
  [Danny Reyes] Drop us a review.
• 14:21
  [Danny Reyes] It genuinely helps other fans find us.
• 14:24
  [Becca Hartwell] And please share your wildest, most unhinged Sim stories with us on social at PlumbobReport.
• 14:31
  [Becca Hartwell] We read every single one.
• 14:34
  [Danny Reyes] Thanks for being here.
• 14:35
  [Danny Reyes] Building dreams one tile at a time.
• 14:38
  [Danny Reyes] We'll see you next time.
• 14:39
  [Becca Hartwell] Stay chaotic,
• 14:40
  [Becca Hartwell] Simmers. Here for the community chaos.
• 14:42
  [Becca Hartwell] Bye!