Latest / The Ben Ferguson Podcast / Inside El Salvador's CECOT Prison for MS-13 Gang Members, plus Stopping China from Having Control of the Panama Canal

Transcript

Inside El Salvador's CECOT Prison for MS-13 Gang Members, plus Stopping China from Having Control of the Panama Canal · The Ben Ferguson Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome in is verdical Senator Ted Cruz ben Ferguson with you.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: It's truly nice to have you with us wherever you
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: are around the country. We have got a lot to
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: chat about on today's show. As you, Centator, have been
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: on a codell in Latin America.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Well, that's exactly right. I left several days ago, spent
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: two days in El Salvador and then went to Panama
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: and went and toured the Panama Canal and l Salvador.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: I sat down with the president of El Salvador, President Bukelly,
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: had a one on one meeting with him. The results
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: he has produced are extraordinary. We talked about that on
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: Wednesday's podcast. How El Salvador went from having the highest
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: murder rate on planet Earth of one hundred murders per
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: one hundred thousand people, to the murder rate plummeting ninety
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: eight percent. Last year, the murder rate was one point
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: nine murders per one hundred thousand people, making it one
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: of the safest countries on Earth, and indeed significantly safer
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: than the United States. That result is extraordinary. And what
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: I did this week is I actually toured the Sea
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: Coot Prison, the prison where El Salvador is putting MS.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: Thirteen and BRO eighteen gang members. It was astonishing. I'm
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: going to bring you inside that prison. I'm going to
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: tell you exactly what I saw. I also spent a
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: day and a half in Panama meeting with senior government
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: officials in Panama and went and toured the Panama Canal,
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: saw firsthand how the Panama Canal operates, and saw one
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: of the two Chinese ports that is right at the
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: Pacific mouth of the Panama Canal. I'm going to tell
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: you what I saw on the ground and what the
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: real threat is to American national security and American commerce
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: from China having a decisive position on the Panama Canal
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: that we're going to bring inside.
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really incredible.
• 2:03
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  Speaker 1: All right, So center, let's start with a big part
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: of your trip. You mentioned in a moment ago. You
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: actually went in and saw the prison that everybody's been
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: talking about.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: Well, I did. The steacut prison El Salvador, built to
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: house the very worst gang members. It's a maximum security prison.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: It has the capacity of forty thousand prisoners, and they
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: built it with that capacity because that was their estimate
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: of the gang members that they were looking at that
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: they wanted to incapacitate. I drove from the capital city
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: since Salvador, it is forty five minutes to an hour
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: to get to the prison. I drove to the prison.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: One of the things that is striking as you're pulling
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: up to the prison that they instruct you turn your
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: cell phone on, put it on airplane mode. And the
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: reason is there are no cell phones and in fact,
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: they have jammers in the prison, and so unlike most prisons,
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: if not every prison on the planet where prisoners frequently
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: smuggle in cell phones, often with the complicity of prison guards,
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: at the Seacut prison, there are no cell phones. The
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: cell phones are jammed, and in fact, what the El
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: Salvador's government has done is imposed massive fines on the
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: cell phone companies. Even a single call goes through from
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: the prison, and so the cell phone companies to avoid
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: and the fines. If I remember correctly what the Justice
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: minister said to me, it is one hundred thousand dollars
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: per violation, so it can rack up very very quickly.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: Ten calls is a million bucks, which means the cell
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: phone companies don't want a single call coming out of
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: that prison, and as a result, the prison is totally
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: locked down.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: So you're hear something like that by the way, and
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: you sit there and you're like, wait, why aren't we
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: doing that here?
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: Like, why aren't we doing things like this to make
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: prison not like an easy place and to make sure
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: that exactly just mentioned this stuff doesn't happen in America's
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: I love when you hear other ideas from other countries
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: like this.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I have to admit I thought about the cell
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: phone blockers, and I've been supportive of legislation to increase
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: the punishment for having a cell phone in US prisons
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: because you end up having gangs and drugs, and many
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: of the worst criminals in America are operating out of
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: prisons and are inflicting enormous violence on civilian populations outside
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: of prison. And so that's certainly a lesson I think
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: we can learn in terms of how to be more
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: effective shutting off the means of communication.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: So you go from there, you see this, and then
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: where what happens next?
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: All right, So you drive up to, first of all,
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: a massive steel gate and concrete walls, concrete walls that
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: go up i'd say about thirty feet, and then on
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: top of the concrete walls is barbed wire, and then
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: on top of the barbed wire is electrified wire, so
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: it's an imposing front entrance that you come to it.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: You then go through these giant steel doors. You go
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: through a second set of giant steel doors you go in.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: It's very much at this prison like an airlock where
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: you go in. We were in a bus and we
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: got out of the bus and we went in where
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: they require every prison guard every day to go through
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: and they go through a metal detector. It's very much
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: like going into an airport where you go through a
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: metal detector. You scan any bag you have with you,
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: and then they have a scanner, an X ray machine
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: designed to find things that are even within body cavities,
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: if you've ingested anything. I mean it is it was
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: impressive technology that every guard is required to go through
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: every day when they walk in. I will say, they
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: didn't make me go through those skins, So I guess
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: that there are some benefits to being part of the
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: United States government. I was there with the Justice Minister
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: who was giving me the tour himself, so I guess
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: they were not terribly worried about my having swallowed balloons
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: with heroin in them, or having a shank and sealed somewhere.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: I had neither, but I was glad that they did
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: not check. So I went into the main prison and
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: you drive and you have a whole series that there's
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: a gate, there's another gate, and there's another gate, and
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: there are walls. It's a little bit like the opening
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: of Get Smart, where you go through gate after gate
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: after gate. Yeah, it's a whole series of walls and
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: barbed wire, and I mean it's it's imposing. I mean
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: it is not. It is designed so there ain't nobody
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: getting out. And I asked them if they had anyone escape.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: They they've never had anyone to escape. I believe them,
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: and I believe them because what I saw then, I've
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: never seen anything like this. So they have eight units
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: that are built. Each of the units is designed to
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: house five thousand prisoners. That's why the capacity is forty
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: thousand prisoners. They are at about fifty percent capacity right now.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: They're just under twenty thousand prisoners that are there right now.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: So I went into one of the eight units. In
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: that unit, they have a series of massive cells. Each
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: of the cells holds one hundred prisoners. Now, the cells
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: that hold one hundred prisoners, they have four sets of
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: long bunk beds that go up four levels high. So
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: these cells are I don't know, probably thirty feet up
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: in the air. I mean they're in terms of height,
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: they're high cells, and they have these bunk beds. The
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: bunk beds are made out of stainless steel. So the prisoners.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: You walk and you see a hundred prisoners sitting on
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: these bunk beds, and these bunk beds are stainless steel.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: They're no sheets, they're no blankets, they're no pillows. It
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: is one hundred prisoners. They're dressed in white. They're dressed
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: in white kind of loose fitting shirt shorts and T shirts,
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: and they are sitting there on these bunk beds four
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: levels up. So the fourth level up is I don't know,
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: it's probably it's north of twenty feet up. I mean
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: you have to climb up a ladder to get on it.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: And so you just see one hundred prisoners and you
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: have to envision almost all of these. So they're all adults.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: This prison does not have any juveniles. No one under
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: eighteen is there, and there are no women there. So
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: these are all men, and they're overwhelmingly young men. I
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: would say they're overwhelmingly eighteen to thirty five, and they're
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: all gang members. And there's no subtlety about this. In
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: fact that at one point in one of the cells
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: they had the prisoners come forward. They instructed them remove
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: their T shirts and you could see them remove their
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: T shirts and all of them had gang tattoos on them.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: And it wasn't subtle. It was a giant MS thirteen
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: like across their chest. I mean, it is not.
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: Right and presses.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: They're not trying to hide it.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: It was that there was no ambiguity. And the prisoners
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: twenty three hours a day they're in those cells, and
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: in front of the cells are prison guards, and the
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: prison guards are standing there holding machine guns watching them
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: through the front of the bars above the prison cell
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: is there's a whole level above the prison cell and
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: and it's basically bars on top as well, and so
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: their prison guards on top of the prison cell looking
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: down on them. So unlike you know, you and I
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: have both seen a lot of prison movies where people
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: are off in dark corners and doing things in their
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: cells where they can't be seen. Sure, these prisoners are
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: being monitored constantly. The lights are on twenty four hours
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: a day. They do not turn the lights off, and
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: they have prison guards with machine guns watching them twenty
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: four hours a day. They allow the prisoners out of
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: their cells for an hour a day, and they allow
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: them in small groups of about twenty, so it's not
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: very many. And the small groups come out and they
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: do thirty minutes of calisthenics, and the calisthenics are led
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: by a prison employee, and it's so they don't have
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: weight equipment or anything else, but they're doing kind of
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: stretches and jumping jacks and various calisthenics. And then they
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: have thirty minutes of religious instruction. And I asked, I said, okay,
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: are those optional mandatory? They said no, they're mandatory. Uh.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: And so that other than that one hour, the remaining
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: twenty three hours a day there in that cell. I
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: will tell you. I asked the justice minister, I asked
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: the head of the prison. It was also with me
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: in giving you the tour. I said, you know, I asked,
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: how much violence do you have? The answer was essentially
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: none that and you could see it. I mean, given the.
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: Prison, why is the consequences?
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: Explain the logic behind the reason why there's virtually none.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: Look, I don't know. I'm just telling you what they
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: told me. I asked. I asked about prison rape. Look on, tragically,
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: in virtually every prison on Earth, rape is a significant risk.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: It happens with with far too common frequency. They they
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: said it it didn't happen there, that they did not
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: deal with with prison rape. And I don't know that
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: I entirely believe that, but I got to say I
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: mostly believe that because prison rate normally occurs where you
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: have prisoners that are out of view of anyone and
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: able to be somewhere where someone can be the victim
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: of sexual assault. In this instance, when you have prison
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: guards with machine guns watching you at every moment, there's
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: not a lot of capacity to engage in an active violence.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: I want to go back to what you were talking about,
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: the conditions there and also the rules and how they're
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: running their prisons down there in a way that I'm
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: kind of jealous that we're not doing it here.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: Well, you mentioned that it is designed to make life unpleasant,
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: and I will say, look, it's clearly designed in capacity,
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: and it's doing that incredibly effectively. They've taken the murderers
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: off the streets, but it is also designed. Listen. I've
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: been to prisons before in Texas. I've been to the
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: prison in Huntsville. I've been a death row on Huntsville.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: When I was the Solicitor General of Texas, there were
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: multiple legal challenges to the method of capital punishment in
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: Texas and I was defending that. I was defending that
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: in federal court. So I felt an obligation that I
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: needed to go and personally observe an execution. That I
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: couldn't do my job effectively and litigate defending the method
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: that Texas used for capital punishment unless I observed it myself.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: So I went there. I was behind the scenes and
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: saw how capital punishment was executed. And I will tell you, look,
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: being in a Texas prison is no walk in a park,
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: to put it mildly, but it pales in comparison to
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: what I observed there. I have to say, I cannot
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: imagine life. It is hell on earth. It is you
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: are locked up every minute of the day. Now, you're
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: not subjective, assuming the reports from the head of the
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: prison is accurate, you're not subjected to violence and threat
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: and by the way, one of the things they do
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: so Previously, prisons had separated each gang, so they've sent
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: MS thirteen to one and eighteenth Street barrioed another. In
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: this instance, they don't do that. In fact, they mix
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: gang members, multiple gang members in the same cell. And
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: part of the reason for that is they said, look,
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: if you put all the MS thirteen gang members in
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: one prison, they end up operating the gang out of
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: there and it becomes a safe haven. And in this case,
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: and by the way, these gangs they're not just sort
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: of rivals. It's not like you know, the Yankees and
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: the Mets. I mean they are each other y. Yeah,
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: like if they see each other in the streets, they
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: opened fire and they're suddenly locked together in a cell.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: So the hundred prisoners in a cell and I saw
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: like lined up, you would seem the main ones were
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: MS thirteen and eighteenth Street Barrio and you would see
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: the tax and they're all together, and they had to
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: learn them like they're going to be locked up in
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: the same cage together for a long time. I saw
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: several prisoners. I'm going to tell you in a minute
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: about an extended conversation I had with an MS thirteen
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: gang member, which was chilling, but I will say I
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: saw several several prisoners. There was one they showed me
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: that had a prison sentence of over a thousand years wow.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: So he had been convicted of over six homicides, at
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: at least six. And one of the things that Justice
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: Minister said to me about MS thirteen, he said, in
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: the United States, to become an MS thirteen member, you
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: have to murder someone. That is the process of admission.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: You cannot be admitted to the gang if you don't
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: kill somebody. What the Justice Minister told me is an
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: El Salvador to be a member of the gang, you
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: had to commit ten murders. So one of the things
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: he described to me, he said, listen, these people are
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: serial killers. They are mass murderers. And the reason the
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: crime rate plummeted is because they took all the mass
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: murderers off the street. They took the gang members and
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: and and gang activity is essentially nonexistent. And so like
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: I like, I had dinner in down downtown at Saints
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: albat Or, a very nice restaurant, a state restaurant there,
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: and the folks I was having dinner with it was
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: a cabinet member. I was having dinner with and and
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: and she said, look, it used to be a few
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: years ago, nobody would come here at night because you
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: would be robbed, you would be kidnapped, you'd be murdered.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: And I'll tell you when I came to downtown, downtown
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: was beautiful that there were families, there were kids playing
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: like like it was transformation. And and this prison and
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: this zero tolerance they went after and they arrested, they
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: put in jail all the gang members and they said,
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: if you join the gang, it is a terror rist organization.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: To join the gang, you are a murderer and we
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: are taking you off the street. And the success of
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: it is incredible. But they gave me an opportunity to
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: visit with an MS thirteen gang member who's from Texas.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: And so they pulled him aside because he was from Texas,
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: and they said, you may, you may want to talk
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: with him, and so I did. I talked with him
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: for quite a bit of time. He was in his
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: early forties, he had lived much of his life in
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: the United States. We had perfect English, and he had
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: lived in Dallas for many years as an MS thirteen
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: gang member. And he described how he had grown up
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: in Virginia, and he'd lived in Virginia and Maryland and
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: DC and he said that then he became an MS
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: thirteen gang member when he was thirteen years old in
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: Falls Church, Virginia, and he described it. I said, well, how
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: did you come to be at this prison and he said, well,
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: I was deported so he was illegally in the United States.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: He said, I was deported. I was sent back to
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: El Salvador. And he said, I committed a homicide here.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: I was convicted of homicide. So he murdered someone in
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: Al Salvador, at least one person, and he admitted to it.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: He was not hiding it. He's like, yeah, I committed
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: a homicide and that's why I'm here. And I said, well,
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: did you commit crimes in the United States? He said yes,
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: yes I did. And I said, well, what crimes did
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: you commit? Did you commit murder in the United States?
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: And he wouldn't answer, and it was clear, look, he
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: hadn't been convicted of murder in the United States, but
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: he said I, well, I committed crimes, but he didn't
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: want to answer the specific question. And it was interesting.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: The Justice Minister was standing there with me and he
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: chimed in and he pressed again. He said, look, did
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: you commit homicide in the United States? Tell us? And
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: in his response, he said, well, you know how you
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: become a member of MS thirteen, So he did.
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's about as honest some answers you're gonna get right.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he said he became a member when he
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: was thirteen, and the way you become a member is
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: your murder soon And he'd been in Virginia at extended time.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: He'd been in Dallas as a gang member, so I
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: don't know. He may have murdered Texans. He did not,
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: He did not detail, and he was covered in tats,
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: and you know, he was a and I talked to
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: him and he had a forty years sentence, so he
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: will get out in his eighties. Wow. And I was
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: asking about that. And he has a family. He has
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: a wife and he has two kids. He has a daughter,
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: and he has a thirteen year old son that they're
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: all in Nolsalvador. And I asked him, I said, okay,
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: your son is thirteen, he's the same age you were
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: when you joined him as thirteen. I asked, do you
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: want him to join the gang? And he looked at
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: me horrified. He said no, no, And he had a comment.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: It was a weird comment where he said, look, my
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: son is living here now and it's safe and he
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: doesn't have to join a gang. And it was this
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: is someone whose entire life is going to be in
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: a cage in a hole. And by the way, he said,
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: I'll never see my wife again, I will never see
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: my children again. But like, there's no visitation, there's no
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: he is locked in a cage with ninety nine other
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: gang members for the rest of his life. Wow, and
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: there look, there was a despair. And I asked him,
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: I said, look, you became you joined the gang at thirteen.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: Why did you join the gang? He said, look, all
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: my friends were everyone I knew was that was the
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: world I was in that you joined the gang. You
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: join the gang, you survive. And I asked him, I said, well,
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: if you wanted to, could you quit. Let's say you
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: were fifteen or sixteen or seventeen. You said, all right,
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: I'm done. He said no, there's no way to quit.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: He said, you had two options, kill or die. That's
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: what life was as a gang member. And I have
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: to say, listen, this is someone who I assume has
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: committed multiple murders. He admitted to at least two wan
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: or Nel Salvador, and at least one in the United States,
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: and it may have been many more. And so I'm
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: very glad he's incarcerated and not murdering people anymore. But
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: I will say, you know, I mean I felt a sadness.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: This is a human being whose entire life is just
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: a waste and it and the sentiment he expressed, I mean,
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: he really did express joys the wrong word for it,
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: but I'd say gratitude that his thirteen year old son
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: does not have to live in a world. And he
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: had basically said, look, Al Salvador is much safer that
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: it's ever been. I mean, he was almost saying it's
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: a good thing he's in prison. He didn't quite say that,
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: but when he was talking about his son, that's basically
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: what he was saying. And that I got to say, Look,
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: in US prisons, they'll they'll let you read books, they'll
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: let you watch TV, they'll let you lift weights, they'll
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: let you play basketball, they'll let you play sports, you socialize,
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: and there's there may be some virtue to that, but
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: I got to say, any gang members, gang activity has
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: disappeared Nel Salvador. If you knew what life was like
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: for these guys, there's no way on Earth you'd be
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: willing to join a gang because their life is effectively over.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: What are the other parts of your trip involved? Going
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: to the Panama Canal and seeing some different things, including
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: a lot that deals with China. Now it's been a
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: big concern talk about that.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So I've spent a day and a half in Panama.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: I flew from El Salvador to Panama and met with
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: with with multiple cabinet members, the Finance Minister, the Defense Minister,
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: the Public Safety minister, uh and the head of the
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: Panama Canal and and and I will say, remember one,
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: Panama is a beautiful country. Uh it is. It is
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: a gorgeous place. And and the people of Panama have
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: a deep affinity for America. I was struck by that.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: You know that they repeatedly, the government officials, the Panamanians
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: that I visited with, there's a long history at a close,
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: close affinity for the United States. The Panama Canal is amazing.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: So I went out on a boat and went to
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: the outer parts of the Panama Canal, and then I
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: went to one of the locks, and I saw I
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: saw one of the Panamas, like the super tankers coming through,
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: and and then also saw a little sailboat coming through,
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: and then a kind of medium sized container ship coming through.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: It is amazing, it is like, it is very cool.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: Number one, just how the Panama Canal operates. Like you
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: see the Panamax, the supertanker. The container ship is the
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: largest size possible to fit through the Panama Canal, and
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: it's built for that size. I mean, it is literally
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: this massive ship that is going through these locks. And
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: these locks have concrete on the side, and it's built
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: so the sides of the ship are within two feet
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: of the concrete walls on both sides, Like it's that big.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: And what happens. So we were on the Pacific end
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: of the canal and a ship comes in and each
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: of the locks has to lower the ship twenty seven feet,
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: so it comes in into the locks. And it's interesting
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: for the big tanker that connect steel cables to the
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: tanker and they have locomotives on both sides to help
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: keep the ship right in the center. You've got only
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: two feet of clearance on both sides, so it'd be
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: really easy for it to small into the side of
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: the canal and it is in the lock, and then
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: it takes about eight to ten minutes for the water
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: to drain and for it to lower twenty seven feet,
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: and it's lowering twenty seven feet, and it goes to
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: the next lot and it lowers another I believe it's
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: twenty seven feet. All told, it's about eight I think
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: it's eighty one feet. That it has to rise to
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: get to the height of the lake in the interior,
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: and then it has to lower it to get to
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: the Atlantic Ocean of the Pacific Ocean, and both the
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: Atlantic and Pacific are about the same distance. To lower
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: the water twenty seven feet takes eight to ten minutes,
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: and so the water goes down and then the giant
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: gates open. It was amazing to watch the technology. I
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: saw the old control room. I saw the control room
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: where the lock is being operated, the old control room.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: So the Panama Canal was built in nineteen fourteen. The
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: United States built it, and we lost thousands and thousands
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: of lots I was building it. It's an incredible engineering marvel.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: So the old control room had these brass ge equipment.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: You saw the old g General Electric and Electric that
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: they built one of the first early computers to help
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: operate the locks. It's amazing now now it's all computerized
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: in high tech. So the old brass controls of each
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: lock that gives you the water height. And it was
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: literally it almost looked like something Captain Nemo would have
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: in terms of the nineteen fourteen levers and switches to
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: operate the canal that's still preserved there. When I went
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: out on the boat, one of the things I saw
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: ben is right at the entrance, the Pacific entrance of
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: the canal, there is a gigantic port that is owned
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: and controlled by Communist China, and it's right there, and
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: they have cranes. They're right there in a position. There
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: is also China is building a bridge, a bridge across
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: the canal. It is a bridge for cars. They were
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: awarded the contract to build the bridge. China is also
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: there's a Chinese company that is digging a tunnel under
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: the canal for a metro trade. And so I saw,
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: I saw where the metro was going to go. I
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: saw the bridge being built, and it's all right there
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: at the mouth of the canal. And I went the
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: purpose of my visit was to meet with the Panamanian
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: government and say, look, China cannot have control of this canal.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: It is too important to the United States, to our
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: national security, to our economic security. As you know, I'm
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: the chairman of the Senate Commerce Committee. The Commerce Committee
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: has jurisdiction over the Panama Canal, and so earlier this
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: year I chaired a hearing on the Panama Canal in
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: the Commerce Committee and we laid out the concerns, in
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: particular the concerns of China. And when I laid out
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: to the Panamanian officials, I said, look, if God forbid,
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: we find ourselves in a military conflict with China. Let's
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: say next year China invades Taiwan and President she has
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: repeatedly said he wants to invade Taiwan. If he does so,
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: there's a very real possibility that escalates into a military
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: conflict with the United States. If China is in an
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: active military conflict with the United States, I think the
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: risk is unacceptable that China would try to shut down
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: the Panama Canal because if they shut down the Panama Canal,
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: it massively delays our ability to move military ships from
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: the Atlantic to the Pacific to engage with the Chinese
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: in Taiwan because it forces our military ships instead to
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: go around the southern tip of South America rather than
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: through the canal. And so if you're president, she look,
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: you wouldn't do it at the time of peace. But
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: if they're at war, it becomes a really compelling situation
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: to say, let's impose massive economic harm on the United
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: States and we get enormous benefits. They're billions of dollars
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: of revenue that comes from shipping. Shipping, whether it is
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: is oil and gas through the Panama Canal or goods
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: and containers, and shutting down the Panama Canal would be
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: a real blow to the United States economy. But it
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: would also be a real blow to our military because
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: it would limit our ability to move naval ships from
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: the Atlantic to Pacific. It would massively delay moving that
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: those ships. And so what I'm pressing Panama, I will
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: say when I shared the hearing on the Panama Canal,
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: within a week they announced the deal to sell those
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: two do Chinese ports to an American business consortium. That
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: deal has not gone through yet. The Chinese are slow
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: walking in and part of the purpose of my trip
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: was to press the Panamanian government and say, look, you
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: need to get the Chinese the hell out of here.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: Do not leave them in a position where they can
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: shut down this canal, because shutting down this canal would
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: be an enormous economic and national security blow to the
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: United States, but it would also be an enormous blow
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: to Panama. And so part of the case I was
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: making them is their interests and our interest are aligned.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: They don't want China to be in a position to
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: shut down the canal.
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, great point.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: We're going to continue talking about this issue, I can
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: promise you on our podcast, So make sure you download
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: Vertic with Ted Cruz wherever you get your podcasts. We
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: do the show as a podcast three days a week,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: so grab it. You can tell Siria Alexa, hey play
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: Vertic with Ted Cruise. That will happen as well, and
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: we hope that you'll join us again next weekend here
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: wherever you're listening to show, on whatever station you're listening to,
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: and then senday and I will see you
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: Back here on our podcasts all week long.