Latest / The Lila Rose Show / E265: Debating Same-Sex Marriage w/ Perez Hilton and Carrie Prejean Boller | Lila Rose Show

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E265: Debating Same-Sex Marriage w/ Perez Hilton and Carrie Prejean Boller | Lila Rose Show · The Lila Rose Show

• 0:00
  I was called into the top five and I was ready to be Miss USA
• 0:03
  as I thought wow, here is such a controversial question.
• 0:07
  You went on that night and did a YouTube video stating that I
• 0:10
  gave. The worst answer in pageant
• 0:14
  history? Miss California lost because
• 0:16
  she's a dumb. It was intentionally cruel,
• 0:20
  which is one of the reasons why I fully believe that.
• 0:23
  I would really love to know your perspective why you asked me
• 0:26
  that question. Why did I ask that question?
• 0:28
  What I was expecting was a typical beauty pageant answer.
• 0:31
  Just that event, looking back on it, would you have changed
• 0:33
  anything at all? I knew better and I chose.
• 0:41
  Hey, everyone, welcome back to the Lila Rose Show.
• 0:44
  All right, today we're doing things a little differently.
• 0:45
  We're having a discussion here with Carrie Prejean Bowler as
• 0:49
  well as Perez Hilton, and we're going to have a conversation
• 0:53
  about their interactions in the past, which we'll get into.
• 0:56
  Some of you might be familiar from the great show we did with
• 0:58
  Carrie recently. And we're going to have a
• 1:00
  conversation, a candid conversation, respectfully,
• 1:02
  about the differences in worldview between Perez.
• 1:06
  Carrie. I'm going to contribute a little
• 1:07
  bit, but I'm going to avoid going too much.
• 1:10
  My perspective here. You all know where I stand on
• 1:12
  these issues, but I really wanted to have this be a
• 1:14
  conversation that Perez and Carrie could have and I will
• 1:17
  help moderate and maybe contribute a little bit as we
• 1:19
  go. Also, I want to ask you to
• 1:21
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• 1:23
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• 1:26
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• 1:31
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• 1:34
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• 1:53
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• 1:58
  patreon.com/lila Rose Show and be part of the growing community
• 2:02
  over there. But I'm super excited to have
• 2:04
  Perez join. Perez, welcome so much to the
• 2:06
  show. Thank you for joining.
• 2:08
  Thanks for having me. I, you know, it might surprise
• 2:13
  people, but I'm very conservative in a lot of ways.
• 2:18
  I, I, I consider myself a centrist.
• 2:21
  You know, many of us carry with us the, I wouldn't call it
• 2:26
  baggage, but you know, the upbringing that we had.
• 2:30
  And some people stay along the same path and some people
• 2:35
  deviate and find their own way or a different way or they go
• 2:38
  back to that path. I grew up in Miami, the son of
• 2:43
  two Cuban immigrants, and it was a very homogeneous upbringing.
• 2:47
  It was me in a Latino community and I went to an all boy Jesuit
• 2:52
  school. And I don't know if you're
• 2:55
  familiar, but most Cubans, and probably even more than Cubans,
• 3:00
  but most Latinos in Miami are Republicans.
• 3:04
  And I don't identify as a Republican.
• 3:06
  I identify as a centrist. I don't really like either side.
• 3:10
  But because I have that upbringing of being born and
• 3:14
  raised in a conservative community and because I'm
• 3:19
  Latino, I still love my family members that voted for Donald
• 3:25
  Trump. You know, I think it's a very, I
• 3:28
  might be stereotyping here, but it's it seems more common in
• 3:33
  Anglo America in non Latino communities to cut out family
• 3:40
  members or friends who supported Donald Trump and Latinos.
• 3:45
  We don't do that for the most part, you know, like, okay,
• 3:48
  you're my, you're my cousin, my aunt, my uncle, whomever.
• 3:51
  I'm not saying it's those people, but you're a family
• 3:53
  member of mine. You're still my family.
• 3:55
  I still love you. It doesn't matter who you voted
• 3:58
  for. And I'm not even going to talk
• 4:00
  politics with you because I'm not trying to change anyone's
• 4:04
  mind. I'm not a politician and I don't
• 4:08
  think anybody would probably change my mind about my views
• 4:11
  that I've gotten to either. So I just wanted to say all that
• 4:16
  to say that I'm really approaching this as a
• 4:20
  constructive conversation to hopefully get more conversations
• 4:25
  like this happening and to hopefully get more
• 4:30
  understanding. Maybe because I'm still me, I
• 4:37
  still like to be honest, and I am.
• 4:39
  How I express my opinions are different than before, but I'm
• 4:46
  not going to censor myself. Because of your audience, I'm
• 4:51
  not a fan of Donald. Trump, please don't do that.
• 4:53
  We don't want any self censorship here.
• 4:54
  I'm not a fan. I'm not a fan of Donald Trump
• 4:58
  and it saddens me that he has played a big role.
• 5:03
  In the what I call showbiz, showbiz showbizification of
• 5:09
  politics. I don't think that politics
• 5:13
  should be show business. You know, like, and it sucks
• 5:17
  that it's not all him not putting the blame on him.
• 5:20
  It's a lot of social medias fault as well, because social
• 5:25
  media really rewards rage bait and and you know, people will
• 5:30
  say crazy things because they want to get more views.
• 5:34
  And I, I know that first hand. I'm guilty of that in the past
• 5:38
  in many awful ways. Thank you, Perez.
• 5:42
  Well, thanks for sharing all of that.
• 5:43
  I'm going to introduce Carrie. Welcome back to the show,
• 5:45
  Carrie. So Carrie's here in studio and I
• 5:48
  know she's excited to have the conversation as well.
• 5:50
  And I appreciate kind of sharing where you're coming from a
• 5:52
  little bit. But Carrie, thanks for thanks
• 5:54
  for joining as well. Thank you so much for having me.
• 5:57
  So I think for starters, we can talk about, you know, just a
• 6:01
  little bit of the clearing the air between the two of you.
• 6:03
  I know you actually haven't met physically in person, like on to
• 6:06
  shake hands or give each other a hug.
• 6:07
  I think you were in person at the Miss USA pageant.
• 6:10
  What is it now 16 years ago, over 15 years ago.
• 6:13
  So let's just share maybe briefly how you both remember
• 6:17
  those events, what you would have changed now, if anything,
• 6:21
  and then any other thoughts you want to share with each other.
• 6:23
  And I will let you start. Carrie.
• 6:26
  OK. Hi, Perez.
• 6:27
  It's so good to see you. You look great.
• 6:29
  Too Thank. You yeah, the last time we kind
• 6:32
  of interacted was kind of during COVID a little bit, but prior to
• 6:35
  that was really the night of the pageant.
• 6:37
  I was called into the top five and I was ready to be Miss USA
• 6:41
  and representing the state of California.
• 6:45
  With all due respect, we, the girls had no idea who you were.
• 6:48
  We actually thought you were Paris Hilton.
• 6:51
  And we were all joking, like, is she going to bring her dog?
• 6:53
  And so when we saw you, we were like, oh, I wonder who that guy
• 6:57
  is? I mean, we didn't know anything
• 6:58
  about you. So you've obviously had a big
• 7:01
  career since then. But when I received your
• 7:04
  question, you know, Vermont recently became the 4th state to
• 7:07
  legalize same sex marriage. Do you believe other states
• 7:10
  should follow suit? Why or why not?
• 7:13
  To be honest with you, Perez, I I was taken aback because I
• 7:15
  thought, wow, here is such a controversial question.
• 7:19
  I wasn't sure if you were told to ask a controversial question
• 7:22
  or if that came from you. But as you know, representing
• 7:27
  California, I don't know if you're familiar with Prop 8, but
• 7:30
  Californians did not support the redefinition of marriage.
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  We, we wanted marriage to be defined as one man and one
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  woman. Majority of people in my state
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  wanted that. And then on top of that, you
• 7:43
  know, you asking my personal opinion as a Christian, I gave
• 7:47
  you that answer and then the rest is history.
• 7:52
  So you went on that night and did a YouTube video stating that
• 7:55
  I gave the worst answer in pageant history, which I think
• 8:01
  it was actually the best answer in pageant history because it
• 8:04
  showed that I am just being true to myself.
• 8:06
  Like what you said earlier, you're always going to be
• 8:08
  honest. You're always going to be true
• 8:09
  to yourself. And even the crown of Miss USA
• 8:12
  wasn't worth, you know, losing myself and lying to the American
• 8:16
  people, especially for a temporary title as Miss USA.
• 8:20
  Perez, do you, what are your thoughts in terms of that event?
• 8:24
  Again, I know it's 15 plus years ago now, but I know recently you
• 8:27
  and Carrie have had a conversation about it.
• 8:29
  And do you have any thoughts about just that event looking
• 8:32
  back on it? Would you have changed anything
• 8:34
  at all? What's your perspective?
• 8:37
  Definitely. You know, I think I know that if
• 8:42
  I would have, well, actually I was a judge on Miss Universe a
• 8:48
  few years ago, so, so many years after Miss USA.
• 8:52
  And there was also controversy that night as well.
• 8:55
  I don't know. Controversy follows me in beauty
• 8:58
  pageants. That was the night that Steve
• 8:59
  Harvey crowned the wrong winner. And then, Oh my God, there was a
• 9:03
  mix up and then they gave it to the right winner.
• 9:06
  But I did a lot of talking after that mix up and I had opinions
• 9:15
  that I don't think that I expressed them in a way that was
• 9:20
  cruel, which is different from how I responded to Kerry's
• 9:25
  answer. It was cruel and it was cruel
• 9:30
  not even casually. It was intentionally cruel,
• 9:34
  which is one of the reasons why I fully believe that.
• 9:38
  Well, first of all, I, I, I, I'm sorry, I, I think I said that
• 9:41
  last time. So I, I would like to apologize
• 9:44
  again here in this platform sincerely.
• 9:47
  And I say this as a cautionary tale, you know, cliche, does it
• 9:53
  sound, but oftentimes. A first impression is a lasting
• 9:58
  impression and many people still think of me as that person from
• 10:06
  15 years ago. And even though I know that I've
• 10:11
  changed and I do things differently, I don't want to put
• 10:15
  a a number like I don't want to say the majority or a fair a
• 10:19
  good amount. A lot of people still want to
• 10:22
  keep me trapped in this prison cell of the past.
• 10:28
  But in a way that's freeing because I'm not trying for any
• 10:35
  redemption. I'm not trying for forgiveness.
• 10:40
  I'm just doing better and being better and making mistakes along
• 10:44
  the way. I'm not perfect, nobody is.
• 10:47
  But you know, I could have. I should have expressed my
• 10:52
  disappointment to the answer in a way that wasn't purposely
• 10:57
  cruel. You know, like my MO back in the
• 10:59
  day was. And This is why I actually, I
• 11:03
  don't even know if I I would forgive myself if I wasn't me.
• 11:07
  I don't know if I would if I was just like a general person in
• 11:10
  the public, like, oh, you know, people say, oh, you were so
• 11:13
  toxic, you were cruel, you were bad for society.
• 11:17
  If I wasn't me, I might agree with those people because I knew
• 11:23
  better and I chose not to do better.
• 11:28
  I was so selfish. All I cared about was the
• 11:32
  attention I was getting, and I wanted more attention.
• 11:35
  It was like a drug. It was.
• 11:36
  Some people don't like attention.
• 11:39
  I did. I still do.
• 11:41
  I'm still an attention addict. I have to work at these impulses
• 11:46
  and tendencies that if I'm not careful, can creep back up.
• 11:51
  And you know, I, I, I, I made a lot of mistakes in the past that
• 11:57
  are very public and I feel like I live life with this Scarlet P
• 12:03
  And the difference is, you know, everybody has baggage.
• 12:07
  It's just that most people can hide theirs.
• 12:09
  I can't hide from mine. I'm not trying to hide from
• 12:12
  mine. I'm just trying to, like I said,
• 12:15
  be better and do better. And I, and I, and I think, and I
• 12:19
  think I am and, and B, since like, oh God, it's crazy. 2025
• 12:24
  is just like the wildest year. I follow this creator and these
• 12:29
  people exist. I follow this creator on social
• 12:32
  media named Kara Cunningham. I don't know if your audience is
• 12:36
  familiar with her, but she's a transgender creator who achieved
• 12:42
  virality 1516 years ago. She used to go by the name.
• 12:47
  And she she's a conservative trans woman who voted for Donald
• 12:51
  Trump. So I don't think she would have
• 12:53
  issue with me revealing her old name because some trans people
• 12:57
  don't like that. Oh, that's the dead name and
• 12:59
  they don't want to. So she used to go by Chris
• 13:02
  Crocker, who made that iconic video from the early 2000s Leave
• 13:06
  Brittany alone. That's Kara Cunningham.
• 13:10
  And she lost over 100,000 followers on just Instagram
• 13:18
  because her audience did not like that she voted for Donald
• 13:22
  Trump. And even though I did not vote
• 13:25
  for Donald Trump, I'm not going to unfollow Cara Cunningham
• 13:30
  because of that. And I'm not going to say and
• 13:33
  actually I would a mistake that I made after.
• 13:37
  I think with, you know what, when you grow up, when you get
• 13:40
  older, hopefully you get wiser and more mature and hopefully
• 13:43
  more understanding and hopefully more compassionate.
• 13:47
  You know, in 2016, nine years ago, after Trump won, I was
• 13:51
  like, it's the end of the world. This is awful, you know, And
• 13:55
  like, now it's like, all right, these people voted differently
• 13:58
  than I did, but that doesn't mean they're bad people.
• 14:01
  There are bad people that voted for Donald Trump, but not
• 14:06
  everybody who voted for Donald Trump is a bad person.
• 14:08
  And, you know, I just try to approach my life from that place
• 14:12
  of understanding and compassion. Thank you, Perez.
• 14:17
  I think that's I very, very laudatory and I, I think I know
• 14:22
  Kerry has a take on this. I mean, every one of us,
• 14:26
  especially myself, I would put myself first in line, have done
• 14:30
  things both personally and publicly that are not perfect.
• 14:34
  I may regret. We make mistakes.
• 14:36
  So I think my goal here isn't so much to re litigate, you know,
• 14:40
  the past, but to talk about that as a foundation and then get to
• 14:44
  perspectives being different today and how we can kind of
• 14:46
  talk through those. But I know, Carrie, you had
• 14:48
  something to say here. So yeah.
• 14:50
  Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much, Prez.
• 14:53
  I know that when I had reached out to you during COVID, I was
• 14:57
  still kind of angry. You know, I kind of was a little
• 14:59
  bit bitter about the way things ended with us.
• 15:02
  And, you know, over the years, I, I've thought a lot about you.
• 15:06
  And now that I'm a mom and we never got to meet.
• 15:11
  And had we got to meet, I think that we would find common ground
• 15:17
  more than people think. And, and so I appreciate your
• 15:20
  sincere apology and I, I want you to know publicly that I do
• 15:24
  forgive you. And I'm sorry if I ever hurt
• 15:29
  you. Obviously, my feelings that
• 15:33
  night are still the feelings that I have.
• 15:36
  And so I just want the audience to know that I think it's a
• 15:39
  beautiful thing that we're here together.
• 15:41
  And thank you for coming on. And thank you for Lila, to Lila,
• 15:44
  for having both of us on. And I think the world wants us
• 15:47
  to hate each other. But, you know, we owe it to
• 15:51
  ourselves and to our fellow Americans to really come
• 15:55
  together and unite as Americans. And, and so thank you.
• 15:59
  And I, I want you to know I totally forgive you and I love
• 16:03
  you as a brother. So I I'm looking forward to this
• 16:05
  conversation. Oh, thank you.
• 16:09
  Yeah, I don't really. I don't hate anybody really.
• 16:12
  And you know, I almost actually what's, what's so funny is the
• 16:18
  older we get, at least for me, I start to become more and more
• 16:22
  like my mother and. Same, Perez.
• 16:26
  My mother is blissfully ignorant from everything politics.
• 16:33
  I'm like, maybe I should just detach, but I still care.
• 16:37
  Like I'm, I still follow what's going on, but I'm like, what
• 16:42
  would happen if I stopped following?
• 16:43
  Like, you know, like I might be happier.
• 16:47
  It's like the news and what's going on in the world and
• 16:51
  everything. It's because it's like, I don't
• 16:53
  know, I, I feel like, like, like Carrie said, I feel like at the
• 16:57
  end of the day, I like to believe that most people are
• 17:01
  good. And if you view people as mostly
• 17:05
  being good and flawed, but good people and your neighbor.
• 17:09
  Actually, I moved to Las Vegas since we spoke last, and Las
• 17:13
  Vegas is a much more real place than Los Angeles.
• 17:21
  It's a big city, but it's got a small town feel to it.
• 17:25
  And there's real community here that I never really got in Los
• 17:30
  Angeles. And I love community and I love
• 17:32
  that, you know, actually politics isn't a topic of
• 17:35
  regular conversation here. When I go out and I see my
• 17:38
  friends or we randomly run into each other somewhere, we just
• 17:42
  talk about our lives and we talk about things that we did
• 17:46
  recently. And I love that Vegas is a place
• 17:50
  where everybody can harmoniously coexist.
• 17:53
  And it's, you know, it's not like I'm a liberal or a
• 17:55
  conservative or a centrist and you're not, it's like we're just
• 17:58
  all Las Vegas residents and we're here and it's a small
• 18:01
  town. And actually, I think because
• 18:03
  it's a smaller city than Los Angeles, everybody feels like
• 18:06
  they have to play nice because everybody knows everybody.
• 18:09
  And it's a, and you don't want to burn bridges.
• 18:11
  And if if you approach living in big cities or any life like it's
• 18:16
  a small town, I think that might be a good way of living for
• 18:20
  everybody. I like that.
• 18:22
  I think that's a a good perspective.
• 18:24
  I think the bottom line is treating people with respect and
• 18:27
  love and kindness is going to make any society happen and
• 18:31
  civilization be able to sustain itself.
• 18:33
  There's also the question of the order for a society, the order
• 18:37
  for a culture, the political system and what are the rules,
• 18:40
  You know, what are the governing, you know, body of law
• 18:43
  that is going to help us know how to interact with each other.
• 18:46
  So we are going to get into the question of same sex marriage
• 18:49
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  You know what? Carrie had shared at the pageant
• 21:38
  was that marriage is between one man and one woman and she shares
• 21:41
  this as a Christian. But you know, my perspective is
• 21:43
  this is a 2000 year old, yes, Christian tradition, but it
• 21:47
  predates Christianity. For me, believing that marriage
• 21:51
  is between thinking that marriage is between one man and
• 21:54
  one woman is not a matter of religious belief.
• 21:56
  It's a matter of looking at the natural order, the way male is
• 21:59
  designed, females designed, how life comes into the world.
• 22:02
  So you can be, in my view, any religion or no religion and
• 22:05
  still think, OK, marriage, you know, should be largely between
• 22:08
  a man and a woman because that's how life comes into the world.
• 22:11
  They're made for each other. Children ideally have both a
• 22:14
  mother and a father. Sometimes that's not possible,
• 22:16
  but that's the ideal for their development.
• 22:19
  I'd love your take on this, Perez.
• 22:21
  And again, I want to again, appreciate you being willing to
• 22:24
  come and speak with us because I know we disagree and I think
• 22:26
  there's so much power in having this conversation.
• 22:28
  So I'd love your your take on that.
• 22:29
  Well, I think they're two different conversations.
• 22:32
  I think what you were talking about is religious marriage.
• 22:36
  I respect that. And then there is the legal
• 22:41
  protections, rights and privileges that come with
• 22:44
  marriage. For example, if I was dating
• 22:48
  somebody for 20 years and that person got in an awful accident,
• 22:53
  if I'm not legally their spouse, I would not be able to make
• 22:58
  medical decisions for that person.
• 23:00
  I think legal marriage is a totally separate thing from
• 23:04
  religious marriage. And I don't even care my
• 23:06
  thoughts on religious marriage. Who cares?
• 23:09
  Like I, I, I, I, I actually don't, you know, like if, if, if
• 23:14
  the Catholic Church says marriage is between a man or a
• 23:17
  woman, OK, great. I'm not trying to change the
• 23:19
  Catholic Church. That's what the Catholic Church
• 23:21
  can believe. So Carrie, do you have any
• 23:26
  thoughts on that? And I I'll, I might weigh in as
• 23:28
  well, but I'll let you take a first stab.
• 23:29
  Yeah. So I guess my question to you
• 23:31
  is, what do you believe defines marriage?
• 23:36
  Like who gets to define marriage in your opinion?
• 23:40
  I believe marriage is a contract between two people and religion
• 23:48
  can view it one way and the federal government can view it
• 23:51
  another way. I know and back in 2009 the
• 23:54
  whole love is love thing. Like do you stand by that where
• 23:57
  it's, you know, love is love and you can just marry whoever you
• 24:00
  love? Like is that still your stance
• 24:02
  of like if I love a man and I love a woman, can I can I marry
• 24:07
  both or is it just one and one? Like what is your standard?
• 24:14
  And just a quick note, there is there is polyamory happening
• 24:17
  enshrined in marital relationships now for adoption
• 24:20
  and fostering is my understanding.
• 24:22
  And I don't know if we're in the legal marriage place yet, but
• 24:24
  that has been a request made. So there's mean, you know, a
• 24:28
  throuple asking to marry and have the legal benefits of a
• 24:31
  couple as well as the benefit of adopting, fostering, surrogacy,
• 24:35
  etcetera. So that is a that's not just a
• 24:38
  no, no, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a real kind of thing.
• 24:40
  Happening. I mean, you know, there's still
• 24:42
  a lot of Mormon folks who believe in polygamy.
• 24:46
  I honestly haven't put too much thought into if I believe that
• 24:51
  federal, federally recognized marriage should be for more than
• 24:56
  one person. I'm not a politician and I don't
• 24:59
  I don't also believe that everybody has to have a
• 25:01
  political opinion on every political issue.
• 25:06
  Is it a political opinion or would that just be a moral
• 25:10
  opinion? Like what?
• 25:11
  What is your? I guess what I'm trying to get
• 25:12
  at is I get my standard obviously from my Christian
• 25:16
  faith. So what is your standard?
• 25:19
  From my life experience, I would say you know from from making
• 25:25
  mistakes and learning along the way and paying attention to the
• 25:28
  lessons that life has taught me is where I personally get my
• 25:32
  morality. So should laws be based on
• 25:36
  people's, you know, experiences or?
• 25:39
  I believe that laws should not be based on religion.
• 25:42
  I think that's one of the founding principles of our
• 25:44
  country, the separation of church and state.
• 25:47
  Absolutely. Where?
• 25:50
  Where is the separation of church and state, do you know?
• 25:53
  I believe it's somewhere in the Constitution.
• 25:59
  It's nowhere in the Constitution Press.
• 26:02
  Hold on, let me look that up. Does the US Constitution.
• 26:12
  That's why I think in conversations like this are so
• 26:14
  important because there's so many things that can be said,
• 26:17
  you know, typing behind a keyboard.
• 26:20
  And that's what's so beautiful about these types of
• 26:23
  conversations is we can challenge each other in a loving
• 26:26
  way. I mean, the goal is to really
• 26:28
  just come to they don't and they.
• 26:30
  Don't use the exact term, but it does.
• 26:35
  According to this, you know, the concept of the separation of
• 26:39
  church and state is understood in the Constitution without
• 26:42
  actually saying that. This is what I'm reading.
• 26:46
  No, the United States Constitution does not explicitly
• 26:48
  use the phrase separation of church and state, but the
• 26:51
  concept is established in the 1st Amendment's Establishment
• 26:55
  Clause. That's the. 1st result have an
• 26:58
  established religion be of of the state, but it's also to keep
• 27:03
  the state out of religion. It's to keep the state out of
• 27:07
  the business of the church. That's really the way I.
• 27:09
  Believe in that also. And so from the beginning of
• 27:12
  time, Perez, you know this, we've always had marriage
• 27:15
  between one man and one woman. And So what I'm trying to get at
• 27:17
  is where is your standard? Do you get that?
• 27:20
  You can say, I think we should just redefine marriage.
• 27:23
  Because if, if I'm correct, I remember you did a video after
• 27:27
  saying that if you were Miss California and you were up on
• 27:30
  stage that you would have said that you would have left it,
• 27:33
  left it up to the states, correct?
• 27:35
  I don't remember, that was a while ago.
• 27:37
  So I pulled up a video this morning just refreshing my
• 27:39
  memory. And you did say that.
• 27:41
  You said that you should have let I I should have said that it
• 27:43
  should have been left up to the states.
• 27:45
  But we did do that. We did do that specifically here
• 27:48
  in California. As liberal as California is,
• 27:50
  Perez, most of the people here did not want gay marriage.
• 27:54
  You remember Prop 8? Yeah.
• 27:56
  So what do you say about that? The people spoke and they didn't
• 27:59
  want gay marriage. So how did we get gay marriage?
• 28:02
  I would say it's 2025 now and most people the now in this day
• 28:07
  and age, thankfully the overwhelming majority are in
• 28:10
  favor of same sex marriage. But you said to leave it up to
• 28:14
  the states, and we did that and they voted against it.
• 28:17
  So how did we get gay marriage? Do you know?
• 28:18
  I know, but do you know how we got gay marriage?
• 28:21
  Yeah, the United States Supreme Court.
• 28:24
  But prior to that, what happened in California after Prop 8?
• 28:28
  It was overturned and then it was.
• 28:31
  But who was it overturned by? The the people.
• 28:36
  The no, it wasn't overturned by the people.
• 28:38
  It was a judge that ruled so over, you know, was overriding
• 28:42
  the people's decision. You said leave it up to the
• 28:44
  people, right? The people should decide.
• 28:46
  And the people did decide that they did not want gay marriage
• 28:49
  in California, but one judge overruled that.
• 28:52
  And then now we have gay marriage for all.
• 28:56
  What I'm asking you is where is your standard?
• 28:59
  Like what is your where do you draw the line?
• 29:03
  Like is it just based on your life experience?
• 29:06
  Like what is your standard? I have my standard.
• 29:09
  I would love to know where you get your morality from.
• 29:13
  I, I answered that from my life experience, from the mistakes
• 29:16
  I've made from, from that, you know, I, I, I, I, I don't agree
• 29:22
  with a lot of the teachings of the Jesuit school that I went
• 29:28
  to, you know, like, for example, and you listen in this, I would
• 29:31
  love to hear your answer on this because I think I know how
• 29:35
  you're going to answer. You're all about being honest.
• 29:39
  There are a lot of religious people who believe like, let's
• 29:44
  are you a Catholic, Kerry? Yes.
• 29:46
  OK, yes. So I know a lot of Catholic
• 29:49
  people, because I was raised Catholic and went to a Catholic
• 29:52
  school, who believe that all Jewish people, all Muslim
• 29:57
  people, anybody actually, they believe that anybody who's not
• 30:01
  Catholic. So if you're Lutheran or
• 30:03
  Protestant or whatever, if you're not Catholic, I know
• 30:06
  this, they, they believe that those people who are not
• 30:09
  Catholic are going to hell. Do you believe it's true?
• 30:13
  You don't think that's true? Or do you believe that yourself?
• 30:17
  No, obviously our Catholic faith, we don't, we don't say
• 30:20
  anyone's going to hell. I would never say we don't know.
• 30:23
  Yeah, we don't know. And we don't say everyone's
• 30:26
  going to heaven. I just went to a recent Catholic
• 30:28
  funeral and it's very sad. And and everybody's wearing
• 30:32
  black and we would never get up there saying, oh, this person is
• 30:36
  in heaven today. We don't know.
• 30:38
  So my stance is, I don't know. So that's a that's a great
• 30:44
  question. I'd I'd love for us and we can
• 30:46
  keep going down that that approach.
• 30:49
  Perez, if you have more questions on the lines, I do
• 30:51
  want to make sure we get back to the question of public policy,
• 30:53
  because I think that's really because it's one thing to say,
• 30:56
  OK, you have personal opinions about sin or virtue, right?
• 30:59
  And Carrie may have opinions about sin or virtue.
• 31:02
  And then there's the question of what should the public policy
• 31:04
  be? And right now the public policy
• 31:07
  and Kerry kind of outlined the history a bit, you know, because
• 31:09
  of judicial, I would argue, activism, You might say, well,
• 31:11
  the judge was doing the right thing, but because of judges,
• 31:14
  not because of some democratic vote, we have homosexual, you
• 31:17
  know, same sex marriage enshrined now.
• 31:19
  I think culturally it's like an after play.
• 31:21
  More people are saying, yeah, I support same sex marriage
• 31:24
  because once the law changes, it does affect a lot of people's
• 31:27
  opinions. I think that also follows.
• 31:29
  And then there's now a shift though happening where people
• 31:31
  are saying, wait, is this the right path that we're on?
• 31:34
  So Perez, did you have a follow up?
• 31:37
  I know you asked the question about what Catholics believe
• 31:39
  about heaven and hell. Did you have a follow up there
• 31:41
  or can we or should we go back to public policy?
• 31:42
  I want to make sure I respect a direction you wanted to go
• 31:45
  there. I mean, I'm happy to do whatever
• 31:49
  you want. Like my whole like, to sum it up
• 31:53
  briefly, it's like I personally believe that public, public
• 31:57
  policy should not be influenced by religion.
• 32:01
  And I'll apply that to all stances, Yeah.
• 32:06
  Do you realize, Perez, that our country was founded on Christian
• 32:11
  principles? Like can you agree to that?
• 32:14
  I'm not a history expert. I don't know if I'll agree to
• 32:17
  that. There were a lot of things that
• 32:21
  60 years ago were acceptable, like segregation, and they're
• 32:26
  not acceptable now. And I think that moving forward
• 32:30
  and progressing and evolving is a good thing.
• 32:35
  Where do you draw the line though?
• 32:37
  At what point? Because now I have kids, you
• 32:39
  know, that are being invited to drag shows.
• 32:42
  Because if it's just whatever feels good and you know, let's
• 32:47
  just go based on life experiences, why not invite 5
• 32:50
  year olds to drag shows? I mean, do you see where I'm
• 32:53
  trying to get it? Like at what point do you say
• 32:56
  this is the line that I draw? The line that I draw is, and I
• 33:02
  think that Republicans and conservatives historically were
• 33:08
  all about this. The line that I draw is don't
• 33:11
  interfere with my life. Government should stay out of my
• 33:14
  business and I'll stay out of yours.
• 33:17
  That, to me, is what am I? You do realize that that's not
• 33:20
  happening? We have drag shows but.
• 33:23
  If if you have an issue with If you have an issue with a child
• 33:26
  going to a drag show, don't take your child to a drag show but.
• 33:30
  Do you, I, I, I know you have kids.
• 33:32
  So are your kids in public school or private school?
• 33:35
  They're in private school. OK.
• 33:38
  Is it a religious? I mean, not that it's any of my
• 33:40
  business, but I would love to know the context.
• 33:42
  OK, so you do realize in public school that there is an agenda
• 33:47
  to now. I think a lot of people were
• 33:49
  like, OK, gay marriage, do whatever you want in your
• 33:51
  bedroom as long as it doesn't affect me.
• 33:53
  You do you. And then what we're seeing,
• 33:55
  Perez and and tell me if you disagree, because I'd love to
• 33:57
  hear your your feedback on this is now what's going on in the
• 34:02
  bedroom is now being discussed in the classroom and it's now
• 34:05
  being pushed in the boardroom. And now this idea of equality is
• 34:09
  now it's not about equality, it's about complete domination.
• 34:13
  How did we go from you, do you, Perez, with what you want to do
• 34:16
  in the bedroom to now this being pushed in all the schools across
• 34:20
  the country, not just here in California?
• 34:23
  Where do we draw the line? I I don't, I don't, I can't
• 34:26
  speak for schools and I would not describe it as, I would
• 34:31
  describe it as letting children know they're accepted as they
• 34:36
  are. And what does?
• 34:41
  That mean can you elaborate on that?
• 34:43
  Like accept them as they. Are so the way that you, the way
• 34:48
  that you describe what you just did?
• 34:49
  It's like if I was a young closeted 12 year old I would
• 34:53
  feel bad about myself because you just said oh the ideal way
• 34:56
  is not to be gay or I may be paraphrasing incorrectly but
• 35:02
  well. Would you agree that it's a
• 35:03
  disorder? Like, would you agree that
• 35:05
  that's not really ideal for a thriving society?
• 35:09
  Like a thriving society would be one man, one woman, obviously
• 35:12
  mother and father. We've seen that in all of human
• 35:15
  history. Well, the my understanding is
• 35:19
  that the, you know, governing board of psychology used to view
• 35:23
  homosexuality as a disorder, but it's not viewed that way
• 35:26
  anymore. Morally, religiously, you might
• 35:30
  disagree, but you know, smart folks that are trained
• 35:35
  professionals in the field have come out with a different
• 35:39
  opinion. I have a quick question here at
• 35:43
  to jump in. So when you talk about, you
• 35:45
  know, the board of, you know, psychological experts and the
• 35:49
  change, and I know what you're referring to, the DSM being
• 35:51
  taken out of the DSM I think 3 or 4 decades ago now it's been
• 35:54
  several decades. The social data I think does
• 35:59
  bear out and I think in human experience, it bears out the
• 36:01
  unique value of a mother and a father and the human design of
• 36:04
  male and female come together and can bring life into the
• 36:06
  world. And that's where Carrie is
• 36:08
  speaking to this idea of natural marriage being not a religious
• 36:11
  ideal, some divine revelation, but it's written into our very
• 36:14
  bodies and in our in the natural order, so we can all perceive it
• 36:17
  regardless of our religion or lack of religion.
• 36:20
  And so I'm curious about your perspective on that.
• 36:24
  Do you think that it is ideal for children to have a mother
• 36:27
  and a father? And do you think there is a
• 36:29
  natural order that exists that indicates marriage being one
• 36:33
  between one man and one woman? I think what's ideal for
• 36:37
  children is to have a safe, loving home, period.
• 36:44
  And I think that, you know, the question you just asked, I, you
• 36:53
  know, I, it goes back to what I said, you know, religion and
• 36:57
  government are two different things in my mind.
• 36:59
  I don't care about religious thoughts on marriage.
• 37:02
  I just care about the rights, privileges and protections that
• 37:06
  come with government sanctioned marriage.
• 37:11
  And I think we agree about children needing a safe home.
• 37:14
  So I we're fully in agreement there.
• 37:16
  Let. Me, let me, let me, let me, let
• 37:18
  me ask a I'm interested on this. I'd love to hear both of your
• 37:21
  answers. Do you believe that two men and
• 37:27
  two women, let's not even use the word marriage.
• 37:31
  Let's say couples that have been together 30 years.
• 37:34
  You know it's 2, 2 gay men and two women that have been that
• 37:39
  are in their 50s and they've been together for 30 plus years.
• 37:42
  Do you believe that they should be allowed to adopt children?
• 37:48
  I, I would say no and, and I want to break down actually
• 37:51
  connected back to something you said earlier, because I was
• 37:53
  going to follow up about that. This idea.
• 37:55
  Well, we should have same sex marriage because what about
• 37:58
  hospital visiting privileges as an example?
• 38:00
  I think you use that at the beginning.
• 38:01
  No more than privileges, decision making abilities.
• 38:03
  Decision making, yeah. And I think we can adjust our
• 38:06
  legal system as needed to do guardianship or who's next in
• 38:10
  line to make a decision. If someone's alone in the world
• 38:12
  who gets to make those decisions?
• 38:14
  That's a very separate question than redefining marriage and
• 38:17
  deciding who is going to be adopting, fostering or creating
• 38:21
  children. Right?
• 38:22
  And only a man and a woman together can naturally create
• 38:24
  children. But because of reproductive
• 38:26
  technologies, there's now, you know, million, there's a million
• 38:29
  frozen embryos. There's all these children being
• 38:31
  created. People can just create life at
• 38:32
  will, regardless of their ability.
• 38:34
  Naturally, they can go and hire somebody.
• 38:36
  Right. Sorry to interrupt you, but I
• 38:37
  don't want to forget this thought.
• 38:40
  This is not the first time that marriage has been redefined.
• 38:43
  Marriage was redefined decades ago when our government said,
• 38:48
  OK, interracial marriages are legal.
• 38:52
  That was a redefinition of marriage.
• 38:54
  So would you be, shouldn't you be against that as well?
• 38:59
  Because that is objectively a redefining of marriage as it was
• 39:04
  known in the as it was known in the United States.
• 39:08
  That's a consequence of racism. So I think that's less about
• 39:11
  what is the nature of marriage. One man, one woman, that's more
• 39:13
  about we're racist. Or you could be, you know,
• 39:16
  against inter religious marrying.
• 39:18
  You could be against, you know, inter ethnic marrying like
• 39:21
  you're saying, or racial marrying.
• 39:22
  You could be against inter socio economic marrying.
• 39:24
  There's a caste system in India that, you know, historically has
• 39:27
  prevented, you know, inter caste marrying.
• 39:29
  So that's those are all questions that I think have to
• 39:32
  do with justice and prudence. Yeah, I don't think that's right
• 39:35
  at all to say two people can't freely marry a man in a woman.
• 39:38
  And actually, if we want to got religious for a minute, in the
• 39:41
  religious context, the Catholic Church is teaching is that two
• 39:44
  people free consenting adults, a man and a woman, have the right
• 39:48
  to marry. So no government can tell them
• 39:50
  not to marry. But speaking from the public
• 39:53
  policy context, I think that's also important there too to, you
• 39:57
  know, consenting adults who are free should have the right to
• 40:00
  marry. I don't consider that some
• 40:01
  religious Catholic ideal. I think that's a universal truth
• 40:04
  that no government should prevent to a man and a woman
• 40:07
  coming together freely with full consent from marrying each
• 40:10
  other, because they're actually have been policies recommended
• 40:13
  100 years ago by eugenicists like Margaret Sanger to prevent.
• 40:17
  Marriage and children from certain couples because of their
• 40:21
  disabilities or their socioeconomic status.
• 40:24
  So there's all been all kinds of weird stuff, you know,
• 40:26
  historically trying to prevent people from getting married in
• 40:29
  the 1st place. But in terms of the definition
• 40:32
  of marriage as one man, one woman, that's what we're
• 40:35
  speaking to right now. Well, that's the religious
• 40:37
  definition, yes. But it's not.
• 40:39
  But I think Carrie and I are saying, and, and I'd love your
• 40:42
  take on this, we're saying it's not a religious definition,
• 40:45
  although you can look at virtually every world religion
• 40:48
  and they speak to it. We see it as a universal truth
• 40:52
  that's written in nature and the human body, that when you want
• 40:55
  to procreate the human species, you need one man and one woman
• 40:58
  to do it. And that the best outcomes for
• 41:01
  children and I think for keeping relationships between the sexes
• 41:04
  healthy and strong is one woman, one man.
• 41:07
  And that's not some opinion that's borne out in the, you
• 41:10
  know, universal experience. Yes.
• 41:12
  I mean you talked about human experience, but it also social
• 41:14
  data and throughout human history.
• 41:17
  I I would disagree that isn't an opinion, but you know, we don't.
• 41:20
  I'm not trying to change your mind.
• 41:24
  Back to the question of children and parents, I think you asked
• 41:27
  about that Perez and I know you might have a follow up question
• 41:30
  or or thought on that too, Carrie, but I am curious your
• 41:34
  perspective there too. Do you think it is ideal for a
• 41:37
  child to have both a mother and a father?
• 41:40
  I already answered that. I think all that matters is that
• 41:43
  a child is in a safe loving environment.
• 41:48
  You know, is it ideal for a child to have four half siblings
• 41:54
  because the mom and dad each got married three times and had
• 41:58
  multiple kids with each parent with each spouse?
• 42:01
  You know, I would say that's not my opinion.
• 42:06
  Like the concept of ideal, it doesn't matter.
• 42:08
  Just because I don't agree, I may not agree with somebody
• 42:13
  doesn't mean that they're wrong. Like that's the place where I'm
• 42:17
  at in these these days. Like, you know, I may not agree
• 42:20
  with the way that person parents or the way that that person does
• 42:22
  this or that person does that, but that's their way.
• 42:25
  My way is my way. It doesn't mean that my way is
• 42:27
  right and they're wrong. I feel like a lot of people do
• 42:30
  believe my way is right and the world would be better if
• 42:34
  everybody agreed with me. Like I don't.
• 42:36
  I don't believe that personally. Sure.
• 42:39
  Well, I think we both agree there are certain rights and
• 42:41
  wrongs like don't murder, don't steal, don't rape.
• 42:44
  You could argue those are religious ideas, which they are
• 42:46
  in basically every world religion, but they're also moral
• 42:50
  truths and legal precepts, clearly that we all abide by or
• 42:54
  we all should be abiding by, of course.
• 42:57
  But you know, I think back to children and and parents.
• 43:00
  I know you're saying, well, there's children, you know,
• 43:01
  families with half siblings, etcetera.
• 43:03
  I think they're going to get drilled down into why that's
• 43:05
  happening. If a spouse dies and then
• 43:07
  remarries, right? There is a difference between a
• 43:10
  spouse cheats on their spouse, leaves them and then there's
• 43:12
  breaking the family that way. So there's kind of, is it a
• 43:15
  tragedy that happened or is it somebody willfully doing the
• 43:17
  wrong thing that happened, you know, in that family breakdown
• 43:20
  potentially or in that family change.
• 43:22
  But back to the child, you know, I, I, you mentioned your mother
• 43:26
  earlier, right? And I think that there is
• 43:29
  something unique about a mother and there's something unique
• 43:32
  about a father and that we all have a mother and a father, even
• 43:35
  a child made via IVF in a test tube.
• 43:38
  They have a biological mother and a father.
• 43:40
  And then many of these children end up having effectively an
• 43:42
  adopted mother or father and or father.
• 43:45
  And that matters to the child. I've never met a child that it
• 43:50
  doesn't matter to. And so I'm curious if your your
• 43:54
  thoughts on that. My thoughts on what
• 44:00
  specifically? Your thoughts on a child's
• 44:04
  natural right? I would consider it their
• 44:06
  natural right to have a mother and a father.
• 44:10
  And sometimes because of adoption or or disease or death
• 44:13
  or some other issue, they have to have an adopted.
• 44:16
  They'll have an adopted mother and father, but they still
• 44:19
  deserve to have that mother and father because naturally they
• 44:22
  do. Biologically, we all are wired
• 44:24
  for that and we all have that. I mean, I'm old enough to know
• 44:29
  that things happen in life. People, people die young, people
• 44:37
  get divorced. I think what, like I said, what
• 44:44
  matters is that a child lives in is lives in an environment of
• 44:49
  love and support. Can I ask you, Perez, just jump
• 44:54
  in real quick? What?
• 44:56
  How would you define love? How would I?
• 45:00
  I mean, I don't why does it matter?
• 45:03
  Like I don't understand why. Because you're using the words
• 45:06
  as long as a child is loved. I would love to know how you
• 45:09
  define a child. How I define that, You know,
• 45:14
  giving my children structure, routine, stability, support,
• 45:22
  words of encouragement, consequences, enrichment, piano
• 45:32
  classes, swimming, things like that.
• 45:38
  Take having quality one-on-one time with each of the three of
• 45:41
  them knowing that they're a priority, the priority in my
• 45:45
  life. I would define love through
• 45:51
  actions, not words, personally. I think that's, I think we agree
• 45:57
  on that, Kerry. We all agree on that.
• 45:59
  Yeah, I think that's good. I think there's still that
• 46:02
  foundational reality that you have a mother biologically,
• 46:06
  Perez. I have a mother, Kerry, as
• 46:07
  mother. We all biologically have a
• 46:09
  father, whether we are raised by our biological mother or father,
• 46:13
  we will have people in our lives who are like mothers or fathers
• 46:16
  to us. Or if we didn't have that,
• 46:18
  that's often a wound for people. But that's a reality for
• 46:21
  virtually every human being. And so that's where, you know,
• 46:25
  go reverse engineering this separate from the question of
• 46:27
  male female relationships, the fact I think men and women are
• 46:30
  designed together biologically. There's also the question of
• 46:33
  children and what they need. Sounds like you're saying
• 46:35
  children just need safety structure, you know, good strong
• 46:39
  relationship with whoever is their parental figure, right.
• 46:43
  But it doesn't need to be a mother and a father.
• 46:45
  That doesn't really matter. And I, I don't see how that can
• 46:49
  be true when you know it is the social data that shows mothers
• 46:53
  and father father in the home is incredibly important.
• 46:56
  A mother in home is incredibly important.
• 46:58
  When you don't have one or the other, you have a lot of
• 47:00
  negative disadvantages. You can look at social science
• 47:02
  all day long on it, but you can also look at the whole range of
• 47:05
  human experience. You talked about human
• 47:06
  experience. Do you think your mother as an
• 47:10
  example to see make it personal? Because I know you talk about
• 47:12
  you base your morality on your personal experience.
• 47:14
  Do you think your mother has a unique role in your life as a
• 47:17
  mother? Or do you think if she had been
• 47:19
  a father it would have been the same to you?
• 47:24
  I mean, I don't know. I don't know.
• 47:27
  My dad passed away when I was young, so I don't know if I can.
• 47:33
  I don't know how different it could have been or would have
• 47:35
  been. Are you, do you consider
• 47:38
  yourself a religious person? I guess I never really even
• 47:40
  asked you that. Like, what would you know?
• 47:42
  Do you believe in God? Do you believe that Jesus died
• 47:46
  and rose again? Like where do you, where do you
• 47:48
  stand on your faith 'cause you were raised Catholic, you said?
• 47:51
  Yeah, I, I don't believe in, I would say I'm agnostic.
• 47:57
  Like I'm not an atheist. I would say I'm open to the
• 48:00
  possibility of there being something bigger than us and
• 48:04
  something afterlife, but I I wouldn't.
• 48:08
  But yeah, an agnostic doesn't necessarily believe that.
• 48:11
  So I, I, that's how I would describe myself.
• 48:13
  I would I would like. To do you believe God created
• 48:15
  all things like you believe that we do have a creator, a
• 48:18
  designer? I don't know God.
• 48:20
  Of order. I don't, I don't, I don't really
• 48:22
  have an opinion. I don't, I don't, I don't really
• 48:24
  believe that I it it's possible. Do you hope you're wrong?
• 48:34
  Yeah, I would love to be wrong. I would love for there to be,
• 48:37
  you know, the concept of heaven. But then it goes back to, you
• 48:40
  know, like all there's so many religions in the world.
• 48:45
  You may not agree with this, but when I went to the Jesuit
• 48:47
  school, we were taught, I was taught that I went to a Jesuit
• 48:51
  school for seven years. It was from 6th to 12th grade.
• 48:55
  I was taught by those Jesuit priests that non Catholics were
• 48:58
  going to hell. And that really stuck with me
• 49:02
  because I'm like, that means all Jewish people or all Muslim
• 49:05
  people or all other non Catholics are going to hell like
• 49:08
  that. Just never.
• 49:10
  That never made sense to me. I think we can all focus on like
• 49:15
  the one thing that we were taught as a kid that sticks with
• 49:18
  us. And I'm so sorry that that was
• 49:19
  your experience, but did you learn anything in that Jesuit
• 49:24
  school that stuck with you, that where you still hold to this
• 49:27
  day? Like is there something still
• 49:29
  in? Yeah, absolutely.
• 49:31
  The incredible, not the religious aspect, but just the
• 49:35
  really strong work ethic. You know, I, I have those high
• 49:41
  expectations of my children, you know, like, I'm, that I'm like a
• 49:44
  lot like my mother was like, I don't, I don't want B's.
• 49:47
  I want all A's. And, you know, it's like
• 49:50
  homework everyday, bedtime at 8:30 and no later and all of all
• 49:55
  of those things. And, you know, and it's actually
• 49:57
  one of the reasons I left Los Angeles.
• 49:59
  Like, I really am a centrist and the school that we were at was a
• 50:05
  little too progressive for my liking.
• 50:07
  They didn't do grades, they didn't do homework.
• 50:11
  I'm like, kids need homework. They need to be prepared for the
• 50:14
  real we. Have a lot in common, Perez, We
• 50:16
  have a lot in common. Yes, but but at the end.
• 50:20
  That's where it's like anything goes, like we, we don't have a
• 50:23
  standard anymore. It's just like everybody.
• 50:25
  Did have a standard. No, that school did have a
• 50:28
  standard. It was their standard.
• 50:29
  And like I didn't, I originally signed up for it because they
• 50:34
  have a dual language Spanish immersion program and that was
• 50:37
  important for me. But after I got more familiar
• 50:40
  with the programs, like this isn't really working for my
• 50:43
  family, you know, like I like, I like trick or treating and old
• 50:49
  school things and. They ban.
• 50:54
  They ban trick or treating. Well, they wouldn't let you like
• 50:58
  celebrate birthdays and things like that.
• 51:00
  You couldn't take any treats, no cupcakes, no things like that.
• 51:03
  And like, you know, the school that my kids are at now, if it's
• 51:06
  their birthday, you can take, you know, little treats and
• 51:09
  things like that. Like there's nothing wrong with
• 51:12
  that personally, but you know, the every school can determine
• 51:16
  what's right for their school community and the school
• 51:18
  culture. And I understand not everybody
• 51:23
  has the ability to go to a different public school if you
• 51:25
  don't like how that public school is running.
• 51:29
  Do you hope that your kids grow up to to marry the opposite sex
• 51:33
  or do you do you want them to follow sort of in your
• 51:36
  footsteps? It's just a question that I have
• 51:38
  for you. Like what would you encourage
• 51:40
  for your kids? I wouldn't use the word
• 51:42
  encouragement. Just like I don't talk to my
• 51:45
  kids and they're older now, 1210, and my, well, my youngest
• 51:49
  is still a baby, kind of eight. She just turned 8.
• 51:52
  But I don't talk to them about crushes or boys or girls, just
• 51:58
  like I don't talk to them about jobs.
• 52:01
  I don't say, oh, what do you want to be when you're older?
• 52:05
  I, I, all I tell them is I don't care what you do when you're
• 52:08
  older, so long as the number one most important thing in life for
• 52:12
  me is family. So family is the most important
• 52:17
  thing. And the number 2 most important
• 52:19
  thing is you have to work very hard.
• 52:22
  And I'm not just talking about even work, you know, like work
• 52:25
  very hard when it comes to your health, work very hard when it
• 52:28
  comes to your relationships, work very hard and everything,
• 52:31
  because life has taught me, my experience as an old man now has
• 52:35
  taught me that the harder you work at things, you know, the
• 52:38
  the more reward, the more you will get back.
• 52:41
  Not always, but more often than not.
• 52:44
  So yeah, my hope for my kids is just that they're happy.
• 52:49
  They're happy. And whatever they do, because
• 52:51
  life is short, you know, like 17 years goes by in the blink of an
• 52:56
  eye. So you would say happiness is
• 53:00
  the ultimate goal for you, for your children?
• 53:03
  Yeah, definitely. So let me ask you a question and
• 53:07
  I've, I've always wanted to ask someone that has your beliefs
• 53:10
  this question. So if your daughter came home
• 53:13
  and said, Hey, dad, I and, and she's obviously very thin.
• 53:19
  I'm just using an example. She's very thin, underweight and
• 53:23
  came to you and said, hey, dad, it would make me really happy to
• 53:27
  get liposuction. I really think that I'm
• 53:29
  overweight and I just, I really want to get liposuction and I
• 53:33
  want to be on the treadmill every night losing more weight
• 53:36
  because it would make me really, really happy.
• 53:38
  What would you say to that child?
• 53:40
  Would you affirm that or would you say, hey, you're really not
• 53:45
  fat? Like let's let's maybe go seek
• 53:48
  someone that can maybe walk you through this before we jump into
• 53:51
  that. Yeah, I mean, I would say that,
• 53:54
  you know, same with like I'm, I'm very conservative in many
• 53:57
  ways. If my child wants it, I want to
• 53:59
  get a tattoo. No, you're not getting a tattoo.
• 54:02
  You you can get a tattoo when you're an adult and like, no,
• 54:06
  you're not gonna. And if if the issue of
• 54:09
  liposuction is is more extreme than a tattoo, for that I would.
• 54:13
  Definitely. Yeah, for that I would
• 54:15
  definitely be like, well, we need to, you know, talk to a
• 54:18
  professional about this because you're very healthy and, you
• 54:24
  know, I don't have all the answers.
• 54:26
  And I don't even know if a professional will have all the
• 54:28
  answers. But you're not going to do
• 54:30
  anything until you're at least 18.
• 54:32
  And until you're 18, I think it'd be helpful to talk to a
• 54:37
  trained counselor, therapist, professional.
• 54:41
  We agree on that. So then what do you say about
• 54:44
  this whole transgenderism where these young kids are being put
• 54:48
  on puberty blockers? You know, very young age,
• 54:51
  obviously your same standard would apply, right?
• 54:53
  Not wait until you're an adult. For me and my family, yes, I
• 55:00
  don't really have a strong opinion on it.
• 55:04
  I, I would not allow my minor children to have surgery or use
• 55:10
  hormones, but I don't know if I necessarily believe that there
• 55:14
  should be a law banning it because I, I, I, I'd have to, I
• 55:22
  haven't really formed an opinion.
• 55:23
  I, I, I, I'm sure that there are people who think that that would
• 55:26
  be child abuse, but then also there are religious people.
• 55:31
  I, I forget what religion, you know, the ones that maybe it's
• 55:34
  Jehovah's Witness who don't believe in blood transfusions
• 55:37
  and they would not allow their child to receive a blood
• 55:40
  transfusion if they needed one. So.
• 55:44
  I'm curious if the liposuction example pulled that back up
• 55:48
  here. If there was a parent and there
• 55:51
  is some crazy stuff that happens, you know, there's that
• 55:53
  proxy Munchusen, proxy mental illness that some people have
• 55:58
  where they have their child have problems that the child doesn't
• 56:01
  actually have and they do unnecessary medical
• 56:03
  interventions. In the extreme liposuction
• 56:06
  example, what if there was a parent and the child initiated
• 56:09
  it and said, I'm, I'm basically an anorexic, I want liposuction.
• 56:13
  And the parent was like, OK, sure.
• 56:14
  And let's say the medical system was like, let's do whatever the
• 56:17
  parent wants, whatever the kid wants.
• 56:18
  It's fully their consent. So they go in for it.
• 56:20
  And this obviously is like damaging to the child, could
• 56:23
  even kill the child eventually. Yeah, I guess it's back to the
• 56:27
  line drawn. Would you draw a line there, or
• 56:29
  would you say, yeah, that the parent and the child really want
• 56:31
  it together, we got to respect it, and there should be no laws,
• 56:35
  like God forbid the law gets involved here.
• 56:42
  I don't. I haven't really thought about
• 56:44
  it and this is a good opportunity for me to go and
• 56:48
  think about. It pretend this is a Miss USA
• 56:50
  question for us Hilton. Let's go.
• 56:51
  You got 30 seconds. Let's go for the crown.
• 56:53
  Win this crown, baby. I don't think that the
• 56:56
  government should be telling parents how to parent.
• 56:59
  Ever. But I mean there's, I mean,
• 57:01
  there's certainly. I mean there.
• 57:03
  Are certain standards like? There's certain standards like
• 57:06
  you, your child has to go to school.
• 57:08
  But you know, for example, something like, you know,
• 57:12
  doctors might all say that you know your, your child if they
• 57:18
  get more than 10 hours of sleep a night.
• 57:22
  That's ideal for a young child. But then a parent, there are
• 57:26
  parents out there, oh, we don't give our kids bedtime and we
• 57:29
  home school and they go to sleep whenever they want.
• 57:32
  Like I don't believe the government should say, well, no,
• 57:36
  you're all children should be in bed by a certain time because
• 57:39
  that's what the, you know, studies say is best for a child.
• 57:43
  You know, live and let live. What's right for me may not be
• 57:48
  right for you. What's right for you may not be
• 57:49
  right for me. I think you're right that
• 57:53
  there's a lot of grey area in the world of parenting for sure
• 57:56
  about preferences like Co sleeping and breastfeeding and
• 58:00
  you know, parent dental like there's a whole world.
• 58:02
  But then there are bright lines that are established, often
• 58:04
  having to do with fundamental rights of the child's, like the
• 58:07
  child's fundamental right to, you know, nutrition, shelter,
• 58:12
  you know, to be given an education, things like that,
• 58:15
  right. And then there's.
• 58:16
  Also, even something as small, even something as small as like
• 58:20
  some parents might let their child watch television 6 hours a
• 58:24
  day and there are some or 8 hours a day and then there's and
• 58:28
  play video games. And there are some parents who
• 58:30
  might judge those parents and think if you're letting your
• 58:32
  child watch TV and play video games for 8 hours a day, that's
• 58:36
  child abuse. No child should be playing video
• 58:38
  games and watching TV for 8 hours a day.
• 58:41
  And it just goes back to what I said.
• 58:43
  I don't do that with my kids. I don't let them have that much
• 58:46
  screen time. But I'm not going to try to like
• 58:49
  make it illegal for for another parent to do that, or or in any
• 58:53
  kind of. Way like that.
• 58:57
  Yeah, I think with medical interventions, there's there,
• 59:00
  there you can, by the way, you can get legally docked.
• 59:03
  You can get in legal trouble for child neglect.
• 59:06
  The standard for that obviously has a lot to do with food,
• 59:09
  shelter, nutrition. So it's an interesting question
• 59:12
  of, you know, if, if a child was, say, was physically plugged
• 59:15
  into a, you know, effectively plugged into a screen for 10
• 59:18
  hours a day, could you make a case over a period of time?
• 59:22
  And let's say, you know, this was done intentionally by the
• 59:24
  parent or even unintentionally, but could you make a case for
• 59:27
  that being an issue, a legal issue even?
• 59:30
  I think that's an interesting question, but there are clear
• 59:33
  parameters around, you know, parenting today where you can go
• 59:37
  to jail for child abuse or child neglect.
• 59:39
  You can be penalized for those things.
• 59:42
  And, you know, I think we're talking about the trans issue in
• 59:45
  that situation. You know, I, I had Chloe Cole on
• 59:48
  the show, people know doubled mastectomy at age 15.
• 59:51
  And she says her parents are not to blame.
• 59:54
  It's the medical system because they, they were told by the,
• 59:56
  the, the experts, you have to do this or she's going to die.
• 1:00:00
  So they were doing the best they could, right, with our crazy
• 1:00:02
  medical system. But she's furious.
• 1:00:05
  Because she doesn't have her breasts and that that those are
• 1:00:07
  removed from her body as a minor, right?
• 1:00:10
  So the conversation today is, is this okay to be allowing?
• 1:00:14
  Whether it's the parent or the doctors doesn't matter to be
• 1:00:17
  doing this to children, right? And then there's a foundational
• 1:00:20
  question we're exploring of do children deserve a mother and a
• 1:00:23
  father? Should the legal system be set
• 1:00:24
  up to honor those families? And if there are people in same
• 1:00:29
  sex relationships who want visiting privileges at a
• 1:00:31
  hospital or something like that, that's a is a separate question
• 1:00:34
  than involving the kids. Carrie, did you have a follow up
• 1:00:37
  question? And then Perez, do you have
• 1:00:39
  further questions? I have to be honest and it's sad
• 1:00:44
  that the bigger picture, you know, my interpretation is that
• 1:00:54
  a lot of people use religion to discriminate.
• 1:01:02
  And that just makes me sad personally.
• 1:01:09
  I, I, I, I wish that everybody naively, you know, the older
• 1:01:15
  I've gotten, the more I've truly, sincerely just want to
• 1:01:18
  live in peace with everybody and view my neighbor as my friend
• 1:01:23
  and not my enemy. And you know, like, like I said,
• 1:01:31
  if if you don't agree with somebody's choices, don't make
• 1:01:36
  those choices. Don't you think that there's
• 1:01:40
  laws put in place? I mean, obviously we have, you
• 1:01:43
  know, do not murder, do not steal.
• 1:01:44
  We have laws that are put in place for the betterment of
• 1:01:47
  society. Don't you think that there is
• 1:01:50
  certain laws that are in place that protect human life?
• 1:01:54
  I mean, don't you agree with that?
• 1:01:56
  I don't think that's a religious thing.
• 1:01:57
  I think that's just a societal norm that we have, which is a
• 1:02:01
  good thing. Don't you?
• 1:02:01
  Well. Actually, yes, but you know,
• 1:02:08
  there are some religious people who was that even even somebody
• 1:02:15
  affiliated with maybe that Project 2025 or I forget, but
• 1:02:20
  there are some, I'm trying to remember who it was.
• 1:02:22
  But there are some religious people who are against fertility
• 1:02:27
  treatments for, for heterosexual couples, IVF, you know, they're
• 1:02:31
  like, oh, if God did not want you to have a child, you should
• 1:02:34
  not have a child. I'm curious, what do you what do
• 1:02:37
  you both think about that? I think the the framing there is
• 1:02:40
  is incorrect and you're right that we are.
• 1:02:43
  And I think again it you can be Catholic, you could be Baptist.
• 1:02:47
  Both of them are opposed to certain reproductive
• 1:02:49
  technologies that violate a certain natural order that
• 1:02:52
  they're safeguarding both the child and society.
• 1:02:55
  And I can I'll explain that briefly in a second, but it can
• 1:02:58
  be anyone's view again, because this is certainly the teaching
• 1:03:02
  of the Catholic Church or the Baptist denomination or this
• 1:03:04
  maybe Evangelical church. But it's also something that you
• 1:03:07
  can discern separate from a religious divine revelation
• 1:03:10
  paradigm looking at the natural order.
• 1:03:12
  And the reality is with IVF, so in vitro fertilization, when you
• 1:03:17
  do IVF, you're taking lovemaking out of the equation, right?
• 1:03:20
  There's no longer one man and woman together, coming together
• 1:03:22
  and having sex, sexual intercourse.
• 1:03:24
  You're doing this test tube creation of a new life, right?
• 1:03:28
  And so automatically there you're breaking a natural order.
• 1:03:30
  But then it goes a step further where there's a high risk to the
• 1:03:34
  child because typically an IVF, you have to create maybe 10-12
• 1:03:39
  embryos. Usually only one or two are
• 1:03:41
  selected. They're graded.
• 1:03:43
  And these are new individual human lives.
• 1:03:45
  These aren't just like pieces of building blocks for human life.
• 1:03:47
  They're individual little boys and girls, tiny, right, And
• 1:03:51
  they're left to be frozen. There's a million frozen embryos
• 1:03:54
  right now in America. They're often destroyed.
• 1:03:56
  Oh, we don't want them. You can destroy them or we're
• 1:03:59
  going to donate them to research, which is destroying
• 1:04:01
  them. Let's manipulate them until they
• 1:04:02
  die for our research purposes. Or there's a high rate of
• 1:04:06
  miscarriage because they're implanted and then there's a
• 1:04:09
  high rate of miscarriage because this is a very dangerous for the
• 1:04:11
  child. So all things considered there,
• 1:04:13
  there's a there's a lot of danger to the child.
• 1:04:15
  I understood so because of that belief of yours, which I I My
• 1:04:21
  understanding is that belief is informed by your.
• 1:04:25
  I don't even care what it's informed by how you got to it.
• 1:04:27
  Well, it's a danger. It's not my belief that it's
• 1:04:30
  dangerous for the child. So my my question is, because
• 1:04:33
  you believe that, do you believe that IVF for heterosex for all
• 1:04:37
  people, gay couples, heterosexual couples, do you
• 1:04:39
  believe that it should be illegal?
• 1:04:41
  I think it should not be a practice.
• 1:04:42
  And yeah, I I don't think it should be legal to be creating
• 1:04:45
  life in test tubes. I think it's very dangerous and
• 1:04:48
  it and it's proven dangerous because a million children who
• 1:04:52
  have the right to live are being frozen right now and millions
• 1:04:56
  more, potentially more than are aborted via typical abortion are
• 1:04:59
  being killed via IVF. So it.
• 1:05:00
  Here's another. Completely damaging to the
• 1:05:02
  sanctity of that human life and the the rights of that human
• 1:05:05
  life. One more question, sorry, and
• 1:05:08
  then I do have to go. That was good.
• 1:05:10
  I had a. Flashback of something that I
• 1:05:12
  remembered in in Jesuit school for seven years, the Pope,
• 1:05:18
  Catholics, or at least you know, back in the 80s and 90s and
• 1:05:23
  early 2000, well 80s and 90's, the Catholic Church used to
• 1:05:26
  believe that the Pope would speak directly to God.
• 1:05:30
  And there's even like a name for it.
• 1:05:32
  Like basically if the Pope says that it's true, do you agree
• 1:05:36
  with? Cathedra.
• 1:05:37
  Is that? Is that what it's called?
• 1:05:38
  Talking the Pope, you're speaking about the Pope's
• 1:05:41
  ability as Pope to speak infallibly on matters of faith
• 1:05:45
  and morals. That's binding for the whole
• 1:05:47
  church, So it becomes part of the magisterium.
• 1:05:49
  This is not to be confused with the Pope just saying something
• 1:05:52
  because the Pope can do media interviews, have personal
• 1:05:54
  commentary, even give a homily. And that's not necessarily
• 1:05:57
  binding for the whole church because it's not a specific
• 1:06:01
  format that says this is this is like the magisterium.
• 1:06:04
  This is me speaking infallibly. So that's why you've had you've
• 1:06:07
  had popes who've been total screw ups.
• 1:06:10
  I mean, most of our popes have been really good.
• 1:06:11
  Thanks be to God. There have been some total screw
• 1:06:13
  ups in our history. That doesn't mean everything
• 1:06:15
  they say and do is infallible. It has to be in a specific
• 1:06:18
  format that the Holy Spirit is is given to the church to guide
• 1:06:21
  it. This Pope and I think the last
• 1:06:23
  Pope, both of the most 2 recent popes have been critical of
• 1:06:28
  Donald Trump's positions on on immigrants.
• 1:06:34
  As a Catholic, then, do you do you feel like you have to agree
• 1:06:39
  with the Pope or do you just or you disagree with the Pope?
• 1:06:42
  I'm curious about that. I mean, I'll, I'll share and
• 1:06:45
  then you may have a take on this.
• 1:06:46
  I think first of all, I have disagreements and I've been very
• 1:06:50
  vocal about them with many things that President Trump has
• 1:06:53
  said and done. So I don't know if you know
• 1:06:55
  this, but I was one of the people last year before the
• 1:06:57
  election who was my had my own version of being dragged online
• 1:07:01
  because I was outspoken about him not being as pro-life as he
• 1:07:05
  should in his public policy and him promoting IVF, in vitro
• 1:07:10
  fertilization. So that's been another concern
• 1:07:12
  that we've had to go back and forth on.
• 1:07:13
  So I personally do not stand by everything President Trump's has
• 1:07:16
  said or done. Think there's some good things.
• 1:07:17
  I think there's some bad things on immigration.
• 1:07:19
  It's very clear the church's teachings about the rights of
• 1:07:22
  immigrants to seek a better life, but also the rights of
• 1:07:25
  nations to have borders. So there's when there's two
• 1:07:27
  rights that might seem in conflict, that comes a question
• 1:07:29
  of identifying, OK, how are they in conflict?
• 1:07:32
  Where does, where does my right to a border exist?
• 1:07:35
  And then I can seek a good life as an immigrant, but I can't
• 1:07:37
  violate a nation's sovereign sovereignty.
• 1:07:40
  So there's all of these questions.
• 1:07:41
  I think what they're speaking to, if I'm understanding your,
• 1:07:44
  your, your point here correctly and, and what you're referring
• 1:07:47
  to, and I've seen the comments from Pope Leo, for example,
• 1:07:49
  about immigration, is even when you're enforcing immigration
• 1:07:52
  law, like a deportation, you still have to treat the person
• 1:07:56
  you're deporting or putting in prison, whatever it is with
• 1:07:58
  dignity. You, you don't have the right to
• 1:08:00
  treat them poorly. You don't have the right to
• 1:08:02
  treat them inhumanely. You have to treat them with
• 1:08:04
  dignity, even if you are deporting them.
• 1:08:06
  And so he's not saying you don't have the right to deport of the
• 1:08:09
  country. He's saying you have to do this
• 1:08:11
  with dignity and respect and rule of law.
• 1:08:13
  And that I agree with 100%. That would have been a perfect
• 1:08:18
  Miss USA answer. Gosh, what would you have voted
• 1:08:20
  her for that Perez 0? It no.
• 1:08:24
  It depends on who. It depends who the other
• 1:08:27
  contestants were at that time. I take judging seriously, but
• 1:08:32
  just I know. You do ASD was here.
• 1:08:34
  Would she win instead of me? Well, gorgeous, I appreciate you
• 1:08:39
  having me on and. Wait, I have one last question
• 1:08:42
  and then I'll let you go. Come on.
• 1:08:44
  Is that OK? OK.
• 1:08:45
  Will you publicly say that men should not be in women's sports
• 1:08:50
  'cause I know you have common sense?
• 1:08:51
  I've said that I would love to get that public.
• 1:08:54
  I've said that before, like I'm not afraid of speaking my
• 1:08:57
  thoughts, but I also said. Before.
• 1:09:00
  Yeah, but I also said what? Is your belief on that?
• 1:09:03
  I've said mostly that my, I'm very, I'm very consistent.
• 1:09:11
  What I've said repeatedly is personally, I don't believe that
• 1:09:16
  somebody who was born a male like that one college swimmer
• 1:09:19
  should be competing against people who were born female.
• 1:09:23
  However, I've I've said I believe that I keep my opinion
• 1:09:28
  out of it. It should really be up to the
• 1:09:29
  the athletes, like all of the athletic bodies should determine
• 1:09:33
  what they think is best for themselves.
• 1:09:35
  So if college swimmers think that that's acceptable, OK,
• 1:09:38
  that's what all the college swimmers decided, if you know, I
• 1:09:43
  guess. Would you want your daughter
• 1:09:44
  competing against some big dude? Tell the truth.
• 1:09:50
  If she had no problem with it, I don't care.
• 1:09:52
  It's not like I said. Like I'm always happy to lose.
• 1:09:56
  I know that's not your real answer, no.
• 1:09:58
  It is, I said. I think all the all the all the
• 1:10:01
  organizations should decide for themselves.
• 1:10:04
  If there's a bunch of the other people who are like, I don't
• 1:10:07
  want to look weird, yeah, sure, he can compete with us, the
• 1:10:10
  other gals. But there's the one gal who's
• 1:10:12
  like, it's not fair. Yeah, what should happen in that
• 1:10:14
  situation? They disagree.
• 1:10:19
  It sucks, but if that's what the majority of the other swimmers
• 1:10:21
  agree with, then you know that's the majority of the swimmers
• 1:10:25
  agreed I believe. That's what we had in California
• 1:10:29
  with gay marriage, but look what happened there.
• 1:10:32
  So your standard is not consistent.
• 1:10:34
  Thankfully, that only lasted for a couple of years and then
• 1:10:37
  eventually within a few years of 2008, same sex marriage was
• 1:10:41
  legalized in California. So, you know, like even the
• 1:10:46
  governor of California even recently, I pay attention to
• 1:10:50
  everything he. Said you like him.
• 1:10:53
  Not really. I don't like him.
• 1:10:55
  I don't. See, we have another thing in
• 1:10:56
  common. Yeah, he, he even recently on
• 1:11:00
  his podcast said that, you know, boys compete.
• 1:11:05
  Competing as boys should not be competing against girls or boys
• 1:11:11
  who were born boys should not be competing against girls.
• 1:11:14
  I'll just end it on this. Like I know with every fiber of
• 1:11:17
  my being that my children are happy and that I'm a great
• 1:11:22
  father. I am I the bar.
• 1:11:26
  One of the reasons I'm a great father is because I always feel
• 1:11:28
  like a failure every single day. Like I put the bar so high that
• 1:11:32
  I constantly am not achieving it.
• 1:11:35
  It's like, oh, I could have done this better or I could have done
• 1:11:37
  more of this. I whatever, but but I know that
• 1:11:41
  my kids are thriving. They are good.
• 1:11:45
  They're way better kids than I was, actually.
• 1:11:47
  And that's the goal, to create little humans who are better in
• 1:11:51
  every way than you were. And they are that.
• 1:11:54
  And yeah, you know, thanks for having me on.
• 1:12:01
  Thank you, Perez, I can't thank you enough for your willingness
• 1:12:03
  to come on and just go out, go out the discussion.
• 1:12:06
  Carrie, thank you. I think this was fun.
• 1:12:08
  I really appreciate everyone's time.
• 1:12:10
  We should do this again, but thanks again, Perez and Carrie.
• 1:12:12
  Thank you. Thanks so much everyone for
• 1:12:15
  listening to this episode with Perez and Carrie.
• 1:12:17
  I think I'm going to try to do more content like this to get
• 1:12:19
  different viewpoints on the show, to have a discussion, not
• 1:12:23
  some formal debate structure. I do love those as well.
• 1:12:25
  And we do those a lot on college campuses and things like that.
• 1:12:27
  But I think in this context, just having heart to hearts
• 1:12:29
  where people can ask each other questions and explore
• 1:12:32
  differences on these crucial moral, political, cultural
• 1:12:36
  issues, I think of so much value.
• 1:12:37
  I'm actually going to continue the conversation with Carrie and
• 1:12:40
  just do a little bit of a debrief together.
• 1:12:42
  We're going to do that over on Patreon.
• 1:12:44
  A huge thank you to everybody who's been supporting the show
• 1:12:46
  via Patreon. Every time you support Patreon,
• 1:12:49
  you help our show grow and reach more people, and I'm so grateful
• 1:12:52
  for that. You can go over and become a
• 1:12:54
  supporter at the link in the description.
• 1:12:56
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• 1:12:59
  opportunity to ask feature guests questions that we put in
• 1:13:02
  there. So we'll take Patreon questions.
• 1:13:04
  Thank you all so much and we'll see you next time.
• 1:13:06
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• 1:13:09
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• 1:13:12
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• 1:13:15
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• 1:13:19
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