Latest / The Living Conversation / Sober Herbalist: Non-Alcoholic Medicine, Wellness, and Spiritual Rebellion | Along the Way

Transcript

Sober Herbalist: Non-Alcoholic Medicine, Wellness, and Spiritual Rebellion | Along the Way · The Living Conversation

• 0:00
  Foreign.
• 0:15
  I'm
• 0:15
  Anthony
• 0:16
  Wright
• 0:16
  and
• 0:17
  I
• 0:17
  am
• 0:17
  your
• 0:17
  co
• 0:18
  host
• 0:18
  today
• 0:18
  on
• 0:19
  the
• 0:19
  Living
• 0:19
  Conversation
• 0:20
  with
• 0:21
  Adam
• 0:21
  Dietz.
• 0:22
  Welcome.
• 0:22
  And
• 0:22
  our
• 0:22
  guest
• 0:23
  is
• 0:24
  Drea,
• 0:25
  the
• 0:25
  sober
• 0:26
  herbalist.
• 0:27
  And
• 0:28
  Drea,
• 0:28
  before
• 0:29
  the
• 0:29
  break,
• 0:30
  you
• 0:30
  were
• 0:30
  talking
• 0:31
  about
• 0:32
  how
• 0:32
  profound
• 0:33
  it
• 0:33
  was
• 0:35
  for
• 0:35
  you
• 0:36
  to
• 0:36
  be
• 0:36
  in
• 0:36
  herb
• 0:37
  school
• 0:38
  and
• 0:38
  have
• 0:39
  these
• 0:40
  international
• 0:41
  and
• 0:44
  known
• 0:44
  throughout
• 0:45
  herbalism.
• 0:46
  Talking
• 0:46
  about
• 0:47
  how
• 0:48
  important
• 0:48
  it
• 0:48
  was
• 0:49
  for
• 0:49
  herbalists
• 0:50
  not
• 0:51
  to
• 0:51
  offer
• 0:53
  people
• 0:53
  who
• 0:54
  had
• 0:54
  become
• 0:55
  sober
• 0:55
  these
• 0:56
  tinctures
• 0:56
  that
• 0:57
  had
• 0:57
  alcohol
• 0:57
  in
• 0:58
  them,
• 0:58
  but
• 0:59
  ethanol.
• 1:01
  But
• 1:01
  there
• 1:01
  wasn't
• 1:01
  any,
• 1:03
  anything
• 1:04
  else
• 1:04
  that
• 1:04
  they
• 1:04
  said.
• 1:05
  And
• 1:06
  I'm
• 1:07
  so
• 1:08
  curious
• 1:09
  to
• 1:09
  understand
• 1:10
  about
• 1:11
  what
• 1:11
  your
• 1:12
  journey
• 1:12
  was
• 1:14
  from
• 1:14
  there.
• 1:15
  How
• 1:15
  did
• 1:16
  you
• 1:17
  manage
• 1:18
  them
• 1:18
  to
• 1:21
  continue
• 1:21
  to
• 1:21
  follow
• 1:23
  the,
• 1:26
  the
• 1:26
  heart
• 1:27
  connection
• 1:27
  with
• 1:27
  these
• 1:28
  plants
• 1:29
  and,
• 1:29
  and
• 1:30
  how
• 1:30
  you
• 1:31
  have
• 1:32
  experienced
• 1:33
  their
• 1:33
  love
• 1:33
  and
• 1:34
  what
• 1:34
  they've
• 1:35
  been
• 1:35
  able
• 1:35
  to
• 1:35
  do
• 1:35
  for
• 1:36
  healing?
• 1:38
  What,
• 1:39
  what
• 1:40
  have
• 1:40
  you
• 1:40
  chosen
• 1:41
  as
• 1:42
  the
• 1:42
  next
• 1:43
  steps
• 1:44
  that
• 1:44
  even
• 1:44
  the
• 1:44
  national
• 1:45
  herbalists
• 1:45
  didn't
• 1:45
  do?
• 1:48
  Well,
• 1:48
  it
• 1:48
  was
• 1:48
  necessity.
• 1:49
  Right.
• 1:49
  Because
• 1:50
  I
• 1:50
  wasn't
• 1:50
  just
• 1:50
  doing
• 1:51
  this
• 1:51
  for
• 1:51
  fun.
• 1:52
  I
• 1:52
  was
• 1:53
  trying
• 1:53
  to
• 1:53
  make
• 1:53
  medicine
• 1:54
  to
• 1:54
  help
• 1:54
  myself
• 1:55
  to
• 1:57
  chronic
• 1:58
  illness.
• 1:58
  And
• 1:59
  I
• 1:59
  don't
• 1:59
  just
• 1:59
  have
• 1:59
  Lyme
• 2:00
  disease,
• 2:00
  I
• 2:00
  actually
• 2:00
  have
• 2:01
  the
• 2:01
  Epstein
• 2:01
  Barr
• 2:02
  virus
• 2:02
  too.
• 2:03
  I
• 2:04
  had
• 2:04
  two
• 2:05
  major
• 2:05
  chronic
• 2:06
  illnesses
• 2:08
  coming
• 2:08
  at
• 2:09
  me
• 2:11
  in
• 2:12
  addition
• 2:12
  to
• 2:12
  having
• 2:12
  the
• 2:13
  like,
• 2:13
  hey,
• 2:13
  I'm
• 2:13
  an
• 2:13
  alcoholic.
• 2:14
  That's
• 2:14
  actually,
• 2:15
  actually
• 2:15
  in
• 2:15
  the
• 2:16
  dsm.
• 2:16
  That's
• 2:16
  a,
• 2:16
  that's
• 2:17
  a
• 2:17
  designated,
• 2:18
  you
• 2:18
  know,
• 2:18
  that's
• 2:19
  a
• 2:19
  disease
• 2:19
  too,
• 2:19
  you
• 2:20
  know,
• 2:20
  so
• 2:20
  it
• 2:20
  was
• 2:20
  just
• 2:20
  like,
• 2:21
  here
• 2:21
  I
• 2:21
  am,
• 2:21
  the
• 2:21
  disease
• 2:22
  queen.
• 2:22
  Well,
• 2:23
  and
• 2:23
  I,
• 2:23
  I
• 2:24
  want
• 2:24
  to
• 2:24
  also
• 2:24
  emphasis.
• 2:25
  Emphasize
• 2:26
  this
• 2:26
  idea
• 2:27
  of
• 2:27
  dis.
• 2:27
  Ease.
• 2:28
  Yeah.
• 2:29
  Unease.
• 2:30
  And
• 2:31
  that
• 2:31
  was
• 2:31
  something
• 2:32
  that,
• 2:32
  that
• 2:33
  it,
• 2:33
  it
• 2:34
  really
• 2:34
  seems
• 2:35
  like
• 2:35
  you
• 2:36
  found
• 2:36
  the
• 2:36
  healing
• 2:37
  of
• 2:37
  that
• 2:37
  dis
• 2:38
  ease
• 2:38
  through
• 2:40
  plants,
• 2:41
  through
• 2:41
  wellness,
• 2:42
  through.
• 2:43
  Yes,
• 2:43
  I
• 2:43
  want
• 2:43
  to
• 2:43
  talk
• 2:43
  to
• 2:44
  you
• 2:44
  later
• 2:44
  about
• 2:44
  your
• 2:46
  work
• 2:46
  with
• 2:46
  Noah
• 2:47
  Lavine.
• 2:48
  Oh
• 2:48
  yeah,
• 2:49
  but
• 2:49
  continue
• 2:50
  about
• 2:50
  how
• 2:51
  did
• 2:51
  you
• 2:52
  make
• 2:52
  a
• 2:53
  transition
• 2:53
  from
• 2:55
  what
• 2:56
  the
• 2:56
  herbalists
• 2:57
  had
• 2:57
  been
• 2:57
  doing
• 2:58
  with
• 2:58
  this
• 2:58
  tincture
• 2:59
  into
• 3:00
  a
• 3:00
  new
• 3:02
  modality?
• 3:04
  Yeah,
• 3:05
  well,
• 3:05
  it's
• 3:05
  just
• 3:05
  like
• 3:05
  I
• 3:06
  said,
• 3:06
  I
• 3:06
  was
• 3:06
  trained.
• 3:07
  I,
• 3:07
  I
• 3:07
  have
• 3:07
  a
• 3:07
  degree,
• 3:08
  master's
• 3:09
  degree.
• 3:09
  And
• 3:09
  it
• 3:10
  reminded
• 3:10
  me
• 3:10
  a
• 3:10
  lot
• 3:11
  of
• 3:11
  that
• 3:11
  experience
• 3:12
  of
• 3:14
  the
• 3:14
  first
• 3:14
  few
• 3:15
  times
• 3:15
  I,
• 3:15
  you
• 3:16
  know,
• 3:16
  started
• 3:16
  to
• 3:17
  do
• 3:17
  research
• 3:18
  and
• 3:18
  write
• 3:18
  material
• 3:20
  as
• 3:20
  an
• 3:20
  academic
• 3:21
  and
• 3:22
  become
• 3:22
  a
• 3:22
  scholar.
• 3:23
  I
• 3:23
  was
• 3:24
  taught
• 3:24
  to
• 3:25
  find
• 3:25
  out
• 3:26
  what's
• 3:26
  the
• 3:26
  conversation
• 3:27
  around
• 3:27
  this
• 3:28
  topic.
• 3:28
  And
• 3:28
  so
• 3:29
  I
• 3:29
  began
• 3:29
  research
• 3:30
  in
• 3:30
  my
• 3:30
  field
• 3:31
  to
• 3:31
  find
• 3:32
  out
• 3:32
  what
• 3:32
  people
• 3:32
  were
• 3:33
  talking
• 3:33
  about
• 3:33
  regards
• 3:34
  in
• 3:34
  regards
• 3:35
  to
• 3:35
  non
• 3:35
  alcoholic
• 3:36
  medicine.
• 3:37
  And
• 3:37
  so
• 3:37
  I
• 3:37
  poured
• 3:38
  through
• 3:38
  all
• 3:39
  the
• 3:39
  books,
• 3:40
  I,
• 3:40
  you
• 3:40
  know,
• 3:40
  I
• 3:41
  poured
• 3:41
  through
• 3:41
  all
• 3:41
  the
• 3:42
  web.
• 3:42
  You
• 3:42
  know
• 3:43
  what
• 3:43
  we
• 3:43
  do,
• 3:43
  we
• 3:44
  love
• 3:44
  it
• 3:44
  too.
• 3:44
  I
• 3:45
  mean,
• 3:45
  if
• 3:45
  you're
• 3:45
  really
• 3:45
  into
• 3:46
  research,
• 3:46
  you're
• 3:47
  into
• 3:47
  it
• 3:47
  and
• 3:47
  you
• 3:47
  love
• 3:48
  it
• 3:48
  and
• 3:48
  you
• 3:48
  just,
• 3:48
  you
• 3:48
  want
• 3:49
  to
• 3:49
  rabbit
• 3:49
  hole.
• 3:51
  And
• 3:51
  so
• 3:51
  I
• 3:51
  was
• 3:52
  shocked
• 3:52
  to
• 3:52
  find
• 3:52
  out
• 3:53
  that
• 3:54
  Every
• 3:54
  single
• 3:55
  book
• 3:55
  and
• 3:55
  every
• 3:56
  single
• 3:56
  resource.
• 3:57
  And
• 3:57
  I'm
• 3:57
  not
• 3:57
  exaggerating
• 3:58
  when
• 3:58
  I
• 3:59
  tell
• 3:59
  you
• 3:59
  this.
• 3:59
  In
• 4:00
  fact,
• 4:00
  I
• 4:00
  always
• 4:00
  tell
• 4:01
  people
• 4:01
  like,
• 4:02
  if
• 4:03
  you
• 4:03
  own
• 4:03
  an
• 4:03
  herb
• 4:03
  book,
• 4:04
  please
• 4:04
  open
• 4:04
  it
• 4:04
  up
• 4:04
  and
• 4:05
  see
• 4:05
  about
• 4:06
  that
• 4:06
  section
• 4:06
  where
• 4:06
  they
• 4:07
  talk
• 4:07
  about
• 4:07
  non
• 4:07
  alcoholic
• 4:08
  medicine.
• 4:09
  They're
• 4:10
  gonna
• 4:10
  just
• 4:10
  basically
• 4:11
  say
• 4:11
  that
• 4:11
  it's
• 4:11
  inferior,
• 4:12
  it
• 4:13
  doesn't
• 4:13
  work
• 4:13
  as
• 4:13
  well,
• 4:14
  that
• 4:14
  alcohol
• 4:15
  is
• 4:15
  the
• 4:15
  best,
• 4:17
  that
• 4:17
  you
• 4:17
  really,
• 4:17
  you
• 4:18
  know,
• 4:18
  that
• 4:18
  it's
• 4:18
  just
• 4:18
  like,
• 4:18
  oh,
• 4:19
  that
• 4:19
  other
• 4:19
  medicine
• 4:20
  is
• 4:20
  for
• 4:21
  dogs
• 4:22
  and
• 4:22
  cats
• 4:23
  and
• 4:23
  children
• 4:24
  and
• 4:25
  old
• 4:25
  people
• 4:26
  and
• 4:26
  it
• 4:26
  doesn't
• 4:27
  work
• 4:27
  that
• 4:27
  well,
• 4:27
  but
• 4:27
  you
• 4:28
  can
• 4:28
  give
• 4:28
  it
• 4:28
  to
• 4:28
  them.
• 4:28
  It's,
• 4:29
  you
• 4:29
  know.
• 4:30
  And
• 4:31
  so
• 4:31
  I
• 4:31
  was
• 4:31
  like,
• 4:32
  basically
• 4:33
  I
• 4:33
  encountered
• 4:34
  this
• 4:34
  environment
• 4:34
  of
• 4:35
  like,
• 4:35
  first
• 4:35
  of
• 4:36
  all,
• 4:36
  that
• 4:37
  medicine
• 4:37
  is
• 4:37
  not
• 4:37
  taken
• 4:38
  seriously.
• 4:39
  It's
• 4:39
  not
• 4:40
  considered
• 4:40
  strong,
• 4:41
  it's
• 4:41
  inferior.
• 4:43
  It
• 4:43
  was
• 4:43
  like
• 4:43
  across
• 4:44
  the
• 4:44
  board,
• 4:45
  you
• 4:45
  know,
• 4:48
  othered.
• 4:48
  And
• 4:49
  I
• 4:49
  was
• 4:49
  just
• 4:49
  like,
• 4:50
  of
• 4:50
  course
• 4:50
  this
• 4:50
  just
• 4:51
  made
• 4:51
  me
• 4:52
  more
• 4:52
  hungry
• 4:53
  to
• 4:53
  prove
• 4:54
  them
• 4:54
  wrong.
• 4:56
  And
• 4:56
  so
• 4:56
  that's
• 4:56
  how
• 4:56
  it
• 4:57
  started.
• 4:57
  I
• 4:57
  began
• 4:58
  to
• 4:58
  do
• 4:58
  all
• 4:58
  this
• 4:58
  research
• 4:59
  and,
• 5:00
  and
• 5:00
  then
• 5:01
  also,
• 5:01
  you
• 5:01
  know,
• 5:01
  I
• 5:01
  have
• 5:02
  to
• 5:02
  say
• 5:02
  that
• 5:02
  I
• 5:02
  was
• 5:02
  really
• 5:02
  lucky
• 5:03
  becoming
• 5:03
  a
• 5:03
  western
• 5:04
  herbalist.
• 5:04
  I
• 5:05
  had
• 5:05
  already
• 5:05
  been
• 5:05
  practicing
• 5:07
  these,
• 5:08
  you
• 5:09
  know,
• 5:09
  other
• 5:09
  modalities,
• 5:10
  these
• 5:10
  traditional
• 5:11
  medicines
• 5:11
  with
• 5:12
  thousands
• 5:12
  of
• 5:12
  years
• 5:13
  of
• 5:13
  efficacy
• 5:14
  and
• 5:14
  practices
• 5:15
  and,
• 5:15
  and
• 5:16
  their
• 5:16
  own
• 5:16
  science
• 5:17
  and
• 5:17
  their
• 5:17
  own
• 5:17
  worldviews.
• 5:18
  And
• 5:18
  spirituality
• 5:19
  is
• 5:19
  very
• 5:20
  much
• 5:20
  a
• 5:20
  part
• 5:20
  of
• 5:20
  that.
• 5:21
  And
• 5:22
  so
• 5:22
  I
• 5:22
  was
• 5:23
  really
• 5:23
  coming
• 5:24
  from
• 5:24
  my
• 5:25
  first
• 5:25
  healing
• 5:26
  modalities
• 5:26
  were
• 5:27
  coming
• 5:27
  from
• 5:27
  an
• 5:27
  ex.
• 5:28
  Very
• 5:28
  expansive,
• 5:29
  very
• 5:30
  broad,
• 5:30
  very
• 5:31
  beautiful,
• 5:32
  very
• 5:32
  spiritual
• 5:33
  place.
• 5:34
  And
• 5:34
  what
• 5:34
  I
• 5:35
  was
• 5:35
  really
• 5:35
  coming
• 5:35
  up
• 5:36
  against
• 5:36
  was
• 5:36
  science.
• 5:38
  Simple
• 5:39
  patriarchal,
• 5:41
  you
• 5:41
  know,
• 5:41
  colonizer
• 5:43
  empire,
• 5:44
  chemistry,
• 5:45
  science.
• 5:46
  And
• 5:46
  it's
• 5:47
  measure
• 5:47
  it.
• 5:47
  It
• 5:47
  isn't
• 5:48
  real.
• 5:49
  Yeah.
• 5:49
  And
• 5:50
  they're
• 5:50
  like
• 5:50
  what?
• 5:50
  You
• 5:50
  know.
• 5:51
  Exactly.
• 5:52
  And
• 5:52
  I
• 5:52
  just
• 5:52
  was
• 5:52
  kind
• 5:53
  of
• 5:53
  like,
• 5:53
  well,
• 5:54
  and
• 5:54
  you
• 5:54
  know,
• 5:55
  I'm
• 5:55
  an
• 5:55
  old
• 5:55
  Gen
• 5:55
  Xer
• 5:56
  and
• 5:56
  so
• 5:56
  I
• 5:56
  like
• 5:56
  to
• 5:56
  use
• 5:57
  the
• 5:57
  phrase,
• 5:58
  let
• 5:58
  me
• 5:58
  give
• 5:58
  this
• 5:58
  the
• 5:59
  Pepsi
• 5:59
  Challenge.
• 6:00
  Oh
• 6:01
  no.
• 6:02
  I
• 6:02
  began
• 6:03
  to
• 6:03
  just
• 6:03
  rake
• 6:04
  through
• 6:04
  my
• 6:04
  understanding,
• 6:05
  my
• 6:06
  experience
• 6:06
  of
• 6:07
  all
• 6:07
  these
• 6:07
  other
• 6:07
  medicines
• 6:08
  and
• 6:08
  all
• 6:08
  these
• 6:08
  other
• 6:09
  preparations
• 6:09
  and
• 6:10
  all
• 6:10
  these
• 6:10
  other
• 6:10
  quote
• 6:11
  unquote
• 6:11
  solvents
• 6:12
  is
• 6:12
  the
• 6:12
  word
• 6:12
  they
• 6:13
  use
• 6:13
  to
• 6:13
  make
• 6:14
  preparations
• 6:14
  of
• 6:15
  herbal
• 6:15
  medicine
• 6:15
  that
• 6:16
  are
• 6:16
  strong.
• 6:17
  And
• 6:17
  I
• 6:17
  began
• 6:18
  to
• 6:18
  look
• 6:18
  and
• 6:18
  pour
• 6:18
  through
• 6:19
  that
• 6:19
  whole
• 6:19
  thing
• 6:19
  and
• 6:20
  just
• 6:20
  basically
• 6:20
  find
• 6:21
  all
• 6:21
  the
• 6:21
  evidence
• 6:22
  I
• 6:22
  needed
• 6:23
  to
• 6:24
  build
• 6:24
  an
• 6:24
  entire
• 6:25
  methodology
• 6:26
  for
• 6:26
  making
• 6:27
  strong
• 6:27
  non
• 6:28
  alcoholic
• 6:29
  medicine.
• 6:30
  And
• 6:30
  then
• 6:31
  it
• 6:31
  was
• 6:31
  just
• 6:31
  a
• 6:31
  matter
• 6:31
  of
• 6:31
  doing
• 6:32
  it
• 6:32
  because
• 6:32
  it's
• 6:32
  like
• 6:33
  I
• 6:33
  could
• 6:33
  theorize
• 6:33
  all
• 6:34
  I
• 6:34
  wanted
• 6:35
  to,
• 6:35
  but
• 6:35
  like,
• 6:35
  I
• 6:35
  love.
• 6:36
  What's
• 6:36
  his
• 6:36
  name?
• 6:36
  Buckmeister
• 6:37
  Fuller.
• 6:37
  Yeah,
• 6:38
  it's
• 6:38
  just
• 6:39
  like.
• 6:39
  What
• 6:39
  does
• 6:39
  he
• 6:39
  say?
• 6:39
  He
• 6:40
  says
• 6:41
  if
• 6:41
  you
• 6:42
  want
• 6:42
  to
• 6:42
  create
• 6:42
  something,
• 6:43
  you
• 6:43
  know,
• 6:43
  like
• 6:43
  a
• 6:43
  new
• 6:44
  system,
• 6:45
  you
• 6:45
  can't
• 6:46
  use
• 6:46
  the
• 6:46
  old
• 6:46
  one.
• 6:46
  You've
• 6:47
  just
• 6:47
  got
• 6:47
  to
• 6:47
  make
• 6:47
  your.
• 6:48
  A
• 6:48
  new
• 6:48
  One.
• 6:49
  And
• 6:49
  I
• 6:49
  was
• 6:49
  like,
• 6:50
  okay,
• 6:50
  Bucky,
• 6:51
  I'm
• 6:51
  gonna
• 6:51
  take
• 6:51
  your
• 6:52
  challenge
• 6:52
  up
• 6:52
  and
• 6:52
  I'm
• 6:53
  gonna
• 6:53
  create
• 6:53
  a
• 6:53
  new
• 6:53
  system.
• 6:55
  And
• 6:55
  so
• 6:55
  it
• 6:55
  became,
• 6:56
  you
• 6:56
  know,
• 6:56
  and
• 6:57
  books
• 6:57
  like
• 6:57
  Braiding
• 6:58
  Sweetgrass
• 6:58
  came
• 6:59
  out,
• 7:00
  which
• 7:00
  began
• 7:01
  to
• 7:01
  basically
• 7:02
  support
• 7:03
  what
• 7:03
  I
• 7:03
  was
• 7:04
  doing
• 7:04
  in
• 7:04
  terms
• 7:04
  of,
• 7:05
  like,
• 7:05
  there
• 7:05
  being
• 7:05
  this,
• 7:06
  like,
• 7:06
  difficulty
• 7:07
  with
• 7:07
  reconciling
• 7:08
  science
• 7:09
  and
• 7:10
  indigenous
• 7:10
  and
• 7:11
  spiritual
• 7:11
  wisdom
• 7:12
  and
• 7:12
  this
• 7:13
  connection
• 7:13
  with
• 7:13
  plants
• 7:14
  that.
• 7:14
  That
• 7:14
  exists
• 7:15
  a
• 7:15
  whole
• 7:15
  different
• 7:16
  dimension,
• 7:17
  right?
• 7:17
  And
• 7:17
  so.
• 7:18
  And
• 7:18
  then
• 7:18
  all
• 7:18
  this
• 7:18
  whole
• 7:19
  mushroom.
• 7:20
  The.
• 7:20
  The
• 7:20
  narratives
• 7:21
  of
• 7:21
  the
• 7:21
  mushrooms
• 7:22
  came
• 7:22
  out,
• 7:22
  right?
• 7:22
  The
• 7:23
  whole,
• 7:23
  like
• 7:23
  the
• 7:23
  Milton
• 7:24
  Melvin
• 7:25
  Schildrakes
• 7:25
  and
• 7:26
  the
• 7:26
  Paul
• 7:27
  Stamets
• 7:27
  mycelium
• 7:28
  running.
• 7:28
  And
• 7:29
  then
• 7:29
  the
• 7:29
  great
• 7:30
  metaphor
• 7:30
  of
• 7:30
  the
• 7:31
  mushrooms
• 7:32
  and
• 7:32
  the.
• 7:32
  The.
• 7:33
  The
• 7:33
  consciousness
• 7:34
  of
• 7:34
  plants
• 7:34
  started
• 7:35
  to
• 7:35
  come
• 7:35
  back
• 7:36
  again.
• 7:36
  It
• 7:36
  was
• 7:36
  already
• 7:36
  here
• 7:37
  in
• 7:37
  the
• 7:37
  60s
• 7:37
  with
• 7:38
  the
• 7:38
  Carlos
• 7:38
  Castaneda
• 7:39
  and
• 7:39
  all
• 7:39
  the
• 7:40
  parents,
• 7:41
  McKenna.
• 7:41
  But
• 7:41
  it's
• 7:41
  like,
• 7:42
  really,
• 7:42
  I.
• 7:43
  All
• 7:43
  I
• 7:43
  did
• 7:43
  was
• 7:44
  just
• 7:44
  start
• 7:44
  to
• 7:44
  pick
• 7:45
  up
• 7:45
  some
• 7:45
  very
• 7:45
  good,
• 7:46
  strong
• 7:46
  threads.
• 7:47
  And
• 7:47
  then
• 7:47
  the
• 7:47
  zeitgeist
• 7:49
  was
• 7:49
  doing
• 7:50
  the
• 7:50
  same
• 7:50
  thing.
• 7:51
  And
• 7:51
  then
• 7:51
  it
• 7:51
  was
• 7:51
  about
• 7:52
  the
• 7:52
  conversation
• 7:53
  of
• 7:53
  what
• 7:53
  is
• 7:53
  sobriety?
• 7:54
  And
• 7:54
  that
• 7:55
  has
• 7:55
  changed.
• 7:55
  And
• 7:56
  so
• 7:56
  I
• 7:56
  just
• 7:56
  luckily
• 7:58
  stumbled
• 7:58
  upon
• 7:59
  something
• 7:59
  at
• 7:59
  the
• 8:00
  right
• 8:00
  time,
• 8:00
  at
• 8:00
  the
• 8:00
  right
• 8:01
  moment.
• 8:02
  And
• 8:02
  now
• 8:02
  I'm
• 8:03
  like,
• 8:03
  really
• 8:03
  hoping,
• 8:04
  hoping
• 8:04
  that,
• 8:04
  like,
• 8:05
  you
• 8:06
  know,
• 8:06
  that
• 8:06
  just
• 8:07
  this
• 8:07
  conversation
• 8:07
  that
• 8:08
  I've
• 8:08
  really
• 8:08
  been
• 8:08
  with
• 8:09
  in
• 8:09
  myself
• 8:09
  for
• 8:10
  most
• 8:10
  of
• 8:10
  the
• 8:10
  time
• 8:11
  by
• 8:11
  myself,
• 8:13
  that
• 8:13
  now
• 8:13
  it's
• 8:13
  just
• 8:13
  going
• 8:14
  to
• 8:14
  get
• 8:14
  bigger
• 8:14
  and
• 8:14
  that
• 8:15
  we
• 8:15
  can
• 8:15
  just
• 8:15
  have
• 8:15
  more
• 8:15
  participation
• 8:16
  and
• 8:16
  more
• 8:17
  clarity
• 8:18
  and
• 8:18
  more
• 8:18
  fun.
• 8:19
  Because
• 8:19
  it's
• 8:19
  like,
• 8:19
  can
• 8:20
  we.
• 8:20
  Can
• 8:21
  we
• 8:21
  include
• 8:21
  everybody
• 8:22
  in
• 8:22
  the
• 8:22
  car?
• 8:22
  Can
• 8:23
  we
• 8:23
  include
• 8:23
  all
• 8:23
  the
• 8:24
  possibilities
• 8:24
  and
• 8:24
  all
• 8:25
  the
• 8:25
  medicines
• 8:25
  and
• 8:26
  all
• 8:27
  the
• 8:27
  different
• 8:27
  ways
• 8:27
  and
• 8:28
  make
• 8:28
  them
• 8:28
  all
• 8:28
  valid?
• 8:29
  Because
• 8:29
  they
• 8:30
  are.
• 8:32
  Well,
• 8:32
  I'm
• 8:32
  really
• 8:33
  grateful
• 8:33
  for
• 8:35
  our
• 8:35
  conversation
• 8:36
  to
• 8:36
  be
• 8:37
  able
• 8:37
  to
• 8:37
  open
• 8:37
  this
• 8:37
  up
• 8:39
  and
• 8:39
  to
• 8:39
  have
• 8:40
  these.
• 8:41
  The.
• 8:41
  These
• 8:44
  understandings.
• 8:46
  So.
• 8:50
  Wow.
• 8:54
  So
• 8:54
  what
• 8:54
  say
• 8:55
  you,
• 8:55
  Adam?
• 8:56
  You
• 8:56
  have.
• 8:57
  I
• 8:57
  would
• 8:57
  like
• 8:57
  to
• 8:58
  know.
• 8:59
  I
• 8:59
  have
• 8:59
  a
• 8:59
  whole
• 8:59
  list
• 8:59
  of
• 9:00
  notes
• 9:00
  that
• 9:00
  I'd
• 9:00
  like
• 9:00
  to
• 9:01
  ask
• 9:01
  you
• 9:01
  about.
• 9:01
  But
• 9:02
  the
• 9:02
  main
• 9:02
  thing
• 9:02
  I'd
• 9:03
  want
• 9:03
  to
• 9:03
  know
• 9:03
  is
• 9:04
  you
• 9:04
  had
• 9:05
  quite
• 9:05
  a
• 9:05
  journey
• 9:05
  with
• 9:06
  first
• 9:06
  Buddhism
• 9:07
  and
• 9:07
  then
• 9:07
  Ayurveda.
• 9:09
  And
• 9:09
  I
• 9:09
  would
• 9:09
  like
• 9:10
  to
• 9:10
  know
• 9:10
  if
• 9:11
  through
• 9:11
  this
• 9:12
  whole
• 9:12
  process,
• 9:12
  including
• 9:13
  what
• 9:13
  you've
• 9:13
  described
• 9:13
  to
• 9:14
  us
• 9:14
  as
• 9:15
  becoming
• 9:15
  the
• 9:15
  sober
• 9:16
  herbalist,
• 9:17
  if
• 9:17
  you
• 9:18
  have
• 9:18
  any
• 9:19
  key
• 9:19
  principles
• 9:19
  or
• 9:20
  key
• 9:20
  takeaways
• 9:21
  from
• 9:21
  Buddhism
• 9:22
  or
• 9:22
  Ayurveda
• 9:23
  for
• 9:23
  our
• 9:24
  listeners
• 9:24
  that
• 9:24
  they
• 9:24
  can
• 9:25
  use
• 9:25
  in.
• 9:26
  In
• 9:26
  their
• 9:26
  daily
• 9:27
  life.
• 9:29
  Well,
• 9:30
  sobriety
• 9:30
  is
• 9:30
  about
• 9:31
  abstinence.
• 9:32
  And
• 9:32
  the
• 9:32
  Buddhist
• 9:32
  way
• 9:33
  of
• 9:33
  abstinence
• 9:33
  is
• 9:34
  renunciation.
• 9:36
  And
• 9:36
  so
• 9:37
  it's
• 9:37
  like
• 9:37
  whatever
• 9:38
  is,
• 9:39
  you
• 9:39
  know,
• 9:40
  looking
• 9:40
  at
• 9:40
  your
• 9:41
  attachments,
• 9:42
  you
• 9:42
  know,
• 9:43
  and
• 9:44
  it
• 9:44
  wasn't
• 9:44
  just
• 9:44
  looking
• 9:44
  at
• 9:45
  my
• 9:45
  own
• 9:45
  attachments,
• 9:46
  right.
• 9:46
  I
• 9:46
  had
• 9:46
  to
• 9:46
  look
• 9:46
  at
• 9:47
  how
• 9:47
  herbalism
• 9:47
  was
• 9:48
  attached
• 9:48
  to
• 9:48
  Alcohol.
• 9:50
  And
• 9:50
  I
• 9:50
  had
• 9:51
  to
• 9:51
  recognize
• 9:51
  that
• 9:52
  that's
• 9:52
  just
• 9:52
  a
• 9:52
  relationship.
• 9:53
  It's
• 9:53
  one
• 9:54
  or
• 9:54
  the
• 9:54
  other
• 9:54
  is
• 9:55
  not
• 9:56
  the,
• 9:56
  it's
• 9:57
  not
• 9:57
  bad.
• 9:59
  It
• 9:59
  was
• 9:59
  just
• 9:59
  starting
• 10:00
  to
• 10:00
  understand
• 10:00
  this
• 10:01
  relationship,
• 10:01
  you
• 10:02
  know,
• 10:02
  and
• 10:02
  so
• 10:02
  there,
• 10:02
  there's
• 10:03
  a,
• 10:03
  there's
• 10:03
  a,
• 10:04
  an
• 10:04
  aspect
• 10:04
  of
• 10:05
  those
• 10:05
  practices
• 10:06
  that
• 10:06
  supports
• 10:07
  this
• 10:07
  idea
• 10:08
  of
• 10:08
  being
• 10:09
  detached
• 10:10
  and
• 10:10
  not
• 10:10
  taking
• 10:11
  things
• 10:11
  as
• 10:11
  personally,
• 10:13
  but
• 10:13
  also
• 10:13
  in
• 10:14
  renouncing.
• 10:14
  Right.
• 10:15
  And
• 10:15
  it's
• 10:15
  like,
• 10:15
  well,
• 10:16
  it
• 10:17
  is
• 10:17
  a
• 10:17
  spiritual
• 10:18
  thing
• 10:18
  to
• 10:18
  renounce.
• 10:19
  It
• 10:19
  is
• 10:19
  a
• 10:20
  spiritual
• 10:20
  practice
• 10:21
  to
• 10:21
  renounce
• 10:21
  and
• 10:22
  to
• 10:22
  understand
• 10:22
  our
• 10:23
  relationship
• 10:23
  to
• 10:23
  our
• 10:24
  attachments.
• 10:25
  And
• 10:25
  sometimes
• 10:25
  it's
• 10:25
  not
• 10:25
  just
• 10:26
  about
• 10:26
  attachments,
• 10:26
  it's
• 10:27
  about
• 10:27
  our
• 10:27
  comfor.
• 10:28
  Right.
• 10:28
  When
• 10:29
  we
• 10:29
  do
• 10:29
  mindful
• 10:30
  eating,
• 10:30
  when
• 10:30
  we
• 10:30
  do
• 10:31
  mindful
• 10:31
  breathing,
• 10:32
  we
• 10:32
  do
• 10:33
  mindful
• 10:34
  meditation,
• 10:35
  we're
• 10:35
  not
• 10:35
  just
• 10:36
  examining
• 10:36
  what
• 10:36
  it
• 10:36
  is
• 10:37
  we're
• 10:37
  attached
• 10:37
  to,
• 10:37
  we're
• 10:38
  just
• 10:38
  examining
• 10:39
  life
• 10:39
  as
• 10:39
  it's
• 10:39
  playing
• 10:40
  itself
• 10:40
  out
• 10:41
  in
• 10:41
  the
• 10:41
  sensory
• 10:43
  and
• 10:43
  awareness
• 10:44
  field.
• 10:44
  And
• 10:45
  so
• 10:46
  those
• 10:46
  practices
• 10:47
  have
• 10:47
  always
• 10:48
  just
• 10:49
  completely
• 10:49
  infused
• 10:50
  and
• 10:50
  supported
• 10:51
  this
• 10:52
  sort
• 10:52
  of,
• 10:52
  like,
• 10:53
  I
• 10:53
  want
• 10:53
  to
• 10:53
  say,
• 10:53
  an
• 10:54
  inquiry
• 10:54
  or
• 10:55
  an
• 10:55
  investigative
• 10:56
  kind
• 10:56
  of
• 10:57
  curiosity
• 10:59
  with.
• 10:59
  Instead
• 11:00
  of
• 11:00
  just
• 11:00
  getting
• 11:00
  buried
• 11:01
  and
• 11:01
  victimized
• 11:02
  by
• 11:02
  a
• 11:02
  situation
• 11:04
  of
• 11:04
  saying
• 11:04
  like,
• 11:05
  why,
• 11:05
  why,
• 11:06
  why?
• 11:06
  I
• 11:06
  need
• 11:06
  to
• 11:07
  look
• 11:07
  at
• 11:08
  this
• 11:08
  actually.
• 11:08
  I
• 11:09
  need
• 11:09
  to
• 11:09
  explore
• 11:10
  this.
• 11:11
  I
• 11:11
  need
• 11:11
  to
• 11:11
  take
• 11:12
  a
• 11:12
  breath
• 11:12
  and
• 11:13
  see
• 11:13
  like
• 11:13
  what
• 11:13
  is
• 11:14
  all
• 11:14
  filling
• 11:14
  in
• 11:15
  this,
• 11:15
  what's
• 11:16
  being
• 11:16
  filled
• 11:16
  in
• 11:16
  this
• 11:17
  space
• 11:17
  right
• 11:17
  now
• 11:18
  and
• 11:18
  rather
• 11:19
  being,
• 11:19
  rather
• 11:19
  than
• 11:20
  being
• 11:20
  overwhelmed
• 11:20
  by
• 11:21
  it,
• 11:22
  try
• 11:22
  to
• 11:22
  like
• 11:23
  sit
• 11:23
  for
• 11:23
  a
• 11:23
  second
• 11:23
  with
• 11:24
  it
• 11:24
  and
• 11:24
  be
• 11:24
  curious
• 11:25
  and
• 11:25
  learn
• 11:26
  and
• 11:26
  grow
• 11:27
  and
• 11:27
  then
• 11:27
  become
• 11:28
  hopefully
• 11:28
  inspired
• 11:29
  and
• 11:29
  then
• 11:29
  move
• 11:29
  into
• 11:30
  action.
• 11:31
  So
• 11:31
  it's
• 11:31
  maybe
• 11:32
  a
• 11:33
  bunch
• 11:33
  of
• 11:34
  different
• 11:35
  things.
• 11:35
  Makes
• 11:36
  sense.
• 11:36
  Yeah.
• 11:36
  Thank
• 11:37
  you.
• 11:38
  Well,
• 11:38
  we're
• 11:38
  coming
• 11:38
  up
• 11:38
  on
• 11:39
  another
• 11:39
  break
• 11:39
  here.
• 11:41
  I'm
• 11:41
  Anthony
• 11:42
  Wright
• 11:42
  and
• 11:43
  my.
• 11:44
  You
• 11:44
  can
• 11:44
  contact
• 11:45
  me
• 11:45
  by
• 11:45
  my
• 11:45
  website,
• 11:46
  which
• 11:46
  is
• 11:47
  theonot.com
• 11:49
  and
• 11:50
  Adam,
• 11:51
  yeah,
• 11:51
  you.
• 11:51
  Can
• 11:52
  reach
• 11:52
  out
• 11:52
  to
• 11:52
  me
• 11:52
  with
• 11:53
  any
• 11:53
  kind
• 11:53
  of
• 11:54
  insights
• 11:55
  or
• 11:55
  questions
• 11:55
  or
• 11:55
  comments
• 11:55
  you
• 11:56
  have
• 11:56
  about
• 11:56
  all
• 11:56
  of
• 11:57
  our
• 11:57
  work
• 11:57
  here@deetsatom
• 11:58
  gmail.com
• 12:00
  D
• 12:00
  I
• 12:00
  E
• 12:00
  T
• 12:00
  Z
• 12:01
  Adam,
• 12:02
  one
• 12:02
  word.
• 12:03
  Gmail.com
• 12:03
  of
• 12:04
  course,
• 12:04
  like
• 12:04
  just
• 12:05
  to
• 12:05
  get
• 12:05
  your
• 12:05
  feedback.
• 12:06
  And
• 12:07
  you
• 12:07
  could
• 12:07
  also
• 12:08
  reach
• 12:08
  me
• 12:08
  at
• 12:08
  the
• 12:08
  way
• 12:09
  between
• 12:09
  at
• 12:09
  substack
• 12:11
  and
• 12:11
  that
• 12:11
  has
• 12:11
  all
• 12:11
  my
• 12:12
  links
• 12:12
  and
• 12:12
  socials
• 12:13
  there
• 12:13
  too
• 12:13
  as
• 12:13
  well.
• 12:14
  Andrea,
• 12:17
  contact
• 12:17
  you?
• 12:18
  Yeah.
• 12:18
  Soberherbalist.com
• 12:20
  thanks,
• 12:20
  Anthony.
• 12:21
  Thanks,
• 12:21
  Adam.
• 12:23
  All
• 12:24
  right,
• 12:24
  well,
• 12:24
  we're
• 12:24
  going
• 12:25
  to
• 12:25
  take
• 12:25
  a
• 12:25
  short
• 12:25
  break
• 12:25
  and
• 12:26
  be
• 12:26
  right
• 12:26
  back,
• 12:27
  so
• 12:27
  stay
• 12:27
  tuned.
• 12:36
  Foreign.
• 12:44
  I'm
• 12:44
  Anthony
• 12:44
  Wright
• 12:45
  and
• 12:45
  I
• 12:46
  am
• 12:46
  your
• 12:46
  co
• 12:47
  host
• 12:47
  on
• 12:47
  the
• 12:47
  Living
• 12:48
  Conversation
• 12:48
  with
• 12:49
  Adam
• 12:50
  De
• 12:50
  and
• 12:51
  we
• 12:51
  are
• 12:51
  talking
• 12:52
  with
• 12:53
  Drea
• 12:54
  Sober
• 12:55
  Herbalist.
• 12:57
  And
• 12:58
  before
• 12:58
  the
• 12:58
  break,
• 12:59
  Drea,
• 13:01
  you
• 13:02
  were
• 13:02
  talking
• 13:02
  about
• 13:04
  moving
• 13:05
  from
• 13:06
  one
• 13:06
  modality
• 13:07
  into
• 13:07
  another.
• 13:08
  And
• 13:08
  I
• 13:08
  want
• 13:08
  to
• 13:09
  understand
• 13:11
  before
• 13:13
  we
• 13:13
  begin
• 13:14
  the
• 13:15
  recording
• 13:15
  of
• 13:15
  our
• 13:16
  show
• 13:16
  today,
• 13:17
  you
• 13:17
  Were
• 13:17
  talking
• 13:18
  about
• 13:18
  this
• 13:18
  idea
• 13:19
  of
• 13:19
  wellness.
• 13:22
  Can
• 13:22
  you
• 13:22
  talk
• 13:22
  to
• 13:23
  us
• 13:23
  about
• 13:23
  that?
• 13:23
  And
• 13:24
  then
• 13:24
  also
• 13:24
  you
• 13:25
  have
• 13:25
  studied
• 13:26
  with
• 13:29
  somebody
• 13:29
  who
• 13:29
  I
• 13:29
  had
• 13:30
  interviewed
• 13:30
  named
• 13:31
  Noah
• 13:31
  Lavine.
• 13:33
  And
• 13:33
  what
• 13:33
  a
• 13:34
  radical
• 13:34
  guy.
• 13:34
  You
• 13:35
  said
• 13:35
  you
• 13:35
  were
• 13:35
  a
• 13:35
  punk,
• 13:36
  a
• 13:36
  punk
• 13:36
  rock
• 13:37
  girl.
• 13:38
  And
• 13:38
  boy,
• 13:39
  was
• 13:39
  he
• 13:39
  a
• 13:39
  punk
• 13:40
  rock
• 13:40
  guy.
• 13:41
  He
• 13:41
  wrote
• 13:42
  to
• 13:42
  the
• 13:42
  book
• 13:42
  Dharma
• 13:43
  Punks.
• 13:44
  So
• 13:45
  what's
• 13:45
  your
• 13:45
  experience
• 13:46
  with
• 13:46
  wellness
• 13:46
  and
• 13:47
  with
• 13:47
  Noah
• 13:47
  Levine,
• 13:48
  please.
• 13:50
  Yeah,
• 13:50
  that's
• 13:50
  actually,
• 13:51
  I
• 13:51
  mean,
• 13:51
  it's
• 13:51
  funny
• 13:51
  you
• 13:52
  think
• 13:52
  that
• 13:52
  question
• 13:52
  would
• 13:53
  be
• 13:53
  really
• 13:53
  difficult
• 13:54
  to
• 13:54
  reconcile,
• 13:55
  but
• 13:55
  it's
• 13:55
  not
• 13:55
  because
• 13:56
  like
• 13:57
  for
• 13:57
  many
• 13:57
  years
• 13:58
  Noah
• 13:59
  used
• 13:59
  to
• 14:01
  do
• 14:01
  workshops,
• 14:02
  like
• 14:02
  week
• 14:03
  long
• 14:03
  workshops
• 14:03
  and
• 14:04
  so
• 14:04
  forth
• 14:04
  and
• 14:04
  sometimes
• 14:05
  longer
• 14:05
  ones
• 14:05
  or
• 14:05
  shorter
• 14:05
  ones
• 14:06
  at
• 14:06
  a
• 14:07
  place
• 14:07
  called
• 14:07
  the
• 14:07
  Esalen
• 14:08
  Institute
• 14:08
  in
• 14:08
  Big
• 14:09
  Sur.
• 14:09
  Oh,
• 14:10
  he
• 14:10
  worked
• 14:10
  at
• 14:10
  Esalen.
• 14:11
  He
• 14:11
  didn't
• 14:12
  work
• 14:12
  there
• 14:12
  or
• 14:13
  I
• 14:13
  presented
• 14:13
  at
• 14:14
  Esalen.
• 14:14
  Correct,
• 14:15
  correct.
• 14:17
  And
• 14:17
  that's
• 14:17
  actually
• 14:18
  how
• 14:18
  I
• 14:19
  accessed
• 14:19
  him.
• 14:21
  I
• 14:21
  was
• 14:21
  already
• 14:21
  in
• 14:22
  recovery
• 14:22
  for
• 14:23
  a
• 14:23
  few
• 14:23
  months
• 14:25
  when
• 14:25
  a
• 14:25
  friend
• 14:25
  of
• 14:26
  mine
• 14:26
  who
• 14:26
  was
• 14:27
  curious
• 14:27
  about
• 14:28
  sobriety
• 14:28
  and
• 14:29
  was
• 14:29
  a
• 14:29
  very
• 14:30
  like,
• 14:30
  she
• 14:30
  was
• 14:30
  very
• 14:30
  good
• 14:30
  at
• 14:31
  like
• 14:31
  getting
• 14:31
  a
• 14:31
  lot
• 14:32
  of
• 14:32
  pop
• 14:32
  culture.
• 14:32
  She
• 14:33
  was
• 14:33
  kind
• 14:33
  of
• 14:33
  my
• 14:33
  person
• 14:34
  to
• 14:34
  like,
• 14:35
  so
• 14:35
  what's
• 14:35
  going
• 14:35
  on?
• 14:36
  What's
• 14:36
  the
• 14:36
  latest
• 14:36
  stuff?
• 14:37
  And
• 14:37
  she
• 14:37
  hid
• 14:38
  this
• 14:38
  book
• 14:38
  from
• 14:38
  me
• 14:38
  at
• 14:39
  first.
• 14:39
  And
• 14:39
  I
• 14:39
  was
• 14:40
  like,
• 14:40
  what
• 14:40
  is
• 14:40
  that?
• 14:40
  Give
• 14:41
  it
• 14:41
  to
• 14:41
  me.
• 14:42
  Here
• 14:43
  we
• 14:43
  are
• 14:43
  like
• 14:43
  34
• 14:44
  year
• 14:44
  old
• 14:45
  women
• 14:45
  and
• 14:45
  we're
• 14:45
  at
• 14:45
  the
• 14:46
  beach
• 14:46
  and
• 14:46
  she's
• 14:46
  hiding
• 14:47
  her
• 14:47
  beach
• 14:47
  read.
• 14:48
  And
• 14:48
  I
• 14:48
  was
• 14:48
  like,
• 14:48
  give
• 14:48
  me
• 14:49
  that.
• 14:50
  The
• 14:50
  sober
• 14:51
  punk
• 14:51
  rock
• 14:52
  guy
• 14:52
  writing
• 14:53
  the
• 14:53
  story
• 14:53
  of
• 14:54
  the
• 14:54
  Buddha
• 14:55
  and
• 14:55
  the
• 14:55
  Buddha's
• 14:55
  enlightenment
• 14:56
  and
• 14:56
  journey
• 14:57
  from
• 14:57
  the
• 14:58
  perspective
• 14:58
  and
• 14:58
  in
• 14:59
  the
• 14:59
  language
• 14:59
  of
• 15:00
  like
• 15:00
  street
• 15:01
  punk
• 15:01
  and
• 15:02
  gangster
• 15:02
  talk.
• 15:04
  I
• 15:04
  was
• 15:04
  like,
• 15:05
  get
• 15:05
  me
• 15:05
  that.
• 15:05
  That's
• 15:05
  like
• 15:06
  my.
• 15:06
  Right
• 15:06
  there.
• 15:07
  When
• 15:07
  he's
• 15:08
  sober.
• 15:10
  So
• 15:11
  that's
• 15:11
  how
• 15:11
  I
• 15:11
  found
• 15:11
  out
• 15:11
  about
• 15:12
  him.
• 15:12
  And
• 15:12
  then
• 15:12
  immediately,
• 15:13
  of
• 15:13
  course,
• 15:13
  I
• 15:14
  went
• 15:14
  and
• 15:14
  got
• 15:14
  that.
• 15:14
  And
• 15:14
  that
• 15:15
  was
• 15:15
  his
• 15:15
  book
• 15:15
  called,
• 15:15
  entitled
• 15:16
  against
• 15:16
  the
• 15:17
  Stream.
• 15:18
  Dharma
• 15:19
  Punks
• 15:19
  had
• 15:19
  already
• 15:20
  been
• 15:20
  written
• 15:20
  and
• 15:21
  he
• 15:21
  wrote
• 15:21
  this
• 15:21
  other
• 15:21
  book
• 15:22
  called
• 15:22
  against
• 15:22
  the
• 15:22
  Stream,
• 15:23
  which
• 15:23
  is
• 15:24
  about
• 15:24
  how,
• 15:25
  you
• 15:25
  know,
• 15:25
  doing,
• 15:26
  doing,
• 15:29
  following
• 15:29
  the
• 15:29
  Buddhist
• 15:30
  path
• 15:30
  is
• 15:30
  going
• 15:31
  against
• 15:31
  the
• 15:31
  stream
• 15:32
  in
• 15:32
  the
• 15:32
  sense
• 15:32
  that
• 15:32
  it's
• 15:33
  easy
• 15:33
  to
• 15:33
  just
• 15:33
  sort
• 15:33
  of,
• 15:34
  if
• 15:34
  you
• 15:34
  just
• 15:34
  don't
• 15:34
  examine
• 15:35
  anything
• 15:35
  and
• 15:35
  you
• 15:35
  just,
• 15:36
  just
• 15:36
  do
• 15:36
  what
• 15:36
  everybody
• 15:37
  else
• 15:37
  does
• 15:37
  or
• 15:38
  just
• 15:38
  follow
• 15:39
  along,
• 15:40
  then
• 15:40
  you
• 15:41
  just
• 15:41
  kind
• 15:41
  of
• 15:41
  flow
• 15:41
  with
• 15:42
  everything.
• 15:42
  And,
• 15:43
  and
• 15:43
  then
• 15:43
  if
• 15:43
  you
• 15:43
  kind
• 15:44
  of
• 15:44
  look
• 15:44
  at
• 15:44
  everything
• 15:45
  and
• 15:45
  sort
• 15:45
  of
• 15:45
  challenge
• 15:47
  yourself
• 15:47
  at
• 15:48
  this
• 15:48
  inquiry
• 15:49
  and
• 15:49
  this
• 15:49
  awareness
• 15:50
  that
• 15:50
  it's
• 15:50
  like
• 15:50
  suddenly
• 15:51
  you're,
• 15:52
  you're
• 15:52
  going
• 15:52
  against
• 15:52
  something
• 15:53
  which
• 15:53
  is
• 15:53
  kind
• 15:54
  of
• 15:54
  like
• 15:54
  a
• 15:54
  punk
• 15:54
  rock
• 15:54
  mosh
• 15:55
  pit
• 15:55
  where
• 15:55
  you,
• 15:55
  you
• 15:56
  know,
• 15:56
  there's
• 15:56
  always
• 15:56
  one
• 15:57
  or
• 15:57
  two
• 15:57
  people
• 15:57
  in
• 15:57
  that
• 15:58
  pit
• 15:58
  who
• 15:58
  decide
• 15:59
  to
• 15:59
  go
• 15:59
  the
• 15:59
  opposite
• 15:59
  way
• 16:00
  and
• 16:00
  create
• 16:01
  this
• 16:01
  like
• 16:02
  dissonance
• 16:03
  which
• 16:03
  is
• 16:03
  part
• 16:04
  of
• 16:04
  the
• 16:04
  creative
• 16:05
  Destructive,
• 16:06
  you
• 16:06
  know,
• 16:07
  aspect
• 16:08
  of
• 16:08
  being
• 16:08
  a
• 16:08
  punker
• 16:09
  is
• 16:09
  to
• 16:09
  say,
• 16:10
  I'm
• 16:10
  gonna
• 16:10
  go
• 16:11
  the.
• 16:11
  I'm
• 16:11
  gonna
• 16:12
  rebel.
• 16:13
  You
• 16:13
  know,
• 16:14
  spirituality
• 16:15
  is
• 16:15
  a
• 16:15
  rebellion,
• 16:16
  especially
• 16:16
  in
• 16:16
  our
• 16:16
  day
• 16:16
  and
• 16:17
  age
• 16:17
  where
• 16:17
  it's
• 16:17
  like
• 16:17
  everyone
• 16:18
  kind
• 16:18
  of
• 16:19
  on
• 16:19
  it.
• 16:19
  But
• 16:19
  anyways,
• 16:20
  wellness
• 16:21
  and
• 16:21
  spirit
• 16:21
  and.
• 16:22
  And
• 16:22
  Noah
• 16:22
  Levine
• 16:23
  and.
• 16:23
  And
• 16:24
  all
• 16:24
  that.
• 16:24
  So
• 16:25
  wellness.
• 16:26
  Esalen
• 16:27
  Institute
• 16:28
  is
• 16:28
  a
• 16:28
  very
• 16:28
  great
• 16:29
  institution
• 16:29
  of
• 16:30
  quote,
• 16:30
  unquote,
• 16:30
  wellness.
• 16:31
  And
• 16:32
  I
• 16:32
  use
• 16:32
  the
• 16:32
  word
• 16:32
  institution
• 16:33
  because
• 16:34
  wellness
• 16:34
  capital,
• 16:35
  W
• 16:35
  E
• 16:36
  L
• 16:36
  L
• 16:37
  N
• 16:37
  E
• 16:37
  S
• 16:38
  S
• 16:38
  is
• 16:38
  an
• 16:39
  institution,
• 16:40
  you
• 16:41
  know,
• 16:41
  and
• 16:41
  insulin
• 16:42
  is.
• 16:42
  You
• 16:43
  know,
• 16:43
  they
• 16:43
  call
• 16:43
  himself
• 16:43
  the
• 16:44
  Esalen
• 16:44
  Institute.
• 16:45
  Right.
• 16:46
  I
• 16:46
  think
• 16:46
  called
• 16:47
  themselves
• 16:47
  that
• 16:48
  in
• 16:48
  order
• 16:48
  to
• 16:48
  sort
• 16:48
  of
• 16:49
  like,
• 16:49
  they
• 16:49
  were.
• 16:50
  It
• 16:50
  is
• 16:50
  a
• 16:50
  very,
• 16:51
  like,
• 16:51
  masculine,
• 16:52
  patriarchal.
• 16:53
  Like,
• 16:54
  everyone
• 16:54
  was
• 16:54
  scholars
• 16:55
  and
• 16:55
  academics,
• 16:56
  and
• 16:56
  they
• 16:56
  were
• 16:56
  very
• 16:56
  much
• 16:57
  within
• 16:57
  the
• 16:57
  disciplines.
• 16:58
  And
• 16:58
  so
• 16:58
  when
• 16:58
  they
• 16:58
  called
• 16:58
  themselves
• 16:59
  an
• 16:59
  institute,
• 17:00
  I
• 17:00
  think
• 17:00
  they
• 17:00
  were
• 17:00
  trying
• 17:00
  to
• 17:01
  say,
• 17:01
  like,
• 17:01
  we're
• 17:02
  of
• 17:02
  them,
• 17:02
  but
• 17:03
  we're
• 17:03
  not
• 17:03
  them,
• 17:04
  which
• 17:04
  is
• 17:04
  kind
• 17:05
  of
• 17:05
  cool.
• 17:06
  But.
• 17:07
  Well,
• 17:08
  they're
• 17:08
  going
• 17:08
  to
• 17:08
  be
• 17:08
  carrying
• 17:09
  forward
• 17:09
  with
• 17:09
  a
• 17:09
  certain
• 17:10
  structure
• 17:10
  that's.
• 17:11
  Yes,
• 17:12
  but
• 17:12
  not
• 17:13
  with
• 17:13
  the
• 17:13
  same
• 17:13
  content,
• 17:14
  obviously.
• 17:16
  Yeah,
• 17:16
  they
• 17:16
  went
• 17:16
  about
• 17:17
  it
• 17:17
  in
• 17:17
  pretty
• 17:17
  radical
• 17:18
  way.
• 17:18
  I
• 17:18
  mean,
• 17:18
  Hunter
• 17:19
  S.
• 17:19
  Thompson
• 17:19
  was
• 17:20
  like
• 17:20
  an
• 17:20
  early
• 17:21
  man.
• 17:22
  Yeah,
• 17:22
  he
• 17:23
  was
• 17:23
  hanging
• 17:23
  out
• 17:23
  there
• 17:24
  and
• 17:24
  everyone.
• 17:25
  Wacky
• 17:25
  guy,
• 17:25
  but
• 17:26
  he
• 17:26
  was
• 17:27
  certainly
• 17:27
  radical.
• 17:28
  But
• 17:28
  it
• 17:28
  was
• 17:29
  a
• 17:29
  place
• 17:29
  where.
• 17:30
  Okay,
• 17:30
  and
• 17:30
  this
• 17:31
  is.
• 17:31
  Maybe
• 17:31
  they're
• 17:31
  going
• 17:31
  to
• 17:31
  connect
• 17:32
  to
• 17:32
  wellness,
• 17:32
  but
• 17:32
  it
• 17:32
  was
• 17:33
  a
• 17:33
  place
• 17:33
  that.
• 17:33
  Esalen
• 17:34
  Institute
• 17:34
  was
• 17:34
  a
• 17:34
  place
• 17:35
  where
• 17:35
  you
• 17:36
  could
• 17:36
  be
• 17:36
  a
• 17:36
  scholar
• 17:37
  and
• 17:37
  you
• 17:37
  could
• 17:37
  be
• 17:38
  an,
• 17:38
  like
• 17:38
  an
• 17:39
  astronomer,
• 17:39
  you
• 17:39
  could
• 17:40
  be
• 17:40
  a
• 17:40
  scientist,
• 17:41
  you
• 17:41
  could
• 17:41
  be
• 17:41
  a
• 17:41
  physicist
• 17:43
  and
• 17:43
  you
• 17:43
  could
• 17:43
  be
• 17:43
  a
• 17:44
  psychologist
• 17:45
  and
• 17:45
  you
• 17:46
  could
• 17:46
  be
• 17:46
  a
• 17:46
  body
• 17:46
  worker
• 17:47
  and
• 17:47
  you
• 17:48
  could
• 17:48
  be
• 17:48
  an
• 17:48
  artist.
• 17:49
  Like,
• 17:49
  I'm
• 17:49
  thinking
• 17:49
  of
• 17:50
  somebody
• 17:50
  like
• 17:50
  Moshe
• 17:51
  Feldenkrais
• 17:52
  who
• 17:52
  was
• 17:52
  like,
• 17:53
  you
• 17:54
  know,
• 17:54
  he
• 17:54
  was
• 17:54
  a
• 17:54
  philosopher,
• 17:55
  and
• 17:56
  yet
• 17:56
  he
• 17:56
  created
• 17:56
  this,
• 17:57
  like,
• 17:57
  deeply
• 17:58
  profound
• 17:58
  bodywork,
• 18:02
  this
• 18:02
  whole,
• 18:02
  like,
• 18:03
  neuromuscular
• 18:04
  modality
• 18:04
  that
• 18:05
  the.
• 18:06
  Using
• 18:06
  the
• 18:06
  word
• 18:06
  like
• 18:07
  somatics,
• 18:07
  which
• 18:07
  is
• 18:08
  a
• 18:08
  huge
• 18:08
  word
• 18:09
  in
• 18:09
  wellness
• 18:09
  now.
• 18:13
  So
• 18:14
  it's
• 18:14
  very
• 18:14
  interesting,
• 18:14
  the
• 18:15
  interplay.
• 18:15
  But
• 18:15
  anyways,
• 18:16
  wellness
• 18:16
  is
• 18:17
  a.
• 18:19
  No,
• 18:19
  it's
• 18:19
  just
• 18:19
  like
• 18:20
  you
• 18:20
  were
• 18:20
  talking
• 18:20
  about
• 18:20
  earlier,
• 18:21
  that
• 18:21
  you're
• 18:21
  getting
• 18:22
  an
• 18:22
  MBA
• 18:22
  and
• 18:23
  you're
• 18:23
  talking
• 18:23
  about
• 18:23
  branding,
• 18:24
  and
• 18:24
  it's
• 18:25
  like
• 18:25
  wellness,
• 18:26
  you
• 18:26
  know,
• 18:26
  in
• 18:26
  the
• 18:27
  context
• 18:27
  of
• 18:27
  capitalism
• 18:28
  in
• 18:28
  the
• 18:29
  West.
• 18:29
  You
• 18:29
  know,
• 18:30
  unfortunately,
• 18:30
  it's
• 18:31
  subject
• 18:31
  to
• 18:31
  all
• 18:31
  of
• 18:31
  that,
• 18:32
  but
• 18:33
  it
• 18:33
  comes
• 18:33
  from
• 18:34
  a
• 18:34
  very
• 18:34
  long
• 18:35
  thousands
• 18:36
  and
• 18:36
  thousands
• 18:37
  of
• 18:37
  year
• 18:39
  tradition
• 18:39
  of
• 18:40
  people's
• 18:40
  daily
• 18:41
  healing
• 18:41
  practice.
• 18:42
  Because
• 18:42
  they
• 18:43
  didn't
• 18:43
  have
• 18:44
  a
• 18:44
  medical
• 18:44
  industrial
• 18:45
  complex
• 18:46
  surrounding.
• 18:47
  That's
• 18:47
  right.
• 18:47
  Had
• 18:48
  the
• 18:48
  plants
• 18:49
  and
• 18:50
  the
• 18:50
  tools
• 18:51
  and
• 18:51
  their
• 18:51
  bodies
• 18:53
  and
• 18:53
  maybe
• 18:53
  some
• 18:53
  food
• 18:54
  and
• 18:55
  some
• 18:55
  substances
• 18:56
  like
• 18:56
  oils
• 18:57
  and,
• 18:58
  you
• 18:58
  know,
• 18:59
  plants
• 18:59
  and
• 19:00
  things
• 19:00
  like
• 19:00
  that.
• 19:01
  They
• 19:01
  had
• 19:01
  very
• 19:01
  few
• 19:02
  things.
• 19:02
  And
• 19:02
  they
• 19:02
  were
• 19:03
  like,
• 19:03
  well,
• 19:03
  how
• 19:03
  do
• 19:04
  we
• 19:04
  Take
• 19:04
  care
• 19:04
  of
• 19:04
  ourselves.
• 19:06
  What
• 19:06
  do
• 19:06
  we
• 19:06
  do
• 19:06
  when
• 19:06
  we
• 19:06
  get.
• 19:07
  And
• 19:08
  so
• 19:08
  that's
• 19:08
  what
• 19:08
  wellness
• 19:09
  originally
• 19:09
  was,
• 19:10
  was
• 19:10
  just
• 19:10
  like,
• 19:10
  what
• 19:11
  do
• 19:11
  I
• 19:11
  do
• 19:11
  when
• 19:11
  I
• 19:11
  get
• 19:12
  sick?
• 19:12
  And
• 19:13
  now
• 19:13
  it's
• 19:13
  this
• 19:14
  like,
• 19:14
  you
• 19:14
  know,
• 19:15
  big
• 19:15
  industry.
• 19:17
  Well,
• 19:17
  and,
• 19:18
  and
• 19:20
  usually
• 19:21
  the
• 19:22
  healers
• 19:24
  were
• 19:24
  the,
• 19:24
  the
• 19:25
  shaman
• 19:26
  and,
• 19:28
  and
• 19:28
  wise
• 19:28
  women
• 19:30
  who
• 19:30
  were
• 19:32
  on
• 19:32
  the
• 19:32
  edge
• 19:32
  of
• 19:33
  the
• 19:33
  community.
• 19:34
  And
• 19:37
  there's
• 19:37
  a
• 19:37
  term
• 19:37
  called
• 19:38
  beyond
• 19:38
  the
• 19:38
  pale.
• 19:39
  And
• 19:39
  the
• 19:40
  paling
• 19:40
  was
• 19:40
  the,
• 19:41
  the,
• 19:42
  the
• 19:43
  fence
• 19:43
  around
• 19:44
  the
• 19:44
  community,
• 19:46
  but
• 19:46
  they
• 19:46
  were
• 19:47
  out
• 19:47
  beyond
• 19:48
  that
• 19:49
  into
• 19:49
  the
• 19:50
  wild
• 19:51
  and
• 19:52
  attending
• 19:53
  and
• 19:54
  allowing
• 19:54
  their
• 19:55
  awareness
• 19:56
  to
• 19:56
  be
• 20:01
  blended
• 20:03
  with
• 20:04
  the
• 20:04
  wild.
• 20:05
  Yeah.
• 20:06
  And
• 20:06
  they
• 20:06
  were
• 20:06
  often
• 20:06
  non
• 20:07
  binary.
• 20:08
  I
• 20:09
  didn't
• 20:09
  know
• 20:09
  that.
• 20:09
  Which
• 20:10
  is
• 20:10
  very
• 20:10
  important
• 20:11
  for
• 20:11
  people
• 20:11
  to
• 20:11
  understand
• 20:12
  is
• 20:12
  that
• 20:12
  like
• 20:13
  the
• 20:13
  biggest,
• 20:13
  most
• 20:14
  respected,
• 20:15
  you
• 20:15
  know,
• 20:16
  community
• 20:16
  of
• 20:17
  healers
• 20:17
  were
• 20:17
  non
• 20:18
  binary
• 20:18
  people.
• 20:19
  And,
• 20:20
  and
• 20:20
  from
• 20:20
  the
• 20:20
  perspective
• 20:21
  of
• 20:21
  our
• 20:21
  Uveda,
• 20:22
  we
• 20:22
  call
• 20:22
  them
• 20:22
  two
• 20:22
  spirit
• 20:24
  because
• 20:24
  they
• 20:25
  have
• 20:25
  this
• 20:25
  like
• 20:25
  very
• 20:26
  pronounced
• 20:26
  masculine
• 20:27
  and
• 20:28
  feminine
• 20:29
  energy,
• 20:29
  which
• 20:30
  is
• 20:30
  evidenced
• 20:31
  even
• 20:31
  on
• 20:31
  their
• 20:32
  pulses.
• 20:32
  Because
• 20:32
  we
• 20:33
  take
• 20:33
  two.
• 20:33
  Two
• 20:34
  pulses
• 20:34
  and
• 20:34
  it's
• 20:35
  like
• 20:35
  there's
• 20:35
  two
• 20:35
  different
• 20:36
  spirits
• 20:37
  residing
• 20:37
  within
• 20:38
  a
• 20:38
  person.
• 20:39
  And
• 20:39
  so
• 20:39
  they
• 20:39
  were
• 20:40
  even
• 20:40
  like,
• 20:40
  you
• 20:41
  know,
• 20:42
  non
• 20:42
  binary
• 20:43
  in
• 20:43
  the
• 20:43
  sense
• 20:43
  that
• 20:43
  they
• 20:44
  presented
• 20:44
  as
• 20:44
  like
• 20:45
  masculine,
• 20:46
  feminine.
• 20:47
  Right.
• 20:48
  The
• 20:48
  shape
• 20:48
  shifting.
• 20:49
  So
• 20:49
  they
• 20:49
  even
• 20:50
  stood
• 20:50
  outside
• 20:50
  of
• 20:51
  the
• 20:51
  order
• 20:51
  of
• 20:53
  man,
• 20:53
  woman.
• 20:56
  Yeah.
• 20:56
  You
• 20:57
  know,
• 20:57
  talk
• 20:58
  about
• 20:58
  wild.
• 20:59
  Oh
• 20:59
  boy.
• 21:00
  And
• 21:00
  I
• 21:01
  have
• 21:01
  a,
• 21:02
  a
• 21:02
  question.
• 21:04
  Right
• 21:04
  now
• 21:05
  In
• 21:06
  August
• 21:06
  of
• 21:07
  2025,
• 21:10
  we
• 21:10
  are
• 21:11
  in
• 21:11
  the
• 21:12
  midst
• 21:12
  of
• 21:12
  a
• 21:13
  very
• 21:13
  difficult
• 21:15
  situation
• 21:17
  in
• 21:17
  our
• 21:18
  country.
• 21:19
  There
• 21:19
  is
• 21:19
  a
• 21:19
  lot
• 21:20
  of
• 21:20
  dis.
• 21:20
  Ease.
• 21:22
  Unease.
• 21:24
  Do
• 21:24
  you
• 21:24
  have
• 21:25
  any
• 21:26
  suggestions
• 21:27
  for
• 21:27
  our
• 21:28
  listeners
• 21:28
  and
• 21:28
  viewers?
• 21:30
  And
• 21:30
  Adam,
• 21:31
  maybe
• 21:32
  you
• 21:32
  might
• 21:32
  have
• 21:32
  something
• 21:33
  too
• 21:33
  about
• 21:35
  how
• 21:35
  do
• 21:35
  we
• 21:37
  retain
• 21:39
  a
• 21:39
  grounded
• 21:42
  awareness?
• 21:45
  Well,
• 21:45
  there's
• 21:45
  so
• 21:46
  many
• 21:47
  people
• 21:47
  out
• 21:47
  there.
• 21:50
  Is
• 21:50
  there
• 21:50
  something
• 21:51
  that's
• 21:51
  really
• 21:51
  quite
• 21:52
  straightforward
• 21:52
  and
• 21:53
  simple
• 21:53
  to
• 21:53
  do?
• 21:54
  Actually,
• 21:54
  yeah.
• 21:55
  I'm
• 21:55
  about
• 21:56
  to
• 21:56
  actually
• 21:56
  go
• 21:57
  down
• 21:57
  in
• 21:57
  September
• 21:58
  to
• 21:59
  Eugene,
• 21:59
  Oregon
• 22:00
  to
• 22:00
  do
• 22:01
  like
• 22:01
  a
• 22:01
  video
• 22:01
  blog
• 22:02
  for
• 22:02
  a
• 22:02
  very
• 22:02
  famous
• 22:05
  herbal
• 22:05
  company
• 22:06
  called
• 22:06
  Mountain
• 22:06
  Rosa
• 22:07
  Herbs.
• 22:07
  And
• 22:07
  the,
• 22:08
  the
• 22:08
  marketing
• 22:09
  people
• 22:09
  were
• 22:09
  like,
• 22:09
  can
• 22:10
  you
• 22:10
  come
• 22:10
  down
• 22:10
  and
• 22:10
  talk
• 22:10
  about.
• 22:11
  Are
• 22:12
  you.
• 22:12
  Can
• 22:13
  you
• 22:13
  talk
• 22:13
  about
• 22:13
  lymphatic
• 22:14
  herbs
• 22:15
  and
• 22:15
  this
• 22:15
  Ayurveda,
• 22:16
  you
• 22:17
  know,
• 22:17
  bodywork
• 22:18
  thing
• 22:18
  that
• 22:18
  you
• 22:19
  used
• 22:19
  to
• 22:19
  do
• 22:19
  and
• 22:19
  that
• 22:20
  you
• 22:20
  teach.
• 22:20
  And
• 22:20
  I
• 22:20
  was
• 22:21
  like,
• 22:21
  sure.
• 22:22
  So
• 22:22
  I
• 22:22
  think
• 22:22
  one
• 22:22
  of
• 22:22
  the
• 22:23
  deepest
• 22:23
  and
• 22:23
  most
• 22:23
  profound
• 22:24
  things
• 22:24
  that
• 22:24
  people
• 22:25
  can
• 22:25
  actually
• 22:25
  do
• 22:26
  right
• 22:26
  now
• 22:26
  is
• 22:26
  to
• 22:26
  like
• 22:27
  touch
• 22:27
  their
• 22:27
  bodies,
• 22:29
  to
• 22:29
  literally
• 22:30
  like
• 22:31
  bathe.
• 22:32
  Bathe
• 22:32
  themselves
• 22:33
  consciously
• 22:34
  and
• 22:35
  to
• 22:35
  touch.
• 22:37
  And
• 22:37
  this
• 22:37
  has
• 22:38
  just
• 22:38
  to
• 22:38
  do
• 22:38
  with
• 22:38
  embodiment
• 22:41
  disconnection
• 22:42
  from
• 22:42
  our.
• 22:43
  You
• 22:43
  know,
• 22:43
  you
• 22:43
  were
• 22:43
  talking
• 22:43
  about
• 22:44
  disease.
• 22:45
  Disease
• 22:46
  is
• 22:46
  also
• 22:47
  disembodied.
• 22:49
  And
• 22:50
  I
• 22:50
  share
• 22:50
  that
• 22:51
  from
• 22:51
  the
• 22:51
  perspective
• 22:51
  of
• 22:52
  someone
• 22:52
  who
• 22:52
  was
• 22:52
  an
• 22:53
  alcoholic
• 22:53
  who
• 22:54
  was
• 22:54
  trying
• 22:55
  to
• 22:55
  disembody
• 22:57
  numb
• 22:57
  because
• 22:58
  of
• 22:58
  this
• 22:58
  disease.
• 22:59
  Right.
• 22:59
  And
• 22:59
  it's
• 23:00
  like
• 23:00
  anytime
• 23:00
  we're
• 23:01
  in
• 23:01
  A
• 23:01
  position.
• 23:01
  And,
• 23:02
  like,
• 23:02
  that's
• 23:02
  what
• 23:02
  I
• 23:02
  did,
• 23:03
  too,
• 23:03
  as
• 23:03
  an
• 23:03
  herbalist,
• 23:04
  when
• 23:04
  I
• 23:04
  was
• 23:04
  like,
• 23:04
  look,
• 23:05
  I
• 23:05
  need
• 23:05
  to
• 23:05
  make
• 23:06
  a
• 23:06
  way
• 23:06
  here.
• 23:07
  And
• 23:07
  politics
• 23:08
  and
• 23:08
  patriarchal
• 23:10
  structures
• 23:11
  and
• 23:12
  power
• 23:12
  relations
• 23:13
  are
• 23:13
  trying
• 23:14
  to
• 23:14
  prevent
• 23:14
  me
• 23:15
  from
• 23:15
  accessing
• 23:16
  healing.
• 23:18
  And
• 23:18
  I
• 23:18
  knew
• 23:18
  what
• 23:19
  stands
• 23:19
  out
• 23:19
  of
• 23:19
  politics.
• 23:20
  My
• 23:20
  body,
• 23:21
  my
• 23:21
  senses.
• 23:23
  And
• 23:23
  so
• 23:23
  embodiment
• 23:24
  to
• 23:24
  me
• 23:24
  is
• 23:25
  a
• 23:25
  key
• 23:25
  place
• 23:26
  for
• 23:26
  the
• 23:27
  individual
• 23:28
  to
• 23:28
  reconnect
• 23:29
  with
• 23:29
  the
• 23:31
  whole,
• 23:32
  but
• 23:32
  also
• 23:33
  through
• 23:33
  the
• 23:34
  physical
• 23:34
  self.
• 23:35
  And
• 23:36
  when.
• 23:36
  And
• 23:36
  the
• 23:36
  Buddha
• 23:37
  taught
• 23:37
  that
• 23:37
  as
• 23:37
  far
• 23:38
  as
• 23:38
  I
• 23:38
  understand,
• 23:38
  in
• 23:38
  my
• 23:39
  experiences
• 23:39
  and
• 23:40
  my
• 23:40
  teachings,
• 23:41
  we
• 23:41
  have
• 23:41
  this
• 23:41
  ideas
• 23:42
  of
• 23:42
  metta.
• 23:44
  Metta,
• 23:45
  loving
• 23:45
  kindness,
• 23:45
  and
• 23:46
  the
• 23:46
  practices
• 23:46
  of
• 23:46
  the
• 23:47
  brahma
• 23:47
  viharas,
• 23:48
  which
• 23:48
  have
• 23:48
  to
• 23:48
  do
• 23:48
  with,
• 23:49
  like,
• 23:49
  how
• 23:49
  we
• 23:49
  love,
• 23:51
  practicing
• 23:51
  love
• 23:52
  in
• 23:52
  all
• 23:52
  these
• 23:52
  different
• 23:53
  ways.
• 23:53
  And,
• 23:53
  like,
• 23:53
  it
• 23:54
  starts
• 23:54
  with
• 23:54
  you,
• 23:55
  and
• 23:55
  you
• 23:55
  cannot
• 23:56
  change
• 23:57
  and
• 23:57
  love
• 23:57
  and
• 23:58
  embrace
• 23:58
  the
• 23:58
  world
• 23:59
  if
• 23:59
  you're
• 23:59
  not
• 23:59
  changing
• 24:00
  and
• 24:00
  embracing
• 24:01
  and
• 24:01
  loving
• 24:01
  yourself.
• 24:02
  And
• 24:02
  so
• 24:02
  it's
• 24:02
  like,
• 24:02
  in
• 24:02
  my
• 24:03
  opinion,
• 24:03
  the
• 24:03
  first
• 24:04
  thing
• 24:04
  you
• 24:04
  can
• 24:04
  do
• 24:04
  is,
• 24:04
  like,
• 24:05
  to
• 24:06
  lovingly
• 24:07
  care
• 24:07
  for
• 24:07
  your
• 24:07
  body
• 24:08
  as
• 24:08
  much
• 24:08
  as
• 24:08
  you
• 24:09
  can.
• 24:09
  That's
• 24:09
  hard
• 24:10
  for
• 24:10
  people.
• 24:10
  There's
• 24:11
  a
• 24:11
  lot
• 24:11
  of
• 24:11
  trauma
• 24:12
  that
• 24:12
  divides
• 24:12
  us
• 24:13
  from
• 24:13
  that
• 24:13
  task.
• 24:14
  But
• 24:15
  we
• 24:15
  won't
• 24:15
  change
• 24:15
  if
• 24:16
  we
• 24:16
  don't
• 24:16
  attempt
• 24:17
  and
• 24:17
  we
• 24:17
  don't
• 24:17
  become
• 24:17
  aware
• 24:18
  of
• 24:18
  that
• 24:18
  trauma.
• 24:19
  And
• 24:19
  at
• 24:19
  least
• 24:19
  you
• 24:19
  become
• 24:20
  aware
• 24:20
  of
• 24:20
  it
• 24:20
  if
• 24:20
  you
• 24:21
  do
• 24:21
  touch
• 24:21
  your
• 24:21
  body
• 24:21
  and
• 24:22
  you
• 24:22
  realize
• 24:22
  in
• 24:22
  the
• 24:23
  midst
• 24:23
  of,
• 24:23
  like,
• 24:24
  putting
• 24:24
  an
• 24:24
  oil
• 24:25
  on
• 24:25
  your
• 24:25
  arm
• 24:26
  or
• 24:26
  putting,
• 24:26
  you
• 24:27
  know,
• 24:27
  a
• 24:27
  salve
• 24:27
  on
• 24:27
  your
• 24:28
  hands
• 24:28
  or
• 24:28
  even
• 24:29
  massaging
• 24:29
  your
• 24:29
  scalp,
• 24:30
  if
• 24:30
  you
• 24:31
  suddenly
• 24:31
  realize
• 24:31
  that
• 24:32
  that's.
• 24:32
  There's
• 24:33
  dissonance
• 24:33
  there,
• 24:34
  this
• 24:34
  is
• 24:34
  hard,
• 24:34
  or
• 24:35
  I'm
• 24:36
  experiencing
• 24:36
  trauma
• 24:37
  or
• 24:38
  whatever,
• 24:38
  there's
• 24:38
  all
• 24:38
  sorts
• 24:39
  of
• 24:39
  different
• 24:39
  possibilities.
• 24:40
  But
• 24:40
  I
• 24:40
  think
• 24:40
  that's
• 24:41
  probably
• 24:41
  one
• 24:41
  of
• 24:41
  the
• 24:41
  biggest
• 24:42
  profound
• 24:42
  things
• 24:42
  that
• 24:43
  a
• 24:43
  person
• 24:43
  can
• 24:43
  do.
• 24:44
  It's
• 24:44
  like,
• 24:44
  you
• 24:44
  tune
• 24:45
  pianos,
• 24:46
  You've
• 24:46
  got
• 24:46
  to
• 24:46
  listen
• 24:47
  deeply.
• 24:48
  Oh,
• 24:48
  boy.
• 24:49
  And
• 24:49
  you
• 24:49
  know
• 24:50
  when
• 24:50
  something's
• 24:50
  out
• 24:50
  of
• 24:51
  tune
• 24:51
  because
• 24:51
  you're
• 24:51
  in
• 24:52
  that
• 24:52
  listening,
• 24:53
  and
• 24:53
  it's
• 24:53
  like
• 24:53
  the
• 24:53
  same
• 24:54
  thing
• 24:54
  goes
• 24:54
  for
• 24:54
  your
• 24:55
  body.
• 24:55
  Like,
• 24:55
  I
• 24:56
  know
• 24:56
  when
• 24:56
  something's
• 24:57
  out
• 24:57
  of
• 24:57
  tune.
• 24:57
  When
• 24:57
  I'm,
• 24:58
  like,
• 24:58
  breathing
• 24:59
  or
• 24:59
  scrubbing
• 24:59
  myself
• 25:00
  or
• 25:00
  doing
• 25:01
  massage
• 25:01
  or
• 25:02
  I'm
• 25:02
  attending
• 25:03
  to
• 25:03
  my
• 25:03
  flesh
• 25:04
  and
• 25:04
  my.
• 25:05
  And
• 25:05
  my
• 25:05
  physical
• 25:06
  needs
• 25:06
  and
• 25:06
  my,
• 25:07
  you
• 25:07
  know,
• 25:07
  my
• 25:07
  body's
• 25:08
  processes
• 25:09
  and
• 25:09
  my
• 25:09
  systems,
• 25:10
  you
• 25:10
  know,
• 25:10
  I
• 25:11
  learn
• 25:11
  what's
• 25:11
  out
• 25:12
  of
• 25:12
  harmony,
• 25:13
  but
• 25:14
  only
• 25:14
  because
• 25:14
  I'm
• 25:14
  listening
• 25:15
  and
• 25:15
  I'm
• 25:15
  spending
• 25:15
  that
• 25:16
  moment.
• 25:19
  Wow.
• 25:21
  Yeah,
• 25:22
  that's.
• 25:22
  That's
• 25:22
  maybe
• 25:23
  what
• 25:23
  I
• 25:23
  would
• 25:23
  say.
• 25:25
  No,
• 25:25
  this
• 25:25
  is
• 25:25
  really
• 25:26
  great.
• 25:26
  And
• 25:27
  I'll
• 25:27
  say
• 25:27
  that
• 25:27
  from
• 25:27
  an
• 25:28
  abstract.
• 25:29
  You
• 25:29
  know,
• 25:29
  I
• 25:29
  didn't
• 25:30
  learn
• 25:30
  that
• 25:30
  anywhere.
• 25:31
  I
• 25:31
  was
• 25:31
  desperate
• 25:31
  and
• 25:32
  I
• 25:32
  was
• 25:32
  scared,
• 25:32
  and
• 25:33
  a
• 25:33
  little
• 25:33
  village
• 25:34
  healing
• 25:34
  collective
• 25:35
  told
• 25:35
  me
• 25:35
  to
• 25:35
  go
• 25:35
  home.
• 25:37
  And
• 25:37
  in
• 25:37
  the
• 25:37
  midst
• 25:38
  of
• 25:38
  my
• 25:38
  Deep,
• 25:38
  deep
• 25:39
  chronic
• 25:40
  pain
• 25:40
  and
• 25:40
  illness.
• 25:41
  And
• 25:41
  you
• 25:41
  know,
• 25:41
  just
• 25:42
  talk
• 25:42
  about
• 25:42
  being
• 25:42
  disembodied
• 25:43
  in
• 25:43
  the
• 25:44
  midst
• 25:44
  of
• 25:44
  Lyme
• 25:44
  disease.
• 25:45
  It's
• 25:45
  a
• 25:45
  horribly
• 25:46
  painful,
• 25:47
  painful
• 25:48
  experience.
• 25:50
  And
• 25:50
  they
• 25:50
  were
• 25:51
  like,
• 25:51
  touch
• 25:52
  yourself.
• 25:52
  Put
• 25:52
  oil.
• 25:53
  Scrub
• 25:53
  your
• 25:54
  body.
• 25:54
  Use
• 25:55
  this
• 25:55
  tool.
• 25:56
  They
• 25:57
  were
• 25:57
  like,
• 25:58
  touch
• 25:59
  your
• 25:59
  pain.
• 25:59
  They
• 26:00
  were
• 26:00
  like,
• 26:00
  go
• 26:00
  there.
• 26:01
  And
• 26:02
  I
• 26:02
  was
• 26:02
  like,
• 26:02
  I'm
• 26:02
  afraid.
• 26:03
  And
• 26:03
  they're
• 26:03
  like,
• 26:03
  just
• 26:04
  try,
• 26:04
  we'll
• 26:05
  go
• 26:05
  with
• 26:05
  you.
• 26:05
  You
• 26:05
  know,
• 26:06
  like.
• 26:07
  And
• 26:07
  it
• 26:07
  was
• 26:07
  like,
• 26:07
  wow,
• 26:08
  yeah,
• 26:08
  this
• 26:08
  is
• 26:09
  painful
• 26:10
  times,
• 26:11
  but
• 26:11
  we
• 26:12
  gotta
• 26:12
  go
• 26:12
  there.
• 26:12
  Maybe
• 26:13
  this
• 26:13
  is
• 26:13
  where
• 26:13
  we
• 26:13
  start.
• 26:14
  I
• 26:14
  don't
• 26:14
  know.
• 26:14
  That's
• 26:15
  how
• 26:15
  it
• 26:15
  started
• 26:15
  for
• 26:15
  me.
• 26:16
  That
• 26:16
  was
• 26:16
  the
• 26:16
  revolution
• 26:17
  was
• 26:18
  that
• 26:18
  I
• 26:18
  began
• 26:18
  to
• 26:18
  touch
• 26:19
  my
• 26:19
  pain.
• 26:20
  Wow,
• 26:22
  that's
• 26:22
  really
• 26:22
  incredible.
• 26:23
  I'm
• 26:23
  sorry
• 26:24
  that
• 26:24
  we're
• 26:24
  at
• 26:24
  the
• 26:24
  end
• 26:25
  of
• 26:25
  the
• 26:25
  show
• 26:25
  here
• 26:25
  and
• 26:26
  we'd
• 26:26
  like
• 26:27
  to
• 26:27
  continue
• 26:27
  this
• 26:28
  at
• 26:28
  another
• 26:29
  point
• 26:29
  here.
• 26:31
  I
• 26:31
  would
• 26:32
  love
• 26:32
  to
• 26:32
  have
• 26:32
  you
• 26:32
  come
• 26:32
  back.
• 26:34
  I'm
• 26:35
  Anthony
• 26:35
  Wright
• 26:35
  and
• 26:36
  I've
• 26:36
  been
• 26:36
  your
• 26:36
  co
• 26:36
  host
• 26:37
  today
• 26:37
  with
• 26:38
  Adam
• 26:39
  Dietz.
• 26:39
  Thanks
• 26:39
  for
• 26:40
  stop.
• 26:40
  Been
• 26:40
  talking
• 26:41
  with
• 26:42
  the.
• 26:43
  With
• 26:43
  the
• 26:43
  sober
• 26:44
  herbalist.
• 26:45
  You
• 26:45
  can
• 26:46
  contact
• 26:46
  me
• 26:46
  at
• 26:47
  my
• 26:47
  website,
• 26:48
  theonot.com
• 26:50
  T-H-E-O-N-A-U-T.com
• 26:52
  and
• 26:53
  Adam,
• 26:53
  how
• 26:53
  can
• 26:53
  people
• 26:54
  contact
• 26:54
  you?
• 26:55
  Yeah,
• 26:55
  you
• 26:55
  guys
• 26:56
  see
• 26:56
  right
• 26:56
  now
• 26:56
  how
• 26:56
  awesome
• 26:57
  it
• 26:57
  is
• 26:57
  to
• 26:57
  expand
• 26:57
  the
• 26:58
  conversation,
• 26:58
  so
• 26:58
  please
• 26:59
  do
• 26:59
  so@deetsadamgmail.com
• 27:03
  and
• 27:04
  you
• 27:04
  can
• 27:04
  also
• 27:05
  find
• 27:05
  me
• 27:05
  at
• 27:06
  the
• 27:06
  way
• 27:06
  between
• 27:07
  substack.com
• 27:08
  deets
• 27:08
  Adam,
• 27:09
  D
• 27:09
  I
• 27:09
  E
• 27:09
  T
• 27:10
  Z
• 27:11
  and
• 27:11
  Andrea.
• 27:12
  How
• 27:12
  can
• 27:12
  people.
• 27:13
  Or
• 27:13
  Drea.
• 27:14
  Excuse
• 27:14
  me,
• 27:14
  how
• 27:14
  can
• 27:14
  people.
• 27:15
  Either
• 27:15
  one
• 27:15
  works.
• 27:16
  I'm@sberherbalist.com
• 27:18
  and
• 27:18
  I
• 27:19
  just
• 27:19
  really
• 27:19
  appreciate
• 27:20
  both
• 27:20
  of
• 27:20
  you.
• 27:21
  It's
• 27:22
  a
• 27:22
  real
• 27:22
  testimony
• 27:23
  when
• 27:23
  you're
• 27:23
  willing
• 27:23
  to
• 27:23
  talk
• 27:24
  to
• 27:24
  someone
• 27:24
  who's
• 27:25
  just
• 27:25
  kind
• 27:25
  of
• 27:25
  like
• 27:26
  a
• 27:26
  real
• 27:26
  peripheral
• 27:27
  character.
• 27:28
  And
• 27:28
  so
• 27:29
  I
• 27:29
  appreciate
• 27:29
  your,
• 27:30
  your
• 27:30
  questions
• 27:31
  and
• 27:31
  your
• 27:31
  presence.
• 27:32
  You're
• 27:32
  outside
• 27:33
  the,
• 27:35
  outside
• 27:35
  the
• 27:36
  panel
• 27:37
  and
• 27:37
  we're
• 27:37
  very
• 27:37
  grateful
• 27:38
  for
• 27:38
  that.
• 27:39
  All
• 27:39
  right,
• 27:39
  thank
• 27:39
  you
• 27:39
  so
• 27:40
  much
• 27:40
  for,
• 27:41
  for
• 27:41
  listening
• 27:42
  and
• 27:42
  we
• 27:43
  will
• 27:43
  see
• 27:43
  you
• 27:43
  next
• 27:43
  time.