Latest / Cinema Yūgen / Out of the Darkness: Joe Hollow on Independent Filmmaking and Horror

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Out of the Darkness: Joe Hollow on Independent Filmmaking and Horror · Cinema Yūgen

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  G'day. That's right, it's that time again.
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  Time for Cinema Yuga! We'll be right back.
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  Music.
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  Yes, welcome back, Cinema Yuga and guest this week, Joe Hollow,
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  the mighty Joe Hollow, as the 74-time international award-winning writer,
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  producer, director, actor,
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  editor with 21 award wins for Best Feature Film, known for his unique creative
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  vision and intense passion.
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  His background in music contributes to his accomplishments as an award-winning
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  film score creator and composer, adding to a very diverse and impressive skill set.
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  He has worked with a lot of the greats in horror.
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  Check the links in the description and now welcome him to talk about filmmaking
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  and his new film, Flesh of the Unforgiven.
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  Please welcome to Cinema Yugen, now the mighty Joe Hollow.
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  G'day Joe. Thanks buddy, it's good to be here. Mate, first of all,
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  congratulations. I got to watch your film last night, Flesh.
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  Of the unforgiven and i have to say straight off the bat first of all well done
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  fantastic horror movie but it's it's weird that i just i mean really recently
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  like a couple of days prior to getting the screener for this i reviewed a film
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  in which debbie who's also in your,
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  film was in another film called the in-betweeners which was very good too it was.
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  It was about struggling or a
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  struggling filmmaker or the struggles of filmmaking
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  of which you probably know quite a lot about joe tell us about the the struggles
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  of independent filmmaking from your point of view mate well where do you start
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  i mean you gotta tell us about the road to success joe you gotta go through
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  the learning process which is really what i did i didn't you know i go to film school or,
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  you know, I, I mean, I guess I've always been an artist.
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  You start on paper, you know, but then I spent most of my life as a musician.
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  And then I owned a studio for 16 years where I was an audio engineer.
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  And more or less i just jumped into
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  film i mean it's something i always wanted to do and you
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  know i was talking to somebody that was out in california about potentially
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  doing like a music video kind of thing so i
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  had him direct it we hired a bunch of
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  people and that went well actually that was the i worked with courtney gaines
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  from children of the corn on that and that's where i met the late cleave hall
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  and cleave if anybody's not aware he was a master of practical effects.
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  And we were you know at the end of the day he you know
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  he had asked me he says joey says you you're going to finish this
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  thing and i said well i don't know he's well if you do he said
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  you got to come back and you got to direct and i
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  didn't i didn't know the first thing about directing i
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  didn't know the first thing about the film business but he said you
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  know he says brother you've been doing it all day he says you're doing
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  it from the back and he's going out and portraying your voice he says just
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  go after it so you know I did I just
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  kind of jumped into it and you know that's where you make all your mistakes
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  especially my first few films you know you're trying to write and produce and
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  direct and you're wearing so many hats you know it was it was a tough first
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  getting to go you know it took really 10 years before I straightened myself out.
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  And how the business has changed since then hey
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  yeah well i stepped away for a
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  good amount of time and then you come back and it's just like you said
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  it's it's a new platform it's completely different than what it was back then
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  my last film before jumping into this one was 2014 yeah yes it's it's a playing
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  field that is never fair nor is it ever steady because there's always There's innovation.
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  There's always a myriad of other things. I mean, we have gone through probably
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  one of the most turbulent times with the pandemic, and then on top of that, strikes.
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  And then on top of that, you figure or configure AI into the mix now,
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  which is this wonderful device which allows human beings not to think.
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  Yeah. You mentioned COVID.
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  That was that was a big blow too because right around
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  that time i was gonna come back
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  and and do a film and that's when covet hit so it really it shut everything
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  down yeah and i was lucky at the time i had a friend down in texas mark hansen
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  actor he was in the family film that i did back in 2012 and he was doing like
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  a family style more of a faith-based christmas.
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  Then it was a whole series, you know, it was going to be 10, 15 episodes.
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  So that was kind of fun to do. So I used COVID to actually move over from where
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  I was using Final Cut and I learned DaVinci.
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  Oh, okay. So that's what started moving me into that direction.
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  And it was a lot of fun, that project.
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  But, you know, it took six, seven months editing, getting hands on.
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  That really, that allowed me to step up to the plate, move it into this.
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  You know because with flesh of the unforgiven you're
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  probably i'm sure you're aware the budget was was so low you
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  know we only went to that with eight thousand dollars so you gotta
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  you there's you gotta do a lot of work you gotta do everything so you can't
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  you can't screw it because my friend and filmmaker not sure whether you know
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  todd sheets but todd's always saying you have to what is it uh he said it really
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  well last time i spoke to him do you have to deliver the laundry where you have to deliver, you know,
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  it doesn't matter what you, it doesn't matter how much you've got or the resources
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  that you have or characters that you have at your disposal.
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  If you make a statement, I'm going to do this, then you have to deliver the
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  promises, you know, regardless of the kit that you have at your disposal.
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  Do you think that's true? Yeah, absolutely.
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  Especially if it's a horror movie. Now, a comedy is a different thing.
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  A comedy can just be not funny.
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  But if a horror movie is disappointing, I mean, do you find having made horror
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  films that horror fans are very –.
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  I don't know are they are they picky or are
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  they well horror fans are very diverse right
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  you know it's such a big community i mean you've got
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  those that that want to have a lot of this they
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  want to have a lot of that they don't want to hear this they don't want to see
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  that you know so i mean the size of the community
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  it's you know it's hit or miss a little bit i don't know if you could really
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  make that perfect horror film right you
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  know i mean when we were young it was all fresh to us so
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  when you see the shining or you see the
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  exorcist it's like my god this is the
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  greatest thing i've ever seen you know today you
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  know i mean you think about how the movies were back then and
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  if you want to go back even a little farther you know and get
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  into the late 60s and the 70s and you see how they
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  changed over from the 80s to
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  the 90s to what it is now after the millennium you know
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  it's tough to just say i'm going to go after this specific
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  genre of horror fan yes because i
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  mean as you say there are so many and so many the sub
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  genres which which are the order of the day how do you like for instance when
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  you were starting off and and what was some of the films i mean you've already
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  mentioned the exorcist and and some of the classic what's what were some of
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  the probably more contemporary horror films that influenced you and your.
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  Your style or as far as the films that you wanted
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  to make anyway you know i mean it's really
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  hard to say i've been asked that question before and you
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  know i don't even know if i really have a favorite horror film
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  the same with music you know
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  i'm so yeah well i mean i mean not necessarily
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  a favorite or a top four or whatever but a film
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  or a group of films or even a filmmaker that uh
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  whose work inspired you to well you
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  know i i had there were a few different critics on this
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  time around after doing flesh that said
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  that they got hints of hellraiser and nightmare on
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  elm street you know i absolutely love those movies
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  so maybe you know secretly maybe they do inspire you
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  a little bit you know i mean i can't
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  i can't just say that going into flesh and starting
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  to to write that i had any specific film in mind you know it just it just kind
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  of cunts to you now this your character in this film has a terrible case of
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  of writer's block is that something that you have struggled with.
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  Before hence the reason as a writer
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  i think you always make that turn you know you're always
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  going to have your moments of it's just it's just not today right
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  you know you got to learn to just kind of put it down
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  and and pick it up when you're inspired you know you
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  can't really force yourself to it's not happening but it's
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  due on monday that's there you go.
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  I mean i remember doing flesh it was you know
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  i think i was more inspired getting through it i
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  had the i had the idea of where i was going to
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  go from point a to point b and plus i have
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  a great partner in dave and dexler and he
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  was there with me every step of the way so i mean there
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  were even you know when you watch the film i don't want to
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  give anything away but there was something crucial that i had written
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  in that script you know where he said joe you
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  know you can't do that you have to do this i wish i could just say
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  it because you know people that haven't seen the film yet they
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  may think to themselves i wonder if so i don't i don't
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  want to say anything but you know i was
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  so inspired going through that script luckily i
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  didn't really face a lot of writer's block with
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  flesh of the unforgiven plus i was working a day job so i
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  i'm driving a bus now during the day to
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  keep money coming in you know i've got a wife and two kids and you
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  know coming back after the covid deal everything is
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  so tough mine was so tough i had to take on a full-time
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  day job so i'm driving in the morning and then
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  i get a little bit of a break and then i go back in the afternoon so i'm
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  driving the bus and trying to stay focused but i've got the script on the brain
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  and i'm writing and then i'm wrapping it up getting back on the bus and dropping
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  the kids off i'm coming back home i'm writing i get to spend an hour with my
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  wife have some dinner look at the script before i go to bed and 8 p.m.
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  Down 5 a.m. back up so i was lucky with flesh of the unforgiven but writer's
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  block absolutely you you definitely get it it's i don't think you could avoid
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  it i think every writer whether being poor or great you're going to run into
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  some sort of writer's block,
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  now it's it's very much the unromantic side
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  of filmmaking i mean when you you do enough interviews and
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  you talk to people and they say i'm in the film business and oh
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  right yeah and and there's an
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  automatic sort of thing when you talk about it with regular people
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  who aren't in the business and when you say the film business automatically
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  they think oh you drive a mercedes-benz you live in a big house money is not
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  your issue but there's a there's a as i say to people there's a whole different
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  side to the film business i mean i remember a man.
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  Talking about actually an Australian bloke I met. I can't remember his name
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  right now. But he actually went to the Academy Awards one year.
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  And he said, you know, mate. I said, what was it like? He says, I'll tell you the truth.
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  He said, Hollywood is a big facade, right?
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  He said, on this side of the screen, everything's beautiful.
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  You go behind that curtain, there's a bloke with a hairy chest smoking a cigarette. There's rubbish.
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  There's stars trying to fix their makeup there's
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  people swearing it's the most unglamorous thing
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  behind the curtain you know what i mean
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  so no look i i empathize
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  with you i've met many filmmaker that has
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  had to juggle real life as well
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  as his real life and i
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  give you a lot of props for for doing that because this film
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  the flesh of the unforgiven although made for
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  very little money is incredibly impactful i
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  loved your performance debbie of course you don't
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  you don't shrink from the gore there were moments in
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  here where i thought of event horizon oddly
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  enough mainly mainly that's mainly mainly
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  that's because the not to give anything away but
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  because of the video in this and he
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  watches okay of the yeah of the
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  video footage only because i remember
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  when that film first came out i remember that particular footage like this footage
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  that they eventually find of the crew that have had this massive satanic blood
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  orgy if you will and they eventually piece it together and find out you know
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  the secret that uh those those elements i found were.
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  Were very good and also the your films kind of have a little bit more of the uh supernatural,
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  element as opposed to i mean you've got the gore as well but is the supernatural
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  is the sort of the stephen kingy supernatural element that is that something that you uh.
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  Is that something that I what? The supernatural element that Stephen King kind
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  of, you know, because it seems like this is a, this is part of a broader canvas, this story or a broader.
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  Well, you know, the, the idea of it really actually started,
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  you know, I want to say probably in 2009 when, you know, going back to the first question that you get.
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  I mean, when I, when I started and I jumped into directing, I wanted to create
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  this, this world that evolved around this death dealer.
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  And I saw these different types of characters and, you know,
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  I guess, you know, there is a comparison there.
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  And I see it now with the critics when it comes to Hellraiser and the Cenobites and.
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  You know, but I, I saw something different, something that was a little
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  broader where each of these demons or
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  minions if you say they have a past
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  they have a history they have a individual storyline
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  themselves they're not just props in the
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  film and you know so i really i i
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  i've been stewing on the idea of doing it and
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  i shot something back in 2010 my very
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  first attempt it was a failure miserably
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  and when i came back to this
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  and i was working with a producer friend
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  a Nick Rompre up in Canada and she
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  had all these locations and she wanted to do this and she wanted to do that
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  and somewhere along the line it it just it it sparked me in the butt in the
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  the combination of what I had and and something that we were discussing we wanted
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  to do and I said you know what I don't have a lot of money I mean again we only
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  went in with eight thousand dollars.
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  So we really had to rely on a lot of that that drama that Debbie Rashan you
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  know what she brought to the film and try to create this supernatural side with
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  the Death Dealer and these different,
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  you know, supernatural beings.
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  And obviously I can only kill four of them.
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  But I mean, I think that whole thing, it's really, it's been with me for about 15 years or more. Yeah.
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  And I mean, I would have liked to have come out with it with a half a million dollar budget.
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  You know, that would have been fantastic. You know, to have that,
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  you know, amazing backdrop everywhere you go and these, you know,
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  fantastic names and the big stars and, but I'm proud of it. I really think we
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  did a good job with Flesh.
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  Yeah. But I mean, you, that's not to, to, aside from Debbie,
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  you've worked, you talk about big names, you've worked with some great names,
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  the late, great Tony Todd, among them.
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  Bill moseley michael barryman yeah just
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  that's that's pretty incredible it's a pretty incredible
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  lineup you know i mean some independents don't
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  get the luxury of of getting anyone with with such experience but they're either
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  restricted to friends or acting students looking for credits or whatnot i mean
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  obviously that's a huge draw when you're an independent filmmaker to have people with you know,
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  marketable names like Linnea Quigley and such.
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  Yeah, Linnea's a sweetheart. You know, we all grew up to, you know,
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  some of these faces that you've mentioned, you know, Tony especially,
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  Angus Grimm, obviously Phantasm.
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  And when I first started doing The Family, you know, that's when I met Tony
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  and I brought Tony and Michael Berryman and Kane Hodder in to do that film.
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  And, you know, tony and i we stayed
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  in touch and going into disciples you
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  know again really my my second film still learning
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  how to be a script writer mind you still learning how to be a producer i mean
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  so many failures on so many levels i'm so glad we at least get to walk out of
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  that with a film and you know i grew up to you know when you want to step outside
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  of horror some of the my favorite films are like The Godfather.
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  You know, Shawshank Redemption.
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  I mean, and these movies are, they're epic, they're powerful,
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  and the dialogues are powerful.
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  And it was very hard to see how I'm going to cast some of this,
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  you know, especially, you know, with disciples bringing in these individual
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  demons that were, you know, supposed to be Lucifer's highest counsel.
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  And I saw this, I mean, look at the performance Al Pacino gives you in The Devil's Advocate.
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  You know, you wouldn't expect something like that really in a horror element.
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  That's some, I mean, just that dialogue between him and Keanu Reeves at the end of the film.
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  I mean, it's stuff like that that really inspires me.
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  So working with Tony and, you know, drawing up these dialogues,
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  I'm saying, oh, am I going to hire him?
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  To do something like this. And I had this conversation with Linnea Twigley and
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  she said, well, Joe, she goes, who do you have in mind?
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  I said, well, if we had the money, Sean Connery and Christopher Lambert.
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  And she says, oh, whoa, I said, well, you know, we have Tony.
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  I said, how am I going to, you know, I mean, this is dialogue that had to be
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  because this one character that turned out to be Angus Sprimm that was cast for that.
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  They were he was dying and they they had
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  these quotes going back and forth of great men
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  their final last words and it you know it was
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  mickey avelli and henry the eighth and i'm
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  thinking who am i gonna get and it was linnea that came
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  out she says well what about angus i says
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  angus i said i i said would he even
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  take my call linnea contacted him
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  he did call and you know he was honest he.
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  Says joe he says you know i'm i'm in my mid 80s now
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  he says i do have a legacy i said it's not
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  very likely i'm going to take this script he said
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  but i promised linnea and i'm going to read your script and
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  when he came back he said it's a
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  shame hollywood couldn't see this
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  script he said it has so much potential and
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  he said the writing that and we still had a
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  quabble a little bit back and forth because he said i will take the role
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  but he said i'm too expensive for this
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  movie we went back if what a true gentleman angus
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  was and finally he took
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  it and then i had that that great scene
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  with him and tony at the end just really
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  remarkable i mean that you know that's what really drove me
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  to get specific faces in that film it
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  wasn't the the drive to say
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  you know look at this cast it's going to be the expendables of
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  horror it's just this role was brink
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  this role was for linnea and
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  it was something we had never seen her in i needed this tough guy you know that
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  had to play one of these you know some of the the filler scenes and i didn't
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  want to have an average and i couldn't get bill mosley off the brain so that's
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  how we ended up getting bill you know and Then there was also Nick Principe.
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  I don't know if you remember him from some of Robert Green's films. Yeah, sure. Sure.
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  But, you know, growing up with some of these faces and then actually working
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  with them was a very surreal experience.
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  Yeah, I can only imagine.
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  It's one thing to watch them naughty and naughty on a little screen.
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  But when you're standing next to them on a set and they're waiting for direction,
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  I can only imagine that moment of like, well, I'm nerding out a little bit,
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  but I've got to be a professional. Is that how it goes?
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  Yeah, and you know, going back there just a little bit, Tony, he was such a humble guy.
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  And you think Tony, he's so big, he's a little intimidating.
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  He was such a humble guy. And he really wanted to work with Angus.
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  When we shot that film, I mean, Tony was, from the very beginning,
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  and I didn't think we were going to get him.
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  And I kept telling Tony, you know, I don't think he's, you have to get Angus,
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  we have to do, i have to shoot this film with angus he really
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  went and i've got some pictures from that set behind the
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  scenes i'll send you some after the interview thank you and it's
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  just tony and angus so many candid moments together just just talking and you
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  know it's some of the moments like that that really make those experiences special
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  because they're of course they're legends they're some of our heroes but they're
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  people yeah you know and that's what always that's what always makes me smile.
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  Under my smile at the film business is when you meet, as you have.
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  Or get to interview some of your screen idols, and the first thing they do is
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  they start to tell you stories about working with their idols.
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  And I guess what I love about it the most is then when they start talking like
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  that, that brings them down. We're all now on the same level.
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  We're all just a bunch of movie nerds who love movies.
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  And and these guys that we we want
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  and we aspire to be are exactly the same you
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  know because they tell you stories of like you know
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  i'm like you were just saying you know tony todd really wanted to work with
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  angus scrimp right i mean i've
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  told this story before when i was interviewing tim thomason and i
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  knew that he had a very small part in a sam or
• 23:19
  sam peckinpah's last film and so right near
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  the end of the interview i asked him i said okay tim tell us your
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  sam peckinpah story and he's like well
• 23:27
  let me tell you the wild bunch for me was church
• 23:30
  so whatever sam peckinpah was going to
• 23:33
  ask me to do i was going to do right so
• 23:36
  he turns up to the set this day because his friend who was actually working
• 23:41
  on the picture organized him to show up so they show up and he's going to play
• 23:46
  cop which he does he's a motorcycle cop and so he comes up and And there's,
• 23:51
  he said, and there's Sam Peckinpah.
• 23:53
  And this is how Tim Thomas is. And he looks exactly like Sam Peckinpah.
• 23:58
  He's got the glasses. He's got the bandana.
• 24:01
  He's got a flask, which could be full of water or something else. Right.
• 24:07
  And Sam Peckinpah turns to him and he says, I want you to get on that bike.
• 24:11
  And he said, you see that brick wall over yonder?
• 24:14
  I want you to ride as hard as you can hard and fast. And I want you to slide.
• 24:18
  And I want you to slide on the bike and roll the bike right into the brick wall.
• 24:22
  And there's a pause a silence as Tim Thomason is standing there taking all this
• 24:28
  in because he thought he was just coming on to be an extra in a Sam Peckinpah movie,
• 24:33
  so there's silence and then all of a sudden Sam Peckinpah and his mate just
• 24:37
  fucking break and he's just like it's okay,
• 24:40
  it's fine we were just messing with you we just want you to ride up and you're
• 24:45
  going to pull over the car and we'll do the wide shot and then we'll come in
• 24:47
  and do your close ups don't worry but But he said, you know, the scary thing,
• 24:52
  Joe, he said, the scary thing is for 10 seconds, I thought about riding that
• 24:57
  bike, even though I'm not a stuntman, as hard and as fast as I could into that
• 25:00
  wall because Sam Peckinpah told me to.
• 25:04
  Right, right. and let's face it if you had the chance if you had the chance
• 25:09
  if I had the chance like if I had you know Sam Perkins Palmer wanted me to do
• 25:13
  something in a film which was you know reckless and,
• 25:18
  possibly hazardous I would in fact.
• 25:21
  Because it's him because it's him
• 25:24
  i might consider it so links
• 25:28
  will be in the description ladies and gentlemen to check
• 25:31
  out joe and all of his work flesh of the unforgiven
• 25:34
  joe where can the audience where are we
• 25:37
  going to be able to see this wonderful new film right now it's streaming on
• 25:42
  amazon prime video on apple tv we were very surprised and lucky that it came
• 25:48
  out so fast it was very unexpected i I didn't think it would have been out until
• 25:52
  potentially September.
• 25:54
  So I'm hoping by September there'll be quite a few more platforms that it'll be rolling on.
• 26:01
  But right now it's Amazon Prime Video and Apple TV.
• 26:04
  There you go. Amazon Prime Video, Apple TV, flesh of the unforgiven.
• 26:10
  Joe Hollow, that master of the macabre, he makes these masterful works for very little money,
• 26:15
  but he has a whole lot of passion and a lot of talent
• 26:18
  behind the darkness very inspiring
• 26:22
  joe mate we thank you here cinema
• 26:26
  yugen tries to praise and support
• 26:29
  uh the work of tireless independent creators such as yourself so well done for
• 26:36
  working your way through all the trials and tribulations and for people listening
• 26:40
  yes some filmmakers actually have other jobs other than than filmmaking to keep the home fires burning.
• 26:48
  But that joe you can tell them that shouldn't stop
• 26:51
  your creativity no that's right you got to
• 26:54
  keep driving follow your dreams man there you
• 26:57
  go you heard it from the man himself flesh of the
• 27:00
  unforgiven joe hollow check all the links in
• 27:03
  the description so joe have you got anything else that you've
• 27:07
  got on the boil that you'd like to plug no i
• 27:10
  think that was great and i thank you kent brother for everything
• 27:13
  i really appreciate you and everything you do yes joe hollow
• 27:16
  ladies and gentlemen great blog great filmmaker check all
• 27:19
  the links in the description flesh of the unforgiven
• 27:23
  and all of the great stuff joe has got coming
• 27:25
  up and re-releasing joe hollow check the links in the description now and as
• 27:33
  always my little eugenites thank you for listening to us on spotify or wherever
• 27:39
  you choose to listen to your favorite podcasts i'm ket hill and until next time
• 27:43
  you've been listening to Cinema,
• 27:46
  Zero Games.
• 27:50
  Music.