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Our Biggest Fat Loss Struggles (And How We Manage Them) · Beyond Fat Loss

• Katie & Sean Darlow: Welcome to the Beyond Fat Loss podcast, where we don't just stop at fat loss, you'll learn about all the good stuff that follows. How to build muscle, how to enjoy more food, and how to stay lean without going to extremes. We are your hosts, Sean and Katie, and today we're going to be bringing our own experience to the table. In just two months, we'll be starting our own aggressive diets. So in this episode, we're going to share some of our best strategies for managing our biggest weaknesses when it comes to fat loss. By listening to this episode, you'll pick up some handy tips on how to keep hunger down to a minimum, how to add more taste to foods without costing you a meal worth of calories, and how to keep nutrition enjoyable despite it being really simple and repeatable. So here it goes. Before we go into the podcast, let's take this opportunity to point the finger of blame at one another here. What's he going to come up with now? I've been waiting for this moment for so long. talk one compliment for each other about how we handle a fat loss phase and one complaint we have about each other when it comes to handling a fat loss phase. Just one complaint? If you let me have more than one, we might be here quite a long time, you know? So say. So go on then, you can kick us off. One compliment and one complaint. I'm not sure if I want to go first. Okay. I can go first. You've literally been itching to get us out, you? It's all I've been thinking We might be divorced after this conversation. It's I've been thinking about all week. We might be divorced after this conversation. Okay, come on then, throw it me. Okay. What's your biggest complaint and biggest compliment? What, you'll complain first? or. OK, well they both link together, right? Griff, man. I him today, guys. I trusted Griff to behave while we were recording this podcast. I've given him one chance and he's brought me Sid the Snake. Mum, if you're listening, Sid the Snake is going to be the death of me. Sid the Snake's now in the podcast. And so Griff's tail wag. OK, ⁓ so ⁓ I'm to start with a compliment. For most of the day, and notice how I'm saying for most of the day. Choose your words carefully here, sir. I probably couldn't tell if you were in a calorie deficit or not, unless I knew. I think that your work ethic in a calorie deficit is amazing. I think that the way that you can just keep plugging away with day-to-day tasks, day-to-day responsibilities, client work, your training. You take all of that in your stride and just get it done. And the standard doesn't really drop much at all, if at all. And I think that's really impressive. And I take a lot of inspiration from that. So I have got to give credit to you for that. My complaint that I know you're in a calorie deficit because most of the time you won't stop moaning about it. But I say on her last calorie deficit. ⁓ I'm angel. You said you wanted one complaint. I I'm sure people will be able to figure this out as the podcast goes on, the type of things that you moan about when you're in a calorie deficit. If you were silenced, I would probably not tell for most of the day that you were in a calorie deficit. But as soon as you open your mouth, I can tell. Norted. No, you just get on with it. And even when you're moaning and even when you're clearly having a hard time accepting that you've got hunger or that you're tired or whatever, you still get on with things as best as you can. So that's really, that's credit to you to be fair. Yeah, my compliment and my complaint. I probably would agree with those. Because I ⁓ just into a bit of a robot and go. But there are certain things that I miss that I have a whinge about for sure. In fairness, your last calorie deficit, which was an aggressive diet, that's the least you've ever complained in fat loss. I think partly that's due to the fact that it was less time. I think that the hunger was suppressed more. ⁓ I think you knew what you were getting yourself into from the start with it being an aggressive approach. just think mentally there was that switch where you were almost expecting it to be really hard, but then it wasn't quite as hard as you expected. So yeah, ⁓ changed. So I'm hoping that... ⁓ that will be a long-term change when it comes to how you approach your calorie deficits moving forward. I think you're right. me, how long you've got to be in a deficit or in the fat loss phase four that I used to hate. I always used to play about with the timeframes that I would do them then. It'd be, you know, I would do two on, one off and things like that because I'd rather just have clear I guess, when I'm in and out of them. so I can give it my all and then have a bit more of a relaxed approach. So I think that's what worked well with me with the Aggressive Diet too, is that it does show distance, but for better results and that combination for me was a winner. let's not reveal too much now, because a lot of this will come out right in the podcast. Let's move on to you now then, Sean Dallow. Sean Andrew Dallow. Complaint and compliment for you. Okay, so compliment for you, because this one I find quite inspiring is how much your attention to detail. never slips and you're disciplined throughout it's not even just in fat loss phases because it's in your carries through to your maintenance phases as well but in particular when you know you are more tired naturally sore energy is less a body tries to preserve energy as much as possible and try to slow us down but you are always very disciplined and don't let your attention to detail slip and that always reflects in the results you get. That's why you get such good results the board. But that, being around that has a ripple effect onto ⁓ in those moments where I'm like, could have little bit more of this ⁓ do need to do that now? And being you you are more on it, shall I say, and more disciplined in that element, it's impressive and it ⁓ ripples onto me, is helpful. So your compliment selfishly helps me. Classic. ⁓ But no, it's an environmental thing, isn't it? Yeah, sure. I think for us, we just spend so much time together, so much of our day together, working together on the business, walking to the gym together, walking the dog together, training together, eating together, all of that. Our lives are so intertwined that this would never work if we didn't inspire each other and improve each other as we go as well. there are so many behaviors that we've picked up. off each other that have been positive, probably some negative ones as well, let's be honest, but the positive That's why I'm on so much, it's because I've been around you, right? can't deny. Yes, I ⁓ sit deny. But no, really pleasing for me to hear that I can have that positive influence. Because at times do question it, when you're being disciplined, when you're saying no to things, when you're being a little bit more... I guess the best term is televisioned at times. You do question yourself and think, is this the right thing? Is this the wrong attitude to have? Is this presenting myself as having zero fun in my bones or just being unnecessarily picky and difficult? But hearing that it can have a positive influence is reassuring to me. So great. And now you're just about to crush me into the ground with your complaints. So yeah, let's follow up. Let's see what comes out. So how do I put it politely that either you just ignore what I say to you. or it goes in one year out the other. or you listen and then time just passes by so quickly that you just then forget to do something that I've asked you to do. To be fair, this is kind of an extension to my normal life though, isn't it? It just gets worse. It gets amplified. Yes, amplified. It's like... It's you, you just turn into an ultimate cabbage at times. not, ⁓ not like, not with your work, not with your training, nothing holds a high level of responsibility or importance. You don't turn into a cabbage with those. But if I say, babe, would you mind, it could be simple as simple as like, do my emptying dishwasher? You go, yeah. And that, yeah, did not go into his brain. It's just, I should answer now. Yeah. How many times do you say to me, can you put the dishwasher on when you're finished? And I go, yeah, no problem. And then we come back two hours later and the dishwasher is just still there. Or there's a tablet in there and the door's been shut. ⁓ it's been put on and the tablet's still on the worktop. And little things get amplified a lot when he is in deficit. Do know what? This is such a good point though. Like it really is. I'm a hundred percent in agreement with you. I really am. But it contradicts first point, but it's almost like a perfect contradiction. So many things get my attention in detail in that deficit. There's so many things that I do to a really high degree of focus that I just give no focus or have no focus left for anything else. So that is a trade off, which is really important to get the balance right with, isn't it? Because life still continues to exist. entire life and identity is not just, can I get as lean as possible? Can I build as much muscle as possible? There has to be some balance with everyday life. And it's something that I've really come to understand and learn ⁓ I've gone through more fat loss phases, more muscle building phases, et cetera. But yeah, I % hold my hands up to it. When you've got less mental energy available, mental capacity available, you don't allow yourself to have some mental energy left for everyday life, then you're gonna find yourself hitting a few walls, hitting a few barriers, let's be honest, pissing off a few people that you live with as well, because ⁓ have to ⁓ in that environment. And the better you do that, the happier home you have, the less stress you have, probably the easier it's gonna be for you to get better results with your fitness goals too. Yeah, I absolutely agree. It's really important to keep everyone that's around you in your most immediate environment onside a lovely piece which was shared by the three team 3dmj coaches Not sure who would be familiar with them listening to this podcast, but a really ⁓ bunch of coaches and athletes natural bodybuilders for those interested but ⁓ most known for their Contributions to the coaching space and education building muscle, et cetera. they spoke about how one of their goals now as very experienced coaches, very experienced bodybuilders is to not have anyone notice when they're in prep for a bodybuilding show and when they're not. So quite similar to the compliment that I gave you, Katie, ⁓ notice that they're struggling with low energy availability. They're not suffering from mood swings. They're not suffering from a drop off in day to day responsibilities and life admin, they still keep going at the same kind of frequency intensity and which I think is really impressive ⁓ and the level of maturity and balance these guys have with ⁓ that and that process. So yeah, something that I am ⁓ very of and very keen to continue to work on so that we do get some dishes washed time for our evening meals and ⁓ I don't just keep getting the same pushback for not doing the same things that I said yes to doing 20 times a day. That's the thing that gets to me, I think, is the yes, the confirmation, I will do this. And there's no response. The lights are There's just nothing. I mean, to be fair, you're not normally like that. You normally get it done most of the time. But it's just amplified in the deficit. It's literally as if. you're responding, but it's not computed mentally. Yeah. And I think the more we go through this kind of discussion and we reveal our challenges as well, the more we can look into these things and talk about these things. Cause you'll see some continuity with those patterns, but we've both spotted each other's weaknesses and challenges quite well in that piece. we've chosen our top three personal battles in a fat loss phase. We're going to tell you what those are and then what we each do to manage those. What are your top three challenges in a fat loss phase? These are quite clear to me when I thought about this question, actually. It didn't take too long to ⁓ identify them. I don't know if that's just because of experience with fat loss phases or not. But think the times you do them, the more experience you get. from doing them, the easier it is to identify the challenges you face I wouldn't say these are in any particular order, these three, but these are my top three. One would be temptations. The second will be self-regulation. And my third one will, my third one is, Meal repetition slash getting bored with the meals that I'm eating. Obviously we're going to into a little more depth in the moment so I don't want to expand on those right now. Do you agree? But let's hear about yours, Sean. So what are your top three challenges? I'll actually just change one because I'm going to combine two of my top three challenges together having had that conversation with you because I think... point you made about focus levels, when you bring it to my attention, it's like, yeah, wow, I'm actually really aware of that now, now that you mention it. So my first point is that my hunger levels are difficult to deal with. And I initially had two points for this. So I'll talk about this in two different segments. I've got my overall hunger levels, and then I've got like time specific hunger, which I struggle with. Then the second point, we'll go into focus levels. So we'll talk about those, what happens when my brain went a minute calorie deficit. And then the third thing is family and social dynamics. And that might be from a slightly different angle to what some of you may expect. I do find that particularly challenging. Interesting. ⁓ interesting. And I think ⁓ thing that screamed to me when we chatted about the top three biggest challenges was that mine are very emotional, Ed. And yours are pretty logistical. Yeah. That's a good observation. There might be certain things that will cross over in some of these. But... But ultimately, yeah, mine are very, very emotional, Ed. How I respond to foods and yours are, how am I going to function optimally during this calorie deficit? Yeah, pretty much. And I think these differences are important to note as well because can have very different experiences in a calorie deficit to somebody else. This something that we're hyper aware of as coaches because Every week when we get our clients check-ins come in and we know what they've been feeling, what they've been experiencing, what they've got in the week coming up, what are they apprehensive about, what has been a big win for them personally. All of these different things shape the unique parts of that journey that you can't always account for in any sort of group coaching or when you're talking to a group, a mass group of people, like anybody that listens to this podcast, you'll all have your own unique experiences. with being in a calorie deficit. There'll be some things you can relate to that other people also experience, but you'll also have your own responses and experiences too. So it's important to know where your strengths and weaknesses are you can really leverage and play to your strengths, but also understand you might need some different strategies or different methods or even some support to help with your weaknesses. Yeah, absolutely. We've all got them. We've all got ⁓ and we've all got weaknesses. And understanding yours is really important to be able to make your journey not just a success, because you could be successful with a journey, even if it takes a little bit longer, but to make the journey easier, more streamlined, less stressful. as we go through this podcast as well, we'll also share how we support each other with some of these weaknesses too. Just initially talking on those compliments and complaints we said, like am always amazed by how easily Katie just continues to pick up normal to day tasks as part of her routine and not let anything drop off. Like simple things like what goes on around the house and stuff. I'm always by how you just continue to go about your normal day to day without feeling like your mental energy is taxed too much with that. And that perhaps picks up for, not that should, but it picks up for a bit of my slack because you're still able to continue doing those things. But then one of your weaknesses might be your emotions might be a little bit more unpredictable and you might feel like a little bit more. confused, frustrated by certain problems which you might face in the day, certain challenges which you may encounter, whereas I might be able to help with those because I still have that ability to be rational, logistical, practical and find certain solutions to certain problems. So we can play off each other's strengths and weaknesses when we're in this state as well, which I think is quite helpful to us. Yeah, I got to agree. I got to agree. ⁓ I think there are strengths and weaknesses outside of fat loss too. But when going through a fat loss phase and everything's more amplified, it just gets highlighted how important it is to bounce off each other's strengths and weaknesses, I think. Absolutely. let's chat about the challenges one by one, right? Let's break them down. Let's give a bit of background about them all. And also then chat about the solutions or fixes that we used personally to support some of the challenges that we face during fat loss. How does that sound? sounds great. Sounds like a good plan. Your first point, Katie, was Temptations. That was your first challenge. It was. ⁓ It was. Tell us a bit more. Where do I start with this one then? Okay, so... I inevitably start to miss certain foods. usually pleasure foods that I like to have and have got quite accustomed to and find particularly easy to just slot into my usual diet outside of fat loss. This will be things like, you probably are going to be seeing it ahead of me right now, chocolate, with certain things like different, multiple different toppings when it comes to my yogurt bowls, my porridge, homemade desserts, pastries, those kinds of things, which I just. get a lot pleasure from eating. They're obviously not the smartest choice when you're in a fat loss phase. But the urge and desire for me to want those foods can sometimes feel stronger when I know they're not possible, which is quite annoying. But it's that thing, isn't it? You want what you can't have. And that sometimes gets amplified for me when I'm in a fat loss phase. Tell us a bit more about the kind of one what you can't have to bake 80 because you've mentioned this in a number of podcasts. It's not so much you can't have it, but you're making the conscious choice not to have it right now. Tell tell the listeners a little bit more about that and why that choice is made for these foods, not being part of your diet in a fat loss phase. There's a couple of reasons why I choose not to have them in a fat loss phase. I'm very aware that I could eat them and I could still lose body fat. I'm very aware of that. But for me it's not the wisest choice because they're very, very easy to over consume. They will use a large chunk of the deficit calories that I have available. It will leave me even hungrier than I already am. Which means you moan at me more. means I moan more, yes. I'm going to argue that. So for it's a case of Okay, I'm in the fat loss phase now. My main goal is to drop body fat. I know I'm going to get an immense amount of reward for being successful doing that. So right now I am going to choose not to have those pleasure foods as part of my diet. Not because again, not because it's bad, not because it's unhealthy, not because it's going to ruin my fat loss, but because it's not the wisest move for me on that particular day, that particular week, that particular short stint of fat loss. I spend the majority of my time outside of fat loss now, where all of those foods are just a regular part of my diet, obviously in moderation, but they're there for me to have and fit into my diet as I see fit. But it's my choice. And I think even though I know it's my choice to not have those, and I can talk to myself mentally and tell myself that you're choosing not to have chocolate right now because that's not the wise choice for you in this moment, it doesn't always mean that my brain still doesn't tell me I want to eat it. I still have those urges, I still have those desires to want to have it, and sometimes perhaps more because my food is... a little bit plain, a little bit blunder because I want to get more volume of food on my plate. Because that helps me feel fuller in a calorie deficit. That helps me feel like I'm eating more food. And when you can choose more whole foods when you're in a calorie deficit, it's surprising how much you can eat. But that can quickly be dwindled down if some of those calories are used for like chocolate, pastries, et cetera. But that's as high as numbers go. That's absolutely spot on, Katie, the way you've described that. And I think the point that I took away from that, that I think is really empowering for people to hear, is that you can a choice to do one thing and your brain will still send you signals for the other thing. You can make a choice to be intelligent with your calories, plan ahead, use them as wisely as possible, focus on filling, volumizing foods and still get those cravings and still get those... mini dopamine responses when you see something that you know is going to be really tasty or one of your favorite foods, you're still going to get that pull and draw to it. You don't have to give into it, but it's also natural that you're experiencing it because your thoughts and your feelings are not necessarily always the same as what your or what your behaviors will do. They can be two different things that can both exist in the same space at pretty much the same time. And that's really important to note and you get better at that with the experience. Katie, obviously you're vastly experienced at this now and you're so aware of your body and your body's response to these triggers. So you make different choices now than what you would have done many years ago. I think it's important to note that yes, I am experienced and I'm very grateful for where I'm at with things now and the level of control of confidence I have over my nutrition is something that I feel like I've earned to have right now and I'm proud of that and I'm confident in it but I still have to make a choice now and those choices aren't always easy to make they get easier they absolutely do the thoughts don't appear aggressive or the pull isn't quite as strong now as it would have been many, years ago. But ultimately those thoughts still happen and it's still me actively making a choice to opt for not the pleasure foods in this moment. So what have you done to combat? the challenge of temptation over time, Katie, what measures have you put in place? And are there any particular environments where you found temptation is more of a pull than perhaps not? And what do you do in those environments too? Okay, I'll run you through the environments that I find it particularly challenging first, and then I'll let you know some fixes that I use or some approaches that I use to help me overcome that. environments on a day-to-day basis, we work from home, right? We steps away from the fridge, the kitchen, potentially the chocolate cupboard, ⁓ the, you know, the... And throughout your working day, if a task is particularly challenging or you take a break because you need to take some time away from screens, whatever it may be, you've just naturally got a small gap in between client calls, for example. It can be easy to just wanna wander off to the kitchen, open up the fridge or the chocolate cupboard and a whole abundance of pleasure food there that now I've got a battle with. I shouldn't, I know I'm choosing not to have this right now, because it's not going to be helpful for my fat loss phase, but I really bloody want it. But do I really want it? Because, or am I just bored right now? Or am I just looking for a quick, um, hit because work's really stressful or... A pattern breaker because you've been sat at the desk for the last three hours and you just want something different, different emotion, different focus. Yeah. It's not always boredom. It's not always stressful, because, um... I don't particularly get bored in work, actually. That's probably more of an evening problem, a wind down problem where you're watching TV and you think, hmm, what's up in the kitchen coming now? But boredom isn't always because the task is not mentally engaging or mentally stimulating. It's because you've just been doing the same thing for a long Very true, very true, very true. So it's a pattern breaker. I think that's the ultimate thing, isn't it? It's a pattern breaker you're looking for. it can be easy for food to become that pattern breaker and become a habit that's for you. So that's a day-to-day environmental challenge that ⁓ I ⁓ particularly a fat loss phase, I would say. similar in the evenings, right? Again, but that might be TV, that might be doing my MNU course, whatever it may be, it's that pat and break it again. In social environments, I don't find it challenging anymore when I'm out and about. Particularly if I'm with you, it's okay because you understand where I'm at, you understand the goals I'm trying to achieve. So if anything, you hold me accountable in a positive way rather than it being a stress and thinking, ⁓ God, what's Sean having now? Will I be jealous of his food or all of this jazz? None of that comes into mind because sometimes we're on the same journey at the same time, but even when we're not, you're very... aware and supportive of what I'm trying to achieve. With family in the past, particularly parents, right? Mam, so you are feeders and I love you for it because I absolutely love my food. But when it comes to when you're dieting or in a fat loss phase, that can be really challenging at times. I probably, no, I used to find... It's hard saying no in that environment because I am a massive people pleaser. I used to be more so than I am now. And I would hate to say no because I wouldn't want to upset mothers that have made such fantastic food or desserts, whatever it may be, to make us happy because like seeing a smile on our face. And I them for that. really do. But that's a bit of a conflict sometimes when it comes to achieving your goals and being in environment that potentially puts a barrier in your way. When you have these sorts of goals in mind, and this is a very common problem for a lot of people to experience, somebody else is doing something kind for them, but then it's not always aligned with the goals. There are times where you just kind of take that on the chin and you go, yeah, I'm just going to accept that. I don't need to worry about this one meal. It's not going to make that much of a difference in the grand scheme of my journey. There's times to adopt that approach. but there may also be times where you don't want to adopt that approach. And there's times where you might be nearing the end of your fat loss phase, for example, or you're trying to get through this phase as quickly as possible. And it's really important for you not to deviate too much from your plan in mind, from your rate of results. Then it comes down to communication, doesn't it? And it comes down to your ability to share your wants and your needs with that person a kind and considerate way, but also stay aligned to what you really want. And ⁓ understanding that. in that line in the sand and say, right, from this point onwards, this is what I'm going to be doing now moving forwards. I'm going to communicate with my support networks around me and the people that are generous to me to make them aware of that. Because ultimately they just want what you want. They're giving you something kind and generous. They want you to be happy. So as long as you're communicating with them that this is going to make me happy for this purpose, then it works well. I'll come back to that when it comes to family and social dynamics, because this is one that's really challenging to me too. I think, yeah, like Katie said there, it's important to recognise that sometimes those environments can be more challenging with fat loss. Talk about controlling your own immediate environment and going back to... The temptations around me. The temptations and especially with being at home and ⁓ most of your... having your work life at home. What do you do to remove those temptations in that environment? Honestly, I just remove hyper-paddle foods from our I know it doesn't bother you, you are happy for me to do so, but I remove them because if I know it's there, then it's easier for me to be swayed in a moment of weakness. I'm not afraid to admit that in moments of weakness, because I'm human. you're only human, whenever you are trying to achieve something that is pushing you further than you've gone before, it's not always going to be plain sailing and you are going to have moments where you think, just want that now ⁓ of something that might have happened in life or a stress or an excitement or ⁓ doesn't always have to be a negative stress. could always, sometimes it can be that you want to celebrate something ⁓ gone well. And that's just not to say, not to recognize these things. It's more about recognizing on a day to day, if those temptations are around me, it's just making it harder for me to stick to what I really want to stick to. I think the less noise I can have around me, the easier it is to achieve my goals without it being overly stressful. There's a time and place for have all these pleasure foods. I bring them back in. when I can, when I'm ready to, I'll bring them back in and enjoy them again. They're not gone forever, but I think for a short period when I'm in fat loss, the more temptations I can remove and just get rid of them from the house, the easier it is. think that's a really smart move. you say that this is easier for you as an individual because of our dynamics, our relationship dynamics? Probably right, because ultimately you love but you don't really have a sweet tooth like me. So whilst perhaps may find it easier to overconsume in just ⁓ meal sizes You could say yes or no to chocolate, to sweet stuff quite easily. doesn't bother you as much. I don't get the same pleasure signalling from certain types of food ⁓ you do. I don't get the same pleasure signalling from hyper palatable foods like you would. So something that I'm fortunate enough to have biologically, I guess. And ⁓ can to that strength quite easily in a fat loss phase. So yeah, for to be able to... remove that from the environment is absolutely fine for me. It is, that's not going to be case for everyone, No, it's really not. It's not going to be. You you might have children at home where you have certain snacks for their packed lunches, for example, or things that they just enjoy and you don't want to remove those fully from the home. So that could be a challenge. Your partner may not be on a similar journey to you. So they might not want to remove sweet things if they particularly like sweet things. So there's many scenarios where that's perhaps not fully possible to remove all temptations from your home. So I'm very, very aware of that. And if temptations are something that you struggle with personally, and you don't have the luxury of going, right, I'm just going to get rid of it for a couple of weeks, then I think this is where communication with your partner, your family is important. to say that you'd like support with this, let them know the journey that you're on and how you portray that to your family is, I think that's important as well because it's not that you can't have that food, remember, because you don't want to ⁓ risk ⁓ their relationship with food. But it's just saying that ⁓ working towards a particular goal right now. and this particular food just doesn't align with what you're achieving at the moment. And you're looking forward to bringing it back again in the future. But right now you just need the support with not having it easily accessible. Your partner may be on board with you and say, don't worry, get rid of it. But again, if that's not possible, having the support and having the support around you to just... give you a helping hand in those moments, potentially of your weakness, that can go a long way. Yeah, shrinking the exposure to the foods which are most likely to be over consumed is a really smart way to do things. spend too much time on it right now. But if we continue with the podcast, there will be more tips for helping you to manage those slightly more varied, hyper-paradisable foods as well, and those cravings. And some of these can work really well. inside of family dynamics too. So let's move on for now, but we can definitely come back to that. So yeah, there's a lot there, Katie, to take away from your challenges of temptation and how you've been able to improve your handling of them over time. And yeah, I agree that this is something that I think comes easier to some people than others. Like some of us have a more natural urge to reach for pleasure foods than others. And it's really interesting hearing your perspective on that because I don't have that same experience in the way that you do. similarly to a lot of the members that I coach, I don't have the same experience as they would with Pleasure Foods. It's certainly something that I benefit from being aware of and having more understanding of. I think important recognize if that is you or not you, right? Rather than fight, Dickel, and why am I this way? This isn't right. It's recognizing that is you, is who you are, to work with it rather than against it. Sean, I'd like to flip it back to you for a moment and let's talk about one of your challenges. the first challenge that you raised ⁓ was ⁓ overall hunger satiety and time-specific hangar. Can you tell us a little bit more about that, please? I've got a really big appetite. It's been a feature of my life for as long as I can remember. Even whilst I'm eating like 3,500 to 4,000 calories a day, I still have a big appetite. Sometimes my appetite at maintenance isn't much different to what I would experience while I'm in a calorie deficit. There's not a huge difference. There might be stronger, I might get stronger hunger signal in certain times of the day when I'm in deficit, which I'll go on to talking about in a moment, but I typically have a big appetite. And for this, I have to eat lots of regular meals. I find that I digest these meals pretty quickly. when I'm in deficit, because I'm trying to keep the calories down, my meal frequency drops and I might have longer gaps between meals. Something, calories have got to be pulled back from somewhere. So I don't particularly like to decrease the portion size of my meals too much because that's what ⁓ makes full enough to last to the next meal. But when I'm eating at maintenance and... you know, slightly above maintenance, can fit in all those extra meals in between to bridge those gaps. I can't do that as easily in deficit. So it leaves me with longer gaps. I'm much less likely to under eat for pleasure compared to maybe some others and maybe you, Katie. I typically will overeat because I'm either eating so fast because I'm so hungry when I'm eating and I'm just not eating mindfully or there is more food around me. and there's more food that I have access to just in terms of food volume. for me, when people say about eating what their body wants or eating as much as their body wants, I would be 10 to 15 stone overweight. I would gain way more body fat than what I'm able to keep off now. because for me, my appetite and my ability to keep eating and keep eating and keep eating would just keep driving me to eating more. I don't get that same switch off point. So for me to my calorie tracking effectively, weigh out my portion sizes effectively, it's almost a necessity for me because have probably a slightly bigger hunger response and a bigger gap with hunger where my hunger switches off. It takes me a bit longer to reach the point where my body feels really full and really satisfied. And even if I reach that point, a couple of hours later, I'm probably hungry again. That's just the way that my body works, right? And do you find that when you're eating that you don't really get You get, I want more, I want more. ⁓ my gosh, I feel sick. Yeah, my... I don't get that switch off. So it's like the circuit isn't fully connected. My body doesn't go, I've had enough now stop eating. I can overeat to the point where I've probably consumed so much volume of food, my stomach can hurt. And then little while after that, my body's like, ⁓ God, yeah, this is painful. ⁓ you're full now. So why didn't you stop me 10, 15 minutes ago before I had those extra few mouth balls or something. That's just how my body works. I have to be aware of that. I really do. I have to be very mindful of that. This is something that tracking calories and portion sizing and things like that has helped me with because I've got used to what makes me fall. In an ideal circumstance, you get used to your hunger signaling regulation. You get used to those that your body is telling you it's getting closer to being full. But my signals don't always act the same as everyone else's. Sometimes I go beyond the point of where I would normally expect to feel full. And then it kind of like is a backlog effect where it hits me. So yeah, I do have to be careful of that. and mindful of that. And so you're making that choice in the moment, isn't it, going, OK, I actually know I've consumed a decent amount of food here nutritionally and calorie wise. So I just need to step away now before I overeat for the sake of overeating. problem with this when I go into a calorie deficit is I don't really tend to feel like I've achieved what I would class as a really satisfying level of fullness. I get there, but it doesn't last for very long. So I'm almost always experiencing some form of hunger when I'm in a calorie deficit. feel like you get that break from feeling hungry when you're in deficit because you're not getting that simple-ness. No, sometimes, you know, I'll finish a meal and I'm still hungry. even the meals that do leave me feeling fuller, I will sometimes feel like I'm quite hungry again quite quickly after those meals. So yeah, that's one of my personal struggles. If I don't manage it correctly, I'm just constantly thinking about how hungry I am. And that can be quite a negative place to be in when you're trying to focus on keeping your calories down. Yeah, absolutely. It's stressful thinking of that, isn't it? It's stressful and it also just keeps drawing, so it keeps bringing your attention back to the fact that you're hungry and hunger can play the biggest threat to a successful fat loss phase or not, right? It's even things like my training if... I say eat my pre-gym meal or my snack before I go to the gym. then I get with something. I start answering a few more messages or I get back to something. or I get pulled off to a different task and then I don't go to the gym another hour or so. Because my food then starts to digest and break down and I'm getting closer to that next meal, I'll go to the gym and I'll start training, I'll be hungry. And I'm more focused on the fact that I'm feeling hungry in the gym than actually just doing my session and performing well. And I find that really distracting. And then also I can feel the drop in energy because... that food has mostly made its way through my system and I'm using up that energy and I need to replace it with more energy. it's even things like that, like in a fat loss phase, like these are the logistical challenges that I have to get right. Because though hunger is a feeling, for me it's a logistical problem, it's what I eat in my meals, it's where I time my meals. And if I can manage that well and stick to those routines, then I have a much easier time getting through that fat loss phase. And that doesn't... That doesn't change whether I'm in a small calorie deficit or a large calorie deficit. I still have to deal with that problem, regardless of how big a calorie deficit I'm in. So what have you done to fix that then? think the main thing for me is just accepting hunger as part of the process and just getting used to the experience of being hungry, getting used to that experience of having to overfill myself with meals and just be comfortable with that. So you mentioned that, I think that's an important point to raise, ⁓ being hungry in a deficit is normal. ⁓ quicker you can accept that, the easier the process will be. You touched upon, doesn't matter how big of a deficit it is, you still get this response. But tell me about your experience with AD. Was that easier or harder when you went into a more of an aggressive diet when it comes to your hunger response? considerably easier, like surprisingly so. I've always had to battle with hunger I've been in deficit like everyone does, but my hunger signals were quite pronounced and I just thought there's no way I'm to be able to cut down my food even more and feel less hungry. And that's exactly what happened when I was doing a more aggressive fat loss approach, that hunger suppression that we see in the research and that we've heard of people experiencing. I had that same experience too. And for the first time in my life, during a fat loss phase, there were times where I actually just forgot that I was in a fat loss phase. Like from a hunger perspective, I forgot that I was in a fat loss phase. And that was quite profound as an impact to me. So yeah, it's- have that mental stress taken away of, I'm hungry, I'm hungry, I'm hungry. Yeah, absolutely. And I think during that period as well. because of the way that the meals were structured, I was able to play to my strengths. So when it comes to the practical ways that I manage my hunger in a calorie deficit, I don't have that intense pleasure signaling from certain hyper-paratable foods, I can really focus on just maximizing my calories as much as possible for being as full as possible. So really filling food groups. calorie wastage on things that just don't leave me feeling full. ⁓ can have lots of high volume foods in my diet and makes the process have a lot easier. There are certain times of the day which for me, I do struggle more with hunger. that lunchtime mid afternoon to evening meal. Normally if I'm at maintenance, I'm hungry in that time, I just eat something and bridge that gap. That's normally the first meal. which gets dropped off for me when I'm in a calorie deficit. ⁓ stretch between lunchtime and the evening meal I find ⁓ challenging, it's quite long. How I tend to deal with that then is I try and busy myself in that period. So that's where we don't really go for a dog walk in that time, which helps. It might be that ⁓ leave a certain work task to do in the afternoon. So I know that has to be done on that day. And I know that I got a knuckle down and do it and that sounds quite counterintuitive But because I'm quite a disciplined person and I know that it needs to be done I will just throw myself into it that time and busy myself and get that done The other thing that works for me is when I get really hungry later on the evening, which is another time of the day that I notice pronounced hunger. Mornings I'm normally okay. And then around my evening meal, once I've had my evening meal, I'm okay. But as the night goes on, before I go to bed, I can get hungry. that's where I have things like sugar-free fizzy drinks. So Pepsi, Max, cherry, my go-to every single time in a calorie deficit. I drink decaf coffee. ⁓ I drink peppermint tea in the evening. So I'm just having things that just give me an artificial feeling of something going in. fluids, they can help me to kind of distract myself a little bit away from ⁓ So that well for me. bridges the gap a little, doesn't it? It bridges the gap. Yeah. Yeah. And The last thing that I think I've changed more so over the years is I'm much slower when I'm eating now. So I'm focusing on trying to eat with less distraction. When you're in a calorie, this is something that I'm going to work on massively in the next few months when we start this next aggressive diet, not having my phone at the table, not reading any news articles or anything, or not listening to a podcast or whatever, just trying to be present, just me and the food. and eating slowly, chewing your food multiple times. That helps a lot when it comes to your hunger and fullness signaling. So going to be one of my big work-ons. But is something that I have improved. I eat a little bit slower now. You often finish your food before me, even if I start earlier. ⁓ And to me is a sign that I'm ⁓ taking time and chewing my food. It ⁓ could be a sign that my portion size is twice as much as yours. Yeah, I've got to say. But still. It's something that I do try ⁓ be more mindful of now. It definitely helps. I'm a burger and have been a burger probably my whole life for guzzling food too quickly, which doesn't digestion, but also doesn't help with feeling full. Yes, the of the food plays a big part in how full you feel, but so does chewing your food. doing that over a of a longer period because it gives your brain a chance really to have the signal it needs to tell you that you have been eating, you have been eating a lot now and you are full. So yeah, that's something I need to work on and any of my family members that are listening to this now will be laughing their head off because it's a constant ongoing joke about how quickly I eat my food. Self-regulation, Katie. Back to me, here we go. You mentioned this as one of your challenges. basically that's changes in your environment ⁓ in your emotional experience. Tell me how that is a challenge for you ⁓ it comes to fat loss. So for me, when I refer to self-regulation, it's emotional responses. Not much to food, but... ⁓ But life, guess, life. And also things like when I do turn into what I call cabbage mode in the evenings, I haven't got as much to give. It's not feeling guilty about that when I could be doing some more work and things like that. So there's a couple of things in the mix when it comes to self-regulation and things that are just more pronounced when I'm on less calories. Because when I praised you earlier, if you notice I said certain times a day I don't notice you in a calorie deficit. I only have to take one look at you in the evenings and I can tell you're in a gallery deficit. Corpse. It's like a night and day difference. It's like a different person has just entered the house. Maybe if I didn't go so hell for that in the day, I wouldn't be such a corpse in the evening. Well, what does that have do with that? I don't know. I'm not... Somebody's got to empty the dishwasher. playing to my strengths, right? I'm just not as productive in the evening and that's definitely pronounced in a calorie deficit. But I think for me, mood is a big thing when it comes to being in a calorie deficit. I have a serious problem with hunger. And I know you're going to laugh right now because I am definitely more short tempered. I'm definitely a little less patient when I'm in a calorie deficit. What'd you say? Tell me more. And you probably the one that's on the receiving end of that than anyone else, right? Because I'm not going to be short tempered with my clients Griff or... or family for that matter, or even less patient with these. Maybe your parents have noticed from time to time too. Especially when Darren. in time with Darren. was fun. So Sean's parents came over for food one summer. I think we were at the garden, weren't we, one summer? And we had food laid out on the table and we'd have to pass food over to each other. And I was absolutely starving and was like, you know, Hango is very, very prominent at this stage. And Sean's dad, Darren. He likes to take his time. Oh, he likes to his time. Da, I love you, but my god this day and... If there's like a dish of something, let's say there's a dish of loads of chicken legs or something, like he likes to pick out the one that he wants. So he'll take his time and have a little lurk and he might... You might just use the tongs and turn one of them over or move one aside. It takes his time, doesn't It takes his time, I think, from memory. I was holding this big bowl of chicken or whatever it was for him. And I was just standing there thinking, is he going to react? And I think in the end, I was so hungry, was like, you bloody pick a piece of chicken? Will you pick a piece of chicken? And Sean's mom just wet herself and that was just as It wasn't quite as polite as that, it? No, It was like a panic, like the hunger just built up. The shakes were coming. Yeah. Why don't you just pick one? person really I promise. I think this is something that really really like obvious about you when you're in a calorie deficit because you're just not this person you're not short-tempered you most the time are very patient with things you don't those like quick emotional snaps like like I do so you don't not a grumpy person you're not a moody person you're just not like that at all When you're in a calorie deficit, you see that come out. It's almost like it's twice as much of a shock when it does. It's quite funny. yeah, those closest to me have definitely, no, definitely know when hangover is present. My will go up, feed her, don't speak to her until you feed her. ⁓ And a, yeah, that's very real, very real. I think is more challenging for me in ⁓ the deficit sugar. that self-regulation. ⁓ doesn't come as natural to me, shall we say. I'm a male. So I can't relate to this. But does anything change with you around time of the month when you're in a calorie deficit as well? Yes. Yeah, for sure. Particularly around time I'm going to come on my period. That could be a couple days before, sometimes it could be a day before. Sometimes it could be a couple of days when it started. But those Feelings gonna be even more pronounced. Cravings can be a little bit stronger. Moods can be, oh, it's like I'm a different person. It's like I see red. Sean better watch out. So I think it's recognising, because everyone, female I speak to or every female listening to this now will have different experience when it comes to your menstrual cycle. For ⁓ the couple of years has been more pronounced since coming off the contraceptive pill. It's like I can feel more. It's much more I would say, which can make challenging when you're in a fat loss phase. And for some individuals, you may even choose not to be in a deficit on those days because the challenge is just a little bit too much. not worth it because it can lead to spiraling, it can lead to feeling really crappy about yourself. And just taking a little bit of a step back on those days from being in a carry deficit can ⁓ make next part of your fat loss phase more successful. So is that one of the fixes which you use, Katie? the time that meant to can predict well and you will start notice that as a pattern. So what ⁓ do you do about particular pattern when you're in a calorie deficit? So for me, I'm a bit of a martyr. So I don't tend to take myself out of a deficit when I'm in a fat loss phase. or wrongly, everyone is different. So don't think what I do might is the right thing for you per se. It could be. You could time your maintenance breaks, for example, around that week where you know you're going to have the hardest time dealing with it. So that's one strategy you apply. You can take a maintenance break ⁓ a week, can get a couple of days. ⁓ absolutely can be a strategy and that has worked for many clients in the past. I've followed that strategy before and it's worked well. sometimes if I'm in more of an aggressive dieting for example, I might not want to take a break over that period or if I just want to get in and out of fat loss as much as possible. I think those times it's actually even smarter to be wise with your calories and using them as effectively as possible. Because you're... ⁓ cravings, your end can be stronger, your energy levels may dip even more. So you don't want to put a double whammy on yourself by already being on low calories and then also using those calories in effectively. If I am really struggling though, because sometimes energy levels do plummet and feel like I just need some carbohydrates in my body to function well, if I am really struggling, I will accept slightly higher calories for that week. That may not necessarily mean I'll go all the way up to maintenance. That may just mean on that particular day, two days, I may have two, three, four, 500 calories more, just on those particular days. In the grand scheme of things, I'm still going to be in a large deficit for the week. So do I suffer those couple of days or do I just have some higher calories, take it on the chin, feel better about things and then I'm ready to go again in a couple of days time. That's usually the approach ⁓ will take. I think it's short term delay for a long term reward is what you need to think of if you're in that situation. And I think it's knowing the difference between using your time of month as an excuse for poor choices and generally needing to adapt for your body. I think that's important because it can be really easy to lean into an excuse in the fat loss phase, in any phase, because of a particular feeling. Whereas if you ask yourself honestly, am I doing this as an excuse? or does my body generally is struggling right now and I need to give it a little bit more of what it needs. Yeah, because you can zoom out as well, can't you? And you can look at... rather than just focusing on feelings, look at like outputs in other areas. So am I really struggling with performance in the gym this week? Like am I recovering so badly from my sessions? Am I constantly tired? Am I lifting numbers down? Am I aching much more after these sessions? Is my immune system feeling like I'm struggling with fighting a bit of a cold or something? Like what's your productivity like in work? What's your family dynamics like? How are your emotions? being handled when you're exposed to stressful situations or stressful circumstances. So don't just look at this as in like just one emotional feeling, ⁓ at it across the board with all the other things you're experiencing in your life. And that will give you a bit more insight into whether this is maybe a one-off excuse or whether you're genuinely struggling with a lot of fatigue, a lot of tiredness, ⁓ you're battling against something which you might need a little bit of reprieve from right now. Yeah, I agree. think it can be really easy to want to lean into just your feelings during that time because they are heightened. to the women who are listening to this, mentally not always the person around time of month and it's harder to rationalize things. I'm staying very quiet. I think know my cycle better than me. I've been sat and nodding to I'm going to go to that dishwasher straight away. Yeah, but I forget. No, I'll just aside. think it's right. Again, it goes back to recognizing what works for you and not feeling guilty about if you have to take give yourself a bit of a repeat reprieval. And again, this could be a whole another podcast, right. But I think the confidence to give give yourself when it comes to managing self-regulation and give me yourself that okay, need a little bit more reprieval here. When it comes to a fat loss phase, your calories for the week is what's the most important thing when it comes to fat loss. So if one day needs to be a little bit higher, because you know, you're, literally are on your ass and you are crawling through the day, then have a little bit more calories. We, as women tend to burn 100, 200, sometimes more when we're on our period. Again, it's not excuse to go eat a million thousand more calories, but just being aware that your body is requiring more of you in doing that time. But back to my original point is the most important thing is for fat loss is being in a deficit for the overall week. So if there are a couple of days where you're a little bit higher than you originally planned, don't be kicking yourself because you've eaten a little bit more. Zoom out to our overall week and go, ah, actually, do you know what? I'm still in a really large deficit. And particularly so if you're even doing a more aggressive approach, you're going to be in a massive calorie deficit. So if you have a couple of hundred calories one or two days more, strategically to help you feel better, that's a big bloody win than telling yourself you're a failure because you haven't stuck to the exact amount. But... It might be the difference between you continuing your calorie deficit afterwards or you just burning out and then falling off the wagon and starting again on Monday, hitting the effort button and giving up altogether. So sometimes having that slight pullback, giving yourself a few more calories, giving yourself a few days. that is a good return of investment for the long term outcome in some cases. goes back to choices again and knowing and understanding what's needed to drive your outcome and knowing what tools you've got available to make that work for you and having conviction in your choices that work well for you, Just one more thing before we move on, Katie. you're in those moments where your emotions are getting on top of you, particularly in a calorie deficit. Yeah. If there's one piece of advice you can give to people for how to better manage things in that frame of mind, what would you ⁓ to them? Put some space between the trigger and how you respond. Try your best not to respond when you're in that heightened emotional state. Because we're not rational when our emotions are that heightened. give yourself some space. An I like to use sometimes with clients is if you were arguing with someone, maybe a partner and you really weren't getting to the bottom of this argument and you were just tit for tat, kept going. The kind of thing you could probably do for each other is just take a breather, take a step away from each other for however long that may be, to let your emotions calm down so you can come back in a more rational state to find a solution and have a better outcome. That's no different to you having a let's say it, an argument with yourself in that moment to an emotional response. You're not rational. You're literally battling with yourself in that moment. So be kinder to yourself. Remove yourself from that environment, that trigger. Allow your emotions to calm down and then decide what you want to do in a rational state. Because when you're in a rational state, Like for example, it might be the case, right, I am struggling so I'm going to decide to have some more calories today and then the rest of week will be fine. But if you decide to do that when you're emotional, I can probably promise you that's going to turn into quickly stuffing your face with three or four different chocolate bars and and sweets and whatever else is there. how you respond when you're emotional to when you're rational are completely different. You can't expect yourself to respond like you would when you're rational when you are emotional. You're asking too much of yourself. extremely well put. Thank you. Very, good. proud of that one myself. And ⁓ I to have these remind myself of this when I'm in that moment too, right? I'm not immune to that at all either. So your second challenge that you noted was your focus levels. So how are they impacted when you're in a carry deficit? Badly. No, give yourself some credit. They're not terrible. I've got a very busy brain. Yes. ⁓ I've got a very busy brain. My brain's always on the go and that's fatiguing in itself. Maybe that's where all the extra calories and all the extra hunger comes from, But when... I'm used to this. I'm used to my brain ⁓ this every of my So... Yeah, it is very busy. I've got ways that I overcome that and I've got ways that I can find balance and calmness in moments when my brain is doing too much work. The strategies I've adapted over time, that can be an entire podcast of itself, but when I'm in a calorie deficit, I do find that my brain is challenged from two different perspectives. Number one, I'm frustrated. because my brain does not have its normal capacity that I'm used to it having, and that presents a challenge in itself. And then secondly, I guess my emotional response to my brain not performing as well as I'd like causes me to be a bit more irritated, a bit more frustrated. moods tend to be most affected by my and my capacity rather than it being around other people ⁓ and... For me, I really benefit from having structure, routine systems in my life. And it's very easy for those. To get changed in day to day life is very normal for to happen and things to occur that take you outside of your normal environment and outside of your normal routine. I think I tolerate those much better when ⁓ outside of ⁓ calorie deficit compared to being in a calorie deficit. And part of the reason for that is because I know that the little mental energy I have needs to be used to just keep myself going, keep myself functioning, do my... my work duties, my responsibilities. don't want to have to use all that extra mental energy to think about, ⁓ right, so now I've got to be somewhere else at this different time and eat something different. How am going to manage that? How am going to work my calories around that? What do I do with the following days if I end up overeating this day and this, that and the other? So all those extra decisions, I find fatigue me quite a lot. the for is that then Probably my focus dips somewhere else because I'm thinking of too much and I've not got the food, let's say, to use my brain as much as I need to use it. I noticed that, but that's one of the ones I pointed out as your... Do we say criticism? absolutely. In I wasn't going to mention this first, but when you mentioned it, I think this is one of those ones where this is why communication is so important, right? Because ⁓ I would overlook it. I noticed it myself, but I wouldn't say it's one of my biggest challenges. But then when somebody else... outside of well when anybody else points that out to you and says yeah this is a critique it's like you can look inwardly then and say yeah actually it is a big problem maybe I didn't want to admit it was a big problem maybe ⁓ I just didn't have awareness of it yeah you brought it to my attention I'm like god yeah that does actually have an impact on me ⁓ think I described this before didn't I I think I described this when I was doing my last calorie deficit to you I feel like my brain is running at maximum capacity when it's only got 80 % of its capability. just feels like no matter what I do, like I can, I can fuel myself as well as possible, hydrate as well as possible, have the best night's sleep, have some caffeine in my system. I still feel my brain's only got 80 % of what it should have. And the process in speed is like a computer that's got too many tasks or taskbars open at the same time. And I just feel like I'm a bit... bit more sluggish to work things out, a bit more sluggish complete normal processes ⁓ that frustrates me because my brain is so used to being so busy. Yeah your brain is, it works at a very fast pace. ⁓ that I think frustrates you in a calorie deficit because it can't at that fast rate. It kind just has to slow down a little to adapt to the fuel that you're putting into it. It's like preserving a bit of its energy, right? And naturally so you've got less calories available. I think the further you go into a deficit, the more pronounced that gets. I think it's also important to note for yourself. you are pretty lean in terms of the body fat levels that you carry when an individual is leaner in a fat loss phase. these challenges sometimes can be more pronounced because you don't have many body fat stores for your body to pull on, to get energy from. Whereas when you, perhaps more of an individual is carrying a lot of body fat, you might not see these struggles or challenges initially because your body naturally has more body fat stores to use for energy. So think for yourself with the body fat levels that you're currently at and then take yourself to when you're in a fat loss phase. your body is really trying to preserve what it can to keep functioning, which will make it more challenging for your brain capacity then. This whole argument in itself, isn't it? It's like, is it even worth going to that low level of body fat when it could leave you feeling so, so rubbish, so washed out, so... unproductive, I guess, compared to how you would normally feel. Like, is it really worth that trade-off? And I guess only you as an individual can decide whether it is. my perspective, I like it's worth it, but only for a segment in time. I wouldn't to force myself to get there ⁓ really often. for short segments. Yeah. you know, ⁓ it is, talking a week or two or max ⁓ really that I would say most of the week, the first couple of weeks when you're in your fat loss phase, it's not as noticeable. It's as the third week approaches, generally that's it's more pronounced, I would say, from ⁓ observations. So what do you do to fix that then, Sean? what are some of the things that you perhaps put in place to help you with that during ⁓ fat loss phase? From a practical standpoint, having routine and structure really helps. respond best to routine and structure. if can build my day out to follow a certain pattern, then things kind of slot into place for the times where I got higher focus or lower focus. I know that I'm going to be most productive earlier on in the day. So for me, it's getting up early in the morning, getting ahead of my work early in the day, starting my day with probably the highest mental capacity or higher, the biggest mentally taxing tasks first, getting those done sooner rather than later and getting them out of the way is a really good move. My training is done earlier in the day. It's done mid morning. when I know I've typically got better energy levels, where I know that I've got decent fueling around that time, because I will choose to have my breakfast and a mid-morning snack when I'm in a deficit and then train. And then I've got a lunchtime meal, so I'm sandwiching my training in between those meals. So I've got high energy going into those times. I get more work done in those times. And then I know later on in the day when I'm typically a little bit more tired and a bit more fatigued anyway. I tend not to leave too much work spill over into those times. it's of kind of like trying to fight against it. And it's more a case of, okay, so I've just got to work with this. I've got to find a way to work with this problem because it's going to be there. There's no to avoid it. I've got this lower energy availability than what I normally have. So how can I make this work around my lifestyle? That makes total sense and the career you work in, you absolutely can do that and your working day around to factor that in. What advice would you give to someone who perhaps couldn't do that? I think we all have a certain degree of agency. on when we choose to do things and what we choose to do with that time available. There might be certain tasks that we can't choose to do at certain times, so we just have to try and make those fit in the best way that we can. I would aim to control the controllables as much as you can in those circumstances, Understand that for you to get a better outcome in terms of productivity, you might need to do something at a certain time that perhaps is a little bit more outside of your normal day-to-day routine. Things like early gym sessions, for example. You might switch to doing gym sessions a bit earlier on in the day, rather than doing them at the end of a day when you know you've had a really long day at work and you know you're gonna be really tired and you know you gotta go home. cook tea and sort the kitchen out and get the kids to bed and stuff like that. You're probably not going to be as inclined to want to go and do that session at that time. You're not going to want to go and do that walk at that time if you still got steps to get in. So go before work, go on your lunch break, find a way to put that task in where there's less resistance because if you leave it until too late, then your resistance is going to hold you back. Your focus on that task is going to be poorer even if you do manage to get there as well. it's not just about ⁓ you do the task, it's how you do it when you're in that state too. that would be my advice is try control what you can control except that it might not be optimal. And you may need to change a few things in your routine ⁓ when get into that place, but there will be some things you can take. ownership and authority of. Yeah, I think that's spot on to be fair. I think it's also important to note that when you're in a carry deficit, it's not even just in a carry deficit actually, but you have control over your time eating window, right? So for yourself, Sean, you prefer to have breakfast earlier in the day. and that works for you with your workload, that works for you with training, etc. But if you're an individual that, for example, can't get to the gym early in the morning, you get quite as hungry first thing in the morning, when you're in a fat loss phase, you could choose to have your time eating window start a little bit later. So you are fooling yourself later into the day, which may help you get to the gym that bit later. goes back to controlling the controllables, right? That your time at the window may look a little bit different when you're in a fat loss phase to normality. One other point I'd like to make as well is, so we're at focus levels and just small tasks dropping off and forgetting to do things. Don't rely on your brain to do all the work all the time. Like give yourself some help, like make your environment as easy as possible so that you don't forget to do certain things like. Use your phone, set reminders on your phone, get multiple alarms going off at different times of day to remind you to go and do certain things. And it can be something as simple as making sure that you the dishwasher ⁓ remind yourself to go for your walk or whatever. Like ⁓ ⁓ technology to your advantage. Like write your meals on your fridge. Get a magnetic whiteboard, write your meals on your fridge so you know what you're having. So it removes that decision fatigue. Plan your menu out for the week. There's always little things that just take away from having to think and can allow you just to fall into an autonomous system, an autonomous routine, remove as much decision fatigue as possible. I'll eat pretty much the same meals day to day for a number of days back to back when I'm in a deficit because for me that removes decision fatigue. I can maintain my focus for the tasks that I really need to concentrate on like my client work, like my training. I don't want to have to think too much outside of those things and potentially impact the performance and the productivity within those things. So anytime you can systemize stuff and make more of a regular pattern of something, helps you out a lot when it comes to mental capacity and focus. That's a very good point. A little bit of more effort in the here and now can pay off a lot in the week ahead, can't it? The saying is that you don't rise to the level of your willpower, but you fall ⁓ to the level of your systems. That makes sense. That makes sense. Because relying on willpower is risky territory. But you've got a system that works, you know, you just rock up and do. You just rock up and do without having to think as much. Yeah, I like that. I like that. This leads us very nicely onto your third challenge, Katie, which meal repetition and boredom. So I spoke about how I can eat pretty much the same meals on repeat not really give a damn. How your experience work with that? So, my extremes with this, I do like some consistency with meals in a fat loss phase because like you, I don't want to be thinking too much every day. However, I do struggle not having something to look forward to. And by that, something that's a little bit sweeter, you mean? Probably chocolate. Chocolate. So we got there in the end. the meals themselves, generally, I do keep on repeat to some extent in the fat loss phase, because that just makes it easier. It's not a very long time. I don't want to be thinking about it every day. I just want to be able to copy paste my tracker, pull the same thing on the plate and off I go. However, I do get very bored of that ⁓ ⁓ like sweetness. Now, I know plain options are for me in particularly in a fat loss phase because the less flavors we actually have, the easier it is for us as humans not to over consume. The less tasty it is, the easier it is for us not to over consume something. But I do get bored. So I do understand that is a weakness of mine and it can lead me not wanting to eat the same things on So what do you do to fix it? I find ways to incorporate in anything sweet to where possible, right? And this could be a number of ways to do this. got a bit clever with this ⁓ my time's gone on. Because there is a lot you can do with nutrition to still hit your nutritional targets and get in something a little bit tastier that satisfies you when you are trying to lose body fat. I don't really drink a lot of fizzy drinks pop on a day to day. Just not something I really like. It's not something I particularly enjoy a lot of. when I'm in the fat loss phase, I find them particularly helpful. So that's zero calorie or sugar free fizzy drinks. I ⁓ get little selection going on. Go to PNM and I'll get like Fanta lemon orange Fanta zero. Pepsi Sherry, sorry, that's the one, it? That's a nice one. Apple Zero, that's a good one as well. So I use those as a bit of a gap filler sometimes between longer meals, like in the afternoon. Sometimes I find that quite particularly helpful to bridge that gap and also tick the box of having a different flavor, something sweeter than my day. There's also then things like calorie-free syrups. which are helpful to have on yogurt bowls, on porridge, mainly yogurt bowls when I'm in a deficit, to be honest, I don't find porridge always that filling when I'm in a deficit. So that tends to be more on things like Greek yogurt. And also whey protein drips. It's only last year or the year before found out about the protein drip, which I'm amazed we've just taken so long to find out about this, but it's been an absolute game changer ⁓ ⁓ I can have a chocolate protein drip. And for you, listening, that might be a strawberry, that might be sort of caramel, might be a little bit your flavor of choice. But for me, having, you know, anywhere from 20 to 30 grams of protein, chocolate flavor, with about mil of water mixed in, that makes a very nice drip that you can just pour over. For me, it'll be yogurt bowls that I'll have in a depth set. But that just be a bowl of fruit, for example. It could be anything really that you... would like to have a little bit of sweetness with. And that really, I look forward to that when I'm in a deficit and I'm like, oh, I'll have that. Sometimes it may even be a square of dark chocolate, for example, that I'll incorporate into a snack or later in the evening. It'll be something that I know I will look forward to and I'll enjoy, I'll eat that mindfully. And then I'm like, okay, let's take that box. I'm okay then with having all of my other meals that are really just serving the purpose of. fulfilling the nutritional needs I really, my body really needs doing for our last phase. What about if you get bored with those individual meals then? So you've got some really nice stuff that you can add to meals or have outside of meals, but what about within the meals themselves? Simple things I swap here. And again, I don't like doing it too much because of what we discussed in terms of how we respond to different flavours. seasoning, simple, It doesn't really the calorie content of the food at all. But changing the seasonings, whether that's adding a bit of chilli, garlic, onion powder, paprika, things like that to the protein sauce usually. Or sometimes it's the veg where you can have bit of soy sauce with some chilli and garlic, for example. So I find that's an easy way to mix up. Even just how you cook them, isn't it? Like sometimes you might steam some broccoli one day and you might put it in the oven and oven bake it with some herbs and... bit of spray oil or something the next day, just changing the way that the food is cooked can the experience of eating the food sometimes. Yeah, it has a bit of variety then, isn't it? find makes that a bit easier for me. But it doesn't really change the calorie content or the nutritional value of the meal. So then it doesn't create a lot of decision fatigue when it comes to being in a phallus phase. I also sometimes get creative with desserts. Point above. And the other option is you can switch a part of the meal, right? Cause that's not going to cause lots of decision fatigue, particularly when you've got a good structure in place anyway with your meals. You just want to think about swapping one thing out. For example, the protein sauce. might be chicken one day, might be cod the next day. You might swap out potato ⁓ rice ⁓ maybe pasta. It be how you cook. that potato could just be swapped out, it could be mashed one day, it could be roasted the other day, it could be boiled the next day. Those simple swaps are going to just make things a little bit more interesting for you, so you don't feel like you're eating the same things on repeat. but it's an awful lot to think about. This is something that I have benefited from greatly because I am capable of eating the same meals on repeat in a deficit, but because I know that you prefer to have a little bit more variety, it's encouraged me to have a bit more variety. And I've really enjoyed that. I've really enjoyed mixing meals up a bit more. And I don't mean like the whole meal, but like even just that one thing, that one change. Like when we were doing stir fries and we would have like chicken one week, it would be maybe some beef ⁓ week, it'd be ⁓ prawns the next week. Like just having that change in that one ingredient, everything else the same, but that one thing, it can be enough to make it feel like a different meal. So you're not getting bored of having the same thing over and over and over again. So yeah, I found that to be a big win as well. And that was a compromise that worked great with me. There's one more thing that I know that you do in the deficit, Katie, this is something that I'm absolutely rubbish at doing, probably because I don't have the brain power to do it. But ⁓ you just get on with stuff, you do this really well. You're to be a bit more creative with certain foods and find to kind of cheat the system and eat things that you wouldn't typically in a calorie deficit without. leaving yourself feeling really hungry or losing out on certain macronutrients. Are you talking about my healthy desserts there, Shondalo? Yeah, I like eating them. Of course you do, I know that, bloody hell. I just don't have the brain power to cook them or make them. Yeah, I... I like getting creative because I find that it helps me with having that bit of variety and something to look forward to in a calorie deficit. So some of the things that I like to do is things like cottage cheese is so helpful when it comes to being in a calorie deficit because it's really calorie friendly, very high in protein, but you can do a lot with it. You can make cheesecakes, you can make a chocolate mousse, you can... It doesn't even have to be sweet. You can have some savory things too, but for me, I particularly like the sweet things. So I'll find stuff that I can do that will make me feel full, but also satisfy my sweet tooth. done chocolate, brownies at a lower calorie. ⁓ I wouldn't always recommend having these all the time in a calorie deficit because it be harder to hit your calories. I'm also quite aware that my deficit calories, even in an aggressive deficit, ⁓ are quite higher than a lot of people listening to this podcast and some the clients that we work with too. That being said, if you can find an alternative that is pretty high in protein, pretty high in fiber, going to be digested very slowly by your body, then ⁓ can be a win-win for being in a calorie deficit because it helps with your sweet tooth, it gives you something to look forward to, and then it also ticks society box too. And this is the thing, you can have time out of calorie deficit to eat foods which you've missed. So use a cheesecake example. Outside your calorie deficit, you might just go for a regular cheesecake. Absolutely. You might not want to go for the healthier alternative and go through the fath of creating it. You might just want to go to your local restaurant or local pub and have a bit of dessert. Or you might want to go buy a shop or one of your favorite shop or one to just have the real deal or even make the real deal yourself. But that's your choice for you to make in that moment. And for some individuals that don't want to necessarily go too far out of their calorie deficit, they don't want to start encouraging themselves to eat these foods as part of that process and create that sort of mental distraction. They want to try and stick to their targets. They want to stick to their calories. They want to have a healthier alternative that's going to leave them more full. Finding these in between us work really well. I actually prefer some of them, strangely enough, because I don't have as much of a sweet tooth. So I find like a shop bought cheesecake for me in a lot of cases is just way sweeter than what I would particularly like. And there have been many times where we've made the kind of the healthier alternative. I actually prefer the healthier alternative. So give these things a try because sometimes you might surprise yourself with how decent they are. I think that's a very important point to make. separating why you're having that healthier version right now because you don't have to have a really healthy nutritious dessert all of the time for the rest of your life. you opt for that because you prefer it absolutely fine but you don't have to have that because the other alternative is bad for you. It's more of a case that it's just serving a purpose when you're in a fat loss phase to have a bit more ⁓ bit more enjoyment, bit more sweeter things without it having a consequence to your goals. When you're out of your fat loss phase, yeah, go enjoy that chocolate fudge cake in my instance. And I would want the real deal. But that in a fat loss phase, that's risky territory that I just don't even want to explore. So what can I do instead? And that's where the healthy alternative desserts come into play for me. Talk about this it's Sean Dallow. That leads us nicely onto your last point. tell me more about ⁓ the family social dynamic challenge that you face with fat in fat loss phases. It's fair to say that I'm known in our family for having a big appetite. people do like to feed me. And lovely and I really ⁓ enjoy because it's a way that they're sharing their love for me and giving me food. But I have made a reputation for myself now of my ability to eat a lot of food. And ⁓ times can get me into a couple of sticky situations. I've not got a massive sweet tooth, but I don't necessarily say no to dessert if it's on offer either. on occasion, I ⁓ look forward to it and I enjoy it. ⁓ it's quite ⁓ for, I guess, our parents to know that, OK, Sean's probably going to have room for dessert. So if everyone else fancies a bit of dessert, then he'll probably have some too. And for seconds ⁓ or for leftovers? And I'm not great at saying no. I'm really not. I'm not great at saying... I am good at saying no when I'm really, really, really focused on something very specific in terms of results like my fat loss phase. I can use discipline for those moments. not an issue for me. But the challenge comes in because normally ⁓ I go to our parents for food, I've got thousands of calories available to me every day. It's very easy for me to... hold back a little bit of calories either on that day or for a few days in advance so that I'm able to go to a family meal and be well fed. it's when I'm in deficit that becomes the problem because notice the drop off considerably when I go from my maintenance calories to my deficit calories, ⁓ so much in terms of hunger in itself, but just more because I have to create that deficit from somewhere and there's just not many calories for me to borrow for me to be as full as I can whilst I'm eating my calorie deficit calories. I can bank some calories for family meals when I'm at maintenance, not a problem. But if I bank calories in a calorie deficit, I really suffer. I suffer with my energy levels, I suffer with my focus levels, I suffer with my hunger levels, because I'm already quite close to my limits with those anyway. And it's a big change. It's a big change for me, but it's an even bigger change for, I guess, our families because they don't necessarily know what I've got going on. They don't know what I'm experiencing. They might not know if I'm in a calorie deficit or not if I haven't told them. And they see how happy you've got in the path and your eyes light up when you've got this amazing mean in front of you and perhaps go back for seconds. Exactly. Exactly. So it's kind of like mixed messaging for me when I'm in. those moments and I do find that challenging at times. Yeah, because it's like, well, he loved our last time he'd done this and now he doesn't like it and that can be hard to communicate sometimes, isn't it, with people? It's the same with social life when I'm in a car redeficit. If they involve lots of extra calories, I really suffer big time. So if I can do it without a calorie penalty, if I can go to a social event without a calorie penalty, then that's okay. But there are times where I just, I know I'm going to suffer. I know the trade off is not worth being able to go out and have that meal You know, like drinking, for example, like drinking alcohol. I don't touch alcohol in a calorie deficit. It's just not worth it. Like those liquid calories are not doing anything for one of the things that I struggle with the most, which is hunger. So I'd rather go without. And sometimes that doesn't always work very well with that particular social dynamic. Hmm. I think you're right. That's understandable. So what do you do then to... overcome, deal with this, make this less stressful for you and also the people around you. The communication around it is really important, like you've been doing, Katie. It's letting people know that I'm the inconvenience and me taking ownership for that. Like they're not inconveniencing me by making more food or by trying to treat me with something because it's my decision not to eat those things. So it's about making people aware of where I'm at, what I've got going on just being polite of it and that Yeah, okay, might make me feel a bit uncomfortable saying I don't want something, but it's better than feeling that pressure there and then in that moment, or it's better than then not perhaps knowing why I've said yes two weeks ago or three weeks ago, but now I'm saying no this time. So being open and saying... This is the stage that I'm in right now. It's not because I don't appreciate the food or I don't want more of the food. It's simply because I've got this particular goal and I'm just not eating these types of foods right now. That's all. makes me feel more comfortable. It makes me feel more settled in attending family events. And makes me feel more polite for them And I don't want anyone to waste food on my behalf. I don't want them to go and think they're doing a nice thing, buying me something that I can eat that I enjoy. But then I get to their house and I'm like, no, I don't want that. I don't want them to be in that position either. So I'd rather them in advance that, okay, I'm ⁓ a calorie deficit at the moment or I'm trying to lean down or whatever it is. Please don't give me the temptation and please don't go buying things on my behalf at this moment in time I'm not going to eat it. Because it's not just the battle of saying no for your goals. someone's gone out of their way to ⁓ kind and generous towards you, you've also got that battle of, ⁓ want them to waste their money, I don't want them to waste their time, their energy. It's morally difficult as well then, isn't it? It's not your decisions are impacting you, you don't want that to hurt or upset anyone else. ⁓ And ⁓ where is. is important because ultimately those around you are close to you just want the best for you but how can they do the best for you if they don't know what you're striving for, what works for you. without communication. There's also times where need to accept that I can be a bit more flexible too. There's big difference between a spontaneous last minute decision to go to your parents for Sunday dinner you decide on like a Thursday or Friday and having a birthday or a specific event that's been in the diary for a few weeks or a few months. If it's pre-planned then I can choose to work my fat loss phase around that. Am I going to have a maintenance day on that day? Am I going to try and be a bit more flexible? Do I really need to push this deficit on this day and have to deal with all the social dynamics and all communication and this and the other? can I just say, ⁓ going to, because I am the inconvenience with wanting to try and stay in a calorie deficit. Should I just say, right, I'm going to take a maintenance day, remove that barrier, remove all that of to and fro in, and then ⁓ will. put that deficit day somewhere else. So there is an option to be flexible too. And it's understanding that you hold the power to choose, like even our members, we will help to support whatever decision they make, but ultimately the decision on whether they want to be in a deficit or go to maintenance for an event is theirs. We will provide all the information on how to do that correctly, how to have a better experience with it. weigh up the pros and cons with them, talk about what the pros and cons are for their context, for where they are at this stage of their journey. But ultimately, it's their decision on whether they choose to stay in deficit for a social event or go back to maintenance. Either way, it's not going to be the end of the world. It's not the biggest decision in the world. It's not going to dramatically change your results. You're that one decision to have an extra couple of hundred calories in deficit for that day or go back to maintenance. is not going to change the outcome that much. It really isn't. But sometimes it's about continuity. Sometimes it's about momentum. Sometimes it's about where your motivation lies at that period in time and you don't want to disrupt that flow of events. So. It's adapting and being flexible sometimes too, which is again something I feel like I've got better at doing as time has gone on through experience. I agree. I think it's knowing when to be more flexible and when not to. And that very much depends on you as an individual. I must write for you in that moment because if it's an odd one off occasion during your three week fat loss phase, for example, or six week fat loss phase, like Sean said, the calc of under calories really is not going to make a dent in any bit. But if you are continually finding yourself in the position once a week, twice a week for your whole fat loss period where you are taking yourself out of a deficit or eating three to five hundred calories more than you planned, then that's where that can really snowball and take you out of enough of a deficit for you to see the results that you really want. And that's where then you deciding yes or no in that moment is important because one-off event here and there really not going to be much of a bother and not hard to save some calories for in days around or days after it. But if that's happening more frequently, that's when you do want to check in with yourself to understand what is it that I really want right now and what decisions am I willing to make to make that happen. Because ultimately, if you're not in a calorie deficit, you're not going to lose body fat, but you could end up leaving yourself feeling a bit frustrated if you were trying on days around it to events to be a source of situations to make the right choices but then those one or two events a week maybe three are impacting things negatively taking you out to that calorie deficit that can be a really frustrating place to be and that's where you've really got to rely on your decision making and also using the tools to support you during those times. Well said. Something that we don't experience as much of, but what other people experience is the pressure and the influence of other people in that social environment too. And that also comes down to communication. It's just a different communication to what we experience here. I don't ever feel pressured by somebody else to have to eat a certain way. There's other social pressures that other people will experience as well, but I think this isn't necessarily our struggle and we're talking from our perspective and our experience now. So we'll talk about this another time on another podcast. I think it's the whole environmental situation because there are pressures you write the pressures with. Oh, you're leading that now or even, you know, if you believe in more maintenance. I think the social... have a bit of a life, live a little kind of thing. That pressure can come out sometimes in certain social environments and... I think. I think it's another podcast, isn't it? Yeah, it's something that probably could be discussed in itself, but. But like Katie correctly said, it's about identifying what's more valuable to you now. A fat loss phase should be a temporary phase. It's not gonna last forever. you reserve the right to choose whether you want to go a little bit harder, a little bit faster, a little bit stricter now and get through it faster, get through this fat loss phase quicker, be done with it sooner, or and have a bit more flexibility in the moment, but then. the trade off you make for that is you're gonna get slightly slower results. It might be harder to stick to the fat loss phase because you're confusing the signaling what you're feeding your body and what sort of responses you're getting to those foods. So are the choices that you need to make. For me, I just find that I spend so much of my year having so much food choice and plenty of food available to me it's worth it for me to just communicate when I'm in a fat loss phase, try and be as strict with those events as possible. But the same time, ⁓ if is a big event, if it is gonna make it... everything really inconvenient for the person involved that's preparing the food or serving the food then I can just be a bit more flexible. Your choice in that moment, isn't it? And only that choice. Because only that choice is important, so you don't feel guilty after it as well. Let's wrap up everything we've talked about and provide a little bit of handy summary from our experiences and what we find challenging in a fat loss phase. I think it's fair to say that different people have different struggles, clearly, Ours are very different. But working together helps massively. And that goes beyond just us two, it extends to that are in your life on ⁓ day to day and regular basis. The environment you surround yourself with and environment put yourself into when you're in a fat loss phase can have a significant impact ⁓ on your your adherence and your emotions in that phase. Within those environments, you may need to compromise a little, but you can also play to each other's strengths to support each other if you have got someone to help you out in that far-lost phase. you haven't, having a community around you can help with that too. It might help to ask somebody around you to hold you more accountable. Katie, you mentioned earlier that there are times where you've benefited from me giving you a bit more accountability. How? How has that benefited you and how do you like me to hold you accountable? Most of the time, yes. I'm only laughing. No, generally I do. Of course there's moments where I'm like, oh for God's sake, I know he's right, but I even want to listen to him. It's normally when you're one hand in the chocolate basket. Yeah, you're probably right. And no, that extra accountability is helpful. I think most humans, if not all, thrive off a little bit more accountability with things because that's that extra layer of commitment. that goes beyond just yourself. What sort of communication do we have? So say you wanted me to hold you accountable. What would you say to me? Like, how would you word that to me so that I can make sure I hold you accountable without making you feel like I'm on your back or I'm getting at you how I like to approach this with Sean is I ⁓ ask him to... Communicate with me if he sees me ⁓ doing a habit that isn't going to serve me. If he sees me carrying out a habit that have communicated with him that I don't want to be doing, I don't want to lean into. I just ask him to not call me out in a critical way because that will lead to me being defensive, but just for him to highlight it ⁓ ask me, is that... An action that I really want to be doing right now is that, gonna help me with the results, do I really want to be doing that? Rather than, you shouldn't be doing that, that's wrong, don't do that. Would you say that's fashion? I couldn't agree more and This is a really challenging conversation for anyone to have when you get that responsibility given to you and you're the person that has to go put the chocolate down. what crazy said, the last thing you want is somebody in those moments where you're feeling stressed, you're reaching out for chocolate or you're reaching out for something or you you're almost in that kind of like semi half guilty kind of half kind of you're being a bit naughty stage anyway. you're kind of thinking, should I really be doing this as a part of your brain that probably switches on and goes, don't know if I should be going over this right now. And then when somebody comes in and goes, you shouldn't be eating that. You just want to go, F off, I'm eating it anyway. So doesn't work if you're going to be confrontational about it. doesn't work like you can't call somebody out over this and you can't project your own food insecurities onto somebody else either. And being like, well, that's bad for you when you're in a fast. No, you don't want to be starting to add labels and things. But what Katie said is really important. It's asking the right questions and getting her to reflect upon that action or that behavior before she does it. Have you got calories for this today? Have you planned to have this today? Do you really want this food right now or is there something else going on? Is it worth having that right now? Let them think about it. And then you're not in the wrong if they end up eating it and they're hungry later and they're moaning at you and then you go, well, I told you not to eat it. then we decided to divorce papers. You me that you had calories for this and that you weren't hungry today and you're not in an emotional state before you ate four bars of chocolate. ⁓ Now telling me you're hungry and you're pissed off. Meh. And this is another point as well, Make sure you record every conversation you have with your partner when they're in a calorie deficit. Because you need evidence. it will be denied. Right, so back to the summary. Communication is absolutely crucial. I think we just covered that in the point we just made, didn't we? Yeah, I agree. Definitely. It is... how you speak and communicate is important every day, But when perhaps you're a little bit more temperamental too, may be more important. Absolutely. Limiting exposure to your outside influences and weaknesses can make the experience easier, having a bit more control over your environment like we mentioned. And the more tightly controlled you can keep a fat loss phase, the sooner you will be done with it and the easier time you'll have getting through it. A little bit more restriction in the short term can actually mean you have a little bit more flexibility in the longer term or get back to it quicker. You can still have some flexibility in a fat loss phase, but it is going to look different to maintenance. And if you push the boundaries too far with flexibility, then fat loss can become a very long, arduous, and possibly even unsuccessful process. you set yourself up for just a bit of a battle all the time rather than feeling confident ⁓ driven by the results that you're getting. That wraps up the podcast. If you have found any these tips helpful in this podcast today, leave us a comment below to let us know which ones have helped you the most. Now we also have a fantastic mini series which you can watch that will help you to make your next fat loss phase faster and even easier to stick to. So if you have trouble managing your decisions with food or you question if you're on the right calories or losing the right amount of weight every week, this can help you out. Head to the description after this podcast and click the link to master your calorie deficit. That is all for this week, but next week we will be back to answer a very common question about fat loss. How much weight should I expect to lose in a week? The golden question. We'll share how this differs from individual to individual between different approaches and how to know if greater rates of weight loss are better or not. See you all next time.