Latest / Financial Planner Search / The Human Side of Finance & Judgment-Free Zones with William Pitney | Financial Planner Search
Transcript
- Gregory Wilnau: All right, William, thank you so much for joining us today. How are you doing, man? William Pitney: I'm doing well and I appreciate the invitation. Gregory Wilnau: Yeah, absolutely. I'm excited to learn more about you, learn about your story, what you do for your clients, and then just get to know you a little bit better. So the first thing I like to, I am too. The first thing I like to do is just understand more about your story, kind of what you do, what you specialize in, and maybe how you got started. So maybe you could tell me a little about, a little bit about maybe what led you to choose this, this career. William Pitney: I'm looking forward to it, yes. I appreciate that. I started off after graduating from business school. I went to work for High Tech America. Life was good. This was what? Back in 1996. And then in the fall of 19, I mean the spring, 97, got married. And then in the fall, shortly after I got married, I received a phone call from my mother-in-law. who said her husband had been diagnosed with stage four cancer. So up until that time, know, to me, finance was just a personal thing that I did in my house. I didn't think much of it ⁓ as a career because coming out of business school, was either sales stocks or selling insurance. wasn't about the planning part. And I was more into the planning part and the human side of money. So like I said, I went to work for tech, but then... That phone call from my mother-in-law that changed everything. So... When the diagnosis came, they said it was stage four and I knew things would, that was pretty bad. So just given who I was over the next 16 months or so, I would ask them infrequently, know, something happened to the dad, would mom be okay? And each time they said yes, they said they had spoken to their financial counselor and he assured them that everything would be okay. Gregory Wilnau: Mm. Mm-hmm. William Pitney: Well, George died slightly before Thanksgiving 1999 and none of the children nor I knew anything about the financial counselor. We hadn't seen any of the numbers. So my in-laws were like most adults from that time period. They kind of kept their finances to themselves. Well, in March 2001, that's when we learned Gregory Wilnau: Mm-hmm. William Pitney: that things were not as well as we had been led to believe. So my mother-in-law, she would typically call me in the evenings to say hi, call and have conversation. But in this particular day, she called us right before work, 7 a.m. And I said, this is an unusual phone call coming from her this time of the morning. So when I picked it up, ⁓ she said, good morning. She said, ⁓ William, this is mom. I'm calling to let you know that I am moving. Gregory Wilnau: No. William Pitney: So the first question I had, is she moving because you want to, or are you moving because you have to? And she told me that she had lost the house, they exhausted their savings, and essentially she had nothing because of all the medical bills following all the cancer treatments. So of course I'm pissed off and irritated. These are the early days of the internet, so I spent many evenings over the next couple of weeks and weekends. trying to do some web searches to see if I could find a solution to help her. And while I couldn't find anything that could provide immediate relief to her, I did come across the Certified Financial Planning Board of Standards. I found that CFP certification and I read and I was like, well, this is what I was looking for coming out of graduate school. A few weeks later, I was enrolled in UCLA's personal finance ⁓ certification program and the rest is history. Gregory Wilnau: Mm-hmm. William Pitney: So that's how that was the trigger, the impetus for me to do this. And I really had a wonderful experience learning the materials. And I said, when I become a financial professional, I'll make sure that I provide people with complete advice and complete information. And when I look back at my mother-in-law situation, I've had people say, you think they got bad advice? I say, I don't think they got bad advice. I think they received incomplete advice. Gregory Wilnau: Mm. Mm. William Pitney: And I typically see that when someone said, it was bad advice. like, no, it wasn't bad advice. It was just incomplete, or maybe it was out of context. So that's how I got started. Gregory Wilnau: Wow, that's a very personal, powerful story. So it sounds like maybe one of the things that you do is that experience has really shaped how you approach what you do. William Pitney: It really has shaped me. Yeah. Okay. So, ⁓ most of us are not trained to deal with money and you hear all these things about financial literacy, this and financial literacy, that some of those efforts can be beneficial if people are really tuned into it, but there are just some concepts that people just don't get. I don't know if the efforts are worth it. Or for me, when I think about the human side of money, it's not just the quantitative aspects. Gregory Wilnau: You talk about the human side of money specifically. William Pitney: And much of our industry spends a lot of time on the quantitative, quantitative, quantitative. And my undergrad was in sociology. I spent time in graduate school in sociology. So for me, it was always about the interaction between humans and the one area where we tend to interact a lot is around money or the conversations around money and the family dynamics and those types of things. So early in my career, I spent some time. Well, I went to my first FPA conference. And George Kinder, he had a pre-conference workshop. And it is three questions and that sort of triggered my realization that it's not just purely quantitative. There are actually people who are spending time on the qualitative, the human aspects of money. And over time that just continued to evolve and enhance. So after I started my own practice or shortly before I started my own practice in 2011, I had a chance to meet Susan Bradley. Gregory Wilnau: Mm-hmm. William Pitney: through the Sudden Money Institute and much of what she had talked about in some of her workshops have reminded me, well, I understand what my mother-in-law was going through with her own personal transitions and that excited me to be able to say, yes, people go through these transitions, but there are people who've learned how to manage people through these transitions. And again, as I said, much of my training in the beginning from... Working in the sales capacity, of course, you know, we're in a sales industry. ⁓ It was very, very quantitative. And after I had started my firm, I met with one of my dear friends and I had walked her through my initial process, which was pretty much, you know, copy and paste from what I had learned previously. And she was someone who was already in the industry. She understood what we did. And she said to me, William, ⁓ it felt like an interrogation. I was very uncomfortable with that approach. And I was like, oh, I never heard that feedback from anyone. And then a few weeks later, I actually had a chance to go to what we call financial planning nerd camp. There's a conference out here on the West coast called Far West Roundup. went to my, I think it was my second one. I think it was just 2013. Had a chance to meet Amy Mullen and Amy Mullen. Gregory Wilnau: Hmm. William Pitney: and her mother were with money quotient. And through the conversations I had with Amy, she helped me realize that there is a whole body of research that really digs into the experience of people with money. And I began to change how I do things by integrating many of their tools and solutions. And many of my first, I went from having this hardcore, intense quantitative interrogation that I had learned previously. to having a conversation about who you are, how satisfied you are. And I was able to move a lot of the quantitative things out of that first meeting and kind of put that on the paper. And the conversations became more real. I was able to understand where people are, what their pain points are, where their areas of satisfaction come in, what type of transitions that we're going through and the conversation shifted quite a bit. for me, the human side of money is understanding that there's a human behind those numbers. Gregory Wilnau: William, I don't know if I if you can hear me, but I lost you. William Pitney: And as I tell my clients all the time, I can take two families that look the same on paper, have the same or similar goals, but the solutions that we come up with are very personal because of each family's unique experiences with money as individuals and then their own, I'll call it familial interactions, whether it's through the couple or with the kids. So a lot of the experiences I had helped me realize that there is always a human story behind those numbers. Gregory Wilnau: me see if I can... you William Pitney: Frozen Greg. Gregory Wilnau: There he is. William Pitney: Strange. Gregory Wilnau: Can you hear me? William Pitney: I can, can you hear me? Gregory Wilnau: I can. No biggie, we can just pick it right back up. I do see your green screen behind you though. William Pitney: All right. I know and I'm trying to figure out how change that. Gregory Wilnau: No worries, take your time, I'm going to grab a sip of water while you while you do that. Give me one second. William Pitney: Thanks. Gregory Wilnau: All right, there we go. No worries, we'll just be able to edit that right out. William Pitney: Alrighty, so where did you hear me finish? Gregory Wilnau: Yeah. So you were talking about transitioning from a process of what felt like interrogation to something that was much more human. William Pitney: Okay, so I'll start there. Yeah, so after completing the money quotient, training and things, I realized that there was a much better way to move from the quantitative interrogation to something much more human. And by working with money quotient, I was able to take a number of things that used to be in my meeting. made those things that happened before the asking certain quantitative things just to understand. little bit about their finances. And I began to integrate things that learned about client satisfaction, that learned about life transitions, trying to understand what factors led to certain successes and where they thought that they could improve. And frequently what I would hear from people in order to just move up a little bit on their personal satisfaction scores was if I had a plan, if I could see the big picture, if I knew how to get myself back on track. So those are the things that I started to hear. And I started to build my processes and everything around that. And perhaps the most revealing thing for me is I started having more and more people say, I've never had this type of approach before. It's very refreshing. You know, they would come in with their stacks of documents or whatever, and I wouldn't ask for them right away. They were like, well, all the other people I was interviewing wanted all these things upfront, but you haven't asked for them. Why? said, Well, first we have to figure out if there's a mutual basis for relationship. Do you like me enough and do you fit with my demographics? And only after we've gone through this initial conversation, can we determine together whether there's a basis to move forward or if this will be our only meeting. So I don't want all your information if I'm not going to be able to do anything with. Gregory Wilnau: That's fascinating. So what do you think some of the things you've described this approach, ⁓ which does sound very different. What are some of the things that you think you do that are different than what most other advisors would do in your first when you first meet somebody? Obviously, you talked about the stacks of documents, but it sounds like a part of this approach is you probably ask some really good questions. So how do you have you tweaked your what you do when you first meet clients based off of this human approach. William Pitney: I say probably the most important thing I do is we have this idea and we've copyrighted it's called the no guilt zone. So early in my career I had a couple that came in and every time they sat down they were constantly beating themselves up for mistakes they made in the past. And this one particular time I just made this sign you know the zone guilt and I put the little Ghostbuster ⁓ read and striked through and I said, anytime you come into my office, this is the no guilt zone. And I want to give a shout out to one of my former employees, her was Brenda Hernandez. Brenda said to me, hey, William, this is a great idea. Why don't you just take this and make this your process and just brand it? I like, I never thought about it. She said, well, that's what you really do. People come to you, they have certain preconceived notions. They should have done this, they should have done this. And they're constantly beating themselves up and you don't allow them to do that. Gregory Wilnau: Hmm. William Pitney: So essentially what I have created is ⁓ an environment where you can come in. There's no question that's too dumb or too stupid or whatever to ask. To me, just ask the question. ⁓ You may judge it, but I'm not. A lot of people come in with a certain amount of shame and embarrassment because of what they did in the past. And as I tell people all the time, you're an expert at what you do, not in personal finance. So cut yourself some slack. I'm the expert. If you're gonna beat anybody up, beat me up, don't beat yourselves up. And when people come in, as soon as I start hearing the negative talk about, know, woulda, coulda, shoulda, I shut that down right away and I always remind them that you're in the no guilt zone. It is a judgment free zone. I accept you as you are and we take what you have and what you're trying to achieve and we move forward from there. Many of my clients have appreciated that because they know that, you know, when they make a mistake or something, I'm not gonna just. you know, put their nose in and say, see what you did? It's more of a, okay, you've done this and let's see what we can do together to get you back on track. Gregory Wilnau: Why do you think that there is guilt and shame? William Pitney: I would say it's a lot of comparison. A lot of people look and see others and they may do the comparison of, well, I'm not where they are because of X, Y, and Z. Or maybe there's some story from their childhood that's still kind of wrapping them in the head and won't let them go. I've had a number of clients, they have more than enough, but they came in with the belief that if they did manage more frugally, Gregory Wilnau: Mm. William Pitney: that they would end up being bag ladies or whatever else. And no matter how much money they had, there was this thing built inside of them. So I've had to work with people over the years to help them realize that, you know, the numbers are the numbers. The purpose for your money is to help you live the best life possible with what you have, not to keep accumulating. You know, you can accumulate more than just make you feel worse. But if you start to build and live into your ideal life, then we can go from there. Gregory Wilnau: Interesting. So what are some of the ways that after they start working with you, do you work with them at all around reframing that mindset with them on an ongoing basis? William Pitney: In some cases I do, yeah sorry for cutting you off, in some cases I do, but frequently what really starts to happen is people relax. So at some point in the conversations with me, whatever preconceived notions they had or the comparisons they had against other advisors, once they sign on they start to let that go. And ultimately what happens is people get more comfortable. and they feel more free to share. And I think in my first couple of meetings, because I do foster the judgment free zone, they start to understand that that is what I truly do. So they start to open up and really tell me stories. And once I understand the stories behind their own numbers, I'm able to help them make even more informed decisions. Gregory Wilnau: That's fascinating. What are some of the stories, anything in common that you found that your clients come to come to you with? William Pitney: I would say no. All the stories are a little bit different. Everybody's story is a little bit different. One of the stories, early in my independent days, this was back in 2012, 2013, one couple came into me and they told me they were working with three other advisors. I'm like, well, that's a lot. And she shared with me that one advisor was helping with the port foot there. Gregory Wilnau: Everybody's story is different. William Pitney: non-retirement portfolio. Another was happening with a specific annuity and then there was another who had like the Roth account or something. And one of their concerns was that they were not going to be able to retire when they wanted to because each of the advisors had pretty much told them, if you don't have a million dollars when you retire, you can't retire. So that is what had been planted in their heads. And of course they're scared. You know, we're gonna have to sell our house here in the San Francisco Bay area. We're gonna have to relocate to a lower cost state. Won't be near our children and grandchildren. Have to sell my house and we have to work until I'm 70. And I said, I don't know if any of those things are true. And first, I don't know if a million dollars would be enough or maybe too much for your situation. And at the time this was back, like I said. ⁓ Gregory Wilnau: Mm. William Pitney: 2012-2013 I did some basic analysis for them and essentially they were paying a really high interest rate on their home and I had showed them if you refinance your house It'll save you like a thousand dollars a month and you can cut it down to about 10 to 15 years So they were excited about that and they were concerned. Well if one of us dies and you know what happens to the home I said well that thousand dollar savings, we can use a portion of that to buy yourself a small term policy to cover 10 years, 15 years. And they said it sounded like a plan and it freed up quite a bit. So once they became planning clients, we had a conversation and essentially none of the other advisors took the time to get to know who they were as people and all the other resources they had. They just made an assumption about the size of the account that the advisor saw. Gregory Wilnau: Mm. William Pitney: Well, I'll come to find out that they, because they worked in hospitals, they had certain pensions already set aside. They both had social security. So after we did all the deep dive and understanding their numbers, I soon realized that social security and their pensions provided more than enough for what they needed to survive and enjoy life. And the investment portfolio was just an added kicker for them to do some wonderful things. So remember I said they were going to have to move. So Gregory Wilnau: Right. William Pitney: They haven't moved. ⁓ they believe that they would have to work until eight 70. Well, she was able to retire at 64 and he never had to go back to work and they are doing just fine. So it's those sorts of stories that people come in, you know, so-and-so told me, I read this thing and you know, is this true? And a lot of things are taken out of context because again, information is incomplete or what the advisors are offering is incomplete. Gregory Wilnau: Awesome. Awesome. Mm-hmm. Describe some of the ways that you get to know your clients as individuals so that you can tailor your recommendations more towards their unique situation. Help me understand some of the ways that you do that. William Pitney: I appreciate that. Yeah. So again, I'm going to go back to money quotient and set money. They both have certain tools and techniques and processes or protocols that you want to call them that have really helped me develop my own no guilt zone process. So once someone becomes a client, the very first meeting after they become a client, we like to call it our formalized meeting. So focus, we have formalized, optimized. Collaborate unified and stay confident. So in a formalized meeting I tell them we're not going to come up with any solutions in this meeting ⁓ Only if we have time left at the end when we talk about anything quantitative that first conversation is purely a qualitative conversation I'm learning about the His or her background, you know, where did you grow up? What did you learn from your mom and dad? And what was your family of origin? What did you learn from them about money? Tell me about your Gregory Wilnau: Interesting. Yeah. William Pitney: career path and how you have gone from one job to the next job and what led you to that. So I'm really understanding what drove or what motivates the person and then of course I'm going to ask yes. Gregory Wilnau: Yeah, their values, their upbringing. Yeah, why they think a certain way about certain things. I'd imagine that give you a much more intuitive, nuanced understanding of how they think so that you can make even better recommendations. William Pitney: That is group. It really does because as I said earlier, I'm gonna take two families that are the same on paper, same goals, same net worth, everything, but it's those individual stories and what is he telling me? What is she telling me? What are they telling me or not telling me? That helps me start to fill in all the gaps. So I'm looking for what drives this person? What are they looking for? And how can I offer a solution that's gonna work for them? So that's the first thing. So the first meeting that I have with an individual is about 60 to 90 minutes. And with a couple, it's about 90 to 120 minutes. And it's really me trying to understand how they communicate, what their experiences have brought them, other people that may be affected by the decisions they make. And sometimes it's beyond. you know, the immediate family, there may be a cousin or an uncle or an aunt that's also affected by the decisions they make. Sometimes it's friends. So trying to really understand who they are from a comprehensive standpoint. That way, when I do make a recommendation, it's going to be something that works for them. In addition, and this is perhaps the most important thing, as I tell clients all the time, you're an adult, you're going to make decisions. So when we're doing the scenario analysis, There's the ideal, that's what you want. And there's acceptable. And then I work with a range of alternatives in between to try to figure out how to help you live the best life possible with what you have. And it's in that conversation during the scenario analysis, they're telling me what they will do and what they won't do. So I can always say, I can tell you exactly how I would propose you to do this, but I already know you're not gonna do it because you're an adult and you're gonna make up your own mind. So I will build the plan around, I think Tim Ferriss came up with the concept of minimum effective dose. So I try to help them put things in place that'll just move them a little bit and those little bits really start to pay off down the road. So I'm not trying to get them to completely change how they behave or change their spending. It's sort of like, ⁓ let's do this little thing over here or do this little thing over there. And over time it starts to Gregory Wilnau: Of Yeah. Little changes that add up. Okay, I love that. Let's talk more about the person, the people who come to you in that first meeting. Describe maybe somebody who after meeting with them, you're like, okay, this person's ready. ⁓ In contrast with somebody who you're like, ⁓ this person might not be quite ready yet. Could you maybe describe to me maybe some of those differences? William Pitney: Yes. Yes, okay. So I've had ⁓ people come in and they say, well, part of my process, I used to be willing to work with people who wanted to manage their own money because I was one of those people before I became a professional. They're not gonna tell me what to do with my money. But over time, what I started to see, and I saw it consistently, they manage the portfolio and the portfolio gets way out of whack. It doesn't align with what... the overall financial plan says they make less than optimal choices. And then of course they feel guilty about it. So it was probably around 2015, 16 when I said it's all or none. We're to do all the planning and you bring all the investments or I'm going to do none of the planning and none of the investments. There's none of this, you know, back and forth. We'll see kind of thing. It's all or none. And what I have discovered is when it's the all in the clients actually have a much better experience because they stop Messing around on the edges of the portfolio. Of course, I'm gonna have a few clients who say hey Can we just allocate a certain port of this to be our mad money? I'm like sure there's gonna be a certain portion that's mad money, but my job is to protect the core So when in that first conversation somebody says, know now Well used to be in that first conversation. Well, I'm gonna keep managing my own money You know, I would say it doesn't work that way. Thanks. No, thanks Gregory Wilnau: Yeah. Mm-hmm. William Pitney: And now we have a way to filter them out before they even get a conversation with me because, you know, my time is valuable just as their time is valuable and I don't know waste their time. So, ⁓ it's rare now that I get through the first conversation and they're not coming on board because we've done a much better job on the front end of making sure people understand how we operate, what our expectations are, what we expect of them and what they can expect from us. Gregory Wilnau: Right, absolutely. Okay, perfect. Let's describe maybe the, can you describe the kind of person who typically comes to you? Maybe what are they struggling with that finally acts as a catalyst for them to reach out? William Pitney: I appreciate that question. So remember I told you that I came into this profession because of what happened to my mother-in-law. I kind of moved away from that a little bit and I started, you know, I started focusing on the high tech engineering managers and other engineers that I really worked with in my past career. But there was a part of me that just said, you know, this isn't sitting as well as I would like and Gregory Wilnau: Absolutely. William Pitney: I do have a lot of retired engineering managers now and their wives. And historically I would always make sure that, you know, statistically speaking, she's going to outlive him. So my number one job was to make sure that the financial plan worked for both of them, but to make sure she was okay once he moved on. And over time, I started to realize that there was a market of married couples and childless women who were professionals and they didn't have all the Gregory Wilnau: Mm-hmm. William Pitney: familial support that people with adult children had and I started realizing that people were coming in to me, you know, they would I guess they would Google the word financial coach or something and I would pop up and had a number of women back in 16 17 18 who said we like what you said on your website and at the time it was still targeting the engineering managers Can you do this for us? And I was like there's something there and I'm just not paying attention Gregory Wilnau: Hmm William Pitney: So over the course of the next year or two, we started to rebrand and I got back to my roots for why I came into the business and I was making sure what happened to my mother-in-law didn't happen to other women. So we rebranded it, got the new website up and those kinds of things. And then that's when things started taking off. So today, many of my retirees are former high tech engineering managers and their spouses. Many of my clients since I made the transition. They tend to be childless couples or childless women ⁓ who may not get married. And I specialize in work with women and families who have the feeling they could be doing more to just unsure of where to go. Many of them have that nagging feeling that just won't go away. And they come in with a certain amount of negative emotions. And I tell them, when you work with me, we'll set those to the side so we can figure out what it is you're trying to create and how we can work together to help you get there. Gregory Wilnau: Mm-hmm. On that note, help me understand more about how you, the dynamic between you and your clients when you're working on something together. Maybe, let's state it another way, how do you know when to maybe push your client a little bit or maybe pull them a little bit versus when to let them kind of move at their own pace? How do you approach that? William Pitney: Again, every client is unique and that quantitative discussion that I talked about earlier, that helps me understand the pace of what someone moves. You have some people that are gonna make a decision today, and whether it's a big decision, small decision, they're gonna make it right now. And I know I can push that person to be quick. Then I have other people, small decision, big decision, they're gonna take a while because of their makeup. They're gonna need to do a little bit more research. So I'll help them. I will help provide them with what they need in order to make a decision. But my number one job is to be patient and understand that they're going to take a little bit longer. So I'm working at the pace that they're working on. You're talking about pushing or pulling. I've only had one relationship probably in last decade where we had to have a conversation about their spending. They had unrealistic retirement goals. And I was like, this is not going to happen. And we had a heart to heart about it. Gregory Wilnau: Mm-hmm. William Pitney: And the person just refused and unfortunately I had to disengage from their relationship because it was driving me nuts. And, know, while we all want a little bit of wisdom, I was getting too much wisdom. Yeah. But typically, ⁓ these days, the clients start to get more motivated once they see that there is a path to them, to where they want to go again, the ideal solution, the acceptable solution, and then everything in between. Gregory Wilnau: Yeah. I love that. And I love how you taking the time to get to know your clients, making them feel comfortable helps you understand more nuance and how each client operates so that when situations come up, you can either give them the space or encouragement or direction that they need based on what you know about them and how they'll respond best to produce the ⁓ best outcome and experience. So that's great. I love that. William Pitney: Yeah, so the best way to think about it is they are the captain of their ship. I'm the co-pilot. I help them navigate through the turbulence, whatever, but they get to make all the decisions. It's their life, not mine. I have a certain amount of expertise to help enlighten them or provide additional support, but they have to make the decisions and they get to live their life. And many of the women that I've worked with, they frequently tell me that, you know, Gregory Wilnau: Hmm. William Pitney: They've spoken with other guys and they were trying to impose their beliefs and things like that. And I'm like, that's just not cool. My number one objective is to help you live your best life, not based on my values or my perspectives, but based on your values and your perspective. Gregory Wilnau: of that. All right, this next question, it's hard to do, but I want you to brag about yourself for a little bit. So put your humble hat on, right? And tell me what's something that you do for your clients that takes a significant amount of time, but they'll probably never see or know about. William Pitney: Hahaha ⁓ if you were to ask my staff that question, they would say William is like a research geek. So I'm constantly reading up and pouring through because I believe that we can always be a little bit better. ⁓ I earn somewhere between 40 and 80 professional CEs every year. And that's what gets recorded. then there's the, you know, for every two units, there's always one that I don't get to ⁓ report or whatever. I spend a lot of time really constantly tweaking, trying to improve. And it all starts by reading through a lot of the literature and the journals trying to understand how to make the experience even more human. Gregory Wilnau: All right, let's do a couple more, then we'll wrap up. So first of all, let's say the first thing that you do with a client, what was the name of that meeting? William Pitney: My first meeting, we call it the no guilt conversation. Gregory Wilnau: a no-go conversation. Okay, we're gonna come back to that. ⁓ But what I wanna do before we do that is to anyone listening, if you could give one piece of advice, regardless of whether they work with you or not, what would it be? William Pitney: My number one piece of advice is if you're working with someone who claims to be a professional, you want to make sure they're going to take the time to understand who you are, what motivates you, and why you're trying to do what you're trying to do. I frequently hear planners, including some of my closest friends, say to me, all these financial plans are great, it's just the clients are wrong. I'm like, no, the client is always right. The plan just needs to adapt to them. ⁓ One of the things that I have, I tell my clients frequently, this is your plan. The only, you hired me to help facilitate the process to help you get to your planning. know, as Carl Richards like to say, ⁓ it's a verb, it's not a noun. And I tell my clients, at any point in our relationship, you can come to me and say, hey, Gregory Wilnau: Hmm. William Pitney: This was the original plan. We want to scrap it and start over. And I am comfortable with that because it's not my plan. It's your plan. So for instance, I've had couples recently, unfortunately, go through divorce and going through that divorce, you know, things change. And then when you start to split the finances, you look at it, the goals that they had created together were very, very different than what they really wanted to achieve as individuals. And it was like, Gregory Wilnau: Mm-hmm. William Pitney: didn't see that coming but that is awesome. Everything from relocating to another country because they spent their college years there to I really want to travel to these countries I don't want to go to these countries and you look at you like well the plan you two had together never ever ever would have had either of you doing. Gregory Wilnau: I love that. Being able to align on that is super important. Okay, so what I want to ask about is for somebody who's ready for a guilt-free conversation, ⁓ they're in a situation that typically people might find themselves in who come to you, they're ready for that guilt-free conversation. How can they get in touch with you? William Pitney: Yeah, first place I always recommend people go just go to our website now focus you.com F O C U S Y O U.com. You can learn more about us and learn more about our services and process. And if you are ready to connect with us, then you just send an email to info at focus you.com I N F O at F O C U S Y O U.com. And that will initiate the process. Frequently people will just go to the website and book an appointment to have a initial conversation to see if we may be a good fit for them and if they will be a good fit for us. And then others they just want to make a quick phone call and schedule with us and you can reach us out here in the pay area at 650-684-1199. Gregory Wilnau: And to anybody listening, if you want any of that information directly, all of the links and all that information will be below this episode. All right, William, thank you so much for your time and sharing your story and your approach. Really enjoyed it. William Pitney: I appreciate you having me, Greg, and thank you very much for the opportunity. Gregory Wilnau: pleasure.