Latest / The Lila Rose Show / E132: Exorcisms, Demons & The Occult w/ Fr. Carlos Martins

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E132: Exorcisms, Demons & The Occult w/ Fr. Carlos Martins · The Lila Rose Show

• 0:00
  I'm known for a podcast I do on my experiences as an exorcist.
• 0:05
  And that's the Exorcist files. That is correct.
• 0:08
  What was the most difficult exorcism that you ever did?
• 0:11
  Have you sensed sort of themes or patterns in the sorts of sins
• 0:15
  that are involved? No, there's a pattern I mean.
• 0:18
  What are the patterns? God has placed a limit on
• 0:21
  reality, so when you consciously choose to bypass that limit in a
• 0:25
  dabbling in the occult, you are replicating the sin of Lucifer.
• 0:30
  Even if the person doesn't fully realize that.
• 0:33
  Nobody ever chooses to be possessed by the devil, and yet
• 0:37
  it occurs. Father Carlos Martins, welcome
• 0:43
  to the podcast. Thank you very much.
• 0:45
  Good to be here. Thank you for making time for
• 0:47
  this, I know you're very busy right now.
• 0:49
  You're very welcome. It's a pleasure to be here.
• 0:51
  So get first. For people who aren't familiar
• 0:54
  with you, give us a little bit about your background.
• 0:57
  Sure. Yeah.
• 0:58
  So I am. I'm a Catholic priest.
• 1:01
  I'm in my 16th year of ordination.
• 1:04
  I have been the director of a current tour with the the relic,
• 1:10
  the major relics of Saint Jude the Apostle that are here in
• 1:13
  America. It is the first time that they
• 1:16
  have left Italy in 1700 years. So this is special occasion in
• 1:20
  the church and it's a busy time. It brings big crowds and it's in
• 1:25
  a different city every day. I am also, so I'm I'm known for
• 1:31
  conducting expositions of relics for the church, and I'm also
• 1:37
  known for a podcast I do on my experiences as an exorcist.
• 1:44
  And that's the Exorcist files. That is correct.
• 1:47
  Which has been very popular and I think maybe more than you
• 1:50
  imagine when you got into it. It's reached many, many people.
• 1:53
  Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
• 1:54
  It it, it, I mean, I knew that it wouldn't be ignored, but I
• 1:57
  had no idea that it would have the popularity that that it's
• 2:00
  turned out to have. So how many years have you been
• 2:02
  practicing as an exorcist? You know it, it really began.
• 2:06
  It predated my priesthood. I was a Deacon and I was sent
• 2:10
  out to go do house infestations so that the church where I was
• 2:15
  first assigned beginning as a Deacon and then I continued as.
• 2:19
  A priest there. The priests there were the
• 2:23
  exorcists of the of the archdiocese.
• 2:25
  And they were so busy with possession cases and, and
• 2:30
  serious oppression cases that when something lesser would come
• 2:34
  in, like a house hunting, a house infestation where where
• 2:40
  the demons had taken over a space for whatever reason, I, I
• 2:47
  was sent in and, and it happened kind of by accident.
• 2:49
  No one really planned it, but the the the pastor of the church
• 2:54
  there was handed a note by the secretary, you know, another
• 2:57
  house infestation. He just grabbed the note, gave
• 3:01
  it to me and said Demon Deacon, go get rid of the demon.
• 3:04
  So it was. From that time and I saw I, you
• 3:08
  know, I didn't have any training.
• 3:10
  And so I, I would, I would never recommend that this be the
• 3:14
  format in which people are in, in which a cleric is, is brought
• 3:19
  into the ministry. Nevertheless, I, in my sake, I
• 3:24
  would say that it, it turned out to be really fortuitous in the
• 3:28
  sense that everybody's model has its strengths and its
• 3:33
  limitations. I didn't have a model as an
• 3:37
  exorcist. I had to create my own.
• 3:39
  So I just went in and, and what I remember was I had a principle
• 3:43
  in mind and I, I honest, I've tried to recall many times where
• 3:47
  I picked this up and I don't know if I absorbed it from
• 3:51
  somewhere along the way. I don't think I, I did because
• 3:54
  I, I just, I don't have a memory of it.
• 3:57
  But the principle was if the devil is, if evil is present
• 4:00
  somewhere, it's there for a reason.
• 4:02
  It's not random. You know, it doesn't, it doesn't
• 4:06
  strike like out of nowhere, like bad weather.
• 4:08
  It doesn't strike, you know, it's not evil is not the same as
• 4:12
  as bad luck. You know that that was the
• 4:15
  moment that the part broke on your car kind of thing.
• 4:18
  There's a there's a there's a chain of events that were
• 4:22
  dependent upon that happening. And that usually entailed a
• 4:27
  covenant with evil, like some some kind of sin covenant.
• 4:30
  So if the devil is there, in other words, he has the right to
• 4:35
  be there. And so it's a matter of
• 4:38
  uncovering what that right is what was handed to him
• 4:41
  contractually. And so as long as that contract
• 4:47
  exists, so to speak, then he has every right to be there.
• 4:51
  So exorcism is not it. It's not a matter of of
• 4:56
  eviction, like, but the job of the exorcist is not to cast out
• 4:59
  the devil, but to find out why is he there?
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  What rights has he obtained? And then it's his job to work
• 5:07
  with the victim to rescind those rights.
• 5:09
  So it's not a combating like, you know, you, you kind of each
• 5:13
  have a club and you're hitting one another and see who you know
• 5:17
  who's going to outlast the other.
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  That's not what exorcism is. You, you don't, you never pit
• 5:22
  your strength against the demons because they're demons.
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  They're they, they have a lot of strength, but that strength is
• 5:31
  predicated upon the rights. They have to be there.
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  Go after the rights, not the demons.
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  So in a house infestation, which is what you started doing as a
• 5:41
  Deacon before you became a priest, what's an example of a
• 5:45
  right that the demon would have to allow someone to haunt the
• 5:50
  house? Is that haunting of it?
• 5:51
  Is the is that a soul that's haunting the house or is that a
• 5:53
  demon haunting the house? Give us an example of what this
• 5:56
  looks like. Sure.
• 5:58
  Well, I mean the souls and demons are two different things.
• 6:01
  So if it's a ghost, it's it's something else.
• 6:07
  So sticking with demons for the time being, what you have is, is
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  something either attached to the place or to the persons who
• 6:18
  occupy the place. And so they have entered into
• 6:25
  some kind of covenant through an action and a sin.
• 6:29
  And any mortal sin is is a candidate.
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  But you know, people commit mortal sins all the time and
• 6:37
  they don't pick up demons all the time.
• 6:39
  But you know what? Sometime you open the door and
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  there was something behind that door and this is the time.
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  What, Just for folks listening who aren't familiar with the
• 6:48
  language, what is a mortal sin? Yeah, so, so in in Catholic
• 6:53
  theology, and this is this is out of Scripture, this is when
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  when the distinction is made by John the Apostle over sin that
• 7:02
  is deadly and sin that is not deadly.
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  So our term for deadly sin would be mortal sin.
• 7:08
  So it is a serious sin, a serious violation of one of
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  God's commandments. And it is done with full
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  knowledge and deliberate consent, right?
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  It's a, so we're dealing with a matter that is grave.
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  It's done with the, the, the individual transgressors
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  knowledge that this was evil. And it's done with a, with a
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  full consent and adequate consent such that there was a
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  genuine choice that was made there, there was a decision made
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  on the part of the transgressor to transgress God's laws.
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  And so that by definition undoes the, the, the protections that
• 7:48
  your baptism gives you, right? It's at your baptism, you made a
• 7:51
  child of God. God the Father is, is your
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  father. Christ is your Savior.
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  The Holy Spirit is your sanctifier.
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  You become a member of the family of Saints.
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  You receive the gifts, all of the gifts of the Spirit.
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  They're implanted in you instantly.
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  You receive your vocation that the configuration, spiritual and
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  otherwise, that God has planned for you, that now begins to take
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  root in a in a serious way, and you're given everything you need
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  to live this life and to make that passage into eternity in
• 8:27
  God's Kingdom. When this life ends, all of that
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  is undone with one mortal sin. God is not your father anymore.
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  Really. Christ is not your savior, not
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  until there's reconciliation. You rejected him with that you.
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  Rejected him. That's right.
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  That's why it's called Deadly You.
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  Have evicted God from within you.
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  But just for people listening, because I know we've got some
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  scrupulous folks who listen to the show and different people
• 8:52
  have different struggles. But you, in order for it to be a
• 8:55
  deadly sin as you're describing, you need to know that it's a
• 8:58
  deadly sin and fully consent to it.
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  Know that this is wrong and I'm still going to do it freely.
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  This is my choice. No one was holding a gun to your
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  head. You you weren't under a serious
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  duress that would come from, say extreme stress, extreme trauma
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  in your life, wounding, woundedness that your abusive
• 9:22
  husband wasn't making you go get an.
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  Abortion, for example, which? Any, any, any condition like
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  that lessens the gravity of the sin and, and, and it would cease
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  to be mortal. The reality is that when it,
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  when it comes to us making an assessment, it's not easy to
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  tell at times, you know, if something is mortal or not.
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  It's it's, it's not, it's not the easiest thing and it's, it's
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  certainly not self-evident in every circumstance.
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  So when that occurs, see see. The the the.
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  Question that I ask an audience when I'm teaching on exorcism,
• 10:05
  spiritual warfare, and so forth is is I?
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  I ask them, when you were conceived inside your mother's
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  womb, to whom did you belong? And invariably again, wow, my
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  mother and my father. And you know what?
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  That's incorrect. The next answer is usually God,
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  and that's also incorrect. So when you were conceived
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  inside your mother's womb, you belong to the enemy.
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  So you were an act of creation by God who used your parents.
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  Your parents contributed the the biological matter that then
• 10:38
  became life, but God infused the soul in that moment.
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  It took a special act of creation to bring you about.
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  Although you had biological components that followed the
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  laws of nature, but the soul in you was implanted by God in in a
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  miraculous act, a supernatural act.
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  But at the moment that you became a person that you came to
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  be, the moment you began to exist, the penalty for original
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  sin applied to you. And so that original sin from
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  Adam and Eve entailed a or entails A belonging to the to
• 11:17
  the Kingdom of darkness, such that, you know, I mean.
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  It it's it's worth recalling, until the moment Christ rose
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  from the dead, no one went to heaven.
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  But did everyone go to hell? Everyone did.
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  No Hell was eternal for the wicked, but not eternal for the
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  holy. But they were waiting for the
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  Messiah that would set them free.
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  And that's also called limbo. Nope, Limbo.
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  Limbo is it has no scriptural or theological bait.
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  It was amusing. It was a it was theorized by by
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  Saint Augustine. It was a creation, but but it
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  was it was hell in the sense that it was a place of.
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  Eternal separation from God, right, a state of eternal
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  separation so Saint Joseph, foster father of Jesus, he was
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  he was in hell Moses the. Prophets.
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  John the Baptist, right? No man born of woman was ever
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  greater than John the Baton. These these are the words of the
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  Lord. He was in hell.
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  A hell with fire and brimstone. What kind of hell are we
• 12:27
  talking? I've never been so I couldn't
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  tell you but. Have you asked a demon?
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  I wouldn't believe him anyway because he wouldn't be obliged
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  to answer that. We can compel a demon to answer
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  truthfully about this situation. How is he inside Mrs. Shep House
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  here? How did he get there?
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  What rights does he have over Mrs. Shep?
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  House and he has to be honest about that.
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  Well, not willingly, but you grind them down, you grind, you
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  can compel that and, and it, it, it can take a longer time, it
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  can take a lesser time, but you compel that because of the
• 13:02
  authority you have as an exorcist and you've been
• 13:05
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  So. I want to get to understanding
• 14:39
  exorcism more and also lay people's role in that, people
• 14:43
  who are evangelical, they're not even Catholics, etcetera, and
• 14:45
  just in deliverance in general. But what you just said is so
• 14:48
  interesting and I think a lot of people listening and myself are
• 14:51
  thinking, it sounds so strong to say, oh, this innocent little
• 14:55
  soul, yes, conceives an original sin, but you know, created by
• 14:58
  God is you use the word. I think I don't want to get the
• 15:03
  phrasing incorrectly here, but. They belong to the devil.
• 15:06
  They belong to the. Devil, it has a jurisdiction
• 15:08
  over them. This is why we baptize, because
• 15:11
  we're applying the victory of the Messiah to to this child, to
• 15:15
  this new. Life and if baptism isn't done.
• 15:19
  Then that's a problem and there's death.
• 15:21
  Then this is a problem and and. What about still birth?
• 15:27
  Well, so so the church, all the church.
• 15:31
  Can do as as being guided by the spirit of truth is it can repeat
• 15:37
  the truth that is given to it by God and beyond that it has to be
• 15:42
  silent. So we know and have a certainty
• 15:47
  that the sacraments give life because the seven sacraments are
• 15:50
  the seven ways Jesus Christ left to heal the world, right?
• 15:56
  They convey divine life and divine life is the highest form
• 16:00
  of life. Obviously it's a share in God's
• 16:03
  very being. When you baptize, you have a
• 16:05
  knowledge, a certainty. This child here that was just
• 16:09
  baptized is the newest member of of the Communion of Saints.
• 16:15
  That this person, this child, this new life, that this, this
• 16:19
  newborn who has now been born again is, has a right to enter
• 16:25
  heaven. And that right remains.
• 16:27
  And no one and and and no one and nothing can take that right
• 16:31
  away. Save a mortal sin so when he or
• 16:36
  she gets older and eventually misuses his or her freedom, then
• 16:43
  the effects of the baptism are undone The the.
• 16:46
  Baptism is not undone, but their effects are until there is
• 16:50
  reconciliation with God. So to understand this correctly,
• 16:55
  if there is a soul or horrifically in the case of an
• 16:58
  abortion, the case of a miscarriage, of course, still
• 17:00
  birth baptism has not been completed.
• 17:03
  Of course you're saying is the church can't affirmatively say
• 17:06
  where those souls go. We do not have that knowledge,
• 17:09
  but we can trust in the greatness and the grace, grace
• 17:11
  of God. We can hope.
• 17:12
  We hope we we look to God who wants the salvation of all more
• 17:17
  than you and I do. Yes, Amen.
• 17:18
  And so he is the author of the hope within us.
• 17:22
  So we but we don't have the certainty and, and this is the
• 17:26
  what we have to reconcile with and that the sacraments, the,
• 17:30
  the jurisdiction that God has given the church is there to
• 17:34
  provide a certainty and it's a wonderful thing.
• 17:38
  And when that certainty, when that certainty can't be had,
• 17:43
  when it can't be applied, when something falls outside the
• 17:47
  domain and, and the jurisdiction of the church, the church prays.
• 17:55
  But as a, as a, as a, as a teacher, it is silent at that
• 18:00
  point because we don't know. We don't know the eternal fate
• 18:02
  of a still birth of, of the soul of a stillborn baby, of the soul
• 18:06
  of an aborted baby. We don't know the eternal fate.
• 18:09
  This is where limbo came through, right?
• 18:11
  Because look, we, it's, it's it's part and parcel of
• 18:17
  revelation that every single soul descended to hell upon
• 18:24
  their deaths, that this, this is a fact of original sin.
• 18:28
  And This is why when Christ died, when he descended into
• 18:31
  hell, right? Because so when he descended, he
• 18:35
  was receiving the punishment meted out to every human soul.
• 18:41
  But what what scripture says is but but death.
• 18:45
  Could not contain him. Right, because he had lived the
• 18:49
  righteous life. So he had, he was the son of God
• 18:52
  who had paid the penalty. And so he's coming down as he's
• 18:56
  going down as one of the losers and he comes up as the victor
• 19:00
  releasing the souls. And This is why on on Good
• 19:04
  Friday, they, they see the dead walking the streets, right?
• 19:07
  So he has now released the righteous, and there was
• 19:11
  physical evidence of that. I think to the modern
• 19:14
  sensibility, especially today, this idea that you can be an
• 19:19
  innocent child, innocent in terms of not using your reason
• 19:23
  to commit a sin, not willing to commit a sin.
• 19:25
  You can be a child, whether you're preborn or newborn or two
• 19:28
  years old, and you still have this penalty of original sin
• 19:33
  attached to you, especially if you haven't been baptized,
• 19:35
  right. You need the baptism to undo
• 19:36
  that penalty. I think to the modern
• 19:39
  sensibility it seems unfair. Sure.
• 19:42
  What would you say to that? Sin is unfair.
• 19:44
  Sin is unfair. I mean, it's unfair when a baby
• 19:48
  is born to a crack mother in prison that that's unfair.
• 19:53
  But that injustice exists, right?
• 19:55
  So we're we're talking about yes, and even greater injustice
• 19:58
  than that. But injustice exists.
• 20:02
  So the very fact that Adam and Eve sinned was unfair to all the
• 20:05
  people who would be affected by. That the entire universe.
• 20:09
  It didn't RIP just human souls. The entire universe was changed,
• 20:14
  right? It became hostile, A hostile, it
• 20:17
  needed the direct intervention of God.
• 20:21
  It needed that. So Christ and and look, you
• 20:25
  know, if we lose sight of the extent of the penalty of
• 20:30
  original sin and the mistake that Adam made and, and I'm
• 20:35
  specifically isolating him. So let's leave Eve aside for a
• 20:38
  second, OK? The sin was Adam's because the
• 20:41
  covenant was made with him, not with Eve.
• 20:44
  So there's, there's a debate about this, there's debates
• 20:46
  about all of this stuff, as you know, theological and otherwise,
• 20:48
  but about it being Eve who sinned first and then tricked
• 20:54
  Adam into sinning. And in that sense, Eve, you know
• 20:56
  this is. She sinned, but it wasn't a
• 20:59
  deadly sin and the covenant was not made with her.
• 21:02
  When Adam sit, when Adam ate the fruit, then all hell broke
• 21:07
  loose, right? That's that's when.
• 21:11
  The covenant was violated and now everything is different.
• 21:15
  Death, sickness has entered into the world.
• 21:17
  And why was the covenant not made with both Adam and Eve
• 21:21
  equally? Why just with Adam?
• 21:22
  That you would have to know the mind of God for that, but that's
• 21:25
  what happened. And This is why Christ had to be
• 21:28
  a new Adam to fulfill what was undone by the old Adam.
• 21:34
  And This is why Christ was prepared in Catholic theology by
• 21:37
  Mary, the New Eve who birthed him.
• 21:40
  And so there is there is a parallel here.
• 21:43
  So, so God did something with it, with creation, originally
• 21:47
  with the our first two parents, and they violated that perfect
• 21:52
  order that that that God instituted.
• 21:56
  And so God brought about a new Adam and a new Eve it in order
• 22:01
  to it in order to, to to reconcile and and to renew what
• 22:07
  was spoiled and and and marred by sin.
• 22:13
  And that very first sin, I mean, surely it was a test of
• 22:17
  obedience. I mean, all of God's law, we it,
• 22:19
  we are to obey even if we don't fully understand something.
• 22:23
  But what exactly was the nature of Adam's first sin and Eve's?
• 22:30
  You had to have the potential for sin in order for love to be
• 22:36
  authentic and real. Because if there isn't the
• 22:39
  possibility to reject love, then there is no love, right?
• 22:43
  Then it then it's fake. And so now you have you, you,
• 22:47
  you need to introduce a dynamic where it is possible for me as
• 22:52
  your creature God to reject you in order for my love to be
• 22:57
  authentic. Like in order in order for my
• 22:59
  embracing to be authentic, there has to be the possibility of me
• 23:03
  turning away from you. And that's what they did.
• 23:07
  So they had a knowledge based on faith that God was supremely
• 23:15
  good, right? He was.
• 23:17
  He was their their benefactor. And along came the serpent and
• 23:21
  he. Told a lie.
• 23:22
  And he usurped them by making them desire more than what they
• 23:26
  already had. So was it in a sense, was it
• 23:29
  some sort of greed that was the first thing, greed for to be as
• 23:33
  powerful as God or as wise as God?
• 23:35
  Agreed. You you could.
• 23:36
  You could label it with different words.
• 23:39
  So greed was a part of it to want more than your share and
• 23:43
  also a distrust of God. Wait, he's been lying to you?
• 23:46
  He has. Oh.
• 23:49
  You know, so you have also the very fact that, you know, Eve
• 23:55
  dialogued with the serpent and he said, you know, did he really
• 23:59
  tell you not to eat from any of the trees in the garden?
• 24:02
  Well, no, it's a patent line. I mean that that's incorrect.
• 24:06
  And she went and corrected him. No, we can eat from any tree
• 24:09
  except that one tree, else we will die.
• 24:13
  Oh, you won't die. So that dialogue already her
• 24:16
  entering into the dialogue was her, so she.
• 24:19
  Should have known not to talk to the snake, right?
• 24:22
  And and why? Why, why should she have known
• 24:24
  that? Even if.
• 24:27
  Even if she didn't know, Adam should have known.
• 24:30
  He was given the charge to guard and cultivate the garden, right?
• 24:35
  It was his job to keep watch, and he was silent.
• 24:38
  He allowed this to happen and when she ate it so.
• 24:41
  Was that in a sense the first sin, even before her sin of
• 24:45
  dialoguing with the serpent? That that there was it was a
• 24:49
  sin, but it was not a deadly sin.
• 24:50
  It it all of. This set the.
• 24:51
  Stage for that when Adam bit into that fruit, there's the sin
• 24:56
  that. That we're all hell broke loose.
• 25:00
  So exorcism, Let's go to that. Because so if we get the Adam
• 25:05
  and Eve stuff wrong, nothing else is going to make sense
• 25:10
  there. You will never see a need for a
• 25:12
  Messiah and a savior if you don't understand what happened
• 25:15
  in Eden, right? If, if, if the If the problem is
• 25:21
  misunderstood, the solution will make no sense.
• 25:25
  I think some people are wake up to reality about these things
• 25:29
  through experiences like with the demonic, it scares them.
• 25:33
  And that's where the proof hits the pudding, right?
• 25:35
  That that's where biblical exegesis become.
• 25:39
  It becomes real really fast. Although I would say some
• 25:43
  people, and I've heard this from, you know, people I've
• 25:45
  gotten to speak with directly, they may have an experience with
• 25:48
  the demonic, but it doesn't fully lead them to God
• 25:51
  unfortunately. They try to seek solutions
• 25:53
  outside of the truth of original sin, the truth of Christ's gift
• 25:58
  for us in his own life, and redemption through Him alone.
• 26:02
  And then I'll. But I've seen that people can
• 26:05
  kind of sustain a different worldview around these things
• 26:09
  without perpetual and demonic assault.
• 26:11
  And is that because perhaps the demon is giving some space for
• 26:14
  them to be misled? I, I wouldn't have an answer for
• 26:18
  that because I would need to know the mind of the devil, but
• 26:21
  but also God, he's also at play and he has a plan.
• 26:28
  And so yes, I mean, these are questions we always get like
• 26:31
  why, you know, two different people were involved in, in Syn
• 26:36
  X, one of them gets infected demonically, but not the other.
• 26:40
  Why I don't have an answer for that?
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• 28:30
  Exorcisms for a moment here. What was the most difficult
• 28:33
  exorcism that you ever did? Gosh, you know that it's
• 28:41
  impossible to answer because they're all different from a
• 28:43
  different perspective, Difficult in terms of the subject.
• 28:48
  Like it could be a very young child that's difficult simply
• 28:52
  because of the the innocence of the child.
• 28:55
  And how would a young child become possessed?
• 29:00
  If the if the child is is is before the age of reason, so so
• 29:04
  incapable of committing a sin because of there there isn't a
• 29:07
  sufficient maturity there through some covenant made by
• 29:11
  the parents, perhaps a consecration to a particular
• 29:15
  witch, doctor or a deity through some generational sin that is
• 29:22
  there some generational covenant that remains so so.
• 29:27
  What's an example of that? Well, a pact made with the devil
• 29:32
  by a great great grandfather, for example.
• 29:38
  For like worldly blessings and his family.
• 29:40
  Worldly blessings, treasure for a particular woman to agree to
• 29:47
  marry him, etcetera. Anything, any, any earthly good,
• 29:50
  any created good. You make a, you make a pact, you
• 29:52
  make a deal. And what are you willing to put
• 29:54
  on the table? I what I want is I want a life
• 30:00
  down the road. I I want one of your future
• 30:04
  grandchildren whom you will never meet, Let's say.
• 30:07
  Let say the devil offers that. Have you run into scenarios
• 30:10
  where this was actually the case?
• 30:11
  Absolutely, for sure. And it's not even that rare.
• 30:16
  What's an example? Well, there is, there is one
• 30:20
  for, for safe passage out of a war-torn area, right for for the
• 30:26
  whole family. So this was not for, you know, I
• 30:29
  would like to have a Ferrari or a Lamborghini.
• 30:32
  This, this was something which which actually it took place
• 30:38
  centuries ago. So this this came up in the
• 30:41
  exorcism. So that there was this covenant
• 30:44
  made, there was a pact made, a deal made with a sorcerer, A
• 30:49
  soothsayer, an an agent of the devil who who who worked out
• 30:54
  deals on his behalf, and that that covenant was made in
• 31:01
  exchange for safe passage out of a war-torn area of Europe.
• 31:06
  And the child was affected down the line generations.
• 31:08
  Later, several were, several were.
• 31:12
  So what is the remedy then? Before I even ask that, I'm
• 31:18
  sorry, I have to ask. Why do you think God permits
• 31:20
  that? Generational sin exists because
• 31:27
  of the way that God has constructed the universe, which
• 31:29
  he's constructed A moral universe.
• 31:32
  So it is possible to do wrong and we are all connected to one
• 31:37
  another. So when you do something wrong,
• 31:39
  it affects me and everybody else in the world and vice versa
• 31:44
  because we are all connected. So what you.
• 31:48
  So look, generational sin, I, I have encountered discussions
• 31:53
  online and even articles written in in periodicals and so forth,
• 31:58
  even some written by, by theologians, even even some by
• 32:02
  priests where they deny the existence of original sin.
• 32:05
  I'm sorry of generational sin, but generational sin is, is
• 32:12
  there are many instances of it. For example, original sin, we
• 32:17
  baptized to get rid of it. That's a generational sin,
• 32:20
  right? This child conceived in the womb
• 32:23
  had no part of Adam's sin and yet the penalty of Adam is is
• 32:29
  applied to this baby. When David, when he took a
• 32:35
  census against the law of God, God brought down a punishment
• 32:39
  and he had to pick between 3 punishments.
• 32:41
  He had to pick which one do you want.
• 32:44
  All of the punishments were meted out on his people, not on
• 32:49
  him. But he was the one who sinned.
• 32:52
  And he said, why should my people suffer for my sin?
• 32:57
  And yet. That's what did God say?
• 33:00
  He had to pick it. It's just that that the the
• 33:05
  leader, he who had spiritual jurisdiction.
• 33:09
  So in addition to political authority, he had a spiritual
• 33:12
  authority and he sinned. And so this now comes down on
• 33:15
  the people. Well, and this is how the world
• 33:17
  works, right? Parents it, like you said, the
• 33:19
  mother to the drug addicted, the child of the drug addicted
• 33:22
  mother or the people who live in the nation with the corrupt
• 33:25
  leader who gets them into war or other abuses that harms the
• 33:28
  people. It's the way of the world.
• 33:32
  David sinned with Bathsheba right and then and then put her
• 33:36
  husband on the front lines to hide his sin and had him
• 33:39
  murdered. The baby died as a result of
• 33:42
  that. The Scriptures are very clear
• 33:45
  right that the baby's life was taken, and there you have an
• 33:48
  example of a generational sin. But we can hope, and this is
• 33:53
  where we look to God's mercy because we know it's greater
• 33:57
  than our own. And whatever compassion or
• 34:00
  empathy we have for the all of the victims of evil, which are
• 34:03
  endless, we are all victims of evil in one way or another as
• 34:05
  much as we also commit evil. And for that child in the
• 34:09
  situation of Bathsheba and David, God's mercy for that
• 34:12
  child is greater than even the sin and the death even of that
• 34:15
  child. And that's where the hope comes
• 34:17
  in. And so as an exorcist, as as a
• 34:20
  priest. I'm I'm a person of hope first.
• 34:25
  If I wasn't, then I wouldn't survive.
• 34:28
  What do you mean by that? I wouldn't be able to do this
• 34:30
  work. I wouldn't be able to deal with
• 34:32
  the ugly things that I do right. And at the end of the day, you
• 34:36
  know, you can't help because you're human.
• 34:37
  You look at a situation like I just, I'm grieved for all of
• 34:41
  this from start to finish. And you walk away.
• 34:46
  You drive away, you drive home, you drive in silence and you
• 34:50
  might be haunted for the rest of the evening.
• 34:52
  You might be haunted for the next day as well.
• 34:54
  And, but at a certain point you just say this God has a plan.
• 34:59
  And, and, and what, what I have to acknowledge here in this
• 35:03
  moment, I am not God. I don't have to have a plan.
• 35:08
  I don't know how to get out of this.
• 35:09
  I don't know how to make this better like this.
• 35:12
  And if I could, I would do it immediately.
• 35:14
  But he's God, he's chosen to not do it in the way that I would do
• 35:19
  it. And that's his prerogative.
• 35:22
  And so my job is to just serve him in the way that he wants me
• 35:25
  to serve him. And there's a freedom within
• 35:28
  that, even though in the midst of ugliness, in the in the midst
• 35:31
  of horror, or you see things that are that are.
• 35:35
  Sad. That are that are grievous and
• 35:39
  egregious and you, you just, you have to turn it loose.
• 35:43
  Can you share an example of an exorcism that you performed that
• 35:48
  was particularly difficult for you, maybe on an emotional
• 35:52
  level, just dealing with the pain of the person that you're
• 35:55
  is suffering and then how you dealt with that in the aftermath
• 35:58
  personally? They're, they're all difficult
• 36:01
  in that sense because they're all emotional, right?
• 36:03
  You're dealing with somebody in need and you as the exorcist,
• 36:07
  you're standing in the breach. So you're, you're facing a being
• 36:11
  that is immortal and that was there from the beginning.
• 36:17
  He, he, he is not equal with God, but he predates you
• 36:21
  immensely. And, and in his nature, he's far
• 36:25
  superior than you in his nature, in his intellect, in his cunning
• 36:28
  and his strength and, and frankly, in just the hatred that
• 36:32
  he has. So that's a sobering thing,
• 36:35
  right? Like those kinds of like, I
• 36:37
  never look forward to them. Like they're not, they're not
• 36:40
  fun interactions, but at at heart, there's a person here
• 36:46
  who's ensnared and this bully is standing on that person, right?
• 36:52
  And so that brings up something in you and right, it brings up a
• 36:55
  righteous anger. It brings up a sense of duty.
• 36:59
  It brings up a a Christian courage because you're going in
• 37:04
  to in on a rescue mission to try to get this person out and
• 37:08
  you're relying on the cooperation of the person,
• 37:11
  right? You you can hold down the enemy
• 37:14
  for, for for a certain length of time, but it's up to this victim
• 37:18
  now. OK, you've got to get up and you
• 37:19
  got to walk now towards the one whom I serve, because if you
• 37:23
  don't, you already know where you're going to end up.
• 37:26
  And as odd as it is, not everybody undertakes that walk.
• 37:31
  Some, some people they, they, they want to get rid of the
• 37:35
  pain. They want to get rid of the
• 37:37
  prison that they're in when they're in a relationship with
• 37:39
  the devil, but they want to keep his gifts, what he's offered.
• 37:45
  They want to, they want to hold on to that because what's?
• 37:48
  An example of that. Well, a sexual prowess, a
• 37:53
  superior intellect, anything with which one can make a
• 37:56
  covenant with evil, terrible friends, a gift of wealth, for
• 38:03
  example, being lucky often any anything like that.
• 38:09
  Psychic abilities. And the devil has the power to
• 38:12
  give those things? Sure.
• 38:14
  How does the devil give wealth? Because the devil has an access
• 38:21
  to reality and knowledge that we don't have, he can peer into
• 38:25
  situations where he can bring things about.
• 38:30
  And nudge people one way or another.
• 38:32
  Nudge people something, something that's hidden
• 38:35
  somewhere and no one has any, you know, a sum of cash in a
• 38:39
  safe somewhere buried underground and everybody's lost
• 38:43
  sight of it. He can go take it, for example.
• 38:48
  He can give a doctor an ability to be astounding in the practice
• 38:54
  of medicine and by guiding him, by guiding him even in the order
• 39:00
  of nature, attack these cells with this concoction.
• 39:04
  Attack them in this way. Do it this often.
• 39:07
  How do people of goodwill navigate this?
• 39:11
  Because it I mean, in one sense it sounds very scary that maybe
• 39:14
  all throughout even our daily lives, we could run into people
• 39:16
  or situations that are actively being worked on by the devil.
• 39:24
  And and, and they and they are, and they do this, this is this
• 39:29
  is really common, that this is way more common than what, what,
• 39:32
  what I would like it to be an exorcist is most, most of the
• 39:37
  ones that I know are very heavily worked.
• 39:39
  They may not all be full possession cases, but they don't
• 39:42
  have to be. The fact that there is an
• 39:46
  influence that's there where part of your being is under the
• 39:50
  dominion of the evil one, well, now he can manipulate you there.
• 39:54
  So there there's parts of you that are, that are under his
• 39:56
  control. They're not owned by you,
• 39:58
  they're owned by him. Is this more common in today's
• 40:01
  time than it has been in history?
• 40:04
  Or do you think every every decade, every era the the the
• 40:08
  devil is just as active? You know, that's a it's a really
• 40:13
  good question. Some people today say he's more
• 40:16
  active than ever. I I'm not so sure about that.
• 40:21
  I am I'm not one that thinks the present situation is necessarily
• 40:27
  more worse than or worse. I should say the present
• 40:32
  situation is not worse than any of the previous ones, but I
• 40:35
  don't know that it isn't. In addition, I've only lived in
• 40:39
  the generation that I've lived. Is it getting worse now?
• 40:44
  I, I would say that it is in the sense that we are becoming more
• 40:49
  de Christianized. And there's, there's a price to
• 40:53
  pay for that because people are not, they don't have the
• 40:58
  Christian compass, the spiritual compass to guide them in life.
• 41:02
  So they're making very Pagan decisions.
• 41:04
  And that means they get ensnared in the traps that are out there.
• 41:06
  And there are many traps that are set out there.
• 41:10
  And when they fall into a trap, they don't have the Christian
• 41:15
  understanding to know where north-south and east and West
• 41:19
  is. So, so we, we are quickly,
• 41:23
  quickly becoming Pagan again. And, and you know, in the early
• 41:27
  church, one of the great apologetics of Christianity over
• 41:33
  Pagan cultures was the authority that Christian priests had.
• 41:39
  And Christians in general, not just the priests, but the
• 41:42
  authority that Christianity had over the demons, which was
• 41:45
  something so different. Meaning the pagans appreciated
• 41:50
  that because they were being molested, harmed by demons, so
• 41:53
  they knew. At least this priest can help me
• 41:56
  even if I don't want to follow his God.
• 42:00
  It gave credence to the God that he follows, right?
• 42:04
  This is the God who is over all the other gods, over all the
• 42:08
  other demons, over all these other forces that keep us
• 42:12
  terrorized, right? So that there there's a great
• 42:15
  apologetic there, but we're entering into a place again
• 42:20
  where paganism is leading people into entrapments by the devil.
• 42:27
  What are what do you mean by that?
• 42:28
  What are some of the hallmarks of paganism?
• 42:30
  What does it look like today? What does modern paganism look?
• 42:34
  Like, well, it's, it's not unlike old paganism, it's it's
• 42:39
  non Christian living. So a sense of like you become
• 42:42
  the measure of morality. You become the measure of your
• 42:47
  destiny. You, you pick what you desire to
• 42:49
  do with your existence and your relationship with others.
• 42:54
  You know, like Christianity. What did it do?
• 42:56
  Well, we saw the other, any other and every other as having
• 43:04
  the infinite value of God because every soul was created
• 43:08
  in the image of God. So that means something, you
• 43:13
  know that that that now curbs what I may want to do to you or
• 43:18
  to get from you, to take from you it.
• 43:24
  It means now that that I'm going to be accountable for my
• 43:28
  relationships with others, with myself, with my family, with
• 43:34
  even my country. Now it's what do I want?
• 43:40
  Take as long as you don't get caught, you know, so the the
• 43:45
  harm now becomes not the the transcendent I of God, but
• 43:50
  simply human law. You know, human, human, human
• 43:54
  security is your only threat now.
• 43:57
  And so people will do things like if you ask a random person,
• 44:03
  like if you, if you could, if you were assured that you could
• 44:08
  never get caught on a human level, if you stole $1,000,000
• 44:12
  from somebody, would you do it? I mean, walk down the street and
• 44:17
  ask that question. How many people would undertake
• 44:19
  that? I mean, probably more than one.
• 44:24
  Do you think that's maybe the prevailing kind of paganism
• 44:28
  today is greed or taking material possessions that are
• 44:32
  not one's own or do you think many of that more has to do with
• 44:35
  the the sexual? I mean, what would you say are
• 44:37
  kind of the most common that you see?
• 44:40
  It's the desire to become God. It's how we manipulate others.
• 44:44
  What can we do to an embryo to extract what we want from it?
• 44:47
  What can we do from, you know, hey, somebody who's less
• 44:50
  fortunate? Well, we begin to view them as
• 44:52
  animals, right? So given we we start making
• 44:56
  decisions in society over who lives and who died, this person
• 44:59
  is too sick to save. Kill them, right?
• 45:01
  Jump the morphine. But a lot of people, they would
• 45:03
  say they're doing that out of compassion, right?
• 45:06
  That's the the prevailing, I think, argument from the pagans
• 45:09
  in our culture is that they are the compassionate ones.
• 45:12
  Yeah, and I think I, I think it's a false compassion.
• 45:16
  I think it's a cop out because you just don't want to stand
• 45:19
  with somebody with suffering. We can remove their physical
• 45:22
  suffering. We can, we can, we can remove
• 45:24
  their pain. But but it becomes easier.
• 45:28
  It becomes less expensive to keep them alive.
• 45:31
  You can shirk your own responsibilities by just
• 45:34
  increasing their morphine so that the the breathing reflex
• 45:37
  stops. And so death has taken them.
• 45:39
  But actually, you took them. You induced death, right?
• 45:44
  They died because of you. Sure, they were going to die
• 45:46
  anyway because of the illness, but everybody's going to die.
• 45:49
  But we do have something called murder, and there's an instance
• 45:53
  of it. So we are the the movement to
• 45:56
  paganism is a movement to become God.
• 45:59
  There is ever only ever been one sin.
• 46:03
  I can play at being God, and so I will this, this is this is
• 46:08
  what Adam and Eve did. This is how the devil tempted
• 46:11
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  conglomerates that actually are pro abortion that donate money
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  That's every life.com and use the code Lila at checkout for
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  10% off your order. How many exorcisms have you
• 47:20
  done, Father? I don't, I don't keep a count, I
• 47:23
  mean, because there's cases and then there's multiple sessions
• 47:26
  that it takes within the cases. But over the years, a great many
• 47:32
  I've I've had dozens of cases and some, some of them have
• 47:37
  taken many, many sessions. How often do they involve and
• 47:42
  have you sensed sort of themes or patterns in the sorts of sins
• 47:46
  that are involved or is it really any, like you said
• 47:49
  earlier, mortal sin, whether it has to do with sex?
• 47:52
  No, there's a pattern I mean. What are the patterns?
• 47:54
  The most the most common causes for possession are a
• 48:01
  participation in the occult and sexual sin.
• 48:05
  Those would be would be the two, but but the occult 1 is greater
• 48:09
  than than the sexual one. And it's greater because in a
• 48:15
  dabbling in the occult, participating in the occult, you
• 48:18
  are replicating the sin of Lucifer and his fallen angels.
• 48:24
  God has placed a limit on reality, right.
• 48:27
  So, so when you consciously choose to bypass that limit, so
• 48:33
  you go consult a fortune teller, a Ouija board to get information
• 48:38
  about things that you shouldn't know, you have no right to know.
• 48:42
  And, and God has placed a limit on it.
• 48:45
  But you go there, you are bypassing the limits like you
• 48:50
  are raging against God of, of, of you know that that's by
• 48:55
  definition, that's what you're doing.
• 48:57
  You are replicating the rebellion of the fallen angels.
• 49:01
  Even if the person doesn't fully realize that culturally, they
• 49:04
  think this is what I should do, go to a psychic.
• 49:07
  It doesn't matter ever chooses to be possessed by the devil.
• 49:10
  Nobody ever does this. Nobody.
• 49:14
  And yet it occurs. So so you know the the original
• 49:19
  case that brought about the movie The Exorcist, the the
• 49:22
  original case upon which that movie was based, it was actually
• 49:25
  a young boy rather than than a young girl who was possessed.
• 49:28
  It was an aunt that that came over with a Ouija board and got
• 49:33
  this kid to, to play at the Ouija board.
• 49:37
  And guess what? He became possessed out of it.
• 49:39
  Did he have any idea what he was doing?
• 49:40
  No. And I, I had an exact case like
• 49:42
  that. It was a 7 year old.
• 49:44
  And I mean by the time he came to me, by the time his, his
• 49:48
  exorcism, he became one of my exorcism cases.
• 49:52
  He was into his 30s, but it was at 7 years old and and it was
• 49:56
  his, his brother and their friends playing with the Ouija
• 49:59
  board and he participated and now this.
• 50:02
  Kid. He he, he didn't know anything
• 50:04
  and he he had been tormented his whole life.
• 50:07
  Oh heavens yeah. What did?
• 50:08
  What did his torment look like? So.
• 50:12
  So. What occurs?
• 50:13
  So this is one of the cases on on the podcast on it's one of
• 50:17
  the episodes. He that night, after playing
• 50:22
  with the Ouija board, was visited by a figure in his room
• 50:25
  who offered him a deal. I will make you really strong in
• 50:29
  exchange for and then he said a nonsensical word.
• 50:31
  So he requested something and the individual now his name is
• 50:39
  Jeremy. Jeremy couldn't recall today,
• 50:41
  like, you know, 2 1/2 decades later, what that was, what that
• 50:46
  word was. But he said yes.
• 50:49
  And so this figure jumped into the air and jumped inside him.
• 50:52
  And from that moment, he was extraordinarily strong in
• 50:56
  sports, in everything. In everything.
• 50:59
  Like he like physically strong, physically strong.
• 51:02
  Like he, he could beat up kids that were, you know, when he was
• 51:06
  in elementary school, kids that were three years older than him
• 51:08
  and, and multiple ones. He ended up becoming a
• 51:12
  firefighter and and broke every record at the Academy, every
• 51:16
  athletic record, so we had this incredible strength.
• 51:19
  What was the downside? The downside?
• 51:21
  Is you. Know today's A.
• 51:24
  Friday afternoon, it's 4. 30 Pacific Time and all of a sudden
• 51:29
  it's now the Monday after. He has no idea where he's been
• 51:33
  for the three days that have that have gone past.
• 51:37
  He's on the other side of town. He has no shirt on, no shoes,
• 51:40
  and his knuckles are bloody and he has an extra $3500 in his
• 51:45
  pocket. He has no idea where he got it.
• 51:48
  So all of that. Time is unaccounted for and.
• 51:51
  Every action within it is unaccounted for.
• 51:54
  How many people do you think in our prisons right now?
• 51:56
  We're committing evil when they were possessed.
• 51:59
  I have no idea, but I'll tell you one thing I used to do.
• 52:01
  A lot of prison ministry in my early priesthood and I and I
• 52:05
  remember going at one time into a death row and I never, even in
• 52:12
  all the exorcism cases that I've, I've never felt as much
• 52:15
  evil as I did inside that death row.
• 52:17
  And the sounds that were being made in that place.
• 52:22
  There was a collection of demons like I've never encountered in
• 52:25
  one place. Do you think that's because of
• 52:28
  the act of execution? Or because of the evil
• 52:31
  accompanying the executed. The evil present in in those who
• 52:36
  in the inmates. That are in the prison who had
• 52:40
  committed some of the. Most heinous crimes.
• 52:43
  Consciously or unconsciously? Yes, when you're.
• 52:48
  We're going a bit on a tangent here, but.
• 52:49
  It's so interesting if you are, you've committed a heinous
• 52:52
  crime, you plead insanity and you can somehow prove insanity.
• 52:56
  You truly didn't remember when you committed this crime and
• 53:00
  somehow it, but it wasn't insanity, medically speaking.
• 53:03
  It was the demonic. Have you come run into this?
• 53:07
  Not legally, not Not in a. Legal case in which I was
• 53:11
  consulted. I I haven't I haven't been
• 53:14
  consulted in any legal case. But can the devil make someone
• 53:18
  truly do something evil? For sure I did.
• 53:22
  Know of a case like this where an individual and this is when
• 53:28
  in those years where I was doing a lot of prison ministry.
• 53:31
  He he talked to me about why he was in prison.
• 53:34
  He was in prison for multiple murders.
• 53:36
  And if I recall it was three of them.
• 53:38
  And he did them in an afternoon in a home.
• 53:42
  And he had been a Satanist. So he had decided, OK, I'm going
• 53:46
  to start worshiping the devil. And he was doing his version of
• 53:51
  a black mass. And then all of a sudden he
• 53:54
  wakes up in somebody's home. There's three dead bodies around
• 53:58
  him. And he said to me, it had to be
• 54:01
  me because there was no one else around.
• 54:04
  And then all of a sudden, coming in, turning into the driveway of
• 54:08
  the house, he could see from the front window was a was a police
• 54:11
  cruiser. And this happened.
• 54:15
  In the middle of the afternoon. And he said, I've read all of
• 54:19
  the reports, I've read all of them.
• 54:21
  They all say the same time. It was in the middle of the day
• 54:24
  and it had to be in the middle of the day because not everybody
• 54:29
  could be wrong. And there couldn't be this
• 54:30
  conspiracy of, of of them making up a false time, a false time of
• 54:37
  the day where this occurred. But when I saw that car turn
• 54:41
  into the driveway, it had its daytime running lights on like
• 54:45
  that, the mild form of the headlights, but the day was
• 54:48
  pitch black. So what it looked like was to It
• 54:53
  looked like it was in the middle of the night and this cop car
• 54:55
  pulls into the driveway. In other words, this man is
• 54:58
  seeing reality from the eyes of the demons because for them
• 55:02
  everything is dark. So although it was in the middle
• 55:06
  of the. Day he didn't have access.
• 55:07
  To what we have access to and seeing, seeing the daylight the
• 55:11
  way we see it. He saw a night.
• 55:15
  You were speaking with this man. Did he?
• 55:17
  Ever find deliverance? Did he ever?
• 55:19
  Find. He certainly, he certainly was.
• 55:22
  Repentant like he he, well, I don't know where he is now like
• 55:26
  he was there for life, three life sentences, so he will never
• 55:29
  see the light of day. Repentant for the murderers and.
• 55:33
  Also for being a Satanist or just for the murders?
• 55:35
  Yeah, because he was coming and meeting me.
• 55:37
  OK. I mean, he was seeking out.
• 55:40
  To further. His relationship with God so he
• 55:42
  was repentant of the Satanism that.
• 55:44
  Opened the door to these and 2020 years of prison had done.
• 55:48
  Its thing too right? Wow, it it grinds you pretty
• 55:51
  good. Well then.
• 55:52
  What about someone though who is?
• 55:54
  Possessed not by the fault of their own.
• 55:57
  This man chose to be a Satanist and then all of a sudden he's
• 56:00
  murdering people. What about the case of a child
• 56:03
  who is oppressed or possessed? Because of someone.
• 56:06
  Else's action or an innocent person who's just attacked by
• 56:09
  Satan because of someone else's evil.
• 56:11
  And then we say, OK, it's not fair.
• 56:13
  But OK, let me tell you about a different case than I met in
• 56:16
  prison. So I met this man.
• 56:18
  He was 38 years old and I this was in my first year of the
• 56:25
  priesthood. Maybe I was a Deacon at the
• 56:28
  time. This was either 2008 or 2009.
• 56:32
  At that time he was 38 years old and he's in there for life for
• 56:39
  multiple rapes and murders. He.
• 56:44
  Was the son. Of a prostitute and what he
• 56:49
  remembers growing up is constantly being hungry
• 56:52
  constantly and never being fed. And he had a little brother and
• 56:56
  his little brother was hungry. And so he remembers John's
• 57:00
  walking by. He would be on the landing of
• 57:02
  the apartment building outside the apartment.
• 57:05
  And they would, they would walk by to go visit his mother.
• 57:07
  And a lot of them would, would kick them, beat them.
• 57:11
  And so one day, in a fit of hunger, he goes and he tries the
• 57:16
  doors of the apartments and he manages to get in when it was
• 57:19
  unlocked and there was food inside.
• 57:22
  And so he took food for himself and his brother.
• 57:25
  And so from that moment he, he, he realized, no one is ever
• 57:30
  going to give me anything. If I want anything I have to
• 57:33
  take it So so. There is a paganism.
• 57:38
  There's an example of that, but he was taught it by the sin of
• 57:41
  his mother. And the sin of these men, and
• 57:43
  the circumstances of life. Heartbreaking and the the.
• 57:47
  Circumstances of living. In a broken world.
• 57:50
  And so then when he became sexually mature, well, if I want
• 57:54
  something, I just have to take it.
• 57:57
  And there you have it. And so the safest place for him
• 58:01
  in the world, for his own sake and for other, is to be in
• 58:03
  prison. So he was 18, a, pardon me, he
• 58:07
  was 16. He was 16 when he was arrested
• 58:11
  and charged. And he was charged as an adult.
• 58:14
  So he was now 38. So he's been in prison 22 years.
• 58:19
  Most of his life is our he's only 38 years old.
• 58:21
  Most of his life has already been spent in prison, and yet
• 58:24
  that's the place where he needs to be.
• 58:26
  But in that story, there wasn't. A possession there was just, but
• 58:30
  it's not fair. It's not fair.
• 58:32
  But this is the point. This is an.
• 58:34
  Analogy. Right.
• 58:36
  So, so yes, it's not fair in the spiritual realm where we inherit
• 58:41
  these dysfunctional conditions from our family, from our
• 58:44
  ancestry. Well, neither it is, neither is
• 58:47
  it in the in the in the physical realm, but yet it happens,
• 58:51
  right? So, So what you can say about 1
• 58:53
  you can say about the other. Like there's the same examples
• 58:56
  of the there's examples of the same kind of dysfunction
• 59:00
  happening in each realm. What did you observe?
• 59:03
  God's mercy. Look to look like for him as he
• 59:06
  was in that prison at you know what I I really enjoyed
• 59:09
  speaking. With him there was a maturity
• 59:11
  that was there. Prison had done its thing right.
• 59:15
  He had matured there. He had made some.
• 59:19
  He became an adult in there. He wasn't an adult when he went
• 59:22
  inside. He had been reached out to by
• 59:26
  clergy and he had embraced an identity at some level with
• 59:31
  Christ. He was open to it and he could
• 59:34
  see that this is different than anything else.
• 59:37
  And, and in many prisons, a religious program is the only
• 59:42
  kind of program that you have, especially in the South, you
• 59:47
  have churches that are funding the ministry happening, doing
• 59:53
  retreats within prisons. I, I used to lead a bunch of
• 59:57
  them taking your time out and, and going and, and giving you
• 1:00:02
  know, they'll allow you to bring in a bag of candy potentially if
• 1:00:05
  especially if you form a relationship with the warden.
• 1:00:08
  Of course they search everything, but but you have
• 1:00:10
  candy. This is the only nice thing, the
• 1:00:13
  only treat that they're going to get.
• 1:00:16
  And you know, when I would go, I would eat with them.
• 1:00:19
  So I would eat the prison food in the cafeteria with them.
• 1:00:24
  And there was nothing that I thought was nothing was
• 1:00:30
  disgusting, nothing was horrible, but it was very simple
• 1:00:35
  and you didn't get tons of it right.
• 1:00:37
  So you, you had to make do with that.
• 1:00:42
  So along, you know, somebody comes in and they've got a candy
• 1:00:45
  bar. Well, this is the only, this is
• 1:00:47
  the only sugar high or chocolate high that you're going to get
• 1:00:50
  maybe this month. So you're, you're willing to do
• 1:00:54
  something for that, maybe even sit down and listen to a sermon
• 1:00:58
  for that, listen to a, a teaching.
• 1:01:00
  But in the midst of that, God, God manages to get through.
• 1:01:04
  Someone might hear a story like the one you just shared.
• 1:01:06
  And I know I think about Margaret Sanger, the founder of
• 1:01:08
  Planned Parenthood. And one of her motivations that
• 1:01:11
  she wrote about was she saw what she considered such a extreme
• 1:01:15
  poverty and suffering that she thought we it's better to not
• 1:01:18
  exist. It's better that you don't have
• 1:01:20
  children at all. And then later on abort the
• 1:01:22
  child if there is a child. And again, done in the name of
• 1:01:25
  compassion to stop any of these tragic choices in life to be
• 1:01:30
  made the suffering that is subsequent to stop it all from
• 1:01:33
  happening. Just end the life before it's
• 1:01:34
  even begun. What would you say to that?
• 1:01:36
  That is the desire to be God, that that is a.
• 1:01:39
  Replicating the sin of, of, of the fallen angels and, and there
• 1:01:43
  are consequences for that. All right.
• 1:01:46
  So we have to have the humility to be humans and to accept the
• 1:01:52
  fact that we are not God and we work towards making the world a
• 1:01:58
  better place by incarnating Christ and, and the love that he
• 1:02:02
  brought that is new, that has brought about more good than
• 1:02:06
  anything on a human level. I mean, it is, it is brought
• 1:02:10
  about. It has convinced the most
• 1:02:12
  hardened hearts when they saw an act of love, a selfless act of
• 1:02:16
  love. And people have changed.
• 1:02:19
  Cultures have changed, right? Look at look at Mexico.
• 1:02:22
  Look at the Aztecs, you know within after shortly after the
• 1:02:26
  apparition of Our Lady of Guadalupe in Mexico, The the the
• 1:02:31
  Mass. Killing.
• 1:02:33
  Stopped eight years later. It didn't exist any longer.
• 1:02:36
  What mass killing. So in when the Aztecs would
• 1:02:40
  dedicate a temple or or and and and regularly, periodically they
• 1:02:44
  would have the slaughter of of people of humans in order to to
• 1:02:49
  placate, to please the gods, to avert their anger.
• 1:02:52
  Especially children, right? Especially children.
• 1:02:54
  But you have. You you have in in.
• 1:02:57
  So there was 1/4 day period. There were so many thousands
• 1:03:00
  that it worked out to four per minute were being killed, were
• 1:03:04
  being beheaded and their and their their heads were being
• 1:03:07
  rolled down the side of the temple.
• 1:03:09
  I mean, this is this is the way of life.
• 1:03:15
  And all of a sudden, one apparition comes, and that act
• 1:03:18
  of love is so convincing that eight years later, there's no
• 1:03:24
  sacrifice anymore. It's done.
• 1:03:26
  Is is abortion kind of our human sacrifice?
• 1:03:29
  Today, how would you? That's what it is today.
• 1:03:31
  Now I I believe it will. End it's going to end we we've
• 1:03:35
  seen great strides even in in our lifetime and we we see this
• 1:03:40
  there's. There.
• 1:03:42
  There's a certain young people that have become critical enough
• 1:03:50
  to begin questioning the, the, the pass that the culture gives
• 1:03:56
  abortion to, to the the notion of abortion, of eliminating a
• 1:04:00
  problem through the killing. They, there's a movement within
• 1:04:05
  young people that is a serious movement of pro-life towards
• 1:04:10
  pro-life, and it's come out of nowhere.
• 1:04:12
  It's come out of nowhere in the sense that nobody's taught them
• 1:04:15
  this. They didn't get it from their
• 1:04:16
  parents nor from their friends. They sure as heck didn't get it
• 1:04:19
  from the culture. And yet within them there's this
• 1:04:23
  conviction that all life is sacred and that human life, that
• 1:04:27
  that the smallest person, the most insignificant person is
• 1:04:32
  worth protecting. And, and I mean, how do we chalk
• 1:04:36
  this up? This, this is, this is God.
• 1:04:39
  God is raising up something. And this is at the end of the
• 1:04:42
  day, no matter how much evil you see, God is an active player in
• 1:04:46
  the world. He's very active.
• 1:04:48
  He is God and he, and he never relinquishes his, his Godhead.
• 1:04:54
  And he's operative. And, and I see it and I think
• 1:04:57
  we, we all can see it if we choose to look, if we just
• 1:05:01
  observe what is happening. There's a lot of ugliness, but
• 1:05:05
  there's a tremendous amount of good that is coming forward.
• 1:05:09
  Father Martins, I want to respect your.
• 1:05:11
  Time I know we. Got an hour from you and we've
• 1:05:14
  already a little bit past it just to conclude our time
• 1:05:16
  together. Any final words for folks
• 1:05:18
  listening about how they can live more closely?
• 1:05:23
  In line with God's. Will and be powerful with God
• 1:05:27
  against the attacks of the devil sure yeah take take seriously
• 1:05:31
  the life of the. Sacraments live the sacraments.
• 1:05:33
  Attend church on Sunday. Confess your sins.
• 1:05:37
  Be free of sin. If, if your friends are a
• 1:05:40
  problem, get rid of them. Get yourself good people in your
• 1:05:43
  life. Get rid of the stuff that brings
• 1:05:45
  you down. Live a good life, pursue God and
• 1:05:49
  the devil will flee. And you know, I think the
• 1:05:53
  questions you've asked her, they're good ones, especially
• 1:05:56
  with regard to the exorcism stuff.
• 1:05:59
  I do have a podcast, The Exorcist Files, that goes
• 1:06:02
  through cases, actual cases that I had and where I the the the.
• 1:06:09
  The. Cases are re enacted and for the
• 1:06:12
  purposes of spelling out what exactly occurred in them.
• 1:06:17
  So how was evil defeated here? What was God doing?
• 1:06:20
  What was Christ doing? What did the devil want and how
• 1:06:24
  did God prevent him from bringing that about?
• 1:06:26
  So that's why I produced it, is to give people a knowledge of
• 1:06:31
  God and frankly, to use the devil as the 5th evangelist
• 1:06:34
  because there's a way in which the devil is unwittingly and
• 1:06:40
  certainly to his own detriment, but chagrin as well.
• 1:06:46
  He is in one sense, you could say, the greatest proclaimer of
• 1:06:51
  Jesus Christ in his victory. Amen.
• 1:06:54
  Thank you so much, Father Martins.
• 1:06:55
  For joining the podcast, absolutely my pleasure.
• 1:07:00
  Thanks so much for listening. To this episode of the Lila
• 1:07:02
  Rose. Podcast.
• 1:07:03
  I thought it was fascinating. Getting to talk to Father
• 1:07:06
  Martins and there are so many takeaways.
• 1:07:09
  I hope you enjoyed the conversation too.
• 1:07:11
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• 1:07:13
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• 1:07:17
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