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Matthew Chapter 8 Q&A: Bible Study by Atheists · Sacrilegious Discourse - Bible Study for Atheists

0:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Why do you know what, what are doing today?
0:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, best laid plans and all, right?
0:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, so yeah, we, uh, we did eight, nine and ten, uh, the Matthew and then we're doing a Q&A.
0:16
[SPEAKER_01]: We're doing Q&A Saturday, but only on chapter eight.
0:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, right.
0:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it's a lot.
0:23
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a lot.
0:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Because we've undershot how much how many questions we had.
0:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Which look, here's the thing.
0:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's the thing.
0:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't mind doing these Q&As.
0:34
[SPEAKER_01]: into partners for the new testament because i'm trying to answer a lot of questions and it's taking something that already had questions and then adding to it and telling lies about the lies so i just don't mind it okay no i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i
0:55
[SPEAKER_00]: If we're going to do this, we might as well be thorough, you know, let's, let's be as thorough as we can.
1:02
[SPEAKER_01]: So this episode, we're just doing the Q&A over chapter eight, and then the next episode will be part two of the Q&A, which will be chapters nine and ten.
1:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I'll be able to fit nine and ten into one episode because a lot of chapter nine is just a continuation.
1:20
[SPEAKER_01]: It's different stories, but it's a continuation on the themes that I'll be covering in chapter eight.
1:25
[SPEAKER_01]: So I won't have to mention that twice.
1:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Got it.
1:29
[SPEAKER_01]: If that makes sense.
1:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And then maybe maybe sometime this century will finish the New Testament.
1:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I don't know, it's a possibility.
1:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Monday or Tuesday, we'll start chapter 11, I guess.
1:40
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll see.
1:41
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I know.
1:41
[SPEAKER_00]: I just, with us doing Q&A's all the time, it's, which is great.
1:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I enjoy them, like it does help.
1:49
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just, you like you dread them going in.
1:51
[SPEAKER_01]: You're like, really?
1:52
[SPEAKER_01]: But every time we do them, you're like, oh, that was, that was pretty good.
1:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I learned some stuff, don't get material.
2:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's fine.
2:01
[SPEAKER_01]: It's fine.
2:01
[SPEAKER_01]: This is fine.
2:02
[SPEAKER_00]: It's fine.
2:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you ready to do this?
2:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I sure stuck in.
2:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Alright, let's do it.
2:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, okay.
2:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Alright, we are hopping into Matthew chapter eight, nine and ten, Q and A that's only over chapter eight.
2:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, so just eight.
2:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Just eight.
2:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, only eight.
2:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Or eight, nine and ten, part one.
2:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is just eight.
2:29
[SPEAKER_01]: However, you want to say it, a little Matty.
2:32
[SPEAKER_01]: So a lot of this chapter here in 79.
2:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Why?
2:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember that part.
2:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Wait, wait, wait, six was scared.
2:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, there's a roar.
2:44
[SPEAKER_00]: There's more to it.
2:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I was scared of seven because seven eight nine.
2:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're so stupid.
2:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry.
2:53
[SPEAKER_01]: got it wrong.
2:54
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, listen, listen.
2:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not listening.
2:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
2:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So a lot of chapter eight and actually chapter nine two is just theological propaganda in the ancient sense.
3:04
[SPEAKER_00]: No, wait, not that totally.
3:06
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it's totally.
3:07
[SPEAKER_01]: There's stories arranged to make a claim about who Jesus is.
3:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we knew that going through it.
3:15
[SPEAKER_00]: We were literally reading the Bible way and this is propaganda, this is bullshit, this is, they're just making claims.
3:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, yeah.
3:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that was, it was obvious just reading the fucking book.
3:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
3:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's really cool is that when we get to, wait, this is Matthew, when we get to Mark, they both start with M. So I have to think real hard about which one is which.
3:33
[SPEAKER_01]: But this is Matthew.
3:34
[SPEAKER_01]: But when we get to Mark, which,
3:37
[SPEAKER_01]: apparently came before Matthew and that Matthew borrows from.
3:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
3:41
[SPEAKER_01]: So when we get to mark, he tells a lot of the same stories apparently, but it takes a longer time to do it and Matthew just like speedruns it.
3:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Got it.
3:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, no, let me put this in a better order for you.
3:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, he's not about the accuracy of what happened.
4:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean,
4:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's the right, that's it was a heavy stretch in there right yeah um he's just trying to like put it out and and like he he's the problem again to me Okay, yeah
4:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, a first century Jewish audience would notice that Jesus interacts with a series of people who are in different ways, outsiders.
4:21
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know if we caught this the first time going through chapter 8, but just in case we didn't, it's a story about a leper who is richly unclean, a Roman centurion who
4:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Demons who are social outcasts.
4:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, obviously, because there's the demons which came in nowhere.
4:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
4:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
4:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And Gentiles in pig raising territory.
4:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, these are all outsiders that Jesus is helping and touching and interacting with.
5:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I have to say this before I lose it and I should have said it earlier when we were talking about it because now it's a lot lost some of his punch But did you know do you know when the Bible is most accurate when it's thrown at close range when it's throwing at what when it's throwing at close range What when you throw at a close range I don't understand if you throw the Bible out of Target is most accurate when you go on
5:26
[SPEAKER_01]: look, I'm too autistic for that job.
5:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, trying to get like what are you not getting.
5:32
[SPEAKER_00]: It's, it's, it's, that's, I'm trying to get the deeper meaning of the question.
5:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm on dad joke mode tonight.
5:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god, I could tell.
5:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, sorry.
5:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Stop.
5:41
[SPEAKER_01]: You need a fucking stop.
5:43
[SPEAKER_01]: So this chapter in the next one, which again, remember I said in the intro that chapters eight and nine are very much on theme with each other, okay?
5:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Although the stories differ, they're the same theme.
5:55
[SPEAKER_01]: So these two chapters repeatedly ask who gets access to God's kingdom and Matthew's answer to that question is kind of surprising in that it's not necessarily
6:10
[SPEAKER_01]: So the chapter starts out with great multitudes following Jesus.
6:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is when he heals a leper.
6:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, the leper makes his request.
6:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And then Jesus touches the leper and the lepers cleansed.
6:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Awesome.
6:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And Jesus commands the healed man to give testimony of his healing to the priest only.
6:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
6:29
[SPEAKER_01]: We were like, why?
6:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Why?
6:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I thought he said, tell no one.
6:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
6:34
[SPEAKER_01]: But he said, but only the priest, tell the priest.
6:36
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
6:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, here's versus three and four.
6:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man.
6:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm willing, he said.
6:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Jesus said, be clean.
6:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Immediately, dude was cleaned up his leprosy.
6:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
6:47
[SPEAKER_01]: then Jesus said to him see that you don't tell anyone but go show yourself to the priest and offer the gift Moses commanded as a testimony to them so we were like hold on what's leprosy again now in the new testament and why not tell anyone and why tell the priest and what's the gift that Moses commanded and also it's written in the Bible this thing that he's not supposed to tell anybody yeah and they told it to everybody
7:16
[SPEAKER_01]: So, leprosy in the Bible was not necessarily modern leprosy.
7:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, we covered this, which today is actually called Hanson's disease.
7:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I forgot about that.
7:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
7:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, leprosy back in the Bible covered a broad category of visible skin disorders and ritual impurity conditions.
7:36
[SPEAKER_01]: So like eczema psoriasis, fungal infections, various rashes.
7:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
7:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Any kind of skin disorders?
7:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Skin was fucked up.
7:43
[SPEAKER_00]: You have leprosy, okay.
7:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you acted a fool, you were demon possessed.
7:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm.
7:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Boom.
7:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Done.
7:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Or couldn't talk.
7:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
7:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
7:53
[SPEAKER_01]: the issue was often ritual impurity, not contagious disease.
7:59
[SPEAKER_01]: So Matthew specifically says that the Jesus touched him.
8:04
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a big deal.
8:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
8:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Has for a Jewish audience, that's super shocking because impurity was generally thought to spread from the bad dirty person to the clean person.
8:18
[SPEAKER_01]: They had like a, I don't know if we covered this in the old testament, a little bit how they had this badness will spread to goodness thing.
8:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
8:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And make it gritty.
8:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I do.
8:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I do kind of remember that actually.
8:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it was like a really big deal.
8:33
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why we don't touch the dead.
8:34
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why we don't touch impure things.
8:35
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why we clean ourselves all the time.
8:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, go through all of these rituals, right?
8:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
8:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So when Jesus touches the dirty whatever.
8:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
8:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And all of these stories, he touches them.
8:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's a big fucking deal.
8:48
[SPEAKER_01]: That's backwards, because rather than him becoming infected with badness, the bad is becoming infected with goodness.
8:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a backwards, backwards flow of energy.
9:01
[SPEAKER_00]: That's because I got energy.
9:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so this whole thing reverses the expected flow.
9:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Got it.
9:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
9:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
9:08
[SPEAKER_01]: All of these stories, really.
9:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Instead of unclinliness, contaminating Jesus, Jesus is holiness, contaminates aka purifies the unclean person.
9:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
9:19
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a clever theological statement hidden inside, just a plain little story, which to us is not all that clever, although we missed it, I will say.
9:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
9:30
[SPEAKER_01]: But to them, this would have been reveled fucking Lucienary.
9:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Got it.
9:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Like they would have got the big deal of it.
9:35
[SPEAKER_00]: What their whole teaching was to banish the people with leprosy that were unclean and that was the whole field.
9:41
[SPEAKER_01]: But it wasn't, it wasn't just get this groting us away for me.
9:45
[SPEAKER_01]: It was, get the groting us away for me.
9:48
[SPEAKER_01]: because it might infect me.
9:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, right.
9:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, oh, yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
10:14
[SPEAKER_00]: We're looking at this from a modern medicine perspective or like whatever.
10:18
[SPEAKER_01]: What's the big fucking deers?
10:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
10:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, it's fine.
10:22
[SPEAKER_01]: You can touch people, whatever.
10:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
10:24
[SPEAKER_01]: So all of this was done for a testimony to the priesthood.
10:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
10:30
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why he was like, don't tell anybody and don't get to the don't tell anybody in a minute.
10:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
10:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
10:34
[SPEAKER_01]: But specifically, why was he like go ahead and tell the priest though?
10:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
10:40
[SPEAKER_01]: because it was a testimony specifically to the priesthood to prove that this leper who was doubtless well-known in the land as being a leper because they were at the time shunned.
10:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So he would have been well-known.
10:56
[SPEAKER_01]: He'd been thoroughly cleansed.
10:58
[SPEAKER_01]: So in this private way,
11:01
[SPEAKER_01]: sending him to the priest, it would give full proof to the priesthood that Jesus was the true Messiah.
11:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Because only the priests, or only the priests were supposed to be able to do this, but Jesus had done it.
11:14
[SPEAKER_01]: The Jewish rabbis would know that curing the lepers was a characteristic described in the Old Testament as the Messiah.
11:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so this is proving more profit back to us Jesus.
11:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes, and I did not get that so like I was like why don't tell me buddy, but then tell the priest like Sure, so that makes it make a little more sense of what Matthew is trying to say here.
11:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
11:41
[SPEAKER_01]: So that gets to the question, but then why does Jesus keep saying don't tell anyone.
11:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, like
11:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought he kind of covered that one with the basically you don't want to prop yourself up with the good deeds that you're doing.
11:56
[SPEAKER_01]: That's part of it, but that's not the whole story.
11:59
[SPEAKER_01]: This is one of the most famous weird features of the Gospels, all of them.
12:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
12:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And scholars often call it the Messianic Secret.
12:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
12:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Which I was like, oh, okay.
12:12
[SPEAKER_01]: So we had a good question there.
12:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Some famously argued that the secrecy theme was later on added to explain an awkward problem.
12:22
[SPEAKER_01]: If Jesus was really the Messiah, why didn't more people recognize him during his lifetime?
12:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Great question.
12:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
12:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, one that I had in the middle of the episode.
12:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, exactly.
12:34
[SPEAKER_00]: So what I'm hearing is that the secrecy thing is just bullshit.
12:39
[SPEAKER_00]: to explain why I do about them.
12:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
12:43
[SPEAKER_01]: If he's walking around healing people, will he nearly left him right?
12:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
12:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And some people know him on say, and join his touchy gang.
12:51
[SPEAKER_00]: According to the story.
12:52
[SPEAKER_01]: According to the story.
12:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
12:54
[SPEAKER_01]: But at the same time, Jesus is like, shhh, don't tell anybody.
12:58
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, because apparently nobody actually knew right exactly.
13:02
[SPEAKER_01]: So other possible explanations are crowd control and political danger if words spread too fast crowds might become unmanageable because everybody wants to be healed right they sure it I mean we've seen some of that where everybody's like chasing after them.
13:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you mean what about me can I be healed too?
13:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, according to the story, right, Roman authorities might see him as a rebel king to soon.
13:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
13:31
[SPEAKER_01]: If the word got out to soon, so he was trying to keep this someone on the deal.
13:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And we will see why that's problematic later on, I'm going to get to that by the end of this chapter.
13:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
13:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And toward that end with Roman authorities, seeing him as a rebel king, local elites could
13:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So like, all anybody in the position of power from the lowest to the highest king position would have been threatened by this right right and we again, we'll see that he actually does challenge them later, which we missed okay, all right.
14:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's not forget, though, that the word Messiah has political implications here.
14:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
14:25
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not just like, yeah, a savior's going to come.
14:27
[SPEAKER_01]: He's not a savior.
14:28
[SPEAKER_01]: You're lying.
14:29
[SPEAKER_01]: It's also like super political, not just magical.
14:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Rome was crucifying people at this time for sedition.
14:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Had Jesus at this early period fully manifested himself as the Messiah, the people in all likelihood would have gone ahead and proclaimed him king.
14:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And this would have excited the hatred of the Jewish rulers and the jealousy of the Roman government and his further pre-chains and miracles would have been impeded.
14:58
[SPEAKER_01]: So keep that in mind.
15:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Also toward what you were saying, Jesus wanted the message not the spectacle, so the gospels often portray him as frustrated when people chase miracles, but missed the ethical and spiritual teaching.
15:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're like, heal me, heal me, and he's like, right, but it's not about the healing.
15:22
[SPEAKER_01]: It's about, I'm trying to save you.
15:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, right now God, I'm bringing God's word and God's message.
15:30
[SPEAKER_00]: But I already feel like that message is kind of...
15:32
[SPEAKER_01]: It's already moved.
15:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's already muddled, because like, there...
15:36
[SPEAKER_00]: the people that they've been showing come to him because he's been healing people.
15:40
[SPEAKER_01]: But the first thing that he says to them is you are forgiven and do you believe in me?
15:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
15:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that.
15:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
15:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
15:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So he is very much trying to get them to understand the spiritual message, not just the and now you can walk to.
15:59
[SPEAKER_00]: But again, we're taking the word of
16:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Jesus was dead.
16:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
16:05
[SPEAKER_00]: No tool.
16:06
[SPEAKER_00]: That these things happen.
16:07
[SPEAKER_01]: These things are, oh yeah, these guys definitely root this.
16:10
[SPEAKER_01]: That's probably getting that.
16:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
16:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what I was getting.
16:13
[SPEAKER_00]: It's still very much stuffing the story of Jesus in here the way they want to stuff it in here.
16:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
16:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
16:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just trying to explain what this stuff would have meant that audience had it been written this way at that time.
16:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Another thing is that it's a literary and theological device.
16:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Many scholars think that the gospel writers intentionally emphasize secrecy because it created dramatic irony because readers at the time know who Jesus is, but the characters in the story kind of don't.
16:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so, you know, as people are like reading these scrolls or whatever, the readers are like, they don't know as Jesus, but we do.
17:01
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're like excited and like, I don't know, whatever.
17:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I got it.
17:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I got it.
17:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I got it.
17:07
[SPEAKER_01]: So Jesus ordered him to show himself to the priest, to conform with the purification offerings and Jewish law him being the.
17:16
[SPEAKER_01]: the Leopard guy.
17:18
[SPEAKER_01]: He ordered him to show himself to the priest to conform with the purification offerings in Jewish law as stated in Leviticus chapter 14.
17:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
17:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Sacrifices were absolutely still happening then.
17:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Hi.
17:31
[SPEAKER_01]: That was a question.
17:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
17:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
17:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
17:34
[SPEAKER_01]: The second temple was still operating in Jesus' lifetime and animal sacrifice remained central to Judaism until the Romans destroyed the temple in 70 CE.
17:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Interesting.
17:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Typical offerings could include birds, lambs, oil and grain depending on wealth and circumstance.
17:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
17:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, that was happening.
17:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, which Jesus was like, go talk to the priests and do what you're supposed to do.
18:00
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's that's part of what
18:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Like my question was that because nowadays we'll be like, well, we don't have to sacrifice things because Jesus died for our sins.
18:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Jesus is the sacrifice.
18:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
18:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Jesus, the sacrifice.
18:13
[SPEAKER_00]: But they were sacrificing while he was alive and a lot of the things that he's saying, like the absolving like Jesus is absolving them.
18:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Great.
18:22
[SPEAKER_00]: as a live person right not before he not as he's not he doesn't have to die to do it apparently.
18:29
[SPEAKER_00]: So where is the set like why does the sacrificing end at his death as opposed like I guess that's that sacrifice?
18:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that's the ultimate sacrifice.
18:40
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
18:41
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess I guess I can allow that.
18:43
[SPEAKER_01]: There's the overlap time period during which there is still animal sacrifice happening Yeah, while Jesus is spreading the word, but then once Jesus dies, he's no longer spreading the word, but
18:56
[SPEAKER_01]: The word has been given and the sacrifice happened.
18:59
[SPEAKER_01]: The sacrifice happened, so no more sacrifice is necessary.
19:02
[SPEAKER_00]: That makes a little sense.
19:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, in so far, right, right.
19:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, like, if you were doing world building in a story that you're writing, this would be okay.
19:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I would allow it.
19:15
[SPEAKER_01]: There's like, okay, those laws hold.
19:18
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what?
19:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you have to have
19:20
[SPEAKER_01]: everything has to make sense and you have to have rules that hold that holds.
19:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I will allow it.
19:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
19:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Your story is good so far.
19:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Your world building is okay.
19:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
19:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
19:30
[SPEAKER_01]: So Jesus heals a centurion servant.
19:32
[SPEAKER_01]: The story is loaded with social symbolism.
19:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
19:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
19:37
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
19:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Jesus gets approached by this Roman Centurion, right?
19:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
19:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And the Centurion as a Roman military officer was a Gentile, a non-Jew.
19:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
19:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is a big fucking deal.
19:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Which I thought Jesus said don't go to them.
19:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't like, don't help them, don't do, don't talk.
19:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever, he said stay at something about the Gentiles.
19:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought.
19:58
[SPEAKER_00]: or no, it was the Pharisees and the never mind.
20:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the Pharisees were like, stay away from them.
20:03
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
20:04
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's why it's a big deal that this Gentile is coming to Jesus.
20:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's a dude that's representing the occupying empire.
20:14
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is a form of literary irony to indicate that the outsider gets it better than many of the insiders.
20:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
20:23
[SPEAKER_01]: because he's part of the occupying force and he's yet a believer.
20:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
20:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And those who are like Jewish surrounding Jesus,
20:34
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't see him as the savior, right?
20:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So the centurion's understanding of Jesus' spiritual authority is what happens next.
20:44
[SPEAKER_01]: So when the soldier talks about soldiers obeying him, we had a question about like, who fucking cares?
20:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you're good boss and your soldiers obey you?
20:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
20:53
[SPEAKER_01]: What?
20:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't get it.
20:55
[SPEAKER_01]: But what he's basically saying he was making an analogy.
20:58
[SPEAKER_01]: He's saying, you command diseases the way I command troops.
21:03
[SPEAKER_01]: no rituals, no physical touch, and no proximity are required just straight up command power.
21:10
[SPEAKER_01]: You say it, the word gets done.
21:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I guess, same as you.
21:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Same as you.
21:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Same as you.
21:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
21:15
[SPEAKER_01]: So the centering states, he doesn't want Jesus in his house, and we were like, oh, rude.
21:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but we thought, well, maybe, um, it would have got both of them in trouble.
21:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
21:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's kind of it.
21:28
[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't feel worthy on the one hand.
21:31
[SPEAKER_01]: It says that he's like, um, you know, I, I'm not worthy of you making that trip and coming into my home is not necessary.
21:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
21:41
[SPEAKER_01]: But more likely.
21:43
[SPEAKER_01]: then what he says is probably due to Jewish purity concerns.
21:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Many Jews avoided entering Gentile homes.
21:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So the centurion was probably trying not to put Jesus in an awkward situation.
21:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Because Jesus did offer like, do you mean, do you want me to come over to hear your
22:04
[SPEAKER_01]: whoever, oh, you're servant, you're service.
22:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, whatever.
22:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
22:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And dude was like, no, no, that's not necessary.
22:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I know you can do it from afar, because you have command power the same way I do.
22:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe in it.
22:18
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, okay.
22:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I, I, I, I find it.
22:21
[SPEAKER_00]: quite amazing that he's able to heal somebody from afar.
22:27
[SPEAKER_00]: That he's never met.
22:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
22:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, that's not how that happened.
22:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's some strange idea.
22:32
[SPEAKER_00]: It didn't happen just clear, but like, you know, that's the why why.
22:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Why.
22:37
[SPEAKER_00]: That, it just feels very stretching the so-called boundaries of what could have happened, you know?
22:43
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so fucking congested because it doesn't happen a lot elsewhere.
22:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
22:48
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, so it's kind of a dummy that if you, why does he have to travel around and heal people?
22:51
[SPEAKER_00]: You just like, you like, that's where snow there?
22:53
[SPEAKER_01]: He can just say it's lazy boy and be like, boom, heal, boom, heal.
22:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
22:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's an over there in Kansas, boom, heal.
23:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
23:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And then he wouldn't have to like, you know, towel to anything.
23:04
[SPEAKER_00]: He's doing like healing people.
23:05
[SPEAKER_00]: It's all a secret.
23:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
23:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
23:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Or, you know, God could have not sent him in the first place and just changed everybody's hearts.
23:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
23:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if you want to go one further.
23:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he could have just said, hey, you know, no more sacrifices.
23:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I absolve you of your sins, you know?
23:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody's healed.
23:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, whatever.
23:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
23:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Nice.
23:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
23:22
[SPEAKER_01]: So Jesus goes on to praise the Centurion's faith.
23:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And he heals his servant from afar, sight and seeing never met the guy.
23:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, Jesus was so impressed with the Centurion because the Centurion has faith in Jesus before even seeing any proof.
23:37
[SPEAKER_01]: He'd only heard stories, but he's like, sure, I'm gonna go ahead and believe in you.
23:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I have faith.
23:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, let's assume that the Centurion cared about his servant, right?
23:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Which I'm sure probably he did.
23:49
[SPEAKER_00]: He's there asking from behield.
23:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And that was something else that I read, but I couldn't find a lot of notes on.
23:57
[SPEAKER_01]: But it is a big deal that he did not just send his servant away or have him killed.
24:03
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a big deal that he had him out.
24:05
[SPEAKER_00]: So there was some sort of emotional attachment there probably.
24:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe.
24:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Now I forget what I was going with that.
24:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's say that that really happened.
24:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
24:18
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't recall what I was going to say that.
24:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm with those.
24:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry.
24:22
[SPEAKER_01]: The centering had faith before even seeing.
24:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
24:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
24:29
[SPEAKER_00]: So I mean, if he really cared for this person.
24:33
[SPEAKER_00]: The faith behind it would be because he's heard stories of this guy healing people would be in the fact that he could heal people not and like it's to me.
24:42
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a big stretch for him to be like I have faith this person can heal my servant and I believe that he is the son of God and that he has godly powers from this yaw way dude who I now believe in like that's a big like those are so many leap to make.
24:58
[SPEAKER_01]: He has magic to heal.
25:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe I can believe in that.
25:02
[SPEAKER_01]: But then on top of that to be like, and he's a Messiah foretold in these Jewish testimonies.
25:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, you're talking about the values of the faith and the fact that he can heal and converting to Judaism.
25:14
[SPEAKER_00]: on the spot.
25:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's two different hearing because of hearing a fucking story from somebody about him healing somebody else.
25:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
25:20
[SPEAKER_01]: That's two different things.
25:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that kind of gets into this other question that I have where people ask, like, do you believe in God or are you saved or?
25:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
25:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Like there's always different questions and I'm like, but what are you really asking?
25:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you asking, do I believe in an all-powerful being?
25:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Or are you asking, do I believe in an afterlife?
25:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Because those are not necessarily the same thing.
25:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Or are you asking,
25:48
[SPEAKER_01]: MIA Christian who takes Christ as my savior, which again, is not necessarily all the same.
25:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you believe in angels could even be taken as a separate question?
25:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Because there are people who 100% believe in angels, but who are also into crystals and numerology, and who claim to be more
26:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't always know what question you're asking and that kind of deals in the same realm as why are we saying that dude went from, I believe you can heal to, I believe you are the Jewish proclaimed son of God who is here to save all of us.
26:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
26:35
[SPEAKER_01]: two different questions.
26:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
26:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
26:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I believe in the big bang versus like God snapped his finger.
26:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that's another question.
26:45
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
26:46
[SPEAKER_01]: My nature.
26:48
[SPEAKER_01]: What are we talking about here?
26:49
[SPEAKER_01]: We're having several different conversations and I just need to all spelled out for me.
26:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's one of the like when when I'm online talking to Christians.
26:59
[SPEAKER_00]: One of my first questions is, what kind of Christian are you?
27:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, are you the creationist, are you Catholic, or are you like, where are we going with this conversation?
27:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
27:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it matters, right?
27:11
[SPEAKER_01]: See, and I would just be like, but are you mega or not?
27:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And we can stop right there because I can't.
27:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, but it does actually matter when you're having a conversation with someone who is Christian, yeah, as to what version of Christianity they are proclaiming, because there are different arguments they all make.
27:29
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I mean, totally reminds me, and I've said this before, it totally reminds me of the movie Civil War when Jesse Clemens,
27:41
[SPEAKER_01]: has his red sunglasses and the people say we're Americans and Jesse Plumman's what whatever the fuck his name is he puts on his red sunglasses and he says well yeah, but what kind of Americans are you?
27:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, that like matters, you know, in this movie, but also kind of in real life, it fucking matters.
28:03
[SPEAKER_01]: What kind of American are you?
28:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you the kind that believes in the principles of what children are taught, like that we are this beautiful place of the American dream and equality for all, or are you the guy who calls the cops on black people and you support ICE.
28:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, what kind of American are you?
28:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
28:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, honestly, it matters.
28:30
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, what kind of Christian are you?
28:31
[SPEAKER_01]: What kind of Jewish person are you?
28:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, all of these questions are tied up in this fucking guy.
28:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
28:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So Jesus uses this in Tureen as an example of trust and recognition of his authority.
28:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And then he goes on to say that many outsiders will now enter God's kingdom while some sons of the kingdom.
28:50
[SPEAKER_01]: So those who actually call themselves followers.
28:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Jewish will not.
28:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is a major theme in the entire book of Matthew.
29:01
[SPEAKER_01]: that outsiders are responding better than insiders.
29:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Got it.
29:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Which that's so gatekeeper and Christian.
29:09
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's almost like they're shaming people into like, hey, these guys get it.
29:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Why aren't you getting it?
29:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
29:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, even the fucking lover gets it.
29:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
29:18
[SPEAKER_01]: What wrong with you, fuckface?
29:20
[SPEAKER_00]: But to me, this is okay.
29:21
[SPEAKER_00]: So like you have your, you've, you've heard of 10 revivals, right?
29:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Where they like, they heal people in the fucking 10 revivals and shit.
29:30
[SPEAKER_00]: whatever.
29:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Like not so much anymore, maybe they still happen, but sneakily definitely, definitely older times like they would, they would heal people in the fucking crowd, right?
29:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm pretty sure they still have those.
29:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, I'm, I'm sure you're probably right, but the reason, like the reason that a lot of this stuff is appealing to outsiders is because sure, if you can heal
29:52
[SPEAKER_00]: me.
29:52
[SPEAKER_01]: If you were someone I walk again, yeah.
29:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Fuck yeah, I'm following you.
29:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course.
29:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, like, but you, I'm following you.
29:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
30:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm, and if that means that I also have follow Jesus, whatever, then sure, whatever.
30:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Drink in your plate.
30:05
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to heal me, though, right?
30:06
[SPEAKER_00]: With your, with your, with your Jesus.
30:08
[SPEAKER_00]: He power there.
30:08
[SPEAKER_01]: You him, whatever we're calling it.
30:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm being healed though, right?
30:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
30:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it has nothing to do with that.
30:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't care where comes.
30:15
[SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't, they don't, people don't fucking care as long as you can help them.
30:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, right, if you want to be helped.
30:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, and that's why if it was legitimate like if any of these things were legitimate I'd be right there with them.
30:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, of course.
30:27
[SPEAKER_00]: You can heal and even you want then then do what I'll who's got that power something got that power?
30:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let me know.
30:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me know.
30:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I really I've got I've got a few ailments.
30:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I need take care of the wrap of the year if you can take care of it then I will I will follow you.
30:43
[SPEAKER_00]: How's that?
30:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know what?
30:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I have OCD, ADHD, and I'm autistic.
30:50
[SPEAKER_01]: If you can get rid of all three of those, like boom, snap your finger, done, and I'm like, all better now.
30:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm not struck.
30:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not on the struggle, but it's so to speak.
30:59
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, sure, sure, I'm good.
31:01
[SPEAKER_01]: We're good, okay?
31:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, let's go.
31:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyways.
31:07
[SPEAKER_01]: So moving on, then we get to where Jesus heals Peter's wife's mother.
31:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Peter Peter's wife's mother Peter Peter Peter Peter Peter Peter Peter Peter Peter Peter Peter Simon Paul Peter Peter yeah yeah okay and and he also heals other people right now we're talking about Peter's mother-in-law okay yeah
31:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And then he delivers from sickness and demonic possession a bunch of other people, okay?
31:33
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to read verses 16 and 17.
31:36
[SPEAKER_01]: When evening came, many who were demon possessed were brought to him and he drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick.
31:43
[SPEAKER_01]: This was to fill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah.
31:48
[SPEAKER_01]: He took up our infirmities and bore our diseases anyways.
31:53
[SPEAKER_00]: So that that lens means to believe that like he had no need to drive those demons into the pigs.
31:58
[SPEAKER_00]: He did it because according to this statement, he takes it upon himself and then just like dissipates it through his godliness.
32:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, no, he drove out the spirit with a word and healed all the sick.
32:12
[SPEAKER_01]: he didn't take the spirits into it.
32:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
32:14
[SPEAKER_01]: The next line is that he fulfilled what was spoken through Isaiah.
32:20
[SPEAKER_01]: He took up our infirmities and bore our diseases, but he didn't take in the demons.
32:25
[SPEAKER_00]: But that line, the prophecy, those speaks to that he took up, took up those things.
32:30
[SPEAKER_00]: That he, that he took them upon himself, sort of.
32:33
[SPEAKER_01]: That illness is.
32:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, our disease as an illness is not the demon possessed.
32:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Whatever.
32:38
[SPEAKER_01]: He did not take the demon.
32:40
[SPEAKER_01]: But he, but at one point he drove out the spirits.
32:43
[SPEAKER_00]: regardless, in one story, in the same book here, he drove them into a fucking pigs.
32:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And now he's not doing that at all.
32:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
32:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's no, like I did as much research as I could find.
32:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, where the, where the demons go this time, there's no pigs mentioned where they go.
33:02
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no mention.
33:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we should know what Jesus says.
33:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Jesus, pick killer from here on out.
33:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Jesus is the pick killer.
33:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
33:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Fucking pick killer.
33:10
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
33:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Bull.
33:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Got damn pick fillet on.
33:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever.
33:14
[SPEAKER_01]: You started calling them a big fucker and that's funny.
33:16
[SPEAKER_01]: A killer, pink killer.
33:18
[SPEAKER_00]: That reminds me of that first episode of Black Mirror and Jesus Christ, so I'm totally even going to count that.
33:26
[SPEAKER_00]: That's terrible.
33:28
[SPEAKER_01]: We had a dear friend tell us that we should watch that show because it was so good, but they forgot that the first episode had like this whole thing and we could not get past it.
33:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm sure the show is excellent.
33:41
[SPEAKER_01]: We, we, we,
33:43
[SPEAKER_01]: just could not get past that first episode.
33:46
[SPEAKER_01]: It was too disturbing.
33:47
[SPEAKER_01]: It was very disturbing.
33:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
33:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So anyways, ancient people attributed many conditions to spirits or demons possession.
34:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, seizures, psychosis, muteness, self-harm, delirium, erratic behavior.
34:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And all of these things, and more, we would today, probably divide these into neurological disorders, psychiatric disorders, epilepsy, trauma, infection, disability.
34:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So there was a lot of ableism happening there.
34:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, obviously.
34:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And we discussed this in the last chapter.
34:26
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's one of those things where just science has taken over and feel it all the gaps to let us know that these things are not magical and and who we both are.
34:39
[SPEAKER_01]: The question is not like.
34:41
[SPEAKER_01]: what demon and how can we get rid of it with which blessings?
34:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Now the question is, okay, so what are the symptoms and how can we treat them if they need to be treated or how can we do work around?
34:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And psychiatry is still learning and progressing, but it's no longer a question of magic.
35:02
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just a question of how we proceed.
35:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, if you're going to go that route, like I mean,
35:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, yeah, I mean, no kidding, like praise lexipro is not for everybody.
35:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Some people who have heart issues can't take it.
35:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
35:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, no, but I'm just saying like the drug industry has done what Jesus did in the Bible of Aaron.
35:27
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it's so true.
35:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And so apparently, you know, drugs and Jesus are, I got blood of Jesus every night when I take the lexipro.
35:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So from a modern perspective, many passages from this chapter in particular, but any passage where Jesus be healed in the sick and the demon possessed.
35:49
[SPEAKER_01]: They absolutely read as prescientific interpretations of illness and disability.
35:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
35:57
[SPEAKER_01]: A-K-A-A-Balism, but there's another layer here too.
36:02
[SPEAKER_01]: In second-temple Judaism, demons also symbolized chaos, oppression, spiritual corruption, and forces hostile to God.
36:14
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was very layered.
36:17
[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't just like
36:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you have this disease, you're gross.
36:22
[SPEAKER_01]: It was, and there's all these reasons why um, God is involved and all these reasons why demons are hunting us and like they just had it's kind of like witches in Salem.
36:35
[SPEAKER_01]: No, totally.
36:36
[SPEAKER_01]: They had these whole stories built around there.
36:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, absolutely.
36:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, it's important though to add that exorcisms were not unique to Jesus and his time period.
36:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
36:46
[SPEAKER_01]: They existed widely in the ancient Mediterranean world and I would love to do a deep dive on that.
36:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, but I don't think they existed in the ancient Judaism world, not so much in the Old Testament.
36:59
[SPEAKER_00]: They might have, like, when they went to Babylon and they had the, what was Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and Zora and
37:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Probably there was a lot of stuff happening.
37:21
[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't just Jesus' thing that we're saying.
37:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
37:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
37:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, there was a lot of stuff going on at that time.
37:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
37:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And exorcism was happening all over the place.
37:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I just feel like we would have heard about exorcisms and demons and the Old Testament at some point.
37:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
37:36
[SPEAKER_00]: If they thought they existed back then.
37:38
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it was just like this time period between the Old and the New Testament was rampant.
37:48
[SPEAKER_01]: with fear and expectation that a Messiah was coming soon and a lot of different cultures had this idea.
38:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
38:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And so the whole evil magic thing was not just restricted to Judaism.
38:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's an easy way to dismiss people you don't want to deal with.
38:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's what the witch trials were all about.
38:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
38:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so but let's go back a minute to the whole what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah because like I always have to go back and be like where you get that from right okay so with the quoting there is from Isaiah chapters 52 and 53 the end of 52 into the beginning of 53 okay so starting at
38:41
[SPEAKER_01]: 52 verse 13 through 53 verse nine.
38:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
38:47
[SPEAKER_01]: See my servant will act wisely or will prosper depending on your translation.
38:53
[SPEAKER_01]: He will be raised and lifted up and highly exalted.
38:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Just as there were many who
38:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Paul, who were appalled at him, his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any human being, and his form marred beyond human likeness.
39:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So he will sprinkle many nations and kings will shut their mouths because of him.
39:13
[SPEAKER_01]: For what they were told, they were not told, they will see, and what they have not heard, they will understand.
39:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
39:27
[SPEAKER_01]: He grew up before him like a tender shoot and like a root out of dry ground.
39:31
[SPEAKER_01]: He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him.
39:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
39:37
[SPEAKER_01]: He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering and familiar with pain.
39:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Like one from whom people hide their faces, he was despised and we held him in lowest
39:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him and afflicted, but he was pierced for our transgressions.
40:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, we come along now.
40:04
[SPEAKER_00]: We did.
40:04
[SPEAKER_00]: We did.
40:05
[SPEAKER_00]: We did.
40:05
[SPEAKER_01]: He was crushed for our iniquities.
40:08
[SPEAKER_01]: The punishment that brought us peace was on him.
40:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And by his wounds, we are healed.
40:14
[SPEAKER_01]: We all like sheep have gone astray.
40:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Each of us has turned to our own way, and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
40:24
[SPEAKER_01]: He was oppressed and afflicted yet he did not open his mouth.
40:28
[SPEAKER_01]: He was led like a lamb to the slaughter and as a sheep before his shearers is silent.
40:33
[SPEAKER_01]: So he did not open his mouth by oppression or from arrest and judgment.
40:40
[SPEAKER_01]: He was taken away yet who of his generation protested for he was cut off from the land of the living.
40:51
[SPEAKER_01]: He was assigned a grave with a wicked and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence nor was any deceit in his mouth.
41:00
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's so much wrong for the description of Jesus there.
41:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's not a description of Jesus.
41:06
[SPEAKER_00]: No, yeah, yeah.
41:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm saying that if we take that as a description of Jesus, there is so much wrong with how that image is depicted now.
41:18
[SPEAKER_00]: and really they don't say anything in the New Testament here in Matthew at least with regard to him being ugly and detestable or anything like that.
41:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
41:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
41:28
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's skipping a whole major point of that whole pro pro proclanation that was made.
41:34
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of people only take like when they say, okay, so like the original thing was, um,
41:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And let me go back to page here.
41:45
[SPEAKER_01]: What was spoken through the prophet Isaiah?
41:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Is the original where we started, right?
41:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Where we started, where we are.
41:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
41:53
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of people will only take a couple of the verses, but that's why I went longer and went out before and after to make sure I got the whole thing of what dude was saying.
42:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, not just a few of the verses, I wanted the whole thing because here's the thing, in its original context Isaiah's quote unquote suffering servant is widely understood by Jewish interpreters as Israel collectively or a faithful remnant within Israel.
42:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
42:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, that remnant, we're always talking about the remnant, not
42:28
[SPEAKER_01]: a future Messiah.
42:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And Judaism, we are.
42:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
42:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And Christianity, they're obviously talking about Jesus.
42:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it doesn't matter what they're talking about.
42:35
[SPEAKER_01]: They can say, no, he was talking about this, but the Jews wrote the fucking book.
42:41
[SPEAKER_01]: They will tell you what he was talking about.
42:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, sure.
42:45
[SPEAKER_00]: But again, even with, so the Old Testament had so many inconsistencies, so many contradictions, right?
42:51
[SPEAKER_00]: We, I mean, that was a whole, it was a whole thing.
42:53
[SPEAKER_00]: What we did, right?
42:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
42:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
42:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's still true.
42:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's becoming more and more.
42:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, this is going to be the heroine of how many fucking contradictions we're going to have to cover in this.
43:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this is, and this is just, it's not.
43:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a
43:14
[SPEAKER_00]: It's been, they've been cherry picking from before Jesus.
43:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's still cherry, they're cherry picking worse now that they have a Jesus.
43:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
43:23
[SPEAKER_00]: They're just like, and we're gonna take that bit and that bit totally totally.
43:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's so bad.
43:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And then not only that, but you take Christians today and they take this whole thing that was cherry picked back then and they cherry pick it more.
43:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but they cherry pick from the cherry pickings.
43:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh shit.
43:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
43:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't even know what he knows.
43:43
[SPEAKER_01]: What is he going to learn?
43:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't had cherries anymore.
43:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, look, look, I'm not saying that the Jews got it right.
43:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
43:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, no, they did.
43:50
[SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, honestly, they did it.
43:52
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think I'm going to go with their interpretation.
43:56
[SPEAKER_01]: If I'm going to go with any religious interpretation, I'm going to go with their interpretation of the Hebrew Bible, of the Old Testament,
44:08
[SPEAKER_01]: take what the Christian say it says.
44:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Well now, but just to be fair, these these this group of people is a denomination sect group of Jewish people at the time.
44:19
[SPEAKER_01]: At the time, but they're rewriting and pulling from and back stuffing.
44:25
[SPEAKER_00]: But even in the Old Testament, things changed from back and Moses's time to win.
44:29
[SPEAKER_00]: We got like, there's a lot of upheaval in Judaism.
44:33
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I totally get what you're saying, but like, and then it stopped.
44:36
[SPEAKER_01]: There was a stopping point.
44:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the book ended, the end, you know what I mean?
44:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it did the minor profits and then the end.
44:43
[SPEAKER_01]: There was no more.
44:44
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're done.
44:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So the Hebrew Bible, that's what we have, that's what we got, and we can talk about that.
44:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Anything that comes after that, I'm like, you're just a, you're just a different sect of Judaism and you're misinterpreting things that were already questionable at best.
45:03
[SPEAKER_01]: So you don't even count a bit.
45:05
[SPEAKER_01]: That's, that's my take on Christianity at this point.
45:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, but there, there is some, like, I'm not saying that specifically there, but there is some thoughts even in Judaism still that there is a coming Messiah.
45:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that's that that is still a possibility that that the years and leaves are like but they're not like trying to start wars and countries and stuff to make it happen are they?
45:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, America is like real super fucking excited about it.
45:34
[SPEAKER_01]: That would be uh oh I guess that's the whole America team is real so I was going to say you might want to like eat your words there.
45:41
[SPEAKER_00]: So I guess the Israeli Jews are and there was the whole Palestinian
45:45
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, issue and I mean, Israel's kind of a warm-unger right now.
45:50
[SPEAKER_00]: So I would maybe like, you know, walk that one back a little bit.
45:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, Katie and Rayleigh Jews are very excited to bring about the end of the world.
45:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
45:59
[SPEAKER_00]: And whatever it is they're doing.
46:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
46:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's not though.
46:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
46:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
46:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Religion is stupid.
46:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
46:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think we can all agree on that.
46:10
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, anyways, Christians later reinterpreted these stupid passages, messianically, and applied them to Jesus.
46:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
46:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that, that's just a thing.
46:23
[SPEAKER_01]: It happened.
46:23
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a fact.
46:25
[SPEAKER_01]: This is one of the major Jewish Christian interpretive splits.
46:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Dole.
46:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
46:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Modern scholars generally agree that Matthew is rereading Isaiah through a very Christian lens.
46:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
46:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Not simply reproducing Isaiah's original historical meaning.
46:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, because they leave, I mean, yeah, they they leave out.
46:46
[SPEAKER_00]: When they reference it, they leave out the big first.
46:50
[SPEAKER_01]: different from what they want and that's why i try to gather versus on either end right like they're like they're quoting versus six and i'm like okay let's read versus one through twenty just to make sure that six is in contact not that this would ever convince anybody who's
47:10
[SPEAKER_00]: vehemently Christian, right?
47:12
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you are thinking about, if you're deconstructing, if you're thinking about your religion and going, should I believe that, then maybe, maybe you ought to like go back and examine the full context of these things and the Old Testament that you were taught about early on because that's where these problems really start kind of feeling in.
47:31
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're deconstructing, you could ditch the New Testament and just go read the Old Testament and
47:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And listen.
47:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, listen to our podcast of the Hebrew Bible, which is the Old Testament and you know, see if you can answer our questions.
47:48
[SPEAKER_01]: See if the question that we have met your own.
47:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
47:53
[SPEAKER_01]: you don't have to worry about the new testament.
47:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Just read the old testament.
47:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what your religion is based on.
48:00
[SPEAKER_01]: If your deep constructing, I feel like the old testament is super fucking important.
48:05
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're talking about prophecies fulfilled, read the fucking prophecies.
48:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
48:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you get out of the old testament, you don't think God's a dick, then I can't help you.
48:16
[SPEAKER_01]: then you were always gonna think that and that's fine.
48:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And whatever, this kind of reinterpretation was common in ancient Judaism.
48:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Early Christians constantly searched the Hebrew scriptures for passages that they believed for shadowed Jesus.
48:33
[SPEAKER_00]: So they want something they're trying to find it.
48:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah.
48:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's kind of like if you're doing a book report, right?
48:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And you have a theory about a character, then you're going to go through the book, looking for quotes from the book that support your hypothesis about that character.
48:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
48:50
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm not necessarily saying that like they were doing it wrong, but they were
49:02
[SPEAKER_00]: You're already talking about a mythical being.
49:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
49:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
49:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Are they?
49:06
[SPEAKER_00]: That's true.
49:06
[SPEAKER_00]: How wrong you're right.
49:08
[SPEAKER_00]: You start out at wrong and you ended up at wrong.
49:10
[SPEAKER_00]: So you didn't really get that far.
49:12
[SPEAKER_01]: No, you're right.
49:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, moving on because I just can't like this ship pisses me off so bad.
49:18
[SPEAKER_01]: So then we get Jesus.
49:20
[SPEAKER_01]: He departs.
49:21
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, I'm out.
49:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And um, two persons offer to be his disciples.
49:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And then he teaches them.
49:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
49:29
[SPEAKER_01]: He speaks to and over enthusiastic follower about the need to appreciate the cost and following Jesus.
49:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And we didn't get any of this.
49:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I don't know if you can even recall what these verses were.
49:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
49:42
[SPEAKER_01]: it's verse 20.
49:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Jesus replied, foxes have dents or holes depending on your interpretation.
49:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And birds have nests, but the son of man has no place to lie his hands.
49:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Remember that?
49:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
49:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And we were like, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about with foxes and birds and ends and holes, atheists and fox holes.
50:02
[SPEAKER_01]: What?
50:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Foxes have dance and birds have nest, right?
50:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
50:06
[SPEAKER_01]: What he's saying is that discipleship is on fucking comfortable and following Jesus means instability and sacrifice.
50:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
50:15
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not gonna have a good place to lay your head if you follow me.
50:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
50:19
[SPEAKER_01]: So just be wise in, you know, just know that ahead of time.
50:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
50:24
[SPEAKER_00]: That was fun.
50:24
[SPEAKER_01]: The rewards in the afterlife will be great.
50:27
[SPEAKER_01]: But you're gonna get stoned to death.
50:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you good with that?
50:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Like sure.
50:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
50:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there was like that whole son of man thing.
50:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's his that again in the next chapter.
50:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
50:39
[SPEAKER_01]: That we'll see again when we get to that Q&A.
50:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
50:43
[SPEAKER_01]: depending on where it's used, like there's questions, like in this chapter it's usually interpreted by Christians as a Hebrew phrase expressive of humiliation and debasement.
50:56
[SPEAKER_01]: But Jesus uses it constantly and so scholars still debate exactly what is meant by it because in some places it means a humble
51:09
[SPEAKER_01]: messy on a title and and an indirect self reference.
51:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
51:15
[SPEAKER_01]: So like it's one of those son of man.
51:17
[SPEAKER_01]: What does that mean?
51:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm.
51:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
51:19
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the final answer.
51:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
51:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm.
51:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
51:23
[SPEAKER_01]: We got that a lot in the Old Testament, too.
51:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
51:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
51:26
[SPEAKER_01]: It's one of the most argued over phrases in New Testament scholarship.
51:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm.
51:31
[SPEAKER_01]: son of man.
51:32
[SPEAKER_01]: What is interesting is that son of Adam and daughter of Eve are phrases that are used by CS Lewis in, well, that's I thought we had learned the line the witch in the wardrobe.
51:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, the Narnia.
51:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
51:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought we had learned at one point the Old Testament that son of man was basically Adam, like Adam, like, you said that the lastness came up and we were wrong.
51:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay,
51:59
[SPEAKER_01]: We determined that you were wrong.
52:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Got it.
52:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
52:02
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know why I thought that then.
52:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Son of man that doesn't even make sense.
52:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Son of himself.
52:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's true.
52:08
[SPEAKER_01]: How can Adam be the son of himself?
52:10
[SPEAKER_01]: You're confusing son of man with son of Adam, which is C as Lewis.
52:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, and that's fine.
52:20
[SPEAKER_01]: That's fine.
52:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so moving on, we get verses 21 and 22.
52:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Another disciple said to him, first let me go and bury my father, but Jesus told him, follow me and let the dead bury their own dead.
52:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
52:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And we were like, whoo, rude.
52:36
[SPEAKER_00]: And I call us.
52:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
52:37
[SPEAKER_01]: This line shocks people because burial obligations were super sacred in Judaism.
52:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, I mean, they are still really.
52:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, like, you really go skip a funeral for something that was his father?
52:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
52:50
[SPEAKER_00]: You wouldn't just keep your father's funeral to go follow some dude.
52:52
[SPEAKER_01]: No, but there's three different things, three different maybe interpretation, okay?
52:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Jesus may have been using hyperbole to state that the kingdom movement takes priority over everything else.
53:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And that all the common offices of life may be performed by any person, but to preach the tidings of the kingdom of God is only granted to a few.
53:17
[SPEAKER_01]: and to these only by a very special call.
53:21
[SPEAKER_01]: So these few should therefore immediately abandon worldly concerns and employment and give themselves all the up to the work of minister.
53:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, they are immediately your lives are over.
53:32
[SPEAKER_00]: You're done.
53:33
[SPEAKER_00]: You're, you're, you're all, you're God's child work for me now.
53:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
53:37
[SPEAKER_00]: period.
53:38
[SPEAKER_01]: No joy for you.
53:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Nothing.
53:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Not even your dad's funeral.
53:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
53:42
[SPEAKER_00]: That's good.
53:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Look off with that.
53:43
[SPEAKER_01]: That's needy bullshit that I don't have time for.
53:46
[SPEAKER_01]: You will pee in a Mountain Dew bottle and get those packages delivered.
53:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
53:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
53:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
53:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's that.
53:54
[SPEAKER_01]: next others interpreted to differentiate the spiritually dead from the physically dead.
54:01
[SPEAKER_01]: It was usual for Jews to consider a man as quote unquote dead who had departed from the precepts of the capital L. Law.
54:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
54:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And on this ground, every transgressor was reputed to be a dead man like dead man walking kind of thing.
54:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Got it.
54:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Like they're spiritually dead.
54:19
[SPEAKER_01]: So fucking got it.
54:21
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't
54:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Natural death is the separation of the body and the soul.
54:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Spiritual death is the separation of God in the soul.
54:31
[SPEAKER_01]: So they considered men who live in sin to be dead to God.
54:37
[SPEAKER_01]: He was basically saying, leave the spiritually dead to bury their natural dead.
54:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I see.
54:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
54:43
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's the second interpretation.
54:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
54:46
[SPEAKER_01]: which that kind of makes sense.
54:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I can see what they're saying there, even though I completely 110% think that that's bullshit.
54:53
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a third interpretation that suggests delayed commitment.
54:58
[SPEAKER_01]: The man may not literally have had a dead father yet.
55:01
[SPEAKER_01]: He may have met, let me stay home until my father eventually dies.
55:05
[SPEAKER_01]: My dad's an old man.
55:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll come with you when I'm done caring for my father
55:14
[SPEAKER_01]: In that case, Jesus is rejecting indefinite post-poment.
55:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Got it.
55:19
[SPEAKER_01]: So, and that one I can kind of see too.
55:21
[SPEAKER_00]: What I'm hearing a lot here is that nobody really knows what the fuck's going on exactly.
55:26
[SPEAKER_01]: No, but one thing out of these three, regardless of what is meant, the passage emphasizes 100% radical commitment, and that's bullshit.
55:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not here for it like no that's a cult and I am out right like I'm I I'm not doing that that sounds dumb right I don't know whatever.
55:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I can't with this.
55:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, then we move on to versus 23 through 26 then you got into the boat
55:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And his disciples followed him.
55:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Remember this was fucking storm suddenly.
56:00
[SPEAKER_01]: A furious storm came up on the lake so that the waves swept over the boat.
56:05
[SPEAKER_01]: But Jesus was sleeping.
56:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
56:06
[SPEAKER_01]: The disciples went and woke him saying, Oh, no, save us.
56:09
[SPEAKER_01]: We gone drown.
56:11
[SPEAKER_01]: He replied, ah, you have little faith.
56:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Why are you so afraid, brothers?
56:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Then he got up and rebuked the wind in the waves.
56:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Talk you with your members.
56:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
56:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was completely called.
56:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
56:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
56:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And we were like,
56:24
[SPEAKER_01]: can a lake really.
56:26
[SPEAKER_00]: We had people reach out to us.
56:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, actually.
56:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
56:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And I wanted to give you room to say that because then I also found how stormy can a lake actually get.
56:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
56:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Quite stormy actually.
56:39
[SPEAKER_01]: My bad.
56:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I apologize.
56:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I did not know.
56:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Also above and beyond that, the Sea of Galilee is below sea level surrounded by hills and vulnerable to sudden violent wind storms.
56:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Cold air rushing through valleys can create dangerous conditions quickly.
56:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Fishermen still experience this there to this day.
57:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I had no idea, again, I apologize I was wrong.
57:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
57:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
57:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Mark it in the book.
57:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Because, for instance, I don't home when I'm wrong.
57:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would like for him to know that I said, I was wrong.
57:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And I apologize.
57:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Jesus was the one who suggested that the group sail across the lake, right?
57:21
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, let's go, guys.
57:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And the late was apparently well known for its fear storms blowing up quickly out of nowhere.
57:29
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's why the disciples were like, BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
57:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Why?
57:40
[SPEAKER_01]: We can wake you bitch.
57:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
57:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Wait, you made us get in this fucking boat that you knew there could be a storm.
57:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
57:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Why you let this happen?
57:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
57:50
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's where they're expressing disappointment with Jesus when he did nothing to help.
57:54
[SPEAKER_01]: But was instead snorted up and back in the boat.
57:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
57:58
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're like the fuck dude.
58:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
58:01
[SPEAKER_01]: So right now.
58:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Snoring it up.
58:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought he was snoring it up.
58:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like snoring.
58:05
[SPEAKER_00]: He's doing coke back there.
58:06
[SPEAKER_00]: What's he doing?
58:07
[SPEAKER_01]: He was snoring it up.
58:08
[SPEAKER_01]: He was sleeping hard.
58:09
[SPEAKER_01]: He was gotten z.
58:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
58:11
[SPEAKER_01]: He was probably tired from all that work.
58:13
[SPEAKER_01]: It was an indication likely of the tiredness from his constant miracle healing, you know?
58:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously.
58:18
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm tired.
58:19
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a long time.
58:22
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's why they were pissy because it's not like they were like, let's get on a boat!
58:28
[SPEAKER_01]: They were like, this boat, this, this lake?
58:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Really?
58:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And Jesus is like, come on.
58:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and then he went to sleep.
58:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the storm came and they were like, fuck me, are you serious?
58:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they were like, on top of that, fuck me, are you serious?
58:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they see him sleeping and they're like, really Jesus?
58:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
58:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And Jesus is like,
58:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a faith bitch, and they're like, well, I like did until like the boat about capsized and again you didn't tell us like to this point.
58:59
[SPEAKER_01]: We've only seen magic powers that are like making people be healed.
59:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we didn't know you could control the weather.
59:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
59:06
[SPEAKER_00]: That's that's new.
59:07
[SPEAKER_00]: That's new.
59:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's a big deal, is why I was saying that because here's the thing, Jesus displays his authority over creation, that's what the story is actually amount.
59:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
59:20
[SPEAKER_01]: The story is symbolic, not just meteorological.
59:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
59:24
[SPEAKER_01]: ancient Mediterranean cultures often associated large bodies of water with chaos, danger, death, and cosmic disorder.
59:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
59:33
[SPEAKER_01]: In the Hebrew Bible, God repeatedly demonstrates power by controlling waters.
59:39
[SPEAKER_00]: He does, right?
59:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So when Jesus calms the storm, the ancient audience hears more than just he stopped the bad weather, they hear he's doing something
59:51
[SPEAKER_01]: big fucking deal, right, which I didn't get all that.
59:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, why they mad?
59:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Why do you sleep in?
59:58
[SPEAKER_01]: What's going on?
59:59
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it was a means to an end for the story.
1:00:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, exactly.
1:00:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was they they made a reason for this to happen.
1:00:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like reply needed it to be.
1:00:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, plus Jesus wasn't where he could walk on the water apparently.
1:00:13
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not there yet.
1:00:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I know, but I hear he can walk on water.
1:00:17
[SPEAKER_01]: It's
1:00:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I haven't seen it at, oh no.
1:00:22
[SPEAKER_01]: So then we get to where Jesus meets two demon possessed man and he cares them and then the demons enter into the herd of swine, which rushing into the sea perish.
1:00:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Ah, yes, that's true.
1:00:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Here we go.
1:00:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:00:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:00:36
[SPEAKER_01]: The swine herds announced the miracle to the girthenesis, um, should be that we can't say, who then request Christ to depart from their country a fucking sat.
1:00:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, he's like, they're like, get out.
1:00:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
1:00:51
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is versus 30 through 32.
1:00:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Some distance from them a large herd of pigs was feeding.
1:00:56
[SPEAKER_01]: The demons begged Jesus if he drive us out, send us into the herd of pigs.
1:01:01
[SPEAKER_01]: He said to them, go!
1:01:03
[SPEAKER_01]: So they came out and went into the pigs and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and died in the water.
1:01:10
[SPEAKER_01]: What the fuck?
1:01:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And we were like, I'm sorry, what just happened just now?
1:01:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, I didn't realize that they asked to be.
1:01:16
[SPEAKER_00]: The, the demon's asked him to, okay, all right.
1:01:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:01:19
[SPEAKER_00]: That's weird.
1:01:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:01:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
1:01:21
[SPEAKER_01]: They were like, if you're going to send us out, put us in the herd of pigs.
1:01:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
1:01:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is really weird.
1:01:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they ran down and drown.
1:01:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:01:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:01:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
1:01:29
[SPEAKER_01]: So at first, the pigs would strongly suggest that this was Gentile or mixed territory because Jews generally did not eat pork.
1:01:39
[SPEAKER_01]: We had questions about this, right?
1:01:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Because of dietary laws that were given in
1:01:45
[SPEAKER_01]: But the region of this city got getarines or garis says knees it depends on what translation you're reading.
1:01:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
1:01:57
[SPEAKER_01]: There's like six different ways that the city could be spelled.
1:02:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's fun.
1:02:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
1:02:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:02:03
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was part of the decapolis area.
1:02:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Remember we talked about the decapolis was a city composed of 10 smaller regions and none of them had their own little name.
1:02:14
[SPEAKER_01]: So they just called it the decapolis.
1:02:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I kind of vaguely remember that.
1:02:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:02:18
[SPEAKER_01]: So that the decapolis was heavily influenced by Greek and Roman culture and contained many Gentiles.
1:02:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
1:02:27
[SPEAKER_01]: So.
1:02:28
[SPEAKER_01]: That's very likely what that area was, okay?
1:02:31
[SPEAKER_01]: So the fact that pig farming occurred there is actually not surprising.
1:02:35
[SPEAKER_01]: It was surprising to us because we're like, whoa, yeah, because we didn't know where they were.
1:02:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.
1:02:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's not a surprise though that these folks were pig farming, okay?
1:02:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Pigs may have been used for food, trade, Roman military supply or economic livelihood.
1:02:54
[SPEAKER_01]: These were in all probability, Jewish property though, and thus kept and used in express violation of the law of God, and therefore their destruction was a proper manifestation of the justice of God.
1:03:10
[SPEAKER_01]: So, a lot of notes went back and forth on that.
1:03:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, a lot of like Christian scholars would be like, yes, those Jews were bad.
1:03:20
[SPEAKER_01]: They were Jews and they were doing wrong.
1:03:22
[SPEAKER_01]: But then other scholars that are not Christian would be like, maybe it was Jewish, but probably more like Gentiles, so it was wrong.
1:03:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was a Roman.
1:03:32
[SPEAKER_00]: We carry it, and maybe not.
1:03:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
1:03:34
[SPEAKER_01]: So it just depends on which scholar you go with.
1:03:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna lean towards, I bet it was Gentiles.
1:03:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, but it does matter though with regard to what happened, right?
1:03:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And to me, it feels more like Gentiles because knowing no one liked, they wanted them out.
1:03:50
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, yeah, fuck out.
1:03:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.
1:03:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So the question was, why send the demons into the pit, right?
1:03:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So here's the thing.
1:04:00
[SPEAKER_01]: For one thing, I'm going to tell you he this first, and then I'll tell you something else.
1:04:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Pig symbolized uncleanist to juice, so there's obviously that symbolic resonance, which I think I even said at the time, they're unclovein, or they are clovein animals, and that makes them unclean, and that's why blah, blah, blah.
1:04:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Unclean spirits entering unclean animals blah blah blah.
1:04:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Also demons going into animals visibly proves that they left and the destructive stampede dramatizes the danger of the demons, right?
1:04:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
1:04:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
1:04:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's another thing, though.
1:04:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Um,
1:04:36
[SPEAKER_01]: a lot of Christian apologists will say that a lot of times when the unclean maker request God will grant it if it goes ahead and harms them.
1:04:52
[SPEAKER_01]: to prove the point.
1:04:53
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's why they were they ran into the.
1:04:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, whatever.
1:04:57
[SPEAKER_01]: He was like, yeah, go ahead.
1:04:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
1:04:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Go ahead.
1:05:00
[SPEAKER_01]: You're in the pigs now.
1:05:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the pigs immediately run into the water and jump.
1:05:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Some scholars also note a possible anti Roman symbolism here.
1:05:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Roman legions sometimes used bore imagery.
1:05:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Additionally, the word legion is a Roman military term
1:05:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I think in Mark, so that sounds to me more likely.
1:05:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:05:29
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know, whatever, that would make more sense to me.
1:05:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to go with it was Gentile and it was anti-Roman symbolism.
1:05:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
1:05:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
1:05:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Both.
1:05:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:05:41
[SPEAKER_01]: That makes sense.
1:05:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
1:05:42
[SPEAKER_01]: So then the people asked Jesus to get the fuck out.
1:05:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And we were like,
1:05:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, helped to people not be demons any right and they were violent.
1:05:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:05:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, they killed the pigs, but still.
1:06:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so we were like, why are the townspeople upset?
1:06:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And they'd be happy that dangerous memory healed.
1:06:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
1:06:07
[SPEAKER_01]: The fuck.
1:06:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:06:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Ray, but from the town's people's perspective, especially if they were Gentiles, this strange holy man arrives and he's like raving lunatic to them, like just spouting off shit that they don't know anything about.
1:06:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
1:06:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Super natural chaos erupts.
1:06:23
[SPEAKER_01]: For good or for worse, doesn't matter.
1:06:25
[SPEAKER_01]: It's weird.
1:06:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
1:06:26
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't like magical weirdness.
1:06:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:06:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
1:06:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:06:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, a huge herd just up and dies.
1:06:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
1:06:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And someone has lost substantial wealth, which we mentioned at the time.
1:06:37
[SPEAKER_01]: No wonder the pig herders ran into town and were like, Jesus fucking Christ, which is lost.
1:06:44
[SPEAKER_01]: They're whole fucking head.
1:06:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
1:06:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why you didn't British accents, but that's what happened.
1:06:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
1:06:51
[SPEAKER_01]: So this story reflects a recurring gospel theme.
1:06:55
[SPEAKER_01]: People react to divine power with fear rather than gratitude.
1:07:00
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the point that Matthew was trying to make.
1:07:03
[SPEAKER_01]: But
1:07:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, yeah, but you were like in land that wasn't welcoming your stories.
1:07:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:07:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that's all you.
1:07:12
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't see so much fear as anger.
1:07:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:07:15
[SPEAKER_00]: This dude just fucking killed a whole herd of pigs.
1:07:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Get the fuck out of here.
1:07:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I didn't see it.
1:07:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you don't fucking kill you.
1:07:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it didn't see they were scared.
1:07:23
[SPEAKER_01]: It said you can leave now.
1:07:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
1:07:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it just told them to get out.
1:07:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
1:07:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it didn't say they were scared.
1:07:31
[SPEAKER_01]: It just said, get out.
1:07:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And Jesus, like, me.
1:07:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even hardly blame him.
1:07:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you just get off a whole heart of fucking pigs.
1:07:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:07:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's not cool, man.
1:07:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
1:07:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And for all we know, the two quote unquote demon possessed guys that were violent, maybe they were protecting the road.
1:07:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
1:07:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, maybe they were, you know, they were keeping them from going into the fucking lake or whatever.
1:07:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
1:07:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
1:07:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
1:07:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Another note about demons, though, demons usually seem to recognize Jesus faster than the humans do.
1:08:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Because the demons recognize him immediately, and we're like, son of David, dude.
1:08:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
1:08:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, if you're going to do something with us, send us into the pigs, man.
1:08:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
1:08:15
[SPEAKER_01]: This happens constantly in the gospels we're going to see that the deep there's going to be more demons apparently Okay, and they will always immediately recognize him as magical super son of God man I guess magical people recognize other magical people like to like meets like you know, yeah
1:08:32
[SPEAKER_01]: So ironically, his own disciples will repeatedly misunderstand him, the crowds almost always misunderstand him, yet the demons 100% instantly know who he is and recognize his power and abilities.
1:08:49
[SPEAKER_01]: That's another point that Matthew's trying to make here.
1:08:52
[SPEAKER_01]: okay okay and it's uh it's gonna be a repetitive literary motif throughout this whole book we're gonna see the demons always get it to show that he's super natural or yes yes we're not exactly okay yeah the the people that are either godly and good or the people who are anti godly bad right
1:09:14
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll always recognize Jesus because they need to show the undercurrent of all this God shit.
1:09:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so I look it's there.
1:09:24
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't you see it right they see it this happening.
1:09:28
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just Interesting that normal folk can't see it.
1:09:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't get it right they just they're two they're two normies.
1:09:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah Don't be a normie.
1:09:37
[SPEAKER_00]: He's got to believe us.
1:09:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, just be special.
1:09:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
1:09:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay
1:09:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyways, so chapter eight quietly contains an anti-status message.
1:09:48
[SPEAKER_01]: The people who received praise are not scholars and not rulers.
1:09:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Instead it's sick people, servants, disgusting women, you women, you girls.
1:09:59
[SPEAKER_01]: foreigners social outcasts, right?
1:10:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:10:03
[SPEAKER_01]: This pattern shows up repeatedly in the gospels.
1:10:05
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're going to see much more of this and it's going to make me barred.
1:10:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:10:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And it likely contributed to Christianity's appeal among lower status population.
1:10:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, because you always hear how Jesus helped the sick and the poor.
1:10:19
[SPEAKER_01]: The mingle and heroth ear.
1:10:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
1:10:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:10:21
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the part you always hear.
1:10:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:10:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
1:10:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course.
1:10:25
[SPEAKER_01]: So another interesting thing that jumps out in Matthew chapter eight is that nobody reacts to miracles the way a modern day Apologist often imagines that they would.
1:10:36
[SPEAKER_01]: People don't say a miracle happened Christianity must be true.
1:10:40
[SPEAKER_01]: It's beautiful.
1:10:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Look at the magic that's happening.
1:10:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Christ is here.
1:10:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Yay.
1:10:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
1:10:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Like Christians.
1:10:49
[SPEAKER_01]: think that that's the way people were just walking around going Christ is here.
1:10:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's celebrate.
1:10:54
[SPEAKER_01]: We, but instead regular people were not doing that.
1:10:59
[SPEAKER_01]: They were reacting with beer, confusion, skepticism, request for secrecy and demands that Jesus get the fuck out of town.
1:11:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
1:11:08
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how the majority of people were acting.
1:11:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Question a lot of this.
1:11:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
1:11:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
1:11:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Because again, if you can prove that you're doing this
1:11:19
[SPEAKER_01]: But even when I read that note, I was like, huh, because even within the narrative itself, miracle miracles rarely produce universal relief.
1:11:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me read that again.
1:11:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Even within the narrative itself, miracles rarely produce universal relief.
1:11:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
1:11:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's just kind of cool, actually.
1:11:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
1:11:47
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't, these stories, even in the stories, they're not inspiring crowds to believe.
1:11:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
1:11:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, your own story is stupid.
1:11:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:11:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Your own story is calling us so stupid.
1:12:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:12:01
[SPEAKER_01]: That's kind of nuanced in a way.
1:12:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure if it's brilliant or just absolutely the worst.
1:12:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
1:12:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I, again, you kind of said at the beginning, but I, I feel like this is just,
1:12:17
[SPEAKER_00]: They're just trying to prove that Jesus is Jesus, and they're trying to really fuck your heart.
1:12:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's gross.
1:12:24
[SPEAKER_00]: It really, really bothers me.
1:12:27
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, it's annoying, it's tiresome.
1:12:32
[SPEAKER_01]: It's causing extra work because I have to keep on okay, you're quoting the Old Testament.
1:12:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Now I have to go find out, what are you quoting exactly?
1:12:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, you think you're quoting this one or two verses, but let me actually grab the whole thing to see what actually was said and what did that mean?
1:12:51
[SPEAKER_01]: The stupidity is causing me extra work, and I really resented it.
1:12:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the part that really bothers me is that it's so obvious that they're trying really hard to make a point that this guy is the son of God, right?
1:13:06
[SPEAKER_00]: To the point of absurdity.
1:13:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
1:13:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
1:13:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And yet,
1:13:13
[SPEAKER_00]: questions don't see this right they don't they don't see even more questions they don't see this is just absurd prophecy stuffing and absurd nonsense stories that obviously didn't happen the way they say they happen right you know like this is just it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't make sense it doesn't really track with like legitimate
1:13:39
[SPEAKER_00]: story, nothing here rings true.
1:13:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it doesn't ring.
1:13:45
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so obviously fake and silly.
1:13:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:13:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And because the people were simple, they didn't have to try.
1:13:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we have Netflix now.
1:13:54
[SPEAKER_01]: You got to try a lot harder to pull people these days.
1:13:57
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, people by AI because it's so much more progressed.
1:14:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't feel like you're going to try that hard.
1:14:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
1:14:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
1:14:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, anyway, that was our Q&A for today.
1:14:12
[SPEAKER_01]: That was our Q&A for today.
1:14:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Over Chapter A.
1:14:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, of Little Matty.
1:14:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
1:14:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Which I think we're going to try to come back tomorrow, hopefully, with.
1:14:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Jeff, there's nine and 10 of Little Maddie.
1:14:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Q&A.
1:14:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Q&A.
1:14:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
1:14:29
[SPEAKER_01]: So that'll be a Q&A, part two on Sunday.
1:14:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, it's right.
1:14:34
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
1:14:36
[SPEAKER_00]: That being said, we will see you guys then.
1:14:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, bye.