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Ron DeSantis WINS Second Debate · The Ben Ferguson Podcast

0:01
Speaker 1: Welcome.
0:01
Speaker 2: It is verdict was center Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you,
0:05
Speaker 2: and it is our debate show. If you watched the
0:09
Speaker 2: Republican debate, you saw some lively moments. Senator, you watched it,
0:14
Speaker 2: I watched it. Give me your overall takeaway. Who was
0:17
Speaker 2: the big winner and was there any even a second place?
0:22
Speaker 3: So you and I are recording this at is eleven
0:24
Speaker 3: forty one pm East Coast time.
0:26
Speaker 1: I'm in DC.
0:27
Speaker 3: So the debate just ended a few minutes ago. I
0:31
Speaker 3: gotta say my reaction to it. This was a bumpy debate.
0:35
Speaker 3: There were a lot of rocky moments. I think most
0:38
Speaker 3: of the candidates did not help themselves. But my clear
0:42
Speaker 3: conclusion from tonight is the big winner was Ron de Santis.
0:47
Speaker 1: Why is that?
0:47
Speaker 3: I did well? I did not think that in Debate one?
0:50
Speaker 3: So remember Debate one. We came together and I said,
0:52
Speaker 3: the winners in Debate one were Vivek Ramaswami and Nikki
0:56
Speaker 3: Haley and a little bit Mike Pens and the real
0:59
Speaker 3: winner was Donald Trump because all three of them were elevated,
1:02
Speaker 3: and that hurt DeSantis, and DeSantis needs to make it
1:05
Speaker 3: a two man race with Trump, and so that was
1:07
Speaker 3: my take on debate one. I think going into the night,
1:10
Speaker 3: Dessantus needed to do well, and I think he rose
1:14
Speaker 3: to the occasion. I think he did by far the
1:16
Speaker 3: best of anyone on the stage several reasons. Number one
1:22
Speaker 3: is just the behavior of the others. I think they
1:25
Speaker 3: bickered like children, and I don't think it helped them.
1:27
Speaker 3: I think when they were just yelling at each other,
1:29
Speaker 3: back and forth, and back and forth and back and forth.
1:32
Speaker 3: When you see a bunch of people screaming at each other,
1:34
Speaker 3: they don't look like presidents. They're not behaving like presidents.
1:38
Speaker 3: Presidents don't have to yap at each other. And I
1:41
Speaker 3: thought there were times, particularly early in the debate, when
1:44
Speaker 3: the debate kind of got away from the moderators. As
1:47
Speaker 3: the debate went on, the moderators did a better job
1:51
Speaker 3: of getting a little bit of control of it and
1:53
Speaker 3: having a little bit more discussion. But DeSantis had several
1:58
Speaker 3: He had the best answers of the night. The single
2:00
Speaker 3: best answer of the night was his answer on education,
2:04
Speaker 3: and he was the topic came up about education, It
2:06
Speaker 3: came up about school choice, and he gave a strong,
2:10
Speaker 3: powerful answer about school choice. About how Number one Florida
2:14
Speaker 3: implemented universal school choice. Florida's led the country in school choice,
2:18
Speaker 3: so they've got a heck of a record to talk about.
2:21
Speaker 3: He was asked about the attacks on their efforts to
2:24
Speaker 3: root out critical race theory in Florida, and he directly
2:28
Speaker 3: confronted that, and I thought it was a tight, crisp
2:31
Speaker 3: answer that was strong. A second answer that was very
2:36
Speaker 3: very strong is where he talked about having victories and listen,
2:40
Speaker 3: the reason people got excited about Dissantis when he launched
2:43
Speaker 3: the campaign is the victories that he had in Florida,
2:46
Speaker 3: big policy victories. He emphasized that. The third answer that
2:50
Speaker 3: was really strong is where he talked about winning, and
2:53
Speaker 3: he talked about winning in Florida even as nationally we
2:56
Speaker 3: were getting clobbered. In twenty twenty two, he won by
2:59
Speaker 3: nineteen points. And I think he did an effective argument
3:04
Speaker 3: in many ways. His strongest argument against Trump is that
3:08
Speaker 3: he won by while many other candidates that Trump had
3:11
Speaker 3: supported nationally did not win that cycle. And and and
3:14
Speaker 3: his argument, you want a winner, you want someone who
3:17
Speaker 3: can beat the Democrats. I'm that guy. I think he
3:21
Speaker 3: articulated it much much better tonight than he did in
3:24
Speaker 3: the first debate that that's why I think Ron de
3:26
Speaker 3: Santus won tonight.
3:27
Speaker 2: You know, he mentioned that that you know, there's we've
3:29
Speaker 2: lost the last three times. As he described it, right,
3:31
Speaker 2: we were supposed to win in the last midterm elections.
3:35
Speaker 2: We were supposed to win the election before that and
3:37
Speaker 2: the one before that, and we didn't. And and he
3:40
Speaker 2: he also compared in contrast as you mentioned, I think
3:43
Speaker 2: extremely well, and it clearly clicked I think with people watching.
3:46
Speaker 2: As I was watching it live, just like you were there,
3:49
Speaker 2: I was like, okay, this is this is one of
3:51
Speaker 2: those quasi moments where he was reminding people of history,
3:55
Speaker 2: like not only did we win when when the nation
3:58
Speaker 2: was losing, when the Republicans are losing on nights, we
4:02
Speaker 2: should have won, but we want it expanded in Florida.
4:06
Speaker 2: That was a potent moment to remind people that we
4:10
Speaker 2: should have control of the Senate right now and we
4:12
Speaker 2: don't because we had some bad candidate selection.
4:14
Speaker 1: Let's just be honest.
4:15
Speaker 3: Look, Republicans desperately want to win. The Biden record is
4:20
Speaker 3: an absolute train wreck. And I got to admit I
4:23
Speaker 3: lay awake at night in cold sweats that we will
4:27
Speaker 3: see the Democrats re elected in twenty twenty four. The
4:30
Speaker 3: damage they've done to the country in the last two
4:32
Speaker 3: and a half years, Holy cow, if they get another
4:34
Speaker 3: four what a bad outcome for the country. So, as
4:37
Speaker 3: I'm looking for a candidate, I want someone to can
4:39
Speaker 3: win the damn race. And in many ways that is
4:43
Speaker 3: Desantus's strongest argument. And in the first debate he didn't
4:47
Speaker 3: really make it, and he came a lot closer to
4:50
Speaker 3: making it tonight, so I think he did better as
4:52
Speaker 3: a result.
4:53
Speaker 2: Let's talk about the poll numbers coming out of this
4:55
Speaker 2: real quick, give me your predictions of who rises and
4:59
Speaker 2: who We had already had one candidate out of Arkansas
5:03
Speaker 2: who's fallen off the debate stage, did not qualify for
5:07
Speaker 2: this one. Everybody's goal is to make it to Miami
5:10
Speaker 2: to the next debate in what four or five weeks?
5:13
Speaker 1: That's obviously the center goal.
5:15
Speaker 2: But who helped themselves, who is going to go backwards
5:19
Speaker 2: and who could be in real trouble.
5:21
Speaker 3: Look, I think the ends of the debate stage we
5:24
Speaker 3: saw Asa Hutchison fall off. I think the ends of
5:27
Speaker 3: the debate stage are at real risk of being eliminated
5:31
Speaker 3: from the stage. Doug Bergham. His numbers, it's not clear
5:36
Speaker 3: that he qualified for tonight, but they allowed him on
5:38
Speaker 3: the stage. But I think his numbers, he's going to
5:41
Speaker 3: have to do a whole lot of movement to qualify
5:43
Speaker 3: for the next debate stage. I think Mike Pence, he's
5:46
Speaker 3: the vice president, former vice president of the United States.
5:49
Speaker 3: He's a good man, he's a friend. But I think
5:51
Speaker 3: he's right at the edge of not making the next debate. Also,
5:57
Speaker 3: narrowing the debate stage is a good thing this race,
6:02
Speaker 3: if there's going to be a real race. Look, in
6:04
Speaker 3: many ways, this is sort of like a basketball playoff,
6:10
Speaker 3: where it's a playoff to see who goes gets to
6:13
Speaker 3: go against Donald Trump. And I guess you can sort
6:15
Speaker 3: of think about it that Trump gets a bye. He's
6:17
Speaker 3: the former president, he's decided to skip the debates. So
6:21
Speaker 3: in some ways, ask.
6:22
Speaker 2: You this real quickly. Is that still you think the
6:24
Speaker 2: smart strategy? Obviously, I think was the right strategy for
6:28
Speaker 2: debate number one at the end of tonight, Was it
6:32
Speaker 2: also the right strategy for him to skip debate number two?
6:35
Speaker 3: Maybe maybe not. Look, I think he's enough ahead in
6:40
Speaker 3: the polls, the national polls, He's up forty plus points.
6:43
Speaker 3: I mean, that's a strong lead. And I think his
6:46
Speaker 3: his analysis, and it's not a crazy analysis, is he's
6:49
Speaker 3: so far ahead, why would he go and from his
6:53
Speaker 3: perspective elevate the other candidates. You know, you think about
6:56
Speaker 3: in twenty sixteen, you had two debates. You had the
6:59
Speaker 3: main debate and you had what everyone called the kid's table,
7:01
Speaker 3: which were the candidates that were at one and two percent,
7:04
Speaker 3: and very few people watch the kids table. What Trump
7:07
Speaker 3: has effectively done by skipping the debate is he's trying
7:10
Speaker 3: to turn everyone else into the kids table, like this
7:12
Speaker 3: is not the real candidates, He's the only candidate. I
7:15
Speaker 3: understand that strategy. That is a perfectly rational debate strategy.
7:19
Speaker 3: I will say, you know, Trump got popped a little
7:22
Speaker 3: more tonight than he did on the first night, and
7:25
Speaker 3: in particular, I think desanis hitting him on abortion in life.
7:30
Speaker 3: Look Trump's answer where he said it was a terrible
7:34
Speaker 3: thing that the state of Florida passed a law protecting life.
7:39
Speaker 3: That's an answer if you're talking to pro life activists
7:42
Speaker 3: in Iowa. I don't know how you defend that answer.
7:46
Speaker 3: And I think Trump did a good or rather dissantis
7:48
Speaker 3: did a good job of really holding Trump to account
7:51
Speaker 3: for it. Now, if he'd been there, Trump could have
7:52
Speaker 3: given it an answer. Trump would have presumably said, look,
7:55
Speaker 3: I'm the guy that appointed three justices that overturn Roe
7:58
Speaker 3: versus Wade. I mean, he would have made a forceful response.
8:01
Speaker 3: But he wasn't there. And that's one of the consequences
8:05
Speaker 3: of not being there is someone can take a swing,
8:08
Speaker 3: they can hit you, and there's not anyone there who's
8:13
Speaker 3: gonna respond or defend you. So there were several shots
8:15
Speaker 3: at Trump. I think that's the the two that hit
8:19
Speaker 3: in any material way where I think DeSantis's point on
8:23
Speaker 3: abortion hit. And I also think the general point about
8:27
Speaker 3: we want to win and what Dessanis argued is that
8:31
Speaker 3: he won in Florida while Trump supported candidates elsewhere we're losing.
8:36
Speaker 3: Those were two shots that scored some blood. Now do
8:40
Speaker 3: I expect major movements in the polls.
8:42
Speaker 4: No.
8:42
Speaker 3: I think the polls will be very similar next week
8:45
Speaker 3: to where they are this week. So I don't think
8:47
Speaker 3: you're going to see a dramatic move. But I think
8:50
Speaker 3: Desanis took a meaningful step towards making this a two
8:56
Speaker 3: man race, and the only conceivable way anyone has a
9:00
Speaker 3: shot at beating Trump is for this to be a
9:02
Speaker 3: two men raise, and I think this was a step
9:05
Speaker 3: in that direction.
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Speaker 2: center about age on the stage. There was a very
10:40
Speaker 2: interesting dynamic on the stage where the elder statesman at
10:43
Speaker 2: the far right was Mike Pence. If you were watching
10:47
Speaker 2: the instant responses on social media, there were some people
10:50
Speaker 2: that felt that he came across as maybe a little
10:52
Speaker 2: bit too condescending to others on the stage. Some referred
10:56
Speaker 2: to it as the Washington not it all arrogance. And
10:59
Speaker 2: then you had the who had a pretty good debate
11:02
Speaker 2: last time. I don't think he had as good of
11:03
Speaker 2: a debate this time, that's my opinion. And you know,
11:06
Speaker 2: he was getting hit from all sides tonight, a lot
11:09
Speaker 2: of people attacking him on maybe some of his naivete
11:12
Speaker 2: on things like China, and he even said, look, sometimes
11:16
Speaker 2: I come across as and know it all, almost accepting.
11:19
Speaker 1: That about him.
11:20
Speaker 2: Your reaction to that dynamic of two very different people
11:23
Speaker 2: at very different stages in their career.
11:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, Vivek had a much rougher night tonight than
11:31
Speaker 3: he did in the first debate. First debate, he did excellent.
11:34
Speaker 3: He surprised a lot of people. He got on a
11:36
Speaker 3: lot of people's radar. He really did well tonight. Look,
11:42
Speaker 3: the other candidates don't like Vivec and they did not
11:45
Speaker 3: hide that they were taking shots at him, and it
11:48
Speaker 3: was that there was some pretty sneering moments. I do
11:51
Speaker 3: think that the shot that scored the most was the
11:55
Speaker 3: argument that several candidates made, that Nikki Haley made, that
11:58
Speaker 3: Tim Scott made about being in bed with communist China,
12:03
Speaker 3: and they made some pretty specific allegations of him being
12:07
Speaker 3: paid by the same players that paid Hunter.
12:10
Speaker 2: Biden five million by the way, paid to Hunter Biden
12:13
Speaker 2: five million dollars, the same people, which when when you
12:16
Speaker 2: hear that on stage, that's a that's a big for me,
12:18
Speaker 2: a red flag, right.
12:19
Speaker 3: And Vivek did not have a good answer to that.
12:22
Speaker 3: He he he just he didn't respond on the substance,
12:25
Speaker 3: he just said, well, well, we need to follow Ronald
12:29
Speaker 3: Reagan's eleventh commandment, so don't criticize me. And and and
12:31
Speaker 3: I got to say in the last debate, Vivek did
12:36
Speaker 3: not follow Ronald Reagan's eleventh commandment. And I will say,
12:40
Speaker 3: to Tim Scott's credit, Tim's best moment was when he
12:43
Speaker 3: turned to him and said, hold on a second, Vivek,
12:45
Speaker 3: you said every one of us is bought and paid for.
12:49
Speaker 3: Who the hell are you to say that. That was
12:50
Speaker 3: a good moment for Tim because it really was a
12:53
Speaker 3: pretty obnoxious thing for Vivek to say to allege that
12:57
Speaker 3: the other candidates are bought and paid for. And if
12:59
Speaker 3: you're gonna do that, if you're gonna say to the
13:01
Speaker 3: other candidates, you guys are all prostitutes, you don't get
13:05
Speaker 3: to complain moments later, Hey, don't criticize me, be nice
13:08
Speaker 3: to me. We shouldn't be be criticizing each other. And
13:11
Speaker 3: so I think that, uh.
13:15
Speaker 2: That was almost one of the big inexperienced moments when
13:18
Speaker 2: I laugh when people say I want a new face
13:19
Speaker 2: who hadn't done this before, and I'm like, until you don't.
13:23
Speaker 2: And my point is sometimes experience in politics is actually important,
13:27
Speaker 2: and it's important especially when you get elected. It's really
13:31
Speaker 2: important when you're dealing with foreign leaders and world leaders
13:33
Speaker 2: at a very high level, when you're dealing with negotiations.
13:37
Speaker 2: If you've never been there before, this whole idea of oh,
13:40
Speaker 2: I'm the new guy in the block, it's cute until
13:42
Speaker 2: it's not.
13:44
Speaker 3: Look, I think the job of president of the United
13:46
Speaker 3: States is a very serious position. I think the burdens
13:49
Speaker 3: of it are enormous. There's a reason why just about
13:51
Speaker 3: every president who's ever served seems to age about twenty
13:54
Speaker 3: years in the job. It is an insanely difficult job.
13:57
Speaker 4: You know.
13:57
Speaker 3: I'm reminded of when Trump was newly elected, and I
14:03
Speaker 3: think it was March of twenty seventeen. Trump had heiding
14:07
Speaker 3: and me and the girls to the White House for
14:10
Speaker 3: dinner and it was a marvelous time. It was very
14:12
Speaker 3: nice of him to invite them, and we brought our
14:14
Speaker 3: girls there and as we're walking, we're walking by the
14:17
Speaker 3: Rose Garden, Trump looks at me and says, Wow, who
14:20
Speaker 3: knew this job was so tough? And I got to
14:24
Speaker 3: admit I was. I am rarely at a loss for words.
14:27
Speaker 3: I was genuinely flabbergasted. I was like, yes, some of
14:33
Speaker 3: us kind of had that idea. I mean it was
14:35
Speaker 3: really a kind of And listen, don't take that comment wrong.
14:41
Speaker 3: I think when Trump was president, we accomplished an enormous amount.
14:45
Speaker 3: But I also think this is a job that requires
14:49
Speaker 3: a seriousness of purpose, a seriousness of execution, on ability
14:54
Speaker 3: to communicate, to motivate, to get the job done, and
15:00
Speaker 3: it is a I am generally skeptical of any candidate
15:04
Speaker 3: who's never served in in any government position waking up
15:10
Speaker 3: and saying, you know, I should be president of the
15:12
Speaker 3: United States other than generals who won World Wars that
15:19
Speaker 3: there's not a great history of that.
15:21
Speaker 1: Yeah.
15:21
Speaker 2: Great point when you look at this moving forward and
15:25
Speaker 2: you sit there and you go, okay, I'm Donald Trump tonight. Afterwards,
15:29
Speaker 2: I'm obviously going to watch this thing he did his
15:32
Speaker 2: counterprogramming with you know, uaw et cetera. But afterwards, eventually
15:36
Speaker 2: you're gonna sit down, You're gonna take a look at this.
15:38
Speaker 2: Are you uneasy or do you still feel very confident
15:41
Speaker 2: that you're still going to have a forty point lead
15:43
Speaker 2: after all this?
15:44
Speaker 3: Oh, look, I think Trump will still have a big, big, lead,
15:48
Speaker 3: but he's not happy that DeSantis did well. Trump would
15:51
Speaker 3: have been very happy if if Ron De Santis had
15:54
Speaker 3: sucked tonight, because as long as they're a bunch of candidates.
15:58
Speaker 3: It's why in Debate one, I said the biggest winner
16:00
Speaker 3: in Debate one was Donald Trump, because if there are
16:03
Speaker 3: two or three or four people on the stage that
16:05
Speaker 3: are gaining a pointer or two, he's winning. As long
16:08
Speaker 3: as that field is fractured, he's winning. If DeSantis gets
16:13
Speaker 3: some real momentum, if he makes it more of a
16:15
Speaker 3: two man race, that's not ideal for Trump. And so
16:19
Speaker 3: I'm confident Trump is not happy about that aspect. I
16:23
Speaker 3: do think the next debate we will see one or
16:26
Speaker 3: two people eliminated from the stage. I think the smaller
16:29
Speaker 3: it gets, the more of a threat it poses to
16:33
Speaker 3: Trump and everyone in the media who is saying this
16:36
Speaker 3: race is over. Listen. That is at least a historical
16:40
Speaker 3: at this point. At this point in the race, we're
16:43
Speaker 3: still in September before the election. At this point in
16:46
Speaker 3: the race, Jeb Bush was still the dominant leader. He
16:48
Speaker 3: was starting to fade, and Scott Walker was becoming the
16:51
Speaker 3: dominant leader. In twenty sixteen, after Walker, you had a
16:57
Speaker 3: Ben Carson moment where he says for about two weeks
17:01
Speaker 3: he had a huge surge, and then after that you
17:04
Speaker 3: had Marco Rubio. And at the end of the day,
17:07
Speaker 3: if you look at twenty sixteen, Trump and I went
17:11
Speaker 3: head to head, we were one and two in almost
17:13
Speaker 3: every single state. No other candidate won more than a
17:16
Speaker 3: single state Kasikua, Ohio, Rubio one Minnesota, and Trump and
17:21
Speaker 3: I won every other state in the country. I won
17:23
Speaker 3: twelve states, He won the rest of them. So my
17:26
Speaker 3: point is, the people who were dominant leaders in the
17:29
Speaker 3: polls today in the twenty sixteen cycle did not win
17:35
Speaker 3: a single state. So the world can change a lot.
17:39
Speaker 3: That being said, Trump is still in a very strong position.
17:42
Speaker 3: I mean, a forty point lead in the polls is
17:44
Speaker 3: not nothing. It just doesn't mean the race is over.
17:47
Speaker 3: As some in the media are wont to say.
17:50
Speaker 1: Let's talk about foreign policy.
17:52
Speaker 2: I actually was a little bit disappointed in the depth
17:56
Speaker 2: of that conversation, and I want to get your reaction
18:00
Speaker 2: to it. There was obviously a lot of talk about China,
18:02
Speaker 2: specifically with Vivek, but then you deal with Ukraine and
18:06
Speaker 2: you deal with border. The border issue, for example, it
18:09
Speaker 2: didn't seem to have a lot of depth there that
18:12
Speaker 2: I think many people were hoping for.
18:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, there wasn't a whole lot of substance. There wasn't
18:18
Speaker 3: a whole lot of analysis of what caused the border crisis.
18:22
Speaker 3: I don't think any of those candidates have spent significant
18:26
Speaker 3: time at our southern border. I didn't get the sense
18:28
Speaker 3: that any of them fully understood it. You didn't have
18:31
Speaker 3: an explanation as to the to the real human tragedy
18:35
Speaker 3: that our crisis of the southern border is and why
18:37
Speaker 3: Joe Biden is directly responsible for it. Look, I will
18:41
Speaker 3: say Chris Christie, Chris Christi is the one candidate on
18:44
Speaker 3: that stage who attacks Trump and does so repeatedly. I
18:49
Speaker 3: don't think he helped himself a whole lot tonight. So,
18:52
Speaker 3: for example, one of his big attacks on Trump, and
18:54
Speaker 3: he's been doing this on Twitter before, is he says
18:57
Speaker 3: Trump didn't build the wall and he didn't make Mexico
19:00
Speaker 3: pay for it. Now, look, I get that's probably a
19:03
Speaker 3: pretty good line if you're dealing with hedge fund owners
19:06
Speaker 3: and donors, but it's a stupid policy attack. Look, there
19:11
Speaker 3: are things that I wish Trump had done differently as president,
19:15
Speaker 3: but on immigration, his record on immigration is excellent. And
19:21
Speaker 3: when Trump left the White House, we had the lowest
19:25
Speaker 3: rate of illegal immigration in forty five years. He negotiated
19:29
Speaker 3: the Remain in Mexico Agreement. The Remain in Mexico Agreement worked,
19:32
Speaker 3: It worked spectacularly well. Joe Biden inherited an incredible success
19:38
Speaker 3: on illegal immigration, and Joe Biden deliberately blew it up
19:42
Speaker 3: within days of becoming president. And so I think Christy
19:45
Speaker 3: attacking Trump. Look, do I wish he'd built more border wall, sure,
19:50
Speaker 3: but not acknowledging that on securing the border. Donald Trump
19:55
Speaker 3: did more to secure the border than any president we
19:58
Speaker 3: have had in our nation's history, and in any candidate.
20:01
Speaker 3: Not saying that is being dishonest. So if you want
20:04
Speaker 3: to find grounds to disagree with Trump, fine, but that attack.
20:09
Speaker 3: I don't know of a Republican voter who's persuaded by
20:13
Speaker 3: that attack, unless it's someone that already hates Trump, and
20:16
Speaker 3: then they're like, yeah, yeah, Mexico didn't pay for it.
20:18
Speaker 3: It's like, come on, guys, I mean, he did more
20:21
Speaker 3: than anyone else has ever done, and the results were
20:24
Speaker 3: really good.
20:25
Speaker 2: And look, yeah, he was clearly trying Chris Christy was
20:29
Speaker 2: clearly trying to have a moment. I want to play
20:31
Speaker 2: that because it was a very interesting part of the
20:32
Speaker 2: debate you just mentioned it. Here is Chris Christy, in
20:35
Speaker 2: his own words.
20:36
Speaker 5: Governor Christie, as governor of a non border state in
20:40
Speaker 5: twenty ten, you supported a path to citizenship, but when
20:44
Speaker 5: you run for president in twenty sixteen you flipped saying
20:48
Speaker 5: immigrants should be trucked like Edix packages. Where do you
20:53
Speaker 5: stand now on a path to citizenship for eleven million
20:57
Speaker 5: of on the commented immigrants.
20:58
Speaker 4: The problem is that since no one has done anything
21:01
Speaker 4: since we first had this discussion thirteen years ago, we're
21:05
Speaker 4: not in a position to be able to do any
21:06
Speaker 4: of that anymore. What we have to do now is
21:09
Speaker 4: first treat this like the law enforcement problem. It is.
21:13
Speaker 4: Our laws are being broken every day at the southern
21:15
Speaker 4: border every day, and Joe Biden and his crew is
21:19
Speaker 4: doing nothing about enforcing that law.
21:21
Speaker 1: They are letting it go.
21:22
Speaker 4: And by the way, they announced during the presidential race
21:24
Speaker 4: that we're going to.
21:25
Speaker 1: Let it go.
21:26
Speaker 4: And we need to have a president who acts like
21:30
Speaker 4: I did as governor, enforce the law first and foremost.
21:35
Speaker 4: And that means what I'll do on day one is
21:38
Speaker 4: sign an executive order to send the National Guard to
21:41
Speaker 4: partner with Customs and Border Patrol to make sure that
21:44
Speaker 4: we stop the flow of fentanyl over the border, but
21:47
Speaker 4: also to make sure that we send a much different message.
21:50
Speaker 4: We want you here in this country to fill the
21:53
Speaker 4: six million vacant jobs we have, but only if you
21:56
Speaker 4: come here to follow the law, and only if you
21:58
Speaker 4: come here legally. Come here illegally, we will apprehend you
22:02
Speaker 4: and we will send you back across the border from
22:05
Speaker 4: which you came. And the fact is that until we
22:08
Speaker 4: set a lawn order agenda in this country, not only
22:11
Speaker 4: now but in the future, we won't be able to
22:13
Speaker 4: continue this. And I'll look, I'll tell you this. Donald
22:16
Speaker 4: Trump failed on this as well. He said he was
22:19
Speaker 4: going to build a wall across the whole border. He
22:21
Speaker 4: built fifty two miles a wall and said.
22:23
Speaker 1: Mexico would pay for it.
22:24
Speaker 4: Guess what I think if Mexico knew that he was
22:27
Speaker 4: only going to build fifty two miles, they might have
22:28
Speaker 4: paid for the fifty two miles.
22:30
Speaker 2: But by the way, let center, if he would have
22:34
Speaker 2: just stopped before he took the cheap shot at Trump,
22:36
Speaker 2: which I don't think landed with anybody that was watching,
22:39
Speaker 2: certainly not Trump supporters. It would have actually been a
22:41
Speaker 2: pretty decent response to the question.
22:44
Speaker 3: Yeah. Look, there is not a single human being on
22:47
Speaker 3: planet Earth that thinks Chris Christie would be better on
22:51
Speaker 3: stopping illegal immigration than Donald Trump was.
22:54
Speaker 1: There just isn't.
22:56
Speaker 3: The question began with, gosh, you flip flopped and you've
23:00
Speaker 3: embraced amnesty repeatedly in your career, and Chris Christy built
23:03
Speaker 3: his career as a blue state governor and a liberal,
23:06
Speaker 3: demoderate Republican and so the attack. Look, I think in
23:11
Speaker 3: debates and in politics, truth and authenticity matters that when
23:16
Speaker 3: you have when you make a point that's from the heart,
23:20
Speaker 3: that's real, that can land. And so it's why I
23:22
Speaker 3: think Dessantus's point about we need to win and we
23:26
Speaker 3: didn't win the way we should have in twenty eighteen,
23:28
Speaker 3: twenty twenty and twenty twenty two, that's a real argument.
23:31
Speaker 3: That's something primary voters are like, holy crap, we can't
23:34
Speaker 3: lose in twenty four and I'm a little bit nervous.
23:37
Speaker 3: I don't want us to lose, Like that's an argument
23:39
Speaker 3: that has some teeth. The argument that Trump didn't care
23:43
Speaker 3: enough about securing the border. It's just not true. And
23:47
Speaker 3: I don't think it hurts any of the candidates to
23:51
Speaker 3: acknowledge truth and reality to say, yeah, look, I mean,
23:55
Speaker 3: we had some real successes on securing the borders. There're
23:59
Speaker 3: more to do, sure, but you didn't have anyone explain
24:02
Speaker 3: what caused this crisis was the decision one decision from
24:07
Speaker 3: Joe Biden, which is to embrace catch and release, so
24:11
Speaker 3: that now when illegal immigrants are apprehended, they let them
24:15
Speaker 3: go and they don't deport them. As long as you
24:17
Speaker 3: do that, you cannot solve the problem. That means the
24:20
Speaker 3: next president. If you simply say, if you cross into
24:23
Speaker 3: this country illegally, we will catch you, we will put
24:26
Speaker 3: you on a plane, and we will fly you back
24:29
Speaker 3: to your damn country, that's the answer. That's how you
24:32
Speaker 3: secure the border. And you didn't have anyone with that clarity.
24:36
Speaker 3: But I think Christie's answer on that it didn't land
24:41
Speaker 3: because it was hitting Trump in an area of strength
24:43
Speaker 3: and not an area of weakness.
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Speaker 1: Senator.
26:23
Speaker 2: I also want to talk about China and fetanyl for
26:25
Speaker 2: a moment. You've talked a lot about fetanyl and the
26:28
Speaker 2: issue at the border. This did seem to be something
26:32
Speaker 2: that Republicans agreed on that we have a big problem.
26:35
Speaker 1: The issue is how do you fight back.
26:37
Speaker 2: Nikki Haley said, time to go to war economically with China.
26:41
Speaker 1: As she described it, until they.
26:43
Speaker 2: Stopped sending all the fetanyl into this country that's killing Americans.
26:46
Speaker 2: She described it as they're at war with us. They're
26:48
Speaker 2: taking our stealing our intellectual property. They're stealing everything then
26:52
Speaker 2: get their hands on from us. They're setting up spy
26:55
Speaker 2: bases in Cuba. They've done countless things that compromises countries,
26:59
Speaker 2: spybal over this country as well, and this president clearly
27:03
Speaker 2: seems to be compromise and cannot stand up to China.
27:06
Speaker 2: I think we can all agree on that, but there
27:08
Speaker 2: did seem to be a sent on stage that hey,
27:11
Speaker 2: it's time to go on offense and to stop letting
27:14
Speaker 2: China run all over us.
27:16
Speaker 3: Well, look, you know it's interesting. You just said a
27:18
Speaker 3: minute ago in your question you said this President Joe
27:21
Speaker 3: Biden has compromised on China. It was interesting. There was
27:24
Speaker 3: not a word said tonight about Biden's corruption, about the
27:29
Speaker 3: WHI was shocking, and there was very little said about
27:32
Speaker 3: Biden's record. There was very little said. What I found curious,
27:39
Speaker 3: and it's why I think most of the candidates did
27:41
Speaker 3: not have a great night tonight. There was very little
27:44
Speaker 3: said about why they were the best candidate to beat
27:47
Speaker 3: Donald Trump. And in the primary, that's the only question
27:50
Speaker 3: is who can win the primary, And there was very
27:53
Speaker 3: little said about why they were the best candidate to
27:55
Speaker 3: beat Joe Biden. And at the end of the day,
27:58
Speaker 3: that's what Republican primary voters are looking for. And it
28:01
Speaker 3: was it was odd. When it came to Trump, most
28:08
Speaker 3: of the candidates seem to forget that he existed, and
28:11
Speaker 3: when it came to Joe Biden, by and large, most
28:14
Speaker 3: of the candidates for god he existed, and you're trying
28:18
Speaker 3: to prosecute a case. You're trying to make the case
28:21
Speaker 3: that I'm the guy or I'm the gal to take
28:24
Speaker 3: us to victory. And on China, look, there was some
28:29
Speaker 3: rhetoric China's bad, China's bad, China's bad, But what we
28:33
Speaker 3: didn't hear from anybody was a systematic, comprehensive plan to
28:38
Speaker 3: how do we beat China. And I believe I've talked
28:40
Speaker 3: about this a lot, that we need the sword of
28:44
Speaker 3: systematic plan that Reagan had to win the Cold War,
28:48
Speaker 3: a plan that takes on that that combats China's lies.
28:52
Speaker 3: It's murder, its torture, it's genocide, it's espionage, it's theft,
28:55
Speaker 3: its propaganda that goes after China, and there was very
28:59
Speaker 3: little said about how specifically.
29:02
Speaker 4: We do that.
29:02
Speaker 3: There was some general rhetoric China bad, but not a
29:06
Speaker 3: whole lot of substance. So therefore, what.
29:11
Speaker 2: I was shocked by what you just mentioned, and let's
29:13
Speaker 2: dive into this for a moment. I think it was
29:15
Speaker 2: a huge mistake to not bring up the big breaking
29:19
Speaker 2: news that you and I broke on this podcast yesterday
29:24
Speaker 2: in a.
29:24
Speaker 3: Quarter million dollars sent to Joe Biden's house.
29:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, from Beijing, and no one mentioned it. On top
29:29
Speaker 2: of the fact that it broke after we did that
29:32
Speaker 2: show that based on the Plea deal agreement that was
29:36
Speaker 2: given by David Weiss, it said in that plea agreement
29:40
Speaker 2: that during the time that payment was made, the residence
29:44
Speaker 2: for Hunter Biden was in California.
29:46
Speaker 1: That's in the plea agreement.
29:48
Speaker 2: That came out as kind of like, hey, if you
29:49
Speaker 2: think that he was living in this house, that's the
29:52
Speaker 2: same residents of the President of the United States of America,
29:55
Speaker 2: you know, in Delaware, you're wrong. The plea agreement said
29:59
Speaker 2: during the time, and it also came out afterwards Center
30:02
Speaker 2: that in his own book that Hunter Biden wrote, he
30:05
Speaker 2: also said his book that he was living in California
30:08
Speaker 2: at the time that wire transfer would have come through.
30:11
Speaker 2: So there's even a bigger problem there, and no one
30:14
Speaker 2: said anything about it on stage. That was a huge mistake,
30:17
Speaker 2: I think for all of them.
30:19
Speaker 3: Well, if you think about any moment, and this was
30:23
Speaker 3: a long debate, this was a two hour debate and
30:25
Speaker 3: by the way, I got to say, there's something weird
30:27
Speaker 3: about the debate at the Reagan Library. So in twenty sixteen,
30:30
Speaker 3: we had a debate at the Reagan Library, right on
30:32
Speaker 3: the stage where they were, and the twenty sixteen debate
30:36
Speaker 3: that was the CNN debate, and it went three hours.
30:38
Speaker 3: It was the longest debate of the entire cycle. And
30:42
Speaker 3: I remember, I don't know if this was true tonight,
30:45
Speaker 3: but in twenty sixteen, the Reagan Library did not have
30:48
Speaker 3: air conditioning that was made to survive the cleague lights
30:53
Speaker 3: of a television debate, and so it was hot.
30:56
Speaker 2: And that many warm bodies in the room. People don't
30:58
Speaker 2: realize as rooms get hot and you have that many
31:00
Speaker 2: people in there.
31:01
Speaker 3: There was a whole audience of people that there are
31:04
Speaker 3: bright lights. I remember by the third hour, we were
31:07
Speaker 3: drenched in sweat and I was standing there. I was
31:10
Speaker 3: actually standing, Mike Huckabee was next to me, Marco Rubio
31:14
Speaker 3: was next to me. Actually, Marco, to his credit, had
31:17
Speaker 3: a handkerchief which which he let both Huckabee and me
31:20
Speaker 3: use because we were both sweating like crazy, and it
31:23
Speaker 3: was by hour three. It was unpleasant. Now, the good
31:26
Speaker 3: news is I think there were six people in the
31:28
Speaker 3: entire world that stayed up to watch the third hour
31:31
Speaker 3: of that debate, So it didn't matter that we all
31:33
Speaker 3: looked like we were drowning in our own sweat. I
31:37
Speaker 3: couldn't tell if they had the same issue this time,
31:40
Speaker 3: but I will say in two hours, it was striking
31:45
Speaker 3: that there was not really an effective case made. Here's
31:50
Speaker 3: how we beat Joe Biden and that matters a lot.
31:53
Speaker 3: Nor was there an effective case. You know, Dana Prino
31:55
Speaker 3: tried to get to it when she said, Okay, write
31:58
Speaker 3: down on your piece of paper who you're going to
32:00
Speaker 3: vote off the island. And by the way, I will
32:02
Speaker 3: credit the candidates for all of them saying no, we're
32:04
Speaker 3: not playing that kind of BS game. That was the
32:07
Speaker 3: right response for them to say no. But even though
32:11
Speaker 3: you don't write on a card, you're not playing Jeopardy.
32:15
Speaker 3: There wasn't really anyone making the case other than the Santis,
32:18
Speaker 3: which is why I think he won tonight. There wasn't
32:21
Speaker 3: really anyone making the case I'm the right standard bearer
32:25
Speaker 3: to win the primary, and I'm the right standard bearer
32:27
Speaker 3: to win the general and here's how and why.
32:31
Speaker 1: Yeah.
32:31
Speaker 2: There was also a lot of missus people said, at
32:34
Speaker 2: least in response online, that this debate was on Univision
32:38
Speaker 2: and they didn't feel like the candidates did a good
32:40
Speaker 2: enough job reaching out to Hispanic voters.
32:43
Speaker 1: Your reaction to that as well.
32:45
Speaker 3: Look, I think they did almost nothing. I mean to
32:49
Speaker 3: Hispanic voters. Listen, the Hispanic community. Our community is fundamentally conservative.
32:55
Speaker 3: It is culturally conservative. You look at the values that
32:58
Speaker 3: resonate in the Hispanic CAAs community.
33:00
Speaker 1: Family oriented, very family oriented.
33:03
Speaker 3: Family faith, patriotism, hard work, the American dream. Those are
33:09
Speaker 3: values that are fundamentally conservative. You didn't see anyone saying,
33:12
Speaker 3: you know what, you want to talk about the Hispanic community.
33:14
Speaker 3: The Hispanic community in South Texas and in California and
33:18
Speaker 3: Arizona's getting hammered by seven point six million illegal immigrants.
33:22
Speaker 3: By the way, every candidate tonight got the number wrong.
33:25
Speaker 3: They all said six million. Your numbers or are a
33:28
Speaker 3: million and a half off. It's up to seven point six.
33:31
Speaker 3: The candidates should get their numbers right. But they didn't
33:34
Speaker 3: talk about the misery that is being imposed on the
33:38
Speaker 3: Hispanic community by this crisis of illegal immigration. They didn't
33:41
Speaker 3: talk about Hispanic families that are getting hammered by rising inflation.
33:45
Speaker 3: They didn't talk about Hispanic families that are getting hammered
33:48
Speaker 3: by rising crime rates. They didn't talk extensively about the
33:53
Speaker 3: Democrat efforts to defund the police and George Soros prosecutors.
33:58
Speaker 1: They had some of that.
33:58
Speaker 3: Actually, their discussion of crime, there was some decent moments.
34:03
Speaker 3: But the point you just made, Ben, nobody connected it
34:07
Speaker 3: to the Hispanic community. No one connected it to the
34:09
Speaker 3: African American community. And that's a point that I think
34:12
Speaker 3: is important to make that I hope in subsequent debates
34:16
Speaker 3: we get people making more clearly.
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Speaker 2: was another moment, and it's it's a viral moment. I understand,
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Speaker 2: and you can explain this. You want a moment. Every
35:47
Speaker 2: candidate wants a moment when they're on stage and they
35:50
Speaker 2: want to have these big moments that are talked about.
35:53
Speaker 2: Nicky Haley tried to land one against the deck and
35:56
Speaker 2: this is what it sounded like.
35:58
Speaker 3: Every time I hear you, I feel a little bit
36:00
Speaker 3: dumber for what you say.
36:01
Speaker 1: I don't think that landed the way she was hoping.
36:04
Speaker 2: It didn't come across to me as I was watching
36:07
Speaker 2: it is this you know, big moment. I get that
36:10
Speaker 2: what she was trying to accomplish. Was that a mistake?
36:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a mistake. It that moment was harsh
36:18
Speaker 3: and it seemed too harsh. Look, look, Haley's a talented candidate.
36:22
Speaker 3: She's a talented communicator. She's one of the best communicators
36:25
Speaker 3: on that stage. She had a really good night in
36:28
Speaker 3: the first debate. This one was not nearly as good.
36:31
Speaker 3: That shot was mean spirited, it wasn't substantive in a debate,
36:36
Speaker 3: I think you're almost always better disagreeing with someone on
36:39
Speaker 3: substance rather than just sort of one line at hominem attacks.
36:44
Speaker 3: And by the way, look, you can disagree with Evey
36:47
Speaker 3: because you could say that he doesn't have the experience
36:49
Speaker 3: to be president. You could disagree with him on policy,
36:52
Speaker 3: but the guy's not dumb. He's a smart guy. So
36:56
Speaker 3: the claim every time I listen to you, I feel
36:59
Speaker 3: dumber like that, that is a pretty condescending comment. That
37:04
Speaker 3: going back to my point before, in a debate, you
37:08
Speaker 3: want truth and authenticity, you want the words coming out
37:10
Speaker 3: of your mouth for people to say, yeah, yeah, that's right, Yeah,
37:12
Speaker 3: I agree with that, and I don't think very many
37:15
Speaker 3: people agreed with that, and so it diminished her more
37:19
Speaker 3: than it diminished Vivek. Now, I do think the other
37:23
Speaker 3: candidates on that stage are pretty chippy towards Vivek because
37:26
Speaker 3: he was pretty condescending and nasty to them in debate
37:28
Speaker 3: number one, and he made him shine. But there's some
37:32
Speaker 3: grudges that were playing out tonight. I'll also point out
37:34
Speaker 3: there that there were moments when when Nicki Haley and
37:37
Speaker 3: Tim Scott were going at each other and they were
37:39
Speaker 3: just yelling at each other, back and forth and back
37:41
Speaker 3: and forth, and it was kind of a South Carolina
37:45
Speaker 3: pissing fight, and my take on it, that didn't really
37:50
Speaker 3: help either one of them. It was too parochial. I
37:53
Speaker 3: don't know that a whole lot of people care about
37:56
Speaker 3: the internescine fights in South Carolina. And I think the
38:02
Speaker 3: effect of it is that both of them seem to
38:05
Speaker 3: be taking their eye off the ball, that the objective
38:09
Speaker 3: is first to win the primary and then to beat
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Speaker 3: Joe Biden in the general. And I think that back
38:13
Speaker 3: and forth bickering didn't help either one of them in
38:16
Speaker 3: that respect.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's gonna be very interesting to see who gets
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Speaker 2: kicked off that stage come Miami in the next debate there.
38:24
Speaker 1: Don't forget.
38:25
Speaker 2: If you missed our big podcast yesterday, go back and
38:28
Speaker 2: listen to it. We talked about those payments coming into
38:31
Speaker 2: the Biden crime family from Beijing. That news is still
38:35
Speaker 2: not being covered by the media. If you missed it,
38:39
Speaker 2: make sure you go back and listen to that as well,
38:42
Speaker 2: and share it on social media. Also in the in
38:45
Speaker 2: between days between Verdict, and make sure you down with
38:47
Speaker 2: my show, The Ben Ferguson podcasts as well. I'll keep
38:49
Speaker 2: you update on the breaking news in between Verdict shows
38:52
Speaker 2: and we'll see you back here in a couple of days.