Latest / Spinning the Light Podcast / Chelsea Reddell; New Beginnings

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Chelsea Reddell; New Beginnings · Spinning the Light Podcast

0:02
Hello and welcome to two girls in the pod.
0:04
I'm Sharon. I'm Christy.
0:06
We have a guest on today, Chelsea Riddell, who is a peer
0:10
Recovery support specialist with Face It Together All.
0:15
Right. Y'all, we practice that.
0:17
Yes, welcome. Yes, thank you so much for
0:20
having me on today. I'm so excited to be here.
0:23
For those who don't know what that whole big title is, what
0:27
does that mean? Yes.
0:29
So a peer recovery support specialist that we're
0:32
individuals that work in mental health or addiction, we kind of
0:36
fall somewhere in between what would be.
0:40
So we just kind of fall somewhere in between what would
0:42
look like a like a 12 step sponsor and maybe more of that
0:46
clinical therapeutic side. We're just like right there in
0:49
the middle. So we are not therapists, we're
0:51
not psychologists. We use our personally lived
0:54
experience and get certification.
0:57
I'm on a national and state. Level to help those individuals
1:00
with their addiction and more of like a peer-to-peer.
1:03
Level okay. So when you say that it's kind
1:07
of having you kind of live the life a little bit, is that what
1:10
I'm hearing as far as addiction? Yes.
1:13
So part of the certification is you are in recovery yourself.
1:17
So for me I both. Experienced addiction and I have
1:22
experienced as a loved one side as well.
1:25
So you go through all of that lived experiences and then you
1:28
use that to get others to connect so we can get down to
1:32
the bottom of you know what's going on with.
1:34
Them as well. Well, I think always, you know
1:36
when we do dual diagnosis it's always hard you know what which
1:40
came first and I think that sometimes that makes it
1:43
difficult because sometimes I think it's not a matter of.
1:47
Trying to figure out what comes first.
1:48
It's just a matter of being present with somebody in order
1:51
for them to tell their story, because you're going to find a
1:54
kind of muddle through it anyway and figure it out, you know what
1:57
I mean? Yeah, absolutely.
1:59
So you've been in recovery how long?
2:01
So it'll be four years in September.
2:03
Oh, congratulations. Thank you.
2:06
What? What got you the place of
2:07
recovery? So, you know, there was kind of
2:09
like a long history, really. When I was growing up, I learned
2:14
at a very young age that there was addiction in my family.
2:17
We had family members that were in and out of treatment, in and
2:21
out of the prison system, and we were very close with them, so we
2:26
knew a lot of what was going on. Whenever I was young, I was kind
2:30
of going through some things. I heard my parents fighting
2:33
often. I kind of saw we knew a little
2:36
bit too much information. I started coping and you know,
2:39
some unhealthy behaviors. I self harmed at a very young
2:43
age quickly developed an eating disorder.
2:46
By the time I was 21, I was drinking by myself every day.
2:50
I ended up finding a group of individuals that were also
2:53
drinking every day. And you know, we really kind of
2:56
latched on to each other. I actually found my husband and
2:59
that group. My husband also struggled with
3:01
addiction. He'll be four years in September
3:03
as well. What really happened is I was
3:07
focusing a lot on what was going on with him and I was neglecting
3:10
a lot of areas in my own personal life and my own
3:13
Wellness. And so I was putting all of my
3:16
focus on that, all of my focus on my friends and my family that
3:19
were struggling and I was going deeper and deeper and deeper
3:22
into my own struggles. My husband ended up having some
3:25
health complications and he ended up going to treatment.
3:30
And it was kind of during that time I was not in a good place,
3:34
and I got paired up with a drug and alcohol counselor.
3:38
And once I started talking with my counselor, I started
3:41
uncovering a lot of things that were going on in my life.
3:44
And then I got to start working on my own Wellness.
3:48
So it was a little bit of a push from my husband seeking his own
3:52
Wellness, and I just came face to face with.
3:55
Everything I've been running away from.
3:58
Isn't interesting. When you kind of come face to
4:00
face with it, you realize it's not as scary as you think.
4:03
No, seriously, You know, you kind of create this big bad wolf
4:06
kind of scenario in your life. And then when you go and you
4:11
actually face this little puppy of the corner that we just
4:13
manifest. But we do that, I think, often
4:16
because, you know, we don't learn those coping skills.
4:18
We don't learn that resiliency, especially when you grow up in
4:21
certain environments, when you grow up in an environment of
4:24
addiction. You don't learn resiliency.
4:27
The drug becomes the thing that helps you to cope on a daily
4:30
basis and stuff or suppress whatever else is going on.
4:33
You know what I mean? It's kind of funny though, but
4:36
you know, always tell people you know what would do drug and
4:38
alcohol. What are you afraid of?
4:41
What do you think that big bad thing is going to do to you?
4:43
Because it's already happened. Yeah.
4:46
It's not going to rehappen. You create it and make it
4:49
rehappen in your hand. And I think when you get into
4:51
recovery, I don't care whether it's from addictions or mental
4:54
health or whatever it is that's becomes that reality, you know.
4:58
And then when you can see it that way, then you are much more
5:03
successful in your recovery. I think anyway, I mean, but once
5:06
again, you know, I just did treatment on it.
5:09
No. No, I think that you're very
5:11
spot on there. We do have a tendency to make
5:14
things up very big. We build it up in her head
5:17
starts, you know, makes you start to lose some confidence in
5:19
yourself. You get insecure about some
5:22
things. I think stigmatization really
5:24
drives that fear factor there. But just like you said, once you
5:27
like come face to face with it and you almost, you know, you
5:30
haven't a choice to either tackle this or to stay doing
5:33
what you're doing, You know, that problem tends to get a
5:36
little bit smaller and smaller and smaller.
5:38
And more able to cope with it in a healthy way.
5:41
Did you find that I often, you know, when you see a lot of this
5:45
stuff or when I was working in it, it's kind of that thing of
5:49
and I'll hear that even still sometimes.
5:51
Well, you know, we have all colors in our family.
5:53
So therefore I'm kind of an, do you know what I mean?
5:56
It's kind of that thing that somebody has said and then it
5:59
becomes this truth and you kind of have the snowball effect to
6:03
it. It's like.
6:04
Oh, yeah. I'm part of that family, so.
6:05
Oh, yeah. And all my cousins aren't, you
6:07
know, my family's in prison, so I'm bound for prison or whatever
6:10
it is. It doesn't have to even be that
6:11
way. It could be something positive.
6:13
All my family's Dr. So I got to go be a doctor.
6:15
It doesn't matter what it is. There's still this idea that you
6:18
have to stay within that family system and those ideals of the
6:22
family system. Did you see that it with you as
6:26
well? Like, this is just what we do.
6:28
So yes and no. In my family, a lot of the.
6:33
Usage was with more illicit drug use, lots of heroin, meth,
6:39
things like that. Alcohol didn't really get
6:41
touched up on very much. So we were driving these factors
6:44
and these fears into us. And it was, well, don't do
6:49
heroin, don't do meth, keep a steady job, you know, go to
6:52
school, do all this stuff. And nobody ever touched up on
6:55
the alcohol factor. And it was always very
6:59
interesting because I never really thought I had any sort of
7:02
problem. Now, I was experimenting with
7:05
all kinds of drugs. I got addicted to some of them.
7:08
I definitely was very reliant on alcohol.
7:12
I had some of those other cooccurring disorders that were
7:14
happening. But in my mind frame, I was
7:18
thinking, well, I'm not in jail. I'm going to school.
7:21
I've have a steady job. Is someone okay?
7:24
You know, like, this is fine. And you know, it wasn't until my
7:28
husband and I actually. Found our Wellness that the rest
7:32
of the family was thinking, Oh no, we do have a problem with
7:36
alcohol here as well. Were you thinking it was because
7:41
if I'm drinking, I'm not doing all these other things, so
7:44
therefore I'm okay? Because it sounds like you were
7:47
a functioning addicts, as we call it.
7:49
You are still going and doing everything that you had to.
7:53
Yeah, right. And and you know that that
7:55
functioning alcoholic, that's always that interesting term to
7:58
me because that is kind of how I saw myself.
8:01
You know, we even made jokes about it like we're functioning,
8:04
it's fine. Like we're going through
8:05
daytoday life, but maybe I was going to.
8:09
Work. You know, maybe I was cooking my
8:11
family dinner, but I was also going to work with a hangover
8:14
every single day. You know, I was, my hangover was
8:17
really settling in at the in the middle of my work day because I
8:21
was still intoxicated from the previous night.
8:23
And as soon as I get off work, what's the first thing I'm
8:26
thinking of? Oh, I'm going to go home and I'm
8:29
going to pour myself a drink. I'm going to hang out with my
8:31
friends, go to sleep and do it all over again.
8:35
Let me ask you this, though, because I always often see this
8:37
too, you know, as you go into recovery, people who are not in
8:41
recovery, who are your friends either are trying to sabotage it
8:44
or it's oh, you think you're too good first now.
8:47
I mean, there's a lot of that stuff.
8:48
So how do you work around that too?
8:50
Because it does happen, whether it's your family system or your
8:53
friend, whatever that system is for you.
8:55
You know, that's a very important conversation that I
8:58
don't feel like we touch up on a whole lot.
9:01
It's hard, you know? And especially as an adult, it's
9:03
hard to make friends as an adult anyway.
9:06
And then once you throw that in, it's always seems to be a topic
9:09
of conversation. So with my personal friend
9:12
group, when my husband went to treatment, I was having friends
9:16
hand me glasses of wine and they were saying you're not the one
9:19
in treatment. Like, you deserve this.
9:21
Look at, look at all this hard stuff you're going through.
9:23
Just have a drink. It's OK.
9:25
And you know, I did feel that sabotaging.
9:28
My husband got a phone call while we were in there and his
9:30
best friend was saying, dude, what are you doing like that?
9:34
You're being dramatic. Just come home, you're okay,
9:37
we're just going to slow down a little bit.
9:39
And of course, some friends from that friend group, they've stuck
9:43
around, most of them haven't, So we definitely experienced that
9:48
sabotaging. Another thing that gets a little
9:51
tricky is people feel like they don't want to drink around you
9:56
or they want to. Tell you, oh, well, I don't
9:59
drink that much anymore. I don't.
10:01
I do this now, I do that. And you're just kind of seeing
10:04
that's only whenever you're around.
10:06
So it was like people are just trying to kind of change
10:08
themselves or get you to fit back into that box.
10:13
And that's really interesting. I I mean, I think there's a
10:17
difference with being courteous, you know, when you're around
10:20
somebody who has an addiction and being courteous by saying is
10:24
it okay if we have a glass of wine, we were with you or
10:26
whatever. And then waiting for the
10:28
response that they're like, sure, then you be who you are.
10:30
But I think a lot of times people just go, Oh my God,
10:33
coming over, hide all the alcohol or whatever.
10:36
Yeah. You know, I mean, I don't know.
10:39
I feel like that's probably what it is.
10:41
But I hear that And and the reason I said I, I joke.
10:43
But I, my clients would often say that, you know, when they're
10:47
alcoholic brother was coming over, Oh my God, go hide all the
10:50
alcohol or they get all mad when the brother drinks all the
10:53
alcohol. You know, it's either way.
10:55
It's still causing some kind of disruption in the life other
10:58
people. I think that, well, it would be
11:02
my guess that if you're looking at making that change, we were
11:05
talking about how big something looks or that that's probably
11:09
one of the fears about it is how is my life going to look
11:11
different, even though there are things I need to be different
11:14
because this isn't working the way that it is.
11:17
What does that mean? It's going to change for me as
11:19
far as, you know, the friends that I hang out with and all of
11:22
that kind of stuff. I would imagine that plays a
11:24
big. Part of that deciding to make
11:27
those changes. It does.
11:29
I mean, your environment plays a huge factor and just your
11:34
addiction, your behaviors in general.
11:36
I'm big on communication, so I've always liked to have these
11:40
talks with individuals. You know, I don't mind if
11:43
somebody drinks around me, but somebody else might mind.
11:46
So like, let's just talk about this stuff instead of everybody
11:49
having to change everything, you know, just for a couple of hours
11:52
or something, right? It is a big topic.
11:54
When my husband went to treatment, that's when we really
11:58
started to look at that and we were a little afraid.
12:00
So we're like, well, we're going to be boring now.
12:02
How are we going to have fun? Nobody wants to hang out with us
12:05
or talk us. What are we supposed to do?
12:06
We lived on a golf course. You know, we could walk to the
12:08
bar every single day. But we did.
12:11
We made some very big changes When he was in treatment.
12:14
I sold the house. And we moved to a different area
12:18
in the city, so we were kind of away from that.
12:20
We had to reevaluate some of our friendship groups, some hobbies,
12:25
just how we communicate with each other in general.
12:28
Becomes a pattern people don't understand is, you know, always
12:30
tell people when you're dealing with anything you're trying to
12:33
change. We just have to be talking about
12:34
addiction today. But I would tell people if I was
12:37
having to stop smoking cigarettes.
12:39
Go move your ashtray. What you are in a pattern of
12:42
behavior. Your body does it.
12:43
It's an automatic pilot. We do that when we're driving.
12:47
She'll be driving and I'm there like, we're not going to the
12:49
office. Oh okay.
12:51
She gets back in because you get into a rhythm and a pattern, and
12:57
most addictions or most things we do in life, there's a pattern
13:01
to it and we do it without thought.
13:04
Okay. So the only way to change it is
13:07
to change how you have to think about it.
13:09
So if I'm used to coming in sitting down, there's my
13:12
ashtray. I sit down and I smoke right in
13:14
that same spot, move the furniture, move the ashtray.
13:17
And then you come in there like, well, where's my ashtray and
13:20
people? But it seems simple, But it's
13:22
the start. It's not the end, but it is the
13:26
start. And that's kind of what you're
13:27
saying is when he went into treatment that shifted things
13:31
with your system, it was like. Perhaps he's in there?
13:34
What am I supposed to do? Yeah.
13:37
What propelled you to sell your home and to know to move
13:39
somewhere else? Yeah.
13:41
Well, so you know, like I mentioned, we lived on a golf
13:44
course and that it can be a very party type of atmosphere.
13:50
And the particular one we lived on was very, very ingrained in
13:55
that. And we were noticing that, you
13:58
know, when I would come home from work, I wasn't just coming
14:01
home, I was driving to the clubhouse.
14:03
And I was meeting my husband at the clubhouse and all of our
14:06
friends so. And if we weren't doing that,
14:09
then we were going to somebody's house in the neighborhood and
14:11
just doing all the same things over and over.
14:13
So we knew that that was going to have to be the one of the
14:16
very first things that we changed.
14:18
Our environment was playing a massive factor in our daytoday
14:24
habits. You know what we are doing, what
14:25
we were saying was okay and what wasn't okay.
14:28
We knew that if we were going to.
14:30
Make any effort towards this at all.
14:32
Then we were going to have to get out of that environment and
14:36
start forming new habits, making new goals.
14:39
And you know, like when I would do drug normal treatment, you
14:42
know, people would sit there and say people failed.
14:44
I always say it's not the individual who's failing on
14:46
their own. I said what happens is you take
14:49
him, you send them away to treatment, but you put them
14:51
right back in the same situation and expect them to make
14:54
different choices with the people around them making the
14:57
same choice. Yeah.
14:59
And that becomes a problem. And then you have the flip side,
15:03
where sometimes the people that love you become enablers to your
15:07
addiction. Right.
15:10
Found that to be true, working with the I used to work in
15:13
community corrections and a lot of times those people would go
15:16
out back to their same environment and they would be
15:18
back in our program. We would see them, you know,
15:21
however many months later. We're teaching them to think
15:23
differently outside their environment, but we don't teach
15:26
them. How do you think in your
15:28
environment? Absolutely.
15:30
That's such a good point because you know, you can go somewhere,
15:35
You can go somewhere for 30-40, five, 90 days, and that entire
15:40
time you're in it a safe place. You know, you have therapists
15:43
are just on hand, you have your groups on hand, you're, you
15:47
know, eating a little bit differently, just functioning a
15:49
little bit differently. And that's your safe place.
15:52
You're learning all of these new coping skills in that safe
15:55
space. And once you get out back into
15:57
the real world, back into your environment, a lot of the times
16:00
those skills kind of go out the window because you're not quite
16:04
safe like you were before. Nothing else has changed around
16:06
you. Well, the people you're engaging
16:08
with aren't using any new skills.
16:10
And in fact, you know, it's like, oh, what are you talking
16:13
like that or whatever, they, you know what I mean?
16:16
I think sometimes when we look at the success of why we don't
16:19
have the success with addiction. Because I also think that we
16:22
don't work with those families of how do you change what you're
16:25
doing? If you're a unit, then how do
16:28
you work to see things differently?
16:32
It's not one person. There's a lot of stuff that
16:36
contributes it. Like you said, having that
16:38
environment where you're going and that's what everybody's
16:41
expecting, that becomes that expectation of you.
16:44
And then when you don't do it, what is that like?
16:49
Right, right. And and, you know, I think
16:51
that's where you see a lot of, like the stigma and the shame
16:53
wrapped around addiction. You know, I remember when my
16:58
husband went into treatment and that weekend we had a Family Day
17:02
and they talked to you about the neuroscience behind addiction,
17:05
what to expect, everything like that.
17:08
And I'll just never forget this, you know, in front of all of
17:12
these families who they're, you know, their hearts are just
17:14
outside of their chest at this point.
17:16
And they said, look around this room, only 10% of these people
17:21
are actually going to be, well, only 10% of these people are
17:25
actually going to make it out of this.
17:27
And the head just drove home with me.
17:29
And I'm like, we just keep telling everybody that they're
17:31
so bad and it's just this one person that's causing all of
17:35
this badness, they're probably going to end up being bad.
17:38
You know, it's just inevitable. So that's one thing that I
17:41
really love about our program with Face It Together is we
17:44
don't only. Talk to the individual that's
17:46
struggling with addiction, but we really bring the family in as
17:50
well. And it's not just roped around
17:53
your loved ones addiction, it's roped around.
17:55
What have you experienced since this has been going on?
17:58
You know, what have you neglected about yourself?
18:00
What parts of your communication do we need to work on your
18:04
understanding? Things like that and.
18:07
I always love seeing whenever we have a family member and a PWA
18:12
or person with addiction engaged, because you just see
18:15
both people really progressing on their own.
18:18
Well, I think one of the things you said is about communication
18:22
and one of the things we know is when there's it doesn't what
18:26
once again we're talking about addiction, but it's a lot of
18:27
different things is there becomes a breakdown in
18:30
communication. Everybody's having conversations
18:33
in their head, but they're not having conversations with the
18:36
people around them. It is like, oh, I think I can do
18:40
this. Yeah, I think I can.
18:41
I don't. Yeah, I'm really not in that.
18:43
But then if you sit there and ask those people that truly
18:45
care, but do you think I'm an addict?
18:46
Oh, yes, you are. You know, kind of.
18:48
But we're not asking them because I think there's that
18:50
part that doesn't want to know the truth either.
18:53
Yeah, I and I think you're right.
18:55
I don't think that anybody chooses that this is what they
18:58
want to do this is. What happens, whether it's a
19:02
person struggling with addiction, mental health or a
19:04
family member bystander, I don't think anybody chooses to be in
19:08
those positions. But if you can communicate that,
19:11
even just saying, how are you feeling today really mentally,
19:15
how are you feeling today? What did you do today to bring
19:18
yourself back up in spirits? What can I do to help that?
19:22
You know, if we can have those conversations, I just wonder
19:25
what, you know, what could really happen inside these
19:27
households? You know one of the things.
19:30
That, I remind my clients and everybody about is that all of
19:33
us are a circumstance away from addiction, mental health and
19:36
homelessness. It does not discriminate.
19:39
It does not. And the illness, it really does
19:42
not discriminate. It's a circumstance.
19:44
Sometimes that happens that becomes that driving force and
19:48
sometimes it's because. We didn't even learn the skills
19:51
in the 1st place, so how can I implement a skill I've never
19:54
even learned? Yeah.
19:55
Absolutely. You know, and it sounds like
19:57
with the program that you're involved with, it's about
20:00
teaching skills. What are some of those important
20:02
skills that you feel are valuable to teach these people
20:06
that come through this program? Yeah.
20:09
So two of the big things that I usually really hone in on are
20:14
communication. Just figuring out how to be an
20:17
active listener, I think that's a big thing.
20:19
We always say, you know, we were given two years and one mouth
20:22
for a reason. We got to listen twice as much
20:24
as we're speaking. So just learning those active
20:27
listening skills, those communication skills, and then
20:31
setting boundaries and maintaining those boundaries,
20:34
you know, I think that we often try to set boundaries, but we
20:38
can't stay consistent with them. Or it looks more like I'm
20:41
setting a boundary against you and not this is a boundary that
20:45
I have for myself and these are some expectations I have for
20:48
myself. So we really work a lot on that
20:51
communication, setting boundaries and just some other
20:54
coping skills that you might be able to you know, that you might
20:57
be interested in like whether that be meditation or exercise,
21:02
being a little bit more social or finding your group, things
21:05
like that. You know, we really focus on the
21:08
individuals. Will focus on their big goal and
21:10
make up small goals to reach that.
21:13
Whenever we talk about boundaries, boundaries is a huge
21:15
thing. And I think what's funny about
21:17
that is that the person will say, well, I'm setting this
21:20
boundary. And sometimes the boundary can
21:23
sound punitive because the person has to be setting the
21:27
boundary for themselves. But they often feel like they're
21:29
being forced into setting the boundary.
21:32
So then it's we'll just stop coming around me, and if you
21:35
stop coming around me, then I'm not going to be drinking
21:37
anymore. How's that?
21:39
You know what I mean? Not realizing that it's.
21:41
I need to spend this time with you because I need to take care
21:45
of me. Because once again, until that
21:48
person has that thing, that intrinsic thing of knowing I
21:51
need to do this for me, whether it's your mental health, it
21:55
doesn't matter what it is shifting that focus to.
21:59
I need to do this for me. And often times it's even when
22:03
we look at people who are trying to be healthy, you know, it's
22:06
like they don't set that boundary of.
22:09
Friends calling up hey let's go for the in here.
22:11
They're like, oh man, I got it work out you know I'm not.
22:14
We know that knowledge. Or having even like a food
22:18
allergy like gluten. We have discovered that that cuz
22:21
that's I have a gluten sensitivity.
22:24
She does too. And a lot of times, you know,
22:26
you'll encounter family that they want to make something or
22:30
whatever you're coming over or that and they have no clue about
22:33
gluten free and all of that. So you don't want to hurt their
22:36
feelings because I can't eat, you know, whatever it is that
22:39
you may. But yeah, so it's kind of you do
22:43
you to be able to communicate those things and understand that
22:46
it's about taking care of yourself, but you don't want to
22:48
hurt that other person's feelings too, so.
22:50
That's the other part. We forget to educate people.
22:52
Yeah. Whether it's a gluin intolerance
22:55
or whether it's around addiction of I'm in recovery and so
22:59
therefore my world looks different than it did then In
23:03
the past, yes, but it's really having those conversations with
23:08
you. Were those conversations hard
23:10
with your family or do you feel because you've talked about your
23:13
husband when you get back to him in a minute, but your nuclear
23:15
family, what was that like when you finally said I'm going to be
23:20
healthy, I'm going to be better or work on me?
23:23
Yeah. So I will say that we were very
23:26
fortunate that our support system truly supported us.
23:30
I know that that does not happen all the time, but our families,
23:35
you know, they stopped drinking quite as much.
23:38
You know, we stopped having alcohol around at the parties,
23:42
things like that. Inadvertently, more and more
23:44
people in the family just stopped drinking altogether.
23:47
So that has been very interesting to see.
23:51
I'm not certain if it's because we just set these boundaries and
23:54
we communicated with them and we really gave them the reason why.
23:57
This is why we're doing this. This is really why we have to do
24:00
this. We love your support, but I'm
24:03
not going to make you do anything here.
24:05
But our family really jumped on board with it.
24:07
With friends, it was a little bit different with the friends.
24:11
They just didn't quite understand as much.
24:14
I think that. Maybe people are feeling a
24:17
little bit guilty, you know, if they continue to do that and we
24:20
were around. So those relationships that just
24:23
kind of organically fell off I guess.
24:27
Well, and I think the other thing is to, you know, when you
24:30
become sober, those people who have been there, what you
24:34
perceive as your, you know, group, when they're gone,
24:39
there's a little bit of grief and loss around it too, because
24:42
even the people you're around. They're not their addiction.
24:46
Absolutely. There are so many aspects and
24:48
and you will love some aspects of them.
24:52
And then when you have to make that choice to move on because
24:55
of your own mental health, physical health and all those,
24:58
there's a sadness to it too, which we don't talk.
25:01
It's like, well, no, just cut it off and move along.
25:05
Right. You're right.
25:07
There's a sense of grief there. You know, you're losing
25:09
something that was once a giant part of your life.
25:13
You know, our friends were everything to us.
25:15
We did everything together, and it was really hard to wrap my
25:19
mind around that again. Fortunately, we had a really
25:21
good support system outside of that, and my husband and I, we
25:25
were understanding these feelings that we were going
25:28
through at the same time. So that was very helpful.
25:31
But something that he always reminded me was, hey.
25:35
They didn't change. We changed like we're the ones
25:38
that change. So you can't put all these
25:40
expectations on them. You can't be so mad at them
25:43
because now we're not having movie nights at the house.
25:47
We're the ones that changed. That kind of put some things in
25:49
a perspective for me. And I was like, you know what?
25:51
You're right. It is a loss.
25:53
And it was very, very hard. But I'm doing this for a reason,
25:56
you know, and I'm going to continue to change.
25:58
I'm not going to stop there. I think.
26:02
There's a different, I think in some aspects, you know, when you
26:06
have been able to work through those addictions and you can
26:09
become successful, then those people who have addictions
26:14
understand it does not have to be the way it is.
26:17
There is another option and one option, you know, and I mean,
26:21
and I always tell people don't sit there and think you have to
26:23
go and it's a cookie cutter kind of thing.
26:27
Because it's not. Because if you do the cookie
26:28
cutter, chances are you're not going to be as successful as if
26:31
you find those things. Some people, it's like they find
26:34
meditation and it's like Dang, who knew this?
26:37
And that becomes their thing to go to.
26:40
That's more healthy. And they learn to develop those
26:43
skills around, quiet in the mind, doing all the stuff they
26:45
have to do that becomes there. Somebody has to do a, A or NA
26:49
or, you know, all of these things.
26:51
But I think when we try to use that cookie cutter for
26:54
everybody. I think that's where we lose
26:56
some of our success with addiction.
27:00
I think that you're really spot on there.
27:02
You know, I've seen things done all different ways and I would
27:05
never turn somebody away from something that's working for
27:08
them. You know, that works for you.
27:10
It didn't work for me. Just like with the work that I
27:12
do, whatever worked for me. I can't just use that for every
27:16
single person that walks through my door.
27:17
You know, we really got to get down to the individual and what
27:21
makes this individual a whole person.
27:23
Yeah, just get down to the bottom of that, what they truly
27:26
need, not just what works on that large platform or something
27:30
like that. When did you realize you were
27:32
more than your addiction? I think I realized that in a
27:37
therapy session and oh man, I just bawled and bawled my eyes
27:41
out. I was really struggling.
27:43
I was struggling with being a happy, bubbly, positive
27:48
individual. And then knowing that inside I
27:51
was feeling very dark and lost and just hopeless.
27:56
So I actually did a little meditation with my therapist
28:00
right then and there. And he had me look at myself as
28:02
both of these people. And he was like, this is OK.
28:05
Like, you were allowed to be bubbly and happy and positive,
28:09
and you're also allowed to just not feel so great sometimes.
28:13
So that right there, it just kind of sparked something in me.
28:16
And I was like, you know what? You're right.
28:18
I am not. Just what?
28:20
How everybody perceives me on the outside, and I'm not just
28:23
how I feel on the inside. And humans are so much more
28:27
complex than that. We are definitely not
28:29
one-dimensional. Absolutely not.
28:33
You know, and I think we do that internal introspection sometimes
28:37
there's that shame or all those other.
28:40
You already feel like crap, but let's throw some more on that by
28:43
oh, look, I'm a fraud here. I am acting bubbly when I'm
28:46
really not. Or do you know what I mean?
28:48
Oh, absolutely. I actually had that conversation
28:51
with him and I was like, I'm a fraud.
28:54
And we talked about me being a fraud for weeks.
28:56
I couldn't get over it. I couldn't see myself as
28:59
anything other than that. Just darkness.
29:03
Because once again, internally you were seeing yourself
29:06
one-dimensional. Yeah, absolutely.
29:08
You know, and then realizing there's so much more to who we
29:11
are now is even when I work for my class, I said, you are not
29:14
your diagnosis. It is a part of you.
29:17
It makes up part of you. But there's so many other you're
29:20
not your sexuality, you're not your gender, you're it's this
29:24
montage of things that create this individual and that
29:28
uniqueness within that individual.
29:31
But we will get stuck and particularly in when we have
29:34
addiction, any kind of. Illness, whatever it is,
29:37
whatever it gets stuck in our head, we become that.
29:40
And you know, it's always that thing of, well, this is who I
29:43
am. I've been working on that.
29:45
I have horrible allergies. And she says taking ownership of
29:48
those. And I write, you're right, they
29:51
are not my allergies. I will not take ownership.
29:55
You know, but even something as simple as that, and it's weird
29:59
what it does to the mind when you actually do that, they're
30:02
not mine. I'll be taking that medicine for
30:04
somebody else's allergies. But.
30:06
It's like unconsciously you add hair to the behavior that that
30:10
falls in line with that, I think.
30:12
And then we do. We forget that we're
30:15
multifaceted. You know, it's not just that one
30:18
piece of us, but we make it way bigger.
30:22
Well, I think though we have, society plays a little bit of
30:24
role in that too, because you know, it often times, you know,
30:27
with addicts or whatever, it's like, oh, this is what an addict
30:30
is. No, this is your definition of
30:34
what an addict is. But once again, we don't look at
30:37
the individuals and the variables that go with that.
30:40
Does that make sense? Kind of like in that treatment,
30:42
10%, you know, we're looking at a statistic.
30:47
And often times, you know, they'll be there.
30:49
Like, well, we don't have good success with the addicts.
30:53
Well, of course not because you're doing, you're treating
30:56
what the mention of it you're not treating or you treat the
30:59
whole person, but you're not really treating the whole person
31:01
because we're putting it back in the same environment.
31:04
How do I help you function in that dysfunctional environment
31:08
that you're going into? When I used to work with kids, I
31:11
would tell sometimes, honey, I can't.
31:13
Change the dysfunction that you're in, but I can change your
31:16
perception of the dysfunction. Yeah, right.
31:19
Then they're like, oh, because that gives power to that
31:22
individual. That's huge.
31:24
And basically in your recovery, that's what happens.
31:26
You know, I'm just doing that in a different saying that in a
31:29
different way, but it's very much that way.
31:31
Does that make sense well? It makes total sense, you know?
31:34
Something that I see a lot is. People think, OK, I'm an addict.
31:39
I I have an addiction. So this is all that I am.
31:43
And a lot of programs are just treating that.
31:46
We're just treating the addiction.
31:47
We're not looking at everything that has happened to lead up to
31:50
that. What about Face It Together is
31:53
we look at addiction as a symptom You.
31:56
Know and like. I'm never going to call somebody
31:58
an addict. You're a person with addiction.
32:00
If I put this label on you, then that's all we're going to think
32:04
that we are, right? I don't want you to have to go
32:07
the real life and say, hi, I'm Chelsea and I'm an alcoholic.
32:10
No, because I'm so much more than that, right?
32:12
And we just have to uncover that stuff and remind people that
32:16
there is more to you than just that.
32:18
You know, it's a symptom of all this other stuff that has been
32:21
going on. And I think we do that.
32:24
I had this conversation with the trans woman.
32:27
I was working that she was always trans.
32:29
I said, when do you get to stop transitioning and just be a
32:31
woman? And she just stopped in session.
32:34
She goes, what did you say to me?
32:35
I said, well, what more can you do?
32:38
When do you get to stop being trans?
32:40
Because then you're always transitioning, transition trans,
32:45
And our brain gets stuck in that.
32:46
And I asked my other client, when do you get to stop
32:49
identifying as an addict? When you're 10 years sober, 20
32:53
years sober? What is the magical number?
32:55
I said, you are somebody who maybe is in recovery.
32:59
You are and and once again but we will use and when I say we
33:03
I'm talking society uses that terminology.
33:07
But the person who has whatever that is buys into it and gets
33:10
put in that box and they use that same verbiage thinking that
33:15
that's part of the recovery. But I feel like that's actually
33:19
negate some of the recovery that you're doing when you continue
33:22
to say I'm an addict, when was the last time you used 10 years
33:26
ago. Okay, I'm a little confused
33:29
here, right? Yeah.
33:31
When does that stop? And when do we get to stop using
33:34
that terminology that makes you stay in the mentality of an
33:37
addict, Because even if you're not using, you will still have
33:40
the mentality of an addict. Absolutely.
33:43
You know, it kind of goes back to the If you tell me bad, I'm
33:46
enough, I'm going to be bad. You know, you tell me I'm an
33:49
addict enough, I'm going to be an addict.
33:51
If you continue to tell me that I'm transitioning, then when am
33:55
I ever going to feel whole again?
33:57
Exactly. And I think that's the whole
33:59
thing. How do you be whole when you
34:02
always have the label of being an addict?
34:05
When you think that first and foremost I'm that above
34:07
everything else, I mean, yeah, why would you know?
34:10
You be able to identify with every any other part of
34:13
yourself. That's kind of keeps you stuck,
34:15
I think. It does.
34:17
It does. It keeps you stuck from
34:20
exploring everything else that you are.
34:22
You know you're only going to dig into that one aspect of what
34:25
makes you you, and that that's all it is.
34:28
It's just one aspect. It's just something that
34:30
happened. When you became clean and sober,
34:34
what was the thing that you found that you liked the kind of
34:37
maybe surprised you? Whether it was a hobby or
34:40
whatever. Oh, that is such a good
34:42
question. I might have to think on that.
34:46
In general. I just became a more passionate
34:48
person, OK? And I became a more
34:51
understanding individual. You know, I did not always, you
34:55
know, for a very long time I looked at life as black and
34:57
white. You're this or you're that.
34:59
You know, we are doing this or we're doing that.
35:02
It just opened up my mind to. How multifaceted we truly are.
35:06
You know? It opened my mind to
35:08
understanding individuals better.
35:10
I for so long I just looked at an addict as an addict, whatever
35:14
that, you know, Webster definition is, and it's just not
35:18
true. So I really got to dive in deep
35:21
to individuals in general, and I love that because I would not
35:25
have done that before. I was probably more of a much
35:28
more judgmental person going through those addictions, and I
35:32
was probably projecting all of the things that I didn't love
35:35
about myself on to anybody else that I came in contact with, and
35:39
I can confidently say I do not do that anymore.
35:42
Awesome. Now because social function some
35:44
kind. Do you find that you can cuz you
35:47
said you when you stop doing Oh my God, how am I gonna have fun?
35:51
Am I gonna be fun? Am I gonna?
35:53
What did you realize? Yeah, I'm way more fun.
35:56
Now I get a laugh and my own. Jokes.
36:00
Exactly, yes. And I remember whenever we were
36:03
drinking, like somebody told me one time that I, like, wasn't a
36:06
funny person. And I was thinking like, what
36:09
are you talking about? I'm hilarious, but I was just
36:12
like up in my head all the time. So now I just get to be genuine
36:16
and authentic with people. I'm not worried about the things
36:19
that are going to come out of my mouth or the thoughts that I'm
36:22
having. You know, they're very genuine.
36:25
Did you find any hobbies you liked?
36:26
Golf, I'm guessing wasn't one of them, yeah.
36:29
We came up golf. We gave up goal.
36:32
We've considered picking it back up, but we're going four years
36:36
strong without it. I would say that some of the
36:40
hobbies that I picked up were really just right in tune with
36:44
the self-care that I was trying to accomplish.
36:46
I became very passionate about mental health.
36:49
I enjoy volunteering. I love meditation.
36:53
You know, I could sit there and meditate all day long and just
36:56
be content. You know, there are these things
36:58
that they were just stuff that I was focusing in on myself.
37:01
Care that just, you know, turned into hobbies, turned into
37:05
passions. And I think anytime you can take
37:07
something that you like and and do something with it, and we
37:11
always joke about that, it's not a job.
37:13
I've loved being a therapist, so I never sit there and say I have
37:16
a job. I love what I do because I get
37:19
to be who I am. You know, what you see is what
37:21
you get. Yeah, you know.
37:23
That's one of the things that we've loved about the podcast
37:25
too. And we actually, it's cool that
37:27
we get to do that together because you know, as a
37:30
therapist, yeah, she kind of, she had that already.
37:32
She had a job that she was fulfilled in that way, you know.
37:37
But I feel like that the podcast has brought Even so much more
37:39
and we're so passionate about that because we get to talk to
37:43
people like yourself, you know, that are making these changes
37:45
and and self-care is an important thing and that and we
37:49
love to put that out there to people.
37:51
We love promoting the evolution of somebody.
37:53
Yes. The thing is, is for people that
37:56
are, we evolve. We're always changing.
38:00
You may not see the change, but nothing in our life stay
38:03
stagnant. Nothing.
38:06
So always love that when somebody comes.
38:07
I said what's new and different Since last week?
38:09
Nothing really. Time stood still for you.
38:11
How did that happen? Tell me about this.
38:14
You know they'll be there like, well, no okay.
38:17
Then what is new and different? There's something different.
38:19
What did you think? Different?
38:20
What did you do different? But we get so caught up in that
38:24
big routine, we forget those little things that we're doing.
38:27
Yeah, I know. I think that's so true.
38:29
I I get that a lot in some sessions too.
38:32
People will say, oh nothing's different, nothing's changed.
38:35
And next thing you know, an hour has passed and we talked
38:37
non-stop. And so I always point those
38:40
things out to people as well. You know, like we are always
38:43
changing, You know, there's a difference between living in the
38:46
chaos. And thinking that in order to
38:49
talk about something, you have to talk about something that is
38:52
tragic or catastrophizing things.
38:55
You know, you think that's the only thing that we have to talk
38:57
about are the bad stuff. But whenever you kind of give
39:00
yourself that permission to really see the progress that's
39:04
being made, to see the beautiful things that are going on.
39:07
I think what's interesting is when people understand you can
39:10
laugh in therapy. I'm.
39:13
Serious. Because, you know, it's like.
39:16
Dude, you already been having a rough day.
39:18
We don't have to go in there and make it worse.
39:20
And so I love that Some clients I'll think yeah and Oh my God, I
39:26
love when we just laugh and we'll laugh at stupid stuff cuz
39:28
I just say I don't have a filter sometimes so I just say what I
39:33
think. They'll be like, what did you
39:34
just say? But I think that's so beneficial
39:38
though. So you could ask my coworkers,
39:40
my my room's, the laughing room, my laugh just kind of carries
39:44
and but you know that I always want somebody to laugh in those
39:47
sessions. We don't want to go in there.
39:49
And you said we're already going through some bad stuff.
39:51
We don't need to just rehash all the bad stuff and leave here in
39:54
tears again. Well, don't you think though?
39:57
It's almost like you feel like all this crap is happening.
40:02
How can I be happy? You know, oftentimes in grief
40:05
and loss, you know, people will be there and they almost feel
40:09
guilt. You know, we've talked about
40:12
that after your dad died, feeling like, how dare I be
40:16
happy? You know, because you're trying
40:20
to get back to that place where all's right with the world.
40:23
And when somebody's so important to you is missing, you feel like
40:25
that you can't go to that place. And then if you do have those
40:28
moments where that you're just. You know, you feel happier that
40:32
you almost feel like it's not okay you.
40:34
You kind of feel like you're somehow betraying them or
40:38
something, I think. I think that is so true.
40:41
It's even like I think when people have, whether it's grief
40:44
and laughter or addiction, like people have to keep asking you
40:47
how are you doing with your recovery, how you doing with
40:49
your recovery? Yeah.
40:51
It's been four years, people. We can stop asking the question,
40:54
You know what I mean? It's okay to laugh with me.
40:58
It's okay to talk about your stupid.
41:00
Date you went on that you were drunk.
41:02
It wasn't me drunk, it was you drunk, you know, But people
41:05
start to censor or we censor ourselves and we we stop
41:09
laughing and we stop doing those things that are so I think,
41:12
relevant and important to being healthy and in our life, it's
41:16
it's our ability to laugh sometimes at ourselves.
41:19
They're right, you know. So you do this now.
41:22
What are your goals? What are you working on?
41:25
What do you wanna be when you grow up?
41:27
Yeah, right. This is something that I still
41:30
ask myself to this day. And like you said, we are
41:32
constantly evolving and you know, you just grow to love so
41:37
many things and it's like, okay, how can I put all of this into
41:40
one thing? I would eventually love to
41:44
become a therapist. That has been a big goal of
41:47
mine, probably since about two years, maybe about a year after
41:52
I became, well from alcohol. I was talking to my therapist
41:55
about and I was like, you're right, everybody tells me all of
41:58
their stuff. Why don't they just go out and
42:00
do that? So I've been working on that.
42:02
I would really love to become a therapist one day.
42:05
I want to keep working with the community.
42:07
If I could do something to just get the whole community engaged,
42:11
breakdown these stigmatizations, give people, other outlets to
42:15
refine some hobbies, try new things.
42:18
I'd love to do something where just all Wellness was under a
42:21
roof and everybody had a spot that they could go to and know
42:24
that it was a good and safe spot.
42:26
Nice. Now, did your organization do
42:29
community things? Like do they have any stuff
42:32
coming up up and coming, anything like that?
42:35
Our basis model is we offer one-on-one peer support.
42:39
So we do just our normal sessions throughout the weeks.
42:44
We do have a big, it's called March into the Light.
42:47
It's an annual March that we do every single year.
42:50
We'll have it both here in Colorado and in South Dakota.
42:54
And it's really beautiful. It just gives everybody an
42:56
opportunity that is either currently struggling.
43:00
Maybe they're in their recovery, they're in a maintenance stage,
43:03
they're thinking about it, a chance to honor loved ones that
43:07
were lost and at sunset. So this will be on Saturday,
43:11
September 23rd at sunset. Sorry.
43:16
At sunrise, everybody will congregate together and we will
43:20
March. And you do like a mile long walk
43:23
to just honor everybody that has been hurt, lost or struggled
43:27
throughout that time. And we'll have lots and lots of
43:30
vendors out there, different community organizations.
43:33
Oh. Yeah.
43:36
Yeah, I'll send you an invite to it.
43:38
I think I got the date wrong. I think it's actually on the
43:41
22nd. Last year was on the 23rd.
43:44
Well, it's such a neat thing. It's to bring awareness.
43:47
And you know, I tell people one has to be aware before 1 to make
43:50
a change. Bringing that awareness, helping
43:54
people to understand. Because we live in a time now
43:57
where we are somebody we know is either struggling with an
44:02
addiction or mental health issue.
44:04
Sometimes they go handinhand, sometimes they don't.
44:07
But we often see that dual diagnosis and.
44:11
We are losing a lot of people to addiction whether it's that lack
44:16
of helping people learn coping skills and you know, I mean how
44:20
do we teach people to do that in their homes or whatever.
44:24
You know wherever it starts the school systems, you know it's
44:26
it's a systemic problem that we have.
44:29
But bringing the awareness is what we have to do first and
44:34
hopefully that's we're doing today.
44:36
When our listeners here, it's about bringing an awareness,
44:39
it's not about. Having a negative thing about
44:42
addiction or anything else, which sometimes there's a lot of
44:45
negativity around it, but it's like everything else, you know,
44:49
you still have to work through things to punish the person
44:52
who's trying to work through them.
44:53
Doesn't make the addiction go away.
44:55
Sometimes it just exacerbates it.
44:58
Well, 100 percent, 100%. Well, that's why I'm so thankful
45:02
that we have individuals that really seek out to bring
45:05
awareness like the two of you. I love how.
45:08
Big podcasts have taken off because it truly gives everybody
45:12
that opportunity to learn and to educate themselves.
45:16
Whereas you know, 10 years ago we just didn't have quite this
45:20
much information. Social medias, you know, it can
45:23
be such a positive thing. You know, wherever you focus,
45:26
what you focus on becomes what it is.
45:28
I mean, if you could go focus on all the negative in social media
45:31
as well, that's a choice. You know, but it can be a really
45:34
good platform. We're finding that out, aren't
45:36
we? Yeah.
45:37
Sure, as we navigate it. Well, and it's kind of like that
45:41
with anything in life. Exactly.
45:42
You know, if we're seeking out the negatives, if we're just
45:45
focusing on the negatives, that's what our environment is
45:47
going to look like. But if we can hone in on that
45:50
positive stuff. And.
45:51
Absolutely. Opportunities.
45:53
Endless. Yeah.
45:54
So as we're wrapping up, give another plug for your company
45:56
again. Yes, so we're face it together.
45:59
We do one-on-one peer coaching for individuals that struggle
46:03
with addiction and their family members as well.
46:05
The PWA does not have to be involved in a program for the
46:08
loved 1 to get help themselves. And how do they find you?
46:12
So you can go to our website its@wefaceittogether.org and on
46:18
that website there's a little button in the top right hand
46:21
corner. It says get started, You can
46:23
fill out a web inquiry and our first impressions team will get
46:26
back to you. Within 24 hours or we have a
46:29
number on there that you can call as well.
46:32
Leave us a message or hopefully get through to somebody and you
46:34
can go ahead and get started. And how long does the process
46:37
usually take once somebody fills out their inquiry, just real
46:40
quickly? Yeah.
46:41
So people are always shocked about how quickly they can get
46:44
in because there is a very long wait and mental health all
46:46
across the country right now. So Monday through Friday, our
46:50
regular business hours, if you fill out an inquiry through
46:54
Monday through Friday, you'll get a response within 24 hours.
46:57
We have a list of assessments that you will take, and we use
47:00
those just to kind of gauge where individuals are and to get
47:03
them paired up with a coach that most closely resembles their
47:06
lived experiences. But once we get those
47:09
assessments back again within 24 hours, we can get them signed up
47:12
with a coach. Oh, outstanding.
47:14
That's a nice turn around there. Yes, absolutely, absolutely.
47:18
And we have a very diverse staff, so we try to make certain
47:21
that, you know, everybody has a home in their coach.
47:24
Oh, absolutely wonderful. Thank you so much for joining us
47:28
and for, you know, helping spread the word that there is
47:31
hope. You know, whether if you have an
47:33
addiction, there's always hope you can become whatever you want
47:35
to become. You know, it's a journey and you
47:39
just kind of have to keep moving along with it, absolutely.
47:42
Just keep going. So thank you so much to our
47:46
listeners. We appreciate you as always go
47:48
out, be kind to others, pay it forward and we will be back next
47:53
week. Bye.
47:54
Bye.