Latest / The Lila Rose Show / E71: Your Emotions Matter

Transcript

E71: Your Emotions Matter · The Lila Rose Show

0:00
My belief is that attachment theory has given us the best way
0:04
to explain how relationships work.
0:06
The closest science has come. There's a saying I heard
0:09
recently, and I really believe this, that the root of all
0:11
pathology is unexpressed fear. Shame is probably the biggest
0:16
factor in an emotionally unsafe environment.
0:19
My experience is it's never too late to build a healthy
0:23
relationship with your child and turn the tide.
0:30
Hey everybody, welcome back to the Lila Rose podcast.
0:33
Today we're going to have on Julie Manano, who is a licensed
0:36
marriage and family therapist. She is the author of a
0:39
forthcoming book on secure love, and she does a lot of work on
0:43
attachment theory and a lot of work with couples couples
0:47
counseling. So she has some great gems in
0:49
this interview about how to approach a relationship that may
0:52
be on the rocks and make it healthier, how to already with a
0:56
secure relationship you may have make it stronger and a lot more.
1:00
I think you're going to enjoy this episode.
1:02
As always, don't forget to subscribe to the podcast
1:04
wherever you're listening if it's on YouTube or on podcast
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1:54
Julie, thanks so much for joining the podcast.
1:57
You're very welcome. It's good to be here.
1:59
All right, so for those who don't know your background yet
2:02
and you've done some incredible work on attachment theory,
2:05
share, share with us a little more about your background.
2:09
Sure. So I am a couples therapist by
2:11
trade. That's my number one Pat and I
2:15
have been treating couples for about, gosh, 12 years now.
2:21
I have a fan, a large family, have six children.
2:24
And you know, the story goes that I always was drawn to the
2:30
the world of therapy, decided to go ahead and have a family when
2:35
my youngest was 1. I thought, you know, I just
2:39
started realizing there's something more to relationships,
2:43
not just romantic relationships, but the relationships with my
2:46
kids. I think that was probably the
2:49
driving force. I just felt like there was
2:51
something missing and I wanted to go find out what it was and I
2:55
wasn't getting it in self help books.
2:57
It was something I needed. I, I'm the type of person that
3:00
really needs to understand something on the deepest level,
3:04
right. And so I went back to grad
3:06
school. I immediately stumbled upon
3:09
attachment theory, which wasn't being taught at the time.
3:12
So I just kind of did all their work and then learned attachment
3:15
theory on my own, planning to use it with individuals because
3:20
I had no, no interest whatsoever in being a couples therapist.
3:24
So I know, isn't that funny. In my license was actually a
3:28
licensed marriage and family therapist because in California
3:31
where I lived at the time, that's the king license.
3:35
Most therapists in California are LMF TS and so I kind of
3:39
resented having to have that license, but that was the
3:42
program I found that it was convenient for me.
3:45
So Fast forward, I get my degree and then I decided to, I had to
3:53
see a couple because I had to see a few or you know, a
3:56
handful, maybe 500 hours of couples work to get my license.
4:00
So I saw my first couple and it was really hard, incredibly
4:06
difficult. You know, I was used to managing
4:09
one person and now I'm in the room managing not just two
4:13
people, but their relationship with each other.
4:16
And it felt really challenging and something was really
4:20
intriguing to me about it. So I immediately that day I
4:24
remembered learning about EFT in grad school, which is a type of
4:29
couples work that's based on attachment theory.
4:32
And so I'm got on the computer. I found the first training that
4:37
was happening in the US, not the first, but the first, you know,
4:41
coming up, upcoming one in Montana.
4:44
I never been to Montana. You know, it's kind of random,
4:47
but I had to get it. I didn't want to wait, you know,
4:50
another two weeks for the next one that was closer to my home.
4:53
So I flew out to Montana, walked in the door and I was like, this
4:56
is it. This is where I meant to be.
4:59
Just the, the spirit of EFT, the mindset, the compassion, you
5:04
know, the way that humanity is viewed and such a non
5:08
pathological way that I was kind of used to from the other types
5:12
of thing, modalities and such that I was learning about.
5:16
And from that day forward, I I never took on another individual
5:21
as a client and what it is and IA very strong supporter of
5:24
individual therapy. I just found something that
5:26
worked a little better for me. What it what it was is that when
5:31
I was working with individuals in doing this attachment work, I
5:35
was, I was really bonding with them and creating this very
5:38
emotionally safe environment. And they were growing as
5:40
individuals. But then they would go home and
5:43
they just weren't getting that level of emotional support at
5:46
home. Their partner a lot of times
5:48
wasn't really on the same page. Even if they were going to
5:51
therapy, they may have been getting a different kind of
5:54
therapy And, and it was, it kind of, it just made me sad, you
5:58
know, it was just hard. That was what was really hard
6:00
about that, that work with individuals.
6:02
So when I started seeing couples that really changed everything.
6:05
I, I realized like, look, I can help people, not just as
6:09
individuals, but in their relationship.
6:11
I can send them home with each other with those emotional
6:15
support skills that, you know, all there any therapist who's
6:19
effective has to be really good at that because that's what
6:21
creates safety to actually go forward and do the, you know,
6:24
the therapy part. So that's how I just really fell
6:28
in love. And then it, it just taught me,
6:30
you know, learning attachment theory and how to really show up
6:34
in relationships in a way that creates security just changed my
6:39
personal life dramatically. And you're married.
6:44
You mentioned six kids and you're married too, I think for
6:47
over 20 years now. Yes, I've been 23 1/2 years.
6:51
Yep. Awesome.
6:52
Yeah. So you're, you're living this as
6:53
you're teaching it. And, you know, I love already
6:57
the direction you're going because, you know, couples
7:00
therapy, the idea is you're, they're both there to work
7:02
together. And I'm sure there's varying
7:03
degrees of willingness and all kinds of issues along the way.
7:07
But you know, you're, you're talking about this profound
7:09
thing that you're getting to do and you do do, which is working
7:12
with a couple to directly impact, hopefully, you know,
7:16
and, and empower them to deal with how they're dealing with
7:20
each other. I think that's part of the
7:22
loneliness of individuals, couples, individuals therapy.
7:25
Not to say that I think it's bad.
7:27
I think it's awesome actually. But you're going and you're kind
7:30
of doing it solo, you know, and you have to go and take that
7:33
home and try to apply it. Yeah, and it's and it's very
7:37
useful. I always push self growth.
7:39
It's such a big part of this process.
7:41
But you know, it can be very lonely.
7:45
So you mentioned EFT and then we're we're obviously going to
7:48
learn a lot about attachment theory, particularly applying to
7:52
couples and their interaction, but we're also going to get into
7:54
kids and parents. So let's start with what is EFT
7:58
and what is attachment theory? And then I want to hear how
8:03
that's different from other approaches to couples
8:06
counseling. Great.
8:07
So EFT is a, is a stands for Emotionally Focused Couples
8:12
Therapy. So just to give you a little
8:16
background, a man named Doctor John Bolby in the mid 1940s
8:22
started figuring out that the children, the distressed
8:26
children that he was working with had very similar home lives
8:33
that had a lot of attachment disruption.
8:35
And at the time, that was a pretty profound way to go.
8:38
It was not very well accepted that the child's home life could
8:43
impact their functioning in the world as they grew older.
8:46
Back then it was kind of more Freudian, which nothing against
8:49
Freud did some great things, but it was very much you're, you're
8:52
born with these kind of internal psychological mechanisms that
8:56
define who you become. And so John Bolby really let
9:00
launched on to this and he started studying it and
9:02
traveling, traveling all the way around the world, looking at
9:06
different cultures in the way that they attach.
9:08
And he came up with the theory of attachment, which is that we
9:12
are wired to connect. Our bodies have an attachment
9:17
behavioral system, just like we have an appetite system and
9:21
we're driven to eat, just like we have a sex drive and we're
9:24
driven to procreate. And that you cannot remove that
9:28
from the person. You can suppress it, but you
9:30
cannot remove that from the person.
9:32
And that it's a function of evolution.
9:34
I mean, we need to, we need others to have shelter and food.
9:38
And I mean, if you're looking at, you know, primitive humans
9:41
and we still have that drive today.
9:43
And not only that, I mean, I think some people see it as, you
9:46
know, more of a spiritual thing too.
9:49
And so he started as he went in the later 1970s, someone came
9:57
along and decided to put all of this to research, to test it.
10:01
And so they started doing a lot of research with children and
10:03
parents. And that's how they categorize
10:06
these four different attachment styles, which we'll talk about,
10:09
I'm sure. From there.
10:12
It was really just applied to parent children dynamics.
10:15
And then a couple of researchers, Hazen and Shaver,
10:17
came on to the scene. They decided to start applying
10:20
it to, in doing research with attachment theory in romantic
10:25
relationships as adults. And that started blowing up and
10:29
started making a lot of sense. And then someone named Doctor
10:32
Sue Johnson came along shortly after.
10:35
And she's actually, I, I wonder, I always think about this.
10:39
I wonder if she's the most brilliant mind of all because
10:42
she took it and organized it and turned it into a way to treat
10:46
couples and created a scaffold out of it, an organized way, you
10:50
know, a linear way. So starting at, you know, what
10:53
they can work with and conflict, going more, going deeper with
10:58
the couple and expanding upon the work as they're ready to
11:01
grow. You don't just go in and start
11:03
the deepest work. You know, you first stabilize
11:05
their communication and just, you know, a lovely theory.
11:11
And that's what I do. And so she created emotionally
11:13
focused therapy in the 80s. And those of us who do that type
11:18
of work have been doing it, you know, for decades.
11:20
Not me personally, but that's how long therapists have been
11:24
practicing EFT. And then it wasn't really until
11:27
the last 10 or so years that it crossed the line.
11:30
It jumped from the therapy community over into the broader
11:37
population self, people who were into self help and non clinical
11:41
people and people started, you know, really resonating with it
11:46
and going, hey, this cut this start, this is making sense.
11:49
I I think my belief, and many other people's belief that
11:52
working with relationships is that attachment theory has given
11:56
us the best way to explain how relationships work yet.
12:04
There's. The closest science has come.
12:07
So EFT you need attachment theory for to practice EFT.
12:11
It's a core underpinning of it. All right, So what are the
12:14
different attachment styles? So we have anxious attachment,
12:18
which we have anxious attachment, avoidant attachment,
12:22
disorganized attachment, those are all considered insecure.
12:25
They're not feeling safe and close enough of the time with
12:29
their own relationship with self or with their partner.
12:32
And then we have people who have secure attachment and they kind
12:35
of live in an overall climate of, you know, safety with their
12:39
own body and their relationship with ourselves, which we all
12:42
have and with their partner. And it takes 2 securely attached
12:47
people to come together and have a secure relationship.
12:51
However, any couple can grow toward it.
12:54
You know that it's, it's very possible.
12:58
And so let me go back here. So anxious attachment.
13:01
They're the partners in the relationships who are really
13:03
desperately trying to close the distance, typically come on
13:06
strong, want more time together. They're going to react to having
13:11
their needs go unmet with a lot of protest, sometimes blame,
13:15
sometimes criticism, sometimes getting kind of big and more
13:18
escalated emotionally. And the, the problem is, is that
13:23
they grew up in environments that where they weren't getting
13:26
enough, their emotional needs met enough at the time, they
13:29
weren't feeling validated. They, they couldn't consistently
13:33
rely on comfort. Maybe they were shamed for
13:35
feeling the way they did or told you shouldn't feel that way or
13:39
you know, you need to go to your room to be angry.
13:41
And so they just, they didn't get the emotional support and
13:44
they were aware of it. Some, somewhere along the line,
13:47
they got enough of it, kind of know it exists, but they
13:49
couldn't really rely on it. And so there's a sense of
13:53
deprivation. And so that sense of deprivation
13:56
will show up in the relationship.
13:58
And usually they are getting into relationships with someone
14:02
with an avoidant attachment. And it just creates this, you
14:06
know, they are already grew up in a deprived environment,
14:09
didn't know what to look for. Now they're in a relationship
14:11
with someone who can't show up for them.
14:14
And it just creates this internal, you know, state of
14:17
just loneliness and frustration to varying degrees to all of
14:21
this stuff is to varying degrees.
14:23
And so the problem is, is that they know the needs aren't met,
14:28
but they also don't really know what the needs are.
14:31
They don't have a felt sense. So even if the needs might be
14:34
getting that or they say a lot of vague things like I need you
14:38
to be more emotionally available, but they don't really
14:41
know how to operationally reach for or put into words or be
14:45
clear. Well, the problem is, is that
14:47
even if they did, their partner still has a block because
14:51
usually their partner has what's called an avoidant attachment.
14:54
So they grew up in an environment where their
14:56
emotional needs weren't getting that, but they had no idea
15:00
because it just, they stuffed it.
15:02
They, the environment was more emotionally dry.
15:05
So it wasn't more, it was less about inconsistency and more
15:08
about it just not being there altogether.
15:11
A lot of times they grew up in stable, loving homes where they
15:15
have a lot of their other needs taken care of, but there's just
15:18
not a lot of emotional awareness talking to them about their
15:23
feelings, helping them, you know, organize their feelings
15:26
and manage them. And So what they do is they just
15:28
send all of that underground. It shows up in their lives, but
15:32
they don't have a connection. They really don't recognize with
15:36
words and very clearly that, hey, I have emotional needs and
15:40
they're going unmet. And So what they do is they
15:43
don't know how to show up for themselves, and they certainly
15:46
don't know how to show up with their partner who also doesn't
15:49
really know how to show up for themselves.
15:51
And they get stuck in this cycle.
15:53
And usually how it will work is the anxious partner will bring
15:56
up a concern about, you know, closeness or housework or
16:01
broccoli or who you dated in middle school.
16:03
I mean, it really could be anything.
16:05
And then the avoidant partner gets over, you know, gets
16:09
overwhelmed, but they don't really know they're overwhelmed.
16:12
And so they just try to get really logical.
16:13
You know, you shouldn't worry about it that way or I, I, you
16:17
know, we went on a walk two weeks ago.
16:20
What are you talking about? That we don't spend time
16:21
together or they get really defensive or they might push
16:25
away the concern with, you know, you're too needy, you're
16:29
invalidation. And they're not the bad guy
16:31
here, but they don't know how to respond.
16:34
The, the anxious partners coming in with heat.
16:37
They don't really know how to bring things up safely.
16:40
So then the anxious partner now feels invalidated, which the
16:43
anxious partners very sensitive to and they get us, they get
16:47
more escalated, they get more desperate, they get more
16:50
protesty. They have been the avoidant
16:52
partner now is feeling attacked. And eventually the way it
16:57
usually plays out of the avoidant partner typically just
16:59
kind of shuts down or just starts getting really appeasing
17:03
anything to make up make it go away.
17:06
And they, you know, to varying degrees, they go away from each
17:10
other in a state of tension because they just, you know, at
17:13
some point a fight has to stop, right?
17:16
And they, you know, over time they'll make their way back
17:21
together. But the actual issue didn't get
17:23
resolved, right? We, we still didn't get, get
17:27
this issue of dishes talked about and find this place of
17:31
resolution with each other working as a team.
17:34
And we harmed each other emotionally and had this
17:37
interaction where all these attachment needs were going
17:40
unmet. We weren't feeling heard, We
17:43
weren't feeling validated. We weren't feeling appreciated.
17:45
We weren't feeling comforted and our pain.
17:48
And yeah. And so then we have a
17:50
disorganized attachment, which is kind of it like a combination
17:55
of the two, but with a layer of even more fear and more mistrust
18:00
of people that usually people with a disorganized attachment
18:03
grew up in kind of homes with trauma or just higher levels of
18:08
dysfunction. And then we have secure
18:11
attachment and people with secure attachment are able to
18:15
communicate with each other around what I call the four CS
18:19
comfort in a relationship. They can't, they can't, they do
18:23
conflict in a healthy way. You know, they get heated.
18:26
We all need to have emotional engagement, but they don't throw
18:30
daggers at each other. They don't disengage.
18:33
They do it in a respectful, loving, relatively healthy way.
18:37
I mean, they're not nobody's perfect when we're in conflict
18:41
and they, you know, so again, connection, cooperation, I
18:48
again, I call those the four CS they do.
18:50
They can work through all of those, you know, just sharing a
18:53
life together, problems that show up and you know, the way
18:58
that they communicate open space for them to really truly resolve
19:01
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19:05
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19:38
So a few questions. This is all a lot of great
19:41
information. So first of all for the, for the
19:44
first three attachment styles for the anxious, the avoidant
19:49
and then the basically I think that it was a disorder the word
19:52
you used. Disorganized.
19:54
Disorganized so. That fearful avoidant if fear.
19:58
Fearful avoidant. So I think, you know, all of us
20:01
have moments, right where we get anxious about an attachment we
20:05
have right of an important relationship we have, or we
20:07
might feel the the temptation to avoid the the situation because
20:11
we're like over stimulated or, you know, we're exhausted or
20:14
whatever it is, right. So I just to help people
20:17
understand and put this in context for daily life and
20:20
people's, you know, daily experiences.
20:23
Do all of us have, you know, at times maybe pieces of poor
20:27
attack? And that can pop up, especially
20:30
if there are certain, you know, needs that are not being met.
20:33
You know, you're exhausted, you're sick.
20:35
You know, you're, you're pregnant.
20:37
I'm pregnant right now. Or, you know, you're whatever it
20:40
is. But you're talking about
20:42
something a little different. It's not just about, you know,
20:44
the rough edges of life. Sometimes this is, you know,
20:46
very deep, deeply rooted issues that people have where they they
20:50
continue to play out these themes in their relationships
20:53
and they seem stuck in these bad patterns.
20:56
Is that the difference? Yes, we're we're not dealing,
21:00
you know, when we talk about attachment theory, we're looking
21:02
at the layer under this the external stressors.
21:05
We're looking at how do you communicate about what happens
21:09
when you're stressed? How do you communicate when
21:11
you're feeling alone? And there's how how in touch
21:15
with you, How in touch are you with your emotional experience
21:20
to begin with? How do you manage your own
21:21
emotions? Typically people, this is, you
21:25
know, statistically speaking, right, most people will develop
21:30
an attachment style, the way they manage their own emotional
21:33
pain and the way that they manage painful, stressful events
21:38
in their adult relationship. Most people will have a
21:41
predominant style, retain that predominant style into
21:45
adulthood, and pair up with people who reinforce that style
21:50
because it's just what they know.
21:51
There's a handful of reasons I could go into why that happens.
21:56
With that said, there are times when different parts of us are
22:00
going to be pulled, you know, up to the surface.
22:03
Sometimes people do get in relationships where they bring
22:06
out a lot of different parts and one person shifts from anxious
22:10
to avoid it in the context of that relationship.
22:13
Brains are plastic. You know, we're going to always
22:15
adapt to our environment. Most of the time there's
22:18
consistency and you know, we can always work on ourselves too.
22:23
And, and So what I see is that we're going to see, you know,
22:28
that bell curve and in the middle of the bell curve, we're
22:30
going to see most of the people are pretty consistent and have a
22:33
predominant style. And then on one end, we're going
22:37
to have people who are growing with each other or growing
22:40
themselves enough that the relationship environment is
22:44
shifting. And as they move in towards
22:47
secure, they start getting in touch with different parts of
22:50
themselves. And so the anxious partner
22:52
starts to self regulate more and get in touch with their own
22:56
avoidance. And the now the they're in touch
22:59
with their own avoidance. And the avoidant who's over
23:02
there growing is now going wait, they're pulling away.
23:05
Who's closing the distance here? And they might start to become
23:08
anxious as they sort of figure out, you know, when you first
23:11
learn to set boundaries and you kind of go to the extreme with
23:14
it because you're playing around with the idea, you know, a lot
23:17
of people do that when they're trying to learn boundaries.
23:19
And then you sort of back up into that middle zone.
23:22
It's kind of like that. On the other end of the
23:24
spectrum, we have disorganized. And it's less about growth and
23:29
flexibility, and it's more about a lack of predictability.
23:34
So how does this and then another actually important
23:36
question is, is it necessarily that as a child you lacked a
23:41
secure attachment with your mother, you know, let's say, or
23:45
maybe with your father or whoever it is, And that's pretty
23:49
much virtually all the time that's the reason for your
23:53
disordered or you're anxious or you're, you know, avoiding
23:56
attachment style. Or could it be something
23:58
biological or some other trauma or deprivation that enter the
24:02
child's life? Like can we trace back where
24:04
this comes from? Do we have a general, generally
24:06
good sense of how people end up at one of these attachment
24:09
styles? Absolutely, 9 times out of 10,
24:13
or let's say 8 times out of 10, you're going to see an
24:15
environment that had some level of a lack of emotional support.
24:21
Now with that said, yes people are.
24:24
OK. Let me go back a bit.
24:26
Nobody is born with an insecure attachment.
24:28
It is 100% relational. However, people can be born with
24:34
temperaments that can sort of manifest in a, in a style of
24:40
insecure attachment. I really think that it's
24:43
probably better it's, it might be more helpful for people to
24:47
focus less on the categories of avoid and anxious and more on
24:51
the broad category of insecure. I think that's, that can be a
24:54
little more helpful for people it they don't get so caught up
24:57
and well, what am I, you know, but we're born with
25:01
temperaments. If you have a fussy baby and
25:04
that baby sort of has more of an emotive personality and just is
25:08
probably going to, because of the way they experience their
25:12
feelings in a big way, be more of an externalizer.
25:16
Or if you have a very calm baby that's not getting their needs
25:19
met or a calm child, you know, things can happen at any, really
25:24
any age. Things can sort of, you know,
25:26
deteriorate as far as attachment safety goes, but if you have
25:30
someone who's just by nature really common laid back that
25:33
that person child might be more likely to just be good at
25:36
stuffing. And so a lot of times though,
25:40
it's related to the way the parent shows up.
25:43
You know, there's a lot of really common types of parenting
25:46
that will lead to an anxious attachment.
25:49
There's a lot of types of parenting, a lot of
25:51
commonalities and the type of parenting that will lead to and
25:54
avoid an attachment. Now, if you have, let's say you
25:58
have a home life and it's good enough, right?
26:00
It's good enough. Your parents are comforting for
26:03
the most part, You know, you, you're mostly getting your needs
26:06
met. It's not through the roof,
26:08
emotional support, but it's good enough.
26:10
Then you go to school and you start getting bullied and your
26:13
parents don't really know how to deal with that, you know, And so
26:17
you end up sort of alone with it.
26:19
And maybe you have a parent who is really good with supporting
26:22
you, but their philosophy on bullies is, you know, you just
26:26
got to not let it get to you. And so you're not getting
26:29
emotional support. And yeah, that can affect the
26:31
way that you, anything that really has a strong impact on
26:36
the way that you experience relationships and the feedback
26:39
you get from others about your worthiness, your emotions, that
26:43
can impact you. So it's not as simple as parent
26:47
child, but parent child is a huge factor.
26:50
So one thing that when you were talking about, you know, that
26:53
person who has both anxious and avoidant attachment styles and
26:56
there's a lot of disorder there. There's, you know, topic,
26:59
typically trauma. It made me think of borderline
27:01
personality disorder for a moment because, you know, or you
27:03
could assign other personality disorders to these attachment
27:09
styles. What's the interplay between
27:11
that and that you've seen in your work?
27:12
And are we sometimes using, like, BPD borderline personality
27:16
disorder as a label for someone that's just really seriously
27:21
anxious in their attachment style?
27:23
Or is that an oversimplification?
27:24
That a bit you know there is a huge overlap.
27:27
The way I like to say it is if you have borderline personality
27:30
disorder in a you go through the DSM criteria exact this exactly
27:36
the same for disorganized. You cannot have, you cannot meet
27:39
the criteria for disorganized. I mean, I'm sorry, you cannot
27:42
meet the criteria for BPD without having a disorganized
27:47
attachment. OK.
27:48
But many, many, many people have a disorganized attachment who
27:52
don't have BPD. So I do think that the, the
27:57
label BPD is useful because we don't have to go around, you
28:02
know, there's a certain set of symptoms that help people know
28:07
we're all in this, especially clinicians, we're all in the
28:09
same page. We don't have to go through and
28:11
say all of these symptoms. We can say, you know, I think
28:14
maybe it's become so stigmatized that we should come up with a
28:17
different way of saying it because it's always related to
28:19
trauma, always, you know, especially emotional
28:22
invalidation. That's the number one common
28:28
trait of an, of the environment of someone with borderline
28:31
personality disorder is it is an emotionally invalidating
28:35
environment. There doesn't have to be high
28:37
levels of abuse. And so yes, that is a
28:40
disorganized, but it doesn't go the other way.
28:43
Some people have disorganized and they don't kind of act out
28:47
in those ways that is more common to borderline.
28:50
So the question I think a lot of people might be thinking right
28:53
now, you know, on the podcast, we talk about relationships and
28:56
we're been getting more into parenting.
28:57
We're going to be getting more into parenting in the future.
29:00
But a lot of it is dating, relationships, marriage, you
29:03
know, what is it, you know, for the parents soliciting or people
29:07
trying to understand their childhood too.
29:08
But you know, what are those things like you mentioned, they
29:11
didn't get emotional affirmation.
29:13
You know, they're, they're constantly being starved of that
29:15
as a kid and that can lead to BPD and these disorganized
29:18
attachment styles. Can you give some examples of
29:21
those parenting approaches that you've just seen in your work?
29:24
These are these are recipe for disaster with your kids.
29:28
And then, you know, the parenting approaches that you
29:30
feel that are really these, these are the ones that I
29:33
recommended and that are working.
29:35
Absolutely so. Let me just start with this.
29:39
I have six children. I didn't go back to grad school
29:42
until I was, you know, had my oldest was 10.
29:45
My youngest was 1, and I didn't grow up in an environment where
29:49
I had my emotional needs met. For the most part, I'm not, you
29:53
know, nothing is all good or all bad, right?
29:56
And I never want to take away the good experiences from
29:58
someone. But we also want to look at what
30:00
didn't work and how's that impacting us now.
30:03
So, but my experience is, is that it's never too late to
30:08
build a healthy relationship with your child and turn the
30:12
tide. You know, there were a lot of
30:14
holes in the way that I was parenting.
30:16
I didn't, I just didn't know how to be emotionally supportive.
30:20
In my mind, it was like you just create the right environment.
30:23
You have family dinners, you know, they wear clean, nice
30:27
clothes to school. You put them in a good school
30:29
and then everything works out. And that unfortunately wasn't,
30:33
you know, the case. And So what leads to, you know,
30:37
where do where does this all breakdown?
30:39
Well, first of all, shame is probably the biggest factor in
30:44
an emotionally unsafe environment.
30:46
If you're getting messages that some or all of you is shameful
30:51
or bad, you will start to hide those parts and that will cause
30:55
all sorts of problems. The way that parents shame is
31:00
invalidating emotions. You know, you, you get upset,
31:03
you hit your brother and you hear you're bad for doing that.
31:08
How can you treat your little brother like that?
31:10
Or that's not we what we do in this house.
31:12
We don't hit you need to go to your room just straight, you
31:16
know, punishment and none of these things are necessary.
31:20
You know, some of that is pretty unhealthy, but consequences,
31:25
things like that, you know those things, there's a there's a room
31:28
for that, But what needs to happen first is let's tend to
31:31
the emotion because the emotions very alive and nothing sticks if
31:36
that kid doesn't feel safe 1st. And So what that kid needs to
31:40
hear is, oh, you're feeling really upset right now.
31:44
I get that. What happened?
31:46
You know what happened right before you needed to hit your
31:48
brother? OK, that makes so much sense to
31:50
me. I would be mad too, if someone
31:53
came and I was in the kitchen making cookies and someone came
31:56
in and took the pan and just threw the cookies across the
31:59
kitchen, right? So it makes sense to me that you
32:01
wouldn't want your Lego tower, you know, crash down and at the
32:07
same time, we don't hit, we don't do that.
32:11
And you know, that's not an an OK way to handle your feelings.
32:15
And let's talk about what we can do differently.
32:17
Let's, you know, apologize or that from that place you can
32:20
kind of go into the problem solving piece of it.
32:23
But there's just so much of that missing, especially, you know,
32:26
nowadays I think people are more savvy, but.
32:29
But let's say like the and that's a great scenario to use
32:32
and I'm sure any parent listening is familiar with a
32:34
version of it. But yeah, one of the little kids
32:37
is pummeling the other little kid.
32:39
You know, Lego tower was probably destroyed or something
32:42
else. Take that child off.
32:44
And I think the parents immediate response, your general
32:46
parent is I want to remove harm, stop the harm from happening,
32:51
you know, separate the children. But I think you're talking about
32:54
something in addition, which is acknowledge the frustration that
32:58
the, you know, offending child who is the one hitting in that
33:02
moment is feeling because something happened to incite
33:06
them to hit. So it's not just that child is a
33:08
bad egg and just likes to hit people, but there's something
33:11
underlying. There's something underlying the
33:14
why. And it's the job of the of the
33:16
parent to in that moment, you're saying discover the why.
33:19
Or do you do you just, you know, is it OK to just take a chill
33:22
pill for a minute and be like, Hey, you got to you need to go
33:25
sit in the corner for a minute and then you can have the
33:26
conversation. I mean, what if there, what if
33:28
there's a full blown tantrum happening in that in that
33:31
moment? Well, if there's a first of all,
33:33
safety first, right? If there's hitting happening,
33:37
the first thing we do is stop that.
33:40
And if, if a child is having a tantrum, you know, first of all,
33:44
I'm going to defer to Doctor Becky Kennedy who wrote the book
33:47
Good Inside, which I think is an incredible parenting book.
33:51
And it is very much in line with the work that I'm doing with
33:54
adults. If people were using that
33:57
philosophy to parent even not perfectly, but just using enough
34:00
of it, I wouldn't be, you know, I wouldn't have a job basically.
34:04
And so anyway to go backward if someone, if a child's having a
34:09
tantrum, and this is something that I have, you know, had a lot
34:12
of personal experience with is they need support in that
34:16
moment. You know, we have a tendency to
34:19
want to push them away when they're having a tantrum.
34:22
But what that child needs most is to be pulled closer.
34:26
Now, what does that look like? It might if the child is really
34:29
out of control and doesn't act like they want comfort.
34:32
It might look like just sitting with them and saying, OK, I'm
34:34
right here when you're ready, you know, not allowing them to
34:37
hurt something, not allowing them to be destructive, but
34:41
allowing them space to have their big feelings.
34:44
If they know it's safe, they're much more likely to, you know,
34:47
learn how to self soothe. If you're there supporting them.
34:51
It might look like, you know, it could look like a number of
34:54
things. I'm not a parenting expert in
34:58
the sense of giving people skills to learn how to manage
35:02
tantrums. Does that make sense?
35:03
That's why I'm deferring to Doctor Becky.
35:06
But the general rule is instead of sending the message you're
35:10
bad, you need to go handle this on your own.
35:13
We're sending the message I'm the wiser, stronger, other.
35:16
And I'm not going to let you hurt yourself and I'm not going
35:18
to let you hurt other people or hurt property.
35:21
But I'm right here with you and I'm, I'm right here with you as
35:26
you have these big feelings and I'm here to help you with it.
35:29
However, that ends up looking as we sit here together.
35:32
Well, it, it sounds like I, I actually, I'm a little familiar
35:35
with her work and we're going to get into more different
35:38
philosophies on parenting. So it's very fascinating to kind
35:40
of hear your, some of your foundational thoughts on that.
35:43
But, you know, moving to couples therapy, which of course is
35:46
where you're spending, you know, your expertise and, and your
35:49
focus. What does this look like?
35:52
Then you've got these different attachment styles.
35:54
You're sitting down with a couple who clearly is having
35:56
trouble in the relationship. That's why they showed up.
35:58
So what does it look like to use attachment styles to under?
36:04
You know, to understand and then to solve ongoing tensions in
36:08
relationships that the couple wants to solve?
36:12
OK, well, the first thing is, is before attachment theory became
36:15
popular with the general population, I never even told
36:18
people what their attachment style was.
36:20
So we, I'm not really necessarily working with
36:23
attachment styles. I'm working on what's showing up
36:26
in the relationship and what's showing up right in front of me
36:28
right here and now. If someone has escalated and
36:31
protesting, I'm going to work on that.
36:34
I don't need to put them in, you know, put a label on them.
36:37
Labels can help. I'm a big fan of labels when
36:39
they're helpful, but that's a little background.
36:43
First of all, my number one goal, my number one job is we
36:47
don't allow negative cycles in the session.
36:50
So negative cycles are when they go into that loop of protest,
36:54
offend, explain, try to convince out attorney, protest, get
36:59
upset, you know, and if I'm, if I, if I allow that to happen,
37:05
that is just reinforcing the problem.
37:07
Their neural pathways are doing the same thing that they do
37:09
outside of the session. So I do a lot of stabilizing at
37:12
first. It's very gentle, it's very
37:14
compassionate, it's very validating.
37:17
And that's how I get it. Get if you want to know how
37:21
Where I work with tantrums, it's with couples, not kids.
37:24
We're the biggest. We're the biggest toddlers.
37:27
Absolutely. That comes out, you know, that
37:30
nervous system, primitive nervous system stuff shows up in
37:33
adulthood. And so I, I hold that I make
37:37
space for it. I'll say talk to me, talk to me.
37:41
You know, they, they can't talk to each other if they, you know,
37:44
a lot of times I can't have couples talk to each other at
37:46
all at the beginning of the work.
37:49
And so I'm saying talk to me, talk to me.
37:51
And I just the first part of the work is stabilizing their
37:54
negative cycles, damage control. Let's get it to where you guys
37:59
don't go down this ugly Rd. When you try to talk about
38:01
difficult topics, that starts to pave the way for more
38:05
understanding, more empathy, and safer communication as they have
38:10
the ability to be safer and safely communicate.
38:14
Now we're creating space for more vulnerability to start
38:18
coming into the room. What are the damage control
38:21
tactics? Speaking from self, when you go
38:25
into a negative cycle, instead of saying you never want to
38:28
spend time with me, it's hey, you know, listen, first of all,
38:33
leading with some emotionally supportive validation.
38:35
I know you've got a lot going on at work and honestly, I
38:40
appreciate that about you. That's one of the things that I
38:43
fell in love with was your work ethic and how responsible you
38:46
are. And so I don't want to take away
38:49
from that. But at the same time, when we're
38:51
not, when I'm not getting my bucket filled for our time
38:54
together, you know, I start to feel kind of lonely.
38:57
And so how can we kind of work with each other?
38:59
That's probably going to, you know, it's going to increase the
39:02
odds of getting you to a better place.
39:04
Then you never want to spend time with me.
39:06
You're so selfish. All you care about is work.
39:09
And for the avoidant partner, it would look like, you know, the,
39:12
the let's say the anxious partner does show up in the
39:15
worst way possible and says, you never want to spend time with
39:17
me. The avoidant partner, instead of
39:19
getting defensive and shutting down, might say, all right, this
39:23
is one of those moments where we might be going into this cycle.
39:26
Let me just be curious about your experience, you know,
39:29
invalidate, of course you miss me.
39:31
I get that and I appreciate that about you.
39:34
I, I feel honored that I have a partner that wants to spend time
39:37
with me. You know, here's what's going on
39:40
for me. And let's let's that you sort of
39:43
create the foundation of safety. And then who knows how they
39:47
solve that problem, but they go into it as a team.
39:50
That's, you know, feeling connected instead of letting the
39:53
real enemy, which is the negative cycle in the way
39:56
they're communicating about the problem, get in the way.
39:59
There's more to it than that. There's a lot of uncovering of
40:02
some of the deeper stuff going on below the surface.
40:06
And that, yeah. So it's, it's really what we're
40:10
doing, and I can say this pretty succinctly, is we're maintaining
40:14
the attachment bond as they communicate with emotionally
40:18
supportive skills, behaviors and and words.
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41:02
And it sounds like in that in that case, it requires at least
41:05
one of them to start doing the work, you know, kind of raise
41:09
the white flag a little bit. And to say, you know, either the
41:13
thing of I'm so grateful for how hard you work, you know, showing
41:16
appreciation for the thing they're actually really
41:18
frustrated about, or, you know, the person who's wanting to run
41:21
away, actually showing up and listening.
41:23
But how do you get them to do that piece?
41:26
I mean, if you're dealing with you do it.
41:28
OK, that makes sense. So you're there kind of
41:30
shepherding that. Absolutely.
41:31
That's where we start. So I'm working with one partner
41:35
at a time and we're, we're fig. I am curious.
41:38
I'm stepping into the world. I want to know what happens with
41:40
you right in that moment when you, when your, when your
41:45
partner says this broccoli is a little overcooked.
41:49
I want to know what the meaning is.
41:50
You know, a lot of a lot. It's if, if there's a trigger
41:53
there, it's, it's not really about the broccoli.
41:57
It's about I feel unseen. I feel like you don't even care
42:00
to speak nicely to me, you know? I feel like my do my needs
42:03
matter to you? I feel unappreciated.
42:05
I don't even feel valuable right now.
42:07
What happens in your nervous system?
42:09
I do a lot of somatic work. What is that feeling in your
42:12
body communicating to us right now?
42:14
It's in really if I'm doing the work in the session.
42:18
It's what happens for you when your husband turns away from you
42:25
right now as you as you're complain, as you're, you know,
42:27
listing these complaints, right? What happens for you when they
42:31
turn away? Well, I get the the message that
42:34
they don't even want to be here. And what does that mean?
42:36
Well, they don't even care about the relationship.
42:39
They don't care about me. What happens in your nervous
42:41
system? What is your nervous system
42:42
telling us? Well, it's this is a process.
42:45
Obviously it's not this quick, but it's telling me, I'm afraid,
42:49
I'm afraid that they don't want to be here.
42:51
And what's that going to mean? There's so much richness in that
42:55
one little moment. There's a somatic piece.
42:58
There's a view itself. I want to stay up here and
43:00
blame. It's your fault for not caring.
43:03
But there's this other little part of me that says, what is it
43:05
about me that here I am in a situation once again where
43:09
they're turning away from me? What does that mean about me?
43:11
That's usually the bottom of the barrel.
43:13
And then we have the, you know, all the unmet attachment needs
43:16
that are going on in that moment.
43:18
To feel safe and close, I need to know that you're here with
43:21
me, that this relationship is valuable to you.
43:25
What are the preventive things that you recommend?
43:27
I mean, I think about, for example, the love languages,
43:30
because it sounds like a lot of this is like they don't feel
43:32
safe. You know, when the worst vicious
43:35
cycles start happening that you're trying to first stop the
43:38
vicious cycle and then actually address the conflict of what
43:41
needs to be sorted out. And obviously, in a healthy
43:43
situation, you just go right to let's address the conflict and
43:46
sort this out in a healthy way. But you know, from what, you
43:49
know, my own experience, you know, I'm married only five
43:52
years now. But in what I've seen and
43:53
learned from other couples is, you know, 1 core thing is you
43:57
have to care for the relationship proactively to
44:01
create that bondedness and that that connectivity.
44:05
What do you have recommendations in that space that you give
44:09
couples, generally speaking, for how to do that preventive work?
44:12
Preventative. Yeah, the the part that is the
44:16
good stuff instead of like just the damage control.
44:20
So first of all, after damage control comes bonding that then
44:25
it becomes the bonding phase of the therapy, getting down to the
44:28
deeper vulnerabilities, having people really truly learn,
44:32
having partners really, truly learn how to show up for each
44:35
other emotionally. How to, you know, the avoidant
44:38
partner starts to learn that, hey, their job and the therapy
44:41
isn't just to learn how to be more emotionally supportive of
44:44
the anxious partner. Their job is actually to learn
44:48
that they have emotional needs too, and they need support too,
44:51
and to allow that anxious partner in to help them and
44:54
balance that out. So I'm doing that, you know, as
44:57
the therapy goes on, that's a huge piece of it.
45:01
But yeah, I mean, I definitely encourage in the book I've
45:04
written that's coming out January 30th, I talk a lot
45:07
about, like, Nert, just nurturing the relationship.
45:11
You know, joy is bonding. Joy is a vulnerable emotion.
45:14
We need to be experiencing that together because it is emotional
45:19
connection. So how are we finding joy?
45:21
Laughing together, spending time together, nurturing the bond,
45:26
sex, any kind of physical closeness for most?
45:30
You know, something that most caught couples are needing, You
45:33
know, that's more of that prescriptive stuff.
45:35
You know, the love languages can help there.
45:38
I mean, if the couples really distress and they're in negative
45:40
cycles and there's so much attachment energy and unhealed
45:43
wounds underneath the surface, even either from their childhood
45:46
or built up wounds that they've done to each other in the
45:48
relationship, the love languages will not do much.
45:52
They'll, what they'll do is they'll become part of a
45:54
negative cycle. You're supposed to buy me gifts.
45:57
That's what the book says, right?
46:00
You know, a lot of times couples self help work and things and
46:04
even the work I do, you know, when you know, unfortunately
46:07
there I'm I can put all this information out there, but I'm
46:10
not really work. I can't work with every couple,
46:12
but even the work I do can start to get tied up in a negative
46:15
cycle. And so, yeah, does that answer
46:19
your question? I think so.
46:20
So what does the and what's the name of your book coming out,
46:22
Julie? Secure love.
46:24
OK. So you know, once you do that
46:26
initial damage control to get the negative, you know, downward
46:30
spiral to stop happening, you mentioned you, the next step is
46:34
you go into like we're going to build work on the secure bond
46:37
part. And So what are some of the ways
46:40
that you do that and what are some of the ways that couples
46:43
can work on that? Well, first of all, I help them
46:46
speak on a different level during triggers and conflictual
46:50
moments because that those moments are when we tap into the
46:55
most vulnerability. We're not experiencing
46:58
vulnerability when we're not triggered.
47:01
I mean, we might be experiencing a feeling of connectedness and a
47:05
felt sense, but that's not a problem, right?
47:07
So there's all of this really good bonding material.
47:11
I mean, think about when you cry with a friend and a friend is
47:13
comforting you. Think about when you watch a sad
47:16
movie and you're attuned, you're sad, right?
47:20
Why do people make sad movies? Because it gives us a felt sense
47:24
of connection. And so that's what I'm helping.
47:27
You know, there's so many parts of ourselves that we're just not
47:30
in touch with. And if we don't start digging
47:33
into that and putting words to it and getting the comfort for
47:37
those parts that we, some people have gone a lifetime without,
47:41
then that stuff is just going to show up all over the place in
47:46
that person's life and the relationship.
47:48
I mean, there's a saying I heard recently, and I really believe
47:51
this, that the root of all pathology is unexpressed fear,
47:54
because fear is an is creates anxiety.
47:57
It creates a constant, you know, or to varying degrees depending
48:01
on the person, but you know, flood of, of stress hormones.
48:07
And that just does a number on your hormones, on your brain
48:11
cells, on your neurotransmitters, on your body,
48:13
on your health. And so if we can get people to
48:18
get this Co regulation in their relationship, which does require
48:22
self regulation, again, we all have this relationship with
48:24
ourselves that we need to be working on too so that we can
48:28
put this work into practice. Then it's just it's nervous
48:33
system work. You know, at the end of the day,
48:35
this is all nervous system work. And so many practitioners are
48:38
addressing nervous systems right now.
48:40
We have massage therapist, we have somatic therapist,
48:44
cognitive behavioral. I mean, it's all meant at the
48:46
end of the day to address nervous systems and the way I do
48:50
that is to help couples Co regulate each other and not
48:55
regulate each other. And we can get obviously trauma
48:58
and relationship patterns can create a habit of emotion, you
49:03
know, and that goes back to kind of our, you know, the way our
49:06
nervous system is, you know, prime to react or regularly
49:09
reacts. Like why do I suddenly feel
49:11
anxious or fearful or stressed in these different circumstances
49:14
or when certain triggers hit me? But, you know, the root of that
49:17
to begin with was a thought, right?
49:19
It was initially, you know, the thought, the power of a thought
49:22
that then you don't even need the thought.
49:24
The emotion just comes anyways. But it sounds like a lot of this
49:27
too, is the way you view yourself and the way you view
49:29
your partner. And I'm, I'm imagine a lot of
49:32
your work is really, you know, talking through the way that you
49:36
see the relationship, yourself, your partner.
49:39
What are some of the things that you recommend for couples in the
49:42
way in their self talk and then in how they think about the the
49:46
thoughts that they're engaging with about their significant
49:49
other? Well, one thing that I work on a
49:51
lot is anxious partners are particularly prone to this, but
49:56
avoidant partners can do it too, is what's called filtering for
49:59
the negative. So if you grew up in an
50:02
environment with a lot of threat, either emotional threats
50:05
of emotional and safety or even threats of physical harm,
50:09
threats of being verbally attacked, it's all emotional at
50:13
the end of the day too. You're going to be scanning for
50:16
safety a lot of the time because that's how you had to survive.
50:19
That's how you stayed safe is I'm scanning for safety so I can
50:22
prevent bad things from happening.
50:25
If you take that into your relationship and you're
50:28
constantly scanning for safety, what are you going to see?
50:31
You're going to see the things, the areas where your partner is
50:34
is dropping the ball or getting it wrong.
50:36
You. It might be ways that are
50:38
stemming from realistic expectations, and some people
50:41
have really unrealistic expectations.
50:44
Now you're going to be communicating based on that
50:46
model that you've built, which is they're always letting me
50:49
down. So your partner does, you know,
50:51
10 things in a day. Nine of them are supportive.
50:54
And the one air, the one time that they drop the ball, that's
50:58
what you bring up to them. What's going to happen?
51:00
They're going to start to feel demoralized and like no matter
51:03
what I do, I can't get it right. I can't be perfect.
51:07
So yeah, I definitely work on a lot of that.
51:09
I'm looking at anything that is what I call a move in the
51:15
negative cycle that is coming from somewhere.
51:20
So filtering for the negative, absolutely, I'm going to be
51:23
looking for why did you need to learn to think negatively about
51:28
yourself? What's the function of that?
51:30
Why do you need in your relationship to see your partner
51:34
chronically through this negative lens?
51:36
Where's the safety in that? Everything has a very, very good
51:39
reason, and I need to figure out what that reason is so I can
51:42
help them get that need met in a way that isn't actually
51:45
counterproductive. What's your advice to someone
51:49
who would like to go to couples therapy?
51:51
They'd love that, but the other part of their couple is not
51:55
interested. They don't see the need or the
51:57
hostility has reached a point where they're not willing to go
51:59
or there's, you know, other issues in the relationship.
52:03
Great question. So the the term it takes to is
52:08
very much true, but sometimes it gets taken out of context
52:11
because it doesn't take to to get the ball rolling toward
52:15
health. It does take to ultimately to
52:18
have a safe and close securely attached relationship.
52:21
It is not possible to have a securedly attached relationship
52:25
if the other partner isn't doing the work, if they're not self
52:28
regulating, if they're not trying to grow and try new
52:31
things. However, there is a lot to be
52:34
said for one partner to step, excuse me, step back.
52:40
Focus on becoming their best self.
52:42
Get themselves out of the negative cycle so that they are
52:46
no longer reinforcing the problem.
52:48
Learn new ways to communicate. It's very difficult when you
52:52
don't have a partner on board with you because you just want
52:55
to get pulled. The negative cycle can feel
52:57
very, very safe. People wouldn't do it if it
52:59
didn't feel safe and comfortable.
53:01
So you have to kind of make this commitment.
53:03
I'm going to start changing on my side of the street over here,
53:06
whatever, regardless of what they're doing.
53:08
And that's really the only, you know, changing yourself for the,
53:14
you know, predominant reason of changing your partner is not
53:17
really, that's kind of that way of thinking about it doesn't
53:21
really change. I mean, it can get the ball
53:23
rolling, but really we need to be changing because we want to
53:27
have a good relationship with ourself.
53:28
We want to have a good relationship with other people
53:31
in the world or, you know, should we find ourselves in a
53:33
relationship in the future or we have we've been practicing being
53:37
our best selves. You know, there are there
53:40
guarantees? Absolutely not.
53:42
There's no guarantee that any relationship advice out there
53:46
will work. What we can do is we can
53:49
increase the odds, and I think that this work, when used
53:53
properly and even not perfectly, but when it's used in a good
53:59
enough way, is going to increase the odds more than any other
54:03
type of work because you're getting down to the root.
54:06
You're not viewing your partner as an enemy.
54:08
I've got to set boundaries or I've got to learn to speak like
54:10
a robot, or I'm just going to learn to say these things in a
54:13
new way and that's going to cure everything.
54:16
It's a really much. It's just a deep, much, much
54:19
deeper dive into the process. Julie, where can people find
54:24
your work and learn more about both themselves becoming
54:28
stronger and healthier and they're, you know, how to
54:30
improve together with their significant other, their
54:33
relationship? OK so I have an Instagram
54:37
account that I started in 2020 after I was working with couples
54:41
for a long time. I started my someone suggested I
54:45
start an Instagram account. Didn't really know what that
54:48
was. And I mean, kind of, I was like,
54:50
this is for kids got on there and I was like, oh, I have to
54:53
put something on here if I have the account right.
54:56
And so I just started drawing little cartoons to help people
54:59
understand this attachment stuff.
55:01
And so that really blew up pretty quickly.
55:04
And there's a lot to offer on that account.
55:06
A lot. I mean, it is unbelievable how
55:09
much information I have on there.
55:10
So if you go to that account and there's a little start here
55:14
highlight and if you push that, that'll kind of get you up to
55:17
speed on all of this information landed the foundational
55:20
understanding of attachment theory and your relationship.
55:24
And from that I ended up starting a book.
55:27
I I spent three years writing a book to consolidate to sort of
55:32
consolidate everything I know how I work with couples, the
55:36
process that I take them through from beginning to end.
55:38
The self help version of that start starting with attachment
55:43
theory, kind of a, you know, a few pages of explanation there.
55:46
I know that can be kind of that science can be kind of boring
55:49
for people who are like, I just want help.
55:52
But then we go into all the different attachment styles.
55:55
What your childhood environment was probably like, you're
55:58
probably going to, you know, relate to more than a few
56:00
things. I talked about how these
56:02
attachment styles are showing up in your relationship.
56:04
Now let's stabilize your negative cycle.
56:07
Now let's start to learn to repair the negative cycle.
56:10
All couples have negative cycles.
56:12
The healthiest of couples will have negative cycles.
56:15
It's not about not having them. It's about it's about fewer and
56:19
less escalated and repairing them.
56:22
Full repairs. Then we go into attachment
56:25
injuries, which are really old wounds that people have built
56:29
up, you know, things that they just aren't over that we can't
56:32
really talk about unless we start to have some safety around
56:35
the topic. You didn't show up in the
56:37
hospital until I was, you know, 8 centimeters dilated because of
56:41
you, you had to do something for work or an affair or just major
56:45
betrayals, feelings of major betrayals, which are very
56:48
subjective. And then we go into sex and some
56:53
other sort of like extenuating circumstances, mental illness,
56:57
personality disorders, substance abuse.
57:00
And then I have an entire chapter with scripts.
57:04
People love scripts. Some people are like, I would
57:08
never say it this way. So I would say, look, I don't
57:10
know how you speak. I can't speak for everybody's,
57:14
you know, way of speaking. But I put it out there very
57:16
generically kind of what I said to you about, hey, I know you're
57:19
busy, I know you're working hard here, but here's what's
57:22
happening for me. And so I just do a whole chapter
57:25
on what if you're annoyed with your partner?
57:27
What if your partner, you know, lets you down?
57:30
And I give a few different examples of ways that you can
57:33
rephrase it just to sort of take them in and let them become your
57:36
own overtime. Yeah.
57:38
So that's, it's called Secure Love.
57:40
And it's available for pre-order everywhere books are sold.
57:45
We've got dozens of languages and you know, it's, it's pretty
57:50
exciting. Thanks, Julie.
57:52
Well, we're excited to hopefully have you back on the podcast
57:55
when your book comes out and deep dive it even more.
57:59
But thanks so much for providing this overview for our audience
58:02
and keep up the great work. Thank you.
58:06
Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Lila Rose
58:09
Podcast. Don't forget to subscribe
58:11
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58:13
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58:15
And we'll see you next time.