Latest / The Ben Ferguson Podcast / IT IS TIME TO LAWYER UP against MANDATES! We have a Top Lawyer on Today Explaining how to FIGHT AND WIN on Vaccine MANDATES!

Transcript

IT IS TIME TO LAWYER UP against MANDATES! We have a Top Lawyer on Today Explaining how to FIGHT AND WIN on Vaccine MANDATES! · The Ben Ferguson Podcast

0:00
Speaker 1: There are so many Americans right now that are being
0:03
Speaker 1: forced to deal with a really tough issue of vaccine
0:07
Speaker 1: mandates by their companies. What are your rights? How do
0:12
Speaker 1: you fight back? How do you get a religious exemption?
0:15
Speaker 1: We are going to be joined in just a moment
0:17
Speaker 1: by the managing attorney for the Liberty Justice Center that
0:21
Speaker 1: is going to explain to what your constitutional rights are,
0:24
Speaker 1: how to fight for religious exemption. If you're denied a
0:26
Speaker 1: religious exemption, what you do, how important it is to
0:29
Speaker 1: fill out your paperwork the right way for a religious exemption?
0:32
Speaker 1: And how do you organize with people that you work with.
0:36
Speaker 1: Why are we doing this so hopefully we can stop
0:39
Speaker 1: hearing these tragic stories that we are witnessing. A veteran
0:43
Speaker 1: police officer has gone viral. He has been fired because
0:49
Speaker 1: of the vaccine mandate. Refusing to get that vaccine. He
0:53
Speaker 1: had his final sign off from the radio. This is
0:57
Speaker 1: happening all over the country. Listen, this is my final
1:02
Speaker 1: sign off after twenty two years of serving the citizens
1:05
Speaker 1: of the state of Washington, being asked to leave because
1:09
Speaker 1: I am dirty. Numerous fatalities, injuries, have worked sick, I've
1:15
Speaker 1: played sick, We've buried lots of friends over these years.
1:20
Speaker 1: I'd like to thank you, guys. I'd like to thank
1:22
Speaker 1: the citizens of Yakima County as well as my fellow
1:26
Speaker 1: officers within the valley. Without you, guys, I would have
1:29
Speaker 1: been very successful. And you've kept me safe and got
1:32
Speaker 1: me home to my family every night. Thank you for that.
1:38
Speaker 1: I wish I could say more, but um, this is it.
1:40
Speaker 1: So State ten thirty four, this is the last time
1:43
Speaker 1: you'll hear me in a state patrol cart, and Jay
1:46
Speaker 1: Ansley can kiss my ass. Jay Ansley, the governor of
1:56
Speaker 1: the state. Where this veteran police officer who has given
1:59
Speaker 1: his entire life And I played that there for you
2:04
Speaker 1: because I think it's important for you to hear what
2:06
Speaker 1: he said. That police officer then dropped his handset in
2:12
Speaker 1: his police car his final sign off and had this
2:17
Speaker 1: to say afterwards to the camera that he was using
2:20
Speaker 1: to film it, And thank you for your twenty two
2:23
Speaker 1: years and five months of service to the citizens of
2:25
Speaker 1: Washington State. You've taken on many roles in your time
2:28
Speaker 1: with patrol. In your first year, you delivered a babby
2:30
Speaker 1: while on patrol, and Bremerton, you've been a dairy dairy
2:34
Speaker 1: instructor certified Technical Specialist and reconstructionist, her support member, part
2:39
Speaker 1: of the Chaplain State Board, and a CBD trooper. You've
2:42
Speaker 1: been a great role model and mentor for all your
2:44
Speaker 1: troopers serving in the area by sharing your knowledge and
2:46
Speaker 1: experience throughout the years. Thank you for your service. Nineteen
2:50
Speaker 1: thirty six. Thank you for your service. You can hear
2:55
Speaker 1: the people responding that have worked with this man for
2:58
Speaker 1: two decades plus. This is a man that just wants
3:02
Speaker 1: to serve his community, who's lost his job because of
3:05
Speaker 1: a government overreach and a mandate. Now that's state true.
3:09
Speaker 1: Per I just played for you, is not the only
3:11
Speaker 1: one that is losing his job right now or has
3:13
Speaker 1: lost their job because of this mandate. And you had
3:16
Speaker 1: to get vaccinated under Governor Insley's vaccine mandate by the eighteenth.
3:22
Speaker 1: Another Washington State Patrol officer, in response to Governor Enley's
3:26
Speaker 1: Insley's vaccine mandate, used his radio to sign off as well.
3:31
Speaker 1: He's been fired, dude, and my personal choice to take
3:35
Speaker 1: a moral stand against for medical freedom and personal choice.
3:43
Speaker 1: I will be signing out of service for the last
3:45
Speaker 1: time today after nearly seventeen years of serving the citizens
3:49
Speaker 1: of the state of Washington. There has been my honor
3:51
Speaker 1: and privileged to work alongside all of you. I want
3:54
Speaker 1: to take a moment to thank those that it helped
3:57
Speaker 1: me to be successful, to be safe, and to go
4:00
Speaker 1: home every day at the end of each shift to
4:03
Speaker 1: hear the RiPP hear the ripping of that bell girl
4:07
Speaker 1: is a relief to my wife and kids. I want
4:10
Speaker 1: to admonish each of you knowing that despite what the
4:15
Speaker 1: press releases and the news conferences are saying to downplay
4:18
Speaker 1: this role, we all know in this district on the nineteenth,
4:22
Speaker 1: there will be fifty one of the seventy five troopers
4:25
Speaker 1: available and only seven of the eleven sergeants. So please
4:30
Speaker 1: please please take care of each other. So please take
4:36
Speaker 1: care of each other, be safe, to make sure you
4:41
Speaker 1: all go home at the end of each day. Again,
4:45
Speaker 1: thank you to each and every one of you that
4:46
Speaker 1: stood alongside me and that we have helped each other out.
4:50
Speaker 1: But as for me, I am out of service and
4:53
Speaker 1: on to new adventures on behalf of your defense co workers,
5:02
Speaker 1: I want to think you've been a pleasure to work
5:04
Speaker 1: with for the last almost in neteen years. You've accomplished
5:08
Speaker 1: great things here and building making friendships along the way
5:13
Speaker 1: you've let your crew in d I R S r
5:15
Speaker 1: F T year, been an sto at r E and
5:20
Speaker 1: your support member, and most recently made starts up last year.
5:25
Speaker 1: This agency is losing an outstanding, hard working, determined, in
5:29
Speaker 1: carrying individuals. I'm honored to have been your despatchers, but
5:33
Speaker 1: mostly had to be your wife. Our future is bright.
5:37
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your service one end, and
5:42
Speaker 1: thank you for yours ever be by my side. I
5:49
Speaker 1: want you to imagine being that husband and making that
5:58
Speaker 1: call to the radio dispatcher who's your wife, because that's
6:04
Speaker 1: what just happened. I get choked up because I have
6:11
Speaker 1: family that's worked in law enforcement, and no one that
6:17
Speaker 1: dials nine one one that needs this police officer or
6:21
Speaker 1: his wife gives a crap if they're vaccinated or not.
6:28
Speaker 1: No one's calling nine one one they're under attack, when
6:35
Speaker 1: they're being raped, when they're being assaulted, when their backdoor
6:39
Speaker 1: front doors being kicked in, when they're being carjacked, when
6:42
Speaker 1: their business is being robbed, and says please only send
6:44
Speaker 1: a police officer who is vaccinated. When you dial nine
6:49
Speaker 1: one one and you talk to a dispatcher, you're not
6:51
Speaker 1: asking that dispatcher if they are vaccinated. That is a
6:56
Speaker 1: man quitting his job, are being fired, a man that
7:03
Speaker 1: is being fired and having to tell his wife it's
7:07
Speaker 1: his last radio call. You have a man and a
7:10
Speaker 1: woman serving their state and we're firing them because of
7:17
Speaker 1: a craze governor and a leftist group of individuals starting
7:23
Speaker 1: at the top with Joe Biden, who are obsessed with
7:26
Speaker 1: controlling every aspect of your life. Again, thank you, teach
7:32
Speaker 1: and every one of you just did alongside me and
7:35
Speaker 1: that we have helped each other out. But as for me,
7:38
Speaker 1: I am out of service and aunt new adventures on
7:46
Speaker 1: behalf of your defied co workers. I want to say
7:49
Speaker 1: you've been a person to work with for the last
7:52
Speaker 1: almost for that teen years, even accomplished great things here
7:56
Speaker 1: and build amazing friendships along the way. You let your
8:00
Speaker 1: crew into I R s here s to hear, been
8:03
Speaker 1: an STOTR, I'm your support member and most recently they
8:09
Speaker 1: start at last year. This agency is losing an outstanding,
8:13
Speaker 1: hard working, determined and caring individuals. I'm honored to have
8:18
Speaker 1: been a despatcher, but mostly tried to be your wife.
8:21
Speaker 1: Our future is right. Thank you so much for your service,
8:25
Speaker 1: my friend. Our future is bright. This is a woman
8:33
Speaker 1: and a man, and I do get choked up. This
8:40
Speaker 1: is a woman and a man who have served their
8:44
Speaker 1: community and we are allowing them to be fired because
8:48
Speaker 1: they won't get a vaccine. God help our society. There
8:57
Speaker 1: are men and women all over the country right now
9:01
Speaker 1: that this is happening too. There are men and women
9:05
Speaker 1: who are being fired as we speak, who are serving
9:09
Speaker 1: and protecting us because of government overreach. The White House
9:16
Speaker 1: says Biden not wearing a mask in a restaurant was
9:19
Speaker 1: just a moment in time, and to calm down. You
9:21
Speaker 1: don't wear a mask'll shut down your restaurant. Jensaki, brushing
9:26
Speaker 1: off that video of Biden violating the DC mass mandate.
9:30
Speaker 1: Don't overly focus, she says, on a moment in time,
9:34
Speaker 1: because remember, they're different than you are. Can they fire
9:38
Speaker 1: you yes? Can they ruin your life, your family's life, yes.
9:43
Speaker 1: Do they have a problem, Do they have any soul?
9:45
Speaker 1: No they don't. These are good men and women who
9:51
Speaker 1: are being fired. It's not just the police officers, it's others.
9:57
Speaker 1: Washington State just fire their head football coach for assistance
10:00
Speaker 1: for refusing the drab jab. They're heroes, by the way,
10:07
Speaker 1: we better hurry up and stand up folks. Now, the
10:11
Speaker 1: question is how do you fight back? There have been
10:15
Speaker 1: a lot of you that have been reaching out and
10:17
Speaker 1: asking about your rights. What are your rights? What are
10:22
Speaker 1: your religious rights? How do you fight back when someone
10:27
Speaker 1: comes in and tells you you either get this vaccine
10:30
Speaker 1: or you will be unemployed. We will fire you, and
10:32
Speaker 1: if we fire you, many of you won't even be
10:35
Speaker 1: eligible for unemployment benefits. One of you just sent me
10:39
Speaker 1: this note. I know I should have been investating this earlier,
10:43
Speaker 1: but no one else has refused besides me, and so
10:48
Speaker 1: I really don't know what to do. Referring to refusing
10:51
Speaker 1: to get vaccinated at work, I'm wondering about what others
10:55
Speaker 1: are doing. From googling it, it sounds like everyone is
10:59
Speaker 1: getting to nied their religious exemptions. So how do you
11:04
Speaker 1: even get a religious exemption? Exemption? In many businesses, it
11:07
Speaker 1: seems like are just saying automatic knows to religious exemptions.
11:13
Speaker 1: Joining me now to talk about your rights is a
11:18
Speaker 1: man that works with the Liberty Justice Center. They just
11:22
Speaker 1: filed a case on behalf of six nurses in Illinois
11:25
Speaker 1: who were required to get vaccinated or lose their jobs,
11:29
Speaker 1: all religious or conscience exemptions requests have been denied. The
11:35
Speaker 1: nurses sued the hospital for the blanket denial of religious
11:39
Speaker 1: vaccine exemptions. The man who's working on this, Daniel Sir,
11:43
Speaker 1: is the managing attorney for the Liberty Justice Center. Daniel,
11:47
Speaker 1: I appreciate you coming on, and I've got a lot
11:49
Speaker 1: of questions, so i want to start with the basic premise.
11:54
Speaker 1: Explain to everyone that is listening right now, what are
12:00
Speaker 1: your rights, everybody's rights when it comes to requesting a
12:05
Speaker 1: religious exemption. Let's start with that. Yeah, absolutely, Benn, and
12:10
Speaker 1: thanks for having me on the program this morning, and
12:12
Speaker 1: I'm glad you have because it's such an important topic.
12:16
Speaker 1: The sanctity of conscience is one of our fundamental rights
12:19
Speaker 1: as Americans. There's a reason that religious liberty comes at
12:23
Speaker 1: the beginning of the First Amendment. It's something that we
12:26
Speaker 1: value as a society, and it's something that we should
12:29
Speaker 1: expect not only our government, but also our employers to respect,
12:33
Speaker 1: because nobody should have to choose between their job and
12:38
Speaker 1: their faith. And so for all of us across the country,
12:42
Speaker 1: there's a federal law called Title seven, and it says
12:46
Speaker 1: that your employer has to make reasonable accommodations of your
12:52
Speaker 1: religious faith, and so it's being litigated in courts right
12:56
Speaker 1: now across the country to ask this question of how
13:01
Speaker 1: reasonable accommodation works in a vaccine context. And I think
13:07
Speaker 1: what's most important is that they have to make an
13:11
Speaker 1: individualized assessment of what's reasonable in your situation. All of
13:16
Speaker 1: us work in a different environment, and so it might
13:19
Speaker 1: be for a particular person's job that wearing a mask,
13:24
Speaker 1: or working from home, or working a different shift. Like,
13:28
Speaker 1: there are lots of different ways that people can reasonably
13:33
Speaker 1: stay safe and at the same time keep their job
13:36
Speaker 1: without compromising their beliefs. I'll give you an example of
13:40
Speaker 1: another question I got to ask. Was there was employee
13:42
Speaker 1: at a hospital in Alabama. She doesn't go to the
13:46
Speaker 1: hospital anymore. She does billing and collections from home. She
13:49
Speaker 1: hasn't been the hospital now in almost two years. She
13:52
Speaker 1: is now being mandated to get a vaccine. She will
13:55
Speaker 1: get fired from her job even though she doesn't even
13:57
Speaker 1: work in the hospital. She is applied for religious exemption
14:00
Speaker 1: and it was immediately denied. What is the next course
14:04
Speaker 1: of action for someone like that? Yeah, that's an important question,
14:09
Speaker 1: and it's a sad story, right this just shows I
14:12
Speaker 1: think the craziness that some employers have just been slept
14:18
Speaker 1: up in that's really going across our society, this overreach
14:23
Speaker 1: that they feel like they can can dictate these things
14:26
Speaker 1: to people, and they can't, and they shouldn't. Everybody should
14:29
Speaker 1: have a right to keep their faith and their job.
14:33
Speaker 1: And for someone like that, you know, I would I
14:35
Speaker 1: would encourage them to reach out to legal counsel. Were
14:38
Speaker 1: Liberty Justice Center our websites Liberty Justice Center dot org. Again,
14:44
Speaker 1: that's Liberty Justice Center dot org. But there are a
14:47
Speaker 1: lot of other organizations doing great work in this space
14:51
Speaker 1: on behalf of religious liberty and the rights of conscience
14:54
Speaker 1: for individuals. But you should reach out to a nonprofit
14:58
Speaker 1: organization that in religious liberty. Tell your story. I'll warn
15:03
Speaker 1: you there are lots of these cases coming in right now.
15:06
Speaker 1: But I think that is just indicative of how important
15:09
Speaker 1: it is for really the Supreme Court eventually to take
15:14
Speaker 1: one of these cases and set down a national rule
15:17
Speaker 1: that clarifies and reinforces the rights of conscience. Well, let's
15:21
Speaker 1: talk about United for a second. Six brave employees there
15:25
Speaker 1: decide to sue with their vaccine mandates where they got
15:29
Speaker 1: a judge who did a basically a pause while they
15:32
Speaker 1: kind of work through this so that they wouldn't lose
15:35
Speaker 1: their jobs or be forced to get a vaccine by
15:38
Speaker 1: the arbitrary date that was set by the company. And
15:41
Speaker 1: it just took six brave people to do this. You
15:44
Speaker 1: look at the six people that you guys are representing now,
15:48
Speaker 1: these six nurses in Illinois who were required to get
15:51
Speaker 1: a vaccine or lose their jobs. You guys are representing them. Now,
15:54
Speaker 1: what is happening with that case? And it seems like
15:56
Speaker 1: if you just will your up, there's a very good
16:00
Speaker 1: hands today court is going to say pause, hold on
16:02
Speaker 1: a second. We're we're gonna work through this in the
16:05
Speaker 1: appropriate manner and not just say you're going to get
16:08
Speaker 1: fired by January the second, or June third, or whatever
16:11
Speaker 1: the date is. You get my point. I do, Ben,
16:15
Speaker 1: and I think it's important, you know, highlights the fact
16:18
Speaker 1: that we're acting like this is a crisis that it
16:21
Speaker 1: has to be resolved tomorrow. And the reality is we've
16:24
Speaker 1: had vaccines for months now, We've been living in this
16:29
Speaker 1: pandemic four months now, and so the idea that all
16:33
Speaker 1: of a sudden, President Biden says on September ninth, we're
16:38
Speaker 1: going to have employer mandates, and yet his own administration
16:43
Speaker 1: has not issued the rule that is supposedly an emergency
16:48
Speaker 1: over a month later, which I think really just betrays
16:52
Speaker 1: that they want these companies to do the dirty work
16:55
Speaker 1: so the companies get sued rather than having us sue
16:58
Speaker 1: the federal government, which is where the real problem starts
17:01
Speaker 1: in terms of this massive overreach into people's lives. But
17:05
Speaker 1: for our nurses, I represent six wonderful nurses at Riverside
17:10
Speaker 1: Hospital in Kankakee, Illinois. They have been on the front
17:14
Speaker 1: lines of this pandemic day in and day out, showing
17:18
Speaker 1: up to serve patients for the last twenty months. And
17:22
Speaker 1: their hospital is going to throw all of that aside
17:25
Speaker 1: because they are unwilling to compromise their convictions. That's not
17:29
Speaker 1: just wrong, it's illegal. And this is one of those
17:33
Speaker 1: moments where the law protects people like these nurses so
17:38
Speaker 1: they don't have to choose between their faith and their job.
17:43
Speaker 1: It is amazing to me how many people are losing
17:47
Speaker 1: their jobs because of these push in dates, and they're
17:51
Speaker 1: being pushed on them. Yesterday we saw a significant number
17:57
Speaker 1: in Seattle of police officers it resigned. They resigned and
18:03
Speaker 1: made their last radio call, some of them after eighteen years,
18:05
Speaker 1: twenty one years because the vaccine mandates. We're seeing this
18:08
Speaker 1: happen all over the country where people are being forced
18:13
Speaker 1: Is there any way to get those jobs back after
18:15
Speaker 1: you quit? So the law allows for a judge to
18:21
Speaker 1: order reinstatement, so it's certainly possible. But I just I
18:26
Speaker 1: really admire all of these people who are standing up
18:28
Speaker 1: for their rights. Minute, let's just be honest, Ben, It's
18:32
Speaker 1: it's hard to choose, you know, to be in this situation.
18:35
Speaker 1: It's it's coercive pressure that people are feeling, and to
18:41
Speaker 1: stand up for your rights even when it's hard, even
18:44
Speaker 1: once it's unpopular to seek out a lawyer and potentially
18:50
Speaker 1: file a case like these are important, major life choices.
18:55
Speaker 1: But I think it reflects just how deeply and how
18:58
Speaker 1: sincerely people hold these beliefs. People hold these convictions, and
19:04
Speaker 1: those are precisely the sort of convictions we as a
19:07
Speaker 1: society should give the most respect and the law protexts. Daniel,
19:14
Speaker 1: I want to go back to an important question. So
19:19
Speaker 1: many people want to know when you apply for a
19:21
Speaker 1: religious exemption, do you or should you get the ability
19:28
Speaker 1: to present your case in person or is it just
19:30
Speaker 1: through writing? Because there's a lot of people that I
19:33
Speaker 1: have talked to that said they don't feel like the
19:35
Speaker 1: paperwork gives a personality to their claim to their case,
19:41
Speaker 1: and they're just filling out paperwork and then they're getting
19:43
Speaker 1: back denied in an email and they're like, I didn't
19:46
Speaker 1: meet with anybody, I didn't get talk to anybody. What
19:48
Speaker 1: are your rights when it comes to even getting to
19:51
Speaker 1: vocally explain your reasoning behind requesting a religious exemption. It's
20:00
Speaker 1: a great question, and I wish I could give you
20:03
Speaker 1: a clear answer. I would say that there's certainly a
20:06
Speaker 1: best practice that employers should hear people out, not just
20:11
Speaker 1: through the paper, but through a conversation. I know many
20:15
Speaker 1: employers do, but for those employers who don't, it is
20:18
Speaker 1: certainly a best practice. I think the touchstones of this
20:23
Speaker 1: sort of analysis from the employer's perspective. If I'm a
20:29
Speaker 1: lawyer for a company, I'm really looking at three questions.
20:35
Speaker 1: The first is, is this person sincere? You know, we're
20:39
Speaker 1: in a moment right now in our culture where where
20:42
Speaker 1: I think employers feel this media story that there are
20:47
Speaker 1: a lot of insincere claims of religious exemption, and so
20:52
Speaker 1: they want to make sure that the claim is sincere.
20:56
Speaker 1: And you know, it's helpful to be able to explain
20:58
Speaker 1: in your own words, you know why your faith leads
21:01
Speaker 1: you to this conviction. The second question is what's the
21:06
Speaker 1: burden on the employer? You know, is this the sort
21:09
Speaker 1: of thing that's going to create real, real headaches for
21:13
Speaker 1: the employer? And I think outside of the healthcare context,
21:18
Speaker 1: you know, common sense would say no, but obviously, you know,
21:22
Speaker 1: everybody's in a different situation. And then a third and
21:25
Speaker 1: equally important question, and I think really why an individualized
21:28
Speaker 1: assessment of each employee is important is to ask what
21:33
Speaker 1: are the reasonable accommodations that can be made? Are there
21:37
Speaker 1: any adjustments here can we physically socially? I was gonna say,
21:41
Speaker 1: let's let's talk about that. Man, what is a when
21:43
Speaker 1: you say a reasonable accommodation? One? Explain that right please?
21:48
Speaker 1: And two then Layman's terms, even more so, how that
21:53
Speaker 1: isn't what what that looks like in the real world.
21:57
Speaker 1: I think it's common sense. The reality as we've all
22:01
Speaker 1: been living unvaccinated through at least a large part of
22:05
Speaker 1: the pandemic because there was no vaccine, right, and so
22:08
Speaker 1: we put in place the procedures that could best accommodate,
22:13
Speaker 1: could best protect people UM, knowing that that there was
22:17
Speaker 1: this virus on the loose. And so we we've seen
22:20
Speaker 1: with our own eyes with common sense that through physical distancing,
22:25
Speaker 1: through handwashing, through UM even some more significant kind of
22:31
Speaker 1: changes in our routines like telework UM, there are are
22:37
Speaker 1: simple common sense steps we can take to minimize risk.
22:41
Speaker 1: And so I think if your your example earlier been
22:43
Speaker 1: your caller who you know works from home, If if
22:47
Speaker 1: you're that person and you're not going into a work
22:50
Speaker 1: setting like that seems like an incredibly strong case for
22:55
Speaker 1: a reasonable accommodation. And it's important because that it's unique
23:00
Speaker 1: to you, because your situation is yours alone, that employers
23:06
Speaker 1: perform this sort of individualized assessment to figure out, you know,
23:10
Speaker 1: how can we work with you in a reasonable common
23:12
Speaker 1: sense way to keep your coworkers safe and keep you
23:16
Speaker 1: safe while still respecting your religious belief Let's talk about
23:20
Speaker 1: if you are listening right now and you say I'm
23:24
Speaker 1: not religious, right, I'm not one that is going I'm agnostic,
23:28
Speaker 1: or I don't really believe in God, there could be
23:31
Speaker 1: a hundred different scenarios, but I think I've paint that
23:32
Speaker 1: picture pretty clear. My point, you're not a religious person.
23:35
Speaker 1: Everybody knows you're not a religious person. What are your
23:38
Speaker 1: options if it goes against your conscience because you don't
23:43
Speaker 1: have to be religious to be to have a contents
23:47
Speaker 1: or say no, right, Maybe you've maybe you feel like,
23:50
Speaker 1: because you've already gotten COVID nineteen or the delta variant,
23:53
Speaker 1: that you shouldn't be forced to get that vaccine because
23:55
Speaker 1: you already have some sort of some capacity of natural
23:58
Speaker 1: immunity at this point, because you've already been infected. Maybe
24:02
Speaker 1: I'll give you another example. A listener said she lost
24:06
Speaker 1: her job because she was pregnant refused to get the vaccine. Wow, pregnant.
24:12
Speaker 1: Another person connects us they were going through in vitro.
24:16
Speaker 1: Lost their job because her doctor actually said the in
24:20
Speaker 1: vitro doctor said, I don't want you taking the vaccine
24:23
Speaker 1: right now while we're going through in vitro. Lost her
24:25
Speaker 1: job because the date came and it left, and bam,
24:29
Speaker 1: both of them are now unemployed. It just breaks your heart,
24:34
Speaker 1: doesn't it been. I mean, it just is so heartbreaking
24:41
Speaker 1: to hear these stories and meet these clients and see
24:45
Speaker 1: what this is doing to our society that people cannot
24:51
Speaker 1: respect the rights of others, and they should. So let
24:55
Speaker 1: me ask answer your particular question. The law that for instance,
24:59
Speaker 1: I've sued a or in Illinois is entitled the Healthcare
25:03
Speaker 1: Rights of Conscience Act. And you're absolutely right that for
25:08
Speaker 1: some people, conscience is a faith commitment, it's a religious commitment,
25:13
Speaker 1: but for other people it's it's an ethical system, it's
25:16
Speaker 1: a set of moral convictions. And for instance, the Illinois
25:20
Speaker 1: law protects people who whose moral commitments come from something
25:25
Speaker 1: other than faith in the same way that it protects
25:29
Speaker 1: people's religious commitments. So I think it's important that we
25:35
Speaker 1: focus on this sort of sincerely held belief, that it
25:39
Speaker 1: needs to be a deep conviction, but that the law
25:43
Speaker 1: should respect and employers should respect people who who hold
25:49
Speaker 1: these beliefs and not put them in these sort of
25:53
Speaker 1: impossible coercive positions. And I just have so much respect
25:58
Speaker 1: for people who hold on to their convictions knowing the cost,
26:03
Speaker 1: right that losing your job is a big deal. And
26:07
Speaker 1: when you believe something so deeply, so sincerely that you're
26:11
Speaker 1: you're not willing to compromise it, that you're willing to
26:13
Speaker 1: be that police officer who signs off after twenty years.
26:18
Speaker 1: It's just incredibly humbling and just proud of people like that.
26:24
Speaker 1: And I just hope that we can stand up for them,
26:27
Speaker 1: that we can fight back in court and win some
26:29
Speaker 1: of these cases. Nobody else has put in that kind
26:31
Speaker 1: of position. I'm on the clock. My employer has put
26:37
Speaker 1: me on the clock. They're listening to the Biden administration
26:40
Speaker 1: on these mandates, and they put me on the clock.
26:42
Speaker 1: I now have days, not months, not even weeks anymore,
26:46
Speaker 1: to make a decision or get fired. If you are
26:50
Speaker 1: one of those individuals who is facing that stop watch
26:55
Speaker 1: that's been started by your employer, what do this give them?
26:59
Speaker 1: The depths in order if you can of what they
27:03
Speaker 1: need to do first, second, and third to try to
27:06
Speaker 1: stand up for themselves. So I think it's really important
27:11
Speaker 1: to connect with an attorney. Obviously, the sooner the better
27:16
Speaker 1: when you do so, it's helpful to have whatever paperwork
27:21
Speaker 1: that you have been given around your case as possible, right,
27:27
Speaker 1: So just take a minute to line up here the
27:30
Speaker 1: emails that I've received from my company. Here are the
27:34
Speaker 1: documents that I submitted explaining my religious belief here's the
27:39
Speaker 1: denial or the appeal letter that I've sent. If you
27:43
Speaker 1: can go to an attorney with those things in a folder,
27:47
Speaker 1: and I can't tell you how much easier you make
27:49
Speaker 1: our life, and when days matter, when we're on a clock,
27:54
Speaker 1: it's really helpful to have those basic pieces of evidence
27:59
Speaker 1: lined up on the front end. And then often I
28:02
Speaker 1: think employers are sometimes at least reasonable, maybe not all
28:07
Speaker 1: of them, but we refer to it as litigation by letterhead,
28:12
Speaker 1: right Like sometimes just getting a letter from an attorney
28:17
Speaker 1: saying that I represent this person and I'm worried that
28:21
Speaker 1: their rights are being violated and we don't want to
28:24
Speaker 1: have to sue you will cause an employer to take
28:26
Speaker 1: a second look at a situation because their calculus changes
28:30
Speaker 1: right now. For a lot of employers, they feel like
28:34
Speaker 1: we'd better deny all of these exemption requests because we
28:38
Speaker 1: don't want to get sued because somebody gets COVID at work. Now,
28:41
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, I thinking, man, I don't want
28:43
Speaker 1: to get sued if I deny this request because this
28:46
Speaker 1: person has a sincerely held religious belief. So sometimes that
28:50
Speaker 1: can be solved just by being represented and letting the
28:54
Speaker 1: employer know you're serious, but ultimately sometimes it means you
28:58
Speaker 1: have to go to court and file it. And I
29:00
Speaker 1: think judges have been good about recognizing, let's put a pause,
29:05
Speaker 1: like you were giving an example earlier, Ben, let's put
29:07
Speaker 1: in a pause. Let's figure out the law, and let's
29:10
Speaker 1: not force anybody out of their job without giving full
29:14
Speaker 1: consideration to their legal rights. Where do you get these attorneys?
29:18
Speaker 1: Another question that has been asked, and that is, Okay,
29:22
Speaker 1: do I need somebody locally? Do I google it? Do
29:25
Speaker 1: I call a large organization like yours at Liberty Justice Center?
29:30
Speaker 1: And then how are you guys finding the attorney in
29:33
Speaker 1: our state? You know where I'm calling from. Yeah, great question,
29:38
Speaker 1: very practical and very important because I know, as you say,
29:43
Speaker 1: people are on the clock. So there are national organizations.
29:48
Speaker 1: Mine is Liberty Justice Center dot org, but there are
29:51
Speaker 1: other great organizations in this space. I'll say that, you know,
29:57
Speaker 1: there are a lot of people reaching out right now,
30:00
Speaker 1: two groups like mine, and they want to help. We
30:06
Speaker 1: want to be helpful, but obviously, really what what I
30:09
Speaker 1: think we need to do, not just as a conservative
30:12
Speaker 1: legal movement that as a country is get some major
30:16
Speaker 1: precedent set to get big cases decided in important courts,
30:22
Speaker 1: at state supreme courts, at regional courts of appeals, ultimately
30:26
Speaker 1: at the US Supreme Courts. So we can bring clarity,
30:29
Speaker 1: but I know that that's a multi month process, and
30:32
Speaker 1: if and if you're on the clock today, I think
30:35
Speaker 1: reaching out to a local attorney who does employment law
30:39
Speaker 1: is an equally good option. There are plenty of great
30:42
Speaker 1: attorneys who specialize in unemployment law. And ultimately, this is
30:46
Speaker 1: a we call it Title seven as attorneys for most
30:50
Speaker 1: people on most states, there's either going to be a
30:54
Speaker 1: federal Title seven law or there'll be some state religious
30:59
Speaker 1: liberty your right of conscience act that's going to be
31:02
Speaker 1: the go to for the attorney, and there'll be a
31:04
Speaker 1: person in your state who knows that and should be
31:08
Speaker 1: able to help you. Another question that has come in,
31:11
Speaker 1: and that is I think another important logistical question, what
31:16
Speaker 1: about retaliation. There have been several people have asked that
31:20
Speaker 1: I'm worried mostly about retaliation and do I need to
31:26
Speaker 1: get power in numbers? Do I need to recruit other
31:29
Speaker 1: people and we go to an attorney together, or is
31:31
Speaker 1: my case sufficient of what do these attorneys want? Groups
31:35
Speaker 1: like you? Do you want five, six, ten, fifteen employees
31:38
Speaker 1: at work in the same place that have all been
31:40
Speaker 1: denied their religious exemptions. So it's a very fact kind
31:48
Speaker 1: of specific, but I would say generally yes, yes, and yes,
31:53
Speaker 1: by which I mean, if you can just stand up
31:58
Speaker 1: and it's just you, that's all it takes. Right, Like
32:01
Speaker 1: we started the show, Ben, six employees at a huge
32:04
Speaker 1: global company like United, we're enough to get a case started.
32:08
Speaker 1: So if it's if it's just you and you are
32:11
Speaker 1: ready to stand up and insist on your rights, like,
32:14
Speaker 1: good for you, and it can be done. But especially
32:20
Speaker 1: I think you're right, Ben, for this feeling of retaliation
32:24
Speaker 1: knowing that it's illegal, right, you cannot. Employers can't retaliate
32:29
Speaker 1: in other ways against employees, but it's still legitimate concern
32:34
Speaker 1: when they exercise their legal rights. If you can come
32:37
Speaker 1: in as a group, that's great and it's powerful not
32:41
Speaker 1: just in the courtroom but in the court of public
32:44
Speaker 1: opinion to see people standing up and standing together. Right
32:48
Speaker 1: the coach and his four assistant coaches that we just
32:50
Speaker 1: heard about in the news break standing together. The only
32:55
Speaker 1: caution that comes with that is the more people you
32:58
Speaker 1: add to a case, the more complexity you add. And
33:03
Speaker 1: so if it's the sort of thing where there was
33:05
Speaker 1: just blanket denials. Then having lots of people is good.
33:10
Speaker 1: But you probably heard me earlier say we need an
33:12
Speaker 1: individualized assessment. If they've gone through individualized assessments and then
33:17
Speaker 1: made denial, it's not necessarily wise to sue as a
33:20
Speaker 1: group because you know, hopefully those assessments were truly individualized
33:25
Speaker 1: and they just came to the wrong answer. But one
33:28
Speaker 1: in doubt, I think coming as a group is great
33:31
Speaker 1: but not necessary. Two more questions for you, and one
33:35
Speaker 1: of them is dealing with states rights. You see what
33:37
Speaker 1: Florida and they have recently said, you can't have mandates
33:42
Speaker 1: on your employees in your states. They believe they're going
33:44
Speaker 1: to win on a states rights issue. Your reaction to
33:48
Speaker 1: that and are those states getting it right? And should
33:50
Speaker 1: others be advocating for them to do do the same thing
33:52
Speaker 1: in their state. Absolutely good for Florida, good for Texas.
33:58
Speaker 1: One of our core foundational principles as a constitutional republic
34:04
Speaker 1: is that the federal government is one of limited powers
34:08
Speaker 1: and state governments are where policy decisions affecting people's everyday
34:12
Speaker 1: lives should be made. And public health is one of
34:16
Speaker 1: those policies that has historically been committed to the states.
34:21
Speaker 1: There's a reason that all of these orders we've seen
34:25
Speaker 1: reacting to COVID, all the shutdown orders, all these sorts
34:28
Speaker 1: of things, they came from governors and not from the president.
34:32
Speaker 1: And that's because it's governors who have this power in
34:37
Speaker 1: our system, and that's the power both to regulate and
34:40
Speaker 1: the power to ensure freedom, like they're doing in Florida
34:43
Speaker 1: and Texas. And so when the president comes in with
34:47
Speaker 1: these sweeping nationwide mandates, this forthcoming OSHA mandate, that is
34:54
Speaker 1: a violation of the way our system is built. It
34:57
Speaker 1: is illegal. As soon as the Biden illustration issues it,
35:01
Speaker 1: they are going to get sued. We are going to
35:03
Speaker 1: be one of the people who sue them, and I
35:05
Speaker 1: think they are going to lose. They deserve to lose
35:07
Speaker 1: because our constitutional system is based on states as the
35:12
Speaker 1: center for policy like this, and when the federal government overreaches,
35:17
Speaker 1: courts are going to stop it. We saw it already
35:19
Speaker 1: with the eviction moratorium. I think we're going to say
35:22
Speaker 1: the same thing play out with this ocean mandate. Last
35:26
Speaker 1: question for you, and I just got this from someone
35:29
Speaker 1: who has already been fired from their job. They want
35:33
Speaker 1: to know what are their rights and is there a
35:35
Speaker 1: chance to get their job back. They did reply for
35:39
Speaker 1: two different exemptions. First was conscientious that was denied, then
35:42
Speaker 1: religious that was denied, and they've been fired because they
35:45
Speaker 1: weren't fully vaccinated by the deadline. Is there any way
35:49
Speaker 1: to fight that or as the damage already been done,
35:52
Speaker 1: you got to move on with your life. Obviously for starters,
35:57
Speaker 1: I'm sorry whoever that listener is right now, I'm sorry
36:01
Speaker 1: you were ever put in that place, And equally like
36:05
Speaker 1: props to you for sticking by your beliefs even when
36:08
Speaker 1: it cost a lot um. You know, I'll just say personally,
36:11
Speaker 1: like the Bible promises us, there's gonna be persecution in
36:15
Speaker 1: this world, and for a lot of people right now
36:18
Speaker 1: that is that is what they're feeling. But just respect
36:22
Speaker 1: for sticking by your beliefs. So where my lawyer hat,
36:26
Speaker 1: I'll say, you can certainly still talk to an attorney.
36:29
Speaker 1: You certainly still have rights, and even if you've been fired,
36:33
Speaker 1: if that's you, um, the employment attorney can still help.
36:39
Speaker 1: And even if you can't get your job back, you'll
36:42
Speaker 1: be entitled to monetary damages if your employer acted illegally.
36:47
Speaker 1: So don't don't give up hope, don't give up a fight.
36:50
Speaker 1: There's still recourse for someone whose religious rights have been violated,
36:56
Speaker 1: and um, if it's it's impossible to say you're not
37:00
Speaker 1: sincere right. If you went all the way to accepting
37:03
Speaker 1: termination because you were going to stick by your beliefs,
37:06
Speaker 1: that's the best proof of all that you are sincere
37:09
Speaker 1: in them and that should count for a lot in court. Daniel,
37:12
Speaker 1: I appreciate your time, Daniel Sir, Managing attorney for Liberty
37:16
Speaker 1: Justice Center. For so many that are going to hear
37:18
Speaker 1: this one, please share it. We'll have it obviously. The
37:22
Speaker 1: podcast is the easiest way for you to share this audio.
37:25
Speaker 1: How can they get in touch with you and get
37:29
Speaker 1: information that may help them as they move through this
37:31
Speaker 1: process from you guys? Yeah, thanks so much for having
37:34
Speaker 1: me on, Ben, Thanks for caring about the Constitution and
37:38
Speaker 1: your listeners and the rights of conscience. We've got to
37:42
Speaker 1: band together in this moment as people who believe in freedom,
37:46
Speaker 1: we have to stick together. We have to stand up
37:49
Speaker 1: for our rights. You can start as a listener. Just
37:52
Speaker 1: go to Liberty Justice Center dot org. It's Liberty Justice
37:57
Speaker 1: Center dot org. We love liberty, We love justice, so
38:00
Speaker 1: that's what we do every day and reach out to
38:03
Speaker 1: our team connect to get help. But equally, there are
38:08
Speaker 1: other great attorneys out there and other great groups or
38:11
Speaker 1: even just in your local community who specialize in employment law.
38:15
Speaker 1: But don't just accept it. Stand up for your light rights,
38:20
Speaker 1: fight back, and we can stop this kind of coercion.
38:24
Speaker 1: We can stop this kind of overreach because it violates
38:28
Speaker 1: who we are as Americans. Daniel again, thank you for
38:31
Speaker 1: coming on. And I will say this every one of
38:34
Speaker 1: you that wants to help other Americans right now then
38:37
Speaker 1: maybe losing their jobs, please send them a link to
38:41
Speaker 1: this podcast so they know how you can fight back
38:44
Speaker 1: and what your rights are. So if you'll help more
38:47
Speaker 1: Americans see this, that is only going to help us
38:50
Speaker 1: organize and fight back. And I will see you back
38:53
Speaker 1: here tomorrow