Latest / The Lila Rose Show / E272: When Your Kids Won’t Listen: Dr. Ray's Must-Know Tools | Lila Rose Show

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E272: When Your Kids Won’t Listen: Dr. Ray's Must-Know Tools | Lila Rose Show · The Lila Rose Show

• 0:00
  You love them with all your might, but you cannot raise kids
• 0:03
  if you don't have discipline, confidence, if you don't have
• 0:06
  the ability to mean what you say and say what you mean.
• 0:09
  Gentle parenting is a way to be a nasty parent.
• 0:11
  What do you mean? Kids from big families by and
• 0:14
  large, grow up to be better adjusted, more giving, less
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  selfish. The matter you get, the more you
• 0:19
  lose credibility because the child looks at you and thinks,
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  hey, you're a lunatic. You know you can discipline
• 0:24
  mean, but discipline itself is not mean.
• 0:31
  As you guys know, I grew up in a big family.
• 0:33
  I'm one of eight kids and my parents were always interested
• 0:36
  in how to parent better. Here at the show, we're really
• 0:39
  passionate about how to build healthy families and what does
• 0:41
  good parenting look like, and I'm grateful to my parents for
• 0:44
  setting that example. I'm really excited about today's
• 0:47
  guest because he's been giving parenting advice for over 4
• 0:50
  decades and he specializes in big families.
• 0:54
  Welcome back to the Lila Roe show.
• 0:55
  Today I'm sitting down with psychologist and author Doctor
• 0:58
  Ray Gorendi, father of ten children, all adopted, and we
• 1:02
  discuss principles and philosophies of parenting, as
• 1:05
  well as the beauty and struggles of large families and what he
• 1:08
  calls the blackout technique in parenting.
• 1:10
  He's also hilarious. We discuss how much consistency
• 1:13
  is actually needed in parenting. Hint, it's actually less than
• 1:16
  you may think, and how to be both gentle and confident as
• 1:19
  parents. This episode isn't just for
• 1:21
  parents. It's for aspiring parents or for
• 1:23
  people who want to help other parents in your life do their
• 1:25
  job better. At the Wyla Rose Show, our
• 1:27
  community is keenly aware of the importance of strong.
• 1:29
  No strong nation is possible without strong families, and if
• 1:33
  you want to join us in this battle, the quickest and easiest
• 1:35
  way to do that is to ensure that you've already hit that little
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  subscribe button. Please double check.
• 1:40
  Also, leave this video alike in a comment and join us over at
• 1:43
  patreon.com/lila Roadshow where we have behind the scenes
• 1:46
  conversations, add free episodes and more.
• 1:49
  Doctor Ray also answers some of the questions from this
• 1:51
  community for a special bonus segment over at patreon.com/lila
• 1:56
  Rose Show. Also, you guys might be noticing
• 1:58
  it. Some of you have mentioned it in
• 1:59
  the comments. This is one of our new sweaters,
• 2:02
  our merch here we've got Onward and Upward, We've got Seek
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  Heaven 1st and so many other beautiful designs.
• 2:08
  You can go check that out at shoplilaroshow.com.
• 2:11
  Doctor Ray Garandi, welcome to the show.
• 2:13
  Thanks, Lila. I'm so happy you're here.
• 2:15
  You are. And Oh yes.
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  That's nice. An Italian. 100%. 100%.
• 2:21
  All four grandparents through Ellis Island.
• 2:23
  Wow. Wow.
• 2:24
  My name was not Gorendi, it was Quadrante.
• 2:27
  But my 17 year old grandfather who couldn't speak English
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  mispronounced it to No, that's how they did.
• 2:34
  It they just wrote the immigration.
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  Officer just wrote it down, That was it.
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  So I got a new name. They.
• 2:38
  Lost the original. So wait, how did they?
• 2:40
  How was the original Grundy spelled?
• 2:41
  I think it was QUARANT. E with a Q.
• 2:44
  I think so. Wow.
• 2:46
  Yeah. OK.
• 2:47
  So you're first generation, that's your second, your second.
• 2:51
  Your we had to go to Mamo's house every day till I was 23.
• 2:55
  That's the way it was. And I couldn't move more than
• 2:58
  maybe three blocks away from my mom because that's a law in
• 3:00
  Italian. You can't move far away from
• 3:02
  your mom. That is a law.
• 3:04
  Yeah. One of my brothers, you know,
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  the youngest brother, of course, is the youngest son.
• 3:07
  He's like, you know, 20 minutes is, is the, is the Max.
• 3:11
  He was in Boston, My my parents in Northern California.
• 3:13
  And his team moved back. My parish was Saint Anthony's in
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  Canton. And do you know know who went to
• 3:19
  that parish? A woman named Rita Rizzo.
• 3:22
  This the Saint to be. Mother Angelica, my dad, was a
• 3:28
  freshman when she was a senior at McKinley High School.
• 3:31
  So did they meet her? I don't know if they did.
• 3:34
  He may have not known that that was going to be Mother Angelica,
• 3:37
  but I knew of her when I was 14 years old because there's a
• 3:41
  woman in Canton that's right. Now her cause is being offered.
• 3:47
  Her name is Rhoda Wise. Yes, I've heard of her.
• 3:52
  And I was taken there when I was a freshman at that house, and my
• 3:55
  mom told me about this little nun that had a miracle cure at
• 3:59
  Rhoda Wise's house and became a nun in Canton, OH for the
• 4:03
  longest time before then she moved down to EWTN.
• 4:08
  So when did you decide that you wanted to let first introduce
• 4:13
  yourself? Give us your background and you
• 4:15
  have a you have a fascinating personal story.
• 4:17
  What I love about you is you're hilarious.
• 4:19
  So we're going to tell jokes. You promised me we'd do some
• 4:22
  knock knock jokes, so we'll do that.
• 4:24
  Your work, your body of work is amazing. 20 books on parenting,
• 4:27
  marriage, all the things, you know, relating well with other
• 4:30
  people. You have a beautiful show that's
• 4:31
  helped decades of people. One of the gals here in the show
• 4:34
  the Office today saying her mother helped raise her off of
• 4:37
  you, off of your stuff. Yeah, but if she goes bad, she's
• 4:40
  not going to sue me is. She she's going pretty well so
• 4:42
  far, right? I mean, she's they're pretty,
• 4:44
  pretty amazing people. She's doing great, pretty
• 4:46
  amazing people around here. And but then you're also got
• 4:49
  this, you know, your personal life is just really special how
• 4:52
  you've raised your own family. So give us the background on
• 4:55
  Doctor Ray Garandy. I'm a shrink psychologist,
• 4:57
  clinical psychologist, started out in engineering.
• 5:00
  I always wanted to live in the caboose, you know, but I got
• 5:04
  blown out. I got blown out of engineering
• 5:07
  when I was a freshman because I got an awful score on my physics
• 5:09
  test. So I called home, I said, hey
• 5:11
  mom, transfer and transfer into psychology.
• 5:15
  And I thought, well, what do I do now?
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  So I just kept going got a PhD in psychology for 20 years.
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  I did practice school districts, Head Start programs, all those
• 5:25
  places. I have a private practice now.
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  And then ultimately drifted towards media because I was an
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  entertainer in nightclubs and restaurants before, before all
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  this singing, singing, playing the organ and entertaining.
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  And that's kind of how I got into all this.
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  I used to do all the secular shows, Oprah, Jenny Jones, CBS
• 5:45
  This Morning. I did all those and.
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  Singing. No, I was.
• 5:48
  A shrink, I was going to say I don't remember that no as as so
• 5:52
  you were singing in the nightclubs, but then you were
• 5:54
  you were doing the shrink work, including on Oprah and then.
• 5:58
  I was on Oprah multiple times before she went to Phil Phil was
• 6:02
  kind of her therapist and so she kind of moved him into the show
• 6:06
  and he was there about every week until he went out on his
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  own. But what a mistake.
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  Prior to that I used to go there a lot.
• 6:13
  What a mistake. Yeah, but I got to be with you
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  now and that's better. All right, I'll take it.
• 6:17
  I'll take it. You know, and I, I have a soft
• 6:19
  spot in my heart for Doctor Phil, but there's no one like
• 6:21
  Doctor Ray. So we've got we've got the real.
• 6:23
  You've got to get out more, woman.
• 6:25
  I well, I, I, I feel like I'm out a lot.
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  I'm out too much. And it made one sense.
• 6:28
  So, so you, so tell me about your family.
• 6:32
  We're going to talk about your work and you're, you're going to
• 6:34
  give some the best advice that people listening may have ever
• 6:36
  heard. We're going to get to that, but
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  it's coming from your faith in your family.
• 6:40
  Tell me about your family. Came home from Cleveland Clinic
• 6:43
  one day, told my wife they said if we conceive children it'll be
• 6:49
  a miracle and go on the talk shows.
• 6:52
  So we said, what do we do now? Can we adopt?
• 6:56
  Yeah, but the wait could be 567 years.
• 7:00
  My wife always wanted to have 5 or 6 kids and I guess we'll try
• 7:04
  to adopt. Well, back then, Lila, if you
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  didn't care about the race, you could adopt very quickly.
• 7:11
  I asked an adoption worker one time.
• 7:13
  He said, how long would I have to wait if I wanted to adopt A
• 7:16
  little black baby boy? She said, what are you doing
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  tomorrow? So I have 3 white, 2 Hispanic, 2
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  biracial, 3 black. Now the picture when my wife
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  used to take him through the store because at one point they
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  were all under. 1210 total 10 total.
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  Wow. All adopted.
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  All adopted, all different ethnicities, all different.
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  Well, boys and girls. I suspect my wife on the black
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  kids but I can't catch her. So given that she'd take him
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  through the store and people would look at her and they'd see
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  these kids of multi colors and I could hear them thinking I
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  wonder if that guy knows those aren't all his.
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  And then some of them would come up and say, is this some kind of
• 7:58
  club or something? Daycare.
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  Yeah, that's what. It is.
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  It's a yeah, It's a preschool daycare.
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  So yeah, the kids, they're all grown now.
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  And I got to tell you, if you let me brag, let me.
• 8:08
  Brag. The parole officer says some of
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  the nicest kids he has. So when you hear that, you feel
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  warm inside, you know. Any grandkids?
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  10. 10 grandkids already and they're all grown and launched.
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  All your kids. Why?
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  I'm not sure I'd use the word launch.
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  I mean, they know where we live. So my wife and I are getting
• 8:31
  into a parent protection program where they're going to alter our
• 8:34
  identities and relocate us in Montana.
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  So some of them are around the country, some of them are close
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  to. Home people listening to me like
• 8:42
  what is real? What is what is this right now?
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  But that is hilarious. But so so 10 adopted children,
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  all different backgrounds. And were they all babies when
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  you adopted these these beautiful kids?
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  OK, we got four older and we can talk about that because they had
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  some pretty rough upbringings. I bet very very dangerous womb
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  had three of the children where birth mom was considering
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  abortion and they didn't and we let the kids know real clear how
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  much their birth mom loved them to basically go against her
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  whole world to give birth to this child that was at risk.
• 9:17
  I I have a son who initial testing in the womb said that he
• 9:21
  had corpus callosum agenesis. Now that's a serious
• 9:25
  neurological birth defect. Worst case scenario, that's
• 9:28
  institution for life. Birth mom was 35.
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  I got to believe everybody told her, you, you can't give birth
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  to this kid. She did.
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  And that young man just mustered out a Fort Hood as Sergeant G
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  after 10 1/2 years. It was a shadow on the
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  ultrasound. The test was wrong.
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  Wow. That's amazing.
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  I've got to ask you and we're going to get into discipline
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  parenting relationships, but I think this the the the act of
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  love of adopting this beautiful, these beautiful.
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  Children. All right, all right.
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  But beyond the tax deductions, the act of love and your and
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  your wife's love to adopt all these kids, I want to talk about
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  the risk. And you knew in part, I think
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  what you were getting into as a shrink.
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  As you say, you know, you're you, you have the clinical
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  background, you've you've counseled all kinds of families
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  kids. So you've seen the the whole
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  gamut of things, right? Did you, do you feel like you
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  knew what you were getting into when you chose to adopt 10
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  children, some of them older children who had all the trauma
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  that they came into the family with?
• 10:27
  Did you go into it with you and your wife saying, listen, these
• 10:28
  are the challenges we're going to face and the beautiful
• 10:30
  blessings. This is how what we're going to
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  do as a family. Was there sort of like a a whole
• 10:34
  plan behind it? It all depends upon the context.
• 10:38
  For example, one of the worst things that can happen is drugs
• 10:42
  and alcohol in the womb. What that does is it alters the
• 10:47
  brain structure. It alters the thinking.
• 10:50
  It makes the individual harder to socialize, slower to form a
• 10:54
  conscience. Now, I'm not saying it can't
• 10:55
  happen, but I'm saying it's much riskier.
• 10:59
  And what's happening now, Lila, is the the days are gone where
• 11:02
  the young Catholic girl gets pregnant and goes and lives with
• 11:05
  the nuns until she places the baby.
• 11:07
  Nowadays, a lot of adopted kids are at risk.
• 11:10
  They come from foreign countries.
• 11:12
  They've been taken from birth mom because of neglect and
• 11:15
  abuse. They're older, they've been in
• 11:16
  foster care. So as a result, and I always
• 11:19
  tell this to folks who come to me who want to adopt, yes, it's
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  a beautiful thing. Our Lord says take care of the
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  little ones real clear. But know that this could be a
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  bouncy upbringing as long as you know that you're prepared.
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  I knew that we were going to have some turbulence.
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  I knew that I didn't realize how much the brain can be altered.
• 11:47
  The research says it can by the drugs and the alcohol in the
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  womb. But most adoptive parents think
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  love, stability, religious upbringing and will shape this
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  kid into a beautiful human being.
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  And that does happen often. However, I deal with a lot of
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  adoptive parents who are struggling because this kids
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  tough to raise doesn't mean he's not valuable in God's eyes.
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  It just means he's tougher to raise.
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  And as a parent, you got to be even better at this.
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  You got to be more supervisory, better discipline, more stable,
• 12:18
  watching over the input from the culture that is misshaping their
• 12:22
  souls, those kinds of things. That's part of it.
• 12:26
  I think a lot of parents are afraid of adopting or fostering
• 12:30
  a certainly with older children where there's maybe trauma and a
• 12:34
  background that is more complex, so the needs are greater when
• 12:37
  they have other young children in the home.
• 12:39
  One of the rules we had, we didn't adopt anybody older than
• 12:45
  our younger kids. Now, at one point we adopted 2
• 12:48
  four year olds and we had a three and a one year old in the
• 12:50
  house at that point. The four year olds, we knew
• 12:54
  somewhat the history, so we felt really secure about their
• 12:58
  worldliness. But if you adopt an 8 year old
• 13:01
  worldly child who's seen all kinds of stuff and then you
• 13:05
  bring him into your home with a 2 year old in your home, yeah,
• 13:08
  you're, you're taking some risks and you got to know that.
• 13:12
  But by and large, the children adapt well.
• 13:18
  One of the things I hear from parents who say, we have three
• 13:20
  bio kids and now we want to adopt.
• 13:23
  OK, how will the kids accept this?
• 13:26
  Well, most of them they do. Initially they may say, why did
• 13:29
  you do this to our family? We didn't want somebody else in
• 13:32
  here. We had a nice family.
• 13:33
  Why are you doing this, mom? But over time, the kids adapt
• 13:37
  well. However, the key thing you got
• 13:40
  to watch is the worldliness of the child that you adopt,
• 13:45
  especially if you have younger ones.
• 13:46
  You got younger ones. So for you to go out and adopt A
• 13:49
  10 year old who's seen 50 times what all three of your kids have
• 13:53
  seen from a worldly perspective, yeah, you got to be real
• 13:57
  reluctant. And what are some examples of
• 13:58
  that that you think people should be aware of, but when you
• 14:02
  when you say the word worldliness and how that might
• 14:04
  negatively impact your younger children or any younger children
• 14:08
  in the home? Sexualized.
• 14:10
  The kids have seen much. Perhaps they themselves have
• 14:12
  been sexually abused. I think one of my sons has was
• 14:15
  sexually abused. And when we adopted him and we
• 14:17
  didn't know that, I sensed it. I didn't know it.
• 14:21
  Now as I look back on it, all the puzzle pieces fit together.
• 14:24
  So you got to watch the sexualization.
• 14:26
  You got to watch how much they've been exposed to sewage
• 14:29
  and junk. They spent hours in front of ATV
• 14:35
  or video games or on the Internet.
• 14:38
  What they've seen so that this little 6 year old has the
• 14:42
  worldly mind of a 16 year old. And that's where the risk comes
• 14:47
  in. What was been the best thing
• 14:49
  about adopting 10 children for you and your wife?
• 14:53
  Chaos it is. It was a good chaos though.
• 14:57
  I look back on it. My wife homeschooled.
• 14:59
  Wow. Well, well that's really amazing
• 15:01
  because her her education level only goes to the 4th grade.
• 15:04
  So I told her I said stay one week ahead in the answer book.
• 15:07
  That's all you got to do. It was, and you graduated the
• 15:09
  5th grade, right? I was fifth, Yeah.
• 15:11
  I was at the top of my class. I was 16.
• 15:14
  I was up here in Heights and the other kids were.
• 15:16
  Here you just got a little print out of your degree and that's.
• 15:18
  On the wall you can get it yes open cover before before
• 15:21
  striking school of graduation. So the thing was I look back on
• 15:26
  it now and for well I don't know maybe 7 years all of them were
• 15:32
  in the house. So because of that, it was just
• 15:36
  chaos. But yet if here's here's the
• 15:38
  key, Lila, here's here's one of the biggest things my wife had
• 15:41
  discipline control. A woman from our church one time
• 15:45
  asked her, what would you do if you gave one of your kids
• 15:50
  discipline? You know, go to the corner, go
• 15:52
  to your room, put your head down at the dining room table, write
• 15:54
  an essay, whatever. What would you do if they
• 15:56
  refused? And my wife said, I don't know.
• 16:01
  And the woman said, what do you mean you don't know?
• 16:04
  And my wife said they never have.
• 16:06
  And she said, how could that be? And here's why.
• 16:10
  Early on, she showed the kids you can't refuse discipline
• 16:14
  because if you do, there's going to be all kinds of other
• 16:18
  consequences are going to happen to you.
• 16:20
  And we'll talk about how to get parents 11 time compliance.
• 16:25
  And because of that, the kids, even with all of their
• 16:28
  background, even their tough temperaments, knew that their
• 16:31
  mother meant business. And if she says go to the
• 16:34
  corner, you better go to the corner because if not, all kinds
• 16:36
  of things are going to happen. She Italian.
• 16:40
  She she's, I don't know what she is and I'm surprised my
• 16:42
  grandmother let me marry her. She's I, I I.
• 16:44
  Actually, I'm surprised too. Oh, easy, easy.
• 16:48
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• 16:50
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  OK, we've got to hear the secrets and I know these are
• 18:31
  your secrets. You've written 20 books, and
• 18:33
  some of them are about. You love them with all your
• 18:35
  might. But, and this is so key, you
• 18:39
  cannot raise 10 kids if you don't have discipline,
• 18:43
  confidence, if you don't have the ability to mean what you say
• 18:47
  and say what you mean. If you don't have that.
• 18:50
  Lila, I can't tell you how many parents come up to me and say I
• 18:54
  wanted to have four or five children, but I stopped it too
• 18:58
  because I can't handle the two I have.
• 19:01
  And that's tragic. That is sad, but it's so common
• 19:04
  nowadays. It is so common.
• 19:07
  I I hear it everywhere. I hear it when I'm out with my
• 19:09
  kids and I only have three. We hope to have more.
• 19:11
  But when we're out and people say, oh, you've got your hands
• 19:15
  full, Oh, it's so great and you're done, right?
• 19:17
  You're you're done, you're done, you're done.
• 19:19
  I'm like, where, where, where, where, how do we get here?
• 19:22
  We. Live in a culture that says you
• 19:24
  can have physical relations with anybody, anytime, any way anyhow
• 19:29
  you want. The only people we will attack
• 19:33
  is you, a mom who has more than 1.86 children.
• 19:37
  Then we will comment on your motherhood.
• 19:41
  You know what you say if they say to you, are these all your
• 19:45
  children, Lila? You look at them and you say, of
• 19:49
  course not. The oldest is at home with the
• 19:51
  triplets. Too funny.
• 19:55
  OK, what's the secret, though, to walk us through?
• 19:57
  Because I've got three. I think about some of my closest
• 20:01
  friends who have many more than that.
• 20:03
  And discipline it. And it's not just about like,
• 20:06
  don't do bad stuff, right? It's about forming a child to
• 20:09
  become who God created them to be.
• 20:12
  And this is the dream of every parent.
• 20:14
  And yes, I do think some people don't have more children than
• 20:17
  one or two because they're afraid of their ability or lack
• 20:20
  of ability to do it well. And there's other selfish, more
• 20:23
  selfish reasons than that too. But what give us the
• 20:26
  foundations, the Doctor Ray foundations for how to raise a
• 20:32
  strong set of children? And I really want to hear it
• 20:34
  from this lens of a big family because I know we've got some
• 20:37
  listeners to the show who have really big families.
• 20:40
  You know, I know the principles can be the same for some small
• 20:42
  families, but how did you and your wife do it?
• 20:44
  And what do you recommend to get the to to discipline ten
• 20:48
  children? The people who listen to you,
• 20:51
  Lila, by and large are faith filled people.
• 20:55
  They want to raise kids who are going to go to heaven.
• 20:59
  As a consequence, they are out of sync with the culture.
• 21:05
  The culture around them is much more permissive, much more
• 21:08
  amoral, much more quick to allow kids to grow up too fast.
• 21:15
  So the kids of the people who watch and listen to you are
• 21:21
  likely as they get older to say, hey, mom, how can all those
• 21:26
  people be wrong and you be right?
• 21:29
  So the first thing I say to parents is you got to have the
• 21:31
  confidence to know that what you're doing in your best
• 21:35
  judgement, not according to some expert who doesn't believe in
• 21:38
  God, in your best judgement. This is what is good for your
• 21:43
  family. And if you say, well, we don't
• 21:46
  have television during the week, well, Lila, you're about in 1%.
• 21:52
  If you say my daughter is 15 and does not yet have a smartphone,
• 21:57
  now you're way less than 1%. If you don't have the confidence
• 22:01
  to make those kinds of judgments, you're going to be
• 22:04
  buffeted by the winds of the culture.
• 22:06
  So that's the first thing. Second thing, and I, I send this
• 22:09
  straight to Dad's, be affectionate.
• 22:13
  Be very affectionate. Those kids know that your
• 22:18
  standards are different from the cultures and you can't expect
• 22:21
  them to understand why all the time.
• 22:22
  They're kids, they don't understand this.
• 22:24
  I remember the first time I told my mom I don't like you.
• 22:28
  She looked at me. She said, Raymond, you're a
• 22:31
  little behind. Stop liking you.
• 22:33
  Last year, that was before you could psychologically smack
• 22:36
  parents around. So you can't be afraid of being
• 22:39
  misunderstood by your kids. You cannot.
• 22:43
  Third, when my son was 17, he played basketball for school.
• 22:50
  Before the games, I would go down on the floor and I'd grab
• 22:55
  him and I'd hug him and I'd kiss him. 17 years old. 17 years old
• 23:00
  now, I'm kiss him. Kiss him at his practice in
• 23:02
  front, at his game, in front of his.
• 23:04
  Friends front everybody and I'd look up on the stands and you
• 23:07
  could see the collective gasp of parents, of teenagers.
• 23:10
  They're going this guy's breaking every team rule in the
• 23:14
  world. I hugged him and I kissed him
• 23:17
  and I had I had to affirm him. I had to say something very
• 23:20
  positive. So I said, Petey try not to
• 23:24
  stink the joint out and he'd laugh later on.
• 23:28
  I asked him, hey Pete, that bother you when I do that?
• 23:33
  He said would it make any difference Dad?
• 23:35
  I said no, it wouldn't because no son of mine, I don't care how
• 23:38
  old you get is ever going to tell me I can't be affectionate
• 23:40
  with you anytime, anywhere. Anyhow, you know what he told me
• 23:44
  later, Lila? He said a couple of his
• 23:46
  teammates came up to him and said I wish my dad would do
• 23:50
  that. So you see that that affection
• 23:53
  is, is the older I get and the more I see it, especially those
• 23:57
  families raising their kids counter to the flow of the
• 24:01
  culture. You got to be affectionate
• 24:03
  because otherwise the kids, they don't understand why are you
• 24:05
  doing this? You're so weird.
• 24:08
  OK, that's that's huge. Another big one, you got to have
• 24:12
  discipline control, because if you don't, you get ugly.
• 24:15
  I'm fond of saying dent gentle parenting is a way to be a nasty
• 24:20
  parent. What do you mean?
• 24:22
  Because you're going to get frustrated.
• 24:24
  Presentment builds parenting. Doesn't work because it assumes
• 24:29
  something that's flawed. How do you define really quick
• 24:32
  because this is a this is a hot debate.
• 24:33
  Yes it is. Yes, it.
• 24:34
  Is. How do you define gentle?
• 24:36
  Parenting, dental parenting, is reasoning, understanding, being
• 24:42
  very slow to discipline, but in fact giving choices.
• 24:46
  Now, all that's good, all that is good.
• 24:48
  The problem is, it implies that if you do it that way, then your
• 24:54
  kid is going to cooperate, and when he doesn't, you get
• 24:58
  frustrated. And when you get frustrated, you
• 25:01
  get ugly. You go to confession.
• 25:04
  Bless me Father, I'm impatient. Before children, 4 occasions I
• 25:09
  was, I was. I made that.
• 25:10
  Confession before children. Now I'm not pretty.
• 25:14
  Old nice Doctor Ray. And then you say, Father, would
• 25:18
  I be wrong thinking about shooting my kid with a bazooka?
• 25:21
  Haven't done that one, but that, yeah, you get.
• 25:23
  Frustrated And for you Lyle, you got 3 little ones right?
• 25:28
  You'd you need the ability now. I think the youngest is how old?
• 25:33
  1. OK, so this really not in. 18
• 25:35
  months she's she's she acts like she's.
• 25:37
  Two, Yeah, you're inching your way toward some kind of
• 25:39
  discipline, which parents say. What is discipline?
• 25:42
  I say, well, discipline very Simply put.
• 25:44
  Is this an expectation backed by a consequence?
• 25:49
  In other words, you're not allowed to mistreat your
• 25:51
  brother. You can't mistreat your brother.
• 25:54
  Now, sometimes a parent will say, but wait, I want to teach
• 25:56
  him to treat his brother right. I go true, but you have to first
• 26:01
  stop mistreatment because we as Christians know that the bent is
• 26:06
  toward mistreatment. We have a fallen human nature.
• 26:08
  We're going to do what's in our interest, and our interest
• 26:12
  collides with his interest, so you can't mistreat your brother.
• 26:15
  It is true, the original thing, just quick side ball.
• 26:18
  I don't bar on this and I'm curious your thoughts because I
• 26:20
  see with this kind of the fallen nature, you know, at the very
• 26:25
  young age, there's like angels, but then they can peel like
• 26:29
  demons, but not because they're intending the sin.
• 26:31
  It's not like, Oh, I'm in because before the age of
• 26:33
  reason, there's no moral culpability.
• 26:35
  But it's just like, you know, they're I'm I want that toy, I
• 26:38
  want this, I want that. And you know, it's a human
• 26:41
  nature thing and it's again not an act of sin for a child, child
• 26:44
  like that young because they don't have reason, right?
• 26:47
  They can't will as a consent to the sin.
• 26:49
  You know what I believe is the most overused and sad adjective
• 26:57
  to describe children? Strong willed.
• 27:01
  I hate that the implication is that because he wants to do what
• 27:06
  he wants to do, Because he's self-centered.
• 27:09
  All of which our Christian teaching would say is innate to
• 27:13
  the human. Before we are socialized,
• 27:16
  immortalized, We look at this and say, why is he so strong
• 27:20
  willed? And I want to say, mom, he's not
• 27:22
  going to cooperate with you. If you've got one that's more
• 27:25
  cooperative, count your blessings, say thank you, dear
• 27:27
  Lord. But if you get one like that
• 27:29
  first, Lila, it'll ruin the rest of your parenting because you'll
• 27:33
  think you're God's gift to parent.
• 27:35
  And then Cujo comes along. Conan over here and all of a
• 27:39
  sudden you've got a normal child, but you then describe
• 27:43
  that child as strong willed, so strong willed mind of her own. 6
• 27:49
  gone on 16. See, we use these kind of
• 27:52
  adjectives when in fact, I want to say you just got a kid and
• 27:55
  we've forgotten what kids are. And part of the reason for that
• 27:59
  is that the experts have convinced parents that your
• 28:03
  kids, if you, if you parent properly, are going to say, oh,
• 28:08
  mother, I've been so blind. Of.
• 28:12
  Course, let's hold hands sing kumbaya around the campfire.
• 28:16
  OK, but but and I and I took you on a sidebar, so let thank you
• 28:19
  for the patience with me on that, But you were laying the
• 28:21
  foundations for what discipline is and you just said, Oh well,
• 28:25
  they're not going to do the kumbaya, but sounds like your
• 28:27
  wife had it locked in. They weren't kumbaya ING maybe,
• 28:30
  but they were obeying. Yes, and sounds like there was
• 28:33
  harmony. I had a client come to my office
• 28:37
  and her husband said one of the more humble things I've gotten
• 28:40
  from clients. He said I disagreed with my wife
• 28:44
  the whole time we were raising our oldest son.
• 28:47
  I thought she was too strict. I thought her standards were too
• 28:50
  high. I was much, much, much more
• 28:52
  permissive. I thought he would outgrow all
• 28:54
  of this. He's 21 now and his life's a
• 28:57
  mess. So we have a 14 year old and I
• 29:00
  don't want to make the same mistakes.
• 29:01
  So we're here, Doctor Ray, give us some guidance and I'm going
• 29:05
  to agree with what you say. And my wife, So I asked them if
• 29:11
  you told this 14 year old that's disrespectful, you need to
• 29:15
  please sit down and write a nice essay on why you're grateful to
• 29:20
  live here and why you should not be disrespectful.
• 29:23
  And that's some minimum 300 words handwritten.
• 29:26
  Would he do it? And the mother said, oh, of
• 29:29
  course not. Oh, no, Be an automatic fight.
• 29:32
  Be an automatic brawl or an argument.
• 29:33
  Awful, I said. Well, here's what I think you
• 29:36
  need to do at that point, until you get the essay, all perks and
• 29:41
  privileges cease. Every single thing That means
• 29:48
  there is no outside, there's no computer, there's no friends.
• 29:52
  If you go to Pizza Hut, he doesn't eat.
• 29:55
  He eats at home because he's eating out.
• 29:57
  Some privilege. A favorite sweatshirts.
• 29:59
  Go on. But anything technical is gone.
• 30:03
  If you have to drive him to school, well, that's a privilege
• 30:09
  so we can pay him some mileage. In other words, you don't
• 30:12
  understand how many things as a parent are in your leverage.
• 30:16
  And she said, you mean that's kind of like a blackout?
• 30:21
  And I said, what a great word. And I talked about that in my
• 30:25
  books. And I also talked about that
• 30:26
  from our own perspective as parents.
• 30:29
  That's the reason why the kids didn't refuse going to the
• 30:33
  corner. If they did.
• 30:34
  My wife said, OK, blackout. Mom, Mom, I'm going to go
• 30:40
  outside. No, I didn't get my corner yet.
• 30:43
  Ma with my thought, the Elmo, Oh, it's on the refrigerator.
• 30:46
  I didn't get my corner yet. How come I don't get no cake?
• 30:50
  Oh, no, you don't get any dessert at all.
• 30:51
  You didn't go to the corner yet. In other words, until you do
• 30:54
  what we asked you to do, you're going to realize all these
• 30:57
  things are gone. Not mean, not nasty, not Jack
• 31:00
  booted. Kick the door down.
• 31:02
  No, just a very calm, I told you need to go to the corner of this
• 31:06
  is going to happen. And it didn't take too many of
• 31:08
  those before. Finally she just said, put your
• 31:12
  head down at the dining room table, please.
• 31:13
  I'll set the timer. And they did, because a few
• 31:16
  times they said no, they saw what happened and they didn't
• 31:20
  like that. So she so she did that enough
• 31:23
  early on enough, consistently enough.
• 31:26
  And also, it sounds like calmly enough.
• 31:27
  Oh. Yeah, she wasn't yelling at
• 31:28
  anybody. She wasn't screaming.
• 31:30
  She wasn't threatening them. You little brat.
• 31:32
  Get over there. No, nothing like that.
• 31:35
  I always tell parents, the madder you get, the more you
• 31:38
  lose credibility because the child looks at you and thinks,
• 31:41
  hey, you're a lunatic. You know I'm living with a
• 31:43
  lunatic. OK, I'll go to the corner.
• 31:46
  Look what I did to you. I ruined the next two hours for
• 31:48
  you. I can stand in a corner for 4
• 31:49
  minutes. That's a nice trade off.
• 31:52
  That's what happens. Sure.
• 31:54
  Now, if you have, I'm not going to ask you personally.
• 31:56
  You. Can go for that.
• 31:57
  I could use a little evaluation. Older ones.
• 32:00
  You're two older ones. Oh, they are.
• 32:01
  They're thick as thieves, and they also can fight like Kathy
• 32:03
  Cox. So you have you have a house
• 32:05
  rule, boys. Rocky Bruno.
• 32:11
  You're great names, good names. Conan Cujo, you're not allowed
• 32:16
  to mistreat each other. There is no pushing, there's no
• 32:20
  shoving, there's no name calling, there's no jumping off
• 32:22
  the ropes. There's no soap in the eyes,
• 32:23
  nothing. If you do, guys, it's automatic.
• 32:27
  I'm not going to try to figure out who started it because I
• 32:29
  wasn't in there. You both go to the corner.
• 32:33
  Even when the four year old he just turned 4 has it in for the
• 32:36
  five. Year old now, if you know Lila.
• 32:40
  They they they reciprocate, so I'm not.
• 32:41
  Saying it's all the three, you know the younger kids fault but.
• 32:44
  And you know, I'll digress for a second.
• 32:46
  Experts give really dumb advice on this.
• 32:48
  They say let them solve their own conflicts, let them work it
• 32:54
  out on their own, let them have conflict resolution skills.
• 32:58
  Now the problem is your older kid is going to dominate because
• 33:01
  he's bigger, smarter, faster, stronger.
• 33:03
  Even though the four year old provokes your older son is like
• 33:07
  no, no, I'm not putting up with this.
• 33:08
  Or he loses his mind because he tries conflict revolution and
• 33:11
  the three-year old does not care.
• 33:13
  Exactly. That's exactly what I mean.
• 33:15
  Many of these theories don't work.
• 33:17
  So you have a rule, can't do this.
• 33:20
  So you tell both boys, you sit on a couch over there, You sit
• 33:23
  over there and they don't. They get off the couch or they
• 33:29
  do this. Am I still on the couch?
• 33:33
  Am I on the couch now, mom? Are they sit there in the
• 33:36
  discount? Ice cream.
• 33:38
  That's right. They will do what I call
• 33:40
  escalation. It's very common.
• 33:42
  That's why parents will say I don't, I don't really like the
• 33:45
  discipline because it gets ugly. And So what happens is it it
• 33:48
  builds in inconsistency. I'll try to get you to take your
• 33:53
  discipline, but if you don't, I'm going to try to work my way
• 33:57
  through this or negotiate or do something or ignore you or
• 33:59
  whatever, because I don't want to have 6 minutes, 8 minutes, 20
• 34:04
  minutes of a brawl here. OK, boys, you don't have to sit
• 34:11
  on the couch. Everything's gone.
• 34:15
  No Legos. No.
• 34:17
  Oh no, those are gone. Oh my gosh, those are gone.
• 34:19
  Favorite shirt is gone. Favorite cup is gone.
• 34:21
  Favorite hat is gone. Outside is gone.
• 34:23
  Toys are gone that consistently though.
• 34:25
  Do you have like a list premeditated of the 10 things
• 34:28
  that go when the discipline is not taken, it's?
• 34:30
  Really easy. Anything that remotely is a perk
• 34:33
  or a privilege. Anything that means if you're
• 34:38
  getting juice, his favorite juice, his favorite orange juice
• 34:41
  for dinner, and you put milk or water in front of him and he
• 34:46
  said, well, my juice, you haven't sat on the couch yet.
• 34:51
  It's kind of like Columbo. You're going well, well, wait a
• 34:55
  minute. Don't you understand?
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• 36:49
  Just to play this out right, practically speaking.
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  Yes, hypothetically of a mother of three who has two boys that
• 36:56
  are old. Before a hypothetical mother of
• 36:58
  three or a mother of seven, I'm thinking about my sister-in-law
• 37:01
  right now. Or who could be any number of
• 37:03
  people, right? But let's say you do this.
• 37:04
  So you're like, they're not, they're not following the
• 37:06
  discipline, They're not enforcing, They're not
• 37:08
  listening. You know, they're showing some
• 37:10
  weakness. But it's going to be the brawl.
• 37:11
  You don't have the 20 minutes. You have other kids.
• 37:13
  You've got a baby that's crying in the other room that you need
• 37:15
  to take care of. OK.
• 37:16
  So you're going to do this blackout thing because this is
• 37:18
  the new standard here. That's how we'd handle things
• 37:20
  around here. How do you enforce the blackout?
• 37:23
  Because for example, let's say they're like, OK, they wander
• 37:25
  off like, oh, we got out of that one.
• 37:26
  And then you're like, well, no juice, no dessert, you know, no
• 37:29
  going to the park right now. You're just, you sit here, you
• 37:32
  sit here. Well, they've get their books.
• 37:35
  They're like reading books on the couch.
• 37:36
  Do you take the book away? If you want your mom, you make
• 37:39
  the rules. There's.
• 37:40
  The difference, OK. You you don't go to the you
• 37:42
  don't go to the expert manual flip.
• 37:44
  It in, but at some point it's something that hurts, like the
• 37:46
  Lego set is a big one. So yeah, no Legos until you mind
• 37:49
  mom and do you sit in the sit on the couch and do your time out?
• 37:52
  Something that hurts. Parents will always say that I
• 37:55
  got to find something that makes a difference to him.
• 37:57
  He doesn't seem to care about anything.
• 37:58
  I try it, nothing works. No, no, no, no.
• 38:01
  It works the instant you do it. You taught a lesson.
• 38:05
  If A then B. Now, will that change the
• 38:07
  behavior? Well, that comes in time.
• 38:09
  So he may have to find out if I try to sabotage blackout.
• 38:12
  In other words, he's going to go get his stuffed animal.
• 38:14
  He's going to go like this. He's just going to hold it and
• 38:16
  stare at you like I got my stuffed animal.
• 38:19
  What are you going to do? You can just look at him and
• 38:21
  say, well, I'm not going to try to yank it off of you, but I
• 38:25
  will tell you this. It's going to be gone for a long
• 38:28
  time now. And then as soon as he goes to
• 38:31
  sleep or he forgets about his stuffed animal and you put it up
• 38:33
  on the refrigerator and hide the ladder so we can't get up there
• 38:37
  and get. It how long do you do the
• 38:38
  because the other thing with the younger kids, they forget things
• 38:40
  after hours. Right, but you're reminding
• 38:43
  them. OK, if he says I'm outside.
• 38:46
  Oh, you. No, you.
• 38:48
  You didn't put you put your head down yet.
• 38:50
  So basically the removal of the privilege is until they fulfill
• 38:53
  the discipline for the original the original misbehavior.
• 38:56
  OK, now let's add something to it.
• 38:58
  You said they'll go sit on the couch and scream if you go over
• 39:02
  and say, you know, the longer you scream, the longer you're
• 39:05
  going to sit, son. And let's say that he screams
• 39:08
  and finally has had enough and he gets off.
• 39:11
  So what he did was scream for 12 minutes and then get off before
• 39:14
  you told him he could. OK, now I'm not concerned about
• 39:18
  that. I'm not looking at that kid and
• 39:20
  going, what an obnoxious little brat.
• 39:22
  No, no, no, no. Kids are kids.
• 39:23
  They do this kind of stuff. What I'm concerned about is what
• 39:27
  the parent does. In other words, well, look what
• 39:32
  he did and you could look at him and say, you know, before you're
• 39:37
  off blackout, you got to sit twice as long.
• 39:42
  And not scream and. Not scream.
• 39:44
  Or at least do 12 minutes again, but no scream.
• 39:47
  Quiet time. Quiet time, Yeah, No.
• 39:50
  You got to hold the line though, like you can't ever give because
• 39:53
  here's the question. I can imagine myself, you know,
• 39:55
  trying to employ this approach and we've done some similar
• 39:57
  things and then getting distracted or busy with mother
• 40:01
  kids or other responsibilities and then not remembering, oh, we
• 40:05
  got to stick to this thing from a transgression that was, you
• 40:08
  know, at this point. 1964. You know, you know hours ago,
• 40:11
  which is 1964 to the child. You don't have to be 100%
• 40:16
  consistent. Wow, that's the child expert.
• 40:20
  OK, this. And now we're getting to the
• 40:22
  encouraging advice. Absolutely.
• 40:24
  The average parent is anywhere between 10 and 20% consistent,
• 40:28
  and that's usually good enough. For example, you tell your son
• 40:32
  to pick up his Legos and you check and he hasn't picked him
• 40:35
  up. Leo, Legos, please.
• 40:39
  OK, So he putzes around, he throws a few in there, and then
• 40:42
  he wanders off. Leo, how many times?
• 40:45
  I'm going to tell you now. You've already told him three
• 40:47
  times, so you're down to 25% consistency already.
• 40:50
  Yeah. And at this point, there's
• 40:51
  escalation because there's like a.
• 40:53
  You don't exactly raised yes, you don't say.
• 40:56
  Voice, which is not a good thing.
• 40:57
  You. Don't say, Leo.
• 40:59
  If I tell you 12 more times, I'm afraid I'm going to raise my
• 41:03
  voice. I'm feeling anger pangs.
• 41:05
  Leo. No.
• 41:06
  You want to kill him, OK. And you feel so terrible.
• 41:09
  I'm supposed to be a loving mom. I feel so awful.
• 41:12
  That's what will happen if you allow that to go on.
• 41:15
  These are ideals, Lila. This isn't.
• 41:17
  This isn't something that any parent can reach.
• 41:19
  So, so in that case, you would just say, listen, you didn't
• 41:22
  pick up your Legos. I am picking them up and they're
• 41:24
  going in the and they're gone. Just bye, bye, OK.
• 41:27
  Very, very quietly, very calmly, just that's it.
• 41:29
  Let me let me share with you something that happened in our
• 41:31
  home once and I'll this will give you some idea of my wife's
• 41:34
  strength of will. Now, obviously, children vary in
• 41:37
  strength of will. I wouldn't consider any of my
• 41:41
  children strong willed. Now that, yeah, I know that.
• 41:44
  That's the look I get because you're thinking, oh, come on,
• 41:46
  wait a minute, 10 of them under certain circumstances.
• 41:49
  And here's why the strongest willed of my 10 kids is not
• 41:56
  stronger willed than his mother. I'll show you.
• 41:59
  That's a that's a good one. That's the goal.
• 42:02
  One time they were fighting over Serial, they're battling over
• 42:05
  the box, and you know how it is. They bring out the caliper and
• 42:08
  the metric scale and they weigh out and you got two more flakes
• 42:11
  than I did, and box went all over the floor just every which
• 42:16
  way. So my wife had him clean it up.
• 42:19
  Next time she went to the grocery store, she only put corn
• 42:22
  flakes in the cart for one month.
• 42:29
  Instead of the nothing else, the nice stuff or whatever they were
• 42:32
  having. I begged her.
• 42:34
  I said honey please I'll give you a 50 bucks for one box of
• 42:38
  Golden Grahams 1 box. That's what you.
• 42:40
  Ate Fruity Pebbles? Come on.
• 42:42
  Yeah, stuff is bad for you, Doctor.
• 42:43
  I know, I know, I know, I know, I know because I'm only 16 years
• 42:48
  old too, and look what they've done.
• 42:50
  But given that, she made a point, she said.
• 42:52
  You see what I you see what she did when they just fought like
• 42:56
  that over the cereal one month in the cart, nothing but
• 43:01
  cornflakes. And they took it and was there.
• 43:03
  So you're saying that approach? It sounds like it worked really
• 43:06
  well for you, for you both. Well, they realize you do that
• 43:09
  at the kitchen table again, you're going to do it again.
• 43:12
  You know, that's the key. You're going to do it again.
• 43:14
  You go to confession and I got to believe you say bless me,
• 43:18
  Father. Here's the list.
• 43:20
  It's the same stuff I've been telling you for years.
• 43:23
  So we do that, but we get frustrated at the kids when they
• 43:27
  don't learn as quick as we think they should.
• 43:28
  You know, I have sent him to the corner 27 times this month and
• 43:32
  he's still doing it. I go, what do you expect?
• 43:36
  You're teaching him. Eventually he's going to get
• 43:39
  tired of the corner. Eventually he's going to say,
• 43:41
  you know what, the 1st 16 times I went here, it wasn't so bad.
• 43:45
  It's starting to be a drag now, you know.
• 43:48
  What would be the, the, I don't know, the gut test or something
• 43:52
  for knowing where you're at and your parenting then?
• 43:54
  Because I think people listening to you are going to are thinking
• 43:56
  maybe, OK, well, the wife at the beginning, she's like, they're
• 43:59
  all really well behaved. But then he's being realistic,
• 44:01
  like they're going to still make mistakes.
• 44:02
  They're human beings, right? They're not like, you know,
• 44:05
  they're not machines. And so you can't like train the
• 44:07
  robot. They're human beings with free
• 44:09
  will. My wife always said we're
• 44:10
  raising people. Yes, like how would you assess a
• 44:15
  child or a group of children and family for yeah, they're,
• 44:18
  they're on the right track in terms of discipline and
• 44:20
  behavior. This stuff is normal.
• 44:22
  And then how would you be able to assess and be like, no,
• 44:24
  you've got to really work on your consistency, mom.
• 44:26
  You got to really work on holding the line, Mom.
• 44:28
  You draw a parallel to adult diagnosis.
• 44:33
  Typically, one of the conditions of getting a diagnosis is how
• 44:38
  much it interferes with your life.
• 44:40
  So if you as a parent are saying, I am not enjoying this
• 44:44
  at all, this is frustrating. I'm not liking my own kid.
• 44:50
  This is this is just every day is a potential battle, a
• 44:54
  struggle. Then you reassess, you say, what
• 44:57
  is going on here? Now here's the catch, Lila.
• 45:01
  And again, I put this back at the foot of experts.
• 45:04
  We tend to look at the child. Something's wrong with that kid.
• 45:09
  Why is he like that? You know, he doesn't listen.
• 45:12
  He's not cooperative. He's stubborn, he's strong
• 45:16
  willed. He's got ODD.
• 45:19
  ODD, yeah. So we we start, we start blaming
• 45:22
  the child, I would say roughly 90% of the time with
• 45:27
  alterations. And we medicate them then too.
• 45:29
  Oh yeah. Oh gosh, yes, oh, of course.
• 45:33
  Because something's wrong with the child 90% of the time you
• 45:36
  can improve the dynamics of the parent, whether it's more
• 45:40
  affection, whether it's better discipline, whether it's
• 45:43
  learning to act before you get mad.
• 45:45
  All of these things will affect the child.
• 45:49
  I get parents coming into my office and they will say, this
• 45:53
  kids tough. This kid is just tough.
• 45:56
  And I'll ask what does the what does the school say?
• 46:02
  I don't understand that the teacher doesn't see any of this.
• 46:06
  The teacher says he's a sweetheart.
• 46:09
  What did you do? Well, I got out my phone and I
• 46:12
  said, is this the boy, little brown haired kid with a gap in
• 46:15
  his teeth? I got the right school here.
• 46:18
  And I said, you see, it's in the dynamic.
• 46:21
  He goes to school. Now that teacher doesn't have a
• 46:23
  fraction of a parent's authority, but he doesn't know
• 46:25
  that. His perception is she has
• 46:27
  authority. So therefore I will be
• 46:29
  cooperating and I'll be pleasant.
• 46:31
  That's the other thing. Well disciplined kids are
• 46:33
  happier and more pleasant. They're not suffocated.
• 46:38
  So the parent alters things and the child gets better.
• 46:42
  One of the more common things I hear from clients, after a
• 46:44
  couple of sessions, they'll say it's like I'm living with a
• 46:48
  different child. You only did the other day.
• 46:51
  He came up and he sat in my lap and he hugged me and he said, I
• 46:54
  love you, Mommy. He hasn't said that to me in 3
• 46:57
  weeks. And he's so much more pleasant.
• 47:00
  I go, yeah, because you're not fighting with him.
• 47:05
  You're disciplining him, which is true.
• 47:06
  And you're doing better discipline than you did, but
• 47:09
  you're not fighting with him. But I feel mean when I
• 47:13
  discipline. I just feel mean.
• 47:16
  You can discipline mean, but discipline itself is not mean.
• 47:21
  Discipline is a loving gift. I always tell parents this If
• 47:24
  you don't do it because you feel guilty or you're afraid he won't
• 47:28
  like you or you're afraid of doing something psychologically
• 47:30
  incorrect, you'll be turning that child over to those people
• 47:34
  out there. A judge, a landlord, an army
• 47:37
  Sergeant, a police officer and employer.
• 47:40
  Somebody will discipline that child.
• 47:42
  And he said the world doesn't love him like you do.
• 47:45
  So please, you got to go against your instinct, Lila.
• 47:49
  I hate to discipline. I hate it.
• 47:51
  I don't like it. I want to get along with my
• 47:54
  kids, but I knew I had to. I knew I had to go against my
• 47:59
  feelings to do what was right. We had a we had a 0 tolerance
• 48:04
  for disrespect you. Oh my, that gives that gives you
• 48:07
  the heaviest consequences if you mistreat A sibling or your
• 48:11
  parents. Heavy consequences.
• 48:12
  I mean, we're talking maybe 5 days straight of blackout or
• 48:16
  we're talking a 500 word essay. You, you don't roll your eyes at
• 48:20
  your mom. I came home one day and my wife,
• 48:25
  I picked up that she was unhappy.
• 48:28
  Now, Lila, I am a trained therapist.
• 48:33
  I am able to read the subtle cues of a spouse and I don't
• 48:39
  want any of the women listening to this program to think, well,
• 48:43
  my husband can't do that because I'm a professional.
• 48:46
  So I came home and I picked up that my wife was unhappy.
• 48:52
  She was coming down the driveway holding two children by the neck
• 48:56
  going, I do not like them, Ray. I am.
• 48:58
  I do not like them here or there.
• 48:59
  I do not like them anywhere. I do not like them.
• 49:01
  I don't care. I picked up on that.
• 49:03
  I thought, hmm, I'll bet she's upset.
• 49:08
  So Sarah, the 13 year old came out of the house.
• 49:11
  What do you want me to do now, Mom?
• 49:14
  Well, Sarri, I need you to sweep out the garage.
• 49:17
  After you're done doing that, you're going to empty the
• 49:19
  dishwasher, put it all away, and then you come back to me and
• 49:23
  I'll tell you what was. She one of the ones with the
• 49:25
  neck or she was mistaken, She. Was an extra 1 no the next one
• 49:28
  she was the. She was she was doing good
• 49:30
  things. She was obeying or No, she
• 49:32
  wasn't. You'll find out.
• 49:32
  OK, I'll let you keep. Going, I said.
• 49:34
  So what'd you do, honey? She said.
• 49:35
  I gave Sarah an hour's worth of Labor.
• 49:38
  Now that was a consequence in our house for the older kids.
• 49:40
  You're going to misbehave. You're going to get labor hours
• 49:42
  worth half an hour, whatever, I said.
• 49:44
  What did Sarah do to get an hour's worth of Labor?
• 49:47
  My wife said she rolled her eyes at me.
• 49:54
  Now, many parents accept rolling of the ice because the experts
• 49:58
  tell them children are expressing themselves.
• 50:01
  They're not throwing a brick. They're not cussing at you.
• 50:03
  They're just rolling their eyes. Lily, you're delightful.
• 50:07
  But if you ask me a question that I don't like and I do this,
• 50:13
  you'll never ask me back. I.
• 50:15
  Mean. Ever because you'll think what a
• 50:17
  jerk that's what rolling eyes is It's.
• 50:21
  Depends how good the other advice is.
• 50:22
  Well, yeah, you might use it, but you won't ask me back.
• 50:25
  You might cut out the roll eye. Rolling eyes is disdainful.
• 50:28
  It is. It's very.
• 50:29
  So she got an hour's worth of Labor for rolling her eyes.
• 50:33
  Is that because it's so bad? No, it's because your mother's
• 50:37
  so valuable. You don't do that to your mom.
• 50:41
  And I think that's where that kind of understanding was for my
• 50:47
  wife, which is there certain things we expect?
• 50:50
  We love you desperately and we don't want to fight with you.
• 50:53
  We don't want to argue. Parents will say to me, I talk
• 50:59
  worse to my kids than I talk to any other human being.
• 51:03
  And I see you want to do that. Do you?
• 51:05
  Well, no. Well, probably because you're
• 51:08
  getting frustrated because of discipline or because of stuff
• 51:11
  they do. Sounds like it's a mix of high
• 51:16
  expectations. Very high.
• 51:19
  According to the culture anyways.
• 51:20
  Very. High.
• 51:21
  Oh, you're off the charts. Intense affection, intense
• 51:24
  affection and then a willingness to calmly have consequences and
• 51:29
  follow up as best you can. It's not going to be perfect,
• 51:32
  the consistency, but to take control with the consequences,
• 51:35
  not violent, angry consequences, the consequences that have a lot
• 51:39
  to do with removing, as you say, blackout privileges or
• 51:42
  opportunities or things that the kids like.
• 51:44
  Very well summarized. This is not rocket science.
• 51:48
  See the experts. My first book was a book titled
• 51:51
  You're a Better Parent Than You Think.
• 51:53
  I love that one. It was because I saw so many
• 51:57
  parents when I worked at the mental Health Center who were
• 51:59
  insecure, unsure of themselves, second guessing, lost authority.
• 52:05
  And I'm wondering what is going on here.
• 52:07
  Well, that was pretty much at the very beginning of the
• 52:10
  onslaught of the experts and all their theories and all their
• 52:14
  notions, and they were confusing parents.
• 52:17
  Parents were trying to be psychologically correct.
• 52:21
  And in so doing, they were losing authority, they were
• 52:24
  losing resolve. They were second guessing
• 52:27
  themselves. And I thought, this is this is
• 52:29
  bad. This is this is hurting a lot of
• 52:31
  good people. People will say to me, well,
• 52:36
  yeah, you're an expert, though, so why should we listen to you?
• 52:39
  And my answer is you don't have to listen to me.
• 52:42
  Take what I'm saying and judge it.
• 52:44
  How well does it work for your family and your house?
• 52:47
  See if it works. See if it squares with your
• 52:50
  instincts and reality. If it doesn't, dump it.
• 52:54
  But I'm not going to say if you don't do it my way, let me tell
• 52:58
  you what's going to happen to your kid, which is all too often
• 53:01
  the message. I think a lot of parents are
• 53:05
  very deep down on a primordial level, afraid of messing up
• 53:08
  their kids. Absolutely.
• 53:10
  Especially if they had were messed up at all in their
• 53:12
  childhood. It's like extra, extra intense,
• 53:15
  that fear. Yes.
• 53:16
  What do you recommend to parents?
• 53:19
  Because I'm meaning even suffer from the expert stuff.
• 53:21
  They're just like, really worried about making a mistake.
• 53:24
  In the beginning, I used to say parents are dominated by the
• 53:29
  fear of not being psychologically correct.
• 53:33
  After doing this for 40 plus years, Lila, I am now convinced
• 53:37
  that parents are dominated by the fear of their child's
• 53:41
  reaction. Will he hate me if I don't give
• 53:45
  her a smartphone when she's 14? Is she going to be resentful?
• 53:50
  Is she going to be sneaky and defiant?
• 53:52
  Is she going to be socially stunted?
• 53:55
  Am I going to have all kinds of trouble with the relatives and
• 53:58
  everybody else who thinks I'm a throwback Neanderthal?
• 54:01
  So now their parenting scared is what they're doing.
• 54:04
  And there's a couple of brief answers to that.
• 54:06
  One, God knew that kids were going to be raised by us with
• 54:11
  all of our frailties, all of our humanness, all of our emotions,
• 54:15
  all of our uncertainties that we have.
• 54:18
  He knew that, so He built them to withstand us.
• 54:22
  They're not spun glass. They're steel belted radials.
• 54:27
  I see so many kids who come from vicious environments.
• 54:31
  Some of them have become priests.
• 54:34
  Some of them are among the most delightful, well adjusted folks
• 54:37
  I know. Now, how did that happen?
• 54:39
  Well, the durability of the human spirit.
• 54:42
  There's a lot of research coming out now, Lila, that says that
• 54:46
  we, we can survive and thrive really bad environments.
• 54:51
  So if in fact we can do that, just think how much more.
• 54:55
  So we'll do it in a loving home with parents who are trying to
• 54:59
  be good parents. Here's what I always tell
• 55:01
  parents. If my children go astray, I want
• 55:07
  to be able to say it's because they had to go through me, not
• 55:14
  because I stepped aside. That's beautiful and you're
• 55:18
  praying them, praying for them. Even if that step aside, it's
• 55:21
  part of a long path to eventually back, come back home.
• 55:24
  Because even if they go astray, that's not the end.
• 55:26
  There's jump ahead. Let's jump ahead to something
• 55:29
  I'm sure you see a lot of. And now I see this in so many of
• 55:34
  my clients. These are parents who have
• 55:37
  raised their children, and the children have left the church.
• 55:40
  A. Lot of people.
• 55:42
  It's an epidemic. It's really heartbreaking for so
• 55:45
  many families. Unprecedented in human history.
• 55:50
  So what I have had now starting to do with the end of a lot of
• 55:52
  my talks is Ioffer this, I say I'm going to take your guilt
• 55:56
  away. I want to prove to you logically
• 56:01
  that your days of beating yourself up over this, that your
• 56:03
  children have left the faith they were raised with, that you
• 56:06
  tried your best to impart the faith to them.
• 56:10
  And now they're either drifting, rejecting, maybe they've cut off
• 56:14
  ties with you because they don't like your religious beliefs or
• 56:16
  your political affiliation. Will you help me with this?
• 56:20
  Lila, I'm going to ask you a set of questions.
• 56:21
  Would you answer them? Let's do it.
• 56:23
  Is there a God? Yes.
• 56:25
  Is Christ God? Yes.
• 56:27
  Was he sinless? Yes.
• 56:28
  Could he perform miracles? Yes.
• 56:30
  Did he have a perfect understanding of human nature?
• 56:32
  Yes. Could he get most people to
• 56:35
  follow him? And I always tell these parents
• 56:41
  so. Maybe most, but not all.
• 56:43
  I don't think most, I don't think they killed him.
• 56:46
  Oh, I see. I see what you're saying.
• 56:47
  Yeah, you're right. So I want to say to these
• 56:49
  parents, you think you're better at this than the God man, Can
• 56:53
  you do a miracle? Can you even do a crummy card
• 56:55
  trick? That's a good one.
• 56:58
  Our Lord himself couldn't get most people to follow him.
• 57:00
  We think there's some kind of spiritual formula that we must
• 57:03
  have missed it. You know, I want to pray the
• 57:05
  rosary in Aramaic, kneeling on broken glass while I levitated.
• 57:08
  You know, my husband, let him sit on the couch.
• 57:10
  Spiritual sloppiness. And we think we just failed.
• 57:14
  My 10 children are grown. I got some probably going to
• 57:18
  serve a church. I got some probably going to
• 57:20
  serve time. You know, they're all so
• 57:22
  different in the way they absorb the faith.
• 57:25
  How would you encourage parents to be self aware where they both
• 57:30
  accept their limitations and imperfections and the reality
• 57:33
  that their child has free will and we live in the world that we
• 57:36
  live in. But then they are also there's a
• 57:39
  balance of them acknowledging, oh, I've really got to work on
• 57:41
  my patients. I got to not lose it or oh, I
• 57:44
  need to be. I'm at 25% consistency.
• 57:46
  I got to bump up to 50 at at minimum here.
• 57:48
  Or oh, I'm spending too much time or our family is spending
• 57:51
  too much time on sports or work or whatever other thing that's
• 57:56
  not distracting from consistent family time or time with the
• 57:59
  children. How, how do you give us some
• 58:03
  tools for how parents can run this analysis?
• 58:07
  And you, you said something earlier.
• 58:08
  So I'm kind of asking it the kind of double I guess, because
• 58:10
  you you said, well, if something looks like it's broken, then you
• 58:12
  really start evaluating then. Let's take a couple of those
• 58:16
  that you said. Let's take patience.
• 58:18
  When parents say I need to develop more patience, I'm not
• 58:21
  patient. I can't believe this.
• 58:23
  There are several key things that parents are doing to
• 58:26
  themselves that make them feel like they're not patient.
• 58:29
  OK, First is they forget that they're raising a child, a
• 58:35
  self-centered, the universe revolves around me, impulsive
• 58:42
  human being who has to grow out of that over years and years and
• 58:46
  years. And I dare say I haven't
• 58:48
  outgrown it and neither have you.
• 58:50
  So you remember that you're raising a person, a soul who's
• 58:54
  capable of pretty much anything, and as a parent, you're going to
• 58:58
  have to try to anticipate or deal with.
• 59:00
  That's first thing. If you realize what you're
• 59:02
  dealing with. Parents get frustrated when
• 59:04
  their kid acts like a kid and they have to discipline him.
• 59:07
  Why are you getting so frustrated?
• 59:08
  You know he's going to do stuff like that, so deal with it.
• 59:12
  But I've been dealing with it. It's OK.
• 59:14
  God's been dealing with you for how many years now?
• 59:16
  So true. OK, so that's first thing.
• 59:19
  Second thing, they wait too long.
• 59:22
  Your two boys are bickering and you've warned them.
• 59:26
  Boys settle. Please.
• 59:28
  They settle for. 12 seconds, no fighting.
• 59:30
  Yeah, they settle for 12 seconds.
• 59:32
  They start up again. Did you hear me?
• 59:35
  Did you hear me? Are the totally meaningless Our
• 59:39
  family doesn't fight. Oh yeah.
• 59:40
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. You better tell.
• 59:42
  Your family. Tell your boys.
• 59:43
  That tell them to get off the boxing gloves.
• 59:46
  Third time you go, I'm coming in there.
• 59:49
  Now. By the 4th time you're feeling
• 59:51
  pretty frustrated and pretty impatient.
• 59:52
  Why? You went on too long at the
• 59:56
  first sign of mistreating each other.
• 59:58
  If you act, you act before you're frustrated.
• 1:00:01
  If you just let this continue to badger until you finally I can't
• 1:00:04
  take this anymore, then you go, Why do I get so impatient?
• 1:00:07
  Well, I would too if I let it go on that long.
• 1:00:10
  That's another factor 3 you take it personal.
• 1:00:17
  I am trying to raise these children and I love them and I
• 1:00:20
  do all kinds of things for them and this is how they act.
• 1:00:24
  This is what they do. Do they want to just make my
• 1:00:26
  life miserable or what? No, they don't want to make your
• 1:00:31
  life miserable. They want to do what they want
• 1:00:33
  to do. You just happen to be in the
• 1:00:34
  way, that's all. So you don't take it personal.
• 1:00:38
  You know, if you're going to screw up, it's you screwed up.
• 1:00:41
  I'm here to try to deal with it. So those are some of the
• 1:00:44
  elements of of losing patience. OK, That's a fact.
• 1:00:47
  That's a big factor. Another factor in terms of
• 1:00:50
  standards, this is what the experts have done to parents.
• 1:00:54
  And this makes them insecure. Lila, you know, if you put your
• 1:01:01
  standards too high, your children are going to rebel.
• 1:01:05
  They're going to just spit out those standards.
• 1:01:07
  You know, if you make them go to church by the time they're 19,
• 1:01:11
  they're going to puke up religion.
• 1:01:12
  They're just going to decide, you forced me to go to church
• 1:01:15
  and now I don't have to because I'm an adult.
• 1:01:19
  So the first thing is that's nonsense.
• 1:01:23
  You put your standards where they belong, knowing you're not
• 1:01:27
  going to reach them. But that's by definition what a
• 1:01:30
  standard is. If I don't want you mistreating
• 1:01:33
  your sister ever, that's a standard.
• 1:01:36
  That's a perfect standard. Now, I know you're not going to
• 1:01:38
  reach it, but that's the standard.
• 1:01:41
  I'm not going to go. Well, that is kind of high,
• 1:01:44
  isn't it? All right, I'll tell you what.
• 1:01:47
  You're allowed to push her down twice a week and you can scream
• 1:01:50
  at her once and no kicking. OK, Below the knee.
• 1:01:54
  Below the knee. You can kick Below the knee.
• 1:01:55
  I don't want to have too high a standard.
• 1:01:57
  Well, what is this if you're not allowed to be disrespectful to
• 1:02:00
  Mom? Well, oh, boy, that seems kind
• 1:02:03
  of high, doesn't it? All right, I'll tell you what.
• 1:02:05
  You're allowed three. Yeah, right, Mom.
• 1:02:08
  Or whatever. Or get a clue.
• 1:02:12
  Mom, you can have three of those a week.
• 1:02:14
  OK, but that makes no sense. A standard, by its definition,
• 1:02:19
  is something you reach for. Either that or our Lord didn't
• 1:02:22
  know what he was talking about when he said you must be
• 1:02:24
  perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect.
• 1:02:27
  Then I want to go. Jesus, have you been listening
• 1:02:30
  to the experts? That's a standard.
• 1:02:32
  Now we Christians are going to rebel.
• 1:02:35
  Oh, and we do of. Course we do, but it's not
• 1:02:38
  because of the standard, it's because we want to do what we
• 1:02:40
  want to do. Wow, yeah, it's so true.
• 1:02:43
  Do you think it's important to communicate the standard?
• 1:02:46
  Like what what's what would be your recommendation for the
• 1:02:48
  communication of the span, the standard to the kids?
• 1:02:51
  Most of the stuff that kids do, that's normal misbehavior and
• 1:02:55
  most of the stuff that frustrates parent is repetitive
• 1:02:57
  stuff. Bedtime, bad times, meal
• 1:03:00
  ordeals, chore shirking, sibling quibbling, Homer castles,
• 1:03:05
  curfew, just it's repetitive stuff.
• 1:03:08
  So they know the standard. I mean, you've already talked to
• 1:03:11
  him about it. You've already disciplined it 6
• 1:03:12
  times. Not rocket science.
• 1:03:14
  It's no. They know the standard.
• 1:03:15
  You know when you don't. Fight yeah with your brother.
• 1:03:17
  When you fight with your brother, you don't have to keep
• 1:03:19
  telling him. Now, do you know the rule?
• 1:03:21
  You're not allowed to fight. Well, I think that's the
• 1:03:22
  experts. It's like every single time
• 1:03:24
  they're like, don't hit. We want to take good care of our
• 1:03:28
  little sister because you. Know what?
• 1:03:30
  When you say we don't hit, I could just picture the average
• 1:03:32
  kid gone. Maybe you don't.
• 1:03:34
  I do OK. It's just like what?
• 1:03:36
  What are you you're talking? About I mean you can still say
• 1:03:38
  don't hit, it's not good to hit, but your point is you don't like
• 1:03:41
  make it a whole coaching session you.
• 1:03:43
  Don't make it the child. Explain it that's what you're
• 1:03:45
  saying. Kylie, you don't have to keep
• 1:03:46
  reminding him. You've told him 212 times.
• 1:03:50
  You. Think they understand the idea,
• 1:03:52
  even if they're not living it out in their behavior yet.
• 1:03:54
  Do you have a dog? No, we don't have a dog.
• 1:03:58
  I told you I get 1A. Big one, big one.
• 1:04:00
  We kind of want one. I don't know.
• 1:04:01
  Those are. Those are.
• 1:04:02
  They're sweethearts. Dogs they are.
• 1:04:04
  I don't. Trust rats.
• 1:04:05
  They're wonderful. They love.
• 1:04:07
  They love my grandkids. Are you a pit bull guy too?
• 1:04:09
  No, I'm all right. No, I mean, OK, you're saying
• 1:04:11
  here's what I say about a dog. I'll say to a parent, do you
• 1:04:14
  have a dog? Yes.
• 1:04:17
  Did you wait until your dog understood not to pee in your
• 1:04:22
  house or did you train him not to pee in your house?
• 1:04:26
  I trained him. Is your 3 year old smarter than
• 1:04:30
  your dog? Yes.
• 1:04:33
  I said well not unless it's Lassie, then he's not.
• 1:04:36
  I said well you're you're you're teaching your 3 year old.
• 1:04:39
  You you. You've sat him on the steps 12
• 1:04:42
  Times Now for kicking his brother.
• 1:04:45
  He knows you don't kick his brother.
• 1:04:47
  You don't have to keep telling him every time.
• 1:04:49
  Do we kick people in this house? Is that your brother?
• 1:04:53
  That is not a soccer ball. That is your brother.
• 1:04:56
  I mean, we do these kinds of things.
• 1:04:57
  It's exhausting. It really is exhausting,
• 1:04:59
  especially if you have 7 kids. It's exhausting.
• 1:05:02
  Instead of just be like if you kick your brother blackouts, you
• 1:05:05
  did it. No more Legos.
• 1:05:06
  There you go. No.
• 1:05:08
  No Emotion? No.
• 1:05:09
  Excitement just like this. I just want to get past it.
• 1:05:11
  Yeah, yeah. So that's that's.
• 1:05:13
  Can they earn the Legos back? Well, sure, of course you can.
• 1:05:15
  Can get out of blackout by doing positive chores.
• 1:05:18
  You can You can build any system of economics you want.
• 1:05:21
  OK, you, you, you. He says, you OK, Mommy?
• 1:05:24
  I I sat on the steps, not going to have my Legos.
• 1:05:26
  You know what, son? I was going to give you your
• 1:05:29
  Legos, but you screamed for a long time.
• 1:05:34
  So no, I maybe maybe tomorrow, maybe the next day, I don't
• 1:05:37
  know. But don't scream when you're on
• 1:05:39
  the steps like that. You're 19 years old.
• 1:05:41
  OK? So yeah, you that's the thing.
• 1:05:44
  I want to get the parents, most of the people who listen to you,
• 1:05:46
  who even listen to me, they're loving people.
• 1:05:49
  And we want to have the perfect rubric and and make sure we do
• 1:05:53
  it right where. You want to be Hallmark family
• 1:05:55
  card? You've forgotten you're not
• 1:05:58
  dealing with something easy like a rabid timber wolf.
• 1:06:01
  You're dealing with a child who is unpredictable and could do
• 1:06:04
  all kinds of stuff. And it doesn't mean that age 22,
• 1:06:08
  they're going to be sitting in Springer talking about you and
• 1:06:11
  the time you left him on the pot for 4 minutes too long.
• 1:06:14
  OK, well, I got to ask when they're a good negotiator.
• 1:06:17
  This is where I see this going sideways.
• 1:06:19
  OK, I've got one child. He is a phenomenal negotiator.
• 1:06:23
  His anchoring, like he anchors way beyond what you could ever
• 1:06:27
  dream of, like, and then he he's willing to walk away at any
• 1:06:31
  point. I mean, this guy, he will not
• 1:06:33
  budget right. Very.
• 1:06:34
  But he's all kind of winsome about it too, right?
• 1:06:36
  He's very excellent at it. I'm imagining with what you're
• 1:06:39
  describing with the blackout. OK, Well, if you do the Legos,
• 1:06:41
  da, da, da, you know, I'm going to take away the Legos.
• 1:06:43
  OK, Well, can I get them back? OK.
• 1:06:45
  Well, Mommy, I'll go sit right now, and then I'll tell my
• 1:06:47
  brother I'm really, really sorry, and then I'll make you a
• 1:06:49
  Lego and I'll build something that you really like, Mom.
• 1:06:51
  OK, of course. Well, maybe maybe that's fine.
• 1:06:54
  Maybe that the answer is sure, then he's going to go above and.
• 1:06:56
  Beyond, but here's a couple of things you could do.
• 1:07:00
  I personally think one of the finest techniques that a parent
• 1:07:04
  can develop is a dumb look. So when your son starts to
• 1:07:09
  negotiate, you go like I, I, I don't understand, you're just
• 1:07:17
  giving him a dumb look. And when we say they're
• 1:07:19
  negotiators, what we're really saying is we have to negotiate
• 1:07:22
  back. You can't be a negotiator.
• 1:07:23
  Somebody's not negotiating with you.
• 1:07:25
  You. Don't play Here's.
• 1:07:26
  What my wife did, My wife used to do this.
• 1:07:28
  She'd say, are you arguing? Like she was confused?
• 1:07:36
  Are you arguing That meant if you say another word,
• 1:07:40
  something's going to happen? Well, like the like the like the
• 1:07:43
  cookies before dinner as an example, Right.
• 1:07:45
  I want a cookie. No, we're it's not before
• 1:07:47
  dinner, please. Just one little piece.
• 1:07:48
  Please. Please.
• 1:07:49
  No, no, we're not doing cookies before dinner.
• 1:07:51
  Please please. Why you keep repeating that?
• 1:07:53
  Why don't you just say to him, you know what, honey?
• 1:07:55
  Please don't ask me again or you won't get a cookie after dinner,
• 1:07:59
  OK? That's why I don't care.
• 1:08:00
  I go. I mean, I just own it.
• 1:08:02
  Sorry, son. You blew the cookie.
• 1:08:04
  Maybe tomorrow. See, it's just kind of.
• 1:08:06
  A easy Yeah, it's kind. Of a kind of a go with the float
• 1:08:09
  kind of thing. I love it.
• 1:08:12
  So off you know what it is. So much of it comes down to, and
• 1:08:14
  this is what general parenting has a problem.
• 1:08:18
  I want my kid to understand. I want him to see that I.
• 1:08:22
  Don't want to hurt him feel. I don't want to make him feel.
• 1:08:28
  I know he's going to argue with you if you let him and you're
• 1:08:30
  not a Jack booted autocrat that says hey, my way or the highway
• 1:08:34
  punk. That's one of the biggest
• 1:08:36
  misunderstandings people have that if you're a constant, I'm
• 1:08:39
  not constant. If you're a consistent firm
• 1:08:41
  discipline, then that's mean. No, the meanest parents I've
• 1:08:47
  seen are the ones who don't discipline well because they get
• 1:08:50
  frustrated and then they say and do things that they they just
• 1:08:54
  can't believe they're doing. That's the part that.
• 1:08:59
  All right, what do you recommend, Doctor Ray, for
• 1:09:02
  developing a healthy family culture where you enjoy you
• 1:09:07
  enjoy your kids, you enjoy your family dynamic.
• 1:09:11
  And I do hear from a lot of moms and dads, but especially the
• 1:09:14
  moms that they're just like, it is a, it's hard, it's hard, it's
• 1:09:18
  hard. You know, the discipline's one
• 1:09:20
  big part of it, but it's like the endless To Do List the
• 1:09:23
  endless responsibilities. And so they're not feeling like
• 1:09:26
  they're enjoying motherhood. To the degree that you can
• 1:09:29
  eliminate or reduce discipline time, which is what you will do
• 1:09:35
  if you're consistent and you mean it, now you have more time
• 1:09:38
  just for the normal interaction. OK, Once kids are not going to
• 1:09:42
  be bad if they know what the rules are, OK, they're not going
• 1:09:47
  to challenge them. So that's the first thing.
• 1:09:48
  Now you got more time for the good stuff.
• 1:09:50
  Secondly, you're going to have to prioritize all these
• 1:09:55
  activities. I have called in one of my books
• 1:09:58
  chasing the good at the cost of the best.
• 1:10:02
  Yeah, it's not bad to be in these sports five nights a week.
• 1:10:06
  That's not bad in and of itself. Something was robbed.
• 1:10:11
  Maybe some dinner was robbed. Maybe the fact that was she's
• 1:10:15
  over there playing soccer and he's over there with Little
• 1:10:17
  League and one of you has to be over there and one of you has to
• 1:10:19
  be over there and we can't even be together to watch the game.
• 1:10:22
  You got to sit back. One of my earlier books I
• 1:10:26
  introduced strong families and 1 mother said she felt trapped
• 1:10:30
  into that. Oh boy, we don't have any family
• 1:10:33
  time. She told her boys.
• 1:10:36
  All right, guys, get yourself a nice hot shower, because when
• 1:10:40
  you come out, I want you to pick two activities.
• 1:10:44
  All the rest go to interfering with our family too much.
• 1:10:50
  When we had 10 kids at home and at one point they were between
• 1:10:53
  16 and four, well, there's a lot of activities there.
• 1:10:57
  So what we did is, first of all, only certain kids were allowed
• 1:11:01
  one activity and we made sure we picked activities that allowed a
• 1:11:07
  lot of free time in our family. I'm not going to put you on a
• 1:11:09
  Little League team that practices 6 nights a week and
• 1:11:11
  has tournaments every other week.
• 1:11:13
  That's not going to happen, OK? You're not some superstar.
• 1:11:17
  The odds of you being a pro or one and 1.26 million, the odds
• 1:11:23
  of us losing family time are pretty close to 1.
• 1:11:26
  So a parent has to make those decisions.
• 1:11:28
  And I think the culture has convinced them children have to
• 1:11:32
  experience these things. You want to whirl around a
• 1:11:34
  child, Yes. And it's nice to pick and
• 1:11:38
  choose. But you ask yourself, is this
• 1:11:40
  robbing our family? Because that's where that's
• 1:11:44
  where the morals and the values are given.
• 1:11:47
  This is where the culture makes the case that you shouldn't have
• 1:11:50
  more than a small handful of kids 1-2 give them.
• 1:11:53
  Enough attention. Yeah, you can't give them enough
• 1:11:55
  opportunities, attention. And so better to have less and
• 1:11:59
  pour into them more than to have more and pour into those more or
• 1:12:02
  less. I said to my wife after we
• 1:12:05
  adopted our 4 year olds, at that point we had 654431.
• 1:12:08
  We adopted the four year old and they had some rough history.
• 1:12:12
  And I said to my wife, I said, you know, they're taking up a
• 1:12:15
  lot of our time and I'm feeling like I can't, I can't
• 1:12:19
  individually interact with the kids as much as I would want.
• 1:12:24
  And my wife said, Raymond, you big dummy.
• 1:12:28
  OK, no, she didn't say that. But I read the look on her face.
• 1:12:32
  She said, Ray, that's why they have brothers and sisters.
• 1:12:38
  That's a lot of the interaction is with their brothers and
• 1:12:40
  sisters, you know, Yeah, it's nice to get on the floor and
• 1:12:42
  play with them that their brothers and sisters are going
• 1:12:45
  to get on the floor and play with them a lot more.
• 1:12:46
  And besides that, Ray, you can't get up half the time you get on
• 1:12:49
  the floor. You have to press your life
• 1:12:50
  alert button. So given that she was right, you
• 1:12:54
  know, the bigger families and there's research, it says this
• 1:12:56
  Lila, that says kids from big families by and large grow up to
• 1:13:01
  be better adjusted, more giving, less selfish.
• 1:13:05
  When my daughter went to college she went to an all girls school
• 1:13:09
  and the president of the college said we have trouble with some
• 1:13:13
  of the freshman girls because they can't get used to having a
• 1:13:16
  roommate. Now my daughter grew up with
• 1:13:21
  four of them in one room and she said just just one roommate.
• 1:13:27
  Wow. She entered Nirvana.
• 1:13:32
  I love that view and the way you articulated that, Doctor Ray,
• 1:13:36
  because it's so encouraging and it's so countercultural.
• 1:13:39
  Oh my gosh, it's so countercultural.
• 1:13:41
  But you're giving your kids the gift of their siblings that
• 1:13:45
  that's what's like not in the equation, right?
• 1:13:47
  Like, oh, we're going to only have one or two or three because
• 1:13:49
  we want to be able to do the soccer practice and the dance
• 1:13:52
  practice and the music practice and the this and the travels to
• 1:13:54
  European destinations and the right and get the car and the
• 1:13:58
  house. And but you didn't give them
• 1:14:01
  another best friend. You didn't give them that other
• 1:14:05
  two, 3, four siblings to play with and to be.
• 1:14:08
  I mean, I am our family. I've got seven siblings and my
• 1:14:11
  my husband and his seven siblings.
• 1:14:13
  These are this is our family. A wild Christmas Eve.
• 1:14:16
  Oh, yeah, it's always a wild and sometimes like this, you know,
• 1:14:19
  this holiday, some holidays, different people do different
• 1:14:22
  homes because it's getting so big and crazy and different.
• 1:14:24
  But yeah, when we get together, it's it's amazing.
• 1:14:26
  But would I trade one of them for what?
• 1:14:28
  An extra music lesson? Like what?
• 1:14:31
  No, I did 3. 100 more square feet in your house.
• 1:14:33
  Right. I mean, for what?
• 1:14:34
  For what I mean, and my parents like, thanks be to God and my
• 1:14:38
  husband's parents, like they poured into us.
• 1:14:40
  We were given so much right? But there's always going to be
• 1:14:43
  something that is a is a trade off, right?
• 1:14:46
  And there are real trade-offs and there are real challenges.
• 1:14:48
  But what are you going to do? Trade another soul?
• 1:14:51
  Get rid of one of those souls, boot them out because they were
• 1:14:53
  like tip the scale a little too much.
• 1:14:55
  I've been doing this a long time, Lila.
• 1:14:57
  Long enough to talk to parents whose children are 3040, fifty
• 1:15:01
  years old. I've heard this so many times.
• 1:15:07
  I wish I would have had more kids.
• 1:15:09
  I have never yet heard a single parent say to me I had too many
• 1:15:14
  kids. Yeah, it's an eternal soul.
• 1:15:18
  How Can you imagine that soul that?
• 1:15:20
  Culture doesn't value kids. It doesn't.
• 1:15:22
  And you know as well as I do, somewhat over 100 countries
• 1:15:26
  right now have negative birth rates, and they suspect that in
• 1:15:30
  a few more decades it's going to be pretty much the whole world's
• 1:15:32
  going to have a negative birth rate.
• 1:15:33
  Well, what's going to happen then?
• 1:15:35
  Because all of the predictions that said we're going to drown
• 1:15:38
  ourselves in people, we're not going to have enough food.
• 1:15:41
  We're going to turn on each other.
• 1:15:42
  Well, the predictions were wrong.
• 1:15:45
  And what has happened is that we've stopped having children.
• 1:15:50
  The modal number of children right now in the US is 1 modal
• 1:15:54
  meeting the most common number. Now that's probably in part
• 1:15:57
  because they haven't had a second yet, but that is the most
• 1:16:00
  common number of children one. So the question becomes.
• 1:16:05
  The birth rate is 1.7 I think. Yes, it is.
• 1:16:08
  We've fallen below the 2.1 for the first time.
• 1:16:11
  We have for for a while there we sustained ourselves right around
• 1:16:14
  2.1. Not anymore.
• 1:16:17
  And there are several countries below 1.
• 1:16:19
  You can't recover from one. After a couple generations of
• 1:16:22
  one, you're in big trouble. So as a result, we've, we've
• 1:16:27
  lost sight of the value of kids just have, and there's many,
• 1:16:33
  many reasons for this. Unfortunately, you now got to go
• 1:16:38
  against the culture if you're going to have more than 1.8
• 1:16:40
  kids, six kids. And I can't tell you how many
• 1:16:42
  mothers have told me. My own parents are getting on
• 1:16:45
  me. My own parents are saying when
• 1:16:47
  are you going to stop? I had one dad tell me we don't
• 1:16:51
  tell our family anymore that we're pregnant.
• 1:16:53
  We don't want to hear it. That's so sad, that's so tough.
• 1:16:58
  Now, how do you balance, and we're talking about this from
• 1:17:01
  the Christian perspective now, of course, and all of this is,
• 1:17:04
  but how do you balance being open to life and generous, right
• 1:17:09
  with OK, we've got these real, you know, situations of dealing
• 1:17:14
  with the needs of our kids, economic realities.
• 1:17:17
  Maybe one of the spouse is really ill.
• 1:17:19
  Whatever is going on and potentially spacing children or
• 1:17:24
  having more of a gap between children.
• 1:17:27
  And I'm going to add one other piece to this.
• 1:17:29
  I've had this controversial discussion lately with some, you
• 1:17:32
  know, friends and people that some good people are having.
• 1:17:35
  OK, well, if I get to 7 kids, is it OK to practice NFP and avoid?
• 1:17:42
  And if God still gives us a baby, great.
• 1:17:43
  But to avoid having children, we're not contracepting because
• 1:17:46
  contraception is immoral, but we're going to generally
• 1:17:49
  speaking, avoid and not try to have a baby.
• 1:17:52
  And but we had seven, so we're generous.
• 1:17:54
  We did. We did the generous thing.
• 1:17:57
  It's OK to practice NFP before 7.
• 1:18:00
  That's the church's teaching. You can practice NFP for a
• 1:18:04
  legitimate reason for your family.
• 1:18:07
  If you, if you have, for example, a mom who every, every
• 1:18:10
  pregnancy she's got terribly sick, she's been bed bound, she
• 1:18:13
  hasn't been able to move and now she's got 3 little ones and
• 1:18:16
  you're going to expect her to be pregnant, that's a legit reason.
• 1:18:19
  Or if you absolutely cannot pay your bills, you're struggling.
• 1:18:24
  Bet that's a legit reason. The church would never say you
• 1:18:27
  have to take any kid at all times no matter what.
• 1:18:30
  No, NFP is very successful. It's more successful than the
• 1:18:33
  pill. You know that.
• 1:18:35
  And so as a consequence, the church would say this with
• 1:18:38
  judicious guidance, you can make this decision.
• 1:18:42
  Now, those who say, well, we've had seven, so we've done our
• 1:18:44
  duty. I think maybe they were
• 1:18:47
  operating out of a false idea, which is that there's some kind
• 1:18:51
  of minimum number that removes you from being sinful, that
• 1:18:56
  removes you from not welcoming life.
• 1:18:59
  No, no, there, there isn't. There is a situation for a small
• 1:19:04
  example with the adoption. I mean, you had 10 you.
• 1:19:08
  Had ten. I was on a plane and I saw a
• 1:19:11
  movie that broke my heart and went home and I told my wife,
• 1:19:14
  honey, can we adopt again? She said, OK, all right, Ray,
• 1:19:21
  see what you think. So we went through all the
• 1:19:23
  process. Hardball, a little little inner
• 1:19:30
  city boy was shot by a random, random gun.
• 1:19:33
  And I thought that kid didn't have a chance.
• 1:19:35
  OK, I was crying. I was crying on the plane, man,
• 1:19:37
  just like this little lady next to me looking at me like what a
• 1:19:40
  weirdo. And I said I got something in my
• 1:19:44
  eye. She took me to a restaurant and
• 1:19:47
  said, Ray, if you want to adopt again, I will.
• 1:19:51
  But I have to tell you, I think I'm at my load limit.
• 1:19:56
  And Violet, I'm a very sensitive guy.
• 1:19:59
  I said, you Sissy, I work for a living.
• 1:20:04
  No, I didn't. I said honey.
• 1:20:06
  Your call, you're lifting the heavy load here in this family.
• 1:20:10
  Your call, You raise kids. All I do is write parenting
• 1:20:14
  books. You got the tougher job.
• 1:20:17
  And so we didn't adopt again. We made a decision that.
• 1:20:20
  Would have been 11. That would have been 11.
• 1:20:22
  Was there a conversation about, I don't know if this is too
• 1:20:26
  personal but oh, let's get a cleaner to come twice a week or
• 1:20:30
  let's let's get a nanny in the house going to live in a pair.
• 1:20:33
  I can afford it. I said, honey, we're going to
• 1:20:35
  get bringing somebody to come in here and and clean when you got,
• 1:20:38
  when you got 10 kids under 12. It smells in there.
• 1:20:41
  It's like a, it's like a landfill.
• 1:20:42
  It's a swamp. You know, it's like, oh man, get
• 1:20:46
  somebody in here, honey, put out the candles.
• 1:20:47
  Get the candles out here. Yeah.
• 1:20:49
  So yeah, we did there for a while.
• 1:20:51
  We we had that, but. It's still I mean 10 even with
• 1:20:53
  all kinds of help 10 and and with potential extra challenges
• 1:20:57
  with behavior stuff or whatever if there was some woundedness in
• 1:21:00
  some of the kids background. So it's a, it's you are very
• 1:21:03
  generous you. Can't worry about what's what's
• 1:21:08
  the word I'm looking for here, Lila, you, you you can't worry
• 1:21:10
  about something going wrong. You got to go.
• 1:21:13
  OK, This is this is the way it is.
• 1:21:16
  And yes, I've, I've had some kids get in some trouble.
• 1:21:18
  Yes, I have some serious trouble.
• 1:21:21
  All right, So we're there to love them.
• 1:21:24
  We're there to to always be open to them.
• 1:21:28
  But at the same time, OK, I'll show you something very, very
• 1:21:32
  personal. Two of my sons I had to ask to
• 1:21:36
  leave the house. How old were they?
• 1:21:39
  18 and 19 and I always wondered if I could do that because many
• 1:21:43
  parents can't do that. Many parents live with kids who
• 1:21:46
  are disrespectful, uncooperative, unpleasant, even
• 1:21:49
  violent, but they will not set a rule that you have to cooperate
• 1:21:54
  or you can't live here because they're afraid what will happen.
• 1:21:57
  Where will he go? Will he crash and burn?
• 1:21:58
  I couldn't live with myself. If he does anything to harm
• 1:22:01
  himself or somebody else. I knew that for those boys at
• 1:22:05
  that time, given what they did, I would be hurting them if I
• 1:22:11
  said, well, you can continue to live here under those
• 1:22:13
  circumstances. Because they weren't respecting
• 1:22:15
  the rules of the home or the the I.
• 1:22:17
  Mean there were younger siblings, yeah, yeah, no,
• 1:22:20
  fortunately those boys now are grown and and we have a very
• 1:22:23
  tight close relationship. But at the time and my wife
• 1:22:26
  agreed we had to do that. What did they do to get jobs and
• 1:22:30
  just go rent A room? My one son was 19.
• 1:22:34
  He said where am I going to go? I said, son, you got a car.
• 1:22:39
  Wow. Tough.
• 1:22:41
  Love and and was it bad? I mean, was he being really
• 1:22:43
  disrespectful or just not? He had he had done something
• 1:22:47
  wrong and we had to, we had to stand our ground.
• 1:22:53
  And he he ended up living with a friend.
• 1:22:55
  And right now he's in his 30s and he's a fine young man.
• 1:22:59
  The other one, I put in a homeless shelter.
• 1:23:02
  Wow. He called me that night.
• 1:23:04
  He said, dad, dad, dad, dad, you got to Get Me Out of here.
• 1:23:07
  I said James, I said I tried to tell you son.
• 1:23:10
  Now, obviously we helped him. We set him up in an apartment
• 1:23:13
  and we we got him help. We didn't abandoned him.
• 1:23:15
  Not going to go. You're on your own, kid.
• 1:23:17
  You're on the street, you're in the gutter.
• 1:23:18
  No, we're not going to do that. But yet at the same time, given
• 1:23:21
  what he did repeatedly now we're not talking.
• 1:23:24
  OK, He screwed up once. Sure.
• 1:23:26
  No, it was something made it clear.
• 1:23:28
  He's like, you know, he thinks he's 18, he can do whatever.
• 1:23:31
  He. He.
• 1:23:31
  Wasn't learning his lesson and he was, he was freeloading,
• 1:23:33
  Yeah. So at that point, now he's a
• 1:23:36
  very, again, a very nice young man.
• 1:23:38
  Now I'm curious, not that it matters in one sense, but if I
• 1:23:42
  were to ask him and then this is personal.
• 1:23:44
  We're getting all personal here, but.
• 1:23:45
  I'll tell you what he's going. To say yeah, what would he say?
• 1:23:48
  Both of them understand it now. They said it.
• 1:23:52
  They said, dad, I didn't get it then, I get it now.
• 1:23:55
  And my one son is very loving tortoise.
• 1:23:57
  Very both of them actually are very, very loving tortoise.
• 1:24:00
  Now, I'm not saying they run their lives as, as I would like
• 1:24:03
  them to run their lives because I think their attachment to
• 1:24:06
  religion is kind of just like a thread.
• 1:24:09
  But at the same time, you know, they got their mother praying
• 1:24:12
  for him. And I try not to pray for him
• 1:24:13
  because I don't want to counteract her prayers, you
• 1:24:16
  know, So at the same time, you, you, you watch them and you and
• 1:24:21
  you see the things start to sink in.
• 1:24:23
  My my son said to me recently, he said, dad, when we were
• 1:24:27
  growing up, I didn't, I didn't get all the stuff that my
• 1:24:31
  friends had and I thought it was because you couldn't afford it
• 1:24:36
  because there were so many of us.
• 1:24:39
  He said, I realize now that's not why is it Dad?
• 1:24:42
  And I said, no PD it's not. He said you could afford it, you
• 1:24:45
  just didn't want to spoil us that way.
• 1:24:47
  I said, yeah, I hope it worked. We had three bikes for 10 kids.
• 1:24:54
  So you had to share the bike. Wow, Do you looking back on your
• 1:24:58
  own parenting? Is there anything that you would
• 1:25:00
  change? As I get older, my greatest
• 1:25:07
  gratitude is that I was born where I was at the time, where I
• 1:25:12
  was to the people I was. I had no choice in that Lila.
• 1:25:17
  I could have been born anywhere else in this world at any other
• 1:25:21
  time. And had I not, had I not been
• 1:25:24
  born where I was, I, I, I wouldn't have known the faith.
• 1:25:27
  I, I wouldn't have been told. If you think about the odds, I
• 1:25:30
  mean, they're, they're less than that.
• 1:25:32
  They're minuscule that I'm going to grow up in a family who
• 1:25:36
  taught me the faith. Now, if I look at my mom and dad
• 1:25:37
  and I say, well, you know, dad did this or mom did that, or I
• 1:25:40
  didn't like when they did this. So what?
• 1:25:44
  That's my mom and dad. They gave me life and they tried
• 1:25:48
  their best. I get so many adult kids now who
• 1:25:53
  write their parents off because they look at the way their
• 1:25:56
  parents raised them and say, well, I don't like that.
• 1:25:59
  Well, you could have done that different.
• 1:26:01
  I don't really need to be around you anymore.
• 1:26:04
  And you know, one of the great tragedies, often times some
• 1:26:09
  therapist told him to do it. Can't tell you how often I hear
• 1:26:13
  that where the therapist says your parents sound like they're
• 1:26:16
  toxic. You need to set boundaries.
• 1:26:20
  You need to sever the relationship until you feel
• 1:26:23
  confident enough to be able to deal with their pathology.
• 1:26:27
  And the parents don't have any pathology.
• 1:26:29
  They were people like you and me trying to raise great kids.
• 1:26:33
  And the kids look back on them and say, yeah, well, I don't
• 1:26:35
  like the way I was raised. You know, Lila, even if I didn't
• 1:26:40
  like the way I was raised, I was given enough that allowed me to
• 1:26:44
  have the life I have. And I got to say my parents had
• 1:26:48
  a big part in that. And when you look at your, your
• 1:26:51
  upbringing of your kids, so you wouldn't change your childhood
• 1:26:54
  because you're, you're grateful, which is a beautiful posture.
• 1:26:57
  Oh my gosh, that's the honestly, that's if you want to have a
• 1:27:01
  successful future, be grateful for the road that let brought
• 1:27:04
  you here and you know, instead of fighting it for your
• 1:27:08
  parenting now that you are where you are looking back, if you're
• 1:27:11
  in your 20 books, you've been in practice for now, you know,
• 1:27:13
  dozens of years at this point. How many years total?
• 1:27:15
  I'm sorry, I don't know off the top of my my head here. 40 plus
• 1:27:18
  years. Is there anything you and your
• 1:27:20
  wife would change in the parenting of your 10 kids?
• 1:27:22
  Boy, I got asked that once by a guy named Matt Fradd, he said.
• 1:27:26
  Really, he said. Matt, you beat me too.
• 1:27:28
  And. He said in that accent, I always
• 1:27:29
  tell him, he said, Matt, you sound smart 'cause you got that
• 1:27:31
  accent. That accent makes you sound so
• 1:27:33
  smart. Yeah, IQ point.
• 1:27:34
  And is smart. Hello.
• 1:27:37
  And Matt said, you have no regrets.
• 1:27:38
  And I said something that made him mad.
• 1:27:40
  I said, I don't think so. How could you not have regrets?
• 1:27:45
  And I said, well, you know, Matt, if you're saying that I I
• 1:27:48
  deliberately did something that I knew was going to be bad for
• 1:27:52
  my kids, that would be a regret. But if you're saying in my
• 1:27:55
  humanness, I did things that looking back on it and I go, you
• 1:28:00
  know, I wish I had more information.
• 1:28:01
  I think I would have done different then.
• 1:28:03
  No, but here's a regret. I do have two things.
• 1:28:08
  Actually two things. Did you tell Matt this or is
• 1:28:11
  this exclusive for the Lila Rose Show?
• 1:28:13
  Well, he came to me later and he said.
• 1:28:15
  We love Matt Fred here. I'm.
• 1:28:16
  Going to work on the accent then if you think.
• 1:28:18
  Of me we're doing. We're now I'm interviewing Matt.
• 1:28:20
  Fred, let's go. He came to me later and he said
• 1:28:24
  I now understand what you were saying because his kids got
• 1:28:27
  older. Oh, so was he?
• 1:28:28
  Was this an interview you did with him or he was talking to
• 1:28:30
  you privately? We were at a conference together
• 1:28:32
  and he privately said to me, if you have any regrets, I went.
• 1:28:35
  No, we're hearing this. Oh man, he got upset.
• 1:28:38
  He said how could you not have any regrets?
• 1:28:40
  I was implying, you know, that I was perfect.
• 1:28:42
  I said no, no. Depends how you define regret.
• 1:28:45
  But I do have a couple that I look back on one.
• 1:28:49
  I would have explained the faith better to my kids.
• 1:28:53
  We live in a culture that says why?
• 1:28:56
  I'm not going to believe this just because the church says it
• 1:28:59
  just because dad says it. Dad, why does the church have
• 1:29:02
  these moral perspectives? I want to know now.
• 1:29:05
  I explained a lot, but I would have done more.
• 1:29:07
  That's one. This is this is simple.
• 1:29:12
  When I said my prayers at night, I always got in bed and I had
• 1:29:16
  the covers over me and my kids couldn't tell if I was sleeping
• 1:29:18
  a print. If I had it to do over again, I
• 1:29:21
  would kneel by my bedside so my kids could see their old man say
• 1:29:26
  in his prayers that that indelible image of this guy
• 1:29:30
  kneeling by the bed say in his prayers.
• 1:29:33
  I would change. I would change that.
• 1:29:36
  Did you pray together as a family?
• 1:29:38
  Yes, and that's why we had 10 because the rosary, the decade
• 1:29:41
  is 10. Perfect.
• 1:29:42
  So that's right. Now the girls would get on me
• 1:29:45
  because I'd lose track. I'd just, I'd drift off during
• 1:29:47
  the rosary, you know, I'd lose track and I'd go.
• 1:29:51
  They go, Dad. I go.
• 1:29:52
  Oh, OK. Hail Mary.
• 1:29:53
  Dad, it's a glory bee. Oh, OK.
• 1:29:56
  I I knew that. I just wanted to see if you were
• 1:29:58
  paying attention. I screwed up to rosary.
• 1:30:01
  I can't count how many times. It's always scary when I'm
• 1:30:04
  praying the rosary with someone else, you know?
• 1:30:06
  Especially if it's a not so personal, like more
• 1:30:08
  professional. I'm like, I'm going to forget my
• 1:30:09
  own words. It's like you get
• 1:30:10
  self-conscious, you know? But Mother Mary's so patient
• 1:30:14
  with us. Just pray it in Aramaic.
• 1:30:16
  There you go. Just do the.
• 1:30:17
  Just do the original tongue. That would be easier to do.
• 1:30:20
  Yeah. I got to ask you.
• 1:30:22
  You were talking just a few minutes ago about this trend of
• 1:30:27
  adult children rejecting their parents.
• 1:30:30
  And I had on Noel marrying on the show.
• 1:30:32
  And she's actually working on a book about this trend where
• 1:30:35
  because of political or ideological differences and
• 1:30:38
  sometimes accusations of childhood neglect or abuse,
• 1:30:41
  which those can be really significant and legitimate.
• 1:30:43
  Of course, parents are increasingly getting iced out by
• 1:30:48
  their children and sometimes vice versa.
• 1:30:49
  But it's mostly the children icing up, icing up the parents.
• 1:30:52
  But I want to ask you, in some cases it's legit.
• 1:30:57
  In some cases you could like, like I, I'm thinking of a case
• 1:31:01
  right now, semi personal, somebody that I know, parent,
• 1:31:05
  single dad involved in really bad stuff, very abusive
• 1:31:10
  behaviors. They are doing a bit of a nice,
• 1:31:12
  they're saying that we got to take a pause on this one because
• 1:31:15
  it's not good for the grandkids. And but somebody might hear of
• 1:31:20
  that story, I don't know, and be like, oh, it's the toxic trend
• 1:31:22
  of, you know, getting rid of your, your, you know, your
• 1:31:24
  sweet, poor old parents who are not perfect, but, you know,
• 1:31:26
  let's just be more nice to them. So how do you draw those lines?
• 1:31:32
  I had a lady e-mail me once and she said I don't appreciate you
• 1:31:37
  talking about how we're writing off our parents.
• 1:31:40
  If you knew some of the things my father did, you'd realize we
• 1:31:44
  should have written him off. And I clarified said I'm not
• 1:31:49
  talking about pathology in these homes.
• 1:31:52
  Like what's an example of that? Abuse, neglect, alcoholism.
• 1:31:55
  Just just just. Serious stuff.
• 1:31:57
  Serious stuff. Well, what is serious stuff?
• 1:32:00
  Well, for the most part, you can make the gauge I'm talking
• 1:32:04
  about, I believe the much more common situation of people who
• 1:32:10
  did their best or, or they weren't easy to live with.
• 1:32:16
  I mean, you can have parents who aren't easy to live with.
• 1:32:18
  You could have a nagging mom. You could have a mom who's put
• 1:32:20
  you down. You could have a lot of these
• 1:32:22
  things. But that is that enough reason
• 1:32:25
  to say, especially if you're a Christian, I want no more.
• 1:32:29
  She's a narcissist. Yeah, all that.
• 1:32:31
  She never has anything. That word to me she's
• 1:32:33
  hypocritical. That that goes up there with
• 1:32:35
  strong willed narcissist is horridly overused.
• 1:32:39
  It basically means self-centered.
• 1:32:40
  Everyone's a narcissist. Everybody's a narcissist.
• 1:32:42
  That's right. And there are like, maybe a lot
• 1:32:43
  of narcissists today too, but. If you read the clinical
• 1:32:47
  definition of narcissist, it's a very serious personality
• 1:32:50
  disorder. A narcissist is not someone who
• 1:32:53
  is difficult for me to get along with.
• 1:32:55
  A narcissist is someone who just can't sustain a relationship
• 1:32:58
  with anybody. OK, but that said, these are
• 1:33:03
  parents who they either tried or they weren't perfect or or even
• 1:33:08
  in fact they were difficult. Does that justify saying get out
• 1:33:15
  of my life? That's the point I'm making.
• 1:33:18
  And here's something I said once on the radio.
• 1:33:23
  I said that parents were worried about being psychologically
• 1:33:29
  incorrect with their children and that affected their
• 1:33:32
  parenting. They were insecure.
• 1:33:34
  They were not sure of themselves.
• 1:33:35
  I said, what has happened now is that that generation that was
• 1:33:39
  raised, the young adults now are turning on their parents and
• 1:33:43
  saying you weren't psychologically correct, so I
• 1:33:48
  want you out of my life. I said.
• 1:33:49
  Boy, did that come back to bite you.
• 1:33:52
  That is, yeah, the modern era where we have psychological
• 1:33:56
  psychologized everything and there's no space for, I think
• 1:34:00
  grace and mistake and everything else.
• 1:34:03
  But but back to something you just said.
• 1:34:05
  They weren't perfect or they were really hard to deal with.
• 1:34:08
  At what point do you make the analysis of, OK, this is
• 1:34:12
  borderline. This is like like there's a 10
• 1:34:15
  list of the narcissist, Like they, you know, everything comes
• 1:34:18
  back to them. They can't ever admit
• 1:34:19
  responsibility. What?
• 1:34:21
  Whatever the list of it, they don't show empathy, right?
• 1:34:23
  They can be hyper charming and then all of a sudden like turn
• 1:34:26
  on you on a dime, but maybe that's more BPD or whatever the
• 1:34:29
  list is right? And you're like, Oh well, check,
• 1:34:31
  check, check, check, check. Oh, sometimes do they go.
• 1:34:33
  To the Internet and it'll tell you.
• 1:34:34
  Well, yeah, but but they're really, you know, they're
• 1:34:36
  they're how do you would you just say at that point you got
• 1:34:40
  to pray about it, talk to a good, you know, Christian
• 1:34:43
  advisor who's not some woke therapist who's going to just
• 1:34:46
  tell you to go burn bridges and, you know, divorce yourself from
• 1:34:50
  your family, etcetera. And then if it's a real serious
• 1:34:53
  issue, yeah, treated like a serious issue.
• 1:34:55
  But generally speaking, we are too much in the direction as a
• 1:34:58
  culture of just pathologizing everything.
• 1:35:01
  It's more common for adults, young adults, or even
• 1:35:05
  middle-aged adults who've written off their parents to do
• 1:35:08
  so because of words. My mom's critical.
• 1:35:14
  My dad's opinionated. They talk politics.
• 1:35:17
  I don't like their politics, yes.
• 1:35:19
  Or they oppose my LGBT steps. Words.
• 1:35:21
  It is words. And because of that, therefore,
• 1:35:25
  I don't want to be around my mother.
• 1:35:26
  I mean, she's so difficult, and she says things and she
• 1:35:29
  critiques my parenting. You know, I've had it.
• 1:35:34
  Is she punching you in the face? Oh, no.
• 1:35:37
  Was she setting fire to your house?
• 1:35:40
  No. What is it then?
• 1:35:41
  My stuff? She says, OK, now I've written
• 1:35:46
  books on this, on how to get along with people.
• 1:35:48
  I was going to ask you about that book, actually, that's
• 1:35:50
  coming right up. Because what we do in
• 1:35:53
  relationships is that I don't like the way you talk.
• 1:35:58
  I don't like the things you say. Lila, you know the most common
• 1:36:02
  question I now get as a psychologist.
• 1:36:04
  What? Would you please tell me how to
• 1:36:07
  make somebody else be different? It is classic.
• 1:36:11
  And then if my mother or my mother, how do I make them not
• 1:36:15
  be like that? And I say, I I have a hard
• 1:36:18
  enough time making you not be like that.
• 1:36:19
  Now you're removing it a person. And that's that's part of the
• 1:36:23
  big reason why these these adults turn on their kids.
• 1:36:27
  I don't like what you say. I don't like how you say it.
• 1:36:29
  I don't like that you put me down.
• 1:36:30
  I don't like your manipulative. I don't like that you're
• 1:36:32
  critical. I don't like that you brag.
• 1:36:34
  I don't like that you disagree with me.
• 1:36:36
  And it's like, you know what, I shouldn't have to put up with
• 1:36:39
  that. And I always say, well, if
• 1:36:41
  you're a Christian, you do have to put up with it.
• 1:36:44
  And secondly, this is not the lady who lives down the street,
• 1:36:46
  6 doors. You could drive by her house and
• 1:36:49
  just go like this. This is your mom.
• 1:36:53
  Only got 1. This is your brother.
• 1:36:56
  This is your father-in-law. This is this.
• 1:36:58
  This is your wife's dad. It behooves you to figure out
• 1:37:03
  how to let some of this stuff go in one ear and out the other,
• 1:37:06
  because they're not going to change.
• 1:37:08
  This book is very special and we have, I have all these notes of
• 1:37:11
  we got to get into this book at least a little bit, if that's
• 1:37:13
  OK. How to deal with difficult
• 1:37:15
  people? Yeah, How to get along with
• 1:37:16
  almost everybody. Notice the key Almost.
• 1:37:19
  Because you can't get along with everybody if if they don't want
• 1:37:22
  to get along with you, no matter what you do, forget it.
• 1:37:27
  It's not going to happen. If your mother says I don't want
• 1:37:30
  to have any part of you, then no matter what you do, no matter
• 1:37:34
  how kind you are, no matter how much you pray for her, no matter
• 1:37:37
  what you do, if she remains rigid, you can't do anything
• 1:37:40
  about it. However, we can go a long way
• 1:37:45
  and getting along better with people.
• 1:37:47
  Now, there's a couple things that are premises in the book.
• 1:37:50
  One look at yourself. I always, I always say, well,
• 1:37:58
  that's. No, it's easier to look at.
• 1:37:59
  Yes, it. Is that's right, I look out this
• 1:38:01
  way. That's a difficult person.
• 1:38:04
  Well, she's difficult. I've never had anybody say, you
• 1:38:08
  know, I think I'm difficult. I think I need to work on me
• 1:38:11
  because I can be difficult. I can be opinionated, I can be
• 1:38:14
  crusty, I can be obnoxious. No.
• 1:38:18
  So we need to start looking at our.
• 1:38:19
  Patient. Exactly.
• 1:38:20
  That's first thing. Second thing is, let's say that
• 1:38:25
  you decide you want to raise your kids a certain way and your
• 1:38:28
  mother-in-law. And by the way, the, the, the
• 1:38:30
  number one point of friction in generations is mother-in-law,
• 1:38:33
  daughter-in-law. That's the most common one, OK.
• 1:38:36
  And your mother-in-law just really doesn't agree with what
• 1:38:38
  you're doing here, Lila. And she's going to she's going
• 1:38:41
  to give me some digs. And you've been married how
• 1:38:44
  long? Seven years.
• 1:38:47
  Well, this is not your mother-in-law, but this is
• 1:38:48
  hypothetical. She's I got, I kind of lucked
• 1:38:50
  out. I mean, she has her own
• 1:38:52
  personality, her own thing, but she's lovely and you know.
• 1:38:54
  She's not. She's always supportive.
• 1:38:56
  You got to use this for the show.
• 1:38:59
  So in this seven years, if you were to count it, she's made 264
• 1:39:04
  snarky remarks about your motherhood and your parenting.
• 1:39:09
  And if I say to you, Lila, does 264 bother you as much as #12
• 1:39:16
  you'd probably say yes. Why is that?
• 1:39:21
  Because the accumulative effect, I'm getting tired of it.
• 1:39:24
  It's building up. Here's one technique on getting
• 1:39:27
  along better with other people. Drop your expectations.
• 1:39:33
  You know she's like this. You got 264 pieces of evidence
• 1:39:37
  that she can do this. Chances are she's probably going
• 1:39:40
  to do another 264 the next seven years.
• 1:39:43
  So if you keep upsetting yourself over these snarky
• 1:39:46
  remarks instead of saying to yourself, and that's her, that's
• 1:39:50
  what she does. Not very nice about it and she's
• 1:39:53
  got to be unhappy in her own skin.
• 1:39:54
  But OK, I'm not going to be as upset because this is nothing
• 1:39:59
  new. This is the same old same old.
• 1:40:04
  Why am I distressing myself at 264 like I did at 77?
• 1:40:10
  May still have been well. I hope she changes 264.
• 1:40:14
  Not likely. That sounds like such a obvious
• 1:40:19
  good principle. If something's annoying you and
• 1:40:22
  but this is a person that you're not going to like, ice out.
• 1:40:25
  You just accept it and you put your attention and focus
• 1:40:28
  elsewhere and you just learn. You get a thicker skin,
• 1:40:30
  basically. However, I think about in a
• 1:40:34
  marriage as an example, maybe this is a little different.
• 1:40:37
  You want to be able to share vulnerably.
• 1:40:39
  Oh, this is affecting me this way.
• 1:40:41
  You want to create as much harmony as possible.
• 1:40:44
  You want to be authentic and not pretend like something's not a
• 1:40:46
  big deal when it does feel like a big deal to you, right?
• 1:40:49
  So how do you weigh all that? We're not saying you don't bring
• 1:40:52
  it up. We're not saying you don't talk
• 1:40:54
  about it. And it may have been through
• 1:40:56
  snark remark #1 through 12. You did try to say something to
• 1:41:00
  your mother-in-law and you got nowhere.
• 1:41:02
  Because rarely are people going to go.
• 1:41:06
  Lila, you're right. I do do that, don't I?
• 1:41:10
  Well, I need to control myself better for the sake of our
• 1:41:13
  relationship. A difficult person doesn't know
• 1:41:16
  they're difficult. If they knew they were
• 1:41:18
  difficult, they wouldn't be as difficult.
• 1:41:20
  So that's the first thing. Second thing in a marriage, the
• 1:41:24
  closer you are to somebody, the more time you spend around them,
• 1:41:27
  the more likely things are going to happen that irritates you,
• 1:41:30
  that bothers you. Wives will say to me, my
• 1:41:34
  husband's so critical. He's just critical and I've told
• 1:41:37
  him how I feel, how it hurts and how it bothers me, but he
• 1:41:41
  doesn't seem to care. He just kind of does it.
• 1:41:45
  I'll say, well, we've got a couple things here.
• 1:41:47
  One, if he's not going to stop and obviously you don't want to
• 1:41:51
  leave the relationship because there's a lot there that's of
• 1:41:54
  value, then you're going to have to let his critical words start
• 1:41:58
  to bounce off of you and you're going to have to interpret them
• 1:42:01
  as he's insecure. He's not superior.
• 1:42:07
  Anybody that felt self confident wouldn't wouldn't have to put me
• 1:42:10
  down like that. Obviously because he doesn't
• 1:42:13
  apologize ever. That's insecurity.
• 1:42:16
  That's not superiority. He doesn't think he's better
• 1:42:19
  than me. He's afraid to apologize.
• 1:42:22
  You got to start to reinterpret. What they're doing, I think in
• 1:42:25
  that case, you know, I'm playing with that one for a minute
• 1:42:27
  because I've heard these cases. It's like, OK, no, that's
• 1:42:29
  emotional abuse. That's emotional abuse.
• 1:42:31
  And maybe I should leave this marriage.
• 1:42:34
  You know, maybe I won't remarry because of my faith.
• 1:42:37
  But I, you know, this is like, this is like, at what point is
• 1:42:40
  it? This is a difficult person.
• 1:42:42
  And this is by the way, this is the modern crisis, right?
• 1:42:44
  You know, you you've sat in the chair and you've heard all the
• 1:42:46
  stories. What people thought was normal
• 1:42:50
  behavior 30 years ago, even. Oh, they're just a difficult
• 1:42:53
  person. That's the way they are.
• 1:42:54
  Ha, ha. That's something.
• 1:42:55
  All right. We love them anyway.
• 1:42:56
  Now they're like, oh, they are. Yeah.
• 1:42:58
  The narcissist. They are the gaslighter.
• 1:43:00
  Whatever. They're abusive and some people
• 1:43:05
  are blowing up their lives over that.
• 1:43:06
  They're leaving their marriages, you know, they're icing out
• 1:43:10
  their parents in some cases. One of the early chapters of
• 1:43:14
  that book said watch your language, and I picked out three
• 1:43:19
  words that can make you leave a relationship prematurely.
• 1:43:25
  Narcissist. But But this this is is it it.
• 1:43:31
  they are just so flawed that I can't get along with them toxic
• 1:43:36
  it's a terrible word it's poisonous I mean I could see
• 1:43:40
  that he's obnoxious or difficult unpleasant toxic Oh my gosh that
• 1:43:46
  the implication there once again is he he is hurting me terribly
• 1:43:51
  but here's where I got in trouble on the radio once lady
• 1:43:55
  called in and said I'm tired of being emotionally abused by my
• 1:43:58
  husband What does he do? She told me.
• 1:44:02
  I said, yeah, it sounds pretty nasty.
• 1:44:04
  I said, but you understand that you have great control over
• 1:44:09
  whether it's emotional abuse or not because it has to get to
• 1:44:15
  you. You have to interpret it a
• 1:44:17
  certain way. He shouldn't do this.
• 1:44:22
  I don't do that to him. He's putting me down.
• 1:44:27
  I didn't ask for this in a husband.
• 1:44:30
  I deserve a better marriage now. All of those things may be true,
• 1:44:33
  but if you absorb them, you're going to feel abused.
• 1:44:37
  I said the word abuse used to be pretty serious, physically
• 1:44:41
  sexual. Once we moved it into emotional
• 1:44:44
  territory. Now it's fuzzy.
• 1:44:47
  Now it's fuzzy for you for you to emotionally abuse me, Lila,
• 1:44:52
  in some respects, I have to let you.
• 1:44:55
  You can say whatever you want about me anytime, anywhere.
• 1:44:59
  You can go public with it. But my only concern is, is what
• 1:45:04
  she said true? If it's not, if I use my best
• 1:45:08
  judgement, say it's not true what she accused me of, then I
• 1:45:12
  don't have to be emotionally abused.
• 1:45:14
  I can be hurt. I can wish you didn't say it.
• 1:45:17
  I can feel bad. But to take it into emotional
• 1:45:22
  abuse gives me a rationale. I don't want to be married to
• 1:45:27
  her. I don't want to be around my
• 1:45:29
  brother anymore. I don't want to be part of this
• 1:45:33
  relationship. I don't want to go to that
• 1:45:34
  church because I think that priest is emotionally abusive.
• 1:45:37
  When he says stuff from the pulpit, that's what happens.
• 1:45:42
  Is there ever such a thing in your view then, as emotional
• 1:45:46
  abuse in marriage, that that would mean that there should be
• 1:45:50
  a separation? There can certainly be
• 1:45:53
  viciousness. I mean, I'm not.
• 1:45:54
  I'm not. I mean, I see all kinds of
• 1:45:56
  nonsense in marriages. But here's an interesting
• 1:45:59
  statistic. The majority of marriages break
• 1:46:03
  up not because there's pathology or actual abuse.
• 1:46:08
  It's because I really don't like you anymore, right?
• 1:46:11
  And it's true. I don't want to be around you
• 1:46:13
  anymore. You're unpleasant.
• 1:46:16
  We. Fell.
• 1:46:16
  We fell out of love. We fell out of love.
• 1:46:18
  That's the number one reason. So I suppose you could make a
• 1:46:21
  case that somebody can be so nasty, so vicious in their
• 1:46:26
  remarks that you're saying to yourself, I, I can't, I can't
• 1:46:31
  live with this, I suppose. But my point is, what is now
• 1:46:36
  covered under the umbrella of emotional abuse is often times
• 1:46:40
  just nasty stuff that we absorb and it gets to us.
• 1:46:45
  You know, people say, you know, what my mother said really hurt
• 1:46:48
  me? And I'll say, how did it do
• 1:46:51
  that? Well, mothers are not supposed
• 1:46:54
  to say those kinds of things to their daughter.
• 1:46:56
  I go, well, your mother did. Yeah, but she's not supposed to.
• 1:47:00
  Yeah, I I agree. She's not supposed to, but she
• 1:47:02
  did. So how much are you going to be
• 1:47:05
  hurt by it? Another.
• 1:47:06
  We we we don't control our own reaction.
• 1:47:09
  You're in the public sphere somewhat.
• 1:47:12
  I'm in the public sphere. Have you got nasty emails?
• 1:47:16
  Oh, we get so much yes, exactly. Oh, so much hate, right.
• 1:47:21
  A lot, lot more love, a lot more love, but there's a lot of.
• 1:47:24
  Nasty stuff. Now, do you go home and cry
• 1:47:28
  yourself to sleep? No.
• 1:47:30
  Right. Because you don't allow it to be
• 1:47:32
  absorbed. Now, one could say, yeah, but
• 1:47:35
  those are strangers. This is my It's not my mother.
• 1:47:38
  It's not my brother. That's true.
• 1:47:40
  But there's still a parallel there because you're still
• 1:47:43
  controlling how upset you're going to be.
• 1:47:46
  I've seen people get out of this.
• 1:47:48
  I've seen people get out of this business because they can't take
• 1:47:50
  those. They can't take those.
• 1:47:51
  And to be clear, they're sometimes if it's especially
• 1:47:55
  personal nasty and it's coming more from friendly fire because
• 1:47:59
  that sometimes happens, right? That can hurt a little bit,
• 1:48:02
  especially if it's someone that you know that you think would be
• 1:48:05
  your friend. And so that's where it's closer
• 1:48:07
  to your. Expectation.
• 1:48:08
  See, I expect they wouldn't do this.
• 1:48:10
  Right, right. Yeah, I expect this from my
• 1:48:13
  mother because she's made 264 snarky remarks.
• 1:48:16
  So my expectation should be down here.
• 1:48:18
  It shouldn't be up here. Or I expect you'll be as kind as
• 1:48:20
  I am. There it is.
• 1:48:21
  I don't do that to you. I call it the law of social
• 1:48:24
  reciprocity. If I teach you a certain way,
• 1:48:28
  you should treat me a certain way.
• 1:48:29
  It's kind of a, it's kind of a perversion of the Golden Rule.
• 1:48:34
  If I do to you well, then you do to me well, that ain't, that's
• 1:48:39
  not a Christian rule. I'm I'm obliged to do to you
• 1:48:43
  well, no matter how you do to me.
• 1:48:45
  And it's like our Lord says, even the Gentiles are kind to
• 1:48:47
  their children, right? But if you are a Christian, how
• 1:48:50
  much more are you supposed to be kind to not just your brother,
• 1:48:53
  but the stranger and your enemy? I'll share with you an
• 1:48:55
  objection. I get to something that you
• 1:48:57
  said. You said, OK, you got to get
• 1:48:59
  better at letting some of this stuff go past you.
• 1:49:02
  You do. But then the objection is this
• 1:49:06
  isn't that making you a doormat? Don't you just, aren't you just
• 1:49:10
  kind of like sitting there taking the punches against the
• 1:49:13
  against the ropes? I said no, no, no, It's
• 1:49:15
  different. You're a doormat if it gets to
• 1:49:19
  you because they control your emotions.
• 1:49:22
  You're not a doormat if it doesn't get to you.
• 1:49:24
  I'm not talking about swallowing it and being bitter and
• 1:49:28
  resentful. I'm talking about not swallowing
• 1:49:30
  it. If you don't swallow it, they
• 1:49:33
  don't have any power over you. Lila, we leave this interview
• 1:49:37
  and I find out later, you say Grandy's a jerk.
• 1:49:40
  Grandy's. That's the last time I'm ever
• 1:49:42
  going to talk to that dude. Now OK, I can say, well I
• 1:49:47
  suppose maybe I wasn't the best interview, but.
• 1:49:50
  All right, I thought it was pretty funny.
• 1:49:52
  I'm going to go drive through McDonald's.
• 1:49:53
  Give me a double cheeseburger. I just said, you know, I'm going
• 1:49:55
  to move on with my life because I can't absorb it.
• 1:49:58
  I have to say, well, is it true? And even if it is, even if it
• 1:50:02
  is, even if I blew the interview, OK, I didn't mean to
• 1:50:06
  blow the interview. It just kind of came from
• 1:50:09
  clumsiness and and that kind of interpretation of these human
• 1:50:13
  relations can really temper this kind of, I can't get along with
• 1:50:18
  you. All right, I got to, I got to
• 1:50:20
  ask though, because I, I'm, I'm just hearing the voices in my
• 1:50:24
  head of the people in the comments.
• 1:50:26
  Section right now. Psychologist Don't tell me
• 1:50:27
  you're hearing voices. Sometimes, sometimes, you know,
• 1:50:30
  but these are my comments section voices and, and I care
• 1:50:33
  about my comments section very much.
• 1:50:35
  You know, you guys, I care about that comment section.
• 1:50:36
  So thank you for the comments that people leave.
• 1:50:38
  But I'm thinking about, and I know these cases.
• 1:50:40
  I know I have people that I know in my life that I love very much
• 1:50:43
  and they're, they've been in some of these cases.
• 1:50:45
  I'm talking about emotional abuse now in marriage is what I
• 1:50:48
  want to get granular to. And what I've observed is often
• 1:50:52
  if there is emotional abuse in terms of just like viciousness,
• 1:50:56
  right? And to your point, well, you can
• 1:50:58
  choose to allow it abuse you or not, but there's often something
• 1:51:01
  in addition chronic infidelity. Now you're talking pathology.
• 1:51:04
  Now. Now you're drifting into.
• 1:51:06
  Pathology. So the the viciousness is then
• 1:51:08
  connected to something more serious and then it's different.
• 1:51:12
  But you're saying if there's just viciousness and let's say
• 1:51:15
  it's a bad habit of viciousness, like it is regular bad habit A.
• 1:51:18
  Strong word you know a lot of people listening to this go
• 1:51:20
  viciousness is enough. Maybe we we could say critical
• 1:51:26
  or put down issue let's. Just say they're actually
• 1:51:28
  vicious. They're not cheating.
• 1:51:29
  To their knowledge, there's no other pathology that they can
• 1:51:31
  see. They're not.
• 1:51:32
  Physically or sexually, you're a waste of a wife, and I think
• 1:51:34
  every one of our kids is going to grow up polluted because of
• 1:51:37
  you and what you did to them. That's pretty rough.
• 1:51:39
  Yeah. And so would you say in a case
• 1:51:41
  like that and, and again, often that's kind of being fueled by
• 1:51:45
  alcoholism sometimes or other things.
• 1:51:46
  So it's like there's always going to be a comorbidity, I
• 1:51:48
  think. But let's just say theoretically
• 1:51:50
  there's no comorbidity because if they're an alcoholic, then
• 1:51:53
  maybe you knew need to separate if they're getting dangerous,
• 1:51:55
  right? But but if they're just vicious
• 1:51:58
  regularly and it's like a thing and they, I'm thinking about one
• 1:52:01
  case in particular right now and there's just, there's no
• 1:52:03
  infidelity, there's no alcoholism, there's no
• 1:52:06
  addiction, there's no neglect of the children or something like
• 1:52:08
  this, but there's just chronic viciousness.
• 1:52:11
  You got several factors at play. One is the person a Catholic?
• 1:52:16
  So the Catholic would say that that marriage is indissoluble
• 1:52:20
  until they take a look at it back at the beginning.
• 1:52:22
  So that's one. All right.
• 1:52:23
  So that at this point, that kind of verbal cruelty might not be a
• 1:52:29
  reason to separate this marriage.
• 1:52:31
  OK, That's one big one. The children, OK, if you
• 1:52:37
  separate. And I can't tell you how much I
• 1:52:39
  see this in the office. I've lost control on how my kids
• 1:52:44
  are being raised. The other part of the time
• 1:52:47
  they're over there and that person doesn't take them to
• 1:52:49
  church. That person lets them watch
• 1:52:50
  anything. That person is now with a
• 1:52:51
  girlfriend who has two other kids and those two other kids
• 1:52:54
  are obnoxious. And I worry about my kids
• 1:52:56
  safety, not to mention their sexual safety.
• 1:52:58
  There's a factor there. So you weigh that.
• 1:53:01
  You say, OK, this is this is rough on me, but the alternative
• 1:53:07
  maybe even rougher. There was a survey done years
• 1:53:09
  ago and what they did is they asked people, are you discontent
• 1:53:15
  in your marriage? Are you unhappy in your
• 1:53:17
  marriage? Yes, yes, very much so.
• 1:53:21
  And they followed up those who stayed in the marriage anyway
• 1:53:24
  and those who divorced. And they asked him five years
• 1:53:27
  later, are you more content now or less?
• 1:53:33
  The ones who stayed in the marriage generally said things
• 1:53:36
  got better. The ones who didn't said it's as
• 1:53:41
  bad or worse because of the complications of the divorce.
• 1:53:48
  There is no part of psychology that has more research support
• 1:53:52
  that says divorce is bad for kids.
• 1:53:56
  None. Thousands of studies.
• 1:53:59
  Now Again, I know there are people listening to this go but
• 1:54:01
  you don't understand. My spouse left me.
• 1:54:03
  I didn't want the divorce. My spouse left me.
• 1:54:06
  That's true. That's tragic.
• 1:54:07
  And there's some very heroic single parents out there.
• 1:54:10
  No question about that. No question.
• 1:54:13
  Absolutely. They're victims.
• 1:54:15
  Men and women one of the. Saddest things I see in my
• 1:54:17
  office, a guy will be sitting there and he converted to
• 1:54:20
  Catholicism for his wife's sake. Now they have 5 kids, he's
• 1:54:24
  leaving, he met somebody at work, he's leaving and he says,
• 1:54:30
  I never bought into this Catholic thing anyway.
• 1:54:33
  I just kind of did it and went along and went through the
• 1:54:36
  motions. She's broken hearted and I say
• 1:54:39
  to him I I can't stop him because he has no moral
• 1:54:41
  compunction about this. But I said you kind of
• 1:54:44
  understand what you're opening up.
• 1:54:47
  Your daughter, how old is she, 15?
• 1:54:50
  She talking to you? No, no, she thinks I ruined my
• 1:54:53
  family. OK, how about your 12 year old
• 1:54:57
  son? He doesn't like my he doesn't
• 1:55:00
  like my girlfriend at all. I mean, he didn't even want to
• 1:55:02
  come here. He finds every excuse to come
• 1:55:03
  here. OK, so in other words, I point
• 1:55:07
  out to him, Now you see what you're doing jumping into this?
• 1:55:09
  This isn't just I'm unhappy with my wife.
• 1:55:12
  This is there's all kinds of complications I can't foresee.
• 1:55:16
  Happens a lot. Yeah, Divorce also, I think is a
• 1:55:20
  social contagion. That's my observation.
• 1:55:23
  When people are close to other people that get divorced, it
• 1:55:27
  normalizes it more and then they start to nitpick and it's more
• 1:55:30
  like that. Yes, exactly.
• 1:55:33
  I had 6 pairs of Italian aunts and uncles.
• 1:55:37
  Amazing all of them. Their marriage ended when one of
• 1:55:41
  them died. As I looked at the marriages,
• 1:55:44
  they weren't necessarily the best.
• 1:55:46
  Some of them one particular would be looked at like whoa.
• 1:55:50
  If that was nowadays, that marriage would have been long
• 1:55:52
  over. But every single one of them
• 1:55:55
  endured to death, and every single one of them was sad when
• 1:55:59
  their partner died. Oh man, you know what the
• 1:56:03
  divorce rate was in 1960? Tell me. 5% wow 5% have people
• 1:56:09
  changed that much? Have you have you basically said
• 1:56:12
  no in 1960 people were just a lot nicer.
• 1:56:15
  Maybe the culture was a little more moral, but but the human
• 1:56:18
  nature doesn't change. And I think it's just, you say
• 1:56:20
  it's just been this whole cultural shift of you don't have
• 1:56:24
  to put up with that. And I think people then share
• 1:56:29
  the stories, like on social media or they write books or
• 1:56:33
  they just tell their friends that you don't have to put up
• 1:56:35
  with that. And then they say, and then
• 1:56:37
  there's a glamorization process. I've seen this about how happy I
• 1:56:40
  am now that I'm free and unencumbered.
• 1:56:44
  And I think a lot of people will be for. 2nd marriages Lila, do
• 1:56:46
  you know the divorce rate? Tell me.
• 1:56:48
  The divorce rate first is about 40%, and that's because it's,
• 1:56:52
  people usually say 50. It's not 50.
• 1:56:54
  It's because there's second marriages that are.
• 1:56:56
  The divorce rate for second marriages is 66%.
• 1:57:00
  Why? Well, in some cases it's because
• 1:57:02
  I was so difficult to live with. I thought you were the difficult
• 1:57:05
  one. I'm taking me into the next
• 1:57:06
  marriage. Make it work.
• 1:57:11
  Do you find yourself surprised by the kinds of calls that you
• 1:57:15
  get now? Letters that you get now, the
• 1:57:17
  kinds of patients effectively that you get now versus 20-30
• 1:57:21
  years ago, what has changed? Changed radically.
• 1:57:24
  First of all, I get a lot more questions of my kids gender
• 1:57:27
  identity confusion. 30 years ago I didn't get any.
• 1:57:31
  Oh gosh, now I get it all the time.
• 1:57:34
  So sick. Grandparents will call me and
• 1:57:36
  say my daughter, my granddaughter, she's 13 and she
• 1:57:40
  knows she's a boy. All of this and they don't
• 1:57:42
  explore it. They just assume that that's the
• 1:57:44
  way it is. So there is some sign that the
• 1:57:47
  the transgender movement is dropped.
• 1:57:50
  Yeah, if you've seen those statistics, but they it's.
• 1:57:52
  All the D transitioners, we have them on the show all the time.
• 1:57:54
  They're amazing, but they're like, what the hell?
• 1:57:56
  Nobody stopped. Me like what the hell?
• 1:57:58
  I mean I was mastectomied. I mean, you cut my breasts off,
• 1:58:01
  you jacked me up. You, you, you ruined my life.
• 1:58:05
  And it was a social contagion. Or I was sexually abused as a
• 1:58:08
  kid or I just was bullied. I or I just had it.
• 1:58:11
  I just a little more feminine. Or the fact that I was confused
• 1:58:14
  about a whole lot of things. Right.
• 1:58:16
  Exactly. So that's a big one.
• 1:58:17
  The one we talked about, which is I'm separated from my adult
• 1:58:20
  kids. I don't see my grandkids.
• 1:58:22
  They will not let me see my grandkids.
• 1:58:24
  That's a big one. That's happened a lot.
• 1:58:28
  ADHD has exploded. And I think that in part that's
• 1:58:32
  been because we tend to look at the child and say something's
• 1:58:35
  wrong with that kid. The medication has exploded for
• 1:58:40
  kids. Those are the three things.
• 1:58:43
  Has anything gotten better? I think as anything else, as
• 1:58:50
  what we try doesn't work, reality always wins.
• 1:58:53
  The problem is, are we going to let reality win?
• 1:58:56
  We have the ability to challenge reality as humans.
• 1:59:00
  And no matter how many facts and no matter how much reality
• 1:59:02
  smacks us in the face, we can still say no, no, no, I'm going
• 1:59:06
  to do it my way. I'm going to do it that way.
• 1:59:07
  And I think what has gotten better, there's been a number of
• 1:59:10
  parents percentage wise who have said, you know what, this
• 1:59:13
  smartphone's a bad idea. Research coming out all over the
• 1:59:17
  place. This is a bad idea to give it to
• 1:59:19
  a 12 year old. That's 1-2 more parents are
• 1:59:23
  saying, I realize now I'm countercultural because I'm
• 1:59:26
  Christian or because I'm Catholic.
• 1:59:28
  I realize that now. I realize I can't have one foot
• 1:59:31
  in the world and 1 foot in my house.
• 1:59:34
  Yes, I, I live in the world. That's true.
• 1:59:38
  Not going to be a separatist, but at the same time I got to
• 1:59:41
  realize the world doesn't think like me.
• 1:59:43
  That's that's been a big factor. I've got more of them and
• 1:59:46
  basically not being culturally bullied.
• 1:59:50
  That's it, Yeah, it. We are living in a culture of
• 1:59:53
  ideological bullying and it's very, very tragic.
• 1:59:57
  But if there's an opportunity now to be countercultural and
• 2:00:00
  change that, we can. We can change that.
• 2:00:02
  And I do think it is changing. I do see a lot of that.
• 2:00:04
  I got to just ask you one more thing about there's so many
• 2:00:06
  things to talk, and I thank you. This has been this is so amazing
• 2:00:10
  you. Seem smarter already?
• 2:00:11
  I'm a little bit smarter. IQ tester Right now it's going
• 2:00:13
  to be about 10 points. I hope so, yes.
• 2:00:15
  I mean, it might drop down tomorrow, but that's because.
• 2:00:18
  You're by the kids. They always do that.
• 2:00:20
  They suck off IQ points like crazy.
• 2:00:23
  That's legit. That's, I think that's
• 2:00:25
  objectively true, actually between the sleeplessness and
• 2:00:27
  whatever else is going on, just sheltering children.
• 2:00:31
  And I, I'm, you guys know, listening to the show IA lot of
• 2:00:34
  these times I'm the one benefiting from the conversation
• 2:00:37
  directly. So I'm asking this question for
• 2:00:39
  our audience, listening and masking him for myself too.
• 2:00:41
  But you talked a lot about, I think use the word children that
• 2:00:44
  are worldly children that are exposed.
• 2:00:46
  And you know, you just mentioned the 12 year old and yeah, your
• 2:00:48
  12 year old does not need an iPhone.
• 2:00:50
  Do not let her have social media.
• 2:00:52
  That's an easy one in my view. But how much do you recommend
• 2:00:55
  sheltering kids? That is an accusation thrown at
• 2:00:59
  religious parents and homeschoolers.
• 2:01:02
  You can't protect them forever. That's a real world out there.
• 2:01:06
  They're going to be exposed to it, and when they're finally
• 2:01:09
  exposed to it, they're going to run like wild dogs.
• 2:01:11
  Now you know that that's the accusation, the socialization
• 2:01:16
  question for homeschoolers. What about their socialization?
• 2:01:20
  All right, let me answer this. You're not protecting them
• 2:01:23
  forever. You're slowing the pace.
• 2:01:26
  You're letting them be children longer.
• 2:01:29
  When my dad grew up or even his father grew up, that they were
• 2:01:33
  more innocent. My mom was innocent until her
• 2:01:36
  1516 years of age. She was just innocent.
• 2:01:39
  All right, And you said that's bad.
• 2:01:41
  OK, so maybe she didn't get some dirty jokes, but in fact the
• 2:01:46
  average 10 year old nowadays is much more worldly than a 14 year
• 2:01:50
  old two generations ago. So sad.
• 2:01:52
  You're protecting them longer. I want to give them a longer
• 2:01:56
  childhood. I'm going to do what I can to
• 2:01:58
  keep away these influences through the media, through the
• 2:02:02
  phone, through the Internet, all of it.
• 2:02:05
  OK, that's not hyper protection, but parents hear that you're
• 2:02:10
  going to screw your kid up. You know that, don't you?
• 2:02:12
  Because one day they're going to realize you did that to them.
• 2:02:16
  OK, so that's one. Another one is Bill Bennett was
• 2:02:20
  asked at a homeschooling conference, what about their
• 2:02:24
  socialization? And Bennett said socialization
• 2:02:29
  to what? What kind of socialization you
• 2:02:32
  talking about? For example, my kids were
• 2:02:35
  homeschooled. Now my wife and I are the
• 2:02:40
  primary educators. We're the ones to teach them
• 2:02:43
  socialization, not a group of 24 year old other third or 24 other
• 2:02:49
  third graders. And their 30 year old teacher.
• 2:02:52
  Yes, that isn't necessary in in most of human history.
• 2:02:56
  That's not how socialization took place.
• 2:02:59
  OK. Public education is a relatively
• 2:03:01
  new phenomenon. So what are we going to say that
• 2:03:04
  for all of human history, nobody got socialized because they
• 2:03:07
  weren't in a third grade class with 20 other kids?
• 2:03:10
  What is this? And there's research that says,
• 2:03:13
  and this is, this is a surprise to a lot of people.
• 2:03:16
  Homeschoolers generally are better socialized.
• 2:03:20
  They get along with a wider range of peers.
• 2:03:23
  That's 1-2. They're comfortable around
• 2:03:27
  adults all right? They don't.
• 2:03:28
  They don't follow the peer rules. 2 of my kids went to
• 2:03:33
  private school before we homeschooled them and my son in
• 2:03:36
  the second grade already started to not want his mother to hold
• 2:03:41
  his hand on the way to school already because that was a peer
• 2:03:45
  rule. That's so.
• 2:03:47
  Sad. Once we homeschooled him, all of
• 2:03:48
  a sudden his mom became his best buddy, and he didn't know the
• 2:03:50
  rules. Well, you hold your mother's
• 2:03:52
  hand. That's cool.
• 2:03:53
  That's dad. That's cool.
• 2:03:54
  Your dad kisses you. Oh, yeah.
• 2:03:56
  My dad kisses me. He's my dad.
• 2:03:58
  But already he was being socialized differently to that.
• 2:04:02
  And that was one of the reasons why I said, OK, that's enough.
• 2:04:05
  That's why if you're going to do school, which there's some
• 2:04:08
  schools that can be phenomenal, you got to do it really
• 2:04:10
  intentionally. And that's hard for some parents
• 2:04:13
  because they don't have access to, you know, the little
• 2:04:16
  classical Catholic school. They're, they're looking around
• 2:04:19
  and they're saying there's the public school and then I want to
• 2:04:22
  maybe homeschool. But we're A2, we, we can't
• 2:04:24
  afford to live without both of us working.
• 2:04:27
  And they're in a bind. It's not like the old days of
• 2:04:29
  homeschooling when mom had to do it all herself or dad had to do
• 2:04:32
  it. Now there's co-ops, now there
• 2:04:35
  are is online learning that if so, if mom can be home a couple
• 2:04:38
  days a week and she can make other arrangements, that can
• 2:04:40
  happen. There's all kinds of options for
• 2:04:43
  home schooling. But that said, if your child is
• 2:04:46
  in this public school setting that you're wary about, you got
• 2:04:50
  to be vigilant. You got to know what the sex Ed
• 2:04:52
  is. You got to know who he's hanging
• 2:04:54
  with. You got to be more vigilant than
• 2:04:57
  you otherwise would have had to be if this was a farm in 1880 in
• 2:05:01
  Illinois. Yes, yeah.
• 2:05:03
  I mean, I think the good a good rule of thumb is to avoid public
• 2:05:06
  school. I know that's not possible for
• 2:05:08
  everybody and some public schools are better than others.
• 2:05:10
  So of course there's going to be nuance in there.
• 2:05:13
  Do you have a rule of thumb for school?
• 2:05:15
  A rule of thumb for college, if your kid wants to just have the
• 2:05:19
  college experience. In other words, he doesn't need
• 2:05:22
  a technical degree. This is not something that he
• 2:05:24
  definitely has to be trained in that he's going just to get a
• 2:05:27
  bachelor's in something. Couple of things, one good
• 2:05:32
  chance he'll come out with big loans. 50 to 85% chance he'll
• 2:05:37
  lose his faith. Wow, 350% of kids after they
• 2:05:42
  graduate in a a Bachelor of Arts degree of some type do not work
• 2:05:46
  in the field that field and 10 years later the majority are not
• 2:05:50
  working in that field. That that English degree didn't
• 2:05:52
  really do much. So as a result, what happened
• 2:05:55
  was it was a lose, lose, lose. I advise parents college close
• 2:06:00
  to home, maybe at least the first year or two you can live
• 2:06:02
  at home. Community College.
• 2:06:04
  So great trade. Schools, Oh my gosh, I got a
• 2:06:07
  couple of kids. I got a couple of kids who
• 2:06:09
  really struggle through high school.
• 2:06:11
  Both of them are making upwards of 100 KA year because they got
• 2:06:16
  into trades that they learned. Oh yeah, a lot of kids aren't
• 2:06:22
  going to college and they're getting into either trades or
• 2:06:25
  they're getting into their own businesses.
• 2:06:27
  I, I tease. And they're doing great.
• 2:06:28
  I tease my engineer, Sonny, as a degree in engineering, I said.
• 2:06:31
  Andrew said. You big dummy, you went all
• 2:06:34
  those years of education, you're not making as much as your
• 2:06:37
  brother. Little sibling rivalry in there.
• 2:06:41
  All right, this has been so amazing.
• 2:06:43
  Can you give us to help close this out?
• 2:06:45
  And then I want to ask you how people can find all your amazing
• 2:06:48
  work. What's a, is there a success
• 2:06:51
  story you can share? Maybe one of your favorite
• 2:06:53
  recent success stories of where you saw transformation or
• 2:06:57
  positive growth in a family because they started to deploy
• 2:07:02
  some of these the some of this advice and some of this
• 2:07:04
  worldview because it's not just tactics you're giving, it's
• 2:07:06
  really worldview. I can only tell you what people
• 2:07:09
  tell me, and it's one of the benefits of being at this
• 2:07:12
  business a long time. I'm surprised when I do a
• 2:07:16
  conference or something like that, parents will come up to me
• 2:07:19
  and say, you know, I started listening to you 20 years ago
• 2:07:23
  and I got to thank you because what you said, I applied and it
• 2:07:27
  turned my family around and I was shocked.
• 2:07:30
  I just said, wow, so I'll appreciate that.
• 2:07:33
  And I said, did you buy a book? No.
• 2:07:34
  Well, then the heck with you. So that I hear a lot of that.
• 2:07:38
  And I'm, I'm grateful for that. And I get emails.
• 2:07:40
  I get a lot of emails. Matter of fact, that's one of
• 2:07:42
  the reasons why I stayed in Catholic media.
• 2:07:44
  Initially, I didn't want to be in Catholic media because I
• 2:07:47
  didn't want to be tied to a microphone.
• 2:07:50
  I tried it for six months at my wife's behest, and I saw the
• 2:07:55
  emails. I'm coming back to the church.
• 2:07:58
  I feel more confident as a parent.
• 2:08:00
  My marriage has turned a corner. And then I realized, wow, well,
• 2:08:05
  I better stick with what I'm doing because I can't just tell
• 2:08:08
  God. Well, you know, you showed me
• 2:08:10
  that some of these people benefit from this, but I'm busy,
• 2:08:13
  you know what I mean? I got.
• 2:08:14
  Oh, yeah. Oprah.
• 2:08:15
  Yeah. Oprah's calling.
• 2:08:16
  Oprah's calling. Are you hopeful for the future?
• 2:08:20
  I am hopeful. For families and and kids.
• 2:08:24
  People ask me that all the time. Do I think there's going to be a
• 2:08:27
  reversal? Blunt?
• 2:08:32
  No, But I do think that there are going to be increasing
• 2:08:37
  numbers of people who say the way we've been told to do it,
• 2:08:42
  the way we've been doing it for our families and our marriages
• 2:08:45
  and religion isn't working. And increasing numbers of people
• 2:08:49
  are going to say, we got to have other options here that square
• 2:08:53
  more with reality. And if you look at the numbers,
• 2:08:57
  there's brush fires, brush fires everywhere.
• 2:09:00
  For example, the young men who are coming into the church, you
• 2:09:02
  know that, Lila, you've seen those statistics.
• 2:09:04
  Young men are doubling their numbers coming into the church.
• 2:09:07
  How'd this happen in Britain? The Catholic Church is now the
• 2:09:11
  number one religion in Britain. It has surpassed Anglicanism.
• 2:09:14
  So how's this happening? People are realizing that way
• 2:09:17
  doesn't work real well. I see kids who go back to their
• 2:09:21
  parents and say, mom, I've been so wrong.
• 2:09:23
  I should have never done that. You and Dad, you and dad did so
• 2:09:27
  much more for me and I was a 28 year old brat.
• 2:09:31
  I do see that, see a lot of that.
• 2:09:34
  So that's the encouraging part of this.
• 2:09:35
  But I will say this, Lila, the key is doing this.
• 2:09:39
  The key is prayer for your best judgement to make the decision
• 2:09:45
  knowing it might not work out. That's just the way it is.
• 2:09:50
  People will say, well, we'll find out if it was the right
• 2:09:53
  decision, how it worked out. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
• 2:09:57
  The right decision is the right decision.
• 2:09:59
  It may blow up in your face, but it was still the right decision.
• 2:10:04
  That's what I tell parents. And we're children of God and he
• 2:10:08
  loves us unconditionally. So there's the the root identity
• 2:10:11
  that all the storms of life. That's real self identity, isn't
• 2:10:14
  it? That's real.
• 2:10:15
  The true self identity. Doctor Ray Garandy, this has
• 2:10:18
  been amazing. How can people find you?
• 2:10:20
  My websitesdoctorray.com DRRAY dot.
• 2:10:23
  PZ. And all the books are there,
• 2:10:25
  signed, autographed. What book should people start
• 2:10:29
  with? Do you have a recommendation if
• 2:10:30
  you're a? Parent, the one I'm going to
• 2:10:32
  give you, discipline that lasts a lifetime.
• 2:10:34
  Love it. That is the most common
• 2:10:36
  discipline questions I get asked and I deal with all the things
• 2:10:39
  we talked about, parental confidence, blackouts, blackouts
• 2:10:41
  in there, blackouts in there, all of that.
• 2:10:44
  So that one. 2. Books that I think for adults,
• 2:10:49
  one is called thinking like Jesus, the psychology of a
• 2:10:51
  faithful disciple. The other one is Jesus the
• 2:10:54
  master psychologist and I talk about our Lord's prescriptions
• 2:10:57
  for good living from a psychological perspective and
• 2:11:00
  why they work amazing. And then the most recent one is
• 2:11:03
  how to get along with almost everybody.
• 2:11:05
  Good one, we got to have you back and we'll do the Jesus
• 2:11:08
  books. Sure.
• 2:11:09
  This has been amazing, thank you so much.
• 2:11:11
  You make it easy. Well, talking to the.
• 2:11:14
  Professional here. Thank you.
• 2:11:16
  Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Lila Rose
• 2:11:18
  Show. I hope you enjoyed it.
• 2:11:19
  I always do. Make sure that you're subscribed
• 2:11:22
  if you haven't hit that subscribe button already and go
• 2:11:24
  over to our Patreon to support the mission of this show.
• 2:11:27
  That's patreon.com/lila Rose Show.
• 2:11:30
  A huge thank you to our partner EWTN, the largest religious
• 2:11:34
  broadcaster in the entire world. EWTN is reaching millions of
• 2:11:37
  people every single day with the beautiful truth of the gospel.
• 2:11:40
  You can watch new episodes of the Lila Rose Show 24 hours
• 2:11:44
  before they hit podcast app over at ewtn.com slash on demand.