Latest / The Good Builder Podcast / The Daily Dose #276 | The Quiet Builder: Trust, Standards, and the Art of Saying No with Ash from Glenvill Homes

Transcript

The Daily Dose #276 | The Quiet Builder: Trust, Standards, and the Art of Saying No with Ash from Glenvill Homes · The Good Builder Podcast

• Aaron Ng (00:56) Well, I'm looking at this little camera right here because I am in Glenville Homes head office here in Docklands, Victoria, because I'm sitting with a guy that I've been chasing down for a few months. Not his fault, it's my fault. I got busy, but I was like a needy girlfriend and I wanted to talk to him for a long time. I spent a bit of time with him on a boat. I've seen what he's done with this amazing brand at Glenville homes, you know, going from a wholesale builder, primarily to some retail product in the market and him driving, you know, a great business. They're quite an interesting business. You guys out there might not know a lot about them. They're pretty quiet, but very successful. And it's quite cool that they're not like some of the marketing machines out there for me, to be honest. I really love that they like that. Um, Asha's had a massive, uh, a lot of experience in the industry with some really interesting builders in both spaces. Um, and it's my absolute pleasure to bring this legend to the podcast who I've been chasing down for six months. But as I said to Ash before, my fault, his, but I flew all the way here just to hang out with him. How are you, mate? What's going on? It's a pleasure and obviously been good to catch up with you last year and finally do this and kind of cool. both in Melbourne. mate, it really funny. was out on a side of another builder and I rang Ash last week and Ash was like, week. I'm like, I'm in Melbourne, I'm in Docklands. And he's like, so am I. And you should check out the new office. I'm like, dude, we're going to do this podcast. We're going to do it sooner rather than later. Let's do it in Melbourne. well Ash mate, if you wouldn't mind, if you could tell the community a little bit about you, you know, you, You kind of have done some amazing stuff, but you know what I find in this industry, maybe is there's great people like you that are pretty humble and don't spook from the rooftop talk. do every day about things that I do. I think it's time for you, mate. Tell us, not much, right? But you're doing some very cool stuff like sitting in this space right here. Yeah. they'll see some of the footages I put it on, but yeah, could you tell us a bit about your journey, Ash? And what you, what you got here? Yeah. Yeah. Interesting one. Like, Probably starts from when I was quite young, my ex-stepdad now, but he was actually a franchise owner of AB Jennings in Dubbo in rural New South Wales. So a lot of my days were going after school to the warehouse and being involved around there. And then we moved to Queensland in the Gold Coast in 2000 and basically started up a smaller, more so spec home builder. Wow. A lot of my days, you know, you get picked up from school and we go into, you know, job sites and, know, he was basically the supervisor and everything, right? Um, so I kind of had a lot of hands on with that as a young age and, my mom did a lot of the display homes and styling and all that kind of stuff. And she was like doing the admin and all that kind of stuff. So I was around construction from an early age. And then, um, you know, when I got out of high school. as most people are, maybe not, but they're the nerd, right? And then I had opportunity of what I want to do and I want to go to uni and all that kind of stuff. And there was opportunity to kind of work for him and learn the business. And I think at that stage, was like, construction sucks, it's messy, it's dirty. I want to do all the stuff. And I ended up going to Bond University doing a Bachelor of Computer Games. which is, uh, was the first year they offered back in 2008. I thought, that's cool. Like I love, I love that kind of stuff. And that was the industry that was booming at the time. And it's become a billion dollar industry. And, know, I was like, Oh, I want to be part of that. And ended up doing that for a while. And then at that time I'm kind of working in telco. Uh, so went to Vodafone, Telstra, Apple for a while. kind of because that was that was fun, right? It's different and there's new stuff coming out and I enjoyed that. I think problem solving for me is a big skill that I love and you know, someone comes in with something not working it, trouble settings is fun. So yeah, did that for a while and then it basically got to the stage where, you know, I finished my degree and like what am I going to do? And I was really enjoying honestly working in that retail environment. uh, making sales, uh, you know, always kind of being decent, you know, good at that. And I think the interesting thing about that role is you have to connect with someone really quickly. Yeah. You know, someone sits down, you know, you've maybe got half an hour to find what they need, give them the right solution, build rapport, offer, offer a solution, close a solution. You know, like it's, it's very systematic, but, um, which I think I've kind of taken some of that to what we're doing with retail now, but. it's, fast paced retail, it's, it's different than just buying like, I don't know, like a fridge or something from JB Hi-Fi. There's a relationship because they send their friends in and they're updating every year or two years. So they come back and see you. So there's a relationship there. And there's also business customers that, you know, you've got to build their trust. Yeah. You got an ongoing service to the mash. It's interesting too. Like, you know, you, you you can't make assumptions of people because. half the time the guy with shorts and thongs on on a Saturday comes in and you look up his account, he owns a business and it's like hundred phones and you're like, what the hell? So you kind of got to not judge a book by the cover in that regard. But then, yeah, ended up kind of wanting to a bit of a change out of that. Cause I think at that stage I was 28, which is relatively old. know, most of the guys working in phone stores are 20. So. And funny enough, I just ended up going to Seek and looking for sales jobs because that was my kind of skill set. I didn't want to be in front of a computer doing video games. I like talking to people and I like being involved. So that was something I kind of learned. What you think you are when you get to high school is not that way. Yeah. And then, yeah, looked on Seek and then ended up, you know, I found this sales business development manager role. And at that stage, was like, what the hell is that? you know, a BDM, no idea what that is. Ended up going for interviews. So was for choice homes at Paradise Point. And yeah, you know, got that job. And that was my first kind of insight into probably more of a commercial, I guess, not retail. Yeah, you know, in a business setting. And that piece, I think they just come off to like, you 500 at that point. Wow, know, she had a massive year with lot of land. So it's a good place to learn. And I think it was like three of us that started at once. and, yeah, so basically that was a, you know, learning what, what is wholesale when it comes to construction, which is a bit of a weird one. Like it's a lot of people don't know. And even people in construction, don't know, mate, people in this business don't know what it is because it's, is different. know, trying to explain to someone says, what do do for work? And you're like, I'm a BDM at a builder. Well, sell wholesale house, same packages. so that, was interesting and learning that. And it's an interesting gig being in wholesale because. You know, you, you, it's a relationship thing, right? You're building relationships. It's, know, you're working and you're also selling to salespeople, right? Cause these people sell the houses. So you've kind of got to, you know, talk to them differently because they're not buying it. Yeah. So there's a, there's a bit of a coaching, you know, almost managing aspect to it. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I had a couple of agents that. I reached out to and everyone knew the industry and I kind of helped teach them. Hey, because it's varying degrees, isn't there? It's just guys. Well, anyone can be a wholesale selling agent, right? Yeah. You can set up a website. You can, you know, do some Facebook ads. You're on. You don't need to be a real estate agent. don't need anything. So some people just go figure it out. And then, you know, they and I was kind of like, well, I'll take you out of my wing and I'll show you how to sell. And so that was interesting. And then, yeah, from there kind of moved, was there for three years, wanted a change. There was no good progression there, you know? So, and I'm the type of person where pretty much every job I've been out of moved through the ranks. Probably a bit of ADD and need to keep doing new things. I think you deserve it though, mate. Yeah, I think you deserve it though, Ash. Yeah. And then we ended up getting reached out to on LinkedIn from the owner of Skyfoot Homes and they were setting up this... first time, not first time buyer, but like setting up this more entry level build. Yeah. so, you know, interested in it was the opportunity to kind of learn a lot. And to be honest, I didn't know what I was in for. Because I think one thing I've learned about different builders is that they're all different. So like, when I was at Choices, an example, you're not you're not privy to a lot of the any of the construction stuff, the estimating stuff, how they price it. floor plans, like you're just selling to then go to, you know, start to focus. And I think the first meetings I had was like, cool. What are we doing? Wow. Yeah. was like, It was like, cool. You know, how are we going to sell these things? And on your shoulders? Yeah, literally. And I had to explain to them what wholesale was. So it was a weird, it was a weird setup. And, but yeah, obviously my experience is wholesale. So I was like, cool, well, I think this is the best way to go. Um, and that was cool because I basically was involved in very small business and I was deciding, you know, the spec. I was kind of given the full, it was gone from having no authority to your, you're in charge, you're in charge of the boss. Right. Um, so, you know, we worked on, we had two levels of spec, um, pick the floor plans, pick the facades, worked really closely with the team on that. had a really cool marketing team. So that really helped us, you know, get the really cool marketing out there. And yeah, so that was, that was pretty full on. But I think at that time, I was, cause when I was at choice, I kind of saw there was a gap in the market where, which was owner-occupier wholesale. Cause at that stage it was definitely more investors, know, owner-occupiers bought retail and that's what it was. So I put together a spec, you it was high rent had bigger appliances, higher skillings, ducted, it had all the stuff that you would want and then you're doing a volume you can get a good rate so we did that and I partnered with a couple of great first-time buyer groups and did 50 deals in six months. Just me, you know I was the BDM, I was the sales manager, I was doing all the stuff. The specifications manager. Putting it all together so yeah it was pretty but it was you know it's kind of nice to say well actually works. Well, you've seen it from that shows me you've you've seen it from the ground up. But you've created the product thing back then. Okay, you know, had you had a couple of builders that offering high specs and stuff like that. But not many, but not many. And even then there was still investment focus. So I was yet some great, some great groups and some great stuff. And basically, this wasn't fortunate that it was right when COVID started, you know, and we were selling things. and prices were going up 30, 40, 50 grams. and when you're with first time buyers, they kind of forward that, you know, and you're doing variations and all this kind of stuff. And it basically got to the point where it was just a bit of a mess. and then also being a smaller builder at that point as well, you're not getting, know, you're getting the highest rates. So, it basically kind of, it kind of crumbled. I mean, fortunate enough for me, I think they saw the writing on the wall and I was made redundant. Yeah. Um, which is actually the best, best outcome. Um, so I was there for about nine months and you know, success and they wanted to try and go a different route with it. Um, and then I had a couple of months, think a month or two off. And this was like, once again, construction is this what I want to do? You know, my experience is wholesale. Um, but you know, do I want to keep doing that? And then, yeah, get up by recruiter and They said, Oh, know, Glenville, I've never heard of them at this point. Cause even though they were a competitor, they were still in the dark. Yeah. Um, you know, I think I might've lost a couple of deals when I was at choice. Cause their pricing was very sharp and marketing was great. Oh yeah. And you know, um, yeah. So, then had the interview and it was an office in Bowen Hills and it was tiny, you know, as big as this. studio now in a small world. was probably only eight staff, I think at that time, know, sales manager, office manager, one estimator, one drafting. So very small. It's kind of like what I've done with Focus where it's a small business. But then, but had the big business behind, know, you've got websites, you know, and was 70 years, know, cool marketing, that kind of stuff. So that was interesting and the office was nice and You know, I live in a Gold Coast so it's an hour drive each way. That was a pain, but I saw the value in that. You know, and I think it's one of those things, even back then it was very much like, you know, we've got this coming, we're doing, we're going to be retail to Queensland, we're doing all this stuff. you know, I like building things. that was exciting for me. the biggest thing for that too, I mentioned, lot of growth, there's going to be growth. There's to be roles for you to slot into. Basically the role I was hired for was house and manager. Yeah. Yeah. And don't tell anyone this, I didn't know what was doing. Yeah. Yeah. All right. In the interview, I used GeoSight before. like, yeah, pretty sure I have. No. Because that was, you know, when I was at choice, I was all done by someone else. Yeah. And you were blind to it. focus. No offense to choice, but that's how they operate. It makes it efficient. won't I had an awesome draft here that he did for me. So you only know what you know. So it kind of came to that role and had a one day of training and then just figured it out. And there was a fair few days there like those early days where you get there, you leave at seven at night because you just have to get stuff done. businesses were very, like Queensland and Dick were very much together. and at that point too, Queensland was going gamebusters as it has continually since then. but know, a big guy selling Queensland and stuff. yeah, so it's been an interesting role. And yeah, so I kind of did that. And then I moved into the BDM role again, which is kind of what I knew. Had some great success there. think I had a year, you know, 200 sales. Why do you have? You know, a great brand and, know, especially Hasland packages in our relationships. And then, yeah, state sales manager looking after wholesale and retail. which was still kind of at its infancy then. And then pretty much mid last year, you know, a little bit of push from MD, pushed in just the retail space. So, cause it's one of those things like they're very different businesses, but not really. I've always been an advocate for wholesale, just because you're selling it with an agent, doesn't mean the client shouldn't get the experience and the product, you know, that they did paying for, right? Cause you're paying the same money. If buy it from Metricon or from Choice Homes, for example, you're paying the same money. So you want a similar experience. So for me, customer service has always been crucial. And obviously dealing with agents and developers, it's all about service. And it's all about saying, do what you say you're to do. Right? think that's, if you do that in business and you're a good guy, you'll generally win. I think you tick all those boxes too. It's a long-term thing. You know, I'm 36 this year or 37 this year and I've still got good to go. Yeah. But you got a lot to give. I got a lot to go and I think it's exciting. And I think it's just one of those industries where it sucks you in and you know, I can't imagine anything else. And I think too, if you're a salesperson, right. I don't know. It's kind of like the epitome of selling. Yeah, yeah. it's something that everyone needs, everyone wants. You know, if you're like fast cars and boats and stuff, it's a luxury item. Yeah. You know, there's a different selling tactic for that. But with a house, everyone wants it. Yeah. It's how do you get them in? How do you get them in? And I think it's a lot more information as well. And I'll tell you what, I think you the nail on the head. This is really interesting for me, because I thought I knew you, but I don't. But I like the man that I'm getting to know more. I like you a lot. You know, it's not even about me, but like you're amazing man. I love I love what I love about the good builder is I find these really good people that stick out to me like dogs balls and I probably shouldn't say that but like you stick out in the industry like man You're different and I spent time with you on the boat like you're different and then we walked out of here and I'm like there's levels to this and I was kind of inferring his levels to people in the game as well. Yeah And I think some of the people, some of the best people in our industry in a way, I hope I don't offend a lot of people out there, but I think some of them come from other industries as well. Like you've got that strong retail background with, and with good training from Apple, but you've also got this. What I see in you, man, like you love a challenge. You're not scared of nothing and you're ready to go up against it. like even doing a brand like Glenville retail in Queensland, pretty, it's like for all your Victoria listeners and New South Wales and all that. It's a pretty big competition up there. like it's hardcore in Queensland and it's Cowboys. Like we do what we want a bit. Yeah. People pop up everywhere. A lot of competition in Southeast Queensland, mate. The concentration of builders and trades there is just bionic. Yeah, it is. You know, so it's really interesting to hear your mindset, mate. And I guess what I'm getting from it is I wish that all of it. like more people in the industry like you that are coming in and thinking this way, was going to like toward the end, of course, the signature question is what makes a good builder. But I reckon if lots of people will listen back to what you just said, I think the answers in those clues that you just gave. I think it's like, it's interesting, right? you know, I'm a retail salesman, and it's never done retail sales from a housing perspective, right? Which is, which is cool. And that kind of really shows the the confidence that the business puts in me, which, you know, and I'm now we've got bit of a saying in the business, know, bleeding black, which is, know, the Glenball, your Glenball person. I think for me, um, whenever I do anything, go, I go, I go steam ahead. Like I, use an example yesterday in a conversation I had where like I was a Vodafone back when, you know, Vodafile was a thing. And it's like, I take that personally because I like, you know, if I'm working for that business, I'm representing them. I give a shit. And I think too, like, I try to myself with people that give a shit. there's jobs for people and there's careers for people. And I think I'll surround myself with people that, it's a career, it's this progression. It's not just a nine to five. And especially in sales, it's never nine to five. And in retail too, right? from wholesale to now. I've got guys working the weekends. I'm working seven days a week. Your wife's getting home at 5pm from work. You're on. it's pretty cool. It's even better now. My fiancee Kiara joined our business in the last year. Oh, cool. So she's our interior designer for Queensland. it's cool. it's like a lot of people go, you know, do you want to work with your missus and stuff? it's like, I was spending time with her. And it's cool. She used to hear conversations with me because I talk at things, right? go for a walk and I'm like, this is frustrating or what should I have done? And now it's like she's there. So we have the same conversations about work. it's not a job for us. Like it's a career we both love it. And as I mentioned before, I'm planning my next house with my third house of building with us in four years. And, uh, know, she's doing all the colors for it. So that's pretty exciting as well. Man, didn't know she was the interior designer. Big shout out to Chiara then, because it's beautiful what you do. Um, phenomenal. And even to maintain the brand, what I've been infatuated with too, with Glenville is also, say the marketing is really good. You're not like a marketing beast, like Metricon, example, but your marketing is very good. Like it's tasteful. It's great. Don't. share this with the marketing manager, but if I was the marketing manager, I amplify it more because I think you'd really, it talks to some like, and, and, and, well, it shows what you actually deliver the product you deliver. it talks to a very specific, we've built, like I had, you know, we do townhomes, right? All terraces. We call them, right? And you know, we've done, we've done like a hundred of them. But there's no photos or videos of anything that built. I've seen a couple and they're stunning. Yeah, we do cool stuff. And even like, in fact, for me, particularly with this retail branch, we've got our first few clients also to go to site. We've got another five or six displays getting to go to site this month and next. So that's gonna be cool. we're have about 12 displays in Queensland in the next year and a half. Holy shit. That helps showcase that, you know, we're going hard at it, right? And I think too, like, like me or MD Lee, he just goes hard at it and we're going to do it. We're going to do it right. We're not going to test the waters, do a couple of displays. No, we're going 12 displays. know, we've got five of Stockland and a couple of Lenium and all these other, you know, really great developers. We've got great relationships with. So, um, yeah, it's pretty exciting. There's a lot of, a lot coming. Yeah. Um, as well as like a new brand we're launching in 1st of July as well. So yeah, wow. Nah, it's. Man, it's very cool, Ash. As I said, I didn't know the half of you and where you sort of came from, But like you can see. Yeah, but I can also see like when I talk, when I've all my interactions with you, Ash, all my interactions have been always come off feeling calm about the industry, always come off feeling positive about the industry. Like there's a plan. You always feel calm. but there must be. But yeah, know, but there must be some difference between wholesale and retail and then launching a retail brand. What are some of the biggest sort of differences that you've had to adjust to bringing that to market, Ash? I think, mean, the biggest thing is probably just the pace. So, like, and I guess like, there's heaps of analogies you can use, but you know, you might say wholesale is just dominoes, right? It's like, it's the same pizza multiple times, quick, quick, quick. You know, and out, it's affordable. know, I mean, there's no less changes to it. It's quick. Where retail is some, you know, wood fired Italian thing where they make the dial and it's, it's a bit slower, right? And you take a more custom order. Yeah. You know, it's a bit more premium and it's, there's more thought that goes into it. Um, but I think, yeah, so it's a, it's a, many ways on pizza must be hungry for lunch or something. But yeah, so I think for retail, it's, it is a lot slower. Um, and obviously like with wholesale, you're dealing with the selling partners, right? So as I said, you're selling the salespeople, you know, talk to them. It's very different. You know, it's, it's business in that regard. Um, a lot of it's similar though, because as I said before, a lot of the times you're, you're giving them how to sell it. Yeah. Right. they just forward that on. Yeah. So with retail, you just got that direct, direct part of it. And, I've been fortunate, especially for the first couple of clients that we've had where. you know, I've been involved in the whole process. So they come in, you know, an amazing sales consultant, Tori, that's done amazing work with us over the last six months and really good at building customer relationships. And, and she started a couple of months before we even launched the brand. And I would just figure it out, which is really cool. But, know, it's been a time for clients and the hardest thing for us is we're not a household name. We've had a couple of clients that have come from Vic and they have a bit more confidence to go, yeah, now I'm seeing what you guys do. And we didn't have a two storey display until quite recently. there's, and we're mainly selling two stories. Luxury homes, they're not having something to show someone makes it harder. And a lot of what we do is trying to build the trust, you know, because people won't buy anything from anyone they don't trust. build that relationship. So that's where kind of, you know, the crossover is from telco where you're building that relationship. Absolutely. But the biggest thing for me is I hate people that bullshit. Yeah. Yeah. Promise the world can't deliver. I'm very much a kind of under promise over the top a guy. Yeah. And I think that's where like we've had clients, our first couple of clients, particularly where, know, we're giving them quotes. And then by the time we've kind of got to the stage where we're finalizing it, it's coming in less than what we quoted them. Oh, it's very easy for a builder to say who does that? It's the same price. Yeah, Make more money. But we go not we price it properly. Because we end up in you know, spoke to my consultant said, let's add a bit extra in at the front end. So they're not let down at the back end. Yeah. And that's been, you know, and how cool is it to say, Hey, great news. We've got your tender finalized. it's coming. I've never heard of that before. Really? know what I mean? Ash? Yeah. yeah. Cause it's one of those things like it's. And also like building a long building a house is a long process, right? Yeah. You know, especially if your land has entitled it can take, you know, just bought a block. My title is in September. You know, I'll probably be in the house just before Christmas. It's like. there's almost a two year process of that and you're engaging with the builder the whole way through. So there's a lot of time to let them down, you know what I mean? Or make them have a great experience. they can have a great experience with sales, but then they get to the ops part of it and get let down. And I just can't have that, right? So you have to be awesome all the way through. And I think that's something that we've been growing. with retail in Queensland, like, I think we've done 42 deals in, you know, six months, roughly. That's good. Totally happy with that because that's proper deals. No one's no one's canceled. Yep. Because we take the time. Yeah, and it might take a month or two from a first phone call to paying initial deposit. But I'd much prefer that then we take a deposit. And then they cancel. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. think a lot of builders have set up that way where it's turn off. You go on the display home, you your credit card. hard. Yeah. Great. You know, and they don't care. Once you're in the system, it's designed to track you. You you get in with a base price that's crap. You know, you go to your colors, it's 100k more. You know, it's just by design. Yeah. And I think from our perspective, we're trying to do that differently where, know, Like the spec we've got includes most of the stuff you're to want. Yeah. my sales consultants go a bit more and they will have those conversations and say, you know, what do you, how do you live? Yeah. Do you live in the house? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. what do you live now? What do you like about it? do not like about it? You know, like really get to the crux of it. So you're not, you're not just going, here's the floor plan, you know, pay deposit. We're the best. it's, it's more like, cool. Let's delve into it. And you might have four or five conversations. before you even talk price. And then prices are the thing, you know? Yeah, because you understand them. Correct. Yeah. And people will pay for what they see value in. You know, that's never changed. And sometimes it's showing them the value. But I think if you can customize it to be valuable to that person, particularly where it's not the same as everyone, then the value just skyrockets. And I think to build that trust, you know, and I with any client that wants to call me can call me. I'm not off limits. I a question. I don't care if the house is nearly finished. I'm happy to go out there and answer questions. So, which is cool. It's a cool thing about not doing crazy volume in this space. You know, we're still a wholesale, which does good volume. We're launching a new brand first of July that's first home buyers specific. cool. So that's going to be more of a volume based thing as well. Yeah. But yeah, as far as that's concerned, it's the same process. Build trust. do what you say you're going to do. Um, and I think too, like I mentioned, like timeframes, the biggest thing, but being, being quick, like some of these big guys, you know, it'll take you two weeks to get a price, you know, and I'm like, it's not that hard, you know, in our business, particularly like, I'll just go and talk to you estimate and go to the price, you know, which is not an easy and a bigger machine, machine's not that small though. And it's one of those things like we've got a pretty small team for how the volume we do. Yeah. But as I said before, we've got people that care. Yeah. You can tell. And there's guys that get there early that stay late. No one's telling them to do that. Yeah. And that's not ideal, but it's one of those things. But also if you need to go and do something, you know, it's fun. Right. So yeah. Building a culture where people feel respected means you're not, it's not really worth it. Yeah. And I think like one of our values at Glenville is fun. Yeah. Wow. And I think, um, you know, we do like even on Friday, we have a social club. we go and, you know, we into events and we did go-karting. Yeah. Cool. Which is really cool. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's just hanging out and we have nice dinner and stuff. So yeah, the cool, you have a good team that care, um, it's so much easier. Yeah. You know, so that's one of those things through like with building. There's so many different people that touch it, as you would know. Not just from our perspective, it's like being at Glendale and our team, but then all the external trades and supplies. It's a coordinated dance, realistically, of building a house. And all it takes is one little thing to go wrong. And I tell customers, go, look, something's probably going to go wrong at some point. That's reality. There could be a delay. There could be something. And all I can really say to that is, but we'll figure it out. know, think that's what people want to is that look, something's going to happen, but we'll be transparent with you and then we'll come to you with a solution. Yeah. and that's no bullshit. Yeah. Cause that's the reality of it. love it. I've got two things from you, like two really resounding things that I get from you, mate. It is respect and trust. You respect the customer, but you definitely do. And you respect their time and you respect that you got to understand what they look. for, and then you just build that trust mate. And as simple as that sounds, I'll tell you what, it is so hard to do and implement in a building business because there are a thousand people dancing on a site and a thousand things that can go wrong. I think it's exceptional what you've mate. And I love how you think about it. The way you think about the sales process and how you treat your customers is really interesting for me. And we've done over 270 podcasts now. And I reckon the only other bloke who I have great respect for. massive respect for like I do for you that just ever talked about it like that. And I think he's probably the one of the best in the industry is the guy I met yesterday from Henley. Blackshaw. Never met him before. But you meet the man and you say, God, sat there and I was like, you were so logical. I love the way you do things. I don't know much about you because you're quite on the down low when you don't spook your own personal brand or what. You you spruik the Glenville brand, but the Glenville brand and the Henley brand are a bit different to some other brands that like to spruik themselves and get them out there. But then you meet them and you're like, no wonder you're successful. Yeah, mate, I'd just really, as I said during the interview, you know, you go around doing this thing at the Good Builder and you go, yeah, things are pretty much the same. I'm gonna talk to Ash and I know you're a smart dude, but. He's going to say some stuff that this other guy said and things like that. But I'm so glad I'm here because you're saying stuff that nobody says and you're doing it in a different way. And I freaking love it. And I think, like, I know this is going to sound really bad, but I want brands like you to win big time. And what I find really frustrating for us at the good builder is all the other, some other brands that do it really, really bad. And then for brands like you to enter the retail market, there's already this distrust. in the market against you and you've got to, you've always got to build trust and I know it's top of your agenda as I said, but you start from a level of, not a level playing field, you're here, they already don't trust you. You're gonna get to, we're gonna consider you, then trust you. And it's because of the operation of how people have been operating in this construction environment, I believe, in the way people, particularly salespeople, operate. And, um, and again, that's why I also loved when you were talking about quoting people and, know, packing up the front end of the bit, you know, on that first initial quote. you're not going to let them down when you actually price it properly. Like, yeah, yeah. wish people in this industry would think like you, man. Can people think? Well, it's probably just, as I said, it's based on the, it's not my, I haven't been taught by a big machine on how to do it. And I think too, like we want to do things different here as well. Like we. You know, another one of our, you know, kind of things is pioneering, right? Like we want to be pioneering. We don't want to be doing things everyone else is doing as well. You know, and you still have to respect what everyone else is doing. And, know, there's certain trends that you have to stick with, but, know, from our perspective and it's cool. And that's what I like about it. Like it's challenging, right? Doing something no one else has done before is hard. But it's also the most fun part of it. Which is pretty cool. Do you as a business. pay attention to a lot of other builders or do you as a person, I'm just sorry, these is questions that are just off the top. Or do you keep your blinkers on? Like, for example, when I was a marketing manager, I used to always say to people, people, I was pretty good at what I did. And people were like, how do you do it? And I'm like, I keep my blinkers on. know where I want to go. And I'm like a racehorse and I'm going there. How do you do it? Are you guys like that? Or are you like that? I think for me, like, I think you still need to know what your competition is doing. You know, probably goes back to retail dows days when you're at, know, you know, when I'm at Telstra as an example, you know, you're the most expensive, but you know, you've got the best brand and product potentially, right. But you still need to know, you know, what, what clients are looking for. And if someone comes in and they go, you guys are too expensive, you say, no worries. I know there's a brand for you that suits right. So you can't please everyone. but I think as well, yeah, knowing what, knowing what competition is doing, but it doesn't really matter what they're doing. I think if you have self-confidence and belief that you're doing the right thing, cause there's, there's guys that, know, you could follow them down that path. Doesn't work. Yeah. or then also do you want to be following someone? Probably not. I much prefer to do something different and it fails then. not give it a go. You know what I mean? So I think our business is interesting because it's big, but we'll pivot real quickly. But we'll just go, we're doing this. And you've got a deadline of three months. And then everyone is just, it's like little ants, know, like all working towards the same goal. Yeah, so what you did with the retail, I remember you telling me about it and it was like, boof, retail's on. I'm like, woo, let's go. And then 42 deals already in six months, man. Like that's good. And you just roll ahead and it's interesting to be like, haven't even really done marketing yet. I'm there in Southeast Queensland. I look at everything. Yeah, you would. you're doing a great job. We've been online, but you know, the strategy is for us billboards and radio. We want to go, we want to be big, you know, um. You know, I'd love to, there's that metric on, um, banner on the, on the hallway. one that's been there for many years. I was like, Hey, whatever you can to get rid of it and say something new is coming, you know, like, um, so yeah. So I think too, like for me, I love marketing too. Yeah. Like when I was at uni, um, kind of majored in advertising and marketing, cause I just, find that so interesting how people think. Um, and I think marketing is a really fun industry. Yeah. So, you know, whenever I get a chance to give him, like, give my opinions, I'm always like, let's do this. Yeah. Because that's fun. And I think too, like you can, you know, with a, with certain brands, like we've got multiple brands of different vibes, you know, and you can do different stuff that way as well. Yeah. Yeah. I love it, Ash. Mate, you, you, you just going to be successful. You already are. I think you talked about the 42 homes and you talked about it like, yeah, pretty good start. It's a freaking good start. And I'll tell you what's going to happen. And you know what's going to happen. You know what's going to happen though, Ash. And I know you're the sales manager and state manager and all that stuff, but mate, what's going to happen is when they get in the ground and start going up, it'll just be people looking at it. It'll just be bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. That's how it will go. I know you're a much better, you're a different piece than me, but I'll tell the story about my little Avondale homes thing that I did. And we, we faked sign. So, yeah, what I used to do was I went and got them printed out. Thanks. Stick a man from Caloundra. You did some illegal shit for me. And I used to print out massive core flutes, two sticks, put them on land. wasn't ours. Avondale homes coming here soon. We weren't even building, put them 12 in a row down Woody Hill, you know, down those acreage blocks. Everyone wanted an Avondale home, but you're doing it legit with 42 homes in the ground. We don't even have Glenville homes coming soon, son. Yeah, mate. I'm trying to get them, but yeah, so I'll go do it. I believe in you so much. We could do more marketing, think. Yeah. And that's where we kind of like, yeah, we will get there. And it's one of those things like where the other thing too is you don't want to go too crazy. Like you want to, there's good advice finalizing you like as sales, like you really, you're the gatekeeper for the rest of the business. You know, I had this conversation with one of my sales guys. the other day, and had a client that was just, you know, I mean, speaking to so many agents over the years, you can just, I can tell bullshit so well, and I can read people really well as well, if they're lying to me or whatever. And I called this client, they wanted to buy from us, and I got off the phone, I'm like, they're never buying with us, they want the cheapest, like, we just can't help them. And I spoke to my consultant, and I said, look, you know, Could you close them? Probably. Are they going to be a pain the whole way through the business? Yes. Is that worth it? Probably not. Because I mean, in my opinion, like sometimes saying no is so much more powerful than a yes, you know? And it's Well, that's it. the next day another client came in that was so happy because there was exclusive water veils. Like, you know, this client was not. just gonna be paying the whole way through. And you have clients like that. that's like where, you know, you want to protect your business where you're bringing the right clients in that aren't gonna be paying the whole way through. And you got those clients that are just, especially in this case, the first time buyer, they're just so stoked that they got a block. And they love the product, they love the brand. Like, they're the kind of clients you want. So, you know, we say no a lot in this business. wow. It's not everything. It's not take everything. It's also as well, like if the client wants to do something that's a bit crazy, not crazy, but like a bit out of what we are normal, you know, I'll go to our construction manager and say, what do you reckon? Wow. Is this something that we can do? Are we capable to build this? Go to the estimator. He said, yes. What's this going to cost? Go to drafting, like just doing the right thing. It's thorough. And I think it's- that's what most builders do, don't it? And then out the other end comes massive problems. their time, they could have bought something else. You can drag it on for a while. So for me, much prefer to say a quick no. Hey, you can't do that. Very interesting. And it's always, it's always, can't do that, but I can do this. Right? And I think that transparency and speed doesn't muck anyone around. So yes, that's kind of how we try to do it. As you get bigger and bigger, that gets harder. But particularly at the moment, we're setting up processes where we can say no when we need to. And I think that's protected us. So cool, if there more deals, yes. Would there have been problems? Probably. And that's not really worth it because we need to protect the rest of the business the whole way through. I think you're first sales, excuse me, the first salesperson that actually ever even has even ever spoken about that. Say no and those sorts of things and the methodology of why. Yeah, sometimes, you know, like we're not a builder that runs discounts, know, like, well, we've got some promos in big at the moment, you know, the price, you know, like it's good value. There's no hidden, you know, there's no freestyle. particularly when I was doing wholesale, you're always up against retail builders saying free this, that, free that, which is bullshit, right? Nothing's free. It's in their price. And I think too, like the way people are evolving now, like a good example is AI, right? We had an email from a client last week and we'd sent her the spec and a bunch of other stuff at a full tender. And it was... blatantly obvious that they'd put that in that AI, chat GPT and said, give me a rundown of this. And, you know, and they emailed us and it's all this, you know, nothing I would use to cut those out, but it had all the information. yeah, the double dashes. Had all that stuff in it. And I'm like, this is AI, because this is stuff that they wouldn't, and it's not relevant. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, But I think AI gets it wrong. It does. And it's asking questions like, dog, we dig into Greenfield's state, like Yeah. Yeah. Um, I think that is how it is going to be now. I said to the sales team, said, this is what you're going to come across. Yeah. Is that we're at the stage now, but we probably need to modify our tenders to cover some of those things. You know what I mean? Like, don't know if I want to cut this out of the podcast, man, only because that is a massive hint for a lot of builders. They are all doing, all customers are doing that dude. Every single one, and they ask you what can I do? that's part of the selling point. think customers are more. I said, didn't, but you know, they're aware of what they're doing way more than before. I think, you know, 10, 20 years ago, you've gone to display home and what they tell you is the truth, right? No one trusts anyone now. they go to display home, you know, generally before they go to display home, they've at their website a hundred times. They've done their research, you know, hopefully they've spoken to a broker. They've got a good idea. So you don't, you know, you're not really telling them what they don't know. A lot of the time it's. where I think the best sales people are is they break through that and go, you know, ask them questions about themselves. And as I said, like, what do you, what do you like? What you're not like? That's something that I can't tell you. You know, um, it doesn't know. So the human elements is never going to go away from sales because people don't trust computers either. No. And I think the fact that that email that I saw, you know, there's a lot of stuff in there that's, you know, that's, that's waste of time. And yeah, you know, call the client and just fix the plan and say, you know, don't, tell them that I know what you did. Yeah. You know, you know, cool. know what you're talking about. Um, but some of this stuff's irrelevant. Um, so I think that's something a bit of a hint for moving forward is, you know, maybe tailoring your paperwork to, uh, align with what that's going to spit out. You know, if it's got, if it asks, if it says like, this could be missed, maybe change, change of wording to say it's included. so it doesn't pick it up. You know what mean? So that's, yeah, the industry is very different and it's gonna keep getting different. know, a good example again is facades as an example, you know, like that's something where it's always been expensive, blah, blah, blah. Even with the house, Karen and I working on for us to build, you know, we've, we taught us, look, I've set a render, chopped it in and said, I want this exact door. I want this color garage door. blah, blah, blah, and this type of landscape and it spits out a pretty good idea. So that's changing as well. And I've got a conversation with display hosts that works for us and she wanted to get into, she's young, she wanted to get into drafting. probably not a good idea. Because that industry won't be as it is very soon. You've got those kinds of tools and there's a lot of specific drafting AI. weird term, tools where, you know, it's doing a lot of that stuff. And I think, you know, some of the, you know, some builders will start using those tools and I think there's a risk there with, you know, building ability, copying other people's Yeah. True. It's trial internet and it's putting connections of stuff. yeah. Yeah. mean, realistically, even if someone draws it, they've got some ideas, right? It's, very hard to have a unique floor plan. Yeah. Especially with small houses, but yeah, buildability, that kind of stuff. So, there'll always be that human element, but I think, you know, it's, you'd be silly not to look at it and go, well, what tools make us more efficient? But particularly from a sales perspective, what tool was the client's using? And try to be ahead of it rather than reactive to it. love it. Mate, you are very, you are so thoughtful Ash, like. You are, mate, you're going to be, no, I'm just gonna, you know, I can see you. It, it, I am so pleased as, as I said in the pod already, I'm so pleased as people like you in the industry, you're going to be running. I'm not saying running Glenville. I'm not putting you in any, but you will be doing great things for this industry. What was really interesting. And I love about you, man. Everyone's talking about AI. You talk about it from the perspective of be on top of it. Make sure no one's ever, I have never even thought about this. I have never ever thought about, and I am so deep in building right now that I'm going crazy. But I have, yeah, mate, I have never thought about how the customer is using AI and then how does it impact a building business. And it is greatly, you are completely right. It is greatly going to change the way we buy. You know, things like reviews are a good example, right? Where, you know, you had like you do your product review, you you know, it'd be very likely if someone's choosing between A and B, they'll go to chat GPT and say, you know, what's differences between Glenville homes and metronome or something, right? And it will sort it out, right? which is kind of why it needs to know about your business a bit more, because it's gonna You know, like us, for example, we're, you know, not as out there with some of those guys might be, but, that people will do that. They will use that. And if it's not spitting out the right data, cause it doesn't know everything, then that's a problem. So it's something that's for us. would have to, we have to keep top of and go, what is it thinking about us? is it, is it being truthful? And just understanding that clients will do that, think is probably the key. Cause, yeah, people are trusting that thing. Some people I see walking around us asking it questions. man, they don't think for themselves anymore. I people that don't think for themselves. I want to lift open their head and see if they've still got their brain in there. So it's a great tool to use. And I think people use it. But you know what, people like you thought honestly, I put you in the class of thought leaders. think thought leaders like you are going to stay ahead of the game more than the people that are on AI all the time. Cause you're thinking about it in a different perspective. The other thing you said, which I thought was super cool, Ash. So you talk about how the client uses AI and how it can impact your building business and what you need to think about. Mate for the thousands of builders that listen to us, they should. send you at least a dollar each and give you some money for that, mate. I would have, I was nearly going to cut that out because I'm like, I'm very mindful doing the good builder of, I appreciate the time that great people like you give us, but I'm also mindful of the experiences that you share. Like you figured it out. I guess that's our place in the ecosystem of building is why I did this good builder thing. But at the same time, I'm like, You guys should really start thinking for yourselves as well. Yeah. Yeah. Like I know the other thing that I love though. And I'm, this is another great answer and things that everyone should think about was you said, you know, AI won't replace humans. So there's always got to be that human element. Don't just think about using AI tools and how it implements, you know, implement into your business, become more efficient and take away some tasks. are tasks that you shouldn't. because a human intervention would be a allocation of that time than an AI agent. And I think you're thinking about it like that, but we've had multiple people on the podcast now and I love them, don't get me wrong, but sometimes I've sat there and I can't say much, but I sit there and I go, God damn, man, like you're just looking for the easy way out when sometimes it is gonna bring you more pain. I think your example, but if you flip that on the other side, I've seen builders that are just using straight AI to give out quotes and answer client emails and they're sending back wrong shit too. No, as I said, there's certain ways that it makes sense, you're an interesting dude, man. got it. Well, I don't know. I just think, like, I just think about what I would want, you know, and I've built, I'm not, you know, it's my third house building with Glenville in four years, which is pretty cool. And, know, not everything goes right, but I think, you know, I like to be buying and building and I think like yourself, if you love industry, you give a shit. I think too, like, I don't know, I guess it's just from experience and you know, I'm very proud of what, you know, of, you know, making a sale and I'm like any sales guy, love to win, but I think winning the right way is the biggest thing. know, it's nothing cooler than. seeing a, you know, this, you know, we've never had houses go to site yet, a bunch coming soon, which is really cool. And I'll be showing as much of that as I can, because I've got some really cool builds. I'll be getting in there, actually. If you can't, mate, I'll be out there with the drone. Yeah. It's got some little displays as well. So we've got some really cool stuff coming. Like that will make it, that's a different thing then you've got stuff on the ground. But, you know, I've had many good examples. One of our very first clients, I met with her quite a few times and she did a color section with Chiara. Karen, like now best mates, know, so sometimes you build these relationships with people and it's not just superficial. It's, know, it's, it's friendships and I think for me, particularly what I love about my job and also on wholesale, but more so now like in, in, my gig is, know, I've got some really good relationships with developers that I've worked with for years and, it's, you know, genuinely mates. Forever. catch up for dinner and it's like, or for lunch and it's like, we don't talk about work, you just talk about how's the kids, how's what's going on, you know, talk shit. Um, and that's where the fun part of the job comes in. But you know, those are the type of relationships that you can't make up. You just got to be a I think as long as you remember that there's always a real person there, you're like, I work for Glendale, right? But I'm still ashing my own person. That person works for whoever they work for, some developer. They're just a dude. They got their interests. They don't live and breathe work every day. Like, what do you like to do in your downtime? And that's my whole favorite part about it is the relationships with, know, with clients. love meeting clients, you know, and I love meeting developers and I love those relationships that come from, you know, working together. You know, I think my... My first job ever was Maccas, right? You know, in the kitchen and you know, it's, can still remember it now. a long time ago, but it's like that camaraderie. Yeah. Like that, you know, it sounds crazy, but if you went to Maccas, you probably get it of like the dinner rush and everyone's like, it's like a coffee or everyone's doing their own thing and it runs perfect. know, we need this. And, there's, something really cool about everyone working towards something. one big goal. Yeah. And you know, with developers like, you know, they want, they want to partner with builders, um, that share their values. Uh, they, you know, we want to partner with people that share values. We want clients that believe in what we're doing. Um, so, that's where, as I said before, you don't work for everyone. You pick who you like and same with developers. They like you, they like there's certain people that I don't really talk to and that's fine. They don't like me. That's cool. No one's gonna like everyone. So they should like you. find your tribe, you find the people you like. There must be weird if they don't like you though, Ash. I'm able to say that on the podcast, mate. I think you're legend, I can be racist sometimes. Yeah, nah. Well, I think it's like... It's passionate. Passionate, yeah. And the people aren't... I don't connect with those people. Who aren't passionate. Yeah. And same with me. Yeah. If you're not gonna push it and you're not gonna do things differently, then what the hell are we doing? What is the point in getting up and working your I know. for nothing. This is your dash. And this is what I am discovering. Unfortunately, probably 99 % of the population are like that. And I know that sounds really bad. They get up in the morning and it's like, tick a box. Yeah, I can't wait to get home from work. But you definitely come across and I know that all the conversations we've had and the more I get to know you and the way you're running this business and I know it you to a man like you're one of those guys like myself and not going to smoke up my own ass. But there are lots of others in there that are just like What are we doing today and how are we doing it better? That's if everyone just thinks like that in this industry, and that's probably the most simplistic way to talk about the good builder. If we just thought like that, then we'd be good builders. We'd be doing things differently. We'd be doing it the Ash way of giving a proper quote and then not afterwards. I just think about, you're right, mate, because I think about the heartbreak of first home buyers. Think about the heartbreak of a first home buyer man who goes in and gets a quote, yeah, I can afford that. got to get their final tender and everything 80k up 100k up yeah your whole dream is shattered there's a lot but a lot of it comes to to like we had this conversation earlier but like the they don't teach people how to do this stuff no no you're right like and i think you know i think with first time buyers particularly the majority it's it's a lot of it is teaching them you know like and it's it's funny it's not It doesn't start with building a house. starts with money. It's understanding how it works. know, the mindset of I just save a little bit more to get the bigger house. It doesn't work. That month, that year you saved up, it's gone up a hundred grand, 200 grand, right? So you can never, you can never do that. And Queensland's in a, like obviously we do both states and Vic and Queensland, come roughly across. thick, obviously very much across Queensland, but the first time buyer of marketing Queensland is kind of scary because what's the first time buyer now? You know, 900 K million bucks. Yeah. How do you save up that deposit? know, and I kind of look at it as what happened in New South Wales, you know, like it's all guarantees. Yeah. You know, you have have a thank you mum and dad. That's it. Like that's kind of the way it is. And I really do feel for the people that don't have that. Where you're a young couple, you work your ass off, you know, cost living has gone crazy. Rent's gone crazy. Like how are you meant to get into that first home? Yeah. You know, that's something I'm cognizant of. What's that? are you trying to fill the void with Glenville? I'm sorry. That's a pretty deep question, mate. Not deep, but I mean, in terms of business strategy. You know, you've kind of got like units, which is an example. Downside of units is you've got what we call and stuff like that. What about your terrace product? What's that like in terms of? think that's where, and that's where we've seen that work really well in Victoria. Okay. It's a big product. do. You did beautiful terraces. a lot down here. And I think we're, we're, we're really well, we've done quite a few in Queensland, about a hundred in Queensland and we're, we're doing a lot more up there. We're actually standardizing our ranges and making it more efficient to be price sensitive. But I think for us, like with the brand, like the terraces we generally put under the Glenblom Homes brand, and that's our higher end brand. we end, I don't, don't, and it's just the same with our first time buyer brand is we don't do shit for solids. We don't have a box that's your base house that you don't want to live in, won't comply with any covenants. You know, it's, it's crap, right? So even our most basic facades are beautiful. are stunning man. even our terrace space, like yes, just sacrifice. Like just because you sacrifice some money, doesn't mean it's just sacrifice for playing with the side. Yeah. Um, and I think the terrace products, like in Queensland, it's been around for a while, but you know, I've seen a lot from like mostly investment builders where they're just, they're kind of crap. Yeah. Painted board and you know, nothing really special about it. So I think that's where a market for us to bring that product, which we've been doing, but bringing it from Queensland, putting a cool facade on it. So you're not losing, you've got a cool looking house. The floor plans are thought out and considered to maximize space. I think too, like the blocks are getting smaller. That's the reality of it. I bought a three bedroom terrace from Glenville, or May Place I guess, back in... two years ago in Flagstone and the 500K, it's worth now 700. But you know, it's a great house. I look at it like, know, with Kira and I, we're a young couple, professionals don't know kids yet, coming soon hopefully, but that's perfect. And I think it's changing that mindset of, you know, what is the first buy a house? And I know, because I've been doing this a little while now, there was a stage there where they all... Yeah. bed to living, all this stuff. the conversation was like, what do you live in now? I live in a unit. And you're like, so why is that such a crucial thing? Maybe it's status. Your friend's over. I get. I want to have a nice house, people come over. But I think it's a mindset shift of like, land is only going up. There's a severe land shortage in Queensland. It's never going to go down and each release is going up. You know, 20 grand, whatever. Oh, I heard about some crazy shit going on up there, but anyway, yeah, that's yeah. So, so it's going up and that's, you know, I've become a bit soft to it. Like 20 grand. It's cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 20 grand. know. Yeah. Half a 20 grand. And that could be a case of where you, paid your EOI here and then you, you know, you signed it two days late. Yeah. Yeah. So there's an interesting situation there. So yeah, so a lot of that first time I think is just really teaching them, you know, how it works, how money works. Once they understand that, then you have a conversation about, cool, let's talk about where you want to be. Let's talk about, you know, what you're looking for in a house. Yeah. And same thing, like with our first time buyer brand, it's like, we don't, we don't have a base brick facade, you know, you know, yes, you want to be affordable, but we don't want to. And then we put our name on these times, right? Like we don't want to a shit home. You want to go drive past and go, that's cool. And you know, you can do facades well, crazy expensive and it looks good. And if you know the four plans, whatever, you know, we give clients full range of inclusions. They get to choose what they want. And obviously part of that is what they can afford. But as I said, like we're better off. over quoting them at the front end. Yeah. And go, look, you may not need this much money, but let's, let's put it in there. You suit your budget and take the extra time to explain exactly what they're getting. Yeah. No bullshit. Yeah. I love it. And then, know, and then we've, we've got, we can move, right? Yeah. So if it needs to go up, the budget goes up, if it comes down, we can go down. It's, it's, yeah, it's a, it's a relationship. Yeah. You're not just selling something and it's done. It's. You're selling it and it will evolve. Yeah. Through the process. Yeah. And you know what? Big invention retail and wholesale. And I think, well, I can't wait to see what goes on with Glenville Homes Queensland and what you're launching there because I think what's going to happen over time Ash and as this beast evolves is that those people that you develop so much trust with and know they can rely on you, we're just going to come back when they get their second and third home. and they're gonna build a better home. And you've explained with them at the beginning how money works, as you said, and how your first home works, and it's not your final home, man. It's what it is, and you're gonna move on. I think that's a... It's almost like a duty of care. It's interesting how you look at it, Ash, because you're looking at it like you're also supporting their dream, not just selling them a product and going away. You're kinda telling them, is how it's... going to eventually. I think that's important, man. Well, good example is like, you know, like I bought a terrace with us. Yeah, I'm now building a place house in Providence and then I'm building my dream house is a weird term, Your dream is for now. Yeah, yeah, Your dream changes. For now it's my dream house. That's cool. know, I've got goals and whatever, but it's my dream house. So and you've done it before 40. But they're all, you know, it goes from The terrace was 500k house and land. The house was 850 for investment house. And this is like 1.5. So you're working your way up. obviously I've done it living somewhere else. Like my first house I bought eight years ago, I still live there. Right. But that's, that's given me equity to buy that, to buy that, to buy that. So having that conversation and it's like, can't go straight today. But I think from a first home buyer, same thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. People that buy these million dollar house on the water, it's their dream house. They move in seven years. Every seven years people move in and out, right. yeah, a lot of it is just having those conversations and setting them up. And, you know, we're in a situation where we can build them that terrace home, the entry level, we can build in their investment house, we can build in their dream house. So, you know, they could be a customer for life realistically. And even out of those first of clients we've got, we've got clients that have already done two deals of us, you know, without even building the first one. So, which is, think a lot about this business is that we've got those multiple stages. And you can kind of capture whoever captures that word, you know, wherever, wherever they're at in life, you've got a product for them. Which is cool. Yep. I love it. I should, I think that, you know, I know inherently. It's not probably something that you're strategically doing, but I think it could be. think it actually could be. think it could be like, know, big picture part of the business is to have the different brands to do that. Yeah. And talk people through the journey. Like if we can, part of it is educating. Like I think part of the good build as I do the good builder, there's not just distrust within the industry and trying to raise the bar within it. It's outside of it too, Ash. And it's people like you that, and as I said before, you know, that are changing the industry and changing the perspective of the market out there because otherwise we do start from a low ball of trust in the market when we start. There's always that people in the industry, right? Yeah, yeah. And that's what people say. Yeah, that's all you hear about. And I think it's cool. think, you what I love what you're doing is you're talking to multiple parts of industry, right? Part of that information for a client is cool. You know, you're going to need a broker. You don't need a solicitor, you need a builder, you need a developer. need, they're your little team. And there's different developers out pretty quick by the land. The solicitor's there, so your land broker will help you out for your drawdowns. The builder's always there. But you need to have the right team. And we've had clients that, mean, another good example is we had a client that bought a block through us up in... Lilliewood area and had a broker, broker is a family friend, killed the deal. Basically, know, the broker was basically acting as a client solicitor, you know, saying, you need a finance course, you do all this stuff and blah, blah, blah, blah. Basically developer went too hard, killed the deal. So the developer, the land agent actually is a great person and she kind of said, your broker's giving you misinformation. They're acting as your solicitor. If you want to talk to this broker, you know, I know them personally, they might be able to help you out. of the day, of the day, spoke to this broker. They don't get 100k borrowing capacity, you know, and basically, yeah, got the deal, you know, so it just shows you how crucial having the right people on your team are. And I think brokers are interesting because they're all the same. It's kind like a doctor, right? People specialize in certain things. There's some brokers that don't do house and land. Yeah. You know, and, and they lodge the deal dodgy. have, you know, a lot of them, go, I've got, I've got a hundred lenders that I use, but they only use one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever it is, they get kickbacks. Right. So it's so cruel. Should I have the right people on your team? Same as solicitors giving you advice. They have to give you the right advice, which is for sure. Yeah. But, you know, I've solicitors say, Oh, yeah. You can't do that or they get all stocky's contract, which they do thousands a year, right? we need to change that. And it's like, you know, they're not going to change that for you because everyone else is agreeance with it. That's the industry, know, pretty much standard interstate as well. You know, get a Victorian solicitor, Queensland's different, you know, blah, blah. So Yeah, it's interesting how you really and that's what the lessons I guess of a client is going you need the right people just because the uncle said this brokers you're dealing for a million years and he's a business broker he does. He does, you know, commercial listings, right? He's not the right best person for you to buy your first house. yeah, yeah. It's very interesting how, you know, there's misinformation out there about that kind of stuff. Oh, yeah. And I think it's great. You're, you're less than around that. You got to need a good team around you. Like, do you guys internally at Glenville, do you offer that to your client? Do you have brokers that you can reach out to and help clients with and guide them in the right direction? Yes, yes, we do. I mean, I'm, I'm always hesitant of referring people. Yeah. Right. Um, just because, you know, unless, unless they hit a lot of scoreboards, like it's like a trust thing, right? Like, Yeah. Trust me and I refer them to someone else and I let them down. My trust is cooked. So, we, we try to stay away from that. It's more, I think that's also as well, like people don't trust sometimes from a buildup involved. So, you know, but that means that if somebody was going to really, I don't know where to go. Yeah. Cool. Here's some people that I've dealt with. Okay. so yes, but you've got no preferred. or any. Same with like even in wholesale we didn't have like a preferred property manager like same thing it's like you know we're the builder and you stick to what you're good at. build you a house, do your own research if you really want a referral I will but I'm not going to be like yeah you go to this person. Yeah wow. I'm just hesitant about that because that trust transfers different situation and it's one of those things like And also like people, when people refer me or Glenville to a client, which would have clients have been referred to us. Like I take that really seriously because that person has said, cause I know how I feel about it. And I know that if they've referred us, I need to like, I need to do my best for those clients. Because their reputation is potentially on the line. Right? Yeah. So, which I do for all the clients, but particularly if it's a referral and it's the same thing with staff. If someone refers a staff member to come work for us and we're growing, four new starters in Queensland last Tuesday after Easter holidays. More coming, so we're growing rapidly. But if someone refers someone to me, like I'll have a proper conversation with them, give them the time of day. And that's worth more to me than potentially like a someone, know. coming off seat or something like that. the thing for me is that, if someone prefers you, do the right thing, go ahead. Yeah. Mate, I've said it a thousand times in this podcast, but I love everything you're about Ash, mate. You are like the epitome of trust. I think that underpins everything you do. I think that is- you got, mate, to be honest, is your and what you trust. In the end. And also as well, as you know, it's a very small industry. Yeah. people know everyone. And I think, you know, as I said before, who do the wrong thing, everyone will tell everyone. If you do the right thing, don't tell anyone. Yeah. You know what mean? So it's very much you're only as good as you last situation you've been in. So it's freaking true, man. Yeah. Yeah. So you, you've to hold yourself to it accountable. And it's just, yeah. And it's cool though. It's like, you know, even though you've got competitors, Who cares? There's a few builders that know, sales managers that I know that, you know, mates with and that's cool. We play in a battlefield, but mates behind closed doors. So, yeah, that's pretty fun as well, think, too. And that's where the fun comes in. It's like, we all, we're all competing for the same clients, but, you know, best man wins. But I think as well, it's like, everyone's got their own, you know, is it said? I say no to clients because they're not the right fit for us. And I just know it. And that was interesting. know, and I think that's not, yeah, that's not normal. I that's not normal. My boss probably wouldn't like to hear that, but I think that, you know, there's a, there's strategy there. Yeah. And, think your boss would love to hear that. You'd probably tell them anyway, but you know, like, think it's like, I honestly, Ash, like the, honesty, the, the way you've approached this information you've given. I think he's critical. think there should be a lot of builders out there that should listen to everything he said. I don't want to talk about myself and I am not Glenville Hines, but like the same thing when we did Avondale, when I did Avondale sort of thing, I took whatever deal I could take. Can you build it? Yeah, sure. That thing's not even buildable. Nothing's not even buildable, but we'll try. as I say, think if you run it past the right people, you know, we've got some pretty crazy houses coming out of the ground. Um, yeah, one of those things like it's more the client, right? Like you've got some clients where you just want to go above and beyond for them. So it may not be something that you would traditionally do, they, really want it. And you know, they're to do the right thing. And, know, sometimes you might say, look, never done it before. Um, but we'll give it a go, you know, we're confident we can do it. If it wouldn't be, it wouldn't say yes. Um, But yeah, we'll do it for you. They love it. So it's, you pick your balance. I love it. Yeah. Well, mate, I think we, we're definitely going to do part two. Um, this has been an hour and a bit, no, I might ask you one last question if you don't mind, Ash, but I'm going to get you back on and, you know, I've got a cohost few spots open. If you ever want to jump on, I'd love you on, um, to do more stuff with me. Oh, mate, you, you like, the really, uh, you know, I'm an old dog. I'm half Asian, so I look younger, but I'm older than you. And, um, lot older than you. And, um, you know, Ash, like I've talked to a lot of people in the industry now of all sorts of ages and ranges and things like that. And I always see the old school guys. They're some really good old school guys. I've got a soft spot for them. They're really good. And there's some really good ones. Like I said, Anthony Blackshore, and there's some guys that are really, really good. The Phil Barrett's of the world and they're quite logical and good in that. But I probably haven't met someone of your caliber around your age. that sort of thing and not that age is a thing, but like we need more up and coming great people in this industry. think to change the way we do things and think about things. think we're going to be, you are going to raise, I can tell like, like the good builder serves you nothing. You know what you're doing. I'm going to ask you this question, but it doesn't, it serves you nothing. You know what you're doing. You serve us in terms of being able to display to our community. These are the things you should think about. This is what good building looks like. So I love it, man. I think we need more people like you in our industry. No worries. I'm telling the truth, man. I think that if we have more people that are thinking like you in this industry, we're going to have a good one and we're going to have less problems, we're to have more trust. And we just simply are going to raise the bar. Like we just simply are, man. there's everything that you do. Like, listen, I know you don't have to listen to yourself, but if you did, which you do, like freaking hell man, everything you do raises the bar. Right now, raises the bar. I'm probably going to, there's going to be a few articles out of this and I'm just going to tell builders, this is what you should do. A bit of a list. Anyway, but I have one more question for you. I'm not scared to say it on the pod. I think you're an amazing dude. I, I, I, I've actually, I've actually, what Glenfield does and I've actually the way you do business and the way you build. think it's amazing. my last question actually is that, know, we called the good builder. As I said, all the clues are within the podcast, but what do you think succinctly? makes a good builder, do you think? I'm not good at succinct. I mean, I've kind of mentioned it before, but I really do think it's, I don't know if it's been said before, like do what you say you're to do. Yep. Because as I said before, like the trust, you only get one chance to earn trust. Yeah. You know, and it's like, it's like lighting a match, right? It's there, but once it's out, it's out. Yeah. You know, you can't light that match again. Trust is the same. If you break someone's trust, they, it's you know, almost impossible to get back. I love it. I think, like I said to you, doing the good builder, you can talk about a thousand things that makes a good builder, but I think it does simply come back to some really, I said it during the podcast, some really simple things. for me, as I'm doing this journey, I think it's trust and respect. I think you embody everything around trust and respect. think Glenville does obviously as well. I think it's cool, man. Like I think If you just have those traits or whatever you call those things in your mind every day when you're doing what you do and building out there, you're going to win and you're to raise the bar. mate, think you to You know what I mean? Mate, this was very cool. Um, once again, thank you to Ash for all this time and the tour of this amazing facility. We'll put up a few pictures and things, but man, honestly, I was blown away by that. podcast. I don't say that often at the end, but I really was blown away in terms of, thought I knew you and I didn't. I knew you were a great man, but you're a better man than I thought you were. And not that that matters, but just the way you go about things is exceptional. Not many are talking about it in that way. We try and talk about it in that way, but I think you just made it practical. So I'm gonna steal it all. I'm gonna write articles. I'm gonna put content out there. I think there's a lot of clues in what you did, mate. So congratulations. I wish you all the success. yeah, we'll see you back on, Sounds good. See if we can shake hands over these computers. Let's do it. Thanks, mate. You're elected. That was it, Ash. Mate.