Latest / The Discussion Podcast / From Chip-Shop Scribbles to Global Portraits: Stanley Chow’s Creative Journey

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From Chip-Shop Scribbles to Global Portraits: Stanley Chow’s Creative Journey · The Discussion Podcast

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So today on the Late Late Lunch Show, I'm delighted to be joined by the illustrator,
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the artist, the creator, and former Ultringham resident, Stanley Chow. Stanley, how are you?
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I'm good, thank you. It's nice to be here.
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It's nice to be able to chat about Ultringham things.
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Now you've come into province a little you've obviously been in province but
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there's been a lot more about you recently just with the andy burnham stuff
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that you've been doing but but your life actually started back in in ultingham some some years ago,
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yeah well well i was born in women's hospital but but my parents had a trip
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shop in in ultingham on on um greenwood street you know where the market is,
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yeah that's where i grew up that's my those were my first seven or eight years
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before we moved to Marple in Stockport.
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But yeah, no, I remember those days really fondly in, you know.
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And do you ever come back to the town at all?
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I come back now and again, you know, there's a, there's a place called,
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um, that's on the high street called Wallyow Chow. They've got a load of my pictures.
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So yeah, so they, so I've been back just to kind of say hello to that guy,
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you know, who, who is Wallyow Chow.
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But, you know, I haven't been back to watching it as much as I like,
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though I still love the town very much.
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Have you ever considered just some of the cultural, artistic,
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musical people who've been associated with it, with the town?
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You know, the Smiths, for example, have a linkage to the town?
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Oh, yeah, I do remember that, yeah. I mean, again, I know the Stone Roses as
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well, you know, but yeah, I've done pictures of the Stone Roses and...
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And this and the smiths i mean like in fact like you know i spend a lot of time,
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in a place called night and day in in town and you know you guys we used to
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see johnny marr a lot there you see because i was i was friend with his manager
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well like joe moss one of his,
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earlier managers you know he was a,
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but yeah we've seen a lot a lot in there you know it was quite nice,
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now i i've i've seen it on somewhere where you describe yourself as an illustrator,
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And now in the, in the, uh.
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Sort of the breadth of different aspects of art, uh, how would you define an
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illustrator versus an artist or a painter?
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How do you find an illustrator?
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Okay. Well, the way I would define it is, is that an artist does work for themselves
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and illustrator does work for somebody else.
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That's essentially the way I, I define it, the two.
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So, you know, I am both, you know, but ultimately, like I kind of trained to
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be an illustrator. That's essentially what, that's, that's where my buzz is.
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My buzz is actually doing art for other people.
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When people ask me to do this, that is, and I, and I do art for them,
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that's essentially kind of, and it's also more of a communication tool.
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You know, you kind of, um, it, it's a, an explainer, you feel me?
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You kind of, um, and, but essentially art is, art is something you do for yourself.
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It doesn't matter what people think it's very self-indulgent where,
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where being an illustrator, it's, you know, you, you're, you're working to other
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people, other people's needs.
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So I've read somewhere that you used to be scribbling little drawings on, on the chip shop paper.
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Your mom does chip shop. Yeah, that was pretty much my, that was my only thing
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I did, you know, like, you know, back in the day in the chip,
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in the chip shop, didn't really have any toys.
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And the minute I could pick up, pick up a pen, that's all I,
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all I, all I wanted to do apparently was just kind of give me chip paper, give me a pen.
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It was like a lad books pen you know those little red lad books pens yes yes
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the bench hub ones yeah my dad was always in the bucket you see so we've been
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bringing these little red pens so so yes,
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so yeah so that was um that was my childhood really just kind of you know like
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my parents were working in a ship shop,
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they'll put me in the back put me on the chair on my high chair or whatever
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here's here's here's some paper here's a pen just draw and that's all i did,
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and was there like history of people in your family have being artistic or was
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that gene in in the chai family,
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well it's hard to say well.
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I think it's i think it is further down the line but like but my dad never talks
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about him or or them or her or whatever but i do have a cousin who's quite a
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famous comic artist in in hong kong,
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and like so so you know so so if you,
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if you follow the path back it must have started somewhere maybe three or four generations,
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back you know but but there's no kind of there's not something really talks
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about really you know my dad did have a creative gene in him he i mean he wanted
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to it was a tailor before he came over to england in hong kong you know so he
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was an apprentice tailor that's what he wanted to be,
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and like um i guess he's i guess he had like like designs on coming over to
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england becoming a tailor and whatnot but,
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That didn't quite happen, you know, like back in the back of the days.
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Like if you're like a Chinese immigrant, you either end up working in a laundry,
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or working in a takeaway or a restaurant.
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Can I ask, did you feel that as a young lad growing up here?
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Did you feel that, I don't know, the possible way that people might have perceived you?
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To be honest with you, when I was young, no. I think like my parents did a lot
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of protecting me in that sense, but also like, you know, I felt,
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I don't know, it's like, I don't think I did, you know, I felt.
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I tell you what's weird, I felt white when I was growing up in Old Tringham,
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you know, it was like, it didn't,
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You know, I didn't feel different. Yeah. Well, that different anyway.
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I mean, I guess when I was older, when I left Orchengham, that's when the differences,
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you know, become something.
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I do remember, actually, you know, I remember secondary school was difficult
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in that sense, but I was living when at primary school, nobody cares about that
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kind of thing. You know, you're just a young kid.
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You know, but when kids grow up and you're in secondary school,
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that's when people start, that's when differences start becoming in the powering, you know.
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And you just weren't at any secondary school. You were at one of the,
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you know, the regional, you were Kings, weren't you, in Magosfield?
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Yeah, I went to Kings of Magosfield, you know.
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It's the only entrance exam I passed. And with that, I passed it,
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you're going there, son.
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Okay, fine, you know. So, yeah. Were they good at, I mean, what I was interested in is,
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from from those scribbles and that drawings on the fish and chip shop paper,
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i where did become the trigger moment which is actually this could be something i could do for my life,
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well like you know like even from the age of five six i knew that was what i
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wanted to do you know and i feel like and i felt when i got to secondary school
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i had the backing of my on my art teacher i mean like.
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Like, whether he believed in me or not, it doesn't even matter.
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But the fact that he did kind of, like, encourage me to no end is the bit where
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he really helped me, really.
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You know, I mean, there was times when I wanted to quit school,
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but he actually encouraged me to stay in school.
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You know, there's times, I didn't even want to go to art school after I finished,
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you know, normal school. But he just
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encouraged me, look, if you go to art school, it'll be better for you.
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You know what I mean? You know, he actually said to me, look,
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you can actually go and find work now if you want to. You're good enough at that age.
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But like, but the point is, is like, you, you need to grow up and mature as a, as a human being.
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And you can't do that in the real world whilst, whilst trying to find,
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trying to find work as an artist, you know, it's easy to kind of be,
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be more mature after art school and then, and then, and then sell your way as
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them, you know, that's a, you have a better chance of survival,
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if you know, if you know what I mean.
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Back in the 70s and 80s, that creative pathway was not as well signalled in
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schools, unless you had a particular sponsor in school who believed in you and could help you.
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It wasn't a typical pathway that a school, certainly a secondary school,
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grammar school, but like the King's, would have naturally taken you on, you don't think?
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No, it's not even at all the pathway you'd expect from a second-generation immigrant.
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You know it's like i mean so i had these two things against me but but but i
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guess somewhere in me i just had total self-belief as much as anything else
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you know and that kind of essentially was what kind of um carried me,
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you know like to what i'm doing now really you know it was um.
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I i didn't i didn't even give myself a plan b you know it was it was it was
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this or nothing really you know i mean i i was pretty sure i didn't want to
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work in my dad's takeaway way, that was pretty much like that.
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That was almost the kind of like, um, the, the, the, the, the,
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the fuel, the fuel to kind of make me not to become an artist more. You know what I mean?
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Do you know, it's funny cause you know, I grew up a son of a postman and,
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you know, my dad did really well and went through the ranks,
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but I, I remember saying to him, I don't want a job that gets me up at five
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o'clock in the morning or half past four in the morning.
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And and he went and rather than saying don't take the mick out of my job you
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know he said yes you're absolutely right he said you go and find it,
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and then when i get my job you know and i'm traveling every monday and i'm getting
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the first flight out or i'm getting the first train and i'm up at five o'clock
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in the morning first thing he said to me was what you said you weren't going to do this.
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But yeah you some you do sometimes need that driver of you know and it's not
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to be disrespectful. It's just basically, I want to move that step on.
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I think maybe the Chinese and the Irish have a similar cultural trait there.
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Yeah, no, I, I, I won't disagree, you know, but it's just something,
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I mean, it's something that happens so rarely as well, actually,
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like amongst our community.
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So, so somebody has to kind of shine a light, you know, yeah, exactly.
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So you, you go through school, you're at, where did you study art, Stanley?
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I studied art at Manchester, Manchester Metropolitan first, doing art foundation.
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And then I kind of didn't do too well there because I didn't do too well there.
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All my kind of like applications for big universities, just kind of,
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just kind of like didn't happen. So I ended up in a place called Swindon.
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I hated it. It was kind of like, well, okay, I'll, I'll, I'll do these two years.
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Then when I, and then I'm going to just come back and, you know,
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and get on with, you know, do what I do now, you know? But yeah.
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My daughter did a foundation year in order to try out as many different genre,
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of art as possible, so that you could land on where you wanted to be.
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So it was quite a good job, but it does extend the time you're going to spend
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in further education before you get a degree.
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It does, but it was an interesting year for me.
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I mean, I enjoyed it because I met so many new people, but unfortunately,
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I just didn't get on with it.
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Click on click with the tutors you know i don't really know what it was but
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you know i had one tutor said to me it's not like look basically stanley you
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know good you might as well just work in in the tescos and i was like okay.
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It's like mate you know this isn't what you expect from someone who's meant
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to be teaching you know so but but the problem was is like because of this is
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like i got sent bad reports when i was applying for the bigger bigger universities
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so therefore Like, you know,
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what, what, you know, the, the, the report that went to the university reflected on my,
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on how well it did like in the interviews basically i i'm i don't know much
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about swindon but i sort of roughly know the area i i it wouldn't strike me
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as being a hotbed of creativity or inspiration but what was it like.
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It was it was it was like stockport really you know it's just kind of it's like
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stockport with a bit more racists you may know it was like yeah that was like
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And that's, that's, that's, yeah, that's pretty much what I found really, you know, it was a,
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but you know, I mean, like Diana Dawes was from, from Swindon,
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so, so was Billy Piper, you know, so, um, so, but, but yeah,
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you know, yeah, there's not much positive,
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positives I can say about Swindon, or then I was there for two years and I couldn't
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wait to get out of it, but, you know what I mean?
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So was it there that you made the decision to focus on narration and focus on.
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I guess it's profiles or portrait type stuff or when did that happen?
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Oh God, I thought the portrait just came, I mean, the thing was that I was always doing portraits.
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Anyway, I was doing pictures of mates from school age.
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I mean, that was always my thing, you know, but admittedly when I went to art
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school, that kind of just disappeared.
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It kind of got taught out of me, if you know what I mean, you know, it was like,
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it was like, so I think that's where the conflicts for me and an art school
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happened, where like, where the main thing that I really wanted to do,
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I'd never got the opportunity to do.
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We got beaten out of me, you know, we got kind of like.
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Like the art school is very conceptual based and I'm not really a concept,
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I'm not really a conceptually based illustrator, you know, I'm more style.
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I mean, like, like my motto at the time was I'm style, I'm more style and no
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substance, you know, so, so, so, but anyway, but the thing was just like,
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I, like, well, funny enough, whilst I was up Swindon, I was getting work anyway.
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I was getting work from, from the local council and then I was getting work
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from Oxford University Press, which is like quite close to Swindon.
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So I was getting work and when I left Swindon, I was getting little drips and
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drops of work. I ended up working for like magazines and stuff.
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I was mainly doing kind of like school textbooks. And then I went on to do kind
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of illustrations for magazines, like, you know,
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the Sunday supplements and stuff like that, you know, and then I ended up doing,
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like women's magazines doing yoga poses,
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and stuff like that you mean and all these kind of things all these things went
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like you know okay i can illustrate them but i don't want it a bit illustrating
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this you know so after about seven or eight years doing doing this kind of stuff
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we kind of dawn on me is like,
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i need if i'm carrying on doing this i'm just going to quit you know this ain't
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this isn't the journey i want,
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what i want to do you know so so i just kind of had a rethink about,
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what i what i What I loved about art,
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and I just remember, I actually loved doing portraits, you know.
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So I just basically stopped everything, you know, stopped everything,
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and I said, look, even said to my agent,
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I'm going to start doing portraits portrait portrait is what I love.
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And that's what I want to focus on for the rest of my career.
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And was this the late eighties or early nineties or roughly?
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Well, I'm mid nineties now, you know, mid to late nineties.
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It was like, well, no, no, no, this was actually early 2000s.
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I mean, I'd already been kind of like being, being a, I'd already been kind
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of doing it for like self-employed for almost 10 years.
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And then I was like, right, I needed, I needed a change. And then portraits
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is what I'm going to do. And then.
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When I thought about portraits, I was like, I need to put portraits in a context,
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you know, because I was hanging around the normal course all the time.
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He was like, right, I'm going to kind of like turn them into gig posters, basically.
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It was like, you know, there was a gap in the market, you know what I mean?
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Like for me to kind of like do my portraits, but also turn them into gig posters.
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And that's where I started doing well the first the first big band I did was,
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was like a band called I Am Clue,
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So they had a gig at night and day and basically I said to them,
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look, I know you're doing a gig at night and day, can I do you a poster?
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So it was a portrait of all three of them, I included, at night and day.
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And it kind of went down really well and that gave me the confidence just to
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kind of try out and do more.
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The thing that strikes me about the cultural sector, art, music, etc.
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Is that you might learn the techniques and the technical side of what you do,
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but you don't often get told and taught about the business and the business
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management of being an artist.
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And I'm guessing that a lot of that came from your family background and the
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entrepreneurialism of your family.
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Possibly, but don't get me wrong. I'm not a good businessman.
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You mean I probably can't. You know, I probably, there are people who look at
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my, my model and, and, and said, you should have made more money than you have done already. But.
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You had the, you had the self-confidence to know what you wanted to actually do and stuck at us.
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But, but that's, you know, but that's not really.
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Yeah, but that's not, that's not business though, so to speak,
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you know what I mean? No, no. Yeah, I guess it took a while to kind of work
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out how to, um, how to kind of like, uh.
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Commercialize? Yeah, commercialize. I was lucky because I had an agency that
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they were doing all that, all those things for me, really, you know,
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and this, and this was a time before social media, you see.
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So i did have someone kind of like do all the all the running around for me
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really as well as having to kind of like networking and stuff you know i mean
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that was a networking in pubs and bars and and gigs is basically,
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the the the secrets of my successor i guess you know and you you were using
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some early cad computer stuff weren't you,
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no no well i'm still using the same program now,
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that i was doing 20 years ago you know it's still adobe illustrator but like
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an earlier version you know right i mean i was i was a painter i was a painter
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and an ink drawer you know but earlier on but then,
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but then it got to a point where my dad says you need to you need to look to
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the future and he bought me an apple mac wow and like and i was in my mid-20s
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dad he you know this was a time when i was still struggling.
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He said you know you need to look you know you need to look forward here you
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know and like and i had a computer for a year not knowing what to do with it.
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And then finally kind of like, okay, let's turn this thing on, see what I can do.
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You know, cause I did, I was quite, I was quite, I wasn't very,
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what's the word? Tech savvy at the time. I was, I was, I was, I was keen on, on.
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On staying with paint and stuff you know but then it's funny because we we you
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know i'm just five years older than you but we were at that era where,
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the tech we had as kids was like color 64 type stuff you know and and it was
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for a specific purpose and you couldn't really use it in a,
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open way you know you couldn't and and unless you had a program that was that
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that was it and then suddenly things just started to go so much quicker in in the 90s and,
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you know so i guess in some ways we had to learn on the job very very quickly didn't we suddenly,
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well i guess when i was looking up because i was just still getting work whilst
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i was getting work painting i was still i was i was that's why i was learning how to use,
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like illustrator basically so but yeah but ultimately then when emails started
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coming in and stuff like that and when the worldwide web,
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was happening, you realized you had to change because, because basically there's a time when like,
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you used to be given like a month to get a job done for life or magazine.
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And that month all of a sudden turned into a week, you know,
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because everything just moved faster. You know, yeah.
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I mean, what used to be one month deadlines are like one week deadlines.
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And then as time progresses, like all the one week deadlines are like three day deadlines.
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So it was kind of like, um, so that was what we had to get used to really.
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You're known for a certain style of illustration, um, and, and,
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and you, you've got that, uh, that is your, your, your style.
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Do you ever do anything that just is almost completely the opposite to freestyle
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or, or, or do you just, you stay within what you know now works for you?
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I, I do not only get experiment, you know, and like, um, and then,
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and then like, um, and then every now and again, I'll, I'll,
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I'll put it out on Instagram ground for people to see and then you and then
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like five hours later it's like zero likes,
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which tells you tells you that you know you know people don't like what i do
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you know but like but i still persist you know,
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i do have a lot of little kind of other styles that i that i kind of dip into
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every now and again when time allows me basically or or when the or when the
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right project comes along i can i have i have other,
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strings for my bow and all the styles that i can kind of like call up on if,
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a different style needs to be used because I mean like obviously I'm known for
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my portraiture but like I can't do portraiture for every single.
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The job I do, you mean, you know, so, so it's a case of like,
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there's something different if something else is needed.
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Two of the, I guess, the very topical portraits you've done recently is Mr.
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Trump in, or there was the balloon Trump thing, which, um, I,
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I, but that was, that was done as a collab, was that right?
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Or it's a collaboration with a photographer. So basically it was a New York
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times cover and, and they, they, they basically called me like two o'clock in
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the morning. I remember this. It says, like, are you interested in doing this?
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We have an idea. Are you interested in doing this? And the idea was to basically
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illustrate Donald Trump and basically print and print that illustration onto a balloon.
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And then, and basically once that, and that balloon was actually made.
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And then the photographer actually took the, took the actual photograph of the balloon.
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So, because we had no idea what the balloon was going to look like when it was
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blown up, we had to do about 50 versions of Donald Trump.
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Like make them all and basically pick the best one that looks that that worked
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best for the to life of the contours that naturally come with a balloon almost yeah yeah.
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And i i guess like him and you know,
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he he has certain features and characteristics that make him easier to explode if you don't mean,
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ah yeah and i know but but having said that but with my style though i I,
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I generally don't kind of go for the obvious things.
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I, I, I'm quite restrained in terms of, I'm more of a flatterer than a,
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than a, than making someone's big nose look bigger or big ears look bigger. I getcha. I getcha.
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Yeah. No, go ahead. No, no, yeah, yeah. So basically that that's my,
23:34
that's my, that's my MO really.
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I mean, I don't kind of like the, the, that's the distinction between what I
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do and what a lot of other caricatures do is like a lot of other caricatures
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is generally focus on all the, all the, all the person's bad bits.
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Well, I, I, I guess there's always, there's a shape to Chubb's hair, like it or not.
23:55
And it's, it's actually quite angular and that sometimes that seems to fit with
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the lines that you draw. Oh sure. Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah. In that sense. Yes.
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Absolutely. You know, he's, it was a, it was a, it was easy to fit that,
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those kind of like straight lines and curves that you could, yes, that was a,
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They work within my style quite easily. Now, I know art historian,
24:17
and I think I'd probably be very limited to drawing my stick man, but.
24:22
When I look at your work, I feel like it's got a link back to some of the fifties
24:26
and sixties type styles that were,
24:30
slightly block, if you like, like, and the, the colors were very vivid and,
24:35
and very real is, is there a link to that or is, is that an unfair representation?
24:42
Oh, well, you know, I'd, I'd say a lot, I mean, like there are two kind of,
24:47
uh, there's one artists, one, there's a few artists from the sixties who,
24:50
who, who I'm, who I'm really, you know, who I really admire,
24:53
like Jack Kirby, who's a comic artist.
24:55
He, he, he's a guy that did all the Marvel stuff. His, his sixties and fifties
25:00
and sixties stuff was, he's a massive influence on why I do.
25:02
I mean, it is, it is a case of like, he was a, he was a great simplifier in,
25:07
in line and shape, you see, which is why I really admire his work.
25:09
And then there's a guy called, uh, Al Hirschfeld, who was a,
25:13
he was an American caricature artist and, um,
25:16
and yeah, they, they, you know, they've got very simple shapes,
25:20
basically, you know, well, simple lines, simple line patterns and stuff,
25:24
you know, it's, it's, it's, it's a simple, they, they, they try to do things
25:28
in the simplest way possible, basically.
25:30
And I think that's, that's where I kind of, where my style is,
25:34
is similar is like, I try to kind of, you know, you know.
25:40
Just, just get rid of all the bits that you don't need, you know,
25:43
it's like, it just needs to look like the person it needs to be,
25:47
but like, but like, I don't have to do all the, all the,
25:50
all the, the worry lines or, or, or anything like that, you know,
25:53
I might add a few in, but I don't need to do, if it looks like them,
25:56
I don't need to add these bits in.
25:57
It's, they're unnecessary, you know, unnecessary distractions,
26:01
you know, I just need to get the core, the core bits is making it look like
26:04
the person it has to do. And then that's all it needs to be from,
26:08
but for me, that's to finish the illustration.
26:10
How important is it to you to map out, to illustrate, to narrate and to keep
26:17
a historical reference and add to the conversation that's going on around the world?
26:24
Things today you know what you know whether it be political cultural whatever
26:30
happened to be do you find do you find you're naturally drawn to that or uh
26:35
that's a wave you pick up on or does it not even reference,
26:39
yeah i think i think it is you know because it's so part of you know i mean look,
26:44
you turn on the news and stuff you know and,
26:47
and it all provokes a reaction you know,
26:50
I like sport, so when my favourite football team wins, I like to do something
26:56
to acknowledge that my football team's with. I mean, illustration, it's emotional.
27:01
So when I do a portrait of somebody, it's triggered by something that I've liked or that's moving on TV.
27:09
I was going to ask you, Stanley, has United moved you that much recently?
27:15
Well, look, they're starting to move me. you know so yeah well i i know what you mean,
27:21
i i i've had a season ticket since uh 2016 and i was a home i was a home and
27:28
away mostly away during the 90s,
27:31
but yeah it's it's been a long drive really hasn't it you started at a bad time,
27:38
i started i did i started about 2003 or four so but yeah yeah well you know,
27:47
as I think the good time they're coming back soon you know yeah and who actually
27:53
just on that who in the team at the moment do you think has the best features
27:57
outline dramatic draw line or whatever,
28:01
blends with you blends with the work you're doing oh god that's good oh yeah
28:07
Harry Maguire he does doesn't he yeah you just you can you know I can close
28:12
my eyes, I can see the Harry Maguire already without,
28:16
I could probably illustrate a picture of Harry Maguire with my eyes closed.
28:20
He does. It's like his head is hurt like a helmet in a way.
28:27
And his jawline is quite striking. But you know what?
28:32
I like, in fact, I would almost say I love Harry Maguire because I love the
28:36
fact that he's turned it around from being somebody who almost just went to
28:41
pieces and has come back stronger again.
28:44
No, I think there's definitely a lot of respect. A lot of respect. A lot of respect.
28:51
Well, I also believe it's like someone told me at United.
28:56
His shirt sold is one of the most sold shirts at the club, which is no surprise, really. Yeah.
29:05
I don't know about you. You've met probably more of the players than I've ever
29:09
done, but do you still get that sort of moment of being like a kid when you
29:12
meet like a professional footballer,
29:15
you know what i it was it's weird this is actually it's kind of stopped now,
29:21
but like um but but and the reason why it stopped is because because when you
29:25
meet him now i'm old enough to be the granddad i know you know it's like.
29:31
Yeah how old are you yeah you know like i'm 34 years older than you yeah you
29:36
know it's like how can i be like you know but,
29:40
yeah it does change your whole relationship your relationship with the club
29:43
doesn't change but you you can't be quite as starry eyed about a young winger
29:48
as you might have been once in part of the time,
29:51
me and brian robson oh my god bro you know like i mean even gary bailey and
29:57
i'm like i'm like lou mccurry like but anyone kind of like post them is like,
30:02
you know i'm kind of more like you know i see them as my peers more than else
30:06
Do you know, I only live up the road from Ultrigan Football Club.
30:10
And when we bought this house first in the noughties,
30:14
I was doing the front garden badly. I'm not a gardener, but I was, I was out there.
30:18
I was covered in a bit of muck and this car drove up and these lads got out
30:23
and they were going down the road to Alti football club.
30:26
And one of them came to the gate and said, excuse me, mate, where's Alti football
30:32
club? Actually, if you go straight down the road there.
30:34
And it was Giggsie, Gary Neville. I think Scolese was there as well. And one other.
30:42
And you know i had to admit i almost went weak at the knees you know yeah.
30:48
You know i met cantona once on dean's gate got his autograph and that was that was aura moment,
30:56
you know and you don't get many of those anymore i have changed i i feel like
31:00
a granddad to the team more than anything else now but but we could talk about
31:05
manchester and that's a whole different podcast,
31:09
you're a very established, you're an international artist.
31:11
You, you, you get work mostly on commission basis or how does it work today?
31:16
Yeah. Well, yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah. It's like, um, go,
31:18
yeah, I just wait for someone to give me a phone call.
31:19
So it's like, what do you, you know, to tell me what they want illustrating.
31:22
And, and that's how it happens. You know, at the moment, like now,
31:26
I, I mean, I do a lot of work for United We Stand fans, Andy Mitton and the boys.
31:32
I do, I do their covers now, but doing that for like four years now.
31:34
That's interesting. I can see that now. I can see that in the, the front covers.
31:39
Yeah, I've been doing that and, you know, I've been working for the New York for like 15 years now.
31:44
I mean, I, I mean, I don't get as much work in the magazine now,
31:47
but I still kind of get work doing, doing the staff portraits basically.
31:50
And that's, and they're all used on their bylines online and stuff, you know?
31:54
So it's the case of, yeah, anyone who wants their portrait done.
31:59
If they can afford my fees, then they can have a portrait done, basically.
32:03
And it is wonderful. You can work completely internationally from wherever you're
32:07
based, basically. It's New York, no problem.
32:12
How do you find Manchester today as a creative hub? Because when I first came
32:19
to the city in the 90s, I studied up in Edinburgh, and obviously I came from
32:24
Northern Ireland in the 70s and 80s.
32:26
And we hardly knew Northern Ireland because you just couldn't go to parts of
32:30
it. So you never really felt part of the city.
32:34
Edinburgh always felt a little bit too hoity-toity, a wee bit too above me.
32:39
And then I came to Manchester and I felt a swagger and I felt a vibe and I felt
32:45
an energy that came from, I thought, a working-class base, really.
32:51
I think it probably is, I should say, to a degree. but but today i see a more
32:57
gentrified manchester and it worries me sometimes that actually where are the
33:04
the johnny mars where are.
33:07
The the you know morrisies coming from where are the stone roses coming from
33:12
and where are the artists coming from from almost the streets what do you think about that,
33:18
well i think they're there you know like i think they'll live in the suburbs
33:23
basically you know and that's and that's the thing it's um i mean yeah,
33:28
in the city right true and they're done wrong it's like i still feel manchester
33:31
has the energy i mean the energy that you can feel that anything is possible
33:34
you know but i'm guessing like,
33:36
you know the the thing is i i because i know lots of musicians who are who are
33:41
working like like um my daughter's lots of friends who are musicians,
33:45
i can see them i can see it all happening you know.
33:49
So, so yeah, but it's not, it's, it's more disparate, I guess,
33:53
where, where back in the day where you can just literally hop into,
33:56
go to Northern Quarter, so you can see it literally happening there.
33:59
The, the scene was happening, but I guess the scenes are, are the more kind
34:03
of smaller, smaller pockets then.
34:06
It's a bit like it's made up now of villages. The Northern Quarter is a village
34:11
and there's different, and then even the towns are, are hubs or villages of the city now.
34:17
Yeah. I mean, look, you know, like my kids are chorn high and like,
34:21
you know, but all their friends are, are, you know, they're rehearsing in bands,
34:24
you know, like when they get the chance, you know? So it's like,
34:27
so I know it's, I know it's happening. I know it's not stopped.
34:29
It's whether they, whether they move on, onto, you know, onto becoming actual
34:35
pop stars or not, you know, but like, but, but the weird thing about pop stars
34:38
is like, it's not as parochial as it used to be.
34:42
You can be anywhere really, you know, and, and it's like from anywhere,
34:45
but where, you know, where, where back in the day, we used to be quite proud
34:49
to be mank mank and proud.
34:52
And then, and then nowadays nobody really cares about where you're from anymore.
34:58
You know, but that doesn't stop them from being creative though.
35:01
You mean, it's still, and it doesn't stop the fact that there's still a scene
35:05
here, you know, and I feel, and I think like, I think, yeah,
35:09
there's definitely still plenty of people making music, not just musicians,
35:13
but artists doing, doing their stuff, you know.
35:17
It's all happening, but not just kind of, but not kind of,
35:21
concentrated in the, in a certain area in a while.
35:24
And I, I guess the fact you've got the BBC up here, you've got ITV and those
35:28
television, but you, you, you do have more artistic hubs as well.
35:33
My, I, I know in Leeds and even on, on the villages around Leeds,
35:38
you've got lots of cultural centers, you've got lots of spaces where exhibitions are taking place.
35:43
It just feels like it's all a bit more underground at the moment.
35:47
It doesn't feel like we should about it.
35:49
Yeah. you're not wrong i think it's it's on the ground because because i think,
35:55
this city just swallows everything up if you mean you know it's like there's so much going on,
36:00
nothing can actually really kind of like be like make a massive difference you know that's the yeah,
36:06
that's the thing you know it's like it's like tv now you know it's like nobody
36:10
will hardly watches bbc one two three and four because because we have so much,
36:16
hundreds of different tv channels you know it's like back in the day it was
36:19
like you know you know 20 million people watching east enders you don't get
36:23
25 watching east enders now you mean you know,
36:27
it's not on it's still on bbc one and it's uh but just because it's the sheer
36:30
amount of choice that we have now that's why things seem to stay on the ground,
36:36
i want to ask you about pop art and what i mean is that you know you've collaborated
36:41
with the likes of white stripes you've done stuff for them.
36:45
What is it do you think about, and I think also narration is very specific in
36:49
this area, what is it do you think that.
36:53
Keeps the linkage between music and artists, if you like?
36:58
Oh, I don't know. I just think like, well, art and design and music,
37:06
they go hand in hand anyway.
37:07
I mean, it all starts from the actual record itself. You know,
37:12
you're creating a record sleeve. You make the music,
37:16
You can't just pull out on a, on a, on a blank, you know, if,
37:20
if, if you, if you're buying vinyl, you can't just give them a disc with a,
37:23
with a white piece of paper envelope, you mean, and it's like,
37:27
and I feel like, you know, the, the musician wants something visual to kind of at least.
37:34
At least sell the music before they even got the chance to hear it.
37:36
You mean, and I, and, and, and these things, you know, yeah.
37:41
Musicians need us need us artists i think you know just to kind of um because
37:47
otherwise it'd be boring i guess you know here it's like the music on itself just,
37:52
isn't enough i mean yeah however good the music is you know there's millions
37:56
of bands out there who are absolutely brilliant but they've been marketed so
37:59
badly that you're never gonna hear them so,
38:03
it's funny it's one thing i miss about physical final especially album vinyl,
38:08
was that getting that album out and looking at the graphics and looking at the
38:12
photographs you studied it a lot more maybe it's just because we didn't get we didn't buy as many,
38:18
and we didn't consume as much but the thing you did with the white stripes i
38:21
thought it was very clever in both ways in terms of,
38:25
you know distributing the album on a usb different and people get a piece of
38:31
art on that usb stick which is unique it's class No, yeah, definitely.
38:39
I was very honored to be asked to do that. I can't imagine. It came out of the blue, really.
38:44
But it's just one of those things that happened, really. This is going back
38:49
to before when I was doing gig posters.
38:52
I mean, I did a kind of a fan art bootleg gig poster. I put it up on MySpace. And then.
39:01
A few years later, the White Stripes management said,
39:05
Can you, um, can you remove that off my space, please? You know,
39:08
cause it's, um, cause it's not a, it's a fake poster, you know?
39:12
And then it says, yeah, okay. And then it says, oh, but by the way,
39:16
Jack and Meg really want to work with you.
39:18
And that's how the relationship, you know, happened. That's so cool. Did you meet them?
39:24
I didn't get to meet them unfortunately. Cause by the time the album came out,
39:27
I think they're about to tour and like, um, and then they split up,
39:33
you know, the Icky Thump album was their last album.
39:35
Of course, of course So yeah, they never actually got to tour that album Unfortunately,
39:41
Can I ask you about music a little bit?
39:42
I mean, do you have Are you an avid listener? Are you always listening to new
39:48
stuff? Or what's on your iPod or whatever?
39:52
Well, I DJ a lot in town still So that's my kind of I'm moving as a DJ I mean,
39:58
I'm DJing at the New Central Hall this Saturday So yeah, I've always got a key
40:04
in the air for not necessarily new music,
40:07
old music that I've not heard before is probably the best way to.
40:10
You know, there's still a plethora of music from the 70s and 80s that.
40:16
I've never heard before that I'm still kind of trying to find,
40:19
you know, and search out and maybe play out and surprise people.
40:24
That's pretty cool. I've got a mate that I was in a band with.
40:27
He used to be a guitarist and he's now doing DJ sets. And I went on Mixcloud
40:32
the other night and actually managed to watch as well as listen to one of his DJ sets.
40:37
Oh, really? Cool. And what I love about that is now, you know,
40:42
back in the 80s, the ability to even record what you were doing as a band was minimal, right? Sure.
40:50
And to distribute it, there was no chance. now you've got all that.
40:56
At your fingertips in a way i totally agree which is probably why no one stands
41:01
out anymore this is this is the whole on the ground thing you know because everyone can do it you see,
41:05
have we reached that point where of saturation do you think is it too easy for
41:10
people to make stuff whether it be music whether it be poetry whether it be
41:15
books where and and have have we lost the ability to,
41:21
to see through the, the, the, the volume, if you like?
41:25
I think, well, don't get me wrong. I think, I think the fact that all,
41:28
everyone can actually do all this stuff is, is amazing. I mean, it is.
41:31
People that can express themselves like through, through any artistic way is absolutely amazing.
41:37
And it's like, but yeah, it's, but yeah, the problem is, we probably don't have
41:41
the filter to actually kind of say what's, what's good and bad,
41:44
but I don't even think that's a, there's, there's lots of ways to look at this. You know what I mean?
41:49
So what we do have is like, we
41:51
have very few people that really make it to the top now because of this.
41:56
And it's harder to kind of break out because there's so many people.
42:01
I think that's the only...
42:04
Thing that having so many people can do this, but only the, you know,
42:08
people who are marketed well and who are absolutely exceptional are the ones that are going to,
42:12
you know, break through really, you know, and I think that's the,
42:15
that's the, and, but, but the fact is like, but it also means that other people can do it.
42:20
So, so you can't have it both ways if you mean, you know, you can't have it like less people do it.
42:25
And then, you know, it's a, it's, it's tricky.
42:28
It's just, it's a, i mean it depends who you're trying to please ultimately
42:31
like like for me the the more people i do it and be creative it is good but
42:36
like admittedly i mean like creatives who are doing it professionally,
42:41
and studied it they'll think it's oh god there's too many people doing,
42:45
there's too many people who could take photographs now you know and then and
42:49
then all of a sudden they can take a photograph of an iphone and they're photographers
42:52
you know and there's a lot of that going on where you, you, you,
42:55
you annoy a lot of, you know, you know.
42:59
Photographers who've been working their arse off for years.
43:03
And then you get some whippersnappers really good on an iPhone.
43:05
It takes takes takes a job, you know, but like, but you know,
43:09
but this, but this is the, this is the way of the world.
43:11
I, I'm no studier of hard history, but if I, I think back to say Picasso's time or whatever, right.
43:17
So many of the greats then were not appreciated at the time they were alive.
43:22
It was only subsequently that their art got a value that meant something and it's almost because.
43:30
There weren't any more available that was it right and i i feel this sort of
43:35
thing of dying for your art maybe you have to die before your art actually gets
43:40
properly valued that's that's what my parents used to say.
43:46
You know i guess the people who are who are who are really good and and work that extra mile.
43:53
Well, when I say mile, extra mile, I'd say it's an extra...
43:57
10 miles. You know what I mean? I think the work ethic of people who do well
44:00
is, it's, it's on a, it's on a different scale, I think, from what people think,
44:06
how hard people actually should work, if you know what I mean?
44:09
Yeah. I think people who do well, they really put the hours into a point where
44:13
it's like, it's, it's an obsession really. It's not a fluke.
44:17
Yeah, it's not a fluke, you know, and like, um, and, and, and,
44:21
uh, you know, you can, you can be gifted,
44:23
but to do well, you need to be gifted, be lucky and work your ass off basically
44:27
it's it's fake i'm glad you said that because sometimes people would believe
44:32
that there's some unfair advantages there and no doubt they have an impact but
44:36
ultimately you do have to work hard at anything to to to make a pain so just to wrap up
44:42
i'm i'm interested as to whether you have a,
44:46
a bucket list of people or there's a list in your head of people that you want to want to do
44:53
and and when you're when you are narrating somebody do you need to see them
44:58
in person do you ask them or how does that work actually.
45:02
No i don't have to ask them because like as far as i know there's a rule that
45:05
means that you can't copyright your own face so so so i can draw any face i
45:11
want to without any unless unless somebody thinks it's disparaging basically
45:15
and then they can say it's,
45:17
an insult whatever you mean but like um but uh that's quite handy suddenly in your rule oh yeah,
45:23
so i try not to insult anyone but but also it's like but i'm said that don't
45:28
don't don't hold me to that because it's like because this copyright will copyright
45:31
rule and ip rule change like like every day you mean,
45:35
so but the last time i heard you know no one's told me any different so so hopefully
45:40
no one checks but like but also in in turn of kind of like,
45:44
what was the other question yeah my bucket list I mean my bucket list would
45:48
be to draw the entire my United squad when they win the treble again.
45:55
I tell you what, I would just take the Premiership right now.
45:57
I'm just going to do that, you know?
45:59
Even the Premiership, yeah. Honestly, well, that's almost a nice way. I've got.
46:07
You feel to me like somebody who rolls with the waves, you know?
46:10
You feel like somebody who doesn't worry about diverting from the plan. I don't have a plan.
46:18
Well, there you go. Is that a fair assessment of how you are,
46:21
that you, you basically, you almost wake up every day and think,
46:25
what are we going to do here?
46:26
Well, pretty much so. Like, I mean, like my brother-in-law described me this,
46:30
described me the other day and I said like, um, you're basically,
46:34
you're, you're, you're vibes, man. You just live off, live off vibes.
46:39
Yeah, I guess I kind of do. Cause, cause honestly, I don't know what's,
46:43
I don't know what's going to happen tomorrow or, or, or, or,
46:47
or any other day, basically, you know,
46:49
it's just kind of like what happens, happens, you know, I mean,
46:52
the whole Andy burning thing was a, was, it was a lucky fluke. You know what I mean?
46:57
I had no intention of drawing the, the, the future prime minister and use it
47:01
as a campaign. You know, it was just a very happy accident. That, that, what else?
47:08
This may be hope for you and for the whole lot of us that, uh,
47:12
that, that, that happy accident actually comes through to him taking on,
47:16
on, on the role. Well, look, I I'm well over time with you.
47:19
I really enjoyed just chatting with you about all sorts of stuff and yeah,
47:24
it's, it's, it's, it's cracking. And I, I look forward to seeing the,
47:28
uh, the squad narrated by Stanley.
47:32
I'll tell you what I was telling you, that would probably make my day with Carrick
47:36
right at the moment in the middle of it all.
47:38
I'll send you a copy when it, when it's done.
47:43
I'll hold you to that. I hope I'm just not 99 when it happens, you know?
47:49
No, obviously, you know, I hope it happens more than just once anyway.
47:56
I think good times are coming. I do.
47:59
I'm not optimistic about a lot of things, but somehow, for some reason,
48:02
I put my faith too much on 11 players in red on a Saturday at 3 o'clock,
48:07
you know? We do that every week, though.
48:10
I've been doing it every week for the last 20 years now It's worse than being
48:14
a fool in love It really is Stanley Chai, thank you very much indeed Thank you.