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America in Therapy: Grief, Rage & Staying Sane After Minneapolis (with Phyllis Levitt) · The Living Conversation

• 0:00
  I'm
• 0:00
  Anthony
• 0:00
  Wright
• 0:01
  and
• 0:01
  I
• 0:01
  am
• 0:01
  your
• 0:02
  host
• 0:02
  today
• 0:02
  on
• 0:03
  the
• 0:03
  Living
• 0:04
  Conversation
• 0:04
  with
• 0:04
  my
• 0:05
  co
• 0:05
  host,
• 0:06
  Adam
• 0:06
  Dietz.
• 0:06
  Welcome.
• 0:07
  And
• 0:07
  we
• 0:08
  are
• 0:08
  here
• 0:08
  with
• 0:08
  our
• 0:09
  guest,
• 0:09
  Phyllis
• 0:10
  Levitt.
• 0:11
  Welcome,
• 0:11
  Phyllis.
• 0:12
  Thank
• 0:13
  you
• 0:13
  so
• 0:13
  much
• 0:13
  for
• 0:13
  having
• 0:14
  me.
• 0:14
  I'm
• 0:15
  really
• 0:15
  delighted
• 0:15
  to
• 0:15
  be
• 0:16
  here
• 0:16
  with
• 0:16
  you.
• 0:16
  Thank
• 0:17
  you.
• 0:17
  Well,
• 0:18
  we're
• 0:18
  glad
• 0:19
  to
• 0:19
  have
• 0:19
  you.
• 0:19
  And
• 0:19
  you
• 0:20
  are
• 0:20
  a
• 0:20
  psychotherapist
• 0:21
  and
• 0:21
  you're
• 0:22
  located
• 0:22
  in
• 0:23
  Dallas,
• 0:23
  New
• 0:23
  Mexico,
• 0:24
  is
• 0:24
  that
• 0:24
  right?
• 0:25
  That's
• 0:25
  right.
• 0:26
  And
• 0:26
  you've
• 0:26
  written
• 0:26
  a
• 0:27
  number
• 0:27
  of,
• 0:27
  a
• 0:27
  number
• 0:28
  of
• 0:28
  books
• 0:29
  and
• 0:29
  I
• 0:30
  guess
• 0:30
  the
• 0:31
  main
• 0:31
  one
• 0:31
  is
• 0:32
  America
• 0:33
  in
• 0:33
  Therapy.
• 0:33
  And
• 0:33
  I'm
• 0:34
  very
• 0:34
  curious
• 0:34
  about
• 0:34
  that.
• 0:35
  What
• 0:36
  is
• 0:36
  the
• 0:36
  basis
• 0:36
  of
• 0:37
  your
• 0:38
  psychotherapeutic
• 0:39
  training,
• 0:39
  please?
• 0:39
  Is
• 0:40
  it
• 0:40
  Jungian
• 0:40
  or
• 0:41
  Freudian
• 0:41
  or.
• 0:42
  It's
• 0:43
  really
• 0:43
  a
• 0:43
  psychodynamic
• 0:44
  and
• 0:45
  family
• 0:45
  systems,
• 0:46
  I
• 0:46
  would
• 0:46
  say.
• 0:47
  Yeah.
• 0:48
  And
• 0:49
  you
• 0:49
  work
• 0:49
  with
• 0:49
  people
• 0:49
  that
• 0:50
  have
• 0:50
  been
• 0:50
  in
• 0:51
  trauma.
• 0:53
  I
• 0:53
  think
• 0:53
  inevitably
• 0:54
  any
• 0:54
  psychotherapist
• 0:55
  is
• 0:55
  going
• 0:56
  to
• 0:56
  encounter
• 0:56
  that.
• 0:57
  And
• 0:57
  I've
• 0:57
  worked
• 0:57
  with
• 0:57
  a
• 0:57
  lot
• 0:58
  of
• 0:58
  people
• 0:58
  in
• 0:58
  trauma.
• 0:59
  There's
• 0:59
  a
• 0:59
  lot
• 0:59
  of
• 1:00
  trauma
• 1:00
  and
• 1:01
  dysfunctional
• 1:02
  family
• 1:02
  dynamics
• 1:03
  probably
• 1:03
  in
• 1:04
  the
• 1:04
  world
• 1:04
  today,
• 1:04
  but
• 1:05
  certainly
• 1:05
  in
• 1:06
  many
• 1:06
  places
• 1:07
  in
• 1:07
  America.
• 1:08
  Yeah.
• 1:08
  And
• 1:09
  just
• 1:09
  for
• 1:09
  our
• 1:10
  listeners,
• 1:10
  we're
• 1:11
  recording
• 1:11
  this
• 1:11
  on
• 1:11
  January
• 1:12
  15th
• 1:13
  of
• 1:13
  2026.
• 1:16
  And
• 1:17
  I
• 1:17
  have
• 1:17
  to
• 1:17
  say
• 1:18
  that
• 1:18
  I
• 1:18
  am
• 1:19
  struggling
• 1:19
  a
• 1:20
  bit
• 1:20
  myself
• 1:20
  with
• 1:21
  what's
• 1:21
  been
• 1:21
  going
• 1:21
  on
• 1:22
  in
• 1:22
  Minneapolis
• 1:22
  personally,
• 1:23
  particularly
• 1:24
  with
• 1:25
  the
• 1:26
  shooting
• 1:26
  of
• 1:27
  Renee
• 1:27
  Good.
• 1:29
  And
• 1:31
  one
• 1:32
  of
• 1:32
  the
• 1:32
  things
• 1:32
  that
• 1:33
  I,
• 1:33
  I
• 1:33
  wonder
• 1:34
  about
• 1:34
  is
• 1:34
  what
• 1:35
  do
• 1:35
  we
• 1:35
  say
• 1:35
  to
• 1:35
  her
• 1:35
  six
• 1:36
  year
• 1:36
  old
• 1:36
  son
• 1:36
  when
• 1:36
  he
• 1:36
  asks
• 1:37
  where's
• 1:37
  mommy?
• 1:38
  Yeah,
• 1:39
  you
• 1:39
  know,
• 1:41
  what
• 1:41
  are
• 1:41
  your
• 1:41
  thoughts
• 1:42
  about
• 1:42
  that?
• 1:44
  Well,
• 1:45
  that's
• 1:45
  a
• 1:45
  good
• 1:45
  question.
• 1:46
  And
• 1:46
  I
• 1:46
  think
• 1:46
  a
• 1:47
  lot
• 1:47
  of
• 1:47
  people
• 1:47
  are
• 1:47
  probably
• 1:48
  asking
• 1:48
  that
• 1:49
  in
• 1:49
  their
• 1:49
  own
• 1:49
  homes,
• 1:50
  with
• 1:50
  their
• 1:50
  children's
• 1:51
  and
• 1:51
  loved
• 1:52
  ones,
• 1:52
  exposure
• 1:53
  to
• 1:53
  what's
• 1:53
  going
• 1:53
  on
• 1:53
  that's
• 1:54
  violent
• 1:54
  and
• 1:55
  discriminatory
• 1:56
  in
• 1:57
  our
• 1:57
  country
• 1:57
  today.
• 1:58
  And
• 1:58
  I
• 1:58
  think,
• 1:59
  you
• 2:00
  know,
• 2:00
  I
• 2:00
  think
• 2:00
  it's
• 2:00
  a
• 2:00
  hard
• 2:01
  answer.
• 2:01
  I
• 2:02
  think
• 2:02
  there's
• 2:03
  a
• 2:03
  place
• 2:03
  for
• 2:03
  the
• 2:03
  truth.
• 2:04
  There
• 2:04
  are,
• 2:04
  there
• 2:05
  are
• 2:05
  people
• 2:05
  out
• 2:05
  there,
• 2:06
  honey,
• 2:06
  who
• 2:06
  don't
• 2:07
  understand
• 2:08
  how
• 2:08
  to
• 2:08
  treat
• 2:08
  each
• 2:09
  other
• 2:09
  well,
• 2:09
  who
• 2:10
  have
• 2:11
  tremendous
• 2:12
  biases
• 2:12
  against
• 2:13
  who's
• 2:14
  good
• 2:14
  and
• 2:14
  who's
• 2:14
  evil
• 2:15
  or
• 2:15
  who's
• 2:15
  right
• 2:15
  and
• 2:15
  who's
• 2:16
  wrong.
• 2:17
  And
• 2:17
  they
• 2:17
  have
• 2:17
  a
• 2:18
  belief
• 2:18
  that
• 2:18
  they're
• 2:19
  entitled
• 2:20
  to
• 2:20
  act
• 2:21
  out
• 2:21
  on
• 2:21
  people
• 2:22
  they
• 2:22
  don't
• 2:22
  agree
• 2:22
  with.
• 2:23
  And
• 2:23
  on
• 2:23
  very,
• 2:23
  very
• 2:24
  unfortunately,
• 2:25
  your
• 2:25
  mommy
• 2:26
  was
• 2:26
  one
• 2:26
  of
• 2:27
  the
• 2:27
  people
• 2:28
  that,
• 2:29
  you
• 2:29
  know,
• 2:29
  maybe
• 2:30
  randomly
• 2:30
  got
• 2:31
  selected
• 2:31
  to
• 2:32
  be
• 2:32
  hurt
• 2:33
  by
• 2:33
  people
• 2:34
  who
• 2:34
  don't
• 2:35
  have
• 2:35
  that
• 2:35
  kind
• 2:36
  of
• 2:36
  care
• 2:36
  in
• 2:37
  their
• 2:37
  hearts
• 2:37
  and
• 2:37
  don't,
• 2:38
  haven't,
• 2:38
  haven't
• 2:39
  learned
• 2:40
  how
• 2:40
  to
• 2:41
  deal
• 2:41
  with
• 2:42
  disagreement
• 2:43
  and
• 2:43
  conflict
• 2:44
  in
• 2:44
  a
• 2:44
  peaceful
• 2:44
  and
• 2:45
  loving,
• 2:45
  cooperative
• 2:46
  way.
• 2:47
  And
• 2:47
  it's
• 2:48
  a
• 2:48
  very,
• 2:49
  you
• 2:49
  know,
• 2:49
  know,
• 2:49
  tragic
• 2:50
  thing
• 2:50
  that
• 2:50
  happened
• 2:50
  to
• 2:51
  your
• 2:51
  mommy.
• 2:51
  And,
• 2:54
  and
• 2:54
  a
• 2:54
  lot
• 2:55
  of
• 2:55
  people
• 2:55
  have
• 2:56
  shown
• 2:56
  up
• 2:56
  in
• 2:56
  support
• 2:57
  and
• 2:57
  love
• 2:58
  for
• 2:58
  her
• 2:58
  cause
• 2:59
  and
• 3:00
  that
• 3:00
  that
• 3:01
  may
• 3:01
  be
• 3:01
  the
• 3:01
  only
• 3:01
  silver
• 3:02
  lining
• 3:03
  of
• 3:03
  this
• 3:04
  for
• 3:04
  you.
• 3:05
  Well,
• 3:05
  and
• 3:05
  now
• 3:06
  we
• 3:06
  get
• 3:06
  he
• 3:06
  that
• 3:06
  who
• 3:07
  shall
• 3:07
  not
• 3:07
  be
• 3:08
  named
• 3:10
  threatening
• 3:10
  to
• 3:11
  activate
• 3:11
  the
• 3:11
  Insurrection
• 3:12
  Act.
• 3:12
  And
• 3:12
  we'll
• 3:13
  see
• 3:13
  what
• 3:13
  happens
• 3:13
  over
• 3:14
  the
• 3:14
  weekend
• 3:14
  because
• 3:16
  the
• 3:16
  court,
• 3:17
  many,
• 3:17
  many
• 3:18
  Minnesota
• 3:19
  Keith
• 3:19
  Ellison,
• 3:20
  Attorney
• 3:20
  General,
• 3:21
  has
• 3:22
  asked
• 3:24
  federal
• 3:24
  court
• 3:24
  to
• 3:28
  in
• 3:29
  place
• 3:29
  an
• 3:29
  injunction.
• 3:30
  And
• 3:30
  they
• 3:30
  said
• 3:31
  they'll
• 3:32
  wait
• 3:32
  for
• 3:33
  the
• 3:33
  response
• 3:33
  over
• 3:33
  the
• 3:34
  weekend,
• 3:35
  but
• 3:35
  by
• 3:35
  the
• 3:35
  time
• 3:35
  this
• 3:36
  broadcasts,
• 3:36
  we
• 3:37
  will
• 3:37
  have
• 3:37
  known
• 3:37
  what,
• 3:38
  what's
• 3:38
  going
• 3:38
  on.
• 3:39
  I
• 3:39
  guess
• 3:39
  my
• 3:40
  key,
• 3:40
  my
• 3:41
  key
• 3:41
  question,
• 3:42
  Phyllis,
• 3:42
  as
• 3:43
  a
• 3:43
  psychotherapist,
• 3:45
  how
• 3:45
  do
• 3:45
  we
• 3:46
  get
• 3:47
  to
• 3:47
  a
• 3:47
  point
• 3:48
  of
• 3:50
  reaching
• 3:51
  out
• 3:52
  in
• 3:52
  a
• 3:53
  humane,
• 3:53
  compassionate
• 3:54
  way
• 3:56
  to
• 3:56
  the
• 3:56
  people
• 3:57
  that
• 3:57
  are
• 3:58
  so
• 3:59
  determinedly
• 4:01
  polarized?
• 4:05
  Well,
• 4:05
  you
• 4:06
  know,
• 4:07
  I
• 4:07
  think
• 4:07
  there's
• 4:07
  many
• 4:07
  ways,
• 4:08
  and
• 4:08
  my
• 4:09
  way
• 4:09
  has
• 4:09
  been,
• 4:10
  especially
• 4:10
  through
• 4:11
  my
• 4:11
  book
• 4:11
  America
• 4:12
  in
• 4:12
  Therapy,
• 4:12
  is
• 4:13
  to
• 4:13
  reach
• 4:13
  out
• 4:14
  with
• 4:14
  education
• 4:15
  and
• 4:16
  deep
• 4:16
  understanding
• 4:17
  of
• 4:17
  the
• 4:18
  roots
• 4:18
  of
• 4:18
  some
• 4:19
  of
• 4:19
  that
• 4:19
  kind
• 4:19
  of
• 4:19
  violence
• 4:20
  and
• 4:20
  discriminatory
• 4:21
  behavior
• 4:22
  and
• 4:22
  injustice
• 4:23
  and
• 4:24
  justification
• 4:25
  for
• 4:26
  cruelty.
• 4:28
  Because
• 4:28
  my,
• 4:29
  you
• 4:29
  know,
• 4:29
  my
• 4:29
  whole
• 4:30
  premise
• 4:30
  is
• 4:31
  that
• 4:31
  this
• 4:31
  is
• 4:32
  not
• 4:32
  a
• 4:32
  partisan
• 4:33
  issue.
• 4:33
  It's
• 4:34
  not
• 4:34
  an
• 4:34
  ideological
• 4:35
  issue.
• 4:35
  It's
• 4:35
  a
• 4:36
  mental
• 4:36
  health
• 4:36
  issue.
• 4:37
  And
• 4:38
  the
• 4:38
  reason
• 4:38
  why
• 4:38
  I
• 4:39
  say
• 4:39
  that
• 4:39
  is
• 4:40
  because
• 4:40
  mentally
• 4:40
  healthy
• 4:41
  people
• 4:42
  are
• 4:42
  committed
• 4:43
  to
• 4:43
  working
• 4:44
  out
• 4:44
  their
• 4:44
  differences
• 4:45
  peacefully
• 4:45
  and
• 4:46
  aiming
• 4:47
  toward
• 4:47
  cooperation
• 4:48
  or
• 4:48
  resolution
• 4:49
  or
• 4:50
  compromise
• 4:51
  the
• 4:51
  best
• 4:51
  they
• 4:51
  can.
• 4:52
  And
• 4:53
  when
• 4:53
  they
• 4:53
  can't,
• 4:54
  they're
• 4:54
  still
• 4:55
  committed
• 4:55
  to
• 4:56
  leaving
• 4:56
  each
• 4:56
  other
• 4:56
  alone
• 4:57
  in
• 4:57
  peace.
• 4:59
  And
• 4:59
  we
• 5:00
  don't
• 5:00
  see
• 5:00
  that
• 5:00
  as
• 5:01
  what's
• 5:01
  being
• 5:02
  condoned
• 5:03
  or
• 5:03
  perpetrated
• 5:04
  in
• 5:04
  our
• 5:04
  country
• 5:05
  today.
• 5:05
  And
• 5:06
  it's
• 5:06
  escalating
• 5:07
  the
• 5:08
  mental
• 5:08
  health
• 5:08
  distress
• 5:09
  stress
• 5:09
  that
• 5:10
  many,
• 5:10
  many
• 5:11
  people
• 5:11
  are
• 5:11
  feeling.
• 5:12
  I
• 5:12
  feel
• 5:13
  I
• 5:13
  live
• 5:14
  on
• 5:14
  a,
• 5:14
  you
• 5:14
  know,
• 5:14
  up
• 5:14
  in
• 5:15
  a
• 5:15
  mountain
• 5:15
  in
• 5:15
  Taos,
• 5:16
  and
• 5:16
  I'm
• 5:17
  not
• 5:17
  in
• 5:17
  the
• 5:17
  middle
• 5:17
  of
• 5:18
  Minneapolis,
• 5:19
  but
• 5:19
  I'm
• 5:19
  witnessing
• 5:21
  this
• 5:21
  terrible
• 5:22
  behavior
• 5:22
  and
• 5:22
  this
• 5:23
  violence.
• 5:23
  And
• 5:24
  we
• 5:24
  know
• 5:24
  in
• 5:25
  the
• 5:25
  world
• 5:25
  of
• 5:25
  psychology
• 5:26
  that
• 5:26
  you
• 5:26
  do
• 5:26
  not
• 5:27
  have
• 5:27
  to
• 5:27
  be
• 5:27
  the
• 5:27
  direct
• 5:28
  target
• 5:28
  of
• 5:29
  abuse
• 5:29
  and
• 5:30
  neglect
• 5:30
  to
• 5:30
  be
• 5:31
  traumatized
• 5:32
  by
• 5:32
  it.
• 5:33
  And
• 5:33
  I
• 5:33
  think
• 5:33
  many,
• 5:34
  many
• 5:34
  people
• 5:34
  in
• 5:34
  our
• 5:35
  country
• 5:35
  are
• 5:35
  being
• 5:35
  traumatized
• 5:36
  by
• 5:36
  it.
• 5:37
  They
• 5:37
  feel
• 5:37
  powerless
• 5:38
  to
• 5:38
  do
• 5:38
  anything
• 5:39
  about
• 5:39
  it,
• 5:39
  and
• 5:40
  they're
• 5:40
  becoming
• 5:40
  symptom
• 5:41
  in
• 5:41
  their
• 5:41
  own
• 5:42
  ways,
• 5:42
  whether
• 5:42
  it's
• 5:43
  depression
• 5:43
  or
• 5:44
  anxiety
• 5:44
  or
• 5:45
  fear
• 5:46
  or
• 5:46
  turning
• 5:47
  more
• 5:47
  to
• 5:47
  drink
• 5:47
  or
• 5:48
  distraction
• 5:49
  or,
• 5:50
  you
• 5:50
  know,
• 5:50
  exploding
• 5:51
  because
• 5:52
  they're,
• 5:52
  the
• 5:52
  tension
• 5:53
  is
• 5:53
  building
• 5:53
  inside
• 5:54
  of
• 5:54
  them
• 5:55
  or
• 5:56
  turning
• 5:56
  around
• 5:56
  and
• 5:57
  targeting
• 5:57
  other
• 5:57
  people
• 5:58
  and,
• 5:58
  you
• 5:58
  know,
• 5:58
  back
• 5:59
  at
• 5:59
  you.
• 5:59
  Right,
• 6:00
  right.
• 6:02
  So
• 6:04
  it's
• 6:04
  a,
• 6:04
  it's
• 6:04
  a
• 6:05
  curious
• 6:05
  thing
• 6:05
  I
• 6:06
  was
• 6:06
  going
• 6:06
  to
• 6:06
  ask
• 6:06
  you
• 6:06
  about.
• 6:07
  How
• 6:07
  is
• 6:07
  the
• 6:07
  abuse
• 6:08
  that
• 6:08
  he
• 6:08
  who
• 6:09
  shall
• 6:09
  not
• 6:09
  be
• 6:09
  named
• 6:10
  suffered
• 6:11
  as
• 6:11
  a
• 6:11
  child
• 6:12
  become
• 6:12
  so
• 6:13
  resonant
• 6:13
  with
• 6:13
  30%
• 6:14
  of
• 6:14
  our
• 6:14
  population?
• 6:15
  And
• 6:16
  he's
• 6:16
  been,
• 6:17
  you
• 6:17
  know,
• 6:17
  I'm
• 6:18
  not
• 6:18
  a
• 6:19
  psychologist,
• 6:19
  but
• 6:20
  there
• 6:20
  have
• 6:20
  been
• 6:21
  a
• 6:21
  number
• 6:21
  of
• 6:21
  people
• 6:22
  who
• 6:22
  have
• 6:22
  commented
• 6:23
  that
• 6:23
  he's
• 6:23
  a
• 6:24
  narcissistic
• 6:24
  sociopath
• 6:26
  with
• 6:27
  demonstrable
• 6:28
  dementia.
• 6:30
  And.
• 6:31
  And
• 6:31
  the
• 6:31
  nuclear
• 6:32
  codes.
• 6:33
  Yeah,
• 6:34
  well,
• 6:35
  it's
• 6:35
  terrifying.
• 6:36
  It's
• 6:36
  absolutely
• 6:36
  terrifying
• 6:37
  to
• 6:37
  have
• 6:38
  someone
• 6:38
  who
• 6:38
  behaves
• 6:40
  like
• 6:40
  an
• 6:40
  abuser
• 6:41
  in
• 6:41
  an
• 6:42
  individual
• 6:42
  family
• 6:43
  running
• 6:44
  a
• 6:44
  country
• 6:44
  and
• 6:44
  having
• 6:45
  that
• 6:45
  kind
• 6:45
  of
• 6:46
  power
• 6:46
  over
• 6:47
  untold
• 6:47
  numbers
• 6:48
  of
• 6:48
  people
• 6:48
  who
• 6:49
  are
• 6:49
  not
• 6:49
  just
• 6:49
  in
• 6:49
  our
• 6:50
  country
• 6:50
  but
• 6:50
  around
• 6:51
  the
• 6:51
  world.
• 6:53
  So
• 6:53
  it's
• 6:54
  a,
• 6:54
  you
• 6:54
  know,
• 6:54
  it's
• 6:54
  a
• 6:54
  very
• 6:55
  severe
• 6:56
  call
• 6:57
  to
• 6:58
  look
• 6:58
  at
• 6:58
  our
• 6:59
  mental
• 6:59
  health.
• 6:59
  Why.
• 7:00
  Why
• 7:00
  are
• 7:00
  30%
• 7:01
  of
• 7:01
  people,
• 7:02
  if
• 7:02
  that's
• 7:02
  the
• 7:02
  number,
• 7:03
  supporting
• 7:04
  such
• 7:04
  behavior?
• 7:05
  And
• 7:06
  what
• 7:06
  I
• 7:06
  try
• 7:07
  to
• 7:07
  outline.
• 7:07
  And
• 7:07
  again,
• 7:08
  there's
• 7:08
  many.
• 7:09
  There's
• 7:09
  many
• 7:09
  ways
• 7:09
  to
• 7:10
  look
• 7:10
  at
• 7:10
  this.
• 7:10
  I'm
• 7:11
  taking
• 7:11
  the
• 7:11
  view
• 7:11
  of
• 7:12
  psychology
• 7:12
  because
• 7:13
  I
• 7:13
  really
• 7:13
  believe
• 7:14
  that
• 7:14
  it
• 7:15
  is
• 7:15
  one
• 7:15
  of
• 7:15
  the
• 7:15
  biggest
• 7:16
  missing
• 7:16
  pieces
• 7:16
  in
• 7:17
  the
• 7:17
  puzzle
• 7:17
  of
• 7:17
  what's
• 7:18
  going
• 7:18
  on
• 7:18
  today
• 7:19
  that's
• 7:19
  really
• 7:19
  not
• 7:19
  being
• 7:20
  named.
• 7:21
  We
• 7:21
  talk
• 7:21
  about
• 7:21
  economy,
• 7:22
  we
• 7:22
  talk
• 7:22
  about
• 7:23
  race,
• 7:23
  we
• 7:23
  talk
• 7:23
  about
• 7:23
  gender,
• 7:24
  we
• 7:24
  talk
• 7:24
  about
• 7:25
  culture,
• 7:26
  we
• 7:26
  talk
• 7:26
  about
• 7:27
  religion,
• 7:28
  but
• 7:28
  I
• 7:29
  don't
• 7:29
  think
• 7:29
  mental
• 7:30
  health
• 7:30
  is
• 7:30
  at
• 7:30
  the
• 7:31
  top
• 7:31
  of
• 7:32
  what
• 7:32
  we
• 7:32
  should
• 7:33
  be
• 7:33
  talking
• 7:33
  about
• 7:34
  because
• 7:35
  I
• 7:35
  think
• 7:35
  it's
• 7:36
  people's
• 7:36
  unhealed
• 7:37
  wounds,
• 7:38
  their
• 7:38
  own
• 7:38
  sense
• 7:39
  of
• 7:39
  powerlessness
• 7:40
  or
• 7:41
  invisibility
• 7:42
  or
• 7:43
  having
• 7:43
  been
• 7:43
  turned
• 7:43
  on
• 7:44
  themselves
• 7:45
  that
• 7:45
  has
• 7:45
  them
• 7:46
  align
• 7:46
  with
• 7:47
  the
• 7:47
  bully
• 7:47
  on
• 7:48
  the
• 7:48
  playground.
• 7:49
  And,
• 7:50
  and
• 7:50
  of
• 7:50
  course,
• 7:50
  there's
• 7:50
  a
• 7:51
  lot
• 7:51
  more
• 7:51
  detail
• 7:51
  to.
• 7:52
  To
• 7:52
  talk
• 7:52
  about
• 7:53
  about
• 7:53
  that,
• 7:53
  but.
• 7:53
  And
• 7:54
  I
• 7:54
  really
• 7:54
  go
• 7:54
  into
• 7:55
  detail
• 7:55
  about
• 7:56
  that
• 7:56
  in
• 7:56
  my
• 7:56
  book.
• 7:57
  But
• 7:58
  people
• 7:59
  who
• 7:59
  have
• 8:00
  brought.
• 8:00
  Been
• 8:00
  brought
• 8:01
  up
• 8:01
  safely
• 8:02
  with
• 8:02
  love
• 8:02
  and
• 8:03
  support
• 8:04
  and
• 8:05
  some
• 8:06
  practice
• 8:06
  of
• 8:06
  nonviolent
• 8:07
  communication
• 8:08
  skills
• 8:09
  and
• 8:09
  abilities
• 8:11
  don't
• 8:11
  do
• 8:12
  what's
• 8:13
  being
• 8:13
  done
• 8:13
  in
• 8:13
  our
• 8:14
  country.
• 8:14
  They
• 8:14
  don't
• 8:15
  look
• 8:15
  for
• 8:15
  people
• 8:15
  to
• 8:16
  target.
• 8:16
  They
• 8:17
  don't
• 8:17
  act
• 8:17
  out
• 8:18
  their
• 8:18
  rage
• 8:18
  and
• 8:19
  justify
• 8:19
  it.
• 8:20
  These
• 8:20
  are
• 8:20
  the
• 8:20
  things
• 8:21
  that
• 8:21
  abusive
• 8:21
  people
• 8:22
  do.
• 8:23
  But
• 8:23
  what
• 8:23
  we
• 8:23
  must
• 8:24
  understand,
• 8:25
  and
• 8:25
  I
• 8:25
  really
• 8:25
  try
• 8:26
  to
• 8:26
  emphasize
• 8:26
  this,
• 8:27
  is
• 8:27
  that
• 8:27
  inside
• 8:28
  the
• 8:28
  abuser
• 8:29
  is
• 8:29
  an
• 8:29
  unhealed
• 8:30
  victim
• 8:31
  of
• 8:31
  something.
• 8:32
  Absolutely.
• 8:33
  So
• 8:33
  if
• 8:34
  we're
• 8:34
  not
• 8:34
  committed
• 8:35
  as
• 8:35
  a
• 8:35
  society
• 8:36
  to
• 8:36
  heal
• 8:37
  the
• 8:37
  victimization
• 8:38
  going
• 8:38
  on
• 8:39
  on
• 8:39
  all
• 8:40
  levels
• 8:40
  in
• 8:40
  the
• 8:41
  home,
• 8:41
  in
• 8:41
  communities,
• 8:42
  in
• 8:42
  churches,
• 8:43
  in
• 8:43
  schools,
• 8:43
  in
• 8:44
  businesses,
• 8:45
  if
• 8:45
  we're
• 8:46
  not
• 8:46
  committed
• 8:46
  to
• 8:46
  that,
• 8:47
  or
• 8:47
  maybe
• 8:47
  I'll
• 8:48
  put
• 8:48
  it
• 8:48
  in
• 8:48
  the
• 8:48
  positive,
• 8:48
  if
• 8:49
  we
• 8:49
  commit
• 8:49
  to
• 8:49
  that,
• 8:50
  we
• 8:50
  can
• 8:51
  help
• 8:51
  break
• 8:51
  this
• 8:51
  cycle.
• 8:53
  And
• 8:53
  I'm
• 8:53
  not
• 8:54
  sure
• 8:54
  there's
• 8:54
  another
• 8:54
  way
• 8:55
  to
• 8:55
  break
• 8:55
  the
• 8:55
  cycle,
• 8:56
  because
• 8:56
  right
• 8:56
  now
• 8:57
  many
• 8:57
  people
• 8:58
  in
• 8:58
  power
• 8:58
  have,
• 8:59
  through
• 9:00
  their
• 9:00
  own
• 9:00
  wounding
• 9:01
  or
• 9:01
  their
• 9:01
  own
• 9:01
  lack
• 9:02
  of
• 9:02
  education
• 9:02
  or
• 9:03
  their
• 9:03
  own
• 9:03
  limited
• 9:04
  exposure
• 9:05
  to
• 9:05
  role
• 9:05
  models
• 9:06
  for
• 9:06
  human
• 9:06
  behavior,
• 9:07
  have
• 9:08
  identified
• 9:08
  with
• 9:08
  the
• 9:09
  aggressor
• 9:09
  and
• 9:09
  feel
• 9:10
  completely
• 9:10
  justified
• 9:11
  in
• 9:12
  being
• 9:12
  the
• 9:12
  aggressor.
• 9:16
  So
• 9:17
  I've
• 9:18
  Been
• 9:18
  really
• 9:18
  dominating
• 9:18
  this.
• 9:19
  You.
• 9:19
  Do
• 9:19
  you
• 9:19
  have
• 9:19
  some
• 9:20
  thoughts,
• 9:20
  Adam?
• 9:21
  Well,
• 9:22
  first
• 9:22
  and
• 9:22
  foremost,
• 9:23
  I
• 9:23
  just
• 9:23
  want
• 9:23
  to
• 9:23
  encourage
• 9:23
  everyone
• 9:24
  to
• 9:24
  stay
• 9:24
  safe.
• 9:25
  Right.
• 9:26
  You.
• 9:29
  Stay
• 9:29
  safe
• 9:29
  and
• 9:30
  stay
• 9:30
  safe
• 9:30
  in
• 9:30
  your
• 9:31
  heart
• 9:31
  and
• 9:31
  your
• 9:31
  mind
• 9:31
  as
• 9:32
  well.
• 9:33
  Take
• 9:33
  care
• 9:34
  of
• 9:34
  your
• 9:34
  mental
• 9:34
  health,
• 9:34
  take
• 9:34
  care
• 9:35
  of
• 9:35
  your
• 9:35
  spirituality.
• 9:36
  It's
• 9:36
  all
• 9:36
  you
• 9:36
  have.
• 9:37
  And
• 9:38
  also
• 9:39
  stay
• 9:39
  safe.
• 9:39
  When
• 9:39
  we
• 9:39
  talk
• 9:40
  about
• 9:40
  reaching
• 9:40
  out
• 9:40
  to
• 9:41
  people
• 9:41
  like
• 9:42
  this,
• 9:42
  it
• 9:42
  might
• 9:42
  not
• 9:43
  be
• 9:43
  safe.
• 9:43
  Some
• 9:43
  of
• 9:44
  these
• 9:44
  people
• 9:44
  are
• 9:44
  complete,
• 9:45
  clearly
• 9:45
  unsafe
• 9:46
  to
• 9:46
  be
• 9:46
  around.
• 9:47
  So
• 9:48
  this
• 9:48
  is
• 9:49
  something
• 9:49
  where
• 9:51
  deeply
• 9:51
  in
• 9:51
  Chinese
• 9:52
  philosophy,
• 9:52
  you
• 9:52
  keep
• 9:53
  yourself
• 9:53
  safe
• 9:53
  first
• 9:53
  and
• 9:54
  foremost.
• 9:55
  This
• 9:56
  too
• 9:56
  shall
• 9:56
  pass.
• 9:57
  The.
• 9:58
  The
• 9:58
  tides
• 9:58
  of
• 9:59
  society
• 9:59
  go
• 9:59
  up
• 9:59
  and
• 9:59
  down
• 10:01
  sometimes
• 10:01
  in,
• 10:01
  you
• 10:01
  know,
• 10:02
  when
• 10:02
  we
• 10:02
  look
• 10:02
  at
• 10:02
  the
• 10:02
  I
• 10:02
  Ching,
• 10:03
  the
• 10:03
  book
• 10:03
  of
• 10:03
  changes,
• 10:04
  it.
• 10:04
  It's
• 10:05
  littered
• 10:05
  with
• 10:06
  ups
• 10:07
  and
• 10:07
  downs
• 10:07
  of
• 10:07
  society.
• 10:08
  So
• 10:08
  sometimes
• 10:08
  low
• 10:09
  people
• 10:09
  will
• 10:10
  rise
• 10:10
  to
• 10:10
  power.
• 10:11
  And
• 10:11
  in
• 10:11
  that
• 10:12
  time,
• 10:12
  it
• 10:12
  gives
• 10:12
  us
• 10:12
  advice
• 10:13
  that
• 10:13
  you,
• 10:13
  you
• 10:13
  stay
• 10:14
  safe.
• 10:14
  And
• 10:15
  they're
• 10:15
  going
• 10:16
  against
• 10:16
  the
• 10:16
  principle
• 10:16
  of
• 10:17
  humanity.
• 10:17
  They're
• 10:18
  going
• 10:18
  against
• 10:18
  the
• 10:18
  principle
• 10:19
  of
• 10:19
  the
• 10:19
  universe.
• 10:19
  They
• 10:20
  will
• 10:20
  flame
• 10:20
  out.
• 10:21
  But
• 10:21
  if
• 10:21
  you're,
• 10:22
  if
• 10:22
  you
• 10:22
  get
• 10:22
  caught
• 10:22
  up
• 10:22
  in
• 10:23
  the
• 10:23
  crossfire,
• 10:23
  either
• 10:24
  mentally
• 10:24
  or
• 10:24
  physically,
• 10:25
  you
• 10:25
  can't
• 10:26
  endure
• 10:26
  it.
• 10:26
  So
• 10:27
  keep
• 10:27
  your.
• 10:29
  And
• 10:29
  keep
• 10:30
  yourself.
• 10:30
  Keep
• 10:30
  yourself
• 10:30
  as
• 10:31
  sane
• 10:31
  and
• 10:31
  happy
• 10:31
  as
• 10:31
  you
• 10:32
  can.
• 10:32
  I
• 10:33
  know
• 10:34
  since
• 10:34
  the
• 10:35
  election,
• 10:35
  you
• 10:36
  know,
• 10:36
  I
• 10:36
  was,
• 10:36
  I
• 10:36
  was
• 10:36
  very
• 10:37
  involved
• 10:37
  in
• 10:37
  the
• 10:37
  news
• 10:38
  before
• 10:39
  the
• 10:39
  election,
• 10:39
  and
• 10:39
  since
• 10:40
  the
• 10:40
  election,
• 10:40
  I
• 10:40
  took
• 10:40
  a
• 10:40
  huge
• 10:41
  news
• 10:41
  fast
• 10:41
  and
• 10:42
  it's
• 10:42
  been
• 10:42
  just
• 10:43
  excellent
• 10:44
  for,
• 10:44
  for
• 10:44
  that
• 10:45
  aspect
• 10:45
  of
• 10:45
  compartmentalizing,
• 10:47
  staying,
• 10:47
  keeping
• 10:48
  politics
• 10:48
  more
• 10:49
  at
• 10:49
  arm's
• 10:49
  length
• 10:49
  because
• 10:50
  I,
• 10:50
  I'm
• 10:51
  in
• 10:51
  no
• 10:51
  position
• 10:51
  to
• 10:52
  affect
• 10:52
  it
• 10:52
  very
• 10:53
  well,
• 10:53
  you
• 10:53
  know,
• 10:53
  obviously.
• 10:54
  And
• 10:54
  I
• 10:55
  also
• 10:55
  say,
• 10:55
  like,
• 10:56
  in,
• 10:56
  in
• 10:57
  our
• 10:57
  background,
• 10:59
  the,
• 10:59
  the
• 11:00
  big,
• 11:00
  biggest,
• 11:01
  best
• 11:01
  thing
• 11:01
  you
• 11:01
  could
• 11:01
  do
• 11:02
  is
• 11:02
  take
• 11:02
  care
• 11:02
  of
• 11:02
  yourself.
• 11:02
  If
• 11:03
  you're
• 11:03
  taking
• 11:03
  care
• 11:03
  of
• 11:03
  yourself,
• 11:04
  taking
• 11:04
  care
• 11:04
  of
• 11:04
  your
• 11:05
  relationships,
• 11:05
  taking
• 11:05
  care
• 11:06
  of
• 11:06
  people
• 11:06
  around
• 11:06
  you,
• 11:07
  then,
• 11:08
  okay,
• 11:08
  let's
• 11:08
  put
• 11:08
  it
• 11:09
  in
• 11:09
  these
• 11:09
  terms.
• 11:09
  You
• 11:09
  are
• 11:09
  not
• 11:10
  perpetuating
• 11:10
  the
• 11:11
  violence.
• 11:11
  You're
• 11:12
  not
• 11:12
  adding
• 11:13
  flame
• 11:13
  to
• 11:14
  the
• 11:14
  fire.
• 11:14
  Like
• 11:14
  when
• 11:15
  you're
• 11:15
  saying,
• 11:15
  Phyllis,
• 11:15
  that
• 11:16
  so
• 11:17
  many
• 11:17
  people
• 11:17
  have.
• 11:18
  They've
• 11:18
  been
• 11:18
  victimized
• 11:19
  and
• 11:19
  they're
• 11:19
  perpetuating
• 11:20
  it.
• 11:20
  So
• 11:20
  if
• 11:21
  the
• 11:21
  better
• 11:21
  you
• 11:21
  take
• 11:21
  care
• 11:21
  of
• 11:21
  yourself,
• 11:22
  the
• 11:22
  better
• 11:22
  you
• 11:22
  use
• 11:22
  your
• 11:22
  tools,
• 11:23
  use
• 11:23
  your
• 11:23
  words,
• 11:24
  use
• 11:24
  what
• 11:24
  you
• 11:24
  learned
• 11:24
  in
• 11:24
  kindergarten
• 11:25
  for
• 11:25
  goodness,
• 11:25
  sa.
• 11:26
  Sharing
• 11:27
  and
• 11:27
  caring,
• 11:28
  then.
• 11:28
  Then
• 11:29
  you'll
• 11:30
  help.
• 11:30
  You'll
• 11:31
  help
• 11:31
  us
• 11:31
  break
• 11:32
  the
• 11:32
  cycle.
• 11:33
  I
• 11:33
  totally
• 11:34
  agree
• 11:34
  with
• 11:34
  that.
• 11:35
  I
• 11:35
  have
• 11:35
  to
• 11:35
  say
• 11:35
  that
• 11:36
  what
• 11:36
  we're
• 11:36
  doing
• 11:36
  here
• 11:37
  is
• 11:37
  one
• 11:37
  of
• 11:37
  the
• 11:38
  things
• 11:38
  that
• 11:38
  we
• 11:38
  can
• 11:38
  do
• 11:39
  in.
• 11:39
  That's
• 11:40
  right.
• 11:40
  Having
• 11:41
  this
• 11:41
  discussion.
• 11:43
  So
• 11:44
  I
• 11:44
  just
• 11:44
  really,
• 11:44
  really
• 11:45
  appreciate
• 11:45
  your
• 11:45
  work
• 11:45
  too,
• 11:46
  Phyllis,
• 11:46
  because
• 11:46
  it's
• 11:46
  just
• 11:46
  so
• 11:47
  important
• 11:47
  right
• 11:47
  now.
• 11:48
  I,
• 11:48
  I
• 11:49
  once,
• 11:49
  you
• 11:49
  know,
• 11:49
  I
• 11:49
  thought
• 11:50
  a
• 11:50
  few
• 11:50
  years
• 11:50
  ago,
• 11:50
  we
• 11:51
  really
• 11:51
  need.
• 11:51
  Right
• 11:51
  now
• 11:51
  is.
• 11:52
  Is
• 11:52
  an
• 11:52
  army
• 11:53
  of
• 11:53
  cult
• 11:53
  deprogrammers
• 11:54
  who
• 11:54
  are
• 11:54
  trained
• 11:54
  in
• 11:54
  this
• 11:55
  kind
• 11:55
  of
• 11:55
  thing
• 11:55
  because
• 11:55
  that's,
• 11:56
  that's
• 11:56
  what
• 11:56
  we're
• 11:56
  going
• 11:56
  through.
• 11:57
  Right.
• 11:58
  And
• 11:58
  really
• 11:59
  just
• 11:59
  to
• 11:59
  translate
• 12:00
  cult
• 12:00
  deprogramming
• 12:02
  into
• 12:02
  layman's
• 12:03
  language,
• 12:05
  it's
• 12:05
  healing
• 12:05
  your
• 12:06
  wounds.
• 12:06
  If
• 12:07
  you
• 12:07
  heal
• 12:07
  your
• 12:07
  wounds,
• 12:08
  you're
• 12:08
  not
• 12:09
  subject
• 12:09
  to
• 12:09
  be,
• 12:10
  you
• 12:11
  know,
• 12:11
  co
• 12:11
  opted
• 12:12
  and
• 12:12
  inscripted
• 12:13
  or
• 12:13
  whatever
• 12:13
  the
• 12:13
  word
• 12:13
  is
• 12:14
  conscripted
• 12:14
  into.
• 12:15
  Conscripted
• 12:16
  into
• 12:16
  some
• 12:17
  kind
• 12:17
  of
• 12:17
  cult
• 12:18
  thinking
• 12:19
  or
• 12:19
  very,
• 12:20
  very
• 12:21
  extreme
• 12:22
  rigid
• 12:23
  mentality
• 12:24
  that
• 12:24
  makes
• 12:25
  people
• 12:25
  other.
• 12:26
  And
• 12:27
  so
• 12:27
  healing
• 12:27
  your
• 12:27
  own
• 12:27
  wounds
• 12:28
  is
• 12:28
  the
• 12:28
  way
• 12:29
  out.
• 12:30
  What
• 12:30
  makes
• 12:30
  people
• 12:31
  subject
• 12:31
  to
• 12:32
  be
• 12:32
  in
• 12:32
  a
• 12:32
  cult
• 12:32
  is
• 12:33
  I
• 12:33
  think
• 12:35
  deep
• 12:35
  unhealed
• 12:36
  wounds
• 12:36
  of
• 12:37
  some
• 12:37
  kind.
• 12:38
  Sometimes
• 12:38
  it's
• 12:38
  overt
• 12:39
  abuse,
• 12:40
  sometimes
• 12:40
  it's
• 12:40
  terrible
• 12:41
  role
• 12:41
  modeling,
• 12:42
  sometimes
• 12:43
  it's
• 12:43
  powerlessness
• 12:44
  over
• 12:45
  abuse
• 12:45
  that's
• 12:45
  happening
• 12:46
  around
• 12:46
  you.
• 12:47
  And
• 12:47
  sometimes
• 12:49
  it's
• 12:49
  no
• 12:50
  limits
• 12:50
  and
• 12:50
  boundaries.
• 12:51
  Children
• 12:52
  and
• 12:52
  adults
• 12:53
  who
• 12:53
  have
• 12:53
  no
• 12:53
  limits
• 12:54
  on
• 12:54
  their
• 12:54
  behavior,
• 12:55
  who
• 12:55
  have
• 12:56
  been
• 12:56
  thought
• 12:57
  or
• 12:58
  either
• 12:58
  overtly
• 12:59
  or
• 12:59
  not,
• 13:00
  that
• 13:00
  they're
• 13:00
  the
• 13:01
  center
• 13:01
  of
• 13:01
  the
• 13:01
  universe
• 13:02
  and
• 13:02
  they
• 13:02
  get
• 13:02
  to
• 13:02
  have
• 13:03
  whatever
• 13:03
  they
• 13:03
  want
• 13:03
  and
• 13:04
  believe
• 13:04
  whatever
• 13:04
  they
• 13:05
  want.
• 13:05
  And
• 13:05
  that's
• 13:05
  right.
• 13:06
  And
• 13:06
  they
• 13:06
  don't
• 13:06
  have
• 13:06
  to
• 13:07
  factor
• 13:07
  in
• 13:08
  the
• 13:08
  feelings
• 13:08
  of
• 13:09
  other
• 13:09
  people
• 13:09
  or
• 13:09
  their
• 13:10
  impact
• 13:10
  on
• 13:10
  other
• 13:11
  people
• 13:12
  are
• 13:12
  equally
• 13:13
  wounded
• 13:13
  in
• 13:14
  a
• 13:14
  different
• 13:14
  kind
• 13:14
  of
• 13:15
  way
• 13:15
  than
• 13:15
  if
• 13:15
  they
• 13:15
  were
• 13:16
  beaten
• 13:16
  or
• 13:16
  molested
• 13:17
  or
• 13:17
  ostracized.
• 13:19
  Yeah.
• 13:20
  There's
• 13:20
  no
• 13:20
  accountability,
• 13:21
  unfortunately.
• 13:21
  We
• 13:22
  have
• 13:22
  to
• 13:22
  be
• 13:22
  accountable
• 13:22
  right
• 13:23
  now.
• 13:23
  I'm
• 13:23
  Anthony
• 13:23
  Wright.
• 13:24
  Right.
• 13:24
  I'm
• 13:24
  your
• 13:25
  host
• 13:25
  today
• 13:25
  on
• 13:26
  the
• 13:26
  Living
• 13:26
  Conversation
• 13:27
  with
• 13:28
  my
• 13:28
  co
• 13:28
  host
• 13:29
  Adam
• 13:29
  Dietz.
• 13:30
  And
• 13:30
  our
• 13:30
  guest
• 13:31
  today
• 13:31
  is
• 13:31
  Phyllis
• 13:32
  Levitt.
• 13:32
  And
• 13:33
  how
• 13:33
  can
• 13:33
  people
• 13:33
  contact
• 13:33
  you,
• 13:34
  Phyllis?
• 13:35
  Yeah,
• 13:35
  the
• 13:35
  best
• 13:36
  way
• 13:36
  to
• 13:36
  contact
• 13:36
  me
• 13:37
  is
• 13:37
  on
• 13:37
  my
• 13:37
  website,
• 13:38
  phyllis
• 13:38
  levitt.com
• 13:40
  and
• 13:40
  I
• 13:41
  also
• 13:41
  have
• 13:42
  a
• 13:42
  business
• 13:42
  email
• 13:43
  which
• 13:43
  is
• 13:43
  phyllisphyllis
• 13:44
  levitt.com
• 13:45
  and
• 13:45
  you're
• 13:45
  welcome
• 13:46
  to
• 13:46
  contact
• 13:46
  me
• 13:46
  that
• 13:47
  way.
• 13:47
  I'm
• 13:48
  happy
• 13:48
  to
• 13:48
  talk
• 13:48
  to
• 13:49
  anybody.
• 13:50
  And
• 13:51
  I'm
• 13:51
  on
• 13:51
  all
• 13:51
  the
• 13:51
  social
• 13:52
  media,
• 13:52
  Facebook,
• 13:53
  LinkedIn,
• 13:54
  Instagram,
• 13:55
  YouTube,
• 13:56
  that
• 13:56
  kind
• 13:56
  of
• 13:56
  thing.
• 13:56
  And
• 13:56
  the
• 13:57
  spelling
• 13:57
  of
• 13:57
  your
• 13:57
  last
• 13:58
  name,
• 13:58
  please.
• 13:59
  L
• 13:59
  E
• 13:59
  A
• 14:00
  V
• 14:00
  as
• 14:00
  in
• 14:01
  Victor,
• 14:01
  I
• 14:01
  T
• 14:01
  T
• 14:02
  Phyllis
• 14:03
  Levitt.
• 14:03
  And
• 14:03
  it's
• 14:03
  Phyllis
• 14:04
  levitt.com
• 14:05
  right
• 14:05
  as
• 14:05
  one
• 14:06
  word.
• 14:07
  All
• 14:07
  right,
• 14:08
  we're
• 14:08
  going
• 14:08
  to
• 14:08
  take
• 14:08
  a
• 14:08
  short
• 14:08
  break
• 14:09
  and
• 14:09
  be
• 14:09
  right
• 14:09
  back.
• 14:10
  So
• 14:10
  stay
• 14:10
  tuned.
• 14:11
  I'm
• 14:11
  Anthony
• 14:11
  Wright
• 14:12
  and
• 14:12
  I
• 14:12
  am
• 14:13
  your
• 14:13
  co
• 14:14
  host
• 14:14
  on
• 14:14
  A
• 14:14
  Living
• 14:15
  Conversation
• 14:15
  with
• 14:16
  Adam
• 14:16
  Dietz.
• 14:17
  Welcome
• 14:17
  back.
• 14:17
  And
• 14:18
  we're
• 14:18
  here
• 14:18
  with
• 14:19
  our
• 14:19
  guest
• 14:19
  Phyllis
• 14:19
  Levitt.
• 14:20
  And
• 14:21
  before
• 14:21
  the
• 14:21
  break,
• 14:22
  Phyllis,
• 14:22
  you
• 14:22
  were
• 14:23
  saying
• 14:23
  you
• 14:23
  were
• 14:23
  speaking
• 14:24
  about
• 14:24
  when
• 14:27
  children
• 14:27
  grow
• 14:28
  up
• 14:28
  in
• 14:28
  a
• 14:28
  family
• 14:28
  where
• 14:29
  they
• 14:29
  get
• 14:29
  to
• 14:29
  do
• 14:29
  whatever
• 14:30
  they
• 14:30
  want
• 14:30
  and
• 14:30
  there's
• 14:30
  no
• 14:30
  accountability,
• 14:32
  that
• 14:32
  can
• 14:32
  be
• 14:32
  a
• 14:32
  different
• 14:33
  sort
• 14:33
  of
• 14:33
  trauma.
• 14:35
  Yeah.
• 14:36
  And
• 14:38
  in
• 14:38
  we've
• 14:38
  been
• 14:39
  speaking
• 14:39
  a
• 14:39
  little
• 14:39
  bit
• 14:39
  about
• 14:40
  cult
• 14:40
  deprogramming
• 14:41
  and
• 14:45
  there's
• 14:46
  a.
• 14:47
  And
• 14:47
  it's
• 14:48
  the
• 14:48
  double
• 14:48
  bind
• 14:49
  model
• 14:49
  by
• 14:49
  Gregory
• 14:50
  Bateson.
• 14:51
  And
• 14:51
  one
• 14:51
  of
• 14:51
  the
• 14:51
  things
• 14:52
  that
• 14:52
  I
• 14:52
  have
• 14:53
  noticed
• 14:54
  with
• 14:54
  those
• 14:55
  involved
• 14:55
  with
• 14:55
  cult
• 14:56
  deprogramming
• 14:57
  is,
• 14:58
  or
• 14:58
  with
• 14:59
  cults
• 14:59
  is
• 14:59
  that
• 15:00
  they
• 15:01
  become
• 15:02
  ego
• 15:04
  defended
• 15:05
  so
• 15:06
  that
• 15:06
  if
• 15:06
  you
• 15:07
  question
• 15:07
  a
• 15:07
  behavior,
• 15:08
  it
• 15:08
  becomes
• 15:09
  a
• 15:09
  question
• 15:09
  about
• 15:10
  who
• 15:10
  they
• 15:10
  are.
• 15:12
  And
• 15:13
  can
• 15:13
  you
• 15:13
  talk
• 15:14
  a
• 15:14
  bit
• 15:14
  about
• 15:14
  how
• 15:15
  to
• 15:16
  approach
• 15:17
  such
• 15:17
  a
• 15:17
  person
• 15:18
  who
• 15:18
  is
• 15:19
  ego
• 15:20
  defended
• 15:20
  like
• 15:21
  that
• 15:21
  and
• 15:21
  isn't
• 15:22
  really
• 15:22
  invested
• 15:24
  in
• 15:24
  a
• 15:25
  belief
• 15:25
  system
• 15:26
  that
• 15:26
  is
• 15:27
  really
• 15:31
  rather
• 15:31
  disconnected
• 15:32
  from.
• 15:33
  Right.
• 15:33
  From
• 15:34
  the
• 15:34
  other?
• 15:34
  You
• 15:34
  know,
• 15:35
  And
• 15:35
  I,
• 15:35
  and
• 15:35
  I
• 15:35
  would
• 15:36
  say
• 15:36
  to
• 15:36
  dehumanize
• 15:37
  is
• 15:37
  to
• 15:37
  become
• 15:38
  inhumane,
• 15:38
  and
• 15:39
  to
• 15:39
  demonize
• 15:39
  is
• 15:40
  to
• 15:40
  become
• 15:40
  demonic.
• 15:41
  But
• 15:42
  can
• 15:42
  you
• 15:42
  talk
• 15:42
  to
• 15:42
  us
• 15:43
  about
• 15:44
  how
• 15:44
  do
• 15:44
  we
• 15:44
  reach
• 15:44
  out?
• 15:45
  How
• 15:45
  do
• 15:45
  we
• 15:45
  make
• 15:46
  space
• 15:47
  for.
• 15:48
  And
• 15:48
  there
• 15:48
  are
• 15:48
  those
• 15:49
  of
• 15:49
  us
• 15:49
  who
• 15:49
  have
• 15:50
  people
• 15:50
  in
• 15:50
  our
• 15:50
  own
• 15:50
  families
• 15:51
  who
• 15:51
  are.
• 15:51
  Right.
• 15:53
  Oriented
• 15:54
  in
• 15:54
  a.
• 15:54
  In
• 15:55
  a
• 15:55
  very
• 15:55
  different
• 15:55
  way.
• 15:56
  Right,
• 15:57
  right.
• 15:57
  Well,
• 15:58
  let
• 15:59
  me
• 15:59
  just
• 15:59
  say
• 15:59
  a
• 15:59
  couple
• 16:00
  of
• 16:00
  things.
• 16:00
  I'm
• 16:00
  not
• 16:00
  a
• 16:00
  cult
• 16:01
  deprogrammer.
• 16:02
  So
• 16:02
  my,
• 16:03
  my,
• 16:03
  you
• 16:03
  know,
• 16:03
  I've
• 16:04
  worked,
• 16:04
  but
• 16:04
  I've
• 16:04
  worked
• 16:04
  with
• 16:05
  a
• 16:05
  lot
• 16:05
  of
• 16:05
  abuse
• 16:06
  family
• 16:06
  dynamics,
• 16:07
  and
• 16:08
  they're
• 16:08
  similar.
• 16:10
  So
• 16:10
  I
• 16:10
  can
• 16:10
  speak
• 16:10
  from
• 16:11
  that
• 16:11
  perspective
• 16:12
  where
• 16:12
  one
• 16:12
  person
• 16:13
  or
• 16:13
  two
• 16:13
  in
• 16:13
  a
• 16:14
  family
• 16:14
  has
• 16:14
  ultimate
• 16:15
  power
• 16:15
  over
• 16:15
  everybody
• 16:16
  else.
• 16:17
  And
• 16:17
  there's
• 16:17
  no
• 16:19
  mechanism
• 16:19
  for
• 16:20
  safe
• 16:20
  feedback.
• 16:21
  There's
• 16:22
  no
• 16:22
  mechanism
• 16:22
  for
• 16:23
  safety,
• 16:23
  period.
• 16:24
  Right.
• 16:25
  So
• 16:25
  I
• 16:25
  think
• 16:25
  that's
• 16:26
  where
• 16:26
  there's
• 16:27
  a
• 16:27
  similarity.
• 16:27
  And
• 16:28
  I
• 16:28
  can
• 16:28
  speak
• 16:28
  from
• 16:28
  that
• 16:29
  point
• 16:29
  of
• 16:29
  view
• 16:30
  that
• 16:30
  you
• 16:31
  know
• 16:31
  so
• 16:31
  often
• 16:31
  and
• 16:31
  I
• 16:32
  talk
• 16:32
  about
• 16:32
  abuse
• 16:32
  dynamics
• 16:33
  in
• 16:33
  detail
• 16:34
  in
• 16:34
  my
• 16:34
  book
• 16:35
  because
• 16:35
  I
• 16:35
  think
• 16:35
  many
• 16:36
  people
• 16:36
  don't
• 16:36
  really
• 16:37
  know
• 16:38
  that
• 16:38
  they're
• 16:38
  abuse
• 16:39
  dynamics
• 16:39
  because
• 16:39
  they've
• 16:40
  either
• 16:40
  been
• 16:41
  brought
• 16:41
  up
• 16:41
  in
• 16:41
  them
• 16:42
  or
• 16:42
  they've
• 16:43
  been
• 16:43
  led
• 16:43
  to
• 16:43
  believe
• 16:44
  that
• 16:44
  power
• 16:45
  over
• 16:45
  others
• 16:45
  is
• 16:46
  acceptable,
• 16:46
  even
• 16:47
  if
• 16:47
  it's
• 16:47
  harmful
• 16:47
  to
• 16:48
  the
• 16:48
  people
• 16:48
  that
• 16:49
  they're
• 16:49
  impacting.
• 16:50
  So
• 16:50
  the
• 16:50
  first
• 16:50
  step
• 16:51
  is
• 16:51
  really
• 16:51
  to
• 16:51
  recognize
• 16:52
  what's
• 16:52
  happening.
• 16:53
  Absolutely.
• 16:55
  Absolutely.
• 16:56
  And
• 16:56
  not
• 16:56
  everybody's
• 16:57
  open
• 16:57
  to
• 16:57
  that,
• 16:58
  you
• 16:58
  know,
• 16:59
  so
• 16:59
  in
• 16:59
  my
• 17:00
  experience,
• 17:00
  you
• 17:01
  look
• 17:01
  for
• 17:01
  where
• 17:01
  there
• 17:02
  is
• 17:02
  an
• 17:02
  opening.
• 17:03
  If
• 17:03
  you
• 17:03
  really
• 17:03
  want
• 17:04
  to
• 17:05
  put
• 17:05
  in
• 17:05
  something
• 17:06
  that
• 17:06
  might
• 17:06
  be
• 17:07
  a
• 17:07
  little
• 17:07
  bit
• 17:07
  healing
• 17:08
  or
• 17:08
  a
• 17:08
  little
• 17:08
  bit
• 17:08
  opening
• 17:09
  the
• 17:09
  conversation
• 17:10
  to
• 17:10
  a
• 17:10
  new
• 17:10
  perspective,
• 17:12
  you
• 17:12
  look
• 17:12
  for
• 17:12
  an
• 17:13
  opening.
• 17:13
  And
• 17:14
  sometimes
• 17:15
  the
• 17:16
  opening
• 17:16
  is
• 17:17
  the
• 17:17
  other
• 17:17
  person's
• 17:18
  pain.
• 17:19
  That's
• 17:19
  usually
• 17:20
  what
• 17:20
  brings
• 17:20
  people
• 17:20
  to
• 17:21
  therapy
• 17:21
  and
• 17:21
  looking
• 17:22
  for
• 17:22
  a
• 17:22
  new
• 17:22
  way
• 17:22
  to
• 17:23
  be
• 17:23
  and
• 17:24
  heal
• 17:24
  in
• 17:24
  the
• 17:24
  first
• 17:25
  place.
• 17:25
  So
• 17:26
  if
• 17:26
  there's
• 17:26
  an
• 17:26
  opening
• 17:27
  through
• 17:27
  their
• 17:27
  own
• 17:27
  pain,
• 17:28
  that
• 17:28
  that
• 17:28
  can
• 17:29
  be
• 17:29
  a
• 17:29
  place
• 17:30
  where
• 17:30
  you
• 17:30
  might
• 17:30
  be
• 17:31
  able
• 17:31
  to
• 17:31
  touch
• 17:31
  the
• 17:31
  other
• 17:32
  person's
• 17:32
  heart
• 17:32
  and
• 17:33
  move
• 17:33
  behind
• 17:33
  their
• 17:34
  defenses.
• 17:35
  But
• 17:35
  attacking
• 17:36
  another
• 17:36
  person's
• 17:37
  defenses
• 17:38
  or
• 17:38
  butting
• 17:39
  up
• 17:39
  against
• 17:39
  them
• 17:40
  usually
• 17:40
  doesn't
• 17:41
  work.
• 17:41
  And
• 17:42
  so,
• 17:42
  I
• 17:42
  mean,
• 17:43
  I,
• 17:43
  I
• 17:43
  don't
• 17:43
  see
• 17:43
  it
• 17:44
  work,
• 17:44
  period,
• 17:45
  because
• 17:45
  it
• 17:45
  usually
• 17:46
  just
• 17:46
  reinforces
• 17:47
  those
• 17:47
  defenses.
• 17:48
  So
• 17:49
  part
• 17:49
  of
• 17:49
  the
• 17:49
  work
• 17:50
  is
• 17:50
  to
• 17:50
  put
• 17:51
  our
• 17:51
  own
• 17:51
  down,
• 17:52
  is
• 17:52
  to
• 17:52
  really
• 17:52
  work
• 17:53
  on
• 17:53
  putting
• 17:53
  our
• 17:53
  own
• 17:54
  defenses
• 17:54
  down,
• 17:55
  having
• 17:55
  an
• 17:56
  open
• 17:56
  heart
• 17:56
  and
• 17:56
  an
• 17:57
  open
• 17:57
  mind.
• 17:58
  And
• 17:58
  to
• 17:59
  your
• 17:59
  point,
• 17:59
  Adam,
• 18:00
  about
• 18:00
  being
• 18:00
  safe,
• 18:01
  if
• 18:01
  it's
• 18:01
  really
• 18:01
  not
• 18:02
  safe
• 18:02
  to
• 18:02
  venture
• 18:03
  there,
• 18:03
  don't
• 18:03
  go
• 18:03
  there.
• 18:04
  Go
• 18:05
  where
• 18:05
  there's
• 18:05
  an
• 18:05
  opening.
• 18:07
  I
• 18:07
  don't
• 18:07
  know
• 18:08
  where
• 18:08
  the
• 18:08
  tipping
• 18:08
  point
• 18:09
  is
• 18:09
  for
• 18:09
  America,
• 18:11
  but
• 18:11
  I
• 18:11
  think
• 18:12
  it,
• 18:12
  it.
• 18:13
  If
• 18:13
  we're
• 18:13
  going
• 18:13
  to
• 18:13
  reach
• 18:14
  a
• 18:14
  tipping
• 18:14
  point
• 18:15
  where
• 18:15
  we
• 18:15
  come
• 18:15
  back
• 18:16
  to
• 18:16
  some
• 18:16
  state
• 18:16
  of
• 18:17
  mental
• 18:17
  health
• 18:17
  and
• 18:18
  care
• 18:18
  for
• 18:19
  our
• 18:19
  brother
• 18:19
  and
• 18:20
  sister
• 18:20
  human
• 18:20
  beings
• 18:21
  and
• 18:21
  really
• 18:21
  want
• 18:22
  to
• 18:23
  create
• 18:23
  policies
• 18:24
  that
• 18:24
  reflect
• 18:25
  that
• 18:25
  we're
• 18:25
  a
• 18:26
  family
• 18:26
  of
• 18:27
  mankind
• 18:27
  and
• 18:28
  not
• 18:28
  separate
• 18:29
  parties,
• 18:30
  then
• 18:30
  I
• 18:30
  think
• 18:30
  we,
• 18:31
  we
• 18:31
  have
• 18:31
  to
• 18:32
  find
• 18:32
  that
• 18:32
  healing
• 18:33
  in
• 18:33
  ourselves
• 18:33
  that
• 18:34
  we
• 18:34
  bring
• 18:34
  that
• 18:34
  vibr
• 18:36
  into
• 18:36
  the
• 18:36
  world.
• 18:37
  It
• 18:37
  may
• 18:37
  be
• 18:37
  in
• 18:37
  words,
• 18:38
  it
• 18:38
  may
• 18:38
  be
• 18:38
  in
• 18:39
  actions.
• 18:39
  It
• 18:39
  may
• 18:40
  be
• 18:40
  in
• 18:40
  leaving
• 18:40
  the
• 18:41
  scene
• 18:41
  of
• 18:42
  something
• 18:42
  that's
• 18:42
  violent
• 18:43
  because
• 18:43
  it's
• 18:44
  not
• 18:44
  safe
• 18:44
  to
• 18:44
  be
• 18:44
  there.
• 18:45
  And
• 18:45
  there's
• 18:45
  nothing
• 18:45
  to
• 18:46
  do
• 18:46
  that
• 18:46
  could
• 18:47
  actually
• 18:47
  impact.
• 18:48
  May
• 18:49
  be
• 18:49
  writing
• 18:49
  articles,
• 18:50
  it
• 18:50
  may
• 18:50
  be
• 18:50
  doing
• 18:50
  podcasts,
• 18:51
  it
• 18:51
  may
• 18:51
  be
• 18:52
  being
• 18:52
  a
• 18:52
  better
• 18:53
  friend
• 18:53
  or
• 18:53
  parent.
• 18:54
  You
• 18:54
  know,
• 18:54
  there's.
• 18:55
  I
• 18:55
  really
• 18:56
  believe
• 18:56
  we
• 18:56
  all
• 18:57
  have
• 18:57
  something
• 18:57
  we
• 18:58
  can
• 18:58
  contribute
• 18:58
  and
• 18:59
  it
• 18:59
  doesn't
• 18:59
  have
• 18:59
  to
• 18:59
  be
• 19:00
  that
• 19:00
  we
• 19:00
  affect
• 19:00
  tens
• 19:01
  of
• 19:01
  thousands
• 19:01
  of
• 19:02
  people.
• 19:03
  But
• 19:03
  if
• 19:03
  our
• 19:03
  mission
• 19:04
  is
• 19:04
  to
• 19:04
  have
• 19:04
  a
• 19:05
  voice,
• 19:05
  if
• 19:05
  our
• 19:05
  mission
• 19:06
  is
• 19:06
  to
• 19:06
  clean
• 19:06
  up
• 19:06
  the
• 19:07
  water
• 19:07
  supply,
• 19:08
  run
• 19:08
  for
• 19:08
  office
• 19:09
  or
• 19:09
  work
• 19:09
  for
• 19:10
  women's
• 19:10
  rights
• 19:10
  or
• 19:11
  racial
• 19:11
  equality,
• 19:12
  then
• 19:12
  that's
• 19:13
  what
• 19:13
  we
• 19:13
  do.
• 19:14
  And
• 19:14
  for
• 19:14
  somebody
• 19:15
  else,
• 19:15
  it
• 19:15
  might
• 19:15
  just
• 19:16
  be,
• 19:17
  I
• 19:18
  take
• 19:18
  care
• 19:19
  of,
• 19:19
  I
• 19:19
  grow
• 19:20
  trees,
• 19:20
  you
• 19:20
  know,
• 19:21
  in
• 19:21
  my
• 19:21
  backyard
• 19:23
  and
• 19:23
  it
• 19:24
  all
• 19:24
  matters.
• 19:25
  And
• 19:25
  I.
• 19:25
  Because
• 19:26
  I
• 19:26
  think.
• 19:26
  Go
• 19:27
  ahead,
• 19:27
  go
• 19:27
  ahead.
• 19:28
  Well,
• 19:28
  I
• 19:28
  really
• 19:28
  appreciate
• 19:29
  what
• 19:29
  I've
• 19:30
  been
• 19:30
  doing
• 19:30
  and
• 19:30
  what
• 19:30
  Adam
• 19:31
  has
• 19:31
  been
• 19:31
  doing
• 19:31
  before
• 19:32
  they
• 19:32
  closed
• 19:32
  down
• 19:32
  our
• 19:33
  philosophy
• 19:33
  department,
• 19:33
  which
• 19:34
  is
• 19:34
  to
• 19:35
  teach
• 19:35
  critical
• 19:35
  thinking
• 19:36
  to
• 19:36
  18
• 19:36
  and
• 19:36
  19
• 19:37
  year
• 19:37
  old
• 19:37
  people.
• 19:38
  Wow.
• 19:39
  And
• 19:39
  it's
• 19:39
  just
• 19:40
  a,
• 19:41
  a
• 19:41
  real
• 19:42
  deep
• 19:42
  joy
• 19:43
  to
• 19:43
  assist
• 19:44
  these
• 19:44
  young
• 19:45
  people
• 19:46
  to
• 19:46
  go,
• 19:46
  wait,
• 19:47
  this
• 19:48
  is
• 19:49
  seemed.
• 19:50
  This
• 19:50
  argument
• 19:50
  seems
• 19:50
  to
• 19:51
  follow
• 19:51
  through,
• 19:51
  but
• 19:52
  this
• 19:52
  other
• 19:52
  argument
• 19:53
  seems
• 19:53
  to
• 19:53
  be
• 19:53
  bs,
• 19:54
  you
• 19:55
  know,
• 19:57
  so.
• 20:00
  And
• 20:00
  both
• 20:00
  Adam
• 20:01
  and
• 20:01
  I
• 20:01
  are
• 20:01
  trained
• 20:01
  in
• 20:01
  Chinese
• 20:02
  philosophy.
• 20:02
  And
• 20:03
  one
• 20:03
  of
• 20:03
  the
• 20:03
  ways
• 20:03
  that
• 20:04
  I,
• 20:04
  I
• 20:04
  think
• 20:05
  at
• 20:05
  least,
• 20:05
  and
• 20:05
  I
• 20:05
  know
• 20:06
  I'm
• 20:06
  kind
• 20:06
  of
• 20:06
  dominating
• 20:07
  the
• 20:07
  conversation
• 20:07
  a
• 20:07
  bit
• 20:08
  here,
• 20:08
  is
• 20:08
  to
• 20:09
  make
• 20:09
  space
• 20:10
  for
• 20:11
  whatever
• 20:11
  people
• 20:12
  are
• 20:13
  doing
• 20:14
  and
• 20:15
  to
• 20:15
  develop.
• 20:16
  I
• 20:16
  never
• 20:17
  ask
• 20:17
  my
• 20:17
  students,
• 20:18
  do
• 20:18
  you
• 20:18
  trust
• 20:18
  me?
• 20:19
  I
• 20:19
  ask
• 20:20
  my
• 20:20
  students,
• 20:21
  do
• 20:21
  you
• 20:21
  feel
• 20:21
  that
• 20:21
  trust
• 20:22
  is
• 20:22
  being
• 20:22
  built
• 20:23
  in
• 20:24
  our
• 20:24
  classroom?
• 20:25
  Yeah.
• 20:25
  And
• 20:26
  what
• 20:26
  are
• 20:26
  your,
• 20:27
  what
• 20:27
  are
• 20:27
  your
• 20:27
  thoughts
• 20:27
  about
• 20:27
  this,
• 20:28
  Adam?
• 20:28
  Well.
• 20:29
  Oh,
• 20:29
  go
• 20:29
  ahead,
• 20:30
  go
• 20:30
  ahead.
• 20:30
  You
• 20:30
  go,
• 20:31
  Phyllis,
• 20:31
  go
• 20:31
  ahead.
• 20:32
  Well,
• 20:32
  I
• 20:32
  was
• 20:32
  just
• 20:33
  going
• 20:33
  to
• 20:33
  say
• 20:33
  kind
• 20:33
  of,
• 20:33
  that's
• 20:34
  the
• 20:34
  heart
• 20:34
  of
• 20:34
  psychotherapy
• 20:35
  of
• 20:35
  good
• 20:35
  psychotherapy
• 20:36
  is.
• 20:38
  Is
• 20:39
  healing
• 20:39
  your
• 20:40
  own
• 20:40
  wounds
• 20:40
  or
• 20:40
  your
• 20:41
  own
• 20:41
  biases
• 20:42
  or
• 20:42
  your
• 20:42
  own
• 20:42
  dysfunctional
• 20:43
  behaviors
• 20:43
  enough
• 20:44
  that
• 20:44
  you
• 20:45
  can
• 20:45
  be
• 20:45
  open
• 20:45
  to
• 20:46
  another
• 20:46
  point
• 20:46
  of
• 20:46
  view,
• 20:47
  that
• 20:47
  you're
• 20:48
  actually
• 20:48
  willing
• 20:49
  to
• 20:49
  hear
• 20:49
  someone
• 20:49
  else's
• 20:50
  pain
• 20:50
  and
• 20:51
  not
• 20:51
  just
• 20:51
  want
• 20:51
  to
• 20:52
  be
• 20:52
  heard
• 20:52
  yourself.
• 20:53
  Because
• 20:53
  that's
• 20:53
  kind
• 20:54
  of
• 20:54
  the
• 20:54
  culture
• 20:54
  we
• 20:55
  have
• 20:55
  grown
• 20:55
  up
• 20:55
  in,
• 20:56
  that
• 20:56
  I'm
• 20:57
  right,
• 20:57
  you're
• 20:57
  wrong,
• 20:58
  you
• 20:58
  need
• 20:58
  to
• 20:58
  hear
• 20:59
  me,
• 20:59
  and
• 21:00
  I
• 21:00
  don't
• 21:00
  need
• 21:00
  to
• 21:01
  hear
• 21:01
  you.
• 21:01
  You
• 21:01
  need
• 21:02
  to
• 21:02
  ascribe
• 21:03
  to
• 21:03
  my
• 21:03
  point
• 21:03
  of
• 21:03
  view.
• 21:04
  Right.
• 21:04
  I
• 21:05
  really
• 21:05
  appreciate
• 21:05
  the
• 21:05
  work
• 21:06
  of
• 21:06
  Brene
• 21:06
  Brown
• 21:07
  in
• 21:07
  this
• 21:07
  model.
• 21:08
  Totally,
• 21:09
  you
• 21:09
  know,
• 21:09
  totally
• 21:09
  about
• 21:10
  where
• 21:10
  she
• 21:10
  talks
• 21:11
  about
• 21:11
  vulnerability
• 21:12
  as
• 21:13
  an
• 21:13
  ultimate
• 21:14
  strength.
• 21:15
  And
• 21:15
  it
• 21:15
  is,
• 21:16
  and
• 21:16
  it
• 21:17
  is.
• 21:17
  And
• 21:17
  when.
• 21:18
  When
• 21:19
  you
• 21:19
  can
• 21:19
  lead
• 21:19
  with
• 21:20
  your
• 21:20
  own
• 21:20
  vulnerability,
• 21:21
  you're
• 21:21
  more
• 21:22
  likely
• 21:23
  to
• 21:24
  find
• 21:24
  an
• 21:24
  openness
• 21:25
  to
• 21:25
  someone
• 21:25
  else's
• 21:26
  vulnerability.
• 21:27
  But
• 21:27
  you
• 21:27
  may
• 21:28
  not.
• 21:28
  And
• 21:29
  we
• 21:29
  have
• 21:29
  to
• 21:29
  know
• 21:29
  that.
• 21:30
  That
• 21:30
  sometimes
• 21:31
  opening
• 21:31
  your
• 21:32
  vulnerability
• 21:33
  only
• 21:33
  gives
• 21:34
  certain
• 21:34
  people
• 21:35
  who
• 21:35
  are
• 21:35
  wounded
• 21:36
  enough
• 21:36
  more
• 21:36
  ammunition
• 21:37
  to
• 21:37
  attack
• 21:37
  you
• 21:38
  with.
• 21:38
  And
• 21:39
  we
• 21:39
  just
• 21:39
  have
• 21:39
  to
• 21:39
  know
• 21:40
  these
• 21:40
  things
• 21:41
  and
• 21:42
  really
• 21:42
  safeguard
• 21:43
  against
• 21:43
  them
• 21:43
  by
• 21:44
  educating
• 21:44
  ourselves
• 21:45
  about
• 21:46
  what.
• 21:46
  How
• 21:47
  we're
• 21:47
  made
• 21:48
  psychologically,
• 21:50
  what
• 21:50
  produces
• 21:51
  our
• 21:51
  wounds,
• 21:52
  and
• 21:52
  what
• 21:52
  helps
• 21:52
  heal
• 21:53
  them.
• 21:54
  But
• 21:54
  the
• 21:54
  de.
• 21:55
  I
• 21:56
  mean,
• 21:56
  that's
• 21:56
  the
• 21:56
  heart
• 21:56
  of
• 21:56
  therapy,
• 21:57
  right?
• 21:58
  You
• 21:58
  go
• 21:58
  to
• 21:58
  a
• 21:58
  therapist
• 21:59
  who's
• 21:59
  really
• 21:59
  going
• 22:00
  to
• 22:00
  hear
• 22:00
  you,
• 22:01
  who's
• 22:01
  going
• 22:01
  to
• 22:01
  see
• 22:02
  you,
• 22:02
  who's
• 22:03
  going
• 22:03
  to
• 22:03
  affirm
• 22:03
  the
• 22:04
  good
• 22:04
  in
• 22:04
  you,
• 22:04
  the
• 22:05
  innocent
• 22:06
  being
• 22:06
  that
• 22:06
  you
• 22:07
  were
• 22:07
  born
• 22:07
  into
• 22:08
  this
• 22:08
  body
• 22:09
  in.
• 22:10
  Regardless
• 22:10
  of
• 22:11
  what's
• 22:11
  happened
• 22:11
  to
• 22:11
  you
• 22:12
  and
• 22:12
  regardless
• 22:12
  what
• 22:13
  you
• 22:13
  may
• 22:13
  have
• 22:13
  done,
• 22:13
  that's
• 22:14
  hurtful,
• 22:15
  because
• 22:15
  we
• 22:15
  all
• 22:15
  have.
• 22:17
  We've
• 22:17
  been
• 22:17
  hurt
• 22:17
  and
• 22:18
  we've
• 22:18
  been
• 22:18
  hurtful,
• 22:19
  and
• 22:19
  that's
• 22:20
  the
• 22:20
  human
• 22:20
  condition
• 22:21
  right
• 22:21
  now.
• 22:22
  And
• 22:22
  so
• 22:23
  the
• 22:23
  heart
• 22:23
  of
• 22:24
  therapy
• 22:25
  I'm
• 22:25
  going
• 22:25
  back
• 22:25
  to
• 22:25
  is
• 22:26
  really
• 22:26
  to
• 22:26
  be
• 22:26
  seen
• 22:27
  in
• 22:27
  a
• 22:27
  safe
• 22:27
  way
• 22:28
  by
• 22:29
  someone
• 22:29
  who
• 22:30
  actually
• 22:30
  wants
• 22:30
  the
• 22:31
  best
• 22:31
  for
• 22:31
  you,
• 22:32
  somebody
• 22:32
  who
• 22:33
  wants
• 22:33
  to
• 22:33
  see
• 22:33
  you
• 22:33
  heal
• 22:34
  your
• 22:34
  wounds
• 22:34
  and
• 22:35
  fulfill
• 22:35
  your
• 22:35
  life's
• 22:36
  purpose
• 22:36
  in
• 22:37
  a
• 22:37
  meaningful
• 22:37
  and
• 22:38
  constructive
• 22:39
  and
• 22:39
  fulfilling
• 22:39
  way.
• 22:42
  So
• 22:43
  these
• 22:44
  are
• 22:44
  fundamental
• 22:45
  to
• 22:45
  healing.
• 22:46
  And
• 22:46
  what
• 22:46
  if
• 22:47
  we
• 22:47
  had
• 22:47
  a
• 22:47
  society
• 22:48
  that
• 22:48
  was
• 22:48
  actually
• 22:49
  directing
• 22:50
  us
• 22:50
  in
• 22:50
  that
• 22:50
  direction?
• 22:52
  And
• 22:52
  I
• 22:52
  don't
• 22:52
  know
• 22:53
  how
• 22:53
  we
• 22:53
  get
• 22:53
  there,
• 22:53
  except
• 22:54
  to
• 22:54
  keep
• 22:54
  talking
• 22:55
  about
• 22:55
  it
• 22:55
  and
• 22:55
  being
• 22:56
  it,
• 22:56
  ourselves,
• 22:57
  our
• 22:57
  imperfect
• 22:58
  selves,
• 22:59
  the
• 22:59
  best
• 22:59
  we
• 22:59
  can.
• 23:00
  I
• 23:00
  think
• 23:00
  we're
• 23:01
  all
• 23:01
  doing
• 23:01
  it.
• 23:01
  So.
• 23:02
  And
• 23:02
  what
• 23:02
  is
• 23:03
  your
• 23:03
  experience
• 23:03
  in
• 23:03
  the
• 23:04
  classroom,
• 23:04
  Adam,
• 23:04
  with
• 23:05
  this
• 23:05
  kind
• 23:05
  of
• 23:06
  modality
• 23:07
  of.
• 23:07
  And
• 23:08
  even
• 23:08
  in
• 23:08
  the
• 23:08
  world,
• 23:08
  I
• 23:09
  guess.
• 23:10
  Well,
• 23:10
  let's
• 23:10
  think
• 23:10
  about
• 23:11
  that
• 23:11
  for
• 23:11
  a
• 23:11
  second.
• 23:11
  What
• 23:12
  I
• 23:12
  want
• 23:12
  to
• 23:12
  say,
• 23:13
  first
• 23:13
  of
• 23:13
  all,
• 23:14
  Phyllis,
• 23:14
  I
• 23:14
  really
• 23:15
  love
• 23:15
  what
• 23:15
  you're
• 23:15
  saying.
• 23:15
  I
• 23:16
  feel
• 23:16
  like
• 23:16
  I'm
• 23:16
  in
• 23:16
  therapy
• 23:16
  right
• 23:17
  now,
• 23:17
  just
• 23:17
  hearing
• 23:17
  it.
• 23:19
  And.
• 23:20
  And
• 23:20
  that
• 23:21
  speaks
• 23:21
  to
• 23:22
  our
• 23:22
  humanity
• 23:23
  when
• 23:23
  you
• 23:23
  talk
• 23:23
  about
• 23:23
  our
• 23:24
  Innocence.
• 23:26
  We
• 23:26
  have
• 23:26
  layers
• 23:26
  of
• 23:27
  who
• 23:27
  we
• 23:27
  are.
• 23:27
  And
• 23:27
  that
• 23:27
  innocent
• 23:28
  person
• 23:28
  inside
• 23:28
  us
• 23:29
  is
• 23:29
  our
• 23:29
  pure
• 23:29
  humanity.
• 23:30
  And
• 23:30
  that's
• 23:31
  what
• 23:31
  we
• 23:31
  all
• 23:31
  have,
• 23:31
  and
• 23:31
  that's
• 23:32
  what
• 23:32
  we
• 23:32
  all
• 23:32
  have
• 23:32
  to
• 23:33
  join.
• 23:34
  The
• 23:34
  other
• 23:34
  thing
• 23:35
  that
• 23:35
  comes
• 23:35
  to
• 23:35
  mind
• 23:35
  as
• 23:35
  you're
• 23:36
  both
• 23:36
  speaking
• 23:37
  is
• 23:37
  that
• 23:38
  it's
• 23:39
  so
• 23:39
  interesting
• 23:40
  that
• 23:40
  you
• 23:40
  are
• 23:40
  involved
• 23:41
  with
• 23:41
  family
• 23:41
  dynamics,
• 23:42
  because
• 23:43
  in
• 23:43
  Confucian
• 23:44
  philosophy,
• 23:45
  it
• 23:45
  starts
• 23:45
  from
• 23:45
  inside
• 23:46
  yourself.
• 23:46
  And
• 23:46
  the
• 23:47
  first
• 23:47
  place
• 23:47
  you
• 23:47
  practice
• 23:47
  it
• 23:48
  is
• 23:48
  in
• 23:48
  your
• 23:48
  family.
• 23:49
  When
• 23:49
  you
• 23:49
  learn
• 23:50
  how
• 23:50
  to
• 23:50
  harmonize
• 23:50
  with
• 23:50
  your
• 23:51
  family,
• 23:51
  then
• 23:52
  you
• 23:52
  are
• 23:52
  modeled
• 23:53
  how
• 23:53
  to
• 23:53
  interact
• 23:53
  with
• 23:54
  the
• 23:54
  rest
• 23:54
  of
• 23:54
  the
• 23:54
  outside
• 23:54
  world.
• 23:55
  That's
• 23:55
  right.
• 23:56
  So
• 23:56
  when
• 23:56
  you.
• 23:56
  As
• 23:56
  you're
• 23:57
  speaking
• 23:57
  about
• 23:57
  family,
• 23:58
  it
• 23:59
  really
• 23:59
  resonates
• 24:00
  for
• 24:00
  me
• 24:00
  as
• 24:00
  far
• 24:00
  as
• 24:01
  the
• 24:01
  classroom
• 24:01
  goes
• 24:01
  and
• 24:02
  as
• 24:02
  far
• 24:02
  as
• 24:03
  just
• 24:03
  in
• 24:04
  general.
• 24:04
  I'm
• 24:05
  writing
• 24:05
  an
• 24:05
  article
• 24:05
  right
• 24:06
  now
• 24:06
  that
• 24:06
  has
• 24:06
  a
• 24:06
  section
• 24:07
  on
• 24:07
  readiness.
• 24:08
  So.
• 24:09
  So
• 24:09
  when
• 24:09
  your
• 24:09
  student
• 24:10
  or
• 24:11
  anyone,
• 24:11
  you're
• 24:11
  talking
• 24:11
  about
• 24:12
  vulnerability,
• 24:12
  okay?
• 24:13
  So
• 24:13
  if
• 24:14
  your
• 24:14
  student
• 24:14
  is
• 24:14
  ready,
• 24:15
  then
• 24:16
  they'll
• 24:17
  make
• 24:17
  the
• 24:17
  jump.
• 24:19
  If
• 24:19
  your
• 24:20
  patient,
• 24:20
  I
• 24:20
  imagine,
• 24:21
  in
• 24:21
  therapy
• 24:21
  is
• 24:21
  ready,
• 24:22
  then
• 24:22
  they'll
• 24:23
  make
• 24:23
  a
• 24:23
  leap
• 24:23
  forward.
• 24:24
  But
• 24:24
  it
• 24:24
  has
• 24:25
  to
• 24:25
  do
• 24:25
  with
• 24:25
  readiness.
• 24:26
  And
• 24:26
  sometimes
• 24:27
  that
• 24:27
  vulnerability
• 24:27
  comes
• 24:28
  when
• 24:28
  you're
• 24:28
  at
• 24:28
  a
• 24:29
  time.
• 24:29
  I
• 24:29
  think
• 24:29
  all
• 24:29
  of
• 24:30
  us
• 24:30
  who
• 24:30
  have
• 24:30
  had
• 24:31
  any
• 24:31
  kind
• 24:31
  of
• 24:31
  insight
• 24:32
  or
• 24:32
  breakthrough,
• 24:33
  we've
• 24:33
  all
• 24:34
  had
• 24:34
  a
• 24:34
  moment
• 24:34
  of
• 24:34
  readiness
• 24:35
  where
• 24:36
  we
• 24:36
  maybe
• 24:37
  hit
• 24:37
  rock
• 24:37
  bottom.
• 24:38
  We
• 24:39
  saw
• 24:39
  a
• 24:39
  pattern
• 24:39
  that
• 24:39
  we
• 24:40
  didn't
• 24:40
  want
• 24:40
  to
• 24:40
  live
• 24:40
  anymore,
• 24:41
  and
• 24:41
  we
• 24:41
  were
• 24:41
  ready
• 24:42
  to
• 24:42
  take
• 24:42
  the
• 24:42
  next
• 24:42
  step.
• 24:43
  So
• 24:44
  as
• 24:44
  you're
• 24:44
  speaking,
• 24:44
  I'm
• 24:45
  thinking
• 24:45
  about,
• 24:45
  for
• 24:45
  students
• 24:46
  or
• 24:46
  for
• 24:46
  anyone,
• 24:47
  just
• 24:48
  this
• 24:48
  concept
• 24:48
  of
• 24:49
  when
• 24:49
  we're
• 24:49
  ready,
• 24:50
  when
• 24:50
  we're
• 24:50
  vulnerable,
• 24:51
  then
• 24:51
  we
• 24:52
  can
• 24:52
  take
• 24:52
  the
• 24:52
  next
• 24:52
  step.
• 24:53
  And
• 24:53
  it's.
• 24:54
  You
• 24:54
  know,
• 24:54
  we
• 24:54
  live
• 24:54
  in
• 24:54
  a
• 24:55
  business
• 24:55
  kind
• 24:55
  of
• 24:56
  evangelical
• 24:56
  society.
• 24:57
  We're
• 24:57
  always
• 24:57
  trying
• 24:57
  to
• 24:57
  push
• 24:57
  our
• 24:58
  views
• 24:58
  on
• 24:58
  other
• 24:58
  people.
• 24:59
  If
• 25:00
  they're
• 25:00
  not
• 25:00
  ready,
• 25:01
  they're
• 25:01
  not
• 25:01
  gonna
• 25:01
  make
• 25:02
  a
• 25:02
  breakthrough.
• 25:02
  So
• 25:03
  it
• 25:03
  has
• 25:03
  to
• 25:03
  come
• 25:03
  from
• 25:04
  within.
• 25:05
  Right?
• 25:05
  I
• 25:06
  really
• 25:06
  think
• 25:06
  that's
• 25:06
  true.
• 25:07
  And
• 25:07
  I
• 25:07
  think.
• 25:08
  I
• 25:08
  think
• 25:09
  pain
• 25:09
  is
• 25:09
  the
• 25:09
  biggest
• 25:10
  readiness
• 25:10
  element.
• 25:11
  Or
• 25:12
  maybe
• 25:12
  there's
• 25:12
  two.
• 25:13
  I
• 25:13
  would
• 25:13
  say,
• 25:14
  in
• 25:14
  my
• 25:14
  own
• 25:14
  life,
• 25:14
  I'll
• 25:15
  speak
• 25:15
  for
• 25:15
  my.
• 25:16
  And,
• 25:16
  you
• 25:16
  know,
• 25:16
  I
• 25:16
  think
• 25:17
  this
• 25:17
  has
• 25:17
  been
• 25:17
  reflected
• 25:18
  in
• 25:18
  many
• 25:18
  of
• 25:18
  the
• 25:19
  clients
• 25:19
  that
• 25:19
  I've
• 25:20
  worked
• 25:20
  with
• 25:20
  over
• 25:20
  the
• 25:20
  years.
• 25:21
  I
• 25:21
  think
• 25:21
  there
• 25:22
  were
• 25:22
  two
• 25:22
  big
• 25:22
  elements.
• 25:23
  One
• 25:23
  was
• 25:24
  that
• 25:24
  some
• 25:25
  part
• 25:25
  of
• 25:25
  me,
• 25:26
  no
• 25:26
  matter
• 25:27
  how
• 25:27
  buried
• 25:27
  it
• 25:28
  was
• 25:28
  under
• 25:28
  layers
• 25:29
  of
• 25:29
  my
• 25:30
  own
• 25:30
  personal
• 25:30
  trauma,
• 25:32
  never
• 25:32
  lost
• 25:33
  complete
• 25:34
  connection
• 25:35
  to
• 25:35
  my
• 25:35
  essential
• 25:36
  self.
• 25:37
  And
• 25:37
  that
• 25:37
  essential
• 25:38
  self
• 25:39
  was
• 25:39
  always
• 25:40
  striving
• 25:41
  to
• 25:41
  find
• 25:42
  life
• 25:42
  and
• 25:43
  embodiment
• 25:43
  in
• 25:44
  my
• 25:44
  living,
• 25:45
  in
• 25:45
  my
• 25:45
  daily
• 25:45
  life
• 25:46
  and
• 25:46
  in
• 25:46
  my
• 25:46
  personal
• 25:47
  expression
• 25:47
  and
• 25:48
  in
• 25:48
  relationship.
• 25:49
  The
• 25:49
  other
• 25:50
  big
• 25:50
  factor
• 25:50
  was
• 25:50
  the
• 25:51
  pain
• 25:51
  of
• 25:51
  not
• 25:51
  having
• 25:52
  that,
• 25:52
  you
• 25:53
  know?
• 25:54
  And
• 25:54
  so
• 25:54
  those
• 25:55
  two
• 25:55
  things
• 25:55
  together
• 25:56
  created
• 25:57
  a
• 25:57
  readiness
• 25:57
  in
• 25:58
  me,
• 25:58
  and
• 25:58
  I've
• 25:58
  seen
• 25:59
  that
• 25:59
  in
• 25:59
  many,
• 25:59
  many
• 26:00
  people.
• 26:02
  And
• 26:02
  in
• 26:03
  one
• 26:03
  of
• 26:04
  my
• 26:04
  wonderings
• 26:04
  for
• 26:05
  the
• 26:05
  family
• 26:05
  of
• 26:06
  America
• 26:06
  and
• 26:06
  the
• 26:06
  family
• 26:07
  of
• 26:07
  mankind
• 26:08
  is
• 26:10
  how
• 26:10
  can
• 26:10
  we
• 26:11
  help
• 26:11
  ignite
• 26:12
  that?
• 26:12
  You
• 26:12
  know,
• 26:13
  that
• 26:13
  seeing
• 26:14
  the
• 26:14
  essence
• 26:14
  in
• 26:14
  one
• 26:15
  another
• 26:15
  and
• 26:15
  feeding
• 26:16
  that
• 26:17
  through
• 26:17
  our
• 26:17
  goodwill
• 26:19
  and
• 26:20
  responding
• 26:20
  to
• 26:20
  the
• 26:21
  pain
• 26:21
  appropriately,
• 26:22
  which
• 26:22
  might
• 26:23
  be
• 26:23
  putting
• 26:23
  limits
• 26:24
  on
• 26:24
  the
• 26:24
  way
• 26:24
  certain
• 26:25
  people
• 26:25
  act,
• 26:26
  but
• 26:26
  also
• 26:27
  really
• 26:27
  hearing
• 26:28
  the
• 26:28
  pain
• 26:29
  and
• 26:29
  addressing
• 26:30
  it
• 26:30
  at
• 26:30
  its
• 26:30
  core
• 26:31
  so
• 26:31
  that
• 26:31
  there's
• 26:32
  a
• 26:32
  possibility
• 26:33
  of
• 26:33
  healing
• 26:34
  and
• 26:34
  recovery.
• 26:35
  I've
• 26:36
  had
• 26:36
  many
• 26:36
  people
• 26:37
  in
• 26:37
  my
• 26:37
  practice
• 26:38
  who
• 26:40
  weren't
• 26:41
  treating
• 26:41
  their
• 26:41
  children
• 26:42
  or
• 26:42
  their
• 26:42
  spouses
• 26:42
  very
• 26:43
  well.
• 26:44
  And
• 26:44
  when
• 26:44
  they
• 26:45
  were
• 26:45
  allowed
• 26:46
  in
• 26:46
  a
• 26:46
  safe
• 26:46
  place
• 26:47
  to
• 26:47
  really
• 26:47
  go
• 26:47
  into
• 26:48
  their
• 26:48
  own
• 26:48
  pain
• 26:49
  and
• 26:49
  trauma
• 26:49
  and
• 26:50
  early
• 26:50
  conditioning
• 26:51
  that
• 26:51
  set
• 26:51
  them
• 26:52
  up
• 26:52
  to
• 26:53
  be
• 26:53
  the
• 26:53
  way
• 26:53
  they
• 26:53
  were
• 26:54
  being
• 26:54
  harmful
• 26:54
  to
• 26:55
  others,
• 26:55
  they
• 26:56
  automatically
• 26:57
  saw
• 26:58
  how
• 26:58
  they
• 26:58
  were
• 26:58
  being
• 26:59
  in
• 26:59
  their
• 26:59
  present
• 26:59
  life
• 27:00
  and
• 27:00
  wanted
• 27:01
  to
• 27:01
  correct
• 27:01
  that.
• 27:03
  They
• 27:03
  didn't
• 27:04
  have
• 27:04
  to
• 27:04
  be
• 27:04
  shamed
• 27:04
  and
• 27:05
  blamed.
• 27:05
  And
• 27:05
  like
• 27:05
  you
• 27:06
  shouldn't
• 27:06
  do
• 27:06
  that.
• 27:06
  And
• 27:07
  that's
• 27:07
  not
• 27:07
  right.
• 27:08
  That's
• 27:08
  not
• 27:08
  therapy.
• 27:09
  But,
• 27:10
  but
• 27:10
  they,
• 27:10
  it
• 27:11
  wasn't
• 27:11
  necessary.
• 27:12
  They
• 27:12
  saw
• 27:13
  it
• 27:13
  from
• 27:13
  their
• 27:14
  own
• 27:15
  feeling,
• 27:15
  their
• 27:15
  own
• 27:16
  victimization
• 27:16
  and
• 27:17
  their
• 27:17
  own
• 27:17
  understanding,
• 27:18
  their
• 27:18
  own
• 27:18
  coping
• 27:19
  mechanisms.
• 27:19
  They
• 27:20
  saw
• 27:20
  how
• 27:21
  they
• 27:21
  could
• 27:22
  be
• 27:23
  different
• 27:23
  in
• 27:23
  their
• 27:23
  relationship
• 27:24
  life.
• 27:25
  Well,
• 27:25
  we're
• 27:26
  coming
• 27:26
  up
• 27:26
  in
• 27:26
  another
• 27:26
  break.
• 27:27
  I'm
• 27:27
  Anthony
• 27:27
  Wright.
• 27:28
  I've
• 27:28
  been
• 27:28
  your,
• 27:28
  I'm
• 27:28
  your
• 27:28
  host
• 27:29
  today
• 27:29
  on
• 27:29
  the
• 27:29
  Living
• 27:30
  Conversation
• 27:30
  with
• 27:31
  my
• 27:31
  co
• 27:31
  host,
• 27:32
  Adam
• 27:32
  Dietz.
• 27:33
  And
• 27:33
  we
• 27:34
  are
• 27:34
  speaking
• 27:34
  with
• 27:34
  our
• 27:35
  guest
• 27:35
  Phyllis
• 27:36
  Levitt.
• 27:36
  And
• 27:36
  how
• 27:36
  can
• 27:36
  people
• 27:37
  contact
• 27:37
  you,
• 27:37
  Phyllis?
• 27:38
  Yeah,
• 27:39
  the
• 27:39
  best
• 27:39
  place
• 27:39
  is
• 27:39
  my
• 27:40
  website,
• 27:40
  www.phyllislevitt.com.
• 27:43
  it's
• 27:43
  P
• 27:43
  H
• 27:44
  Y
• 27:44
  L
• 27:44
  L
• 27:44
  I
• 27:45
  S
• 27:45
  L
• 27:45
  E
• 27:45
  A
• 27:46
  V
• 27:46
  I
• 27:46
  T
• 27:46
  T.
• 27:47
  And
• 27:48
  you
• 27:48
  can
• 27:48
  also
• 27:48
  email
• 27:49
  me@phyllisphyllis
• 27:50
  levitt.com
• 27:51
  and
• 27:51
  I'm
• 27:51
  on
• 27:52
  all
• 27:52
  the
• 27:52
  social
• 27:52
  media.
• 27:53
  You
• 27:53
  can
• 27:53
  contact
• 27:53
  me
• 27:54
  there
• 27:54
  too.
• 27:54
  Great.
• 27:55
  All
• 27:55
  right.
• 27:56
  We'll
• 27:56
  take
• 27:56
  a
• 27:56
  short
• 27:56
  break
• 27:56
  and
• 27:57
  be
• 27:57
  right
• 27:57
  back.
• 27:57
  So
• 27:58
  stay
• 27:58
  tuned.
• 28:00
  I'm
• 28:00
  Anthony
• 28:00
  Wright
• 28:01
  and
• 28:01
  I
• 28:01
  am
• 28:01
  your
• 28:02
  co
• 28:02
  host
• 28:02
  today
• 28:03
  on
• 28:03
  the
• 28:03
  Living
• 28:03
  Conversation
• 28:04
  with
• 28:05
  Adam
• 28:05
  Dietz.
• 28:05
  Welcome
• 28:06
  back.
• 28:06
  And
• 28:07
  we
• 28:07
  are
• 28:08
  today
• 28:08
  talking
• 28:08
  with
• 28:09
  our
• 28:09
  guest
• 28:10
  psychologist
• 28:10
  Phyllis
• 28:11
  Levitt,
• 28:12
  who
• 28:12
  has
• 28:13
  written
• 28:13
  a
• 28:13
  book.
• 28:14
  What
• 28:15
  is
• 28:15
  the
• 28:15
  title
• 28:15
  of
• 28:15
  your
• 28:16
  book,
• 28:16
  please?
• 28:17
  It's
• 28:17
  America
• 28:18
  in
• 28:18
  Therapy,
• 28:18
  A
• 28:19
  New
• 28:19
  Approach
• 28:19
  to
• 28:20
  Hope
• 28:20
  and
• 28:20
  Healing
• 28:20
  for
• 28:21
  a
• 28:21
  Nation
• 28:21
  in
• 28:21
  Crisis.
• 28:22
  My
• 28:22
  goodness.
• 28:23
  And
• 28:23
  my,
• 28:25
  I'm
• 28:26
  from
• 28:26
  very
• 28:26
  timely,
• 28:27
  very
• 28:27
  tiny.
• 28:27
  Yeah.
• 28:28
  I'm
• 28:28
  from
• 28:28
  Minneapolis
• 28:29
  and
• 28:30
  you
• 28:30
  know
• 28:30
  it.
• 28:32
  I
• 28:32
  think
• 28:32
  the
• 28:32
  thing
• 28:34
  I,
• 28:34
  I
• 28:34
  really
• 28:38
  appreciate
• 28:40
  this
• 28:40
  idea
• 28:41
  of
• 28:41
  pain,
• 28:41
  but
• 28:41
  there
• 28:42
  are,
• 28:42
  are
• 28:42
  those
• 28:43
  who
• 28:43
  become
• 28:44
  attempt
• 28:44
  to
• 28:45
  become
• 28:45
  hardened
• 28:46
  to
• 28:47
  pain
• 28:48
  and
• 28:50
  they
• 28:50
  don't
• 28:50
  necessarily
• 28:51
  have
• 28:51
  to
• 28:51
  deal
• 28:51
  with
• 28:52
  that
• 28:52
  pain
• 28:52
  if
• 28:53
  they've
• 28:53
  got
• 28:53
  a
• 28:54
  bunch
• 28:54
  of
• 28:54
  money,
• 28:54
  for
• 28:55
  example.
• 28:56
  And,
• 28:59
  and
• 28:59
  yet
• 29:00
  it's,
• 29:00
  it
• 29:01
  doesn't
• 29:01
  go
• 29:01
  away.
• 29:06
  And
• 29:06
  again,
• 29:08
  of
• 29:08
  course,
• 29:09
  we
• 29:09
  need
• 29:09
  to
• 29:09
  stay
• 29:09
  safe.
• 29:11
  And
• 29:12
  there
• 29:12
  are.
• 29:16
  There
• 29:16
  are
• 29:16
  time
• 29:17
  frames
• 29:18
  when
• 29:18
  people
• 29:19
  in
• 29:19
  charge
• 29:20
  and
• 29:20
  Adam,
• 29:21
  maybe
• 29:21
  you
• 29:21
  could
• 29:21
  talk
• 29:22
  a
• 29:22
  little
• 29:22
  bit
• 29:22
  about
• 29:23
  the.
• 29:24
  The.
• 29:24
  The
• 29:25
  people
• 29:25
  who
• 29:25
  lived
• 29:25
  in
• 29:25
  the
• 29:25
  marsh
• 29:26
  during
• 29:27
  difficult
• 29:28
  times
• 29:28
  in
• 29:28
  Chinese
• 29:29
  philosophy.
• 29:30
  Yeah,
• 29:30
  There.
• 29:30
  There
• 29:30
  are
• 29:30
  four
• 29:31
  classic
• 29:31
  books
• 29:32
  in
• 29:32
  Chinese
• 29:32
  literature.
• 29:32
  One
• 29:33
  is
• 29:33
  called
• 29:33
  the
• 29:33
  Outlaws
• 29:34
  of
• 29:34
  the
• 29:34
  Marsh.
• 29:35
  And
• 29:36
  this
• 29:36
  is.
• 29:36
  It's
• 29:37
  a
• 29:37
  very
• 29:37
  deep
• 29:38
  Chinese
• 29:38
  cultural
• 29:38
  traditional
• 29:39
  value
• 29:39
  that
• 29:40
  you
• 29:40
  want
• 29:40
  to
• 29:40
  serve
• 29:41
  the
• 29:41
  country,
• 29:41
  you
• 29:42
  want
• 29:42
  to
• 29:42
  help,
• 29:42
  you
• 29:42
  want
• 29:42
  to
• 29:43
  aspire
• 29:43
  to
• 29:43
  be
• 29:43
  a
• 29:43
  high
• 29:44
  official.
• 29:45
  You
• 29:45
  educate
• 29:45
  yourself
• 29:46
  your
• 29:46
  whole
• 29:46
  life
• 29:46
  to.
• 29:47
  To
• 29:47
  do
• 29:47
  so.
• 29:48
  And
• 29:49
  when
• 29:49
  government
• 29:49
  is
• 29:50
  functional,
• 29:50
  I
• 29:50
  think
• 29:50
  we
• 29:51
  can
• 29:51
  all
• 29:51
  kind
• 29:51
  of
• 29:52
  imagine
• 29:52
  in
• 29:52
  our
• 29:53
  minds
• 29:53
  in.
• 29:53
  In
• 29:54
  even
• 29:54
  recent,
• 29:56
  at
• 29:56
  some
• 29:56
  point,
• 29:57
  there
• 29:57
  were
• 29:57
  some
• 29:57
  good
• 29:57
  government
• 29:58
  officials
• 29:58
  that
• 29:58
  were
• 29:59
  around,
• 29:59
  and
• 30:00
  you
• 30:00
  can
• 30:00
  aspire
• 30:01
  to
• 30:01
  see.
• 30:01
  You
• 30:02
  can
• 30:02
  see
• 30:02
  how
• 30:02
  you
• 30:02
  might
• 30:02
  want
• 30:03
  to
• 30:03
  aspire
• 30:03
  to
• 30:03
  help
• 30:04
  them
• 30:04
  out.
• 30:04
  You
• 30:05
  can
• 30:05
  see
• 30:05
  how
• 30:05
  they
• 30:05
  really,
• 30:06
  genuinely
• 30:06
  wanted
• 30:06
  to
• 30:06
  help
• 30:07
  the
• 30:07
  country.
• 30:08
  And
• 30:08
  this
• 30:09
  is
• 30:09
  when
• 30:09
  it's
• 30:09
  functioning
• 30:10
  well.
• 30:11
  Well,
• 30:11
  we're
• 30:11
  witnessing
• 30:12
  right
• 30:12
  now
• 30:12
  is
• 30:12
  very
• 30:13
  similar
• 30:13
  to
• 30:14
  many
• 30:14
  periods
• 30:14
  in
• 30:15
  Chinese
• 30:15
  history
• 30:15
  when
• 30:16
  people
• 30:17
  entered
• 30:17
  into
• 30:17
  government
• 30:18
  and
• 30:18
  they
• 30:18
  just
• 30:18
  emphasized
• 30:19
  profit.
• 30:20
  So
• 30:20
  in
• 30:20
  Chinese
• 30:21
  philosophy,
• 30:21
  this
• 30:21
  is
• 30:21
  called
• 30:21
  low
• 30:22
  people.
• 30:24
  There's
• 30:25
  superior
• 30:25
  people.
• 30:25
  And
• 30:25
  this
• 30:25
  would
• 30:25
  be
• 30:26
  like
• 30:26
  low
• 30:26
  people,
• 30:27
  anyone
• 30:27
  who
• 30:27
  just
• 30:27
  only
• 30:28
  emphasizes
• 30:28
  profit
• 30:28
  no
• 30:28
  matter
• 30:28
  what
• 30:29
  status.
• 30:29
  So
• 30:29
  the
• 30:29
  point
• 30:29
  is,
• 30:30
  when
• 30:30
  this
• 30:30
  type
• 30:30
  of
• 30:30
  person
• 30:31
  enters
• 30:31
  government,
• 30:31
  it's
• 30:31
  not
• 30:32
  safe.
• 30:33
  It's
• 30:33
  not
• 30:33
  safe.
• 30:34
  And
• 30:36
  good
• 30:36
  people,
• 30:37
  even
• 30:37
  when
• 30:37
  they
• 30:37
  endure
• 30:38
  and
• 30:38
  try
• 30:38
  to
• 30:38
  keep
• 30:38
  serving
• 30:39
  the
• 30:39
  country,
• 30:39
  they're
• 30:40
  kicked
• 30:40
  out
• 30:40
  or
• 30:41
  repressed
• 30:41
  or
• 30:41
  oppressed
• 30:42
  and.
• 30:44
  Or
• 30:44
  they
• 30:44
  resign.
• 30:45
  And
• 30:45
  so
• 30:46
  in
• 30:46
  this
• 30:47
  novel,
• 30:48
  these
• 30:48
  people
• 30:49
  found
• 30:50
  each
• 30:50
  other
• 30:50
  and
• 30:50
  gathered
• 30:51
  together
• 30:51
  and
• 30:51
  created
• 30:52
  their
• 30:52
  own
• 30:54
  outlaw
• 30:54
  society,
• 30:55
  so
• 30:55
  to
• 30:55
  speak,
• 30:56
  and
• 30:57
  just.
• 30:57
  But
• 30:58
  their.
• 30:58
  Their
• 30:58
  passion
• 30:58
  and
• 30:59
  their
• 30:59
  desire
• 30:59
  was
• 30:59
  always
• 31:00
  to
• 31:00
  wait
• 31:00
  for
• 31:00
  a
• 31:00
  good
• 31:01
  time
• 31:01
  when
• 31:01
  the
• 31:01
  government
• 31:02
  would
• 31:02
  open
• 31:02
  up
• 31:02
  again
• 31:02
  and
• 31:02
  allow
• 31:03
  them
• 31:03
  to.
• 31:03
  To
• 31:04
  allow
• 31:04
  them
• 31:04
  back
• 31:05
  in
• 31:05
  to
• 31:05
  serve.
• 31:06
  Is
• 31:06
  that
• 31:06
  what
• 31:07
  you
• 31:07
  were
• 31:07
  looking
• 31:07
  for,
• 31:07
  Anthony,
• 31:07
  there?
• 31:08
  Oh,
• 31:09
  yeah.
• 31:10
  It's
• 31:11
  unfortunate
• 31:12
  that
• 31:12
  sometimes
• 31:14
  pain
• 31:14
  is
• 31:14
  the
• 31:15
  only
• 31:15
  way
• 31:15
  forward,
• 31:16
  but
• 31:16
  I
• 31:16
  don't
• 31:17
  know
• 31:17
  if
• 31:17
  that's
• 31:17
  necessarily.
• 31:18
  If
• 31:19
  that's
• 31:19
  necessarily
• 31:19
  true.
• 31:20
  What
• 31:20
  do
• 31:21
  you
• 31:21
  guys
• 31:21
  think?
• 31:25
  Well,
• 31:25
  I
• 31:25
  think.
• 31:25
  I
• 31:26
  think
• 31:26
  pain
• 31:26
  is
• 31:26
  a
• 31:27
  motivator.
• 31:27
  Yeah.
• 31:28
  But
• 31:28
  I
• 31:29
  don't
• 31:29
  know
• 31:29
  that
• 31:29
  it's
• 31:29
  the
• 31:30
  only
• 31:30
  way
• 31:30
  forward.
• 31:30
  And
• 31:31
  I
• 31:31
  certainly
• 31:31
  pray
• 31:32
  for
• 31:32
  humanity
• 31:32
  that
• 31:33
  it
• 31:33
  becomes
• 31:33
  less
• 31:34
  and
• 31:34
  less
• 31:34
  the
• 31:34
  way
• 31:35
  forward
• 31:35
  and
• 31:36
  that
• 31:36
  our
• 31:36
  experiences
• 31:38
  that
• 31:38
  we
• 31:39
  create
• 31:39
  of
• 31:40
  love
• 31:40
  and
• 31:40
  connection
• 31:41
  are
• 31:41
  actually
• 31:42
  a
• 31:42
  call
• 31:42
  to
• 31:43
  create
• 31:43
  more
• 31:43
  of
• 31:43
  that.
• 31:45
  I
• 31:46
  love
• 31:46
  the
• 31:47
  clip
• 31:47
  that
• 31:47
  you
• 31:47
  just
• 31:48
  showed
• 31:48
  because
• 31:49
  I
• 31:49
  think
• 31:50
  it
• 31:50
  really
• 31:50
  does
• 31:51
  take
• 31:51
  that
• 31:51
  kind
• 31:52
  of
• 31:52
  adherence
• 31:53
  to
• 31:53
  your
• 31:53
  own
• 31:54
  inner
• 31:54
  integrity
• 31:55
  and
• 31:55
  truth
• 31:56
  to
• 31:56
  stomach
• 31:57
  a
• 31:57
  lot
• 31:57
  of
• 31:57
  what's
• 31:58
  going
• 31:58
  on
• 31:58
  and
• 31:59
  still
• 31:59
  have
• 31:59
  a
• 32:00
  voice
• 32:00
  for
• 32:01
  peace,
• 32:01
  for
• 32:01
  love,
• 32:02
  for
• 32:02
  unity,
• 32:03
  for
• 32:04
  compassion
• 32:05
  and
• 32:05
  cooperation.
• 32:08
  I'm
• 32:08
  such
• 32:09
  a
• 32:09
  fan
• 32:09
  of
• 32:09
  Gandhi
• 32:10
  and
• 32:10
  King,
• 32:11
  you
• 32:11
  know.
• 32:11
  Yeah.
• 32:12
  And
• 32:12
  I
• 32:12
  think,
• 32:13
  Adam,
• 32:13
  there's
• 32:13
  also
• 32:14
  Chinese
• 32:14
  philosophers
• 32:15
  that
• 32:15
  embody
• 32:16
  the
• 32:16
  same
• 32:16
  thing.
• 32:18
  Well,
• 32:18
  I
• 32:18
  think
• 32:19
  a
• 32:19
  few
• 32:20
  things
• 32:21
  resonate
• 32:21
  for
• 32:21
  me
• 32:21
  in
• 32:21
  this
• 32:22
  regard.
• 32:22
  Where
• 32:23
  earlier
• 32:24
  Phyllis
• 32:24
  was
• 32:24
  talking
• 32:24
  about
• 32:25
  how
• 32:25
  when
• 32:25
  you
• 32:25
  have
• 32:26
  this
• 32:26
  space,
• 32:27
  you
• 32:27
  naturally
• 32:28
  can
• 32:29
  come
• 32:29
  back
• 32:29
  to
• 32:30
  a
• 32:30
  sense
• 32:30
  of
• 32:31
  self,
• 32:31
  right?
• 32:32
  And
• 32:32
  it
• 32:33
  reminds
• 32:33
  me
• 32:33
  of
• 32:33
  Lao
• 32:34
  Tzu,
• 32:34
  where
• 32:34
  we
• 32:35
  naturally
• 32:35
  want
• 32:36
  to
• 32:36
  have
• 32:36
  this
• 32:36
  feeling.
• 32:37
  We
• 32:37
  naturally
• 32:37
  want
• 32:38
  to
• 32:39
  gravitate
• 32:39
  back
• 32:40
  to
• 32:40
  our
• 32:40
  true
• 32:40
  self.
• 32:41
  I
• 32:41
  mean,
• 32:41
  I'm
• 32:42
  paraphrasing
• 32:42
  very
• 32:43
  generously
• 32:44
  here
• 32:44
  with
• 32:44
  Lao
• 32:45
  Tzu,
• 32:45
  but
• 32:46
  the
• 32:46
  idea
• 32:46
  is
• 32:47
  that
• 32:47
  whether
• 32:48
  it's
• 32:48
  through
• 32:48
  pain,
• 32:49
  just
• 32:49
  through
• 32:50
  insight
• 32:50
  of
• 32:50
  seeing
• 32:51
  patterns
• 32:51
  repeated,
• 32:52
  that
• 32:54
  we
• 32:54
  all
• 32:55
  want
• 32:56
  this
• 32:56
  inner
• 32:56
  peace.
• 32:57
  We
• 32:58
  all
• 32:58
  want
• 32:58
  our
• 32:58
  humanity
• 32:59
  to
• 32:59
  flourish,
• 33:00
  we
• 33:00
  all
• 33:01
  want
• 33:01
  to
• 33:01
  feel
• 33:01
  that
• 33:01
  way.
• 33:02
  And
• 33:03
  so
• 33:04
  for
• 33:04
  Lao
• 33:04
  Tzu,
• 33:05
  the
• 33:05
  idea
• 33:05
  is
• 33:05
  that
• 33:05
  it's
• 33:06
  natural.
• 33:06
  It's
• 33:07
  the
• 33:07
  most
• 33:07
  natural
• 33:08
  thing.
• 33:08
  All
• 33:08
  we
• 33:08
  have
• 33:08
  to
• 33:08
  do
• 33:09
  is
• 33:09
  get
• 33:09
  out
• 33:09
  of
• 33:09
  our
• 33:09
  own
• 33:10
  way,
• 33:10
  get
• 33:10
  out
• 33:11
  of
• 33:11
  each
• 33:11
  other's
• 33:11
  way,
• 33:12
  and
• 33:12
  we'll
• 33:13
  flow
• 33:13
  like
• 33:14
  water
• 33:14
  back
• 33:14
  to
• 33:14
  this
• 33:15
  equilibrium.
• 33:15
  Him.
• 33:17
  One
• 33:18
  of
• 33:18
  the
• 33:18
  things
• 33:18
  you
• 33:18
  make
• 33:18
  me
• 33:19
  think
• 33:19
  of
• 33:19
  is
• 33:20
  that
• 33:20
  even
• 33:20
  scientifically
• 33:21
  we
• 33:22
  know
• 33:22
  that
• 33:23
  we're
• 33:23
  born
• 33:24
  wired
• 33:24
  for
• 33:24
  love
• 33:24
  and
• 33:25
  connection.
• 33:26
  We
• 33:26
  are
• 33:26
  born
• 33:27
  that
• 33:27
  way.
• 33:28
  And
• 33:28
  love
• 33:29
  and
• 33:29
  safe
• 33:30
  belonging
• 33:31
  are
• 33:31
  the
• 33:31
  best
• 33:31
  foods
• 33:32
  for
• 33:32
  human
• 33:32
  beings.
• 33:34
  And
• 33:34
  it's
• 33:34
  our
• 33:34
  injuries
• 33:35
  to
• 33:35
  love
• 33:36
  and
• 33:36
  safe
• 33:36
  belonging
• 33:37
  that
• 33:37
  create
• 33:38
  our
• 33:38
  worst
• 33:38
  symptoms.
• 33:39
  And
• 33:39
  I
• 33:40
  think
• 33:40
  that's
• 33:40
  how
• 33:40
  one
• 33:41
  of
• 33:41
  the
• 33:41
  ways
• 33:41
  to
• 33:41
  understand
• 33:42
  some
• 33:42
  of
• 33:42
  the
• 33:42
  worst
• 33:43
  symptoms
• 33:43
  that
• 33:43
  are
• 33:43
  manifesting
• 33:44
  in
• 33:44
  the
• 33:44
  human
• 33:45
  race
• 33:45
  today.
• 33:46
  And
• 33:46
  the
• 33:47
  antidote
• 33:48
  has
• 33:48
  to
• 33:48
  be
• 33:48
  some
• 33:49
  way
• 33:49
  to
• 33:49
  bring
• 33:50
  back
• 33:50
  love
• 33:50
  and
• 33:50
  safe
• 33:51
  belonging
• 33:52
  to
• 33:52
  all
• 33:53
  of
• 33:53
  us.
• 33:53
  And
• 33:54
  sometimes
• 33:55
  when
• 33:55
  I
• 33:55
  say
• 33:55
  that,
• 33:55
  it
• 33:56
  sounds
• 33:56
  like
• 33:56
  I'm
• 33:56
  talking
• 33:57
  Pollyanna
• 33:58
  or
• 33:58
  pie
• 33:58
  in
• 33:58
  the
• 33:58
  sky.
• 34:00
  But
• 34:00
  isn't
• 34:00
  that
• 34:01
  what
• 34:01
  we
• 34:01
  all
• 34:01
  want
• 34:02
  in
• 34:02
  our
• 34:02
  own
• 34:02
  lives?
• 34:03
  But
• 34:03
  my
• 34:04
  point,
• 34:05
  my
• 34:05
  thought
• 34:05
  about
• 34:06
  this,
• 34:06
  Phyllis,
• 34:07
  is
• 34:07
  that's
• 34:07
  one
• 34:08
  of
• 34:08
  the
• 34:08
  mechanisms
• 34:09
  about
• 34:10
  if
• 34:10
  you
• 34:11
  will
• 34:12
  accept
• 34:13
  my
• 34:15
  call
• 34:15
  to
• 34:15
  be
• 34:16
  afraid,
• 34:16
  then
• 34:16
  you
• 34:17
  can
• 34:17
  belong
• 34:17
  with
• 34:18
  us.
• 34:19
  Right?
• 34:20
  But
• 34:21
  wait,
• 34:23
  does
• 34:24
  that
• 34:24
  really
• 34:24
  satisfy
• 34:25
  the
• 34:25
  bully?
• 34:27
  Well,
• 34:27
  it's
• 34:28
  not
• 34:28
  safe
• 34:28
  belonging.
• 34:29
  No,
• 34:29
  it's
• 34:29
  belonging.
• 34:31
  It's
• 34:31
  not
• 34:31
  safe
• 34:31
  belonging.
• 34:32
  And,
• 34:33
  and
• 34:33
  that's
• 34:33
  the
• 34:33
  difference.
• 34:34
  And
• 34:34
  I
• 34:34
  think
• 34:34
  the
• 34:35
  fact
• 34:35
  that
• 34:35
  many
• 34:36
  people
• 34:36
  are
• 34:37
  attracted
• 34:38
  to
• 34:39
  belonging
• 34:39
  to
• 34:39
  something
• 34:40
  violent
• 34:40
  or
• 34:41
  hateful
• 34:41
  or
• 34:41
  discriminatory
• 34:43
  or
• 34:43
  self
• 34:43
  serving
• 34:45
  is
• 34:45
  a
• 34:45
  testimony
• 34:46
  to
• 34:46
  their
• 34:46
  unhealed
• 34:47
  woundedness.
• 34:49
  And
• 34:49
  one
• 34:50
  of
• 34:50
  the
• 34:50
  big
• 34:50
  points
• 34:51
  of
• 34:51
  my
• 34:51
  book
• 34:51
  and
• 34:52
  my
• 34:52
  work
• 34:52
  is
• 34:53
  that
• 34:53
  that
• 34:54
  injury
• 34:54
  to
• 34:54
  love
• 34:55
  and
• 34:55
  safe
• 34:55
  belonging
• 34:56
  happens
• 34:57
  often
• 34:57
  in
• 34:57
  the
• 34:57
  home
• 34:58
  and
• 34:58
  in
• 34:58
  the
• 34:58
  community.
• 34:59
  But
• 34:59
  it's
• 34:59
  happening
• 35:00
  on
• 35:01
  a
• 35:01
  global,
• 35:02
  collective,
• 35:03
  national
• 35:03
  and
• 35:03
  international
• 35:04
  scale.
• 35:05
  And
• 35:06
  so
• 35:06
  it's
• 35:06
  really
• 35:07
  important
• 35:07
  to
• 35:08
  address
• 35:08
  these
• 35:08
  issues
• 35:09
  on
• 35:09
  a
• 35:10
  national
• 35:10
  level.
• 35:11
  What
• 35:11
  is
• 35:11
  the
• 35:12
  family
• 35:12
  of
• 35:12
  America
• 35:13
  doing
• 35:13
  and
• 35:14
  why
• 35:14
  is
• 35:14
  it
• 35:14
  doing
• 35:15
  it?
• 35:16
  And
• 35:16
  how
• 35:16
  can
• 35:16
  we
• 35:16
  heal
• 35:17
  as
• 35:17
  a
• 35:17
  country
• 35:19
  by
• 35:19
  applying
• 35:20
  the
• 35:20
  principles
• 35:20
  of
• 35:21
  the
• 35:21
  best
• 35:21
  psychotherapy
• 35:22
  that
• 35:22
  we
• 35:22
  use
• 35:23
  in
• 35:23
  our
• 35:23
  offices.
• 35:24
  And
• 35:24
  like
• 35:24
  I
• 35:25
  said,
• 35:25
  it
• 35:25
  might
• 35:25
  sound
• 35:25
  like
• 35:26
  Pollyanna
• 35:26
  to
• 35:27
  think
• 35:27
  that
• 35:28
  we
• 35:28
  could
• 35:28
  actually
• 35:28
  have
• 35:29
  a
• 35:29
  facilitator
• 35:30
  in
• 35:30
  Congress
• 35:30
  who
• 35:31
  would
• 35:33
  help
• 35:33
  people
• 35:33
  listen
• 35:34
  to
• 35:34
  each
• 35:34
  other
• 35:34
  or
• 35:35
  instruct
• 35:35
  them
• 35:35
  in
• 35:35
  how
• 35:36
  to
• 35:36
  listen
• 35:37
  with
• 35:38
  an
• 35:38
  open
• 35:38
  mind
• 35:39
  and
• 35:39
  with
• 35:39
  a
• 35:39
  desire
• 35:40
  for
• 35:41
  collaboration
• 35:42
  and
• 35:42
  meeting
• 35:43
  themselves
• 35:43
  somewhere
• 35:44
  in
• 35:44
  a
• 35:44
  compromise
• 35:45
  or
• 35:45
  in
• 35:45
  the
• 35:45
  middle.
• 35:47
  But
• 35:47
  what
• 35:48
  an
• 35:48
  incredible
• 35:49
  role
• 35:49
  model
• 35:49
  that
• 35:49
  would
• 35:50
  be.
• 35:50
  That's
• 35:50
  what
• 35:51
  we
• 35:51
  do
• 35:51
  in
• 35:51
  our
• 35:51
  offices
• 35:52
  when
• 35:52
  we
• 35:52
  have
• 35:52
  a
• 35:53
  warring
• 35:53
  couple
• 35:54
  or
• 35:54
  a
• 35:54
  family
• 35:54
  that's
• 35:55
  at
• 35:55
  odds.
• 35:55
  We
• 35:56
  help
• 35:56
  people
• 35:57
  restrain
• 35:58
  their
• 35:58
  worst
• 35:58
  impulses
• 35:59
  and
• 35:59
  learn
• 35:59
  to
• 36:00
  listen.
• 36:00
  And
• 36:01
  when
• 36:01
  they
• 36:01
  get
• 36:02
  that
• 36:02
  that's
• 36:02
  actually
• 36:03
  to
• 36:03
  their
• 36:03
  benefit,
• 36:04
  then
• 36:05
  they
• 36:05
  want
• 36:05
  more
• 36:05
  of
• 36:05
  that.
• 36:06
  That.
• 36:07
  How
• 36:07
  do
• 36:07
  you
• 36:07
  offer
• 36:07
  that
• 36:08
  call
• 36:09
  to
• 36:09
  restraint?
• 36:12
  Well,
• 36:13
  I
• 36:13
  mean,
• 36:14
  you
• 36:14
  know,
• 36:15
  I
• 36:15
  think
• 36:15
  I,
• 36:16
  I'll,
• 36:16
  I'll
• 36:16
  say
• 36:17
  this,
• 36:17
  and
• 36:17
  you
• 36:17
  know,
• 36:18
  I've
• 36:18
  said
• 36:18
  this
• 36:18
  many
• 36:18
  times.
• 36:19
  I
• 36:19
  think
• 36:20
  that
• 36:20
  we
• 36:21
  are
• 36:21
  at
• 36:21
  this
• 36:21
  very
• 36:22
  pivotal
• 36:22
  place
• 36:23
  in
• 36:23
  human
• 36:23
  history
• 36:24
  where
• 36:25
  a
• 36:25
  lack
• 36:25
  of
• 36:26
  restraint
• 36:26
  and
• 36:27
  a
• 36:27
  lack
• 36:27
  of
• 36:27
  call
• 36:28
  to
• 36:28
  arms
• 36:29
  could
• 36:29
  really
• 36:29
  mean
• 36:30
  that
• 36:30
  the
• 36:30
  human
• 36:31
  race
• 36:31
  and
• 36:31
  a
• 36:31
  lot
• 36:32
  of
• 36:32
  life
• 36:32
  with
• 36:32
  us
• 36:32
  goes
• 36:33
  extinct.
• 36:34
  We
• 36:34
  have
• 36:34
  the
• 36:34
  ability
• 36:35
  with
• 36:35
  our
• 36:35
  weapons
• 36:36
  of
• 36:36
  mass
• 36:36
  destruction
• 36:37
  and
• 36:37
  our
• 36:37
  pollution
• 36:38
  of
• 36:38
  the
• 36:38
  planet
• 36:39
  to
• 36:39
  take
• 36:39
  ourselves
• 36:40
  out.
• 36:41
  That
• 36:41
  is
• 36:42
  suicidal
• 36:43
  and
• 36:43
  homicidal
• 36:44
  behavior
• 36:45
  and
• 36:45
  impulse.
• 36:46
  And
• 36:46
  if
• 36:47
  that
• 36:47
  isn't
• 36:47
  seen
• 36:48
  for
• 36:48
  what
• 36:48
  it
• 36:48
  is,
• 36:50
  then
• 36:50
  we're
• 36:50
  going
• 36:51
  to
• 36:51
  keep
• 36:51
  building
• 36:51
  nuclear
• 36:52
  weapons.
• 36:53
  We're
• 36:53
  going
• 36:53
  to
• 36:53
  keep
• 36:53
  threatening
• 36:54
  war,
• 36:55
  and
• 36:55
  that's
• 36:56
  insanity.
• 36:57
  If
• 36:57
  you
• 36:57
  looked
• 36:58
  at
• 36:58
  an
• 36:58
  individual
• 36:59
  family
• 37:00
  and
• 37:00
  they
• 37:00
  were
• 37:00
  spending
• 37:01
  their
• 37:02
  hard
• 37:02
  earned
• 37:03
  dollars
• 37:03
  on
• 37:04
  building
• 37:04
  an
• 37:04
  arsenal
• 37:05
  of
• 37:05
  bombs
• 37:05
  in
• 37:06
  their
• 37:06
  basement,
• 37:06
  and
• 37:06
  they
• 37:07
  weren't
• 37:07
  feeding
• 37:07
  half
• 37:07
  of
• 37:08
  their
• 37:08
  family
• 37:09
  or
• 37:09
  ostracizing
• 37:10
  them
• 37:10
  or
• 37:10
  blaming
• 37:11
  them,
• 37:11
  we'd
• 37:12
  say
• 37:12
  they
• 37:12
  were
• 37:12
  seriously
• 37:13
  disturbed.
• 37:14
  Well,
• 37:15
  in
• 37:16
  family
• 37:16
  systems,
• 37:17
  though,
• 37:17
  there
• 37:17
  is
• 37:18
  this
• 37:19
  kind
• 37:19
  of
• 37:19
  stockpiling
• 37:20
  of
• 37:20
  armament
• 37:23
  with
• 37:23
  each
• 37:23
  individual
• 37:24
  in
• 37:24
  a,
• 37:25
  in
• 37:25
  a
• 37:25
  couple
• 37:25
  that
• 37:27
  has
• 37:27
  somehow
• 37:27
  lost
• 37:28
  their
• 37:29
  connection.
• 37:30
  That's
• 37:30
  right.
• 37:30
  And
• 37:31
  so
• 37:31
  how
• 37:31
  do
• 37:31
  you,
• 37:32
  how
• 37:32
  do
• 37:32
  you,
• 37:33
  how
• 37:33
  do,
• 37:33
  how
• 37:34
  do
• 37:34
  we
• 37:34
  make
• 37:34
  space
• 37:36
  for
• 37:36
  this
• 37:37
  vulnerability
• 37:39
  and
• 37:39
  deep
• 37:40
  listening
• 37:40
  to
• 37:40
  occur?
• 37:41
  You
• 37:41
  certainly
• 37:41
  model
• 37:42
  it.
• 37:43
  Well,
• 37:43
  I
• 37:43
  think
• 37:43
  we
• 37:44
  start
• 37:44
  with
• 37:44
  whoever's
• 37:45
  willing.
• 37:45
  I
• 37:46
  think
• 37:46
  that's
• 37:46
  the
• 37:46
  only
• 37:47
  place
• 37:47
  to
• 37:47
  start
• 37:49
  because
• 37:49
  we
• 37:49
  also
• 37:50
  don't
• 37:50
  know
• 37:50
  the
• 37:50
  ripple
• 37:51
  effect.
• 37:52
  If
• 37:52
  you
• 37:52
  have
• 37:52
  two
• 37:52
  people
• 37:53
  that
• 37:53
  are
• 37:53
  willing.
• 37:55
  Right.
• 37:55
  You
• 37:55
  have
• 37:55
  two
• 37:55
  people
• 37:56
  are
• 37:56
  willing.
• 37:56
  Let's
• 37:57
  just
• 37:57
  say
• 37:57
  it's
• 37:57
  a
• 37:57
  couple
• 37:57
  who
• 37:58
  are
• 37:58
  really
• 37:58
  at
• 37:58
  odds.
• 37:58
  They're
• 37:59
  fighting,
• 37:59
  they're
• 37:59
  screaming.
• 38:00
  They
• 38:00
  might
• 38:00
  be
• 38:00
  hitting
• 38:00
  each
• 38:01
  other
• 38:01
  or
• 38:01
  slamming
• 38:01
  doors
• 38:02
  or
• 38:02
  triangulating
• 38:03
  their
• 38:04
  children
• 38:04
  or
• 38:04
  whatever
• 38:05
  they're
• 38:05
  doing.
• 38:06
  If
• 38:06
  they're
• 38:07
  willing
• 38:08
  to
• 38:08
  try
• 38:08
  to
• 38:09
  heal
• 38:09
  that
• 38:09
  relationship,
• 38:10
  they're
• 38:10
  going
• 38:10
  to
• 38:11
  heal
• 38:11
  their
• 38:11
  family
• 38:12
  as
• 38:12
  well.
• 38:13
  And
• 38:14
  I
• 38:14
  think
• 38:14
  that's
• 38:14
  where
• 38:15
  we
• 38:15
  start
• 38:15
  with
• 38:15
  ourselves.
• 38:16
  What
• 38:17
  am
• 38:17
  I
• 38:17
  willing
• 38:18
  to
• 38:18
  do
• 38:18
  what
• 38:18
  am
• 38:19
  I
• 38:19
  able
• 38:19
  to
• 38:19
  do
• 38:21
  in
• 38:21
  with
• 38:21
  the
• 38:21
  people
• 38:21
  that
• 38:22
  I
• 38:22
  love
• 38:22
  and
• 38:22
  the
• 38:22
  people
• 38:23
  that
• 38:23
  I
• 38:23
  interact
• 38:24
  with?
• 38:25
  Because
• 38:25
  we
• 38:25
  really,
• 38:26
  there
• 38:26
  is
• 38:26
  a
• 38:26
  ripple
• 38:27
  effect.
• 38:27
  There's,
• 38:28
  we
• 38:28
  know
• 38:28
  there's
• 38:29
  a
• 38:29
  ripple
• 38:29
  effect
• 38:29
  of
• 38:30
  hatred.
• 38:31
  Do
• 38:31
  we,
• 38:32
  do
• 38:32
  we
• 38:32
  know
• 38:32
  that
• 38:33
  there's
• 38:33
  a
• 38:33
  ripple
• 38:33
  effect
• 38:34
  of
• 38:34
  love?
• 38:35
  I
• 38:35
  think
• 38:35
  we
• 38:35
  have
• 38:36
  to
• 38:36
  know
• 38:36
  that.
• 38:37
  Yeah.
• 38:37
  We
• 38:38
  have
• 38:38
  to
• 38:38
  take
• 38:38
  a
• 38:38
  short
• 38:39
  break.
• 38:39
  I'm
• 38:39
  Anthony
• 38:39
  Wright
• 38:40
  and
• 38:40
  I'm
• 38:40
  your
• 38:40
  co
• 38:41
  host
• 38:41
  today
• 38:41
  on
• 38:41
  the
• 38:41
  Living
• 38:42
  Conversation
• 38:43
  with
• 38:44
  Adam
• 38:44
  Dietz.
• 38:45
  Thanks
• 38:45
  for
• 38:45
  joining
• 38:45
  us.
• 38:46
  1Our
• 38:47
  guest,
• 38:48
  Phyllis
• 38:48
  Levit.
• 38:49
  And
• 38:49
  how
• 38:49
  can
• 38:49
  people
• 38:49
  contact
• 38:50
  you?
• 38:50
  Phyllis?
• 38:51
  Yeah,
• 38:52
  please
• 38:52
  contact
• 38:52
  me
• 38:53
  on
• 38:53
  my
• 38:53
  website.
• 38:54
  It's
• 38:54
  www.phyllis
• 38:55
  levit.com.
• 38:57
  i'm
• 38:57
  on
• 38:57
  all
• 38:57
  the
• 38:57
  social
• 38:58
  media
• 38:58
  where
• 38:58
  you
• 38:58
  can
• 38:59
  contact
• 38:59
  me
• 39:00
  and
• 39:00
  I
• 39:00
  have
• 39:01
  an
• 39:01
  email
• 39:01
  address
• 39:01
  which
• 39:02
  is
• 39:02
  phyllis
• 39:02
  phyllis.
• 39:03
  Levit.Com
• 39:04
  and
• 39:05
  that's
• 39:05
  levit
• 39:06
  L
• 39:06
  E
• 39:07
  A
• 39:07
  V
• 39:07
  I
• 39:08
  T
• 39:08
  T.
• 39:08
  Is
• 39:08
  that
• 39:09
  correct?
• 39:09
  That's
• 39:10
  correct.
• 39:10
  And
• 39:10
  it's
• 39:10
  P
• 39:10
  H
• 39:11
  Y
• 39:11
  L
• 39:11
  L
• 39:11
  I
• 39:12
  S
• 39:12
  And
• 39:13
  also
• 39:13
  you
• 39:13
  can
• 39:14
  buy
• 39:15
  America
• 39:15
  in
• 39:15
  Therapy
• 39:16
  from
• 39:16
  all
• 39:16
  major
• 39:16
  booksellers.
• 39:18
  Great.
• 39:18
  All
• 39:18
  right,
• 39:18
  we'll
• 39:19
  take
• 39:19
  a
• 39:19
  short
• 39:19
  break
• 39:19
  and
• 39:19
  be
• 39:20
  right
• 39:20
  back.
• 39:20
  So
• 39:20
  stay
• 39:21
  tuned.
• 39:22
  I'm
• 39:23
  Anthony
• 39:23
  Wright
• 39:23
  and
• 39:24
  I'm
• 39:24
  your
• 39:24
  co
• 39:24
  host
• 39:24
  today
• 39:25
  on
• 39:25
  the
• 39:25
  Living
• 39:25
  Conversation
• 39:26
  with
• 39:26
  Adam
• 39:27
  Dietz.
• 39:27
  Welcome
• 39:27
  back
• 39:28
  to
• 39:28
  the
• 39:28
  Conversation.
• 39:29
  And
• 39:29
  we're
• 39:29
  here
• 39:30
  with
• 39:30
  our
• 39:30
  guest
• 39:30
  Phyllis
• 39:31
  Levitt
• 39:32
  who
• 39:32
  is
• 39:32
  a
• 39:32
  psychotherapist.
• 39:34
  And
• 39:37
  you
• 39:37
  know,
• 39:37
  one
• 39:38
  of
• 39:38
  the,
• 39:38
  you
• 39:38
  were
• 39:38
  talking
• 39:39
  about.
• 39:43
  Refusing
• 39:44
  to
• 39:44
  respond
• 39:45
  to
• 39:46
  negativity
• 39:46
  with
• 39:47
  hate
• 39:47
  and
• 39:47
  I,
• 39:48
  I
• 39:49
  think
• 39:49
  one
• 39:49
  of
• 39:49
  the
• 39:49
  most
• 39:49
  profound
• 39:50
  things
• 39:50
  I've
• 39:51
  seen,
• 39:51
  I'm
• 39:51
  from
• 39:51
  Minneapolis
• 39:52
  and
• 39:52
  so
• 39:52
  I'm
• 39:52
  kind
• 39:53
  of
• 39:53
  reactionary
• 39:54
  here.
• 39:54
  Right.
• 39:54
  But
• 39:55
  the
• 39:55
  most
• 39:56
  profound
• 39:56
  things
• 39:57
  that
• 39:59
  Renee
• 40:00
  Nicole
• 40:00
  Good
• 40:00
  said
• 40:01
  at
• 40:01
  the
• 40:01
  end
• 40:02
  of
• 40:02
  her
• 40:02
  life
• 40:02
  was
• 40:02
  I'm
• 40:03
  not
• 40:03
  angry
• 40:03
  with
• 40:03
  you,
• 40:04
  dude.
• 40:05
  I
• 40:05
  think
• 40:06
  that's
• 40:06
  such
• 40:06
  a,
• 40:07
  such
• 40:08
  a
• 40:08
  poignant
• 40:09
  and
• 40:11
  profound
• 40:11
  thing.
• 40:13
  Yeah.
• 40:15
  Can
• 40:15
  you
• 40:15
  guys
• 40:15
  talk
• 40:15
  a
• 40:16
  little
• 40:16
  bit
• 40:16
  about
• 40:17
  that?
• 40:19
  So
• 40:19
  sad.
• 40:20
  I
• 40:20
  mean
• 40:21
  it's
• 40:21
  just
• 40:21
  so
• 40:21
  sad.
• 40:22
  But
• 40:22
  also
• 40:23
  it
• 40:23
  just
• 40:23
  goes
• 40:23
  to
• 40:24
  show
• 40:24
  you
• 40:24
  like
• 40:24
  in
• 40:24
  times
• 40:24
  of
• 40:25
  crisis,
• 40:25
  some
• 40:25
  people
• 40:26
  rise
• 40:27
  up
• 40:27
  and
• 40:27
  some
• 40:27
  people
• 40:28
  just
• 40:28
  falter.
• 40:29
  And
• 40:29
  she,
• 40:30
  she
• 40:30
  in
• 40:30
  the
• 40:31
  most,
• 40:31
  you
• 40:32
  know,
• 40:32
  critical
• 40:33
  crisis
• 40:34
  filled
• 40:34
  moment
• 40:35
  of
• 40:35
  her
• 40:35
  life
• 40:35
  just
• 40:36
  stood
• 40:36
  strong
• 40:37
  and
• 40:37
  her
• 40:37
  soul
• 40:37
  was
• 40:38
  shining.
• 40:38
  And
• 40:39
  you
• 40:39
  have
• 40:39
  someone
• 40:39
  else
• 40:40
  that
• 40:40
  was
• 40:40
  just
• 40:40
  as
• 40:40
  weak,
• 40:41
  feeble
• 40:41
  and
• 40:42
  pathetic
• 40:42
  as
• 40:42
  you
• 40:42
  could
• 40:43
  possibly
• 40:43
  be.
• 40:43
  And
• 40:44
  so
• 40:44
  it
• 40:44
  just
• 40:44
  shows
• 40:44
  the,
• 40:45
  the
• 40:45
  different,
• 40:46
  it
• 40:46
  shows
• 40:46
  your
• 40:46
  humanity.
• 40:47
  You
• 40:47
  know,
• 40:47
  it's
• 40:47
  like
• 40:47
  when
• 40:48
  you're
• 40:48
  in
• 40:48
  a
• 40:49
  tight
• 40:49
  spot,
• 40:49
  you
• 40:50
  show
• 40:50
  who
• 40:50
  you
• 40:50
  are.
• 40:50
  And
• 40:50
  these
• 40:51
  two
• 40:51
  people
• 40:51
  both
• 40:51
  showed
• 40:52
  who
• 40:52
  they
• 40:52
  were.
• 40:53
  But
• 40:53
  I
• 40:53
  think
• 40:53
  there's
• 40:53
  also
• 40:54
  Jonathan
• 40:55
  Ross
• 40:55
  is
• 40:55
  do
• 40:56
  our
• 40:56
  compassion
• 40:58
  and,
• 40:58
  and
• 40:59
  you
• 40:59
  know,
• 41:01
  he,
• 41:01
  I
• 41:02
  can't,
• 41:02
  I
• 41:02
  can't
• 41:02
  imagine
• 41:03
  what
• 41:03
  he,
• 41:04
  his,
• 41:04
  his
• 41:05
  deep
• 41:06
  experience
• 41:06
  must
• 41:06
  be
• 41:08
  we
• 41:08
  have
• 41:08
  to
• 41:08
  have
• 41:08
  compassion
• 41:10
  for
• 41:10
  that
• 41:10
  person.
• 41:13
  So.
• 41:13
  Well,
• 41:14
  I
• 41:14
  think
• 41:14
  what
• 41:14
  we're
• 41:14
  faced
• 41:15
  with
• 41:15
  is
• 41:15
  how
• 41:15
  to
• 41:16
  have
• 41:16
  compassion
• 41:17
  and
• 41:17
  hold
• 41:17
  compassion.
• 41:18
  And
• 41:18
  really
• 41:19
  this
• 41:19
  is
• 41:19
  the
• 41:20
  heart
• 41:20
  of
• 41:20
  psychotherapy
• 41:21
  in
• 41:21
  some
• 41:21
  ways.
• 41:22
  And
• 41:22
  there's
• 41:22
  many
• 41:22
  hearts
• 41:23
  of
• 41:23
  psychotherapy
• 41:23
  because
• 41:24
  I'll
• 41:24
  say
• 41:24
  that
• 41:24
  in
• 41:24
  different
• 41:24
  ways.
• 41:25
  But
• 41:26
  is
• 41:26
  holding
• 41:27
  compassion
• 41:27
  and
• 41:27
  deep
• 41:28
  understanding
• 41:29
  for
• 41:29
  how
• 41:29
  our
• 41:29
  wounds
• 41:30
  and
• 41:30
  faulty
• 41:31
  conditioning
• 41:31
  manifest
• 41:32
  and
• 41:33
  holding
• 41:33
  ourselves
• 41:34
  and
• 41:34
  others
• 41:35
  accountable.
• 41:36
  And
• 41:36
  from
• 41:37
  a
• 41:37
  healing
• 41:37
  point
• 41:38
  of
• 41:38
  view,
• 41:40
  is
• 41:41
  the
• 41:41
  person.
• 41:42
  I
• 41:43
  watched
• 41:43
  this
• 41:43
  documentary,
• 41:44
  I
• 41:44
  don't
• 41:44
  remember
• 41:44
  the
• 41:44
  name
• 41:44
  of
• 41:45
  it,
• 41:45
  but
• 41:45
  it
• 41:46
  was
• 41:46
  so
• 41:46
  moving.
• 41:47
  It
• 41:47
  was
• 41:47
  interviews
• 41:48
  with
• 41:48
  men
• 41:48
  in
• 41:49
  prison
• 41:49
  who
• 41:49
  had
• 41:50
  committed
• 41:51
  terrible
• 41:51
  crimes,
• 41:52
  terrible
• 41:52
  crimes.
• 41:53
  Every
• 41:54
  single
• 41:55
  one
• 41:55
  of
• 41:55
  them
• 41:56
  was
• 41:57
  extremely
• 41:58
  traumatized
• 41:58
  and
• 41:59
  got
• 41:59
  no
• 42:00
  help.
• 42:00
  They
• 42:00
  had
• 42:00
  witnessed
• 42:01
  murders,
• 42:01
  they
• 42:02
  had
• 42:02
  witnessed
• 42:02
  people
• 42:03
  in
• 42:03
  their
• 42:03
  family
• 42:03
  being
• 42:04
  beaten
• 42:04
  or
• 42:04
  sexually
• 42:05
  abused
• 42:05
  or
• 42:05
  they
• 42:06
  had
• 42:06
  been
• 42:06
  raped
• 42:07
  or
• 42:07
  they
• 42:08
  had
• 42:08
  been,
• 42:08
  you
• 42:09
  know,
• 42:10
  given
• 42:11
  as
• 42:11
  sexual
• 42:12
  victims
• 42:13
  to
• 42:13
  their
• 42:13
  father's
• 42:14
  friends
• 42:14
  or,
• 42:15
  you
• 42:15
  know,
• 42:15
  whatever.
• 42:17
  They
• 42:17
  had
• 42:18
  terrible
• 42:18
  role
• 42:18
  models.
• 42:19
  They
• 42:19
  had
• 42:19
  no
• 42:20
  escape
• 42:20
  from
• 42:20
  violence.
• 42:21
  They
• 42:21
  had
• 42:21
  been
• 42:21
  abandoned
• 42:22
  and
• 42:23
  they
• 42:23
  were
• 42:23
  highly
• 42:24
  symptomatic
• 42:24
  and
• 42:25
  filled
• 42:25
  with
• 42:25
  rage.
• 42:27
  So
• 42:28
  I
• 42:28
  think
• 42:28
  it's
• 42:28
  partly
• 42:29
  our
• 42:29
  society's
• 42:30
  responsibility
• 42:31
  to
• 42:31
  look
• 42:31
  at
• 42:32
  what
• 42:32
  we're
• 42:32
  doing
• 42:33
  to
• 42:33
  people,
• 42:34
  whether
• 42:34
  it's
• 42:35
  economically
• 42:36
  or
• 42:36
  our
• 42:37
  discrimination
• 42:38
  or
• 42:38
  our
• 42:38
  racial
• 42:39
  biases
• 42:40
  or
• 42:40
  all
• 42:41
  the
• 42:41
  things
• 42:41
  that
• 42:41
  we
• 42:41
  do
• 42:42
  that
• 42:42
  is
• 42:42
  setting
• 42:43
  up
• 42:43
  people
• 42:43
  to
• 42:44
  be
• 42:44
  filled
• 42:44
  with
• 42:44
  so
• 42:45
  much
• 42:45
  hatred
• 42:45
  and
• 42:45
  rage
• 42:46
  that
• 42:46
  it's
• 42:47
  going
• 42:47
  to
• 42:47
  explode
• 42:48
  somewhere.
• 42:49
  And
• 42:49
  that's.
• 42:50
  And,
• 42:50
  and
• 42:51
  are
• 42:51
  they
• 42:51
  accountable
• 42:51
  for
• 42:52
  what
• 42:52
  they
• 42:52
  did?
• 42:53
  Yes,
• 42:53
  of
• 42:54
  course
• 42:54
  they
• 42:54
  are.
• 42:55
  So
• 42:55
  it's
• 42:55
  like,
• 42:56
  I,
• 42:56
  I
• 42:56
  really
• 42:57
  think
• 42:57
  this
• 42:57
  is
• 42:57
  the
• 42:57
  hardest
• 42:58
  thing
• 42:58
  for
• 42:58
  any
• 42:58
  of
• 42:59
  us
• 42:59
  to
• 42:59
  do
• 42:59
  do,
• 43:00
  which
• 43:00
  is
• 43:00
  to
• 43:00
  keep
• 43:01
  that
• 43:01
  heart
• 43:01
  of
• 43:01
  compassion
• 43:02
  and
• 43:02
  deep
• 43:03
  understanding
• 43:03
  and
• 43:04
  hold
• 43:04
  ourselves
• 43:05
  and
• 43:05
  others
• 43:05
  accountable
• 43:06
  from
• 43:06
  a
• 43:06
  healing
• 43:07
  lens.
• 43:08
  I'd
• 43:08
  like
• 43:09
  to
• 43:09
  offer
• 43:09
  you
• 43:09
  a
• 43:10
  theory
• 43:10
  that
• 43:10
  I've
• 43:10
  been
• 43:10
  looking
• 43:11
  at
• 43:11
  this
• 43:11
  for
• 43:11
  about
• 43:11
  15
• 43:12
  years
• 43:12
  and
• 43:13
  the
• 43:13
  first
• 43:13
  time
• 43:13
  it
• 43:14
  came
• 43:14
  to
• 43:14
  my
• 43:14
  attention
• 43:15
  was
• 43:15
  how
• 43:16
  law
• 43:16
  enforcement
• 43:17
  had
• 43:17
  killed
• 43:18
  a
• 43:18
  person
• 43:18
  of
• 43:18
  color
• 43:18
  in
• 43:19
  northern
• 43:19
  Minneapolis.
• 43:20
  And
• 43:20
  I
• 43:20
  said,
• 43:20
  well,
• 43:21
  this
• 43:21
  seems
• 43:21
  to
• 43:21
  be
• 43:22
  fairly
• 43:22
  prevalent.
• 43:23
  Then
• 43:23
  I
• 43:24
  thought
• 43:24
  about
• 43:24
  it
• 43:24
  for
• 43:24
  a
• 43:25
  while
• 43:25
  and
• 43:25
  I
• 43:25
  thought,
• 43:25
  thought,
• 43:26
  well,
• 43:26
  these
• 43:27
  law
• 43:27
  enforcement
• 43:27
  people,
• 43:28
  they
• 43:28
  are
• 43:29
  heroic
• 43:30
  in
• 43:30
  doing
• 43:30
  what
• 43:31
  they
• 43:31
  do
• 43:32
  and,
• 43:32
  but
• 43:33
  they're
• 43:33
  dealing
• 43:34
  with
• 43:34
  post
• 43:35
  traumatic
• 43:35
  stress
• 43:36
  and
• 43:37
  many
• 43:37
  of
• 43:37
  them
• 43:37
  do
• 43:38
  not
• 43:38
  seek
• 43:40
  professional
• 43:41
  help
• 43:41
  to
• 43:41
  decompress
• 43:42
  that.
• 43:43
  So
• 43:43
  that
• 43:43
  when
• 43:44
  there
• 43:44
  is
• 43:44
  a
• 43:45
  heightened
• 43:45
  emotional
• 43:46
  situation,
• 43:48
  then
• 43:48
  I'm
• 43:49
  speaking
• 43:49
  as
• 43:49
  an
• 43:49
  archetypal
• 43:50
  student
• 43:50
  of,
• 43:51
  of
• 43:51
  Jung.
• 43:52
  Then
• 43:53
  in
• 43:54
  this
• 43:54
  archetypal
• 43:54
  situation,
• 43:55
  their
• 43:55
  own
• 43:55
  projection
• 43:56
  of
• 43:56
  negativity
• 43:57
  shows
• 43:57
  up
• 43:58
  and
• 43:58
  it's
• 43:58
  a
• 43:58
  goblin.
• 44:00
  And
• 44:00
  they
• 44:00
  don't
• 44:00
  see
• 44:01
  the
• 44:01
  human
• 44:01
  being
• 44:02
  and
• 44:03
  they
• 44:03
  see
• 44:03
  this
• 44:03
  goblin
• 44:04
  and
• 44:04
  they
• 44:04
  feel
• 44:05
  that
• 44:05
  their
• 44:05
  life
• 44:06
  is
• 44:06
  threatened
• 44:06
  by
• 44:06
  the
• 44:07
  goblin.
• 44:07
  But
• 44:08
  you
• 44:08
  can't
• 44:08
  kill
• 44:08
  a
• 44:09
  goblin
• 44:09
  by
• 44:09
  shooting
• 44:09
  it.
• 44:11
  And
• 44:11
  it,
• 44:12
  it
• 44:12
  Only
• 44:13
  multiplies
• 44:13
  as
• 44:13
  we
• 44:14
  are
• 44:14
  seeing.
• 44:15
  And
• 44:15
  so
• 44:15
  I've
• 44:16
  asked
• 44:18
  somebody
• 44:18
  who
• 44:19
  studied
• 44:19
  archetypal
• 44:20
  storytelling,
• 44:21
  and
• 44:21
  they
• 44:21
  said,
• 44:21
  okay,
• 44:22
  well,
• 44:23
  and
• 44:23
  I
• 44:23
  reference
• 44:24
  also
• 44:24
  the
• 44:24
  Hobbit.
• 44:25
  Okay.
• 44:25
  What
• 44:25
  did.
• 44:26
  What.
• 44:26
  What
• 44:26
  did
• 44:27
  Bilbo
• 44:27
  do
• 44:27
  to
• 44:27
  get
• 44:28
  his
• 44:28
  cohort
• 44:29
  free
• 44:29
  when
• 44:29
  they
• 44:29
  were
• 44:30
  trapped
• 44:30
  by
• 44:30
  the
• 44:30
  goblins?
• 44:31
  He
• 44:31
  kept
• 44:31
  them
• 44:31
  arguing
• 44:32
  until
• 44:32
  the
• 44:32
  light
• 44:32
  of
• 44:32
  day.
• 44:34
  Or
• 44:35
  the
• 44:35
  other
• 44:35
  one
• 44:35
  was
• 44:36
  Rumpelstiltson,
• 44:37
  and
• 44:39
  he
• 44:39
  was
• 44:39
  a
• 44:39
  goblin.
• 44:40
  And
• 44:40
  when
• 44:40
  she
• 44:40
  named
• 44:41
  him,
• 44:42
  then
• 44:42
  his
• 44:43
  power
• 44:43
  was
• 44:43
  gone.
• 44:44
  Done.
• 44:45
  So
• 44:45
  the
• 44:45
  idea.
• 44:46
  And
• 44:46
  correct
• 44:47
  me
• 44:47
  if
• 44:47
  I'm
• 44:47
  wrong,
• 44:48
  isn't
• 44:48
  some
• 44:49
  of
• 44:49
  the
• 44:49
  healing,
• 44:50
  this
• 44:51
  idea
• 44:51
  about
• 44:51
  saying,
• 44:52
  oh,
• 44:52
  wait,
• 44:53
  there's
• 44:53
  a
• 44:53
  human
• 44:53
  being
• 44:54
  there.
• 44:55
  The
• 44:55
  other
• 44:55
  is
• 44:56
  a
• 44:56
  human
• 44:56
  being.
• 44:57
  Right.
• 44:58
  Does
• 44:58
  that
• 44:58
  make
• 44:58
  sense?
• 45:00
  Yeah.
• 45:01
  Do
• 45:01
  you
• 45:01
  want
• 45:01
  to
• 45:01
  speak
• 45:01
  to
• 45:01
  that?
• 45:01
  Yeah.
• 45:02
  I
• 45:02
  have
• 45:02
  a
• 45:02
  question.
• 45:03
  This
• 45:04
  actually
• 45:04
  is
• 45:05
  inspiring
• 45:06
  a
• 45:06
  lot
• 45:06
  of.
• 45:06
  I
• 45:06
  want
• 45:06
  to
• 45:07
  say
• 45:07
  righteous
• 45:07
  anger
• 45:07
  in
• 45:08
  me,
• 45:09
  and
• 45:10
  I
• 45:10
  want
• 45:10
  to
• 45:11
  check
• 45:11
  in
• 45:11
  with
• 45:11
  a
• 45:11
  therapist
• 45:12
  because
• 45:14
  two
• 45:14
  things.
• 45:14
  One,
• 45:14
  I
• 45:15
  know
• 45:15
  all
• 45:15
  I
• 45:15
  can
• 45:15
  control
• 45:15
  is
• 45:16
  myself.
• 45:16
  Right.
• 45:17
  Two,
• 45:18
  I
• 45:18
  also
• 45:19
  feel
• 45:19
  very
• 45:19
  angry,
• 45:20
  and
• 45:21
  I
• 45:21
  think
• 45:22
  that
• 45:22
  that
• 45:22
  anger
• 45:22
  is
• 45:23
  justified.
• 45:24
  And
• 45:24
  I
• 45:25
  feel
• 45:25
  like
• 45:26
  anger
• 45:26
  can
• 45:26
  give
• 45:26
  you
• 45:27
  energy.
• 45:28
  And
• 45:28
  I
• 45:28
  feel
• 45:28
  like
• 45:29
  appropriate
• 45:30
  emotions
• 45:31
  and
• 45:31
  appropriate
• 45:31
  response
• 45:32
  to
• 45:33
  a
• 45:34
  certain
• 45:34
  situation
• 45:35
  is
• 45:35
  part
• 45:36
  of
• 45:36
  being
• 45:36
  a
• 45:36
  human
• 45:36
  being.
• 45:37
  So
• 45:37
  I
• 45:38
  think
• 45:38
  that
• 45:39
  from
• 45:39
  what
• 45:39
  I
• 45:40
  gather,
• 45:40
  you
• 45:40
  would
• 45:41
  want
• 45:41
  to,
• 45:41
  you
• 45:42
  know,
• 45:42
  use
• 45:43
  that
• 45:43
  anger
• 45:43
  in
• 45:44
  a
• 45:44
  constructive
• 45:44
  way.
• 45:45
  Does
• 45:45
  that
• 45:45
  sound
• 45:46
  about
• 45:46
  right?
• 45:46
  Because.
• 45:46
  Because
• 45:47
  we're
• 45:47
  talking
• 45:47
  about,
• 45:48
  you
• 45:48
  know,
• 45:48
  compassion
• 45:49
  and
• 45:49
  forgiveness.
• 45:50
  But
• 45:50
  actually,
• 45:50
  I
• 45:50
  feel
• 45:50
  very
• 45:50
  angry.
• 45:52
  Right.
• 45:52
  And.
• 45:53
  And,
• 45:53
  yes,
• 45:53
  deep
• 45:53
  in
• 45:54
  my
• 45:54
  heart,
• 45:54
  I
• 45:54
  have
• 45:54
  a
• 45:55
  space
• 45:55
  that's
• 45:56
  completely
• 45:57
  free.
• 45:57
  My
• 45:57
  soul
• 45:58
  is
• 45:58
  just
• 45:59
  feeling
• 45:59
  great
• 45:59
  and
• 45:59
  dancing
• 46:00
  with
• 46:00
  joy.
• 46:01
  But
• 46:01
  a
• 46:02
  little
• 46:02
  bit
• 46:02
  more
• 46:02
  on
• 46:02
  the
• 46:02
  surface,
• 46:03
  I
• 46:03
  feel
• 46:03
  righteous
• 46:04
  anger,
• 46:04
  anger.
• 46:05
  And
• 46:05
  I
• 46:05
  feel
• 46:05
  like
• 46:05
  these
• 46:06
  people
• 46:06
  are
• 46:06
  disgusting.
• 46:08
  And
• 46:09
  I
• 46:09
  guess
• 46:09
  maybe
• 46:09
  I'm
• 46:10
  thinking
• 46:10
  of
• 46:10
  them
• 46:10
  as
• 46:10
  goblins.
• 46:11
  Maybe
• 46:11
  I'm
• 46:11
  doing
• 46:11
  what
• 46:12
  Anthony's
• 46:12
  talking
• 46:12
  about.
• 46:13
  But
• 46:13
  I
• 46:13
  also
• 46:13
  feel
• 46:14
  like
• 46:14
  I
• 46:14
  have
• 46:15
  some
• 46:15
  righteous
• 46:15
  anger,
• 46:16
  that
• 46:16
  they
• 46:16
  deserve
• 46:17
  this
• 46:17
  anger.
• 46:18
  And
• 46:18
  so
• 46:18
  how
• 46:18
  do
• 46:19
  you
• 46:19
  channel
• 46:19
  that?
• 46:19
  How
• 46:19
  do
• 46:20
  you
• 46:20
  be
• 46:20
  constructive
• 46:20
  with
• 46:20
  it?
• 46:20
  How
• 46:20
  do
• 46:21
  you
• 46:21
  not
• 46:21
  let
• 46:21
  it
• 46:21
  consume
• 46:21
  you?
• 46:22
  How
• 46:23
  do
• 46:23
  you.
• 46:23
  How
• 46:23
  do
• 46:24
  you
• 46:24
  place
• 46:24
  anger
• 46:24
  in
• 46:25
  this
• 46:25
  situation?
• 46:25
  Phyllis?
• 46:26
  That's
• 46:26
  where
• 46:26
  what
• 46:27
  I'm
• 46:27
  wondering.
• 46:28
  I
• 46:29
  don't
• 46:29
  hate
• 46:29
  anybody.
• 46:31
  There's
• 46:31
  a
• 46:31
  lot
• 46:31
  of.
• 46:32
  Deep
• 46:32
  inside.
• 46:33
  Deep
• 46:33
  inside,
• 46:33
  for
• 46:33
  sure.
• 46:35
  No,
• 46:35
  I
• 46:35
  love
• 46:35
  what
• 46:35
  you
• 46:35
  brought
• 46:36
  up
• 46:36
  because
• 46:36
  I
• 46:36
  think
• 46:36
  it's
• 46:37
  a
• 46:37
  natural
• 46:37
  response
• 46:38
  to
• 46:39
  seeing
• 46:39
  cruelty
• 46:40
  and
• 46:40
  victimization
• 46:41
  and
• 46:41
  murder
• 46:43
  and
• 46:43
  injustice
• 46:44
  being
• 46:44
  played
• 46:44
  out
• 46:45
  and
• 46:45
  justified.
• 46:45
  I
• 46:46
  think
• 46:46
  it's
• 46:46
  a
• 46:46
  natural
• 46:47
  response
• 46:47
  to
• 46:47
  feel
• 46:47
  angry.
• 46:48
  I
• 46:48
  think
• 46:48
  when
• 46:48
  a
• 46:49
  person
• 46:49
  is
• 46:49
  abused,
• 46:50
  anyone,
• 46:51
  like,
• 46:51
  in
• 46:51
  their
• 46:52
  own
• 46:52
  home,
• 46:52
  one
• 46:53
  of
• 46:53
  the
• 46:53
  things
• 46:53
  they
• 46:53
  feel
• 46:54
  is
• 46:54
  anger,
• 46:55
  that
• 46:55
  may
• 46:56
  not
• 46:56
  be
• 46:56
  the
• 46:56
  one
• 46:56
  they
• 46:56
  express
• 46:57
  the
• 46:57
  most
• 46:57
  because
• 46:58
  it
• 46:58
  may
• 46:58
  not
• 46:58
  be
• 46:58
  safe
• 46:59
  to
• 46:59
  express
• 46:59
  it.
• 47:00
  And
• 47:00
  we
• 47:01
  also
• 47:01
  have
• 47:01
  some
• 47:01
  biases
• 47:02
  against
• 47:02
  I
• 47:03
  think
• 47:03
  sometimes
• 47:03
  against
• 47:04
  being
• 47:04
  angry.
• 47:06
  I
• 47:06
  think.
• 47:06
  I
• 47:06
  think
• 47:07
  anger
• 47:07
  is
• 47:07
  a
• 47:08
  natural
• 47:08
  and
• 47:08
  needed
• 47:09
  response.
• 47:10
  I
• 47:10
  think
• 47:10
  it's
• 47:11
  outrageous
• 47:12
  some
• 47:12
  of
• 47:12
  the
• 47:12
  things
• 47:12
  that
• 47:13
  are
• 47:13
  happening.
• 47:14
  But
• 47:14
  what
• 47:15
  I
• 47:15
  agree
• 47:15
  with.
• 47:15
  With
• 47:16
  what
• 47:16
  you're
• 47:16
  saying
• 47:16
  is
• 47:17
  I
• 47:17
  think
• 47:17
  we
• 47:18
  have
• 47:18
  to
• 47:18
  find
• 47:18
  a
• 47:18
  way
• 47:18
  to
• 47:19
  channel
• 47:19
  that.
• 47:19
  And
• 47:20
  it's
• 47:20
  not
• 47:20
  just
• 47:21
  love
• 47:21
  and
• 47:21
  compassion.
• 47:22
  That's
• 47:23
  a
• 47:23
  place
• 47:24
  we
• 47:24
  stand
• 47:25
  and
• 47:25
  hold.
• 47:26
  But
• 47:26
  it's
• 47:26
  also
• 47:27
  really
• 47:27
  important
• 47:27
  to
• 47:28
  call
• 47:28
  out
• 47:28
  abuse
• 47:29
  and
• 47:29
  say,
• 47:30
  this
• 47:30
  is
• 47:30
  wrong
• 47:31
  and
• 47:31
  this
• 47:31
  should
• 47:32
  not
• 47:32
  be
• 47:32
  happening.
• 47:34
  Find
• 47:35
  an
• 47:35
  appropriately
• 47:36
  powerful
• 47:37
  way
• 47:37
  to.
• 47:38
  To
• 47:38
  call
• 47:38
  it
• 47:39
  out
• 47:39
  and
• 47:39
  stand
• 47:40
  against
• 47:40
  it.
• 47:41
  And
• 47:41
  the
• 47:41
  clip
• 47:42
  that
• 47:42
  you
• 47:42
  showed
• 47:43
  was
• 47:43
  Gandhi's
• 47:44
  way
• 47:44
  of
• 47:44
  doing
• 47:45
  that.
• 47:46
  He
• 47:47
  was
• 47:47
  absolutely
• 47:47
  not
• 47:48
  condoning
• 47:48
  anything.
• 47:48
  He
• 47:49
  wasn't
• 47:49
  just
• 47:49
  speaking
• 47:49
  love
• 47:50
  and
• 47:50
  compassion.
• 47:51
  He
• 47:51
  was
• 47:51
  saying,
• 47:52
  I
• 47:52
  will
• 47:53
  be
• 47:53
  that,
• 47:54
  and
• 47:54
  I
• 47:54
  will
• 47:54
  not
• 47:55
  waver
• 47:55
  in
• 47:55
  being
• 47:56
  that.
• 47:56
  And
• 47:56
  you
• 47:56
  can
• 47:57
  kill
• 47:57
  me
• 47:57
  if
• 47:58
  you
• 47:58
  want
• 47:58
  to,
• 47:59
  but
• 47:59
  I
• 47:59
  won't
• 47:59
  condone
• 48:00
  what
• 48:00
  you're
• 48:00
  doing,
• 48:02
  and
• 48:03
  I
• 48:03
  won't
• 48:03
  cooperate
• 48:04
  with
• 48:04
  what
• 48:04
  you're
• 48:04
  doing.
• 48:05
  And
• 48:05
  I
• 48:05
  think
• 48:06
  we
• 48:06
  each
• 48:06
  need
• 48:07
  to
• 48:07
  find
• 48:07
  our
• 48:07
  own
• 48:07
  way
• 48:07
  to
• 48:08
  do
• 48:08
  that,
• 48:09
  because
• 48:10
  one
• 48:10
  of
• 48:10
  the
• 48:10
  things
• 48:11
  that
• 48:11
  happens
• 48:11
  in
• 48:12
  an
• 48:12
  abusive
• 48:12
  family
• 48:13
  or
• 48:13
  an
• 48:13
  abusive
• 48:14
  society
• 48:14
  is
• 48:14
  that
• 48:15
  people
• 48:15
  often
• 48:15
  feel
• 48:16
  powerless,
• 48:17
  and
• 48:17
  powerlessness
• 48:18
  leads
• 48:19
  to
• 48:19
  rage.
• 48:20
  They're
• 48:20
  two
• 48:20
  sides
• 48:21
  of
• 48:21
  the
• 48:21
  same
• 48:21
  coin.
• 48:22
  So
• 48:23
  we
• 48:23
  have
• 48:23
  to
• 48:23
  find
• 48:23
  a
• 48:23
  way
• 48:24
  to
• 48:24
  turn
• 48:24
  our
• 48:24
  rage
• 48:25
  into
• 48:25
  appropriate
• 48:26
  power.
• 48:26
  And
• 48:27
  it
• 48:27
  might
• 48:27
  be
• 48:27
  doing
• 48:27
  a
• 48:28
  podcast,
• 48:28
  it
• 48:28
  might
• 48:29
  be
• 48:29
  writing
• 48:29
  an
• 48:29
  article.
• 48:30
  It
• 48:30
  might
• 48:30
  be
• 48:30
  speaking
• 48:31
  to
• 48:31
  a
• 48:31
  friend
• 48:31
  that
• 48:31
  you
• 48:32
  think
• 48:32
  maybe
• 48:32
  there's
• 48:32
  an
• 48:32
  opening
• 48:33
  happening
• 48:33
  with.
• 48:34
  Even
• 48:34
  if
• 48:34
  they
• 48:35
  are
• 48:35
  aligned
• 48:35
  with
• 48:36
  things
• 48:36
  that
• 48:36
  you
• 48:36
  don't
• 48:36
  believe
• 48:37
  in,
• 48:39
  it
• 48:39
  can
• 48:40
  be
• 48:40
  anything.
• 48:40
  Like,
• 48:41
  I.
• 48:41
  I'm.
• 48:41
  I'm
• 48:42
  in
• 48:42
  a
• 48:42
  group
• 48:43
  of
• 48:43
  women,
• 48:43
  and
• 48:43
  we
• 48:44
  were
• 48:44
  together
• 48:44
  the
• 48:45
  other
• 48:45
  day,
• 48:45
  and
• 48:46
  we
• 48:46
  ended
• 48:46
  up
• 48:46
  talking
• 48:47
  about
• 48:47
  exactly
• 48:47
  this.
• 48:48
  And
• 48:50
  we
• 48:50
  were
• 48:50
  talking
• 48:50
  about,
• 48:50
  what.
• 48:52
  What
• 48:52
  can
• 48:52
  we
• 48:53
  do?
• 48:53
  What
• 48:53
  can
• 48:53
  we
• 48:54
  do?
• 48:54
  We
• 48:54
  all
• 48:54
  want
• 48:54
  to
• 48:55
  do
• 48:55
  something,
• 48:56
  and
• 48:57
  we
• 48:57
  just
• 48:57
  talked
• 48:57
  about
• 48:57
  what
• 48:58
  each
• 48:58
  of
• 48:58
  us
• 48:58
  were
• 48:58
  doing.
• 48:59
  One
• 48:59
  person
• 48:59
  is,
• 49:00
  you
• 49:00
  know,
• 49:00
  sending
• 49:01
  money
• 49:01
  to
• 49:02
  an
• 49:02
  organization
• 49:03
  that.
• 49:03
  That.
• 49:03
  That
• 49:03
  supports
• 49:04
  immigrants.
• 49:05
  One
• 49:05
  person
• 49:05
  is
• 49:06
  out
• 49:06
  there
• 49:06
  on
• 49:06
  the
• 49:06
  street
• 49:06
  giving
• 49:07
  jackets
• 49:08
  and
• 49:08
  supplies
• 49:09
  to
• 49:09
  homeless
• 49:09
  people.
• 49:10
  Another
• 49:10
  person
• 49:10
  is
• 49:11
  cooking
• 49:11
  for
• 49:11
  a
• 49:11
  shelter.
• 49:13
  I
• 49:13
  think
• 49:14
  we
• 49:14
  have
• 49:14
  to
• 49:14
  funnel
• 49:15
  that
• 49:15
  anger
• 49:16
  into
• 49:16
  something
• 49:17
  that
• 49:17
  actually
• 49:17
  makes
• 49:17
  a
• 49:18
  difference.
• 49:19
  Well,
• 49:19
  there's
• 49:19
  a
• 49:19
  reframe
• 49:20
  to
• 49:20
  intensity
• 49:22
  then,
• 49:23
  which
• 49:23
  doesn't
• 49:24
  have
• 49:24
  such
• 49:24
  hooks
• 49:26
  that
• 49:27
  can
• 49:27
  turn
• 49:27
  into
• 49:28
  hatred.
• 49:29
  Right.
• 49:30
  And
• 49:30
  I.
• 49:32
  None
• 49:32
  for
• 49:32
  me,
• 49:32
  thanks.
• 49:33
  There's
• 49:33
  a
• 49:33
  lot
• 49:34
  of
• 49:34
  offering.
• 49:34
  Won't
• 49:35
  you
• 49:35
  hate
• 49:35
  the
• 49:36
  other?
• 49:36
  It's
• 49:36
  their
• 49:37
  fault.
• 49:37
  Won't
• 49:38
  you
• 49:38
  hate
• 49:38
  the
• 49:38
  other
• 49:38
  so
• 49:39
  you
• 49:39
  can
• 49:39
  belong
• 49:39
  with
• 49:39
  us?
• 49:40
  No,
• 49:40
  thanks.
• 49:41
  But
• 49:41
  turning
• 49:41
  your
• 49:41
  anger
• 49:42
  into
• 49:42
  passion
• 49:42
  and
• 49:42
  intensity
• 49:43
  and
• 49:44
  intensity.
• 49:45
  And
• 49:45
  I
• 49:45
  feel
• 49:45
  so
• 49:46
  intense
• 49:47
  in
• 49:47
  this
• 49:47
  moment,
• 49:47
  and
• 49:47
  I
• 49:48
  appreciate
• 49:48
  what
• 49:48
  you're
• 49:49
  saying
• 49:49
  about
• 49:50
  it.
• 49:50
  Sounds
• 49:50
  like
• 49:50
  holding
• 49:51
  our
• 49:51
  ground
• 49:53
  right
• 49:53
  within
• 49:54
  ourself.
• 49:54
  Right.
• 49:54
  Is
• 49:55
  that
• 49:55
  part
• 49:55
  of
• 49:56
  what
• 49:56
  you're
• 49:56
  talking
• 49:56
  about
• 49:56
  too,
• 49:57
  Adam?
• 49:57
  Yeah,
• 49:57
  that
• 49:57
  makes
• 49:58
  a
• 49:58
  lot
• 49:58
  of
• 49:58
  sense
• 49:58
  because
• 50:00
  we
• 50:00
  are
• 50:02
  being
• 50:02
  manipulated.
• 50:03
  We're
• 50:03
  meant
• 50:03
  to
• 50:03
  be
• 50:04
  felt
• 50:04
  powerless.
• 50:05
  We're
• 50:05
  meant
• 50:06
  to
• 50:06
  feel
• 50:07
  like
• 50:07
  there's
• 50:07
  no
• 50:07
  choice
• 50:08
  but
• 50:08
  to
• 50:08
  join
• 50:08
  ICE
• 50:09
  because
• 50:09
  all
• 50:09
  the
• 50:09
  other
• 50:09
  jobs
• 50:10
  are
• 50:10
  gone,
• 50:11
  where
• 50:11
  institutions
• 50:12
  are
• 50:12
  crumbling
• 50:13
  around
• 50:13
  us.
• 50:14
  And
• 50:15
  so
• 50:15
  to
• 50:15
  hold
• 50:15
  our
• 50:15
  ground,
• 50:16
  to
• 50:17
  use
• 50:17
  maybe
• 50:17
  anger
• 50:18
  and
• 50:18
  intensity
• 50:18
  and
• 50:18
  passion
• 50:19
  to
• 50:19
  maintain
• 50:20
  our
• 50:20
  spirituality.
• 50:22
  Philosophers
• 50:22
  have
• 50:22
  gone
• 50:23
  over
• 50:23
  this
• 50:23
  since
• 50:23
  the
• 50:23
  beginning
• 50:24
  of
• 50:24
  time.
• 50:25
  Plato
• 50:25
  and
• 50:25
  Socrates
• 50:26
  were
• 50:26
  talking
• 50:26
  about
• 50:26
  what's
• 50:27
  the
• 50:27
  best
• 50:27
  way
• 50:27
  to
• 50:27
  organize
• 50:28
  society?
• 50:29
  And
• 50:29
  it
• 50:29
  was
• 50:29
  always
• 50:29
  about,
• 50:29
  you
• 50:30
  have
• 50:30
  to
• 50:30
  have
• 50:30
  good
• 50:31
  and
• 50:31
  virtuous
• 50:31
  people.
• 50:32
  That
• 50:32
  way
• 50:32
  you're.
• 50:33
  Wouldn't
• 50:33
  you
• 50:33
  want
• 50:33
  to
• 50:34
  live
• 50:34
  in
• 50:34
  a
• 50:34
  country
• 50:34
  with
• 50:34
  good
• 50:35
  and
• 50:35
  virtuous
• 50:35
  people?
• 50:37
  So
• 50:37
  this
• 50:37
  is
• 50:37
  not
• 50:38
  reinventing
• 50:39
  the
• 50:39
  wheel.
• 50:40
  I
• 50:40
  was
• 50:40
  exposed
• 50:41
  to
• 50:41
  this
• 50:41
  when
• 50:42
  I
• 50:42
  was
• 50:42
  early
• 50:42
  in
• 50:42
  grad
• 50:43
  school,
• 50:43
  and
• 50:43
  certain
• 50:44
  political
• 50:44
  things
• 50:44
  were
• 50:44
  going
• 50:45
  on
• 50:45
  that
• 50:45
  I
• 50:45
  was
• 50:45
  very
• 50:46
  unhappy
• 50:46
  with
• 50:46
  at
• 50:47
  that
• 50:47
  time
• 50:47
  as
• 50:47
  well.
• 50:48
  And
• 50:49
  I,
• 50:50
  in
• 50:50
  one
• 50:50
  of
• 50:50
  the
• 50:50
  classes
• 50:51
  was
• 50:51
  very
• 50:51
  political
• 50:52
  class,
• 50:53
  and
• 50:53
  I
• 50:54
  was
• 50:54
  kind
• 50:54
  of
• 50:54
  keeping
• 50:54
  it
• 50:54
  arm's
• 50:55
  length
• 50:55
  because
• 50:55
  my
• 50:55
  studies
• 50:56
  were
• 50:56
  more
• 50:56
  on
• 50:56
  philosophy.
• 50:58
  And
• 50:58
  it
• 50:58
  really
• 50:58
  grounded
• 50:59
  me
• 50:59
  that
• 50:59
  philosophy
• 51:00
  is
• 51:00
  the
• 51:00
  way
• 51:00
  out,
• 51:00
  spirituality
• 51:01
  is
• 51:01
  the
• 51:01
  way
• 51:01
  out.
• 51:02
  And
• 51:02
  even
• 51:02
  in
• 51:02
  that
• 51:03
  political
• 51:03
  class,
• 51:03
  one
• 51:04
  of
• 51:04
  the
• 51:04
  most
• 51:04
  profound,
• 51:04
  poignant
• 51:05
  things
• 51:05
  I
• 51:05
  read
• 51:06
  was
• 51:06
  that
• 51:06
  everything
• 51:07
  can
• 51:07
  be
• 51:07
  co
• 51:08
  opted.
• 51:08
  Your
• 51:09
  anger
• 51:09
  can
• 51:09
  be
• 51:09
  co
• 51:09
  opted.
• 51:10
  Right.
• 51:10
  The
• 51:11
  one
• 51:11
  thing
• 51:11
  that
• 51:11
  can
• 51:11
  never
• 51:11
  be
• 51:12
  co
• 51:12
  opted
• 51:12
  is
• 51:12
  your
• 51:12
  own
• 51:12
  spirituality.
• 51:13
  And
• 51:14
  that's
• 51:14
  how
• 51:14
  we
• 51:14
  stand
• 51:14
  our
• 51:14
  ground.
• 51:15
  That's
• 51:15
  how
• 51:15
  we.
• 51:15
  That's
• 51:16
  how
• 51:16
  we
• 51:16
  use
• 51:17
  our
• 51:17
  anger,
• 51:17
  use
• 51:18
  our
• 51:18
  intensity
• 51:18
  to
• 51:18
  make
• 51:18
  sure
• 51:19
  we
• 51:19
  take
• 51:19
  care
• 51:19
  of
• 51:19
  ourselves,
• 51:20
  to
• 51:20
  make
• 51:20
  sure
• 51:20
  we.
• 51:20
  We
• 51:21
  double
• 51:21
  down
• 51:21
  our
• 51:21
  spirituality.
• 51:23
  Yeah,
• 51:23
  we're
• 51:23
  coming
• 51:23
  up
• 51:24
  on
• 51:24
  the
• 51:24
  end
• 51:24
  of
• 51:24
  the
• 51:24
  show
• 51:24
  here.
• 51:25
  Phyllis,
• 51:25
  what
• 51:25
  do
• 51:25
  you,
• 51:26
  what,
• 51:26
  what
• 51:26
  do
• 51:27
  you
• 51:27
  have
• 51:27
  to
• 51:27
  say,
• 51:28
  say
• 51:29
  to
• 51:30
  people
• 51:30
  about
• 51:31
  your
• 51:31
  book
• 51:31
  and
• 51:31
  about
• 51:32
  our
• 51:32
  approach?
• 51:32
  If
• 51:32
  there
• 51:33
  was
• 51:33
  one
• 51:33
  thing
• 51:34
  that
• 51:34
  we
• 51:34
  could
• 51:34
  know,
• 51:35
  please.
• 51:36
  Well,
• 51:36
  I
• 51:36
  would
• 51:37
  love
• 51:37
  people
• 51:37
  to
• 51:37
  read
• 51:37
  my
• 51:38
  book
• 51:38
  and
• 51:38
  really
• 51:39
  understand
• 51:39
  some
• 51:40
  of,
• 51:40
  on
• 51:40
  a
• 51:40
  deep
• 51:41
  level,
• 51:41
  the
• 51:41
  roots
• 51:41
  of
• 51:42
  violence
• 51:42
  and
• 51:42
  hatred.
• 51:43
  And
• 51:43
  some
• 51:44
  of
• 51:44
  the
• 51:44
  new
• 51:44
  par.
• 51:45
  Well,
• 51:45
  they're
• 51:45
  not
• 51:45
  really
• 51:46
  new,
• 51:46
  but
• 51:46
  the
• 51:46
  paradigms
• 51:47
  that
• 51:47
  I
• 51:47
  think
• 51:47
  we
• 51:48
  need
• 51:48
  to
• 51:48
  move
• 51:48
  into
• 51:48
  that
• 51:49
  we're
• 51:49
  not
• 51:49
  operating
• 51:50
  on
• 51:50
  today.
• 51:51
  And
• 51:51
  some
• 51:52
  of
• 51:52
  the
• 51:52
  actual
• 51:54
  tools
• 51:55
  that
• 51:55
  we
• 51:55
  can
• 51:55
  use
• 51:56
  to
• 51:57
  begin
• 51:57
  to
• 51:58
  talk
• 51:58
  to
• 51:58
  each
• 51:58
  other,
• 51:58
  listen
• 51:59
  to
• 51:59
  each
• 51:59
  other,
• 52:00
  stand
• 52:00
  our
• 52:00
  ground
• 52:01
  powerfully.
• 52:03
  And
• 52:03
  I
• 52:03
  think
• 52:03
  standing
• 52:04
  our
• 52:04
  ground
• 52:04
  powerfully
• 52:05
  is
• 52:05
  something
• 52:05
  that's
• 52:06
  really
• 52:06
  being
• 52:06
  called
• 52:06
  for
• 52:07
  today.
• 52:08
  But
• 52:08
  do
• 52:09
  what
• 52:09
  you're
• 52:09
  called
• 52:10
  to
• 52:10
  do.
• 52:10
  Listen
• 52:10
  to
• 52:11
  your
• 52:11
  own
• 52:11
  intuition.
• 52:12
  You
• 52:12
  know,
• 52:13
  I'm
• 52:13
  not
• 52:13
  meant
• 52:14
  to,
• 52:14
  you
• 52:15
  know,
• 52:15
  I
• 52:16
  don't
• 52:16
  know.
• 52:16
  There's
• 52:16
  certain
• 52:17
  roles
• 52:17
  I'm
• 52:17
  not
• 52:17
  meant
• 52:18
  to
• 52:18
  play.
• 52:18
  This
• 52:18
  is
• 52:18
  the
• 52:19
  role
• 52:19
  I'm
• 52:19
  meant
• 52:19
  to
• 52:19
  play
• 52:20
  from
• 52:20
  the
• 52:20
  work
• 52:20
  that
• 52:20
  I've
• 52:21
  done.
• 52:21
  And
• 52:22
  you're
• 52:22
  meant
• 52:22
  to
• 52:22
  play
• 52:22
  the
• 52:23
  role
• 52:23
  that
• 52:23
  you're
• 52:23
  meant
• 52:24
  to
• 52:24
  play.
• 52:25
  And
• 52:25
  I
• 52:25
  think,
• 52:25
  I
• 52:25
  also
• 52:26
  think
• 52:26
  one
• 52:26
  of
• 52:27
  the
• 52:27
  things
• 52:27
  that
• 52:27
  really
• 52:27
  helps
• 52:28
  me
• 52:28
  is
• 52:28
  to
• 52:28
  know
• 52:28
  I'm
• 52:28
  not
• 52:29
  alone
• 52:29
  because
• 52:30
  sometimes
• 52:30
  it
• 52:30
  feels
• 52:30
  very
• 52:30
  lonely.
• 52:32
  And
• 52:32
  we
• 52:32
  are
• 52:32
  in
• 52:33
  this
• 52:33
  together.
• 52:34
  And
• 52:34
  what
• 52:34
  a
• 52:34
  blessing
• 52:35
  to
• 52:35
  talk
• 52:35
  to
• 52:36
  the
• 52:36
  two
• 52:36
  of
• 52:36
  you
• 52:37
  who
• 52:37
  have
• 52:37
  such
• 52:38
  an
• 52:38
  amazing
• 52:39
  background.
• 52:39
  And
• 52:39
  I
• 52:40
  know
• 52:40
  you've
• 52:40
  done
• 52:40
  incredible
• 52:41
  work
• 52:41
  in
• 52:41
  your
• 52:41
  own
• 52:42
  lives
• 52:42
  and
• 52:42
  you're
• 52:43
  doing
• 52:43
  incredible
• 52:44
  work
• 52:44
  now.
• 52:44
  And
• 52:44
  we
• 52:45
  can
• 52:45
  come
• 52:45
  together
• 52:46
  and
• 52:47
  who
• 52:47
  knows
• 52:48
  how
• 52:48
  many
• 52:48
  people
• 52:48
  will
• 52:49
  be
• 52:49
  affected
• 52:49
  by
• 52:49
  everything
• 52:50
  that
• 52:50
  you've
• 52:50
  just
• 52:50
  said.
• 52:51
  ED
• 52:52
  well,
• 52:52
  and
• 52:52
  you
• 52:52
  too.
• 52:52
  And
• 52:53
  thank
• 52:53
  you
• 52:53
  for
• 52:53
  being
• 52:53
  with
• 52:54
  us,
• 52:54
  Phyllis.
• 52:54
  We
• 52:54
  really
• 52:55
  appreciate
• 52:56
  your
• 52:57
  being
• 52:57
  here
• 52:57
  on
• 52:58
  the
• 52:58
  show.
• 52:59
  We
• 53:00
  have
• 53:00
  to
• 53:00
  stop.
• 53:00
  We're
• 53:00
  out
• 53:01
  of
• 53:01
  time.
• 53:01
  I'm
• 53:01
  Anthony
• 53:02
  Wright.
• 53:02
  I've
• 53:03
  been
• 53:03
  your
• 53:03
  co
• 53:03
  host
• 53:03
  today
• 53:04
  on
• 53:04
  the
• 53:04
  Living
• 53:04
  Conversation
• 53:05
  with
• 53:06
  Adam
• 53:06
  Dietz.
• 53:06
  Thanks
• 53:07
  for
• 53:07
  joining
• 53:07
  the
• 53:07
  conversation,
• 53:07
  Phyllis,
• 53:08
  and.
• 53:08
  All
• 53:08
  our
• 53:08
  listeners
• 53:09
  and
• 53:10
  thank
• 53:10
  you
• 53:10
  so
• 53:11
  much
• 53:11
  for
• 53:11
  having
• 53:11
  me.
• 53:12
  And
• 53:12
  how
• 53:12
  can
• 53:12
  people
• 53:13
  contact
• 53:13
  you?
• 53:13
  PHYLLIS
• 53:14
  yeah,
• 53:15
  my
• 53:15
  website
• 53:15
  is
• 53:16
  my
• 53:16
  name
• 53:16
  www.phyllis
• 53:18
  levitt.com
• 53:19
  and
• 53:20
  you
• 53:20
  can
• 53:20
  contact
• 53:20
  me
• 53:21
  at
• 53:21
  phyllisphyllis
• 53:23
  and
• 53:23
  on
• 53:24
  all
• 53:24
  the
• 53:24
  social
• 53:24
  media.
• 53:25
  So.
• 53:25
  Okay.
• 53:26
  And
• 53:26
  it's
• 53:26
  L
• 53:26
  E
• 53:26
  A
• 53:27
  V
• 53:27
  I.
• 53:27
  T
• 53:28
  T.
• 53:28
  Yes,
• 53:29
  P
• 53:29
  H
• 53:29
  Y
• 53:30
  L
• 53:30
  L
• 53:30
  I
• 53:30
  S.
• 53:31
  Great.
• 53:33
  Well,
• 53:33
  thanks
• 53:33
  for
• 53:33
  being
• 53:33
  with
• 53:34
  us
• 53:34
  and
• 53:34
  we
• 53:34
  will
• 53:35
  see
• 53:35
  you
• 53:35
  next
• 53:36
  time.