Latest / Neighbourly: Real Stories of Care and Community / Care Without Fixing | With Shannon and Johan

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Care Without Fixing | With Shannon and Johan · Neighbourly: Real Stories of Care and Community

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Hey, it's Johan here. Just a quick note. As a podcast guy,
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as an editor, sound is really important to me. So I wanted
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to have a bit of a disclaimer on this one that we recorded this whole
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interview with me using the wrong microphone. I was speaking into my
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podcast mic. But it was going into my camera mic. So I used
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a little bit of magic to try to make it sound much better than
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it actually was, but. Still not up to my standards. But this was a great
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interview. We couldn't delete it. We recorded the whole thing, and I. Hope you enjoy
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it. Every one of us has a story about someone who
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showed up when it mattered most. I'm Johan, and this is
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Neighbourly, a podcast about the ordinary ways people
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show extraordinary care. Every other week,
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Shannon Steeves sits down with someone who's lived that out.
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Real stories of faith, kindness, and community in
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action. So grab your coffee and let's join. Shannon at the
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table. Welcome to the Neighborly Podcast. It's Johan here,
1:01
and I'm on with my cohort, Shannon. Hello, Shannon. Hey,
1:05
everybody. So we're doing something a little bit different today. It's going to
1:08
be Shannon and I kind of discussing one of the questions that we
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feel like kind of sits in the air in our episodes.
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Today's question is going to be, how do you care without trying to
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fix everything? Yeah, this question, it resonates. It
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hits a little too close to home sometimes for me.
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And as uncomfortable as it can feel sometimes, I think
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it's an important question to talk about, and I hope
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our listeners today can see that maybe in themselves and
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just walk away with some reflection from today.
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Awesome. Well, before we get into it, I think it's great when
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our listeners get to know us just a little bit. You know, you hear this
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voice, but who is this person behind the voice? They're just asking questions. We
1:53
don't actually know who they are. So let's start with a little bit of an
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icebreaker, just to give. Give them a little bit of a glimpse into
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who we are. And, hey, if our listeners enjoy this,
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maybe we'll do a few of these episodes once in a while just to, you
2:06
know, behind the scenes, and we can discuss these questions
2:10
further and dive in deeper into what it means to be a good neighbor. So
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the question I had, Shannon, and feel free
2:17
to take this conversation over because I. I don't know if we actually
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decided that I'm leading this conversation, but
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before the icebreaker, even. Shannon, how's this podcast journey
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been going for you? I mean, you're new to this. You kind of just jumped
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into it your first few episodes. Hey, I think you're doing a
2:35
great job with your interviews, but how do you feel it's going? Well,
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thanks for the question and the encouragement because, yeah,
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you're right. It has been totally brand new. Not
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really something I ever would have. I, you know,
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could have planned to be doing. And so it's great, of course,
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having a team with you and everyone else at Care
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Impact, that is just encouraging and supportive, for sure. There's
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a lot that has surprised me about doing the podcast. You know,
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I think there's just something about when you put a microphone in front of
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somebody that naturally it can just feel
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weird for people. And learning how to
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have conversations that feel natural but without,
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you know, letting the kind of. I think some of the fear of, oh, this
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is being recorded and it's going out into the world, that's
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been something that. The challenge of that, I think, has surprised me a little
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bit because I think the conversations that we're having are
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important and should be shared. And the people that
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I ask to come on, or that, you know, people on our team ask to
3:44
come on, have so much meaningful wisdom
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and thoughts that are important to put out in the world.
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And I want people to feel as comfortable as possible, but
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I know sometimes you just have to kind of jump into the deep end and
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go for it. So that's been surprising, but a fun
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challenge and journey to be going on with, with this
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project for me, and. I know it's even challenging
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for some people that you want to interview to convince them to come on the
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podcast. I know that's been my experience. Yeah, it's really not
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that bad. It's exactly. Come on, let's have a
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conversation. If you're listening to this podcast and I have asked
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you, or, you know, you have a little nudge
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maybe from the Holy Spirit that you have something to share, can I just
4:31
encourage you that you. You likely have
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something to share that other people need to hear. And I've probably
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said that before, but it's something that I believe, and I
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think God does work in our lives
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in and through us, in order to glorify him
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and make his name known. And so the things that he
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uses us for, I don't think that's supposed to stop with us and just keep
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that to ourselves. And so it's not prideful to come on and
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share the ways that you care about other people. It's biblical,
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and I just want that to be an encouragement to People that
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this is a space to bring glory to God by sharing how
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he's working in and through us. And Shannon's not so
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scary, so I hope not, if that's your hesitation. Well,
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she's like a kitty cat. So good. Oh, no, I don't like
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cats. Okay. I'm a dog. I'm a Labrador
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retriever. There, we already learned something new about you. You don't like cats.
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I don't. I'm a dog person. How about this question for an icebreaker? What's
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something that you've learned about yourself this last year? We're coming into New Year.
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Something that you learned about yourself last year that surprised you? Yeah,
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I sat with this question ahead of time for a long time,
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and I was like, man, I feel like there's a lot that has
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surprised me this year. 2025 was a lot of
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growth and learning for me. And I think one of those big
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things is that I am not quite
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as adaptable as I thought I was or as I want to
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be. I want to be someone who's so super, just
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go with the flow and can kind of roll with anything.
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And I've learned that that doesn't come as naturally
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to me. I think I like the consistency of,
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you know, things. And I think if I'm being honest, it's probably
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me trying to maintain control and so, you know,
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learning to actually surrender that and, like, let the Lord
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guide my life. So I'm working on it. But what about you,
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Johan? I'm curious for you. What's something you've learned about yourself
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that surprised you this year? I don't like being bad at things.
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So I, I, I have to think about this one, too.
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It doesn't mean I'm not bad at things. I just don't like being bad at
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things. But I'm realizing that I'm not a great networker.
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Like, especially in person, when there's like a crowd that's more than
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eight people, I kind of get lost a little bit. I don't know if it's
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introvertedness or what, but I'm not the kind of person that can just
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go up to a group and start chatting away and finding out about the
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lives. But it's great one on one. Like, I love small groups. I could do
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that all day long. But, yeah, realizing I'm not a great networker, which,
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which is difficult when you're working with a charity and you're
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trying to raise funds for your charity and support
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for your charity. Right. You gotta be a good networker. So. Something I'm working
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on. Yeah, It's a skill. It's a muscle to grow.
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And I. I'm with you. It's not my favorite thing
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either. I. I find I just force myself in
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those situations, and it's hard. But you're doing great.
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It's weird. Like, if someone asked me to speak in front of a crowd, I
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could do that, too. And I can lead worship in front of
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a thousand people without any trouble, but ask me to have a
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conversation. Nope. Sorry. That's okay. We have our
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strengths. So, Shannon, you want to get us back into our
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conversation? The question that we started this podcast out with, one we're
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going to wrestle with today. Yeah. So today we are talking about
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how do we care about. Care for each other, care for community,
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but without trying to fix everything. So we are
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going to reflect on that a little bit. Johan, what are you. What thoughts come
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to mind for you with that question? Well, this one's hard for me. I
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don't know if it's inherently. Because I'm male. We tend
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to do this where we like to fix things, so we
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automatically go to problem solving mode. How do we
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fix this problem? Especially in marriage. That's the first example
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that comes up. And I love researching. I optimize. I
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like to make things work more efficiently and better, so that's always where my mind
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goes first. So this is one that I really struggle with. And
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I don't like leaving things unresolved and in the air. That
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drives me bananas. Yeah. What about you?
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I struggle with this, too. And I think for me,
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it's. I think it's because for me, fixing
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feels like it's loving. Like it feels like I
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am doing something. And I don't. I really don't like
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other people being in pain. Like, it deeply just
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unsettles me. And so my first instinct, if someone
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is, you know, going through something, it's like, okay, how do I make this better?
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How do I help? How do I. How do I fix this?
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Yeah, I don't. I don't know where else it comes from besides that, but
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I think, yeah, on the surface, it's like, I. I don't want someone
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struggling, and so how can I help change their
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circumstances? Do you think sometimes, though, when people
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come to you expressing their challenge,
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what do you automatically think? Do you think they're coming to you for advice, or
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is it for presence? Because I think it depends on the way we think. If
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people come to us with a problem, I think they want me to fix it
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for Them. I don't automatically go to presence, so I think
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it's maybe just our default. I don't know. Yeah, no, I think
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you're spot on. I think people really want to be seen and
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heard, and that really is
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oftentimes, I think what they're looking for and
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just need someone to listen. I think in all of our
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episodes so far, we've talked a lot about listening
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and episodes this season, I should say. And,
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yeah, that comes up again and again. Just people wanting to
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be hurt. Will someone listen to my story? Will someone listen to
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what I'm navigating? And so much happens in that space
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without even trying to solve it or fix what they're going through.
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And you're right when you say fixing often feels like care.
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Yeah, because we want to help people. Right. We want to build
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stronger community. And sometimes sitting with
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silence can feel awkward. That's sometimes hard just to
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listen. Especially like for me, if it's a
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situation that I know I have gifting in and can solve,
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that's the hardest to not jump in and say, I could fix that for you.
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But sometimes I just want to listen. Can you think of any
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specific moments, maybe where this was
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a situation in your life? Oh, yeah. And you mentioned this a little
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bit earlier, but I see it a lot in marriage. And
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I'm. I'm pretty. Pretty young in my marriage where we just
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had. I think we're around a year and a half of marriage. And so
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definitely by no means do we have lots of experience or
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knowledge. But, you know, you see when. When two people come together,
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you see kind of some of those different friction points. And so I was processing
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this with my husband before today, and
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this comes up a lot, I would say, in when we're navigating
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conflict. So if we're working through some type of
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challenge or whatever. The issue is I don't like
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the feeling of tension and I don't really like
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conflict to begin with. And so my instinct is like, okay,
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let's just figure out what needs to be done.
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I'm going to apologize, and then I'm going to do this, this and this
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and just come up with next steps. Whereas
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if he's coming to me with, you know, expressing something that
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I did that, you know, was unkind or whatever,
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oftentimes he wants me to listen
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and just wants me to. To be there and
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not just jump to, okay, here's what I'm gonna do differently next time. Like, we'll
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get to that. But I. I just might. My
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instinct is to just get to, okay, let's problem solve and get past
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this so that I don't have to really sit in that. The kind of
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uncomfortability of the tension. Are you more the
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fixer than your husband, would you say? I
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think we both have the different tendencies where he will at
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times, but I think it tends to be
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my kind of gut reaction is to first go to
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fixing. Whereas I think him, it's more natural
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to pause. So I'm learning a lot from that. Of
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course, he has pastoral experience, so he's used to that pause. Right. So
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yeah, he's really good at listening and just sitting with
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people. And I again, I want to be that way,
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but I just jumped to what can I do first?
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What about you, Johan? How have you seen this show up in
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your life? It's hard for me to think of an example except for something that
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happened recently. I'm not going to mention who it was specifically, but a
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close, younger family member just went through some heartbreak
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and just trying to navigate that. It's like I could give you a list
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of ways to help you to move on and think about your future,
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but then you got to balance. I'm so sorry that happened to you. I'm
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sorry you need to sit with that grief for a while, but time's probably going
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to heal the wound sort of thing. It's hard to really strike that
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balance, especially when it's someone that you care about because you don't
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want to see them go through the herd and through the challenge and the
14:07
uncomfortableness. You want to see them happy. So
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here's. Here's a way to make you a little bit happier when that often does
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the opposite, where they just need someone to listen, they need someone to love them,
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they need someone to sit with them with presence. Yeah, I think
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that is so relatable, Johan. And it really takes
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us into the scripture that we want to. To dive into a little bit
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today. And we're gonna hop into John,
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chapter 11. This passage really just. Just helps us
14:37
to slow down. Do you want to read that or would you like me to?
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Sure, I'll pull it out here. Yep. Verse 32.
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And this is the passage about Lazarus.
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After he died, when Mary arrived and saw Jesus,
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she fell at his feet and said, lord, if only you had been there,
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my brother would not have died. And when Jesus saw her weeping
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and saw the other people wailing with her, a deep anger welled up within
15:04
him and he was deeply troubled. Where have you put him? He
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asked. And they told him, lord, come and See,
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then Jesus wept. The people who were standing nearby
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said, see how much he loved him. Okay,
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so here we are sitting with
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Mary, kind of complaining, jesus, if you had been here,
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my brother would not have died. Now, this is funny
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because earlier in the passage, I'm pretty sure
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Martha said the exact same thing. And they said they said it to
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him separately. So obviously they were discussing this together. Complaining about
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Jesus meant, why wasn't he here? Our
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brother would have survived. So, like this complaining in the
15:49
background, behind the scenes, but then they're bringing it right to Jesus.
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And the funny thing is, Jesus knows how this story ends,
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right? He can solve the problem, and he's going to.
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He's not going to tell them he's going to yet, but he still weeps.
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So he has a solution. He knows how it ends, and he still
16:08
weeps. And he lets them wrestle with the question, and he
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lets them mourn and complain to him. So,
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like, why does he do this? Why didn't he just solve the
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problem and avoid the complaining and avoid the
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weeping and sitting with the feelings? Why do you think this, Shannon?
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Yeah, man, when I get to heaven, I'm going to ask him
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for sure. But, man, I think
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we see that to Jesus what was important
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first was to see people and to
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acknowledge where they were at and meet them there. And we
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see that by his presence that he didn't jump
16:50
to fixing. He got to that later. But what was more
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urgent than that was just being with his people
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and weeping. I think that teaches us a
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lot that what's important isn't actually what
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we're going to do to address the issue or the problem,
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but how we sit with people first
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and allow those feelings to come up and allow
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healing to come through just grieving together.
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That's so good, what you said. Basically, fixing wasn't
17:26
urgent to Jesus at that time, but presence was. And
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sitting with the pain and the struggles that they had
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and letting them air that out and just listening
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and greeting with them at the same time. Like, he. He wasn't just
17:41
smiling, knowing that he had an answer, but he actually sat to grieve with him.
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He wept. Yeah, no, that's so good. And I.
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I think the struggle in this for us
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as humans is that we don't feel like presence is enough.
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We feel like just sitting and pausing for a
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moment doesn't actually do anything.
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And I think this is, for me, where it really, like, kind
18:08
of gets to the core of why my first instinct
18:12
is to. Is to do something is because I
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consciously or subconsciously I kind of want to be the hero.
18:20
I want to be the one who helps someone go from, you
18:24
know, sorrow to joy. And that's not my
18:27
place. That's a space only Jesus
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can fill and a need that only he can meet.
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And so when we try to step into that, it's just not the
18:39
same. I think it's that need to be or feel
18:42
useful. Right. Because if you don't have an answer, it's like, well,
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I'm kind of inadequate for what you need right now.
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And that's the thing. Like he says, in your weakness, I am strong. So
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it's actually an opportunity for the Holy Spirit to move at least space
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for him to move and get the glory rather than us fixing it, but just
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sitting in that weakness. You know what? I don't have answers, but I have presence
19:04
and I have the Holy Spirit as a presence
19:07
within me. And if I could sit with you with that, maybe he can fill
19:10
that gap. Right. That's a. I think it's something
19:14
that God has been speaking to me personally in a lot of areas of my
19:18
life is ultimately, where do I find
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my identity? Do I find my identity and my self worth even
19:26
in the things that I'm doing and the
19:30
experience or feelings I'm helping create for other people?
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Or am I finding it solely in who
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God says I am as his child? And
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I think when our care and our compassion comes
19:45
from that place, it goes much deeper
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than maybe coming from a place of, is insecurity
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really of like, oh, I want to feel useful, I want to be the hero.
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Because if I'm not, then what am I? And
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flipping that to say, I am rested in my
20:03
identity as a child of God and I'm going to be here with you
20:06
and we're going to seek him together and we're going to seek his will for
20:10
your life. Approaching it from that perspective is
20:14
so much more valuable. That's so good. He says
20:18
presence can make you a better neighbor. That's. Yeah, it's
20:22
quite profound. Yeah. Let's go to the other side of things. What about a
20:25
time when someone stayed with you without fixing where they
20:29
didn't expect you to be the fixer? Can you think of any examples
20:33
of that? Yeah, I, I think of some
20:37
examples, but I, I really think about specific people in my life that I've
20:40
noticed are really good at this. I have one friend that came to
20:44
mind right away who, she's also
20:48
a trained therapist. And so I think some of that
20:51
she's really like honed in on her skills and her giftings. But
20:55
she is, I think, just naturally, she's so good at asking
20:58
questions that make people feel seen. There was a time a few months
21:02
back where I was just sharing with her something I was going through,
21:06
and she just responded
21:10
with compassion and acknowledging what I was
21:14
feeling and asking questions about just
21:18
how that experience has been, and then pointing me to the Lord
21:22
and just acknowledging like, God is with you in that.
21:26
And that made me feel so cared for. She might
21:30
even be someone who probably would have some great wisdom and some great
21:33
suggestions on how to navigate what I was going through, given her
21:38
professional experience. But she didn't. She just sat with me
21:41
in that, and that was really, really meaningful.
21:45
What about for you? Yeah, similar to me, I have an older friend
21:49
that I see at church pretty much every week, and we
21:53
have a conversation pretty much every week. And it's just him checking in.
21:57
And I check in with him, too, and he just sits there
22:01
and listens. I often have things come up in my life that
22:04
I'm struggling with, situations that are challenging,
22:08
stressful. And he doesn't solve things. He just
22:12
sits there and he wrestles with me. There's empathy, but I feel
22:15
heard, right? And that's enough for me to go home feeling
22:19
confident that I was heard. And I can wrestle with it with the Lord, knowing
22:22
that there's someone in my corner. And then also
22:25
there's, you know, those times where
22:29
it was the opposite, where maybe someone gave advice that was
22:33
painful to us or hard. And I was thinking about
22:37
this where I think I actually have not had a lot of these
22:40
experiences, thankfully. But I can think of moments where I
22:44
did that, where I, you know, gave advice or just
22:48
responded in a way that wasn't. Wasn't presence.
22:52
I remember a while back, I was probably a teenager, a young
22:56
teenager, someone I love, lost a family
23:00
member. And my response,
23:03
looking back, oh, I wish I could take those words back. And
23:07
some of it, I know I was young, so there's naivety there. But I
23:11
responded with, well, you know, they were really sick
23:15
for a long time and now they're not, type of
23:18
thing. And it's like, okay, that's true. But
23:22
basically how the person responded was like, well, okay,
23:26
but just because they were sick doesn't make it any easier that they're
23:30
gone now. And I just. That stuck with me for
23:33
a long time. And I pray that I haven't
23:37
responded any similar way since then. But really what
23:41
that person needed was for me to just say, yeah, it's really hard.
23:45
And we're in it together. Yeah. I think there's
23:49
a reason why Scripture says he mourns with those who mourn
23:53
rather than he fixes those who mourn. Right. There's something to that where
23:57
people just need that presence. They need someone to feel that empathy and sit
24:00
with it, which is the example we just saw there in.
24:04
In the Lazarus story. So I think we need our listeners to
24:08
wrestle with this themselves rather than us coming up with
24:11
answers. Because, again, this isn't about having answers.
24:15
This is about shared wrestle, things that we
24:18
as neighbors wrestle with. So how do we care without
24:22
fixing? That's something I think we all need to wrestle with in our own circles,
24:26
because we all have different personalities. We all have different responses to
24:29
people's struggles. But know that presence matters.
24:33
We gotta ask ourselves, why does silence feel so uncomfortable to us?
24:37
Or do we fix because we care? Or because we
24:41
need that control, which I know you mentioned earlier, is that need for
24:44
control? And who taught us to feel that usefulness
24:48
equals love rather than presence? So I don't have
24:52
answers to these questions, but we can sit with them. Yeah.
24:55
And I think there's some practices that we can leave with listeners today
24:59
that help us in navigating those
25:02
questions. So a few things I'd love listeners
25:06
to think about this week is notice when you feel the urge
25:10
to fix. And I have an aunt
25:14
that always says, practice the pause. And I'm like, that's great advice.
25:17
And so when you notice that urge, practice the pause and
25:22
try presence. Just try being there.
25:25
Whether it is quiet and you are just sitting with somebody,
25:29
or you just give some encouraging words
25:33
to say, I'm here for you. Things like that
25:36
sounds really heavy. Or I'm really glad you told me. Those are
25:41
some great language you can use to just be with
25:44
somebody and just allow
25:48
the Holy Spirit to use you in that moment. You don't have to have all
25:51
the answers. You won't have all the answers, and I promise you that.
25:55
Especially when it's, you know, some deep hurts that
25:59
we're not meant to come in and solve and
26:02
fill the deep needs that people have. There's only one who can
26:06
do that. So just allow yourself to
26:10
just be there and be a friend. That's so good. This was an
26:13
encouraging and provoking conversation for me, Shannon, and I
26:17
hope it was for our listeners, too. So, listeners, if you
26:21
found this encouraging, let us know. If you want us to have more of these
26:24
conversations, that would be helpful, because feedback.
26:28
We don't want to fix this podcast, but we want to sit with you guys
26:32
in presence and in a more meaningful way.
26:35
So bye. The stories we share
26:39
here remind us that CARE doesn't have to be perfect to be
26:42
powerful, it just has to be present. Neighbourly
26:46
is an initiative of Care Impact, a Canadian charity equipping
26:50
churches, agencies and communities with tech and training to
26:53
care better together. Visit CareImpact CA
26:57
or to find out more about the podcast sponsorships, being a guest
27:01
or just dropping us a line, visit NeighborlyPodcast CA.
27:05
We'd love to hear from you. Check the show notes for the link or
27:09
hop on our Care Impact Podcast group on Facebook to join our
27:12
podcast community. I'm Johan. Thanks for listening
27:16
and keep being the kind of neighbor someone will never forget in
27:20
a good way.
27:25
Tearing down walls of building
27:29
up the bridges between the stones
27:33
Love is turning over tables
27:37
Breaking off chains When I see you
27:41
in a stranger I'm no longer a
27:44
stable table
27:49
Tearing out walls Building
27:53
under bridges between us.