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1940s Books Part 1 · We Regret Nothing

• Sean: Welcome back to We Regret Nothing. I'm Sean, and today we're turning the page on a new category as we begin exploring the books of the 1940s. Over the first three episodes of the season, Andrea, Michelle, and I traveled through the films of the decade, ultimately selecting the five movies we believe best represent the 1940s. Now, it's time to see what was happening on the printed page. The 1940s were marked by war, recovery, uncertainty. In-Person: Welcome back to We Regret Nothing. Sean: And profound social change. Authors responded with stories of courage, identity, loss, hope, and the complexities of a rapidly changing world. Some of these books offered escape. Others forced readers to confront difficult truths. Together, they helped define the literary voice of this decade. In this episode, Andrea, Michelle, and I will introduce the first ten books from our list of the top 20 books of the 1940s. Over the next few episodes, we'll examine all 20 contenders, narrow them down to a top ten, and ultimately select the five books worthy of a place in our cultural time capsule. So, find a comfortable chair, crack open a well-loved hardcover, and join us as we begin our exploration of the books that help shape the 1940s. Welcome, Michelle. Hello. Hello, Andrea. In-Person: crack open a well-loved hardcover and join us as we begin our exploration of the books that helped shape the 1940s. Welcome, Michelle. Hello. Hello, Andrea. Sean German. My friends call me Sean. Sean German. ⁓ let's start with ⁓ if we could Sean: My friends call me Sean. Sean German. ⁓ let's start with ⁓ if we could, ⁓ does anybody ⁓ have actually Andrea, do you have any thoughts in general about books in the nineteen forties? Yeah, there's as I went through the list, ⁓ a lot of these books n not all of them, ⁓ I've read. ⁓ I knew of all of them though. ⁓ In-Person: Du does anybody ⁓ have actually Andrea, do you have any thoughts in general about books in the nineteen forties? Yeah, there's as I went through the list, ⁓ a lot of these books n not all of them, I'm t i I've read. I knew of all of them though. There's just so many it's it's so different from from the thirties in in the way that things are written, like as we get through the list and you'll see what I mean, 'cause I don't wanna spoiler alert everybody, but it's just ⁓ like I felt it was very in some aspects gloves off. Like, you know what, motherfuckers, this is what it's like to be this. This is how this looks here. This is you know, some of the there's a book on here that basically I just have as an advertisement for Catholicism. It was incredibly it was so like and then when I I read more about it, I went, ⁓ I'm right. which doesn't happen a lot as you know, husband. ⁓ but yeah, they're ⁓ some a lot of them are just so incredibly Dark and I mean by color, like just dark grey sad, but they're also exposing or showing truth. So it's it kind of takes away. And I I see why a lot like publishers were like, okay, we just had a literal second world war when we were supposed to not have another world war and here's how it is. So with a few exceptions. This list is bleak. Bleak. Yes. Yes. It's okay. No, Sean, you did a great job. Yeah, it's not you didn't like books. The list Yeah. So yeah, it's bleak. Michelle, anything other than it's the list is bleak. Thank God there's a couple of kids' books. That's it. I I should probably say a little ⁓ behind the curtain. I threw those in for you. Thank you. Sean: Here's how it is. So with a few exceptions, this list is bleak. Bleak. Yes. Yes. It's okay. No, Sean, you did a great job. And if not, you didn't books. Yeah. yeah. It's bleak. Michelle, anything other than it's the list is bleak. Thank God there's a couple of kids' books. That's it. I I should probably say a little ⁓ behind the curtain. I threw those in for you. So ⁓ okay, so let's ⁓ jump into the the list here. So we're starting you wanna talk about bleak, but ⁓ number one, the diary of a young girl. ⁓ this is Anne Frank. This is commonly referred to as the Diary of Anne Frank, ⁓ but it's a book of the writings from the Dutch language diary kept by Anne Frank while she was in hiding for two years with her family during the Nazi occupation of the Netherlands. Family was apprehended in 44. Frank died ⁓ of typhus in a concentration camp in 45, and then ⁓ the diaries were retrieved, and ⁓ yeah. It just makes me sad even reading that. So, ⁓ Andrea. Mm mm. Michelle, what do you think? I'm gonna try to make Andrea laugh. How I escaped reading this book, I've never I've never Never Not once. I mean I feel like I feel lucky now looking at your face. And I it's not like I don't know about it or what's it Yeah, you were working what's this gonna be about? This seems fun. ⁓ it's not like I don't but I I never In-Person: Michelle, what do you think? Alright, I'm gonna try to make Andrea laugh. How I escaped reading this book, I don't know. I never I've never Never? Not once. I mean I feel like I feel lucky now looking at your face. ⁓ and it's not like I don't know about it or what's it? Yeah, you were working what's this gonna be about? This seems fun. ⁓ it's not like I don't but I n I never I have never read it. I don't know that ⁓ I would have had it been assigned to me, probably, but I don't think I would touch this now. I think well now would be the best time to read it because now it's in its entirety. They literally said like when you if you did read it in school or if you found it in your school library or if just your mother bought every book in the world and that's how you came across it. ⁓ My mom can't spell book. They they literally Hopefully she never listens to this podcast. Come on. but they literally removed Sean: I think well now would be the best time to read it because now it's in its entirety. They literally said, like when you if you did read it in school, or if you found it in your school library, or if just your mother bought every book in the world and that's how you came across it. I'm not can't spell a book. Hopefully she never listens to this podcast. Come on. but they literally removed the part. In-Person: The parts that I find this funny. I bring a little bit of where she talks about like somebody in the annex, because that's what it was a walled off annex. Somebody had gas, and she's like, I just have to sit here and breathe these farts. And it's like, I can't like it, but they took that out because they were like, ⁓ that's offensive. The little girl who got dragged away by the Nazis and died in a camp. That we can read about, but God forbid, gas from or her budding sexuality. Yeah. Or getting her. period or any of those things that would naturally happen around that age. Yeah. And she writes about like it's sad. Like she writes about how she doesn't really feel connected to her mom and she has a really good relationship with her dad. And then I mean, I think there's a lot of people that can say during their especially that time of of life, thirteen to fifteen, ⁓ that y t to be in close quarters like that Sean: Or any of those things that would naturally happen around that age. Yeah, and she writes about like it's sad, like she writes about how she doesn't really feel connected to her mom and she has a really good relationship with her dad. And then I mean I think there's a lot of people that can say during their especially that time of of life, 13 to 15, that to be in close quarters like that. In-Person: With your parents, your siblings, your dad's business partner and his family, you know, I'm I can't fucking imagine it. And that is why, and I just have to throw this in too, when fucking Justin Bieber wrote at the guest book She Would've Been a Belieber, that's when that Canadian twat should have been like just as far. He literally wrote She Would'a Been a Belieber. It it is real, but This girl hasn't gone through enough? Sean: With your parents, your siblings, your dad's business partner, and his family. You know, I'm I can't fucking imagine it. And that is why, and I just have to throw this in too, when fucking Justin Bieber wrote at the guest book, She Would've Been a Belieber, that's when that Canadian twat should have been like just spark. He literally wrote She Would've Been a Belieber. It it is real, but This girl hasn't gone through enough? In-Person: It's but this is something I think that should be taught like I think kids need re reading this to school, especially kids of Oklahoma. ⁓ I say that 'cause they're v they're governor in education and that little guy that's now in charge of homeland security. The little fidget guy. No? You're just glaring at me. it's it's very I can't even say it's well written. It's a good book. It's it's a diary. And it it ⁓ it's fucking heartbreaking. Sean: I can't even say it's well written. It's a good book. It's it's a diary. And it ⁓ it's fucking heartbreaking. Always agrees. Almost agrees. So here's the deal. I I think I've stated this on the podcast, I'll restate it. At least I've stated it in my personal life around friends and family. ⁓ I n I never took my education seriously. ⁓ In-Person: And even the cat's upset about it. So here's the deal. I think I've stated this on the podcast, I'll restate it. At least I've stated it in my personal life around friends and family. I I never took my education seriously. and then so that coupled with the fact that and my memory's not great, but in school, this book I've never read this book. I had no idea what this book was about, other than ⁓ that she wrote it while hiding in a closet from the Nazis. So the Sean: And then so that coupled with the fact that and my memory's not great, but in school, this book I've never read this book. I had no idea what this book was about, other than that she wrote it while hiding in a closet from the Nazis. So the the one good thing about and there's many good things. I get to see you two, we get to have fun recording a show, but I get to learn a lot of things that I think ⁓ I I I just I wish that I would have learned a long time ago. ⁓ and and this Background on this book was one of the things that I was like, didn't know any of that. So let me just go back to the beginning of ⁓ so Anne Frank ⁓ received a blank diary as one of her presents on June 12th, 1942. It was her 13th birthday. The dates mattered to me. So June 12, 1942. So ⁓ the day before, ⁓ while browsing a bookstore with her dad, she picked out this red checkered autograph book. Wasn't even a diary, it was an autograph book. ⁓ but In-Person: ⁓ but and she entered a one-sentence note on her birthday writing, I hope I will be able to confide everything to you, as I have never been able to confide in anyone, and I hope you will be a great source of comfort and support. on July 5th, so that is less than a month later, ⁓ and then 16-year-old sister Margot received an official summons to report to a Nazi work camp in Germany. And the next day, on the July 6th. Sean: And she entered a one sentence note on her birthday writing, I hope I will be able to confide everything to you, as I have never been able to confide in anyone, and I hope you will be a great source of comfort and support. ⁓ On July 5th, so that is less than a month later, ⁓ Anne's then 16-year-old sister Margot received an official summons to report to a Nazi work camp in Germany. And the next day, on j ⁓ July 6th, ⁓ Margot and Ann went into hiding with their parents, Otto and Edith. They were later joined by Herman Van Pels, Otto's business partner, as well as his wife, August, ⁓ and their teenage son Peter. So their hiding place was in a sealed-off upper ⁓ room of the annex at the back of Otto's company and ⁓ building in Amsterdam. ⁓ Otto had started this company, ⁓ it was named Opecta in 1933. ⁓ he was licensed to manufacture and sell pectin. ⁓ a substance used to make jam. He stopped running his business while he was in hiding, obviously. But once he returned in the summer of 45 ⁓ 45, he found his employees had continued running it in his absence. The rooms that everyone hid in were concealed behind a movable bookcase in the same building as Opecta. ⁓ Fritz Pfeffer, ⁓ the dentist of their helper I'm Mike Guys, ⁓ joined them for ⁓ four months later. So let's see, ⁓ that's In-Person: Jam. He stopped running his business while he was in hiding, obviously. But once he returned in the summer of 45 ⁓ 45, he found his employees had continued running it in his absence. The rooms that everyone hid in were concealed behind a movable bookcase in the in the same building as Opecta. ⁓ Fritz Pfeffer, ⁓ the dentist of their helper, I might. Sean: Four, seven, there's like ten people in this in this ⁓ this what I assume to be a kind of a small ⁓ area, but they remained hidden for two years and one month. And on ⁓ the here's the dates again though. On June 6th, 1944. Allied forces commenced ⁓ the Normandy landings in France. The group was aware of this development and hopeful for what was to come. On August ⁓ August 4th, 1944, six weeks before the Allies breached the Belgian-Dutch border, the group was discovered hiding and deporting to and deported to Nazi concentration camps. ⁓ and so six weeks. They were in there for two years and one month, and it they fell six weeks short of of what I would call success. But that the it was long. Thought that they had been betrayed, although there are more indications now that their discovery was purely accidental. The police raided the the an actual target for ration fraud and ⁓ and just happened to find behind the bookcase these folks hiding. But of of the eight people, ⁓ so there were eight people, sorry. Only Otto Frank survived the war. In-Person: Of what I would call success. But that it was long thought that they had been betrayed, although there are more indications now that their discovery was purely accidental. The police raided an actual target for ration fraud and ⁓ and just happened to find behind the bookcase these folks hiding. But of the eight people, ⁓ so there were eight people, sorry. Only Otto Frank survived the war. Like I mentioned, Anne was 15 when she died in the Bergen Belsen concentration camp. Sean: Like I mentioned, Anne was fifteen ⁓ when she died in the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp in Germany. ⁓ the exact date of her death is unknown and is long believed to be in late February or early March, just a few weeks before that camp was liberated by British troops. So I know it's heartbreaking, but those are the things that I learned that kind of mattered to me. With and they might not matter to anybody else, but it was just more, I think, heartbreaking than the actual story itself. ⁓ So this diary's been published in more than 70 languages. ⁓ it's received widespread critical and popular attention. ⁓ And so Andrea Andrea's point, ⁓ so in 1986, the Dutch Institute for War Documentation published what was called the critical edition of the diary, containing comparisons from all known versions, both edited and unedited. and so discussion asserting the diary's auth authentication and additional histor ⁓ historical information relating to the family and the diary itself all got sussed out. And so this is like the this is the book. This is every In-Person: So I know it's heartbreaking, but those are the things that I learned that kind of matter to me. And they might not matter to anybody else, but it was just more, I think, heartbreaking than the actual story itself. ⁓ So this diary's been published in more than 70 languages. It's received widespread critical and popular attention. ⁓ And so Andrea, Andrea's point, ⁓ so in 1986, the Dutch Institute for War Documentation published what was called the critical edition of the Sean: Everything ⁓ they believe possibly in it. ⁓ included sections of Anne's diaries which had previously been edited out containing passages on pondering her own sexuality, references to touching her friends' breasts, her thoughts on menstruation, ⁓ and an edition that was published in ninety five, just three years before, included Anne's description of exploring her own genitalia and her confusion regarding sex and childbirth. at some point in history, all those have kind of been edited out of this book, but In-Person: To touching her friends' breasts, her thoughts on menstruation, and an edition that was published in 95, just three years before, included Anne's description of exploring her own genitalia and her confusion regarding sex in childbirth. At some point in history, all those have kind of been edited out of this book. But to Andrew's point, if you get the book since 1998, you can read all of this. ⁓ Okay. Number two. Sean: To Andrey's point, if you get the book since 1998, you can read all of this. So ⁓ okay. Number two, The Stranger. The Stranger. Also pu I I got confused about this one. This is the French again, but also published in English as The Outsider. ⁓ this is a nineteen forty-two novella written by French author. Help me out again, Camus. Camus. Camus. Alber Albert. Albert. Go fuck yourself. There's a T. There's no T There's a T right there. I'm looking at it. Okay, so Albert Camus. ⁓ this is the first of Camus novels to be published. The story follow ⁓ follows Mersol. I know, because I'm seeing a T and I didn't pronounce it. ⁓ an indifferent man. ⁓ In-Person: The Stranger. Also pu I I got confused about this one. This is the French again. But also published in English as The Outsider. This is a 1942 novella written by French author. Help me out again. Camus. Albert Camus. Camus. Albert Albert. Albert Go fuck yourself. He's French. There's a T. There's no T's. There's a T right there. I'm looking at it. Okay. So Albert Camus. This is the first of Camus novels to be published. The story follow ⁓ follows Marsal. Mercil. I know because I'm seeing a T and I didn't pronounce it. Will you say the title in French? ⁓ Well, it'd be the stran their stranger, because there's no T's. There's no S in that word. The stranger. L'étranger. Okay. I'm gonna add you into the list real quick here. Okay, so sorry. ⁓ this follows Marcel, an indifferent man in French Algeria who weeks after his mother's funeral kills an unarmed Arab man in Algiers. Stories divided into two parts, presenting Sean: Well, it'd be the stran their stranger, because there's no Ts. No S words. Damn it. The stranger. Okay. I'm gonna add you into the list real quick here. ⁓ okay, so sorry. ⁓ th this follows Marsal, an indifferent man in French Algeria, who weeks after his mother's funeral, kills an unarmed Arab man in Algiers. Story's divided into two parts, presenting Marsal's first person narrative before and after the killing. That is Michelle. ⁓ the only In-Person: Marcel's first-person narrative before and after the killing. That is Michelle. ⁓ the only reason I knew about this was because of the cure. I do love how music introduces their first single released on ⁓ no, I have it in my own. Yeah, was ⁓ was called Killing an Arab. Sean: I do love how music introduces their first single released on ⁓ no, I have it in my notes. I got it. Go ahead. ⁓ In-Person: And as you might imagine, it met with w wildly crazy criticism because people don't read. Mm-hmm. And they just assumed that this was some kind of you know, racist. ⁓ yeah. So anyway, but then even after several I mean, okay, we'll talk about the book, but ⁓ It was clear that this was based on the book because the lyrics are exactly the plot of the fucking I gotta look Or the denomois anyway. It's the the the lyrics are that's exactly what fucking happens in the book. So anyway. ⁓ I Sean: It was clear that this was based on the book because the lyrics are exactly the plot of the fucking I gotta listen Or Dinamois anyway. It's the the the lyrics are that's exactly what fucking happens in the book. So anyway. I In-Person: I did not I have not read it, but I did know about it again because of the cure. but it seems to me, that if you want the ⁓ the too long didn't read literal version of this is that ⁓ nothing matters. Right? So you can weave your way through the world, ⁓ making choices, good, bad, right or wrong, and it doesn't matter because Everything's gonna play out the way it plays out and you're gonna end up dead anyway. So But it is, you know, mostly 'cause Merceau has no he's just like He's apathetic. He has no absolut he no remorse, no about anything about his mother's death, about the killing, about he's just he like figures like, well, I guess I'll just make this work and It's it yeah, it's it's bleak. He does not care what he did, he does not care why he did it, he doesn't even really know why he did it. It's quite yeah. Andrea? I am not I d ⁓ I have read this. I am not a fan of an apathetic protagonist. I do not Sean: It's it yeah, it's it's bleak. He does not care what he did, he does not care why he did it, he doesn't even really know why he did it. It's quite yeah. Andrea. I am not I ⁓ I have read this. I am not a fan of an apathetic protagonist. I do not In-Person: care for it's brilliantly written. It really is. Where it it in my opinion, it it it is brilliantly written. It is not a book I've ever gone back to revisit, and you know that I love to revisit books. ⁓ but I do that I mean kind of this was almost the same kind of problem I had with when I say I don't like an apathetic ⁓ protagonist. ⁓ Is that's very much how I felt like about ⁓ Holden Caulfield. ⁓ there's ⁓ God, who the fuck wrote the Ciderhouse Rules and World According to Garp? John Irving? Yes. It it Ciderhouse Rules. He's very I I want to feel something for the main character. Love, hate, but indifference is just it it's not an emotion I do well. Can we talk about that? Sean: there's God, who the fuck wrote the Ciderhouse Rules and World According to Gar John Irving? Yes. It it's Ciderhouse Rules. He's very I I want to feel something for the main character. Love, hate, but indifference is just it it's not an emotion I do well. Can we talk about that for a second? I say some crazy shit on this podcast. I fully acknowledge that. And so when I came across this part, I did more, I would argue, more research than I normally do when I throw out crazy shit. And I stand by my notes. So there are several ⁓ many people who have read this book, critics, ⁓ psychologists and many others, ⁓ that have noted that the actions and beliefs of the main character are most likely explained by autism. Marceau displays difficulties in communicating with others, sensory issues, difficulties in displaying emotions, and difficulties in understanding the emotions of others. I never fucking put that together. I just That would make sense. I read it in my research too. It's debated. It is debated. It's highly In-Person: Marceau displays difficulties in communicating with others, sensory issues, difficulties in displaying emotions, and difficulties in understanding the emotions of others. I never fucking put that together. I just fucked That would make so So it's in I read it in my research too. It's debated. It is debated. It's highly debated. But I can see that a consideration. Like if you're yeah. So there were the thing, the one thing ⁓ so two things. Although there was very limited knowledge of autism at the time that this book was. Sean: It I I but I can see that against a narration. Like if you're yeah. And so there the thing the one thing ⁓ so two things. Although there was very limited knowledge of autism at the time that this book was written, ⁓ Camus did say that ⁓ the main character based was based behavior and attitude of a close friend of his, Pierre Galindo, who in people who know Pierre Galindo would describe him today as autistic. In-Person: Written, ⁓ Camus did say that ⁓ the main character based was based on behavior and attitude of a close friend of his, Pierre Galindo, who in people who know Pierre Galindo would describe him today as autistic. So it is possible, maybe I'll step back a little bit and not say it did, but it is possible that Camus unwittingly created the first ever description of autism in literature. Sean: So it is possible, maybe I'll step back a little bit and not say it it did, but it is possible that Camus unwittingly created the first ever description of autism in literature. ⁓ and so I I would only say that not to to try to like counter or argue any of your thoughts or feelings on it, but if you re re read the book or re ⁓ In-Person: ⁓ and so I I would only say that not to to try to like counter or argue any of your thoughts or feelings on it, but if you re re read the book or re think about your feelings of the book under in using that filter, I don't know what it'll do, but maybe it'll change things. Part of the highly contested debatable part, which is why if you're feeling some kind of way about this, you maybe shouldn't, is that the people who are arguing that that perhaps Sean: Think about your feelings of the book under in using that filter. I don't know what it'll do, but maybe it'll change things. Part of the highly contested debatable part, which is why if you're feeling some kind of way about this, you maybe shouldn't, is that the people who are arguing that that perhaps Merceau was autistic, the people on the other side who are arguing In-Person: The people on the other side who are arguing ⁓ that he was just apathetic ⁓ are always took it. Right, are that ⁓ so he he shoots you know, the the guy on the beach, right? ⁓ and it's a fatal shot. He knows But then he shoots him four more times. Now, does he have emotion when he does that? Not necessarily, but he thinks about it and he shoots him four more times. People interpret that as that's revenge for the stabbing of his buddy. Right? So that would not be consistent with the way someone with autism might approach that situation. And at the End of the book where where he you know for like the first year in prison, he's just like, I'll look out the window, I'll eat my food, I'll do it, you know, just like I just because I don't care, and you know, and fate is what it is, I will just live my life here and be perfectly happy. But towards the end, like he the priest the priest comes, yes, the priest comes to talk to him and he starts to consider it a little bit, but even still, right, that that also would be inconsistent with because it Wouldn't matter what he said or how he tried to convince him that he would still just be like, I just literally don't even understand why you're like this has no of no consequence to me, right? So but that then would because y'all are using the term apathetic, and apathetic to the level that you're talking about, shooting somebody four times, not that that's actually sociopath. There's an antisocial personality disorder that better describes Sean: He the priest. The priest comes the priest comes to talk to him and he starts to consider it a little bit, but even still right, that that also would be inconsistent with because it wouldn't matter what yeah what he said or how he tried to convince him that he would still just be like, I just literally don't even understand why you're s like this has no of no consequence to me. Yeah, right. So But that then would because y'all are using the term apathetic. And apathetic to the level that you're talking about, shooting somebody four times, not care that that's actually sociopath. There's an ⁓ antisocial personality disorder that better describes what he might be path of I can't remember. What is using it as an over for the rest of the I mean that scene particularly is the whole book. Yeah. I mean honestly. But but the In-Person: What he's Is that athletics? I can't remember. I'm just using it as an over for the rest of the I mean that scene particularly is the whole book. Yeah. I mean, honestly. But but the way he's unfeeling about how his mother, right, he doesn't, you know, think about there might be some sociopath or psychopathic tendencies. Maybe but not autism. Right. But just not ⁓ not making the solid argument that he was autistic. Though very likely he might have been. Like so it's just Sean: way he's on feeling about how his mother right, he doesn't, you know Yeah. And there there might be some s so sociopath or psychopathic tendencies maybe more so than autism. Right. But just not ⁓ not making the solid argument that he was autistic, though very likely he might have been. But so it's just and and it is very likely ⁓ that a lot of people who suffer from any of these ⁓ disorders, ⁓ there's not just one. Right. There's generally several. So it could be, you know, a mixture. But I just thought it was interesting 'cause I kept hearing apathy and apathetic and and I just thought that was an interesting point to consider. In-Person: And and it is very likely ⁓ that a lot of people ⁓ who suffer from any of these ⁓ disorders, ⁓ there's not just one. Right. There's generally several. So it could be, you know, a mixture. But I just thought it was interesting because I kept hearing apathy and apathetic and and I just thought that was an interesting point to consider. ⁓ I don't know if y'all found this or knew about this, but in 2015 ⁓ there was a book written called the Merceau. Sean: ⁓ I don't know if y'all found this or knew about this, but in 2015, there was a book written called The Merceau Investigation by Kamal Daoud. ⁓ it's a novel created ⁓ to counter ⁓ Camus version. This is from the perspective of an Arab man described as the brother of the murdered man. ⁓ wow. Referred to only as the Arab by Camus. ⁓ in this novel he's said to have been named Musa and was an actual man who existed and was mourn by his brother. mother. So I would like to also just add more to the cure lore if I may. So that the sing that first single, Killing an Arab, was on Boys Don't Cry, which was their first like major like they It was their nineteen seventy eight day debut single. Yeah. When they released their greatest hits album, the first one, that album they named Standing on a Beach. So wow people who were like like ⁓ they're racist like clearly In-Person: Investigation by Kamal Daood. ⁓ It's a novel created ⁓ to counter Camus version. This is from the perspective of an Arab man described as a brother of the murdered man. ⁓ wow. Referred to only as the Arab by Camus. In this novel, he's said to have been named Musa and was an actual man who existed and was born by his brother and mother. I would like to also just add more to the cure lore, if I may. So that the single that first single, Killing an Herb, was on Boys Don't Cry, which was their first like major like they It was their nineteen seventy-eight debut single. When they released their greatest hits album, the first one, that album they named Standing on a Beach. So wow people who were like like, ⁓ they're racist, like clearly Robert Smith's a reader. Also I would like to add, and this is fucking terrible, that ⁓ hmm ⁓ American soldiers used both this song and Rock the Casbah during the Gulf War as kind of a rallying, right? Because those guys didn't read either. No. So that's fun. Float on the recordies they don't big readers. Fun, fun, fun. Sean: as kind of a wow rallying right because those guys didn't read either. No. So that's fun. Float on the marine groupies. I mean there's actually in literature, the Cure's probably the most famous example, but I have a list of all we don't have to go through all of that. But Avenge Sevenfold's first single was Nobody from Life is But a Dream. That w they say that was inspired by this this book, The Stranger. But anyway. In-Person: Avenged Sevenfold first single was Nobody from Life is But a Dream. They say that was inspired by this book, The Stranger. But anyway. I love the research you guys do. Like I will do, but I'm just like, I'm here to critique the book. You guys are like Well, that's that's the reason I'm book. I love it. No, I mean I'm I'm paying you guys a problem with me. No, I think really. I I so you know, I throw in things that I think you two would find interesting. It's always music from Michelle and Sean: I love the research you guys do. Like I will do but I'm just like I'm here to critique the book. You guys are like Well, that's that's the reason I love it. I love it. No, I mean I'm I'm paying you guys compliments. Yeah, no, I really I I so, you know, I th throw in things that I think you two would find interesting. It's always music for Michelle and cult but it I'm also doing this to try to like it. Talk you get In-Person: But it I'm also doing this to try to what do I get talk. You get You already know all this shit. No, but I I do try to throw things in that I think you would find interesting as well. And yeah. So but ⁓ also part of our consideration, I believe, is its tail. Like culturally, how, you know, relevant is it for how long? And ⁓ yeah. So anyway. The ⁓ it comes up in ⁓ Sean: No, but I'm I do try to throw things in that I think you would find interesting as well. So but ⁓ also part of our consideration, I believe, is its tail. Like culturally, how you know, relevant is it for how long? And ⁓ yeah. So anyway. They ⁓ it comes up in ⁓ in the stand. In-Person: in the stand. Because Harold Louder calls him Albert Camus. ⁓ I didn't find that. See, that's something I would have thrown in my research. I know cutie pie. And what's funny is Franny when he said sh she does not correct him because she's like it sh she he's a pompous ass. And she know but she doesn't want to be mean because she knows he won't take you know, we can tell you, it's Albert I'm not a pop pompous. You're not but I rem that but I'll tell you this, that's how I discovered that it was Camus. Sean: Because Harold Louder calls him Albert Camus. ⁓ I didn't find that. See, that's something I would have thrown into my research. I know, cutie fie. And what's funny is Franny, when he said she does not correct him because she's like, it sh she he's a pompous ass. And she know but she doesn't want to be mean because she knows he won't take. Right. You know, we can tell you it's Albert. I'm not a pomp pompous ass, I'm just a dumb. But I remember that but I'll tell you this, that's how I discovered that it was Camus. In-Person: Was when I read it when I was 10 and I was like, ⁓ because I saw that book on our bookshelf and it's by Albert Camus, you know. The Camus Washington. I was to say. Probably grew up next to a guy named Albert Camus. Alright, number three. Sean: read it when I was 10 and I was like ⁓ because I saw that book on our bookshelf and it's by Albert Camas you know the Canvas watch and Tony I was to say probably grew up next to the guy named Albert Camus All right, number three, Animal Farm. Andrew is clapping already. Okay. Animal Farm ⁓ is a satirical ⁓ Sean, what are your notes? A satirical, allegorical, dystopian novella. Go fuck yourself. Yeah, sure, but I gotta say it. When I write the notes, it looks great until I go, I gotta read I gotta say this on mic. ⁓ this is in the form of a beast fable by George Orwell, first published in England on August 17th, 1945. In-Person: Animal Farm. Andrew is clapping already. Okay. Animal Farm ⁓ is a satirical ⁓ Sean, what are your notes? The satirical allegorical dystopian novella. Go fucking. Yeah. That's it. Yeah, sure, but I gotta say it. When I write the notes, it looks great until I go, I gotta read I gotta say this on mic. ⁓ this is in a form of a beast fable by George Orwell, first published in England on August 17, 1945. It follows the mistreated farm. Sean: Five, it follows the mistreated farm animals of Manor Farm as they rebel against their human master and are hoping to create a society where all animals can be equal, free, and happy away from human vices and interventions. However, the rebellion is hijacked and betrayed, and under the dictat ⁓ dictatorship of the pigs, the farm ends up in a dystopian state nearly identical to what it was before. That is Andrew. It's me. It's me. I love Animal Farm. In-Person: Andrew. It's me. It's me. I love Animal Farm. Word. I lo I think it's I think it's such a great pardon me, tale to he I I feel that ⁓ this is absorbed better ⁓ by when it's taught in high school because it is animal plus the movies that they made of it, look which they're making one now. Somebody's making Animal Farm again. Yes. ⁓ I did see that. Sean: I love I think it's I think it's such a great pardon me tale to be I I feel that ⁓ this is absorbed better ⁓ by when it's taught in high school because it is animal plus the movies that they made of it, look which they're making one now. Somebody's making Animal Farm again. Yes. ⁓ I did see that. In-Person: But I remember like watching it at Mr. Whitaker's class and and but you know, and I had already read it a couple of times because we had to read it. ⁓ it was kinda like it was our chaser for nineteen eighty four in in what? eleventh grade CP? Yeah. ⁓ but It it's so well and I just I will always remember just the line I'm not gonna say it like word for word, so please don't but the end when when the pigs are sitting with the farmers And they can't tell the and they can't tell the difference. Like the other the animals looking or like they can't tell the difference there's there's no difference between them. ⁓ i it's d I mean It's so well done. It it there's a couple parts of it that always I don't know is always ⁓ a little bit Lord of the Flies to me. and not because of pigs, not because of piggy. But there there is like kinda that ⁓ and and I believe that it's still something that you see so much th it still happens here. Sean: And I believe that it's still something that you see so much that it still happens here all the time. You know, people start like, okay, we're gonna do away with this, and it's gonna be better under this, and then it's like, ⁓ god, is it worse now? Like if we would have left, you know, which I think this ⁓ the story might make some people where they're like, maybe we don't want change, even if they should have change. But ⁓ I In-Person: all the time. You know, people start like, okay, we're gonna do away with this and it's gonna be better under this, and then it's like, ⁓ god, is it worse now? Like if we would have left, you know, which I think this ⁓ the story might make some people where they're like, maybe we don't want change, even if they should have change. But I George did a damn good job. George is a dark motherfucker. George Orwell is dark. also the fact that we have two George Orwell on this and you know, I mean something is Orwellian, you know, because it's fucking bleak. So Michelle should have said this list was Orwellian. ⁓ missed opportunity. But ⁓ i I think it's I it still holds up today. I it still holds up today. Don't trust those pigs, man. Bird. Michelle. ⁓ Sean: I I think it's I it still holds up today. I it still holds up today. Don't trust those pigs, man. Michelle. I I hadn't thought about this until you said it, but I do think I think you're right. I think we had to read nineteen eighty-four first and then Animal Farm. In-Person: I hadn't thought about this until you said it, but I do think I think you're right. I think we had to read nineteen eighty-four first and then Animal Farm. Which I think is is a mistake. Yeah. I think well, you know, I mean, shout out Doug Whitaker, 'cause I wouldn't have read a lot of books in my life if it hadn't been for that dude. But ⁓ this one included, ⁓ I have ten out of ten, almost no notes. Yeah. Like it's it's and and part of it is for me, 'cause as we I'll say it every single time. I am not a reader. And in order for me to read and enjoy it, like I can read and not enjoy it, but if in order for me to read and enjoy it, it's gotta catch me pretty quickly. And God help me, it needs to be kind of ⁓ Not not too flowery. Depends on what I'm reading. But for this, I think it was written so simply and very plainly that it that again, while it's why it's good for consuming as a as a teenager. It's already come out. Is it Andy Circus? ⁓ huh. Andy Circus, Seth Rogan, Gayton Matter ⁓ sorry. Deb Buscemi, Glenn Close. Yeah, I it's Sorry, sorry, sorry. No, no, that's okay. And then I think and I mean whether this I mean, I'm certain that this was on purpose because most all of the stuff he did was very thought through and on purpose. So like even in the book, ⁓ the lesser animals just speak very simply. Yeah. Right? They say what they mean and they mean what they say, but the pigs are they they take words and make the language to fit what they want their agenda to be. We saw in 1984. The twisted, yeah. Yeah, the new seed. Yeah, exactly. So Yeah, I this I I love this book. I love that the flag looked like the hammer and sickle. I love that there was like like you'd have to be a real dumb not to not to make the connection. Yeah. And because it was so plain. And it's funny, ⁓ to to Sean to go off like Michelle and I ⁓ Whitaker taught this in the spring of our eleventh grade year. ⁓ we you know, but for a three week period that nobody ever discussed, Doug Whitaker was absent. And so we ⁓ as a class we're supposed to be reading nineteen eighty four and when he got back he's like okay everybody's done with nineteen eighty four he's like who here finished nineteen eighty four and I don't know was I in an age of where we told the truth only me and Renee de Sauer we were like we we did. And then he's like okay you know what we'll discuss it a little bit and then we're we're moving on to Animal Farm. And I'm like I read this I read the button I did the assignment Most of us were like But but Everybody everybody in that class fucking read Animal Farm because he's like, listen, this one and and then we did a like whole comparison thing where only Renee and I have really contributed to the conversation. But ⁓ but it like it I th I think it was the perfect chaser for it. You saw it like this and then you saw it like that. Yeah. Sean: So ⁓ I didn't know ⁓ more about Orwell that ⁓ I spent too much time probably on this list that he compiled ⁓ and sent. ⁓ so Just shortly before he died, he prepared a list of notable writers and other people he considered to be unsuitable as possible writers for the anti-communist propaganda activities of the information research department, which was a secret propaganda organization of the British state under the Foreign Office. But basically this list, which was ⁓ I don't know why, but he called it Cryptos and Fellow Travelers. But they were members of the Communist Party of Great Britain, agents and sentimental sympathizers. In-Person: Just shortly before he died, he prepared a list of notable writers and other people he considered to be unsuitable as possible writers for the anti-communist propaganda activities of the information research department, which was a secret propaganda organization of the British state under the Foreign Office. But basically, this list, which was I don't know why, but he called it cryptos and fellow travelers, but they were members of the Communist Party of Great Britain, agents and sentimental sympathizers. Yeah. Sean: Well, all of the people, so the reason I'm saying that is that one of the people that he listed, there were a lot of people on this list, but one of them was a person, a man named ⁓ Peter Smolette. ⁓ Peter was ⁓ born Hans Peter Smolke, Austrian-born man. ⁓ he came to Britain in 1933. And again was named ⁓ by ⁓ Orwell ⁓ as an NKVD agent codenamed ABO. ⁓ and so the reason I say that matters it mattered to me because this is like a crazy Hollywood story, but so ⁓ Orwell writes this book between November of 43 and February of 44. And the reason I'm saying those dates is the UK was in its wartime alliance with the Soviet Union against Nazi Germany. In-Person: ABO. ⁓ And so the reason I say that matters, it mattered to me because this is like a crazy Hollywood story. But so Orwell writes this book between November of 43 and February of 44. And the reason I'm saying those dates is the UK was in its wartime alliance with the Soviet Union against Nazi Germany. Sean: And British intelligent ⁓ intelligence at that time held Stalin in high esteem and hor Orwell hated it. ⁓ and so the manuscript was initially rejected by several British and American publishers, including one of Orwell's own publishers, ⁓ Victor Galanz. ⁓ so the publisher ⁓ In-Person: And British intelligent ⁓ intelligence at that time held Stalin in high esteem, and Orwell hated it. ⁓ and so the manuscript was initially rejected by several British and American publishers, including one of Orwell's own publishers, ⁓ Victor Galanz. ⁓ so the publisher, Jonathan Cape, who had initially accepted Animal Farm and they were going to publish it, ⁓ subsequently rejected the book after an official at the British Ministry of Intelligence. Sean: ⁓ Jonathan Cape, who had initially accepted Animal Farm and they were gonna publish it, ⁓ subsequently rejected the book after an official at the British Ministry of Information warned him off. That person who warmed him off was Peter Smollett. And Smollett had said, writing to Leonard Moore, who was a partner in the literary agency, ⁓ explained that the decision had been made taken on the advice of a senior official in the Ministry of Information. And it says, such flagrant anti-Soviet bias is unacceptable, and the choice of pigs as a dominant class is thought to be especially offensive. ⁓ and so In-Person: ⁓ and so smarter than you. ⁓ smarter than you are, dude. and so then Orwell ⁓ says if the fable were addressed generally to dictators and dictatorships at large, then publication would be alright. But the fable does follow, as I see now, so completely the progress of the Russian Soviets and their two dictators, Lenin and Stalin, that it can only apply to Russia, to the exclusion t of any other dictators. Duh. Sean: ⁓ smarter than you are dude. ⁓ and so then Orwell ⁓ says ⁓ if the fable were addressed generally to dictators and dictatorships at large, then publication would be all right. But the fable does follow, as I see now, so completely the progress of the Russian Soviets and their two dictators, Lenin and Stalin, that it can only apply to Russia, to the exclusion t of any other dictators. Duh In-Person: And then the last thing that he said ⁓ it would be less offensive if the predominant cast in the fable were not pigs. I think the choice of pigs as a ruling cast would no doubt give offense to many people, and particularly to anyone who's a bit touchy, as undoubtedly the Russians are. Sean: And then the last thing that he said, ⁓ it would be less offensive if the predominant cast in the fable were not pigs. I think the choice of pigs as a ruling cast would no doubt give offense to many people, and particularly to anyone who's a bit touchy, as undoubtedly the Russians are. In-Person: So I say pig and you see yourself? That's what he was saying in a very I thought in a very clever way. Yeah. Okay, number four, For Home the Bell Tolls. See yourself in the mirror? ⁓ For Home the Bell Tolls is a novel by Andre's favorite author, ⁓ Ernest Hemingway. This was published in nineteen forty. It tells the story of Robert Jordan, a young American volunteer attached to a Republican guerrilla unit during the Spanish Civil War. As a demolitions expert, he is assigned to blow up a bridge during the Segovia offensive. Sean: So I say pig and you see yourself? That's what he was saying in a very ⁓ I thought in a very clever way. Yeah. Okay, number four, For Home the Bell Tolls. For Home the Bell Tolls is a novel by Andrea's favorite author, ⁓ Ernest Hemingway. This was published in 1940. It tells the story of Robert Jordan, a young American volunteer attached to a Republican guerrilla unit during the Spanish Civil War. As a demolitions expert, he is assigned to blow up a bridge during the Segovia Offensive. That is thankfully Michelle. It's not the Avengers movie. Nice try. ⁓ In-Person: It's thankfully Michelle. It's not the Avengers movie. God damn it. I know. ⁓ I like I surprisingly didn't hate this one when I read it. I think it's less Hemingway than the the rest of the Hemingway's. If that makes sense. ⁓ but then as ⁓ as I'm thinking about this, ⁓ okay, so first of all, the title is from like maybe. One of my favorite poems of all time by John Dunn. But I w when I was looking at this just now, I was thinking like it's a little Private Ryan-esque, right? We have we have a singular objective, right? Well, he has Jordan has a singular objective. Yes. ⁓ recruits well, he doesn't recruit necessarily, but gets involved with a kind of a ragtag bunch of dudes to go execute the singular objective, including blowing up a bridge. A lot of were like, mm, I don't know about this. Mm. And then ⁓ and then, you know, also including becoming mortally wounded. So ⁓ but I do remember liking this when I read it and thought that it was like definitely because people I I liked that the ⁓ the gorilla leader dude gets overthrown by his wife because she's like fuck you we have a b greater good so go fuck yourself. Mm-hmm. ⁓ I yeah, I do ⁓ but I did learn and I did not even think about this but when I was researching this that the the the phrase feeling the earth moved, did you feel the earth moved? Yeah is from this book. Sean: I yeah, I do but I did learn and I did not even think about this, but when I was researching this, that the the the phrase feeling the earth move, did you feel the earth move? Yeah, is from this book. Because Maria and Robert have sex in a field and they're and she's laying in the dirt. Yeah. And when they're done, he says, Did you feel the earth move? And that is where that phrase comes from, is from this. In-Person: Because Maria and Robert have sex in a field and they're and she's laying in the dirt. Yeah. And when they're done, he says, Did you feel the earth move? And that is where that phrase comes from is from this book. I never knew where. ⁓ didn't either. ⁓ Until I read this. It's interesting. Okay. There's a lot of ⁓ lexicon. Yes, ideas I like a lot. Yeah. Andrew? ⁓ okay. So I'm just gonna read from a notes. Okay. Sean: Never knew where. ⁓ neither. Okay. Okay. Until I read this. It's interesting. Okay. There's a lot of ⁓ lexicon. Yes, it's like a lot. Yeah. Andrea? ⁓ okay, so I'm just gonna read from my notes. Okay. Ugh. In-Person: Ugh why is he still here? I prefer John Dunn's devotions upon emergent occasions. See? He was dying when he wrote that. It's such a beautiful book. He was dying. It's a beautiful book. For whom the bell tolls. It tolds for thee. ⁓ that's why we're best friends. Death's coming for all this. But ⁓ no. What Michelle said, this is the only Hemingway book that I read twice. Sean: It tolds for thee. ⁓ that's why we're best friends. That's comes up for all this. But ⁓ no what Michelle said, this is the only Hemingway book that I read twice. And it was I was like Because I didn't even feel like again, while it's a singular objective, that r this this protagonist is not a self In-Person: And it was I was like because I didn't even feel like ⁓ again, while it's a singular objective, that r this this protagonist is not a self He's not as much of a narcissistic. Yeah, as the rest of all the other Hemingway characters are. He's the least Yes. He's the most like a normal man. He's the least Hemingway of all the characters. Sean, what's the movie where the person's gonna I I can see it and I know it's a movie I've probably seen two hundred and twenty seven times, but the ⁓ where they're in a fight or a war or something and the guy's ⁓ it's a battle and they have to leave a guy, he's mortally wounded and he's got the grenade. And it he's he's got it done and when his ⁓ it's gonna blow it's gonna blow everybody up. And the like the first time that I saw it with you, I was like, but no I know the scene has done. He might not be dying. You're like, Andrea He's dying. I wanna say it's like a canister ⁓ grenade. Like not like an avocado grenade. I don't remember the movie. Yeah, and you know what, and and because because it always reminds me of the grenades to pull the streams from far away, and that's how Sean: Time that I saw it with you, I was like, but no. I know the scene, I just can't be dying. You're like Andrea. I can't remember the movie. I want to say it's like a canister ⁓ grenade, like not like a avocado. In-Person: Yeah, how the other dude dies is because he gets hit by shrapnel because they're too close to the fucking thing. And and it d ⁓ yeah, it's it is like it's the most where Hemingway was a writer, not a reporter. Yeah, I need to have a word with Steven Spielberg because also Jordan, while he's laying mortally wounded, is waiting to like take his last like he's just like I'll wait and and shoot at whatever enemies come before if I can stay conscious and not die first. Yeah. And at the end Private Ryan, Tom Hanks is just shooting Sean: shoot at whatever enemies come before if I can stay conscious and not die first. Yeah. And at the end of Private Riot, Tom Hanks is just shooting at the tank because he knows he's dying and he's just like, fuck it, I'm just gonna stay here and I couldn't yeah. Did Sean get really mad about Jeremy Davies again last night? Because yeah he he did he did at one time call him In-Person: At the tank because he knows he's dying and he's just like, fuck it, I'm just gonna stay here and I couldn't yeah. Did Sean get really mad about Jeremy Davies again last night? Because yeah. He he did he did at one time call him a pussy. Yeah. When we watched him I thought he was quite restrained. When he showed up and justified, Sean was like, Not you. I was like, Sean, that's how great an actor, Jeremy Davies, who does not get a lot of credit for how gre I fucking Sean: When we watched him I thought he was quite restrained. When he showed up in Justified, Sean was like, not you. I was like, Sean, that's how great an actor, Jeremy Davis, who does not get a lot of credit for how great. I fucking listen. I have listen, I maybe it's because I've never served in the military, but In-Person: Listen I have listen, I maybe it's because I've never served in the military, but Our the first time I saw that movie and including last night, I know this is off topic, but I just he's just a scared fucking nerd. He's a kid. He's a translator. He doesn't belong and he doesn't know what to do. He's so scared. So I have I have some sympathy for young Upham. I have except that he let that do that thing. Adam could do that one. Yeah, let anyway. It yes. So So a little bit about this book we're talking about. so this book was published just after the end of the Spanish Civil War. Sean: Don't know what to do. He's so scared. So I have I have some sympathy. I do too. For young Upham. I have except that he let that do that they had Adam. Yeah. So a little bit about this book we're talking about. so this book was published just after the end of the Spanish Civil War. ⁓ but the war had been covered in great detail in international media at the time, but I'm gonna argue I don't want to give Andrea more fuel for her hatred, but In-Person: ⁓ But the war had been covered in great detail in international media at the time. But I'm gonna argue, I don't want to give Andrea more fuel for her hatred, but I I feel like Hemingway assumed so much in this book that the audience knows that the war was between the leftist government and the Second Spanish Republic, that many foreigners went ⁓ to Spain to help out. ⁓ the nationalist faction, which was supported by Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy, like there's just a lot of stuff that I Sean: I I feel like Hemingway assumed so much in this book that that it the audience knows that the war was between the leftist government of the Second Spanish Republic, ⁓ that many foreigners went ⁓ to Spain to help out, ⁓ the nationalist faction, which was supported by Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy, like there's just a lot of stuff that I feel like was assumed y'all know this and because he was a narcissist. That's like the thing. He just he's like on the Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I would like to say that I hate In-Person: I feel like was assumed y'all know this and ⁓ right because he was a narcissist. That's like the thing. He just he's like, I'm yeah, yeah, that and I would like to say that I hate F. Scott Fitzgerald more than this guy is. ⁓ no, I don't. I'm the one that really not a big Hemingway. Yeah. ⁓ maybe I got I I I don't hate him like the you know, like the fiery passions of a thousand that I have sons. Yeah. In nineteen forty, ⁓ For Whom the Bell Tolls was declared non-mailable by the US Post Office. Sean: F. Scott Fitzgerald more than this guy. ⁓ no, I know. I'm the one that really is not a big Hemingway. ⁓ maybe I got my ⁓ Yes, okay. In in nineteen forty, For Whom the Bell Tolls was declared non-mailable by the US Post Office. ⁓ the book the ban was enacted due to the book's explicit sexual content and perceived pro-communist political themes. The novel dealt hev heavily with Marxism and the Spanish Civil War, like I said, ⁓ which made it highly controversial at the time. In-Person: ⁓ the book the ban was enacted due to the book's explicit sexual content and perceived pro-communist political themes. The novel dealt heavily with Marxism and the Spanish Civil War, like I said, ⁓ which made it highly controversial at the time. ⁓ the last thing I just found was in 1941, the Pulitzer Prize Committee for Letters unanimously recommended for whom the Bell Tolls to be awarded Pulitzer Prize for Novel of the Year. Sean: ⁓ the last thing I just found was in 1941, the Pulitzer Prize Committee for Letters unanimously recommended for Whom the Bell Tolls to be awarded Pulitzer Prize for novel of the year. The entire board agreed. However, Nicholas Murray Butler, president of Columbia University and ex officio head of the Pulitzer Board at the time, found the novel offensive and persuaded the board to res to reverse its determination. No Pulitzers were given for the category of novel that year. That's fucked up. ⁓ my God. What in the name of Imagine how mad. In-Person: The entire board agreed. However, Nicholas Murray Butler, president of Columbia University and ex-officio head of the Pulitzer Board at the time, found the novel offensive and persuaded the board to res to reverse its determination. No Pulitzers were given for the category of novel that year. That's Fucked up. ⁓ my god. What in the name of Imagine how mad you'd be in Washington. Imagine how mad you'd be. ⁓ I'd be so pissed. Gonna get the fucking Pulitzer. No you're not. Yeah. No you're not. Because I guarantee you, I guarantee okay, ninety-nine percent, because I don't know for sure. But it's the sex. It's always the fucking sex with these fucking white cisgender stick up their ass men that run these these committees in the world. But Sean: ⁓ I'd be so pissed. Yeah. Because I guarantee you, I guarantee, okay, 99%, because I don't know for sure. But it's the sex. It's always the fucking sex with these fucking white cisgender stick up their ass men that run these these committees and the world. But it is the sex. It's the s ⁓ my god. People fuck. The violence is okay, but just don't talk about sex. Like on the other side of the world. In-Person: It is the sex. It's the s ⁓ my god, people fuck. The violence is okay, but just talk about sex. Right. Like on the other side of the world, children are being dragged off and put in camps and their parents executed. But don't you dare have a penis in a vagina. Don't you dare talk about it. ⁓ okay, number five, Native Sun. ⁓ Native Sun is a nineteen forty novel written Sean: Children are being dragged off and put in camps and their parents executed. But don't you dare have a penis in a vagina. Don't you dare talk about it. ⁓ okay, number five, Native Sun. ⁓ Native Sun is a 1940 novel written by American author Richard Wright. This tells the story of a 20-year-old named Bigger Thomas, a black youth living in utter pro poverty in a poor ⁓ area on Chicago's South Side in the 1930s. I wonder if he knew Rick Riz. ⁓ South Side of Chicago, right? No? Thomas kills a white woman at a time when racism is at its peak and he pays the price for it. And that is Andrea. This story is ⁓ this I have not read. I knew of it, and that's why I did not read it. ⁓ I In-Person: This story is this I have not read. I knew of it, and that's why I did not read it. ⁓ I know of ⁓ Richard Wright's work. ⁓ he is a fascinating read. I mean, his his his life. this story is so heartbreaking and and I I could see I don't know how it was received at the time by quote unquote the whites. ⁓ I'm sure you don't wanna see you know, where your white savior complex can really fuck you up. And I mean the Dolan the Dolans? Is that their last name? The ones that that employ him and then he murders their daughter. Which is a very simple way of saying. I mean they're it's I actually don't have that, sorry. Yeah, because for some reason I was thinking they were Irish American. I don't is it Dolan? Dalton. Dalton, thank you. It is in my notes. ⁓ barely. But it ⁓ it's just sad. It's he's he's never going to get out of what he has. Sean: Is that their last name? The ones that that employ him and then he murders their daughter. Which is a very simple way of saying. I mean they're it I I actually don't have that, sorry. Yeah, because for some reason I was thinking they're Irish American. I don't is it Dolan? Dalton. Dalton, thank you. It is in my notes. but it ⁓ it's just sad. It's he's he's never going to get out of what he has. In-Person: what he doesn't have. Like he's never gonna break the cycle and he's so angry and he doesn't know why and he's afraid so he does th like it it's just the worst case of circumstances and bad luck and it it's just fucking yeah. Yeah. Sean: what he doesn't have. Like he's never gonna break the cycle and he's so angry and he doesn't know why and he's afraid so he does th like it it's just the worst case of circumstances and bad luck and i it's just fucking yeah. Yeah. Michelle? In-Person: So I also have not read this, but I knew of it and and and just from what I knew of it, I thought, okay, this is gonna be like in book form, a thing that I just always say, which is you can tell people that they can pull themselves up by their fucking bootstraps, but that's impossible if they don't have fucking boots. Yeah. Right? So I knew I knew the premise of this, which which basically like, you know soup to nuts is this kid is a product of his environment. He's been shaped by circumstance and he's impoverished and so he's only gonna end up what he was always supposed to end up being, right? Which is fucking sad when you lay it out that way. Right? He has it it wouldn't matter what choices he made, he was just always gonna end up in a circumstance, maybe not this one exactly, but in a circumstance similar to this. Then as I was doing research for this, I came across the James Baldwin school of this is some bullshit. Yeah. This this is like and he was highly critical. Yeah. Of James Baldwin was ⁓ James crit yeah, James Baldwin was highly critical of Wright's writing and the fact that this was very much like so you're basically telling our people that They're fucked no matter what. And James Baldwin was also like very big on like we we are systematically fucked, but we we have agency. So and I'm But we should try to find those boots. Not too Yeah. Yeah, so ⁓ it's so hard to be ⁓ empathetic for this kid, honestly, even though you know ⁓ like he accidentally kills Mary. Yeah. Right? He kill so black kid, south side of Chicago. He's basically financially responsible for his family. He hates that. He does not want to be that. He ends up getting a job. Sean: ⁓ like he accidentally kills Mary. Yeah. Right? He kills so black kid south side of Chicago. He's basically financially responsible for his family. He hates that. He does not want to be that. He ends up getting a job, ⁓ with a wealthy white family. ⁓ the daughter is attractive, but she's also ⁓ not our In-Person: ⁓ with a wealthy white family. ⁓ the daughter is attractive, but she's also ⁓ not a communist communist, and her boyfriend is a communist organizer, and under the guise of him driving her around to go to like college shit, takes them to dinner, meets them. The the other whites in the communist thing kind of treat him, you know, like they invite him to come have dinner, blah blah blah. She gets drunk, he gets her home, carries her. To her room. While she's drunk, he cannot resist. He kisses her, puts her in her bed. Her blind mother comes into the room. He's like, ⁓ shit, I'm gonna get discovered in here. A black man in the womb, you know, I'm in trouble. So he puts a pillow over Mary's face to keep her quiet so that her blind mother will not think that there's anyone else in there. ⁓ and he smothers her to death. Sean: Think that there's anyone else in there, and he smothers her to death. ⁓ it's not great. That's an accident. It's not a great choice. It's not gonna turn out well for him because he's a poor black kid who works in a wealthy white house. So no matter they're gonna, you know, probably they're gonna accuse him of raping her first, but then he makes a poor, poor decision. In-Person: ⁓ it's not great. That's an accident. It's not gonna turn it's not gonna turn out well for him because he's a poor black kid who works in a wealthy white house. So no matter they're gonna, you know, probably they're gonna accuse him of raping her first, but then he makes a poor, poor decision. To burn her body in the in the furnace, and then decides he needs there's more to this. But then he also rapes and murders his actual girlfriend later in the book for like it's so hard to be empathetic for this character. I don't erg. Anyway. ⁓ and then he gets a lawyer. A white Jewish lawyer who argues. It's Mary's boyfriend who secures him the lawyer. Who maybe that was white guilt, I don't know. You can frame it any way you want. I I appreciate that when people read or hear things that they you know, some things are left to your interpretation. But White Jewish lawyer comes in and argues, not that he didn't do it, but that he was he was supposed to do it. He had no he was he was going to do something, it was just this. And nobody gives a shit about ⁓ his girlfriend's murder or rape. They only care about the white lady. So only it it seems that if he's accused of raping her before he murdered her, married the white girl, that's worse than him actually raping and murdering on purpose his act. Actual girl who is black. Yeah, it's a rough one. It's a rough one. I'm I'm glad I didn't read it. It was it was on one of Whitaker's reading lists, and I don't think anybody in the class chose it, not knowing. Yeah, I was telling I was well, this is off topic, but I was telling Chris that we had required and then there was a list we could choose from. I would not I I mean, if I had chosen this and not known and then started reading, I would have been like Yeah. No thank you. Especially something like yeah. Sean: No only it it seems that if he's accused of raping her before he murdered her, Mary, the white girl, that's worse than him actually raping and murdering on purpose his actual girl who is black. Yeah, it's a rough one. It's a rough one. I'm I'm glad I didn't read I remember it being on it across a room. It was it was on In-Person: Anyway, ⁓ Sean? I would say critical analysis of this book ⁓ says that Wright ⁓ walks the razor's edge here of not ever apologizing for Biggers crimes. Sean: one of Whitaker's reading lists and I don't think anybody in the class chose it, not knowing. Yeah, I was telling I was well, this is off topic, but I was telling Chris that we had required and then there was a list we could choose from. I would not I I mean if I had chosen this and not known and then started reading, then that would be like Yeah. No thank you. Especially something like yeah. Anyway. ⁓ Sean? I would say cr Critical analysis of this book ⁓ says that write walks the razor's edge here of not ever apologizing for Biggers crimes, but also able to portray or or portray a systemic causation behind the crimes, which is a bit of a tightwire highwire act, I think. But y'all brought up Boris Max, ⁓ the Boris Max makes the case that there is no escape from this destiny for his client or any other black American, since they are the necessary product of the society that formed them and told them since birth who exactly they were supposed to be. That's the qu the quote from this. To Andrea, your question about it was a while back, but was did this sell well? ⁓ you could say that. ⁓ it sold 250,000 hardcover copies within the first three weeks of. In-Person: To Andrea, your question about it was a while back, but was did this sell well? ⁓ you could say that. ⁓ it sold 250,000 hardcover copies within the first three weeks of publication. ⁓ so this was one of the earliest successful attempts to explain the racial divide in America in terms of the social conditions imposed on African Americans by the dominant white society. It also made Wright the wealthiest black writer of this time. Sean: Publication. ⁓ so this was one of the earliest successful attempts to explain the racial divide in America in terms of the social conditions imposed on African Americans by the dominant white society. It also made Wright the wealthiest black writer of this time and earned him the name, ⁓ nickname Father of Black American Literature. So it was successful, which is surprising, but is ⁓ I say this because I think leaning towards Andrew's point a little bit. it's selling that many now knowing like those numbers, it's selling that many copies in a short period of time sort of does lean towards the the white savior aspect of this book, right? That and again, I don't know. But if if you In-Person: And earned him the name, ⁓ nicknamed Father of Black American Literature. So it was successful, which is surprising, but ⁓ I is is it? And I and I say this, I say this because I think leaning towards Andre's point a little bit, ⁓ it's selling that many, now knowing like those numbers, it's selling that many copies in a short period of time sort of does lean towards the the white savior aspect of this book, right? That and again, I don't know. But if if you were a ⁓ a white person of this time period and you're reading this and you're like, and what you took from it was, holy shit, like well, I think which was what right intended. Sean: of this time period and you're reading this and you're like and what you took from it was holy shit like well I think which was what right intended In-Person: This kid had he was always gonna end up right where he is. He'd have done something because he's a product of his environment. He could not it could not be helped. And then the w the lawyer comes in at the end and then lays that out explicitly for you. You, as the white reader, perhaps again, you could walk away from this like Sean: This kid had, he was always gonna end up right where he is. He'd have done something because he's a product of his environment. He could not be it could not be helped. And then the the lawyer comes in at the end and then lays that out explicitly for you. You, as the white reader, perhaps, again, you could walk away from this like In-Person: He he tried. He tr he he made at least the argument for why this poor kid did what he did. And I could see why both white folks would have bought this and read it and maybe came out that way and why black folks would have bought this and read it and been like Either way, they'd have bought it. But I don't yeah, I don't know if Yeah. Sean: he he tried. He tr he he made at least the argument for why this poor kid did what he did. And I could see why both white folks would have bought this and read it and maybe came out that way and why black folks would have bought this and read it and been like either way, they'd a bought it but I don't yeah, I don't know if yeah. In-Person: I don't know. I'm gonna That's a hard one. I don't it's a thinker. I'm gonna be f yeah, I'm ⁓ I was just James Baldwin's Notes of a Native Son. I need to get that and read it based off this because he does the stuff I read from it and critiques are c they're qu That's always sad. That's always, always not as like some kind of but I mean as a white person looking at a renowned ⁓ black author, activist, reader, thinker, right, critiquing another black artist, writer, you know, like it's it it's interesting, I'll say that. It's definitely it's thought provoking. Sean: ⁓ black author, activist, reader, thinker, right, critiquing another black artist, writer, you know, like it's it it's interesting, I'll say that. It's definitely it's thought provoking. Okay. Number six. This is this name. Okay. Brides Brideshead revisited The Sacred and Profane Memories of Captain Charles Ryder. This is a novel by the English writer Evelyn Waugh, first published in 1945. It follows from the 1920s to the early 40s. The life and romances of Charles Ryder, especially his friendship with the Flights, a family of wealthy English Catholics who live in a palatial mansion called Brideshead Castle. ⁓ Ryder's relationships with two of the flights, Lord Sebastian and Lady Julia. The novel explorers. Themes including Catholicism and Nostalgia for the age of English aristocracy. Sounds great. ⁓ Michelle. Right? It's ⁓ got a thousand parts and and eleven. Yeah. But after researching it, I was like, ⁓ I'd have never read this anyway because In-Person: ⁓ Michelle. ⁓ I have not read this. I did not, you know, I I know this because I was like, ⁓ this is some BBC bullshit. Right? It's got a thousand parts and and it's eleven. Yeah. ⁓ but after researching and I was like, ⁓ I'd have never read this anyway, because it it's all the things that I personally, and that's making for the podcast, do not like about organized religion. Particularly speak Sean: It it's all the things that I personally, and that's weaken for the podcast, do not like about organized religion, particularly Catholics, and it is this. You have all these rules to follow, and yet a lot of people break all those rules their entire lives, and then on their deathbed, they say, ⁓ fuck, I fucked up. In-Person: Catholics, and it is this. You have all these rules to follow, and yet a lot of people break all those rules their entire lives, and then on their deathbed, they say, ⁓ fuck, I fucked up. Sorry, and then all is well. So the the tenets of living a good life, of being a good person, you can fuck all that the whole time and then still get your reward. I don't buy it. I don't like it. So I would not. I would no. No, thank you. Pass. You can talk to Andrea about this. My note for this is advertisement for Catholicism. This is the one I was referring to. It's there ⁓ in my opinion and I n I listen, i if we even have enough people that listen or watch this to piss off, great. I don't care I'm about to. It's called We Regret Nothing. ⁓ in that ran I forgot what I was gonna say. No, there's nothing worse there's no worse Catholic than a brand new Catholic. Sean: My note for this is advertisement for Catholicism. This is the one I was referring to. I figured. ⁓ in my opinion, and I I listen, i if we even have enough people that listen or watch this to piss off, great. I don't care what I'm about to. It's called We Regret Nothing. ⁓ in that run I forgot what I was gonna say. No, there's nothing worse there's no worse Catholic than a brand new Catholic. In-Person: That's a and Evelyn Mois had converted ⁓ or a lapsed Catholic as the the patriarch of this family at the end totally shitty person but shows back at him is like I got last rats and I'm going to heaven fuck y'all and then p this is this is horrible. Now the BBC version as I recall I I found some of it interesting. My mom was watching it. You know, I was at the nineteen eighty one version? Yes. Okay. I'm sure it was beautiful to look at. Yeah. Very English. ⁓ very yeah. Very but very taun. but very what? Tan. What is that? The tawn are ⁓ the upper aristocracy in England. I'm glad I didn't know that. ⁓ Sean: As I recall, I I found some of it interesting. My mom was watching it. You know, I was I'm sorry, is that the nineteen eighty one version? Okay. I'm sure it was beautiful to look at. Yeah. Very English. ⁓ very yeah, very but very ton. but very what? Tan. What is that? The tawn are ⁓ the upper aristocracy in England. I'm glad I didn't know that. ⁓ In-Person: And some people say ten, I say ton. So just so I mean I either wanna don't know the word. ⁓ say it however you want. But ⁓ this is boring as fuck. It it really is. And there's there's nothing worse to me I think I already said there was something else, nothing worse before. ⁓ yeah, an apathetic character. Second after an apathetic character, a dry fuck. I mean, this this book is ⁓ there's supposed to be sexual tension, and I just keep picturing Prince Charles in bed with someone. Like it's so boring. It's so why did you have to do that to me now? What the hell? It's i incredibly and I do like a good saga. Don't get me wrong, but ⁓ This ain't it. It's dry. It's dry and Catholic. so the nineteen eighty one version that you referenced, I believe this is right, ⁓ the one. Sean: It's dry and Catholic. so the nineteen eighty one version that you referenced, I believe this is right, ⁓ the one, but ⁓ was a eleven episode T V serial starring Jeremy Irons as Charles Ryder and Anthony Andrews as Lord Sebastian Flight. ⁓ In-Person: But it was a 11-episode TV serial starring Jeremy Irons as Charles Ryder and Anthony Andrews as Lord Sebastian Flight. ⁓ then, I'll skip over that one. We don't but in 2008, BBC Audiobooks released an unabridged reading of the book by Jeremy Irons. ⁓ he seemed to like this content. ⁓ he was hot in it. I mean he made it like there was no dry there, but I mean it was like But then there's an abridged audiobook version ⁓ Sean: Then, I'll skip over that one. We don't but in two thousand eight, BBC Audiobooks released an unabridged reading of the book by Jeremy Irons. ⁓ he seemed to like this content. ⁓ he was hot in it. I mean he made it like there was no dry there, but I mean it was like But then there's an abridged audiobook version ⁓ In-Person: the same two thousand eight BBC audiobooks, but read by Sir John Gilgood, which is available on YouTube if you wanna Sean: the same two thousand eight BBC audiobooks, but read by Sir John Gilgood, which is available on YouTube if you want to ⁓ check that one out. But I just thought this ⁓ in two thousand twenty, ⁓ it was announced that the novel would be adapted again for HBO. Andrew Garfield is set to play Charles Ryder while Joe Alwyn will play Sebastian Flight. What about what about me? You put stuff in for Michelle, I put that in for you. ⁓ In-Person: ⁓ check that one out. But I just thought this ⁓ in two thousand twenty, ⁓ it was announced that the novel would be adapted again for HBO. Yeah. Andrew Garfield is said to play Charles Ryder, while Joe Alwyn will play Sebastian Flight. Talk about me. You put stuff in for Michelle, I put that in for you. Talk about a dry fuck right there. so they not Andrew, not Andrew, everybody. ⁓ Sebastian's sister Julia would be played by Rudy. Sean: ⁓ so then everybody ⁓ Sebastian's sister Julia would be played by Rooney Mara. ⁓ Ray Fines will play Lord Marchmane. Well, Kate Blanchette. I just want you to think all of those people. Now ⁓ bad news. It ain't getting made. No. ⁓ because that was six years ago, and they have said it it this isn't gonna happen. But that cast, I was gonna say I might watch this. Maybe. Maybe probably not. In-Person: Fines will play Lord Marchmain. Well, Kate Blanchett. I just want you to think all of those people. Maybe I would watch this. Okay. I would bad news. I'd take it. Because that was six years ago and they have said it it this isn't gonna happen. But that cast, I'm I was gonna say I might watch this. Maybe. Yeah. Probably not. I'll just throw things at Joe the whole time. I'm only gonna watch it for Joe Alwyn. You know, go to hell. number seven is 1984, our second George Orwell book. So this story takes place in a fictional future. Few ⁓ years believed to be 1984, but this is uncertain. Much of the world is in perpetual war. Great Britain, now known as Airstrip One, has become a province of the totalit see what I mean? Totalitarian. No, okay, but it's three words. A province of the totalitarian superior. Sean: Throw things at Joe the whole time. I'm only gonna watch it for Joe Alwyn. ⁓ is 1984, our second George Orwell book. So this story takes place in a fictional future. The year is believed to be 1984, but this is uncertain. Much of the world is in perpetual war. Great Britain, now known as Airstrip One, has become a province of the totality. See what I mean? Total No, okay, but it's three words. ⁓ the a province of the totalitarian superstitious. State Oceania. Sean, you dumb. Which is led by Big Brother, ⁓ Dick. Dictorial leader supported by an intense cult of personality manufactured by the party's thought police. Party engages in omnipresent government surveillance and through the Ministry of Truth, the practice of historical revisionism and constant propaganda to persecute individuality and independent thinking. So the Trump White House. That's Andrea. That that's my opening shot. Okay. This is the Trump White House. This is why more of you should have paid attention to fucking 1984. People don't read ⁓ In-Person: Dictorial leader supported by an intense cult of personality manufactured by the party's thought police. Party engages in omnipresent government surveillance and through the Ministry of Truth, the practice of historical revisionism and constant propaganda to persecute individuality and independent thinking. So the Trump White House. That's Andrea. That that's my opening that's my opening shot. Okay. This is the Trump White House. This is why more of you should have paid attention to fucking nineteen eighty-four. People don't read Sean: Mr. Whitaker's class, shout out again to Renee Desollier for like I said, the only two. ⁓ and I had already read this when I was younger. This was actually an assigned book from my mother the summer I was going into seventh grade. I don't know why. again, I was an odd child. But this this is the number one if you said the word d In-Person: Whitaker's class. Shout out again to Renee Desollier for for like I said, the only two. ⁓ and I had already read this ⁓ when I was younger. This was actually an assigned book from my mother the summer I was going into seventh grade. I don't know why. ⁓ again, I was an odd child. But ⁓ this this is the number one if you said the word d bleak Sean: bleak story. I'd be like 1984. And then the movie. I don't know if you ever saw the movie of John Hurt. I didn't. ⁓ R.I.P. Mr. Olivante. It's on our complex. It's not it's in our library, but I've never seen it. It is gray. And it is ⁓ it is rough. And Whitaker showed that ⁓ film. And there's some rough parts in it, as is the the book. In-Person: story. I'd be like, nineteen eighty four. And then the movie. I don't know if you ever saw the movie with John Hurt. I didn't. ⁓ R.I.P. Mr. Olivander. It's on our complex. It's it's in our library without scene. It is grey. And it is d ⁓ it is rough. And Whitaker showed that ⁓ film. And there's some rough parts in it, as is the the book. ⁓ This is it's scary. The thought police, you know, what what the party tells you you saw with your own eyes and heard with your own ears isn't true. And I think we know that. Like we see now, you know, in the murder of Renee Good, ⁓ things like this, you know, she was ramming through and try no, like you saw it on fucking TV. It was filmed in real time, and then there is a political party telling you that's not what happened. It's scary, and when I read this book. ⁓ shit, I literally did read this in nineteen eighty four. That must have been why she assigned it to me. But ⁓ I was like, well thank god that's never gonna happen. It's George was a dark motherfucker, but he knew what was going on and he tried to help us. He really did. All while dying of the consumption. The consumption. Well he didn't. He had it though. Should've gone dead. Sean: ⁓ shit, I literally did read this in 1984. That must have been why she assigned it to me. But ⁓ I was like, well thank god that's never gonna happen. It's George was a dark motherfucker, but he knew what was going on and he tried to help us. He really did. All while dying of the consumption. The consumption. Well I didn't. Should go to Michelle Colorado. ⁓ I again this is kind of a almost a ten out of ten for me. It's just so like I don't know. It's it's it is penultimately bleak. In-Person: Michelle. Colorado. I again this is kind of a almost a ten out of ten for me. It's just so like I don't know. It's it's it is penultimately Blake. But w it's chilling and accurate and prophetic and it's it's scary to think about, right? Like when I read it then, you know, as a high school student, I was like, This fucked up. Mm-hmm. But nowhere in my brain right. And y I and I think you're you know, you're supposed to think like, Okay, but this is, you know, Nazi occupation, the way the, you know, propaganda was used, that kind of thing. So you're s you know, right. But for us it hadn't Sean: But w it's so chilling and accurate and prophetic and it's it's scary to think about, right? Like when I read it then, you know, as a high school student, I was like, this fucked up. Mm-hmm. But nowhere in my brain. Right. And I and I think you're, you know, you're supposed to think like, okay, this is, you know, Nazi occupation, the way the, you know, propaganda was used, that kind of thing. So you're s you know, right. But for us, it hadn't In-Person: We were separated from that, right? We're a generation apart from it. We write so it you know, so when you thought about it, you were like, ⁓ this is fucking scary and terrible, but whatever. And now we live here. Right? We there's I mean, it people are disappeared, right? They're you're there's we live in a full surveillance state, and part of that is our fucking fault, right? We no one on earth that you know that has one of these is not being surveilled. somehow. yeah, I'm not trying to be all like conspiracy ass about it, but this is fucking scary, right? And ⁓ it just it's it's it's wild to me to think about how accurate he was about all of this. Did you read this Sean? ⁓ I'm sorry. ⁓ go no sorry Michelle didn't tell you. I don't know. I don't know. You told me earlier I read Animal Form, I'll Sean: Did you read this show? ⁓ I'm sorry. ⁓ go no sorry Michelle. Couldn't tell ya. I don't know. I don't know. You told me earlier I read Animal Farm. I don't I would have told you I've never read it, so I don't know. Again with the lexicon stuff, right? So much stuff came out of this, right? That we use all the time. Right. Yeah. Thought police. Yeah. Room one ⁓ one. In-Person: I would have told you I've never read it so And also th again with the lexicon stuff, right? So much stuff came out of this, right? That that we use all the time, right? Yeah. Thought police. Yeah. Room one ⁓ one. Yeah, lot of big ones, right? Big brother, certainly. That's the biggest one, probably. No, yeah, not the CBS show everybody. I was thinking of the show. No, Sean. Okay. No, but you do this together. That is why it's called Big Brother. I need no, I really need you to go do this in another room. Number eight. Well, here's the news. I'm done doing this. You are? Yeah. Either hosting or is it because the French? Well is it Antoine? Let's talk about number eight and Sean's notes. I've been waiting. I've been waiting. Also lots of Sean: Yeah, Big Brother. Big Brother, certainly. That's the biggest one, probably. Yeah, not the CPS show. ⁓ I was thinking of the the show. No. ⁓ okay. No, when you do this in my other room. That is why it's called Big Brother, though. I know. I need no, I really need you to go do this in another room. Number eight. Well, here's the news. I'm done doing this. You are? Yeah. Either hosting or Is it because of the French? Well is it M2 Let's talk about number eight and Sean's notes. I've been waiting. I've been waiting. In-Person: Music shit on on ⁓ 1984. No what helped Yeah, lots of music. Lots of music in your music. Yeah, yeah, I imagine. ⁓ number eight. The Little Prince. The Little Prince is a novella written and illustrated by guess what? French writer. And aviator. Let's give it a try. Sean, you can do it, buddy. Antoine de Fuck you. Sean: The what now? Yeah, lots of music. Lots of music. Yeah, yeah, I imagine. ⁓ number eight, The Little Prince. The Little Prince is a novella written and illustrated by guess what? French writer. And aviator. Let's give it a try. Sean, you can do it, buddy. ⁓ Antoine de ⁓ du saint son I hate this I hate every second of this Antoine Du San Exupere. De juper. There we go. Fuck off everybody. Antoine Du The one listener and both of you on the couch? Yes. In-Person: ⁓ do Saint Son. I hate this. I hate every second of this. Antoine du San Exupere. De jupere. There we go. Fuck off everybody. Antoine Du San. The one listener and both of you on the couch in just a satchel of riches. ⁓ no. The story follows a young prince who visits various planets including Earth and addresses themes of loneliness, friendship, love, and loss. Despite its style as a children's book. Sean: in just a satchel of Richards. The story follows a young prince who visits various planets, including Earth, and addresses themes of loneliness, friendship, love and loss. Despite its style as a children's book, the little prince makes observ ⁓ observations about life, adults and human nature. In-Person: The little prince makes observate ⁓ observations about life, adults, and human nature. Sean: Shell. In-Person: Shell. Le petit le petit prend. I was waiting for that. I was waiting for her to say that. I quit. When you're done with this, y'all just pick stop on the spot and here. Right there. I did not I did not read this. ⁓ I I don't even think this was on my radar until well into adulthood. ⁓ but I do like that ⁓ that Sean: No I was waiting for that. I was waiting for her to say that. I quit. When you're done with this, y'all just hit stop on this button here. Yeah, just hit stop. I did not read this. ⁓ I I don't In-Person: that this this this person, the the the narrator, right, ⁓ as an adult had had a litmus test for whimsy. Right. He took his little picture I do like that. Right? He took his little picture that he had drawn of a boa constrictor eating an elephant. And when adults saw it, they were like, that's a hat and he was like, nah, it's not though. And then he would show it to other adults later and and if they would get it, that would be kind of his like, do you still feel do you have childlike qualities? And no one no one got it until he wrecks his plane in the Sahara and meets the little prince. Who then says, ⁓ that's clearly an elephant inside of a boa constrictor. I think that this is just kind of the you know, like a a fable, a parable for the way the world is, but the way the world could be. If you had some whimsy. Mm-hmm. ⁓ I love that. Again, I didn't read it, but I I never it does seem like a long journey to get there. Yes. But but yes. Sean: Like, no, it's not though. And then he would show it to other adults later, and and if they would get it, that would be kind of his like, do you still feel do you have childlike qualities? And no one no one got it until he wrecks his plane in the Sahara and meets the little prince who then says, ⁓ that's clearly an elephant inside of a boa constrictor. In-Person: That's what that's that's how I would think. I love that. That's beautiful. And Andrew you said you don't have anything. I don't really have anything. Okay. Did you read this? No, I did not. Yeah, I didn't even I d I had no real Sean: And Andrew, you said you don't have anything? I don't really have anything. Okay. Did you read this? No, I did not. Yeah, I didn't In-Person: Yeah, recollection of this. I we had it. ⁓ and I s I remember opening it and being like, ⁓ no, this isn't what I thought it was gonna be and then just put it back and then probably went and read Stephen King. So Okay. ⁓ so like I said, this guy Alex just call him Alex. Shh Call him what? Alex What does that mean? Sean: We had it, ⁓ and I s I remember opening it and being like, ⁓ no, this isn't what I thought it was gonna be, and then just put it back and then probably went and read Stephen King. So Okay. ⁓ so like I said, this guy Alex, just call him Alex. Shh. Call him what? Alex. What does that mean? What's Alex? Hey, you can say Antoine. In-Person: What's LA? You can say Antoine. I'm afraid I'm gonna say that long. No. Well if you say Antony then Antonio here. ⁓ no, I don't wanna be disrespectful to him because he was a he was an aviator, a French aviator, who flew I mean, World War Two, ⁓ even before like he was a French ⁓ Sean: I'm afraid I'm gonna say that long. No, but you say Antony Antonio here. ⁓ no, I don't wanna be disrespectful to him because he was a he was an aviator, a French aviator, who flew I mean, World War Two, ⁓ even before like he was a French I I'm not saying hero, but I mean he served the French military. I think it's Franch. And ⁓ Franch dressing. ⁓ In-Person: I I'm not saying hero, but I mean he served the French military. I think it's Franche. Franche, right? Franche. And ⁓ Franche dressing. And Peru. So he after he ⁓ leaves the service, he starts his writing career. and he continued to write up until the spring of 43 when he left ⁓ the US with American troops bound for North Africa in the Second World War. Sean: So he after he ⁓ leaves the service, he starts his writing career. and he continued to write up until the spring of 43 when he left ⁓ the US with American troops bound for North Africa in the Second World War. You heard that right. ⁓ and so but ⁓ so following the German invasion of France in 1940, he flew a block MB-174. ⁓ I g I mean there's probably too much history for me to go too ⁓ we've already gone a little bit long, but he had a a very ⁓ distinguished military career as a pilot. And ⁓ and then he the little prince comes out and it's banned in France. ⁓ What? It's released in the US in forty three. ⁓ it's banned because they're it's Nazi occupied France? Yes. And ⁓ In-Person: And ⁓ and then he the little prince comes out and ⁓ it's banned in France. ⁓ What? That's released in the US in 43. ⁓ it's banned because they're it's Nazi occupied France? Yes. And send Brad a Pitt over there. ⁓ that's a bingo. Later, posthumously, ⁓ Sean: Later, posthumously, ⁓ came out in France after the liberation of France. Did he die in the war? ⁓ his so he must say he was shot down. I will throw something at you. In-Person: came out in France after the liberation of France. Did he die in the war? ⁓ his so he better not say he was shot down. I will throw something at you. Sean: I'll just say this. ⁓ July 31st, 1944, took off in an unarmed P-38 on his ninth recon mission. ⁓ to, and to the great alarm of his squadron and compatriots, he did not return, vanishing without a trace. Word of his disappearance soon spread across the literary world, and then it spread into international headlines. ⁓ in September of 1998, a fisherman found a silver identity bracelet bearing the name ⁓ of In-Person: I'll just say this. July 31st, 1944, he took off in an unarmed P-38 on his ninth recon mission. ⁓ to and to the great alarm of his squadron and compatriots, he did not return, vanishing without a trace. Word of his disappearance soon spread across the literary world, and then it spread into international headlines. ⁓ in September of 1998, a fisherman found a silver identity bracelet bearing the name of Antoine. Antoine Dusan. Very ⁓ and ⁓ Sean: Antoine Duson de Cherie. and ⁓ the bracelet was hooked to a piece of fabric which they've determined was from his flight suit. I've never heard In-Person: The bracelet was hooked to a piece of fabric which they've determined was from his flight suit. I've never heard this. Announcement of the discovery was an emotional event in France where he was a national icon still, ⁓ even though some have disputed its authenticity because it was found far from his intended flight path, implying that the aircraft might not have that might not have been shot down. But they believe that that he was shot down and disappeared. They've never found the wreckage. They've only found that Sean: Announcement of the discovery was an emotional event in France where he was a national icon still, ⁓ even though some have disputed its authenticity because it was found far from his intended flight path, implying that the aircraft might not have that might not have been shot down. But they believe that ⁓ that he was shot down and disappeared. They've never found the wreckage, they've only found that bracelet and In-Person: Bracelet and the piece of fabric. Isn't it funny? Okay, and I use funny in the the like non funny sense of the Yeah. Sean: Isn't it funny? Okay, and I use funny in the the like non funny sense of the Yeah. In-Person: But that all the things we can do in this world and we still can't find things like that, like, you know, Amelia Earhart or the vastness of the ocean. Yeah, I mean I'm not that's what th I'm don't even get me started on the ocean that you know that freaks me out. But he disappeared room 101. It is one of my room 1001. He disappeared and most likely passed at age forty-four. Jesus. Yeah. So anyway. I I found him, even though I can't say his name and I apologize, but I found him to be a fascinating story. He's really interesting. Sean: But that all the things we can do in this world and we still can't find things like that, like, you know, a million heart over the vastness of the ocean is what I'm Yeah, I mean I'm not that's what don't even get me started on the ocean that you know that freaks me out. But he disappeared and is one of my rumors. He disappeared and most likely passed at age forty-four. Jesus. Yeah. So anyway, I I found him, even though I can't say his name and I apologize, but I found him to be a fascinating story. He's really interesting. He did a lot of the Saint, honey. ⁓ number nine way your guy the Saint in the movie The Saint uses that name. ⁓ really? Mm hmm. In-Person: Just call him the Saint, honey. ⁓ because by the way, your guy the Saint in the movie The Saint uses that name. ⁓ really? Mm-hmm. Val could pronounce it. Damn it. Okay. Number nine, Cry the Beloved Country. ⁓ this is a seminal 1948 novel by Alan Patton that serves as a powerful critique of racial injustice in South Africa, ⁓ set just before the formal establishment of apartheid. Follows Stephen ⁓ Kumalo, a Zulu pastor, as travels from his rural village to Johannesburg to find his son, ⁓ Absalom. ⁓ Sean: Damn it. Okay. Number nine, Cry the Beloved Country. ⁓ this is a seminal 1948 novel by Alan Patton that serves as a powerful critique of racial injustice in South Africa, set just before the formal establishment of apartheid. Folllows Stephen ⁓ Kumalo, a Zulu pastor, as he travels from his rural village to Johannesburg to find his son, Absalom, only to discover his son is accused of murder, a crime that tragically connects him to. In-Person: Only to discover his son is accused of murder, a crime that tragically connects him to a white family, leading to a profound exploration of suffering, forgiveness, and rec reconciliation between two fathers. And that is Andrew. Sean: A white family, leading to a profound exploration of suffering, forgiveness, and rec reconciliation between two fathers. And that is Andrea. I have not read this. I I knew of it, but I I never read it, but I did see both versions. Like I said, ⁓ the one that always sticks with me more is the ⁓ Sir Richard Harris James Earl Jones one. 1995. Yeah. And it I mean In-Person: ⁓ I have not read this. I I knew of it, but I I never read it, but I did see both versions. Like I said, ⁓ the one that always sticks with me more is the ⁓ Sir Richard Harris ⁓ James Earl Jones one. Yeah. And it I mean it's such it's such a good story. ⁓ it I am going to go back and read the book. ⁓ Sean: It's such it's such a good story. it I am going to go back and read the book, but just with apartheid and how I mean apartheid was a horrible fucking thing. I'm still I'm laughing because I'm like, I still can't believe that was a fucking thing, which people are trying to bring back. In-Person: But just with apartheid and how I mean apartheid was a horrible fucking thing. I'm still I'm laughing because I'm like, I still can't believe that was a fucking thing which people are trying to bring back. ⁓ just the the tale of South Africa and the ⁓ the the two fathers and there's a lot of biblical allegory ⁓ Sean: Just the the tale of South Africa and the the the two fathers and there's a lot of biblical allegory I I feel I can't fully comment on the book because I do just know the movie version, which obviously, you know, things get changed, but I am going to go back and and read this. In-Person: y I I feel I can't fully comment on the book because I do just know the movie version, which obviously, you know, things get changed, but I am going to go back and and read this. Sean: Michelle. I did read this. This was on this was another Doug Whitaker, but this was on the choose it list and I chose it. I don't know why. Like I don't like I think well, first of all, this is not a particularly long book, so that's probably why. No I probably was like You did the Brian Wells School of Yeah, fuck yeah. Let's do this one. but I I quite enjoyed this book. In-Person: Sure. I did read this. This was on this was another Doug Whitaker, but this was on the choose it list and I chose it. I don't know why. Like I don't like I think well, first of all, this is not a particularly long book, so that's probably why. I probably was like You did the Brian Wells School of Two Pen? Yeah, fuck yeah. Let's do this one. But I I quite enjoyed this book and here's like and I know like you mentioned there is a lot of religious allegory in this. That like one of the main characters is a you know David Son. Yeah. ⁓ it is It's it's simply told as the tale really of like just grief and regret and like these two fathers who bond who ultimately both end up with dead sons. Yeah. Right? And how and and there I mean, you could argue there's a little white saviorism in this one too, but given that the setting is just pre apartheid, ⁓ it doesn't feel that way. It does feel like actual South Africans, you know, yes. Sean: And here's like and I know like you mentioned there is a lot of religious allegory in this that like one of the main characters is a you know religious son. Yeah. ⁓ it is ⁓ it's it's simply told as the tale really of like just grief and regret and like these two fathers who bond who ultimately both end up with dead sons. Yeah. Right? And how In-Person: fighting for other South Africans. Yes. ⁓ it does not feel anyway, I quite enjoyed this book. definitely it it really you know it's really kind of touching. Mm-hmm. the relationship that that becomes between Steven and James. Like it's very I don't know, I quite enjoyed it. Looking forward to to reading it. Just Yeah. Going back I was like, I don't know why I have it. And then the also another title from a from another Yes. You know. Cry the Beloved Country for the Unborn Child that is the inheritor of our fear. I mean, come on. Sean: Cry the beloved country for the unborn child that is the inheritor of our fear. I mean, come on. That's so it's yeah, that's kind of universal, right? Like, yeah, it's it was good. I think you will quite enjoy it. Okay. I mean we need to really talk about what the the book about in is necessarily, right? Yeah, but I mean go ahead. In-Person: That's sort it's yeah, that's kind of universal, right? Like yeah, it's it was good. I think you will quite enjoy it. I mean we need to really talk about what the the book about is necessarily, right? Like Yeah, I I mean go ahead. Well, I was I mean, initially Stephen is is going to Johannesburg to find his sister, who his son, Absalom, has also gone to look for previously, but he did not come back. So another ⁓ to go find Gertrude, right? Yes. Another priest asks Stephen to go to find her and then ⁓ when he does find her, she's you know, she's not living her best life, maybe. ⁓ I'm sorry, my favorite thing though, it's she has fallen into prostitution. Sean: Go find Gertrude, right? Yes. Another priest asks Stephen to go to find her and then ⁓ when he does find her, she's you know, she's not living her best life, maybe. ⁓ I'm sorry, my favorite thing though, it's she's fallen into prostitution and beer brewing. Yeah. Like I like waiting for the entrepreneuse the horrors of beer brewing. But that's when he when when she agrees to come back with her own son. In-Person: And beer brewing. Yeah. Like I was like waiting. ⁓ it's like the horrors of beer. But that's when he when when she agrees to come back with her own son to the village, that's when Stephen says, Okay, I'm gonna go look for Absalom now and then when he finds him, that's when you discover that Absalom has killed James Jarvis's son. And then when that trial comes they meet and it's ⁓ it's and then the rest of the book unfolds, right? So it's very it's anyway, it's good. Sean: to the village, that's when Stephen says, okay, I'm gonna go look for Absalom now. And then when he finds him, that's when you discover that Absalom has killed James Jarvis's son. And then when that trial comes they meet and it's ⁓ it's yeah and then the rest of the book unfolds, right? So it's very it's anyway, it's good. Okay. Okay. Okay. Number 10. Number 10 In-Person: I liked it. Okay. Okay. Number ten. Number ten. The Fountainhead. ⁓ the fountainhead. Nineteen forty-three novel by Anne Rand. Anne Rand that follows the life of an individualistic architect, Howard Rourke, who battles against conventional standards and the establishment to maintain his artistic integrity. ⁓ Sean: Fountainhead. 1943 novel by Anne Rand. Anne Rand, that follows the life of an individualistic architect, Howard Rourke, who battles against conventional standards and the establishment to maintain his artistic integrity. In-Person: I did not read this one. I read Anthem instead. And the reason I read Anthem is because of Rush. So again, another I read a book based on something musical. and I think is her is it? Is it actually Ayn? It's Ayn. ⁓ that's why I've lost it. Yeah, it's actually Ayn, but like whatever. ⁓ It is. Because she's Russian. She is and her name is Sean: This one. I read Anthem instead. And the reason I read Anthem is because of Rush. So again, another I read a book based on something musical. ⁓ and I think is her is it? Is it actually that's why I paused. It's actually. She is, yeah. Her name is ⁓ In-Person: Yeah. I knew that it was an Anne when I was looking at it, but I didn't know how to pronounce it, so I just ⁓ I did not read anything else by her except anthem. ⁓ I like I get the the main theme is basically that individualism is better than conformity. ⁓ I think you could make a very valid argument for that kind of thinking, but her she ⁓ takes it a bridge too far. She does take it a bridge too far, and I Sean: Yeah. I knew that it was an Anne when I was looking at it, but I didn't know how to pronounce it, so I just ⁓ I did not read anything else by her except anthem. I like I get the the main theme is basically that individualism is better In-Person: ⁓ she yeah, I she's not a likable person. And she is beloved by them. So beyond that beyond that, let's separate yep the art from the artist. I this is not a th the characters in this book, not a single one of ⁓ I go back to my very like somebody's gotta be likable. Like I need to like somebody in the book and there's not a likable character. I don't know. I feel like that's why they cast Gary Cooper in the movie 'cause everybody's like, Everybody loves Gary Cooper. Well, I don't think you're wrong about that. I I mean ⁓ There's not a likable person in this ⁓ in this goddamn book, and least of all Dominique, the love interest of so many people in this book. And I'm not shaming her for being a love interest. Because she's a piece of shit. She's a piece of shit. The newspaper publisher guy pays a guy to divorce her so that he can then marry. It's they're just garbage people. Just garbage people in this book. Not a likable person in the Sean: They're just garbage people. Just garbage people in this book. Not a likable person in the whole thing. Do you do you wanna hear my notes? Yeah. They're very I bet it's real succinct. That's the word I was gonna say. This period bitch period. Also, this book bores me. It's boring as fuck. Because you don't like anybody and everybody's just Also, architecture's not that exciting. No, and then I remember there's this guy that we we knew that was trying to be an architect and he's like, This is In-Person: Do you do you wanna hear my notes? Yeah. They're very I bet it's real succinct. That was the word I was gonna say. This period bitch period. Also, this book bores me. It's boring as fuck. Because you don't like anybody and everybody's just architecture's not that exciting. No, and then I remember there's this guy that we we knew that was trying to be an architect and he was like, This is the Bible for architects. I was like, no, it's not, it's a bullshit garbage novel. It's a Bible for narcissism and he did so well. Well I I mean it is a ⁓ I wouldn't say philosophical text, but it's about objectivism, which she is trying to in this story get get out her the tenet objectivism. I just don't think it's well written. I'm not saying like I I don't like her personally, but Sean: the Bible for architects. I was like, no, it's not. It's a bullshit garbage novel. It is a Bible for narcissism and he did so well. Well I I mean it is a ⁓ I wouldn't say philosophical text but it's about objectivism what she yeah you know is trying to in this story get get out her the tenets of objectivism. I just don't think it's well written. I'm not saying like I I don't like her Personally. But In-Person: ⁓ there's something about her that is very biting into tinfoil and I don't it it just it doesn't it it this this doesn't please me. It's funny to me that and and I'm not saying this because we are clearly more liberal leaning folk. What? But it is it is it is curious to me that so many conservatives and right leaning people, even then and whatever version of that is now, ⁓ look at her when ⁓ I think if you looked at objectivism as a whole, they really are saying that individuality, creativity, innovation is better than conformity. Yet all of the tenets of well not all, but many of the tenets of being a conservative are you know, you should It's individual when it comes to the self but not to the greater. Yeah. Correct. So it's it's odd to me, or at least curious, that they look to her as some kind of ⁓ you know inspiration figurehead kind of from literature when she I think she really meant not that. Yeah. And she was just bad. She is not good. I'd say bad. I mean she wasn't, you know, good, bad. Yeah. ⁓ it's pizza. But yeah, she's d it's just not well written. And I know that there are millions that would disagree with me. There's Sean: you know inspiration figurehead kind of from literature when she I think she really meant not that. Yeah. And she was just bad. She's not good. I'd say bad. I mean she wasn't, you know, good, bad. Yeah. ⁓ it's pizza. But yeah, she's it's just not well written. And I know that there are In-Person: I this ⁓ if you notice she was not on Doug Whitaker's reading list. Mm-hmm. I do not think Doug Whitaker liked her and he was like, I'm not going to expose my class. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I know there were authors on that list. He did not do what the fuck I want. Yeah. And it was ⁓ Yeah, I I but I mean it perseveres. It's just whew. Yeah. Okay. ⁓ Sean: Okay. ⁓ wow. That is all ten. It's our first ten books. Six out of ten of those. Not bad. Not bad. I've bad. Read ⁓ in my brain zero. Michelle's in the middle with four. But ⁓ but hey, again, great research research, great ⁓ information that you all provided. So thank you for that. ⁓ anybody who's still with us. ⁓ don't forget to like, subscribe, follow the show wherever you're taking this in. ⁓ hit us up on our socials. ⁓ still looking for anybody to just, you know. In-Person: Wow. That is all ten. It's our first ten books. I read six out of ten of those. Not bad, not bad at all. About to be seven. I think three, maybe four. In my brain zero. Michelle's in the middle with four, but ⁓ ⁓ but hey again great resear research, great ⁓ information that you all provided, so thank you for that. ⁓ anybody who's still with us. ⁓ don't forget to like, subscribe, follow the show wherever you're taking this in. ⁓ hit us up on our socials. ⁓ still looking for anybody to just, you know, tell me to learn how to speak French. I don't know. ⁓ tell these two they're crazy. Something. Stop butchering names, Sean. I'll take anything at this point. But just remember, we regret nothing. Sean: Tell me to learn how to speak French. I don't know. tell these two they're crazy. Something. Stop butchering names, Sean. I'll take anything at this point. But just remember, we regret nothing.