Latest / The Good Builder Podcast / The Daily Dose #303 | Honesty Builds the Business | Matt from Vanstyn Constructions
Transcript
- Aaron Ng (00:00) Now, before I get into it, a big shout out to the legends at my construct. If you're still managing your jobs, contracts, client comms across text messaging and spreadsheets, there is a better way. My construct is built by Australian builders for Australian builders. And it is the best platform out there as a construction software. Jake and the team are working on some really exciting stuff that we've got to have a sneak peek at. But go and check them out. is myconstruct.com. You can get a 30 day trial and the guys there are absolute legends and they're taking the Australian building industry by storm. So go and check out their platform. They are very, very cool. And thank you once again, MyConstruct for being the proud sponsors of this podcast. Aaron Ng (00:59) Good morning and welcome to the Good Builder Podcast. Today I have a very special guest. It's a gentleman from Vanstyn Constructions. And to be honest with you, I've never met Matt before we did this podcast. I was sitting here having a chat before the podcast, and I'll tell you what, I'm energized for this one. It's very cool what I get to do here at The Good Builder, and what I get to do is talk to people who maybe go under the radar, but are doing exceptional work out there in the industry. And I'll tell you what, this guy is a bit of a weapon. So he's been in the industry over 20 years, maybe 30 years about, but he's had his own business for over 10 years now in Vanstyn constructions. And if you think about that alone, one in 20 construction businesses don't make the 10-year mark. You know I didn't end this gentleman has and he's absolutely flourishing. He's the first builder, actually, that we've had on that sort of dedicates his time to doing patio building and also renovations. We haven't spoken to many builders in this space. And the other thing that I like to do before I jump on a pod with anyone that I'm about to podcast with is I check out their Google reviews. And 4.9 stars from 70 reviews from this guy just shows the level of operation he's got. He's got fifteen staff as well, which blew me away. I was like, my goodness, at Avendale Homes, we didn't even have that. And then he works across residential and commercial. So it is an absolute pleasure to have this legend on the couch today. Matt, how are you, mate? Thanks. I'm great. Thanks, Aaron. Yeah. Mate, you've ⁓ you do some fascinating stuff. And as I said, I didn't really know what you did until You jumped on and we had a bit more of a chat about your history and things like that. And and mate, I love your philosophy on building. I love the way you've gone about it all. But where did it all sort of start for you, Matt? Where did the passion for this start? Well, where it started is a little bit hard and a little bit blurry as such. ⁓ I've always been a hands-on person. as a kid, I was hands-on. not one for writing stories or reading a book out there. hands on in the garden making stuff when I was a kid. Wow. And essentially it's really stemmed from that, you know, as a as a kid and t you know, teenager, I did multiple jobs, went through, you know, worked in a cafe and all that sort of bits and pieces as you do. And then ⁓ essentially fell into building and went from there. Yeah. And it was like, I like this. I love it. Let's get going. And and you talked before on the pod We were chatting about, you know, I'd said to you, ⁓ I tried to start a building business. I came in, had a university degree, business law, thought I was the shit, you know, did marketing, went and worked for GJ Gardner, came in, started my own building business of like, come on, we'll show these guys how it's done, you know business, and then it just sort of not fell to pieces, but fell to pieces. Tell us a little bit about how you went about it. And and I just wanted to do it. Because you talked about it a little bit before, how you came about owning your own business. And I think it shows the level of intelligence you have really. And like how life experience is so important. Yeah, well, it it started though again, I've wanted through many jobs as a kid and teenager. Yeah. And picked up, you know, I even worked in a mechanical workshop managing, you know, front of house there. and then I wanted to do something for myself. So I set up a handyman business essentially and was just doing handyman work. And from that I stepped into ⁓ commercial supervision. Wow. The role just appeared and I fell into commercial supervision. and from that I then carried on. I then went into managing an insurance builder business. my goodness. ⁓ that would have been pretty busy. Pretty hectic. They you do a number of jobs there, don't you? Absolutely. Like it was a big step up and it was a massive learning curve. but worked through it and the director helped me. Yeah. ⁓ but managing ⁓ a Brisbane office and doing a lot of insurance building. So we did a lot of storm damage, so Cyclone, Larry, Mackay floods, all those bits and pieces. And then, you know, worked for another couple of insurance builders over the years. Wow. worked for a couple of residential renovation builders. And then from that, one of those builders wasn't doing the right thing by his subbies. Yeah. and essentially I was trying to assist the subbies and help out, but he wasn't doing the right thing. And I sat back and went, why am I doing this? Why am I doing this? You know, these guys are getting screwed over and I don't believe in that. So essentially I sat back, did the numbers, had multiple chats, and then went, I'm going out on my own. I'm gonna do this on my own. And essentially started on my own. Yeah. On the tools. Wow. And then essentially grew from that. You know, I added an apprentice on, and then we added another guy on, and so on and so on. And it just grew from that. and it came to a point I had to come off the tools. ⁓ I've got a back injury. And essentially I did have to come off the tools. So it was a which direction do we go in? ⁓ wow. And so I had to step back. It was either continue on the tools and shorten my lifespan and working life is going to be shortened massively. Wow. So I stepped up the game and went, okay, come off the tools. Let's start something and build something a little bit bigger. And it went from there. Yeah, it was a hard transition. Because I do love being on the tools, but you know, I've got to think of long term what it's going to achieve by coming off the tools. So yeah, then now we're here we are. That is fas that's fascinating. I always say on this podcast a little bit, Matt, you're a product of your environment and learning a bit a little bit about you. I worked for Kmart Tyron Auto, for example. So he worked in a mechanical workshop at that front of house. Yeah. I think that might have taught you transparency and trust because Lots of mechanical customers don't trust what their mechanics are doing because you never get to see what's going on. Absolutely. And I'm not trying to be a psychologist here and I try not to be a psychologist on the couch. I reckon I need a psychologist for me on the couch. But I'm like looking at you, man, and I'm like, you are such a smart businessman and I can see you are so measured. And then when asked about your education, not that that matters. I actually it doesn't matter, man. Like I really believe now that the biggest edu the biggest and best educator is life. And life experience and you've got that in droves. Yeah. No degree can freaking you know, stand up to that. And you've got all these little things hospitality, mechanical, engineering, supervision. You're handy with your hands. You're a craftsman. But like what's fascinating for me is how you pieced it together. Like we talked before the pot, I was saying I got all this education. I couldn't piece it together. Like to form this great Business that I was trying to build, but you you've done it with with Vanstyn Constructions. Yeah. do you do any formal training or anything like that? Matt, this is probably just my own personal question, but how did you bring it together? Or did you just so the only formal training as such I went through was doing the cert four in building and construction to be able to get my building license. and even that in itself, as I say, I'm not a ⁓ paper guy. I'm not a educational guy as such, however you want to put it. ⁓ I don't read books, you know. I like picture books, but that's about it. I love it. So, you know, even doing the cert four was quite hard. And the trainer that was teaching us, he even said to me, because I'm like, mate, how do I do a two and a half thousand word essay? Like, this is doing my head in, you know, I'm spending all weekend trying to figure out how to write. And I'm I'm no good at writing. And He said to me, he goes, Matt, yep. We're builders. Yep. He goes, we're not the smartest cookies. He goes, what I want to see from you is that you can research and find the information. Wow. No, I don't want you to write an essay. I want you to find the information, highlight the information that the question that we're asking, and show that you've found it. And what the answer to that is. Wow. It's like, ⁓ So you don't want me to write any essays. No, no, no, no. I don't want you to write any essays. I want you to research. To show me that you know how to research. I was like, ⁓ brilliant. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was like, this doing this research, it was doing my heading and I didn't know how to write anything. Yeah. But when he told me that, I'm like, well, that makes sense. Yeah. Let's go with that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's really interesting, Matt. Like I I look at the sorry I'm going off on a tangent. We'll get more into Vanstyn constructions in your business in a sec, but you're you know, when you know, probably our generation when you're going s we i I don't know if you finish school, doesn't matter. But if you don't, we we used to look at it like a dropout. Yeah. And I think that's actually number one, a really shit thing to do and I think it's totally stupid. And number two, I think the education system, like honestly sitting here with you and having that pre pre talk with you, you're a smarter man than me and I don't care about saying that. Like you are an intelligent I couldn't run a business like you. And that's an intelligence that I want and I don't have. Like that's fascinating that you can do that. And I think we've got to get better as a society about picking talented people and then educating them in the way they need to learn. Not trying to what's the old saying? Put a square peg in a round hole. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Because look at the great business that's come out of this. You employ fifteen local people in your local community. Yeah. You're booming. You you're freaking ⁓ sorry, you frickin', but you you're building ⁓ you know, undercover shade areas and important structures for schools, yeah, for businesses, all that. Yeah. You know, we need to this is what I'm passionate about the good build. I'm like, we need to uplift these people. We need to like and your story is great because I bet you There's a thousands and thousands of young kids out there that are a bit lost and going, you know, I don't really fit the school system. And then they see you and go, Man, I'm the advanced I'm constructions. That's what I'm gonna do. Yeah. And there are there's certainly kids out there that will fit into that. And there are a lot of kids. And you talk about dropout or not drop out, absolutely. I made it through to year twelve just my last two years were essentially hands on subjects. Yeah, cool. But looking at it now, like if anyone was to ⁓ as you say, drop out, n you need to do an apprenticeship or something like that or get into doing something. You know, school's not all it's made out to be in my eyes. You know, sitting in a classroom learning science, like what do I need science? I did four unit masks, Matt. Four unit maths, which is like the advanced level of mass. I had this special class for me. I it's because I'm half Asian and I think I'm masked. You know, Chinese people just we're like live in the matrix. I don't know what's wrong with me. But anyway, have I used full unit masks ever? No. Have I built a brocket? Not yet. I'm not going to, Matt. Do you know what I mean? Like what's the practical side? Exactly. Exactly. And and and that's where, you know, I I fully support anyone that needs to go on that hands on who doesn't need to go to school to do it. Absolutely. ⁓ yes, I've had apprentices, ⁓ I've got a couple apprentices now, but we've had apprentices over the years. And some of them are just not suitable for an apprenticeship. Yeah. But there are kids that are suitable for apprenticeship. So it is also hard finding those. And, you know, a lot of these guys will need to, you know, put them on for a couple of months and see if they're worth it. No, this is not suited to you. You know, move on to something else. Yeah. ⁓ unfortunately, ⁓ like me, I moved multiple jobs when I was young to figure out what I wanted to do. Yeah. That's what these kids need to do now, you know. Yeah. Just because I I I like them building house I want to do on a carpentry apprenticeship. They're not necessarily suited to that. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You know, they might be a plumber, they might be electrician. Yeah. Or totally nothing construction. Yeah. Yeah. No, I love it, mate. I love your philosophy on that and I love how you support apprenticeships and apprentices in your business. That's something we've absolutely shone through. ⁓ well, talking about your business, can you tell us a little bit about what you do? I gave a very brief overview of what you do at Vanstyn Constructions and and you know. Talked about commercial and residential. But what do you exactly do there? So essentially, we are a Stratco dealer. we install supply and install patios, carports, and decks. Wow. That is our one side of the business. Yeah. So that is only residential. With our commercial, we do a lot of schools, we do walkways, still using the Stratco product. you know, people think. patios just come in one shape, one form, one size. It's off the shelf. Everything we do with car ports and patios is all custom made. wow. To the millimeter. You know, we often have customers say, well, just just just to the nearest size that suits this. And we go, No, no, no, no. It's it's down to the millimeter. We will come out and measure and it's custom made. Love it. Custom measured everything. So patios, car ports, you know, opening, closing roofs. ⁓ gables, you name it, we can do it. And we do a lot of decks with those. There are a lot of patio companies that don't do those add-ons, but we do the add-ons. Yeah. As a licensed builder, we can do that extra stuff. Wow. And then on our other side of the business, we have our renovations and extensions. Yeah. So we will have one team dedicated to renovations and our other teams dedicated to patios and awnings. ⁓ When the guys on patios need help, yes, our boys on the renovations will step over and give a hand. You know, different size jobs requires different amount of guys and expertise. Yeah. But ⁓ at any one time we've got patios being installed as well as renovation. Wow. Now the boys are currently on a large renovation in Brighton at the moment with a an extension. it's doubling the size of the house. Well and then the existing house will get fully renovated. It's a ⁓ Sixties house full of asbestos. Asbestos is all getting removed by the asbestos root removalist people. Yeah. ⁓ and then we're doing the rest of the work. Wow. So they'll do that and then we'll move on to our the next one. But patios will be continuing in the background. Yeah. Let me ask you this, but I think this is pretty interesting and and you seem like you're a man that's always up for a challenge. Why did you choose building all the services that you chose in terms of building? When people are still living in the home. It'd be one of the hardest, wouldn't it? You know, like sometimes you turn up and do a carport, the family's there. Yeah. When you're building a new home, I remember Avendale homes, they're not there. Yeah. So, you know, there's less pressure, there's less people looking over your shoulder. You know, that must impact the way you operate. And I think you have to be a certain type of operator in that space. Yeah. Sometimes it's difficult. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ most owners are pretty good. Yeah, cool. ⁓ and then, you know, w as we always say to them, you don't need to be home while we're building your patio or your carboard. You don't need to be there. we're all good. We've got our tools. that's all fine. But some owners insist on being there. Yeah. some try to push the friendship a little bit and, you know, step into the workplace and we're like, Well, no, you need to step back. It's workplace health and safety. You know, let us build. Yeah. You know, that's not safe. ⁓ some will just sit inside at their kitchen window staring out. They're normally the retired people, I will say, you know, but you know, they've got nothing better to do and they just want to watch. Yeah. some will, you know, interfere halfway along, asking multiple questions. But again, we just need to we're getting this bill, you know. Yeah. Just step back a little bit. But ninety-five percent of customers are good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just got the cage one. But we we don't have any pressure. ⁓ it is it is good that they're there sometimes. You know, we turn up at 6 30 to start building at 6 30. They're getting ready for work, they say hello, meet the team, guys that are getting installed, you know, any last minute little things that they want to say or ⁓ you know, that this. And my guys will talk to the owners. You know, it doesn't matter who who they are, whether it's myself, my construction manager, sales guys, or the guys on the ground will always talk to the owner and have a chat to them and just Put them at ease that it's all gonna be fine. Yeah. You just sit back, relax and turn up and look what you've got when you get home. I love it, mate. How many beers or coffees have you had under a ⁓ patio that you've built? It's normally all the guys that get it. I'm the one that misses out. It's lonely at the top when you're leading the business, you know, so you you don't get the spoils of the ⁓ No. No of the end result. No. Even though you're yeah you're fueling it. Yeah. Yeah. The guys will get muffins, cupcakes, and I'll find out later. I'm like mate. What's going on? I turn up and they've all eaten and they've all drunk it and it's like, well, okay, no worries. It's all good. mate. That's fine. The guys are on site. ⁓ they do the hard yards. Yeah. I just ⁓ I just play the games at the top. Yeah, wow. Yeah. Well you do things a fair bit differently though, and that's why I think a lot of the owners ⁓ get you in for coffees and muffins, well at least your team coffees, muffins and beers. Yeah. So you cancel approvals and all that sort of stuff. So you're handling that you're handling that. We handle that a lot, yeah. For the client. Yep. Absolutely. Wow, when did that come about? Was it is it a a lot of businesses in that space, a lot of other builders doing it or not not at all? A lot of builders, well, in the patio side of things, a lot will sort that out. Okay. and it's and it's one of those, it's a one stop shop, you know. And as I say before, is that we also do the other bits and pieces. But from when you ring up, yeah, we organise, we just get a bit of information over the phone. Why just to find out what you're after. ⁓ make sure you're legitimate. Yeah. You know, we will look it up on satellite and your property, check it out and just get a bit of an understanding what's going on. and then work out because the biggest problem we've got now, and especially Morton Bay, is with all the new developments, they're small lots. Yeah. And there's a lot of new developments. We can't build anything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we work that out at the start. So by looking it up on the satellite, we go, well, actually unfortunately You're not gonna be able to build anything there. wow. And it's not our doing, it's council's doing. You know, they're putting in all these extra homes, but they're so small that there's no room for patios and especially car ports. wow. ⁓ Warner Lakes, for example, has been around for fifteen odd years, something like that. Yeah. You can't build car ports out the front. Really? They've got it in the rules, you cannot build it out the front. And we have at least one phone call a week. Requesting a carport out the front in Water Lakes. Now we check the address. And depending on what side of a particular road you're on, you can have it or you can't have it. And unfortunately we've got to let people down and go, You can't have it. Holy moly. And we don't like throwing work away, but it's like there's no point. There's no point. We can take your money, we can try with council, but it's not going to get through. We'd rather tell you up front. I wanna spend your money, but you're not gonna get anything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's that's why we handle council approval is because we know what needs to be done. We provide all the drawings, all the information, all the engineering, and it's private certifier. And so we send it to a private certifier. And they go this way or that way, and then ask the questions and we sort that out. Because some of the applications can be quite tricky and there's a lot of backwards and forwards. And most homeowners don't understand what needs doing and it'll t yeah. It would take them ten times longer to sort out. Yeah. Whereas we've got our direct access and can sort it out quicker. Wow. So it's a one stop shop. We don't charge extra to do it. Obviously it's part you know, the fees that get charged by the certify and the council is paid by the homeowner. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We don't charge an actual fee to go, we'll sort it out for you. It's just part of the overall package. Wow. So those patios, carports, we sort it out. So from when you phone, we look at on online on the satellite, we our sales guy will go out, measure, have a chat, work out what's best, what will work, what doesn't work. Yeah. In some instances, some things won't work that we think will work. Yeah. and then once it's all approved, we then get all materials organized, book in the in the boys. And then they'll come and install it. Wow. And then we get the final check by the certifier at the end to go, yep, they've built it correctly as for what they said they were gonna build it. Wow. So excuse my ignorance on this, Matt. But and and you've talked you talked about this before we started the pod, but you not only do it for clients, you do it for builders too. Correct. So is that the same sort of process what you do for a builder if they're building a new home, for example. We've got tons of builders that listen to us. Yeah. I vouch for Matt actually, like Any of you builders out there, honestly, in the southeast Queensland, if you really like talking to Matt and have a look at his business, if you ever need a a a patio or deck builder, I think y you're the man. is that the same sort of process you do for a builder? Is that what sort of happens? It is similar. It is similar. And with builders, obviously builders know construction. Yeah. And they've got their head around it a bit more than a normal homeowner. So depending, some builders don't want to sort out the certification. Yeah. They might have a job and they're doing something else and they just want us to throw in a patio or a carport. We always ask, are you sorting out certification or are we? you can you can sort out. Okay. We'll sort out the certification. Love it. so it does vary from builder to builder what they're after. Someone's just like, No, it's all approved. You just need to supply and install it, done, dusted, that's it. So it varies. Obviously that's part of our process of finding out what is required and what's not required. Yeah. Some builders have got no idea and want us to come out and design something up, you know, for their client with them there. Some just go, can you go meet my client, work out what they want, send me the quote. and then again, some will already have plans. You know, their draftsmen or engineers drawing up plans. It won't be exactly what we have, but it'll be similar. You know, they might have a couple of posts. And beam and some insulated panel that they need installing. And we will essentially go out, still check on site, you know, some slight adjustments. They've got the plans, they're getting it certified, done. Supply and install. There you are. So it varies. It varies. But as I said, builders have more knowledge of what goes on in the process. Yeah. ⁓ so you're talking you're talking normal as opposed to a a homeowner. is not understanding of the process. Yeah. And you're sort of speaking to like a four year old. That's right. Yeah. In a way. In a way. Yeah. Not not in, you know, the direct way, but making breaking it down for them to get very cool map. Okay. All right. Yeah. Well we've got plenty of builders around south east Queensland. And I reckon anyone out there that needs a deck we also know a few commercial developers. I reckon we we need to make a few introductions, do you? I think they need a few shade areas for their lunching areas, maybe smoking areas. yeah. You know one hundred percent. One particular company, ⁓ we've done a waiting area for end of day so they can catch the bus. wow. You know, we do a lot of we do a lot of commercial covers like that. Front covered area. in Brendale, for example, big commercial site. They've got a car park, but no undercover area at all in the front of their building. So we put a roughly a hundred square meter size roof area. So when they're walking from the car park, they've got undercover. Because they're all about safety, safety, safety, and they don't want any of their stuff slipping while they're walking. mate, that is that is so cool. Do you work in the retail space? In retail and like like shopping centres and things like that? ⁓ not in shopping centres as such. Okay. ⁓ most people don't want the shade inside. Yeah, true. but we have been called up with some retail spaces for outdoor cafe, et cetera. Areas. ⁓ sometimes it might be their bin covers. We ⁓ another retail spot in Brendale, they had a bin area that only had surrounds, but the retail business owners would throw their rubbish just over instead of opening the gates. wow. And so when the bin guys would come, there would be just rubbish everywhere, not in the bins. So to counteract that, we came in and put a roof over the top. So now the retail is starting still open up to open. So even business owners acting like kids literally and didn't care. So we came in and yeah, put a roof over. So yeah. Varying varying things. Yeah, varying applications. I absolutely love it. Well, we had a quick chat before the pod too. Yeah. What are you seeing out there in in Southeast Queensland and Brisbane in terms of the market? Has there been as the industry has it quietened down since you know the budget and all these things are being talked about? renovations went through the roof over ⁓ COVID and things like that. Are they still they might not be at COVID levels, but are they still kind of you feel? Mind you, everybody out there, I am talking to a good business owner, so you're going to kind of get, you know, word of mouth coming through and a lot of jobs coming through. But is that what you're seeing out in the industry, Matt? What are you is it positive? It it it's still positive. Yes, you always get nervous. You've got you know, Donald Trump who scares everyone and the market went a bit funny. You know, our leads for patios went a little bit funny straight away at the start, but then continued through. Yeah, wow. and kept coming in. You know, there was it was like, Well, let's see what's going on here and then you've got your interest rate increases, which again You get that funny change for a few days, but then it goes back to normal. and anything that's going on, and everyone just gets scared for a few days and then lets things settle, and then it just goes back to normal. The people that want to purchase are still purchasing. Yeah. Yes, it's slowed ever so slightly, but not it's gone completely 100% down to five percent. Yeah, I love it. It's still cruising through. ⁓ winter is always a slightly quieter on patios, just because most people don't think about it. Yeah. Because they're not outside as much. Yeah, yeah, yeah. ⁓ but it's still we're still flowing through. renovations. We've still got a lot of renovations in the pipeline, absolutely. Yeah. I reckon there's gonna be more to come though. There will be. I I our neighbours, they've got two adult children, I suppose. They're probably in their mid twenties. And they just renovated their entire home to give them wings of the house. And I reckon more and more, like I I I'll look at my daughter and I'm like, Are you ever gonna buy a house? I don't want you to move out. I don't think you're going to. I think we're gonna have to renovate. Yep. You're seeing a bit of that too, Matt? Yep. We're you know, w it was only a conversation ⁓ at at our house just recently. not in our direct house, but with in laws and intergenerational living. You know? And it has been spoken about and just in around in a general conversation, yeah, like getting more granny flats onto properties. ⁓ we're building a granny flat for ⁓ one awesome client later this year. And he's got a couple properties that we're going to be adding those granny flats onto later on. So throwing a small granny flat, you can have possibly two separate families there, or again, intergenerational. living there as well. But it has been spoken about. ⁓ we've got a large renovation coming up at Everton Hills, for example, and there's only two of them, but with the design process, we're discussing areas for other people to be living in. So it can be separate living when other family comes and stays. Yeah. So yeah, there is a lot starting to get a lot more talk about Intergenerational living. Yeah. ⁓ and how properties can house more people on them. Yeah, yeah, because it's you know, as you would know, it's very popular in other cultures in a way. Yeah. So you might see that in some Indian cultures and things, Chinese cultures, Asian cultures, around Brisbane area and things like that. But we're seeing it, yeah, just from a bird's eye view when we're looking at it. There's a lot more happening and I think good renovation businesses like you are gonna clean up, which is good for you, mate. Like I'm not complaining. I'm not complaining. Keep it going. How are you building the ground flats? Are they a traditional sort of are you building them in a traditional way? Are they or are they portable ones or no? So literally traditional build. this one particular is in Klon Tarf, so we're not gonna build it on the ground. We've got to keep it off four hundred mil, for flood. Yeah. You know, in case the ocean comes in. But essentially just on ⁓ stumps, joists, bearers, and we've just spilled it situ. But I've designed it with my designer. We've designed it in such a way that it's an it's an easy build. but it's a nice small it's a two bedroom, yeah, granny flat with a carport, a little deck. just a nice little build, nice, easy, comfortable, cozy, not over the top, but it's not cheap and nasty. Yeah. You know. So yeah, it and it'll fit it'll tie in with the house. That's already there. Mate. Yeah. Mate, I I I I think I just see them gonna spring up everywhere, mate. So I think it's it's super cool. Well, ⁓ now we're gonna talk a little bit about, you know, we briefly touched on, you know, it's it's lonely at the top, isn't it, Matt? Like I'm I'm not trying to make it that that actually sound a bit corny, but I didn't mean it that way. I mean like as a leader in a business, it it's a tough gig. I said to you, you know, I tried to start my own building business. You're alone, you don't know who to talk to. That's why I was so fascinated with you earlier in this podcast, and I still am fascinated right now, but and and when we chatted was like, what's your education? Where you come from? Because you were talking to me and you and you're just like so logical with with how you do it all. and and the other point of of all that is, you know, rarely does the leader get to really sort of reward themselves. So what do you kind of do to reward yourself? How do you how you make that happen within a business, Matt? rewarding myself is a is an interesting thing, yes. ⁓ yes, it is lonely at the top. Yeah. ⁓ and you don't get the beers, you don't get the cupcakes. That's right, exactly. The only time I get the beers is when I get the boys back to the office and then And it's your shout, Mike. It's my shout. Occasionally one of the guys will be nice and bring some because he's done something bad for the week and owes. I was the drinks, but ⁓ yeah. but yeah, generally it's my shout. So it's like but anyway, but it is what it is. you take the good with the bad. But rewarding myself essentially, up until, you know, a few years ago, there was no reward. The only reward is that I can take holidays whenever I want. you know, I can step away from the office when I want. I don't have to report to somebody. Yeah. You know, in For me, that's a good thing. You know, I can spend more time with family when I need to. Yeah. ⁓ I'm not having to go, I need annual leave on this date and then it doesn't work out. ⁓ so there's those varying things. The the other big thing ⁓ nowadays is essentially with pay dot com dot AU and Amex, we get points. wow. As a business owner, you know, our spendings go through and we get points. And without those, I wouldn't be travelling. Yeah, wow. You get to travel overseas now. from the po y yeah, you know, pay dot com dirty you were a good sponsor overseer, the good builder. Yeah. And and you know, w that was part of the reason I wanted to talk to you. So you know, you've got especially for construction businesses, I think you've got high cash flow coming in and out of the business. Yeah. So to accumulate those sorts of rewards are a bit easier. Yes. And ⁓ what was some of the most memorable for you? You kind of spoke about it right at the beginning, I think. And I it was off air, but if you don't mind sp you know, talking about that experience. I thought that was cool, man. Like you work so hard and I I know the blood, sweat and tears. I probably don't, but I feel like I know a bit of the blood, sweat and tears that you've put in because you put in, you know, as I said, I didn't make it. Way more than I did and and you're going through, like, you know, what was that like? So yeah, essentially, w we had a trip planned and we booked it with our points through pay.com.au. And it was a trip to Japan. And we went from Brisbane. I took two of my kids and the wife. And we flew from Brisbane to Singapore. We flew Economy. It was like, yep, this is good. Yep. Singapore Airlines. Awesome. And then from Singapore, after spending a few days there, we went to Japan. But this time we went business class. And The realization when we were sitting in that seat early on, and I was sitting there going, Wow, wow, this is awesome. We've made something. And it's that there's that moment that it really actually hit me. It's like, this is brilliant. Yeah. you know, this is the perk of all those hard yards of how many years of sitting back. You know, you get to sit in the big seat. Yeah. You get lots of drinks and lots of food on your flight. I love it. and I can't go back from that. Yeah. Yeah. So that seat is always your seat. That's Every time you travel. Yep. And just based off what you're gonna spend anyway. That's it. You know what I That's it. Yeah. Like that's the cool bit about it. I and I think more builders need to you you run really hard businesses. You don't get to get away that often. So when you do it, do it in freaking style. Yeah. And that's when you told that story. Because I went to Japan three years ago, but I ⁓ not on the program. Well, we're on the program now, but I wasn't on the pay.com.au program. We don't have as I could probably get a business class ⁓ class flight to the Gold Coast right now with the amount of cash flow that goes through this business. But anyway, I'll probably drive there quicker. But anyway, you know, ⁓ you know, and I flew to Japan and when you said that and like even, you know, just being able to take family too, Japan. I knew how much it meant to the kids, but to give them that experience as well, I think that's really cool. I think that's really rewarding and and ⁓ yeah, just wanted to touch on that because I think it's something that as builders and business owners you you rarely look at rewarding yourself, do you? You always look at like we talked about throughout this whole podcast without even really knowing. You're always rewarding someone else. You're the one bringing the beers. Yeah. You're the one that's I I'm not saying this in a bad way. It's gonna sound worse to everybody else than I'm actually trying to say it but You're the one paying everyone's wages. You know, you're the one that's got all the pressure if stuff doesn't work out. You're the one with the risk. You're the one with the license. You're putting all your assets on the line so that you can run a business that you can employ people, which, you know, it's not it's it's rewarding. Yeah. But when do you actually get that, you know, like that feeling of, hey, I've made it, I've done it. Yeah. You know, this is what it's for. I think that's very cool that you've done there, Matt. Yeah. So No, it's pretty good. Yeah. It's pretty good. And is it a pretty easy program? I found it pretty easy. You found it pretty easy to you know, work through and I've I've heard now when you send your invoices as well. Yeah. You get your points on yeah. Yeah, no, pay dot com dot AU, it is brilliant. ⁓ I use it all the time. Yeah, well. I use it for my ATO bills. ⁓ really? So I'm getting points. By paying my ATA, you know, you've got your Bass, you've got to pay. You've got your P A Y G, you've got to pay. So I'm earning points on pay.com.au. And by using their platform, I'm also using my Amex card. So I'm actually getting points with pay.com.au. Wow. As well as I'm getting points on my AMAX card. So essentially I'm double dipping on my points. So you accumulate those points, there's more flights. I told you you're smiling there. I'll sit down and work it out with you. I love it. You've worked the system, Matt. Well, mate, that's so cool to hear and and you utterly deserve it. As I said, you you Vanstyn Constructions, you run an amazing business. You know, the the five star reviews, everything. So what's next for Vanstyn Constructions? What do you w where do you see the business going over the next two to five years or where do you look at that? So essentially, I'm not going to make it a big monstrosity of a company. Okay. we're just gonna plot along fairly similar size to what we are now. I don't see there being a need to make it bigger. The bigger it is, the more problems you get. Wow. ⁓ we just wanna run comfortably and manageable. You know, we're gonna continue our renovation side, we're gonna continue our patios, carboards, deck side. You know, keep the guys in a manageable space. You know, yeah, we could go massive, but There's a massive amount of problems. Yeah. Massive amount of risk. I don't want a business that there's huge risk. You know, I don't want a business that there's potential for big issues. You know, more staff, more people you've got to control. You know, it's like running a kindergarten. Yeah. You know, if you've got five kids in the kindergarten, they're easy to manage. When you've got 25 kids in a kindergarten, it's an absolute mayhem. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's the same. You know, staff are like that. So it's Everyone's got these and that. So we're just gonna flow nicely and just keep it steady, you know. That's ⁓ I don't need to be a billionaire. Yeah. ⁓ it'd be great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, if someone wants to drop a billion my way, happy to take it. but no, we'll just cruise along nicely. ⁓ our plan is just to plot along. That is so cool. So you know your you know your numbers really well, wouldn't you, Matt? Yeah, like you know And this kind of answers the final question of the podcast, actually. And I think for me, like just sitting here talking to you and noting what you just said, I think this answers this next question. You're you're a truly good builder, mate. but what do you think makes a good builder, Matt? A good builder is the key to being a good builder is honesty. You know, being clear and upfront. They're the keys. Anyone can build stuff. Yeah. But then there's good guys that can put, you know, use their hands properly. But without being honest You're not gonna be you you've got to have a a bit of everything there. Yeah. So you've got to be great at hands on, great at managing, and honest. You know, there's a lot of builders out there that aren't, and but there's a lot that are. Yeah. And unfortunately, there are some bad eggs out there that make us in the negative space. But I always just just be honest. Yeah. Being honest and good at what we do, that's a good builder. I love. I love your answer. And you know what, Matt, you know what I the feeling of? And I I'm again, I'm sorry if I'm trying to be a psychologist to you. But I feel you are quite honest with yourself too. Like you look at what you can achieve, what's manageable in your business, what the numbers like looking at your business and and you know, with my marketing hat on now, I'm like I I do look at your business and go, you could be as big as you want. Just like you said, you've got a great reputation. Get the backing of Stratco, you get all this stuff, like there's nothing that can stop you if you beside yourself and knowing when you're going too far, you know, in terms of doing good service for your clients and being honest with yourself. And I I love that about you, mate. I think that's really I don't know, exceptional. Like we haven't had that much on the podcast at all. No one really talking about that. So that's why I asked, like, do you know your numbers well? Yeah. Obviously you do. And then that answer that you gave around being a good builder, I think it yeah, it's a bit twofold with your honest you can see by the reviews you're very honest with your customers and people love you. But you're really honest with yourself and where your business is at and where it needs to be. Yeah. That's some really cool advice, mate. Well, ⁓ Matt, mate, how do people find you? ⁓ we're gonna put all the links below and and as I said, you know, we we are a builder podcast, a lot of builders listen to us. So builders out there, if you need the best patio and deck and renovation builder to help you out with any projects, here's your man. But other than that, how do they get what's the best way to get in touch with you? Best way ⁓ is through our website, which is vanstein.com.au. Yeah, yeah, cool. Literally. That's it. You know, it's vanstein constructions or the easiest way, vanstein.com.au. Our phone number, all our details are on there. We're on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok. we're across everything, but you'll be able to get in touch with us there. We'll love it. Well, mate, if you don't mind, Matt, I would really love to do this because I've been so impressed with you, mate, and I love what you do. ⁓ next time we're in Brazil, I might give you a buzz and I might pop through with ⁓ the content creator and myself and we might do a bit of a video on one of your projects and catch up with what you're doing. Absolutely. Really cool. And like I said, we haven't had many patio or deck builders on, renovation builders. And I think it's a ⁓ it's sometimes a harder service to deliver because such an intimate relationship with people right there in your face as you're building away. But as I said, to get those sort of ratings, that's pretty good at what you do. Thanks. All right. Well thank you very much, Matt.