Latest / The Lila Rose Show / E285: "I See Into That World": The Shocking Spiritual World of Non-Speaking Autism | Lila Rose Show

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E285: "I See Into That World": The Shocking Spiritual World of Non-Speaking Autism | Lila Rose Show · The Lila Rose Show

• 0:00
  This kind of mind reading is not unusual.
• 0:02
  We ignore it because it seems unscientific.
• 0:05
  Non speaking autistic people can see angels and demons battling.
• 0:08
  Yes, physically fighting weapons that are not weapons you'd find
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  on the earth. Cody mentioned to his dad, mom,
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  and spelling session that he was being oppressed by a demon.
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  His words and giving these levels of detail that were odd
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  to put it mildly. Cody did you actually see this?
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  Yes, I see into that world the next spelling system, she said.
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  Cody why did you say Elisha? Did you know I was about to read
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  that? And Cody said, oh, Jesus told
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  me. I said it because I want you to
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  know I Billy in Houston says when I go to the Hill, I meet my
• 0:39
  friend Johnny from Miami. And somebody's taking the time
• 0:42
  to finally track down Johnny, and he's real and he knows Billy
• 0:45
  in Houston. Tell me about this hill.
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  The hill is not just hanging around with friends, which is
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  what the Telepathy Tapes kind of hints at.
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  They go there to be. They are praying.
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  Our children with non speaking autism far more aware than we
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  realize. Are there spiritual realms that
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  non verbal people and people with disabilities may have
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  remarkable insight to? The answers in today's episode
• 1:16
  will shock you. Welcome back to the Lila Rose
• 1:19
  show. Today I sit down with one of the
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  key figures behind the wildly popular podcast Telepathy Tapes,
• 1:25
  author and attorney Joseph and Franco.
• 1:28
  Joseph shares the truly jaw-dropping spiritual realities
• 1:31
  that that podcast cut out. Here at the Lila Rose Show, our
• 1:35
  audience believes that spiritual realities are as true as
• 1:38
  physical realities. If you want to join us in
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  spreading this message, make sure that you've actually hit
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  that subscribe button. Leave this video a like and you
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  For everyone who becomes an annual paid patron over at
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  patreon.com/lila Rose Show, you get your of free merch.
• 1:59
  I love our new merch. We're really proud of it.
• 2:01
  You all have been loving it as well.
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  It's absolutely gorgeous. I hope you guys enjoy it too.
• 2:05
  Joseph and Franco, welcome to the podcast.
• 2:08
  Well, thanks for inviting me. It's great to be here.
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  I'm so excited for our conversation.
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  We were talking before and I thought, stop, stop talking.
• 2:15
  I have to get this on tape. Everything you're saying is so
• 2:17
  incredible, and I think if people knew what you have to
• 2:21
  share, it would transform the way that we see people with
• 2:24
  disabilities, people with autism, and the spiritual realm
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  and the soul. So thank you for making the time
• 2:29
  to do this. It's a privilege to be with you.
• 2:32
  Live us a little bit first about your background.
• 2:35
  I know we've had some connection with ADF, which we both love.
• 2:38
  And then how you first got aware of even this topic of this other
• 2:43
  realm having to do with spellers or those with disabilities?
• 2:46
  Yeah. So my background as I'm an
• 2:48
  attorney, I was a litigator in New York for 25 years and I
• 2:52
  started doing some church related religious liberty
• 2:56
  constitutional litigation. And then from that I received an
• 3:00
  invitation to join a ministry called Alliance Defending
• 3:03
  Freedom. So I was with them for almost 18
• 3:07
  years. My role there was overseeing
• 3:09
  what they call the Allied Attorney Network.
• 3:11
  So these were lawyers in private practice.
• 3:15
  They didn't work for us, but we were helping them with religious
• 3:18
  liberty cases. So the last maybe 10-15 years of
• 3:22
  my time was devoted more toward they would call me coach, more
• 3:26
  toward helping them evaluate cases, more teaching, mentoring,
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  that kind of thing. And then 2020 I I went from
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  being an elder to a pastor at my church at Highlands Church in
• 3:40
  Scottsdale, AZ. And I'm loving, loving the
• 3:43
  pastoral season now. So tell me when you first got a,
• 3:48
  an awareness even of I mean, this is your new book that's
• 3:52
  out. It just came out a couple months
• 3:53
  ago. Decoding Cody secrets of the
• 3:54
  spectrum from people with autism who see, hear and smell in the
• 3:59
  unseen realm. Extremely fascinating.
• 4:02
  There was the very hit podcast The Telepathy Tapes.
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  I think it beat even Joe Rogan. It did.
• 4:09
  Number one in the world. Number one in the world, you had
• 4:12
  something to do with that, although they didn't really
• 4:14
  tackle the spiritual realm as much, which is something that
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  this book does. That's a little bit different
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  than ADF and a litigator. So how did you get involved?
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  With it, yeah, it was an it was an unexpected thing.
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  It was a God appointment. It's hard to say more about it
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  than that. Initially, I, I was just
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  fascinated when it started with four individuals in my church
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  and we have a large special needs ministry, one of the
• 4:39
  largest in the Phoenix Valley. We, we usually minister to at
• 4:44
  least eighty families on a weekend so the parents can
• 4:47
  attend, you know, church while the the their children are being
• 4:53
  cared for and taught, you know, a Bible lesson.
• 4:56
  It's not just babysitting. We do the Tim Tebow Foundation
• 5:00
  night to shine. We pack the campus with sixteen
• 5:04
  1700 people and we just, we love that heart.
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  We love to minister to those whom, you know, the world
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  considers less for some reason. And I always think of Jesus's
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  words in Matthew 2540. What you've done for the least
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  of these you've done for me. And I've always believed that
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  and tried to live that way. What happened was it started
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  with four people in our church. Now there's considerably more
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  who had autism and they call it non speaking autism.
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  That's the term they use, not non verbal.
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  And what that means is because autism is a spectrum, their
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  speech is unreliable to varying degrees.
• 5:43
  So you might meet some, I'm not even sure the right way to say
• 5:47
  this, deeper in the spectrum who have almost no speech.
• 5:51
  You'll meet some who have limited speech.
• 5:54
  Perhaps they repeat a lot. You'll find up to what some of
• 5:59
  this courts have told me. They are high, they have high
• 6:02
  functioning autism and they can carry a conversation and they
• 6:07
  can, they have employment, but they still struggle with some of
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  the things that I hear from others.
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  There's difficulty with emotions, there's a tendency
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  perhaps to obsess over things. There's a time they just feel
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  they're out of sync with people or situations.
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  So it started with four, two young men, two young women who
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  had non speaking autism or have, and I learned that they were
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  suddenly communicating by something called spelling.
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  These are people at your church, Yes.
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  And how? How long ago was this?
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  This may be now four or five years.
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  OK, so your first encounter with this about five years ago 4 non
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  verbal were these kids? Yes, well, young, you know,
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  teenagers. I, I've known Cody this who's
• 6:55
  the lead subject of the book. I talk about many others in the
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  book, but Cody's sort of the focus to explain the process.
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  I've known Cody since he was a little boy.
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  He's 6 foot 5 now. He would have played football
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  like his brother, you know, if he didn't have autism.
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  He loves football. He's told me.
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  People assume that Cody had an infantile understanding of the
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  world. So he was shown kid cartoons,
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  Barney the Dinosaur and when he's when he first started
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  spelling and what what Let me explain spelling.
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  Spelling in his case, and most of the people I've met involves
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  a board with letters. It's about the size of your
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  laptop screen and a spelling facilitator works with the
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  person to kind of help them regulate.
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  It has letters of the alphabet, punctuation Marks.
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  And then in conversation, Cody will take his hand and thing,
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  he'll point to letters and he will spell out answers or
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  comments that he wishes to make. There's even a delete key.
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  And people with with people who have autism significantly into
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  the spectrum have difficulty with fine motor coordination.
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  And because speech is fine motor coordination, that's a reason
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  speech is commonly affected. And and so the the idea of
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  taking your hand and pointing to letters sounds simple to us.
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  It's not simple for them. It takes time for them to feel
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  their body, sense their body, cut new neural pathways and
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  order their body to do things. A lot of them have described it
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  for me as my body's uncooperative.
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  My brain wants to do things. My body won't listen, it won't
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  obey. So that's the struggle that they
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  have. Well, when these individuals
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  began spelling, one of the first things they were all saying was
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  I'm in here. Stop treating me like a kid.
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  Stop showing me those cartoons. Cody went on to say he was
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  interested in politics, history, love studying World War 2.
• 9:04
  Matthew explained he loves architecture and loves to build
• 9:07
  things. My favorite was Elsa, who too is
• 9:10
  like my granddaughter. We joke around.
• 9:12
  Elsa went from kid cartoons to saying, I love chemistry, I love
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  math, I've memorized the periodic table and I want to
• 9:21
  study the brain. So suddenly these these stories
• 9:27
  were coming out and more of them were were kind of filtering out
• 9:32
  around the country as this was happening.
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  My first reaction Lila was I was skeptical.
• 9:38
  I'll be honest, I I wasn't skeptical that they were in
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  there, but I was skeptical of some of the things they were
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  saying because they were talking about seeing the spiritual
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  dimension. They, and we'll get to this,
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  they see angels, they've seen angels and demons fight.
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  They have insights. Some of them see parts of
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  heaven. So because that was part of the
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  early conversation, I was initially thinking, I'm not sure
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  this is legitimate. Are they imagining things?
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  Are they repeating something they heard in a, you know, in a
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  church somewhere? So that caused me to kind of
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  dive into it and I wanted to understand more about autism.
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  And what I found surprised me. I actually went into it like an
• 10:24
  attorney. I went to attorney mode.
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  I was going to cross examine witnesses the way I would to see
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  if they were telling the truth. And that led me to look into
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  autism, the the kinds of mistakes that people might make,
• 10:38
  motives they might have to be less than truthful.
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  So you have to ask questions like, is somebody doing this to,
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  you know, for financial gain? Are they making up something for
• 10:51
  attention? Are they seeing something that's
• 10:54
  not really there? And I address those questions
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  could one at a time. At the end of it I thought I
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  found out, Oh my goodness, this is likely that they're telling
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  the truth. I didn't know.
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  For example, people with autism are among the most honest people
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  you'll meet in general. There you'll find some sources
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  online that goes far as saying they're incapable of lying.
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  I don't think that's the case. And I found studies that say
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  when somebody with non speaking autism or severe has severe
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  autism, when they're able to lie, it's actually considered a
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  therapeutic breakthrough because lying involves taking in non
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  verbal cues. If you intend to lie to
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  somebody, good liars will study their facial emotions or brain
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  is making dozens of split second calculations.
• 11:46
  How are you reacting to this? What do I know about you?
• 11:48
  What might influence you to accept what I'm saying?
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  And they have greater difficulty with that sort of thing.
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  So I went through all of the reasons and, and it just kept
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  looking like, Oh my goodness, the traditional reasons don't
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  apply. When it when it became
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  absolutely fantastic was when they were telling us things that
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  they would see and they would see the same things the same
• 12:11
  day. They saw things that hadn't
• 12:14
  happened yet that happened. They knew what people were
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  thinking. And that was part of the
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  telepathy tapes. It was focusing on.
• 12:21
  She calls it the mind reading aspect.
• 12:24
  You know of of that company's autism.
• 12:27
  I understand that a different way.
• 12:29
  One woman reached out to me and said, I have to tell you this
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  story. I'm a special.
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  I was a special education instructor.
• 12:38
  She said I have children in my class.
• 12:40
  Many of them had autism. They didn't speak.
• 12:42
  She said there was 1 little boy. I never heard him say a word
• 12:46
  until one day. And she was grieving.
• 12:48
  Her husband had passed a while before and she was thinking
• 12:52
  about her husband, her name, and I don't recall her name, if her
• 12:55
  name was Susan. He called her Susie.
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  He was the only one who referred to her as that.
• 13:01
  And she said, Joe, one day this boy walked up to me.
• 13:05
  He'd never made eye contact with me.
• 13:07
  He suddenly looked me square in the eye and smiled and he put
• 13:11
  his hands on my face and he said to me, it's going to be OK,
• 13:15
  Susie. And then he removed his hands
• 13:19
  and walked away and went back to being with his more customary
• 13:23
  autistic behavior. And she said, I'll never forget
• 13:27
  that. And and nobody knew the name
• 13:29
  Susie except my husband. So these stories are all over
• 13:32
  the place that that's what drew me into this.
• 13:37
  Once I found out about the spiritual dimension part of it
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  that tipped me toward, we were talking about the Telepathy
• 13:43
  tapes that opened the door to my being invited on the Telepathy
• 13:47
  tapes on a few episodes. And then from there this world
• 13:52
  is exposed. It has exploded.
• 13:54
  So I, I wrote the decoding Cody book to explain what's the
• 13:58
  process? How did all this happen?
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  What, why do why do we know this we think is reliable and what
• 14:05
  are they seeing? How do they describe the
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  spiritual world? So that that's kind of what
• 14:10
  opened the door. I have so many questions and I'm
• 14:12
  sure people listening do too. So first of all, with the
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  telepathy tapes, did they include?
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  No. Now the the, the, the, the woman
• 14:24
  doing the telepathy tips a very talented filmmaker.
• 14:27
  Yes, she is. I have high regard for her.
• 14:30
  She was more interested in a story.
• 14:33
  She was talking about combating a a materialist bias in the
• 14:37
  world and. Which is a good mission.
• 14:40
  Which is a good mission? That's right.
• 14:42
  To me, it's a first step toward finding our way to God.
• 14:46
  But she was that was her focus. And she had spoken to a lot of
• 14:52
  kids, I believe is more than 100.
• 14:54
  And when I discovered the four kids in my church, I thought,
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  this can't be happening just here.
• 15:01
  So I went online. I started looking and I found
• 15:04
  here's a mom who wrote about her son or daughter.
• 15:07
  Here's another, here's another. I started reaching out to them
• 15:11
  and they were all having the same experience.
• 15:13
  They introduced me to a support group on Facebook.
• 15:17
  I was on a call with maybe 60 families.
• 15:19
  They were all saying the same thing.
• 15:21
  Can you help us understand this? They all talk about angels and
• 15:25
  they seem to know each other somehow.
• 15:27
  So as I dove into that world, one of them reached out to the
• 15:30
  filmmaker and said, oh, you might want to talk to Joe.
• 15:33
  He's exploring this. So when we spoke, she had me go
• 15:39
  into the into the science of the academic studies on this because
• 15:46
  going back to the 1990's, the concept of spelling took a hit.
• 15:51
  There was some ways things were done that caused people to
• 15:54
  question it and that still gets repeated sometimes.
• 15:57
  Oh, Joe, don't you know spelling is outdated and and that and a
• 16:02
  lot of people are acting frankly an old information.
• 16:06
  There are about 40 or so negative studies in the 1990s,
• 16:10
  particularly over one form of spelling where a facilitator
• 16:14
  held the spellers hand as they spelled.
• 16:17
  So if you watch that, there's obviously some concern whose
• 16:21
  hand is moving to the letter. That's that's a legitimate
• 16:24
  concern. The newer forms of spelling,
• 16:27
  there's no touches, strict protocols, even though touching
• 16:31
  is easier because it helps the speller get a sense that their
• 16:33
  hand is there. They lose a sense of their limbs
• 16:36
  at times. And so since maybe 2000, there
• 16:41
  are more than 100 positive studies out of places like
• 16:46
  University of Virginia, Department of Psychiatry, Boston
• 16:49
  University. UC Berkeley is a leader in this.
• 16:52
  They're actually admitting people with non speaking autism
• 16:56
  into programs now. But for as far as the Telepathy
• 16:59
  Tapes is concerned, she did not include a lot of the content
• 17:03
  that you had to share about the spiritual realm.
• 17:05
  That wasn't the agenda of the film, which is fair.
• 17:08
  She can choose what she wants to do.
• 17:10
  But this information about the spiritual realm that people with
• 17:14
  non speaking autism have is really, I mean, it's not just
• 17:18
  fascinating, it's it's I think revelatory.
• 17:20
  Very few people are even aware of this, which is why your book
• 17:22
  is so important. And there should be Telepathy
• 17:25
  Tapes Part 2, you know, or call it something different.
• 17:28
  It's not telepathy right About the spiritual realm at work with
• 17:31
  these precious human beings. That was not her perspective.
• 17:35
  None of the spiritual content I talked about made it on, but she
• 17:40
  was very interested in the science.
• 17:42
  And I apologize for the rabbit trail on the academic studies.
• 17:45
  It's just because there may be listeners who say, oh, Joe,
• 17:48
  don't you know, spelling was discredited 40 years ago.
• 17:52
  It's important people. It was important enough that I
• 17:54
  included an appendix summarizing studies because if this is not
• 17:58
  reliable, what are we dealing with?
• 18:00
  So Kai ignored that aspect of it and took more of my comments on
• 18:07
  the science and some of the things I've seen in the, you
• 18:11
  know, some of the experiences we've had spelling.
• 18:14
  And then when the telepathy tapes hit number one in the
• 18:17
  world passing Joe Rogan, all of a sudden my phone was ringing
• 18:21
  off the hook from, you know, more Christian oriented podcast.
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  So what's so incredible is almost 3,000,000 kids with non
• 20:15
  speaking autism in the United States alone.
• 20:18
  It's an it's a, it's a tremendous amount of people and
• 20:20
  many of these kids when they are sort of assessed as they get
• 20:25
  older, you mentioned one, I think you mentioned Cody.
• 20:27
  This was before we started filming.
• 20:29
  So you can share the story again that he was basically said, no,
• 20:32
  he's, he's retarded was the word that was slapped on him.
• 20:34
  It's not even worth he doesn't even have an IQ worth measuring.
• 20:37
  Can you tell that story about how these kids are seen by the
• 20:40
  by the professionals? Yeah, and it's funny, I was, I
• 20:42
  was emailing with people this morning about that.
• 20:46
  A woman was telling me, they tell me my son has an IQ of 40
• 20:50
  and I don't understand it. IQ tests requires usually fine
• 20:56
  motor coordination. So IQ tests are not going to
• 20:59
  necessarily accurately capture somebody's intelligence if they
• 21:04
  have physical limitations. And I'll give you, you know, a
• 21:10
  ridiculous example. Take the physicist Stephen
• 21:13
  Hawking, when he was alive in the end of his life and he had
• 21:17
  ALS, and he could only communicate on the device.
• 21:19
  And that became increasingly difficult if nobody, if you had
• 21:24
  somebody who didn't know Stephen Hawking, never met him, knew
• 21:26
  nothing about him. And they walked up to him and
• 21:29
  said, hi, how are you today? And he just smiled and nodded
• 21:32
  his head and didn't look at them.
• 21:35
  There's a bias in this that might kick in.
• 21:37
  They might say, oh, he doesn't understand anything.
• 21:39
  He's unintelligent. Meanwhile, Hawking is is
• 21:42
  thinking about black holes and mysteries of the universe.
• 21:45
  So there there is a natural bias that kicks in when people do not
• 21:49
  speak in familiar ways or they're say, seem to be unable
• 21:53
  to communicate. So we see that with it, For
• 21:56
  example, a baby, the baby's not answering this doesn't have
• 21:59
  speech yet. So we're OK.
• 22:00
  There's not intellectual development yet, but it's tragic
• 22:04
  when we assume that about people who are there.
• 22:08
  And so that's what happened to Cody.
• 22:10
  The the person testing him said he's, you know, he's mentally
• 22:15
  retarded. There's no reason to carry on
• 22:17
  the test. How old was he?
• 22:18
  He might have been 10 or 12 I think something like.
• 22:23
  That years old and he's being assessed and they said why even
• 22:25
  bother finishing the test? He's retarded.
• 22:27
  Right. And again, those kinds of
• 22:29
  stories are common. So was he given?
• 22:31
  Was Cody given an education? Barely, you know, he went to
• 22:36
  special programs. The focus was on a type of
• 22:40
  therapy that's more common for autism, where there's rote
• 22:45
  learning and repeating. To improve the fine motor.
• 22:49
  Yeah, well, it works on flying motor skills, but they're just
• 22:52
  trying to get them to do simple commands.
• 22:55
  And meanwhile I've now I, I, I mean, between books with
• 22:59
  accounts and credible volume of emails and comments from
• 23:04
  podcasts and meeting people in Zoom calls, it's well in the
• 23:08
  hundreds. These stories are very common
• 23:11
  that they're saying my son is is not only bright, he's writing
• 23:15
  about this. They write poetry.
• 23:18
  You know, there's I have one book at home.
• 23:21
  The name is escaping me. Something among us.
• 23:25
  It's about 50 accounts of people with non speaking autism written
• 23:29
  off who are now writing plays, going to university.
• 23:35
  You know, they're authors. They're they're doing all kinds
• 23:38
  of things. And the point is they were
• 23:40
  written off and new University of Virginia concluded recently
• 23:46
  that these individuals have highly higher language skills
• 23:52
  than we ever knew. And we have to keep looking into
• 23:56
  this and testing it because, you know, we, we've not appreciated
• 24:02
  them and we've done them a disservice.
• 24:04
  So these kids are often sent to the special needs programs and
• 24:08
  they're put in front of kids cartoons, I've heard.
• 24:10
  Sometimes kid cartoons sometimes just wrote things.
• 24:13
  Just keep doing this. Assemble these things together
• 24:17
  and take them apart. And are they kind of talked down
• 24:19
  to, I'm going to guess by adults or other people who think
• 24:23
  they're, they're handicapped? Yes.
• 24:25
  So I need to kind of talk to them almost like a little kid or
• 24:27
  even a baby because they don't really understand.
• 24:30
  Me and look. And in fairness, I did the same
• 24:33
  thing. I talked for years.
• 24:36
  I talked to Cody as if he had very little understanding.
• 24:40
  I greeted them with silly fist bumps and all that.
• 24:43
  I went to Cody to say, Cody, I am so sorry.
• 24:45
  I had no idea what was in you all these years.
• 24:48
  And the other interesting thing is many of these spellers have
• 24:52
  said variations, almost all of them that I've heard, I've said
• 24:55
  variations of something like, it's OK, you had no way to know.
• 25:00
  They're they, they tend to be extremely empathetic, forgiving,
• 25:04
  gracious, and they're really speaking.
• 25:08
  If somebody says, and I apologize if we keep coming back
• 25:11
  to this, how do you know that's really them spelling?
• 25:14
  If they have somebody helping them, facilitating, maybe
• 25:17
  they're planting thoughts. Look at a University of Virginia
• 25:21
  study from 2025 where they said, OK, let's hit, let's test
• 25:25
  something. When they spell.
• 25:27
  Let's we'll track eye movement and hand movement.
• 25:30
  We'll see. Does the I go to the letter
• 25:32
  first or the hand? If it's if the hand is moving,
• 25:36
  it could be there could be something else.
• 25:38
  If it's the eye, it's conscious. And they proved overwhelmingly
• 25:42
  the I goes to the letter, the hand goes and the spelling is
• 25:47
  legitimate. Now it's in varying degrees for
• 25:49
  people. Initially they learned by just
• 25:52
  having lessons and repeating things from the lesson.
• 25:56
  Then in time, the goal is we hope to get them open, which
• 26:00
  means they start communicating. And once that happens and, and
• 26:06
  you're, you find out what they're thinking, that's when
• 26:08
  there's so much emotion. Cody's story, I mentioned it in
• 26:12
  his breakthrough is there was a lesson about I believe was Wyatt
• 26:16
  Earp. And there was a question from
• 26:18
  the lesson that had just been read to him about Wyatt Earp's
• 26:22
  girlfriend. And she, she was addicted to a
• 26:25
  pain medication, loud numb that was common at that time.
• 26:29
  And the question was asked about it and Cody responded to it and
• 26:33
  then added on his own drugs are a problem in this country.
• 26:39
  And then then went on to say they come over the border, the
• 26:42
  cartel brings them in. We need better border.
• 26:46
  Listening to Fox News in the background.
• 26:47
  I think so. We need better border security.
• 26:50
  He has political opinions, yeah. Well, it's interesting because
• 26:54
  how I think it's also a testament to how much these
• 26:57
  children and adults, because many of these are autistic
• 27:00
  adults now, are picking up from their environment, even though
• 27:03
  nobody bothered to directly tell them, teach them, engage them on
• 27:06
  these matters. They didn't have any formal
• 27:07
  education on these matters, but they're just absorbing it.
• 27:10
  You said something earlier that was so fascinating before we
• 27:12
  started filming. I want you to speak to this as
• 27:14
  well, that some of these children, you mentioned, one
• 27:17
  from an orphanage, I think in Eastern Europe, some of these
• 27:21
  children were never taught to spell.
• 27:25
  And yet somehow they knew how to spell when they started being,
• 27:29
  when they were being given the opportunity for the first time
• 27:31
  to practice being a speller using this tech, you know,
• 27:33
  effectively a technology of sorts to be able to communicate.
• 27:36
  Yeah, that would be Zahari. And so I've, I've, I finally met
• 27:41
  him in person and his mom, we have been texting and
• 27:43
  communicating. I was in Florida for a
• 27:46
  conference and she came and a few other moms and spellers came
• 27:50
  and they showed people there what spelling look like.
• 27:52
  So Harry was put into a Bulgarian orphanage.
• 27:56
  His autism, and he's blind and he was adopted and I'm not going
• 28:01
  to recall exactly. It might have been 10 or 11
• 28:04
  years of age. Could be a little off on that.
• 28:06
  There's a wonderful, loving American family.
• 28:09
  But the orphanage was a miserable place.
• 28:12
  He was left alone. There wasn't enough food.
• 28:15
  He still has kind of food issues.
• 28:18
  They would eat paint chips or anything that they could find.
• 28:22
  And Zahari and his mom sent me his spelling.
• 28:25
  Zahari is he's 18 now. He's he's close to brilliant.
• 28:30
  He writes all kinds of things. What it was like, what the
• 28:33
  experience was like, how sometimes he would cry and he
• 28:37
  was left alone. And now other other spellers
• 28:42
  learn language skills because we're surrounded by words.
• 28:46
  We live in a print rich environment.
• 28:48
  Most of the day you can stop and look around.
• 28:50
  You'll see words all around you. They picked them up just from
• 28:54
  life experience. Zaharie is blind and so he has a
• 29:01
  Braille activated system and I'm I'm kind of there's so many of
• 29:07
  these. I don't always recall all the
• 29:08
  details for one or another, but this is fascinating too because
• 29:13
  studies show that when a body is deprived of one sense or even
• 29:17
  more than one sense, the brain actually rewires to make the
• 29:21
  other senses more acute. If you've ever tried to feel
• 29:25
  Braille numbers, it's hard to detect anything.
• 29:28
  I can't make them out, but but people who are blind seem to
• 29:32
  have an have extra enhanced abilities to maybe hear more
• 29:38
  acutely or feel so as a Harriet communicates that way, which is
• 29:44
  also interesting and a subject we'll we'll come to later, I'm
• 29:46
  sure. Why is it they see the spiritual
• 29:49
  world and I've heard from professors in universities and
• 29:53
  others in psychologist speculating that the the autism,
• 30:00
  the autism causing the sort of the disconnect between the body
• 30:04
  and the brain might be causing the brain or some part of the
• 30:09
  person to just be more open and more sensitive to a a kind of a
• 30:14
  dimension of energy. I hate to use a term like that.
• 30:17
  Sounds sort of vague that the rest of us, you know, don't see.
• 30:22
  So when it comes to autistic behavior, behavior that's more
• 30:26
  associated, I should say, with people deeper on the spectrum or
• 30:28
  more onto the spectrum we met. You mentioned earlier, you know,
• 30:32
  obviously many of our non speaking are not able to speak
• 30:34
  the way you and I speak. They might be able to say a word
• 30:36
  or a phrase repeatedly. There's also impulse control,
• 30:39
  right? Yes, very much.
• 30:41
  And that is often seen as it felt experience is very
• 30:45
  frustrating. I think for caretakers are
• 30:48
  concerning or you know, if you're not familiar with it,
• 30:50
  it's also unusual. You're like, what do I do with
• 30:53
  this situation? And I think that also seems to
• 30:58
  indicate for people that this person doesn't have a lot of
• 31:00
  intelligence because they're acting so unusually, right?
• 31:05
  What is your take on those sorts of behaviors now that you
• 31:09
  understand the depth behind the large majority and maybe all of
• 31:15
  the children and people who are non speaking who have non
• 31:18
  speaking autism? I'm still an outsider.
• 31:22
  I'm, I'm still trying to read and learn.
• 31:24
  I'm evaluating experts who don't always agree.
• 31:27
  I'm just trying to summarize that world from what I'm seeing,
• 31:30
  what I'm reading. I, I don't consider myself an
• 31:33
  expert by any means. And but there are times I've
• 31:37
  heard spellers say you don't understand.
• 31:40
  I, I can't help this. I can't control it.
• 31:43
  There was a time. Like their body is not connected
• 31:46
  with the commands of their mind, so they may be disciplined for
• 31:50
  jumping on the couch or throwing a book or even physically
• 31:54
  manhandling A sibling or something, but they did not have
• 31:57
  the power to not do it. That's what they tell me.
• 32:00
  And I've read more accounts that indicate that's often the case.
• 32:04
  And I'm I'm often telling parents when they say, Oh my
• 32:08
  goodness, I was discipline. Well, we don't always know.
• 32:11
  They're, they're very forgiving. Again, they they'll say, don't
• 32:16
  worry, Mom, Dad, you had no way to know that.
• 32:19
  But but it, it can look like disobedience.
• 32:23
  I kind of went into that a little bit in Cody's story.
• 32:27
  And yeah. And there are times they're just
• 32:29
  impulses. You know, I there are times I
• 32:32
  was with Elsa at a conference and she was spelling and she'll
• 32:36
  just suddenly stop and she'll start stroking my beard.
• 32:39
  Or I've been with other spellers in person.
• 32:42
  They'll stop and they'll do something and I'll ask them, did
• 32:45
  that mean something or was it a compulsion?
• 32:47
  It was just a compulsion. Tourette's.
• 32:49
  Almost. Yeah, who knows, right?
• 32:53
  Maybe there are similarities? So in the case of Cody, you said
• 32:57
  there's an example of in the book.
• 32:59
  Can you share that about him being out of not able to control
• 33:02
  his body? Yeah, Cody went through, I mean,
• 33:06
  a number of those things. Cody went through a time where
• 33:09
  he he was physically hurting, you know, like his, he would be
• 33:13
  rough with people. He could hurt people.
• 33:16
  And he, you know, he's told us afterward he hated that time.
• 33:20
  And so I've heard from families who say, you know, it seems like
• 33:24
  my kid will just, he'll grab somebody, grab their arm and,
• 33:29
  and, and now those can be frightening for right for
• 33:31
  families. I've heard always siblings are
• 33:34
  afraid of him. The from what I've seen, it
• 33:37
  tends to be worse during puberty and then it tends to settle
• 33:43
  down. A lot of the spells I know once
• 33:44
  they hit 1920, they're past those behaviors.
• 33:49
  So it could just be the hormonal influence, you know, it just
• 33:53
  exacerbates the body's inability to control itself.
• 33:57
  And they get frustrated and expresses itself different ways.
• 34:01
  But I've had a good number of them say, I remember this time I
• 34:04
  was doing this right, this kind of behavior.
• 34:06
  This is sort of, you know, sounds a little coarse and I
• 34:11
  apologize for it, but this is real life.
• 34:14
  And none of them go through stages where they smear feces.
• 34:19
  I've had a surprising number of parents tell me about that stage
• 34:23
  and life was following him around and cleaning up.
• 34:26
  And so there are behaviors that no, obviously nobody wants to
• 34:30
  see and you can reach conclusions on that basis.
• 34:35
  So they they're, they can tend to be out of control seemingly
• 34:39
  in different ways. But it was interesting.
• 34:41
  One person wrote to me and said, I mentioned in the book that
• 34:44
  Cody, you know, was asked one time, did you ever see angels
• 34:49
  with your mom? Yes.
• 34:51
  During that time when I was hurting her, I was so glad there
• 34:53
  was an Angel protecting her. And I've got people right and
• 34:57
  say, oh, my goodness, I feel like there was an Angel
• 34:59
  protecting me too through that time.
• 35:01
  So. Protecting the mom from being
• 35:03
  harmed by the child when they were acting out.
• 35:06
  Yeah, Yeah. And the child later reported via
• 35:09
  spelling that they saw an Angel accompanying their mother when
• 35:13
  their body was trying to, you know, act violently towards the
• 35:16
  mother, even though their heart or their will is not intending
• 35:19
  that violence. I hear stories like that too.
• 35:23
  That's absolutely amazing. Is there anything else you can
• 35:25
  share before we get into the depth of what these people with
• 35:29
  autism can see and hear and smell, even in the spiritual
• 35:32
  realm? Is there anything else that
• 35:33
  you've heard shared by spellers about their behavior of being
• 35:39
  maybe violent or acting out, you know, that is considered kind of
• 35:42
  scary or concerning behavior for families where they
• 35:45
  retroactively talk about their own behavior, if that makes
• 35:48
  sense. Yeah, it's just more they want
• 35:50
  people to know that they can't control their bodies at times.
• 35:54
  It's not always going to be destructive behavior.
• 35:57
  It might just be getting up and pacing back and forth.
• 36:01
  Some of them will just wander away.
• 36:03
  You've got to, you know, make sure they're in a safe area.
• 36:07
  So there's a lot of forms of it, a lot of manifestations.
• 36:12
  I, I would just say that one thing they all say about those
• 36:18
  times and those behaviors, I shouldn't say all.
• 36:21
  It's a bad habit. What many of them have said is
• 36:25
  we were so appreciative. We knew you loved us.
• 36:27
  We were so appreciative that you understood that wasn't me.
• 36:31
  I I couldn't help that which I would say one of the most
• 36:36
  important lessons for me and all this has been to remember every
• 36:41
  human being is an image bearer of God.
• 36:44
  And you know, our Lord tells us that what we've done for the
• 36:49
  least of these we've done for him.
• 36:52
  So you think of some of the writings and Scripture where you
• 36:56
  know, you might see, you know, the apostle Paul saying that God
• 37:03
  uses the foolish things of the world to confound the wise or
• 37:08
  talking. You know as much in Scripture
• 37:10
  about how in weakness God is strong.
• 37:12
  So much of the way God works is paradoxical.
• 37:15
  If you want to be great, you become the servant of all.
• 37:18
  The first will be last, the last will be first.
• 37:21
  And I love how the Lord has a special love for children.
• 37:26
  Don't ever send these away. You know, he's got to tell the
• 37:29
  apostles, don't ever send these away.
• 37:31
  They're angels. Behold the face of my Father.
• 37:33
  And he wants to take them in his arms and bless them.
• 37:36
  There's something special about that.
• 37:39
  He even says in the Gospel of Luke and chapter 10.
• 37:42
  I thank you Father. You've concealed these things
• 37:45
  from people who are wise in their own eyes and reveal them
• 37:49
  to children, I guess we might say those who have childlike
• 37:52
  faith as well. So I think the way we treat
• 37:55
  people whom the world ignores seems to be a very high interest
• 38:02
  and concern to our creator. And of course, we share pro-life
• 38:06
  views and that's, you know, that's of course an important
• 38:10
  part of what we believe. You know, when we when we go to
• 38:13
  defend babies and, and even, you know, try to help women to
• 38:16
  understand sometimes the difficult choices are being
• 38:19
  called to make. So that's been an important
• 38:21
  lesson for me. See, everybody is an image
• 38:24
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  year with Cozy Earth. One of the things you mentioned
• 40:01
  earlier too, when we were talking before we started
• 40:04
  filming was the dehumanizing treatments that some of the
• 40:09
  children with autism experience. Can you share more about that?
• 40:14
  Yeah. And I, I think we're where we
• 40:17
  don't have understanding of, of issues.
• 40:22
  It seems to be unfortunately a part of human history that we,
• 40:26
  we do things in ways that dehumanize people.
• 40:30
  You know, electric shock therapy and lobotomies and whatever the,
• 40:37
  the, the, the way that, you know, sort of serious autism was
• 40:47
  dealt with, you know, for a long time was the traditional ways
• 40:51
  where you kept somebody medicated and you kept them, you
• 40:55
  know, drugged up because they're going to be calmer.
• 40:58
  They're not going to be disruptive or breaking things or
• 41:01
  running around yelling. So that that there was a focus
• 41:05
  on something like that. And maybe I'm not disputing
• 41:08
  there might be some who benefited from types of
• 41:10
  medication. But once you open that door a
• 41:12
  little bit, it's easy to over prescribe and just say, oh, just
• 41:16
  keep them calm. If they're not yelling, we're
• 41:17
  all getting along better. And then there were other types
• 41:20
  of treatment that were just more rote, kind of forcing the the,
• 41:25
  you know, usually it was kids and to just keep repeating these
• 41:29
  actions. They were, there was sort of
• 41:33
  simplistic tasks that just developed more repeat, repeated
• 41:38
  motion to try to help them get something down.
• 41:41
  There was not really an attempt to find the person inside to
• 41:44
  communicate. An important theme that I, you
• 41:48
  know, go into repeatedly in the book is we're always supposed to
• 41:51
  assume competence, and there was not really anyone assuming
• 41:56
  competence. It was just more sort of rote
• 41:59
  technique. The wonderful thing about
• 42:01
  spelling and other forms of what they call AAC, it's other, it's
• 42:06
  it's augmented alternative communications could be
• 42:10
  keyboards, spelling, there's other ways that, you know,
• 42:14
  people communicate. The wonderful thing about those
• 42:17
  this is more of an effort, more of a focus on finding the person
• 42:21
  inside and helping that person to be seen and understood and
• 42:25
  appreciated for the unique person whom God made them to be.
• 42:30
  Do you think part of it too is we move at such a hyper
• 42:34
  lightspeed pace in modern in the modern world, you know, we can
• 42:39
  fire off a text that's a paragraph long in seconds,
• 42:42
  right? So we can communicate so quickly
• 42:45
  today and with millions of people via social media or you
• 42:48
  know, the anybody can kind of make a platform anyway.
• 42:51
  So we have this, I think threshold of patients that is
• 42:56
  now much lower than it used to be.
• 42:58
  We don't have the patients maybe we had historically and having
• 43:00
  it been holding a conversation and to have a conversation with
• 43:05
  someone who's a speller, I'm going to guess from what you've
• 43:08
  shared, I've never done, it takes a lot longer than your
• 43:11
  average conversation. They're tediously, because they
• 43:14
  don't have the fine motor skills.
• 43:15
  They're tediously taking the time to spell letter by letter
• 43:19
  by letter, a conversation, as opposed to just whatever I'm
• 43:22
  doing right now with you in this long thing that I'm saying right
• 43:25
  now. Yeah, I think you're exactly
• 43:26
  right. And when you read that, I record
• 43:29
  a lot of the conversations, particularly where Cody or
• 43:32
  others are describing the spiritual world or angels or
• 43:36
  what it looks like when angels and demons fight or they're
• 43:38
  fascinating. But you might read through a
• 43:40
  page or two of dialogue in a matter of a minute.
• 43:44
  Those are often the product of 3045 minutes.
• 43:49
  Just imagine my communicating at this rate.
• 43:52
  I'm OK. I'm going to say hi.
• 43:54
  Hi Lila HILI. So you can see how long it
• 44:03
  takes. And it's it's, it's tiring for
• 44:07
  most of them as well. It's common that the end of
• 44:11
  30-40 minutes, however long we're going, they'll say I need
• 44:16
  to stop, I'm exhausted. And they're they're disciplining
• 44:20
  the brain to try to get it to force the body to do something,
• 44:24
  but the body is resisting and fighting the male, Cody says.
• 44:27
  I'm at war with my body all the time.
• 44:30
  So that's, that's a part of it, you know, as well.
• 44:33
  Have you discovered through spelling or through the stories
• 44:37
  of all the hundreds of people you've heard from now about
• 44:39
  this, about what is the preferred sort of environmental
• 44:44
  environmental inputs, I guess, for a person with non speaking
• 44:50
  autism? Meaning, do they want you to put
• 44:52
  them in front of a Ken Burns 9 hour documentary?
• 44:55
  You know, like what what do you think they would want as opposed
• 44:57
  to don't put me in front of Barney.
• 44:58
  I'm really smart. Actually, I like World War 2,
• 45:00
  like the one gentleman. I don't know which one that was.
• 45:02
  That was Cody. That was Cody.
• 45:04
  That one was Cody too. Like put me in front of Ken
• 45:06
  Burns. The what is it called the World
• 45:07
  War Fascinating documentary, right?
• 45:09
  Let me just sit here and I'll watch it.
• 45:11
  I mean, is that I know that's a. The answer to that is it's as
• 45:16
  individualized as there's the number of people you have.
• 45:20
  It's very, you know, one person with autism told me one time, if
• 45:24
  you've met one person with autism, you've met one person
• 45:27
  with autism. So I find it difficult to
• 45:31
  generalize with that. Even with something like a
• 45:35
  movie, there might be times Cody or others will say I can sit and
• 45:41
  I can watch this movie, and then other times they just can't.
• 45:44
  It's not comfortable. And then there were times that
• 45:46
  they're taking things in and we don't know it, his family said.
• 45:50
  You know, we were watching whatever a movie and Cody got up
• 45:54
  and walked around and was in the back looking at the wall.
• 45:57
  But later he would say that was a great movie.
• 46:00
  I like this part. So he's taking it in, but his
• 46:03
  body is just rebelling even while his mind is trying to
• 46:07
  focus on it. And then this is not.
• 46:10
  But it's not something sort of strictly observed or written
• 46:16
  about a lot. But that is, it feels to me like
• 46:20
  they're able to see sometimes more than the eye contact might
• 46:25
  indicate. What does that mean?
• 46:27
  So you and I are speaking now we're making eye contact.
• 46:32
  It's harder for them to make eye contact if I'm talking to you.
• 46:36
  But as I'm talking to you, I'm like this.
• 46:41
  You don't think I'm seeing you. It feels to me like whether it's
• 46:46
  peripheral vision or whatever it is, they seem to take in more
• 46:51
  than I'm aware of that they're, they're seeing more than I
• 46:55
  understand. And I don't know why or how that
• 46:57
  would be. There's no studies about that.
• 47:00
  That's just my own kind of observation that I'll hear
• 47:03
  somebody say, oh, I like this and I might have been there for
• 47:06
  part of it and felt like you weren't even looking at that.
• 47:10
  So there might be some kind of dynamic with that as well.
• 47:13
  The soul is aware, even if the body seems disengaged.
• 47:18
  Yeah, You know, it's a fascinating thing.
• 47:21
  I I'm intrigued by the overlap between a lot of what I've seen
• 47:26
  with people with autism describing for me even of the
• 47:29
  spirit world of meeting the Lord, of experiences, seeing
• 47:35
  aspects of heaven or going to a place they call the hill.
• 47:38
  I'm intrigued with that and what you hear described in near death
• 47:42
  experiences. I've spoken with the authors of
• 47:45
  a few NDE books and we're just, we're still trying to piece
• 47:49
  these things together. But just for example, one author
• 47:54
  was telling me he has talked to people with Ndes who are legally
• 48:00
  blunt who were born blind. So they've never seen anything.
• 48:04
  But in their NDE, the typical story is they feel themselves
• 48:08
  floating above their body. There's a sense of great peace.
• 48:12
  They may be light, they're looking down and they're seeing
• 48:16
  their body. How are they seeing if they've
• 48:18
  never seen anything? Well, because the blindness is,
• 48:22
  is a product of the physical body, but there's something
• 48:25
  about their spirit, soul, whatever the right word is that
• 48:29
  they're seeing. And then they can come back
• 48:31
  later and say, oh, I, I was laying there flat and, and
• 48:35
  they're able to describe things that are unlike any experience
• 48:38
  they've ever had. So some of these things may be
• 48:41
  getting them to those really tricky, interesting
• 48:45
  philosophical theological crevices where we're wondering,
• 48:50
  are we talking about the spirit, the soul?
• 48:52
  How do those work? We're going to go next or in a
• 48:57
  moment to the really incredible supernatural awareness, I'm
• 49:01
  going to call it, of the spellers that you document in
• 49:05
  your book. Before that, though, for those
• 49:08
  who are not familiar with Telepathy Tapes, because I do
• 49:11
  think that this is like the, this is the, you know what it
• 49:16
  what we call the pinnacle really of what could have been
• 49:18
  included, right? Not again, just the film or just
• 49:20
  the the project. But what would you say was the
• 49:23
  most, in your view, the most incredible findings in telepathy
• 49:28
  tapes? Can you share that with folks
• 49:30
  before we get into these even more incredible findings in?
• 49:33
  Your book and, and I know a good number of the spellers whom
• 49:37
  she's interviewed. And it's interesting because
• 49:40
  when I've spoken to those same spellers, they talk about God.
• 49:43
  They're, they're, they love to share the message of the gospel.
• 49:48
  What the telepathy tapes focused on was the the the apparent mind
• 49:57
  reading between often a parent and a child.
• 50:01
  The the the children have have said, and I'm saying children
• 50:06
  mean necessarily little kids, but a child to a parent that
• 50:11
  it's easier for them to pick up thoughts if there was somebody
• 50:15
  whom they love and trust. That kind of bond is very
• 50:20
  important. And so the Telepathy Tapes had,
• 50:24
  you know, you know, sessions where some of the people with
• 50:28
  autism would be looking one way and they set up walls and the
• 50:32
  cameramen would show somebody something, a chord or whatever
• 50:36
  it was, and they knew what it was.
• 50:39
  They didn't know until maybe their parent, their mother,
• 50:44
  typically looked at it. And then they were able to say,
• 50:47
  oh, this is that. So they wouldn't be actually
• 50:50
  physically looking at the object, right?
• 50:52
  But their mother would look at the object and then they would
• 50:55
  be able to see the object. Or know what it was they're
• 50:58
  picking without physically picking up the mother's
• 51:01
  thoughts. Now this.
• 51:02
  What do you make of that that's so incredible?
• 51:04
  I think it's it sounds incredible.
• 51:06
  I think it's some ways it's not as strange as we think.
• 51:09
  And I'll say for this reason, if I'm when I've had to speak about
• 51:14
  this in crowds, if I'll ask people, OK, how many of you have
• 51:17
  had the experience? There's something you can't
• 51:20
  figure out. The phone rings.
• 51:22
  You think of Uncle Bill, whom you've not spoken with in a
• 51:26
  year, and it's Uncle Bill. How many of you have had that
• 51:28
  kind of experience? Virtually every hand in the room
• 51:31
  goes up. Some will come up and say, I
• 51:33
  have to tell you this one. And they're amazing stories, but
• 51:36
  they're not normative. So because they're not
• 51:39
  normative, people don't know what to do with them and they
• 51:41
  stuff them away. Now, there's other parts of the
• 51:44
  world. I've been in places in Africa,
• 51:48
  throughout a lot of Asia, where people live a greater awareness
• 51:52
  of the spiritual, of a spiritual dimension, even if it's not a
• 51:55
  Christian dimension. And they routinely think things
• 52:00
  like this are are, you know, happening.
• 52:04
  The Angels. Yeah, or spirits of some sort.
• 52:08
  You know the the the Greek word that's for example, that's
• 52:11
  translated the demon in the scripture, daimon or daimonian
• 52:17
  would just mean a spirit. It it wasn't necessarily an evil
• 52:20
  spirit. Socrates used it of his
• 52:22
  conscience contextually, it became associated with evil
• 52:26
  spirits afterward because every time it's used in the New
• 52:29
  Testament, it's referring to something you know, evil.
• 52:33
  So the there's though this is not as odd as it seems.
• 52:40
  The telepathy tapes had a psychiatrist on and I've gotten
• 52:44
  to know her bed and we've spoken and a very bright woman.
• 52:48
  She taught at Harvard and Johns Hopkins, so she's got great
• 52:52
  academic credentials. And she's been on a campaign to
• 52:56
  say this kind of mind reading is not unusual.
• 53:00
  We know this. This is some aspect of human
• 53:02
  behavior. We ignore it because it seems
• 53:05
  unscientific to us and we should be looking at it more.
• 53:09
  And she said, and I've kind of read up on it somewhat since
• 53:13
  that. Going back to the founding of
• 53:15
  psychotherapy, the two towering figures were Freud, for whom
• 53:19
  everything was explained by sexual impulses, and Carl Gustav
• 53:23
  Jung. And Jung's psychology was
• 53:26
  broader. He got into archetypes and other
• 53:28
  things. Jung absolutely experienced and
• 53:31
  believed. There was mind, you know, I'll
• 53:35
  call it mind reading, just, you know, those kinds of things.
• 53:39
  He wrote one extended studying a guy called Synchronicities.
• 53:44
  He talked about meaningful coincidences and he basically
• 53:48
  said, I see this all the time. A woman had a dream of a scarab
• 53:51
  beetle and told me later I went to her window and then on the
• 53:54
  outside of the window was a scarab beetle.
• 53:56
  So we attribute meaning to these things because they're too far
• 54:00
  fetched to be coincidental. So those kinds of things have
• 54:04
  always existed, but they've been uncomfortable for science when
• 54:08
  we have a materialist bias. So we sort of push those away.
• 54:13
  We say that can't be verified, but those kind of things have
• 54:16
  always been on the edge of, of, you know, I mean, look at some
• 54:20
  of the stories of Saints and some of the miracles and kind of
• 54:24
  the visions and things, right, that we that we accept.
• 54:29
  There's a, there's that kind of feel to it that somebody
• 54:32
  understands or knows something. So it, it in one sense, it
• 54:36
  should be less surprising to us than it is, but because our our
• 54:42
  culture in particular is so infused with materialism, oh, if
• 54:48
  you're getting into a weird stuff, oh, that's, you know,
• 54:52
  science is just this, we discount things that we should
• 54:55
  be open to. And that was the psychiatrist
• 54:58
  perspective in the Telepathy Tapes.
• 55:01
  So it focused more on that and stories about, and these are not
• 55:05
  uncommon and I've seen them as well.
• 55:08
  Billy and Houston says when I go to the Hill, I meet my friend
• 55:12
  Johnny from Miami and somebody's taking the time to finally track
• 55:17
  down Johnny and Miami and he's real and he knows Billy.
• 55:20
  He's real and he knows Billy and Houston.
• 55:23
  That kind of thing happens. You know, Elsa from my church
• 55:26
  and Saharry get together all the time and the spiritual demand
• 55:32
  dimension. They're very fond of each other.
• 55:35
  When they were together with me in Orlando, they just sat next
• 55:39
  to each other and held hands. And, you know, others have even
• 55:44
  said, oh, they're together all the time when they get to a
• 55:46
  place they call the Hill so. I've got to, I've got to ask
• 55:51
  more. And I know you talk about this
• 55:52
  in the book, so we've got to talk about the hill and there's
• 55:54
  so much more. But I, I had one other question
• 55:57
  just to follow up on what you're sharing about the Telepathy
• 55:59
  Tapes. I think in the when you believe
• 56:02
  in the existence of the soul and the supernatural realm and these
• 56:05
  then the angels and the Saints and God in heaven and Jesus and
• 56:09
  the Holy Spirit, then all of a sudden these things are not so
• 56:11
  unusual anymore. But then the next big question
• 56:13
  becomes, OK, what's the proper order of these things?
• 56:16
  Because then you can meddle like with New Age.
• 56:18
  We've had people on the show interviewing them about the New
• 56:20
  Age. You can start meddling and
• 56:22
  playing with it and then you can go a haywire direction if it's
• 56:25
  outside of God's order. And so before we jump into all
• 56:30
  of this, I'm curious how you approached it from the
• 56:34
  perspective you're a pastor, you're a Christian from the
• 56:37
  perspective perspective of God's order for the spiritual realm.
• 56:42
  Right, no, and that's a great question.
• 56:44
  I spent a lot of time in that and I and I, I looked at it.
• 56:48
  So I mean, for me that the tests were a test I would I would
• 56:52
  employ in any situation. You know, how do things align
• 56:57
  with the teachings of the church and Scripture?
• 57:01
  How do things how, how, how, how do I, in my own prayer and
• 57:08
  devotional time, trying to rely on the Holy Spirit leading me?
• 57:13
  What's the sense that I get is the thing that I'm hearing is it
• 57:18
  is it is it glorifying God? Is it elevating the name of
• 57:22
  Jesus or is it elevating self? Is it bringing, you know, we
• 57:26
  reading Galatians about the fruit of the Spirit.
• 57:28
  So we we ask, OK, there are things we're supposed to we want
• 57:31
  to be experiencing peace, Lovejoy.
• 57:33
  Is it promoting those things or is it promoting distrust, you
• 57:39
  know, grievances, hatred, unforgiveness, because we
• 57:42
  understand those things that we're expressly told that those
• 57:45
  things are demonically inspired. The thief comes to steal, kill
• 57:50
  and destroy. Or if one is divisive among you,
• 57:53
  put him out, you know, don't have him in your midst.
• 57:56
  So I I try to look at those kinds of tests and align it with
• 58:00
  scripture in the general understanding of the the greater
• 58:04
  church, you know, with an orthodoxy little O.
• 58:09
  So I've looked at those things. For example, some people have
• 58:11
  started by saying, wait a minute, they hear from angels,
• 58:14
  they talk to angels. That can't be right.
• 58:17
  Well, look at, you know, kind of again, the history of the church
• 58:22
  and Scripture, the word Angel in the New Testament, Angelos come
• 58:28
  means literally messenger. The same same is true for the
• 58:32
  Hebrew word for Angel in the Old Testament.
• 58:34
  That's because they're so commonly bringing messages.
• 58:38
  They came to speak to Elizabeth and they came to speak to Mary
• 58:41
  and they spoke to Zechariah and they, you know, all these angels
• 58:45
  are we speaking, they appear to the affairs of the apostles and
• 58:49
  all these things. So because they're so often
• 58:52
  associated with messages, they they're just given the name
• 58:57
  becomes generically Messenger. Although we know from scripture
• 59:01
  they have other functions they fight.
• 59:03
  I think you wouldn't want to run into Michael, for example.
• 59:08
  You want him on your side. You want to be on his side.
• 59:10
  You wouldn't want to run into him if you're on the other side.
• 59:13
  You want to be on that side. Right, so there are certain
• 59:18
  ideas. OK, we we understand that.
• 59:20
  So for example, you know when say the Apostle Paul says if you
• 59:26
  hear a different gospel, even it's even if it's from an Angel,
• 59:30
  let that be a cursed. AKA Muhammad or Joseph Smith I
• 59:33
  would. Argue.
• 59:34
  But I, I, I think about Matthew 1810, this is going to make me
• 59:38
  probably cry. I, I told you before.
• 59:40
  So I was like, I might start crying here because it's so
• 59:42
  incredible and the implications are so huge.
• 59:44
  But you, you know, this Matthew 1810, see that you do not
• 59:47
  despise any of these little ones.
• 59:50
  For I tell you that in heaven, their angels always see the face
• 59:53
  of my Father who is in heaven. Cody has an Angel.
• 59:57
  I believe you have an Angel. I believe we all have a
• 59:58
  guardian. I often have one.
• 1:00:00
  Cody told me that. Oh, he often has.
• 1:00:02
  Often. But sometimes.
• 1:00:04
  I was very glad to hear that. But then Cody says sometimes
• 1:00:07
  he's not with you. Not a heart, he knows if there
• 1:00:09
  are a few people in particular, his spelling facilitator always
• 1:00:12
  has at least one Angel. Always.
• 1:00:15
  You got to get that Angel in line.
• 1:00:16
  Be like Angel. I want you always with me.
• 1:00:18
  Yeah, yeah. Well, we've kind of joked I've
• 1:00:20
  been with with her and her husband and we say if we ever go
• 1:00:24
  someplace dangerous, we want you in the front because you always
• 1:00:27
  have an Angel. And there are times she said
• 1:00:29
  multiple angels. There are times they saw the
• 1:00:31
  room so filled with angels there were too many to count.
• 1:00:34
  I pray our angels are here. But just raise such an important
• 1:00:37
  question. I think it'd be a concern for
• 1:00:39
  people. I think the best way to
• 1:00:42
  understand this is God creates the Satan in Hebrew, Hasatan
• 1:00:49
  will be the adversary. Satan is incapable of creation.
• 1:00:53
  He's a created being evil by definition is a corruption of
• 1:00:58
  what God made for good. So God gives us things for good.
• 1:01:03
  The distortion of it becomes the evil.
• 1:01:06
  So I, I think what we have to look at is other things that
• 1:01:10
  God's given us that will say, OK, we're, we're not going to
• 1:01:14
  throw away everything, but we're going to use caution.
• 1:01:17
  So for example, you know, we read the heavens declare the
• 1:01:22
  glory of our God. The Magi knew the time of the
• 1:01:26
  visitation of Messiah by the stars in the heaven.
• 1:01:30
  They then they were led by a store, right?
• 1:01:32
  But the perversion of that would become astrology.
• 1:01:36
  Then you get into new age stuff. I'm going to do your chart.
• 1:01:39
  I'm going to predict your future and all of that.
• 1:01:42
  So it takes something that God might have given in a limited
• 1:01:45
  way or limited for a limited purpose.
• 1:01:48
  And then man tries to expand on it and turns it into a way if it
• 1:01:53
  controls people, controls thinking.
• 1:01:56
  So we, we watch for those kinds of things.
• 1:01:59
  I applied those tests all the time.
• 1:02:02
  I examined everything that they said.
• 1:02:05
  One of the most encouraging things to me in terms of
• 1:02:08
  evaluating these things was how often spellers said to me or
• 1:02:14
  said to others. Don't ask me that question.
• 1:02:18
  I'm not allowed to speak about it.
• 1:02:19
  You need to pray, read the Scripture and ask God.
• 1:02:24
  How often would that happen? Commonly.
• 1:02:26
  So they would try to peer into the spiritual realm and ask
• 1:02:29
  questions about if. People came to that, like you
• 1:02:32
  said, Oh, you know, Cody, can you tell me anything about this
• 1:02:35
  coming up? What?
• 1:02:35
  Does my Angel look like, or I mean what kind of what was an
• 1:02:38
  example of a question that might be asked of a speller about the
• 1:02:41
  spiritual? Realm that they, you know,
• 1:02:42
  somebody might be visiting and ask him, you know, oh, you know,
• 1:02:46
  I'm trying to do this. Do you think that's a good idea?
• 1:02:49
  Does God want me to do that? What, what Cody and others get
• 1:02:54
  so wonderfully is that God wants relationship.
• 1:02:58
  You know, Jeremiah 9, you know God says, he says, let, let the
• 1:03:02
  wise man not glory in his wisdom.
• 1:03:04
  Let the mighty man not glory in his might.
• 1:03:07
  Let the rich man not glory in his riches.
• 1:03:09
  Let the one who glories glory, glory in this, that he
• 1:03:12
  understands me and he knows me. He wants us not just knowing
• 1:03:17
  about Him, He wants us knowing Him.
• 1:03:21
  He wants relationship. And so when people start
• 1:03:24
  thinking of a speller or somebody as a vending machine,
• 1:03:27
  oh, I'll put it in. Let me get the answer.
• 1:03:30
  It's just interesting how often they always turn the
• 1:03:33
  conversation back to relationship.
• 1:03:35
  No, no, no, you should pray and ask God was when they see Jesus
• 1:03:40
  and describe Jesus. What one of the things they all
• 1:03:43
  say overwhelmingly, it's just how love radiates from every
• 1:03:48
  part of him. How you see Jesus, you just
• 1:03:51
  desire to be with him. You desire that relationship.
• 1:03:55
  So they're, they're trying to push people away from the idea
• 1:03:58
  of, you know, come and ask me for an answer.
• 1:04:02
  They're trying to push you. No, no, no, yes, we have
• 1:04:06
  churches, we have traditions. They're not, that's not the
• 1:04:09
  issue. The issue is when you try to
• 1:04:11
  bypass the relationship that God wants us all to have with him.
• 1:04:17
  So that that to me is a wonderful mark of authenticity.
• 1:04:21
  But I've examined a lot of those issues.
• 1:04:23
  I won't think of them now. And they, they keep coming up,
• 1:04:28
  right? They keep coming up good.
• 1:04:30
  They're, they're talking about forgiveness.
• 1:04:32
  They warn people against hatred. I had to write somewhat about,
• 1:04:37
  you know, demons and demonic activity where they see those
• 1:04:41
  things play interactive and they are they're always emphasizing
• 1:04:47
  things like forgiveness and in point, how often is our Lord
• 1:04:51
  talk about forgiveness, right? The measure of forgiveness you
• 1:04:54
  receive will be the measure of forgiveness you show to others
• 1:04:57
  It and and they're wonderfully humble as well.
• 1:05:01
  They're they're they, they don't like attention to themselves.
• 1:05:05
  They, they, they, they would rather be talking about the Lord
• 1:05:10
  and his goodness and sort of inviting us into the dance.
• 1:05:14
  That's that's the way I see it with them.
• 1:05:16
  I think the word that comes to mind is magnanimous.
• 1:05:19
  They have very big, generous hearts.
• 1:05:22
  Many of these people with autism, because they're so used
• 1:05:25
  to being misunderstood, even mistreated, ignored, sidelined,
• 1:05:29
  even belittled, and again, many times not even by the intention
• 1:05:32
  of the people they're encountering.
• 1:05:33
  It's like people are trying to do those things to them, but
• 1:05:35
  they have that effect and they're so patiently patient in
• 1:05:39
  how they endure it. Yes.
• 1:05:41
  I mean, it's kind of, I mean, it's heartbreaking to think
• 1:05:43
  about that and also so admirable, something we can
• 1:05:47
  learn from. Quite a few of them have told me
• 1:05:49
  that if their autism will glorify God more than they'd
• 1:05:55
  rather have that than live without it.
• 1:05:57
  Wow. I I mean, how would you or I?
• 1:06:00
  I'm not sure how I would answer if if I could hypothetically be
• 1:06:03
  given a chance before the fact I I know how I hope I'd answer,
• 1:06:08
  but I'm not sure how I would. So let's explore all of these
• 1:06:11
  experiences that people with autism or non speaking have.
• 1:06:14
  I know Cody first among them in the book.
• 1:06:16
  How did you first discover that there were these supernatural
• 1:06:21
  experiences that were pretty unusual that people with the non
• 1:06:24
  speaking autism have? It started pretty early when
• 1:06:28
  Cody mentioned to his dad and mom and spelling session that he
• 1:06:32
  was being oppressed by a demon. His words and his parents said,
• 1:06:39
  Gee, can you come and pray? And I've, I've encountered this
• 1:06:43
  many times in my life. I won't go into a lot of detail.
• 1:06:46
  So I went and prayed. It was essentially an exorcist
• 1:06:49
  said, but it was just a prayer of faith.
• 1:06:52
  And he then, you know, spelled out he left who left the demon
• 1:07:00
  and he was, he had terrible pain.
• 1:07:02
  Like he described it like pins and needles in his forehead.
• 1:07:05
  And that was gone. But then he started describing
• 1:07:08
  the demon, what it said to him and giving these levels of
• 1:07:12
  detail that were odd, to put it mildly, and that I think we just
• 1:07:16
  gradually said code. Did you actually see this thing?
• 1:07:19
  Yes, I see into that world. That was the first hint of it,
• 1:07:24
  and then others who were spelling started hinting about
• 1:07:28
  it as well. I see angels, do you believe
• 1:07:31
  that? We had, you know, a 10 year old
• 1:07:33
  started spelling recently in our church and initially he was just
• 1:07:37
  doing his lessons and then at one point he spelled out in a
• 1:07:41
  session with his mom. I see angels, do you believe me
• 1:07:45
  so? What did the mom say?
• 1:07:47
  The the spelling facilitator said, let's get Joe.
• 1:07:51
  He he handles these things. And no, the mom completely
• 1:07:54
  believed and so powerful. So the next time he spelled, I
• 1:07:58
  went in and his dad went in for the first time.
• 1:08:01
  And the first thing the young man spelled out was Dad, I love
• 1:08:04
  you. And the father started crying.
• 1:08:06
  I started crying. Never said that before.
• 1:08:09
  Never said it before. Well, he's done speaking and now
• 1:08:12
  he was communicating through is a lot of emotions.
• 1:08:15
  A lot of times as Cody was coming out and saying those
• 1:08:18
  things to his parents, there were many tears.
• 1:08:22
  That's the most common reaction for everybody up.
• 1:08:25
  Imagine having a child, whatever, 151617 years old,
• 1:08:29
  you've never known them and suddenly they're saying, mom, I
• 1:08:32
  love you and I know how much you've taken care of me and you
• 1:08:37
  by and you're meeting them for the first time and you're
• 1:08:39
  thinking, oh, I didn't know them all these years.
• 1:08:42
  So there's there's a lot of emotion involved in it.
• 1:08:45
  So Cody mentioned it then and then others started saying it
• 1:08:49
  and that was when I I kicked into more of a skeptical gear.
• 1:08:52
  Like I have that they hear a story somewhere, they see a
• 1:08:56
  movie. Are they repeating something?
• 1:08:59
  Then there's a process that happened a literal time.
• 1:09:02
  Like there would be days I'd I'd come in for multiple spelling
• 1:09:07
  sessions and every speller would come in and say to the
• 1:09:10
  facilitator there's 4 angels with you today and and they'd
• 1:09:15
  all see the same thing. So wait, this is so there's A1
• 1:09:19
  facilitator one day, same day and same.
• 1:09:22
  Facilitator. OK, different.
• 1:09:24
  People, kids, different either the same day or a day later.
• 1:09:27
  And each kid that would come in. Come in and say there's 4
• 1:09:29
  angels. With non speaking autism they're
• 1:09:32
  only spelling and they're communicating.
• 1:09:34
  All different ages are same. Different ages.
• 1:09:36
  And they each would share unprompted.
• 1:09:38
  Or would they be? Prompted prompted the same
• 1:09:40
  thing. And they would say the
• 1:09:42
  facilitator, you've got 4 angels with you and.
• 1:09:44
  Remember, they don't have phones, they can't text, they
• 1:09:47
  don't call each other, they don't speak, but they would see
• 1:09:50
  the same things on the same day and.
• 1:09:53
  And and was there any more to the story?
• 1:09:55
  Like was she having because I believe everyone has a guardian
• 1:09:58
  Angel but 4 angels? Was there any more information
• 1:10:02
  about why there might be 4 in the room or?
• 1:10:04
  You need extra protection today. The demons are really trying to
• 1:10:08
  attack you. Demons of multiple of them have
• 1:10:11
  told me demons hate spelling. Of course they do, because it
• 1:10:15
  humanizes the. Child.
• 1:10:16
  Why is that the two main? Reasons they want to dehumanize
• 1:10:19
  these. Kids, one, right?
• 1:10:21
  It humanizes them. Think of the impact that that
• 1:10:24
  would have and how we view people with disabilities.
• 1:10:27
  What would happen in our culture if we view those things
• 1:10:30
  differently? How would people who get the
• 1:10:32
  news in a pregnancy reactor right?
• 1:10:34
  Yeah, we, we, we kill. Babies of everything.
• 1:10:37
  And the second thing is they don't want people knowing that
• 1:10:40
  they're there, CS Lewis wrote in the introduction to the screw
• 1:10:45
  tape letters, and I'm paraphrasing a little bit, he
• 1:10:48
  said that the 2 equal and the two opposite mistakes we make
• 1:10:51
  about the Devil's his word are to either not believe in them or
• 1:10:56
  believe in them but have an unhealthy interest in them.
• 1:10:59
  Give them too much power. Yes, give them too much power,
• 1:11:02
  pay too much attention to them. So they but, but they're real
• 1:11:08
  and they've described for me what happens in that dimension.
• 1:11:12
  They see things differently. They typically see demons as
• 1:11:16
  more just dark black, blackness, but they hear them speak and,
• 1:11:21
  and they say they're liars. And the Lord said, look, Satan
• 1:11:24
  is a father of lies. When he lies, he speaks his
• 1:11:26
  native language. What do what sorts of things do
• 1:11:30
  these children with non speaking autism report that the demons
• 1:11:34
  are lying to them about? You're not loved.
• 1:11:38
  There's no purpose to your life. And when they see the Lord, the
• 1:11:42
  Lord is always telling them not only how intensely he loves
• 1:11:45
  them, but that there is a purpose for their life.
• 1:11:50
  A bunch of them have told me. I knew from the time I was a
• 1:11:54
  kid, I was going to share my story.
• 1:11:55
  I was going to share the gospel and who Jesus was in my life.
• 1:12:00
  And I would say, how did you think that would happen when you
• 1:12:03
  couldn't speak? I didn't know.
• 1:12:05
  I just knew the Lord said it so it would happen.
• 1:12:08
  And eventually they weren't able.
• 1:12:09
  To do a spelling. Eventually it happened with
• 1:12:12
  spelling or however else it happened.
• 1:12:15
  They. This is fascinating to me too.
• 1:12:20
  I've asked now maybe in person. It could be 2025.
• 1:12:23
  Now. What does Jesus look like?
• 1:12:27
  The first answer I always get is some variation of this.
• 1:12:31
  He looks like love. He is God's love in form for us.
• 1:12:39
  It's always that we're superficial.
• 1:12:42
  If I ask you, what does a person look like?
• 1:12:44
  You might say whatever 6 foot two.
• 1:12:46
  He had a beard, you know, or they go right to the essence of
• 1:12:51
  who Jesus is. They they describe in
• 1:12:55
  particular, his eyes are just so filled with love, just so flow
• 1:13:01
  with love and and but he's always assuring them that
• 1:13:06
  there's a purpose to their life that their life as meaning they
• 1:13:09
  were created, you know, by God for a relationship with him.
• 1:13:15
  When I followed up and I've asked what can you tell me what
• 1:13:19
  he looks like physically. They'll describe him his average
• 1:13:22
  height as sort of olive skin, a dark beard.
• 1:13:27
  Most comments right here. He's got beautiful like
• 1:13:30
  blue-green eyes, holes in his hands and wrists.
• 1:13:35
  The I've shown a number of them pictures and there's a picture I
• 1:13:40
  think the title might as a painting part of me.
• 1:13:43
  I think the title might be Prince of Peace was done by a a,
• 1:13:46
  a, a girl and she was like 9 years age.
• 1:13:49
  She was young. I've seen it Akiyan or something
• 1:13:52
  like that. I.
• 1:13:52
  Was just looking at it this morning.
• 1:13:54
  They that they point to as looking the most like what they
• 1:14:00
  what they. Pull it up and put on the screen
• 1:14:03
  Harris. But this is this is him right
• 1:14:05
  here, right? And that interesting You were,
• 1:14:07
  you were. Looking at him this morning.
• 1:14:09
  Yes, that's it. That's I've shown them multiple
• 1:14:12
  artists, you know, depictions. And I said which one of these
• 1:14:15
  looks the most like him? And they almost always go to
• 1:14:19
  that. One and this this matches at
• 1:14:21
  least by my eye just looking at it, because I'm sure you could
• 1:14:24
  do an analysis more in depth, but there's the Shard of Turin.
• 1:14:29
  Yeah, yeah. And.
• 1:14:30
  Then there's the holy face of Montepello.
• 1:14:31
  So there's like historical artifacts effectively of our
• 1:14:34
  Lord resurrected and crucified, and it's a similar face.
• 1:14:39
  The, the boy, the the details about the Shroud of Torn are
• 1:14:42
  getting more and more amazing. Yes, I'm sure you've seen some
• 1:14:46
  of the 3D depictions. Yes, When you take the negative
• 1:14:49
  and you make it a positive and you give depth to it and all
• 1:14:51
  that astonishing in the extent of the wounds and all of that,
• 1:14:56
  and there's no way to account for how that was created except
• 1:15:00
  for some intense kind of burst of energy.
• 1:15:04
  I'm not an expert on it by any means.
• 1:15:06
  I've listened to a few lectures on it and they are amazing.
• 1:15:11
  Was, like you said, Akian Krameric.
• 1:15:13
  She's now, I think 19 or no, 24 years old now.
• 1:15:17
  But she was She had seen Jesus's face in her dreams.
• 1:15:22
  And then at age 8. Yeah, I knew it was.
• 1:15:25
  Yeah, you're. Right, and it's just gorgeous,
• 1:15:27
  you know, her painting, but God truly is close with little ones.
• 1:15:31
  I mean, that's that is always the story and that's what
• 1:15:33
  scripture tells us. And with these other, you know,
• 1:15:35
  children we're speaking to. So anyways I I might you know
• 1:15:38
  this is emotional for me listening to this because I
• 1:15:42
  think it speaks to my heart and I hope the people listening.
• 1:15:44
  Jesus is love and every person is made in His image.
• 1:15:49
  And you know, first John 47 and A is beloved.
• 1:15:52
  Let us love one another. That's that.
• 1:15:54
  That to me is so critical part of this.
• 1:15:56
  We're loving people. We're getting closer to the
• 1:15:58
  right way. The love is of God.
• 1:16:00
  Everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.
• 1:16:02
  The one who does not love does not know God, because God is
• 1:16:07
  love, not that he's familiar with it or he's capable of it.
• 1:16:11
  In His very essence, in every way, He is loved.
• 1:16:15
  It's so profound. They're overwhelmed by the love
• 1:16:18
  of God when they see it. I knew I'd make you cry.
• 1:16:21
  I hear you made me cry. It happened, you said earlier
• 1:16:25
  again before I think we started the interview, it was something
• 1:16:27
  about Jesus would console them. Children with non speaking
• 1:16:32
  autism, they would have a vision of Jesus and he would come to
• 1:16:35
  them and console them. Can you share more about that?
• 1:16:37
  Yeah, they, and it's interesting.
• 1:16:40
  A good number of them don't like to go into much detail about it.
• 1:16:45
  A good number of them see it as a special intimate time.
• 1:16:51
  Like Cody has said to me, I'd rather keep that personal
• 1:16:54
  between, you know, Jesus and me. And quite a few of them have
• 1:17:00
  said to me he's a very good listener.
• 1:17:03
  What really. Well, what do you talk about?
• 1:17:06
  Everything. I tell him everything, how I
• 1:17:08
  feel, what I'm thinking, what happened that day.
• 1:17:11
  And he's just always there looking, listening, and it's
• 1:17:15
  just love is always radiating from him.
• 1:17:19
  And so that's that's just a wonderful feature.
• 1:17:23
  But but he's always reminding them their love.
• 1:17:25
  And it's interesting going back to demons, a a common attack
• 1:17:30
  that they'll hear is, well, you're not really loved.
• 1:17:35
  You know, look at you, there's nothing to you.
• 1:17:40
  It texts tend to be dehumanizing.
• 1:17:43
  So it it's just interesting again, everything that God would
• 1:17:46
  tell us how precious children are, how much he loves them,
• 1:17:50
  their angels always behold the face of my father.
• 1:17:53
  You know what you've done for the least of these you've done
• 1:17:56
  for me? That the the enemy strategy
• 1:17:59
  seems to be to try to counter that with lies and make people
• 1:18:04
  feel unloved or isolated. Was there ever a specific story
• 1:18:08
  that Cody or anyone shared with you about Jesus consoling them?
• 1:18:11
  Oh, yeah. You know, they, they all of
• 1:18:14
  them, Yeah. You know, there's one book I
• 1:18:18
  have, one of the spellers I've gotten to know better.
• 1:18:20
  His name is Jeff sent me a book privately published.
• 1:18:24
  I wish I'd brought it along with it was like 20, about 25
• 1:18:28
  accounts of spellers. She, Jeff's the only one I know.
• 1:18:31
  And they all give their stories and their testimony.
• 1:18:33
  They've all done this through spelling and time after time.
• 1:18:37
  There was one young man's name was Angelo, who talked.
• 1:18:41
  I quote him in the book, actually, where he says I was
• 1:18:45
  filled with bitterness and darkness until Jesus came.
• 1:18:48
  And he he, Jesus, I won't have the exact words, but Jesus
• 1:18:53
  ministered life to him. He helped me when I was in
• 1:18:56
  darkness. He he brought me peace and joy.
• 1:19:01
  And, you know, and he commented too, that he's seen angels since
• 1:19:04
  he was three years old in his crib.
• 1:19:06
  But yeah, there, there are all those kinds of stories and Jesus
• 1:19:10
  is active. I mean, one story that happened
• 1:19:13
  to me one time at the end of a spelling session, I, I can't
• 1:19:18
  recall who the young man was, but was maybe it was over Zoom
• 1:19:21
  or Google Meet like that. The young man on the other end
• 1:19:25
  was there with his mom. I saw him spelling something and
• 1:19:28
  his mother said, oh, he's Joey saying to tell you this.
• 1:19:33
  Jesus said to him to tell you me to tell you that you're supposed
• 1:19:40
  to help people understand this and train ministers on on
• 1:19:44
  understanding this and and how to treat people.
• 1:19:48
  Now I've been in the faith a long time and I've never once in
• 1:19:54
  my life heard Jesus said I'm you know, my theology would be
• 1:20:00
  charismatic. I'm.
• 1:20:02
  Open on all the gifts and I believe that those things have
• 1:20:06
  experienced them. I've never heard anything like
• 1:20:08
  that. I didn't know what to say like I
• 1:20:11
  kind of looked and I said Oh well, thank you.
• 1:20:15
  And privately I'm thinking, what was that about?
• 1:20:18
  You know, and I went home that night and I started praying and
• 1:20:22
  I and I prayed Lord was I was that actually you?
• 1:20:25
  How do I interpret that? And a little after that, his mom
• 1:20:29
  sent me an e-mail saying he said to tell you, yes, it was.
• 1:20:33
  He really does see you. He said to tell you yes, it was.
• 1:20:36
  He really does see you. Yeah, and.
• 1:20:39
  It's not one of the reasons you're here right now.
• 1:20:40
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and a number, a number of
• 1:20:44
  the spellers have said you were supposed to write this book.
• 1:20:48
  God's going to open all these doors for you.
• 1:20:52
  I mean I I. You know, this is, this is a new
• 1:20:54
  world for me. I'm thinking about all the
• 1:20:56
  people I know, not, not an immediate family, but people
• 1:21:00
  that I know who know people who have children with autism or
• 1:21:03
  adults with autism or other disabilities.
• 1:21:06
  And I think about foster care and kids in foster care and just
• 1:21:10
  the, the huge misunderstandings that we have and the gap that
• 1:21:15
  separates us and, and I, that's why I think this is so
• 1:21:19
  important. And it's more than autism.
• 1:21:21
  It's not only Down syndrome. I put a bit in there about my
• 1:21:26
  friend Brooke Brown. So Brooke was born with a
• 1:21:29
  significant cerebral palsy. She's been in a wheelchair all
• 1:21:32
  her life. Her speech is somewhat
• 1:21:35
  compromised. It's hard to understand.
• 1:21:37
  There are times. And, you know, Brooke has
• 1:21:40
  wonderful sense of humor. She communicates on an
• 1:21:43
  electronic spelling device. I had her on my church podcast
• 1:21:47
  to get, you know, introduce her to people.
• 1:21:50
  And she tells, you know, she she'll say how all her life
• 1:21:55
  people have come up to her. Hi, how do you do?
• 1:21:58
  And her speech might sound a little garbled.
• 1:22:01
  Oh, that's nice. Are you OK today?
• 1:22:04
  And they talk like that. Brooke is an honors graduate of
• 1:22:08
  Arizona State University. She was a graduation speaker
• 1:22:12
  through her device, got the first standing ovation in the
• 1:22:16
  history of the school. She's an author.
• 1:22:18
  She's working on volume two of her biography now.
• 1:22:22
  She's done theater. She's a motivational speaker
• 1:22:25
  through her device. She's got a great sense of
• 1:22:28
  humor. This is interesting.
• 1:22:31
  At the end, at the end when I was working on the book, I was
• 1:22:34
  thinking of her because she was Miss Arizona Wheelchair.
• 1:22:38
  Her theme was always assumed competence and she was in the
• 1:22:41
  Miss US wheelchair event. She was like second runner up, I
• 1:22:46
  want to say. And I thought that always
• 1:22:49
  assumed competence is so important.
• 1:22:52
  I want to get that in there. And when I was writing it, going
• 1:22:55
  back and forth with Brooke by e-mail, she had mentioned
• 1:22:58
  something about her sweet time with the Lord.
• 1:23:00
  And I, I said, I never thought it was before Brooke when you
• 1:23:04
  said that, Like, do you actually see something or were you just
• 1:23:07
  saying that generally? And she said, it's so funny you
• 1:23:11
  ask. I usually don't talk about it
• 1:23:12
  unless people ask. She's had this, these intimate
• 1:23:16
  times where she sees Jesus. It's the same thing.
• 1:23:19
  She described them the same way. She has time with him in a place
• 1:23:24
  it's not on earth where she's in a body that's perfectly healed.
• 1:23:29
  They danced together. She loves to you know she's been
• 1:23:33
  in a wheelchair all her life. They dance together.
• 1:23:35
  It's a place with beautiful feels like I described it and
• 1:23:38
  they were in her chapters. Everything is golden.
• 1:23:41
  The animals have intelligence. Everything worships God.
• 1:23:45
  Every blade of grass or animal worships God.
• 1:23:47
  Every animal worship, everything, all of creation
• 1:23:51
  worships God. What?
• 1:23:52
  Not Brooke, Somebody else told me, Joe, the rocks worship God.
• 1:23:56
  It made me think of when Jesus was entering Jerusalem, if they
• 1:24:00
  were silent, the rocks would cry out.
• 1:24:02
  So there's something about that heavenly state where everything
• 1:24:06
  is rightly worshiping our our Creator, our our creator and our
• 1:24:11
  beloved Savior and the Holy Spirit.
• 1:24:14
  And so, you know, Brooke is showing me, I think it's not
• 1:24:21
  just autism. I think broadly it's the people
• 1:24:25
  who we pass and we don't pay attention to.
• 1:24:28
  We, we need to be more open to people who seem to be on the
• 1:24:32
  margins of life, what culture idolizes, you know, great
• 1:24:38
  athletes, wealthy people, Same beautiful.
• 1:24:44
  I, I, I'm going through the airport today.
• 1:24:46
  I heard more conversation about the playoffs yesterday that I
• 1:24:49
  could count and how great this player was and this and that.
• 1:24:54
  Nobody's talking about people on the roadside.
• 1:24:57
  That's maybe more sensitive now I'll sometimes see I was at a
• 1:25:01
  restaurant not long ago. There was a, a, a young boy with
• 1:25:05
  autism there with his father and mother.
• 1:25:07
  And I was just watching and Cody's parents have said how
• 1:25:10
  much it meant to them when people came over to them and
• 1:25:14
  just said to them, you're wonderful parents.
• 1:25:16
  You're doing a great job. Because a lot of times, some
• 1:25:18
  with autism, they might yell out they're disruptive or they get
• 1:25:22
  dirty looks from people you know.
• 1:25:24
  Well, they can't help that they're trying to go out.
• 1:25:27
  And instead of being understanding and welcoming them
• 1:25:30
  and doing life with them, we're we're pushing them away.
• 1:25:34
  And I do this now. I just went up to them.
• 1:25:36
  I said, I just want to tell you, you are wonderful parents.
• 1:25:40
  I love watching you with your son.
• 1:25:42
  And boy, God bless you for that. And this Oh, thank you.
• 1:25:45
  You don't hear things like that. And to find those people who
• 1:25:50
  you, you, you pass by. If you don't mind, I'm going to
• 1:25:55
  veer into a little story. Please do.
• 1:25:58
  So my oldest son and I were, you know, in October we visited
• 1:26:02
  Italy. We talked about it forever and
• 1:26:03
  we went to Rome and Florence to get we had a great time and we
• 1:26:07
  were walking up back street in Florence.
• 1:26:10
  And when you go, you know, to sit the beautiful cathedrals
• 1:26:14
  there a lot of people begging. They have cans and you, you're
• 1:26:18
  accustomed to that. There was a woman laying on the
• 1:26:22
  ground and her is she her head was down.
• 1:26:25
  She wasn't that old. She a dog was next to her laying
• 1:26:29
  still. And Lila, she looked like she
• 1:26:32
  had just given up on life. She looked like somebody was so
• 1:26:36
  lost. And I walking by, I'm just
• 1:26:39
  praying silently. And I, I felt something inside
• 1:26:43
  my spirit. I just felt something go over to
• 1:26:46
  her and talk to her. And so I went over and knelt
• 1:26:50
  down. She looked up surprised.
• 1:26:53
  I pressed a few EUR into her hand and I took her hand and
• 1:26:57
  held it. And I said in my not very good
• 1:27:00
  Italian, Jesus Christ loves you very much.
• 1:27:04
  She gasped. She went.
• 1:27:07
  I felt her squeeze my hand and she was staring so intently she
• 1:27:14
  and she started crying and I I just felt stay in this, don't
• 1:27:18
  back out of this too quickly. I stayed in the moment just kept
• 1:27:22
  looking at her and smiling. And then finally I, you know,
• 1:27:26
  extricated my hand and I just said bless you and walked away
• 1:27:30
  and she was sobbing. Now, what happened there?
• 1:27:34
  I don't know. It made me think of early in the
• 1:27:38
  Gospel of John, Nathaniel comes to gets invited by Philip to go
• 1:27:46
  see Jesus and Jesus says, Oh, the hold, look, here's an
• 1:27:51
  Israelite who's there's no some translation.
• 1:27:54
  So there's no guy. He's honest.
• 1:27:56
  And The thing is this how do you know me?
• 1:27:59
  And, and the Lord replies, before Philip called you, I saw
• 1:28:02
  you under the fig tree. You're the Messiah.
• 1:28:06
  You're the son of God because I said that you haven't seen
• 1:28:10
  anything yet. You're going to see angels
• 1:28:12
  ascending and descending on the Son of man.
• 1:28:15
  I think like if you've watched the chosen us.
• 1:28:17
  I, I think Nathaniel was sitting somewhere under a fig tree
• 1:28:21
  praying. Who knows what you know, I need
• 1:28:24
  to know the truth. Are you real?
• 1:28:26
  And then here I saw you under the fig tree.
• 1:28:28
  So I think sometimes we may enter people's lives just by
• 1:28:32
  praying for them, just by blessing them, letting them
• 1:28:35
  know, just stopping to give them a look.
• 1:28:37
  People who were passing, who are in the margins of life, who
• 1:28:41
  don't get attention when we stop and we're in the moment and we
• 1:28:44
  love them and we show them that love and that dignity as people.
• 1:28:48
  We may not agree with things they're doing, but boy, we can
• 1:28:51
  certainly love them and try to be as much of Jesus Christ as we
• 1:28:57
  can to them. Something I was almost going to
• 1:28:59
  say something magic, but it's not something deep spiritually
• 1:29:04
  happens, I think. And to me now, the young men and
• 1:29:08
  women with autism have just become the personification of
• 1:29:11
  that because no one has paid them attention.
• 1:29:13
  They've been totally ignored. And now we're finding they're,
• 1:29:16
  they're, they're actually gifts for us.
• 1:29:19
  His parents and I started Cody's parents and I started a ministry
• 1:29:23
  called Hidden Gifts Ministry and we're loading it packing it with
• 1:29:28
  free resources. I don't mind saying this for
• 1:29:31
  people Hawk books. I don't see anything from the
• 1:29:34
  anything from the book goes to the ministry.
• 1:29:36
  We're trying to scholarship people for special needs if they
• 1:29:40
  can't afford spelling help to train people to help churches
• 1:29:44
  and ministries that want to minister to disabilities to help
• 1:29:48
  marriages. Divorce rate where there's not
• 1:29:50
  intervention is shockingly. For families with kids to talk
• 1:29:54
  to. 90% or any disability that the diagnosis comes and if
• 1:29:59
  there's strain already in the relationship, you add that to it
• 1:30:03
  and people don't know how to react.
• 1:30:04
  So we we want to produce as many materials as possible to
• 1:30:09
  minister to that community and those families.
• 1:30:12
  I think when we enter into those things, to me autism has become
• 1:30:16
  kind of the face of it. I want to ask you.
• 1:30:20
  I want to ask you to read this passage with Cody.
• 1:30:24
  This is something that Cody spelled to you, a conversation
• 1:30:27
  that you and. Cody had, yes, All right.
• 1:30:29
  What? And give us the context here?
• 1:30:31
  How old is Cody here? When did this conversation take
• 1:30:33
  place? Oh, so this might be 2-3 years
• 1:30:35
  ago, so Cody's maybe 22. Cody.
• 1:30:41
  I want to talk about Jesus today.
• 1:30:43
  I see him too. God gives me authority.
• 1:30:46
  He, Jesus, will do nothing apart from God.
• 1:30:51
  Marissa is the name I've given to a spelling facilitator.
• 1:30:55
  Are you done or is there more? Cody More.
• 1:30:57
  I love it so much. God gives Jesus authority over
• 1:31:01
  demons. Marissa Do you want to talk more
• 1:31:04
  about that? Cody Yes, I see demons too
• 1:31:07
  sometimes. Matt His father.
• 1:31:10
  Do you feel scared? Cody I feel scared.
• 1:31:14
  Marissa, is that your true thought?
• 1:31:17
  She's making sure it's his thoughts and not being planted.
• 1:31:21
  Cody. My thought.
• 1:31:22
  Marissa. What do you do when you're
• 1:31:24
  scared? Cody, I get dysregulated.
• 1:31:26
  Dysregulated. They lose control of the body.
• 1:31:29
  They may have to stop, do exercises, stretch.
• 1:31:32
  The the the emotion causes the body to short circuit a little
• 1:31:36
  bit. Want me to pick it up here
• 1:31:37
  again? OK.
• 1:31:39
  When was Marissa? When was the last time you saw a
• 1:31:42
  demon? Cody At work program today.
• 1:31:45
  Marissa, can you tell me about it?
• 1:31:47
  This is the actual language is Mom takes down everything.
• 1:31:50
  I just put them verbatim. Cody.
• 1:31:53
  It made me feel dysregulated. I left and I calmed down.
• 1:31:58
  Marissa, can you tell me where the work program?
• 1:32:00
  Cody in the workroom. What was it doing?
• 1:32:03
  It was watching me. Just you.
• 1:32:06
  Yes, Marissa. Do you know how to make him go
• 1:32:10
  away? Cody.
• 1:32:11
  In Jesus name. I like saying his name.
• 1:32:14
  Which name? Jesus name.
• 1:32:17
  Were there angels in the workroom too?
• 1:32:20
  Yes. What were the angels doing?
• 1:32:23
  Protecting me, Marissa again, I'm going back and forth,
• 1:32:26
  obviously. Tell me how the program is
• 1:32:28
  going. Cody.
• 1:32:29
  I like it. It's good work.
• 1:32:31
  Today was interesting because the demon was there.
• 1:32:35
  Had it been there before Cody? Yes, but not every day.
• 1:32:38
  Once in a while. Does he do any?
• 1:32:41
  Does he ever say anything to you?
• 1:32:43
  No, it just watches me. Sometimes it argues with the
• 1:32:47
  Angel. That's typical of a conversation
• 1:32:51
  that you'll see. And you mentioned that sometimes
• 1:32:55
  spellers, non speaking autistic people can see angels and demons
• 1:32:59
  battling, is this an example? Yes, yeah, that's I'm physically
• 1:33:03
  fighting wrestling matches, weapons that are not weapons
• 1:33:09
  you'd find on the earth. Happily, the angels are
• 1:33:12
  stronger. When people are praying, the
• 1:33:16
  angels will win. When, when, when our creator
• 1:33:20
  says it. You know, I'm sending angels for
• 1:33:22
  this purpose. God's purpose will be will be
• 1:33:27
  accomplished. But the, IT seems like the
• 1:33:31
  demons get more done when we sort of welcome them in and we
• 1:33:36
  want to play along with them. But yeah, they fight and, and
• 1:33:42
  this is fascinating. You know, one time, you know,
• 1:33:46
  I've heard people say, well, we can command angels.
• 1:33:49
  I've never thought that. I, I don't know, I'm not
• 1:33:51
  comfortable with that idea. It came up with Cody one time
• 1:33:55
  and Cody said we don't command angels, we pray to Jesus and
• 1:34:00
  he'll send angels to fight for us and the and remember there's
• 1:34:05
  more angels. In Revelation chapter 12, it's
• 1:34:07
  recorded that the dragon who's identified as Satan fell and his
• 1:34:12
  tail swept 1/3 of the stars, thought to be a reference to 1/3
• 1:34:17
  of the angelic order falling with him.
• 1:34:20
  So but this was interesting. One time one of the spellers,
• 1:34:23
  Matthew was with me in a session.
• 1:34:25
  He asked me to come in and pray for me.
• 1:34:26
  He had questions for me and then at the end of his questions, he
• 1:34:32
  asked me, I have one more question.
• 1:34:34
  Can you tell me about incense? It smells strong.
• 1:34:38
  And I went, what? OK.
• 1:34:42
  I was just finally starting to get, oh, a little accustomed to
• 1:34:47
  the idea that they see and they hear but smell.
• 1:34:51
  So I started thinking about this wall, Right?
• 1:34:54
  You see, you know, the Apostle John and Revelation is in
• 1:34:59
  heaven. You see Ezekiel, they have
• 1:35:01
  something in common. They're both given scrolls and
• 1:35:04
  told to taste it. So they're holding a scroll in
• 1:35:07
  their hand, even though it's a vision.
• 1:35:09
  So there's touch. They taste it and it's sweet in
• 1:35:13
  their mouth, so there's taste. So it's perhaps not so odd that
• 1:35:18
  smell operates as well. But why would it operate?
• 1:35:21
  So I said, well, can you tell me about that?
• 1:35:24
  And now probably at least a half dozen spellers have described it
• 1:35:28
  for me. There's different types of
• 1:35:30
  incense. It's stronger when people are
• 1:35:33
  praying and angels are fighting for us.
• 1:35:38
  Now I thought that's interesting.
• 1:35:40
  Is there anything in Scripture that might hint about that?
• 1:35:42
  And there is, there are two chapters in, in the Book of
• 1:35:46
  Revelation, the Revelation of Saint John, the, you know, the
• 1:35:53
  chapter 5 and chapter 8 both refer to bowls with incense.
• 1:35:58
  The incense is the prayers of the Saints and it's rising
• 1:36:02
  before the throne. And those prayers are
• 1:36:04
  administered by angels. And when I saw that, I went, oh,
• 1:36:08
  my goodness. Wow, there it is.
• 1:36:10
  Incense is always so prominent in the Scripture as a picture of
• 1:36:15
  prayer. Even in the Old Testament, in
• 1:36:17
  the Tabernacle, you know, you had the Holy of Holies with the
• 1:36:21
  Ark of the Covenant, the Holy place.
• 1:36:24
  You had the candle Slabra, the menorah.
• 1:36:27
  You had the table of showbread. There was also an altar of
• 1:36:30
  incense and the altar of incense was pushed right against the
• 1:36:34
  curtain where they holy of the Holy of Holies.
• 1:36:38
  And when the writers comment on that, like in Hebrews, they
• 1:36:42
  write about the, the, the incense as if it's in the holy
• 1:36:47
  of holies. And theologians have speculated,
• 1:36:50
  why would that be? If it's not physically in there,
• 1:36:52
  why are they referring to it as if it is?
• 1:36:56
  I think the answer may be the incense again, is is
• 1:37:00
  representative of the prayers of the Saints and it's so
• 1:37:03
  associated with those prayers rising up before the throne that
• 1:37:08
  it's it's incorporated into the place where the Ark of the
• 1:37:12
  Covenant is the mercy seat of gold, where the presence of God
• 1:37:16
  is dwelling. So beautiful and the as a
• 1:37:20
  Catholic and Orthodox, and there's some Protestants who
• 1:37:23
  believe this too. But the prayers of the Saints
• 1:37:25
  are of course us can pray for one another.
• 1:37:27
  And it's the communion of Saints throughout time and space.
• 1:37:30
  So it's all of the Saints in heaven who can intercede in our
• 1:37:33
  behalf. And so you have this incredible
• 1:37:36
  body of believers, including those still.
• 1:37:39
  In the cloud of witnesses. The cloud of witnesses and what
• 1:37:42
  a blessing and and how incredible that non those with
• 1:37:44
  non speaking autism have this connection to that and can smell
• 1:37:48
  it, smell the incense and have this physical experience of
• 1:37:52
  those prayers. They've hinted about that when
• 1:37:54
  they go to the hill. Yeah, tell me about the.
• 1:37:57
  Hill is not just hanging around with friends.
• 1:38:00
  So they all call it the Hill. Some of us said to me, well it's
• 1:38:05
  OK to call it the hill. Some have other names for it,
• 1:38:08
  but they know what it is you're referring to if you say it.
• 1:38:12
  They go there not just to meet friends, which is what the
• 1:38:17
  Telepathy Tapes kind of hints at.
• 1:38:20
  They go there to be with Jesus and there's teaching and there's
• 1:38:24
  intercession and they are praying for people there from a
• 1:38:28
  heaven like place for people on earth and there are flowers and
• 1:38:34
  they like to talk about the flowers.
• 1:38:35
  The flowers are incredibly beautiful and perfect.
• 1:38:39
  There's some colors that they recognize or some colors we've
• 1:38:42
  never seen on earth. How can that be?
• 1:38:45
  I don't know. And the flowers are in some way,
• 1:38:49
  a couple of told me, related people on earth and are involved
• 1:38:53
  when they make intercession for people on earth.
• 1:38:57
  So they're in a heavenly place, a heaven type of place doing
• 1:39:00
  that. Let me introduce the hell this
• 1:39:04
  way. So Cody was on a spelling
• 1:39:08
  session with two other young men and they're not that far in age.
• 1:39:12
  The two young men have had books written about them.
• 1:39:15
  When I entered this world, I found their moms had written
• 1:39:18
  books. Tony Cullen wrote Josiah's fire.
• 1:39:22
  Katie Asher wrote the Book of Heaven.
• 1:39:25
  And these same kinds of incredible things I was seeing
• 1:39:28
  and I reached out to them and said I'm seeing this.
• 1:39:31
  Really quick clarification, Cody is doing a spelling session with
• 1:39:34
  two other non speaking autistic children or young and.
• 1:39:37
  Alex. So they're all together.
• 1:39:39
  So I reached out to people, I'm meeting more people.
• 1:39:43
  And one point we said, oh, let's all meet on Zoom.
• 1:39:46
  So there's a three, you know, three of us on Zoom.
• 1:39:49
  So, you know, Josiah is with his mom and and you know, Houston's
• 1:39:56
  with his, they spelled mostly with their mom.
• 1:39:58
  Cody's mom is getting more proficient.
• 1:39:59
  She's spelling more with him. Cody at that point was still
• 1:40:02
  with his spelling facilitator. I can't remember if she was
• 1:40:07
  there who was there with him at that particular one anyway,
• 1:40:10
  toward the end of it. So the way it's working is
• 1:40:13
  you'll see, I'll see somebody on the screen and they're doing
• 1:40:17
  this. They're spelling and the mother.
• 1:40:20
  Recites what was just said. So they're having this
• 1:40:23
  conversation among themselves, their spelling, and the person
• 1:40:28
  with them is saying what they said and they're talking
• 1:40:30
  questions and answering them. I have a few of those in the
• 1:40:33
  book sessions like that. Toward the end of it, one of the
• 1:40:37
  young men said to Cody, you should join us on the hill
• 1:40:40
  tonight. Nobody had ever heard the hill
• 1:40:43
  before. And Cody responded something to
• 1:40:46
  the effect of it's hard to go there and then to return to my
• 1:40:52
  body with its chains. The rest of us are just going
• 1:40:57
  right. What's happening here?
• 1:40:59
  The next spelling session we did, I asked Cody, can you tell
• 1:41:06
  me about the hill Cody was with? Marissa's the name I use for the
• 1:41:11
  person, not her real name. She preferred not to be named.
• 1:41:17
  Can you tell me about the hill? And Cody spelled out.
• 1:41:20
  Ask Marissa. She's been there.
• 1:41:23
  Well, parents and I looked over Marissa like what?
• 1:41:27
  And and while I saw the color, it literally drained out of her
• 1:41:32
  face. And she's not so sure of these
• 1:41:36
  things. She's not always comfortable
• 1:41:38
  with, but she can't explain what she's seeing.
• 1:41:41
  She sees it's real, she said. About 10 years ago, I had a
• 1:41:45
  dream, a vision. I don't even know what to call
• 1:41:47
  it. I was on a hillside.
• 1:41:48
  It was an actual hill. It was grass.
• 1:41:50
  It was beautiful. The Lord was sitting there and
• 1:41:54
  he just looked at me and I was so taken.
• 1:41:58
  He was so he was rating such love and joy and peace.
• 1:42:03
  I was overwhelmed. Then Cody, without any
• 1:42:07
  prompting, because that's all she said, dispelled without any
• 1:42:10
  prompting, you saw children there.
• 1:42:12
  Those children had autism. And she went, that's right,
• 1:42:16
  there were children all over the place.
• 1:42:18
  And she broke down. She started crying and she said,
• 1:42:22
  why was I allowed? She said, I prayed for years,
• 1:42:25
  please, whatever that was, can I see it again?
• 1:42:28
  Why was I allowed to see that? And Cody said you were allowed
• 1:42:32
  to see it because God knew you would be working with us and he
• 1:42:37
  wanted you to understand our world and what we see.
• 1:42:40
  The next day, Matthew happened to be in and he wanted to ask
• 1:42:44
  about something. So I went with him for part of
• 1:42:46
  his session. And at the end of I said, by the
• 1:42:49
  way, Matthew, do you know about the hill?
• 1:42:52
  Have you ever seen the hill? And he spelled to me, yes, ask
• 1:42:58
  Marissa about it, She's been there.
• 1:43:01
  How do they know that Marissa's Angel was telling them?
• 1:43:03
  Marissa's been there, so they all know.
• 1:43:05
  Marissa had never told Cody or Matthew that she'd been to this
• 1:43:08
  hill. In the vision.
• 1:43:09
  Never. The Angel is telling the kids
• 1:43:11
  they're the boys, the men, you know.
• 1:43:12
  Marissa never talked about it, right?
• 1:43:15
  So they all know she's been there.
• 1:43:17
  So first basic question, what is the Hill?
• 1:43:22
  I've had a lot of people ask and the bottom line to it is I don't
• 1:43:25
  know. I've had people ask about it.
• 1:43:29
  It doesn't seem to be heaven proper, but it has heaven like
• 1:43:33
  qualities. Sometimes we'll you'll see in
• 1:43:36
  scripture that references to the 3rd heaven, right?
• 1:43:43
  Some theologians speculate the first heavens more like the
• 1:43:47
  earth, the second, or somebody like the atmosphere.
• 1:43:50
  The third would be where the throne room of God is, where
• 1:43:54
  Paul, the apostle Paul says in Second Corinthians chapter 12
• 1:43:59
  that he was caught up into paradise.
• 1:44:01
  To think of that as the throne room of God or something like
• 1:44:04
  that. And so some people have asked me
• 1:44:08
  could it be the 2nd heaven? Again, I don't know the what
• 1:44:14
  I've called it as a placeholder is something like a suburb of
• 1:44:18
  heaven. There's an awareness of people
• 1:44:23
  there, that there's something like a city over that way.
• 1:44:27
  And and they're only seeing living people.
• 1:44:29
  So what I mean by that is when you've heard these accounts from
• 1:44:32
  non speaking people with autism spellers talking about the hill
• 1:44:37
  or some hill like place, the people they're seeing at that
• 1:44:40
  place are other people with autism as well as Jesus that
• 1:44:45
  they've know in real life. They don't always know them.
• 1:44:49
  They can meet people there sometimes they know them.
• 1:44:51
  They can look for you can find people immediately.
• 1:44:54
  Now, here's the thing. There may be more than one hill.
• 1:44:58
  A young man with a Down syndrome spelled with his mom for me, and
• 1:45:05
  his mom asked him about the hill.
• 1:45:07
  Do you have you have met Cody? And he said, I usually go to a
• 1:45:11
  different hill where there's people with Down syndrome.
• 1:45:13
  So it may be a much larger place.
• 1:45:16
  And we know I've met people who have talked about and some of
• 1:45:20
  them are higher, they're higher functioning, they have higher
• 1:45:26
  functioning autism and they don't necessarily see like
• 1:45:31
  angels and demons, but they've had other kinds of experiences.
• 1:45:36
  I've had some say to me, I'm aware when angels are around or
• 1:45:41
  or even the demon, I just get a sense if it's a demon, I feel
• 1:45:45
  sick. I've heard a few times, one
• 1:45:48
  woman described it as the air kind of ripples, whatever that
• 1:45:52
  would be. Some of them have not had a lot
• 1:45:55
  of those experiences, but have told me I've seen the hill or
• 1:46:00
  I've been to a place next to it. One woman described being in a
• 1:46:04
  sort of heavenly place. And there were columns like
• 1:46:06
  Greek or Roman columns. And, you know, they're sort of
• 1:46:11
  in the distance. There's, there's mountains,
• 1:46:14
  there is, there's places. It's it's a real physical place.
• 1:46:19
  It may be much larger than we know, but there doesn't seem to
• 1:46:22
  be any limit in where they go or even how they communicate.
• 1:46:27
  They get it sounds like they can just think when they're there
• 1:46:30
  and they're at a location again, similar to near death
• 1:46:34
  experiences. So what exactly it is, it's hard
• 1:46:37
  to know, but it has heaven type qualities.
• 1:46:41
  There are animals, they there's intelligence and worship and
• 1:46:49
  everything. There's worship music always and
• 1:46:52
  it's, they say the worship music is so perfect and so amazing
• 1:46:57
  that you can't really describe it.
• 1:46:59
  They one person told me, if you heard that worship music, you'd
• 1:47:03
  never doubt that God existed. And the others have said, by the
• 1:47:09
  way, that when they hear worship music, it'll it remind them of
• 1:47:13
  one of their favorite worship songs here on earth.
• 1:47:16
  There's aspects of it that seem to relate or correlate.
• 1:47:19
  Is there a a commonality between the kinds of favorite worship
• 1:47:23
  songs they have? I I don't know it's I'd be
• 1:47:26
  curious, I'd. Also be curious if you played
• 1:47:28
  them Gregorian chant or, you know, Liturgy of the Hours sung,
• 1:47:33
  if they would say that this sounds, you know, similar.
• 1:47:36
  You know, there's so much to explore there, of course.
• 1:47:38
  I asked Cody one time to describe when angels worship and
• 1:47:43
  he he tried to communicate that you, you really can't
• 1:47:46
  understand. He, he said he, he answered one
• 1:47:49
  word. Finally, he said perfection.
• 1:47:52
  Wow, yeah you said earlier that there were two children with non
• 1:47:59
  speaking autism from different parts of the country I think who
• 1:48:04
  had never met before. Those experiences come up, yes.
• 1:48:08
  Walk us through what happens. Two children, different parts of
• 1:48:10
  the country. They meet on the hill, the
• 1:48:12
  supernatural realm. Then they met in real life and
• 1:48:15
  they remember meeting each other on the hill.
• 1:48:17
  Well, in the case of two people I knew, a young man woman, a
• 1:48:22
  young woman, young man about the same age, both around 1819 when
• 1:48:26
  they met in person finally. But it was obvious there was
• 1:48:29
  great affections. They wanted to hold hands.
• 1:48:32
  And again, the young man is blind and they both have autism,
• 1:48:36
  so they're not seen there speaking.
• 1:48:38
  But others have said, oh, they they're together all the time on
• 1:48:42
  the hill. Who?
• 1:48:43
  What do you mean what others? Other spellers who have been to
• 1:48:46
  the hill. So other spellers non.
• 1:48:51
  Speaking so Harry and Elsa, they're together all the time.
• 1:48:54
  I've not experienced a lot of that.
• 1:48:56
  They don't talk to me so much about seeing friends.
• 1:48:59
  Where that comes more, that comes more from the Telepathy
• 1:49:03
  Tapes. In fact, it was funny when I
• 1:49:06
  first learned about the hill when I went on the telepathy
• 1:49:09
  tape. So it was in episode 7 of the
• 1:49:11
  first series. I thought, oh, she'll enjoy
• 1:49:13
  hearing this. This will be a new one on her.
• 1:49:16
  And I started describing this some place they call it the
• 1:49:19
  Hill. And when she did the actual
• 1:49:21
  podcast, she had me talking about the Hill and then you.
• 1:49:25
  Then she comes on the podcast and says, I was so amused.
• 1:49:29
  Here was Joe talking to me like he's telling me about the Hill
• 1:49:33
  and something new. Little did he know I've been
• 1:49:35
  hearing about the hill for a year, more than 100 people.
• 1:49:39
  She had so much knowledge and information about the hill, but
• 1:49:44
  she was focusing more on the fact they just speak in their
• 1:49:47
  mind and they're able to do that on Earth.
• 1:49:51
  They tell me the purpose of the hill is interceding for people.
• 1:49:56
  They're taught by the Lord. They're there, there's powerful
• 1:50:01
  things happening there. And a number of them have said
• 1:50:03
  to me, I'm not allowed to talk about what happens on the hill.
• 1:50:07
  One speller when I asked about, I asked are there multiple hills
• 1:50:12
  And there's like it seems like somebody's in charge of some of
• 1:50:15
  them. I'm we can't talk about that.
• 1:50:19
  I took an oath. I can't talk about it.
• 1:50:22
  Another one, use the word code. There's a code.
• 1:50:24
  We don't talk about those things.
• 1:50:26
  So this seems like there's some things I can talk about, but
• 1:50:29
  there's some things I can't. One young woman went into some
• 1:50:34
  detail about the coat, about the hill and said the flower, they
• 1:50:38
  all say the flowers. The flowers are notable.
• 1:50:42
  She said she could tell me the flowers emit energy.
• 1:50:48
  It's the energy of God's creation that they have an
• 1:50:52
  incredible smell. She described it as burnt
• 1:50:56
  energy. And I asked is that a good
• 1:50:59
  smell? And she said yes, it is, I think
• 1:51:04
  a burn. I think a wire shorting out or
• 1:51:06
  something. So then there was a young man
• 1:51:09
  that long ago we were, we were spelling and I'd met him before
• 1:51:13
  and he wanted to talk again. And when the Hill came up, he,
• 1:51:18
  you know, again, mention he's not supposed to talk about it.
• 1:51:22
  And I said to him, you know, the Telepathy Tapes is going to come
• 1:51:25
  out as a movie and it's going to be talking a lot about the Hill
• 1:51:30
  and it's not going to be a Christian perspective.
• 1:51:33
  Is there any chance I might be allowed to hear more so the
• 1:51:37
  world understands more about the hill and we can talk about what
• 1:51:44
  God would prefer people understand about it?
• 1:51:48
  Rather, you know, I'm privately thinking I don't want the new
• 1:51:52
  age commandeering the hill. I've already seen people taking
• 1:51:55
  the telepathy tapes and sprinting in different
• 1:51:59
  directions to support reincarnation and all kinds of
• 1:52:03
  beliefs that we wouldn't accept. And it was interesting, he said.
• 1:52:08
  That's a really good question. I'm going to pray and ask and
• 1:52:12
  I'll see if I'm allowed to tell you more.
• 1:52:14
  So we'll see. Stay tuned.
• 1:52:16
  So we don't know what the hell is, but it's heaven like.
• 1:52:20
  There doesn't seem to be a limit on the number one.
• 1:52:23
  If I ask how many people are there, they might say thousands.
• 1:52:26
  Have have you ever asked if Mary, the mother of Jesus is
• 1:52:29
  there? I have not one.
• 1:52:32
  I'm curious because I don't want to ask leading questions.
• 1:52:35
  That's fair, That's fair. One one woman from Mexico wrote
• 1:52:42
  to me maybe a couple weeks ago and her son is not spelling yet.
• 1:52:47
  He has non speaking autism, but he has a few words and he keeps
• 1:52:52
  asking for things related to Mary and he's talking about
• 1:52:58
  that. And the mother said to me he
• 1:53:00
  seems to have a devotion to Mary.
• 1:53:02
  I don't know how to answer that or what's happening.
• 1:53:07
  So, you know, maybe, I don't know, maybe he sees her on the
• 1:53:11
  hill. Giving him a big hug, Who knows?
• 1:53:16
  It's so beautiful to think of the provision of the Lord, how
• 1:53:21
  generous and gracious the Lord is.
• 1:53:23
  Yeah. And I think it gives me so much
• 1:53:26
  consolation, even just hearing about the consolation that these
• 1:53:30
  children and, and young adults are receiving.
• 1:53:33
  It's in, it's incredible. It also, I think, is very
• 1:53:36
  convicting, like we were talking about earlier, because I think
• 1:53:40
  we often see people with disabilities as less than, like
• 1:53:44
  you were saying earlier, we just passed by them and we don't
• 1:53:46
  really see them as God's image. And I also think about the
• 1:53:50
  abortion rate and the fact that kids with Down syndrome, as an
• 1:53:53
  example, it's 60, up to 8090% of these children are aborted in
• 1:53:58
  utero just because they have Down syndrome, often at 20 plus
• 1:54:02
  weeks. I and I've met now not nearly as
• 1:54:07
  many as autism, maybe about a dozen.
• 1:54:09
  And you know, of course their parents say they're the most
• 1:54:13
  beautiful, gentle spirits. They enrich our lives.
• 1:54:17
  And you know, this is a this the the prenatal testing and my wife
• 1:54:22
  and I the same as our kids. And I'm sure you when, you know,
• 1:54:26
  when we were pregnant, we met, we would you like testing?
• 1:54:29
  No, we never wanted to test. We, you know what, whatever God
• 1:54:33
  is sending us is what he intends for us.
• 1:54:36
  But the, the really, you know, the sort of the pernicious part
• 1:54:41
  of this, the really the ugly part of this is for people to
• 1:54:46
  think, oh, this is somehow less than a person.
• 1:54:49
  So we should take matters into our own hands.
• 1:54:53
  Why do I want a person who's less than?
• 1:54:55
  Well, people are born all the time.
• 1:54:59
  They might, you, you might think they're perfect.
• 1:55:01
  And then there were accidents and there were diseases.
• 1:55:03
  And do we give up on people when those things happen?
• 1:55:06
  Of course not. And this has been fascinating
• 1:55:09
  for me, Lila. And that is, I thought of it as
• 1:55:12
  a stairway. The first step was finding out,
• 1:55:16
  oh, they're in there. They're really, they're they're
• 1:55:19
  really they're they're intelligent.
• 1:55:21
  Their thoughts were. And Cody and I talk about all
• 1:55:24
  kinds of subjects. And there were times I'll just
• 1:55:26
  go over to him. We'll hug and I'll say, Cody, I
• 1:55:29
  just can't wait for heaven that when there's we can just, you
• 1:55:33
  know, talk about everything and we don't have to.
• 1:55:35
  And I've told him if something I say is meaningful to you, maybe
• 1:55:38
  pat me on the back and I'll start saying I'm talking
• 1:55:40
  something. And so he's patting me on the
• 1:55:43
  back like Joe, I'm so with you on this.
• 1:55:46
  And I I feel like at times he's read my thoughts.
• 1:55:49
  A lot of times I've gone in there and I'm sitting behind
• 1:55:52
  him. I slip him and he starts telling
• 1:55:55
  me, you know, Joe, you had a hard time with this and it's
• 1:55:58
  going to you know, the often knows what I'm things I'm
• 1:56:02
  thinking about. I've had that experience with a
• 1:56:05
  a good number of them. Some of them see people, they
• 1:56:08
  see colors, they see auras. They they're able to tell
• 1:56:12
  things. One was describing me in a
• 1:56:15
  meeting and said, you know, my, my mouth was purple.
• 1:56:18
  I think he said, which I asked his mother, was that a good
• 1:56:21
  thing? Oh yes, yes, purple means this
• 1:56:24
  or or that. What does purple mean?
• 1:56:27
  Well, it's associated with kind of truth and it's in the
• 1:56:31
  Scripture. You'll be maybe a royal color.
• 1:56:33
  It's, you know, or something. But he had said this law written
• 1:56:37
  on him was interesting. I said that was a lawyer.
• 1:56:40
  So they see things, they understand things like that's
• 1:56:43
  that's so common. I don't even count it.
• 1:56:47
  The stories about this, you know, Cody saw his grandmother
• 1:56:51
  received by Jesus. He saw his grandmother received.
• 1:56:54
  There's a little boy and his mom, Cody's.
• 1:57:01
  His mom was watching her mother. Cody's grandmother passed away.
• 1:57:04
  She was in bed at home. Her breathing was getting
• 1:57:07
  shallower and then she watched as she took her last breath.
• 1:57:11
  A moment. A minute later, Cody ran in the
• 1:57:14
  room all excited and was jumping up and down saying bye bye
• 1:57:19
  grandma, see you in heaven, Grandma, see you in heaven.
• 1:57:21
  He was able to get some words. How old was he?
• 1:57:24
  He might have been 8:00 or so 9 and so it wasn't until many
• 1:57:29
  years later he was spelling we she remembered that and I said
• 1:57:34
  let's ask him about it color. Do you remember when he knew the
• 1:57:37
  date again, he has an extraordinary memory for dates
• 1:57:40
  is common with autism. What did you say?
• 1:57:44
  Jesus came and took grandma when her spirit left, she was so
• 1:57:49
  happy. She was so comforted.
• 1:57:51
  You were really sad, Mom, because you couldn't see it.
• 1:57:54
  But don't worry, you're going to see Grandma and have it again.
• 1:57:57
  So there's all these stories. Or another one comes to mind.
• 1:58:03
  Gloria was in a hotel room and Cody's in another part of the
• 1:58:06
  room, and she was reading the manuscript.
• 1:58:09
  At that point I had sent her some chapters.
• 1:58:10
  Gloria is the mom. Gloria is the is the mom, right?
• 1:58:13
  Glory with an eye. And as she's reading, Cody
• 1:58:17
  suddenly says aloud. Elisha, Elisha like the prophet,
• 1:58:23
  she thought, that's interesting. I wonder why he said that.
• 1:58:26
  Well, she goes back to reading in the next paragraph I'm
• 1:58:29
  writing about, there's a story where the prophet Elisha is with
• 1:58:35
  his servant at the city of Dauphin.
• 1:58:39
  And I was addressing the subject.
• 1:58:41
  Do are there times somebody can see angels and somebody else
• 1:58:44
  doesn't? I said in this particular story,
• 1:58:48
  the servant is freaking out because all these enemy troops
• 1:58:51
  are there at the city, and Elijah says, don't worry,
• 1:58:55
  there's more with us than with them.
• 1:58:57
  Lord opened his eyes and then suddenly the servant is able to
• 1:59:00
  see the hillside is covered with Chariots of fire and angelic
• 1:59:05
  presence is. So she goes, Cody, the next
• 1:59:10
  spelling says, and she said, Cody, why?
• 1:59:12
  Why did you say, Elijah? Did you know I was about to read
• 1:59:15
  that? And Cody said, oh, Jesus told
• 1:59:18
  me. I said it because I want you to
• 1:59:20
  know I really do see angels. These stories happen.
• 1:59:25
  Unreal. So.
• 1:59:26
  So he's Cody, early 20s, non speaking autistic, is in a hotel
• 1:59:32
  room with his mother Glory. He's reading.
• 1:59:34
  On vacation, he's not looking at her screen.
• 1:59:37
  He's somewhere. Another part of the non
• 1:59:39
  speaking. So he doesn't have
• 1:59:40
  conversations, to be clear, and he's off in another part of the
• 1:59:44
  room. She's reading a manuscript that
• 1:59:46
  you wrote for like review purposes.
• 1:59:48
  This manuscript to coding Cody. And she's at the part where
• 1:59:51
  Elijah is. This is praying.
• 1:59:53
  Lord, let my servants see the angels that I see hasn't.
• 1:59:56
  Read that part yet? And she hears him saying her son
• 2:00:00
  Cody Elijah. Elijah.
• 2:00:01
  Does he often just say random stuff?
• 2:00:04
  Yeah, Cody. Oh my.
• 2:00:05
  Stand by. Yeah.
• 2:00:05
  Once in a while he'll say something kind of an 8.
• 2:00:08
  Times it might this be he's ref struggling with repeating.
• 2:00:12
  Other times it might mean something.
• 2:00:14
  But out of nowhere had he ever said Elijah before.
• 2:00:17
  Not that I'm aware of. So he just says Elijah.
• 2:00:19
  She's like, why is he saying Elijah?
• 2:00:21
  She keeps reading your book. It starts talking about Elijah
• 2:00:24
  and the Elijah Elijah, excuse me, and the belief of seeing,
• 2:00:27
  believing in in the truth of seeing, being able to see and
• 2:00:30
  hold Angel. Yeah, and I was just telling the
• 2:00:32
  story I was examining. Is it scriptural that there
• 2:00:36
  might be a time somebody sees angels and maybe others can't?
• 2:00:40
  Elisha could see in that dimension his serving could not.
• 2:00:45
  And Elisha prayed and the serving could.
• 2:00:48
  So those those stories happen frequently, those kinds of those
• 2:00:55
  kinds of events. And if the the stairway I was
• 2:00:59
  describing as the first step was they're really there.
• 2:01:04
  They have ideas, they have OK, we can get to know that we can
• 2:01:08
  love them. We can minister to them.
• 2:01:10
  The next step was, wait a minute.
• 2:01:13
  Not only are they there, they are gifts for us.
• 2:01:17
  I I read Josiah's fire sometimes on his Facebook account.
• 2:01:22
  Josiah writes like an Old Testament prophet.
• 2:01:25
  His his writings are profound. I put 1 chapter in the book
• 2:01:30
  about Elisha and Houston mention the books written about them and
• 2:01:34
  I just described the things that they say.
• 2:01:36
  When you read it, you say, is it possible there's this level of
• 2:01:40
  sophistication? There was a writer who wrote a
• 2:01:42
  book called An Author. The book was called Jesus,
• 2:01:46
  Josiah and Me. His name was Max Something and I
• 2:01:49
  just finished it. It's a brief book where Josiah
• 2:01:54
  reached out through his mom and was his mom, emailed this
• 2:01:57
  writer, this author, and was describing things she was going
• 2:02:01
  through. And he was so amazed.
• 2:02:03
  He wrote this book to show how precise these messages were.
• 2:02:08
  So now I'm seeing there a provision for us.
• 2:02:11
  Cody encourages me. He tells me to have faith and
• 2:02:15
  not worry about things. Then now there's another step
• 2:02:18
  higher up and that is they seem to be a provision for the
• 2:02:23
  greater body of Christ. Many of them have said to me,
• 2:02:28
  get ready, Jesus is returning soon.
• 2:02:32
  They're encouraging us to see people and love people and see
• 2:02:38
  them as Jesus does. So they've gone from the person
• 2:02:42
  not noticed to fully in there. But they have to get out to now.
• 2:02:49
  They're inspiring us and they can't.
• 2:02:52
  This is just the paradoxical ways of God.
• 2:02:55
  I quote extensively from Saint Augustine in the book where he
• 2:02:58
  writes about paradox. How God is always seeking but
• 2:03:03
  never needing, always, always loving, but always correctly.
• 2:03:08
  All these ways of seeing paradoxical to us, they seem to
• 2:03:12
  be so much more in tune with with our Creator and what he's
• 2:03:16
  thinking and what he's saying. So now I'm realizing, Oh my
• 2:03:20
  goodness, this was patronizing of me.
• 2:03:23
  I'm not here to be a pastor to him.
• 2:03:25
  Just, oh, let me encourage him. He's encouraging and instructing
• 2:03:30
  me and coming up with things I just can't imagine.
• 2:03:34
  And I'm meeting more and more of them and they're telling me
• 2:03:37
  stories and they're seeing things and I even see it with
• 2:03:41
  people who are high common question I get from people.
• 2:03:45
  I'm higher functioning autism. I don't see those things or I
• 2:03:49
  see it a little differently. Why is that?
• 2:03:52
  And I don't know, I'm not ready to talk about this yet, but I've
• 2:03:55
  had scientists and physicists and all kind of having fun and
• 2:04:01
  talking to me about quantum mechanics.
• 2:04:04
  I go, that's great, tell me more.
• 2:04:06
  Well, particles can affect each other at distance and they seem
• 2:04:10
  to be unrelated and there's energy.
• 2:04:12
  And it could be that they are more in tune with this, with how
• 2:04:17
  God is working through his creation.
• 2:04:20
  I'm going, well, this fascinating stuff, I sure want
• 2:04:23
  to chew on that a little longer and see what it might be about.
• 2:04:27
  So, yeah, they're, they're a blessing for us.
• 2:04:29
  That's again, that's why we started Hidden Gifts Ministry.
• 2:04:33
  And if people are listening and all they have this in there.
• 2:04:36
  You know, we have an autistic relative.
• 2:04:39
  I don't like to say autistic people, I don't like to define
• 2:04:41
  them by their autism. They prefer it's a person with
• 2:04:45
  autism. If people would like more
• 2:04:49
  information about that, they can go on the website
• 2:04:52
  hiddengiftsministry.org. Again, we're trying to put free
• 2:04:57
  resources on that. If people have financial needs,
• 2:04:59
  we're hoping eventually the scholarship some the nonprofit's
• 2:05:03
  know we have our 5O1C3 status. The website's only three or four
• 2:05:07
  months old, but we're getting a lot of ministries that want to
• 2:05:10
  link with us. Matt and Gloria are in the
• 2:05:13
  process of filming marriage marriage videos for families
• 2:05:18
  that start with We just got the news.
• 2:05:21
  What do we do? Autism diagnosis typically comes
• 2:05:23
  between 2:00 and 3:00. When milestones are missed in a
• 2:05:27
  child. We want to anticipate all these
• 2:05:30
  things. We even want to go into state
• 2:05:33
  and federal laws and benefits because people are at sea.
• 2:05:37
  What do I do with this? Do I have a right to have my
• 2:05:40
  child educated? And it varies greatly from
• 2:05:44
  states. So that's a complex picture, but
• 2:05:47
  we're going to try to address as much of it as we can.
• 2:05:50
  There's not a super load of content on it.
• 2:05:54
  A number of podcasts I've done are There Yours, when it posts
• 2:05:58
  is going to be prominent. I want to put it up top because
• 2:06:02
  you're so much in the space. People can also write to me.
• 2:06:06
  They can write us on the website.
• 2:06:08
  They can also reach me on Instagram at Pastor Joe
• 2:06:12
  Infranco. It's INFRANCOI.
• 2:06:16
  Get back to everybody. Be patient.
• 2:06:18
  If if there's a crush of emails, it may take some time, a couple
• 2:06:23
  weeks. If they're urgent, I'll try when
• 2:06:26
  people reach out through the website.
• 2:06:27
  A lot of times it's just help. I have a 14 year old kid.
• 2:06:32
  He's going through this phase. Madden, Glory, Cody's parents,
• 2:06:37
  Matt was a pastor. He we served together at church.
• 2:06:40
  He retired not long ago and he spends full time now trying to
• 2:06:45
  minister to parents. This is what we walk through.
• 2:06:48
  We get him and we're trying to give people hope.
• 2:06:52
  That's rings so loudly in my heart.
• 2:06:56
  I want people to be able to read the book or hear a podcast and
• 2:07:00
  feel like I have hope. I thought I was alone.
• 2:07:02
  I had a kid. I don't understand, maybe God
• 2:07:06
  has purposes in this that I've that I've not seen.
• 2:07:10
  Maybe in weakness he's bearing, he's making things strong.
• 2:07:14
  I love with the apostle Paul says in Second Corinthians in
• 2:07:18
  chapter 12. I want to say that he had a
• 2:07:21
  thorn in his flesh. He prayed 3 times and asked the
• 2:07:24
  Lord to remove it. And God's answer to him was my
• 2:07:28
  grace is sufficient for you Paul.
• 2:07:31
  My power is made perfect in weakness, and suddenly he got
• 2:07:36
  it. And it might have been the
• 2:07:37
  physical struggle he had, He mentions and when he wrote
• 2:07:40
  Galatians about his trial in the flesh.
• 2:07:44
  But suddenly he has a new way to see it.
• 2:07:46
  He says more gladly. Therefore I would rather boast
• 2:07:49
  about my weakness so that the power of Christ might dwell in
• 2:07:53
  me. Things are inverted.
• 2:07:56
  When we think we're strong, we're not.
• 2:07:57
  We're really weak in our weakness.
• 2:08:00
  When we trust in Christ, that's when God's strength operates in
• 2:08:04
  US. The world is topsy turvy.
• 2:08:07
  It's paradoxical, but that's because we have it wrong.
• 2:08:10
  The right way to see it is God's way.
• 2:08:12
  And as we go against the cultural norms, even in issues
• 2:08:17
  like how we treat end of life and abortion and all of these,
• 2:08:21
  the way we see people, the way we minister to the mothers in
• 2:08:25
  need. You know, I love pregnancy
• 2:08:26
  resource centers. They've been involved with them
• 2:08:29
  a long time. As a believer, my wife and I
• 2:08:31
  have always felt that's essential to reach women in
• 2:08:34
  crisis. When I was involved with Carinet
• 2:08:38
  on their board for a while, you know, we always talked about
• 2:08:43
  we're not only pro-life, we're pro abundant life.
• 2:08:47
  We want a fuller of understanding for people.
• 2:08:49
  We don't want repeat customers, We want transform lives.
• 2:08:55
  I so appreciate that you're involved in that space.
• 2:08:58
  So when the publisher said, oh, Lila Rose reset, I went grab it,
• 2:09:04
  you know, grab it. I want that one.
• 2:09:05
  So I get a lot of requests, but this one was special to me.
• 2:09:08
  I'm so glad you asked. Thank you, Joe.
• 2:09:10
  It's just incredible. And I know God is just getting
• 2:09:13
  started with your book, with your ministry, with the stories
• 2:09:18
  of all these incredible people. And I'm so excited to see real
• 2:09:22
  take and I just want to thank you are your yes and your
• 2:09:25
  fidelity and thank you to all of the wonderful people and their
• 2:09:28
  families that you've interviewed and that can help see help us
• 2:09:31
  see the face of Christ. It doesn't seem I thank you for
• 2:09:34
  saying that. It doesn't seem fair because I
• 2:09:36
  get so blessed from it. I'm thinking, boy, I had a good
• 2:09:39
  long legal career and I've done this and I've done that and now
• 2:09:42
  I feel like, well, you know, Moses didn't get his start till
• 2:09:45
  80. That's I feel like, Lord, why
• 2:09:48
  have you blessed me with this? I so love what I'm doing that I,
• 2:09:53
  I, I feel like I'm getting some kind of gift from the Lord that
• 2:09:57
  I don't understand. And when I'm getting these
• 2:10:01
  emails, we get come from all around the world.
• 2:10:04
  I did some shows, some podcasts that were based in Europe.
• 2:10:08
  And to just hear of these families saying we've never had
• 2:10:12
  hope before. We didn't it, it, it just, I,
• 2:10:15
  I'm just walking on air. I'm so grateful to the Lord for
• 2:10:20
  the opportunity to do it. And my constant prayer with it.
• 2:10:23
  Lila is please, Lord, let me not mess this up.
• 2:10:26
  You know, so you have to so much of our lives, we struggle with
• 2:10:31
  pride and all kinds of things. And to try to get out of the way
• 2:10:36
  to, to let let him increase while we decrease.
• 2:10:41
  That's the that's the struggle, but that's the that's the goal.
• 2:10:45
  Thank you so much, Joe Decoding Cody, People can get it wherever
• 2:10:48
  they find their books and we will link your amazing ministry
• 2:10:52
  and resources. Thank you so much.
• 2:10:54
  Joe, thank you so much. It's amazing thanks so much for
• 2:10:56
  listening to this episode of the Lila Rose Show.
• 2:10:59
  I hope you enjoyed it Make sure that you hit that subscribe
• 2:11:01
  button over 60% of you are still not subscribed.
• 2:11:04
  And also leave us a like and a comment.
• 2:11:06
  I read all the comments. Also you can check us out over
• 2:11:09
  at patreon.com/lila Rose Show. We've got some bonus content
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• 2:11:29
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