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Matthew Chapters 6 - 7 Q&A: Bible Study by Atheists · Sacrilegious Discourse - Bible Study for Atheists

• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's bad.
• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why?
• 0:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you know what we're still doing today?
• 0:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we started a Q&A yesterday for Matthews, chapters 5 through 7, but it ran a bit long.
• 0:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: It did.
• 0:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're trying to cover the sermon on the mount, which is, as you said, Matthew, chapters 5, 6 and 7, and chapter 5 was a lot.
• 0:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so it was basically just a Q&A over chapter five yesterday.
• 0:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, and the sermon itself, sure, covered some, yeah.
• 0:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Some so many places.
• 0:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: But if you got up to an hour and we're like, you know, that we probably should make this like a three hour episode.
• 0:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: So six and seven can suck it.
• 0:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: They get their own show.
• 0:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's what we're doing today.
• 0:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're finishing the servant on the mount, chapters six and seven of Little Maddie.
• 0:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, more Jesus.
• 0:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yay!
• 0:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I know I love that for us.
• 0:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, whatever.
• 0:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's kind of what we do, right?
• 0:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Wait, no, I do love that for us.
• 1:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, me and a way, and a weird atheist way.
• 1:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right, yeah.
• 1:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, so that's, we're doing Matthew chapter six and seven Q&A, and are you ready to get into this?
• 1:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure's fucking.
• 1:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's do it.
• 1:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, okay.
• 1:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
• 1:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: So continuing the sermon on the mount.
• 1:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 1:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: We have a little bit of a change.
• 1:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of good that we stopped where we did at the end of chapter five.
• 1:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because we have a little bit of change in style.
• 1:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 1:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Chapter five focused a lot on ethics and reinterpretations of the law.
• 1:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like there was a lot of you have heard it said.
• 1:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 1:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then I would go back and look up where was it said?
• 1:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, and I remember you said it in the last episode that this was like math.
• 1:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Matthew or whoever wrote fucking Matthew took different probably took different sands and bunched them all together into one speech.
• 1:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 2:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: So the reason we got style changes in the first place is probably because this isn't actually one speech that actually happened.
• 2:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a bunch of different ones stuck all together.
• 2:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
• 2:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: As usual, they staple things in place.
• 2:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so, yeah, chapter five was a lot of me pulling from the first five books of the Old Testament, the pen to two.
• 2:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 2:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, where it was originally scripted.
• 2:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 2:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: And chapter six, it shifts a little bit more towards motivation and inner sincerity.
• 2:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: which isn't necessarily far off from what he was talking about anyway.
• 2:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 2:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: A recurring theme in the terminal of the Mount as a whole is, are you doing this for God or for the grand for applause?
• 2:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm assuming there's not as much prophecy stuffing going on in this section in these sections, I guess.
• 2:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's just more like, hey, so here's what I want you to do.
• 3:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 3:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And less member, member, member, member when he said, member when my father, member when God said this, yeah.
• 3:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's more just, okay, so here's what we're going to do.
• 3:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 3:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
• 3:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: A huge amount of chapter six is a criticism of conspicuous morality, religious branding, public virtue displays, and wealth obsession.
• 3:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: I did love these.
• 3:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 3:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 3:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: We, we had, um,
• 3:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: things to say.
• 3:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: We had things to say about how current it's to make.
• 3:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 3:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 3:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 3:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: A word that Jesus uses repeatedly throughout chapter six is the word hypocrite.
• 3:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that comes from high, high poll crites.
• 3:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's the Greek, which originally meant stage actor or someone performing a role.
• 3:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 3:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's where the word hypocrite comes from.
• 4:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 4:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: So when Jesus is attacking hypocrites, he's often accusing people of performing righteousness theatrically, which connects strongly to social media, morality,
• 4:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: image, curation, and virtues.
• 4:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: This wasn't lost over the last 2,000 years on me.
• 4:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no.
• 4:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: I would very much enjoyed the the calling out the performance of religious and you know, whatever.
• 4:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that Jesus is seeing, you know, stop posing for the ground, stop being performative.
• 4:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 4:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, that's what this whole chapter in particular.
• 4:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, the sermon on the mount in general, but chapter six in particular focuses on stop posing for the Graham.
• 4:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 4:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 4:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: So posing for the Graham being in the reference to Instagram.
• 4:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm assuming, okay.
• 4:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry.
• 4:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just a spell.
• 4:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: I haven't spelled it out because I had never heard that term until just now.
• 4:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Are you serious?
• 5:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: I got it through context, but like, yeah, no, I've never heard that.
• 5:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's okay, I did it for the end.
• 5:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you tend to just take like, you know, pop culture references.
• 5:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and just run with it like everybody knows it.
• 5:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because I'm 50.
• 5:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I assume if I know of pop culture reference, everybody knows it.
• 5:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I've been told repeatedly that I should not assume that.
• 5:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that just because somebody else doesn't know it.
• 5:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't make them stupid, bad or wrong.
• 5:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think you know more pop culture references than most kids these days.
• 5:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: I would argue that because there are so many things that we have a 21 year old and they will come and explain something to me that I've never heard of and I'm always disappointed like, oh, man, because I want to be right, that they feel the thing is the difference between you and me is that you run into research on that new thing and I don't give a shit.
• 5:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not just
• 5:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like earlier today, I made a pop culture reference that was from the 80s.
• 6:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: So you get neither the one from our childhood.
• 6:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't hear any 80s and I don't care now.
• 6:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 6:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 6:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: So.
• 6:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know where I was going with that other than uncle and you are a fatty daddy.
• 6:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
• 6:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: In my head.
• 6:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm fine with that.
• 6:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
• 6:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it chapter six starts out with Jesus doing teachings on alms giving, giving alms to the poor.
• 6:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Alms alms for the poor, alms.
• 6:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: He warns against doing this kind of thing just to be seen by others.
• 6:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: and he also gives some examples of the wrong kind of giving versus the right kind of giving.
• 6:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
• 6:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 6:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: He says, be so unconcerned with praise that even you are obsessing over how virtuous you are.
• 6:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: show.
• 6:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean that if you're going to give gift because it's the right thing to do when you want to do it.
• 7:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Of course.
• 7:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 7:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: To me, that's the only way you should give.
• 7:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like for example, you and I don't really have extra money to throw around.
• 7:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, we don't.
• 7:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: But we talk all the time about places that we would want to invest our money.
• 7:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like as far as donations, right?
• 7:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
• 7:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: And
• 7:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're not because we want some sort of reciprocation or any other things we would like to support these things, right?
• 7:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: We want to help them.
• 7:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: We want to do.
• 7:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: more to help this world and do better in it, you know?
• 7:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Whether it's small and dependent artists versus large well-known artists, versus things like PBS and MPR versus...
• 7:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Religion, foundation, things like that.
• 7:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 7:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, across the board, just different people and organizations, whether it's in the arts or atheism, or do good kinds of things.
• 7:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, and this is why we would never be super, you know, Elon Musk rich because we would just give our fucking money away and I'm fine with that.
• 8:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that is the way to be, you know, like why would you get your wealth?
• 8:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: I would, right, but I don't do this because of Jesus.
• 8:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, right, I do it because it's the right thing to do.
• 8:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 8:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because it's the thing that would make a difference in this world to help other human beings be better in their lives and to me, what is this world if we're not helping each other?
• 8:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, this sounds so fucking cheesy, but when we had more money when the kids were little, one of my favorite favorite favorite things was Christmas time and we had money to buy for like friends and family and stuff like that.
• 8:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I love buying gifts for people.
• 8:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: not because it reflects back on me, but because I find so much pleasure in seeing something and saying, oh, someone's so would love that.
• 8:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: That is the perfect thing for them.
• 8:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: They would so enjoy this and just knowing what somebody else would want or need or enjoy.
• 9:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: That gives me happiness and that's why I would do it.
• 9:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: way back probably on another podcast episode.
• 9:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know I've mentioned it before, but one of my favorite Christmas's ever was one where our entire family decided to be a kid.
• 9:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: When I was a kid, our entire family instead of buying presents for each other, they everybody decided to craft or build or make a gift for everybody.
• 9:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it was a
• 9:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: everything that was given or got that Christmas at our family get together was a something that somebody else made.
• 9:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it was really cool.
• 9:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's really cool.
• 9:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: I love that idea.
• 9:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just think it's fun to give people things and I love supporting organizations and I just love giving.
• 9:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: I love giving.
• 9:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think everybody should love giving.
• 9:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: I agree.
• 9:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: public benefactors in the ancient Mediterranean world often wanted recognition.
• 10:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: I talked a lot about this in the previous chapter that they would make a big show out of the doing good and versus the being punished.
• 10:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: They made a big spectacle out of punishing and retribution.
• 10:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they wanted recognition for donations, particularly because they could buy honor, social status, political influence and religious prestige.
• 10:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of that hasn't changed.
• 10:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I think that's very much still the way a lot of things work.
• 10:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: You buy your way in through donations through.
• 10:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I know our president here in America recognizes anybody with money as a worthy individual.
• 10:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: at least for a minute.
• 10:53
  [UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
• 10:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: So Jesus in his sermons, he's pushing back against that system.
• 11:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's like being really like almost just revolting against, you know, he's like striking up a rebellion.
• 11:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: And
• 11:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, me and you had kind of talked about this particularly in chapter six that, um, I was like, well, no, he's preaching to the rich, telling them to get up off their money and you said, no, but what if he's actually preaching like to the poor and telling them, you know,
• 11:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: about oppression and you are like, what if it's like the fox news of today telling the poor or telling the rich, you're fine, you're fine, ignore the gas prices and telling the poor, you can totally afford everything.
• 11:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Don't believe you're lying, guys.
• 11:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I was pushing back on that.
• 11:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: It turns out I was wrong.
• 11:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: You knew Jesus.
• 11:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Jesus was being that rebel that that liar but for good that that so you were closer to the truth of it.
• 12:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nice.
• 12:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
• 12:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 12:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, this chapter is totally critiquing, um, virtue signaling.
• 12:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 12:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we're going to get into some examples of that.
• 12:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 12:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, um,
• 12:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to start with the Lord's Prayer, and I'm just going to re-read it here just for reference of what the fuck we're talking about.
• 12:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: How it is in our interpretation or in our translation and that matters.
• 12:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 12:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Different translations have it a little bit different.
• 12:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right, right.
• 12:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 12:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Our is inverses 9 through 13.
• 12:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: This then is how you should pray.
• 12:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Our Father in Heaven, how it would be thy name.
• 12:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry, how would be your name?
• 12:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Your kingdom come, your will be done on Earth as it is in heaven.
• 12:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Give us today our daily bread and forgive us our debts as we also have forgiven our debtors and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from the evil one.
• 12:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then a lot of other translations are us didn't, but a lot of others translations will add for yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever, amen.
• 13:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: That was part of one, the one I learned.
• 13:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that was part of the song that I learned.
• 13:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
• 13:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not certain that everybody that is a secular atheist audience might know, but a devotional is this thing where every day you're sent a different verse from the Bible random.
• 13:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's a verse.
• 13:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: from the Bible, and then it's a little interpretation of it, and how you should apply it in your life today, and here's a prayer you should pray about it.
• 14:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it might either be like you're on an email list or a subscription or there's a little pamphlet that's called the Daily Bread.
• 14:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's where they got that from.
• 14:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's where the title comes from, Daily Bread, give us a day or daily bread.
• 14:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Good.
• 14:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: the title of the daily devotional or daily bread.
• 14:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: The Bible got it from that.
• 14:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, wait, that doesn't work out.
• 14:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, no.
• 14:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Timeline-wise.
• 14:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, you had it.
• 14:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, whatever.
• 14:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 14:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 14:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I was like, so what is daily bread?
• 14:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, like, what does that mean that somebody would find it so, like, give us this daily bread dinner, and then somebody else would be like, that is so spiritual.
• 14:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's make a daily devotional about it.
• 14:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 14:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Daily bread is linguistically mysterious actually because the Greek word for daily is super bizarre and extremely rare as it appears in that particular verse.
• 15:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 15:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: It that word that's used there barely appears anywhere else in any surviving Greek literature as a whole.
• 15:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
• 15:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's used in the Bible.
• 15:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's like,
• 15:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 15:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: So scholars debate whether it actually means daily necessary sufficient for the coming day supernatural future bread.
• 15:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: I really like that one.
• 15:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Super natural.
• 15:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: So there's a question about the daily bread.
• 15:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 15:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 15:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
• 15:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 15:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Some ancient translators at like as they were taking it from the Greek.
• 15:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 15:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: They were already confused by that term.
• 15:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's how wow.
• 15:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Not often how rare it was in use already got it.
• 15:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so that that that line alone could be interpreted most ways
• 15:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yes and no, like, the list that I gave you daily necessary sufficient, they're all kind of.
• 16:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I think the basic message is similar.
• 16:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: The message doesn't change.
• 16:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just write it interesting because this means that one of Christianity's most famous prayers, so famous that even you and I, not raised in religious homes, no, at my heart.
• 16:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: we knew it by heart and it contains a word that nobody actually knows what it means that nobody scholars can't even agree on it.
• 16:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Very interesting.
• 16:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
• 16:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 16:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, okay.
• 16:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
• 16:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: What did we say?
• 16:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 16:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so then we move on from there to Jesus teaching about fasting, the right way to fast.
• 16:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: He don't me.
• 16:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 16:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: But there was a thing that said, just oil your fucking beard, right?
• 16:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you were like, oh, you're beard.
• 16:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why?
• 16:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I couldn't look into that a little bit just to make sure we had a good understanding.
• 16:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I was right on that one.
• 16:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: All of oil functioned partly like moisturizer, hair product perfume and hygiene.
• 17:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: They used it to clean their body.
• 17:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Not just like,
• 17:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, spiritually clean cleanse, but like to actually, you know, it was the shampoo of ancient times.
• 17:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, and also like it kept away bugs and stuff like that because, you know, your skin is oily when you have that on.
• 17:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 17:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, um, this was a big deal.
• 17:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, remember we talked in the last episode about the importance of salt to that culture during the time.
• 17:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 17:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um,
• 17:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: In this episode, we'll talk a little bit about the importance of oil, like olive oil, not just gasoline oil, oil, crude oil.
• 17:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, olive oil was very, very important.
• 17:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, very important region in that time, you know.
• 17:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: In the dry climate of the ancient Near East, oiling your hair, your beard, your skin was part of everyday grooming.
• 17:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: So Jesus is basically saying at that time, look normal.
• 18:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Don't make that statement in the end.
• 18:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Just do your normal shit.
• 18:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 18:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, don't be weird.
• 18:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 18:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, he's saying all the time don't be an asshole.
• 18:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Don't be a dick, don't be weird.
• 18:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we've got, don't be an asshole, no, we've got don't be weird.
• 18:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 18:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 18:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: So then we move on to the place of material things, a warning against covetousness.
• 18:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we get the treasures in heaven and the light of the body and the choice between two treasures and the choice between two visions.
• 18:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you remember any of that.
• 18:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I remember what I was talking about, like how a lot of bezels are going to be fucked.
• 18:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for sure, for sure.
• 18:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: If it weren't to be true that, you know, God were real or something.
• 18:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, yeah, totally.
• 18:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Again, again, not so it is after all any of these podcasts.
• 18:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 18:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but just to read versus 22 and 23, the eye is the lamp of the body.
• 19:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: If your eyes are healthy, your whole body will be full of light.
• 19:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: But if your eyes are unhealthy, your whole body will be full of darkness.
• 19:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness?
• 19:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Remember, we were like, that sounds so fucking ableist.
• 19:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, fuck you with your life.
• 19:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: You have a cataract, you're fucked.
• 19:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right.
• 19:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, um, but then I looked into it and I was like, oh yeah, do you remember when we did this whole episode about the evil eye?
• 19:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, it was one of our special offshoot episodes and maybe maybe vaguely vaguely, but it was seems like it was a long time ago.
• 19:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't that long ago.
• 19:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was within the last two years for sure.
• 19:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 19:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: For sure.
• 19:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't that long ago.
• 19:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Got it.
• 19:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: And um, in Jewish idioms, a good eye often means generosity, sincerity, and moral clarity.
• 19:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: So a healthy eye is going to be an empathetic
• 19:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 20:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 20:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it has more to do with actions than with actual physical and not just actions, but your your spiritual being.
• 20:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 20:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like the way you are thinking about it.
• 20:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
• 20:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: So if your eyes are healthy, means if your eyes are generous, if your outlook is generous.
• 20:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 20:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, yeah.
• 20:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: An evil eye meant greed and v stinginess or selfishness.
• 20:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: So a bad eye is basically corrupted values.
• 20:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: So where it says if your eyes are unhealthy, it's basically saying if you are a stingy son of a bitch.
• 20:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's shorthand for the time or whatever they used it as meaning these other things, basically.
• 20:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 20:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: people genuinely believe that envy or greed could radiate harmful power through the eyes.
• 20:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: The reason is because, I mean, you're laughing, but like I'm totally remembering back to our episode that we did over evil eye.
• 20:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, you're you're missing interpreting why I'm laughing.
• 20:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm laughing because as soon as you said that, the first thing that came to my mind is, oh, Superman channeled all of his evil and greed through his eyes.
• 21:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's how he did it.
• 21:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's what yeah, whole lander in the bull.
• 21:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he's he's got too much to even channel through.
• 21:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 21:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 21:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 21:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 21:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: That guy.
• 21:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: That guy.
• 21:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: That show was so off the hook that we haven't watched the last two seasons.
• 21:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I really want to.
• 21:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I really want to.
• 21:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I feel like we got to watch one tonight.
• 21:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not for it.
• 21:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, no.
• 21:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're still working through Picard.
• 21:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I tried to try that one out.
• 21:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, we're working through Star Trek Picard.
• 21:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe at the end, we're on season two, Star Trek Picard.
• 21:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: After season two, maybe we'll take a break from Star Trek and we'll watch them of the boys.
• 21:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 21:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I don't know.
• 21:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that show is so fucking gruesome.
• 21:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: It really is.
• 21:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's very, it's grotesque and gruesome.
• 21:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Fantastic.
• 21:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: In Fantastic, but it is not for the faint of heart.
• 21:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: No.
• 21:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: No.
• 21:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I am faint of heart.
• 22:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: So.
• 22:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 22:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have.
• 22:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have both missed the characters and the storyline and the struggle.
• 22:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I have not missed.
• 22:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it could definitely trigger some trauma.
• 22:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 22:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah.
• 22:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Warning.
• 22:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 22:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 22:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 22:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Warning.
• 22:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 22:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Anybody that might think about watching this because of her.
• 22:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: review of it.
• 22:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean we were telling kid kid is 21 just to clarify like I'm not telling my child the, you know, you should totally watch this, like, be sexual.
• 22:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: We were telling our 21 year old, actually you'd probably like this show a lot because kid has a very dark twist of sense of humor.
• 22:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I was explaining how Hugh like got his origin story, how he got pulled into Hughie, how he got pulled into the world of the supers, you know?
• 22:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, his girlfriend.
• 22:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was pretty terrible.
• 22:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, it was terrible.
• 22:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: It started to a series.
• 22:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, what's the fuck?
• 22:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was immediate and it only got worse from there.
• 23:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 23:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: And Kib was looking at me with eyes just like, their eyebrows were on top of their head.
• 23:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they were like, what the fuck is wrong with you that you think I would like this?
• 23:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: And why do you like this?
• 23:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: And like you can't explain the show to somebody else and sound saying.
• 23:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's true.
• 23:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's true.
• 23:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because how do you like that?
• 23:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: It sounds absolutely terrible.
• 23:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: How could you possibly like that?
• 23:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 23:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so bad.
• 23:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're not going to even describe what happened because it's really bad.
• 23:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's so bad.
• 23:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 23:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Chain ran through her.
• 23:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay.
• 23:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, listen, listen.
• 23:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we're talking about eyes.
• 23:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, back to eyes.
• 23:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Your eye is like your desires, okay?
• 23:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because the eyes are like,
• 23:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: into your soul, right?
• 23:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Your desire, shape your life because what you focus on shapes your emotional world, where your treasure is, your heart follows.
• 24:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: And this idiom appears elsewhere in ancient Jewish literature.
• 24:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: As ancient people are often, as ancient people often treated the eye as the gateway of desire, the gateway to the soul, intention, perception, moral orientation.
• 24:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think there is some truth behind that as to what you choose to focus on, what you choose to do.
• 24:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: But it doesn't have anything like the eye itself is not like this magical entity in your body.
• 24:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: But it does translate okay into a secular viewpoint, like it's not
• 24:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there's a reason why we say, look me straight in the eye and tell me the truth.
• 24:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because you can glean something from how someone reacts, or what someone is speaking, right?
• 24:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, unless they're, you know, sociopaths.
• 24:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 24:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 24:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Or if you're really bad at reading people.
• 24:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 24:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's that, too.
• 24:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, some people are actors.
• 24:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
• 24:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, and that's just it.
• 24:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's ways around it, even if you're not a sociopath.
• 25:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I mean, so it's not perfect.
• 25:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: But it is something that we, as humans,
• 25:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: learned.
• 25:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: We learned that we can kind of gauge another human being by the way they're reacting to us by the way they're looking at us by the way they're interacting and all that.
• 25:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean that's why that whole episode about the evil eye.
• 25:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: I can't believe you don't remember it.
• 25:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: I vaguely remember covering it.
• 25:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like there were times when if somebody glared at your baby, it was thought that they gave the baby the evil eye.
• 25:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I do remember that.
• 25:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 25:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so like they had to have little charms or they had to like draw little designs or crib to ward off.
• 25:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: the evil eye because intentions matter and you can tell somebody's intentions, supposedly, by what's in their eye.
• 25:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so when Jesus discusses the eye as a lamp or light or darkness, ancient listeners heard layers that modern readers might miss.
• 26:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: So when he is like,
• 26:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, if your eyes are healthy, blah, blah, blah.
• 26:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And like, what did we hear?
• 26:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're like, oh, so if you're blind, you're fucked.
• 26:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Got it.
• 26:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 26:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, ableist and like, yes, but no because Jesus is like, dude, I'm not fucking talking about your actual God damn eyes.
• 26:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 26:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 26:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, oh, my bad.
• 26:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you should be more clear because you are the son of God.
• 26:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 26:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 26:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, how could I know?
• 26:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, the next bit we get to this is so interesting.
• 26:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember the whole um you can't serve two masters?
• 26:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 26:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 26:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: So our translation did not use the word god versus memo on.
• 26:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 26:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 26:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
• 26:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I'm so sorry.
• 26:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's a doctor's strange reference because I do love me some Benedict Cumberback Yeah, but that's not what we're here to talk about.
• 27:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, the two masters are God and Memon and so When I saw this in my notes because all the other translations are you cannot serve God and Memon and I was like, I'm sorry, excuse me What's up?
• 27:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: What's up Memon?
• 27:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah
• 27:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Most of them say you can't serve like God and money, right?
• 27:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
• 27:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so, and there is a tie there.
• 27:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 27:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: My mom is not exactly a demon name in the text originally.
• 27:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's an aeromatic word meaning wealth, property, material resources, and possessions.
• 27:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 27:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: And Jesus probably originally spoke this line in aeromatic.
• 27:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then the gospel writers rendered it into Greek.
• 27:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: while preserving that particular Semitic word.
• 27:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so, Memon is not actually a proper noun.
• 27:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a descriptive noun.
• 27:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not a name, it's a thing.
• 28:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, you know what I mean?
• 28:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: I sure.
• 28:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that thing is breedingness and money.
• 28:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 28:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 28:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Which eventually Christians turned into a demon.
• 28:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Of course.
• 28:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm money.
• 28:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't.
• 28:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 28:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 28:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: At first, it just meant wealth viewed as something to be trusted.
• 28:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And, and Memon has a much broader emotional sense than the word money carries.
• 28:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's why they didn't use the word.
• 28:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: for money.
• 28:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: It didn't just say it meant much more.
• 28:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 28:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: It encompassed much more.
• 28:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't just money.
• 28:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was wealth.
• 28:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it wasn't just wealth.
• 28:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was wealth as power as security as an object of devotion.
• 28:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 28:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 28:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, the economic system as your master.
• 28:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Got it.
• 28:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 28:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 28:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I mean, it was which is full system.
• 28:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Very interesting.
• 28:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Very relevant to me.
• 28:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Capitalism does not equate well with.
• 28:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 28:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 29:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, like it doesn't have something to say about capitalism, y'all.
• 29:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure.
• 29:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: I can't speak for the whole fucking Gospels.
• 29:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: I can't speak for the whole New Testament.
• 29:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: I can't say that Matthew up through chapter seven has something to fucking say about capitalism.
• 29:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he is not pleased.
• 29:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Y'all doing this wrong, okay?
• 29:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: um it's closer to the negative connotation of materialism or wealth as a ruling force.
• 29:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 29:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: And many translators feel that the word money loses its punch.
• 29:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I will say that's the way we read it and yeah it definitely did not carry the same punch.
• 29:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 29:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 29:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Wait.
• 29:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Memon definitely.
• 29:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: whether demon or you know wealth as a whole system.
• 29:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 29:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like that's definitely different from just like don't worship money.
• 29:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 29:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 29:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: In later Christian tradition, especially medieval literature, Memon became personified as a demon, the prince of greed, and the entire embodiment of avarice.
• 30:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 30:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, just think of like the monopoly man walking around with like dollar signs and his eyeballs, and that's Memon.
• 30:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 30:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 30:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 30:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: You see this, especially in medieval sermons, morality plays, which would have been from that same time period and then later art in literature.
• 30:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: So by the time John Milton wrote Paradise Lost, Maman is basically a full infernal character associated with greed and earthly wealth.
• 30:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 30:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Totally not biblical though, right?
• 30:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, that's not a demon y'all.
• 30:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 30:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's very much a later development and not what Matthew originally meant.
• 30:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: or Jesus.
• 30:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 30:51
  [UNKNOWN]: Exactly.
• 30:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like you say Matthew because he's the one he or his accolades or his followers or whatever his crowd.
• 31:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's the one that wrote this shit.
• 31:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Or stapled it together.
• 31:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 31:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like we the truth is we don't fucking know.
• 31:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, whether Jesus said it or not Matthew is the one that wrote it down.
• 31:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And by Matthew, I mean Matthew, et cetera.
• 31:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
• 31:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 31:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 31:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's why I say Matthew has some things to say.
• 31:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: And Matthew did was not, that's not what Matthew meant.
• 31:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I feel like because it's in the red print and Jesus said it.
• 31:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
• 31:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: It strikes a stronger chord, if you say Jesus.
• 31:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't want to say that little because I know that there's different people that are like, you know what Jesus also said, and we're going to get to those and they're going to undo what this guy said that Jesus said.
• 31:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: One of those, that's Paul, that says some of those things.
• 31:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, in a different part of the New Testament, Matthews like Jesus said this, and then we're going to get to a place where Paul's like,
• 31:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, and we can argue those in due time.
• 32:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right, but knowing that that's coming, that's why I'm like, according to Matthew.
• 32:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
• 32:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Again, first book of the New Testament.
• 32:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 32:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is how it opens.
• 32:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, you put your strong enough up front, right?
• 32:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 32:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: You got to get that good opener.
• 32:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
• 32:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm just,
• 32:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: the reason I mean we covered this too the reason that Matthew came first even though he wrote his gospel after Mark wrote his and Matthew got a lot of his shit from Mark again probably not Mark and Matthew but the book of Matthew got a lot of its material from the book of Mark which came
• 32:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: They put Matthew first because he was speaking more to a Jewish audience and related more to Judaism.
• 32:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
• 32:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he was a tax collector.
• 32:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I didn't know he was a... You did know that because...
• 32:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know that.
• 32:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: You did know that.
• 32:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know that.
• 32:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that.
• 32:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that.
• 32:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know that.
• 32:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know that.
• 32:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know that.
• 32:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know that.
• 32:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that.
• 32:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that.
• 32:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that.
• 33:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we discussed it in intro to who the fuck a Matthew, but it didn't stick because who cares.
• 33:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then we talked about member how tax collectors are hated.
• 33:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I should have said at the time, and Matthew was one.
• 33:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: So he would know.
• 33:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 33:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 33:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 33:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, that actually.
• 33:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 33:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 33:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
• 33:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: So moving on, we're almost done with chapter six.
• 33:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: We move to the final versus of the chapter where he talks about the place of material things and having anxiety over that.
• 33:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we were like,
• 33:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: whether you worry or have concern.
• 33:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember that?
• 33:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it was like, well, I mean, if you're worrying and you have your blood pressure go up, and you go to the doctor to have that checked, then it was good that you worried about it, right?
• 33:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: so worry can be helpful.
• 33:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then I clarified, I think that that would fall more under the realm of concern and being positive and taking care of something, then needless worry, which the word that came up a lot was anxiety in my notes.
• 34:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what Jesus was referring to.
• 34:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 34:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Needless anxiety and panic and running around.
• 34:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: not just like, hey, I'm really concerned about this.
• 34:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to make a plan to take care of it.
• 34:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 34:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
• 34:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 34:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's not talking about.
• 34:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: frivolousness, like he wants you to take care of your shit.
• 34:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 34:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 34:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Anxiety as a condition was treated as spiritually corrosive.
• 34:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the chapter repeatedly says, do not worry.
• 34:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the Greek word for worry here has the sense of being divided, mentally pulled apart in multiple directions and being consumed by so many different carriers.
• 34:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: interesting to me because I feel like what happened in ancient times is that mental diseases got categorized as spiritual wrongness, right?
• 35:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: These are things that are able to be treated now and diagnosed and made better generally speaking if someone cares to do so.
• 35:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: But because there was no way to do that back then,
• 35:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: these things were viewed as a stigma, like as something bad and wrong with somebody, and therefore spiritually bad or wrong as well, which leads to, in my opinion, kind of the whole stigma of mental health, like it's a stigma even back in ancient times.
• 35:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's always been a statement, yeah, which really sucks for women who are more likely to have their hormones out of whack, and therefore more likely to be inclined to have that side.
• 35:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, so once again, women always suffer.
• 35:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, but to get back to this, the issue is not merely concern or planning, like I said, it's instead closer to chronic fragmentation of attention, and this is remarkably compatible with, as you said, modern psychology.
• 36:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: This really hit home for me because some of the terminology that came up in my notes was rumination, anxiety spirals, attention capture, and stress fixation.
• 36:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Those are all words that people who are neurodivergent, particularly those suffering from ADHD and or OCD.
• 36:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we'll have those.
• 36:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 36:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I was like, oh shit, I'd be in all kinds of like, one of the things that I'm working with my OCD therapist on is rumination in particular, have a really,
• 36:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: bad struggle with that.
• 37:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 37:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I would have been all kinds of fucked.
• 37:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: And Jesus, it would have been like, stop.
• 37:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, dude, I'm taking medication for it.
• 37:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I am working with a therapist.
• 37:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know what Jesus would have thought of medication.
• 37:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: I, that's actually a modern day argument that yeah, my mom has spoken to various pastors as she has church-opt to get their opinion on whether or not she is allowed by their church to take medication.
• 37:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's not.
• 37:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's why she checks with the pastor because she's like, I'm taking my medication.
• 37:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: I need a church where Jesus says it's cool.
• 37:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: That is so, but that alone, that is so fucking ridiculous.
• 37:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: You have to church shop the find a church that is okay with you helping your own, your own medical issues.
• 38:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 38:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's insane.
• 38:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's why the church needs to get out of relationships that it should exist only between you and your doctor.
• 38:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: unbelievable.
• 38:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's that's not good.
• 38:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you shouldn't have said that.
• 38:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, I know.
• 38:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: I did.
• 38:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm catching myself insane.
• 38:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: I apologize.
• 38:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Good catch.
• 38:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: I have to I have to rain myself in, and I'm sure I say it all the times and forget, but
• 38:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: We do use incorrect language and we are fallible to that and we do try to catch ourselves because we do want to be inclusive and we never want to be harmful and say things that were
• 38:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: at one point acceptable by society, not acceptable by today's standards, right?
• 38:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I know somebody always will push back and say, well, it was never acceptable.
• 38:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, I don't think that word means what you think it means.
• 38:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: The fact that people were walking around fucking saying it means that it was acceptable by society as a whole, right, accepted it.
• 39:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's why they did it.
• 39:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Not was it good that they did that?
• 39:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: No.
• 39:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, that's why the language changed.
• 39:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 39:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, yeah, we try to be good and we try to call ourselves out.
• 39:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: So good job husband.
• 39:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, thanks.
• 39:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Good job on sucking and then owning it.
• 39:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't.
• 39:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, sure.
• 39:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, moving on, he goes a lot into anxiety and anxiety spirals, and he's like, don't.
• 39:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 39:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then from there, he goes into having, it was, it was the whole thing with the birds of the air.
• 39:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember that?
• 39:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: He was talking about the birds?
• 39:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: No.
• 39:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 39:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: The, it was an argument for, um, pursuing birth, okay, hold on.
• 40:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: because the kingdom of God is so greatly superior to earthly pursuits, it deserves our attention.
• 40:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Examples and arguments against worry, such as consider the birds of the air, who they don't hoard.
• 40:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: They just form them and they just go about their business and they don't store up.
• 40:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: and then it was like the flowers in the fields.
• 40:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're beautiful and yet even Solomon never dressed so nice.
• 40:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: He was human and I like that guy.
• 40:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: The point is birds do not obsessively hoard or control the future yet life somehow goes on.
• 40:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Control of future.
• 40:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: They don't, the birds don't control the future.
• 40:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 40:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: They don't do anything to control the future.
• 40:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 40:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: They just live for more than a moment.
• 40:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 40:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 40:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: They just pull the warm out the ground because they got there early.
• 41:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 41:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody knows they're early bird gets the fucking most of whatever.
• 41:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
• 41:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: So Jesus is arguing against anxiety, driven obsessions with food, clothing, survival, status, and material security.
• 41:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: She's like y'all just needed fucking tracks.
• 41:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 41:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: You ain't got to be wearing gap all the time.
• 41:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: All you need is God and you know, to survive.
• 41:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 41:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Basically.
• 41:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 41:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: So this section connects to the larger theme, which is to stop organizing your entire life around acquisition and anxiety.
• 41:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then the rest of the chapter mentions flowers being more beautifully dressed than Solomon, which I already said.
• 41:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 41:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then,
• 41:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: The point there being, imagine the richest king imaginable versus temporary wildflowers, nature effortlessly exceeds human status displays, like peacocks are so gorgeous.
• 41:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 41:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: to something that's across my mind that, so I mean, there's a lot of theories that Jesus was just a prophet in the time and whatever and preaching his thing and doing his stuff, right?
• 42:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it occurs to me that we said this even about Moses and we definitely said about preachers and pastors today.
• 42:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's that.
• 42:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: they want to make their money, they want to get their fame, they want to get their, like, they've got to make a name for themselves, right?
• 42:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: They've got to stand out.
• 42:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, if you can talk a rich person and to give it up their wealth to God, who's that go to?
• 42:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 42:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just, you know, I'm just right.
• 42:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 42:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not saying that that's necessarily what Jesus was out for, but there is a lot of talk in different aspects about
• 42:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: how you should not value money as much and then you should give it to God.
• 42:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: God should manage that money.
• 42:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, there's, it's true.
• 42:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: So try to get rid of people to get up off their money basically.
• 42:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
• 42:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's two different things because on the one hand, it's don't go out there collecting it and then it's and then don't hold onto it.
• 43:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 43:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's two separate things.
• 43:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
• 43:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: and he's saying don't live your life always trying to collect it and get it.
• 43:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 43:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then once you have it or say you were born into it, don't be hoarding it and sitting up on it.
• 43:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Was that hoarding part that I'm like, oh, so you think it could be better spent over here, huh?
• 43:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 43:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, look, again, I'm not saying Jesus specifically was going for that angle, but there are a lot of people to take that angle and use that for their own purposes.
• 43:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure, but I am going to point out something that I pointed out in the previous episode, which is that this was very political.
• 43:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let us not forget that this was happening during upheaval and occupation.
• 43:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so the birds and lilies are very anti-empire imagery, okay?
• 44:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Jesus is speaking to people under Roman occupation, heavy taxation, debt systems, subsistence economics.
• 44:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: So people just trying to scrape by.
• 44:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: People just trying to make it from one day to the next.
• 44:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: So him saying, don't devote your life to survival anxiety.
• 44:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: It lands differently when it's spoken to, when you understand that it's spoken to peasants, living near economic collapse.
• 44:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 44:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's saying, people are just trying to survive and they do have anxiety over it.
• 44:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
• 44:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so,
• 44:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: that makes it like a little more oh right like I thought he was speaking to the rich people telling them to stop hoarding and wealth and maybe he is but he's more than that.
• 44:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Trying to pass it forward people yeah he's being Fox News and saying don't believe you're lying eyes right the gas prices aren't that bad stop fixing a fixating on it.
• 45:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right right yeah God will provide.
• 45:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: So some scholars read this almost as resistance to imperial economic pressure and a rejection of elite wealth culture.
• 45:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I think that's iffy.
• 45:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I say that, you know, we're talking about things so long ago that
• 45:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: even taking into account what was happening at the time.
• 45:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's hard to say what the speech was actually about.
• 45:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's specific to the sense.
• 45:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it would depend on which people were more likely to be in his crowd and we can't know that.
• 45:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right, and moreover, the speech was taken from multiple speeches probably and there might have been multiple audiences.
• 45:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 45:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we don't know how this piece together, how it was said in the first place there's so much lost with regard to context that I don't think we could ever fully put it together.
• 45:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: It is worth entertaining the notion, however, that he might have been a political rebel and standing up for the poor.
• 46:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
• 46:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, trying to get them to just.
• 46:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: make it through.
• 46:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: It is worth entertaining the notion.
• 46:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's not
• 46:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: beyond the realm of possibility.
• 46:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right, right.
• 46:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Some scholars think that this chapter in particular reflects apocalyptic expectations.
• 46:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: One interpretation is that Jesus believed God's kingdom was arriving very soon, which I mean, that makes sense.
• 46:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Remember, they were expecting the Messiah any second now.
• 46:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, there's a ramp.
• 46:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: How did that point in history?
• 46:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 46:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Which is why Jesus came from,
• 46:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: the whole thing culminated in producing what it produced exactly.
• 46:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that means don't store up treasure.
• 46:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Don't hoard.
• 46:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: It becomes a lot more understandable.
• 46:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why would you build long-term wealth systems if the current world order is temporary?
• 47:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 47:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that changes the tone a little bit too.
• 47:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Instead of timeless self-help wisdom, some things become advice for people expecting
• 47:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 47:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 47:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's really interesting.
• 47:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: More in line with the fucking, um, the, uh, I can't like gate.
• 47:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's, what's the, uh, heavens gate?
• 47:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 47:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 47:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 47:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 47:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 47:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, they, they, they all, they, they gave me everything.
• 47:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: And they went, um,
• 47:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: did their thing.
• 47:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 47:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 47:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, like, they were convinced.
• 47:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: They were convinced.
• 47:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: They were convinced.
• 47:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
• 47:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is similar, just with a slightly longer time frame than, you know, after you drink the glass.
• 47:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 47:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: So.
• 47:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: 2000.
• 47:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 47:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 47:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 47:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: And counting.
• 47:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 47:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 47:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 47:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 47:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that was chapter 6.
• 47:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Then we moved into chapter 7.
• 47:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: And this one goes a lot faster.
• 47:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 47:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because it wraps it up.
• 48:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 48:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 48:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: So you might notice in this one that Matthew fucking loves his paired contrast.
• 48:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: We get the wise versus the foolish, the sheep versus the wolves.
• 48:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: The true versus the false prophets, the good tree versus the bad tree.
• 48:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 48:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: The rock versus the sand, the narrow gate versus the white gate.
• 48:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Matthew seven, Matthew chapter seven becomes a cascade of moral binary choices.
• 48:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what's known in literary terms as a mechanism,
• 48:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: um, that's a literary device where two extremes imply a totality.
• 48:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: So when we have a good tree versus a bad tree, that means that's all the possible moral outcomes.
• 48:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 48:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's either or not nor.
• 48:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: which I hate, like, I hate.
• 48:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's simplified.
• 48:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Black and white.
• 48:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: I hate rain wrong.
• 49:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's just not how the world operates.
• 49:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 49:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: The white gate versus the narrow gate means that's all life directions.
• 49:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's two things are used in opposition to each other to represent the whole.
• 49:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 49:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it does flatten it, but it also is really a simple tool for representation and have a great larger message.
• 49:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: From putting across an idea, it's very easy to use those types of symbols, but it's not.
• 49:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not good.
• 49:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 49:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because what happens is, engine Jewish teaching loved this binary structure, Matthew, especially like the dramatic either-or categories, like saved or destroyed true or false, wise or foolish.
• 49:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that, unfortunately, is what happens, is we get the possible moral outcomes thing.
• 49:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: When those are your only options, there's no nuance.
• 50:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's no gray area.
• 50:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's no, but what's the story behind it?
• 50:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right, I mean, life is really more like the coffee wall when you go to the grocery store.
• 50:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you can't possibly make a fucking decision because there's five billion goddamn coffee you should be from.
• 50:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you're like, Jesus, this is too many.
• 50:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is ridiculous.
• 50:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: That takes me into a spiral all its own literally.
• 50:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it was coffee that was my first indication.
• 50:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, there's literally, I mean, it's become almost an entire aisle in the goddamn the grocery store these days.
• 50:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's almost an entire fucking aisle.
• 50:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Being forced to my parents gave me money and sent me to the store to pick up some coffee.
• 50:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: And this was when I was a teenager.
• 50:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we were overseas.
• 50:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it was a commissary shelf, which means there weren't a lot of choices.
• 50:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: But it was more than three.
• 50:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 50:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that was too many.
• 50:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 50:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I froze and I panicked and I cried because what if I chose the wrong one.
• 50:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so what you just said there like it's going a little bit.
• 51:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a little too close to home sure.
• 51:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: So this makes the gospel rhetorically powerful when you're doing either or, but it also contributes to that whole black and white thinking that Christianity is often criticized for.
• 51:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 51:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And my dad specifically has said, no, everything is black and white.
• 51:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, go.
• 51:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 51:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's, it's in the Bible.
• 51:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's black and white.
• 51:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Everything Jesus says is black and white.
• 51:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Such a terrible way to be.
• 51:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's such a bad take.
• 51:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 51:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, but you met me.
• 51:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know that there's no, there's literal nuance in your own life.
• 51:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 51:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: You, you could, we could, we could reference it in one conversation.
• 51:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're having with you, whether there's nuance.
• 51:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 51:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like that, that is not something that is
• 51:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: the way life works and relationships work.
• 51:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 51:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's um, black and white is for babies.
• 51:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 51:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, yeah, it's so childish.
• 51:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 51:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: And again, forgetting an idea across, I'm okay with it as long as it's followed up with a deeper conversation, maybe.
• 52:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: um, something that falls under that is zero tolerance policies.
• 52:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 52:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't care what it applies to.
• 52:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: I fucking hate them.
• 52:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're childish.
• 52:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 52:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: They don't take new ones into account.
• 52:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they are for babies.
• 52:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 52:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like the, when we were younger, we couldn't go to the bathroom and school because you were not allowed to use, like I, at least in school when I was going, maybe it changed a little bit once I got to high school.
• 52:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: But like there was a policy in place.
• 52:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: No one was allowed to go leave the classroom to use the restroom.
• 52:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, my mom and dad, like, okay, my parents sucked in so many different ways and I could enumerate them.
• 52:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: But one of the ways that they did not suck was on the bathroom tolerance policy.
• 52:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: We had permission.
• 52:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: You always ask permission.
• 52:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: You always be respectful and you respectfully say, but I am going, though, because if you have to pee or change your tampon or shit or bar for any number of human things, yeah.
• 53:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: that doesn't always work on a clock and it's nobody's business but you your body and the toilet.
• 53:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 53:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 53:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, I don't understand.
• 53:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I never understood the thing where teachers say, you know, five three minutes between classes to get from your one classroom to the locker to the other classroom that's plenty of time.
• 53:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, but it's actually nice.
• 53:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not like it's not.
• 53:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then you add in bathroom and forget it.
• 53:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm
• 53:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: At some point, I'm happy.
• 53:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: He stopped by my locker or used the bathroom possibly even both during one of these times if not during class.
• 53:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like these things are just things that happen.
• 53:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 53:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can't dictate to me when
• 53:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to be needing to do those things.
• 53:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you can, you can structure, but the structure has to allow for those gray areas.
• 53:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 53:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: The structure cannot be rigid.
• 53:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And rigid.
• 53:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Our kids going to take advantage of it.
• 54:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure, it's fuck they will.
• 54:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Great.
• 54:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you need to understand that and work around it, not against it.
• 54:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm sorry, but zero tolerance means that you don't have to pay attention and try.
• 54:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can just be like, it's the whole, um, I don't know who is talking.
• 54:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't care who is talking.
• 54:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was probably that one trouble maker who's always talking, but I'm going to punish the whole goddamn class because I'm lazy and I can't be fucking bothered and I have a zero tolerance policy.
• 54:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Look, I've got complaints about college, but in general, it was one of the most amazing things ever.
• 54:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Liberating.
• 54:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Being allowed to do whatever the fuck you want it.
• 54:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: To be an adult and to be responsible for your own body and to not have to ask permission.
• 54:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: It got to the point in high school where I wouldn't even ask me, I use the restroom.
• 54:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: I would literally say, may I please go change my tampon?
• 54:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Even if I all had to do, it was go pee.
• 54:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: because I wanted a teacher to tell me no you may not go change your tampon.
• 55:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: You should have timed it better and for me to then say, I'm sorry, sir.
• 55:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Did you want to have a conversation about tampon timing?
• 55:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Is that really what we're doing here?
• 55:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: because I'm not doing it because I'm a bitch is why I'm a fucking bitch.
• 55:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
• 55:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Anyways, so then we move on to judgment and discernment and versus three through five I'm a read.
• 55:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 55:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 55:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why do you look at the speck of sawdust and your brothers, I am paying no attention to the plank in your own eye?
• 55:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: I said because you can't see your own fucking eye.
• 55:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, why you want to plank in your eyes?
• 55:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: I said ridiculous.
• 55:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: How can you say to your brother, let me take the spec out of your eye when all the time there's a plank in your own eye?
• 55:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: You have a crank.
• 55:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: First take the plank out of your own eye and then you will see clearly to remove the spec from your brother's eye.
• 55:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Take care of yourself before you worry about other.
• 55:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the thing of, yeah.
• 55:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right, but um, I don't know.
• 55:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: That always bothered me because I'm like, why?
• 56:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why didn't I have a plank in the eye?
• 56:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's so fucking stupid.
• 56:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't understand.
• 56:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: And like, I'm dumb because I was like the whole point.
• 56:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's, it was humor.
• 56:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 56:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I didn't understand because Jesus is so serious.
• 56:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, he's serious in so far as we've been present.
• 56:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like we don't know, maybe Jesus was a goddamn comedian.
• 56:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, apparently throughout the whole fucking new testimony, he's a comedian from what I've read.
• 56:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's actually kind of a funny guy.
• 56:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
• 56:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 56:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so he told a lot of like comparison jokes and stuff.
• 56:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I know there's a place that we're gonna meet where he's pretty sarcastic.
• 56:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Really?
• 56:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, okay.
• 56:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I can't wait for it, but here he's using humor, and it's easy to miss the metaphor because it's become so familiar over the centuries, but it's the contrast between the two that makes this so intentionally absurd because we've got to spec a tiny bit of dust or straw or whatever, a piece of sand versus a plank which is a beam used in construction like a roof beam
• 57:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: So he's like comparing two ridiculous things like a fly versus an elephant.
• 57:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's basically saying, why are you worrying about the fly when you've got a fucking elephant sitting on your desk and like I didn't get it.
• 57:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Can you imagine a church service or a church in general that just
• 57:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: was light.
• 57:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Didn't take itself seriously.
• 57:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 57:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Played into the humor aspects.
• 57:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, like, it was like, you know, like, I feel like that would be the way to go.
• 57:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 57:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, if you're going to really try to build a, uh, yeah, make it fun.
• 57:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Make it fun.
• 57:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 57:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 57:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you mean, like, with any class that you're teaching ever or with any speech that you're delivering ever.
• 57:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 57:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, how else are you going to get through the bears attacking the children?
• 57:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you
• 57:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: So Jesus was basically doing exaggerated visual comedy.
• 57:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: He was like doing a stand-up routine.
• 58:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 58:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so he's like basically imagine someone carefully criticizing a tiny eyelash in another person's eye.
• 58:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you've got a fucking telephone pole sticking out of your face.
• 58:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's like that was what he was trying to say.
• 58:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 58:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the image is ridiculous on purpose,
• 58:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the metaphor works because eyes were associated with perception, moral insight, and spiritual understanding.
• 58:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's why he was using the eyes specifically.
• 58:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the irony is that the person with a largest impairment thinks that they see the most clearly and that they're the most good.
• 58:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure, which that's that's funny in retrospect, you know, Jesus often teaches with deliberately impossible or grotesque images as I mentioned and we'll We're going to see some more of that when he he's going to reference a camel going through the eye of a needle and like I've heard that That's famous one.
• 59:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, swallowing a camel after straining a net
• 59:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: I never heard that one there.
• 59:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm excited that one.
• 59:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Cutting off your hand if it causes you to sin.
• 59:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, like apparently that was supposed to be funny.
• 59:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: We did.
• 59:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 59:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that was supposed to be funny.
• 59:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, huh.
• 59:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: well because because I mean he's saying like like remember I said well it wasn't me that was looking it was my eye so I'll just cut my eye out right and he's basically saying it wasn't your fucking eye and you know it and it wasn't your hands but if it was okay cut your hand off then sure and like we didn't see the humor because we were just like oh
• 59:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, duh, right so, but yeah, I really like you this is a real funny.
• 59:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: I like that, I like that image, I like that image, I like that image, I like that image, yeah.
• 59:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the point is not realism, it's memorability.
• 1:00:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: And this is one of the clearest examples of ancient, committed exaggeration in early literature.
• 1:00:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's kind of cool.
• 1:00:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:00:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: I really like that.
• 1:00:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Me too, yeah.
• 1:00:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: So Jesus is not always serene and solemn in the text.
• 1:00:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes he's vividly sarcastic.
• 1:00:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nice.
• 1:00:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's cool.
• 1:00:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: That didn't come through in any, you know, church thing I've ever been through.
• 1:00:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, they, he's kind of a whoopy.
• 1:00:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 1:00:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:00:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: I like that image.
• 1:00:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, me too.
• 1:00:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:00:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Buddy Jesus is becoming a more solid figure in my mind as we read Matthew, honestly.
• 1:00:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so then we get like dogs and pros before swine.
• 1:00:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember all that?
• 1:00:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you were like, I've never heard of don't through prules before swine.
• 1:00:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I was I'm still like, I can't believe we've never heard that.
• 1:00:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry.
• 1:00:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's literally a comic a Sunday comic that's been out for over a decade called pros before swine and it's based on this.
• 1:00:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: I must have been reading Calvin and Hobbs.
• 1:00:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know probably.
• 1:00:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: So first six reads, do not give dogs what a sacred.
• 1:01:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do not throw your pearls to pigs.
• 1:01:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you do, they may trample them under their feet and turn and tear you to pieces.
• 1:01:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Even though you were the one that taught them, they'll bite the hand of the feet, right?
• 1:01:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:01:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the common interpretation is don't waste valuable truths on people determined to reject or mock them.
• 1:01:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: That would be us.
• 1:01:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:01:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:01:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Don't waste your soul.
• 1:01:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: This whole Bible thing is wasted on us.
• 1:01:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: It sure is.
• 1:01:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: They shouldn't have tossed this.
• 1:01:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: We are determined to reject and mock them.
• 1:01:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: That is a fact.
• 1:01:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, we don't know.
• 1:01:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think we're being fair.
• 1:01:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think we're being out for the most.
• 1:01:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: I we try to be fair.
• 1:01:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Look Jesus was kind of cool you guys.
• 1:01:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: So far I mean like there's some things I've got issue with but I feel like according to what I've read that he would be willing to sit down and discuss them right now.
• 1:01:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do I think he's the son of God fuck.
• 1:01:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh absolutely not even a fucking chance.
• 1:01:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but like
• 1:01:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: I like to look at this in some regards as just a piece of literature from the patch, you know, and with that in mind, comparatively speaking to what we read in the Old Testament.
• 1:02:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: This ain't that bad.
• 1:02:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: This ain't that bad, y'all.
• 1:02:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Women are still cattle.
• 1:02:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 1:02:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Slavery is still a lot.
• 1:02:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: I do say comparatively speaking.
• 1:02:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
• 1:02:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: compared to what we're speaking.
• 1:02:13
  [UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
• 1:02:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the pearls in this little statement are meant to symbolize wisdom, sacred teachings, truth, and spiritual insight.
• 1:02:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: And this swine symbolize those who don't recognize value, people who are hostile to the message, people incapable of appreciating wisdom, and those who become angry when they can't
• 1:02:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: got it.
• 1:02:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: In Jewish culture of the time pigs were unclean animals, right?
• 1:02:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: And while dogs were associated with scavengers, they were not pets.
• 1:02:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like man's best friend was not a thing.
• 1:02:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: So both animals represented impurity or even hostility.
• 1:03:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: And this sounds really harsh to modern ears, but Jesus often used culturally-loaded animal imagery.
• 1:03:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Remember like last time I told you about the Roman horses, he would reference them a lot.
• 1:03:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:03:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Prales, on the other hand, were among the most valuable portable luxury items in the Roman world.
• 1:03:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: the economic absurdity is part of the rhetorical punch that either or you've got both extremes there.
• 1:03:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Great.
• 1:03:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Great.
• 1:03:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Then he gives more instructions for prayer, ask seek, knock, that thing.
• 1:03:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: We were like, whatever.
• 1:03:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: I kind of asked when I was a kid.
• 1:03:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: I would have, I wouldn't have minded, you know, fucking for that.
• 1:03:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Fuck you for blaming me for your inability.
• 1:03:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Wait, no, no, no, I knocked, whatever.
• 1:03:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, the people would say we didn't knock hard enough.
• 1:03:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's not it.
• 1:03:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: We didn't pray hard, we didn't, we didn't actually mean it.
• 1:03:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I wouldn't have known how because I was a fucking child.
• 1:03:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 1:04:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's not my fault.
• 1:04:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:04:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: So fuck off.
• 1:04:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you could give every child a chance.
• 1:04:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: That could be a thing.
• 1:04:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:04:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Or you could give every child that insight and say, and then they could make their decision from there.
• 1:04:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 1:04:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Which that insight was never given to you.
• 1:04:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Look, don't blame me for not believing in your imaginary bullshit.
• 1:04:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 1:04:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I don't like.
• 1:04:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not the problem here.
• 1:04:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think one of the weirdest things that I've ever occurred to me when I was younger, right?
• 1:04:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Was that there are people in the world that have never even heard of Jesus?
• 1:04:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:04:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, wait, why?
• 1:04:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, so how does that work?
• 1:04:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:04:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: How does the whole Jesus and God thing work if they've never had a chance to even hear about them?
• 1:04:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: I literally asked my one of my best friends in high school about that and she said she would have to ask her pastor, and I was like, and I was like, actually very seriously concerned.
• 1:04:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:04:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to know the fucking answer.
• 1:04:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 1:04:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:04:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: If what you're saying is true, this is a problem, you know.
• 1:04:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I cried because I was like, that's not fair.
• 1:05:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, okay fine, me, I've heard about it.
• 1:05:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't believe or I don't feel, I don't, whatever.
• 1:05:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: I guess I'm going to hell, that's fine.
• 1:05:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: But those people don't even know.
• 1:05:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And like, I was arguing with her and I was crying because I was like, that's not fair.
• 1:05:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 1:05:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's literally not fair.
• 1:05:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:05:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: they just, oh well, boom, you go to hell.
• 1:05:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like what?
• 1:05:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: That is not an okay system.
• 1:05:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to have that.
• 1:05:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we get some new ones up in here, please.
• 1:05:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 1:05:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:05:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
• 1:05:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: So then we get Jesus showing how men should deal with each other.
• 1:05:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, ethical teaching, regarding our treatment of others, the golden rule.
• 1:05:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:05:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Verse 12, so in everything, do the others what you would have them do to you for this sums up the law and the profits.
• 1:05:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: And this was so interesting, setting this was so interesting to me.
• 1:05:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I wasn't even looking up like, let's talk about the golden rule.
• 1:05:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have questions about it.
• 1:05:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just happened to stumble across this.
• 1:05:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm just so glad because this is so interesting.
• 1:06:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:06:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: The golden rule itself was not unique at that time, but what was unique about it was that Jesus phrased it positively versions of the golden rule already existed earlier in Judaism, Greece, Persia, China, India.
• 1:06:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a thing.
• 1:06:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:06:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: But the interesting distinction is that many older versions are negative, don't harm other people.
• 1:06:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas Jesus brings a positively, actively do good.
• 1:06:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 1:06:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 1:06:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they were like saying, don't hurt other people.
• 1:06:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he's saying, do treat people the way you want to be treated.
• 1:06:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:06:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it was the positive spin on it that made it so much better.
• 1:06:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it was a new message.
• 1:06:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 1:06:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it was like, whew.
• 1:06:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because positive always beats negative.
• 1:06:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Although negative carries longer.
• 1:07:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, but that's what made a revolutionary though.
• 1:07:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that makes all the difference.
• 1:07:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Definitely.
• 1:07:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
• 1:07:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then we get into the gates.
• 1:07:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: The street gate, the narrow gate, the wide gate.
• 1:07:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, what the fuck?
• 1:07:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 1:07:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: We've got versus 13 and 14.
• 1:07:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Enter through the narrow gate.
• 1:07:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: For why does the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction and many enter through it?
• 1:07:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life.
• 1:07:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't get it, and I still kind of don't get it, but maybe I can help me understand the order.
• 1:07:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: As that most people make bad choices and go through the easier path than life and choose not to go down, the harder path which leads to more in this context, better spiritual understanding, close being closer to God.
• 1:07:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: They don't take the harder path that is
• 1:07:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: is there, but not as easy as you've got to, they don't struggle to get full knowledge of their God or whatever the case may be, whatever.
• 1:08:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: It just seemed like it was trying too hard and so I wasn't getting it.
• 1:08:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that the message of these trying to convey is that you have to work to be as spiritual as you should be.
• 1:08:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not just easy, it's not just an easy road.
• 1:08:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: The easy road is through that big wide gate right there.
• 1:08:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you want to actually be closer to God, you have to work to get through this smaller gate.
• 1:08:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so the road to hell is paved with good intentions kind of thing?
• 1:08:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
• 1:08:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's not just doing good.
• 1:08:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: You gotta keep doing good or some shit like that.
• 1:08:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: You've got to work harder.
• 1:08:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you can't, you can't just do one thing.
• 1:08:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then you're through the small gate.
• 1:08:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: You've got to, that's got to be your whole persona.
• 1:08:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's got to be everything you are.
• 1:08:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: You've got to work hard to be going through the narrow gate.
• 1:08:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you said that.
• 1:08:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know.
• 1:08:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll just reiterate it.
• 1:08:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: So this idea has deep Jewish roots.
• 1:08:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Ancient Jewish wisdom literature, often framed morality as two paths.
• 1:09:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Life versus death.
• 1:09:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Wisdom versus folly.
• 1:09:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: curvy path versus the straight path.
• 1:09:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Matthew presents Jesus as a wisdom teacher continuing in this tradition.
• 1:09:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the broad path represents ease, conformity, moral laziness, follow in the crowd, socially, normal route, you know, those things that you said.
• 1:09:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 1:09:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 1:09:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: The narrow path represents intentional living, discipline, moral difficulty, and countercultural behavior.
• 1:09:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: and look, I within the context of my own life, I agree with that.
• 1:09:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: I agree with that a hundred cents, not necessarily in a religious context, but in the sense that it's taking the easy road is not always the best route, like taking the road that everybody else takes, like you
• 1:10:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: have fallen in with the right wing, magma, you know, country boy club people because of who I am, where I grew up and all that, right?
• 1:10:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: To me though, that never made sense, and it's taken, and I'm still not perfect, but like it's taken, it's been a hard road to separate myself from the way that I was brought up and
• 1:10:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: be the person that I am, you know, like it's not it's it's it's might it would have been much easier for me to just been a good old boy that grew up in a small town country town and just stayed that and been that forever, right?
• 1:10:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: But it's not what I felt was the right way to be and so I'm not.
• 1:10:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I guess I just I I guess I just I
• 1:10:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I see the context, I see it makes sense to me because I feel like I've kind of lived that in my own way, separate of God and religion.
• 1:10:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that on a grand moral scale that definitely holds true, but I think it also holds true
• 1:11:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: that those are harder.
• 1:11:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, there's the bystander effect where a crowd is standing and sees a tragedy occur.
• 1:11:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: And everybody else is waiting for somebody to act.
• 1:11:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Somebody to call anyone.
• 1:11:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've been guilty of not being the best person in that.
• 1:11:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean,
• 1:11:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: But that's what I'm saying like and you better with that.
• 1:11:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: I do better with that, but only because I'm so pissed that like as usual, it falls to me because nobody else will do it because blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:11:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I don't I am not a quote unquote better and more morally attuned person.
• 1:11:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: What I am is a person who is autistic and has a strong sense of moral.
• 1:12:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, aptitude of what is right and wrong and how you're supposed to act and I don't understand social cues right so that doesn't mean that I'm morally better that means that I just don't understand why is everybody standing around that doesn't track.
• 1:12:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, but but I will say this by being around you for what 20 years.
• 1:12:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll basically this by the way, it's our anniversary coming up, which I think we can actually do it for us.
• 1:12:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like 18, 17, 18 or 19 years.
• 1:12:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know exactly.
• 1:12:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: We always forget to do the math.
• 1:12:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's somewhere in that realm because we got married twice.
• 1:12:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:12:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, and anyway, not because we broke up, right, right, but we've definitely been together for 20 years.
• 1:12:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
• 1:12:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because I know I know when it was when you
• 1:12:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that was 2006.
• 1:12:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Six.
• 1:12:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that's right.
• 1:12:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's been 20 years.
• 1:12:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my God, we've been together for 20 years.
• 1:12:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
• 1:12:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my God, that's amazing.
• 1:12:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: I like that one.
• 1:12:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's go with that one.
• 1:12:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 1:12:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because I can remember that one.
• 1:12:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:13:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: OK. And then, but what I was saying is that being around me for 20 years.
• 1:13:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:13:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: You've taught me things.
• 1:13:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: the not not part of the crowd and doing the right thing.
• 1:13:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I've learned to adapt my sense of
• 1:13:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: good to, to also encompass that of going against a crowd of people too.
• 1:13:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 1:13:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, if something I've had to learn though, because it's not easy to definitely not easy.
• 1:13:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's not.
• 1:13:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I've seen you struggle with it.
• 1:13:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: And conversely, I have learned from you that sometimes you just need to shut the fuck up and fit in.
• 1:13:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 1:13:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you're better at that than I
• 1:13:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just saying like that's why there's nuance because sometimes it is better to go against the crowd.
• 1:13:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And other times it's better to just, you know, if everybody around just put in blue mud in their belly buttons as Robert A. Heinlein's famous for saying then that's what you do.
• 1:14:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 1:14:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, when I'm wrong, I think the real like the narrow gate is really trying to find
• 1:14:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: when you shouldn't, when you shouldn't, and doing the right things in the moment, and learning this over a lifetime of learning, right?
• 1:14:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Learning this through trial and error, and trying to be the best person you can be, and always working towards being a better person.
• 1:14:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like that's how I would choose to interpret it if I were to interpret it, right?
• 1:14:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:14:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, I think that really gets into the difference between knowledge and wisdom.
• 1:14:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Knowledge is knowing that those differences exist and wisdom is knowing when to apply which.
• 1:14:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right, right?
• 1:14:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah.
• 1:14:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: We neither one of us is very wise, but we are both working on it and we're learning and we're learning from each other and we're teaching each other yeah and that's one of the ways we balance each other so well definitely.
• 1:15:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I was curious though, but why gates?
• 1:15:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why are we talking about gates?
• 1:15:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they like gates in the Old Testament.
• 1:15:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, they did, they totally did.
• 1:15:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: And there's a specific reason for that.
• 1:15:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Cities in the ancient world had gates controlling access, safety, trade, and even identity.
• 1:15:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's a fishgate.
• 1:15:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: One of them.
• 1:15:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:15:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the fishgate.
• 1:15:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, the gate is a threshold image.
• 1:15:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: You choose which world you enter and so the people would enter the city through a specific gate that they didn't necessarily have the choice, but morally you do have the choice.
• 1:15:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Got it.
• 1:15:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, Damn, okay.
• 1:15:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: I love me a good literary symbolic reference and understanding.
• 1:15:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:15:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:15:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: That makes it.
• 1:15:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 1:15:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 1:15:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 1:15:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: I like that.
• 1:15:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: I like that.
• 1:15:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: For sure.
• 1:16:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: The narrow gate suggests restriction and intentional choice and commitment.
• 1:16:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 1:16:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas the broad gate suggests ease drift and mass participation.
• 1:16:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
• 1:16:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: The narrow gate may also critique empire and social conformity, some modern scholars interpret the broad road politically and socially, not merely morally, which, I mean, we kind of got into that a little bit.
• 1:16:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 1:16:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: The broad road could also symbolize mainstream power structures, wealth, pursuit, status, seeking, participation and exploitative systems.
• 1:16:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 1:16:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like I don't know, buying an island and then all of your friends eat babies and everybody around you's eating babies.
• 1:16:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: So you just think it's normal to eat babies and then everybody just knows that those guys over there are eating babies.
• 1:16:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Speaking of exploiting this system, did you hear about Trump's slush fund for Jan 6 or whatever the fucking bullshit where he's like set aside money to help people wronged by, I don't know, I don't know, Mr. Something, I'm not really sure what the fuck?
• 1:17:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: I hate that.
• 1:17:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: I can't even.
• 1:17:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Not only did they get Martin, but they're going to get fucking reparations for it.
• 1:17:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Fuck you.
• 1:17:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:17:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like we have an entire population of black and brown people who would like a word with you, sir.
• 1:17:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: When it comes to reparations.
• 1:17:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:17:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm way way pro reparations for them.
• 1:17:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Look, there's a whole fucking slew of things that are just insane, that are, sorry, that are not correct, that are not right.
• 1:17:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: But it's always just one more thing.
• 1:17:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, oh my God, this is just... Like you think it can't get worse.
• 1:17:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, I think we've sunk to the worst.
• 1:17:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's just like now spreading out.
• 1:18:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 1:18:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like we poured all of the shit.
• 1:18:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: There was a bowl of shit, right?
• 1:18:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we poured it all out on the floor.
• 1:18:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: All the shit's there, but now it's spreading out.
• 1:18:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:18:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it doesn't, it's not that it gets worse so that so much is that it just keeps being there and and being bigger and more right anyway release the Trump Epstein file.
• 1:18:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah definitely.
• 1:18:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: So where is the broad road symbolized to Trump and his cronies and all of that bullshitter Asia.
• 1:18:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: The narrow road becomes resistance and humility and radical ethics.
• 1:18:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: which I appreciate the use of the word radical.
• 1:18:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: for good.
• 1:18:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:18:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: And this interpretation resonates with Matthew's recurring suspicion toward wealth and outward religiosity, which I'm like, I think Matthew's got it right.
• 1:18:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think Matthew's a decent guy.
• 1:18:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:18:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: So then we go on to that whole fruit tree thing.
• 1:19:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:19:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the danger of false
• 1:19:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: by their fruits you shall know them, right?
• 1:19:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's another famous section.
• 1:19:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: And false prophets are compared to trees.
• 1:19:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, oh, okay, so good is good and bad is bad because it literally said the good fruit comes from the good tree and vice versa.
• 1:19:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Cause everything's black and white.
• 1:19:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:19:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: So fruit here means visible outcomes, behavior, character, and consequences.
• 1:19:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's why when a kid acts bad, and his father's an asshole, we say the fruit don't fall far from the tree, the apple don't fall far from the tree, this is practical ethics, claims matter less than results.
• 1:19:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: So you should think action speak louder than words, and this also fits the
• 1:19:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so don't don't be a bad apple.
• 1:20:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right, right, because not only are you rotting, but you rot everything around you.
• 1:20:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's some truth to that.
• 1:20:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: There is, yeah, then we move on to Jesus showing that no man shall be saved by his mere profession of Christianity and the decision between two claims of
• 1:20:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Jesus, one false and one true.
• 1:20:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 1:20:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 1:20:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then we get two foundations, the parable of the wise man who built his house upon a rock versus the foolish man who built his house without a foundation on the sand.
• 1:20:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Therefore, everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
• 1:20:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against the house.
• 1:20:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yet it did not fall because it had its foundation on the rock!
• 1:20:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Great!
• 1:20:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: But everyone who wears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.
• 1:21:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: The rain came down the streams, rose and the wind blew and beat against that house.
• 1:21:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it fell with a great crash.
• 1:21:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Come on, point out.
• 1:21:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: OK, so here's a thing.
• 1:21:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Geography, totally matters, OK?
• 1:21:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:21:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: The storm imagery and the house on the rock versus the sand metaphor it lands a little bit differently when you have a better understanding of you day is climate okay dry river beds.
• 1:21:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're called bodies.
• 1:21:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: They still are to the same.
• 1:21:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we've used that term.
• 1:21:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:21:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they can look perfectly safe most of the year and then suddenly a flood will violently storm the area and it ain't safe no more right so don't build on the bodies.
• 1:21:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was not just hypothetically stupid.
• 1:21:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was an actual real regional danger that was happening.
• 1:21:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
• 1:21:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: So he was like maybe don't do that.
• 1:22:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, yes, it's been dry for years.
• 1:22:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: but don't, and they were like, but it's been dry for years, and he's like, but don't, right?
• 1:22:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and then we go on to verses 28 and 29.
• 1:22:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at His teaching because He taught as one who had authority and not as their teachers of the law.
• 1:22:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we were like, big deal, what is, okay?
• 1:22:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: You had authority, woo.
• 1:22:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: right here's the thing Matthew finished up that bit by saying that the people were amazed because Jesus taught us one having authority.
• 1:22:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: The subtext of that is that the rest of the sentence goes unlike the scribes.
• 1:22:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Woo!
• 1:22:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and that subtle propaganda is like everything.
• 1:22:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 1:22:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is Matthew like throwing shade basically that the other teachers of the time.
• 1:22:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 1:23:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Matthew was elevating Jesus above traditional scholarly interpreters.
• 1:23:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 1:23:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: So he's like.
• 1:23:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Jesus was speaking and the people were fucking amazed at his teaching.
• 1:23:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Got it.
• 1:23:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, yeah.
• 1:23:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: He was teaching with authority and like the others.
• 1:23:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Got it.
• 1:23:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Got it.
• 1:23:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:23:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what to tell you.
• 1:23:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: But Jesus brought this was next level.
• 1:23:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Amazement.
• 1:23:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:23:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: This was nice.
• 1:23:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: According to Matthew.
• 1:23:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 1:23:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:23:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:23:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so he wasn't just like boosting Jesus.
• 1:23:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: He was also like,
• 1:23:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not just the people like the sermon, it's his authority has surpassed the established experts.
• 1:23:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's interesting because they're, he's literally doing, they're doing a sales pitch for Jesus.
• 1:23:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
• 1:23:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Which, in and of itself is not a real strong indicator that he was actually considered the son of God at the time.
• 1:23:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 1:23:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Or anything along those lines.
• 1:24:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:24:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like they're trying to pitch his case.
• 1:24:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
• 1:24:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: To the rest of us.
• 1:24:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, or even in the near future, you know, like whoever might be reading this tomorrow a year from now.
• 1:24:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah On years from now.
• 1:24:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 1:24:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 1:24:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, just so you know Jesus was so much better that that's actually that kind of diminishes Right the message a little bit about Jesus.
• 1:24:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't say it was true.
• 1:24:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just saying that's what Matthew was implied I'm saying the fact that he's doing a sales pitch kind of diminishes message that Jesus is the Son of God.
• 1:24:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah
• 1:24:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, where are you trying to get it?
• 1:24:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're a sales pitch.
• 1:24:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's the same guy.
• 1:24:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: If he's the son of God, people just going to know he's the son of God, right?
• 1:24:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm sorry.
• 1:24:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Who are you to tell me that he surpassed the established experts?
• 1:24:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: And was he really doing miracles in shit?
• 1:24:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because why are you doing a pit?
• 1:24:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: If he's doing miracles, then we don't Obviously, we don't need a sales pitch.
• 1:24:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's just doing miracles.
• 1:24:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: but this whole thing harkens back to the whole boss profits era.
• 1:25:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 1:25:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, because there was a lot of early competition or real competition in early Judaism.
• 1:25:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
• 1:25:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: So like not just during this time period, but like remember way back.
• 1:25:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, they talked about false profits all the fucking people.
• 1:25:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, all the time.
• 1:25:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: So this is just more of that.
• 1:25:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 1:25:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm talking about unlike the false prophets, this one's the real one.
• 1:25:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, except that the real one they don't they don't even know what that means yet.
• 1:25:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right, exactly like they're they're he's such a good teacher.
• 1:25:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god.
• 1:25:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so first century Judea was full of apocalyptic preachers, miracle workers, revolutionaries, wandering holy men, and messianic claimants.
• 1:25:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Full of miracles.
• 1:25:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Full of it.
• 1:25:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
• 1:25:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Full all over the guy.
• 1:25:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: I need to be anyways.
• 1:25:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, people was walking on water all the time, you know.
• 1:25:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Apparently.
• 1:25:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah,
• 1:25:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Killing the dead right snake oil salesman sure sure sure The era the era was religiously chaotic.
• 1:26:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was off the fucking hook interesting like you could throw a rock and not even be aiming and you could hit a prophet
• 1:26:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Jesus himself existed in a crowded marketplace of charismatic figures.
• 1:26:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: So he had to stand out, and that's why his message was different.
• 1:26:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: You got to wonder, like, because this was written after his death, right?
• 1:26:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: And not that this was written during his lifetime.
• 1:26:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:26:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it was a collection of speeches and things like that, right?
• 1:26:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: That these people actually take one person, right?
• 1:26:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Was this a collection of ideas that they like from multiple cultures I?
• 1:26:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: That they turned into what is now known as Jesus.
• 1:26:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 1:26:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 1:26:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: I wonder what their motivation was independently and collectively for talking about this guy after he made.
• 1:26:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:26:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: So weird.
• 1:26:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:26:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, okay.
• 1:26:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we're about done here.
• 1:26:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, just want to say a couple more things.
• 1:27:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, Matthews Jesus is extremely concerned with authenticity.
• 1:27:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's what the sermon on the mount is mostly about.
• 1:27:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 1:27:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: A recurring secular interpretation of Matthew is that Jesus attacks hypocrisy more than being unreligious or ear religion.
• 1:27:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Got it.
• 1:27:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: So he's more pissed off about hypocrisy than atheism or secularism.
• 1:27:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right, right.
• 1:27:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, he ain't yelling at us.
• 1:27:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why, isn't he?
• 1:27:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: In his sermon?
• 1:27:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:27:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, I think, well, I don't know.
• 1:27:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, hypocrisy is one of those things that Christians claim they hate, right?
• 1:27:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: But they're the most.
• 1:27:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: But, well, they're the most,
• 1:27:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, there's so many different sex of Christianity, right?
• 1:27:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:27:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: So there's obviously going to be hypocrisy all over the fucking place because there's a million different coffee choices.
• 1:27:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:27:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like you can't, you can't, you're coffee can't be the correct coffee when there's five billion other fucking choices.
• 1:28:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 1:28:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: You got a whole aisle of coffee.
• 1:28:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: You got a whole aisle of Christians.
• 1:28:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, the thing is is they're all correct because everybody can pick what they like.
• 1:28:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: sure.
• 1:28:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's exactly right.
• 1:28:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's exactly right.
• 1:28:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:28:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: So at least according to Matthew, the villains in the sermon on the Mount are usually not atheist or pagans.
• 1:28:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're religious people performing goodness socially for everybody else to see.
• 1:28:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's part of why even non-religious readers like us still find the sermon on the Mount compelling to some degree.
• 1:28:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it does have a bit of a secular slash atheist slant to it in some in some ways.
• 1:28:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: In some ways, yeah, we could definitely get something out of it.
• 1:28:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yeah, if if we were to rewrite it, it wouldn't be difficult to write it with a secular slant.
• 1:29:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Look, we went to a church for a while, right?
• 1:29:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it was, uh,
• 1:29:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: you went for reasons and then you want me to come because you like the pastor and I like the pastor and turns out he's atheist now.
• 1:29:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: But like all in all, we really enjoyed that church because there was good people.
• 1:29:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: The message was not a bad message.
• 1:29:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know like there was generally he did a lot of health.
• 1:29:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know a lot of history.
• 1:29:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: You wish teaching which we really appreciate it.
• 1:29:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean there's I you know I've never believed in God.
• 1:29:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's never been that I didn't we even told him
• 1:29:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: that we were atheists, you know, like we didn't believe in God necessarily, you know, and he was fine with that.
• 1:29:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: And there are things in Christianity that I can get behind to some degree.
• 1:29:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
• 1:29:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and I'm never going to lie about that and say that there's not.
• 1:29:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: The morals of it is fine.
• 1:29:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:29:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: But the biggest
• 1:29:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: hypocrisy like we're talking about the hypocrisy here and the hypocrisy to me is what's driving a lot of these like fundamental reverting like the revision back to like what we what what they think Christianity used to be right and instead of letting Christianity grow into what it could be
• 1:30:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: It needs to grow in order to stay relevant.
• 1:30:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: And instead, we're reverting back to something terrible.
• 1:30:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Ticking America and the rest of the world, thereby with it, back to the fucking dark ages.
• 1:30:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:30:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's being done in a very, like, there's a lot of politics behind it.
• 1:30:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of money.
• 1:30:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of purpose behind what's going on right now.
• 1:30:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, money.
• 1:30:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: and it's not it's not great.
• 1:30:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: So the hypocrisy aspect of this whole speech really kind of hits home.
• 1:30:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: It does.
• 1:30:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right now more than than than ever for me.
• 1:31:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: They all like, yeah, there's a lot of fucking hypocrisy out there.
• 1:31:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm like, um, I would like all of you Christians to spend the weekend reading the sermon on the Mount literally chapters five, six and seven of Matthew, I feel like Christians really need to take some time with that.
• 1:31:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then, and then watch Fox News and compare those values to what's going on in your fucking news channel.
• 1:31:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because it's not there.
• 1:31:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's those values are not there.
• 1:31:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's completely opposite.
• 1:31:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right, examine your fucking values.
• 1:31:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, examine how you're living this life with regard to what you say, Christians, Christians, what you say, your God is, your Jesus is, whatever that is.
• 1:31:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: I will just put it out there one more time.
• 1:31:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: God was not yelling at me, my friend.
• 1:31:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: God was yelling at you.
• 1:31:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: I hate it, yeah, yeah, think about that.
• 1:32:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
• 1:32:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
• 1:32:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: That was our Q&A for Matthew chapter six and seven five six and oh yeah this was six and seven right we already did chapter five right so now we have done a Q&A Part one in part two over the sermon on the Mount yeah and so on our next episode we're going to be doing
• 1:32:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: we will be getting back to reading the regular chapters of Matthew, and we are on chapter 8, little Matty chapter 8, and just to kind of give you a sense of what's coming, we're going to try to do chapter 8, chapter 9, chapter 10, and then do a Q&A over those three chapters.
• 1:32:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 1:32:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 1:32:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, and don't forget to join us.
• 1:32:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is gonna be coming out on Sunday.
• 1:32:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: So you got a couple days to do it, but you should do it right now before you forget.
• 1:32:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you listen to this whole episode, you aren't on our Discord, what the fuck are you doing?
• 1:32:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: What do you get on our Discord?
• 1:32:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's a link in the show notes.
• 1:32:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Go there right now, click on it.
• 1:32:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Join us over there.
• 1:32:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Come to the live on Tuesday at 10pm Eastern, or don't, if you can't.
• 1:32:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: But like, you know, let's come over to the Discord.
• 1:33:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's where all the fun is.
• 1:33:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's where we have fun.
• 1:33:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:33:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's fun.
• 1:33:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do it.
• 1:33:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like right now before you forget.
• 1:33:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Go make fun of me over there.
• 1:33:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
• 1:33:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: We'll see you guys next time.