Latest / The Lila Rose Show / E29: Their Love Story, Dating Advice and Fighting, with Trent and Laura Horn

Transcript

E29: Their Love Story, Dating Advice and Fighting, with Trent and Laura Horn · The Lila Rose Show

• 0:00
  There were a ton of guys who were super in love with you and
• 0:03
  you never noticed. That is not true.
• 0:04
  They were great friends. I don't even have Alexa like or
• 0:07
  Siri. She's like, who are you talking
• 0:09
  to? I'm.
• 0:09
  Too jealous. I don't like that that woman
• 0:11
  does whatever he asks her. Get rid of her.
• 0:14
  Like people always say things like how come all the good guys
• 0:16
  are are married? Marriage is what turns men into
• 0:19
  the good ones. Yeah.
• 0:25
  Hey, guys. Hello.
• 0:27
  Hello. Are you there?
• 0:30
  I'm like me or. Is she talking to?
• 0:34
  Me, I'm definitely talking to you.
• 0:35
  I've been wanting to talk to you all week, so I'm so excited.
• 0:38
  So Laura and Trent Horn. I said Laura and Trent Horn.
• 0:42
  So starting with Laura. Laura.
• 0:43
  Laura comes first here. You guys are awesome and I want
• 0:47
  to hear, we're going to hear your love story and hear so many
• 0:50
  wonderful, amazing things from you.
• 0:52
  But first of all, I'm Laura's fan.
• 0:54
  I'm also your fan too, Trent, But I'm especially Laura's fan
• 0:57
  because no one's making funny content like Laura.
• 1:00
  And I was telling you right before this interview started, I
• 1:03
  was telling you my husband and I were watching your roasting of
• 1:07
  Taylor Marshall, which I don't even like, follow Taylor
• 1:10
  Marshall, but I know enough to know.
• 1:11
  And it was, it was amazing. It was magnificent.
• 1:15
  Well, now I can just jump out the window and die happy.
• 1:18
  So thank you very much. I will now jump to my death
• 1:23
  knowing. Please don't do that.
• 1:27
  OK? So tell me first for people who
• 1:29
  are watching and aren't super familiar yet, tell me each of
• 1:33
  you, what you do and then we're going to get into the whole how
• 1:35
  you met. But First off, tell me about
• 1:37
  your your creative work and what you do.
• 1:38
  Yeah. Go ahead.
• 1:40
  Sure. So my name is Trent Horn.
• 1:42
  I'm an apologist for Catholic Answers.
• 1:44
  I've written several books, teach apologetics, do radio
• 1:48
  shows, debates. I'd like to help people better
• 1:52
  understand and defend the Catholic faith.
• 1:54
  I'm a convert. I came into the Catholic Church
• 1:56
  about 20 years ago when I was in high school.
• 1:59
  And yeah, that's what I do. And right now, it's been really
• 2:03
  rewarding. Part of my time has been helping
• 2:05
  Laura with her channel Too Far with Laura Horne, and you can
• 2:09
  tell more about that. Yeah.
• 2:11
  I've good transition, Trent. It's almost like he's done this
• 2:15
  before or something. Yeah.
• 2:18
  I'm Laura. I was a neuro telemetry nurse.
• 2:21
  And then I made the transition to stay at home when we had our
• 2:24
  second child. And that has been a huge
• 2:25
  blessing to us. And so now I homeschool our
• 2:28
  three boys. We're 85 and two.
• 2:31
  And in my spare time, I like being on your podcast.
• 2:36
  I feel so good and and what's that?
• 2:40
  What was the inspo for the channel?
• 2:41
  Laura for Too Far with Laura Horne.
• 2:43
  What was the inspiration for your channel?
• 2:45
  For your YouTube channel, which is comedy.
• 2:47
  It's a lot of comedy, which is awesome.
• 2:49
  Yeah, so originally I wanted to start like a podcast that could
• 2:52
  help people. And I tried recording actually
• 2:56
  like how Trent does, and it was a lot harder than I thought it
• 2:59
  would be. I I set up the whole thing.
• 3:01
  I said, all right, you got your camera, here's your computer.
• 3:03
  I'll hit record. I'll leave you alone so you can
• 3:05
  do your thing. And walked out and she's seen me
• 3:08
  do episodes before and you just said I can't talk. 30 minutes.
• 3:11
  So yeah, I just felt like a fool.
• 3:13
  So instead I'm like, I could make fun of people for two
• 3:17
  minutes. Let's do it.
• 3:19
  We just started recording these skits.
• 3:22
  Yeah. So it's gotten it's.
• 3:23
  It's hard to feel comfortable on camera.
• 3:25
  So it's taken a long time and I'm still not fully comfortable,
• 3:27
  but hopefully by the time I reach I.
• 3:29
  I've heard it takes 100 videos to get like.
• 3:31
  Oh, I haven't heard that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 3:33
  So like any YouTube book that you read or you know.
• 3:36
  Pro, she's reading books on how to do YouTube and I've been on
• 3:39
  for a while, but I, I spend a lot of my time, you know,
• 3:41
  researching, doing the apologetic stuff.
• 3:44
  I'm only barely figuring out how to make the YouTube monster, the
• 3:48
  algorithm work. And she tells me, she says, oh,
• 3:50
  you got to hashtag this. You have to do this and that.
• 3:53
  And I feel like we're already kind of at a little bit of a
• 3:56
  generational divide between us. Between you and Laura.
• 4:00
  Yeah, I'm like a geriatric millennial and she's like an
• 4:03
  infant millennial. So wait, OK, so how did you guys
• 4:06
  meet? That's a story.
• 4:10
  So yeah, when I first saw Trent, he was actually filming with
• 4:14
  someone who he used to date. And my sister turned to me and
• 4:17
  said Trent and so and so used to date.
• 4:19
  And I said, Oh my gosh, that's so cute.
• 4:21
  They're totally going to get married.
• 4:23
  That girl had dumped me like 3 days before that that interview.
• 4:28
  So you know, so but but we were friends.
• 4:30
  Actually, what was nice about that relationship was she was a
• 4:32
  chastity speaker. So like we had actually a really
• 4:35
  solid and good relationship. We had a very chaste
• 4:39
  relationship because she was a chastity speaker.
• 4:42
  That's. Good.
• 4:43
  Well, we had rules like I remember, yeah, we had like a
• 4:46
  rule like, OK, we wanted to be a model for people.
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  So we said like, you know, we're not going to be alone together.
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  We're not going to sit in a car alone together.
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  The car just had to be moving. So I think once when I wanted to
• 4:55
  like show her like a Vista over the city, I just let the car
• 4:59
  slowly roll so that it would bypass the rule and then it
• 5:02
  almost like goes over the Cliff, but no.
• 5:04
  So she I just. Think friend.
• 5:06
  Ever. Right.
• 5:06
  So I think she she saw that and. And hopefully not roll off the
• 5:10
  Cliff, right? Hopefully not.
• 5:11
  You were looking where you were going.
• 5:13
  You're like and we're having a nice conversation.
• 5:15
  Beautiful the scenery. And that's why she dumped them.
• 5:20
  No, so so that's so funny that you thought like, oh, they're
• 5:23
  going to get married. So you didn't think anything?
• 5:25
  What's funny is this woman is Hispanic and Trent looks
• 5:28
  Hispanic. He looks everything right.
• 5:30
  So I just thought they looked cute together, like oh OK they.
• 5:34
  Wait, Trent, You, you. You never have known this.
• 5:36
  You've never known before that. Laura, when she first saw you,
• 5:39
  thought you were going to marry the girl.
• 5:40
  You were like, no. I knew that she thought that,
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  even though like, I'm sure somebody had to tell her.
• 5:44
  Well, Dre even told her they used to date past tense, not
• 5:48
  anymore. But she still thought, no, they
• 5:50
  look similar, they should be married.
• 5:52
  I think he's, I think he's looking for a compliment, Laura.
• 5:54
  Like when I first saw him I was like blown away by.
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  Enamored. I'm like, I'm going to kill that
• 6:00
  Lady right now. I love.
• 6:04
  How you and that picture, although my, I love how you
• 6:06
  couldn't figure out my ethnicity, though my ethnicity
• 6:08
  is kind of vague in general. I'm like Chick-fil-A sauce.
• 6:10
  I can go with anything. Yeah.
• 6:11
  Like what are? You exactly but.
• 6:15
  I. Don't know when.
• 6:16
  When did it did anything turn around?
• 6:18
  Yeah, actually. So then, so then I went to I
• 6:21
  kept on going to JFA trainings and that's when I like had more
• 6:24
  exposure to you. Yes.
• 6:25
  And I remember I was dating someone at the time, like a high
• 6:27
  school boyfriend, you know, those prolonged ones that you
• 6:29
  have loser and. Yeah, right, loser.
• 6:32
  But yeah. And then I remember saying,
• 6:36
  though, to Rebecca Wagner, one of the ladies that work there,
• 6:39
  like, I'd really like to marry someone like Trent, though, like
• 6:41
  someone who is just through the truth.
• 6:43
  And I feel like being pro-life is such a good litmus test.
• 6:46
  Oh yeah. Because the unborn literally
• 6:48
  can't repay you for anything that you do for them.
• 6:50
  So it's such a good, Yeah, litmus test, for lack of a
• 6:53
  better word, as far as like a a good man goes to search for.
• 6:57
  But one time we were at a training and I remember having
• 6:59
  the first conversation that I had with Trent and just up in
• 7:02
  the middle of a sentence, he just gets up and walks away from
• 7:05
  me. And I'm like, well, that was
• 7:06
  weird. That guy's kind of rude.
• 7:07
  And then I heard him speak and I'm like, never mind, that guy's
• 7:15
  I. Don't even remember why I would
• 7:17
  have gotten that. Maybe I it was because I had to
• 7:19
  go and speak and address the group.
• 7:21
  So wait, when you heard him speak, you're like you were kind
• 7:24
  of Oh. He was just such a good public
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  speaker and he did what he was talking about and he knew the
• 7:29
  faith. Like he was also giving talks on
• 7:31
  apologetics and like intensive trainings for people that were
• 7:36
  going to go on campus the next day.
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  So I just thought he was, you know, he he really knew who he
• 7:40
  was. And I thought that was really
• 7:42
  attractive. So then I went to Franciscan and
• 7:45
  I saw a video of him and I called over my roommate and I
• 7:47
  said, hey, come look at my future husband and around.
• 7:51
  Yeah, he was at you and him. I think the clip is still online
• 7:54
  of you it. Oh yeah, That was back in like
• 7:57
  it was like 2009, I think 2008, 2000. 9 of him talking to like
• 8:01
  this very angry pro choicer and I just thought it was so great,
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  but I knew Trent at the time. So then I said, oh, you were at
• 8:08
  U&M And he contacted me on Facebook chat.
• 8:12
  And then he said. Or maybe it was Facebook.
• 8:14
  Thanks, Mark Zuckerberg. And then he said, I'd love to
• 8:18
  call you about it. And I was like, oh, do you need
• 8:19
  my number? And then he was like, that's
• 8:22
  usually how people call each other.
• 8:24
  All right, guys. OK all.
• 8:26
  Right I I will admit here. This guy needs to take a notch
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  down right now. I will not stand for this.
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  I'm going to go out. I have to defend myself a little
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  because it is so funny now that we've been married for 10 years.
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  And you look back on the time when you were dating and when
• 8:41
  you were younger, like in your 20s, and there's so many.
• 8:44
  What was I thinking? Oh, why did I act like that?
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  But I do think there was a phase that I kind of went through in
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  my 20s where, you know, if, if I liked a girl and I wanted to
• 8:56
  like, get her attention and like, be able to go out with
• 8:59
  her, I was a little bit of a jerk, I guess.
• 9:03
  Wow. What an admission.
• 9:04
  Father wounds. OK, wait, wait.
• 9:07
  We got to psychoanalyze that one for just a quick second, because
• 9:10
  that's a big admission right there.
• 9:11
  Laura, here's the problem. There were a ton of guys who
• 9:13
  were super in love with you and they were super nice to you and
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  you never noticed. That is not true.
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  They were great friends. No, these are people.
• 9:22
  Wait, wait, hold on. This is actually really
• 9:24
  important for the podcast. OK, listen should go.
• 9:26
  Running with you on jogs at 4:00 in the morning to keep you
• 9:30
  company. Like they I could just tell they
• 9:33
  were just super nice and profusive with praise and you
• 9:37
  were just like, you're such a great friend.
• 9:38
  Totally. But they weren't.
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  Hold on, hold on. Listen, this is actually really
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  important. And I want to hear Laura, what
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  you have to say because Laura, it sounds like she doesn't agree
• 9:50
  because what you're saying, Trent, if I'm hearing it
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  correctly, is you kind of having this edge like the bad boy edge
• 9:57
  was what the pro-life apologetic Catholic dude is like doing
• 10:02
  pro-life speeches. But your edge of like, you know,
• 10:05
  oh, that's what you do. You call one when you with the
• 10:07
  phone number. Really, I was like the Jewish
• 10:09
  cowboy. I'm out on the range but I'll
• 10:11
  I'll spend freely. OK, anyway, Jewish cowboy, I
• 10:16
  think what you're saying, Trent, is that that was somehow like
• 10:18
  captivating for Laura. But Laura, tell let's let's hear
• 10:22
  it from you. What?
• 10:23
  What? What was that?
• 10:23
  But I think actually his, yeah, his forwardness actually made me
• 10:28
  call him back. Like, I remember I used to
• 10:31
  ignore people's phone calls, guys.
• 10:33
  Phone calls a lot actually. I was uncomfortable talking on
• 10:35
  the phone. I preferred to text.
• 10:37
  That's the generational. Device So they called me and I
• 10:39
  wouldn't pick it up and I'd like text them back, but and then I
• 10:42
  mean, I've, I I don't do that anymore.
• 10:44
  Like I've gotten older, you know, but that's how I was in
• 10:46
  high school and college and yeah, but Trent got mad at me
• 10:51
  for that. And he was like, I tried, I
• 10:53
  tried calling you. Well, I mean, it seemed mad, you
• 10:55
  know, he, he said it, but he doesn't laugh after he talks, so
• 10:58
  he's so serious. So you weren't?
• 11:01
  Sure. No emojis.
• 11:03
  Lila was supposed to do that, So.
• 11:05
  So. Yeah, so he said, you know, I've
• 11:07
  just been trying to call you and you never pick up my phone
• 11:09
  calls. And I think that that's really
• 11:11
  bad and you should pick up my phone calls basically.
• 11:14
  So I was like, OK, And I never missed a phone call since
• 11:17
  because I fear Trent. So never.
• 11:19
  Never. No, I was not this.
• 11:21
  I was not this domineering. Oh kind, but he's so his
• 11:25
  boundaries are so good we're. Going to start a GoFundMe here
• 11:28
  for therapy. Is my makeup covering my black
• 11:32
  eye? Yeah, I'm.
• 11:33
  Just kidding. Oh nice.
• 11:36
  And I'm so sorry that's coming off that he's not cuz he's no
• 11:39
  no. I know, Trench Knight.
• 11:41
  Half the time I get bruises is cuz you want to like practice
• 11:44
  punches on me. OK.
• 11:45
  What they're referring to, by the way, for people listening is
• 11:48
  I just learned this a few minutes ago, is that you
• 11:50
  actually do workout routines and one of them is you do boxing
• 11:53
  matches with each other, which I think is really cool.
• 11:56
  Yeah, so I I've done boxing for a while and and jiu jitsu and
• 12:00
  I've taken Laura has come with me to so far to a few.
• 12:05
  I've just gone twice, let's be honest.
• 12:07
  Yes, that's like the perfect sanguine.
• 12:09
  Oh, you went once with me, and you went once by yourself.
• 12:11
  That's a that's a habit. You're good.
• 12:13
  Totally rolled it. But it well, it was fun when we
• 12:17
  were Yeah. And then we were boxing partners
• 12:19
  that one time. And then you just you really,
• 12:21
  you were like loving hitting me in the.
• 12:24
  Wound, wound. OK, wait, wait, so so we'll
• 12:29
  we'll get we'll get to what you've learned in marriage
• 12:32
  because I have these questions. I ask like, what have you
• 12:34
  learned in marriage and your the surprises and the blessings and
• 12:39
  the but before just to kind of make sure we're understanding
• 12:42
  how you really met. So you met you kind of pre met.
• 12:45
  Then Trent connects with you, which is the word Trent used
• 12:50
  over Facebook. Yeah, because we were long
• 12:53
  distance. I was in Kansas and she was in
• 12:55
  Steubenville, then back to New Mexico.
• 12:57
  But what I want to know is, so you like Trent's like, OK, cute
• 13:00
  girl, she's a little young. Also, I'm doing my other thing.
• 13:03
  I'm pro-life activist, which is so awesome.
• 13:05
  And then Laura's at college. But how did that, like, was that
• 13:09
  out of nowhere? How did you reconnect to the
• 13:11
  point where like, did you just randomly message her on Facebook
• 13:15
  and just be like, hey, how's it going?
• 13:17
  I got up the courage and just sent, sent the Facebook chat to
• 13:22
  say hi. You know, I haven't spoken in a
• 13:24
  while. And then it gravitated from that
• 13:26
  to speaking on the phone and then to being able to meet up in
• 13:30
  person. Like if I would fly to to New
• 13:34
  Mexico or her sister actually flew her out to Phoenix to
• 13:38
  celebrate New Year's with me even before we were dating
• 13:40
  because her sister's like, you should marry Trent.
• 13:42
  Oh wow, so wait, this is a family thing?
• 13:45
  Yes. Oh no, that's a trend.
• 13:47
  Beforehand, because she went, she did JFA.
• 13:50
  Yeah, OK. She knew Trent beforehand and
• 13:52
  then I did a JFA trip with her, which is when I first saw Trent.
• 13:56
  OK. And so then we had the long
• 13:59
  distance thing where we would call and go and visit each
• 14:02
  other. I remember once I, I took a bus
• 14:04
  from Kansas to New Mexico. I think it was about 13 hours
• 14:07
  all through the night. Yeah.
• 14:09
  And like, I called you and you called me.
• 14:11
  Like, are you OK? I'm like, I can't talk much on
• 14:12
  the phone. There's sketchy people on the
• 14:14
  bus. They can't.
• 14:14
  No, I have a cell phone it. Was wow, it's all well worth it.
• 14:19
  That's true love. I.
• 14:21
  Know he did so many chivalrous, really great things for us.
• 14:24
  Yeah. He really pursued me.
• 14:25
  So that was really a gift. Yeah, and I barely had any.
• 14:29
  I was just like a struggling post college student.
• 14:31
  I remember I would stay at the Motel 6 in town to go and visit
• 14:35
  you. And I went to the front desk
• 14:36
  clerk and they gave me my room. And they said, here you go.
• 14:40
  I'm like, oh, what room am I in? They just pointed to the paper.
• 14:42
  And I was like, oh, why can't you say anything?
• 14:45
  And they said we're not allowed to say room number out loud so
• 14:47
  that nobody follows you to your room and does something.
• 14:50
  And I was like, oh, OK. You're like, does that happen a
• 14:53
  lot here? I'm like just last night, murder
• 14:56
  in the building. Go to the Quality Inn.
• 14:58
  But no. So, yeah.
• 14:59
  And then we, we did it. We did that.
• 15:01
  And then eventually after Justice for All, you know, we,
• 15:04
  you know, we dated and I moved to New Mexico and got a job
• 15:07
  there so we could actually date in person and went through that
• 15:12
  process. And then eventually we got
• 15:13
  engaged after we had a good plan where I got a job at the Diocese
• 15:17
  of Phoenix doing respect life work and Laura was on the cusp
• 15:21
  of finishing nursing school in Albuquerque.
• 15:24
  So there's so long. We were long distance basically
• 15:26
  until we got married. So when was the moment that each
• 15:30
  of you you knew the other person was the one?
• 15:33
  Yeah. And by the way, just to qualify,
• 15:36
  I do believe in this idea of the one in terms of, and what I mean
• 15:40
  by that is that there's a moment of peace that you get, you know,
• 15:43
  if you're someone who's seeking wisdom, your values are aligned,
• 15:46
  you're you're seeking, you know, the right things towards
• 15:48
  marriage, marriage, right? So it's not just like
• 15:49
  infatuation or whatever. There is this moment that can
• 15:52
  come where you experience this piece of knowing.
• 15:54
  OK, yes, I really believe I can commit my life to this person.
• 15:56
  I want them to commit my life to me.
• 15:58
  I call that knowing the one in that sense.
• 16:00
  So what was that moment for each of you?
• 16:03
  Mine probably will be less profound than Laura.
• 16:05
  I guess I just remember once we were driving together in the car
• 16:09
  and she was telling me a story about a nice older lady she knew
• 16:14
  from a senior citizen. So now it's going to sound bad.
• 16:17
  Making fun of an old lady, he thought.
• 16:20
  The impression was really. Funny, he did this amazing
• 16:23
  impression of her that I thought was just so funny.
• 16:26
  And she just made me do this belly laugh.
• 16:29
  And I just, I just don't laugh a lot for things.
• 16:32
  It takes a lot of people to get me to laugh.
• 16:34
  And just like that, it just culminated knowing that like
• 16:37
  Laura is really funny and she's someone that I can really get
• 16:41
  along with and be myself with. Because there are people who
• 16:46
  are, you know, very holy people who, who check all of the, the
• 16:51
  boxes right, of the ideal Catholic spouse, but you just
• 16:54
  don't get along with them that well, even if they're very holy
• 16:56
  and they, they meet all the criteria.
• 16:58
  So for me though, I was like, no, this is even better than
• 17:00
  that. It's someone that I can be
• 17:02
  myself with and, and have fun. And just just to identify those
• 17:06
  really joy, joyful qualities, not just being funny, but just
• 17:09
  seeing how she's just such a very joyful person.
• 17:12
  So what was that? After that it's like, will you
• 17:13
  marry me, Laura in the car? How long till after that moment
• 17:17
  did you? What was it?
• 17:19
  Was the proposal? Well.
• 17:20
  We dated for about a year and a half and then we were engaged
• 17:22
  for a year and a half and so. But when did that moment happen
• 17:26
  in the dating process? Oh, knowing that we would get
• 17:29
  married. Yeah, you having that moment in
• 17:31
  the car where you're just like, yeah, this is this is a white,
• 17:33
  this is this is my wife, I hope. Well, we were, I think we were
• 17:36
  driving in Kansas, so that might have been early on in dating.
• 17:39
  I knew it's like, you know, but then it's like, oh, maybe you
• 17:42
  should just sort out all the other things just to make sure.
• 17:45
  Like sure do your check your homework basically.
• 17:48
  Yeah, but but in the back of your mind, you always have like
• 17:50
  that, that good feeling and you just want to make sure like, oh,
• 17:55
  she's not actually a serial killer that's had three former
• 17:57
  husbands who died mysteriously or something like that.
• 17:59
  It's like all good, everything, all, you know, it all checks
• 18:02
  out. But.
• 18:02
  It takes time to run a background check.
• 18:05
  Yes, 40. 8 hours I think. And, and it's important also,
• 18:09
  even if everything is right, like I love with dating, like I
• 18:12
  love being around her and her family, like if she has an
• 18:14
  awesome Catholic family, I don't have a Catholic family.
• 18:17
  And so that's a part of it. And for me, though, with dating,
• 18:21
  I always used to give people this advice.
• 18:22
  If you want to know if it's the right person, you should ask
• 18:25
  yourself, would you be OK with this person raising your
• 18:28
  children if you died? And even at the very beginning
• 18:32
  of dating Laura, I was like, yeah, she's, she's a solid,
• 18:36
  joyful, holy person, not just someone who's just going to
• 18:39
  always be grim with our children about the faith, but live it out
• 18:42
  authentically, joyfully and bring that, that vibrant spirit
• 18:46
  for them and be a really good mom.
• 18:47
  So like, I know, like, if I drop dead, they're they're in good
• 18:51
  hands. I don't have to worry about
• 18:52
  anything. And I knew that pretty early on
• 18:54
  dating. And that really helped to move
• 18:56
  me into, you know, engagement and more discernment.
• 18:58
  Yeah, well, I want to double check that with the priest in
• 19:01
  the confessional. Too late, it's undone now.
• 19:05
  Like a little handcuff basically.
• 19:10
  What about you? What was your moment of the one?
• 19:12
  Well, I am more of a waffler, so I went back and forth quite a
• 19:16
  bit. No, I knew that I wanted to
• 19:18
  marry early on, but I'm more of a second guesser.
• 19:22
  Like, oh. No, we can't even go out to
• 19:24
  dinner. I'll say, like, where do you
• 19:26
  want to go? I am amazed.
• 19:29
  That's a hard decision getting which restaurant, what to order
• 19:32
  that those are, those are difficult things for a sanguine,
• 19:35
  right, Because I, I'm, I'm a little sanguine too.
• 19:37
  So it's like, but choosing a spouse, I mean that's like 1000
• 19:40
  restaurants or or more but. Yes, so.
• 19:44
  But no, I read the book 3 to get married and that book was really
• 19:47
  helpful. So.
• 19:48
  By Fulton Sheen. Yeah, by Fulton Sheen.
• 19:49
  And that's when I was like, oh, OK, well, Trent is unrepeatable.
• 19:52
  And this is like, it's two imperfect people and I'm looking
• 19:57
  for like this aha moment or this like perfect sign when really it
• 20:03
  just leads to peace, like you said.
• 20:05
  And so then I was, you know, I I really wanted to marry Trent.
• 20:09
  And then I said. You're never going to marry me.
• 20:14
  You, you want to bring it up, don't you?
• 20:17
  We did. We broke up briefly because it
• 20:19
  didn't seem like things were going in the right direction.
• 20:21
  Well. It was hard.
• 20:22
  What does that mean? Things weren't going in the
• 20:25
  right direction. I was concerned, I was trying to
• 20:29
  pray and it didn't seem right to continue, especially since I got
• 20:32
  in this job in Phoenix to have be the respect life coordinator
• 20:38
  and and you know, it's very hard to find a full time job in the
• 20:41
  pro-life movement to to be able to do that full time.
• 20:45
  And Laura was still on a path to do nursing school.
• 20:47
  And if she had moved to Phoenix with me, she would have the
• 20:52
  admission process to nursing schools is a long wait list in
• 20:56
  Phoenix. Where is she was on a fast track
• 20:58
  in New Mexico. And so we didn't know, I didn't
• 21:01
  know if long distance could continue.
• 21:03
  I just prayed about it and things just didn't seem right.
• 21:05
  I didn't feel called to continue dating.
• 21:07
  And so then we we broke up. But then if a few months later,
• 21:11
  I felt like I had a lot more clarity and it was helpful for
• 21:14
  us to kind of be a part. And like Laura continued to
• 21:16
  study apologetics. It wasn't just something she did
• 21:18
  just because she was dating me. We felt more like 2 whole
• 21:23
  persons and I felt like if we really did discern marriage, we
• 21:27
  could persevere long distance through a year or two.
• 21:31
  And I think we just needed a little bit of that space.
• 21:33
  But I'm always hesitant to share this story because then they're
• 21:37
  all these women will come up to Laura and be like, my boyfriend
• 21:39
  broke up with me. Do you think he'll marry me like
• 21:42
  you guys like? It's called a breakup because
• 21:44
  it's broken. We are the exception.
• 21:47
  Don't. Don't emulate that.
• 21:49
  As we, yeah, don't. It's an exception to the rule,
• 21:52
  but yeah, but I'm sorry, we have a statute of limitations
• 21:55
  actually on fights that we've had.
• 21:57
  Oh. Yes, I love this.
• 21:58
  So I'm sorry that I brought that up so.
• 22:01
  If oh OK, sorry, we just went there.
• 22:03
  OK, got it. Something if we had a fight
• 22:05
  about something, if you did something wrong and had a fight
• 22:07
  about it, you're not allowed to bring it up again after 10
• 22:11
  years. So she hasn't forgiven you yet?
• 22:14
  It's been 10 years. It's been 10 years, yeah.
• 22:16
  But but just to clarify, isn't a trend We were talking about
• 22:19
  temperaments before we started recording.
• 22:22
  And you're sanguine, Laura, Right.
• 22:23
  And Trent's melancholic melancholics are like the the
• 22:28
  quintessential double triple guessers.
• 22:31
  They're always, you know, thinking and, you know, bad
• 22:33
  temple. But once they're committed like
• 22:36
  nothing will change their mind. Like nothing.
• 22:40
  For instance, he started jiu jitsu with this gym and he I'm
• 22:43
  like, you can switch gyms. He's like, no, they're my
• 22:46
  friends. Like well, they choke you so
• 22:50
  they're not super your friends. You can switch.
• 22:54
  But once he's committed, he's in it for life.
• 22:57
  No, that's the thing. Like I might.
• 22:59
  Wave her that's good because that's marriage.
• 23:00
  So that's that's. Good.
• 23:01
  But then once I commit to something, it's done and it's
• 23:05
  forever. Whereas A sanguine might
• 23:08
  immediately say, yeah, let's do it.
• 23:09
  And then the rest of the time. How can I get out of this?
• 23:12
  Right, I had to work on that. Right.
• 23:14
  It's it's a OK. So then you you get back
• 23:17
  together, you get engaged. Can you share the proposal
• 23:19
  story? Right.
• 23:22
  So we were living in New Mexico. I I I took you out to melting
• 23:28
  pot because I figure if I stuffed you with enough melted
• 23:30
  cheese, you wouldn't be able to think clearly enough to say no.
• 23:33
  Yes, I marry you. I'm not marrying Jabba the Hunt.
• 23:39
  Will you marry me? Did.
• 23:43
  You ask her at the restaurant Trent.
• 23:45
  No, so we would that that was just to prime everything with
• 23:48
  just delicious rich food. Then after that we went to
• 23:53
  Adoration. Adoration prayed there when when
• 23:57
  we got outside, I had flowers and then I just did the the
• 24:00
  classic down on one knee. Yeah.
• 24:02
  Quoted 3 to get married. Yes, I quote that's right.
• 24:04
  I quoted from the book 3 to get married.
• 24:06
  I read a little poem from from that book yes, and then I gave
• 24:11
  you the the before I even got to.
• 24:13
  I didn't even get to finish what I was going to say.
• 24:14
  She just like jumped up and like hugged me and said I will, and I
• 24:19
  didn't even get to finish my little line.
• 24:20
  Sorry. Would like to finish it now.
• 24:22
  No, I'm not going to finish it. Now, and it's been 10 years, you
• 24:25
  said 10 years. Yes, 10 years for 10 years in
• 24:28
  May. Amazing.
• 24:31
  OK, so what's been the biggest surprise of being married?
• 24:35
  And Laura, are you first? We were kind of thrown into
• 24:37
  marriage. So yeah, cuz we were long
• 24:40
  distance for all three years that we were dated and dated and
• 24:43
  engaged. So it was kind of a shock.
• 24:46
  I'd say the biggest surprise in marriage.
• 24:50
  Well, having children surprises you.
• 24:54
  Yep, nothing like it. Yeah, nothing like it.
• 24:57
  And just what a great person you can be and what awful, you know,
• 25:01
  faults you have to work on. Like, wow, I didn't know that I
• 25:05
  could love this much. And also how crazy I was.
• 25:08
  So, yeah. So that's been a surprise.
• 25:10
  But yeah, just seeing also just what peace I think follows when
• 25:14
  you live your vocation properly has been, you know, the greatest
• 25:17
  joyful surprise for me. Yeah, the, the biggest surprise
• 25:22
  in marriage, I don't know, is, is thinking that like you can
• 25:26
  have these really like immense fights or conflicts and yet they
• 25:33
  don't define your relationship. Whereas before you're married,
• 25:37
  you might think if you said to someone, oh, this was the fight
• 25:40
  that we had. If you're just boyfriend and
• 25:41
  girlfriend, you might think, Oh yeah, you got to dump that
• 25:43
  person. You know, you, you know, you
• 25:45
  never think like, oh, that's something.
• 25:47
  And obviously we've never, there are relationships that are
• 25:50
  unhealthy or dangerous. But I'm just saying that you
• 25:54
  can. Well, I don't know.
• 25:55
  I think what attracted us to each other is that we have,
• 25:59
  well, here's the thing. What is a nice reflection of you
• 26:01
  is your, your children. It it, it's just hilarious how
• 26:05
  much of a reflection of of yourself that you see in them.
• 26:09
  Like our children are loud and perform and are very headstrong
• 26:17
  of what they think is the right thing to do.
• 26:18
  Not an easy going one in the bunch, not a one flag.
• 26:22
  Great combo. Not a one, but.
• 26:23
  And that's, but that's the thing.
• 26:25
  It's like, like I used to do high school drama.
• 26:26
  I've done debate. I'll go out and debate you'll,
• 26:28
  you have you had no problem debating professors on college
• 26:32
  campuses or doing chassis talks and telling people to keep it in
• 26:36
  their pants and just telling them how it was.
• 26:38
  So I, I think that if we both, we both go into marriage with
• 26:40
  that attitude. Sometimes, you know, the, the
• 26:42
  locomotives can hit each other. But what's so surprising is that
• 26:46
  you can have these conflict conflagrations, big blow UPS if
• 26:51
  you will, and yet you can still, but then it, it subsides and you
• 26:55
  have this overwhelming peace. And then those things are, are,
• 26:58
  are the rarities. Where is just the the peace that
• 27:00
  you have in the midst of of knowing that you're 1 flesh that
• 27:04
  you're you're not just like some kind of partnership.
• 27:06
  You really have become one. And you know what was funny
• 27:10
  today? I don't I don't.
• 27:12
  Does this ever happened to you? But I was walking out to my car
• 27:14
  and I was thinking the things I need to do and I said OK, and
• 27:18
  then mom will go and get the kids instead of saying Laura, do
• 27:22
  you? Ever do that?
• 27:23
  Like that's the primary relationship now.
• 27:25
  Well, yeah, but thinking like in these?
• 27:27
  You guys need to go on a date tonight after this is over.
• 27:32
  Like I'm I'm more than your mother.
• 27:33
  I'm a wife threat. No, but think but thinking of
• 27:37
  yourselves as a maternal and paternal.
• 27:39
  Identity. No, totally.
• 27:40
  Your your children bond you together.
• 27:43
  It's so true in. This in this way so I didn't.
• 27:46
  Know and it's beautiful it's beautiful like.
• 27:48
  You as a mother, you're just a caretaker.
• 27:50
  I'd say my primary surprise actually, you know, as far as
• 27:53
  like practicality goes would be just how much hair Trent has and
• 27:58
  that it falls off like and like, men are a lot to clean up after,
• 28:04
  but that's made. But at the same, no, at the same
• 28:09
  time, what I cause in my manly presence that might make things
• 28:14
  not as dainty as a woman would like, I think I make up for with
• 28:18
  my manly prerogatives of organizing and cleaning the.
• 28:22
  House, that's true. Thank you.
• 28:23
  So like when I'm out of town, like normally at night after
• 28:26
  everyone goes to bed, I just float about the house and try to
• 28:30
  clean up, organize or just do like, dad things.
• 28:33
  Like the filter on the water filter hasn't been changed in
• 28:35
  five months. I better go and check on that.
• 28:37
  And so it's those little things that do add up.
• 28:39
  So like, if I wasn't there, yeah, you might not, you might
• 28:41
  have a a nice bathroom, but sudden you're like, why is the
• 28:44
  water brown? Oh no, the filter Trent always
• 28:46
  changed that. Dang it, my Trent fairy.
• 28:49
  What's the what's the best thing?
• 28:51
  The best thing in the last 10 years of marriage?
• 28:56
  Why? Why wouldn't?
• 28:57
  You just think because there's so many things.
• 28:59
  That I you can do. You can do too.
• 29:01
  What are your top two things? Top two things that you that
• 29:04
  just have been like, amazing. So like one thing.
• 29:06
  I was talking to my husband recently and we were just, I
• 29:09
  mean, marveling about our two boys.
• 29:11
  We're just like, oh, they're so like magical.
• 29:13
  Like, what the heck? How did this?
• 29:15
  We're so blessed. I can't believe it.
• 29:17
  Yeah. Or just like, oh, I, you know,
• 29:19
  when you're first get married, it's like, oh, I get to wake up
• 29:20
  with you every single day. Like I don't ever have to say
• 29:23
  bye. And it's just so amazing, you
• 29:27
  know, and then you fight later on, but then you make up and
• 29:29
  it's like, it's still amazing. It's even more because there's
• 29:31
  more depth than like, you know more, more truth to the
• 29:34
  relationship you ghost. You ghost me in the morning
• 29:37
  because you like going on walks, like I'll be like, I'll wake up
• 29:40
  like my beloved, and then there's just nobody there
• 29:42
  ghosted. Good for you Laura, though.
• 29:44
  Is that before the kids get up? Yeah, I used to.
• 29:47
  And then try and ask me to stop because then the kids would wake
• 29:49
  up and he said he hated waking up with them.
• 29:51
  So if I could be home. No, that's no, no, Here's the
• 29:55
  thing. We.
• 29:55
  Go during nap. Time awesome to be equitable.
• 29:58
  My policy with kids and nights and mornings is like I'm a night
• 30:02
  person, Laura's a morning person so I am happy waking up and
• 30:05
  taking. If the kids need something and
• 30:07
  have a problem, I'm happy to do that up till about 3 or 4 in the
• 30:10
  morning. So you do shifts.
• 30:12
  I just want my shift change. Of yeah, yeah.
• 30:15
  And then I do early mornings so it works out.
• 30:17
  I love mornings so. But yeah, the biggest oh, the
• 30:21
  thing that was made like most happy in marriage or.
• 30:24
  The best thing? Yeah, one or two of the best
• 30:25
  things in the last 10 years. Well, I mean, children bringing
• 30:32
  us together, but I just remember our third child was born at home
• 30:35
  accidentally. We we didn't plan on that.
• 30:37
  We just were, you know, we didn't like the COVID rules of
• 30:40
  the hospitals. We were going to go in at the
• 30:41
  last minute and then. There was no last minute.
• 30:44
  It was like a right, it was a 48 hour laborer.
• 30:48
  This kid literally was like a 48 minute laborer.
• 30:50
  Yeah, it was an hour and I caught him and I was just
• 30:53
  holding this and he's all looking around all confused,
• 30:56
  like you, you're not an MD. What are you doing?
• 30:58
  And I'm like, I'm thinking the same thing, kid, you know.
• 31:00
  And so I don't know, the the best thing have just been those
• 31:05
  moments just when all five of us are together and it's like we
• 31:10
  all went to get ice cream or we're all coming home from
• 31:13
  confession and like we're all together and like there's just
• 31:16
  this sign of our love. That's that's really multiplied
• 31:20
  it to and to and to reflect. Like, I love just looking, you
• 31:23
  know, at our children and seeing Laura reflected in them.
• 31:27
  And that to me is probably even more so.
• 31:31
  I mean, it is nice marriage like before you have kids, you know,
• 31:34
  it's, it's like, it feels like dating, but it's like, hey, you
• 31:37
  don't have to do the awkward. Well, I'm going to head home
• 31:38
  now. You know, it's, it's nice.
• 31:40
  You don't have to do that anymore.
• 31:41
  Yeah, it is nice, especially after being long distance for so
• 31:43
  long. Totally.
• 31:44
  But at this end, it is nice, it's great, but there's just
• 31:48
  something different about, you know, what's the nice thing
• 31:49
  about having kids is we'll sit around and then finally, when
• 31:51
  they're all to bed, we'll just say like, what did we used to
• 31:55
  fight about before we had kids? Totally.
• 31:58
  We could do whatever we wanted. They still fought and they can't
• 32:01
  remember what it was. But then you wouldn't trade it,
• 32:04
  That's the thing. It's like you would look back on
• 32:06
  like, oh, we had so much time and everything, but it's like,
• 32:10
  this is such magic. Like these human beings are just
• 32:13
  immensely precious. So I can't imagine life without
• 32:17
  them. And not just the not just kids,
• 32:20
  but in the context, I think, I think the best thing about
• 32:23
  marriage has been having someone that you can just confide with
• 32:31
  and not have to worry about what you tell them to know that this
• 32:35
  is someone that I can just totally trust.
• 32:37
  It isn't, you know, not having to try to find a friend or a
• 32:41
  therapist. And, and obviously you should
• 32:43
  have friends. I mean if you need a therapist I
• 32:45
  I understand that, though I I'm skeptical sometimes but.
• 32:49
  Therapists are good, big thumbs up for me.
• 32:53
  So, but just the biggest thing for me has just been, yes, so
• 32:56
  some of those moments when just we can be vulnerable with each
• 32:58
  other and say like what we're struggling with and know that we
• 33:01
  have another person who wants to to bear those burdens with us,
• 33:06
  who's committed to bearing those burdens with us.
• 33:09
  Yeah, Laura, best thing. You've said it all.
• 33:11
  Well, the best thing I can't actually share on this I guess.
• 33:14
  One of those things. OK, All right, all right.
• 33:17
  That's fair. No.
• 33:18
  No, you don't. Don't be that emphatic.
• 33:20
  You can say that it is your favorite thing and you just
• 33:24
  can't. That just came out.
• 33:25
  If you could edit this, I would appreciate that.
• 33:27
  Just kidding, but no, I'd say the best, the best memory that I
• 33:31
  have of our marriage with Trent is.
• 33:34
  Of our marriage with. Our marriage?
• 33:38
  What did I say? Your marriage?
• 33:39
  I didn't mean to say that. I'm sorry.
• 33:42
  That of our marriage, our best, my best memory of our marriage,
• 33:45
  there we go, is when I stopped working.
• 33:50
  And yeah, but when I when I was working, I was kind of hard to
• 33:55
  be around. And Trent was very, very
• 33:57
  patient. You weren't hard to be around,
• 33:58
  you were just be stressed if you had to go to work the next day
• 34:02
  if you or if you had just worked the previous day.
• 34:06
  So I think and you only work three days a week.
• 34:07
  So I think you were a mess 6 out.
• 34:11
  Of seven days. So your your arrangement right
• 34:14
  now is transfering primary out of homework, so to speak of a
• 34:17
  lot of this from home and then you're doing primary kids.
• 34:20
  Yes, absolutely. So yeah.
• 34:22
  And then I homeschool our children and so yeah, that's my
• 34:24
  primary role now and I really love it so.
• 34:26
  But while I was working, I was not, you know, some women are
• 34:30
  handle better at handling stress than others.
• 34:32
  And I was not great at handling, you know, work home balance.
• 34:36
  So but Trent was just so patient.
• 34:37
  So I remember, you know, coming out of that when I could finally
• 34:40
  quit my job and like just seeing him like, Oh my gosh, you, you
• 34:44
  waited for me, you know? So.
• 34:47
  Like it would have been so easy for him to be like, this is too
• 34:49
  much because we even we had just gotten married, you know, So
• 34:53
  like I think it would have been easy for him, but he's just so
• 34:55
  he's so patient with his parents and so I knew he would be
• 34:58
  patient with me. He's just very kind to his
• 35:01
  parents and he honors them. So I knew he would be also
• 35:04
  patient with me when I met him so.
• 35:06
  I love that bet. OK, so then best advice you
• 35:09
  would have for somebody listening who is maybe single,
• 35:13
  they're totally single and they want to get married one day or
• 35:16
  they are dating and or maybe they're married, but just your
• 35:19
  best advice for relationships. Well, there, there's some advice
• 35:25
  that I think is applicable to anyone in regardless of the
• 35:29
  stage or it might depend on the stage.
• 35:32
  And I do think there's some advice that is specific to men
• 35:35
  and specific to women, though. So I, I think in general, I
• 35:42
  think the biggest thing I think there is a difference we maybe
• 35:45
  we should separate discerning marriage versus living marriage
• 35:51
  because when you're discerning there is a legitimate option of
• 35:54
  calling it quits. True.
• 35:57
  Yeah. So absolutely.
• 35:58
  You have to separate that in the and and that would sometimes
• 36:01
  that's a very good decision. Once you are married that is not
• 36:04
  on the table. So that's why I think you have
• 36:07
  to look at it into. OK, how about this Best best
• 36:10
  advice for discerning? We'll go with that since most
• 36:13
  folk people listening are probably not married yet.
• 36:17
  Try to see see how your girlfriend, fiance, your
• 36:24
  beloved, see how your beloved acts around others, the less
• 36:30
  fortunate and especially their family.
• 36:34
  I think that if you the way a woman treats her father and the
• 36:38
  way a man treats his mother, that's how they're going to
• 36:42
  treat their spouse. And so I think that when you see
• 36:46
  that, and especially the Bible says that a plan with many
• 36:49
  counselors will succeed. Having other people in your life
• 36:52
  to give you a thumb, to give you advice and to confirm or
• 36:57
  disconfirm, especially if they are, you trust them and they're
• 37:00
  not just yes men or yes women. I think that that's crucial that
• 37:03
  I mean, dating, a lot of dating can just be really fake.
• 37:06
  You go out, you have fun. But like we got to know each
• 37:09
  other best. I think when we would go out and
• 37:10
  we would do talks together. That's true in service.
• 37:13
  Yeah, service. That would be my advice, like
• 37:16
  marry, get to know someone in the context of service, because
• 37:19
  then you know that they have a servant's heart and that they,
• 37:22
  you know, love children and they love the unborn and they love
• 37:24
  the elderly. And so it just, you know, it's a
• 37:27
  good, good test that way. I also think on the the dating
• 37:30
  advice element there, well, I guess for men and women men, you
• 37:38
  men need to grow up and women should not.
• 37:42
  You know, men send often times their their challenges that they
• 37:45
  got to grow up and get their act together, career ability to
• 37:48
  provide. Women, I think often times
• 37:50
  nowadays have to be careful not to wrap themselves up completely
• 37:54
  in occupation. And that is an identity to leave
• 37:58
  to leave themselves open to being pursued.
• 38:01
  Doesn't mean you should just sit around and not be doing
• 38:04
  anything. But I what I thought about
• 38:06
  dating. I don't know if I don't know if
• 38:07
  you I'm sure you agree with this.
• 38:09
  I think that men have the responsibility to make the first
• 38:12
  move and women have the responsibility to send the 1st
• 38:15
  signal when it comes to the interactions that people have.
• 38:19
  So it's. Like that's a fairpoint.
• 38:20
  To be receptive. We can maybe do a debate on that
• 38:23
  in the future, Trent, about what are the responsibilities of the
• 38:26
  man and the woman in the in courtship?
• 38:29
  What what about you Laura? What is your best advice for
• 38:31
  dating? Yeah, my, my best advice for
• 38:34
  dating would probably be, you know, to get to know someone in
• 38:36
  the context of service. You know, at my best, my best
• 38:40
  advice for marriage actually would probably be to I, I listen
• 38:44
  to a lot of people's advice and I actually think that that made
• 38:46
  me treat Trent differently. So to find really just like one
• 38:51
  or two that you want to emulate and ask them because usually
• 38:56
  they're very humble and they're very, you know, they'll tell you
• 38:59
  like what they did wrong and what they did right.
• 39:00
  And then, you know, not seek people's advice that aren't
• 39:05
  doing it right. You know, like don't talk to
• 39:07
  friends that have struggling marriages about what to do with
• 39:09
  marriage. So I mean really like I've done
• 39:12
  that before and it has really been but confusing.
• 39:16
  So that would be my advice to. Me.
• 39:17
  You wouldn't take health advice from somebody who has heart
• 39:20
  disease and diabetes. Why would you take relationship
• 39:22
  advice from someone who's been divorced?
• 39:24
  It's a good, it's a really good point.
• 39:27
  And also what you're saying, Laura, there's so much advice
• 39:29
  everywhere and it's easy when their advice, the people giving
• 39:34
  the advice aren't in your exact situation, don't know you really
• 39:38
  well, the people that you're dealing with.
• 39:40
  So it's so easy to take advice wrong and wrongly apply it or
• 39:45
  make mistakes in the application, which is kind of
• 39:47
  what you're saying that like, you know, you treated
• 39:49
  differently. And I've noticed that too.
• 39:50
  It's if you, you know, taking on all this advice, you it's like
• 39:54
  interpreting your own life a certain way when maybe it's not
• 39:57
  actually that's the way that your life is.
• 39:59
  You're you're misreading your own situation because you're
• 40:01
  reading other narratives onto it as opposed to seeing it for what
• 40:04
  it is, which can be. You know, can make issues
• 40:07
  actually in the relationship. So I love that what you said,
• 40:10
  like having good mentor couples or people that you actually can
• 40:13
  trust that you think have healthy relationships that you
• 40:15
  want to emulate. And there may be people you
• 40:18
  could go to for advice. And it's really hard to find
• 40:21
  today. It's hard to find today, but
• 40:23
  it's so precious if you can find it.
• 40:25
  And I think also, especially in the dating process, it's
• 40:28
  important to remember like you want to, you want to watch out
• 40:30
  for red flags. Obviously, if someone is clearly
• 40:34
  emotionally manipulative, abusive, does not have their act
• 40:39
  together, there are other, there are other people that you can
• 40:43
  better spend your time with. But the same time, you don't
• 40:45
  want to be so picky whether you're a guy or a girl that
• 40:49
  nobody's ever good enough. Because here's the problem.
• 40:51
  There's billions of people in the world.
• 40:53
  There's always there. There's always going to be
• 40:54
  someone that you might think you're more compatible with, but
• 40:58
  then there's always going to be flaws in the person that you are
• 41:01
  attracted to because nobody's perfect.
• 41:03
  But what I appreciate about marriage, being married for 10
• 41:05
  years, it's like people always say things like, oh, how come
• 41:08
  all the good ones are married? Like, how come all the good guys
• 41:10
  are, are married? It's not that all the, that's
• 41:13
  the thing. It's not, it's not that all the
• 41:14
  good ones are married. It's that to become one of the
• 41:18
  marriage is what turns men into the good ones and it helps to
• 41:23
  shape and form them. And it's the same for women in
• 41:26
  marriage. That's what's so good about
• 41:28
  becoming one flesh is that you are too complete yet imperfect
• 41:34
  people who perfect one another within the bonds of marriage.
• 41:38
  I love that. Is that somewhere in the
• 41:40
  Catechism of Trent? I don't know, but if they if
• 41:43
  they want to take it in a revision, they they don't have
• 41:44
  to credit me or. Anything that's that with a
• 41:46
  Trent twist Want. To be codependent, you don't
• 41:48
  want to have like, I need this person to be happy or I need
• 41:51
  this person or else I'm not going to be able to make it like
• 41:53
  you don't want to be codependent, you want to be.
• 41:55
  You want to be psychologically, physically, socially, and
• 41:58
  emotionally complete and that you're a healthy person, but
• 42:02
  noticing that you're imperfect and that this other person helps
• 42:05
  to perfect you like iron sharpens iron, as scripture
• 42:08
  says. OK, so one more, I love that one
• 42:10
  more big question. Then we're going to do our end
• 42:13
  of the end fun, fun. Last three questions.
• 42:16
  But the next big 1 is so there's four more questions, but the
• 42:20
  next big 1 is OK, what do you think are the what do you think
• 42:25
  is, you know, you've mentioned red flags trend, but what are
• 42:28
  some things that you think people should avoid or avoid
• 42:33
  doing basically? And this can be more for in
• 42:35
  marriage, you know, some like something that you found like
• 42:37
  this is like a no go zone. So, like, we were kind of
• 42:40
  talking before this interview, but I was talking about a
• 42:43
  therapist who says if a couple's arguing at all, just to stop
• 42:46
  arguing. And you know, if there's any
• 42:48
  negative emotion in that conversation, stop it.
• 42:51
  Come back to it later if you're kind of in this rut of arguing,
• 42:54
  right? So it's like advice about what
• 42:55
  not to do. What would be advice, you know,
• 42:58
  one top thing each of you, maybe Laura, if you want to start
• 43:00
  that, you say this is something I would recommend not doing in
• 43:03
  marriage. And obviously like, well, don't
• 43:05
  cheat on your spouse. I don't, you know, don't be a
• 43:08
  jerk, you know? I don't, I don't even have Alexa
• 43:11
  like or Siri. She's like, who are you talking
• 43:13
  to? Too jealous.
• 43:13
  I don't like that that woman does whatever he asks her.
• 43:17
  OK, Trent, I'll tell you how many meters are in a mile and
• 43:20
  I'm like, get rid of her. OK, so don't use Alexa.
• 43:24
  Totally. I'm just kidding.
• 43:25
  But yeah, OK, my advice would be specifically to women, and that
• 43:29
  would be don't nag. Don't nag.
• 43:31
  If I could heed my own advice, I would love it.
• 43:36
  But I've really learned that nagging doesn't accomplish what
• 43:39
  you want it to accomplish. And really, you know you're so
• 43:43
  busy controlling everything externally instead of looking
• 43:47
  internally. Would really if you are just
• 43:51
  kind to your husband and patient and listen and let them serve
• 43:54
  you, it goes so much smoother just to be receptive to service
• 44:01
  instead of criticizing everything they try to do.
• 44:03
  It has gone a lot smoother for us.
• 44:05
  OK, that's a good that's So what's your advice for if you
• 44:08
  want to ask if you if you're if you feel your needs you're not
• 44:11
  being met as a. The.
• 44:14
  Empowered wife, which you know, I don't agree with everything in
• 44:17
  the book, but you know, it's a pretty good book.
• 44:19
  And so, so I've started saying like you get down to your, your
• 44:23
  core desire. So for instance, if the house is
• 44:26
  a mess, instead of saying like Trent, you never help me pick up
• 44:29
  anything. Like I call it a nagging lawn
• 44:32
  mower, like when you start an old lawn mower.
• 44:36
  So, but instead I'll say, you know, I, I would like clean
• 44:39
  floors. So you get down to like your
• 44:42
  core desire. Like what do I actually want?
• 44:45
  So when Trent is traveling a lot, instead of being like, I
• 44:50
  can't handle your travel anymore and you're gone all the time and
• 44:53
  blah, blah, blah, I would say like, I miss you.
• 44:58
  I would like more time with you. So and then he sees that as as a
• 45:02
  need and he he steps up to that plate and.
• 45:09
  And you? Don't.
• 45:10
  You don't feel demeaned with this approach because when
• 45:13
  nagging what it sounds like to a man is you're bad at X so fix at
• 45:19
  so fix Y. Whereas it just saying hey Y is
• 45:24
  a problem could you fix that that?
• 45:28
  Depersonalizes it a little bit, takes off, takes off the edge
• 45:31
  potentially. Him to fix it really like I, I
• 45:34
  just the other day, you know, and it doesn't necessarily even
• 45:37
  get solved the way that you want it, you know, and so, but I, I
• 45:40
  told him the other day like I would like a clean house.
• 45:43
  I don't think I can keep homeschooling without a clean
• 45:45
  house. It was just, you know, he
• 45:46
  traveled a lot and I just can't I can't do both and my head is
• 45:50
  just messy over it. It sends you crazy when it's
• 45:53
  that so in you know, he's like, then you need to hire a cleaning
• 45:58
  lady. Like we will absolutely budget.
• 46:01
  So it might not be the way that you wanted it, but it gets taken
• 46:05
  care of. You know you want.
• 46:06
  Trent to dress up as a cleaning lady.
• 46:08
  Oh God, no, she doesn't. You're like, you're like Trent.
• 46:11
  I will pay you to be my cleaning lady.
• 46:13
  I. Can't even fold the lawn.
• 46:14
  Apparently I fold the laundry wrong.
• 46:16
  I'm like, there's no right way to fold underwear.
• 46:19
  I'm not nagging, OK, I said. My stuff.
• 46:21
  But that's the power of delegation.
• 46:22
  Listen, I mean. The punch I told you see,
• 46:25
  there's rude. It was like on Friends when that
• 46:27
  woman kept punching Joey. I watched Friends in high
• 46:31
  school. I don't watch it anymore, but
• 46:32
  you know. But was that a mental block for
• 46:34
  you, Laura? Like oh, I can't use a house
• 46:36
  cleaner because. Absolutely.
• 46:38
  It was like failure to me, like I my own house, but it was to
• 46:42
  the point honestly, where I felt like I couldn't homeschool my
• 46:46
  children and take care of myself.
• 46:50
  So then I think when it came down, and I know that sounds
• 46:53
  extreme, but I really felt like I was going crazy.
• 46:56
  Not over the mess, over just everything.
• 46:58
  So I'm like, OK, what can I outsource?
• 47:00
  I mean, it was. The first thing that I looked
• 47:01
  at. The Proverbs 31 women.
• 47:03
  So for Christians, Catholics listening like she's an
• 47:06
  entrepreneur, she's managing a team of people.
• 47:09
  You know, she's selling things, she's managing her kids, she's,
• 47:12
  you know, her husband's out doing his thing in the city
• 47:14
  gates or whatever the bottom line is she's doing.
• 47:17
  She has a team. And I think like everybody needs
• 47:21
  a team. And even if you're just a
• 47:23
  housewife, which there's no such thing in my book, but or just a
• 47:26
  mom and no such thing in my book.
• 47:27
  Like those are tremendously important and complex jobs, very
• 47:32
  complex jobs. You should have as best you can,
• 47:34
  a team and some people have the resources for, you know, hiring
• 47:37
  people to help great other people.
• 47:39
  Maybe it's family or I, if I could wave a magic wand, I would
• 47:43
  have every person managing their home have, you know, people
• 47:46
  helping clean, helping cook, especially if they're caring for
• 47:49
  kids. I don't know.
• 47:50
  I think it's it's all awesome. And maybe it's just temporary,
• 47:54
  you know, so we'll just, you know, just try it, you know.
• 47:57
  So getting down to that desire of, OK, what do I, what do I
• 48:00
  want ultimately? Like, I would like peace and
• 48:03
  order in her home. How can I accomplish that?
• 48:05
  And he, you know, stepped in with his lovely analytical,
• 48:08
  melancholic mind. He's like, oh, OK, here's how we
• 48:11
  can solve that. You know, instead of like,
• 48:13
  Trent, you need to clean up and the boys need to help me.
• 48:16
  And they never you know and and they do help, But so I mean as
• 48:20
  well as A8 year old can clean, you know so.
• 48:23
  Yeah. So.
• 48:24
  So anyway, so he solves it differently, but it works much
• 48:28
  better than nagging. In short, love that.
• 48:32
  Well I guess I'm not sure. It's always hard.
• 48:34
  Like how can I give husband's advice?
• 48:35
  I've been at this for 10 years. We've had our our ups and downs.
• 48:39
  I think one big thing, and it depends on the term, but I think
• 48:42
  a lot of guys do try to solve problems instead of even just
• 48:46
  listening like immediately I'm going to go do something when a
• 48:49
  lot of times your wife just needs to know you can listen and
• 48:53
  be empathetic. Like I think Laura would tell me
• 48:55
  like this check out lady was really rude to me about the
• 48:58
  children. And then like I left and went to
• 49:00
  the store and tried to find her to yell at her.
• 49:02
  And I'm glad I didn't find her because I would have been a
• 49:04
  crazy person who would have ended up on Twitter or
• 49:06
  something. It's.
• 49:06
  A good intention, like he's a protector, but I'm like, that's
• 49:09
  an overreaction. That's not what I asked him to
• 49:11
  do. I just wanted to talk to you
• 49:13
  about it. So I think that's helpful.
• 49:15
  And then for just for men, like I, I've seen in my own life that
• 49:20
  when I lack balance in my life, I'm not really able to care for
• 49:23
  my wife and children. I don't have equilibrium.
• 49:26
  But when I have that spiritually, physically,
• 49:29
  socially, occupationally, that as a man, you just have to
• 49:36
  always be on guard about whether you're in a state of
• 49:38
  disequilibrium. And it's very subtle.
• 49:40
  Like are you just spending too much time with with video games
• 49:44
  or looking at things on the Internet?
• 49:46
  Maybe you shouldn't be looking at or hanging out with certain
• 49:49
  friends that are not the best influence and so they get you
• 49:52
  into bad habits or at work. Are you taking on too much or
• 49:56
  are you cutting corners so much you're actually nervous about
• 49:59
  your job? I find that I can be the best.
• 50:02
  I am in the best place to be a husband and father when I have
• 50:05
  maintained equilibrium, especially spiritual equilibrium
• 50:08
  being the most important, but also with, with work with
• 50:11
  physically. Like I started working out a
• 50:14
  year ago and that's really changed my temperament and
• 50:16
  ability to relate. So I think men, it's very
• 50:19
  important for them to be able to seek that and and to some extent
• 50:22
  I'm sure that's similar for women.
• 50:24
  Self-care. Yeah, like funny you call it
• 50:26
  self-care, I guess I call it equilibrium the same like.
• 50:30
  It's both. Absolutely.
• 50:32
  Well, especially when you're mothering children and teaching
• 50:34
  them in addition, which you're doing, Laura.
• 50:36
  And I mean, that's an occupation right there.
• 50:38
  And yeah, we all need to. There's a lot of, there's a lot.
• 50:41
  That's a whole other topic that's also very important.
• 50:44
  Put on, put on your mask first. Like on the airplane, they're
• 50:47
  always like, you know, put on if you're travelling with children,
• 50:50
  put your mask on 1st. Because if if you pass out from
• 50:52
  lack of oxygen while you're fiddling with your kids mask you
• 50:55
  you can't help them or or anybody put on your mask 1st and
• 50:59
  then help them. Yeah, totally.
• 51:01
  OK, the fun, the fun and the last questions.
• 51:03
  This is so fun. OK, so favorite date night?
• 51:06
  Favorite date night? That we have done or that we do.
• 51:10
  OK, OK, that we do. Either 10 I I think honestly our
• 51:14
  favorite day night is to is to go out and eat or go out to a
• 51:17
  fun place and we just like to people watch.
• 51:20
  Yeah, we make fun of people. Because we're just our inner our
• 51:25
  inner 13 year olds and ever no but like.
• 51:27
  Don't we? Do gentle fun so you so it's not
• 51:33
  going on my podcast. This is a little bit hurt.
• 51:37
  It's like a little double date. Joe's not here, but yeah, I do
• 51:44
  have a husband. Like we went to like, we went to
• 51:46
  Vegas once, like we got our kids were watched.
• 51:49
  We never like had the chance to be at like, we're out of state
• 51:52
  and we're in a hotel room without our children and at the
• 51:55
  the resort we're like, oh wow, no one's here.
• 51:57
  And just our favorite thing is like we would go, we gambled
• 52:00
  enough. Once we won $13, we went out to
• 52:03
  Wendy's. Got Wendy's.
• 52:04
  Got Wendy's we're like you're not getting any more of our
• 52:06
  money. Caesar's we quit while we're
• 52:08
  ahead and then just walk around and just holding hands and
• 52:11
  knowing that like we have each other and and the and the only
• 52:15
  people that we would people watch and judge are those who
• 52:17
  brought it upon themselves by having too many of the, the big
• 52:20
  souvenir drinks, which I think is which I think.
• 52:22
  So yeah, my favorite date night has probably been Trent took me
• 52:26
  to a bookstore and it says pick three books that you would like
• 52:29
  to read but haven't had time to or haven't yet.
• 52:31
  And I thought that was really fun.
• 52:33
  What would you like to read? It's especially great in the
• 52:36
  dating discernment phase, when you want to find out what makes
• 52:38
  a person tick. Like, yeah, go to a bookstore
• 52:41
  with a coffee shop. What three books would you buy
• 52:43
  now if you could? And then you sit down with them
• 52:46
  and say, why did you want to get those books?
• 52:48
  And it's a great window into what the person values and cares
• 52:51
  about. So is that three books?
• 52:53
  If you had the time to read, you would.
• 52:56
  Yeah, are on your list basically.
• 52:58
  Are on your list that you haven't read yet?
• 52:59
  I love that. OK, love languages.
• 53:04
  Well. Top 2.
• 53:07
  I am definitely worth of affirmation and Trent is not so.
• 53:12
  Laura's like I am and Trent is not.
• 53:17
  I'm like, you look great tonight.
• 53:18
  He's like thanks. And I'm like I'm talking to
• 53:20
  myself. Just kidding.
• 53:23
  But yeah, I say neither of us are physical touch.
• 53:26
  We're not very PDA ish. We don't, you know, that's not
• 53:29
  do you think you're a physical touch?
• 53:31
  But you have three kids, so you figured it out.
• 53:33
  Only when people are trying to choke the life out of me.
• 53:35
  Primarily. And jiu jitsu but no I and
• 53:40
  honestly people that are like overly PDA ish like I remember
• 53:43
  just in college, you know in high school people that were
• 53:45
  like that then they always had like the absolute worst.
• 53:48
  Break all right guys, listen, that's one of my top two we're
• 53:51
  talking about your favorite love languages so.
• 53:54
  Your yeah, yeah. OK, so that's it's not?
• 53:57
  What's wrong with you? Got a little hurt here.
• 53:59
  So right Laura's. Laura's was words of
• 54:01
  affirmation, which is, she says, not Trent's.
• 54:04
  Do you have a secondary, Laura? Probably quality time.
• 54:07
  Yeah, I like quality time with Trent well.
• 54:09
  There's also a language you give and receive so.
• 54:12
  Like you receive. Words of affirmation, do you you
• 54:14
  also give them? I give them to you, OK?
• 54:16
  OK, you're. Great.
• 54:20
  Is it all touch? He didn't like that.
• 54:23
  Trent, what about you? What are your top 2?
• 54:26
  Probably to give I think would be Acts of service.
• 54:29
  Oh, for sure. Oh my goodness.
• 54:31
  Because I'll be like, I cleaned up the entire house today, like,
• 54:34
  but you didn't say I looked nice.
• 54:36
  So none of it matters. So I think, I think, and that's
• 54:40
  why I'm with a lot of people, even just not Laura, like
• 54:42
  someone I care about, like I'll do things for them to try to
• 54:45
  help them with something. So I would say for me, it's acts
• 54:47
  of service to receive. I, I, I don't know, maybe it's
• 54:53
  quality time. Gifts.
• 54:55
  Do you like gifts? Well, I I do love free stuff.
• 55:01
  But from Trent. Yeah, I, I, I think so, but I
• 55:07
  don't know, I think maybe just that I, when you invest like in
• 55:10
  set aside time for me or other people set aside time to spend
• 55:13
  with me, I, I think maybe receiving quality time, so.
• 55:16
  Love it. And then last question, not the
• 55:19
  most important but still fun. What did you do for your
• 55:22
  honeymoon? OK.
• 55:28
  Oh, not the whole time. We're not looking for a play by
• 55:30
  play, we're looking for where did you go?
• 55:31
  We didn't. We didn't.
• 55:33
  We didn't fight when you got too sick to fight.
• 55:35
  You didn't fight that's. Good after you were too sick to
• 55:38
  be able to do anything. Laura got sick.
• 55:41
  Yeah, we, we went through Europe.
• 55:43
  I said, you know, if we have kids, we'll probably never be
• 55:45
  able to do this again. So.
• 55:46
  Not true. By the way, you can travel with
• 55:48
  kids. Very passionate.
• 55:51
  I'm very passionate about. That didn't even go to target.
• 55:53
  I don't know how we would go to Europe.
• 55:56
  You don't have to. You don't have to, but it's
• 55:59
  possible if you want to. You shouldn't feel like you
• 56:01
  should, but it is possible for those.
• 56:05
  But anyways, you were in Europe and you're trapped.
• 56:07
  To like Athens, Athens, Rome, Paris, Munich, Zurich, we went
• 56:12
  all, oh, it was we just got rail passes and went around.
• 56:16
  But we hadn't, you know, this is we didn't obviously we didn't
• 56:18
  live together before marriage. We didn't even live in the same
• 56:20
  city. So then we got to.
• 56:22
  Really know you really took it to the to the extreme there.
• 56:26
  You're like, we are going to get this right.
• 56:28
  We're not even. We're never going to see each
• 56:29
  other. I thought it would be like some
• 56:34
  leisurely, like, get to know each other in the biblical
• 56:37
  sense. And he's like, here's what I
• 56:40
  planned. And it was a binder full of his
• 56:42
  itinerary. And I'm like, this is a lot
• 56:45
  different than I thought, but it was so beautiful.
• 56:48
  Whatever you liked that we only waited 5 minutes at the Eiffel
• 56:50
  Tower when the line was about two hours long.
• 56:52
  True. No, he did such a good job.
• 56:54
  Trent's a planner, he's responsible, and he just planned
• 56:57
  the entire itinerary. He knew what trains to take.
• 57:00
  He got tickets to everything beforehand.
• 57:02
  I mean, it was incredible. But then I think one of our one
• 57:05
  of our fights was I normally ate lunch at like 3:00 PM and
• 57:09
  Laura's more of a 10:30 AM person for lunch.
• 57:12
  Yeah, and that didn't go over well and.
• 57:14
  When we you do not want to starve your new wife on your
• 57:17
  honeymoon. That was definitely bad idea.
• 57:20
  Glad you figured that one out because that's a recipe for
• 57:23
  disaster. What a fun honeymoon.
• 57:25
  I love that that was. A blast to eat.
• 57:28
  Laura Laura's like it was a blast.
• 57:30
  Would have preferred the beach but next time are you guys going
• 57:34
  to do? Are you one of those couples
• 57:36
  that tries to do a getaway or have you done a getaway yet?
• 57:38
  Kids, kids makes that super hard.
• 57:41
  Yeah. And we don't live by family,
• 57:42
  which is really difficult. So yeah.
• 57:44
  So we we try my parents, when they're in good health, they're
• 57:47
  able to watch our kids for like maybe 24 hours.
• 57:49
  OK, that's a getaway. That's.
• 57:51
  Rare. So yeah, it is.
• 57:52
  So yeah, it's definitely important.
• 57:54
  It's a good, you know, revitalization.
• 57:55
  So yeah, but no, it's been a while.
• 57:59
  So to be honest, which is fine. I did.
• 58:01
  When I was texting about this thing, I was like, Trent, are
• 58:04
  you guys going to do a getaway in California?
• 58:05
  Because then we could be live in studio.
• 58:08
  Oh, that would be so nice. That'd be.
• 58:11
  Maybe in a few years we'll do this again.
• 58:14
  Children are wonderful and energetic, just like Laura so.
• 58:20
  It's a lot. Well, you guys are awesome.
• 58:22
  I thanks for giving all this wonderful advice.
• 58:26
  Everybody listening who could now learn whatever we're going
• 58:30
  to learn. I mean singles married.
• 58:32
  I I tell I was telling my hostage I'm my mom, but we're
• 58:35
  four years in my husband and I and I was like, I just don't I'm
• 58:38
  just not qualified to give marriage advice.
• 58:40
  Oh gosh, I'm going to try trying.
• 58:41
  To figure it out, we're like, I think you.
• 58:43
  Had some good advice though. You did good.
• 58:45
  You did well. Takes a lifetime.
• 58:46
  Yeah, my advice would be to not take my advice.
• 58:49
  Oh, another one I I thought of earlier.
• 58:52
  That whole, that whole like, oh. Wait, Trent has more advice.
• 58:56
  Go to bed. Don't go to bed angry.
• 58:58
  It's like, oh, you have to talk it all out and don't go to bed
• 59:00
  angry unless I just go to bed and the next day.
• 59:03
  You're like agree with that completely.
• 59:05
  Yeah, I'm good. Get your sleep.
• 59:06
  Yeah, I'm a crazy person at night, so it's true.
• 59:10
  Glad. It's true.
• 59:11
  All right, well, go, go on your go for dinner.
• 59:13
  What's next? Thank you, Lila.
• 59:15
  Yeah, it's just fine. Thanks guys.