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Differently Wired | Schizophrenia in Community With Chris Summerville · Neighbourly: Real Stories of Care and Community

0:03
What does loving your neighbor actually look like? This is
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journey with care, where curious Canadians get inspired to love
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others well through real life stories and honest conversations.
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Welcome to another episode of Journey with Care. We're coming to the end of our
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series, differently wired in community, and today we have a
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special guest. He's going to be talking about schizophrenia. But before we
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get into that, let me remind you that we have our journey with prayer
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podcast, which is on a different feed. You can find it right now on our
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website, or you can find it on your favorite podcast player and listen to that.
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Take these conversations from the head to the heart into your daily walk
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and routine. Also, I wanted to acknowledge that we had a listener
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message. This was on our differently wired bipolar
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in community with Jaiden episode. Our listener goes to say, this was
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so educational. Would it be possible to get an episode on
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borderline personality disorder? I recently got diagnosed
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and I am trying to understand it. First of all, I want to say thank
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you so much for reaching out and we hear you. And getting
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a diagnosis for BPD can be a lot to take in.
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It's fantastic that you're looking to learn more about it and get information.
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While we've already planned out the remaining episodes in the series, in fact, this is
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our last one in this specific series. We'll definitely
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keep BPD in mind for future projects. We hope this series has
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encouraged the church and community around you to be support, no matter
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how how differently wired you are. I personally actually
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have experience supporting someone with BPD and the
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best thing you could do, my quick advice is just to keep a large circle
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of supports around you. And hopefully we've helped equip the church
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to learn to do that a little bit better. So make sure you gather people
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around you and have that large support system. And thanks
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again for sending a message. And if anybody else has comments,
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if you have questions, suggestions, we love to hear from
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you. Just head over to our website, journeywithcare. Ca
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podcast. You can click on the episode posts or send us a
2:10
message or voicemail. You can do it all from there. And we would love to
2:14
hear from you and respond to whatever you have to say.
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All right, there we go, Wendy. So we're back in this final differently
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wired episode. You want to give our listeners a little bit of a
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catch up to where we are and then introduce our guest today?
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Yeah, no, I'd love to. Man, I wish we could keep going.
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And to the person that wrote in about BPD,
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hey, we hear you. We journey with people who have this
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diagnosis, so know that we will be praying for you,
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actually, and do circle yourself around
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with people and receive that support, because you are not
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alone. And hopefully in future episodes we can continue
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to support you. But this series, oh my goodness, we are coming
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to an end. We've been going through a lot of topics, so I encourage
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all our listeners to listen through the series. There have been so
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many rich conversations. We've been talking about autism and bipolar
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ADHD. We've had certified neuroscience coaches
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and a lot of people with lived experience differently
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wired in community. And so I just want to thank each of our guests for
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coming. And I'm so excited to introduce our current guests, who I
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have met a year and a half ago at a retreat center. And
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I'm excited to introduce Chris Somerville to our podcast
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as we talk about schizophrenia. Chris, welcome to the
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podcast. Well, thank you. And what a wonderful
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opportunity for me to be able to share to your
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listeners one of the most confusing,
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taboo mental illnesses in the
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darkness. Yes. I am so glad that we can
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have this conversation together. But Chris, as an
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introduction man, you have studied a lot.
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You have a doctorate in theology, you're a certified psychosocial
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rehabilitation recovery practitioner, and you also
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come to us as CEO of the Schizophrenia Society of Canada. So
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you know a lot about this topic. Can you tell us a little bit
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more about schizophrenia? Let's demystify that. First and
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foremost, when we talk about schizophrenia, what are we even
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talking about? Let's start with that. Well, I
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wished I could have asked that question when I was around 14
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years old, living in Birmingham, Alabama, hence the accent.
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My brother Terry developed cannabis induced schizophrenia in
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Vietnam, and when he came home around
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1970, there was no one to turn
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to to ask the kind of questions that I get asked today,
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and I'm most pleased to answer. And this session
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today, you know, I really want it for those individuals
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who live with personal experience, a lived experience of schizophrenia and
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their caregivers and their family members and hope really can answer a lot of
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questions that I wish I had had answers to
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back end of days in the old south. So anyway, when
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we talk about schizophrenia, we're actually
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talking about one of the psychotic illnesses.
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The main feature of schizophrenia is
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psychosis. Psychosis is when you cannot
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determine what is real and is not real, your
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brain is not functioning in the way and responding
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to the cues of what reality is. And
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so the two features psychoses
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is hallucinations. Hallucinations is any of your
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five senses when they're not responding as they should,
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so you maybe hear voices that sound like real voices
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as if they're coming inside your head or outside of the head. You may feel
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tactile sensations on your skin, odors
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through your nose, seeing things that aren't there. The most
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common hallucination is hearing voices
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that are there, because those voices can be tormenting
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and paranoid type of voices.
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The second symptom of
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psychopsis is delusions, and that's fixed thoughts that have
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no basis in reality. Like the RCMP has both
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my house or I'm Kennedy Prime
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Minister Trudeau and I talked with him frequently, and he
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talks to me, so that can be very disturbing.
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And again, sometimes those delusions can be very
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paranoid as well. So when we
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go from psychosis, how do we get from psychosis to
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schizophrenia? A doctor has to rule out about 16
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illnesses that also have psychosis as their feature.
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For example, Parkinson's disease, brain tumor, thyroid
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problems, heart medication, accidents to your
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brain canal galaxy. Those are
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some. And so the final bipolar disorder with
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psychosis or postpartum psychosis are some forms of
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depression. So when all that is ruled out, then we're left
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with schizoaffective disorder or schizophrenia.
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Schizoaffective is a combination of strong depression and
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psychosis. Schizophrenia is primary
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psychosis. Oh, that's very helpful. Thank you, Chris,
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for explaining that, because I think that word
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schizophrenia can be often flippantly used. Oh, that's so
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schizophrenic of me. Or just any
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delusions be considered schizophrenia. And let's face
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it, I'm not a medical doctor. I'm not a psychiatrist. There's
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so many other factors that people are looking at. So it's
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helpful for you to explain how that is being diagnosed
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and what that looks like historically. How has the
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church viewed schizophrenia? And has it often
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been misdiagnosed, so to speak, as something
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demonic or other than what
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the psychology would say it is? And is there some
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correlation there? How have you navigated this within
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your church experience and people's understanding within the church?
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Well, hold on to that question. There's one transitional
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piece I need to say, and that is you mentioned about schizophrenia
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and some issues. I never say
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schizophrenic, I don't say cancerous
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patient. And you're not wrong by saying that. But
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then you mentioned earlier, we introduced the
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program talking about multiple
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personalities, which are technically known as
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dissociation disorder. And many people think
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that schizophrenia is a split personality or
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dissociation disorder. It is not. Those are totally
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different. The word schizophrenia is from
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sugar words, which means split mind, and
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hence, people think split personality. In the
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rim area of the Pacific Ocean, countries like
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Japan and others have done away with their
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equivalent word of schizophrenia, which is also
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translated in their language as split personality.
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So it's a disintegration personality
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disorder because it involves all aspects
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of your personality. So words are
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very important and they're very powerful. And in terms I speak
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people, a person living with schizophrenia, a family
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member who has a son living with schizophrenia, I have
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personal, have experience with schizophrenia. Someone
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might say, the church is not faired
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any better than society, that
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we are human beings. In the church, we're fallible.
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We're all under what the scripture calls the fall. We
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all have illnesses, we all get sick, we all have mental health problems at
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some time. And then there are those who have mental illnesses.
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But because of medievalism
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and back, you know, even before evil times in
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the middle ages, there was the notion they're
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prevalent. And you read it in the Bible. I mean, Jesus was even
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as in the scripture. I wish I remember this specific
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scripture. His brothers and sisters thought he was
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crazy as a living, so to speak. That's language we sometimes
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use today. It's because of
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talked with God, God talked with him and so forth. And
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I think Mary had a full understanding who Jesus was. His brothers
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and sisters probably did not have a full understanding in terms of
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maturation. And then the apostle Paul before
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the kingdom, and he said, you nearly made me mad with all of your
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cough. So there is reference then in each
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of those, but a lot of it is saying
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through the eyes of the demonic. So that's carried
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through. And so a lot of evangelical christians,
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conservative christians, still hold on to
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that. Mental illnesses are covenants
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of possession of Satan. Now, we have to be
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very careful with that. You need your theologians and your Bible
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scholars and pastors, and some of them do, a very lot of them do
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a very good job. I still believe, because I believe the Bible,
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and I take the Bible as normal reading
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normally, what it's saying. And so Jesus did cast out
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demons, and those demons can manifest themselves with
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illnesses. But I'm not a demonologist, so I,
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I can't say, well, okay, this stems from demonicness,
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stems from the biochemistry, but that's not what we're
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talking about. We're not talking about demonism today.
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Most mental illnesses are a manifestation
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of a person with a brain goal.
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Wrong. For some reason, the brain has
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more nerve cells than there
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are trees on the planet of this earth.
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Each nerve cell has a synapses. It has a gap between
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each nerve cell, and there are more synapses
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and are leaves on the trees and the whole world.
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And then for the communication to happen, for you to hear me talking
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today, for you to feel what you're feeling, to hear what you're
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hearing, there has to be neurotransmitters that
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creator created for the brain to operate
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operationally. And then there's a whole slew of them,
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many, many hundreds. And so if there's too
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much or too little, it can have an effect on
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that part of the brain. So sense of
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radiation is a mental illness that creates a lot of disorder in your
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life. That's why the social psychiatrist in the
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biopsychiatrist called the DSM five
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statistical manual, and it'll list a lot of symptoms
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of all the middle illness. And so
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they have to look at the cluster of symptoms and then determine what
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is the origin of that. But they don't use the word middle
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illness in that text. They use the phrase
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rather mental disorder. So the difference between a mental health problem
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or mental health challenges is that you're having a bad day of
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your emotions before sex, may be struggling.
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You might have some sort of an identity crisis. Who am I? And what's my
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life all about? You may have generalized anxiety
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and generalize depression.
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That's mental health. So we need resiliency. And a lot of people
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experienced mental health problems during this pandemic.
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A mental illness or a mental disorder in
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Swan and is so pervasive, it creates a
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disorder in your life. It interferes with your learning,
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your loving, and it can create
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chaos in your life. It can bring tension between
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relationships, because people having very little knowledge
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about these symptoms and what they can do to
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assist this leaves them in consternation and
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creates conflict and disorder and all. Sometimes the law has
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to be involved because the person needs some
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help to take them to the emergency room. If they won't go on their
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own or they come under the Mental Health act,
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police are the ones who escort them to a
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hospital. Well, Chris, there is a wealth of information there
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you've just shared. I just really appreciate the way you were able to explain such
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complex things and bring it down to in language that I can
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understand. So, thank you. And I can imagine a person
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living with schizophrenia would find
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some frustration in a neurotypical world
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where they're experiencing disorder in a
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society that's expecting different results or
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different behavior. And I think sometimes we can look at the behavior
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and not necessarily understand at a neurological
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level. So I appreciate you explaining that. So when you
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say disorder, it's literally
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misfirings of the brain with the neurons and the synapses.
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Is that what we're talking about? Right. Things are not working as they should,
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just like a car engine. If it gets too much gas, it floods out.
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If it doesn't have enough gas, it stops running or putters around.
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The question I get a lot, and the thing is about, well, why don't people
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excel? The house? Schizophrenia. I've seen a picture of
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your family one day. If any of your children
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began to experience any of these symptoms, they would be
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horrified. They would be scared to death. I'm talking
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about as it progresses, because they don't want to be thought of
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a nutcase, they don't want to be thought as crazy,
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they don't want to be thought as a nut bar. They don't want to be
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thought of. Eventually, the greyhound bus killer that killed
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Tim McLean on the bus, you had schizophrenia, and I worked here with him for
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ten years. No one wants to wake
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up. I'm homeless psychiatrist, and
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I don't understand all this language, and they're
16:34
giving me this medicine that creates a lot of side effects without
16:37
drowsiness. I feel zombied out. And
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so there's a real hesitancy for we as human
16:44
beings. Oh, I'm struggling with depression,
16:48
oh, that anxiety, because they reach social media and what have you,
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and people who are threatening suicide and an individual who
16:55
wanted dying and whatever. And so it had to be a really
16:59
unusual family in which a child in the family
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felt comfortable enough to say, you know, mom, dad, I'm
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hearing these voices. Yeah, I have a question about that,
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Chris. How would I, and I appreciate the way you
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frame that. How would I, as a
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parenthood, or I as a church member,
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be a safe person to walk with somebody
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that's experiencing some of these symptoms? And
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how have you helped people
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destigmatize that so that they can get the support and the level of the
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support that they're needing, because there is hope. Sometimes it's the
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awareness of the diagnosis itself that actually could be a relief
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in finding a pathway forward, or
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some rehabilitation, some normalcy of being able to live with it.
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Can you help me understand how can I be that safe person or
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become a safe congregation for this diagnosis?
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Yes, these things begin very slowly,
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unless you're using something like cannabis and help you get bad
18:04
truck, which was oftentimes psychosis, but it comes on
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slowly in the very first phase, not that you have to remember the word is
18:12
the prodroval phase. And that's when you sort
18:16
of looking back, it's when you look back, then you say, oh, well, that's what
18:19
that was. And that happens to a lot of parents when they get education.
18:23
They say, oh, that's how it did began with Lori. And now
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I see. So, for example, their sleep pattern
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changes, their attention span
18:34
changes. They stay in their room more,
18:37
that gradually become more reclusive to be
18:41
around large crowds, creates anxiety.
18:44
Fluorescent lights can bother them a great deal. He's probably want
18:48
to change these lights, and then they may
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elevate them to a time. So there's that sensitivity
18:56
developing to external stimuli, and then they'll come
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to the bigger the point of, I hear voices,
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you know, there's voices talking to the moment. Now, depending
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on what the person was doing 24 hours earlier, you know, the mother said,
19:11
well, maybe ask for much alcohol to drink or, oh, it'll
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go away, and I'll. Well, the good question would be, well,
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what are they saying? And there are many people around who are only
19:22
your voices, so try to normalize it as much, you know, especially what are
19:26
the voices saying? Some of the questions are these, how
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many voices do you recognize in the voices?
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So sometimes the voices mimic. Someone may acknowledge,
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especially if they've been abused. People who have experienced
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abuse and trauma, sexual abuse and PTSD,
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will have manifestation on psychosis, so that
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trauma has to be dealt with. There are no medications for
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trauma, so that's where the psychotherapies come in. And then if
19:57
they have those delusions,
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I know my iPhone is bugged, and. And
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they start getting rid of something. So you just need to inquire
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what's motivating that, what is the fear, and try to remain
20:13
as complex and don't create a diagnosis, don't give a
20:16
diagnosis to them. And what you need to do
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is you go to your family doctor, because
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they're the ones who are to arrange you to get a
20:26
psychiatrist. And unfortunately, you have to wait months.
20:30
Now, if it got worse, the person is saying, I know they're
20:34
trying to kill me, and I'm going to have to do something about
20:38
them. So if they talk words
20:41
of homicide or suicide, you need to take
20:45
them to the emergency room as soon as
20:48
possible. Not that they're going to do it immediately, but it's beginning
20:52
to bring disorder into their life and they actually believe
20:56
it. That's the thing about psychosis, is
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that you have these thoughts and thinking that are
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not true in reality. Then a doctor would do the
21:07
evaluation and put them on a beginning
21:10
medication to hope that they bring down
21:14
those symptoms. But I would try not to use
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language that's offensive to them. You
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might be right. But you don't want to scare them away from getting
21:26
help and encourage them. That hope is
21:29
thoughtful. So it takes about once a person develops the
21:33
prodromal systems and they totally crash
21:37
the water. Wherever the diagnosis is going to go, that's about
21:41
three to four years. And the truth
21:44
of the matter, that there's people there is
21:48
cold. So that's the heart of the schizophrenia
21:52
recovery movement. When people ask me, Chris, what do you do? I work in the
21:55
schizophrenia recovery movement because I want that recovery tied to
21:59
schizophrenia. Well, tell me more. Even though it is hard as
22:03
hell as an illness, you'll be scared to death. Most people don't understand
22:07
it. And you do lose a lot of your friends, you do
22:11
lose a lot of family member relationships, like, I don't want you to
22:14
bring your son. Let's get stranger about birthday parties.
22:19
They're scared. You tend not to date much or not at
22:22
all. Most people who continue to live only schizophrenia
22:26
don't marry, although that is changing today with the better medications,
22:30
they generally don't finish education. But you know what?
22:34
If you finish high school and have some education before
22:38
you develop schizophrenia, you do better. You do better.
22:42
And so there are. We can talk about that later. There are various
22:45
means of what promotes self recovery. All I can
22:49
say for an absolute fact that people with
22:52
schizophrenia are some of the most lonely people in the world. They're very
22:56
isolated. The church can come in to fill that gap. So
23:00
using something like the sanctuary material that's
23:03
produced in Canada, that you've had them on your program to
23:07
befriend them, understand symptoms, who are
23:10
indifferent, the ways that you adjust your communication,
23:14
maybe you talk too fast and you slow down so they can swap information.
23:19
And don't just talk about the schizophrenia, talk about their
23:22
hopes and their dreams and what they would like
23:26
life to be for them to inspire hope
23:30
and then plan some get togethers. Now, that's
23:34
rather intensive relationship already there, but there are people who are
23:37
especially gifted in the church. We feel that you can do it
23:41
back. There's recovery of celebration, celebrate
23:44
recovery. That's what. Celebrate recovery. Well, maybe you could choose some
23:48
time to line that. And it's known by the church
23:52
folks that it's for people who have mental health and
23:55
mental illnesses and you praying for each other
23:59
and you share material and you share life experiences.
24:02
A big movement in North America and around the world is peer support
24:06
movement. Now, peer support's been way around. When my wife had breast
24:10
cancer, she had a peer support worker. And
24:13
here, where I get my prosthetic hook repaired, I was
24:17
lost, man. Alligator. I'm in Louisiana, and I wasn't able to
24:21
save the hand. Well, that's not a true
24:24
story to begin with. If you believe you probably are suffering
24:28
from collisions, it's not a truth. It makes for a good story,
24:32
though. You do have a prosthetic hand. So were you born
24:36
that way? No, I was born that way. So I'm the prosthetic.
24:40
It's part of my recovery, learning how to use it. I've mastered it.
24:44
And I used to go in as a peer support worker when I was
24:47
a teenager and teach people who were recent amputees or who had born
24:51
with the absence of a right hand, helping them to see how functional the
24:55
prosthetic hook in the hand could be. So peer support worker
24:59
is the one who spend where you are. They are on the road of
25:02
recovery. And the goal is that the person
25:06
who's the patient now will be motivating to say,
25:09
well, how are you able to do that? How are you doing what you're doing
25:13
now? The issues around medication and so forth.
25:17
So the church could even offer that, especially in a christian
25:21
context. I think it needs to be more than once a year, but just
25:24
periodically, someone can give a testimony about
25:28
phosphorous through their bicolor, through their schizophrenia.
25:31
You have to be careful with the media. Working with the media. It's not trying
25:35
to sensationalize the story. Oh, tell us all about those
25:38
hallucinations and those goodies. I want to hear they can make reference
25:42
to it, but it's really talking about the disorder in their
25:46
life and then how they.
25:49
So there are community mental health workers, there's psychiatrists,
25:53
general physicians, psychologists, saw
25:56
therapy, unresolved trauma issues, and
26:00
then be in a friend. Just be in a friend, you know, takes up
26:03
to lunch some time. You don't have to spend all your time with the
26:06
individual. Also a limited income, very
26:10
limited income. But I know a University of
26:13
Toronto engineer professor who has
26:16
schizophrenia. And so people with schizophrenia are
26:20
amongst us and in. They're not all crazy
26:23
acting. It's stabilized. The symptoms
26:27
are stabilized. They found ways for the brain to
26:30
worse for them. And I think it's more common than people often
26:34
realize. We might have a certain Persona that we think
26:38
of, maybe through media or Hollywood,
26:41
of what we think of when we talk about schizophrenia. But
26:45
you've shared a lot here, and I really appreciate the way you have given
26:49
us so many not understanding, but also helpful tools
26:53
on how to walk alongside for those who do not experience
26:56
schizophrenic episodes or symptoms,
26:59
but how to walk alongside and be a place of safety,
27:03
but also those experiencing mental illnesses and those living
27:07
with schizophrenia. How they can find support
27:11
such wealth of information. And I think one of the things that I see in
27:14
common is that we need to become aware, we need to
27:18
destigmatize. There's ways to do that. I know from my personal
27:21
experience. I've on several occasions, I have helped community
27:25
members and in crisis and
27:29
taken them to an ER that is specifically
27:32
designed for mental health and mental illnesses when
27:36
they were going through some significant psychosis.
27:40
And in those moments, it just blew me away.
27:44
And I would say just as an encouragement to our listeners to
27:48
we don't have to be the psychiatrist, we need to be with. We
27:51
need to sit with and be with people
27:55
going through hardship, and they're not people to be feared,
27:59
they're people to be with and to learn. And not
28:03
as me, the rescuer, but to say, how can I support
28:06
you asking the doctors and people in
28:10
knowledge, how can we be better supported? And you made reference
28:14
to sanctuary, mental health, and we've often made reference to
28:18
them and we'll put the link in again in our show notes. But there is
28:22
a good resource there for churches, small groups
28:25
to learn together how to be places of safety, how
28:29
to understand mental illnesses, mental health.
28:33
And what does that look like to be places of
28:36
inclusivity for people going through a lot of
28:39
differences. I just want to encourage people to
28:43
check out that resource. Well, and there's another excellent one
28:46
for Canadians. It's a YouTube channel. It's
28:50
entitled living well with schizophrenia. And the
28:54
young lady's name is Lauren, L a V r I
28:57
N. She's out in BC, she's a social worker
29:01
and she's in her thirties. I think she has
29:04
beautiful YouTube videos and
29:08
a couple of hundreds in terms of fantastic topics
29:12
for people to learn about this. Okay,
29:16
we'll put that in the show notes as well. Well, Chris, there's so many
29:20
things that we could talk about yet, and we've learned so much
29:23
already, but it is the end of our episode. Is there any
29:27
concluding thoughts that you would like to end our episode with?
29:31
So I wouldn't wish that pastors would in their pastoral prayer,
29:34
but those who still do that would periodically begin, say,
29:38
and Lord, we don't forget today those who may be among
29:42
us and outside of us who are struggling with middle
29:45
anguish, light and depression or schizophrenia. And we ask
29:49
for the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ from the Holy Spirit to minister to
29:52
him. That's all he got aside. We do it with the physical,
29:56
every pastoral prayer. But anyway, here's one
30:00
of my sayings. If you're going to have schizophrenia, this is the best day to
30:03
have it. How can I say that? Because we know more than ever
30:07
before and what helps. And then my
30:11
parting words can be, well, y'all go in peace, not to
30:14
pieces. I love that.
30:18
Thank you so much, Chris, for joining us on the podcast today,
30:22
listeners. Again, you could check the show notes for all those links for the sanctuary
30:26
mental health course and the resources that Chris recommended. You can
30:29
also go to our website, Journeywithcare ca
30:33
podcast to find out more. You can comment and
30:36
share it. Reach me through in the Schizophrenia Society of
30:40
Canada. I live in Steinbeck, Manitoba.
30:43
Excellent. So we will also add Chris's information if you'd like to contact him
30:47
and ask him any questions. It sounds like he's willing to help out
30:51
there as well. So thank you so much, Chris, for coming on with us today.
30:54
Thank you so listeners, for the coming weeks we are actually taking a
30:58
four week little bit of a break. It's going to be shorter
31:02
episodes. We got some stories to share with you as you enjoy
31:05
your summer. Use that time to catch up on some of these longer
31:09
episodes and enjoy the short stories at the same time. We are calling it
31:13
the summer speedos. Just a
31:17
little bit of a play on words there. So enjoy.
31:20
Enjoy these four weeks. Yeah, we'll see you back very
31:24
soon. Thank you for joining another
31:27
conversation on Journey with care, where we inspire
31:31
curious Canadians on their path of faith and living life with
31:34
purpose in community. Journey with Care is an initiative of Care
31:38
Impact, a canadian charity dedicated to connecting and equipping the
31:42
whole church to journey well in community. You can visit their website
31:46
at careimpact, CA or visit journeywithcare CA to get
31:49
more information on weekly episodes, journey with prayer, and details
31:53
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32:00
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32:04
Thank you for sharing this podcast and helping these stories reach the
32:07
community. Together we can explore explore ways to journey in a good way
32:11
and always remember to stay curious.