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Inside Weetwood Ales: Cheshire’s Brewery & Distillery · The Discussion Podcast

• 0:00
  This is the Late Late Lunch Show with Rod Maxwell. Supported by Matthew Dyer.
• 0:07
  Childbed learning in nature's playground. So it's Rod Maxwell on the Late Late
• 0:11
  Lunch Show and I am in Cheshire today.
• 0:15
  And I'm at a place called Weedwood Eels which is in the middle of the countryside.
• 0:20
  And it's a place that brews beer and distills whiskey.
• 0:25
  And I'm here with one of the brewers, Matthew Knopp. Matthew, lovely to be here.
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  It's an unbelievable place, both because of what it produces and the size of
• 0:34
  that, and also we're sitting here in this beautiful bar-restaurant type area.
• 0:39
  Tell us the background. When did it all start?
• 0:42
  Okay. So, 1992, Adrian, who was a brewer at Greenall's Brewery in Warrington.
• 0:49
  When it closed down, he decided he'd like to continue brewing.
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  He had a friend, Roger Langford, who was a pig farmer. So, them two got their heads together.
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  Roger had the space, so he owned a barn, and Adrian had all the brewing knowledge and experience.
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  So together, they started Wheatwood.
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  Now, the name Wheatwood comes from the tiny hamlet, which is probably half a
• 1:14
  mile from where we are now, with about three houses and, like I say,
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  a barn. That's where the brewery began.
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  That's where the name comes from. And when the brewery needed to increase in
• 1:24
  size, it moved to this current site in, I think, around 2011.
• 1:30
  I think so. And so on this site, you are brewing several different beers.
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  We'll get on to them in a minute.
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  Plus, you're distilling whiskeys as well. And it's a big process.
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  And we just actually spent about an hour walking through it.
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  And I have to tell you guys, the smells are unbelievable.
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  And now we're in, well, I mean, this is like a bar, restaurant type area.
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  Yeah. We, we refer to it as the tap room.
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  The tap. So we can, we can showcase all our beers directly from the brewery.
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  You know, it's a, it's a 200 yard trip to the, to the cellar.
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  We have Kat who's the taproom manager. She can liaise with us what beer she
• 2:07
  wants, what beer she wants to sell and showcase that week.
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  And it just gets absolutely rammed. It's brilliant.
• 2:14
  Well, I have to say it's an absolutely wonderful looking bar.
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  And I'm drinking the non-alcoholic lager, which is very good as well.
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  And we'll talk a little bit more about the whole process of brewing beer.
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  And I wish I had smelly vision because the smells have been brilliant.
• 2:31
  But we'll be back with Matthew here at Wheatwood Ales in a couple of minutes' time.
• 2:36
  You're listening to the Late Late Lunch Show. Back to the Garden Childcare,
• 2:40
  where little explorers grow naturally.
• 2:43
  So, Matthew, what you're brewing here are a range of different beers,
• 2:49
  ales, lagers, and I guess it all starts with core British ingredients,
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  which is malt barley and malt wheat.
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  Yeah, majority. malted barley, some malted wheat and a few specialist sort of moutes as well.
• 3:06
  And it requires a lot of energy because you're putting very hot liquid in...
• 3:12
  Different mixtures of the wheat and the barley, which ultimately is giving it
• 3:18
  very distinctive flavors of whatever you want.
• 3:21
  Exactly that, yeah. We've created recipes over the years, different amounts
• 3:25
  of different barleys, different colors, different aromas, and we just have to
• 3:30
  make sure we're consistent every time with every recipe.
• 3:34
  And so you guys are doing a bit of research here. You create different flavors
• 3:38
  and then you replicate that in a scale that means that You can produce it for
• 3:43
  bars and whatever across the country.
• 3:44
  Yeah, exactly that. We have a small sort of pilot kit. It's more like a home brewer's kit, really.
• 3:50
  But it works perfectly for us to sort of let our minds run a bit wild.
• 3:56
  If we have a beer style that we don't brew, that one of us would like to brew,
• 4:00
  we give it a try on the test kit. If it doesn't work, we go back to the drawing board, we try it again.
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  We're not wasting huge amounts of ingredients. We're not wasting huge amounts of time.
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  So it's really good fun. and then every now and then one
• 4:12
  of them recipes will stick we can then scale it
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  up to the big kit so there's a there's a
• 4:18
  a limit to the smallest batch we can brew on the big kit so we have to scale
• 4:24
  it up to that we scale it up the the malt the hops we brew it and then hopefully
• 4:29
  fingers crossed it comes out and it's very very nice so the room we've been
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  in which starts with the tank where you,
• 4:36
  I'll call it the mulch, but the mix of the malted grain and barley goes into
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  a tank and there's very hot liquid put onto that. Yes.
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  And then that is transferred to other tanks.
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  I mean, it seems to go through about three, four, five different stages before
• 4:54
  you get to what would be the alcoholic beer.
• 4:58
  Yeah. So you have, you mentioned the mulch, the mash is what we call it.
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  So that's the malted barley that the recipe is mixed with hot water in the mash tun.
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  So in the mash tun, the conversion of the starch inside the grain happens and that converts.
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  Starch into simple sugars. Like you say, that liquid is then transferred into,
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  we have an underbuck, we have a kettle where it's boiled.
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  We then pump that into a fermenting vessel.
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  So it goes through three or four different vessels before we then are adding
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  yeast and fermenting it.
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  It then, once it's fermented, will go into yet another vessel for conditioning.
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  And and then from there it's then put
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  into the different kegs so that end-to-end process
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  how long does it take for you to take the
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  raw ingredient and then to be able to put that into a barrel that go to a pub
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  quite simply a week so for let's say we brew cheshire cat on a monday wednesday
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  fermentation will be complete friday that cheshire cat brew would be moved into a conditioning tank.
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  It's conditioned all weekend, Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
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  Monday morning, that beer is ready to put into cask and go to customers.
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  And one thing that strikes me is there's a lot of heat. There's a lot of energy
• 6:20
  that the process goes through.
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  Those big steel vats, I mean, they have to put up a lot of pressure that builds
• 6:30
  with the beer being, well, what would you call it?
• 6:34
  It's not distilled, is it? of beer being brewed. Brewed, yeah, absolutely.
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  Yeah, so the process of fermentation will create new yeast.
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  Now that will itself expand inside the tank.
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  So when you're talking about pressure, we have to have breather caps on the
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  top of the tank. So a lot of CO2 is produced during fermentation.
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  So the breather caps work so that the CO2 and the yeast can escape out the top,
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  but nothing could come in and cause any infection.
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  That's how we control the pressure during fermentation. We also try to keep
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  enough headspace in the tank so that it has space to do that without causing unnecessary stress.
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  It's an incredibly complicated process. Your background actually was in chemistry, was it?
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  For a chemical works.
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  So many of you might have heard of ICI, the giant chemical works.
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  So it was Brunner Mond who took over from ICI.
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  That was where I used to work as a process operator.
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  Which for me lends itself perfectly to brewing because brewing is just a process.
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  It's this, at this time, this, at this time, consistently every day.
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  So my background lends itself perfectly to that.
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  And since I've been here for 10 years now, I've now added the theoretical understanding
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  to my... I have to say it's one of the things I'm not very good at is consistency.
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  And I would make a terrible brewer because I couldn't resist the urge to tinker
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  And that's one thing you can't do, can you really?
• 8:04
  No, not with the core range of beers that we brew, which the customers come
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  to expect to be the same every time.
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  Like I mentioned, the pilot kit is where we can tinker.
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  The main catalogue of beers, they have to be the same every time,
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  so we need to make sure we're on it consistency-wise.
• 8:23
  This is The Late Late Lunch Show with Rod Maxwell on Radio Alty.
• 8:29
  So it's Rod Maxwell, and I'm out in Cheshire. I needed the sat-nav,
• 8:34
  actually. I don't know Cheshire very well, Matthew.
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  It's gorgeous out here. It's absolutely gorgeous. Just to come back a little
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  bit, you have people who come here the sample of the beers, it's a restaurant,
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  it's a bar, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely.
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  So when we decided to create the tap brew, we wanted to just make somewhere
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  that everyone can just come for a friendly drink.
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  But we do find there's a lot of people come from quite far away to come here,
• 8:59
  which is a testament to the atmosphere that we've created, to the beers that we brew.
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  A few years ago, we started to do brewery tours with the idea of letting more
• 9:09
  people know where we're situated. because like you just said,
• 9:13
  we're not really situated.
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  We're in the middle of nowhere. So the idea behind the brewery tours was to
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  let more people know where we are.
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  And now we've added the tap room, of course, word of mouth spreads where you
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  can come and you can sit, you can have a pork pie, you can have some crisps,
• 9:27
  you can have a gin, a whiskey, a beer.
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  It's just gone from stress to strength. Now, in the last, I guess it might be
• 9:34
  10 years or a little bit more, People have become more curious and desiring
• 9:39
  more artisan foods, drinks.
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  I mean, have you guys got any theories as to why that is?
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  I mean, it fits your marketplace perfectly because big brands are not as trendy anymore.
• 9:54
  No. People are looking for something that's a bit more local, if you like.
• 9:58
  I think they're not as desirable anymore, the big brands.
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  I think people kind of look at them and think, you're not putting any effort in.
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  You can create a product en masse that hasn't really had any thought put into
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  it, Whereas you come to a local brewer like us, everything we do has thought
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  gone into it. We think about every stage of the process.
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  None of it's easy. The job's very physical.
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  So I think people just want value for the money, if I'm being honest.
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  That's the way I see things nowadays anyway.
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  Yeah, and there's a uniqueness about what you're getting.
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  Although part of your job as one of the brewers is to get the consistency every
• 10:40
  time with everyone. Oh, 100%. When you spoke about uniqueness.
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  It's us producing Cheshire's first single malt, that's unique.
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  And that alone, that takes so much work for us to do.
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  Whiskey needs to have aged for three years before we can even call it whiskey.
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  And it might not be ready at three years. We have to then test it, taste it.
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  And then maybe it needs to have a couple of years. So you're talking years of
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  investment to create a very unique product, which now we do.
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  And now people know about, everybody seems to love.
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  Yeah. And I mean, you put a lot of effort into discover and create.
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  Then it's about replication, isn't it? Absolutely.
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  Well, then we'll be back speaking with Matthew and we're going to be talking
• 11:24
  a little bit more about the whiskey.
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  But I want to come back and talk about the beers and just what you are actually
• 11:29
  brewing here and what's on offer.
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  You're listening to the Late Late Lunch Show. Back to the Garden Childcare,
• 11:36
  where little explorers grow naturally.
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  So we're currently, we've trial brewed another sort of pale ale.
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  I won't give too much away, but we've trial brewed that currently.
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  We just need to taste that and see whether we're happy for that to go to,
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  you know, bigger production.
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  Now, you spoke to Phil earlier who said to you, our core question when we're
• 12:01
  brewing something new is, would you have another pint of it? Yeah.
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  So you can have one. And if you go, no, I don't think I would. That's not what we want.
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  We want our customers to be returning customers to have three or four pints.
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  So that'll determine whether we continue with that beer or we change it.
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  So I see by the end of this week, we will know the answer to that.
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  And then we may be brewing it in the next few weeks.
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  And what is the modern beer drinker looking for these days?
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  Is it no longer just a very strong beer to get bladdered, is it?
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  They're looking for taste and they're looking for something that complements other things like food.
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  Absolutely. So there's very few people, there are still some that come in and
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  want the strongest beer possible because they're going to have two pints and then they're done.
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  But 95% of, especially our customer base, they want something between three
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  and 4% that they can come in. They can have four or five pints of it.
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  They're not legless and they know consistently that it's going to be top-notch.
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  And that's where our core customer range is. So that's where we focus most of our time.
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  And traditionally, British eels have been a little bit flattered.
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  You don't always get the head that you would associate with a lager or you associate
• 13:17
  with a Guinness. Is that typical of wheatwood eels?
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  No, no, not at all. No, we put a lot of effort into recipe development and choosing
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  the right ingredients to make sure that you're going to get that creamy head
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  and it's going to stay at the top of that pint, the whole pint.
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  Now, we brew a beer called Harlequin, which is an English pale ale.
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  All English malt, all English hops.
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  Now, traditionally, the American, New Zealand, Australian hops have the punchy
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  flavors, but UK is catching up slowly.
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  But we believe Harlequin, if you get a chance to try that, is a very good representation
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  of what the UK can produce and what we would can produce.
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  And that head does make a big difference, doesn't it?
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  I mean, it changes the taste or the feeling of tasting the beer.
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  100%, yeah, because a lot of your taste is through your smell and a lot of the
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  smell of your hops and ingredients are in the head.
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  So for you to produce a good head when pouring the pint but be able to keep
• 14:20
  that head on the pint while you're drinking it is so important.
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  If that dies, you'll find that the flavor and aroma of your beer will not die
• 14:30
  with it, but it will not be as enjoyable.
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  So are you guys constantly thinking about what people are looking for,
• 14:38
  what their marketplace is looking for, and responding to that because tastes change at times.
• 14:45
  Definitely, yeah. We'll have sort of, not weekly meetings, but maybe monthly
• 14:49
  meetings, the brewers group with Phil.
• 14:52
  And we just look at, he does all the research on beer trends.
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  So he'll come to us with a printout. This is what seems to be popular.
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  This is what we might do for Christmas. We might do a Christmas ale.
• 15:03
  Then we can go away. We could do some recipe development, use the pilot kit again.
• 15:09
  See where we get to with that and basically like
• 15:13
  i say he will do the work on the trends and we will just sort
• 15:16
  of make products to suit the trends and again come back to the whole culinary
• 15:21
  the whole british scene people are pairing beers as they used to pair um food
• 15:27
  with wine absolutely yeah there's that many styles of beer now that it lends
• 15:32
  itself perfectly you have your punchy american on IPAs,
• 15:36
  which you can pair with certain foods.
• 15:38
  You also have your stouts, which pair perfectly with other foods.
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  So I think the increase in beer styles, like I say, lends itself perfectly to pairing with food,
• 15:48
  We'll be back and talking to Matthew in a couple of minutes time.
• 15:53
  This is the Late Late Lunch Show with Rod Maxwell. Supported by Matthew Dyer.
• 16:00
  Towerbird Learning and Nature's Playground.
• 16:05
  It's Rod Maxwell and I'm down in deepest, most beautiful Cheshire at Wheatwood Eels.
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  It's called Cheshire's Brewery and Distillery. And let's talk about the distillery
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  for a minute, because you shall be part of that process.
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  The smell, I mean, the smell across the whole place is gorgeous.
• 16:22
  But going into all those rooms with the casks, the smell was like you just wanted
• 16:28
  to have some ice cream and pour that over the top of it. It just was gorgeous.
• 16:32
  What would you say is the key difference between a brewer and a distiller and that process, Matthew?
• 16:39
  So in terms of creating
• 16:42
  the liquid that you are going
• 16:45
  to distill and creating a beer to that
• 16:48
  point they're very similar now the
• 16:51
  only discernible difference from that point is you're
• 16:54
  not boiling that liquid with hops as you would do with a beer it's at that point
• 17:01
  when that liquid makes its way into the still that everything's completely different
• 17:05
  so you're then boiling that liquid so that the alcoholic vapour will rise off.
• 17:12
  You're then condensing that alcoholic vapour back into a liquid.
• 17:16
  You're storing that. If you're making whisky, you're storing that in wood.
• 17:20
  If you're making gin, you've flavoured it already.
• 17:23
  So it's at that point that we enter the distillery that brewing and distilling
• 17:28
  are completely different.
• 17:29
  And you showed me the, it is distilled, isn't it?
• 17:32
  And it's a beautiful piece of, it's almost like something you would expect in
• 17:37
  an old Doctor Who movie that he was using to power his movement into space. But it's...
• 17:47
  It's got different levels where the whiskey is rising and that you get different
• 17:52
  levels of concentration of alcohol is that right exactly right yeah so the whiskey
• 17:57
  wash will come up to a boiling point the alcoholic vapor will come off it then
• 18:02
  passes through the column so it's like a
• 18:04
  plate column so each one of them plates we have
• 18:07
  three is a separate distillation so the idea is
• 18:10
  that the the vapor works its way up and it recondenses it
• 18:13
  comes back down and it works its way up again and it recondenses and it goes
• 18:16
  through all three plates the abv will rise as it goes through the plate it then
• 18:21
  recondenses in the condenser and we have a strong whiskey spirit for us to cut
• 18:26
  to a certain abv to then age in the cask and i guess in some ways once you've done that.
• 18:33
  That's where the difference between distilling and brewing changes because your
• 18:38
  your beers can almost go out the door immediately.
• 18:41
  You're keeping your whiskey for, is it three years, minimum?
• 18:45
  Minimum. Yeah. So to legally be called and sold as whiskey, it must spend three years minimum in cask.
• 18:54
  So that's our bare minimum amount of time that we keep spirit in the cask before
• 19:00
  we can sell it. We then decide, do we want to keep it longer?
• 19:03
  Is it good enough to sell it three years sometimes we think
• 19:06
  no it needs a bit more aging so we can take a lot longer to be able to produce
• 19:10
  a spirit that we think is good enough to sell whereas like you just mentioned
• 19:15
  a week from brew to in the cask the beer's ready to go out it's straight out
• 19:20
  of the door it has an eight week shelf life from the moment it's put into cask.
• 19:25
  Straight out the door and people can drink it. Whereas it's a lot more investment
• 19:29
  in whiskey and spirit production.
• 19:31
  Whereas with the beer, almost the process ends from the moment it goes into its keg.
• 19:37
  Actually with whiskey, it's another stage of the process because it's fermenting or distilling.
• 19:43
  It's picking up the flavors of the, is it cherry wood, oak wood or whatever in the barrel?
• 19:49
  So for most of its life, it will be in oak barrels.
• 19:52
  And then depending on the finish we want
• 19:55
  for the product we put them in different finishing barrels so as
• 19:58
  you saw in the in the whiskey store we have red wine
• 20:01
  we have port barrels we have sherry barrels we
• 20:05
  have a whole host of finishing casks which it can then spend
• 20:08
  sort of six months 12 months longer in the
• 20:11
  finishing cask it then picks up the nuanced flavors
• 20:15
  from each of them casks we can decide
• 20:18
  to do a sherry cask release or we can
• 20:21
  sort of blend them all together back into another cask
• 20:24
  and finish it in a different cask so it all depends
• 20:27
  on what we're looking to release as a final product and whether we're happy
• 20:30
  with what comes out of that cask and and so just to pick up on that if if you
• 20:37
  if you're doing a taste test of of a whiskey you might decide actually to get where you want it to be,
• 20:45
  it needs to spend a bit longer, or you change the nature of the cask.
• 20:49
  And that's where the real, I guess,
• 20:52
  the art of it and the knowledge of the distiller really comes through.
• 20:58
  Yeah. So our spirit that we create from our barley, our whiskey spirit, is very distinctive.
• 21:06
  It's got a wheatwood flavor that's the best way for
• 21:09
  me to explain it so if we taste a cask
• 21:12
  after three years we will instantly know that's
• 21:15
  it tastes too much like the base spirit still so that
• 21:18
  needs longer we try after we go oh no that's had
• 21:21
  enough time but that distinctive wheatwood
• 21:24
  spirit flavor is very noticeable certainly for
• 21:27
  us because we've tried it quite a lot so that sort of is where we draw the line
• 21:32
  think no it needs to have slightly less of the wheatwood spirit flavor and more
• 21:37
  of the wood flavor that's kind of where we draw the line i'd say yeah this is
• 21:43
  the late late lunch show with rod maxwell on radio all team.
• 21:49
  So it's Rod Maxwell on the Late Late Lunch Show, supported by our friends from
• 21:52
  Back to the Garden Childcare.
• 21:54
  And I'm down in Wheatwood, Cheshire's Brewery and Distillery.
• 21:58
  And I have to say, if you're looking for a day out, come down here.
• 22:02
  You can come into their tap room. You can buy some of the product.
• 22:05
  You can drink some of the products here. And there's a very nice non-alcoholic
• 22:09
  lager, probably one of the best I've ever had, which means you can have a beer
• 22:13
  and also drink. I drive at the same time.
• 22:15
  I'm speaking with Matthew, one of the brewers here. Matthew,
• 22:20
  how far do your beers travel?
• 22:23
  I mean, is it across the UK? Is it across England?
• 22:27
  So if they are sold to a wholesaler, they can go anywhere in the country.
• 22:33
  We do supply Cheshire Cat to a famous pub in Soho, London, the Devonshire.
• 22:39
  Some of you may be aware of that. So they serve Cheshire Cat regularly.
• 22:42
  Now, our team of three drivers can only go so far in a day.
• 22:47
  You know they can only carry so many barrels they
• 22:50
  can only go so far so we go west as
• 22:54
  far as anglesey and then all over greater
• 22:57
  manchester merseyside preston lancashire
• 23:01
  not sure there's anywhere else i've missed but quite a decent radius for such
• 23:07
  a small team i'd say with only three vans you're bottling as well as casking
• 23:12
  is that right so we don't bottle on site unfortunately Because of space,
• 23:16
  we don't have space for a bottling machine.
• 23:18
  So we do send our beers in 1,000 litre IBCs to a place in Cumbria.
• 23:24
  They will do kegging and bottling and canning for us.
• 23:28
  And will it do in the bottle just as well as it would do in a cask?
• 23:33
  It gets more shelf life because it's filtered.
• 23:38
  They get 12 months of shelf life in a bottle. Cans are slightly different,
• 23:42
  I know in the beer style as well.
• 23:44
  So for a beer like Turncoat, which is naturally hazy, it gets very finely filtered.
• 23:49
  Therefore, there's more natural material in that can, so it gets less of a shelf
• 23:54
  life. It's about six months.
• 23:56
  So coming back to the whole process and the whole industry of brewing,
• 24:02
  it's something that Britain was very famous for, Burton was very famous for,
• 24:07
  and that was partly because of the water, wasn't it, I think?
• 24:10
  And then it seemed like we lost our way a little bit and some other nations,
• 24:14
  America, are very keen on different and have a lot of microbreweries actually
• 24:18
  are very keen on their beers.
• 24:19
  Do you think that the industry and the craft in this country has returned and
• 24:26
  that British English beers are up there with the best?
• 24:31
  Yes, in a word, yeah. I think it's definitely had a resurgence.
• 24:35
  I know of several local breweries just in this area because this is the only
• 24:41
  area that I'm really familiar with but I think,
• 24:44
  The British beer, the British industry is definitely on the rise,
• 24:50
  even despite the news articles that you read that, you know,
• 24:54
  the big boys are monopolizing and they're taking over everything.
• 24:57
  From what I see here day-to-day at Wheatwood, we're getting busier and busier week by week.
• 25:03
  So I can only say, yeah, British beer, our beer is making a right comeback.
• 25:08
  As one of the brewers here, it must almost feel like there's always something
• 25:14
  else that you want to be able to create. Yes.
• 25:18
  But part of what you have to be great at is consistency.
• 25:22
  But do you have an idea of a beer that you would like to actually make?
• 25:28
  Or is there a type that feels out of touch because it's quite technically challenging?
• 25:34
  Or is there one that you would really like to try to create?
• 25:38
  Well, there's one that's, there's a style that's quite controversial and quite
• 25:42
  challenging to make, which is a sour beer.
• 25:45
  So I've had many sort of raspberry berry sours,
• 25:49
  but you're purposely infecting the yeast so that it will give you the sourness
• 25:57
  in the final product, which seems completely backwards for what we're trying to do.
• 26:02
  We don't want infection in there at all. So to brew one of them beers,
• 26:06
  it's very technically difficult and you could risk further infection into the
• 26:11
  beers that we already brew.
• 26:13
  So as much as I'd like to brew one, I don't think I'll ever get the permission
• 26:17
  to try, unfortunately, but they are very tasty.
• 26:20
  Ah, so it's got a berry and fruity style?
• 26:24
  You can brew a berry sort of raspberry sour or you could brew a regular sort of pale ale sour.
• 26:30
  You can do whatever you like. It's the sourness that does the singing,
• 26:34
  which for me, I really like. But they're very controversial.
• 26:37
  I'd say I'm probably in a minority there. And of your range of beers here,
• 26:42
  because you go from the Largos, the non-alcoholic Largos, into the Eels and,
• 26:46
  of course, the Cheshire. It's the Cheshire Cat, isn't it?
• 26:48
  Yeah, Cheshire Cat. Yeah, it's Blonde. We brew everything through to Silverback
• 26:52
  Stout, everything in between.
• 26:54
  So we have Ambers, we have English Pale Ales, New England Pale Ales,
• 26:59
  you know, IPAs, Jester, we have Two Bitters.
• 27:04
  Every beer style, apart from Sours, that you can think of, we make a pretty good one.
• 27:10
  So of all those, if you could only ever drink one, we would ale our beer again,
• 27:16
  what would it be? Harlequin.
• 27:18
  And what is that? So that is an English pale ale.
• 27:21
  So that's full English malt recipe and 100% English hops.
• 27:28
  It's superb really easy drinking not too
• 27:31
  strong sort of mid four abv just the fact that it's english everything's english
• 27:38
  and it just tastes super that would be yeah that would be the one and what would
• 27:44
  you pair that with in food wise some kind of white meat i think maybe chicken,
• 27:51
  yeah i'd say some some chicken or some something something along them lines
• 27:56
  yeah Well, it's been a pleasure to spend a bit of the time here and I've enjoyed
• 28:02
  the non-alcoholic, which is...
• 28:04
  What is that branded as? So it's called Pussycat.
• 28:08
  Pussycat, well, I'll tell you what, it's very nice, actually.
• 28:11
  It's one of the best non-alcoholic lagers I've ever tasted.
• 28:15
  Yeah, we think so, yeah. We did our research and we researched that,
• 28:18
  you know, even the people who are known for making non-alcoholic beers and we
• 28:22
  weren't that impressed, but we are impressed with our own. It's still got the
• 28:26
  lingering aftertaste of a lager. Good.
• 28:29
  And we're a bit less stuffy about lagers these days, aren't we? Yeah.
• 28:34
  Yeah, so not to downtread lagers, but it's difficult to get a lot of flavor into a lager.
• 28:42
  Whereas if you think of an IPA, it's all about flavor.
• 28:45
  So, yeah, I mean, for a non-alcoholic, it's pretty good.
• 28:50
  It's very good indeed. Well, look, if you're ever in the area,
• 28:54
  I think you could definitely take a trip to Wheatwood Ales, come down.
• 28:59
  You can buy from the shop, you can sample down here, you can do some food pairings.
• 29:03
  And if you're thinking of doing something a bit different, maybe with a company,
• 29:06
  you can come down here and hold an event.
• 29:09
  Matthew, it's been a pleasure. Thank you very much for your time.
• 29:11
  Thank you. Nice to meet you. Thanks very much.