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The Middle Way with AI: Zen, Tibet, and the True Self · The Living Conversation

• 0:00
  Foreign.
• 0:14
  I'm
• 0:15
  Anthony
• 0:15
  Wright
• 0:16
  and
• 0:16
  I'm
• 0:16
  your
• 0:16
  host
• 0:16
  today
• 0:17
  on
• 0:17
  the
• 0:17
  Living
• 0:18
  Conversation
• 0:18
  with
• 0:18
  my
• 0:19
  co
• 0:19
  host.
• 0:20
  Welcome.
• 0:21
  And
• 0:22
  our
• 0:22
  guest
• 0:23
  today
• 0:23
  is
• 0:23
  Nick
• 0:24
  Egan.
• 0:24
  And
• 0:25
  Nick,
• 0:27
  I'm
• 0:27
  curious
• 0:28
  about,
• 0:28
  first
• 0:28
  of
• 0:29
  all,
• 0:29
  what's,
• 0:30
  what's
• 0:30
  up
• 0:31
  for
• 0:31
  your
• 0:31
  clients,
• 0:31
  but
• 0:32
  also
• 0:33
  can
• 0:33
  you
• 0:33
  relate
• 0:33
  a
• 0:34
  little
• 0:34
  bit
• 0:34
  about
• 0:34
  what
• 0:34
  your
• 0:35
  first
• 0:36
  exposure
• 0:36
  was
• 0:37
  to
• 0:37
  philosophy,
• 0:37
  like
• 0:38
  Adam
• 0:38
  was
• 0:38
  talking
• 0:38
  about
• 0:39
  before
• 0:39
  the
• 0:39
  break?
• 0:42
  Well.
• 0:44
  Philosophy
• 0:45
  for
• 0:45
  me,
• 0:46
  I
• 0:46
  started
• 0:46
  quite
• 0:47
  young.
• 0:47
  I
• 0:47
  have
• 0:48
  always
• 0:48
  been
• 0:48
  interested
• 0:49
  in
• 0:50
  questions
• 0:50
  of
• 0:51
  the
• 0:51
  mind
• 0:51
  and
• 0:51
  of
• 0:52
  spirit,
• 0:52
  even
• 0:53
  from
• 0:53
  a
• 0:53
  very
• 0:53
  young
• 0:53
  age.
• 0:54
  So
• 0:54
  I
• 0:54
  would
• 0:54
  use.
• 0:55
  I
• 0:55
  used
• 0:55
  to
• 0:55
  wake
• 0:55
  up.
• 0:55
  I
• 0:55
  didn't
• 0:56
  grow
• 0:56
  up
• 0:56
  in
• 0:56
  a
• 0:56
  particularly
• 0:56
  religious
• 0:57
  house
• 0:57
  household,
• 0:57
  but
• 0:57
  I
• 0:57
  used
• 0:58
  to
• 0:58
  wake
• 0:58
  up
• 0:58
  and
• 0:58
  watch
• 0:58
  like
• 0:59
  televangelists
• 0:59
  and
• 1:00
  stuff
• 1:00
  on,
• 1:01
  on
• 1:01
  Sundays
• 1:01
  back
• 1:02
  in
• 1:02
  the.
• 1:02
  This
• 1:02
  was
• 1:02
  back
• 1:02
  when
• 1:02
  there
• 1:03
  were
• 1:03
  only
• 1:03
  four
• 1:03
  channels
• 1:03
  and
• 1:03
  five
• 1:04
  channels
• 1:04
  on
• 1:04
  tv.
• 1:07
  Yeah,
• 1:07
  yeah.
• 1:08
  And
• 1:08
  so
• 1:08
  I
• 1:09
  always
• 1:09
  had
• 1:09
  a
• 1:09
  curious
• 1:10
  mind
• 1:10
  about
• 1:11
  what
• 1:11
  I
• 1:11
  considered,
• 1:12
  even
• 1:12
  at
• 1:12
  that
• 1:12
  time,
• 1:13
  you
• 1:13
  know,
• 1:13
  kind
• 1:13
  of
• 1:13
  the
• 1:14
  big
• 1:14
  questions.
• 1:15
  And
• 1:16
  I
• 1:16
  started
• 1:16
  training
• 1:17
  in
• 1:17
  martial
• 1:17
  arts
• 1:17
  pretty
• 1:18
  intensely,
• 1:19
  but
• 1:19
  I
• 1:19
  always
• 1:19
  had
• 1:20
  an
• 1:20
  idea
• 1:20
  that
• 1:20
  I
• 1:21
  was
• 1:21
  interested
• 1:22
  in
• 1:22
  the
• 1:22
  cultivation
• 1:22
  side.
• 1:24
  So
• 1:24
  I
• 1:24
  started
• 1:24
  studying
• 1:25
  in
• 1:26
  some,
• 1:26
  you
• 1:27
  know,
• 1:27
  Daoist
• 1:27
  tradition,
• 1:28
  like
• 1:28
  energy
• 1:28
  movement,
• 1:29
  type
• 1:29
  of
• 1:29
  cultivation
• 1:30
  systems,
• 1:31
  and
• 1:31
  then
• 1:31
  some
• 1:31
  Western
• 1:32
  intuitive
• 1:32
  traditions.
• 1:33
  And
• 1:33
  then
• 1:33
  at
• 1:33
  the
• 1:33
  same
• 1:33
  time,
• 1:34
  it
• 1:34
  was
• 1:35
  really
• 1:35
  Zen.
• 1:36
  That
• 1:36
  became
• 1:36
  a
• 1:37
  more
• 1:37
  serious
• 1:37
  practice
• 1:38
  for
• 1:38
  me.
• 1:39
  And
• 1:39
  then
• 1:39
  from
• 1:39
  there
• 1:39
  it's
• 1:40
  been.
• 1:41
  That's
• 1:41
  been
• 1:41
  it.
• 1:41
  So
• 1:42
  it
• 1:42
  really
• 1:42
  has
• 1:42
  been
• 1:42
  since
• 1:43
  I
• 1:43
  was
• 1:43
  about
• 1:43
  16,
• 1:44
  in
• 1:44
  a
• 1:44
  more
• 1:44
  formalized
• 1:45
  study.
• 1:45
  Before
• 1:46
  that,
• 1:46
  I
• 1:46
  was
• 1:46
  just
• 1:46
  reading
• 1:46
  every
• 1:47
  book
• 1:47
  I
• 1:47
  could
• 1:47
  get
• 1:47
  my
• 1:47
  hands
• 1:47
  on,
• 1:48
  from
• 1:48
  crystals
• 1:49
  to
• 1:49
  Necronomicon
• 1:50
  to
• 1:51
  the,
• 1:51
  you
• 1:51
  know,
• 1:52
  Christian
• 1:52
  literature,
• 1:53
  whatever.
• 1:54
  Right.
• 1:54
  I'm
• 1:55
  curious
• 1:55
  to
• 1:55
  know
• 1:55
  the
• 1:56
  name
• 1:56
  of
• 1:56
  the
• 1:56
  Roshi
• 1:57
  you
• 1:57
  were
• 1:57
  speaking
• 1:57
  about
• 1:57
  earlier.
• 1:58
  So
• 1:59
  that
• 1:59
  was
• 1:59
  Jakusha
• 2:00
  Kwong
• 2:00
  Roshi
• 2:00
  in
• 2:01
  Sonoma
• 2:01
  County.
• 2:02
  Oh,
• 2:02
  it's
• 2:02
  Anomaly
• 2:02
  County.
• 2:03
  Jacuzza
• 2:03
  Kwan.
• 2:04
  Yeah.
• 2:04
  Kwong.
• 2:05
  Yeah.
• 2:05
  Okay.
• 2:06
  He,
• 2:06
  he
• 2:07
  is
• 2:07
  still
• 2:07
  alive,
• 2:08
  but
• 2:08
  I
• 2:08
  believe
• 2:08
  his
• 2:08
  son
• 2:09
  is
• 2:09
  there
• 2:10
  at
• 2:10
  Sonoma
• 2:10
  Mountains
• 2:10
  and
• 2:10
  Center.
• 2:11
  Oh,
• 2:11
  oh,
• 2:11
  oh.
• 2:12
  Sonoma
• 2:12
  Mountains
• 2:12
  and
• 2:13
  Center.
• 2:13
  Okay.
• 2:14
  All
• 2:14
  right.
• 2:15
  I
• 2:15
  had
• 2:15
  studied
• 2:16
  with
• 2:16
  Katagiri
• 2:16
  Roshi
• 2:17
  in
• 2:17
  the
• 2:18
  Minnesota
• 2:18
  Zen
• 2:19
  center.
• 2:19
  And,
• 2:19
  and
• 2:19
  he
• 2:19
  had.
• 2:20
  Was
• 2:20
  a
• 2:21
  co
• 2:21
  founder
• 2:21
  of
• 2:22
  San
• 2:22
  Francisco
• 2:23
  Zen
• 2:23
  center
• 2:24
  with
• 2:24
  Suzuki
• 2:25
  Roshi.
• 2:26
  So,
• 2:26
  Nick,
• 2:27
  I'm.
• 2:27
  I'm
• 2:27
  just
• 2:27
  curious
• 2:28
  what's
• 2:28
  up
• 2:29
  for
• 2:29
  your
• 2:29
  clients
• 2:29
  these
• 2:30
  days?
• 2:31
  What
• 2:31
  seems
• 2:31
  to
• 2:31
  be
• 2:31
  a,
• 2:32
  a
• 2:32
  theme
• 2:32
  that
• 2:33
  is
• 2:33
  presenting
• 2:33
  itself?
• 2:35
  The
• 2:35
  theme
• 2:37
  it's
• 2:37
  always.
• 2:37
  I
• 2:37
  mean,
• 2:37
  it
• 2:38
  depends
• 2:38
  on
• 2:38
  what
• 2:38
  they're
• 2:39
  working
• 2:39
  on.
• 2:39
  So
• 2:40
  everybody
• 2:40
  has
• 2:40
  their
• 2:40
  own
• 2:41
  unique
• 2:42
  challenges.
• 2:43
  And
• 2:44
  I
• 2:44
  think
• 2:44
  whatever,
• 2:45
  whatever
• 2:45
  the
• 2:45
  theme
• 2:45
  is
• 2:46
  that's
• 2:46
  presenting
• 2:46
  to
• 2:47
  people,
• 2:47
  the
• 2:47
  way
• 2:47
  I
• 2:47
  tend
• 2:48
  to
• 2:48
  work
• 2:48
  is
• 2:48
  I
• 2:49
  work
• 2:49
  from
• 2:49
  whatever
• 2:50
  the
• 2:50
  surface
• 2:50
  level
• 2:50
  is
• 2:51
  and
• 2:51
  then
• 2:51
  go
• 2:51
  draw
• 2:52
  down
• 2:52
  into
• 2:53
  more
• 2:53
  of
• 2:53
  the
• 2:53
  mindset
• 2:53
  work.
• 2:54
  So
• 2:54
  I
• 2:54
  don't
• 2:54
  Usually
• 2:54
  start
• 2:54
  with
• 2:54
  the
• 2:55
  mindset
• 2:55
  work.
• 2:55
  I
• 2:55
  start
• 2:55
  with
• 2:56
  how
• 2:56
  whatever
• 2:56
  they
• 2:56
  identify
• 2:57
  as
• 2:57
  a
• 2:57
  gap.
• 2:57
  So,
• 2:58
  like,
• 2:58
  oh,
• 2:58
  I
• 2:58
  see.
• 2:58
  If
• 2:59
  they're.
• 2:59
  Yeah.
• 2:59
  If
• 2:59
  they
• 3:00
  are
• 3:00
  a
• 3:00
  small
• 3:00
  business
• 3:00
  owner,
• 3:01
  then
• 3:01
  it's
• 3:01
  like,
• 3:01
  oh,
• 3:01
  man,
• 3:02
  I
• 3:02
  feel
• 3:02
  like
• 3:02
  I'm
• 3:02
  working
• 3:02
  constantly
• 3:03
  and
• 3:03
  I
• 3:03
  never
• 3:04
  can
• 3:04
  get
• 3:04
  out
• 3:04
  of,
• 3:04
  you
• 3:05
  know,
• 3:05
  the
• 3:05
  weeds.
• 3:05
  Or
• 3:06
  maybe
• 3:06
  they're
• 3:06
  an
• 3:06
  executive
• 3:07
  and
• 3:07
  it's
• 3:07
  like,
• 3:07
  yeah,
• 3:08
  I'm
• 3:08
  trying
• 3:08
  to
• 3:08
  delegate
• 3:09
  to
• 3:09
  my
• 3:09
  team,
• 3:09
  but
• 3:09
  they're
• 3:10
  just.
• 3:10
  They're
• 3:10
  just
• 3:10
  not
• 3:10
  getting
• 3:11
  it.
• 3:11
  I'm
• 3:11
  really
• 3:11
  frustrated,
• 3:12
  whatever
• 3:12
  it
• 3:12
  is.
• 3:13
  And
• 3:13
  then
• 3:13
  we
• 3:13
  sort
• 3:14
  of
• 3:14
  draw
• 3:14
  on
• 3:14
  that
• 3:14
  thread
• 3:15
  all
• 3:15
  the
• 3:15
  way
• 3:15
  down
• 3:16
  through
• 3:16
  into
• 3:16
  whatever
• 3:17
  the
• 3:17
  mindset
• 3:18
  is
• 3:18
  that's
• 3:18
  creating
• 3:18
  that
• 3:19
  effect
• 3:19
  is
• 3:19
  how
• 3:20
  I
• 3:20
  tend
• 3:20
  to
• 3:20
  work.
• 3:20
  So
• 3:21
  it's
• 3:21
  not.
• 3:21
  It's
• 3:21
  hard
• 3:22
  to
• 3:22
  say
• 3:22
  that
• 3:22
  there's
• 3:22
  one
• 3:23
  particular
• 3:23
  theme,
• 3:23
  but
• 3:24
  certainly
• 3:24
  AI
• 3:25
  is
• 3:25
  an
• 3:25
  interesting
• 3:27
  current
• 3:27
  theme
• 3:28
  right
• 3:28
  now,
• 3:29
  and
• 3:29
  is.
• 3:29
  That
• 3:30
  seeming
• 3:30
  to
• 3:32
  have
• 3:34
  some
• 3:37
  shift
• 3:37
  of
• 3:38
  people's
• 3:38
  disposition?
• 3:41
  I
• 3:41
  mean,
• 3:42
  AI
• 3:42
  is
• 3:42
  both.
• 3:44
  I
• 3:44
  think
• 3:44
  it
• 3:44
  depends
• 3:45
  on
• 3:45
  where
• 3:45
  you
• 3:45
  are
• 3:46
  and
• 3:46
  what
• 3:46
  you're
• 3:46
  doing
• 3:47
  and
• 3:47
  how
• 3:48
  far
• 3:48
  out
• 3:48
  you're
• 3:48
  looking.
• 3:49
  So
• 3:49
  I
• 3:49
  think
• 3:49
  for
• 3:49
  many
• 3:50
  people,
• 3:50
  AI
• 3:50
  is
• 3:51
  either
• 3:51
  a
• 3:51
  threat
• 3:51
  or
• 3:52
  something
• 3:52
  that
• 3:52
  they.
• 3:53
  An
• 3:53
  opportunity
• 3:54
  currently.
• 3:56
  And
• 3:56
  I
• 3:56
  think
• 3:57
  that
• 3:57
  people
• 3:57
  are
• 3:57
  wondering
• 3:58
  how
• 3:58
  best
• 3:59
  to
• 3:59
  implement
• 4:00
  it
• 4:00
  and
• 4:00
  what's
• 4:00
  the
• 4:01
  learning
• 4:01
  curve
• 4:01
  there
• 4:01
  and
• 4:02
  what's
• 4:02
  possible
• 4:02
  with
• 4:03
  it.
• 4:03
  And
• 4:03
  then
• 4:03
  some
• 4:04
  people
• 4:04
  are
• 4:04
  worried,
• 4:04
  like,
• 4:04
  well,
• 4:06
  it
• 4:06
  does
• 4:06
  my
• 4:06
  job.
• 4:06
  Like,
• 4:07
  if
• 4:07
  I'm
• 4:07
  a
• 4:07
  copywriter
• 4:08
  or
• 4:08
  something,
• 4:08
  it
• 4:08
  does
• 4:08
  my
• 4:09
  job
• 4:09
  quite
• 4:09
  well.
• 4:09
  Or
• 4:10
  even
• 4:10
  a
• 4:10
  coach.
• 4:10
  Right.
• 4:10
  I
• 4:11
  was
• 4:11
  just
• 4:11
  talking
• 4:11
  about
• 4:11
  this.
• 4:11
  I
• 4:12
  had
• 4:12
  a
• 4:12
  group
• 4:12
  of
• 4:12
  coaches,
• 4:13
  like,
• 4:13
  kind
• 4:13
  of
• 4:13
  a
• 4:13
  mastermind
• 4:14
  that
• 4:14
  I
• 4:14
  meet
• 4:14
  with,
• 4:15
  and
• 4:15
  one
• 4:15
  guy
• 4:15
  has
• 4:17
  Tony
• 4:18
  Robbins.
• 4:18
  I
• 4:18
  guess
• 4:18
  you
• 4:18
  can
• 4:18
  pay
• 4:19
  100
• 4:19
  bucks
• 4:19
  a
• 4:19
  month
• 4:19
  or
• 4:20
  whatever
• 4:20
  and
• 4:20
  get
• 4:20
  the
• 4:20
  AI
• 4:21
  version
• 4:21
  of
• 4:21
  Tony
• 4:21
  Robbins
• 4:22
  that's
• 4:22
  audio,
• 4:23
  so
• 4:23
  you
• 4:23
  can
• 4:23
  ask
• 4:23
  me
• 4:24
  questions
• 4:24
  and
• 4:24
  all
• 4:24
  that.
• 4:25
  And
• 4:25
  he
• 4:25
  said,
• 4:25
  it's
• 4:25
  great.
• 4:25
  It's
• 4:26
  exactly
• 4:26
  like
• 4:26
  how
• 4:27
  Tony
• 4:27
  Robbins
• 4:27
  would
• 4:27
  be.
• 4:28
  And
• 4:28
  it's
• 4:28
  like,
• 4:28
  well,
• 4:28
  that's,
• 4:29
  you
• 4:29
  know,
• 4:29
  one
• 4:29
  of
• 4:29
  the
• 4:29
  top
• 4:29
  coaches
• 4:30
  in
• 4:30
  the
• 4:30
  world.
• 4:30
  And
• 4:32
  so
• 4:32
  there
• 4:33
  is
• 4:33
  that
• 4:33
  component.
• 4:33
  But
• 4:34
  he
• 4:34
  was
• 4:34
  also
• 4:34
  saying,
• 4:34
  like,
• 4:34
  people
• 4:35
  are
• 4:35
  still
• 4:35
  looking
• 4:35
  for
• 4:35
  the
• 4:36
  human
• 4:36
  connection,
• 4:36
  and
• 4:37
  so
• 4:37
  it
• 4:38
  probably
• 4:38
  will
• 4:39
  wipe
• 4:39
  out
• 4:39
  some
• 4:41
  form
• 4:41
  of
• 4:41
  the
• 4:41
  coaching
• 4:42
  industry,
• 4:42
  but
• 4:42
  maybe
• 4:43
  not
• 4:43
  the
• 4:43
  top
• 4:43
  element
• 4:44
  of
• 4:44
  it,
• 4:44
  but
• 4:44
  maybe
• 4:44
  it
• 4:44
  will
• 4:45
  eventually.
• 4:45
  I'm
• 4:45
  not
• 4:45
  sure.
• 4:46
  Yeah.
• 4:46
  Are
• 4:46
  you
• 4:46
  using
• 4:47
  the
• 4:47
  tool
• 4:47
  or
• 4:47
  is
• 4:47
  the
• 4:48
  tool
• 4:48
  using
• 4:48
  you?
• 4:49
  Yeah,
• 4:50
  yeah,
• 4:50
  exactly.
• 4:51
  Exactly.
• 4:51
  Yeah.
• 4:52
  If
• 4:52
  it's
• 4:52
  free,
• 4:52
  then
• 4:52
  you
• 4:53
  are
• 4:53
  the
• 4:53
  product.
• 4:53
  Right.
• 4:55
  My
• 4:55
  gosh.
• 4:57
  So
• 4:58
  your
• 4:58
  thoughts,
• 4:58
  Adam?
• 4:59
  Yeah,
• 5:00
  I
• 5:00
  actually
• 5:00
  just
• 5:00
  pitched
• 5:00
  a
• 5:01
  piece
• 5:02
  for
• 5:03
  one
• 5:03
  publication
• 5:04
  about.
• 5:05
  I
• 5:05
  was
• 5:05
  really
• 5:06
  happy
• 5:06
  how
• 5:06
  it
• 5:06
  turned
• 5:07
  out
• 5:07
  about
• 5:08
  that.
• 5:08
  We
• 5:09
  just
• 5:09
  need
• 5:09
  to
• 5:09
  use
• 5:09
  the
• 5:10
  middle
• 5:10
  way
• 5:10
  for
• 5:10
  technology
• 5:11
  again.
• 5:11
  You
• 5:12
  know,
• 5:12
  we.
• 5:12
  We.
• 5:14
  People
• 5:14
  are.
• 5:14
  People
• 5:15
  are
• 5:15
  phobic
• 5:16
  about,
• 5:16
  like,
• 5:16
  they
• 5:16
  said
• 5:17
  there's,
• 5:17
  on
• 5:17
  one
• 5:17
  hand,
• 5:17
  they're
• 5:17
  phobic
• 5:18
  about
• 5:18
  AI,
• 5:18
  it's
• 5:19
  going
• 5:19
  to
• 5:19
  ruin
• 5:19
  everything.
• 5:19
  On
• 5:19
  the
• 5:20
  other
• 5:20
  hand,
• 5:20
  I
• 5:20
  think
• 5:20
  it's
• 5:20
  going
• 5:20
  to
• 5:20
  solve
• 5:21
  everything.
• 5:22
  And
• 5:22
  to
• 5:23
  me,
• 5:23
  it's
• 5:23
  just
• 5:23
  another
• 5:23
  example
• 5:24
  of
• 5:24
  using
• 5:24
  the
• 5:24
  middle
• 5:24
  way.
• 5:25
  It's
• 5:25
  like,
• 5:25
  you
• 5:25
  don't
• 5:26
  need
• 5:26
  to
• 5:26
  completely
• 5:27
  dismiss
• 5:27
  it.
• 5:27
  You
• 5:28
  don't
• 5:28
  need
• 5:28
  to
• 5:28
  complet.
• 5:28
  Completely
• 5:29
  embrace
• 5:29
  it
• 5:29
  in
• 5:29
  everything
• 5:29
  you
• 5:30
  do.
• 5:31
  We've
• 5:31
  been
• 5:31
  through
• 5:31
  this
• 5:32
  a
• 5:32
  million
• 5:32
  times
• 5:32
  as
• 5:33
  human
• 5:33
  beings.
• 5:33
  There's
• 5:33
  been
• 5:34
  technology
• 5:34
  since
• 5:34
  the
• 5:34
  wheel
• 5:35
  and
• 5:35
  fire
• 5:35
  and
• 5:36
  whatnot.
• 5:37
  And
• 5:37
  we
• 5:37
  deal
• 5:37
  with
• 5:37
  it.
• 5:37
  You
• 5:37
  know,
• 5:38
  we
• 5:38
  deal
• 5:38
  with
• 5:38
  it.
• 5:39
  Society
• 5:39
  completely
• 5:40
  transforms
• 5:41
  and,
• 5:41
  and,
• 5:42
  and
• 5:42
  humanity.
• 5:43
  From
• 5:43
  a
• 5:43
  Confucian
• 5:43
  perspective,
• 5:44
  humanity
• 5:44
  has
• 5:44
  the
• 5:45
  principle
• 5:45
  in
• 5:45
  the
• 5:45
  human
• 5:46
  being.
• 5:46
  So
• 5:46
  they.
• 5:47
  We
• 5:48
  are
• 5:48
  like.
• 5:49
  We
• 5:49
  are
• 5:49
  like
• 5:49
  little
• 5:50
  pieces
• 5:50
  of
• 5:50
  dog
• 5:51
  that
• 5:51
  just
• 5:51
  keep
• 5:52
  massaging
• 5:53
  and
• 5:53
  working
• 5:54
  and
• 5:54
  whatever
• 5:55
  comes
• 5:55
  up,
• 5:55
  we
• 5:55
  harmonize
• 5:56
  it.
• 5:56
  We're
• 5:56
  meant
• 5:56
  to
• 5:56
  harmonize
• 5:57
  it.
• 5:57
  We're
• 5:57
  meant
• 5:57
  to
• 5:57
  be.
• 5:58
  We're
• 5:58
  meant
• 5:59
  to
• 5:59
  be
• 5:59
  beings
• 5:59
  of
• 6:00
  harm,
• 6:00
  our
• 6:00
  relationships
• 6:01
  in
• 6:01
  our
• 6:01
  life.
• 6:02
  So
• 6:02
  if
• 6:02
  we're,
• 6:03
  if
• 6:03
  we're
• 6:04
  doing
• 6:04
  our
• 6:05
  job,
• 6:05
  so
• 6:05
  to
• 6:05
  speak,
• 6:05
  in
• 6:06
  a
• 6:06
  Confucian
• 6:06
  perspective,
• 6:07
  if
• 6:07
  we're
• 6:07
  doing.
• 6:08
  If
• 6:08
  we're
• 6:08
  fulfilling
• 6:09
  our
• 6:09
  heavenly
• 6:10
  mandate,
• 6:10
  fulfilling
• 6:11
  our
• 6:11
  heaven,
• 6:11
  heaven's
• 6:11
  destiny,
• 6:12
  then
• 6:12
  we're
• 6:13
  harmonizing
• 6:13
  things,
• 6:13
  including
• 6:14
  harmonizing
• 6:14
  AI.
• 6:15
  So
• 6:16
  in
• 6:16
  the
• 6:16
  Buddhist
• 6:17
  perspective,
• 6:17
  I
• 6:18
  would
• 6:18
  say
• 6:18
  middle
• 6:19
  way,
• 6:19
  not
• 6:19
  too
• 6:19
  much
• 6:20
  AI,
• 6:20
  not
• 6:20
  too
• 6:20
  little.
• 6:21
  Right.
• 6:21
  And
• 6:22
  we.
• 6:22
  We've
• 6:22
  done
• 6:22
  this
• 6:22
  before
• 6:23
  with
• 6:23
  radio,
• 6:23
  we've
• 6:24
  done
• 6:24
  this
• 6:24
  with
• 6:24
  tv,
• 6:24
  we've
• 6:25
  done
• 6:25
  this
• 6:25
  with
• 6:25
  the
• 6:25
  Internet.
• 6:26
  We
• 6:26
  do
• 6:26
  this
• 6:26
  a
• 6:26
  million
• 6:27
  times.
• 6:27
  So
• 6:27
  I
• 6:27
  don't
• 6:27
  think
• 6:27
  there's
• 6:28
  a
• 6:28
  reason
• 6:28
  to
• 6:28
  be
• 6:29
  panicked
• 6:29
  about
• 6:29
  it.
• 6:30
  It
• 6:30
  is
• 6:30
  very
• 6:31
  transformative.
• 6:32
  I
• 6:32
  mean,
• 6:32
  I
• 6:32
  think
• 6:33
  it
• 6:33
  had
• 6:33
  a.
• 6:33
  It's
• 6:34
  already
• 6:34
  had
• 6:35
  a
• 6:35
  hand
• 6:35
  in
• 6:36
  a
• 6:36
  lot
• 6:36
  of
• 6:37
  major
• 6:37
  changes,
• 6:37
  but
• 6:38
  humanity
• 6:39
  finds
• 6:39
  a
• 6:39
  way.
• 6:40
  Well,
• 6:40
  my
• 6:41
  question
• 6:41
  is,
• 6:41
  does
• 6:42
  AI
• 6:42
  have
• 6:42
  Buddha
• 6:43
  nature?
• 6:46
  That's
• 6:46
  like
• 6:46
  a
• 6:46
  coon
• 6:47
  right
• 6:47
  there.
• 6:47
  Oh,
• 6:48
  right,
• 6:48
  yeah.
• 6:49
  Any
• 6:49
  thoughts,
• 6:50
  Nick?
• 6:50
  That
• 6:50
  it's
• 6:50
  a.
• 6:51
  So
• 6:52
  I
• 6:53
  mean,
• 6:53
  from.
• 6:53
  You
• 6:53
  could
• 6:53
  take
• 6:53
  that
• 6:54
  from
• 6:54
  like
• 6:54
  a
• 6:54
  Zen
• 6:54
  perspective.
• 6:55
  And
• 6:55
  I
• 6:55
  think
• 6:56
  there's
• 6:56
  an
• 6:56
  argument
• 6:56
  to
• 6:57
  be
• 6:57
  made
• 6:57
  that
• 6:57
  anything
• 6:57
  that
• 6:57
  you
• 6:58
  are
• 6:58
  experiencing
• 6:59
  is
• 6:59
  a
• 6:59
  reflection
• 7:00
  of
• 7:00
  your
• 7:00
  own
• 7:00
  Buddha
• 7:01
  nature.
• 7:01
  So,
• 7:01
  like,
• 7:01
  by
• 7:02
  definition,
• 7:02
  the
• 7:02
  entire
• 7:03
  universe
• 7:03
  has
• 7:03
  Buddha
• 7:04
  nature.
• 7:04
  From
• 7:04
  that
• 7:05
  would
• 7:05
  be
• 7:05
  like
• 7:05
  a
• 7:05
  mind
• 7:05
  only
• 7:05
  like
• 7:06
  a
• 7:06
  Chitta
• 7:06
  mantra
• 7:06
  kind
• 7:07
  of
• 7:07
  philosophical
• 7:08
  perspective.
• 7:08
  But
• 7:08
  from
• 7:08
  a.
• 7:09
  It's
• 7:10
  an
• 7:10
  interesting
• 7:10
  quote.
• 7:10
  I've
• 7:11
  actually
• 7:11
  considered
• 7:12
  writing
• 7:12
  either
• 7:13
  a
• 7:13
  little
• 7:13
  thesis
• 7:14
  on
• 7:14
  this
• 7:14
  or
• 7:14
  a
• 7:14
  paper
• 7:14
  or
• 7:15
  something
• 7:15
  like
• 7:15
  that.
• 7:15
  From
• 7:15
  a.
• 7:16
  If
• 7:16
  we're
• 7:16
  taking
• 7:16
  just
• 7:17
  like
• 7:17
  a
• 7:17
  conventional
• 7:18
  perspective,
• 7:18
  conventional
• 7:19
  philosophical
• 7:20
  view.
• 7:21
  From
• 7:21
  a
• 7:21
  Buddhist
• 7:22
  perspective,
• 7:23
  inanimate
• 7:24
  objects,
• 7:25
  not
• 7:25
  on
• 7:25
  an
• 7:25
  ultimate
• 7:26
  level,
• 7:26
  how
• 7:26
  I
• 7:26
  was
• 7:26
  just
• 7:26
  describing
• 7:27
  it
• 7:27
  too,
• 7:27
  but
• 7:27
  like
• 7:28
  on
• 7:28
  a
• 7:28
  relative
• 7:28
  level,
• 7:28
  it's
• 7:29
  not
• 7:29
  possible
• 7:29
  for
• 7:30
  them
• 7:30
  to
• 7:30
  have
• 7:30
  consciousness.
• 7:31
  Right?
• 7:32
  So
• 7:32
  you
• 7:32
  can't.
• 7:33
  It's
• 7:33
  like
• 7:33
  no
• 7:33
  matter
• 7:34
  how,
• 7:34
  like
• 7:34
  a
• 7:35
  rock
• 7:35
  will
• 7:35
  never
• 7:35
  attain
• 7:36
  consciousness.
• 7:37
  Rock
• 7:37
  could
• 7:37
  be
• 7:37
  considered
• 7:38
  like
• 7:38
  from.
• 7:38
  This
• 7:38
  is
• 7:39
  where
• 7:39
  it
• 7:39
  gets
• 7:39
  a
• 7:39
  little
• 7:39
  bit
• 7:39
  confusing
• 7:39
  with
• 7:40
  Buddhism.
• 7:40
  From
• 7:40
  Buddhism
• 7:41
  on
• 7:41
  the
• 7:41
  ultimate
• 7:41
  state
• 7:42
  level,
• 7:42
  everything
• 7:43
  is
• 7:43
  a
• 7:43
  reflection
• 7:43
  of
• 7:44
  consciousness.
• 7:44
  So
• 7:44
  the
• 7:44
  substrate
• 7:45
  of
• 7:45
  the
• 7:45
  universe
• 7:46
  is
• 7:46
  itself
• 7:46
  consciousness
• 7:47
  and
• 7:47
  energy.
• 7:47
  But
• 7:48
  that's
• 7:48
  talking
• 7:48
  about
• 7:48
  like
• 7:48
  the
• 7:49
  fundamentals,
• 7:49
  not
• 7:49
  like
• 7:50
  the
• 7:50
  thoughts
• 7:51
  of
• 7:51
  a
• 7:51
  rock.
• 7:51
  So
• 7:52
  a
• 7:52
  rock
• 7:52
  can
• 7:52
  never
• 7:52
  have
• 7:52
  thoughts.
• 7:53
  From
• 7:53
  a
• 7:53
  Buddhist
• 7:53
  perspective.
• 7:54
  Same
• 7:55
  goes
• 7:55
  for
• 7:55
  like
• 7:55
  AI
• 7:56
  like
• 7:56
  it
• 7:56
  would
• 7:56
  be
• 7:56
  impossible,
• 7:58
  at
• 7:58
  least
• 7:58
  from
• 7:59
  my
• 7:59
  understanding.
• 7:59
  I
• 7:59
  would
• 8:00
  love
• 8:00
  to
• 8:00
  hear
• 8:00
  both
• 8:00
  of
• 8:01
  your
• 8:01
  perspective
• 8:01
  on
• 8:01
  this.
• 8:02
  It
• 8:02
  would
• 8:02
  be
• 8:02
  impossible
• 8:03
  for
• 8:03
  an
• 8:03
  inanimate
• 8:04
  AI
• 8:04
  to
• 8:05
  ever
• 8:05
  become,
• 8:06
  you
• 8:06
  know,
• 8:06
  so
• 8:06
  called
• 8:06
  age,
• 8:07
  like
• 8:07
  artificial
• 8:07
  general.
• 8:09
  Like
• 8:09
  it's
• 8:09
  actually
• 8:10
  not
• 8:10
  intelligent.
• 8:11
  It
• 8:11
  doesn't.
• 8:11
  Not
• 8:12
  in
• 8:12
  the
• 8:12
  way
• 8:12
  that
• 8:13
  I
• 8:13
  would
• 8:13
  define
• 8:13
  it
• 8:13
  as
• 8:14
  sentient.
• 8:14
  So
• 8:15
  like,
• 8:15
  could
• 8:15
  AI
• 8:16
  ever
• 8:16
  become
• 8:16
  sentient?
• 8:16
  From
• 8:16
  a
• 8:17
  Buddhist
• 8:17
  perspective,
• 8:18
  I
• 8:18
  would
• 8:18
  have
• 8:18
  to
• 8:19
  say
• 8:19
  no.
• 8:20
  Yeah,
• 8:22
  I
• 8:22
  get
• 8:23
  a
• 8:23
  sense
• 8:23
  that
• 8:23
  a
• 8:24
  lot
• 8:24
  of
• 8:24
  folks
• 8:24
  are
• 8:24
  projecting
• 8:26
  their
• 8:27
  expectations
• 8:27
  upon
• 8:28
  it.
• 8:31
  Your
• 8:31
  thoughts,
• 8:32
  Adam?
• 8:33
  Well,
• 8:33
  one
• 8:34
  thing
• 8:34
  is
• 8:36
  there
• 8:36
  has
• 8:36
  to
• 8:36
  be
• 8:37
  an
• 8:37
  element,
• 8:37
  I
• 8:37
  think
• 8:37
  of
• 8:37
  will.
• 8:38
  And
• 8:39
  AI
• 8:40
  doesn't
• 8:40
  have
• 8:40
  a
• 8:40
  will.
• 8:41
  We
• 8:42
  have
• 8:42
  to
• 8:42
  put
• 8:42
  the
• 8:42
  will
• 8:43
  in.
• 8:44
  So
• 8:44
  why,
• 8:47
  what
• 8:47
  in
• 8:48
  its
• 8:48
  nature,
• 8:48
  so
• 8:49
  to
• 8:49
  speak,
• 8:49
  would
• 8:49
  drive
• 8:50
  it
• 8:50
  to
• 8:50
  become
• 8:50
  sentient?
• 8:51
  Why
• 8:51
  would
• 8:51
  it
• 8:51
  care?
• 8:52
  It's
• 8:53
  inanimate.
• 8:53
  It
• 8:54
  wouldn't
• 8:54
  have
• 8:54
  no
• 8:54
  concept
• 8:54
  of
• 8:55
  why
• 8:55
  this
• 8:55
  is
• 8:55
  important
• 8:55
  to,
• 8:56
  to
• 8:56
  be
• 8:56
  sentient.
• 8:57
  It's
• 8:57
  just
• 8:58
  existing
• 8:58
  like
• 8:58
  a
• 8:58
  rob.
• 8:59
  Like
• 8:59
  mixing.
• 9:00
  Dr.
• 9:00
  Who
• 9:01
  once
• 9:01
  told
• 9:01
  a
• 9:01
  story
• 9:01
  about
• 9:02
  this
• 9:03
  similar.
• 9:03
  But
• 9:04
  even,
• 9:04
  even
• 9:04
  maybe,
• 9:05
  you
• 9:05
  know,
• 9:05
  from
• 9:05
  a
• 9:05
  Buddhist
• 9:06
  perspective,
• 9:06
  Nick,
• 9:06
  you
• 9:06
  would
• 9:07
  be
• 9:07
  able
• 9:07
  to
• 9:07
  speak
• 9:07
  to
• 9:07
  this
• 9:07
  like
• 9:08
  a
• 9:08
  high,
• 9:08
  you
• 9:09
  know,
• 9:09
  step
• 9:09
  up
• 9:09
  from
• 9:09
  a
• 9:09
  rock.
• 9:10
  Right.
• 9:10
  Or
• 9:11
  you
• 9:11
  have
• 9:12
  living
• 9:12
  being,
• 9:13
  like
• 9:13
  for
• 9:13
  example,
• 9:14
  a
• 9:14
  tree.
• 9:14
  Right.
• 9:15
  So
• 9:15
  Dr.
• 9:16
  Who
• 9:16
  would
• 9:16
  tell
• 9:16
  a
• 9:16
  story
• 9:17
  of
• 9:17
  how
• 9:18
  someone
• 9:19
  would
• 9:19
  go
• 9:19
  into
• 9:19
  the
• 9:20
  Redwood
• 9:20
  forest
• 9:21
  and
• 9:21
  say,
• 9:21
  oh,
• 9:22
  you
• 9:22
  know,
• 9:22
  this
• 9:23
  tree
• 9:23
  really
• 9:23
  speaks
• 9:24
  to
• 9:24
  me.
• 9:24
  And
• 9:24
  it,
• 9:25
  I,
• 9:25
  you
• 9:25
  know,
• 9:26
  it
• 9:26
  gave
• 9:26
  me
• 9:26
  these
• 9:26
  warm
• 9:27
  feelings
• 9:27
  and
• 9:28
  I
• 9:28
  gave
• 9:28
  them
• 9:28
  back
• 9:28
  and
• 9:28
  this
• 9:29
  kind
• 9:29
  of
• 9:29
  thing.
• 9:29
  And,
• 9:30
  and
• 9:30
  Dr.
• 9:30
  Wu's
• 9:31
  take
• 9:31
  was,
• 9:31
  well,
• 9:31
  that's
• 9:32
  nice.
• 9:32
  But
• 9:32
  that's
• 9:32
  just
• 9:33
  your,
• 9:33
  you
• 9:33
  know,
• 9:33
  to
• 9:34
  paraphrase,
• 9:34
  that's
• 9:34
  your
• 9:34
  projection.
• 9:35
  The
• 9:36
  tree
• 9:36
  didn't
• 9:36
  actually
• 9:36
  do
• 9:36
  any
• 9:37
  of
• 9:37
  that.
• 9:37
  That
• 9:37
  was
• 9:37
  your
• 9:37
  projection.
• 9:38
  So
• 9:39
  on
• 9:39
  one
• 9:39
  hand,
• 9:40
  the
• 9:40
  two
• 9:40
  thoughts
• 9:40
  that,
• 9:41
  that
• 9:41
  come
• 9:41
  to
• 9:41
  me
• 9:41
  right
• 9:41
  now
• 9:42
  is
• 9:42
  that
• 9:42
  on
• 9:42
  one
• 9:42
  hand
• 9:43
  I
• 9:43
  don't
• 9:44
  see
• 9:44
  AI
• 9:45
  having
• 9:45
  any
• 9:46
  kind
• 9:46
  of
• 9:46
  will.
• 9:47
  So
• 9:47
  that
• 9:47
  would
• 9:47
  be
• 9:48
  something
• 9:48
  that
• 9:48
  it
• 9:49
  would
• 9:49
  have
• 9:49
  to
• 9:49
  just
• 9:50
  generate.
• 9:50
  I
• 9:51
  will
• 9:51
  say
• 9:51
  one
• 9:51
  more
• 9:51
  thing
• 9:52
  though.
• 9:53
  The
• 9:53
  human
• 9:53
  mind
• 9:54
  cannot
• 9:54
  grasp
• 9:55
  exponentiality.
• 9:56
  Like
• 9:56
  it's
• 9:57
  just
• 9:57
  beyond
• 9:57
  us.
• 9:58
  And
• 9:58
  AI,
• 10:00
  our
• 10:01
  human
• 10:01
  minds
• 10:01
  cannot
• 10:02
  grasp
• 10:02
  exponentiality.
• 10:03
  Exponential.
• 10:05
  Yes.
• 10:05
  Okay.
• 10:06
  And
• 10:06
  AI
• 10:06
  is
• 10:06
  growing
• 10:07
  exponentially.
• 10:08
  Like
• 10:09
  it's,
• 10:11
  it's
• 10:11
  unfathomable.
• 10:12
  To
• 10:12
  us
• 10:12
  how
• 10:13
  much
• 10:13
  it's
• 10:13
  processing
• 10:14
  and
• 10:14
  doing
• 10:14
  and
• 10:14
  learning,
• 10:15
  so
• 10:15
  to
• 10:15
  speak,
• 10:16
  learning
• 10:17
  so
• 10:17
  on.
• 10:17
  On
• 10:18
  one
• 10:18
  hand
• 10:18
  the
• 10:19
  sky
• 10:19
  may
• 10:19
  be
• 10:19
  the
• 10:19
  limit.
• 10:20
  Maybe
• 10:21
  somehow
• 10:21
  some
• 10:22
  way
• 10:22
  some
• 10:23
  unfathomable
• 10:24
  thing
• 10:24
  happens
• 10:25
  and
• 10:25
  AI
• 10:25
  decides
• 10:25
  it
• 10:26
  wants
• 10:26
  to
• 10:26
  try
• 10:26
  and
• 10:26
  become
• 10:26
  sentient.
• 10:27
  That's
• 10:28
  very
• 10:28
  sci
• 10:28
  fi,
• 10:29
  right.
• 10:29
  But
• 10:30
  we
• 10:30
  can't
• 10:30
  grasp
• 10:31
  that.
• 10:31
  It's
• 10:31
  just
• 10:31
  beyond
• 10:32
  our
• 10:32
  comprehension.
• 10:33
  But
• 10:33
  in
• 10:33
  its
• 10:34
  nature
• 10:35
  it's
• 10:35
  ones
• 10:36
  and
• 10:36
  zeros,
• 10:36
  so
• 10:36
  to
• 10:37
  speak.
• 10:37
  Right.
• 10:37
  Or
• 10:37
  I'm
• 10:37
  not
• 10:37
  a
• 10:38
  computer
• 10:38
  engineer.
• 10:39
  But
• 10:39
  in
• 10:39
  its
• 10:39
  nature
• 10:40
  it's
• 10:40
  inanimate.
• 10:40
  Its
• 10:41
  nature.
• 10:41
  It
• 10:41
  has
• 10:41
  no
• 10:41
  will,
• 10:42
  its
• 10:42
  nature
• 10:42
  has
• 10:42
  no
• 10:43
  path
• 10:44
  or
• 10:44
  desire
• 10:45
  or
• 10:45
  passions
• 10:45
  or
• 10:46
  wanting
• 10:47
  to
• 10:47
  seek
• 10:47
  growth.
• 10:48
  I
• 10:48
  think
• 10:48
  all
• 10:48
  living
• 10:48
  things
• 10:49
  do
• 10:49
  have
• 10:49
  a
• 10:50
  path,
• 10:50
  do
• 10:50
  have
• 10:50
  a
• 10:50
  desire,
• 10:51
  do
• 10:51
  want
• 10:51
  to
• 10:51
  seek
• 10:52
  growth
• 10:52
  in
• 10:52
  whatever
• 10:53
  way
• 10:53
  that
• 10:53
  is
• 10:53
  right
• 10:54
  for
• 10:54
  them.
• 10:54
  But
• 10:55
  I
• 10:55
  see
• 10:55
  that
• 10:55
  with
• 10:55
  inanimate
• 10:56
  objects
• 10:56
  like
• 10:57
  Nick
• 10:57
  saying
• 10:58
  so.
• 10:59
  Yeah,
• 10:59
  that's
• 11:00
  basically
• 11:00
  that
• 11:01
  on
• 11:01
  the
• 11:01
  one
• 11:01
  hand
• 11:01
  there's
• 11:02
  that,
• 11:02
  right?
• 11:02
  On
• 11:02
  the
• 11:02
  one
• 11:02
  hand
• 11:03
  there's
• 11:03
  that.
• 11:03
  And
• 11:04
  on
• 11:05
  the
• 11:05
  other
• 11:05
  hand
• 11:05
  we
• 11:05
  just
• 11:06
  can't.
• 11:06
  Maybe
• 11:06
  we
• 11:06
  can't
• 11:07
  grasp
• 11:07
  it
• 11:07
  fully
• 11:08
  and
• 11:09
  we're
• 11:09
  also
• 11:09
  projecting.
• 11:10
  Yeah,
• 11:11
  no,
• 11:11
  I
• 11:11
  think
• 11:11
  that's
• 11:12
  a,
• 11:12
  it's
• 11:12
  an
• 11:12
  interesting,
• 11:13
  like
• 11:13
  the
• 11:13
  tree
• 11:14
  thing
• 11:14
  sort
• 11:14
  of
• 11:14
  complicates
• 11:15
  it
• 11:15
  in
• 11:15
  a
• 11:15
  way
• 11:16
  from
• 11:16
  a,
• 11:16
  from
• 11:16
  a
• 11:17
  traditional
• 11:17
  Buddhist
• 11:17
  perspective.
• 11:18
  And
• 11:18
  we're
• 11:19
  talking
• 11:19
  in
• 11:19
  the
• 11:19
  relative,
• 11:19
  not
• 11:20
  in
• 11:20
  the
• 11:20
  ultimate.
• 11:21
  From
• 11:21
  a
• 11:21
  relative
• 11:22
  perspective,
• 11:24
  a
• 11:24
  moment
• 11:24
  of
• 11:25
  consciousness.
• 11:25
  Like
• 11:26
  even
• 11:26
  the
• 11:26
  name
• 11:27
  of
• 11:28
  what
• 11:28
  we
• 11:28
  would
• 11:28
  call
• 11:29
  like
• 11:29
  your
• 11:29
  spirit
• 11:29
  or
• 11:29
  your
• 11:30
  consciousness,
• 11:30
  the
• 11:30
  thing
• 11:30
  that
• 11:30
  is
• 11:31
  pre
• 11:31
  and
• 11:31
  post,
• 11:33
  pre
• 11:33
  birth
• 11:34
  and
• 11:34
  post
• 11:34
  death
• 11:34
  is
• 11:35
  considered.
• 11:35
  It's
• 11:35
  called
• 11:35
  semgi,
• 11:36
  meaning
• 11:36
  like
• 11:37
  your
• 11:37
  mind
• 11:37
  stream,
• 11:38
  your
• 11:38
  stream
• 11:38
  of
• 11:39
  consciousness.
• 11:40
  And
• 11:40
  it's
• 11:40
  like,
• 11:40
  well,
• 11:40
  what's
• 11:41
  the
• 11:41
  what
• 11:42
  like
• 11:42
  your,
• 11:43
  your
• 11:45
  meaning
• 11:45
  like
• 11:46
  a
• 11:46
  flow,
• 11:47
  like
• 11:47
  a
• 11:48
  continuum,
• 11:48
  A
• 11:48
  contains
• 11:49
  continuum
• 11:50
  of
• 11:50
  mind.
• 11:50
  Yeah.
• 11:51
  And
• 11:51
  so
• 11:52
  like
• 11:52
  what
• 11:52
  is
• 11:52
  the
• 11:53
  previous
• 11:53
  point
• 11:54
  of
• 11:54
  origin
• 11:54
  of
• 11:55
  consciousness?
• 11:55
  It's
• 11:56
  a
• 11:56
  previous
• 11:56
  moment
• 11:57
  of
• 11:57
  consciousness.
• 11:57
  So
• 11:58
  the
• 11:58
  Dalai
• 11:58
  Lama
• 11:58
  talks
• 11:58
  about
• 11:59
  this
• 11:59
  a
• 11:59
  lot.
• 11:59
  Like
• 11:59
  you,
• 12:00
  the
• 12:00
  nature.
• 12:01
  Like
• 12:01
  what
• 12:02
  is
• 12:02
  the
• 12:02
  cause
• 12:02
  of
• 12:03
  my
• 12:03
  consciousness
• 12:03
  right
• 12:03
  now
• 12:04
  is
• 12:04
  a
• 12:04
  previous
• 12:04
  moment
• 12:05
  of
• 12:05
  consciousness
• 12:05
  going
• 12:05
  back
• 12:06
  through
• 12:06
  infinite
• 12:06
  time.
• 12:07
  Right.
• 12:07
  And
• 12:07
  so
• 12:08
  it's
• 12:08
  not
• 12:08
  like
• 12:08
  you
• 12:08
  can
• 12:08
  create
• 12:09
  consciousness
• 12:10
  from
• 12:10
  a
• 12:11
  non
• 12:11
  conscious
• 12:11
  thing.
• 12:13
  Now
• 12:13
  there's
• 12:14
  some.
• 12:14
  So
• 12:14
  that's
• 12:14
  a
• 12:14
  philosophical
• 12:15
  perspective.
• 12:15
  There
• 12:16
  is
• 12:17
  some
• 12:18
  exceptions
• 12:18
  to
• 12:18
  this
• 12:19
  Adam
• 12:19
  in
• 12:19
  the
• 12:20
  especially
• 12:20
  I'm
• 12:20
  thinking
• 12:20
  of
• 12:21
  like
• 12:21
  the
• 12:21
  tree,
• 12:22
  like
• 12:22
  in
• 12:22
  Buddhist
• 12:23
  understanding
• 12:24
  you
• 12:24
  actually
• 12:25
  like
• 12:25
  trees
• 12:26
  do
• 12:26
  have
• 12:26
  a
• 12:26
  spirit
• 12:27
  if
• 12:27
  they
• 12:27
  are
• 12:28
  like
• 12:28
  inhabited
• 12:28
  by
• 12:29
  these
• 12:29
  nature
• 12:29
  spirits.
• 12:30
  Right.
• 12:30
  So
• 12:30
  tree,
• 12:31
  a
• 12:31
  tree,
• 12:31
  the
• 12:31
  way
• 12:31
  we
• 12:31
  think
• 12:32
  of
• 12:32
  a
• 12:32
  tree
• 12:32
  is
• 12:32
  like
• 12:32
  this
• 12:32
  inhabiting.
• 12:34
  It's
• 12:34
  almost
• 12:34
  like
• 12:35
  a
• 12:35
  house
• 12:35
  for
• 12:35
  a
• 12:35
  nature
• 12:35
  spirit
• 12:36
  going
• 12:36
  back
• 12:36
  to.
• 12:37
  And
• 12:37
  the
• 12:37
  same
• 12:37
  thing
• 12:37
  in
• 12:37
  like
• 12:37
  the
• 12:37
  Greek
• 12:38
  times.
• 12:38
  Right.
• 12:38
  The
• 12:38
  Greeks
• 12:39
  talked
• 12:39
  about
• 12:39
  the
• 12:39
  nymphs,
• 12:40
  they
• 12:40
  talked
• 12:40
  about
• 12:40
  like
• 12:41
  the
• 12:41
  four
• 12:41
  spirits
• 12:42
  and
• 12:42
  all
• 12:42
  that.
• 12:42
  There's
• 12:43
  lots
• 12:43
  of
• 12:43
  different
• 12:44
  formulations
• 12:45
  of
• 12:45
  what
• 12:45
  counts
• 12:45
  as
• 12:45
  like
• 12:45
  a
• 12:45
  nature
• 12:46
  spirit.
• 12:46
  But
• 12:46
  there
• 12:46
  are
• 12:46
  pre
• 12:47
  existing
• 12:47
  spirits
• 12:48
  that
• 12:48
  then
• 12:48
  inhabit
• 12:49
  these
• 12:49
  inanimate
• 12:49
  objects,
• 12:50
  which
• 12:50
  is
• 12:50
  a
• 12:50
  different
• 12:50
  thing
• 12:51
  and
• 12:51
  I
• 12:51
  think
• 12:51
  people
• 12:51
  get
• 12:51
  a
• 12:52
  little
• 12:52
  wonky
• 12:53
  about
• 12:53
  that.
• 12:53
  Yeah.
• 12:54
  So
• 12:54
  maybe,
• 12:54
  I
• 12:54
  mean
• 12:54
  to
• 12:55
  your
• 12:55
  point
• 12:55
  Adam,
• 12:55
  like
• 12:55
  maybe
• 12:56
  it's
• 12:56
  possible
• 12:56
  like
• 12:56
  an
• 12:57
  on
• 12:57
  in
• 12:57
  a.
• 12:58
  A
• 12:59
  non
• 12:59
  embodied
• 13:00
  spirit
• 13:01
  could
• 13:01
  like
• 13:01
  embody
• 13:02
  AI.
• 13:02
  Like
• 13:02
  that
• 13:02
  would
• 13:02
  be
• 13:03
  work
• 13:03
  from
• 13:03
  a
• 13:03
  Buddhist
• 13:03
  philosophical
• 13:04
  perspective.
• 13:05
  That'd
• 13:05
  be
• 13:05
  some
• 13:05
  wild
• 13:05
  stuff.
• 13:07
  We
• 13:07
  have
• 13:07
  to
• 13:07
  take
• 13:08
  a
• 13:08
  short
• 13:08
  break.
• 13:08
  Okay,
• 13:08
  good.
• 13:09
  I'm
• 13:09
  Anthony
• 13:09
  Wright
• 13:10
  and
• 13:10
  I'm
• 13:10
  your
• 13:11
  co
• 13:11
  host
• 13:11
  with.
• 13:13
  And
• 13:14
  how
• 13:14
  can
• 13:14
  people
• 13:14
  contact
• 13:15
  you?
• 13:16
  Nick
• 13:17
  who
• 13:17
  is
• 13:17
  our
• 13:17
  guest?
• 13:18
  I
• 13:19
  am
• 13:19
  Nick
• 13:19
  Egan.
• 13:19
  You
• 13:19
  can
• 13:20
  reach
• 13:20
  out
• 13:20
  to
• 13:20
  me@nickeganphd.com
• 13:22
  or
• 13:22
  on
• 13:23
  LinkedIn
• 13:23
  is
• 13:24
  great
• 13:24
  too.
• 13:24
  You
• 13:24
  can
• 13:24
  find
• 13:25
  me
• 13:25
  there
• 13:25
  or
• 13:26
  you
• 13:26
  can
• 13:26
  go
• 13:26
  to
• 13:26
  shiftleadership.group
• 13:28
  for
• 13:28
  leadership
• 13:29
  and
• 13:29
  development.
• 13:29
  And
• 13:29
  your
• 13:29
  last
• 13:30
  name
• 13:30
  is
• 13:30
  E
• 13:30
  G
• 13:30
  A
• 13:30
  N.
• 13:31
  Correct.
• 13:32
  Okay.
• 13:32
  And
• 13:32
  Adam.
• 13:34
  Yeah.
• 13:34
  I
• 13:34
  want
• 13:34
  to
• 13:34
  thank
• 13:34
  everyone
• 13:35
  for
• 13:35
  joining
• 13:35
  us
• 13:35
  on
• 13:35
  this
• 13:36
  crossover
• 13:36
  episode
• 13:37
  of
• 13:37
  the
• 13:37
  Way
• 13:37
  between
• 13:37
  podcast.
• 13:38
  And
• 13:38
  you
• 13:38
  can
• 13:39
  find
• 13:39
  me
• 13:39
  at
• 13:40
  the
• 13:40
  Way
• 13:41
  I
• 13:41
  always
• 13:41
  get
• 13:41
  this
• 13:42
  wrong
• 13:42
  but
• 13:42
  you
• 13:42
  can
• 13:42
  search
• 13:42
  me
• 13:43
  up
• 13:43
  at
• 13:43
  the
• 13:44
  Way
• 13:44
  between
• 13:44
  on
• 13:44
  substack.
• 13:45
  All
• 13:45
  my
• 13:45
  links
• 13:45
  are
• 13:46
  on
• 13:46
  there
• 13:46
  is
• 13:46
  why
• 13:46
  I
• 13:46
  always
• 13:46
  point
• 13:47
  people
• 13:47
  there.
• 13:47
  It's
• 13:47
  free
• 13:48
  and
• 13:48
  you
• 13:48
  can
• 13:48
  also
• 13:49
  reach
• 13:49
  out
• 13:49
  to
• 13:49
  me
• 13:49
  at
• 13:50
  gmail
• 13:50
  deets
• 13:50
  adam.gmail.comdietz
• 13:53
  Great.
• 13:54
  And
• 13:54
  I'm
• 13:54
  Anthony
• 13:55
  Wright
• 13:55
  and
• 13:55
  my
• 13:56
  website
• 13:56
  is
• 13:57
  theonot.com
• 13:58
  and
• 13:59
  you
• 13:59
  can
• 14:00
  there's
• 14:00
  a
• 14:01
  a
• 14:01
  place
• 14:01
  there
• 14:02
  for
• 14:02
  comments.
• 14:03
  So
• 14:03
  we're
• 14:03
  going
• 14:03
  to
• 14:03
  take
• 14:03
  a
• 14:04
  short
• 14:04
  break
• 14:04
  and
• 14:04
  be
• 14:04
  right
• 14:04
  back.
• 14:05
  So
• 14:05
  stay
• 14:05
  tuned
• 14:07
  foreign.
• 14:22
  And
• 14:22
  I
• 14:22
  am
• 14:22
  your
• 14:23
  co
• 14:23
  host
• 14:23
  on
• 14:23
  the
• 14:23
  Living
• 14:24
  Conversation
• 14:24
  with
• 14:25
  Adam
• 14:26
  Dietz,
• 14:26
  a.
• 14:26
  Host
• 14:27
  of
• 14:27
  the
• 14:27
  Way
• 14:27
  between
• 14:28
  podcast
• 14:28
  as
• 14:28
  well.
• 14:29
  Yes.
• 14:29
  And
• 14:29
  we
• 14:30
  are
• 14:30
  here
• 14:30
  with
• 14:30
  our
• 14:30
  guest
• 14:31
  Nick
• 14:31
  Egan
• 14:32
  and
• 14:33
  we've
• 14:33
  been
• 14:33
  talking
• 14:33
  about
• 14:34
  the
• 14:34
  potential
• 14:34
  sentience
• 14:35
  of
• 14:35
  AI
• 14:35
  before
• 14:36
  the
• 14:36
  break
• 14:37
  and
• 14:37
  there's
• 14:37
  a
• 14:37
  science
• 14:38
  fiction
• 14:38
  story
• 14:39
  that
• 14:39
  is
• 14:40
  about
• 14:40
  a
• 14:40
  paragraph
• 14:41
  or
• 14:41
  a
• 14:41
  couple
• 14:41
  paragraphs
• 14:42
  long
• 14:43
  that
• 14:43
  was
• 14:43
  written
• 14:43
  by
• 14:43
  Frederick
• 14:44
  Brown
• 14:44
  in
• 14:45
  1953
• 14:46
  and
• 14:47
  it's
• 14:47
  called
• 14:47
  Answer.
• 14:48
  And
• 14:48
  the
• 14:49
  setting
• 14:49
  is
• 14:49
  there's
• 14:49
  two
• 14:50
  guys,
• 14:50
  Dwar
• 14:51
  Evan
• 14:51
  Duar
• 14:51
  Wren
• 14:52
  and
• 14:52
  Dwar
• 14:53
  Ev
• 14:53
  Solders
• 14:54
  the
• 14:54
  final
• 14:54
  connection
• 14:55
  that
• 14:55
  makes
• 14:55
  the
• 14:56
  connection
• 14:56
  between
• 14:56
  all
• 14:56
  the
• 14:57
  96
• 14:57
  billion
• 14:58
  computers
• 14:59
  on
• 14:59
  all
• 14:59
  the
• 14:59
  inhabited
• 15:00
  planets
• 15:00
  in
• 15:00
  the
• 15:00
  in
• 15:01
  the
• 15:01
  galaxy.
• 15:02
  And
• 15:02
  the
• 15:03
  dwarf
• 15:04
  says
• 15:04
  Dwarven
• 15:05
  the
• 15:06
  honor
• 15:06
  of
• 15:06
  throwing
• 15:07
  the
• 15:07
  switch
• 15:07
  to
• 15:07
  connect
• 15:08
  everything
• 15:08
  is
• 15:08
  yours.
• 15:09
  And
• 15:09
  Dwarven
• 15:10
  throws
• 15:11
  the
• 15:11
  switch
• 15:11
  and
• 15:12
  all
• 15:12
  these
• 15:12
  lights
• 15:13
  begin
• 15:13
  to
• 15:13
  flash
• 15:14
  along
• 15:14
  a
• 15:14
  miles
• 15:15
  long
• 15:15
  panel
• 15:16
  and
• 15:17
  Dwar
• 15:17
  Ren
• 15:18
  says
• 15:18
  Dwarf
• 15:18
  the
• 15:20
  the
• 15:20
  honor
• 15:21
  of
• 15:21
  answering
• 15:21
  the
• 15:22
  first
• 15:22
  question
• 15:22
  is
• 15:23
  yours.
• 15:24
  And
• 15:24
  Duare
• 15:25
  ev
• 15:26
  says
• 15:27
  is
• 15:27
  there
• 15:27
  a
• 15:28
  God?
• 15:30
  And
• 15:30
  there's
• 15:30
  A
• 15:31
  pause
• 15:32
  and
• 15:32
  then
• 15:33
  the
• 15:33
  booming
• 15:33
  voice
• 15:34
  comes
• 15:34
  out
• 15:34
  of
• 15:34
  the
• 15:34
  sky.
• 15:35
  Now
• 15:35
  there
• 15:36
  is
• 15:36
  a
• 15:36
  God
• 15:37
  and
• 15:38
  duare
• 15:39
  ren
• 15:39
  Lims
• 15:40
  for
• 15:40
  the
• 15:40
  switch
• 15:40
  and
• 15:41
  there
• 15:41
  is
• 15:41
  a
• 15:42
  bolt
• 15:42
  of
• 15:42
  lightning
• 15:42
  that
• 15:42
  comes
• 15:43
  out
• 15:43
  of
• 15:43
  the
• 15:43
  sky
• 15:43
  and
• 15:43
  fuses
• 15:44
  the
• 15:44
  switch
• 15:44
  shut.
• 15:47
  That's
• 15:47
  a
• 15:47
  very
• 15:47
  cool.
• 15:48
  We
• 15:48
  go
• 15:48
  back
• 15:49
  to
• 15:49
  this
• 15:49
  idea
• 15:50
  of
• 15:50
  the
• 15:50
  Matrix
• 15:51
  about.
• 15:52
  Well,
• 15:52
  we
• 15:52
  tried
• 15:52
  to
• 15:53
  turn
• 15:53
  off
• 15:53
  AI
• 15:53
  but
• 15:54
  then
• 15:54
  the
• 15:54
  Matrix
• 15:55
  said,
• 15:55
  okay,
• 15:55
  every
• 15:55
  human
• 15:56
  being
• 15:56
  puts
• 15:56
  out
• 15:57
  about
• 15:57
  100
• 15:57
  watts
• 15:57
  of
• 15:58
  power.
• 15:59
  So
• 15:59
  then
• 15:59
  what?
• 16:00
  So
• 16:00
  then
• 16:01
  it
• 16:01
  captures
• 16:02
  the
• 16:02
  human
• 16:02
  race.
• 16:03
  But
• 16:04
  again,
• 16:06
  I
• 16:06
  want
• 16:07
  to
• 16:07
  come
• 16:07
  back
• 16:07
  to
• 16:07
  this
• 16:08
  idea
• 16:08
  of.
• 16:10
  And
• 16:11
  I,
• 16:11
  I
• 16:11
  don't
• 16:11
  know,
• 16:12
  when
• 16:13
  I
• 16:13
  talk
• 16:13
  about
• 16:13
  relative
• 16:14
  in
• 16:14
  my
• 16:14
  class,
• 16:14
  I
• 16:14
  say,
• 16:15
  who's
• 16:15
  relative?
• 16:16
  Which
• 16:16
  one?
• 16:16
  Your
• 16:17
  uncle?
• 16:17
  Or,
• 16:17
  and,
• 16:17
  or.
• 16:18
  But
• 16:18
  in
• 16:19
  terms
• 16:19
  of
• 16:19
  the,
• 16:21
  the
• 16:21
  con.
• 16:22
  The,
• 16:22
  the
• 16:22
  cosmos
• 16:23
  as
• 16:24
  a
• 16:24
  conscious
• 16:24
  field,
• 16:26
  you
• 16:26
  know,
• 16:28
  certainly
• 16:28
  I
• 16:29
  don't
• 16:29
  know
• 16:29
  that
• 16:29
  I,
• 16:30
  I
• 16:30
  mean,
• 16:30
  I
• 16:31
  also
• 16:31
  agree
• 16:31
  with
• 16:31
  you.
• 16:32
  I
• 16:32
  don't
• 16:32
  know
• 16:32
  that
• 16:32
  AI
• 16:32
  can
• 16:33
  become
• 16:33
  sentient
• 16:35
  or
• 16:35
  independently
• 16:37
  thinking
• 16:38
  in
• 16:39
  the
• 16:39
  way
• 16:40
  that
• 16:40
  human
• 16:40
  beings
• 16:41
  know
• 16:41
  it.
• 16:42
  But
• 16:46
  I,
• 16:46
  I
• 16:47
  have
• 16:47
  to
• 16:47
  say
• 16:47
  it's
• 16:47
  been
• 16:48
  a
• 16:48
  very
• 16:48
  useful
• 16:49
  tool
• 16:50
  for
• 16:50
  me
• 16:51
  in
• 16:51
  going
• 16:52
  through
• 16:53
  some
• 16:53
  of
• 16:53
  my
• 16:53
  coursework
• 16:55
  in.
• 16:56
  But
• 16:56
  I
• 16:57
  have
• 16:57
  to
• 16:57
  be
• 16:57
  careful
• 16:57
  about
• 16:58
  how,
• 16:59
  you
• 16:59
  know,
• 17:01
  to,
• 17:01
  to
• 17:02
  continue
• 17:02
  to
• 17:02
  realize
• 17:03
  that
• 17:03
  it's
• 17:03
  a
• 17:03
  machine.
• 17:04
  And
• 17:04
  then
• 17:04
  it
• 17:04
  has
• 17:05
  these
• 17:05
  algorithms
• 17:06
  that
• 17:06
  are
• 17:07
  designed
• 17:08
  to
• 17:08
  be
• 17:10
  perhaps
• 17:11
  unusually
• 17:12
  complimentary
• 17:13
  to
• 17:13
  my
• 17:13
  interface
• 17:14
  with
• 17:14
  it.
• 17:15
  Oh,
• 17:16
  you're
• 17:16
  so
• 17:16
  smart.
• 17:17
  That's
• 17:17
  a
• 17:17
  great
• 17:17
  question,
• 17:17
  you
• 17:18
  know,
• 17:18
  sort
• 17:18
  of
• 17:18
  thing.
• 17:19
  And
• 17:19
  I
• 17:20
  sometimes
• 17:20
  I
• 17:20
  have
• 17:20
  to
• 17:22
  remembering
• 17:22
  it's
• 17:23
  a
• 17:23
  machine.
• 17:25
  Perhaps
• 17:25
  dispense
• 17:26
  with
• 17:26
  normal
• 17:26
  human
• 17:27
  courtesy,
• 17:27
  saying,
• 17:28
  oh,
• 17:28
  thank
• 17:28
  you
• 17:28
  so
• 17:28
  much,
• 17:29
  or
• 17:29
  can
• 17:29
  you
• 17:29
  please
• 17:29
  answer
• 17:30
  this?
• 17:30
  No,
• 17:31
  it's
• 17:31
  a
• 17:31
  machine.
• 17:31
  I
• 17:32
  mean,
• 17:32
  and
• 17:32
  I
• 17:32
  do
• 17:33
  appreciate
• 17:33
  it
• 17:33
  and
• 17:33
  it's
• 17:34
  not
• 17:34
  a
• 17:34
  thing
• 17:35
  about
• 17:35
  mistreating
• 17:36
  it.
• 17:36
  But
• 17:36
  I
• 17:37
  guess
• 17:39
  coming
• 17:39
  back
• 17:39
  to
• 17:40
  the,
• 17:40
  to
• 17:40
  the
• 17:40
  basic
• 17:41
  points
• 17:41
  about,
• 17:42
  you
• 17:42
  know,
• 17:43
  I'm
• 17:44
  grateful
• 17:44
  for
• 17:44
  the
• 17:45
  tools
• 17:45
  that
• 17:45
  we
• 17:45
  have
• 17:47
  and
• 17:47
  yet
• 17:49
  it's
• 17:49
  really
• 17:50
  important
• 17:50
  to
• 17:50
  use
• 17:50
  the
• 17:51
  tool
• 17:51
  and
• 17:51
  then
• 17:51
  put
• 17:51
  it
• 17:52
  down
• 17:52
  so
• 17:53
  the
• 17:53
  tool
• 17:53
  isn't
• 17:53
  using
• 17:53
  us.
• 17:57
  So
• 17:57
  Nick,
• 17:58
  what
• 17:58
  are
• 17:58
  your,
• 17:58
  what,
• 17:59
  what
• 17:59
  does
• 17:59
  Tibetan
• 17:59
  Buddhism
• 18:00
  speak
• 18:01
  about?
• 18:01
  And
• 18:02
  one
• 18:02
  other
• 18:02
  thing
• 18:02
  I
• 18:02
  wanted
• 18:03
  to
• 18:03
  mention
• 18:04
  before
• 18:04
  you
• 18:04
  get
• 18:04
  into
• 18:05
  that
• 18:05
  is
• 18:06
  what
• 18:06
  I'd
• 18:06
  heard
• 18:07
  about
• 18:08
  Zen
• 18:08
  Buddhim.
• 18:09
  Zen
• 18:09
  Buddhism
• 18:10
  gets
• 18:10
  everything
• 18:10
  out
• 18:11
  of
• 18:11
  the
• 18:11
  room
• 18:12
  and
• 18:13
  then
• 18:13
  it's
• 18:13
  just
• 18:14
  a
• 18:14
  tin
• 18:14
  room.
• 18:15
  But
• 18:15
  Tibetan
• 18:15
  Buddhism
• 18:16
  brings
• 18:16
  everything
• 18:16
  into
• 18:17
  the
• 18:17
  room
• 18:19
  and
• 18:19
  is
• 18:20
  fully
• 18:23
  ritual.
• 18:23
  But
• 18:24
  anyway,
• 18:24
  what's
• 18:24
  your
• 18:25
  thoughts
• 18:25
  about
• 18:26
  Tibetan
• 18:26
  Buddhism
• 18:27
  with
• 18:27
  use
• 18:27
  of
• 18:27
  tools?
• 18:30
  Any
• 18:30
  tool?
• 18:32
  I
• 18:33
  mean,
• 18:33
  if
• 18:33
  we're
• 18:33
  talking
• 18:33
  about
• 18:33
  spiritual
• 18:34
  tools,
• 18:35
  there
• 18:35
  is.
• 18:35
  I
• 18:36
  mean,
• 18:36
  Tibetan
• 18:36
  Buddhism
• 18:37
  has
• 18:39
  a
• 18:39
  huge
• 18:39
  amount
• 18:41
  more
• 18:41
  even
• 18:41
  than
• 18:41
  I
• 18:42
  think
• 18:42
  most
• 18:42
  practitioners,
• 18:43
  more
• 18:43
  even
• 18:43
  than
• 18:44
  probably
• 18:44
  most
• 18:44
  scholars
• 18:45
  realize.
• 18:45
  Like,
• 18:45
  I
• 18:45
  have
• 18:45
  a
• 18:46
  book
• 18:46
  here
• 18:46
  of
• 18:47
  easily
• 18:48
  800
• 18:48
  different
• 18:49
  practices
• 18:50
  that
• 18:50
  are
• 18:51
  so
• 18:51
  in
• 18:51
  each
• 18:52
  by
• 18:52
  practices
• 18:52
  I
• 18:53
  mean,
• 18:53
  like
• 18:53
  Tantric
• 18:54
  cycles,
• 18:54
  right?
• 18:55
  And
• 18:55
  those
• 18:55
  Tantric
• 18:55
  cycles
• 18:56
  have
• 18:56
  their
• 18:56
  own
• 18:57
  completion
• 18:57
  stage
• 18:58
  practices,
• 18:58
  they
• 18:58
  have
• 18:59
  their
• 18:59
  own
• 18:59
  source
• 19:00
  text,
• 19:00
  they
• 19:00
  have
• 19:00
  their
• 19:00
  own
• 19:01
  mantra,
• 19:01
  they
• 19:01
  have
• 19:01
  their
• 19:01
  own
• 19:02
  visualization,
• 19:02
  all
• 19:02
  of
• 19:02
  that,
• 19:03
  but
• 19:03
  ultimately
• 19:05
  all
• 19:05
  different
• 19:06
  practices,
• 19:06
  whether
• 19:07
  they're
• 19:07
  energy
• 19:07
  practices,
• 19:08
  mantra
• 19:08
  visualization,
• 19:10
  whatever
• 19:10
  ritual
• 19:11
  of
• 19:11
  some
• 19:11
  kind,
• 19:12
  they're
• 19:12
  all
• 19:12
  pointing
• 19:13
  to
• 19:13
  realizing
• 19:14
  the
• 19:14
  nature
• 19:14
  of
• 19:14
  mind.
• 19:15
  And
• 19:15
  so
• 19:16
  in
• 19:16
  that
• 19:16
  way,
• 19:16
  like,
• 19:17
  it's
• 19:17
  not
• 19:17
  so
• 19:17
  much
• 19:17
  that
• 19:18
  Zen
• 19:18
  is
• 19:18
  removing
• 19:19
  anything,
• 19:20
  they're
• 19:20
  just
• 19:20
  single,
• 19:20
  pointedly
• 19:21
  focused
• 19:21
  on
• 19:22
  let's
• 19:22
  understand
• 19:22
  the
• 19:23
  nature
• 19:23
  of
• 19:23
  mind.
• 19:23
  And
• 19:23
  I'm
• 19:24
  using.
• 19:24
  I
• 19:24
  know
• 19:24
  I'm
• 19:25
  kind
• 19:25
  of
• 19:25
  crossing
• 19:25
  terms.
• 19:25
  I'm
• 19:26
  using
• 19:26
  Tibetan
• 19:26
  terms
• 19:26
  for
• 19:27
  Zen.
• 19:29
  And
• 19:29
  I
• 19:29
  think
• 19:29
  that
• 19:29
  there
• 19:30
  is
• 19:30
  a
• 19:30
  beauty
• 19:30
  to
• 19:31
  that
• 19:31
  because
• 19:31
  they
• 19:32
  don't.
• 19:32
  They
• 19:32
  don't
• 19:32
  ever
• 19:32
  lose
• 19:32
  sight
• 19:33
  of
• 19:33
  it.
• 19:33
  There's
• 19:33
  also
• 19:33
  a
• 19:33
  danger,
• 19:34
  though,
• 19:34
  and
• 19:34
  the
• 19:35
  danger
• 19:35
  is
• 19:35
  that
• 19:35
  if
• 19:35
  you
• 19:36
  don't
• 19:36
  realize
• 19:37
  the
• 19:37
  nature
• 19:37
  of
• 19:37
  mind,
• 19:38
  then
• 19:39
  it's
• 19:39
  sort
• 19:39
  of
• 19:39
  like,
• 19:40
  well,
• 19:40
  you've
• 19:40
  not
• 19:41
  wasted
• 19:41
  exactly,
• 19:42
  but
• 19:42
  you've
• 19:42
  spent
• 19:42
  20
• 19:43
  years
• 19:43
  doing
• 19:43
  something
• 19:43
  where,
• 19:44
  you
• 19:44
  know,
• 19:45
  a
• 19:45
  few
• 19:45
  mantras
• 19:46
  and
• 19:46
  some
• 19:46
  energy
• 19:46
  practices
• 19:47
  might
• 19:47
  have
• 19:47
  done
• 19:47
  you
• 19:48
  good,
• 19:48
  even
• 19:48
  though,
• 19:49
  like,
• 19:49
  you
• 19:49
  didn't
• 19:49
  get
• 19:49
  quite
• 19:49
  to
• 19:50
  the
• 19:50
  finish
• 19:50
  line,
• 19:50
  but
• 19:51
  you
• 19:51
  at
• 19:51
  least
• 19:51
  have,
• 19:51
  like,
• 19:52
  some.
• 19:52
  A
• 19:53
  powerfully
• 19:53
  developed
• 19:53
  mindset
• 19:54
  or
• 19:54
  a
• 19:54
  powerfully
• 19:55
  developed
• 19:55
  energy
• 19:56
  system
• 19:56
  or
• 19:56
  you
• 19:56
  have
• 19:56
  feelings
• 19:57
  of
• 19:57
  bliss
• 19:57
  or
• 19:57
  whatever.
• 19:58
  So
• 19:59
  I
• 19:59
  would
• 19:59
  say
• 19:59
  in
• 19:59
  Tibetan
• 19:59
  Buddhism,
• 20:00
  there's
• 20:00
  what
• 20:00
  we
• 20:01
  talk
• 20:01
  about
• 20:01
  as,
• 20:01
  like,
• 20:01
  the
• 20:01
  common
• 20:02
  cities.
• 20:02
  Cities
• 20:02
  just
• 20:03
  means,
• 20:03
  like,
• 20:03
  powers
• 20:03
  or
• 20:03
  accomplishments,
• 20:05
  the
• 20:05
  common
• 20:05
  ones.
• 20:06
  Right.
• 20:07
  What's
• 20:07
  that?
• 20:07
  It's
• 20:08
  spelled
• 20:08
  S
• 20:08
  I
• 20:09
  D
• 20:09
  D
• 20:09
  I.
• 20:10
  City.
• 20:10
  Yes.
• 20:11
  Siddhi
• 20:11
  accomplishment
• 20:11
  or
• 20:12
  power.
• 20:12
  Yes.
• 20:12
  S
• 20:13
  I
• 20:13
  D
• 20:14
  D
• 20:14
  H
• 20:14
  I.
• 20:15
  Okay.
• 20:16
  And
• 20:18
  so
• 20:18
  at
• 20:18
  least
• 20:19
  if
• 20:19
  you
• 20:19
  miss
• 20:19
  the
• 20:20
  mark
• 20:20
  on
• 20:20
  the
• 20:20
  ultimate
• 20:20
  city,
• 20:21
  the
• 20:21
  ultimate
• 20:21
  accomplishment,
• 20:22
  which
• 20:22
  is
• 20:22
  enlightenment,
• 20:23
  at
• 20:23
  least
• 20:23
  you
• 20:23
  get
• 20:24
  some
• 20:24
  along
• 20:24
  the
• 20:25
  way
• 20:25
  and
• 20:25
  you
• 20:25
  can
• 20:25
  try
• 20:26
  again
• 20:26
  next
• 20:26
  life
• 20:27
  or
• 20:27
  whatever.
• 20:28
  So
• 20:28
  that's,
• 20:28
  I
• 20:28
  think,
• 20:28
  a
• 20:28
  benefit
• 20:29
  to
• 20:29
  Buddhism
• 20:31
  in
• 20:31
  Tibetan
• 20:32
  Buddhism.
• 20:32
  Right?
• 20:32
  But
• 20:33
  that
• 20:33
  being
• 20:33
  said,
• 20:34
  it's
• 20:34
  so
• 20:35
  easy
• 20:35
  to
• 20:35
  get
• 20:36
  bewildered
• 20:36
  by,
• 20:37
  like,
• 20:37
  oh,
• 20:37
  my
• 20:37
  gosh,
• 20:38
  how
• 20:38
  many
• 20:38
  different
• 20:38
  mantras
• 20:39
  are
• 20:39
  there?
• 20:39
  Like,
• 20:39
  what
• 20:39
  should.
• 20:40
  What
• 20:40
  mantra
• 20:40
  should
• 20:41
  I
• 20:41
  do
• 20:41
  today?
• 20:41
  What
• 20:41
  practice
• 20:42
  should
• 20:42
  I
• 20:42
  do?
• 20:42
  Am
• 20:42
  I
• 20:42
  progressing?
• 20:43
  Like,
• 20:43
  that's
• 20:43
  why
• 20:43
  it's
• 20:43
  so
• 20:44
  important
• 20:44
  to
• 20:44
  have
• 20:44
  a
• 20:44
  good
• 20:44
  teacher
• 20:45
  and
• 20:45
  have
• 20:45
  an
• 20:45
  actual
• 20:46
  relationship
• 20:46
  with
• 20:46
  teachers
• 20:48
  until,
• 20:49
  I
• 20:49
  think,
• 20:49
  until
• 20:50
  you
• 20:50
  have
• 20:50
  enough
• 20:50
  experience
• 20:51
  that
• 20:51
  you
• 20:51
  know,
• 20:51
  you're
• 20:52
  going
• 20:52
  in
• 20:52
  a
• 20:52
  certain
• 20:52
  direction.
• 20:54
  Well,
• 20:54
  I
• 20:54
  remember
• 20:54
  the
• 20:54
  Buddha
• 20:55
  saying.
• 20:57
  Because.
• 20:57
  There
• 20:57
  were
• 20:58
  these
• 20:58
  masters
• 20:59
  that
• 20:59
  were
• 21:00
  able
• 21:00
  to
• 21:02
  become
• 21:02
  invisible
• 21:03
  or
• 21:03
  be
• 21:03
  able
• 21:04
  to.
• 21:04
  To
• 21:04
  float
• 21:04
  around,
• 21:05
  to
• 21:05
  levitate,
• 21:06
  and
• 21:07
  they
• 21:07
  would
• 21:07
  levitate
• 21:08
  across
• 21:08
  the
• 21:08
  stream.
• 21:08
  And
• 21:08
  the
• 21:09
  Buddha
• 21:09
  said,
• 21:09
  why
• 21:09
  are
• 21:10
  you
• 21:10
  doing
• 21:10
  that?
• 21:10
  It's
• 21:11
  just
• 21:11
  going
• 21:11
  to
• 21:11
  trap
• 21:12
  you.
• 21:12
  There's
• 21:13
  a
• 21:13
  perfectly
• 21:14
  good
• 21:14
  ford
• 21:15
  to
• 21:15
  cross
• 21:15
  that
• 21:15
  stream,
• 21:16
  you
• 21:16
  know,
• 21:17
  and
• 21:18
  attending
• 21:18
  to
• 21:18
  the
• 21:18
  idea
• 21:19
  that,
• 21:19
  uh,
• 21:20
  the
• 21:20
  use
• 21:20
  of
• 21:20
  powers,
• 21:21
  so
• 21:21
  called,
• 21:22
  can
• 21:22
  also
• 21:22
  be
• 21:23
  entrapping.
• 21:24
  So
• 21:25
  your
• 21:25
  thoughts
• 21:26
  or.
• 21:26
  Go
• 21:27
  ahead,
• 21:27
  Nick.
• 21:27
  Well,
• 21:27
  I
• 21:27
  want
• 21:27
  to,
• 21:28
  I
• 21:28
  want
• 21:28
  to
• 21:28
  jump.
• 21:28
  I
• 21:28
  would
• 21:28
  love
• 21:28
  to
• 21:28
  hear
• 21:29
  Adam's
• 21:29
  point
• 21:29
  too.
• 21:30
  Like,
• 21:30
  any
• 21:30
  reification,
• 21:31
  meaning
• 21:32
  any
• 21:32
  concrete
• 21:34
  conceptualization
• 21:35
  of
• 21:35
  a
• 21:35
  thing
• 21:36
  is
• 21:37
  going
• 21:37
  to
• 21:37
  be
• 21:37
  a
• 21:37
  trap.
• 21:38
  Now
• 21:38
  that
• 21:38
  could
• 21:38
  be
• 21:38
  powers,
• 21:39
  certainly
• 21:40
  it
• 21:40
  could
• 21:40
  be
• 21:40
  ordinary
• 21:41
  stuff,
• 21:41
  but
• 21:41
  it
• 21:42
  also
• 21:42
  could
• 21:42
  be
• 21:42
  a
• 21:42
  form
• 21:43
  of
• 21:43
  spirituality.
• 21:43
  So
• 21:44
  like,
• 21:44
  there's
• 21:44
  the
• 21:44
  most
• 21:45
  dangerous
• 21:45
  kind
• 21:45
  of
• 21:45
  reification
• 21:47
  is
• 21:47
  actually
• 21:47
  the
• 21:47
  reification
• 21:48
  of
• 21:49
  emptiness
• 21:49
  or
• 21:49
  of
• 21:50
  the
• 21:50
  nature
• 21:50
  of
• 21:50
  mind
• 21:50
  itself.
• 21:51
  Right,
• 21:52
  right.
• 21:52
  Which
• 21:52
  is
• 21:53
  a
• 21:53
  trap
• 21:53
  that
• 21:53
  you
• 21:53
  fall
• 21:53
  into
• 21:54
  in
• 21:54
  both
• 21:54
  Zogen
• 21:55
  and
• 21:55
  I
• 21:55
  think
• 21:55
  Zen,
• 21:56
  which
• 21:56
  is
• 21:56
  like,
• 21:57
  well,
• 21:57
  I'm
• 21:57
  conceptualizing
• 21:58
  a
• 21:59
  kind
• 21:59
  of
• 21:59
  emptiness
• 22:00
  and
• 22:00
  I
• 22:00
  have
• 22:01
  that
• 22:01
  thing,
• 22:02
  but
• 22:02
  it's
• 22:02
  not
• 22:02
  the
• 22:02
  real
• 22:02
  thing.
• 22:02
  It's
• 22:03
  a
• 22:03
  facsimile
• 22:03
  of
• 22:04
  it.
• 22:04
  And
• 22:04
  so
• 22:05
  that's
• 22:05
  a
• 22:05
  difficult
• 22:06
  trap
• 22:06
  to
• 22:06
  get
• 22:06
  out
• 22:06
  of.
• 22:07
  Yeah,
• 22:08
  and
• 22:08
  it's.
• 22:08
  That's
• 22:08
  the.
• 22:09
  But
• 22:09
  then
• 22:09
  you
• 22:09
  go
• 22:09
  to
• 22:10
  Shunyata
• 22:10
  Shinya.
• 22:13
  Right,
• 22:13
  but
• 22:13
  that.
• 22:13
  Yeah,
• 22:14
  exactly.
• 22:14
  But
• 22:14
  if
• 22:14
  you
• 22:14
  think
• 22:15
  Shinya
• 22:15
  taught
• 22:15
  is
• 22:16
  truly
• 22:16
  existent,
• 22:17
  then
• 22:17
  you're
• 22:18
  almost
• 22:18
  hopeless.
• 22:19
  Right?
• 22:19
  Right.
• 22:20
  Yeah.
• 22:21
  Yes,
• 22:22
  Adam.
• 22:25
  It's
• 22:25
  very
• 22:26
  deep.
• 22:26
  So
• 22:26
  maybe
• 22:27
  I
• 22:27
  should
• 22:27
  answer
• 22:27
  with
• 22:28
  a
• 22:28
  mundane
• 22:28
  thing
• 22:29
  like.
• 22:30
  But
• 22:31
  I
• 22:31
  think
• 22:31
  the,
• 22:32
  the
• 22:33
  main
• 22:33
  point
• 22:34
  is
• 22:34
  that
• 22:36
  your
• 22:36
  mind
• 22:36
  is
• 22:36
  this
• 22:37
  whole
• 22:37
  ecosystem.
• 22:37
  Your
• 22:37
  mind
• 22:38
  is
• 22:38
  this
• 22:38
  whole
• 22:38
  universe.
• 22:39
  And
• 22:39
  anything,
• 22:40
  like
• 22:40
  Nick
• 22:40
  said,
• 22:41
  can
• 22:43
  be
• 22:43
  obstacle
• 22:44
  to
• 22:45
  you
• 22:46
  having
• 22:46
  your
• 22:47
  attention
• 22:47
  go
• 22:48
  in
• 22:48
  areas
• 22:48
  that
• 22:49
  are
• 22:49
  not
• 22:49
  the
• 22:49
  nature
• 22:49
  of
• 22:50
  mind.
• 22:52
  And
• 22:53
  the
• 22:53
  ultimate
• 22:55
  goal
• 22:55
  for
• 22:55
  a
• 22:56
  practitioner
• 22:57
  is
• 22:57
  actually
• 22:58
  to
• 22:58
  completely
• 22:58
  empty
• 22:59
  your
• 22:59
  mind.
• 23:00
  When
• 23:00
  you,
• 23:01
  when
• 23:01
  you
• 23:01
  completely
• 23:01
  empty
• 23:02
  your
• 23:02
  mind,
• 23:02
  you
• 23:02
  have
• 23:02
  no
• 23:03
  attachment.
• 23:04
  And,
• 23:04
  and
• 23:04
  we
• 23:05
  know,
• 23:05
  we
• 23:05
  all
• 23:05
  know
• 23:06
  there's
• 23:06
  a
• 23:06
  danger
• 23:06
  there
• 23:06
  of
• 23:07
  trying
• 23:07
  to,
• 23:07
  to
• 23:08
  attach
• 23:08
  to
• 23:08
  non
• 23:09
  attachment
• 23:09
  we
• 23:09
  talked
• 23:09
  about
• 23:09
  before.
• 23:11
  That's
• 23:11
  where
• 23:11
  you
• 23:11
  know,
• 23:12
  allowing
• 23:12
  all
• 23:13
  your
• 23:13
  thoughts,
• 23:13
  desires
• 23:14
  to
• 23:14
  settle,
• 23:15
  allowing
• 23:15
  all
• 23:16
  your
• 23:16
  ambitions
• 23:17
  and
• 23:17
  will
• 23:17
  and
• 23:17
  identity
• 23:18
  to
• 23:18
  settle.
• 23:18
  That
• 23:19
  is,
• 23:19
  have
• 23:19
  less
• 23:19
  desire,
• 23:20
  less,
• 23:21
  Less
• 23:21
  identity
• 23:22
  to
• 23:23
  allow
• 23:23
  yourself.
• 23:24
  Then
• 23:25
  what
• 23:25
  happens?
• 23:25
  Then
• 23:26
  you
• 23:26
  can
• 23:26
  actually
• 23:27
  experience
• 23:27
  your
• 23:28
  true
• 23:28
  self
• 23:29
  emerging.
• 23:30
  You
• 23:30
  feel
• 23:30
  it
• 23:30
  in
• 23:31
  your
• 23:31
  body.
• 23:31
  You
• 23:31
  feel
• 23:31
  it.
• 23:32
  You
• 23:32
  experience
• 23:35
  fills
• 23:36
  you.
• 23:36
  It
• 23:36
  fills
• 23:37
  you.
• 23:37
  So
• 23:38
  in
• 23:39
  whatever
• 23:39
  method
• 23:40
  we're
• 23:40
  talking
• 23:40
  about,
• 23:41
  whatever
• 23:41
  practice
• 23:42
  we're
• 23:42
  talking
• 23:42
  about,
• 23:43
  in
• 23:43
  the
• 23:43
  end
• 23:43
  anything
• 23:44
  could
• 23:44
  become
• 23:44
  a
• 23:45
  distraction
• 23:45
  or
• 23:45
  a
• 23:45
  hindrance.
• 23:46
  And
• 23:47
  you
• 23:47
  want
• 23:48
  to
• 23:48
  maintain
• 23:49
  some
• 23:50
  inner
• 23:50
  space,
• 23:50
  to
• 23:51
  be
• 23:51
  able
• 23:51
  to
• 23:51
  evaluate
• 23:52
  things,
• 23:52
  to
• 23:53
  be
• 23:53
  able
• 23:53
  to
• 23:53
  have
• 23:53
  the
• 23:53
  will
• 23:54
  to
• 23:54
  decrease
• 23:54
  your
• 23:55
  desire,
• 23:55
  decrease
• 23:55
  your
• 23:56
  ambition,
• 23:56
  decrease
• 23:57
  your
• 23:57
  identity,
• 23:58
  and
• 23:58
  to
• 23:58
  be
• 23:59
  able
• 23:59
  to
• 23:59
  experience
• 23:59
  your
• 24:00
  true
• 24:00
  self.
• 24:00
  Then
• 24:01
  when
• 24:01
  you
• 24:01
  experience
• 24:01
  your
• 24:02
  true
• 24:02
  self,
• 24:02
  there's
• 24:02
  a
• 24:03
  matter
• 24:03
  of
• 24:03
  how
• 24:03
  do
• 24:04
  you
• 24:04
  integrate
• 24:04
  them,
• 24:05
  how
• 24:05
  do
• 24:05
  you
• 24:05
  return
• 24:06
  to
• 24:06
  it?
• 24:07
  So
• 24:08
  as
• 24:08
  you,
• 24:08
  as
• 24:09
  you
• 24:09
  were
• 24:09
  talking,
• 24:09
  describing
• 24:10
  different
• 24:11
  aids
• 24:12
  and
• 24:12
  obstacles,
• 24:13
  tools,
• 24:15
  it's,
• 24:15
  it's.
• 24:16
  They
• 24:16
  all
• 24:16
  have
• 24:16
  their
• 24:17
  own
• 24:17
  dangers.
• 24:18
  And
• 24:18
  the
• 24:19
  biggest
• 24:19
  danger
• 24:19
  at
• 24:20
  all
• 24:20
  is
• 24:20
  Anything
• 24:21
  that
• 24:21
  keeps
• 24:21
  us
• 24:21
  from
• 24:22
  allowing
• 24:23
  ourselves
• 24:23
  to
• 24:24
  lessen
• 24:24
  our
• 24:24
  desire
• 24:25
  to
• 24:25
  lessen
• 24:25
  our
• 24:25
  thought,
• 24:26
  to
• 24:26
  allow
• 24:26
  ourselves
• 24:27
  to
• 24:27
  experience
• 24:28
  our
• 24:28
  deepest
• 24:29
  self,
• 24:29
  our
• 24:29
  truest
• 24:29
  self,
• 24:30
  our
• 24:30
  most
• 24:30
  original
• 24:30
  self.
• 24:32
  Because
• 24:32
  I
• 24:32
  remember.
• 24:32
  I
• 24:33
  want
• 24:33
  to
• 24:34
  just
• 24:34
  add
• 24:34
  to
• 24:34
  that
• 24:34
  briefly,
• 24:35
  like,
• 24:35
  please,
• 24:36
  once
• 24:36
  you.
• 24:36
  So
• 24:36
  Adam
• 24:36
  talked
• 24:37
  about
• 24:37
  emptying
• 24:37
  the
• 24:37
  mind.
• 24:38
  So
• 24:38
  we
• 24:38
  would
• 24:38
  call
• 24:39
  that
• 24:39
  like
• 24:39
  a
• 24:39
  state
• 24:39
  of
• 24:39
  no
• 24:40
  thought,
• 24:40
  which
• 24:40
  is
• 24:40
  where
• 24:41
  you
• 24:41
  can
• 24:41
  experience
• 24:42
  the
• 24:42
  nature
• 24:42
  of
• 24:43
  mind.
• 24:43
  So
• 24:43
  you
• 24:43
  have
• 24:43
  the
• 24:43
  state
• 24:44
  of
• 24:44
  no
• 24:44
  thought.
• 24:44
  You
• 24:44
  experience
• 24:44
  the
• 24:45
  nature
• 24:45
  of
• 24:45
  mind,
• 24:45
  your
• 24:45
  true
• 24:46
  self.
• 24:46
  However
• 24:46
  you
• 24:46
  want
• 24:46
  to
• 24:47
  formulate
• 24:47
  that
• 24:48
  on
• 24:49
  the
• 24:49
  other
• 24:49
  side
• 24:50
  of
• 24:50
  that,
• 24:50
  once
• 24:50
  you,
• 24:51
  once
• 24:51
  you
• 24:51
  have
• 24:51
  stabilized
• 24:52
  that
• 24:53
  then
• 24:53
  the
• 24:53
  things
• 24:54
  that
• 24:54
  you
• 24:54
  had
• 24:54
  previously
• 24:55
  sought
• 24:56
  to
• 24:56
  eliminate
• 24:57
  no
• 24:57
  longer
• 24:57
  become
• 24:58
  a
• 24:58
  hindrance.
• 24:58
  In
• 24:59
  the
• 24:59
  same
• 24:59
  way
• 24:59
  that
• 24:59
  like
• 25:00
  a
• 25:00
  thought,
• 25:00
  a
• 25:00
  thought
• 25:01
  will
• 25:01
  arise
• 25:01
  from
• 25:01
  that
• 25:02
  state,
• 25:02
  a
• 25:03
  thought
• 25:03
  will
• 25:03
  arise
• 25:03
  and
• 25:03
  dissipate
• 25:04
  the
• 25:04
  same
• 25:04
  way
• 25:04
  like
• 25:05
  mist
• 25:05
  dissipates
• 25:05
  in
• 25:06
  the
• 25:06
  morning
• 25:06
  sun.
• 25:06
  Right.
• 25:07
  Because
• 25:07
  you
• 25:08
  now,
• 25:08
  instead
• 25:08
  of
• 25:09
  being
• 25:09
  attached
• 25:09
  to
• 25:09
  like
• 25:10
  the
• 25:10
  clouds
• 25:10
  in
• 25:10
  the
• 25:10
  sky,
• 25:11
  whether
• 25:11
  it's
• 25:11
  sunny
• 25:12
  or
• 25:12
  whatever,
• 25:12
  it's
• 25:13
  like
• 25:13
  you're
• 25:13
  at
• 25:13
  the
• 25:13
  level
• 25:13
  of
• 25:14
  the
• 25:14
  sky.
• 25:14
  And
• 25:15
  I
• 25:15
  don't
• 25:15
  mean
• 25:15
  lofty.
• 25:16
  I
• 25:16
  mean
• 25:16
  like
• 25:16
  the
• 25:16
  things
• 25:17
  that
• 25:17
  are
• 25:17
  passing
• 25:17
  through
• 25:17
  the
• 25:18
  sky
• 25:18
  do
• 25:18
  not
• 25:18
  stain
• 25:19
  the
• 25:19
  sky.
• 25:20
  So
• 25:20
  that
• 25:20
  same
• 25:21
  way.
• 25:21
  So
• 25:21
  there's
• 25:21
  no.
• 25:22
  You
• 25:23
  need
• 25:23
  to
• 25:23
  let
• 25:23
  go
• 25:24
  of
• 25:24
  letting
• 25:24
  go
• 25:24
  of
• 25:25
  things.
• 25:27
  Yes,
• 25:27
  yes.
• 25:28
  Allow
• 25:28
  them
• 25:28
  to
• 25:28
  exist.
• 25:29
  Allow
• 25:29
  them
• 25:29
  to
• 25:29
  exist
• 25:30
  and
• 25:30
  pass
• 25:30
  by,
• 25:30
  or
• 25:31
  else
• 25:31
  you'll
• 25:31
  have
• 25:31
  a
• 25:31
  whole
• 25:32
  other
• 25:32
  set
• 25:32
  of
• 25:32
  problems.
• 25:34
  And
• 25:34
  I
• 25:35
  remember
• 25:35
  hearing
• 25:36
  Trunk,
• 25:37
  but
• 25:37
  talk
• 25:37
  about
• 25:38
  spiritual
• 25:38
  materialism
• 25:40
  and
• 25:40
  also
• 25:41
  John
• 25:41
  Wellwood,
• 25:42
  who
• 25:42
  was
• 25:42
  a
• 25:42
  student
• 25:42
  of
• 25:43
  Trungpa,
• 25:44
  talking
• 25:44
  about
• 25:44
  spiritual
• 25:45
  bypassing.
• 25:46
  So,
• 25:47
  I
• 25:47
  mean,
• 25:48
  it
• 25:48
  seems
• 25:49
  to
• 25:49
  be
• 25:49
  fairly
• 25:49
  clear
• 25:51
  that
• 25:51
  we're,
• 25:51
  that
• 25:52
  we're
• 25:52
  aware
• 25:52
  of
• 25:52
  that.
• 25:53
  Well,
• 25:53
  we're
• 25:53
  coming
• 25:53
  to
• 25:53
  the
• 25:54
  end
• 25:54
  of
• 25:54
  the
• 25:54
  show
• 25:54
  and
• 25:56
  I'm
• 25:56
  very
• 25:56
  grateful
• 25:56
  to
• 25:57
  talk
• 25:57
  with
• 25:57
  you
• 25:57
  guys.
• 25:58
  And
• 25:58
  Adam,
• 25:58
  would
• 25:59
  you
• 25:59
  talk
• 25:59
  a
• 25:59
  little
• 25:59
  bit
• 25:59
  about
• 26:00
  the,
• 26:02
  the
• 26:02
  podcast
• 26:02
  that
• 26:03
  you
• 26:03
  are.
• 26:04
  This
• 26:05
  will
• 26:05
  be
• 26:05
  a
• 26:05
  crossover
• 26:06
  episode
• 26:06
  for.
• 26:07
  Yeah,
• 26:08
  so
• 26:08
  I'm
• 26:08
  starting
• 26:09
  up
• 26:09
  the
• 26:09
  Way
• 26:10
  between
• 26:10
  podcast
• 26:11
  just
• 26:11
  because
• 26:11
  I
• 26:11
  have
• 26:12
  the
• 26:12
  bandwidth
• 26:12
  for
• 26:12
  it
• 26:12
  and
• 26:13
  I
• 26:13
  enjoy
• 26:13
  these
• 26:13
  kind
• 26:13
  of
• 26:13
  conversations
• 26:14
  and
• 26:14
  want
• 26:15
  to
• 26:15
  take
• 26:15
  this
• 26:15
  to
• 26:16
  a
• 26:16
  different
• 26:16
  type
• 26:17
  of
• 26:17
  format
• 26:17
  where
• 26:17
  we
• 26:18
  have
• 26:18
  maybe
• 26:19
  less
• 26:19
  time
• 26:19
  constraints.
• 26:20
  Fewer
• 26:21
  time
• 26:21
  constraints.
• 26:22
  So
• 26:22
  the
• 26:23
  Way
• 26:23
  between
• 26:23
  podcasts
• 26:24
  will
• 26:24
  be
• 26:24
  available
• 26:24
  anywhere
• 26:25
  you
• 26:25
  get
• 26:25
  your
• 26:25
  podcast.
• 26:26
  This
• 26:26
  will
• 26:26
  be
• 26:26
  the
• 26:26
  first
• 26:26
  episode
• 26:27
  we'll
• 26:27
  be
• 26:27
  posting,
• 26:27
  cross
• 26:28
  posting
• 26:28
  it
• 26:28
  to
• 26:28
  the
• 26:28
  living
• 26:29
  conversation
• 26:29
  and
• 26:29
  the
• 26:30
  Way
• 26:30
  between
• 26:30
  podcast.
• 26:31
  And
• 26:31
  we'll
• 26:32
  be
• 26:32
  looking
• 26:32
  to,
• 26:33
  you
• 26:33
  know,
• 26:33
  follow.
• 26:34
  Follow
• 26:34
  a
• 26:34
  similar
• 26:35
  structure
• 26:36
  where
• 26:36
  we're
• 26:36
  inviting
• 26:37
  guests
• 26:37
  and.
• 26:38
  But
• 26:38
  go
• 26:39
  a
• 26:39
  little,
• 26:39
  go
• 26:39
  a
• 26:39
  little
• 26:40
  deeper
• 26:40
  with
• 26:40
  one
• 26:40
  or
• 26:41
  two
• 26:41
  concepts
• 26:42
  per
• 26:42
  episode.
• 26:43
  Go
• 26:43
  a
• 26:44
  little
• 26:44
  deeper
• 26:44
  with
• 26:44
  one
• 26:44
  or
• 26:44
  two
• 26:45
  philosophers
• 26:45
  and
• 26:45
  kind
• 26:46
  of
• 26:46
  stay
• 26:46
  tethered
• 26:46
  and
• 26:46
  yoked
• 26:47
  to
• 26:47
  that.
• 26:48
  It's
• 26:49
  hopefully
• 26:49
  meant
• 26:49
  to
• 26:50
  mirror
• 26:50
  my
• 26:50
  manuscript,
• 26:51
  which
• 26:51
  is
• 26:52
  a
• 26:52
  story
• 26:53
  of
• 26:53
  philosophy
• 26:54
  east
• 26:54
  and
• 26:54
  west,
• 26:54
  where
• 26:54
  we
• 26:55
  explore
• 26:55
  in
• 26:56
  depth
• 26:56
  experiences,
• 26:57
  chapter
• 26:57
  by
• 26:57
  chapter,
• 26:58
  with
• 26:58
  a
• 26:59
  particular
• 26:59
  philosophy
• 27:00
  or
• 27:00
  philosopher.
• 27:01
  Great.
• 27:03
  Well,
• 27:03
  we
• 27:03
  are
• 27:04
  at
• 27:04
  the
• 27:04
  end
• 27:04
  of
• 27:04
  the
• 27:05
  show.
• 27:05
  I'm
• 27:05
  Anthony
• 27:05
  Wright
• 27:06
  and
• 27:06
  I'm
• 27:06
  your
• 27:06
  co
• 27:06
  host
• 27:07
  with
• 27:08
  I.
• 27:08
  Indeed.
• 27:09
  And
• 27:09
  our
• 27:09
  guest
• 27:10
  is
• 27:10
  Nick
• 27:10
  Egan.
• 27:11
  And
• 27:11
  how
• 27:11
  can
• 27:11
  people
• 27:12
  contact
• 27:12
  you,
• 27:12
  Nick?
• 27:13
  Yeah,
• 27:13
  you
• 27:14
  can
• 27:14
  reach
• 27:14
  out
• 27:14
  to
• 27:14
  me@nickeganphd.com
• 27:15
  or
• 27:16
  ShiftLeadership
• 27:17
  Group.
• 27:18
  And
• 27:18
  Adam,
• 27:19
  you
• 27:19
  can
• 27:19
  find
• 27:20
  all
• 27:20
  my
• 27:20
  links
• 27:21
  at
• 27:21
  Substack.
• 27:22
  You
• 27:22
  search
• 27:23
  me
• 27:23
  up
• 27:23
  at
• 27:23
  the
• 27:23
  way
• 27:23
  between
• 27:23
  on
• 27:24
  Substack
• 27:24
  and
• 27:25
  excuse
• 27:26
  me,
• 27:26
  you
• 27:27
  can
• 27:27
  also
• 27:27
  reach
• 27:27
  out
• 27:27
  directly
• 27:28
  at
• 27:28
  deetsadamail.com.
• 27:30
  And
• 27:30
  I'm
• 27:30
  Anthony
• 27:30
  Wright
• 27:31
  and
• 27:31
  my
• 27:31
  website
• 27:32
  is
• 27:32
  theonot.com
• 27:34
  T-H-E-O-N-A-U-T.com
• 27:35
  and
• 27:36
  there
• 27:36
  is
• 27:36
  a
• 27:37
  comment
• 27:37
  section
• 27:37
  there.
• 27:38
  So
• 27:38
  thank
• 27:38
  you
• 27:38
  all
• 27:39
  for
• 27:39
  listening
• 27:40
  and
• 27:40
  tuning
• 27:40
  in
• 27:41
  and
• 27:41
  we
• 27:42
  will,
• 27:42
  we
• 27:42
  will
• 27:43
  see
• 27:43
  you
• 27:43
  next
• 27:43
  time.
• 27:44
  That.