Latest / Sacrilegious Discourse - Bible Study for Atheists / Matthew Chapter 5 Q&A: Bible Study by Atheists

Transcript

Matthew Chapter 5 Q&A: Bible Study by Atheists · Sacrilegious Discourse - Bible Study for Atheists

0:00
[SPEAKER_00]: husband wife do you know what we're doing today well it's Saturday and I think you we look we're not here we didn't get this out this morning but it is still Saturday which means that we're doing a Q&A Saturday and it's on a Saturday that's right this is we don't we don't get these down on Saturdays that often but this is very exciting we've pushed to get this because there's a lot of
0:25
[SPEAKER_00]: what I understand.
0:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god, there's so much because we're covering the sermon on the mound and it's only three chapters, Matthew, Little Matty, chapters, five, six, and seven.
0:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
0:35
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's questions about each chapter and then about the sermon as a whole and then there's, you know, vocabulary and history and shit like that.
0:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
0:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
0:46
[SPEAKER_01]: There's so much.
0:47
[SPEAKER_00]: There is, there is.
0:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I was up really late last night and I was like I'm not going to get it done, but I need to do it on Saturday so I could sing Q and A Saturday.
0:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And we already said we were going to do it on the yesterday's episode.
0:57
[SPEAKER_00]: So I mean, we got to give it that on Saturday.
0:59
[SPEAKER_01]: We got to.
0:59
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's late, but it's still Saturday and we did it and it's here and I'm so excited.
1:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
1:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:07
[SPEAKER_00]: So are you ready to get it at this?
1:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I really am.
1:09
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot.
1:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's pretty interesting.
1:13
[SPEAKER_00]: OK. Let's do this.
1:14
[SPEAKER_01]: OK, don't be.
1:22
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, we are hopping into this Q&A Saturday over the Jesus on the Mount Sermon.
1:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
1:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes.
1:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Little Maddie chapters five, six and seven.
1:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you could almost call this little Jesus.
1:38
[SPEAKER_01]: It's true.
1:38
[SPEAKER_01]: This is all Jesus.
1:39
[SPEAKER_01]: But no, but I want to call him Robert Downey Jesus.
1:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, right?
1:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Our be Jesus.
1:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, which we found a picture of.
1:45
[SPEAKER_01]: We did.
1:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And you shared it in this book.
1:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to say it's on this great.
1:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I shared it on Patreon too.
1:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you did.
1:50
[SPEAKER_01]: But good good.
1:51
[SPEAKER_01]: They deserve it.
1:52
[SPEAKER_00]: They do.
1:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:54
[SPEAKER_01]: But you listener, if you're not in discord or Patreon, you don't deserve it.
2:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Because kidding, wife is kidding because you should at least be hanging out with us on Tuesday nights on our Disco or you should be there a discord Disco and we need more people to make a more awesome.
2:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not saying that we need your financial support I'm saying coming out with us is fun.
2:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, every Tuesday 10 p.m. Eastern on discord some of our favorite people don't give it shit
2:24
[SPEAKER_00]: to their company.
2:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
2:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And we enjoy it.
2:27
[SPEAKER_01]: They come hang out with us and they're like, wait, you're reading the Bible?
2:30
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
2:32
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, let's get into this.
2:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so the sermon on the mound, right?
2:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, chapter five is what we're going to start with.
2:41
[SPEAKER_00]: That's definitely wouldn't show it at the start of the mountain.
2:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I would just read you started.
2:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, let's read where it first says now in verse one.
2:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Now when Jesus saw the crowds, he went up on a mountain and sat down.
2:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
2:54
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a big deal.
2:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And I didn't know it at the time.
2:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
2:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
2:58
[SPEAKER_01]: First of all, let's talk about the fucking mountain.
3:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
3:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
3:01
[SPEAKER_01]: He never names the mountain.
3:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I made him a steak when we were reading this.
3:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it was in Chapter 6 and I was like, Mount Nemo, but then I corrected myself and was like, wait, no, that's the mountain from when he's tempted and he devils like, do it, do it.
3:18
[SPEAKER_01]: That was a previous chapter.
3:19
[SPEAKER_00]: That's another mountain.
3:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's a different mountain.
3:21
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is just a mountain.
3:23
[SPEAKER_01]: This is just a sermon on the mat, yeah, but while he went up the mountain side, okay, and he sat on it.
3:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, traditionally Christians associated with a hill near the cello, the sea of Galilee, okay, which the tracks, that's the area, but Matthew may also be making a symbolic point about this because Moses received the law on a mountain and Jesus is giving the law on a mountain.
3:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah,
3:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
3:52
[SPEAKER_00]: That would be simple.
3:54
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't like it's less important which mountain it is than the fact that it was a mountain at all.
3:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, but it is important because I want to know.
4:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
4:04
[SPEAKER_01]: The sermon itself, these three chapters, maybe edited together many scholars think that the sermon on the mount is not one uninterrupted speech, given in one afternoon.
4:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but instead it looks like Matthew probably collected many different teachings of Jesus and he organized them into one thematic sermon.
4:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And that tracks better to me.
4:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
4:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Unless they broke for lunch.
4:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And then snacksies.
4:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I suppose that I mean, if you just read it straight through, it's not that long of a speech.
4:36
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not that long, but you definitely want to have an intermission.
4:41
[SPEAKER_01]: That's, I think so.
4:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I think so.
4:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I feel like I would have sat through longer church services than that if, you know, like when I've gone to a church service.
4:50
[SPEAKER_01]: So we read it in three different after news.
4:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but we also commented all the way through it.
4:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was like three hours, three and a half hours total.
5:00
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it wasn't that long.
5:01
[SPEAKER_01]: If you take the chapters one, two and three, yeah.
5:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Or five, six and seven, I mean?
5:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm exactly.
5:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I know.
5:07
[SPEAKER_00]: We're like our episodes were only like at the most like 45 minutes.
5:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you cut out like 15 minutes for jab and at each other and doing whatever we do.
5:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
5:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Then it's like an hour and a half.
5:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that's fair.
5:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I forgot we conversed a lot.
5:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
5:19
[SPEAKER_01]: That adds to it.
5:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
5:20
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
5:21
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're just reading that straight through.
5:23
[SPEAKER_01]: So, all right, he might have done it in one afternoon.
5:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
5:27
[SPEAKER_01]: But there were so many different lessons that he like changed track.
5:32
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, let's talk about a needle and then he's like, let's talk about a gate and then he's like, let's talk about a wolf.
5:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
5:39
[SPEAKER_01]: you know like he had a switch topics and it was only like two sentences and then he was switch a topic he did but it was just so much different stuff right anyway remember when I said the fact that he sat down he sat down yeah and then how that's important sure it's weird right like you're looking at me like
5:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know why it's important, but okay, because I'm about to tell you.
6:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's okay.
6:02
[SPEAKER_01]: So modern speakers stand up, right?
6:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we stand before an audience, right?
6:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Engine Jewish teachers often sat while formally teaching.
6:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
6:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And so by saying in this formal writing.
6:17
[SPEAKER_01]: thing that we have gathered, he sat down.
6:20
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not just like a throw away, it's like, and then he got real.
6:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so he's teaching now.
6:26
[SPEAKER_00]: He's doing the teacher thing.
6:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it signals his authority.
6:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Formal instruction is happening, and he's in rabbinic teaching mode.
6:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I see.
6:35
[SPEAKER_01]: He put on his teacher hat and said, all right, let's go.
6:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the class was like in session.
6:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Got it.
6:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so that matters.
6:44
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, so then let's talk about the Beatitudes and those were from verses 3 to 12 of chapter 5.
6:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
6:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And we were like the fuck is a fucking Beatitude.
6:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I never actually says in the verses.
6:58
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't say Beatitudes.
7:00
[SPEAKER_01]: But he said it as a header.
7:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, these are the Beatitudes.
7:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, hey, I've heard of those.
7:05
[SPEAKER_01]: But these verses are referred to as the Beatitudes.
7:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, the word be attitude comes from the Latin Beatis, and it means blessed, fortunate, flourishing, and beable, deeply favored the good life belongs to, and that makes sense because the Beatitudes are all a series are blessed are the people who blessed are the blah, blah, blah, blah.
7:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, bumper stickers.
7:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, bumper stickers, blessed are the porn spirit, blessed are the meat, blessed are the peacemaker.
7:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
7:38
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why they're called to be attitudes because the attitude means it's the blessed are days.
7:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Got it.
7:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
7:44
[SPEAKER_01]: That's all it means.
7:46
[SPEAKER_01]: It means it's the blessed bumper stickers.
7:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
7:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
7:50
[SPEAKER_01]: The Greek word used is macarios, which doesn't just mean happy, like blessed or happy, in a shallow emotional sense, instead implies a state of deep well-being or divine favor.
8:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's not just blessed or happy or the meek.
8:14
[SPEAKER_01]: It's these folk are in good divine spirit and favor because and then it goes on, takes blame why.
8:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Gotcha.
8:23
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's what be out of two means.
8:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, I, whatever.
8:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Then it goes on to talk about poverty of spirit and God's reaction to poverty of spirit which is morning.
8:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we get the next step which is meekness.
8:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
8:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And the Greek word is
8:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Ancient Greek writers could even use related words for attamed horse, attamed war horse.
9:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So everything that they did they would be talking about horses.
9:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
9:05
[SPEAKER_01]: All the time they're like talking about fucking animals and shit.
9:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
9:09
[SPEAKER_01]: So blessed are the meek.
9:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Doesn't necessarily mean blessed are passive door mats.
9:14
[SPEAKER_01]: It means blessed are the people who refuse domination and violence despite
9:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
9:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Does that make better sense?
9:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
9:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Blessed, blessed are the, the war horses who don't just be chomping at the bed and biting all over you.
9:30
[SPEAKER_01]: They have the power to do that.
9:31
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of like when I clip my cat's nails, she could claw my fucking face off and tear me the fuck up if she wanted to.
9:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
9:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
9:39
[SPEAKER_01]: But.
9:40
[SPEAKER_01]: She has divine spirit.
9:42
[SPEAKER_01]: That's it.
9:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Is the meek cat who allows me to clip her nails and see she gets better for it, right?
9:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
9:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Because she holds back.
9:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
9:51
[SPEAKER_01]: So she is, she is divine.
9:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I see.
9:55
[SPEAKER_01]: My cat is divine.
9:56
[SPEAKER_00]: That makes sense.
9:57
[SPEAKER_00]: She acts like she's divine.
9:59
[SPEAKER_01]: She is, that's one thing that I like in Star Trek Discovery book referred to as cat as her majesty, like he always says she's a queen.
10:09
[SPEAKER_01]: She's a queen and I was like as well you should refer to your cat that way.
10:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that made me really love her.
10:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
10:15
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
10:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so okay, then we move on and we get to versus 13 through 16 where we talk about the salt of the earth and the light of the world.
10:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
10:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
10:28
[SPEAKER_01]: We had questions about salt.
10:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, we have a whole episode Q&A about the importance of solts during that.
10:36
[SPEAKER_01]: But what does it mean to be, oh, these people are the salt of the earth.
10:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, what does that even mean?
10:44
[SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't, like, we had questions.
10:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
10:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so salt as we talked about in that episode where we talked about the importance of salt.
10:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I only vaguely remember.
10:56
[SPEAKER_01]: It was, it was a couple of years ago, but we did a special deep dive into salt.
11:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I do, I remember making a salt bay, you did, you made a salt bay and I'm so impressed with you.
11:08
[SPEAKER_01]: because you don't do pop culture references, but you knew Salt Bay and you knew his arm motion.
11:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And that was so impressive.
11:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I was very sexually attracted to you on that day.
11:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Salt, as a reminder, has several important uses in the ancient world, preserving food, laboring food, purification, and covenant symbolism in Jewish tradition.
11:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
11:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I just remembered, and one of the things we talked about, they had given such importance in salt that they used to rub their babies in it.
11:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I remember and then there are some old world traditions to this day where Dula's or like new moms will still rub salt into the umbilical cord into their baby's belly button Right and like medical professionals are like I really don't want to step on anybody's religious practices
12:12
[SPEAKER_01]: but could we not though?
12:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, that's not great.
12:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Because babies can literally die from too much fall.
12:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, right.
12:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
12:21
[SPEAKER_01]: But what Jesus was talking about, supposedly according to Matthew, in saying that followers of Jesus should be like salt.
12:31
[SPEAKER_01]: probably meant preserve what is good, prevent moral decay, bring distinctiveness and value, meaning flavor, and live in a way that affects the world around you positively.
12:43
[SPEAKER_00]: OK.
12:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's what a salt of the earth person is.
12:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Got it.
12:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Somebody who has those qualities.
12:50
[SPEAKER_00]: That makes a lot of sense, given the context of salt in their time and.
12:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
12:54
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's just you hear that phrase to this day and people are like, you know, a good guy.
12:59
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't think they know what it means anymore than I did.
13:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
13:03
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just we have this sense that is, you know, just a good old guy.
13:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
13:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And this helped me understand, know what it actually means.
13:12
[SPEAKER_01]: It's somebody who's actively good and and tasty.
13:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we had a question, how does loose salt lose is saltiness?
13:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, because that was one of the the versus was about losing as saltiness.
13:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
13:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't lose your saltiness.
13:30
[SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, that was probably more of a, you know, as salt loses its saltiness.
13:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't you do that or some shit like that?
13:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
13:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So pure sodium chloride technically doesn't stop being salty.
13:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Ancient salt wasn't highly refined but it was mixed with minerals and impurities.
13:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So moisture could reach out the actual salt content leaving behind useless residue that looked like salt but no longer function like it.
13:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And they would often use it the way we use salt and snowy and icy areas.
14:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
14:05
[SPEAKER_01]: They would toss it into wet areas so it's not to slip.
14:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Got it.
14:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, I don't people who don't live in snowy or icy areas might not realize that during like a winter storm, so there's like rocky salt.
14:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
14:23
[SPEAKER_01]: that people in Ohio, we buy big bags of it.
14:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and trucks travel around on the ground too.
14:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
14:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And like you're supposed to throw it all over your steps and your your front sidewalk so that the mailman doesn't like break his ass, trying to get to your mailbox.
14:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
14:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that was new to me when I moved Ohio because I lived in hot places.
14:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd never had snow and I was like, what the fuck
14:52
[SPEAKER_01]: fuck are you doing like, and it's not the same like table salt.
14:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I never really like you you think of people in the south never having seen snow, right?
15:02
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the thing that occurs to you.
15:04
[SPEAKER_00]: But it never occurs to me that people wouldn't have known of the practice of throwing salt to get rid of the snow because that's the step further beyond that whole pop process.
15:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's so common here that
15:16
[SPEAKER_01]: It wouldn't occur to you not to know it and it wouldn't occur to me to be a thing to ask about.
15:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Now to be fair, if you come up here now, you might see the trucks not throwing rocks all on the ground, they now throw some sort of like low radiation spray on the ground.
15:30
[SPEAKER_00]: They literally irradiate the snow.
15:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god, I didn't know that.
15:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, it's not my favorite thing that's happened up here.
15:38
[SPEAKER_00]: But salt's been really like, we've had a couple of winners where it got so bad that we ran out of salt and stuff.
15:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, and I've seen reports too that salt use over use has begun to erode our water tables.
15:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, but I'm not sure that uranium water is the best way to go.
15:55
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I don't think that that was a good answer.
15:57
[SPEAKER_01]: That's like fire front and pen kind of situation.
16:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
16:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so Jesus is using a practical image for his audience that they would recognize when he's talking about be like salt.
16:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Because everybody uses it knows what it does.
16:15
[SPEAKER_00]: It understands the, they understand the metaphor.
16:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, exactly.
16:19
[SPEAKER_01]: It was something that was meant to be potent and distinctive.
16:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And yet, overused can make it become any effective.
16:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And that was his point.
16:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we don't solve is not what it used to be to the average person.
16:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
16:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
16:34
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't, we don't salt our meat to preserve it.
16:37
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't, we don't use it.
16:38
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not required now.
16:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
16:39
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not that we don't, but we don't do that act ourselves.
16:42
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like there, there are other places that do the preservation of
16:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's products and they're preserved in different ways now and there's even, you know, people who have to watch their salt intake.
16:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
16:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And that would not have been something even known of during Jesus's time.
16:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
16:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And we have freezers now.
16:59
[SPEAKER_01]: that is true.
17:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
17:01
[SPEAKER_01]: That is true.
17:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Can salt that loses its saltiness regain is saltiness?
17:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say no.
17:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Correct.
17:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
17:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Not really.
17:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And the whole point was about losing integrity or purpose, not about actual.
17:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Not the actual salt, but it works both ways.
17:20
[SPEAKER_01]: It does.
17:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Science or metaphor.
17:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
17:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I've been told I'm a little too salty sometimes can be I can be I can be I'm not sorry for it
17:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, we don't know.
17:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it'd be what it be.
17:39
[SPEAKER_01]: So moving on them, like I had said that this was the bit with the salt and the light, and one of our questions was, why would anybody put a light under a bowl?
17:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you made the comment about how our lamps actually are living room lights, actually are kind of like bowls over lights, but we were like, K, whatever, because we didn't really know what that meant.
18:03
[SPEAKER_01]: So, okay, I read two different things about this, normally one wouldn't put a bowl over light, which was kind of Jesus' point.
18:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Ancient homes were dark, oil lamps were valuable, and intended to illuminate the light, so putting a light under a bowl would hide the light, smother it, or otherwise defeat the purpose.
18:24
[SPEAKER_01]: So the metaphor means don't hide your ethical or spiritual life.
18:29
[SPEAKER_01]: that you're meant to embody.
18:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And don't, your visible goodness should benefit others.
18:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, in the time frame that makes a lot of sense.
18:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
18:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, there was a darker translation that I also came across.
18:43
[SPEAKER_01]: That I thought was really interesting, which is that somebody who hides their light,
18:52
[SPEAKER_01]: You put your light out at bedtime, right?
18:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And back then, so it would have been pitch dark, right?
18:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And so they would have put their light out, but hit it, but kept it burning so that they could then scope around later and steal.
19:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, that might have been a good idea.
19:09
[SPEAKER_00]: So I meant you were possibly not just hiding your life but doing the various things.
19:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
19:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
19:16
[SPEAKER_01]: So kind of had a double meaning and I was like, oh, that's interesting.
19:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Great, right?
19:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm, so don't be sneaky and do be bright and happy.
19:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
19:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And let it shine.
19:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
19:28
[SPEAKER_01]: This little light of mine.
19:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god.
19:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I bet that's what that song's referencing.
19:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to let it shine.
19:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to let it shine.
19:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Let it shine.
19:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Probably.
19:38
[SPEAKER_01]: This little light of mine.
19:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Or maybe not.
19:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to let it shine.
19:42
[SPEAKER_00]: You really could be anything.
19:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to let it shine.
19:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Let it shine.
19:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Let it shine.
19:48
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'll let you have it.
19:51
[SPEAKER_01]: like that's all the words to it that I know.
19:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
19:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Are there other words to it?
19:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Possibly.
19:56
[SPEAKER_00]: There's other, we recently found a song by the dead south.
20:02
[SPEAKER_00]: What is it?
20:04
[SPEAKER_00]: That is something you are my surgeon.
20:05
[SPEAKER_00]: You are my sunshine.
20:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And I only knew like the first verse, but there's like, and I don't know if it was always more verses, but the dead south.
20:12
[SPEAKER_01]: There's always more verses.
20:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
20:14
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
20:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, regardless, the dead south's version of it is,
20:17
[SPEAKER_01]: It takes the song in its original lyrical format and gives you the mood that the song always had.
20:26
[SPEAKER_00]: It's that you didn't know you needed the best.
20:29
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the best.
20:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's where 80's babies come in.
20:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And remember I made reference to the fact that you don't know pop culture references.
20:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So in the movie beaches.
20:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm aware of that movie.
20:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
20:41
[SPEAKER_00]: They had ordered a caprio.
20:43
[SPEAKER_01]: No, actually it's fucking not really you're thinking of the beat.
20:50
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not an 80s movie.
20:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, yeah, be just had Beth Middler and Barbara Hershey in it.
20:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, and a very early
21:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, ma'am, Balik, she played Blossom.
21:03
[SPEAKER_01]: OK. And I probably butcher her name.
21:07
[SPEAKER_01]: You're looking at me like I'm nuts, but...
21:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not looking at you like you're nuts.
21:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I just don't know what you're talking about.
21:10
[SPEAKER_01]: 80s babies know what I'm talking about.
21:12
[SPEAKER_01]: The movie Beaches.
21:13
[SPEAKER_01]: OK?
21:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that me?
21:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
21:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And probably a bunch of other people actually.
21:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, anyway, in the movie beaches, Barbara Hershey's character, like these two girls are best friends, okay?
21:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And Barbara Hershey's character towards the end is dying.
21:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And that mittler is driving them to the beach.
21:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And she's trying to seem to chair everybody in the car up.
21:40
[SPEAKER_01]: and she starts singing um you are my sunshine and then she gets to the second verse and it's killer and she's like oh and she kind of peed her soft because
21:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
21:52
[SPEAKER_01]: That song is not as cheerful as it let's on.
21:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
21:54
[SPEAKER_01]: So no, that song always had those verses you just didn't know that.
21:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
22:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
22:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And what is that band called the dead cell?
22:04
[SPEAKER_01]: The dead cell is like, oh, but we know them.
22:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
22:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And they did a fantastic.
22:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's how the song should be sung.
22:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And they did.
22:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
22:12
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so good.
22:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I did.
22:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I did.
22:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I totally recommend.
22:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
22:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway,
22:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, it's a great movie.
22:20
[SPEAKER_01]: It's where it's where this it's where the song wind beneath my wings comes from.
22:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it?
22:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
22:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know that.
22:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
22:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I knew the song that it literally comes from that soundtrack.
22:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
22:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
22:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, because
22:34
[SPEAKER_01]: because Cece Bloom is the bed medler character and she's a famous singer in the movie and she sings it about her best friend.
22:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
22:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm the famous one, but did you ever know that you were my hero?
22:47
[SPEAKER_01]: You were the wind beneath my wings?
22:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you're the one that actually mattered.
22:51
[SPEAKER_01]: You were the, um, the reliable one.
22:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I was the flake.
22:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's what that song is actually about.
22:59
[SPEAKER_01]: It comes from that movie.
23:00
[SPEAKER_00]: That's great.
23:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, anyway, so this is a little light of mine I'm gonna let it shine.
23:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, okay.
23:08
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
23:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's move on to verses to 21 through 22.
23:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay Jesus' attitude toward anger.
23:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, and he's gonna interpret the law against murder.
23:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so I'm gonna read these two verses
23:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if he still doesn't double check murder.
23:29
[SPEAKER_00]: We're talking about murder.
23:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
23:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, stabby stabbing.
23:31
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm going to kill you.
23:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
23:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Anything.
23:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
23:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
23:35
[SPEAKER_01]: So.
23:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Versus 21 and 22 from Matthew chapter six.
23:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Five chapter five.
23:41
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, you have heard that it was said to the people stuff laughing at me, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, you shall not murder and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment, but I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister by which it means fellow disciple will be subject to judgment again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, Raka.
24:07
[SPEAKER_01]: is answerable to the court.
24:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And anyone who says, Yeah, boo.
24:13
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll be in danger of the fires of health.
24:15
[SPEAKER_00]: That's crazy to me.
24:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought crime, you literally, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't even be angry at one of your fellow people, you're a murderer, you're going to hell.
24:25
[SPEAKER_00]: That's crazy.
24:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
24:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I underlined so many different things in that to cover.
24:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
24:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
24:30
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's deal with the first part.
24:32
[SPEAKER_01]: You have heard that it was said to the people long ago.
24:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
24:35
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you mean Moses?
24:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
24:37
[SPEAKER_01]: That was an accident.
24:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Do not kill, right?
24:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
24:40
[SPEAKER_01]: It was an accident.
24:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Chapter 20 versus 12 through 17 on your father and your mother so that you may live long in the land of the Lord.
24:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Your God is giving you.
24:52
[SPEAKER_01]: You shout out murder.
24:53
[SPEAKER_01]: You shout out commit adultery.
24:55
[SPEAKER_01]: You shout out steel.
24:56
[SPEAKER_01]: You shout out get false testimony against your neighbor.
24:59
[SPEAKER_01]: You shout out covet your neighbor's house.
25:01
[SPEAKER_01]: You shout out covet your neighbor's wife or his male or female servant.
25:06
[SPEAKER_01]: His oxardon gear, anything that belongs to your neighbor.
25:09
[SPEAKER_00]: If you ever need a reminder of any of those you can just go into any text of school and find it on the walls.
25:14
[SPEAKER_01]: That is true.
25:16
[SPEAKER_00]: That is fucking sad.
25:18
[SPEAKER_01]: So I covered this when we went over chapter five by itself.
25:23
[SPEAKER_01]: instead of like the Q&A, we were just talking about it a little bit.
25:28
[SPEAKER_01]: What the fuck is Raka?
25:30
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an aromig term of great contempt.
25:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Raka, so when it says, anyone who says to their fellow disciple, Raka, it's like saying, God damn it, or fuck!
25:47
[SPEAKER_00]: If I, I mean, if there, if hell was real and then I mean like literally I think everybody's going to help it.
25:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah.
25:54
[SPEAKER_00]: No one's, no one's going to make it through that.
25:57
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
25:57
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
25:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, it's signify, it's worse than that though.
26:02
[SPEAKER_01]: It signifies a vain empty worthless person with shallow brains and such expressions at the time were generally punished with a heavy find.
26:17
[SPEAKER_00]: And you got fine for that.
26:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And you got fine.
26:20
[SPEAKER_01]: If I'm coming up to you and I'm saying, you are a worthless piece of shit.
26:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I have just said, rocket to you.
26:25
[SPEAKER_00]: That's fucking nuts.
26:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would get fine because you're not a worthless piece of shit.
26:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, but I mean, that's crazy to me.
26:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you can't.
26:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, look, it's no fun when someone calls you a worthless piece of shit, right?
26:38
[SPEAKER_00]: But like, should they get fine for it?
26:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
26:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
26:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it was part of the culture, not just to say you worthless pieces shit, but also to go through a great public motion of correcting bats, part of like shit, outward shaming of each other.
26:59
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a big show.
27:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what Jesus was trying to, that's why that all of this is about authenticity and not making a show of it.
27:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
27:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's less about don't say rocker like it's less about the action than the don't be so worked up that you want to call somebody a worthless piece of shit in the first place.
27:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
27:24
[SPEAKER_01]: So.
27:26
[SPEAKER_01]: it's supposed to be more about the intent than the action.
27:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I got it.
27:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And so he's he's saying the rule says don't say to murder people.
27:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm saying don't get so angry that you even come close to that.
27:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, right.
27:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you are cousin somebody out, you're starting to come to that line.
27:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
27:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And call me a tits.
27:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
27:45
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what the message is.
27:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
27:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
27:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, when it talks about the court, where it says, um, they're answerable to the court.
27:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
27:55
[SPEAKER_01]: That refers to the famous counsel known among the Jews by the name Sam Heidrin, which we talked a little bit about.
28:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
28:03
[SPEAKER_01]: It was composed of 72 elders six chosen out of each tribe.
28:09
[SPEAKER_01]: So you go and you call somebody a worthless piece of shit and then they're like,
28:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And then go stand in front of those 72 people.
28:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you have witnesses that heard you.
28:22
[SPEAKER_01]: So you got to pay a penalty for that.
28:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
28:24
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't be because some people are public.
28:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
28:27
[SPEAKER_01]: The grand Sanhedrin not only received appeals from the inferior Sanhedrin's, but could alone take cognizance of the highest crimes and alone inflict the punishment of stony.
28:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
28:42
[SPEAKER_01]: So depending on who you were the set it versus who you were that got called it versus the circumstances surrounding it.
28:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
28:52
[SPEAKER_01]: These guys got to judge and they they might not judge in your favor.
28:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
28:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Depending on what was happening.
28:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
28:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And worse, they might be like, this is the tenth time you've come before us this month, call on somebody of worthless piece of shit.
29:05
[SPEAKER_01]: It's time for you to be stoned to my friend.
29:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
29:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
29:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Or something like that.
29:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
29:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
29:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, and then so anyone saying that is meaning, that applies to anyone that wants to rebel against God, to basically be like, God is dumb and doing wrong.
29:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, like us.
29:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
29:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
29:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
29:31
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're going around saying,
29:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, this term implied among the Jews, the highest enormity and most aggravated guilt.
29:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, such an expression was typically punished by cutting out the tongue and thrusting a hot iron of 10 fingers, breaths into the mouth of the person who used it.
29:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, right?
30:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, just imagine.
30:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Look, um,
30:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm thankful we live now.
30:11
[SPEAKER_00]: So we definitely could not have had this podcast back then.
30:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, well, no, that goes without saying almost, but basically it's like you're walking up to saying, you're a goddamn worthless piece of shit.
30:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
30:24
[SPEAKER_01]: That would have been so bad.
30:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you've just combined all of the things into one.
30:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
30:31
[SPEAKER_01]: You've said, Rocca, you've said you fool.
30:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Forget washing your mouth out with soap.
30:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
30:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was bad.
30:39
[SPEAKER_01]: It was not good.
30:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Then, um, it went on to talk about in that scene verse, remember, um, I said that I underlined so many different things just in those verses along.
30:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
30:54
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the last one.
30:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyone who says, you boo, we'll be in danger of the fires of hell.
31:00
[SPEAKER_01]: This one's so interesting.
31:01
[SPEAKER_01]: This, this harkens back to something we love.
31:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
31:05
[SPEAKER_01]: The fires of hell should better be translated as the hell
31:12
[SPEAKER_01]: okay depending you know on the the Greek and the Latin right Matthew here is alluding to the valley of the son of him on which you know would be geek him on you know get a actual Jewish hell
31:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the the hell of fire right this specific you know geographic place was near Jerusalem and had been formerly used for those abominable sacrifices in which the idolatrous Jews had caused their children to pass through the fire to molek.
31:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
31:47
[SPEAKER_01]: A particular place in this valley was called Tofet, the Firestove.
31:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
31:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Remember us talking about that a little bit?
31:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
31:54
[SPEAKER_01]: In which some, um, supposed they burnt their children alive to Molek.
32:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And we had talked about that way back in second Kings, second Chronicles and Jeremiah.
32:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
32:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
32:06
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very probable that Matthew means this.
32:09
[SPEAKER_01]: If a man charges another with apostasy, meaning going against God and not believing God not being God like,
32:19
[SPEAKER_01]: from the Jewish religion, so not just about God, but about Judaism as a whole.
32:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you're not being very Jewish right now, right?
32:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
32:28
[SPEAKER_01]: If a man charges another with apostasy from the Jewish religion or rebellion against God and cannot prove his charge, then he has exposed to that punishment, burning alive, which the other must have suffered if the charge had been substantiated.
32:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
32:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
32:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
32:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
32:50
[SPEAKER_00]: So you better be sure you're bringing it out.
32:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't just accuse somebody of not being Jewish enough.
32:57
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you not have a witch hunt?
32:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it's how.
33:02
[SPEAKER_01]: This whole thing can be summarized thus.
33:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Someone pisses me off to the point that I slap them in the face and scream, burn and hell, God damn it, you stupid shit for brains.
33:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay?
33:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And instead of figuring out though what caused my outbursts, society clutches its pearls and shocked in dignation and they then punish me for all of the things that I just didn't say.
33:29
[SPEAKER_01]: So it had its good place, but also the example that I just gave is why it would not work today.
33:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, because generally you're saying those things in reaction to something else that was terrible that everybody missed.
33:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
33:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
33:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, off topic, but people who are autistic.
33:51
[SPEAKER_01]: suffer from this greatly because they notice patterns and are more sensitive to social rules like missing out on the things that everybody else gets and so we will react to things or ask questions that other people don't and then instead of like looking at the problem like we pointed out the problem so we get punished.
34:18
[SPEAKER_01]: rather than the problem itself.
34:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So this one, like, I had a little bit of feelings on it.
34:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
34:26
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
34:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's move on to verse 27.
34:29
[SPEAKER_01]: So in chapter five, I'm going to read 27 and 28.
34:33
[SPEAKER_01]: You have heard it was said blah, blah, blah, blah.
34:36
[SPEAKER_01]: You shall not commit adultery.
34:38
[SPEAKER_01]: But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her heart.
34:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Now I already read that verse that came from,
34:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Exodus chapter 20, but again, you're committing a sin, just by thinking a thing.
34:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
34:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
34:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Thought crime, more thought crime.
34:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.
35:00
[SPEAKER_01]: He's saying, it's not just the thought crime, though.
35:04
[SPEAKER_01]: He's saying, like, you think that just because you abstained that,
35:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you put yourself in check.
35:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you don't get points for not fucking your neighbor's wife.
35:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
35:17
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're still looking out the window at her and watching her.
35:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And spying on her or looking up her Facebook profile.
35:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
35:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And or you made a secret account on hinge or like whatever you're doing.
35:33
[SPEAKER_01]: He's saying, okay, you're checking the box legalistically.
35:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
35:41
[SPEAKER_01]: you're not actually like, why don't you get with the spirit of the law rather than the letter of the law?
35:47
[SPEAKER_01]: The spirit of the law is not just about not cheating on your spouse.
35:51
[SPEAKER_01]: It's about not being cheating.
35:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Which I can agree with, but at the same time, to call it the level of, like, to go to the level of, it's a sin that you deserve to burn and tell, burn and hell for eternally for is a,
36:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that level of punishment that is indicated through this religion is excessive.
36:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like the people, okay, the lessons are so simple that I feel like the people had to have been simple.
36:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And so he had to like make the rules simple.
36:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
36:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe I'm reading more into this, but I'm like these are fucking bumper stickers.
36:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's talking to a bunch of men.
36:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
36:33
[SPEAKER_01]: and men are lusty and you can't just tell them don't lust.
36:38
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to like tell them and that includes looking out the window and yes, that includes, you know, this and yes, that includes like I feel like Jesus is like being like
36:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Come on y'all, you know what I'm fucking talking about, but they're making him spell it out and the more he has to spell it out, the more hardcore and ridiculous it seems so that then we get a question about, you know, what about porn right right and there's
37:07
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, pros and cons of that.
37:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Like on the one hand, I don't give a shit if men watch porn.
37:14
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't impact me one way or the other.
37:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm confident in myself.
37:17
[SPEAKER_01]: You could watch porn all day.
37:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Up once I'm down the other.
37:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not jealous.
37:22
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't matter to me.
37:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't consider that cheating.
37:26
[SPEAKER_01]: There is such a thing as poor in addiction and there is the difference between a person who actually signs up to be a poor and artist versus the sex slave trade that is sold into pornography and children pornography and that is harmful.
37:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So like I feel like this whole conversation where
37:55
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of not as fault because men suck.
37:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
37:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Ultimately.
38:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Trying to keep them from ever even entertaining the idea of these.
38:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
38:03
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, just don't be an ass-hat.
38:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Keep your shit together.
38:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Keep your dick in your pants and your eyeballs in your face.
38:10
[SPEAKER_00]: No, at any angle, from a teacher's perspective, I can agree with you.
38:13
[SPEAKER_00]: But from the son of God's perspective, who is speaking the words of God, essentially, because he is God.
38:21
[SPEAKER_00]: It's right.
38:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
38:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Good, look, we talked about it many times.
38:25
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of things that he taught through the speech that were good messages most in my opinion, right?
38:32
[SPEAKER_00]: But a lot of them also went too far.
38:34
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of them were too much, you know?
38:36
[SPEAKER_00]: So.
38:37
[SPEAKER_01]: It's that whole, you know, you have to spell things out so that people don't do loopholes, but the more that you spell it out, the more harsh you are.
38:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And then that makes you a hardcore government and governing factor instead of the ultimate purpose was just for us to all live in harmony.
38:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is why we can't have nice things.
38:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Because there's always somebody who, you know, but what about?
39:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you have to fucking spell it out.
39:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
39:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
39:06
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, so then we move on to verses 31 and 32 still on chapter five.
39:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
39:12
[SPEAKER_01]: It has been said, anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce, but I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife except for sexual immorality makes her the victim of adultery and anyone who marries out divorced woman commits adultery.
39:30
[SPEAKER_01]: So I've been married before, so I am guilty of adultery, and you married me, so now you are guilty of adultery.
39:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And would you like to talk to my first husband about that?
39:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't like to talk to you.
39:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Any of my existence, no, no.
39:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so where that whole divorce thing came from was due to around a meet chapter 24, um, versus one through four, if a man Mary is a woman who becomes this pleasing to him because he finds something in decent about her and he writes her certificate of divorce gives it to her and sends it sends her from his house and if after she leaves his house, she becomes the wife of another man and her second husband dislikes her and writes her a certificate of divorce gives it
40:17
[SPEAKER_01]: from his house or if he dies, then her first husband who divorced her, he and a lot of Mary her again after she has been defiled.
40:26
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't just take her back, you already, she's already been with somebody else after you.
40:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, but it sounds like
40:33
[SPEAKER_00]: They, that Jesus strengthened the, the, the law here, because it, it, it, it was that you could divorce, you just couldn't re-marry after you got the horse, right?
40:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
40:44
[SPEAKER_00]: But now he's saying that anybody that re-marries that woman afterwards is committing that altering and she's committing adultery.
40:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's the thing though.
40:52
[SPEAKER_01]: This originally was supposed to protect women from being traded out as they aged out.
41:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So, um, a man with like, Mary, a 14 year old and then, you know, she turns 25 and he's like, oh my god, you're such an old hag, I find you displeasing in my eye and then he just divorces a, because he turned her displeasing.
41:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
41:15
[SPEAKER_01]: right and so then he there is another 14 year old meanwhile this is you know 10 years later so now he was 50 now he's 60 still marrying a 14 year old.
41:25
[SPEAKER_01]: It was supposed to be to protect women from being discarded so easily.
41:30
[SPEAKER_00]: No and that that aspect of it makes sense.
41:33
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a bandaid on the bigger problem which is that women were considered property and could be traded out in the
41:43
[SPEAKER_00]: had a look.
41:43
[SPEAKER_01]: How do we treat it when it is people?
41:46
[SPEAKER_00]: The fact that Jesus said these things about strengthening, you know, the punishment, like you can't get remarried or you're committing it all for you.
41:55
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't, you know, all these things, right?
41:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it just kind of solidifies in specifically with the Son of God that women are property.
42:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
42:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's the problematic aspect of this is that Jesus literally solidified
42:14
[SPEAKER_01]: instead of instead of addressing the problem, the woman problem, right?
42:19
[SPEAKER_01]: He looks at all of these fucking lusty ass men and horn dogs and says, stop trading out your wives.
42:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Keep the one you got.
42:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Instead of saying, everybody divorce your wives right now, you're all single.
42:35
[SPEAKER_01]: We're starting over because women are people too.
42:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
42:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it basically goes on to reinforce the fact that this is men's words written by men for men and not the word of a god who would fucking know better
42:58
[SPEAKER_01]: The same way that the Earth isn't just this one little plot of sand, women are people too, and people from other places and other colors and other thoughts are also people.
43:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, in more importantly than that, I think that, I mean, it's held women down to this day.
43:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
43:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
43:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Like these ideas that permeate through religion, and not just in Christianity, but in religion and general have kept women down.
43:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Like women didn't even have the right to vote in the United States until the 20s, right?
43:27
[SPEAKER_01]: 20s or 30s, I mean, great top ends was, you know, about women's suffragettes, yes, in England, but, um, right.
43:36
[SPEAKER_01]: So, um, these verses are still being litigated in courts today in states that are trying to strip women of being allowed to divorce their husband.
43:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're regressing so hard right now.
43:51
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not even, I mean, like, this is scary.
43:54
[SPEAKER_01]: this is why we are reading the Bible.
43:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
43:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because it is these verses are we are talking back into a very theological state of being in this country.
44:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And to me that is
44:09
[SPEAKER_00]: That is beyond.
44:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So thank you, Jesus, for asking men or demanding that men stop trading out their chattel wives, but maybe you could have gone a step further and chastise them for treating their wives as chattel.
44:29
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, as long as we're on the topic, thank you Supreme Court for writing in pencil that abortions could kind of be allowed, but maybe you could have gone a step further and fucking codified it into law instead of leaving it in pencil, so it could be erased by a drunk ass piece of shit rapist.
44:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
44:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks, appreciate you.
44:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
44:54
[SPEAKER_01]: You know?
44:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyways, so then we go on to verse 38 and 39 still in chapter five, you have heard it was said.
45:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I for an eye and tooth for a tooth.
45:10
[SPEAKER_01]: But I tell ya, do not resist an evil person.
45:14
[SPEAKER_01]: If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.
45:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And we were like, okay, he's saying, don't be vindictive, I can see that, but I can also see, you punch me a couple times, I am gonna eventually fight back.
45:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
45:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think we're fully getting the message, but let's see what he's drawing from when in the, you have heard that it was said,
45:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
45:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Exodus, chapter 21.
45:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Always Exodus.
45:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Always Exodus.
45:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, sometimes it was due to honor.
45:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
45:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
45:47
[SPEAKER_01]: versus 22 through 25.
45:50
[SPEAKER_01]: If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman, and she gives birth prematurely or has a miscarriage, but there is no serious injury.
45:58
[SPEAKER_01]: The offender must be find whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows.
46:03
[SPEAKER_01]: But if there is a serious injury, you are to take life for life.
46:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I for I, tooth for tooth hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.
46:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
46:16
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm not really sure that the whole you have heard it here, like that was less about vengeance and more about property damage.
46:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
46:30
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
46:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
46:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Property damage including the loss of a child.
46:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
46:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Because the child was your property.
46:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, um, it also comes from Leviticus chapter 24 though.
46:44
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's read that versus 17 through 22.
46:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyone who takes the life of a human being is to be put to death.
46:51
[SPEAKER_01]: So murderers get murdered.
46:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyone who takes the life of someone's animal must take restitution life for life.
47:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So pay a fee.
47:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyone who injures their neighbor is to be injured in the same manner.
47:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Factor for fracture, I for I tooth for tooth.
47:08
[SPEAKER_01]: The one who has inflicted the injury must suffer the same injury.
47:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Whoever kills an animal must make restitution, but whoever kills a human being is to be put to death some murderers get murdered.
47:21
[SPEAKER_01]: you are to have the same law for the foreigner and the native born.
47:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't care whether is somebody from here or not, this law applies.
47:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I am the larger God.
47:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
47:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
47:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
47:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Remember when I told you that they were like super performative about their good deeds and their well on following the law.
47:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
47:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And shaming each other into performing.
47:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So there was this one thing that I read that said, so let's say a dude is already missing an eye, right?
47:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
47:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And somebody comes along and smacks the fuck out of them or stabs them or whatever and he loses his other eye.
48:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
48:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
48:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
48:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you did the same thing to the perpetrator that I for an eye.
48:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
48:14
[SPEAKER_01]: That one guy is not it's not an equal punish.
48:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, because you guys completely blind now.
48:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
48:21
[SPEAKER_00]: It's still as yeah.
48:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so the performative thing would have been now we got a blind both of you are sure eyes to make it all even out that's like what they were talking about like.
48:35
[SPEAKER_01]: On the one hand, I'm like, whoa, yeah, you blinded the guy for life.
48:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, right.
48:41
[SPEAKER_01]: As well, you should be, but then on the other hand, it's like, they were taking it to such a degree that it was like, whoa, hanging on now.
48:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, right.
48:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So Matthew is more likely when he says, resist not evil, he's more likely saying,
49:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, don't be late.
49:08
[SPEAKER_01]: What was it?
49:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I forgot what it was.
49:13
[SPEAKER_01]: To turn the other cheek kind of thing.
49:16
[SPEAKER_01]: He's saying don't repel one outrage by committing another.
49:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And don't just repel the evil, like repel the evil person.
49:31
[SPEAKER_01]: What the other is, I don't know.
49:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what I'm trying to say.
49:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
49:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Does that make sense?
49:37
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
49:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, okay.
49:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm assuming you put on gathering from what you were saying is that.
49:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Basically, don't commit an atrocity just because somebody else committed an atrocity.
49:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
49:51
[SPEAKER_00]: But I don't know if that's exactly where you're going.
49:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm really my notes.
49:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, I think I actually had to leave but like a whole couple sentences is missing.
50:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, what do I mean there?
50:03
[SPEAKER_01]: So where is his turn to him also the other cheek?
50:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
50:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Rather than avenging yourself, be ready to suffer patiently a repetition because they're going to get their due injury.
50:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And whatever it's like for whatever it's not on you to fix it.
50:18
[SPEAKER_00]: This is part of the way that they were like, I've got to take care of it.
50:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Prepping for the afterlife.
50:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, good to say.
50:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
50:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is different from some of the teachings in the Old Testament.
50:28
[SPEAKER_00]: The Old Testament was very much I for an eye.
50:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
50:32
[SPEAKER_00]: that reading in this speech was much different because he was like, no, you should suffer, and like, God take care of it.
50:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
50:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
50:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Which I have some things to say about that further in.
50:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
50:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
50:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
50:47
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is the last, the second to last thing from chapter five.
50:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Chapter five was the longest.
50:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Which I think we might cut this down to like a couple of episodes.
51:01
[SPEAKER_01]: So, okay, in chapter, no, I'm sorry, yeah, in chapter, no verse 41, I keep getting my chapters in my verses mixed up and like we're in Matthew, we're in Matthew chapter five, so that makes us a verse.
51:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Bruce 41.
51:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
51:20
[SPEAKER_01]: If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles.
51:23
[SPEAKER_01]: There's actually some history in that.
51:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of times people put the, um, you know, go the extra mile one with the turn the other cheek one.
51:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
51:33
[SPEAKER_01]: But they're actually separate.
51:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
51:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
51:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually didn't know the go the extra miles from the Bible.
51:38
[SPEAKER_00]: But
51:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't either until I was reading.
51:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
51:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
51:41
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the verse is literally, if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them, two miles.
51:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
51:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
51:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And it sounds like, you know, well, that's where the saying go the extra mile comes from.
51:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
51:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And it sounds like it's the same thing as turn the other cheek, but it's not.
51:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Go the extra mile comes from Roman military oppression.
52:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Roman soldiers could legally force civilians to carry their gear for one mile, so go with him two miles would have sounded extremely politically shocking, because like if that Roman soldier comes up to you and he's like demanding you to go with him the one mile, go with him both miles, just nice them to death basically, give him whatever he's asking for, don't fight
52:29
[SPEAKER_01]: just do it, do it, and do it even more, okay?
52:35
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an actual imperial occupation that is happening that Jesus is referencing here.
52:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Interesting.
52:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and so listeners would have heard this as a
52:52
[SPEAKER_01]: and exposing oppressive systems and refusing to be resentful about it.
52:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
53:00
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's kind of cool.
53:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so he was pulling like a Martin Luther King Jr. kind of, um, you know, nonviolent resistance.
53:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
53:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Like nice them.
53:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's just show them what we really are.
53:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
53:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Show them what we are.
53:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's show them what we stand for.
53:17
[SPEAKER_01]: exactly, exactly.
53:20
[SPEAKER_01]: It's one reason that this sermon in particular has inspired pacifist movements through the ages, which I didn't really, but that's why you're supposed to give them the extra mile like you're supposed to, again, nice them to death.
53:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
53:36
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's part of like, you know, people will always say to show people your faith, not her to lead what I don't know.
53:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
53:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And actions are louder than words, which I will reference later on again.
53:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
53:51
[SPEAKER_00]: There's that there is an aspect of that in religion that I had heard in the past.
53:57
[SPEAKER_00]: And probably it's still used today, but not like now it is definitely way more performative than it was when I was younger.
54:05
[SPEAKER_00]: But there used to be a lot of people who very much silently did things to show that they were, you know, to show who they were.
54:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And, and I actually kind of live through, I like that idea, I like that.
54:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think that is more of a spiritual and philosophical practice than a religious one that's just who you are as a person and you either are that way or you're not it's not really something you can teach no it's absolutely not it's kind of like either you get it or you don't like are you nice or aren't you right although empathy can be taught it is just very difficult.
54:52
[SPEAKER_01]: if you don't already have some somewhere existing.
54:57
[SPEAKER_01]: You may not have empathy for certain people or certain causes, right?
55:01
[SPEAKER_01]: But you have empathy for something else.
55:03
[SPEAKER_01]: So empathy is like a muscle that can be stretched and grown to encompass other people and other causes.
55:10
[SPEAKER_01]: But you have to have it in the first place.
55:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And some people are just selfish, digs, and are not empathetic.
55:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And they just shrivel up.
55:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Like Trump.
55:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And my ex.
55:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's see, moving on to verse 46.
55:32
[SPEAKER_01]: If you love those, if you love those who love you, what reward will you get?
55:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you not even the tax, are not even the tax collectors doing that?
55:43
[SPEAKER_01]: So we had questions about that, like the fuck even does that mean.
55:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And I did remember that text collectors were super hated back then.
55:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Generally they are, yeah.
55:55
[SPEAKER_01]: So, but even the text collectors are loved by their own family, right?
55:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
56:01
[SPEAKER_01]: He's saying it's easy to love the people that you love, but it's much more difficult to love others.
56:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
56:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And, um, but there's some more history and, um,
56:16
[SPEAKER_01]: politics in this as well.
56:19
[SPEAKER_01]: So the word that's actually used is publicans, which is tax gatherers.
56:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And of these two classes, of these there were two classes, the superior who were Romans of the equestrian order and then the inferior, which is those who were mentioned in the
56:43
[SPEAKER_01]: those appear to mostly have been the Jews.
56:46
[SPEAKER_01]: They were the inferior, which is the story of the Jews, basically.
56:51
[SPEAKER_01]: They're always on the bottom in the Bible.
56:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
56:55
[SPEAKER_01]: In their perspective.
56:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
56:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
56:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So the class of men, this class of men was detestable among the Romans, the Greeks,
57:13
[SPEAKER_01]: the tax gathers at the bottom were just the absolute fucking worst is because they had to be the ones that actually went and said give me the fucking money right or whatever right now well there were two types of tax collectors the ones that dealt with the rich and they were fine well yeah because rich people have money to give yeah poor people don't have money exactly and they're sitting the look this is this is the same scenario where
57:42
[SPEAKER_00]: If all your, if your entire job is dealing with people who don't have money and you've got to take money from them, you're going to be a miserable son of a bitch.
57:50
[SPEAKER_01]: You are.
57:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you know, like, yeah.
57:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean, like, it's, you, you are, you are dealing with people.
58:00
[SPEAKER_00]: daily who can't afford to do the thing you're asking them to do and they're going to get angry at you and then you're going to see nothing but anger from all these people which in turn is going to make you kind of a miserable human being.
58:11
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it's so true.
58:12
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so true.
58:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So they were a hoard in a very special manner by the Jews to whom the Roman government was odious, okay?
58:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, they hated the Roman government, but even more so did the Jews hate their own tax collectors which you just enumerated, reasons why.
58:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Those individuals,
58:37
[SPEAKER_01]: were assisting in collecting the Roman tribute and were considered as betrayers of the liberties of their country and a better of those who enslaved it.
58:51
[SPEAKER_00]: So I guess, I mean, but at the same time,
58:54
[SPEAKER_01]: a job's a job's a job's a job's a job's a job.
58:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, like somebody somebody was going to have to do it, whether it be one of your own people or whether it be one of the Romans, you know, somewhere else, and at that point, it's going to be at the point of a sword because, you know, like rather than you're speaking, right?
59:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's not a, it's not a matter of
59:11
[SPEAKER_00]: whether this is like you should.
59:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Why should you hate this person?
59:15
[SPEAKER_00]: They're saving you from a worst fate by being the one that collects as opposed to the the people who are actually oppressing you.
59:22
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the don't hate the messenger hate the message or don't hate the message or the messenger messenger.
59:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but you should actually shoot the guy who sent it.
59:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
59:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, don't shoot anybody, but you know, but right.
59:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.
59:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, one question or one quotation from an early piece of literature will show in what detestation they were held among the Greeks.
59:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I loved this.
59:53
[SPEAKER_01]: The awkwardess on being asked which of the wild beasts were the most cruel answered bears and lions in the mountains and tax gatherers in the city.
1:00:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that joke, it's still being told to this day in different format.
1:00:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
1:00:13
[SPEAKER_01]: You know?
1:00:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, ho-ho-ho, who's the coolest creature of them all?
1:00:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And we, now we say lawyers, but it could just as easily have been text collectors, you know, the IRS.
1:00:26
[SPEAKER_00]: But lawyers are like, because we have some lawyers, not all lawyers.
1:00:30
[SPEAKER_00]: There are many great good lawyers out there.
1:00:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Legal, equal, I am with you.
1:00:36
[SPEAKER_00]: But there are many who are, I mean, the short version of the call, we call them ambulance chasers, right?
1:00:44
[SPEAKER_00]: They seek out opportunities to make money for someone that they expense with somebody else.
1:00:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, and they will drain someone dried because of a mistake in their life.
1:00:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And I look, that's not to say that there are times when something happens to a person and they deserve that money, right?
1:01:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Because they were, their life was wrong.
1:01:06
[SPEAKER_00]: but probably just as many times where the lawyer took advantage of a situation and and rung the other person dry, you know, then that's why those bad connotations, those bad ideas about lawyers that we have exist.
1:01:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
1:01:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
1:01:23
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
1:01:23
[SPEAKER_01]: So.
1:01:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Chapter five concluded with that whole be perfect and we were like just be perfect.
1:01:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, you know.
1:01:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:01:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And it kind of sounds impossible because it is.
1:01:35
[SPEAKER_01]: It is.
1:01:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:01:36
[SPEAKER_01]: But here's the thing.
1:01:37
[SPEAKER_01]: The translation on that is real messy.
1:01:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And it probably wasn't exactly like just be perfect.
1:01:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
1:01:43
[SPEAKER_01]: The Greek word used here to lay Ios.
1:01:48
[SPEAKER_01]: and also mean complete mature, whole, and fully developed.
1:01:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
1:01:54
[SPEAKER_01]: So the verse doesn't actually mean never make mistakes.
1:01:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So much as try to become fully formed in love and mercy.
1:02:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that is such a much better message.
1:02:07
[SPEAKER_01]: It's still demanding, but it's less absurdly perfectionist.
1:02:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's one that like, okay, that encapsulates chapter five.
1:02:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I see what you're,
1:02:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I see where you're going with that.
1:02:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
1:02:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, we come in on this at the time.
1:02:20
[SPEAKER_00]: The overall message wasn't terrible, it was a pretty good message.
1:02:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, the things that we're nitpicking are the parts where it gets a little to fire and brimstone.
1:02:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that we're going to have more things to pick through later with regard to what is going to come up in.
1:02:43
[SPEAKER_00]: and Paul, or what it wouldn't Paul's.
1:02:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I don't do that when you know what the fuck is, but you know, he doesn't have a book, though.
1:02:51
[SPEAKER_00]: He's sure, he's just, whatever.
1:02:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know anything about Paul, but we've been told that it's a thing.
1:02:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And his Jesus is different from Matthew's Jesus.
1:03:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this version of Jesus that we're reading right now in Matthew?
1:03:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Not so bad.
1:03:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Not so bad and significantly different from the Old Testament God.
1:03:08
[SPEAKER_01]: He's definitely different from y'all way.
1:03:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
1:03:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I will say that, and he definitely either adds to or reinterprets the always messages, and I was told God doesn't change his mind, multiple times, even unto the last decade I was told this by people.
1:03:28
[SPEAKER_00]: If you were told that, but as we even as we were reading through the Old Testament,
1:03:32
[SPEAKER_00]: We saw the fire and brimstone light meme as we went along so they it became less as as the time frame got closer to
1:03:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Jesus' time.
1:03:44
[SPEAKER_00]: The the the hardening of the religion kind of became less like it was not.
1:03:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Not only that, but there were times that he did change his mind.
1:03:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah.
1:03:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean Moses talked him out of spite and people.
1:03:57
[SPEAKER_01]: That's true.
1:03:58
[SPEAKER_00]: That's true.
1:03:58
[SPEAKER_01]: He did fucking change his mind.
1:04:00
[SPEAKER_01]: He changed his mind when he drowned out the planet.
1:04:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
1:04:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's because we're dealing with people and people change their minds.
1:04:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
1:04:09
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, that might be a bit much.
1:04:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, and so, they change their God because they can because God is just a written down.
1:04:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Because they can and they realize they should.
1:04:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
1:04:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:04:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe one day we'll have a God that people believe in where women aren't chattel.
1:04:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I maybe I don't know.
1:04:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And people of color.
1:04:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think we really need a god.
1:04:34
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I don't need a god.
1:04:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we, I think hopefully one day we get to a point where we don't need gods.
1:04:40
[SPEAKER_00]: That would be my hope.
1:04:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I would like philosophy and nature and science.
1:04:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:04:49
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, how we apply those in a grander circle.
1:04:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
1:04:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I philosophy's a...
1:04:57
[SPEAKER_00]: That's, you could, you could wrap Christiana the end of philosophy.
1:05:01
[SPEAKER_01]: But what philosophy is how we should behave and how we might behave and how we do behave.
1:05:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
1:05:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And that, I said philosophy rather than spirituality because philosophy is more sociology-based, which is a soft science.
1:05:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
1:05:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:05:21
[SPEAKER_00]: ish ish.
1:05:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Sociology has a lot of like you can measure a lot of sociological things as well.
1:05:27
[SPEAKER_00]: So like hey again philosophy is one of those things where it's it's stickier like it's not there's that you can you can argue different points of philosophy that means there's a lot of arguments that could be had there.
1:05:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I I think it's queues into the realm of the arts and literature and that kind of thing like analyzing literature.
1:05:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
1:05:50
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I mean, I think the point that I would make is that as long as we're having discussions about what we believe and don't believe, and as long as we're moving forward with ideas in this world which doesn't seem to be the case right now, I'll be happier.
1:06:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I think when religions allow you to treat each other in cruel fashions and to own other people, your religion sucks.
1:06:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And you can call it what you want, but I'm not here for it.
1:06:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
1:06:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:06:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we're going to wrap this up for today, for probably today.
1:06:23
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to do the other one, probably tomorrow or something like that.
1:06:25
[SPEAKER_00]: But um, we're that got a little long on the Matthew chapter five.
1:06:29
[SPEAKER_01]: So sorry.
1:06:30
[SPEAKER_01]: So that way.
1:06:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Sermon on the mound recap part one.
1:06:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:06:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And will we back next time with?
1:06:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, Sermon on the mound part two chapter six and probably seven.
1:06:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
1:06:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Little Matty.
1:06:45
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll see you then.
1:06:46
[UNKNOWN]: Bye.