Latest / The Steve Harvey Morning Show / Author, Zakiyah Dalila Harris, talks inspiration behind her New York Time's Best Seller & Hulu Deal

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Author, Zakiyah Dalila Harris, talks inspiration behind her New York Time's Best Seller & Hulu Deal · The Steve Harvey Morning Show

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Speaker 1: Learn how a belonging begins with us dot org. Brought
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Speaker 1: to you by the AD Council. My next guest is
1:01
Speaker 1: Sakia Dalila Harris. She lives in Brooklyn and George writing
1:05
Speaker 1: about her black culture, literature and oldies music. We really
1:09
Speaker 1: got to get into that because she's on the thirties
1:11
Speaker 1: and she's on the third of that oldis music. You know,
1:13
Speaker 1: I don't know if there's the oldies go to the
1:15
Speaker 1: new edition, or there's an old school beyond new additions,
1:18
Speaker 1: because the oldies it's how older, my older might be different.
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Speaker 1: She holds her master's in Fine Arts and created writing
1:24
Speaker 1: from the new school. She has made a splash with
1:26
Speaker 1: her first novel, The Other Black Girl. It sets in
1:29
Speaker 1: New York's publican world. The psychological thriller incorporates social commentary
1:34
Speaker 1: and about diversity in the workplace and the challenges black
1:37
Speaker 1: women often have to navigate. The Other Black Girl was
1:40
Speaker 1: bid on by fourteen hear Me fourteen publishing offices before
1:44
Speaker 1: landing a seventh figure deal for her first novel. So
1:46
Speaker 1: you probably wonder why she's smiled. That's why she smiled
1:49
Speaker 1: the seventh figure deal. She's not smiling because she's likes
1:51
Speaker 1: from Sean McDonald. She smiled because she had a seventh
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Speaker 1: biggie deal and I know what that looks like. And
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Speaker 1: it's also said to become a big hit television series
1:59
Speaker 1: on Hulu. That's another reason why she smiled. And uh
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Speaker 1: written alongside Rahisa Jone, which we don't joan with a
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Speaker 1: Quincy Jones daughter, very talented actress. She's on the show
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Speaker 1: to discussed building your dream please, working to mind and
2:11
Speaker 1: making conversation Zakia Zechia, Delila Harris. How are you doing?
2:17
Speaker 1: I'm doing great with that introduction you just gave me.
2:21
Speaker 1: It was a little fun worked in today because of
2:23
Speaker 1: the fact that you know, we should be happy. We
2:25
Speaker 1: should you you're you're that age you call a millennial age,
2:29
Speaker 1: you know, and you know you you jumped out there
2:31
Speaker 1: and you put to use work in another job. And
2:34
Speaker 1: why did you leave your job to introduce yourself in
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Speaker 1: the world of a novelist. Yeah, well, you know, I
2:41
Speaker 1: gotta say I have loved writing since I was five,
2:45
Speaker 1: or maybe even before then, whenever I first learned how
2:48
Speaker 1: to write. So I've always wanted to be a writer.
2:51
Speaker 1: My dad is a writer as well, so very early
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Speaker 1: on I saw that as a possible career trajectory for me. Um,
2:58
Speaker 1: and as I got older, I kept writing. Um kind
3:02
Speaker 1: of realized I'd have to do other things also because
3:05
Speaker 1: it's hard to be a writer, hence publishing. But I
3:09
Speaker 1: also loved breaking with writers and talking about structure and
3:13
Speaker 1: writing on a micro level. So all of those things
3:17
Speaker 1: kind of led me here. But ultimately for me, you know,
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Speaker 1: after a couple of years of working and publishing. I
3:24
Speaker 1: just knew I couldn't work on my own writing if
3:27
Speaker 1: I was putting myself into other authors. So I was like,
3:30
Speaker 1: you know what, let me just invest in this, see
3:32
Speaker 1: it through, um, leave this permanent, well paid, well not
3:36
Speaker 1: well paying, but paying, and help stop. Yes, playing New
3:41
Speaker 1: York and trying to figure this out and it worked out. Well,
3:46
Speaker 1: let's let's slow it down a little bit. Because you
3:48
Speaker 1: know your novelist and you're saying that you were watching
3:52
Speaker 1: other people's work. Did that help you? Did it allow
3:55
Speaker 1: you to see? You know, because a lot of books
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Speaker 1: get published, a lot of published don't get sold. Okay,
4:00
Speaker 1: we know that for a fact. So and being a
4:02
Speaker 1: person who getting to see and being able to critique
4:05
Speaker 1: and being able to discuss work with other other people
4:08
Speaker 1: in your position, what did you learn from that? Oh? Absolutely?
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Speaker 1: That was that was huge for me, um being on Well,
4:16
Speaker 1: first of all, I should say before I went into publishing,
4:19
Speaker 1: I did my fe and nonfiction writing, so I was
4:21
Speaker 1: very used to having people um critique my my world
4:25
Speaker 1: and my life. I was literally writing personal essays about
4:29
Speaker 1: my own insecurities and my own questioning of you know,
4:32
Speaker 1: who I was and where I'm from from Connecticut. Um,
4:36
Speaker 1: So all of those things. Having eyes in my work
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Speaker 1: in that way helped, and then being eyes on someone
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Speaker 1: else's work character when I was working editorial, because yeah,
4:45
Speaker 1: you're so right, Like, there are so many great stories
4:47
Speaker 1: out there that never get a publisher for various reasons,
4:52
Speaker 1: and there are so many hurdles, um. And I was
4:56
Speaker 1: aware of all of those things. But I also thankfully
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Speaker 1: knew how to navigate this world and knew all of
5:01
Speaker 1: the steps that go into it. And you know, for me,
5:05
Speaker 1: that was really empowering to be able to be like, Okay,
5:08
Speaker 1: here is the function that an agent is supposed to have.
5:12
Speaker 1: I want to find the right person who will represent
5:14
Speaker 1: me and be someone who is understanding what I'm trying
5:19
Speaker 1: to do and advocate for me in the way that
5:22
Speaker 1: I need to be advocated for. It also allows me
5:24
Speaker 1: to advocate for myself. You know what I mean? Absolutely? Um,
5:27
Speaker 1: I'm speaking with the author of the very popular book
5:30
Speaker 1: The Other Black Girl is going to become a television
5:32
Speaker 1: serious or Hulu Zakia, Zakia. When you talk about writing,
5:37
Speaker 1: what makes a good writing you know what writer or
5:39
Speaker 1: what makes a good storyteller? Because I just look background
5:42
Speaker 1: on me. I started out in Hollywood is a sitcom
5:45
Speaker 1: writers series like Sister Sister gooda oldies all. You know,
5:49
Speaker 1: that's me, Sister Sister Jamie. You know, Parenthood the Parker,
5:54
Speaker 1: that was me, That was me and so and that
5:56
Speaker 1: was a different style of writing and now and I
5:59
Speaker 1: we are not in the same class. Okay, because it's
6:02
Speaker 1: storytelling that you're doing. Allows you to even talk about
6:05
Speaker 1: looking at the thread in your clothing as you talk
6:08
Speaker 1: about you at the beginning of the book, you know,
6:10
Speaker 1: and looking over your shoulders. It comes you go to
6:12
Speaker 1: the joke, to go to the moment, Go to the joke,
6:14
Speaker 1: go to the moment. But in your world, because I
6:16
Speaker 1: have a lot of listeners who want to be writers
6:19
Speaker 1: or who want to get their stuff published, material published,
6:22
Speaker 1: what makes a good story writer or storyteller? And what
6:25
Speaker 1: is good writing? Mm, that's such a good question. Um.
6:30
Speaker 1: I think that it depends on who the person is.
6:33
Speaker 1: But I know for me, uh, being just engaged in
6:37
Speaker 1: the world, UM was really helpful. UM. I love people watching.
6:42
Speaker 1: I also love meeting new people. I've worked a lot
6:44
Speaker 1: of jobs that required me to talk to people very
6:47
Speaker 1: different backgrounds from me. UM, and just understanding people or
6:52
Speaker 1: trying to understand people. I think that both such a
6:55
Speaker 1: long way when you're trying to write a story. UM.
6:59
Speaker 1: I would also say reading, just reading makes a good storyteller. UM.
7:06
Speaker 1: I was really into reading as a kid, and I
7:09
Speaker 1: will say, like I kind of fell off in high
7:11
Speaker 1: school because I was required to read a lot of
7:13
Speaker 1: things that I didn't want to have to read. UM.
7:16
Speaker 1: But I did find other writers. In college I took
7:19
Speaker 1: I majored in English literature, so I was also taking
7:23
Speaker 1: classes on a Russian literature class. I took a class
7:26
Speaker 1: and Black literature, a lot of which I'd never heard
7:29
Speaker 1: of authors that I've never been introduced to in high school,
7:32
Speaker 1: like Niki Giovanni and and um Bell Hooks and so
7:35
Speaker 1: all of those kind of things. I think that comes
7:38
Speaker 1: with being introverted, um, but also being extroverted UM as
7:43
Speaker 1: much as possible. It's it's hard now, I think, especially
7:46
Speaker 1: this is the world is where it is you used
7:48
Speaker 1: or introverted. I'm looking at you now, we was introversion.
7:52
Speaker 1: I would just make up a word. We was introversion
7:54
Speaker 1: in your life? Okay, I'm saying it's very beautiful. Smile kid.
8:00
Speaker 1: I have to say the word magnetic personality and I've
8:02
Speaker 1: just seen you on a screen zoom screen here. So
8:05
Speaker 1: when did introverted party become boy five years old? Six years?
8:09
Speaker 1: It wasn't recent, It was not recent. Okay, talk to
8:11
Speaker 1: me about that. Turned Did you just threw out in
8:14
Speaker 1: front of the in the middle of this interview? You know,
8:16
Speaker 1: I am pretty I call myself an introverted extrovert. Where
8:23
Speaker 1: I was like, let me get the order, because I
8:27
Speaker 1: am I am someone whom I mean, this isn't necessarily
8:31
Speaker 1: an introvert, but I am someone who is in my
8:33
Speaker 1: head a lot, and that helped me with this book
8:36
Speaker 1: because Nella is in her head all the time, and
8:39
Speaker 1: it can be hard to be in her head. Sometimes
8:40
Speaker 1: you want to get out. And that's why I have
8:42
Speaker 1: the other characters partly, um and why we see her
8:45
Speaker 1: in her her world with Malake, outside of the suppressive environment.
8:49
Speaker 1: Um So, so i'd say that's that's where. And I
8:52
Speaker 1: can also be shy, and I can also kind of
8:55
Speaker 1: sometimes takes me time or especially as a younger person.
8:58
Speaker 1: But this is something now that I am in affair
9:00
Speaker 1: and I do have this platform unfortunate enough to have
9:04
Speaker 1: the space to speak on certain things. Um. But I
9:06
Speaker 1: know when I was in publishing starting out, I just
9:09
Speaker 1: went with the flow um and felt like that was
9:12
Speaker 1: what I had to do because I was one of
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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the U. S. Forest Service, your
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Speaker 1: state Forrester and the AD Council. Well, you know, luck
11:46
Speaker 1: and talent. It's gonna be real. You know, I'm talking
11:48
Speaker 1: to the key, you know, the other black girl. That's
11:51
Speaker 1: tough book. New York Times best Selling out the best
11:54
Speaker 1: selling book, name most anticipated book of twenty one by
11:57
Speaker 1: Time Magazine, to Washington Post, here did Harper's Bizarre, Herald,
12:01
Speaker 1: Entertainment Weekly, Bustle, BuzzFeed, Parade, good Reads, Fortune, and BBC.
12:07
Speaker 1: They've they've described your book as get Out meets the Devils,
12:11
Speaker 1: where it's proud of this. You know, that's their version
12:13
Speaker 1: of it. You know my version of the book was
12:16
Speaker 1: that I've worked in a corporate environment, uh and where
12:20
Speaker 1: I was maybe the one of the few blacks in
12:23
Speaker 1: the on the floor, great working environment because they it
12:27
Speaker 1: was our diversity, it was diversified. So I wasn't like
12:29
Speaker 1: this character who was hoping and wishing that they will
12:32
Speaker 1: see somebody like them, just somebody walked through the door.
12:35
Speaker 1: They can be there so she can communicate and feel
12:37
Speaker 1: a sense of wholeness and that that really is the
12:41
Speaker 1: core of the story. Now, when you start developing a
12:43
Speaker 1: story like this, to kill what said it to your mind?
12:47
Speaker 1: Because like you said, you're in your head and this
12:49
Speaker 1: story is kind of uh. I want to use the
12:51
Speaker 1: word Stephen King type or Jordan's Peel type. So because
12:56
Speaker 1: I want to go back a little bit because when
12:57
Speaker 1: you your reference, you reference twilights on you ever lost
13:00
Speaker 1: off my age? You know what I'm saying. You reach
13:01
Speaker 1: the old music. You mentioned green in your book, and
13:05
Speaker 1: you gotta One of your character's name is Hazel. I
13:07
Speaker 1: don't know you, Hazel. I don't care who you are.
13:10
Speaker 1: I don't know no millennial name Hazel. Now my age,
13:13
Speaker 1: I went to your school with a girl named Hazel,
13:15
Speaker 1: so I know that's an old name. So let's talk
13:17
Speaker 1: about being in your head and the fun the fundness
13:21
Speaker 1: of these characters. They're fully fleshed out and the process
13:24
Speaker 1: of coming together and laying out that this book became
13:27
Speaker 1: so anticipated and not playing out as a well read
13:30
Speaker 1: novel and eventually be a television series on Who the
13:33
Speaker 1: Floor Is Yours? Miss introverted Well, I first got to say, um, Hazel,
13:40
Speaker 1: the name comes from um one of my Well, I'm
13:44
Speaker 1: just gonna say my favorite aunts. I'm telling your old name.
13:48
Speaker 1: I told you, thank you. And she was just such
13:53
Speaker 1: a wonderful, wonderful soul, wonderful human. Um I was kind
13:58
Speaker 1: of everybody baby, and I just love the name. And
14:01
Speaker 1: so I was like, I want to write a character
14:03
Speaker 1: who's has this name. So that's actually where anypol came from.
14:07
Speaker 1: I let you brought that up. But yeah, I mean
14:10
Speaker 1: so when I first started writing this story, I had
14:13
Speaker 1: just the simple idea of Nella and Hazel, and something's
14:17
Speaker 1: messed up about Hazel. I didn't know what it was
14:19
Speaker 1: going to be. I just knew that they were going
14:21
Speaker 1: to have a hard time because of this environment that
14:26
Speaker 1: is very white and made up of a lot of
14:28
Speaker 1: white people who are constantly watching them and assuming what
14:32
Speaker 1: their relationship is going to be like. And then that
14:35
Speaker 1: on top of what Nella assumes the relationship is going
14:38
Speaker 1: to be like because she has this whole idea of like, oh,
14:41
Speaker 1: we're both natural, we're both in this space. We must
14:43
Speaker 1: have had similar experiences, we must have a similar outlook
14:47
Speaker 1: on being black in this space. But we don't all
14:50
Speaker 1: think the same thing. We all have an opinions, and
14:53
Speaker 1: not everybody is out there to help everybody else, and
14:56
Speaker 1: everyone has their own kind of boundaries and their own
14:58
Speaker 1: idea of code switching, and their an idea of selling
15:00
Speaker 1: out if I may say, um, and what makes this
15:04
Speaker 1: thing different, if there is anything, And so all of
15:07
Speaker 1: those are things with nell and Hazel that I was
15:09
Speaker 1: thinking about, and then specifically in terms of Nella because
15:14
Speaker 1: for me, while I was working in book publishing and
15:17
Speaker 1: just in general too, people in my past who have
15:23
Speaker 1: also gone through these things. So I talked to my dad,
15:26
Speaker 1: who worked in a corporate environment in the nineties in
15:29
Speaker 1: New York. I've talked to um other people in publishing
15:33
Speaker 1: who worked in publishing years before it is what it
15:35
Speaker 1: is now and their experiences. So I felt like with Nella,
15:39
Speaker 1: there needed to be this beacon and the way that
15:41
Speaker 1: Tony Morrison was for me working in book publishing because
15:44
Speaker 1: she had also worked in editorial once spint a time.
15:47
Speaker 1: I knew Nella would have that beacon as well, and
15:49
Speaker 1: it came in the Diana. Now let's talk about the book.
15:54
Speaker 1: You know, I've unfortunate with Steve Harvey. Three Noble one
15:58
Speaker 1: bestselling books there were number one is really and then
16:01
Speaker 1: not just a word that's that's a powerful word. And uh,
16:04
Speaker 1: I remember the first book you Think like I'm In,
16:06
Speaker 1: which eventually was sold more than three million copies. And
16:10
Speaker 1: also it was translated in thirty different language, which I'm
16:13
Speaker 1: sure this book is being translated as we speak, if
16:15
Speaker 1: it hasn't already been done. Um, going in and senior book, okay,
16:21
Speaker 1: in a store or at the airport, let's talk about that,
16:25
Speaker 1: because I know I used to go in the store.
16:27
Speaker 1: I should look, Oh, that is Steve there. We just
16:30
Speaker 1: joke around and I take my book his book and
16:32
Speaker 1: move it up and move it around, you know, going
16:35
Speaker 1: to a store, you know, and say, hey, what why
16:38
Speaker 1: is this book back there? Do you know? Do you
16:40
Speaker 1: know the author named Steve Harvey? You know it's a comedian.
16:43
Speaker 1: Has this a little book called thinking Like? Talk us
16:45
Speaker 1: about that, because that's so much fun, you know, because
16:48
Speaker 1: you work real hard and you're covered clearly as as
16:51
Speaker 1: a statement covered the other black girl talk about that
16:55
Speaker 1: part of it, and then allowing your family to experience
16:58
Speaker 1: going out there and seeing it on the shields as well. Yeah,
17:03
Speaker 1: that part has been so cool. It's been so cool,
17:06
Speaker 1: I mean because you imagine what it's gonna be like
17:09
Speaker 1: and you just can't possibly know. And to go into
17:13
Speaker 1: the store and see this cover that UM had, yeah,
17:17
Speaker 1: I mean, the the best possible story behind the cover,
17:21
Speaker 1: because I know it is hard out there, especially for
17:24
Speaker 1: black authors to get that representation UM in the cover itself.
17:29
Speaker 1: And so for me, when I was writing this book,
17:32
Speaker 1: I knew, of course going into it that as an author,
17:36
Speaker 1: you you do have a say, but depending on your contract,
17:39
Speaker 1: you can only say so much, and at the end
17:40
Speaker 1: of the day, your team the publisher has a lot
17:44
Speaker 1: more say generally UM. But when I went in to
17:48
Speaker 1: those cover conversations, I knew I wanted to have a
17:50
Speaker 1: black artist designed the cover, and my Asian and I
17:54
Speaker 1: sat down and we created a list of black artists
17:57
Speaker 1: that we found on Instagram online and one particular author
18:02
Speaker 1: UM was Emmy Coker and he is a Nigerian born
18:07
Speaker 1: artistic belief, and he created this gorgeous piece of artwork
18:12
Speaker 1: for Twitter's June team last year. It's called and basically
18:20
Speaker 1: the image of the cover. It's a little different, but
18:23
Speaker 1: the thing I loved about it, I mean royalty a
18:27
Speaker 1: profile view of her. You see her, she was looking legal. Um.
18:31
Speaker 1: And you also have that earring which is an Afro
18:34
Speaker 1: pick with our black power fist, which is the kind
18:37
Speaker 1: of pick that I actually got the first time I
18:40
Speaker 1: went natural a few years ago. And it's also a
18:43
Speaker 1: pick that my dad happened to have growing up back
18:45
Speaker 1: when we had hair still so he don't be laughing
18:50
Speaker 1: at your dad and me. Okay, okay, I had the pig.
18:53
Speaker 1: Now I had the pick. We just the same ate
18:56
Speaker 1: summer right now. My dad is like, um. But the
19:02
Speaker 1: fact that you know, this artwork happened. And my designer,
19:08
Speaker 1: who Jimmy Akabelly, who is at Term and Schuster, took
19:12
Speaker 1: that design and made into this cover and the artist
19:14
Speaker 1: of course was so lovely about it too. Tummy Cooker
19:17
Speaker 1: was like, absolutely, we need more black women authors. Um
19:21
Speaker 1: excited to be a part of it. And this is
19:23
Speaker 1: all connected to the pick. It just felt so right
19:26
Speaker 1: and it's so exciting to me that young black people
19:30
Speaker 1: will go into the store, go into Walmart, into that
19:34
Speaker 1: independent bookstore, Barnes and Noble, Google, play whatever and see
19:38
Speaker 1: this image and see just blackness in this way in
19:42
Speaker 1: your face. I just love it. What grows in the
19:45
Speaker 1: forest trees, sure, No what else grows in the forest,
19:49
Speaker 1: Our imagination, our sense of wonder, and our family bonds
19:53
Speaker 1: grow too, because when we disconnect from this and connect
19:59
Speaker 1: with this, we reconnect with each other. The forest is
20:04
Speaker 1: closer than you think. Find a forest near you and
20:07
Speaker 1: start exploring. I discover the forest dot org brought to
20:10
Speaker 1: you by the United States Forest Service and the AD Council.
20:14
Speaker 1: If I could be you and you could be me
20:17
Speaker 1: for just what hour, If you could find a way
20:19
Speaker 1: to get inside each other's mind. Walk a mile in
20:23
Speaker 1: my shoes, wacome mile in my shoes, walcome shoes. We've
20:28
Speaker 1: all felt left out, and for some that feeling lasts
20:31
Speaker 1: more than a moment. We can change that. Learn how
20:35
Speaker 1: it belonging begins with us. Dot org brought to you
20:37
Speaker 1: by the AD Council. Welcome out in the Machine. Adoption
20:45
Speaker 1: of teams from foster care is a topic not enough
20:48
Speaker 1: people know about and we're here to change that. I'm
20:50
Speaker 1: April Dennuity, host of the new podcast Navigating Adoption, presented
20:54
Speaker 1: by adopt Us Kids. Each episode brings you compelling, real
20:57
Speaker 1: life adoption stories told by the family that lived in
21:00
Speaker 1: with commentary from experts. Visit adopt us Kids dot org.
21:04
Speaker 1: Slash podcasts are subscribed to Navigating Adoption presented by adopt
21:08
Speaker 1: Us Kids, brought to you by the U. S Department
21:10
Speaker 1: of Health and Human Services, Administration for Children and Families
21:13
Speaker 1: and the Council. Well, you should love it, and you
21:16
Speaker 1: and it's a blessing to see that happened. And you know,
21:18
Speaker 1: when I when I look at the genres like this
21:21
Speaker 1: to go into that horror it was alway several years
21:23
Speaker 1: ago when you saw horror. On horror movie, we always
21:26
Speaker 1: in a black character. You always do the black character
21:28
Speaker 1: is gonna die first. You always say that was just
21:29
Speaker 1: running joke. The black character's gonna die for. I don't
21:32
Speaker 1: know what that brother, Oh, we got paid he did
21:34
Speaker 1: that clone. But the other black girl. You know, it
21:36
Speaker 1: combines all these extraordinary genres. Is a dark comedy, it's
21:40
Speaker 1: horror as a thriller, plays with your mind, is science
21:42
Speaker 1: fiction and more how were you able to mix all
21:44
Speaker 1: these the same blend them altogether comfortably? Because one thing
21:49
Speaker 1: I want to just say this about you, the kid,
21:51
Speaker 1: is that you are so descriptive in your writing. I mean,
21:55
Speaker 1: it's very detailed and it's on which allows me to
21:58
Speaker 1: really visualize the moment of the scene that you're trying
22:01
Speaker 1: to create, which is a gift in itself, and I
22:04
Speaker 1: feel that's what really kind of got everybody excited because
22:08
Speaker 1: they could feel your experience, They could almost smell your
22:11
Speaker 1: experience and also could emotionally be engaged in your experience
22:15
Speaker 1: from the description of the hair or the big ear
22:18
Speaker 1: rings when y'all are laughing together or sitting at the
22:21
Speaker 1: account and the sun coming through you mean, you even
22:24
Speaker 1: you even wrote balled up the paper, the paper and
22:27
Speaker 1: threw it in the trash. Even you even wrote that
22:29
Speaker 1: in your in your in your language of your book,
22:32
Speaker 1: and it was like, Wow, she is really really on
22:35
Speaker 1: point here talk about weaving all those things together. And
22:38
Speaker 1: that's a strong compliment because, like I said, that's something
22:40
Speaker 1: I can't do, and that's a gift and the blessing
22:42
Speaker 1: that you have. Oh, I really appreciate that so much.
22:47
Speaker 1: Um that means a lot to me. Yeah, I mean
22:50
Speaker 1: for me blending everything, I'm not gonna stay with it
22:54
Speaker 1: because it took a lot of eyes on my work.
22:57
Speaker 1: It took um people that I met during my bad
23:01
Speaker 1: school days. It took my dad, it took my agents
23:05
Speaker 1: and my editor, a lot of people. Um. But for
23:08
Speaker 1: me it was easy in a lot of ways. It's
23:11
Speaker 1: just in the sense of knowing that's what I wanted
23:14
Speaker 1: to do, because I do feel like so much of
23:16
Speaker 1: the Black experience is often humor and fun and joy,
23:22
Speaker 1: but then also there's like a bitterness that we have
23:25
Speaker 1: to often navigate through, and there's a horrifying nature, especially
23:29
Speaker 1: just as black people. Day to day you get up
23:32
Speaker 1: and see the news, see what's happening to us, and
23:35
Speaker 1: then have to go to work or create, and how
23:39
Speaker 1: do you manage all of those things. It's it's horrified,
23:42
Speaker 1: and so really getting that down and showing what was
23:46
Speaker 1: at stake for Nella's experiences, but also seeing Nella having fun,
23:50
Speaker 1: showing her living her full life outside of work, that
23:53
Speaker 1: was that was a really crucial part of the writing
23:57
Speaker 1: process for me. And I guess that doesn't really answer
24:00
Speaker 1: a question, but well answers my question. The sense that
24:03
Speaker 1: you are. You know, I won't to say all over
24:06
Speaker 1: the place, but with the system of story proper storytelling,
24:08
Speaker 1: because I had to be able to you know, like
24:11
Speaker 1: I said, I could relate to her insecurities because there
24:14
Speaker 1: were This book is tied to insecurities. It's because she's
24:17
Speaker 1: pushed along and some of the flaws that pop out
24:20
Speaker 1: of some of the stakes she get into a tied
24:22
Speaker 1: to taking bad suggestions or suggestions that she shouldn't, that
24:27
Speaker 1: she should like lead with her first thought and then
24:29
Speaker 1: it just stumbles and it just starts unraveling. And that's
24:32
Speaker 1: just the part of it that really catches your eye,
24:35
Speaker 1: makes it relatable because we all have been there. And
24:38
Speaker 1: so I'm talking to the author of the incredible book
24:40
Speaker 1: The Other Black Girls, the Other Black Girl, the New
24:42
Speaker 1: York Times best seller names because it's a kid. Before
24:45
Speaker 1: we wrap up, I've mentioned her name earlier on Rashida
24:48
Speaker 1: Jones Uh And the book is being Um, is she
24:51
Speaker 1: gonna start in the or she just gonna take an
24:53
Speaker 1: executive producer role in the Hulu series that the book
24:57
Speaker 1: is being adapted for. Yeah, we're still in the early stages, um,
25:02
Speaker 1: but right now we are co writing the pilot UM episode.
25:09
Speaker 1: We have been you know, talking a lot over the
25:12
Speaker 1: last year now, I guess well, um, just about the
25:16
Speaker 1: shape um outline, how the characters are going to be
25:21
Speaker 1: different in the show versus the and what we do
25:24
Speaker 1: want to keep because the conversations about blackness and diversity
25:29
Speaker 1: have changed, that's in the last year. So exploring that
25:34
Speaker 1: and how to make your show feel as relevant as
25:38
Speaker 1: it could be feeling at the time, that's that's been
25:41
Speaker 1: really interesting and fun because again also we all have
25:45
Speaker 1: the yeas of just progress in the best way to
25:50
Speaker 1: purvey those insecurities you mentioned, those anxieties and all of
25:53
Speaker 1: those things, um, because I come from a very different
25:57
Speaker 1: background Rashida instead, we have worked so well together and
26:02
Speaker 1: she's just wonderful and took me under her way. That's
26:06
Speaker 1: been the most amazing. I would tell you this is
26:08
Speaker 1: a key. You know, Yes, there have been a lot
26:11
Speaker 1: of outward changes, okay, but it hasn't changed. Okay. So
26:15
Speaker 1: that's why your book was very relatable. So don't try
26:18
Speaker 1: to don't try to fit it in because you know, no, no, no,
26:22
Speaker 1: actually gotten more instidious that idea of um, you know,
26:27
Speaker 1: especially with the Twitter, the performative aspect of what we
26:32
Speaker 1: saw last year in company, being like, oh yeah, we're
26:36
Speaker 1: whatever now actually got me even maybe worse. That's maybe
26:41
Speaker 1: a little but I don't know, because it's a brilliant book.
26:44
Speaker 1: And before Lee, I wanted to teach you about you know,
26:46
Speaker 1: this old soul, this drifting inside your head, this introverted
26:51
Speaker 1: head here, you know, the twilight Zone references. I'm going like,
26:56
Speaker 1: really really trilight Zone she references old you seeking all
27:00
Speaker 1: this stuff. Talk about you in general. So you seem
27:04
Speaker 1: so relatable, you see, like a genuine person that I
27:07
Speaker 1: could really and continually talk to and laugh at it.
27:10
Speaker 1: I can take you the comedy club and might ask
27:12
Speaker 1: you for a day. I just say, I could take
27:13
Speaker 1: you to a comedy collect tak your jazz concert. I
27:15
Speaker 1: can take you to a Frankie Beverly and May's concert,
27:18
Speaker 1: that type of thing. Think at yes, look at it.
27:21
Speaker 1: And so I just feel that this book allows you
27:24
Speaker 1: to have those those levels and incredibility and writing it.
27:28
Speaker 1: So it is that was that tied to just your upbringing,
27:31
Speaker 1: your parents putting the music on. Talk about you mentioned
27:34
Speaker 1: your aunt Hazel, one of the characters is named after that.
27:37
Speaker 1: Talk about that and also telling writers. How like you said,
27:40
Speaker 1: read a lot, read a lot, read a lot, but
27:42
Speaker 1: also about sharing your honest story lifestyle in this book
27:46
Speaker 1: and be animated, authentic correct. Definitely. Well, the music thing
27:52
Speaker 1: absolutely comes from my parents. I grew up so many
27:57
Speaker 1: kinds of music in the household, mostly I mean, on
28:00
Speaker 1: my dad's side, I had Aretha Franklin, I had Jerry Butler,
28:05
Speaker 1: the Spinners, all of the fifties, sixties, seventies, UM R
28:10
Speaker 1: and B and soul Um. And my mom's side, I
28:13
Speaker 1: had um a lot of Jackson five and a lot
28:16
Speaker 1: of um different artists, I mean Rod Stewart too. Like
28:20
Speaker 1: I also come from a very diverse music background as well,
28:25
Speaker 1: so that was really fun to play on and reference
28:29
Speaker 1: people who would catch those africas. So I appreciate, yes, um,
28:36
Speaker 1: but yeah, I think making sure when you are writing
28:40
Speaker 1: your story, just don't worry too much about what's coming
28:45
Speaker 1: down the line. I mean, of course you're going to
28:47
Speaker 1: I know I did, and I was kind of sometimes
28:49
Speaker 1: I fell into those moods of like, oh, well, if
28:51
Speaker 1: I keep it in the publishing world and you know,
28:53
Speaker 1: what's what's what are we gonna say? Or oh if
28:56
Speaker 1: I if I get too much into the kitchen of
28:59
Speaker 1: this black woman care like but like, you know what,
29:01
Speaker 1: I need to just tell this story the way that
29:04
Speaker 1: is true for me, and I think if you do
29:06
Speaker 1: that it will You're learning and have a braid on
29:10
Speaker 1: the via YouTube that's authentic to me. I'm just gonna
29:13
Speaker 1: let you know I've just read the book, my friend,
29:15
Speaker 1: and there's a brilliant book. Thank you for allowing me
29:17
Speaker 1: to come into your world. The other black girl, Tequilla,
29:21
Speaker 1: the Leila Harris, thank you for coming on Money Making Conversation.
29:23
Speaker 1: You're fantastic. Oh by that gut you know this is
29:27
Speaker 1: so much fun. And tell your dad you know I
29:30
Speaker 1: got it going on. You know I got it going on. Okay,
29:33
Speaker 1: thank you for coming on Money Making Conversation. If you
29:35
Speaker 1: want to hear any of my interviews, I'll see in
29:37
Speaker 1: my interviews of money Making Conversations, please go to money
29:39
Speaker 1: Making Conversation dot com. I'm Rashan McDonald, I am yours.
29:44
Speaker 1: In this season of giving, Cools has gifts for all
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30:43
Speaker 1: Adoption of teams from foster care is a topic not
30:46
Speaker 1: enough people know about, and we're here to change that.
30:49
Speaker 1: I'm April Dinuity, host of the new podcast Navigating Adoption,
30:52
Speaker 1: presented by adopt us Kids. Each episode brings you compelling,
30:56
Speaker 1: real life adoption stories told by the families that lived them,
30:59
Speaker 1: with comment Harry from experts. Visit adopt us Kids dot org,
31:03
Speaker 1: slash podcast, or subscribe to Navigating Adoption presented by adopt
31:07
Speaker 1: us Kids, Brought to you by the U. S. Department
31:09
Speaker 1: of Health, that Human Service as Administration for Children and Families,
31:12
Speaker 1: and the Act Council