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Stressed, Overwhelmed and Unseen: Stepping Into a Month in Poverty | Danika Talks COPE · Neighbourly: Real Stories of Care and Community

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  This is an immersive experience that is life changing, that
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  is impactful, and that is going to plant seeds and build the kingdom of
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  God in our city and help us get out of our four walls of our
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  churches and love our neighbors.
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  Every one of us has a story about someone who showed up when it mattered
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  most. I'm Johan and this is Neighbourly, a
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  podcast about the ordinary ways people show extraordinary
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  care. Every other week, Shannon celebrates,
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  sits down with someone who's lived that out. Real stories of faith,
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  kindness and community in action. So grab your
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  coffee and let's join Shannon at the table.
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  Today on Neighbourly, I am sitting down with my colleague and
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  my friend Danika. She actually serves on
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  our CareImpact team as our community development facilitator.
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  And one of the big pieces that she oversees is the cost
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  of poverty experience, or COPE. And we've talked about
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  this a little bit before on our podcast, but last fall
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  we hosted a COPE with I actually don't remember how
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  many participants, but quite a few. And there were a lot of just
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  really thought provoking conversations that came out of it.
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  And so today we're going to talk about what happens in a
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  COPE simulation and also hear some of the stories from
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  last year's event. So, Danika, welcome.
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  Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me.
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  We'll take any opportunity to talk about cope. Awesome. Well,
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  for anyone who hasn't heard about COPE or know what it is, which
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  might be quite a few of our listeners, how would you describe it in
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  your own words? And so the cost of poverty experience is
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  essentially a simulation of what it's
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  like to live a month in someone's
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  shoes who's experiencing poverty. The really interesting thing about COPE
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  is like, this isn't like the only poverty simulation out there, but there's a
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  huge difference that sets it apart from every other one, is that
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  it was built with people with lived experience of poverty
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  and having their voices heard and letting them build
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  it from the ground up. And so it doesn't just, it's not like
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  a let's do this to solve the problem for you, but it really answers that
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  call of, like, nothing for us, without us. It's
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  not anything like a game. And definitely with how it's set up, it's very
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  realistic and it's an opportunity to come and have biases and
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  questions challenged in an environment where, like, people don't have to
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  jump off the deep end right into serving in a community or somewhere where
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  there's people who are living in a different economic bracket or experience that they are,
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  but it's like a safe space to be challenged and ask questions and experience
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  something awesome. And logistically, how does it work? If someone
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  is participating in a cope and they show up,
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  what can they expect? So what they can expect is
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  to learn a little bit about some basic statistics on
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  poverty. We're not just going to not talk about it at all,
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  but what they can expect to come into a room where
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  they're going to be given a folder and there's gonna be
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  a family and their names in there and a little bit of their story. And
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  they get to choose one person that like, this is the person I'm gonna be
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  for the next like hour. And so what they can expect is
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  to make the experience as real as they
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  wanna make it for themselves. Cause it's like you get to decide how much you
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  need to step into someone's shoes. And there's always the option, like if it gets
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  too much emotionally to like take a step back and like just take a breather.
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  But they can expect to learn and
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  engage with the topic of poverty in a way that isn't just sitting in a
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  chair and taking notes, but is very hands on and more of
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  an experience and less of a lecture. Yeah,
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  totally. It's like an immersive experience. Right.
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  Rather than just watching or. Yeah, like you said, a lecture.
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  Yeah. And so what kinds of decisions,
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  I guess do participants have to juggle in that
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  hour? Like how does that break down? What does that look like? Well,
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  just to backtrack a bit, like I can describe the room because it's like
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  when participants walk in, there's going to be like a bunch of chairs
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  in the middle of the room and then there's also going to be a bunch
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  of tables on the outside, on each table. It's gonna be like a different social
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  service system. We have like the doctor's office, we have
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  government services, we have a school, like different things like that.
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  And then they're going to sit in a chair somewhere and
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  quite possibly be challenged to sit with someone they don't know,
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  not guaranteed. And then in their folder they're gonna get their name
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  tag for whichever family member they choose. And
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  in that folder is going to be a task list. And so it's going to
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  lay out very clearly, oh, you need to go to government services every
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  week or any adult in your family needs to go and buy
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  groceries at CareImpact. And they're going to get an opportunity
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  to see what tasks they need to do and when and There will be like
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  a 15 minute timer up somewhere, like on a projector for them to see.
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  Because each week will be 15 minutes. And you have
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  15 minutes to do everything on your task list. And
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  during that 15 minutes, you're gonna have to figure out how are you doing
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  transportation and go wait in line to get your transportation pass stamped.
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  How are your kids gonna get to school? How are you gonna get to work?
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  Like, it's not just managing your own individual person. Like you will be in a
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  family unit. And so when they walk in, something they can
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  expect is just like actually their day to day tasks.
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  Anyone does, like going to work or, you know, having to pick up
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  your kid from school. Every once in a while, the facilitator might hand you a
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  card about something that's happened. And it could be good or it could be bad.
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  Like maybe your water heater broke or maybe your kid's acting up at school
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  and now they're suspended. Like normal life stuff. Honestly. It's
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  just that your bank account is going to more accurately represent
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  someone and kind of like how much money they'd be making
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  at the time. And that's just what you have to work with. Yeah.
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  Wow. And so as you facilitated a
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  cope last fall and we started this
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  hour of people going through their weeks, what are
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  some of the reactions or emotions you kind of saw
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  people experiencing as this started? Because I remember what it felt like. But
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  for those that weren't there, what did you see? I didn't expect
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  people to get as into their role as they did. I
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  definitely expected it to take a little bit more convincing. But I
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  think the thing that I mostly saw was people were really stressed. Yeah.
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  Like, they were like, the timer's going down, I'm waiting in line to get
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  this. Or like, they don't know where their kid is and they're like, oh, no,
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  I didn't realize I had to pick them up from school. Like, people were genuinely
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  like stressed and frustrated. Just, just like, what do I
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  do? Where do I do this? And there was a couple people that like, were
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  like, physically, you could tell they were getting quite upset and
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  flustered or overwhelmed. Like, something I really learned from it is like, whoa,
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  okay, this is like a. This is indeed a simulation and such an
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  immersive experience where sometimes as a facilitator, like, you almost need to tap someone on
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  the shoulder and be like, hey, are you okay? You see people trying to make
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  decisions. Or like, I was the one. Cause I was being trained to be a
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  facilitator. So I was with someone that was experienced. But I was the one handing
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  out the, like, chance cards and handing someone
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  a card where they have to spend like $200, suddenly it's
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  not easy. Or they're like, well, what do I do and what's gonna happen? You're
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  just gonna have to go to government services. And I don't know,
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  as a facilitator, it's just like, could definitely see the stress. And even like
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  resource leaders. So these are people who are representing workers in a
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  school or at government services. They were also looking really stressed.
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  They're like, there's a lot of people. How do we get through them in the
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  time? And I'm like, you might not. It's just, I think it
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  does a really good job of giving a snapshot
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  of what it can be like to live in poverty. Yeah.
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  And after the simulation ends, that's when
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  everyone gathers together. Gathered together for the debrief.
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  And so that's, I think, really where we're going to spend most of our time
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  today is talking about that. What are some of the moments
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  or just stories that stood out to you from participants during
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  that debrief time about what they were experiencing.
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  Yeah. So this was the part I was the most nervous about because it's like
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  doing a large group debrief can be really difficult as
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  a facilitator. And so I was like, okay. I was like breezing through it.
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  And what was surprising is like, the debrief led itself.
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  Typically when you're debriefing with, like, different questions, people will get off track.
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  Or like, sometimes you get someone that's really, really passionate about something and it's
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  like, this is amazing and I really want to talk about it more, but you
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  have to cut the people off because it's like, we don't have the time. I
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  remember my co facilitator asked the first question
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  and we didn't have to ask any of the follow up questions because people were
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  naturally answering them themselves. Wow. The
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  debrief was just so heartfelt. People became so
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  vulnerable and it basically led itself.
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  The biggest challenge being the facilitator was just managing,
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  like, everyone getting a chance to say something, but, like, also, like staying on
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  time. Do you remember that first question in the debrief? What prompted all that?
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  Not off the top of my head, but I think it was something like, what
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  was your experience like overall? And it just went
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  from there. Like, again, I don't know the questions off the top of my head
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  because we have to ask them. Like, you can tell People were impacted.
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  Like, even before people started talking, you could tell people were
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  impacted because when the simulation ended, the room was silent.
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  Wow. We didn't have to be like, okay, everybody, like, stop chatting.
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  It's time to answer the question. You know, like that, like, awkward thing. Nope, not
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  once. You could just feel the
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  emotional tension and, like. Like, you could tell there was something that
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  had to be said. Like, it was like a room where you're like, okay, this
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  is gonna be good. Do you remember what some of those
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  people shared about what? You know, did they
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  have beliefs that maybe that were challenged or preconceived
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  ideas about poverty or, you know, what. What was it that stuck with
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  people? Everyone that shared had something
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  challenged or changed. Like, the thing that stood out to me,
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  like, the one that always stands out to me is there was someone
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  who works with Neighbourly social services, actually, and they've been a
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  professional for, like, years. And the way they were
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  impacted is they never thought about what's it like for the child
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  that comes into the room with their parents because they'd taken on the role of,
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  like, a five year old. Mm. And how they
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  were impacted. So they're like, I wanna see that child and I want to
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  help them not feel stressed in that situation. And, like, I was
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  just starting my social work career and I was like, whoa,
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  that's huge. Like, one individual
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  just broke down crying because they're like, by the end of it, my family was,
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  like, evicted and we were sleeping in a bus station. And I just felt so
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  helpless. Like there was nothing I could do and yet I felt so
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  helpless. The emotions they were feeling helped
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  to answer bigger questions of would I want to go to church?
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  The resource leader who had been the pastor at the church was like,
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  I don't think anyone would even really think about it. And my co leader, that
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  was the second question asked, like, how many of you guys thought about going to
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  church? And they were like, I don't have time. I'm just trying to survive. Right?
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  It's not that I don't want community. It's not that I don't want to go
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  there. It's the idea is, like, there's only so much time in the week and
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  you can only do so much. And so I think the biggest
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  consensus from the debrief was that
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  depth of emotion and that idea of
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  sometimes you can't change your circumstances no matter how hard you try. I think
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  that was the biggest bias that ended up getting challenged. And
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  just the idea where people are saying, like, I wanna slow down and I want
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  to be more compassionate, or I am gonna be more compassionate when
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  talking to others, because sometimes there's
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  just nothing you can do. It's just the cards you were given. And.
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  Yeah, I think it's just a lot of people, just the emotions and the depth
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  of it, just, like, there's. It's almost hard to put into words because it's just.
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  It's like an experience that you need to be there for, to see it. But,
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  yeah, I think even just looking back on it, I'm still speechless based off of
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  just what people shared. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I remember
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  in my role, I was one of those resource leaders, and
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  I think I don't remember my title, but I was basically like the community connector.
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  Like, I just walked around inviting people to, like, a community
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  event in the park, and people
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  heard that, and they're like, well, that's nice, but I
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  don't have time for that. I'm just trying to, like, make sure my kid gets
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  fed type of thing, and realizing that that's.
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  In this case, it's that we're doing a simulation, but that's someone's
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  reality. Once you sit with that, you
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  can't go back to the way you thought before. No, no.
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  And that is exactly the role you were is the community connector. I remember that.
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  And it's like you were running around, like, it was chaotic.
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  For sure. It was super chaotic. Like, I think pretty much everyone
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  was, like, sweating by the end of it. Yeah. It's just a really immersive experience.
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  Yeah. Because you were there. Like, was there anything from the debrief that you remember
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  sounding out to you? Well, unfortunately, I wasn't in the
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  debrief. I had to go set up for lunch. I just remember
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  that it was going on for a long time, and I thought we were
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  going to be moving on to the next thing soon. And you guys were still
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  debriefing, which was really cool. I love that.
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  Do you remember what any of the other resource leaders shared in
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  that time? Like, what was their perspective as they
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  watched it unfold? The individual who
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  was our teacher at the school had shared how,
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  like, how hard it was to have so many kids who. Their behavioral
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  issues were probably linked more so to the fact that they were hungry or home
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  was just really stressful and, like, just this idea of how school
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  became, like, the safe space and the reprieve or how stressful it
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  was that some kids, their parents just never came to pick them up. What do
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  you do with that? Wow. Yeah.
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  Another
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  resource
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  leader was at CareImpact. I mentioned how hard it was to be
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  the business owner.
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  Yeah. Or like our probation
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  officer. Oh, my gosh,
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  did they get
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  into their
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  role? Did they get into
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  their role? Yeah, I do remember that. Like, they.
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  They made sure that everybody had to take a number. They made people wait.
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  Like, they really got into the role of, like, what a probation officer is
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  and how they would treat somebod. And it was just like in the debrief, the
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  probation officer shared their side. And then someone that was
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  under the probation officer came and shared after in the debrief. So just getting to
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  hear both their sides afterwards and then being like, oh, no. Yeah, I definitely felt
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  judged by you. Yeah. And I was like, whoa, this
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  is legit. And so I think in the end
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  lunch, people were still talking about it in debriefing after lunch, we had to
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  cut it off. Yeah. And it was really hard. Cause it was
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  so good. Our post survey response too was pretty
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  much everyone filled out the post survey, which is really hard to do. Yeah.
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  And so people were buzzing and talking about it. And
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  I even ran into someone the other day, probably a month ago. So basically
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  the other day, basically same thing. Basically same thing. And
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  they're like, oh, yeah, I was there. And there's now this connection
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  too. Like, I didn't think would come. It's like, oh, we went through this, like,
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  really unique experience together where we can actually talk about it. And we did some
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  more debriefing even then. Yeah. So I think like, the debrief never
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  really ends. It's just like at one point you're like, okay, we gotta stop here,
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  but keep talking. Yeah. Wow. When you think about
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  kind of the bigger picture of this, like, we know that this
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  one cope was so impactful and moving for the
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  those that were there last year. But why does this matter
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  beyond that, like, for communities and churches? Why.
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  Why do we need more communities to, you know, go
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  through an experience like this? I think the biggest thing is
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  I'm coming from like a. Like, I had Been fresh out of social work. Right.
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  Social work student. I'm talking about poverty all the time. I'm talk
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  getting my bioses and my stereotypes changed all the time, and I
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  still felt changed afterwards, and I felt like,
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  oh, man, I'm still carrying biases and stereotypes. Ew.
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  That's probably not a good thing to carry into my career. But
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  I think the biggest thing is this allows
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  individuals to step into the shoes
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  of somebody else and stepping into the shoes of
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  who they might run across in serving at church.
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  Yeah. I think it fosters a depth of
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  understanding that. Honestly. No. Like, not
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  to be bold, but, like, I'll be bold. Like, no Bible study or
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  soup kitchen experience would be able to do.
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  It's a moment to step into the shoes of who we would consider to be
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  the least of these. Yeah. And I think it's important for, like,
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  churches or schools or, like, even small
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  businesses right now. Right. Because the crime rate's been going up. Yeah.
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  To just be in a space where they're not
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  afraid to make a mistake and hurt someone irreparably
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  and where they can be in a safe
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  space that if it gets too much, they can come and be comforted and, like,
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  take a break and breathe. But I think another really important thing is,
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  like, the experience itself brings community for whoever goes
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  through it. You're bonding with other people through this. Like, you're. You
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  might run, like, Winnipeg's just a giant small town, for sure. You're gonna run
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  into people here and there randomly. But there's, like, a bond that happens and a
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  depth of community that even comes with those that you go through it with. Yeah.
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  Where it's like, oh, I remember going through this, and my friend
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  had this really surreal experience. I had this surreal experience. And
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  the empathy and compassion that comes afterwards is just beautiful.
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  It honestly feels like a gift. Wow. Because it's like the next time
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  you encounter somebody at your job or on the street or something like
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  that, you aren't running in with no information.
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  You know, like, when you read a news article and you have to see, like,
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  do I agree with this person? Are they being biased? Is this true? Like, is
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  this fake news? Is this propaganda? Like, all those, like, worries and stuff.
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  It goes beyond that to where it's like, I remember when
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  I had to choose between paying my car bill
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  so we could have a working vehicle to get around and save time or buying
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  groceries for the week. Yeah. And that's the reality for so many
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  Canadians. Yeah. This conversation reminds me of.
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  People will often say, you know, just pull Yourself
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  up by your bootstraps type of thing, you know, towards folks that
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  are experiencing poverty or navigating challenges like this.
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  And I think oftentimes there are no bootstraps
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  to pull up on. And
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  experiences like this help us grow in our empathy
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  and our understanding of why that is
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  and that, you know, statements like that don't
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  actually help us to see the other person. And I think
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  like you said, the, the practicality of, you know, many of our
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  listeners are likely connected to a church and
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  being able to just pause when someone walks in the doors of your
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  church rather than, than blame or think maybe they're not
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  doing enough to get themselves forward in life. Just pause and see
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  them and ask, hmm, I wonder what happened to
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  them. But I'm so glad they're here and
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  I want to love them and care for them the absolute best that I can.
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  Yeah. And that reminds me of, I think my favorite thing about the
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  like, the potential and the opportunity that comes from a COPE is
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  having those different stereotypes or like masks that were kind of like
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  honestly taught growing up. Like I know I was taught growing
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  up in school, like the things of this way. Yeah. And it gives an
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  opportunity for people who are very different from you to
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  not be a stranger that you're afraid of, but a
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  friendship where there's so much to give on their end too. I
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  think it like helps to like bring that equity in where it's like,
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  hey, yeah, you know what, I have like a six figure job.
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  You don't. And that might be someone that's gonna be the most genuine,
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  best friendship you will ever experience in your life and learn so
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  much from. Right. And that's my favorite thing about CareImpact is this
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  opportunity for people who might have not been friends or might have not built that
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  relationship and gotten to know one another simply because of a
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  bias or a stereotype that we have been taught growing up.
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  Cause this helps to break those back down and to bring in that upside down
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  kingdom that we all so want and that Neighbourly affection that we're like, yeah, we
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  wanna see this and we're gonna do this and this to help do
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  that in a safe setting and where you can debrief after and
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  share about it and then have access to a facilitator that can come out and
• 21:50
  say, hey, I want to help you do your action plan. Like, let's do it.
• 21:54
  Yeah. And like put what you've learned into action. Because sometimes
• 21:58
  you never know what's going to happen. You never know how much of a blessing
• 22:02
  someone who looks so different from you or is experiencing so many
• 22:05
  differences from you that could be someone that ends up changing your life
• 22:09
  for the better and shows you so much of God the same way that you
• 22:13
  have so much to give to them as well. Absolutely. Danika,
• 22:17
  for people who are listening and are thinking, like, I would love
• 22:20
  for, you know, my church staff to go through this or our congregation
• 22:24
  even, or our team, whatever their context is,
• 22:28
  what does it look like for them to bring hope into their community? How
• 22:32
  do they go about that? Well, you're gonna wanna go to our website,
• 22:35
  CareImpact CA and go to CareLabs if you wanna learn
• 22:39
  more about COPE and actually hear some of like real
• 22:42
  life debrief recordings. If you go to the poverty section
• 22:46
  on our CareLabs page, there's a place to listen and you can hear some of
• 22:49
  those debrief statements yourself. And then from there, you're gonna wanna book
• 22:53
  a discovery call through CareImpact. It'll be on the CareLabs
• 22:57
  area. And that gives you an opportunity to talk to
• 23:00
  Dorlin to help figure out what size of COPE do you need?
• 23:04
  How is this gonna work? And we can walk you through the whole process. And
• 23:07
  then in the leading up to COPE, if you do book it one, you get
• 23:10
  to hang out with me for three hours, which can be pretty fun.
• 23:14
  Oh yeah, come on. You know, I'll have our lives changed.
• 23:18
  I'll get to know each other, build community, have like just a great time being
• 23:22
  the body of Christ. But in that you'll also get help knowing how to
• 23:25
  set up the room, what you need to do to prepare. Like, I'll also help
• 23:28
  walk you through that. And on like day of is when we would come
• 23:32
  and facilitate. And it is a life changing experience.
• 23:35
  And it's been Canadianized. So the first COPE
• 23:39
  we ran was still very much steeped in the American
• 23:43
  system. And not that it's like insanely different, there's like some
• 23:47
  minor differences here or there, but changes have been made so that it
• 23:50
  is a Canadian context. So it's even more relevant now
• 23:54
  to our context. And thanks to the amazing groundwork
• 23:58
  that Think Tank did, like it was, the family stories are the same.
• 24:02
  Cause that's one thing that's not different between us here and across the border
• 24:05
  is that people are still experiencing poverty. People are still being
• 24:09
  seen in a way that they're being represented unfairly in the media.
• 24:13
  And so those stories are one thing that didn't have to be changed at all.
• 24:17
  And so I think by hosting a COPE get in contact
• 24:20
  with us, it's like I know I'm gonna be biased, but it
• 24:24
  is worth every penny because it's not just like a training where
• 24:28
  people get a certificate at the end and like a high five. Good job.
• 24:32
  This is an immersive experience that is life changing, that
• 24:36
  is impactful and that is going to plant seeds and build the kingdom of God
• 24:39
  in our city and help us get out of our four walls of our churches
• 24:43
  and love our neighbors and who wouldn't want that? That's right.
• 24:47
  Well, thank you so much Danica. This has been so fun just to
• 24:50
  connect and remember this experience and talk about it. If you're
• 24:54
  listening, like she said, just go to our website CareImpact CA.
• 24:58
  Go to the CareLabs page and under poverty you can
• 25:02
  learn more about the details. What does it look like to bring COPE
• 25:05
  into your community and where to start?
• 25:10
  The stories we share here remind us that CARE doesn't have to be perfect
• 25:14
  to be powerful, it just has to be present.
• 25:18
  Neighbourly is an initiative of CareImpact, a Canadian charity
• 25:21
  equipping churches, agencies and communities with tech and training
• 25:25
  to care better together. Visit CareImpact CA
• 25:29
  or to find out more about the podcast sponsorships, being a guest
• 25:33
  or just dropping us a line, visit NeighbourlyPodcast
• 25:36
  CA. We'd love to hear from you. Check the show notes for the link
• 25:40
  or hop on our CareImpact podcast group on Facebook to join our
• 25:44
  podcast community. I'm Johan. Thanks for listening
• 25:48
  and keep being the kind of neighbor someone will never forget
• 25:52
  in a good way. Turning over
• 25:56
  tables Tearing down walls
• 26:00
  Building up the bridges between
• 26:04
  the stones of these Turning over
• 26:08
  temples Breaking off chains
• 26:12
  When I see you in a stranger I'm no
• 26:15
  longer slave.
• 26:21
  Tearing down walls Building
• 26:25
  under bridges between us.
• 26:37
  Sam.