Latest / Once Upon a Hot Take / Episode 16- Delta County
Transcript
- Leah And Jordan: ⁓ Jordan: welcome to One Upon a Hot Take. I'm co-host Jordan. Leah And Jordan: And I'm your other co-host, Leah. Jordan: Fairy tales are just the beginning. Leah And Jordan: This is the podcast where we cover your favorite books with our hot takes. Jordan: So if you have a book rec or hot take that differs from ours, we would love to hear from you. Send us an email at onceponahottakeatgmail.com and follow us on TikTok and Instagram at onceponahottake. Leah And Jordan: please consider subscribing to and or rating or reviewing the podcast or sharing it with a fellow book lover. All right, we are kicking it off with cold takes. Jordan, you got anything. Jordan: I do not. Leah And Jordan: Okay. I have a couple of things here. Not really a cold take, but just, you know, things to say. So first off, Spotify notified me today that we have had 500 downloads. So, woo, go us. Ooh, ooh, ooh. Yes. So thank you for anyone who has listened, streamed, download on Spotify. We appreciate you, love. Yeah. Jordan: Okay. Whoa! Whoop whoop! That's awesome! Yes, that's so great because this is like what episode 14 maybe? 16 oh my gosh. Leah And Jordan: I think 16 lucky. I think so. Sweet 16. Oh, we should have, we should have done something special next time. Um, yeah. And also I just wanted to give a little sorry for being a little MIA. mean, life got busy, man. We tried our best, but like things fell through and we, know, as much as we would love for this to be our full-time job, it just isn't. Jordan: Oh, I didn't even think of it. Oh, okay, cool. Yeah. Leah And Jordan: So, yeah, everybody should go out there and start sharing it more so that it could be our full-time job because I do this full-time. Jordan: Yeah, we'd be reading a lot books if this was full time. ⁓ Leah And Jordan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we would. you know, it's, you know, maybe it is a blessing that it's not our full-time job because it could, we could get sick of it and we could get sick of each other, you know, Jordan: Do think you'll get sick of reading? I might get burnt out from reading. Leah And Jordan: I might, yeah, if I had to do it as a job, you know, like I, there was a moment where I was like, should I pivot my career? Should I become, get involved in like the editing and the publishing world? I feel like I have skills that would work well for that, but then I worried that it would drive the love of reading away from me because right now, if I don't like a book, I can abandon it. If it's my job to read and edit this book, I cannot abandon it, ⁓ Jordan: Yeah. Ooh. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm No! Leah And Jordan: I I feel like this is good. We got like a little taste of what we want. ⁓ Jordan: Yep. ideally we'd start making a little bit of money. Yeah. ⁓ Just enough to cover our fun expenses, you know? ⁓ Leah And Jordan: I mean, that'd take a little bit, yeah. ⁓ Right, yeah, that we keep adding on to. Like my new mic stand, I love it, it's great, but I bought it, I paid money for that. ⁓ I do have a general take question if you don't have one. Jordan: Yeah Yeah Yeah, go for it. Leah And Jordan: Okay, this is actually gonna fit really well too into your life currently. So here's my hot take. E-readers are actually better than a physical book. like then reading on a physical book because I will say there is something to like having that nice hardcover book in your hand and being able to flip through the pages and flip back. And I do like that. And especially when there's a map in the beginning, but like you just can't beat that Kindle portability. I can bring that bad bunny anywhere. I make it a point to always read in the doctor's office. When I go there in the waiting room, rather than scroll on my phone, Jordan: Yeah, yeah. Yep. Nope. Yep. Leah And Jordan: because I'm subtly sending a message to everybody there that I'm actually better than them because I'm reading and not doom scrolling. But in order to do that, I gotta bring the Kindle, right? I can't be hauling a court of thorns and roses in my purse. It doesn't fit. that's my hot take. Jordan: Hahaha! Yes. Okay, at first I thought you were gonna ask a question, but you really came up with a statement there. And I'm here for it because so I bought a new e-reader. Like, when was that? Back in February, maybe? I'm reading so much more efficiently. I... Leah And Jordan: I came up with a statement. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. It was like a month ago? Yeah. A month ago. Mm-hmm. Jordan: I love it. I was able to juggle three books at one time and it was all dependent on, you know, what time of the day was it because each book was, you know, really fit my life for a certain time period of the day. If I'm trying to fall asleep at night, I don't want to read Project Hail Mary and you like get hooked in where you're like, ⁓ no, I got to know what happens next. So not a good pre-bedtime book. Leah And Jordan: Mm-hmm. ⁓ No, that's not a sleepy book. Yep. Yup. Jordan: ⁓ e-reader. It's just French kiss. It's the best. I love it. I love it so much. I know you can't. it makes me feel like a betrayer because I'm always like, ⁓ but like the physical book, it's ⁓ what reading is. It just it doesn't fit my lifestyle. It it just doesn't. Leah And Jordan: French kiss everywhere, yep. You can't beat it. Mm-hmm. Yep. I know. And I'm telling you, once that baby gets here, my gosh, that e-reader is gonna save your life. You're gonna be feeding a baby in one hand, having the e-reader on your lap in the other hand, and shoving a sandwich in your face with the other hand. I guess you have three hands in this scenario. I meant you put it on your leg. ⁓ Yep, yep, exactly. ⁓ it's gonna be great. Jordan: You Yeah. Yeah. Or the baby's strapped into my carrier. Yeah, I actually, I've been having like a good amount of insomnia because yeah, oh yeah, I don't, I think it ever has really gone away. It like has been like ebbs and flows, but I've been totally awake at 3 a.m. from like three to like 4 30. So. Leah And Jordan: Again? Oh man! ⁓ no. Yeah. ⁓ you know what? That's just good baby prep to be honest. So. Jordan: Yeah! But it's the e-reader is clutch because not only my new one I can like flip it to dark mode so then the screen is black. Yes. Yes. And it's like very easy on the eyes and it's so I can lay down and I can read it. ⁓ E-reader for the win. Yes. Yes! Leah And Jordan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yup. So you still get that backlight. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ Yep, and you don't have like a light light, you know, and Paul being like, are you done reading yet? You know, like you can just read and no one will know. Jordan: exactly. ⁓ doesn't know at all. At one point, even with my old Kindle, because remember I told you it didn't have the backlight, so I would clip my book light onto it and I was like, this is too bright and I've like made a sticky note wrapper around it to like dim the light and I was like, this is it. This is it. I have to get something else. Yup. Leah And Jordan: Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. Right onto it. Yep. Come to the 21st century with us, please Yep, gotta yep. Yes. I'm so happy for you. I love it Jordan: Yup, that was the moment. was like, okay, this is actually a problem. I need a solution and the solution is fantastic. Yep. Great. Great question, Leah. Leah And Jordan: thought so too. I literally was struggling for a while. I was like, I don't have a hot take debate question here. What do we, and then it came to me and I was like, perfect. Cause I knew you just gotten the new one anyway. So worked out. ⁓ Jordan: Good one. Yup. Leah And Jordan: Alright, tell them what we're talking about today, Jordan. Jordan: are talking about Delta County by... I didn't write her name down. Leah And Jordan: J-H-J-L hide. Yes. Yes. Yes. A million miles away. Yep. Yep. Yes, we are. Delta County. So spoilers ahead, mateys. We are discussing all things Delta County. Jordan: L hide? Okay, okay, J L hide. Gosh, my phone's not next to me. So I was like, shoot. Yeah, okay. Yes, Delta County. Leah And Jordan: just a, just a disclaimer up top. can probably expect a lot of F-bombs today, mostly out of Jordan, cause she's got things to say ⁓ one of these characters. So ye be warned. ⁓ lots of characters. Yes. All right. Well, let's get started with the nonverbal reaction. Would you care to go first, Jordan? Jordan: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Not just one character, lots of characters. Sure. you Leah And Jordan: Okay, okay, mine is... Like a couple slow clappies. So that's where we are. Jordan: Okay, so reading the vibes here not either of our favorite picks Leah And Jordan: it was fine. It was fine. It was fine. ⁓ why then did we pick this? Well, Jordan's sister, Paige, said it was a must read. And this just goes to show you can trust nothing that come from little sister's mouth. Just kidding, Paige. ⁓ Jordan: Yeah. Mm-hmm. ⁓ must okay, I'm gonna just correct us right now on that because I did tell her that we were reading it she goes, I don't think I've read that one yet. My friend gave me that book to read and said it was so good. And I was like, ⁓ so things got lost in translation along the way here. ⁓ Leah And Jordan: ⁓ yeah. Or she pulled the Leah and thought she read it, didn't realize she read it and didn't check Goodreads and then was like, wait, I've read this before. Jordan: she either has no memory of it, which very well could be ⁓ or, she didn't actually read it, but she did have the physical copy of the book. Leah, you read that. I did not. ⁓ I still, ⁓ went and the digital version because I was like, ⁓ I just need ⁓ It was way long. ⁓ Leah And Jordan: Mm. That is Mm-hmm. Huh? And then we... Yep. and you read the digital version? ⁓ my gosh. Yeah. Well, you know what? She's an indie author too. So that's, that's perfect. Supporting the locals. Cause Jordan is from the UP. So we thought this would also be, you know, just a little nostalgia tie in. Turns out we were wrong a little bit. Jordan: Yes. ⁓ yes, this is... This is all about ⁓ my adjacent hometown. I... It brought back a lot of memories and feelings, most of which unfortunately were not great for me. So yeah, we'll cross that bridge in a little bit. Leah And Jordan: Mm-hmm. Ugh. ⁓ I can't wait for you to spell. ⁓ Delightful. Well, shall you summarize it for us? Jordan: I will do my best. You might need to just, the end, wasn't sure. You'll see where I end. We can figure out what we wanna add from there. Okay. So Heather is a born and raised UP girl stuck living in Chicago where her husband is located for his residency. She's playing the role of a doctor's wife and has no career of her own. Leah And Jordan: I'm Okay. Okay. All right. Jordan: Ten years ago, she tragically lost her parents in a car accident at the end of her senior year. Turns out her best friend's mom drove drunk and ran her parents off the road where her dad died on scene and her mom died in the hospital a couple of hours later. Heather and her husband travel back to their hometown of Escanaba for their 10-year high school reunion. While there, she rekindles her friendship with Kelly for it to only last a day when Kelly dies the night of the reunion, but not before Kelly reveals that there was more to the car accident than what was in the public record. Heather and her husband decide to move back to Escanaba and bought an old fixer-upper. Heather secretly wants to investigate both her parents' car accident and Kelly's death. In the meantime, Leah And Jordan: Mm-hmm. Jordan: Heather starts home renovations and ends up making a career from her social media documenting her progress. Then she decides she's ready to have kids, but unfortunately she struggles through two miscarriages. Throughout this time, Mitzi, the mother-in-law, is just a total bitch. Leah And Jordan: ⁓ Jordan: Mitzi always makes it known that she wished her son had married someone else, a particular girl named Julie. And that's where I end. Leah And Jordan: And that's where I end. Good. And then things get nasty because we find out that Ryan has been sleeping around with Julie and it is a little unclear. And this was one of my gripes with how long that like affair has been going on or if it was just a one and done type thing, because our girl ⁓ Heather pretty insecure about her marriage throughout most it. Jordan: Mm-hmm. Leah And Jordan: But I'm like, you've been married for how long? Why are you so insecure like this? But then it turns out she was right to be insecure all along because then plot twist, Julie has a child and is married to someone else, but it is revealed that this child is hers and Ryan's and Mitzi, the mother-in-law knows this and Heather, when she finds out becomes enraged and then attacks Mitzi. And does she kill her? ⁓ Jordan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ⁓ well it with Frank, ⁓ father-in-law, dad, Mitzi, gets together with Kelly's mom. They tell her the truth, yes, they have been in love and the night of the parents car accident, they were in the Leah And Jordan: Yep. Yep. ⁓ leaves Mitzi, right? Yeah. That's right, that's right. Cause they've loved each other for a long time. ⁓ Yep. Jordan: with the two of them with Mitzi. confronts them the parking lot at this event they're at about their affair and their love child who's Kelly. ⁓ Frank punches Mitzi out cold. They put her in car and as they're driving Leah And Jordan: Yep. That's right. We'll deal with this later! Jordan: As they're driving away, wakes up and she, Mitzi grabs the wheel and causes the car accident that caused Heather's parents to die. Leah And Jordan: ⁓ yeah, grabs the wheel, right? Yup. Yes. Yes. Which yeah, that's still did not sit well with me that they let Heather's mom take the fall. And then she just did. And she was just okay with that rather than revealing the affair. That was a stretch for me. Jordan: I have so many things to say about that. Leah And Jordan: so then, all is revealed. then Heather, the last straw is when Julie like gives her the side eye like, ⁓ yeah, aren't these blue of my child very similar to Ryan's blue eyes or something like that. And then she puts the pieces together and then Mitzi goes ha ha ha or something. And then Heather lunges across the kitchen table at her. And then turns out Heather goes to prison where we find out she is pregnant. And that's where it ends. So that's our summary. overall thoughts. liked it. I, there were problems with it. Don't get me wrong, but I liked it. I liked like the nostalgia of it. Jordan: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Leah And Jordan: the characters, the small town vibes. I wasn't sure at first how I felt about the alternating point of view chapters, but as they went on, I did like them. And I didn't even realize like the context of them. there was one spot where she said something like, if I had gotten therapy earlier, I wouldn't have been in this situation. And I clocked it. I noticed it. That was ⁓ odd, I just was like, ⁓ okay, And just kept reading. I didn't connect the dots until they literally revealed that she was in jail and these were her therapy. Jordan: Mm-hmm. Leah And Jordan: reflections and I was like, ⁓ and I did like that because it wasn't a gotcha in a mean way where there weren't any clues whatsoever. No, I think I think there were a few subtle clues in there because I did see that one where she had said if I would have gotten therapy earlier and I noticed it and then I didn't put it together. So I like that there were a teensy bit of bread crumbs there. This wasn't a. Jordan: You don't think? Leah And Jordan: like a Frieda McFadden where she's just like, ⁓ and it was the maid all along, ha ha ha, without any clues. Jordan: I felt that way. think that's one tiny breadcrumb, Leah. I disagree. think this was a gotcha big time. I well, I was also so wrapped up in dealing with my own personal drama that this story felt ⁓ like it was dredging up from the depths that Leah And Jordan: Mmm. Yeah, but it's at least one. It's at least one. ⁓ Yeah. You Jordan: Even if there were breadcrumbs, I was not picking them up. So all of a sudden we got to the last 10 pages and I was like, what is happening? Are you kidding me? I was so blindsided, so blindsided. Leah And Jordan: You weren't even, yeah, you were just one track mind. Yeah. Yeah. up until that point, it seemed like a light beach read, you know, just like, a little, little murder or little, little, not murder, but a little, you know, death history, maybe judging up some little town secrets. And then bam, it took, it got, it got a dark turn, ⁓ but very abrupt. Yeah. Jordan: I but it was so, yeah, it was abrupt. was quick. I felt like there was no lead up to it. I was just, I was very, very shocked. reminded me ⁓ the silent patient but with less breadcrumbs where it wasn't like. Leah And Jordan: Yeah, yeah, yeah Mm-hmm. Jordan: It wasn't on the front of my mind. with the silent patient, the whole way through I'm trying to like, ⁓ this is a puzzle. I'm trying to solve this. Where's this gonna go? This one, it felt like, here's this mystery upfront. Now I'm going to trauma dump, trauma dump, trauma dump. And then ⁓ mystery solved at the end. ⁓ was? Leah And Jordan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jordan: the investigative part of this story. Leah And Jordan: See, yeah, and I wonder if, because we knew Silent Patient was a thriller going into it. we knew that. I did not know that this, ⁓ would constitute this as a thriller now based on how it ends and how it unfolded. But I didn't think it was going to be that when I opened it up. I thought it was just gonna be a fiction story with some drama. So I think maybe that might've colored our read a little bit. Had we known, ooh, this is a thriller and there's gonna be something in here, maybe we would've been a bit more. I don't know. We'll never know. Jordan: Yeah, no, we won't because now we know the ending. some of overall thoughts. ⁓ Overall, ⁓ missed mark for me personally, just was not a great fun, enjoyable read for me for a lot of reasons. Leah And Jordan: Hehehe Yeah. Jordan: At one point I realized I was being like the main guy from lovers, Charlie, how he hated that Asheville in the book that her client had written because it his hometown and he was like, it's not this cute and quaint and she's never been there. Which granted I know that Leah And Jordan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not like that. Yeah. Jordan: JL Hyde is from there. she nailed all the references and all of that true. ⁓ So it's not she misrepresented it, but I do feel like the charm aspect was a little overstated ⁓ as someone who doesn't there anymore. Like growing up, I knew I, I just like did die. It never worked for me. Leah And Jordan: Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jordan: so like seeing all this oh, it's so cute and quaint and charming. And I'm like, I've never felt that vibe ever, Leah And Jordan: Is it? Yeah. I loved the, the Deb references where you'd have to drive down and get your dress from Deb in Green Bay and then drive back up. Cause you said you guys did that. ⁓ I was like, ⁓ Also I missed That was a great store. ⁓ my gosh. Got so many dresses there. ⁓ Yeah. ⁓ Jordan: Yes, yes! That's funny. You remember that part. Yeah. That's what you had to do. Everyone did it. You had to come, you had to drive down to Green Bay for your school shopping every year. The time jumping was a little bit, there's like a lot of it going on. Leah And Jordan: Yeah. Yeah, that was a bit jarring. Jordan: Yeah, sometimes there was just a lot of it going on ⁓ all at once. Leah And Jordan: And it was hard to keep it all straight too. I was like, okay, wait, this happened with who and then it was a little, and then weren't there too many friends? I was getting the friends confused. Like after Kelly, and didn't they have like a fun acronym for their name? Am I thinking of this the right way? Yes, yes. There were like too many of them. they all just melded to one personality to me. Jordan: Yes. Sharks. Yep. Yeah, they did outside of Kelly the rest of them. I was just like look you're all together Leah And Jordan: Yep. Like here you go. Mean girls. Jordan: yes! my just quick, quick nitpick ⁓ is the COVID part. I dislike when any of my literature ⁓ or any kind of entertainment COVID. ⁓ just, it sits so heavy. such a Leah And Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. Jordan: not enjoyable topic that drives me crazy. Yes. Yeah. Don't, yeah. I don't want it in, I just don't want it in my reading. I don't. So that also bothered me. So overall, like, Leah And Jordan: Right. Because it drudges all that back up like, no, no, let's just, no. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jordan: If we knew it was a thriller, maybe that would have colored my read differently, but there was just a lot going on. the most of my time through it, I was like, where's the investigation? Where's the investigation? I'm missing. She literally said, I wanted to move up there to investigate her parents' case and Kelly's death. And there were like six paragraphs on it until the end. Leah And Jordan: Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Right, yeah, and it was like, meh. ⁓ she got so caught up in her house. She was social media-ing her house. She got busy. I do love that too. That was like too perfect. Like, and now I'm an influencer and I'm making my own income and I don't have to just be a housewife anymore. ⁓ was a little too perfect. Jordan: And I was like, what? I thought that was the point of this story. So it just didn't Hahaha! Yes, very cliche heavy. what's difference a cliche and a stereotype? Are those similar enough? Leah And Jordan: ⁓ no, a stereotype is an assumption you make about like a group of people. A cliche is something that just is like a trope that's overused. Jordan: Okay. So I think there were some UP stereotypes then in this book. And yes, okay, thank you. I feel better about knowing that. I'll probably have to ask that again at some point. ⁓ Leah And Jordan: Yes. But then also some cliche characters too. Yeah. Terminology down. Jordan: do you want to dive into character analysis? Leah And Jordan: Well, first we have to describe the read. said you read on Kindle. I read your original paige's Friends paperback. ⁓ I actually, I read it in four days. I zipped through it. I did stay up a few nights late reading it. It soft cover. was genuinely curious it day. So I was interested in picking it up to see where the story was going. Jordan: Yeah Well, good for you. And it is a short read. I like I didn't even sit down to read for that long. And before I knew it, I was an extra 15 to 20 % through the book. And I was like, ⁓ I'm actually really making progress on this. ⁓ it me a little bit longer just because I was like, ⁓ what are you going to bring up next that I'm going to get cranky about? ⁓ Yeah. Leah And Jordan: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Look, go me. Right. Like, where's the trauma? ⁓ speaking of trauma, let's get into some of these characters. So I've Ryan up number first and I've got one word for him. Dirt ball. ⁓ I wanted, I wanted more information on when the julie affair started. was this just a momentary slip or was this like an ongoing affair? Jordan: So, okay, good for you, leah Huh. Yeah. Leah And Jordan: Did he know the kid was his? I just need some more detail here, some more closure, you know, ⁓ they would have given us a scene where she, even she is in prison and Ryan comes to visit her and she's confronting him. And we get a little dialogue back and forth there of you know, how long had this been going on? ⁓ I don't know. even that we could trust anything the sleaze ball would say, but I just wanted a little a more closure there. get like, there's that dramatic ending of I'm pregnant and in prison. Jordan: Absolutely. Yeah. Leah And Jordan: But I, so storytelling wise, that's good, but as a consumer, no, I wanna know. Jordan: Yeah, I totally agree. Especially because she's had suspicions for so long. And that was known throughout the book Yeah, I'm absolutely with you on that I wish we knew more about the affair. It seems to me ⁓ if she's had for that long, ⁓ think it just probably was happening the whole time. ⁓ Leah And Jordan: Right? Mm-hmm. Right, right. And that was one thing I did not like about her initially. And I wrote that down at first. I was like, why is she so insecure? you are an adult. You have been married. This is not a high school relationship. No one's cheating on you. And then I was wrong. So. ⁓ Jordan: Yeah, turns out it was high school relationship. Turns out, ⁓ Leah And Jordan: Yep. Yep. You can't escape your hometown, I guess. Jordan: You cannot. You absolutely cannot. And gosh, Ryan, you fucking sleazeball. Leah And Jordan: Dude, yeah, ⁓ had it all going for you. You had a doctor, ⁓ had a wife, you bought a nice house back in your hometown where your mom could do your laundry for you. ⁓ Jordan: Quit. Leah And Jordan: Because she would. he gave me the ick. ⁓ true. She wouldn't dirty her hands. Yeah, you're right. You're right. ⁓ like not Heather's clothes. She'd only do it for Ryan. ⁓ Jordan: Oh, God. Oh, no, she would pay someone. She would pay to have a laundry service for them. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ absolutely, ⁓ my god. But, yes, that's where I wanted to go with this though, is that Ryan ⁓ ⁓ stood up for Heather ⁓ his mother. Leah And Jordan: No, no, no. Yeah, that's kind of inexcusable. If you're not seeing it, that's bad. If you're seeing it and not doing anything about it, that's doubly bad. That's worse where you don't even you see it and you're willfully ignoring it. ⁓ when get married, you say, you are now my number one person. everybody else is still important, but you are my number one important person. Jordan: Yeah. Yep. Mm-hmm. Yes, and when these things happen right in front of your face and you do nothing, all that does is give her the power to keep treating your wife ⁓ like a rug. She can walk all over her, do whatever the fuck she wants. Ryan sucks. Ryan, he is the worst. He absolutely is. All right, who's? Leah And Jordan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Ryan's the worst. He's probably the one we're both killing, I bet. Yeah, well, maybe. I don't know. I actually don't remember. That's really far down on the document. I haven't gotten there yet. Okay. I did like Heather as a FMC. I found her likable, palatable, tolerable. I found her realistic. Jordan: Spoilers! All right, who you got next? Leah And Jordan: I didn't find her off putting or annoying like a lot of Colleen Hoover's FMCs. And this book read similarly to me to like a Colleen Hoover, but less dark. Like a lot of the co-hosts that I've read have been dark. And this one, was not that dark. And I actually, I liked Heather. I found her to be a realistic person. She had her flaws. Yes. But overall I could tolerate her. Jordan: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, I think Heather is a stereotypical down to earth UP girl. That's how she was written. Her the way she speaks ⁓ about and to people like teleports back to the UP, Leah And Jordan: Mm-hmm. she captured that. ⁓ Jordan: because she did. She captured it to a T ⁓ she does talk like a good old youper So people who do love it up there, ⁓ they would love this girl. They they absolutely would. Leah And Jordan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jordan: see her charm and her charisma, yes, and they're gonna eat this up. very specifically, I in the book when she was writing about how much she hated Kelly's mom for driving drunk that night, and the way she wrote it about how her parents would never do that, it just was like, Leah And Jordan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jordan: There's something about it where I'm like, is so it's such a ⁓ up of talking that ⁓ I like couldn't ⁓ shake I was like, ⁓ my God, Leah And Jordan: Mmm. So she's pretty spot on then about ⁓ how writing it. ⁓ Jordan: ⁓ yeah, she's super spot on. So I mean, if you loved these character, if you loved Heather, great, go to the UP. You're gonna love P. I mean, they are super great people. Leah And Jordan: Move up north, yeah? Jordan: I also don't understand how she went so long with no purpose in her life, where she was just like, in her 20s, your husband is in residency. What are you doing all day? Are you in depression? Leah And Jordan: Yes. Do something, take some pottery classes. Jordan: Yeah, I was like, you have to be depressed if you're just literally doing ⁓ nothing with your life right now. Leah And Jordan: Just bumming around Chicago. Yeah. And I, know, as someone who probably loves her small town, UP life, to be in a big city then that was probably very overwhelming and these are not my people. What do I do? So yeah. But also she was pretty motivated and driven in high school. how did you let yourself just. Jordan: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that was... Yeah. Right, see and that's where parents died, ⁓ not treated and you just never got help. I don't know, that's kind of where it seemed like it went. Okay, ⁓ let's about Frank. Leah And Jordan: Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep. Yeah, that makes sense. All right. Frank! Ugh! Okay, why? Why are you just going along to being married to Mitzi? when it, was he, then my question too is, was he carrying on this affair all these years with Lisa, like after the accident? Like, didn't she move out of town? And then how could you stay with someone? Jordan: Yeah. Leah And Jordan: who literally caused two other people to die and then blackmailed you into keeping it a secret. how can you show up day to day? ⁓ I vividly remember a of scenes too where he was very loving to her. he was rubbing her back and he, you know, being affectionate, how can you do that to someone that you just have to hate, right? Frank, what are you doing? I don't see it. I don't see it. Nah, bruh. Jordan: Yeah, but did all of this because Mitzi blackmailed him because he would lose his practice ⁓ a lawyer. So ⁓ you're unbelievably selfish. You're actually pretty poor decision maker here. And you have ⁓ no, no, have no moral compass ⁓ whatsoever. You literally like, myself first. Leah And Jordan: . Yeah. Yeah, you should not be practicing the law Mm-mm. Jordan: forever and always. ⁓ Leah And Jordan: Yep. even though I love this other person, yeah, it was, yeah, he was not a good dude. Jordan: I can't go to jail or lose my law practice. So I'm gonna stay married to this monster who killed two people. My daughter-in-law's parents and I'm gonna let my daughter-in-law suffer for the decisions and choices I made. Leah And Jordan: Yeah. Yes. And just to live there too. Yeah. And then all of a sudden then when he's, you know, 60 to be like, well, that's enough of that. I'm leaving. Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And like, ⁓ great. Lisa's dying. So ⁓ now we're just going to come out the truth and I've lived my life and had my career. So now it doesn't matter if I lose my law practice or not. ⁓ Fuck you, Frank. Fuck you. When she, Heather, when Heather said, Leah And Jordan: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You're a bad dude and a bad dad. Jordan: Thanks for all you've done for me over these years. After I told her all of this, I was like, girl, are you fucking kidding me? You should have. Leah And Jordan: Yeah. Right. He's one of the reasons your parents are dead. Jordan: Yeah! Did you not just listen to what they told you? that was so maddening. Leah And Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. He's a good, he's a good pseudo villain is not the word I'm looking for, but he's not a nice guy. He acts like he's a nice guy, but he is not a nice guy. Jordan: No. Yeah. What is that called? He's snake in the grass. He's just like, ⁓ you don't actually know that I'm here and I'm a total piece of shit. ⁓ Leah And Jordan: No, what like, yeah, yeah, like it's Demonic. Yeah, he's a bad dude. All right, well, before we get to Mitzi, I want to talk about the sharks. did, I did like how it channeled, you know, back being in high school with your ride or die friends, I am not close to anyone from high school anymore. And does make me a little sad because you don't have anyone that you can ⁓ relive good old days about, which is funny because that's literally all of Paul's friends. All of Paul's friends are his high school friends. So it's so interesting that we're complete opposite. Yeah. I have a couple of like casual acquaintances from high school that I chat with every now and then, but don't hang out with anyone from high school anymore. Jordan: Mm-hmm. Wow. Yeah, ⁓ 100 % the same. ⁓ we're gonna get into this real quick since you ⁓ this. This is UP Culture at its best and worst. Leah And Jordan: ⁓ boy, lay it on me. Jordan: It's the best for those who are in. But in the UP, it is so clicky. It is very clicky. And you are... If you are in, that means you are in a drinking crowd. Leah And Jordan: Mm-hmm. yeah. ⁓ Jordan: You have to drink in high school to be in the group. Leah And Jordan: ⁓ no. Jordan: Which is why, like me reading this like, oh, the sharks are getting on a party bus. They're gonna go out to the place where they partied at this camp all through high school. Yes, because they were the it crowd. Leah And Jordan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That was the cool kids and that's what the cool kids did. Yeah. Jordan: And that's what the cool kids did. And if you didn't do it, you weren't in. So me as a studious athlete who no desire to drink in high school whatsoever was never in the it crowd. Always just on the outskirts, cause like it did overlap with a lot of, you know, athletes. But if you're not committed to ⁓ the scene, ⁓ you're in the it crowd. So I'm like, yeah. Leah And Jordan: Mm. Mm-hmm. Right. Yep. Yep. Mm-hmm. You're not gonna be cool, yeah? Jordan: I go to my high school reunion, which was fine. I like got to see people, but then this literally happened at my high school reunion where they were like, we're all going to so and so's house to drink after this because like the good old days. And I was like, guess what? Never been there. I'm out of here. Bye. Leah And Jordan: Mm-hmm. Hahaha! That's what we used to do. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ Jordan: And I was like, literally what happened in this story for the reunion is what happened at my 10 year reunion. And I was like, Nobody died. Leah And Jordan: Well, verbatim, was she there with you at your re- just kidding. ⁓ So how many kids- how many kids were in your graduating class? Jordan: 150. Leah And Jordan: 150, wow, okay, I had 63. So there was a little bit of, yeah, like you said, the drinking culture, but exactly like you, super nerdy, goody two shoes, also athlete, whose uncle was the athletic director, like no, I didn't go anywhere near those parties. Like, I would have been roasted alive and then roasted again. But also I had no desire. Like that was not on my radar, not something I was interested in. But. Jordan: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Leah And Jordan: ⁓ yeah, I definitely was not a cool kid, which whatever it was fine. But like you said, dude, there was some overlap. yeah, I was friends with the cool crowd and I played, you know, softball, basketball, volleyball with some of the, ⁓ it crowd. But I was not at, I was not at the parties. Jordan: now. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so me reading about a girl who is in that it crowd just drove me crazy. then, is bigger. So the town that they mentioned in the book was Gladstone or happy rock, which is like Escanaba's. Yes. ⁓ Yes. ⁓ Yes. ⁓ Leah And Jordan: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yep. ⁓ I get it. Gladstone happy rock. Okay. Jordan: So Escanaba is bigger though. like you're talking, I would guess like, especially in 2006, like at least 250 kids in a graduating class. And so they talked about like, you know, the 30 of them or 30 to 40 who like jammed on this party bus to go out to, you know, think about how small that actually is of their total graduating class. And you, you just like get us, you get the feel of like, okay. Leah And Jordan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Jordan: That was the It Crowd. Leah And Jordan: Mm-hmm. Yep. The cool heads. Mm-hmm. Jordan: You got your homecoming queen and king. Leah And Jordan: ⁓ high school, which is so, so funny too, because you're so ⁓ into world for four years and that is your life and things that people say mean so much. And you're so worked up about things that in the grand scheme don't matter. like, if you could look back on that and just tell yourself like, just chill, it's not a big deal, but like it is such a big deal when you're in that moment. Jordan: Mm-hmm. Leah And Jordan: Mm. Jordan: ⁓ yeah, totally. more on the alcohol point. ⁓ One more which is still, it's still true to Green Bay, right? ⁓ And Wisconsin in alcohol is a huge part of our culture. What it like, Wisconsin has the top 10 drunkest counties ⁓ in America or something Whatever. It's, it's unreal. The amount of alcohol. Leah And Jordan: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. Bars per capita. Yep. ⁓ Jordan: that gets consumed in our state. The UP, the only reason they're not on that table is they just don't have the same numbers as Wisconsin. I am convinced. Yeah, they're just too small. ⁓ all the throughout this story, I kept feeling the presence of how alcohol in the UP culture played such a, I felt like a pretty big role throughout the book. Leah And Jordan: Yep. Cause they're small. Mm-hmm. Jordan: And it's just one of those things that I just don't love about up there. So. Leah And Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. Just like the binge drinking culture. Yeah. I don't miss that about college too. that was very big in college. ⁓ alcohol abuse. If you don't finish the last three steps, it's warm beer. Why would I want to finish the last three steps? ⁓ step ⁓ off. ⁓ gosh. And okay. Getting iced with the, the Smirnoff ice. Have you ever done that? Jordan: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I've seen it done, but I've never been. Leah And Jordan: ⁓ yeah, me too. can't, I can't chug. like it just, it would take me 20 minutes to just drink the spirit of ice. So thankfully that's never been the thing around me. Jordan: Gosh I if I had to chug something like that I'm positive that I would throw it up within 30 seconds Leah And Jordan: It's coming right back up. yeah, for sure. I can't even, I can't I could never even do like the bomb shots, like the jaegar bombs or the cherry bombs. Like that's too much liquid to go in my mouth at once. I can't do it. I gotta take like three like ⁓ to it. And that's not how you do a shot. ⁓ no, no, no. Now don't get me wrong. I some good times in college, ⁓ but it every day. ⁓ Jordan: Ha ⁓ I know, I know. And I'm not a prude either. I feel like I need to state that for the record. I do enjoy drinking, but... just a difference between occasionally drinking ⁓ you have to drink to fit in. Leah And Jordan: No. Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, or to have fun. Mm-hmm. Like, I had two glasses of wine at Easter and I was feeling it. I was like, I had a headache all Monday, all yesterday. I was like, oh, why? Two glasses of wine, come on. Oh, all right, well, should we open this Mitzi can of worms? Jordan: Yep. So. That's funny. Good lord. We are talking longer than I thought we were going to talk about this. Leah And Jordan: I, yeah, me too. was like, wow, we're not even halfway through this outline. I thought Mitzi was like super cliche at the beginning, like, okay. You're the bitchy mother-in-law. Here we go. ⁓ But then like, I really did get become to accept her as like a in law as the book just went on. And I was like, you know what? Jordan: do feel like the rest of it's gonna go a lot quicker, because I feel like we're Yes. Yep. Yes. Yep. Leah And Jordan: there are people like this out there. that are just bitches to their daughter-in-laws. ⁓ I am, taking frantic notes. I'm like, never be like this, Leah. You have three potential daughter-in-laws. ⁓ cool! ⁓ Jordan: Yep. Yeah. Yeah, be cool! Leah And Jordan: Step off! Yep, yep, I am not, yeah, Monster in Law not happening here, no way! Yep, yep, take it down. Jordan: Leah, that's so great. Good job. Yeah. Good, you hear that? All you ladies out there. your daughters should go and find Leah's son someday. ⁓ Leah And Jordan: Yep. Yeah. I am schooling them up. Anytime Cameron spits in the sink and there's toothpaste residue, I'm like, Oh, Hey Cam, come over here. Look. Oh, what do you see here? Oh yeah. We should rinse that off. Right? Uh huh. Yes. So, They, if they pee anywhere that's not in the toilet, they get the toilet paper and they wipe that mess up. Yep. We're, yep. We're, starting the habits now. Jordan: Good job, Leah. Good, wow, you're crushing it. Yeah, I think that's a very wise Yeah, Mitzi in the first half of the book, she just was like classic bad mother-in-law and didn't think a ton about her until it really started to ramp up. And I did find it a little bit odd that... Leah And Jordan: Yep. Mm-hmm. Jordan: She was so pushy about the grandkids stuff that Heather and Ryan just never told her like, mom, we've had two miscarriages. Leah And Jordan: Right, which seems like that would maybe shut her up a little bit, you know? Like, hello, we are literally trying and it's just out of our control. Jordan: Yes! Yeah. Yeah. I was surprised that they didn't take that step. That seems unrealistic to me, I guess. feel like as... I mean, I get like, yeah, it's personal and private, but maybe would have done something to help that. I don't know. Leah And Jordan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I don't know. She seems like she's beyond help. So yeah. Yeah. Jordan: Well, by the end of the book, yes, I totally agree. In the moment though where we hadn't quite reached the fullness of her. Leah And Jordan: True. hadn't cast her off as you, there's no way you can recover from who you are. Jordan: Yeah, exactly. Yes. So, but yeah, I think you could chalk her up as a true narcissist and sociopath. Leah And Jordan: ⁓ yeah, a hundred percent. Yep. Narcissist right there. Yep. Textbook case diagnosed here. Bam. Jordan: And I cannot believe that she killed Kelly out in the woods. Leah And Jordan: Yeah, that, but if we go back to the, if we go back to the narcissist portion of it here, and if she felt like Kelly was going to be threatening her baby boy, like that could drive her to do something like that. But then pulling it off, you gotta think she was probably in Louis Vuitton heels doing this. Like you're not sneaking around the woods. ⁓ again, everybody was piss drunk that was there. So. Jordan: That is not sitting well with me. Yeah! Leah And Jordan: They were not going to be at the top of their observation game, Jordan: True. Yeah, I just can't believe she went in the woods to do the job. Leah And Jordan: Well, I mean, you know, the only thing that would do it is her precious, darling baby boy. his needs would be the only thing I could think of that would make her do that. Jordan: Wait, I thought she did it because didn't want Kelly to spill the secret about the car accident. Leah And Jordan: Right, because that would eventually, I think, impact Ryan then, because Heather would look at this situation and be like, wait, what? And then question Ryan. Yeah, I think it was all boiling down to like a selfish protection of her and her secrets, but then also like, by extension, I think some of Ryan. Jordan: ⁓ I see, see. Ugh, that lady. Okay, quick. The rocking horse scene at baby shower? ⁓ Leah And Jordan: Maybe. Who knows? that was next level. was like, what? Jordan: i can't remember if there was something that already made us reach a tipping point with her but at that point i was like oh fuck this lady ⁓ I she knew in that moment that that that Julie's baby was Ryan's. She had to have known. Leah And Jordan: I think so too. I think so too. Yeah. So then it probably, the affair probably was carrying on for some time and he probably confided in his mom or she picked up on it somehow. Yeah. Yes. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. yeah. Cause they were going for like monthly luncheons. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ Jordan: Julie did. There's no way Julie wasn't telling Mitzi that they were having an affair. Yeah! Yeah. Leah And Jordan: Gross keeping all those sounds in there. Okay got any other characters? To analyze all right good. We're going into character cocktails. I got some good ones and some terrible ones so Mitzi She is gonna be a Molotov Molotov Molotov cocktail. How do you Molotov? Don't the one thing cuz she just likes to blow up people's lives. So that's her she's not even a real drink suit I did there the cocktail Jordan: Ugh. Nope. Ma? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, she absolutely loves blowing up everybody's spot constantly. Leah And Jordan: Yeah. Thank you. Yep. Yep. Just nuclear. ⁓ then Heather is chocolate milk. I don't know. That literally just popped in my mind. I don't have a reason for it. So I just left it. Heather's chocolate milk. Jordan: Okay, that's fine. Leah And Jordan: Ryan, this is a good one. Ryan is one of those disgusting health smoothies with lemongrass and celery and kale and ginger all blended in and it looks good on the outside and you're like reading the ingredients. this is gonna be good for me. I can do it. And then you taste it and you're ⁓ like, ⁓ it's so Paul one of these for me once at, ⁓ think it was dirt, smoothie place. And I was like, okay. Jordan: ⁓ yep. Leah And Jordan: Let's do it, let's try it. Like these are a lot of good for you ingredients. And I took one sip and I had to spew it out outside. ⁓ was ⁓ gross. ⁓ tasted like grass, but just, I don't, but then the ginger was in it too. Like, ⁓ Jordan: Yeah. Leah And Jordan: It was real bad. So that's Ryan. Yeah. Jordan: Yeah, good, good pick. Good pick. ⁓ cause he really is a... The whole time I was like, ⁓ give him, give him a break girl. like... Leah And Jordan: Just a piece of shit. Yeah, like, he's not cheating on you. Would you just relax? And then he was. Hmm. Hmm. Ugh. Yeah. Jordan: Yes. Yeah, fuck. ⁓ hilarious. I'm also Leah And Jordan: Okay, wow, I have a lot for highs and lows. No, sorry, go ahead. Jordan: Real quick, we talked so much about alcohol and not one of those cocktails had alcohol in that. Leah And Jordan: You're right. Okay, I got highs. I did really appreciate like the nostalgia of high school and just like the embarrassment and insecurity that went along with it. And ⁓ a senior boy paid attention to, ⁓ my gosh. So I have a good funny story about this. ⁓ Freshman ⁓ I in study hall and the study halls were just in a random teacher's room and it was, it was with mixed classes. So ⁓ I Jordan: It's fine. All right, get into it. What do you got for highs and lows? Leah And Jordan: sat right behind, because there was a seating chart, Jake Owen, who was the homecoming senior king. He was the quarterback. He was the star of the baseball team and the football team, everything. So Jake Owen was Pacelli number one hot guy when I was a freshman. And he would, every day, turn around and be like, working on math homework today. And I would just die from embarrassment. I'd be like, yes. Jordan: you Leah And Jordan: Don't look at me. I was like Kristen Stewart in and up like just like yeah I could not speak words to this boy. I could not do it like I just Was mortified every time he even looked in my direction. I was like And then of course I'm like writing a note to my best friend like I got Jake Owen and talked to me ⁓ So that's, that, she captured that aspect of high school really well for me. Jordan: That's super funny. Yeah, I could see that big time, especially because what was that guy's, ⁓ Julie's husband, she married Chad, who she had, I think his name was Chad, who had like the two, she had two very bad sexual encounters with him. Leah And Jordan: Yeah, I don't remember. Sounds right. ⁓ yes, that's right. Which no, Mark. Mark is his name, because this is my next part here. The disgustingness of college boys houses. she totally encapsulated that. I almost barfed reading about how when she went home with Mark in college, I could smell this house she was describing. I do not miss that part of college at all. Jordan: Yes. Yeah. Leah And Jordan: I literally remember doing exactly what Heather did in the bathroom when I'd visit my college boyfriend's college house. you just have to hover over the toilet seat because it is so crusted with literal shit and puke and pee and God knows what else. ⁓ so No one in that house ever cleaned that bathroom. I bought cleaning supplies one time. I like suited up. I cleaned the whole kitchen and the whole bathroom for them because I was so disgusted by it and then literally no one ever touched them ever again. ⁓ they not come away with diseases from that house? So you better believe I'm raising my boys up not to be nasty like that. ⁓ Jordan: That's. That's so gross. my god. Leah And Jordan: It was disgusting. was disgusting. Ugh. No, I don't like it either. It was nasty because my, my college boyfriend was on the wrestling team. likes to joke about this, be like, all those diseases you probably picked up at Wrestle House. Like they didn't clean anything. And it was so gross. It was so gross. Like they'd host parties and people would spill beer and they'd just use paper towel and just Jordan: I don't like that at all. Ugh. You Leah And Jordan: push it to the side ⁓ vomiting just thinking about it again. ⁓ Yeah, that was not a good time. Jordan: Yeah, that's so gross. ⁓ that's so gross. That was a tough scene. I was super glad she got out of there. No. No, no, no. Leah And Jordan: ⁓ and the other thing that I liked was I, did, I did think it was funny how she became the influencer. ⁓ said, ⁓ literally wrote in the notes, Jordan, that's the goal for this podcast. One day, one day we're going to start making money off it. ⁓ day, one day we're, we're right on track. We're at 500 Spotify listens. So bam, we're coming for you fantasy fan girls. ⁓ Jordan: Yeah! ⁓ We are getting there. Leah And Jordan: I read, I was just curious. was like, you know, what was their time on? Like when they blew up, it was within the first three months of their podcasting. ⁓ I guess September, October, November, December, January, February, March. And we're in month eight, Jordan. ⁓ it. ⁓ window is closed. ⁓ Yeah, we're getting there. We're getting there. All right. What are your highs? ⁓ Jordan: Ooh. shucks! ⁓ That it'll pick up it'll pick up Yeah, so I think she captured the UP culture pretty well. it lots of fun with the shout outs to all the local places. she nailed all very perfectly. So that was very fun. I did enjoy that that part of the book. Whoa, goodness, I'm getting ⁓ Leah And Jordan: Mm-hmm. I know. Jordan: I mean I know she's happy about her pregnancy but it's with her husband who had a baby with another woman and had been having an affair on her for years so. Leah And Jordan: Mm-hmm. and has the mother-in-law from how and the father-in-law who killed your parents. Jordan: Yeah. Yeah, I was like, I still don't even know that that's like and you're in jail for it. You're gonna be in jail having your baby. I don't understand Leah And Jordan: Yeah. And then, and then they take your baby away. Like you don't get to have your baby in jail. Sorry. some of lows that we haven't talked about yet? ⁓ Jordan: That's we just covered it. Leah And Jordan: all right. I have I have one one that I think you're gonna like I don't love how they called Heather heath heath like what ⁓ it gotta be heath right? ⁓ Like abbreviated name they they spelled it Heath I yeah, but I think it's it's gotta be heath right cuz she's Heather they wouldn't call her he ⁓ But yes, so like I knew they were trying to call her heath Jordan: pronouncing it Heath Yeah, yeah, you're right. Leah And Jordan: but I kept reading Heath. what I wrote. said, I wish they almost had a noodle nickname, like in a holidays. Shout out to episode 10. Remember how we hated that? We're like, why are they going to noodle? Where is this nickname coming from? I would have rather that than Heath or Heath. ⁓ was too weird. Did not roll off the tongue and yeah. ⁓ Jordan: Yeah. You ⁓ I mean, yeah, I would agree with that. That's super funny. also, I was just reading it as Heath the whole time and I did not think anymore about it. Leah And Jordan: ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Classic mispronunciation happening. ⁓ boy, yeah. And then I did have a gripe about how Heather was so insecure about her relationship with Ryan, but then I literally had to come in at the end and be like, yes, that was warranted, so. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Jordan: Alright, what'd you have for best scene? Leah And Jordan: had the best scene. at first I wasn't sure that I liked the therapist's point of view chapters, but as they went on, I did think they were a successful technique. I think it kept the suspense moving ⁓ I did like the big reveal twist at the end. I thought that was fine. Jordan: I think honestly that's I Didn't even pick a best scene, but I do think it has to be the big twist at the end just because it wrapped up so many pieces and Leah And Jordan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jordan: I just wish I didn't feel so gotcha at the end of it was all. But I do think it was probably the best scene. Leah And Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. The worst I have two worst one is a obvious one. And one, I, I feel pretty strongly about this. ⁓ don't like how Heather can get so mad at her in-laws for supporting Mark. Mark was the guy that she went home with in college and then spread all those lies about her. Why she can get so mad at them for supporting Mark's campaign because they vetted him. and he came back clean. How can she be mad at them when she's never told them or anyone what he tried to do to her? she told Ryan, but is that something that he's going to go spill to his parents? It seems like not. And also just stay out of your in-laws politics, family politics, don't mix. just, just get that off your head right away. I don't think, I don't like that she gave them an ultimatum, especially knowing how Mitzi feels about her. Like, Jordan: Yeah. Leah And Jordan: Why would they pick you? she doesn't like you. that was a bad play on her part. Jordan: Great. Leah that was fantastic great job that also sat weird with me but I couldn't quite figure out why and you nailed it good job Leah And Jordan: ⁓ Yes, yes, because she's mad at them about something that she'd never even communicated to anybody. then my other one was the truth about the accident. ⁓ it's just too unrealistic way they would make Lisa take the fall and then she would do it simply because Mitzi was going to reveal the truth about them. that's not a big enough motivating factor to me. maybe ⁓ Jordan: Yep, yep, yep. Leah And Jordan: If somehow maybe Mitzi paid Lisa off and drove a wedge between Lisa and Frank, like that would be a bit more believable to me here. But because we're scared of this little Torpy woman, we're just going to do what she says. And I'm going to go down for manslaughter. I don't like that. Jordan: Mm-hmm. No, yeah, Lisa totally got shaft in that deal. It makes zero sense. Leah And Jordan: Mm-hmm. Jordan: God, Mitzi and Frank are the worst. How, how, this is just hitting me. How has Lisa stayed in love with Frank all these fucking years? Leah And Jordan: for real, for, cause she moved away too, so they weren't even in the same town. she moved away. You knew what he did to you. You knew he didn't leave this other woman for you. It's not like you were even sleeping together on the side. you're just pining for him in your heart. No, this goes back to these tangled vines too, when they were writing letters to each other over what are you doing? Move ⁓ on. ⁓ Jordan: Yes! Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. You're so right. Lisa, what is your problem? And she dies from cancer. Leah And Jordan: Yep, out to episode three, Tangled Signs, or whatever it was. Yeah, I know, that seemed, I don't know. I guess we had to get rid of her somehow, but. No kidding, see, and that would be another if she was like slow poisoning her over all these years. that would have been a twist. I would have been a bit more like, ho, you know? ⁓ Jordan: Mitzi probably gave her cancer. Yeah, Mitzi like hired someone to go sprinkle some radon or something in Lisa's house. Leah And Jordan: Yes. Yeah. Get some, what's that? Asbestos just in the air, you know? I like that. I like that. Okay. Jordan: Yeah! ⁓ That's so funny. Leah And Jordan: was that your low or did you have something else or worse I mean? ⁓ yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Jordan: We talked about my low, which I picked the high school reunion. hated everything about it. Leah And Jordan: ⁓ Okay. What we would change. This is not specific to this book, but in general. Okay. Follow me on this here. I want a book written from the point of view of a popular girl. literally every book I feel like that I've ever read is about the underdog or the loser or the girl next door, ⁓ is basically kind of how I viewed myself in high school. Right? I was not part of the it crew. Jordan: Yep. Leah And Jordan: I want a book from a popular girl who knows she's hot and knows she's popular because I want to know what are their lives like? Like, are they insecure too? Do they know they're popular? So like, this is the dilemma. Do only quote unquote, loser girls next door become authors and then write about themselves? Because why do we never get a mean girl or a popular girl telling a story? Is it because they're not likable? Do all girls just see themselves as losers? And that's why even a popular girl who writes a book makes her FMC seem less than like, I'm just, this is such an interesting debate. if you were an it girl in high school, weigh in, ⁓ was not. ⁓ I was, was a dork mixed with an athlete, mixed with a nerd, which is why I loved my small town experience. Shout out to Pacelli, cause I was part of all these little clicks and groups. Is this my hot take debate? do only losers write books? ⁓ I mean it like that way, but you know, if you were cool in high school, could you please reach out to us? What was your experience? ⁓ And would you writing a book about it? Because I would read that book. Jordan: Okay, here I'm gonna... Leah And Jordan: That was long-winded! Jordan: debate with you because I think Heather is. This is my gripe with Heather. She is the popular girl. She was homecoming queen or prom queen, whatever one of the two. And this is my problem with her and why I felt she was ⁓ not like realistic character is because she was so down to earth and Leah And Jordan: The popular girl. Okay. Okay. Yep. Yep. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm But she was a shark. She was a mean girl. Yeah, okay So do they that's interesting do mean girls not know? They're mean girls Like did she not realize she's part of the bitch Or do mean girls know they're mean girls and lean into it I don't know Jordan: you know yes yes I don't think that's... Yeah, I... I... I think you probably have both, I think that, I think you get both situations. Leah And Jordan: Okay. Yeah. Like. Jordan: I think Heather falls into the category of you were a mean girl. You maybe didn't realize it. Leah And Jordan: Mm-hmm. Jordan: But... Leah And Jordan: is so interesting. I know, I don't know. ⁓ Jordan: I, that's where her stereotypical ⁓ was not ringing true for me because I was like, you're putting on a show. You want people to think you're this stereotypical ⁓ person. Yes. Leah And Jordan: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. This nice girl next door, yeah. But if you were the homecoming queen, chances are you were a bitch. I'm like, sorry. ⁓ Our homecoming queen was not. She was a delight. She was very kind. Jordan: Yes, yes. And like And maybe she was too, but like you're in the it crowd who's going to the parties, who's winning popular elections in high school. Leah And Jordan: Yeah. Yep. Right. Right. And let's be real, the peer pressure is on fire and you're probably succumbing to it. you're probably acting like everybody else. Hmm. ⁓ Jordan: There's no way that she wasn't, she was a popular girl. She absolutely was popular. Leah And Jordan: Yeah. Mm-hmm. But she still had these, these struggles too. Okay. So, all right. All right. But yeah, I feel like there aren't many novels that center on the popular girl as the main character. Jordan: Yeah, no, I think that's very true, but I don't do popular girls read. Leah And Jordan: Hmm. Yeah, I don't Good point shut up Jordan ⁓ Jordan: Reading is not cool, Leah. You know, when I was carrying around my Twilight books in high school, there was just, you know, not a lot of time for anything else to happen in my life. Leah And Jordan: Yes, yes, yes Nope nope and that is okay All right, what are you changing? Jordan: ⁓ my gosh. talked about it already, wish there was a little bit more on the investigative side of things. And ⁓ the gotcha ending, I would have liked there to be more clues with the therapy sessions, just to like, I need, yes, I want a little bit more breadcrumbs or even like, like one of the things with the silent patient where we knew upfront that somebody had died, but you're like, Leah And Jordan: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Sure. Yeah. Just a little sprinkle more of those breadcrumbs. Yeah. our feelers were out. Jordan: You didn't know who or how. Yeah. I wish I was more, yeah, like suspecting things to happen throughout it. I wish there was like, yes, I wish there was like a little bit bigger of a setup with the therapist upfront. Just so we were, yeah, reading it from the lens of, think reading it from the lens of knowing that she was in like court appointed therapy. Leah And Jordan: Follow play. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yep. Sure. I could see that. Yeah. Jordan: Even just that, we don't need to know did she attack someone? Did she do this? Leah And Jordan: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Yes, have been a nice little, yeah, and that would have kept the suspense going even more then too. this isn't just I'm seeking therapy for myself. Yeah. Cause even, yeah, yeah. Me too, I thought she was just like, ⁓ I'm just going to a therapist. Yeah. Jordan: Ray. Right, that's what I thought it was the whole time. Right, I think for this to really ring true as a thriller, that needed to be established like upfront, which is also why I feel like it was a gotcha because I literally just thought she was in therapy getting help. Maybe she was gonna go through a divorce or maybe she was. Leah And Jordan: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Right, right. Right. So I wonder, is this even technically constituted a thriller? I don't even, I don't even know. We'll have to see what Goodreads says about it. ⁓ okay. Well, while we're looking that up, my hot take debate, this is a good one. Can exes be friends? Jordan: Yeah, I don't know either. ⁓ no. Leah And Jordan: Yeah, absolutely not. what are you talking about? you, you were romantically involved with someone that doesn't just go away and dissipate. Like, no. Mm-hmm. Jordan: Yeah. You can be acquaintances, but not friends. those are two very different things. ⁓ Leah And Jordan: Right. Yeah. And you don't have to hang out. is it okay for someone who's married to hang out and be friends with their ex? I feel like, no, I feel like that's, that's weird. That is super, you don't need that. Why you're married. Why do you need that other person? ⁓ Delta County number one. ⁓ There's a County number two. Midnight in Delta Jordan: No. super weird. You don't. Leah And Jordan: Okay, so Heather is pregnant and in handcuffs. Oh boy. Yes. I want to read it now. I get out of here. Does it say when it was published? Well, people are giving it stars back in 2022. Jordan: It's a follow-up to the story? When did that come out? ⁓ okay. So the answer is yes. Leah And Jordan: Wow. Huh. We'll have to pencil that one in. Yeah. Well, that's good. Maybe we will get a bit more closure from Heather then. All right. All right. Jordan: Everyone was pissed. Leah And Jordan: Yeah, ⁓ well that okay the end he makes a little more sense now if she knew there was gonna be a sequel all right all right Jordan: Yeah, reading as a standalone is different than knowing if it's a sequel. It still is a gotcha. I don't care what you say. Leah And Jordan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right, right. Well, that's interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, do you have a hot take debate? Nope. All right. F-M-K, here we go. Jordan, who you effing? Jordan: Nope. ⁓ good lord. This was nearly impossible. Near. Okay, well my first pick. ⁓ The night before the high school reunion they go to that bar. Was it Ernie's? Maybe? I don't know. It's one of the Escanaba bars. Whatever. Leah And Jordan: No, I have two great picks! Who'd you pick? Who- Okay. Yep. I don't know. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jordan: but she sees like her three friends from the north side. I just pick one of them because yeah, yeah. Leah And Jordan: ⁓ one of those guys. Okay. Yeah. Who we don't really know. Sure. Sure. Sure. Okay. So I picked Mitch, the guy that made out with Kelly, cause he seemed like a good time guy. You know, he was like funny and joking. or Buckweed, the guy that owned the cabin. Jordan: Isn't he the one that like smashed that girl's head in to the ground when they TP'd his house on Devil's Night? Leah And Jordan: I'm Oh yeah, was that him? Yeah, I take that back. You're right, because he freaked out. had like PTSD. You're right, right, you're right, right. Oh yeah. Jordan: Yeah. Yeah, I don't think... Yes. Yeah, he is a little unstable. Okay, that's hilarious. I'm super glad that you know his name is Mitch because I put Mike to marry but that's who I intended it to be was Mitch. Yes. Yeah. Leah And Jordan: Undo. Mitch. Yeah. I'm Oh, that guy. All right. All right. right. Yep. His name is Mitch. Okay. Yeah. I came up with the defense lawyer, Atari. don't even remember much about him, but literally no one in this book caught my interest. So I think I will just die an old spinster in this book series world. Thank you. No. Jordan: You Angele, thought the lawyer's name was like Angele or something. I don't know, whatever. Okay, who you killing? Leah And Jordan: I don't know, something with a no. I don't know. I mean, the obvious answer is Mitzi, but honestly, I want to kill Ryan. Like, what a turd bag. He gas lit Heather for who knows how long, then has a secret fucking love child behind her back. Like, I am glad that at least Heather got pregnant, because otherwise I feel that might have been too devastating. ⁓ my gosh, my husband has a child with another woman. I keep having all these miscarriages. ⁓ Jordan: YESSSS Leah And Jordan: At least she has that, even if it is with a piece of garbage dirt bag. Jordan: Yeah, we had the exact same thought I wrote this is off book But I want to kill ryan because ⁓ a fuckhead ⁓ Leah And Jordan: That's what I came up with. Yeah, yeah. Yep. I have a good question even though I know the answer's yours. Jordan: ⁓ goodness. all right, let's hear it. Leah And Jordan: Okay, would you ever move back to your hometown? Jordan: No, and the first time I brought Steven up there, he goes, just so you know, I don't think I ever want to move up here. And I was like, that's a-okay. It's, yep. And guess what? I don't either. So it's fine. Leah And Jordan: Just putting that out there. ⁓ See, okay, I am I'm a hard IDK. I would love to be closer to my family. that's one big thing I miss ⁓ living out ⁓ I played my cousins almost every weekend. someone always had a packer party or a birthday party going on and we would just all go hang out at grandma's, play in the basement, play outside. ⁓ my kids are not to get that. And I am sad about that. Cause that was such a core memory for me. Jordan: Yes. Mm-hmm. Leah And Jordan: But it is weird being back in town and seeing everything that's sort of changed, but sort of stayed the same. But you're also an outsider now cause you don't live there anymore. ⁓ So just, ⁓ I know. I am also very established here and I have my friends and my job and it would be a really hard upheaval. realistically, I don't ever see it happening unless something drastic changes. Sorry, mom. ⁓ Jordan: Yeah. Yeah, no, I feel that a lot. Every time we go home, I'm like, oh, I wish I got to see my family more than what I do. That would be like the reason to move. But outside of that, I'm like, there's nothing for me. I love the restaurants in Green Bay, and I love my sports and my softball friends and the shopping and just like, Leah And Jordan: you Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. Jordan: My gym, all these things that like literally are not available up there. Leah And Jordan: in multiple hospitals within a 20 minute range to go to. Like you don't have to drive an hour and a half to have a baby, Laura. Jordan: Yes! Yeah. Yeah. Leah And Jordan: gonna be so nervous for her Jordan. ⁓ my gosh like the entire time that she was pregnant. I was like She's not gonna make it. She's gonna have a baby in the car. ⁓ my gosh, and it was fine She did it was all good, but like that that was very stressful for me Yeah Jordan: Yeah, yeah, it is a crazy thing to think about. I... Yeah. There's just like, yeah, stay in put. And I just keep telling myself that maybe I can convince my immediate family to move to Green Bay. Leah And Jordan: So we're staying put. All right. Yep, yep. We'll keep working on that. All right, where are you, Harry Potter legendary hype scale in this up? Jordan: Yep. I'm giving this on a Diagon Alley where it's a bit crowded with ideas and a few things that didn't quite work, but you can find some real gems in here. Leah And Jordan: Mm-hmm. And I came in with a Diagon Alley, I .5, so I did bump it up to the burrow. I ⁓ reading it. I thought I liked the twist, the gotcha at the end. ⁓ I think it was a good, it was good read. I was in it. Jordan: ⁓ Yep. I did find myself reading, especially the second half of the book. I was in it more than I was the first half. The first half was a lot of just not enjoying it. But yeah, I could see that. I can see the second half of the book being the burrow and the first half being Diagon and Allie. Leah And Jordan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep. Yep. So I did give it a four star on Goodreads. ⁓ I liked the nostalgia, the small town, the realistic characters. ⁓ My big beef was there was some unrealistic things that shake out in the end. I did want more development with that or more reasonable explanations for the reasons why people did things. But ⁓ I liked the toilet paper vixens. I thought that was funny. I liked all the small town jabs. like the alternating timeline chapters. ⁓ I gave it a four. Jordan: Good job. What does Goodreads say? Do you still have it open? Leah And Jordan: Oh yeah, will get it. Goodreads has it at 8,500 reviews coming in at a, 3.5. Yeah. Jordan: Okay, that's a lot of reviews though. Leah And Jordan: Um, yeah, yeah, it's more only 3000 people reviewed. The second one. So maybe it's cause I didn't know that it came out. Like when was this one published? I'm so okay. Oh, 2021. So she did the second one a year later. Wow. That's a quick turnaround. Jordan: ⁓ okay. Yeah, probably. ⁓ geez. Okay. Leah And Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. So I am recommending this to anyone who wants like a good book or wants to get back into reading. seems like this would be a good one to pick up. I, I kind of put it in like the, ⁓ Coho categories, but I liked it a lot better than I liked those. know people devour those and think those are really good for people who have journeyed away from reading for awhile. ⁓ so I think I'd, I'd lump it in kind of with that. Jordan: Sure, that makes sense. Okay. No, I like your recommendation. I'm just gonna piggyback on it. ⁓ Leah And Jordan: you recommending this anybody? ⁓ tail off that. cover design, it was a little too minimalistic me. I wish there was a little more of something, like the color scheme, but yeah, I could use a little more. ⁓ It had like, I think it was on like a little, yeah, Lake House, like, ⁓ yeah. Like the mist. Jordan: Hmm. Mm-hmm. I'm trying to remember what it looked like. ⁓ Was it like the shoreline? It's probably the house that they bought. Yeah. Leah And Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ okay. Do you have any actor portrayals? Cause I only have one. Jordan: I tried. I tried, but I gave up. What did you come up with? Leah And Jordan: Yeah, I got Mitzi. She is the mom from Schitt's Creek. ⁓ Like I could picture her. Jordan: Shh. So she was the character I was trying to pick somebody for. Now I got to. Leah And Jordan: Yeah. ⁓ You've disappeared! It's magic! ⁓ you're back! Jordan: I've never watched shitscreek yet. It's on my list, but I want to see who it is. Leah And Jordan: Yeah. We got into it for a while and then it is a little over the top. So we were watching it like every day. that was our dinner show for a while. And then it just got to be too much. And I was like, ⁓ Yeah, ⁓ Jordan: Catherine O'Hara? That's hilarious! ⁓ my gosh! Yes! Leah And Jordan: Yeah, yeah. Yep. Jordan: That's so funny. Yep. That's a great pick. I could absolutely picture her playing that character. Yeah. Leah And Jordan: Mm hmm. Yes. Heather, what are you doing? Yeah, yeah, she'd be great at that. And then I had, you could make this into like a, like a CW drama, right? Like I could see that being, you know, a little over the top. Yeah. Like teen romance type thing, something like that. Jordan: Okay. ⁓ yeah. Absolutely. Even like a soap opera. Leah And Jordan: ⁓ yeah, like a daytime TV show. Yep. Yep. Totally bro. Jordan: Yeah. Yeah, totally. Totally. There's so many wild characters. These characters get so off the rails. There's so much small town drama. Yeah. You could absolutely get away with that. ⁓ Leah And Jordan: Yeah. Move over Outer Banks. Here comes Delta County. Jordan: Yeah! ⁓ ⁓ awesome. All right, here we go. What are your thoughts on our hot takes? Let us know at onceponihottake at gmail.com or on Instagram or TikTok. We would love to hear from you. If you enjoyed today's episode, go and leave us a review and give us a follow so more book lovers can find our show. Leah And Jordan: Mm-hmm. We will be covering Project Hail Mary next, so buckle up, because that is gonna be a long episode, because we're covering both the book and the movie, and we're gonna try to get the boys' opinions worked in there too. So it is gonna be a long episode, and we can't wait! So remember, fairy tales are just the beginning. Unplug for a bit and dive into the next adventure with us. If you have any book suggestions, we would love to hear from you. Hit us up. ⁓ goodbye! This was so long. Jordan: Hahaha Goodbye. Leah And Jordan: Nope. Alright. Stop. ⁓