Latest / The Ben Ferguson Podcast / Big Stanford WIN for Free Speech, plus guest Dave McCormick on How We Beat China

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Big Stanford WIN for Free Speech, plus guest Dave McCormick on How We Beat China · The Ben Ferguson Podcast

0:01
Speaker 1: Welcome at his verdict was Senator Ted Cruz. Ben Ferguson
0:04
Speaker 1: with you and Senator, We've got a fun podcast for everybody.
0:08
Speaker 1: We're gonna have a guest tonight and that is going
0:11
Speaker 1: to be Dave McCormick. He has got a new book out,
0:15
Speaker 1: Superpower in Peril of Battle Plan to Renew America. He's
0:19
Speaker 1: going to join us in a moment to talk about
0:22
Speaker 1: this and the timeliness of this book is spot on.
0:24
Speaker 1: Dealing with China right now. But before we get to that,
0:27
Speaker 1: we've got a victory to celebrate. You got a letter
0:31
Speaker 1: back about a previous podcast that we did exposing a
0:37
Speaker 1: federal judge that was shut down at one of the
0:40
Speaker 1: Ivy League schools. I'll let you take it from there
0:42
Speaker 1: on this victory lap. Well, sure, now this is yet
0:46
Speaker 1: another victory. It's been a good week. We keep having big,
0:48
Speaker 1: big wins. This of course, concerned Stanford Law School and
0:53
Speaker 1: something we've talked about at length on the podcast, which
0:56
Speaker 1: is Judge Kyle Duncan went out to Stanford Law School.
0:59
Speaker 1: He was speaking there, was invited by the Federalist Society
1:02
Speaker 1: and a group of left wing activists showed up there.
1:04
Speaker 1: They protested there. They screamed at him, they cursed at him,
1:08
Speaker 1: they made sexually profane attacks at him, They shouted him down,
1:13
Speaker 1: They prevented him from giving his speech. It was outrageous.
1:17
Speaker 1: It then became even worse because he asked, quite reasonably,
1:21
Speaker 1: is there anyone from the administration here? And the Dean
1:24
Speaker 1: for d EI for Diversity, Equity and Inclusion stepped forward,
1:28
Speaker 1: and he for a moment thought, oh good, there's an
1:31
Speaker 1: adult in the room who will actually stop them from
1:33
Speaker 1: shouting me down. Well. No, It turned out the Dean
1:36
Speaker 1: had a prepared screed six minutes that she read from
1:42
Speaker 1: where she sided with the protester. She denounced the judge.
1:45
Speaker 1: She said how painful his very existence was. She kept saying.
1:50
Speaker 1: Her odd phrase was is the juice worse the squeeze?
1:54
Speaker 1: In other words, is it worth it to let you speak?
1:57
Speaker 1: Because our sensitive natures will be troubled? It was outrageous.
2:02
Speaker 1: We talked about it at length. In response, I did
2:06
Speaker 1: several things. One of the things I did is I
2:08
Speaker 1: sent a letter to the Texas State Bar urging the
2:10
Speaker 1: Texas State Bar to inquire of every graduate of Stanford
2:14
Speaker 1: for the next three years whether they participated in screaming
2:17
Speaker 1: and harassing and shouting down and cursing at the federal judge.
2:21
Speaker 1: Because to be a member of the bar, the bar
2:22
Speaker 1: has to make a determination that you have the character
2:25
Speaker 1: and fitness to do so. And if you don't know
2:27
Speaker 1: how to deal with a federal judge without screaming and
2:30
Speaker 1: cursing at him, you are not, in my view, fit
2:33
Speaker 1: to be a member of the bar. A second letter
2:35
Speaker 1: I sent was to Stanford Law School, and Stanford Law
2:39
Speaker 1: School has a free speech policy. The policy, on the
2:42
Speaker 1: face of is quite good. It says that you have
2:44
Speaker 1: a right to free speech, that speakers that come to
2:47
Speaker 1: Stanford have a right to be heard, that the people
2:49
Speaker 1: who want to hear the speakers have a right to
2:51
Speaker 1: hear what they have to say, and that students don't
2:52
Speaker 1: have a right to shout them down. And I asked Stanford,
2:56
Speaker 1: I said, number one, what are you going to do
2:59
Speaker 1: concerning the specific students who violated this policy? Is there
3:03
Speaker 1: going to be any discipline? And number two, what are
3:06
Speaker 1: you going to do with this dean who defied Stanford's
3:11
Speaker 1: policy and sided with the aggressive protesters rather than the
3:17
Speaker 1: right of the speaker. The federal judge to give his remarks, well,
3:22
Speaker 1: we got a response back from Stanford Law School on
3:25
Speaker 1: March twenty second. March twenty second happens to be my
3:28
Speaker 1: dad's eighty fourth birthday, and so I thought it was
3:31
Speaker 1: a great birthday present because, much to my astonishment, I'm
3:34
Speaker 1: actually going to say something nice about Stanford Law School.
3:38
Speaker 1: It is a letter from the President of Stanford University
3:40
Speaker 1: and a letter from the Dean of Stanford Law School,
3:44
Speaker 1: woman named Jenny Martinez, who actually went to law school
3:46
Speaker 1: with I know Jenny. She was a year behind me,
3:48
Speaker 1: I think in law school. She's now the dean of
3:50
Speaker 1: the Stanford Law School. And their letter broke the news
3:56
Speaker 1: number one that the dean has been suspended. And this
4:00
Speaker 1: is a big deal. I asked specifically about the dean,
4:02
Speaker 1: and I'm going to quote from the letter. The response is,
4:05
Speaker 1: Associate Dean tien Steinbach is currently on leave. Generally speaking,
4:11
Speaker 1: the university does not comment publicly on pending personnel matters.
4:15
Speaker 1: That's a big deal for a so called elite law
4:19
Speaker 1: school like Stanford Law School to take their high priestess
4:24
Speaker 1: of diversity and put her on leave for stifling free speech. Now,
4:29
Speaker 1: mind you, she completely defied the university policy but in
4:33
Speaker 1: today's left wing, woke culture, it is remarkable and I'm
4:38
Speaker 1: going to say Stanford is to be commended for holding
4:41
Speaker 1: its deans to the standard of following school policy. And
4:45
Speaker 1: then secondly, with regard to the students, what Stanford said
4:51
Speaker 1: in response is they said they're not going to discipline
4:53
Speaker 1: the individual students. I was disappointed at that, but their reasoning,
4:56
Speaker 1: as they said, because we had an administ they're a
5:00
Speaker 1: dean who refuse to follow our own policy, so we're
5:04
Speaker 1: not going to hold the students responsible. I don't entirely
5:07
Speaker 1: agree with that, but it wasn't a crazy thing they said.
5:09
Speaker 1: But here's what also they said. In summary, the university
5:13
Speaker 1: is taking the following steps to address these issues in
5:15
Speaker 1: the near term. One, staff will receive additional training on
5:20
Speaker 1: the role of any administrator's president events to ensure that
5:23
Speaker 1: university rules on disruption of events will be followed. Two.
5:27
Speaker 1: We will also adopt a more explicit policy with clear
5:30
Speaker 1: protocols for dealing with disruptions that will better protect the
5:33
Speaker 1: rights of speakers and also those who wish to exercise
5:36
Speaker 1: their right to protest within permissible bounds. This will bring
5:40
Speaker 1: greater clarity and certainty about future enforcement of the policy,
5:43
Speaker 1: including through disciplinary sanctions as appropriate. Three currently enrolled law
5:49
Speaker 1: students will attend a mandatory half day session on the
5:54
Speaker 1: topic of freedom of speech and the norms of the
5:58
Speaker 1: legal profession. These sessions will include speakers representing a range
6:02
Speaker 1: of viewpoints. And four a committee will work during the
6:07
Speaker 1: spring quarter here feedback from the faculty, students, and members
6:10
Speaker 1: of the bar, including our alumni, and make further recommendations
6:13
Speaker 1: on the steps that the law school should take. This
6:16
Speaker 1: is a big deal. It's a big victory the fact
6:19
Speaker 1: that these woke, angry leftists are going to be required
6:24
Speaker 1: from the school to learn about free speech, to learn. Look,
6:27
Speaker 1: if you're training to be a member of the bar
6:30
Speaker 1: and you want to appear before a federal judge, you
6:32
Speaker 1: may disagree with the federal judge. You may hate the
6:34
Speaker 1: federal judge. You may think the federal judge's rulings are
6:37
Speaker 1: wrong in every respect. But if you stand up and
6:41
Speaker 1: start yelling and screaming and cursing at the federal judge,
6:43
Speaker 1: you better a broad a toothbrush, because you are going
6:46
Speaker 1: to jail, and you're going to be held in contempt
6:47
Speaker 1: of court. And I'm going to commend Stanford. What happened
6:51
Speaker 1: there was disgraceful, but their response candidly surprised me. And
6:58
Speaker 1: it gives some degree of hope that that that free
7:03
Speaker 1: speech is possible and that maybe maybe maybe the pendulum
7:08
Speaker 1: of the woke schools maybe starting to swing back the
7:11
Speaker 1: other direction, especially since we've seen so many different speeches
7:18
Speaker 1: be stifled or canceled at universities over the last couple
7:21
Speaker 1: of years, especially conservative speakers. Let's just be clear about that,
7:26
Speaker 1: is that this is a good moment for free speech,
7:29
Speaker 1: as you described it, and it's a moment that we
7:31
Speaker 1: should all celebrate. I want to get into this other issue.
7:34
Speaker 1: You have a good friend, uh with you tonight who's
7:38
Speaker 1: got a new book that is that is out right now.
7:41
Speaker 1: You should get your hands on this book, especially with
7:45
Speaker 1: what we're dealing with with China right now. Dave McCormick's
7:47
Speaker 1: new book is out, Superpower and Peril, Battle Plan to
7:51
Speaker 1: Renew America. Before we get to that, I gotta tell
7:53
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Speaker 1: for up to ten years. All right, Senator, this is
9:17
Speaker 1: a very important moment I think in our country's history,
9:21
Speaker 1: specifically when it comes to China. We're seeing this unnatural
9:25
Speaker 1: alliance that's taking place right now, China Russia getting together.
9:29
Speaker 1: Dave McCormick is with you tonight as well. He's got
9:32
Speaker 1: this new book out. The timing couldn't have been better, Dave.
9:36
Speaker 1: Welcome to Verdict, first of off, and you've got to
9:38
Speaker 1: be excited to see not only your book come out,
9:41
Speaker 1: but also the timing of it with what's happening right
9:43
Speaker 1: now with China. Hey, Ben, thanks so much for having
9:46
Speaker 1: me and Senator thanks for having me on today. Yeah,
9:50
Speaker 1: the timing couldn't be perfect. It could be more perfect.
9:53
Speaker 1: Rather the that we're at a tipping point here. America's
9:57
Speaker 1: in decline, and we see that decline with then in
10:01
Speaker 1: terms of our economic situation, our national security capability, and
10:06
Speaker 1: spiritually what's going on in the country in terms of
10:09
Speaker 1: progressive ideology chipping away at American strength and some fundamentals
10:13
Speaker 1: of America. But at the very same time we see
10:16
Speaker 1: this huge existential challenge from China, and it's getting worse
10:21
Speaker 1: by the day. In the last couple of weeks, there
10:24
Speaker 1: was an article in the Wall Street Journal that cited
10:27
Speaker 1: a study by an Australian think tank that identified forty
10:31
Speaker 1: four technologies that are critical for economic growth and national security.
10:35
Speaker 1: The Chinese were in the lead in thirty seven of
10:39
Speaker 1: the forty four, according to this Australian think tank. And
10:43
Speaker 1: more than the technological capability, China is pursuing a strategy
10:49
Speaker 1: to displace America as the superpower. And that's what this
10:52
Speaker 1: book is about superpower and peril, is that our status
10:56
Speaker 1: in the world, our leadership at home, and our status
10:58
Speaker 1: in the world is in question. And you only have
11:01
Speaker 1: to look at the news this week, where in the
11:03
Speaker 1: very same week you saw the Chinese brokering a deal
11:07
Speaker 1: between Saudi Arabia and Iran, and you saw China Chinese
11:12
Speaker 1: leader she in Russia in partnership with Putin, in support
11:19
Speaker 1: of Putin's aggression in Ukraine. And if that doesn't give
11:22
Speaker 1: you evidence that China is on the move, then nothing will.
11:26
Speaker 1: And in essence, what I say in the book is
11:28
Speaker 1: China has a plan and we don't. America doesn't have
11:32
Speaker 1: a plan. In this book, Superpound Peril is about our
11:34
Speaker 1: plan for retaining our place in the world and for
11:37
Speaker 1: restoring the American dream. Well, and Ben, let me jump
11:40
Speaker 1: in here for a second because I want to tell
11:42
Speaker 1: our listeners a little bit about who Dave is. Dave
11:46
Speaker 1: is a good friend of mine. I've known Dave McCormick
11:48
Speaker 1: a long long time. Dave is someone who grew up
11:51
Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania. Grew up actually as parents at a Christmas
11:55
Speaker 1: tree farm. He grew up in rural Pennsylvania. He was
11:59
Speaker 1: a jock. He was All state in wrestling. He was
12:02
Speaker 1: All state in football. He ended up going to West Point.
12:07
Speaker 1: At West Point, he was captain of the wrestling team.
12:10
Speaker 1: He became an Army ranger. He was a combat veteran.
12:13
Speaker 1: He defended our nation. He came back to Pennsylvania. He
12:18
Speaker 1: became incredibly successful. Was a CEO of a very large
12:21
Speaker 1: company in Pittsburgh, created over a thousand jobs in Pittsburgh.
12:27
Speaker 1: He went to serve in the administration. He was a
12:29
Speaker 1: senior official in the Bush administration, the Treasury Department dealing
12:34
Speaker 1: with China, taking on China directly. He became the CEO
12:39
Speaker 1: of one of the largest hedge funds in the world,
12:41
Speaker 1: was incredibly successful as a financial leader. When Donald Trump
12:46
Speaker 1: was president, Donald Trump wanted Dave to come in as
12:49
Speaker 1: the deputy Secretary of Defense. He ended up not doing that,
12:52
Speaker 1: but Trump very much wanted him to do that. His wife,
12:55
Speaker 1: who was another dear friend, Dina Powell, was Donald Trump's
12:58
Speaker 1: deputy National Security adviser, and she's someone Heidi and I
13:02
Speaker 1: have known for for twenty four years now. Dave, as
13:06
Speaker 1: you will recall, just ran for Senate in the state
13:09
Speaker 1: of Pennsylvania, and he'd put on a heck of a campaign.
13:13
Speaker 1: I endorsed Dave the very first week he was in
13:15
Speaker 1: the campaign. I campaigned all over the state of Pennsylvania
13:19
Speaker 1: with him. We did rallies all over the state. Unfortunately,
13:23
Speaker 1: in that race, Donald Trump ended up endorsing doctor Oz.
13:29
Speaker 1: I wish he had not. I think that was a mistake.
13:31
Speaker 1: At the end of the day, Dave lost the primary.
13:34
Speaker 1: I think it was nine hundred and how many votes,
13:37
Speaker 1: nine fifteen votes of one point four million cast. I'm
13:41
Speaker 1: sure that number you'll forget, right, Ben, So I have
13:46
Speaker 1: to admit for me the number is nine hundred is
13:51
Speaker 1: for Dave. Nine hundred and fifteen is acutely carved into
13:55
Speaker 1: his consciousness. Yeah, as long as you had under that
13:59
Speaker 1: and the number of friends and your phone, then it's
14:01
Speaker 1: not your fault. Okay, just one. But if it's above
14:04
Speaker 1: that in your phone, it's totally your fault, exactly. But
14:07
Speaker 1: I will say the consequences are very real. I am
14:10
Speaker 1: absolutely certain had Dave gotten nine hundred and sixteen votes
14:15
Speaker 1: more in the primary, had he been the nominee, he
14:18
Speaker 1: would have won the general election. He would have been
14:21
Speaker 1: the new Republican Senator from the state of Pennsylvania. And
14:25
Speaker 1: the consequence of that, instead of a fifty one forty
14:27
Speaker 1: nine Democrats Senate, we would have fifty fifty Senate. What
14:30
Speaker 1: that would mean is Democrats on every committee would have
14:34
Speaker 1: equal representation. Right now they have a majority on every committee.
14:37
Speaker 1: It means Democrats can issue subpoenas, it means they have
14:40
Speaker 1: control to accelerate their agenda through the Senate. And it
14:45
Speaker 1: was heartbreaking. I will also say, and I'm not going
14:47
Speaker 1: to press Dave to make an announcement, but I'm going
14:48
Speaker 1: to be quite candid. I hope that he's running again
14:51
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four. I think he'll make a hell
14:53
Speaker 1: of a senator. And I was proud to stand with him.
14:56
Speaker 1: But this book he wrote is a book he'd actually
14:58
Speaker 1: been working on before Maria ran for Senate, and he
15:01
Speaker 1: suddenly found himself out on the campaign trail, shaking hands
15:04
Speaker 1: and kissing babies, and he kind of put the book
15:07
Speaker 1: on hold. And then when the campaign was over, he
15:09
Speaker 1: went back to the book and finished it and turned
15:10
Speaker 1: it around. And I say all of that to say,
15:13
Speaker 1: when Dave writes a about China, he does so from
15:17
Speaker 1: first hand experience having dealt with China. But b when
15:21
Speaker 1: he writes about the economy in America's economic situation, he
15:25
Speaker 1: does so as an incredibly successful business leader who has
15:30
Speaker 1: created jobs, who's worked to the highest levels of government,
15:33
Speaker 1: and so he's thinking seriously about how America wins this
15:39
Speaker 1: battle with China. I believe China is the single greatest
15:42
Speaker 1: geopolitical threat facing the United States for the next hundred years,
15:46
Speaker 1: and Dave's thinking seriously about how we win that battle. Dave,
15:50
Speaker 1: you had an interesting op ed that obviously connected to
15:54
Speaker 1: your book launch that was at Fox News, and it
15:58
Speaker 1: says China has a plan to lead the word old
16:00
Speaker 1: What's ours. The scary part is that may be one
16:04
Speaker 1: of the most accurate op ed headlines I've seen a
16:08
Speaker 1: long time, Because I genuinely don't know what America's plan
16:12
Speaker 1: is to lead the world under the Biden team. You'll
16:15
Speaker 1: look at just how out of touch this White House is.
16:18
Speaker 1: They're having the cast of Ted Lasso come in on
16:21
Speaker 1: the day that China and Russia are having very serious
16:24
Speaker 1: meetings about how they're basically going to align it with
16:27
Speaker 1: one another and in essence take over the world. Yeah,
16:31
Speaker 1: that split screen of those two things happening, those two
16:34
Speaker 1: press conferences at the same time said at all And
16:37
Speaker 1: I think you're right. We have very weak leadership in
16:41
Speaker 1: Joe Biden, and so I wish I could say it
16:43
Speaker 1: only related to China, but I think it relates to
16:46
Speaker 1: our economy. I think it relates to the disaster in
16:49
Speaker 1: Afghanistan and which really showed weakness, the invitation to putin
16:54
Speaker 1: into Ukraine with the Nordstream to pipeline, the shaky ham
17:00
Speaker 1: and Eggs responds to the Chinese satellite. All of these
17:04
Speaker 1: are signals to the world and signals to our adversaries
17:08
Speaker 1: that this is a moment to test and challenge America's
17:12
Speaker 1: weakness and to really be on offense. We need to
17:16
Speaker 1: do two things at the same time. We need to
17:18
Speaker 1: go to the gym at home. Part of our problem
17:23
Speaker 1: is a deterioration in some basic fundamentals. We have an
17:27
Speaker 1: economy that is spending at an excessive rate thirty one
17:31
Speaker 1: trillion dollars of debt, forty percent increase in discretionary spending
17:35
Speaker 1: in the last two years under Joe Biden, record high inflation,
17:38
Speaker 1: a direct consequence of those prolonged low interest rates combined
17:43
Speaker 1: with the spending of Biden. And as a consequence, our
17:45
Speaker 1: economy is weak and we've got big problems ahead, unfortunately,
17:50
Speaker 1: and that's why eighty percent of Americans think the country's
17:54
Speaker 1: had in the wrong direction. But we also have weakness
17:56
Speaker 1: in our military, with the wokeness that's or to hijacked
18:01
Speaker 1: our armed services, which is very sad for me as
18:03
Speaker 1: someone who served. I went to West Point, served in
18:06
Speaker 1: the army. But just as an example, the US Army
18:09
Speaker 1: released a climate change strategy before it released a war
18:13
Speaker 1: fighting strategy under Joe Biden, and we have this, uh,
18:18
Speaker 1: you know, what I can only say is this progressive
18:20
Speaker 1: ideology that's chipping away at some fundamentals that's made America
18:25
Speaker 1: exceptional So the schools where they're teaching a history of
18:29
Speaker 1: American America's that we don't recognize, that says America was
18:35
Speaker 1: conceived in sin. That makes our kids not recognize the
18:38
Speaker 1: exceptional contribution that America has done more in the history
18:41
Speaker 1: of the world than any other country for freedom and poverty,
18:44
Speaker 1: eradication and so forth. And if your kids don't think
18:47
Speaker 1: that the country's exceptional, then they don't understand what it
18:50
Speaker 1: takes to preserve it and fight for it. We see
18:53
Speaker 1: it in we see it in business with ESG criteria
18:57
Speaker 1: sort of undermining basic principles of capitalism and the allocation
19:01
Speaker 1: of capital in pursuit of profit. That's made America's economy
19:05
Speaker 1: the envy of the world. So there's a lot we
19:07
Speaker 1: need to do at home to build back our strength.
19:11
Speaker 1: At the same time, we need to confront China abroad.
19:14
Speaker 1: And what I laid out of that article you refer
19:16
Speaker 1: to and in the book Superpower and Peril is a
19:19
Speaker 1: plan to confront China where we strategically decouple in things
19:24
Speaker 1: like semiconductors of pharmaceuticals. It was shocking to me and
19:27
Speaker 1: I suspect many of your listeners that are pharmaceutical supply chain.
19:30
Speaker 1: During COVID, we saw our pharmaceutical supply chain dependent on China.
19:34
Speaker 1: That ninety percent of the chips that we need to
19:36
Speaker 1: make America run sophisticate chips are manufactured ninety miles from
19:40
Speaker 1: mainland China. So we've got a decouple and those strategic
19:43
Speaker 1: day Repeat that because I want to make sure everyone
19:45
Speaker 1: listening to it. Here's that point. There are a lot
19:47
Speaker 1: of important things you're saying, but the point on chips
19:49
Speaker 1: in particular is really important to repeat. That's, yeah, chips,
19:52
Speaker 1: microchips really are the you know, sort of the underlying
19:57
Speaker 1: technology that drives today's modern economy. Everything from the pickup
20:01
Speaker 1: truck that's in my driveway, which by the way, he
20:03
Speaker 1: couldn't buy for a year because of the delays and chips,
20:07
Speaker 1: to our most sophisticated weaponry, and we don't have really
20:12
Speaker 1: any domestic chip microchip manufacturing capability. Over the years, with
20:19
Speaker 1: sleepwalking on the part of policymakers on both parties, frankly,
20:23
Speaker 1: we now have a situation where ninety percent of the
20:27
Speaker 1: chips that America requires are manufactured in Taiwan, which is
20:32
Speaker 1: ninety miles from mainland China. So if you thought about strategically,
20:38
Speaker 1: you know, suffocating America. If you took control of those
20:42
Speaker 1: chip fabricators in Taiwan, you'd be able to strangle the
20:47
Speaker 1: world and put a huge strategic delay on the capacity
20:53
Speaker 1: to deploy new weapons and all sorts of things. And
20:56
Speaker 1: that's a strategic vulnerability that's almost unthinkable, and yet we've
21:00
Speaker 1: let it happen. Well, and I want you to pause
21:02
Speaker 1: for a second and reflect on what that means. You know,
21:05
Speaker 1: we talk a lot on Verdict about foreign policy. We
21:08
Speaker 1: talk a lot about China and Russia and what's going
21:11
Speaker 1: on in the world. But one of the reasons why
21:14
Speaker 1: Taiwan is so critical, one of the reasons why when
21:17
Speaker 1: I sit down in briefings with our Secretary Defense and
21:20
Speaker 1: our Joint chiefs, the number one scenario they're talking about
21:24
Speaker 1: inevitably is China invading Taiwan. Because the magnitude of the
21:30
Speaker 1: threat to America that there is very little, if anything,
21:34
Speaker 1: that is comparable. You look at that vulnerability on chips,
21:37
Speaker 1: Imagine for a second that China successfully invades Taiwan, takes
21:41
Speaker 1: it over. They have the capacity a just to cut
21:44
Speaker 1: off the most sophisticated chips that are being produced ninety
21:48
Speaker 1: percent of which are being produced in Taiwan. So if
21:50
Speaker 1: you imagine for a second, Okay, I guess America doesn't
21:53
Speaker 1: want any more cars, doesn't want any more trucks, doesn't
21:55
Speaker 1: want any more planes, doesn't want any more iPhones, doesn't
21:57
Speaker 1: want any more missiles, doesn't want any more weapons technology.
22:01
Speaker 1: China's ability to say you're done, We're cutting off your
22:05
Speaker 1: supply is massive. And by the way, that's only one scenario.
22:08
Speaker 1: Another scenario is that China takes those chips and implements
22:14
Speaker 1: within them surveillance technology, says okay, fine, you can have chips,
22:18
Speaker 1: but much as they've done with Huawei and Telecom, you
22:20
Speaker 1: can have chips, but the Chinese government is now going
22:23
Speaker 1: to surveil everything on your cell phone, everything on your car,
22:26
Speaker 1: everything on your truck, everything on your plane, everything on
22:28
Speaker 1: your missile and weapons technology. That vulnerability is massive, and
22:34
Speaker 1: it is something number one that a significant percentage of
22:38
Speaker 1: the American people don't appreciate. Number two that Joe Biden
22:41
Speaker 1: in this administration is doing zero to prevent, and number
22:45
Speaker 1: three that should be an acute focus of American foreign
22:49
Speaker 1: policy and economic policy to address and correct our vulnerability
22:54
Speaker 1: on this front. I want to ask you, Dave about TikTok,
22:57
Speaker 1: and not TikTok within it spasically as a company, but
23:01
Speaker 1: the bigger underlying issue of national security and the fact
23:05
Speaker 1: that we have this app that virtually half of America
23:10
Speaker 1: has on their phone, and there still has not been,
23:14
Speaker 1: in my opinion, of warning about this app from the
23:18
Speaker 1: top the head of the United States of America, and
23:21
Speaker 1: there's just deafening silence when what we know is basically
23:27
Speaker 1: a spying app on the American people. Before I get
23:30
Speaker 1: to that, I want to tell you about Patriot Mobile.
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24:25
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24:42
Speaker 1: Patriotmobile dot Com slash Verdict. Dave I mentioned TikTok a
24:46
Speaker 1: second ago. I think this is much bigger than TikTok.
24:49
Speaker 1: I think it's the fact that we have a device,
24:52
Speaker 1: or i should say, an app on your device that
24:54
Speaker 1: can look at virtually everything you're doing, collecting data. It's
24:58
Speaker 1: very clear that China is doing this, abusing this power.
25:03
Speaker 1: That's what it was created for. And we still have
25:06
Speaker 1: at White House that has not given a warning to
25:08
Speaker 1: the American people. This is something that China is using
25:11
Speaker 1: to spy on us. Why have they not been more
25:14
Speaker 1: proactive on that? In your opinion, Well, I think there's
25:16
Speaker 1: not a recognition of how important data is. Data. There's
25:21
Speaker 1: an article a couple of years ago in The Times
25:23
Speaker 1: that said data is the new oil. In fact, data
25:26
Speaker 1: is much more significant strategically even than oil was in
25:29
Speaker 1: the past, because data is the key to innovation, and
25:33
Speaker 1: data gives huge insight into both the strengths and vulnerabilities
25:38
Speaker 1: of an economy, of a military, of an intelligence service.
25:41
Speaker 1: So having access to data is a huge advantage. And
25:44
Speaker 1: once again, China has a plan for data dominance, and
25:49
Speaker 1: it really has an advantage because it's a techno authoritarian
25:52
Speaker 1: power and America doesn't have a plan. And so why
25:56
Speaker 1: isn't there a sufficient focus on TikTok? I don't think
25:59
Speaker 1: there's an adequate appreciation of how vulnerable we are by
26:05
Speaker 1: letting TikTok have access to our data. But China has
26:08
Speaker 1: access to our data in a variety of ways that
26:10
Speaker 1: have to be curtailed, and so what I argue for
26:13
Speaker 1: in the book is much more significant privacy restraints. Does
26:18
Speaker 1: it alarm you that if you buy a pair of
26:20
Speaker 1: sneakers online that for the next three months you get
26:24
Speaker 1: all sorts of advertisements in your feed for sneakers. While
26:28
Speaker 1: that just shows you that your data is being sold
26:31
Speaker 1: and you lose control of your data, and you may
26:33
Speaker 1: click the little box at the end of the purchase,
26:38
Speaker 1: but in the end, who knows what that means and
26:40
Speaker 1: where your data actually goes. Well, with China, it's much
26:44
Speaker 1: more significant. One of the things I cite here is
26:46
Speaker 1: a case where our intelligence services identified that China was
26:50
Speaker 1: pulling the fitbit data of our troops in Afghanistan to
26:53
Speaker 1: be able to monitor what was happening there. It's a
26:56
Speaker 1: huge strategic advantage from an intelligence perspective, and it has
27:00
Speaker 1: to be stopped, and so I think understanding the significance
27:03
Speaker 1: of it leads to some obvious requirements to restrict and stop.
27:08
Speaker 1: The other thing is that data drives innovation. So if
27:11
Speaker 1: you look at Operation Warp Speed, one of the reasons
27:14
Speaker 1: that we had such success in developing new vaccines was
27:17
Speaker 1: that the pharmac companies were able to share data, and
27:21
Speaker 1: the Chinese don't share data at all. The Wuhan lab
27:24
Speaker 1: is a perfect example of why we couldn't get to
27:26
Speaker 1: the bottom of what happened with COVID because there was
27:28
Speaker 1: no sharing. So we've got to have a strategy to
27:31
Speaker 1: push back on China, control our data, block China from
27:36
Speaker 1: getting access to our data, and leveraging our data for innovation. Well,
27:40
Speaker 1: and Ben, I often think art imitates life. As you know,
27:43
Speaker 1: I'm a movie buff and I watch all sorts of
27:46
Speaker 1: stupid series on TV because I download them on my
27:49
Speaker 1: iPad and every time I'm on an airplane, I watched
27:51
Speaker 1: the series. One series i'm a fan of is the
27:54
Speaker 1: HBO series Westworld. I don't know if you happen to
27:56
Speaker 1: have seen it, but it's a sci fi series where
27:59
Speaker 1: part of the premise, so you have these very lifelike
28:01
Speaker 1: robots who you learn as you get into the later seasons,
28:05
Speaker 1: are designed to collect constant data about people and develop
28:10
Speaker 1: models to know what Ben Ferguson would do if faced
28:14
Speaker 1: with every choice in life. And once they have that data,
28:18
Speaker 1: they essentially know how to control you. They know everything,
28:20
Speaker 1: they know who you are. They can literally predict the future. Now,
28:24
Speaker 1: I don't think HBO is necessarily nostrodamis, but it does
28:28
Speaker 1: underscore the power of data, and right now our federal
28:36
Speaker 1: government is not It's not even that we're losing this battle.
28:40
Speaker 1: We're not even engaged in this battle. It is a
28:43
Speaker 1: one sided fight. And so Dave, let me ask you this,
28:47
Speaker 1: in your judgment, what is China's objective, what are they
28:53
Speaker 1: trying to accomplish, and what are their principal tools for
28:58
Speaker 1: accomplishing it. I think China is essentially trying to create
29:04
Speaker 1: techno authoritarian dominance. In other words, they're trying to ensure
29:08
Speaker 1: that their economy is the dominant technological force in the world.
29:15
Speaker 1: So that's from a capability perspective, and that obviously is
29:19
Speaker 1: able to ensure a very lethal military, and they're also
29:25
Speaker 1: pursuing a set of foreign policy objectives that will ensure
29:29
Speaker 1: that China really displaces America is the global superpower. Now.
29:33
Speaker 1: I think the evidence that that was the objective would
29:37
Speaker 1: have been a little less certain in the twenty twelve
29:40
Speaker 1: twenty thirteen fourteen timeframe, But with the rise of President
29:44
Speaker 1: she it's become obvious that that's the goal. And one
29:49
Speaker 1: reason we know that is because he said it time
29:52
Speaker 1: and again in his speeches and his documents in terms
29:55
Speaker 1: of where he expects China to be as a global leader.
30:00
Speaker 1: But more than that, we see evidence just in the
30:02
Speaker 1: in the in the recent weeks where China has done
30:06
Speaker 1: a brilliant job of advancing its interest in Central America,
30:10
Speaker 1: South America, in the Middle East, and when there's a
30:13
Speaker 1: void in leadership, when people feel uncertain that they can
30:17
Speaker 1: count on America. The Middle East is a great example
30:20
Speaker 1: of Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is one of our tightest allies,
30:24
Speaker 1: has lots of reasons to object to the rise of Iran,
30:28
Speaker 1: and yet under President Biden, there's been an opening, an
30:32
Speaker 1: opening that the Chinese have deftly exploited and is really displacing.
30:37
Speaker 1: America is the critical superpower in the Middle East. So
30:41
Speaker 1: the objective is world dominance in displacing the United States
30:44
Speaker 1: and doing so with techno authoritarian capability. Well and a
30:48
Speaker 1: week American president is profoundly dangerous. It's profoundly dangerous because
30:52
Speaker 1: our enemies step into the void. It's profoundly dangerous because
30:56
Speaker 1: our allies are afraid to rely on us and they
30:59
Speaker 1: move into that void as well, that they end up
31:02
Speaker 1: being drawn into the spheres of influence of our enemies.
31:05
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this Dave as a follow up.
31:08
Speaker 1: As you look at it, what are the strengths and
31:12
Speaker 1: strengths and weaknesses China has in this battle, and even
31:16
Speaker 1: more importantly, what are the strengths and weaknesses America has
31:20
Speaker 1: and how do we win? How do we beat China
31:24
Speaker 1: and stop them from achieving their goal of world dominance. Well,
31:28
Speaker 1: the strengths that the Chinese have is also its weakness
31:32
Speaker 1: in the sense that it's a top down, state driven economy,
31:38
Speaker 1: the techno authoritarian. What I mean by that is they've
31:41
Speaker 1: got a clear strategy and economic strategy to dominate in
31:45
Speaker 1: these key technologies. There used to be this notion when
31:48
Speaker 1: I served in the government, of dual use technologies being
31:52
Speaker 1: something we had to monitor carefully. In essence, today there's
31:56
Speaker 1: a convergence artificial intelligence, quantum science, robotics, satellites. They are
32:01
Speaker 1: interchangeably the core of national security and economic vitality. The
32:06
Speaker 1: Chinese recognize that, and they have a very focused strategy
32:10
Speaker 1: to be the dominant player in all those technologies. And
32:13
Speaker 1: the fact that they have a state controlled economy they
32:17
Speaker 1: can drive the allocation of capital and the focus on
32:20
Speaker 1: those areas through their state owned enterprises. So how do
32:23
Speaker 1: we beat them? And now how do we beat them? Well,
32:25
Speaker 1: we beat them because our economy and their economy, Because
32:30
Speaker 1: if that's created all sorts of weaknesses. We can beat
32:32
Speaker 1: them because our economy is far more agile, far more entrepreneurial.
32:37
Speaker 1: But we're failing at the moment. We're at investing in
32:41
Speaker 1: basic R and D. We're failing at educating our people
32:45
Speaker 1: to be able to compete in these new areas. Semiconduction
32:48
Speaker 1: is a great example. You don't have to have a
32:50
Speaker 1: college degree to fill some of these key technical jobs,
32:53
Speaker 1: but you do have to have technical training, and we're
32:56
Speaker 1: deeply short in the requirements. And and this is what
33:01
Speaker 1: I argue in the books Superpower and Peril. We need
33:04
Speaker 1: to have the government, and we need to do this
33:06
Speaker 1: with care. But we need to have the government create incentives,
33:10
Speaker 1: tax rebates, and potentially side by side investing with the
33:13
Speaker 1: private sector to drive capital into those areas are going
33:17
Speaker 1: to be most critical for our national security, like artificial
33:20
Speaker 1: intelligence as an example. And we need to do that
33:22
Speaker 1: in a way that the government doesn't play any role
33:24
Speaker 1: in picking companies or anything like that. We can't we
33:28
Speaker 1: can't have a China model, and we can't have industrial
33:31
Speaker 1: policy like the Biden administrations put in place. We have
33:33
Speaker 1: to have markets driven ways to drive private capital to
33:37
Speaker 1: these technologies. That matter so much for the future, and
33:40
Speaker 1: with those kinds of things in place, we can win
33:44
Speaker 1: this game. But right now we're on our back foot
33:46
Speaker 1: and we're losing. I want to ask you a final question,
33:49
Speaker 1: and this is about what happens when technology teams up
33:54
Speaker 1: with a country that desperately needs a technology. Obviously, I'm
33:58
Speaker 1: talking about China and Russia, and we see how big
34:02
Speaker 1: of an impact technology can have, even on killing innocent
34:06
Speaker 1: people in Ukraine, drones coming in other type of technology
34:11
Speaker 1: that Russia just doesn't have. This alliance between these two
34:15
Speaker 1: countries are so dangerous for that reason, in my opinion,
34:19
Speaker 1: I want to get your take on that. And before
34:20
Speaker 1: I do that, I want to tell you about our
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Speaker 1: thirty five percent off. Dave, I want you to answer
35:26
Speaker 1: that question about the technology, and you have a country
35:30
Speaker 1: country that has a ton of it. You have a
35:31
Speaker 1: country that has hardly any of it and is decades behind.
35:35
Speaker 1: When you put those two together right now, and this
35:38
Speaker 1: is happening in real time, they both bring something the table.
35:42
Speaker 1: One needs energy that's something Russia does have, and the
35:45
Speaker 1: other needs to as technology and that's something that Russia
35:47
Speaker 1: needs well. I think that alliance is poses real challenges
35:52
Speaker 1: and risks to the United States, but I think our
35:55
Speaker 1: path is clear. The problem is we're just not following it.
35:57
Speaker 1: And let me elaborate on that for a minute. Defense
36:00
Speaker 1: spending needs to do two things at the same time,
36:03
Speaker 1: and we shouldn't pay too much attention to those who
36:06
Speaker 1: are arguing one or the other. We need to invest
36:08
Speaker 1: in existing platforms because that's core to our military capability
36:12
Speaker 1: to fight a land war or a sea battle in
36:16
Speaker 1: the South China Sea, or to support the Ukrainians in
36:20
Speaker 1: their fight against Russia. But we also need to invest
36:23
Speaker 1: in the next generation in a way that's going to
36:25
Speaker 1: make sure that we are out in front of where
36:28
Speaker 1: the Chinese are, and the Chinese have developed lots of
36:30
Speaker 1: capabilities that really threaten us in the South China Sea
36:33
Speaker 1: and are going to threaten us in anything we do
36:36
Speaker 1: militarily around the world. So we've got to have and
36:39
Speaker 1: that's not happening under Joe Biden right now. The spending
36:41
Speaker 1: is not even keeping up with inflation, and right now
36:44
Speaker 1: we have leadership that's not able to do those two
36:46
Speaker 1: things at the same time. The second thing we need
36:48
Speaker 1: to do, and just to refer to your point on energy,
36:52
Speaker 1: the Biden administration has taken us absolutely the wrong direction.
36:55
Speaker 1: I mean I live in Pennsylvania, which has the fourth
36:58
Speaker 1: largest natural gas reserve in the world. Of Pennsylvania, ware
37:01
Speaker 1: Country would be fourth. And the Biden administration is essentially
37:04
Speaker 1: in one fell swoop. Made us less secure because we've
37:08
Speaker 1: become an energy importer, has made us less rich because
37:13
Speaker 1: it's hurt us economically, and has hurt the environment because
37:16
Speaker 1: natural gas out of Pennsylvania is much cleaner than the
37:18
Speaker 1: imports we have today. And that's a key building block
37:21
Speaker 1: of national security, and we've screwed it up. And that
37:24
Speaker 1: again has created the opportunity for a partnership between Russia
37:29
Speaker 1: and China, which poses real risk. Well, and let me
37:32
Speaker 1: echo a couple of things Dave just said. Number one,
37:35
Speaker 1: I believe America cannon will prevail against China. I think
37:38
Speaker 1: we have enormous assets, the most important of which is freedom.
37:42
Speaker 1: Free enterprise is a much stronger economic system than communism.
37:47
Speaker 1: During the Cold War, the Soviet Union, and by the way,
37:50
Speaker 1: lots of Democrats and left wing academics said, oh, the
37:53
Speaker 1: Soviet Union was unbeatable. Jimmy Carter wind that we couldn't compete,
37:57
Speaker 1: and the American free enterprise system was so powerful. But
38:01
Speaker 1: what we needed was American leadership. We needed the clarity
38:04
Speaker 1: that we saw during the Reagan administration to call them
38:08
Speaker 1: out for who they are. When Reagan described the Soviet
38:11
Speaker 1: Union as the evil Empire. When he was asked what's
38:15
Speaker 1: your strategy in the Cold War, he said, it's very simple.
38:17
Speaker 1: We win, they lose. When he said Marxism, Leninism will
38:21
Speaker 1: end up on the ash heap of history. When he said,
38:23
Speaker 1: mister Gorbachev, tear down this wall. That clarity and strength
38:27
Speaker 1: of leadership, combined with unleashing the American economic engine, bankrupted
38:33
Speaker 1: the Soviet Union and won the Cold War without firing
38:36
Speaker 1: a shot. I believe we need to replicate the strategy
38:38
Speaker 1: of the Cold War for dealing with China. I think
38:41
Speaker 1: Dave is one of the most serious thinkers in the
38:44
Speaker 1: country and doing so, and I'm optimistic. Look, Joe Biden
38:47
Speaker 1: is not going to do it. The Democrats are not
38:48
Speaker 1: going to do it. But the American people are frustrated
38:51
Speaker 1: with the path they're on. They're going to change. As
38:53
Speaker 1: we're wrapping up the band, I'm going to take a
38:55
Speaker 1: moment of personal privilege and just Victory lap for a moment.
38:59
Speaker 1: We started this podcast by Victory Lapping Stanford Law School,
39:03
Speaker 1: and any moment of sanity and free speech breaking out
39:06
Speaker 1: on one of our elite law schools, I'm going to
39:08
Speaker 1: victory lap on the other end now and just point
39:11
Speaker 1: out I'm sitting there hanging out with two jocks. Listen,
39:17
Speaker 1: and I want to do a shout out to all
39:19
Speaker 1: of our listeners who are geeks and nerds. Maybe you're
39:22
Speaker 1: a theater kid. Look Ben, for all his awe shucks
39:27
Speaker 1: down to earth nature was a varsity tennis player at
39:30
Speaker 1: Ole Miss and Dave was captain of the damn wrestling
39:34
Speaker 1: team at West Point. And by the way, as I'm
39:38
Speaker 1: campaigning with him across Pennsylvania, you didn't tell me initially
39:40
Speaker 1: he was all state in football because that didn't even
39:42
Speaker 1: merit mentioning. It didn't make the list. Me. I was
39:47
Speaker 1: on the debate team. So let's be clear, both Ben
39:50
Speaker 1: and Dave in high school or college would have stuffed
39:52
Speaker 1: me in the locker. And here we are hanging out
39:55
Speaker 1: on the podcast fighting to save America. So I'm just
39:58
Speaker 1: gonna revel for a moment of it and say to
40:00
Speaker 1: every one of you who wasn't captain of the wrestling
40:03
Speaker 1: team at West Point, there's hope for you. There's hope
40:06
Speaker 1: for me, and there's hope for America. I love it.
40:10
Speaker 1: I love it. Grab Dave's new book has Superpower in
40:13
Speaker 1: Peril of Battle Plan to Renew America. You can grab
40:17
Speaker 1: it on Amazon or wherever you get your books. I
40:19
Speaker 1: know you're on a book tour as well. If people
40:22
Speaker 1: want to see where you're headed or where you're going.
40:24
Speaker 1: Is that schedule out there so people can find it. Yes,
40:26
Speaker 1: it's out there on Dave mccormickbook dot com. Dave mccormickbook
40:31
Speaker 1: dot com. Dave, it was a pleasure to have you
40:32
Speaker 1: on Verdict. We've got a lot of news and maybe breaking.
40:36
Speaker 1: Don't worry this week. We will have you covered the
40:38
Speaker 1: center and I will be back here with you in
40:40
Speaker 1: a couple of days. And make sure you hit that
40:42
Speaker 1: share button, subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss
40:44
Speaker 1: an episode, and write us to five star reviews so
40:47
Speaker 1: we can meet reach new listeners. We'll see it back
40:49
Speaker 1: here in a couple of days.