Latest / The Lila Rose Show / E67: How a Widowed Mother of 10 Does It

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E67: How a Widowed Mother of 10 Does It · The Lila Rose Show

0:00
I remember going to pick my son up at this little neighborhood
0:03
Christian preschool that he went to.
0:04
His teacher said to me, you know, how was your day?
0:07
I told her my husband was diagnosed with cancer.
0:10
And she said to me, you must be really worried.
0:14
Her saying to me that I must worry.
0:16
I thought, wait a minute. Like, must I, do I really need
0:19
to worry today? And what I told her is, you
0:22
know, I've decided I'm going to wait to worry.
0:25
And that was sort of my mantra all the way through.
0:32
Hey guys, welcome back to the Lila Rose Podcast.
0:36
Today we are going to be talking about grief and the loss of
0:40
loved ones and the story of an amazing person, Kendra Tierney,
0:45
who's a mother of ten and OG and original mommy Blogger and the
0:49
founder of a great business and ministry called Catholic All
0:53
Year. Kendra's going to share about
0:56
the beautiful love story of her and her husband, the loss of her
1:00
husband, and how she navigated that with Faith and how that
1:04
impacted her and her ten kids, one of whom is only now four
1:09
years old. I think you're going to be
1:11
inspired by this episode. I went into it thinking, OK,
1:14
this is going to be there's going to be some tears here, but
1:17
I thought there was a lot more peace, great advice and joy than
1:20
anything else. I think you're going to enjoy
1:22
this episode. As always, don't forget to like
1:25
the podcast. If you're on YouTube, like the
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2:32
Kendra, thanks so much for joining the podcast.
2:34
I'm so happy to be here. I've been wanting to do this for
2:36
a few months now, so I'm glad it's working out.
2:40
And you're someone that I admire, and I know a lot of
2:42
people who admire your work. You've done a lot of work in the
2:46
liturgical living space. And so let's start there with
2:48
just your background with your work.
2:51
And then most importantly, you're the mother of ten and you
2:55
are also, you've had an amazing marriage.
2:57
So we're going to get into that and so much more.
3:00
So let's start with people who may not be familiar with your
3:02
work. Tell us more about Kendra.
3:04
Yeah, so Catholic all year is is the website and my sort of
3:10
apostolate. It started off as a mommy blog
3:13
back when those were that those were all the rage.
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And and yeah, the idea behind Catholic all year is celebrating
3:24
the Catholic feast days in the home and bringing the days on
3:28
the liturgical calendar into our home in order to learn the, you
3:33
know, doctrine, the lives of the Saints, the sort of rhythm of
3:36
the church here, which is all sort of baked right into the
3:38
liturgical calendar, sort of a framework for how to learn and
3:41
celebrate. And, you know, the and all the
3:44
different days of recommended, you know, penance and
3:48
celebration that they go throughout the year.
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So that is something that I discovered, you know, with my
3:54
family and just wanted to share with other people.
3:56
So now it's, there are books, the Catholic or compendium is
4:00
the sort of starter one on, on liturgical living in the home
4:04
for me. And yeah, and now we also have
4:08
things like subscription boxes, membership, lots of products
4:12
from us and other Catholic makers that can help you bring
4:16
the Catholic faith into your home.
4:18
And you've been doing that while having ten children.
4:20
But yes, how long have you? When did you first start doing
4:23
the mommy blogging thing which has turned into the full blown
4:26
ministry you have now? I think it was 2010, maybe an
4:32
OG. Yeah.
4:35
Wow. And yeah, when my oldest son,
4:39
who's 21 now, was was little, he was just one of those kids who
4:42
asked a lot of questions. And I was raised Catholic, but
4:46
not but without any of these sort of liturgical living in the
4:48
home traditions. And so as he's asking me these
4:51
questions, I'd have to say I don't know, but I'll find out.
4:55
And so I started reading books and I started listening to
4:58
podcasts and, and, and researching sort of the history
5:03
and the, the answers to his questions.
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And I realized there's this whole world in the Catholic
5:08
Church of, of these crazy sort of macabre patron Saints of
5:13
things and, and recipes that are associated with these days And,
5:17
and all these things that that I had no idea even existed.
5:21
And, and it's been just in our home, a really fun way to, you
5:27
know, to incorporate these, these church traditions and
5:30
catechism and build that strong family culture and, and Catholic
5:36
identity. And you know that that word
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identity is so loaded now, but you want your kids to feel like
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they're part of something. And what I want them to feel
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part of is, is their faith, is, is the Christian Church.
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And, and so having these crazy traditions and, you know, and,
5:55
and associated activities and foods, I think really helps with
5:59
that. So how long when did you when
6:02
did you first meet your husband? I want to start from the
6:04
beginning and then we're going to go through marriage.
6:07
And then also, I know you've recently lost your beloved
6:10
husband. So I want to get into that
6:11
experience and just how that has all impacted your work and your
6:14
family. So we met in 2001.
6:17
We were he, we were both volunteering for the parish
6:21
youth group, for the in for the youth group that I attended when
6:25
I was in high school and I was back from college.
6:28
So my parents said I should go and volunteer at the youth group
6:31
meet A nice boy and I go to the to the meeting for potential
6:37
volunteers and I see this guy standing on the steps and he's
6:42
tall and he's skinny and he's wearing what the Marines call
6:45
BCGS for birth control glasses. These are really thick square
6:50
tortoise shell glasses. But you found that very
6:54
attractive? And sounds like I look like
6:55
that's it. That's the.
6:58
But yeah. So we got to know each other,
7:01
but I mean, very quickly. We were engaged within 10 weeks
7:04
of the first time we met. We were 10 weeks. 10 weeks,
7:08
yeah. Engaged within 10 weeks.
7:10
Yeah. So how did when did you is feel
7:14
in your heart? This is the one?
7:15
I mean, honestly, I, you know, we don't believe in the concept
7:22
of soul AIDS, but there was just something about him.
7:26
The first time I saw him, I was like, yeah, that that that guy
7:30
and I just sort of made a point of getting in his way until.
7:35
What does that look like? Like, literally, if he needed to
7:39
go into a room, I would just, like, happen to be standing in
7:44
his way and he would have to talk to me.
7:45
And he had a policy of not dating the women who were
7:51
volunteering at the youth group because he wanted to, you know,
7:55
focus on the kids and the gospel.
7:59
But and also, you know, every at that age, we were, you know,
8:04
all, all in our 20s. And so everybody's looking for
8:07
dates to weddings. And he didn't want to be
8:09
everybody's date to weddings. But, yeah, so he ended up asking
8:15
me out. Oh, I had a fake pumpkin carving
8:18
party. A.
8:19
Fake one. Yeah, well, I mean, it turned
8:21
into a real one, but I put standing there talking to him
8:24
aftermath and I said you should come over.
8:27
I'm having a party. And I wasn't having a party.
8:31
And then I said I'm having a pumpkin carving party.
8:34
And that was totally spontaneous, which isn't a thing
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people, you know, 20 somethings really do.
8:40
And plus, in Southern California, this was the
8:43
beginning of October. And if you carve your pumpkin
8:46
early, they like rot and melt into this like weird gooey mess.
8:51
So anyway I had my fake pumpkin carving party and he came over
8:56
and then I think. It's just a dating.
8:58
No, no, I had other. I like, guess what?
9:00
I managed to get my squad to come with me and act like this
9:04
has been a planned thing. Oh, and I invited my parents too
9:06
because that's how cool I am and continue to be.
9:10
And then much later on, my dad, who is, you know, I, I said to
9:19
my dad, oh, you know, Jim, you met him at my pumpkin carving
9:22
party. And my dad said to me, I kind of
9:24
got the feeling that was the whole point of that party.
9:26
It's. Like, Oh no.
9:29
It's not subtle, but anyway, but it all worked out.
9:32
He ended up, he proposed to me on the steps of the church
9:36
again, he gave. And he was a Marine Corps
9:38
officer at the time in San Diego.
9:41
And he gave me an ammo can. And I had to, fortunately, I
9:46
knew how to open it. And there was a ring box in
9:50
there. And.
9:51
Yeah. And he proposed and his family
9:52
was in town and he had asked my dad and all of that.
9:57
And then, yeah. So we got married about nine
9:59
months later. So we were married inside of a
10:02
year of the first time we laid eyes on each other.
10:06
And it sounds like he it wasn't just you inviting him to the
10:09
pumpkin carving party, but he within 10 weeks was ready to get
10:13
down on one knee. Yeah.
10:14
And when did you know first that he liked you well, or loved you
10:18
he? Went right to luck.
10:20
He invited me to the Marine Corps Ball, which I mean, that's
10:25
an impressive event to to attend.
10:28
He looked very dashing. And it was just, I think
10:34
especially the environment of he, he was an officer at Marine
10:38
Corps boot camp. And so to show up there and see
10:42
this sort of hierarchy and the deference and he was the, you
10:50
know, the first Sergeant is yelling at the recruits, you're
10:53
going to embarrass us in front of Tyranny's girlfriend.
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So it was it, you know, it all just made him seem like, you
11:06
know, just this very impressive, impressive figure.
11:10
And he was also just sweet and clearly a good guy.
11:13
And he, he was discerning, well, when I first met him, he was
11:19
discerning going to seminary and coming back to the Marine Corps
11:23
as a chaplain. That did not last long.
11:27
But he did the he did the flip open the Bible and close your
11:32
eyes and and touch it thing. And it was a verse from Sirach
11:34
that says happy the husband of a Good Wife.
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Wow. So that was good.
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And also I'm glad we were Catholic because Sirach isn't in
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all Bible. I was just.
11:43
Going to say where would I be? Wow.
11:46
Meant to be. Yeah, but but it, it, it went,
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it went quickly. But you know, he, he's got a
11:56
really great family that I immediately got along with.
11:59
Well, he gets a lot, he got along with my family.
12:01
And so it didn't, it didn't feel like it was a particularly, you
12:07
know, it wasn't a didn't feel like a particularly risky
12:10
decision, even though it did, I guess seems fast when you say
12:15
it. So what day?
12:17
What was your month and date for your wedding?
12:19
It was August. No.
12:23
Yeah, it was August 11th of so of 2001.
12:30
Wow. I'm married.
12:30
Yeah. So and then how many years
12:32
married? So he passed away in July of of
12:37
2022, so just before our 21st anniversary.
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I'm doing the math right. Wow.
12:43
Yeah. So tell me about it's just
12:46
starting your family life together.
12:47
You went on to have 10 children together and he also would go on
12:51
to battle cancer. Right.
12:54
Yeah. So we were both raised Catholic,
12:57
but you know, like I said before, I I not in a way really
13:03
either one of us, not in a way where we really had a great, you
13:08
know, formation in in what we believed.
13:11
He he had sort of a deep natural sort of sense of right and
13:15
wrong. That was helpful to me because I
13:18
was kind of a crazy 20 something and it's still surprising to me
13:23
that that that all worked. But but yeah, the first I had
13:30
ever heard of not contracepting within marriage was the optional
13:37
NFP sort of seminar that was part of our marriage prep when,
13:43
when we were preparing for marriage in San Diego.
13:47
And we listened to that contraception, Why not tape in
13:51
his car in his parking garage and sort of looked at each other
13:57
like, wow, this seems, you know, this seems pretty extreme this
14:03
because we had decided we want to have a lot of kids and four
14:06
was the biggest number of kids either one of us can imagine
14:09
having. I have one sister, he has sister
14:11
and a brother. So we decided, all right, we're
14:14
going to have 4 kids and then we listen to this tape and we
14:19
decide, all right, well, we don't think as crazy as it
14:24
seems, we don't think that we can claim to know better than
14:30
the Catholic Church on this. So we better just take that leap
14:36
of faith and, and honestly, I look back and you know, we all
14:42
have those moments of Fiat in our life, right where we have
14:45
where, where God asks us like, will you correspond to this
14:50
grace that I want to give you? And, and as uncatechized as I
14:56
was as, as not formed as I was. It was that moment of, of God
15:01
saying to me here, will you trust me in this?
15:05
And, and we did and, and after we got married, you know, I, I
15:11
still, we learned about NFP and, and I was approaching it with
15:15
sort of a very contraceptive mindset, right?
15:18
Like, all right, fine, we won't use artificial contraception,
15:21
but we're still going to have our four kids and we're going to
15:23
wait until he is done with Business School.
15:26
And well, we were terrible at NFP and I got pregnant almost
15:30
immediately. And if you're going to be bad at
15:32
something, that's a great thing to be bad at.
15:35
And you know, over the course of our marriage, we really decided
15:39
there was a point where where we did figure it out after he was
15:42
first diagnosed. When was that?
15:44
So he was diagnosed 3 days before I was.
15:49
I found out I was pregnant with Gus who is about to turn 16 so
15:59
that that's our fourth child. So he was diagnosed with
16:03
Melanoma 3 days later, I found out I was pregnant with my 4:00
16:07
and then I found out I was pregnant with my 5th, you know,
16:19
very close on after having after having guests along came Anita.
16:23
And then we finally figured out NFP and we're able to
16:26
successfully practice it and decided that because, you know,
16:31
Jim was understandably feeling like the responsible thing to do
16:36
would, would be to focus on, you know, his treatments.
16:40
So we did successfully practice NFP for about a year and, and I
16:48
just hated it. I hated it so much.
16:50
And I, I really felt like I had a strong preference for us just
16:59
being completely open to life and open to the number of
17:04
children that that would just come to us naturally.
17:09
And it took, it took that year, you know, it took months for,
17:16
for Jim to sort of come around to see it that way also.
17:19
But but I'm so grateful for for our family and you know, I look
17:26
at Gus or Anita and I'm so glad that that's not the end of our
17:30
family, even though, you know, I tell people now like I'm sort of
17:35
this cautionary tale now, right? I'm I'm the reason you don't
17:38
have a big family because you could end up a single mom of 10
17:41
children. But they, you know, they, they
17:46
have been such a comfort and such a joy and especially, you
17:54
know, throughout Jim's illness. And then, you know, and then
17:58
also, since it's so it's hard to, to devolve into, into that
18:05
grief, into that focus on yourself when there are so many
18:09
people around who not only like, who truly understand what you're
18:15
going through in a way that nobody outside your immediate
18:18
family could. And so this is something that
18:20
we've been through together, that we are, you know, are still
18:24
working through together. And I, I guess, you know, we're,
18:30
we're, we're getting ahead of we, you know, we haven't talked
18:33
about the details of, you know, of his illness and stuff yet.
18:37
But just the way that, that my older kids have stepped up, the
18:40
way that the younger kids, you know, the little ones still have
18:44
so much joy in life in, you know, and I think a way that I
18:51
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checkout for 20% off your order. What was it like finding out
19:41
that Jim had Melanoma? Yeah, so if.
19:46
You're about to be pregnant with your 4th.
19:48
Yeah, So what sticks in my mind the most?
19:53
So his his diagnosis was pretty serious right from the
19:59
beginning. He had he had a really big mold
20:01
that was originally misdiagnosed once and and then later when he
20:06
finally did get it biopsied, it came back immediately as it, you
20:10
know, as Melanoma and as metastatic Melanoma.
20:15
So it had already spread and the.
20:18
Statistics for that aren't great.
20:20
It's a it's, it's a less than 50% five year survival rate for,
20:26
for that diagnosis. So immediately it was something
20:29
that you had to sort of take seriously.
20:33
But I remember going to pick my, my son up at his at this little
20:38
neighborhood Christian preschool that he went to a couple days a
20:42
week. His his teacher said to him,
20:45
said to me, you know, how was your day?
20:47
And again with my again with my awkwardness, I told her what had
20:52
happened in my day, somebody that I don't didn't particularly
20:55
know well, but I said, you know, my husband was diagnosed with
20:58
cancer. And she said to me, you must be
21:01
really worried. And I guess my, you know, little
21:06
contrary spirit that or you know, her saying to me that I
21:11
must worry. I thought, wait a minute, like,
21:15
must I like do how are things right now?
21:18
If I look at if I look at my husband, he's seems perfectly
21:22
healthy right now. He has no symptoms of of illness
21:28
other than just us knowing from this piece of paper that you
21:32
know, that that he has this. My kids are are great.
21:36
We're comfortable financially. We have a roof overhead.
21:39
We have food to eat. Do I really need to worry today?
21:44
And, and so I told what I told her is, you know, I've decided
21:48
I'm going to wait to worry. And, and that was sort of my
21:53
mantra all the way through. Is that like, am I, are we OK
21:56
today? And, and really we were.
22:00
And so I wasn't quite ready to commit to the Padre Pio, you
22:05
know, pray, hope, don't worry. I wasn't sure I could manage
22:09
that, but I could wait. I could wait to worry.
22:11
And and so that's what I did all the way throughout his, his
22:16
illness, as he, you know, he went through treatment at at the
22:22
beginning and surgery and it appeared that he was in
22:26
remission for for 10 years. And and then he was it, you
22:33
know, it was rediscovered. So it, it, it means that likely
22:37
it was just there the whole time still, but it spread eventually
22:41
to his lungs and then to his brain.
22:44
And but throughout, you know, throughout the surgeries,
22:51
hospitalizations, eventually he was having seizures.
22:56
He was unable to drive. He, you know, I, he wasn't able
23:03
to, to do buttons and things and it was just this really slow
23:07
sort of progression of, of him requiring more help.
23:12
But but really, each day it didn't seem like that was the
23:17
day that we needed to worry because things were still OK
23:21
and, and that we had so many people praying for us.
23:27
And, and I believe so strongly in the power of intercessory
23:33
prayer, you know, you know, to keep despair at Bay.
23:37
And I just felt like through that whole, through the whole
23:40
process that that somehow it was going to be OK.
23:44
Either he was going to be healed, he was going to continue
23:47
living with with this as he had been for so much longer than
23:51
than any of the doctors thought that he ever would, or he
23:57
wouldn't survive. And and I had to trust that
24:01
somehow we would be OK even even if that happened.
24:08
During that time, what about your kids?
24:10
I mean, how did you and when did you communicate with them?
24:14
And they're having more kids, obviously over the period of
24:17
multiple years. And how did that spirit, your
24:20
spirit affect them that this is going to be OK?
24:24
It's we're going to delay the worry.
24:27
Yeah, so we were open with the kids, you know, most of them
24:32
were born, you know, while as Jim was already facing already
24:39
had cancer. So it was something that they
24:42
were sort of always aware of. But he was getting up and going
24:46
to work everyday. He was, you know, attending the
24:49
kids school events. He was helping them with
24:51
homework. And, and so even though we all
24:54
knew that, that this, you know, existed, it really wasn't
25:01
something that affected our, our day-to-day life until sort of
25:06
towards the end. And when he was diagnosed again,
25:11
because there was that whole, there was a whole 10 year period
25:13
where it seemed like he's like he had beat this.
25:17
And it was something that was in the past.
25:20
And, and so then we were faced with another sort of crossroads
25:26
on do we want to continue to be open to life?
25:28
Do we want to continue to be open to to having more kids?
25:33
How many kids at that? So I guess at that point we had
25:36
nine kids and I remember being in the car on the way to school
25:44
with with my kids. And because, you know, in a big
25:48
family, the the kids do have a lot of responsibility for their
25:51
younger brothers and sisters. And so my was still
25:56
homeschooling all the younger ones and my 3 oldest were we're
26:00
going to Saint Monica Academy. And I remember saying to them,
26:05
you know, we know that the dads cancer is back.
26:10
We don't know how that's going to go.
26:12
This is a, you know, more serious diagnosis than he had
26:16
before. And I just wanted to talk to the
26:22
to the oldest kids and sort of sound them out like how would
26:26
they feel if we continued to be open to life if I ended up, you
26:31
know, pregnant and and feeling sick at the same time that that
26:36
Jim was feeling sick. And I knew my daughter, who's
26:42
our second oldest. I knew I knew she would be on
26:44
board with it. And I thought that maybe my
26:46
third son wouldn't really care either way.
26:50
But my oldest son is really somebody who, you know, he's
26:53
very pragmatic. He's he's in he's in engineering
26:57
school now. He's in aerospace engineering.
27:00
So he just has that very, you know, sort of pragmatic mindset.
27:04
And so I'm expecting him to like, talk about pros and cons.
27:08
And so he would have been like 15.
27:11
What he said to me is I like babies.
27:16
And that was it. It wasn't, it wasn't this big
27:19
like weighing the like, the like benefits and, and, and hardships
27:26
of a new baby. It's that like this is, you
27:30
know, a person who would be in his life.
27:32
And it was just so it was so obvious to him, like how to
27:37
value that. And so then we, we ended up with
27:41
little Barbara, our, our caboose.
27:44
And how old is she now? So she's 4 now.
27:47
She was 2 when when Jim passed away.
27:50
And, and then her the, the next brother up, the next one up from
27:57
her is George. And he, he's 5 now.
28:00
But, you know, the two of them, Jim was was pretty sick for for,
28:05
you know, most of the time they are around here, but they really
28:09
do have fond memories of him. And one of the, you know, as he
28:15
got less able to, you know, run around in the yard with them and
28:20
you know, things like that. He he would read them books.
28:24
He would sit on the couch and read them books.
28:26
And so my especially little Barbara has this, she really
28:32
associates listening to stories with with her dad and that he
28:36
especially they love the Richard scary books.
28:39
And so they would sit on the couch and he had most of them
28:43
memorized because he he was sort of losing vision and but, but he
28:49
could still read them because they read them so many times.
28:52
So when you found out the second time that the cancer was back
28:57
when, when did did worry ever kick in for you?
29:01
I would say that that I, I really still was able to, to
29:06
rely on, on hope and on that feeling that I couldn't see how
29:12
it possibly could be OK, but I could trust that somehow it
29:17
would be. And when Jim was diagnosed
29:20
again, I mean, that was really the overwhelming feeling for it.
29:24
And there were so many people praying for him and, you know,
29:29
all over the world. And I was really hopeful that
29:32
that he would beat it somehow. You know, as it got towards the
29:35
end, it seemed pretty clear that that he wasn't going to beat it
29:42
to me. I don't think he ever believed
29:44
that that he was going to die. And, you know, as young as he
29:49
did, I think he always thought he was, he was going to beat it.
29:52
We never had that conversation of he he did set up our
29:56
finances. He had a will he, you know, set
29:58
up a trust all all of those things, but as far as us, you
30:03
know, having that conversation of you know, if I die this that
30:07
the other we never had that conversation.
30:10
He did He did record before he had his first radiation brain
30:16
radiation treatments. There is there is some chance
30:20
that it can affect your cognitive abilities.
30:22
So he wanted to record a message for me and for each of the kids.
30:29
So I always knew that we had those.
30:31
He just, you know, put them in a Google Drive folder and I knew
30:34
they were there. And, and so I was pregnant with
30:40
Barbara when, when he recorded them.
30:44
So we didn't even know if it was a boy or a girl, but I knew they
30:49
were there and didn't, I didn't quite feel ready to watch them
30:53
until the, the anniversary of his death on July 9th this year.
30:58
We I sort of SAT the kids down and showed them on their own,
31:03
each of them. But but it was, yeah, it was
31:10
very comforting to to hear, you know, the advice he had for me
31:15
and, and the way that, you know, he was a big fan of the work
31:22
that I do. And he was really encouraging to
31:26
that, that I should, you know, try to stick with that which,
31:30
you know, as a single mom now it's, you know, I'm facing
31:36
decisions on how, you know, how to provide for my family.
31:39
Do I keep doing this or do I go get a more regular, regular
31:43
person job? And he was very encouraging that
31:48
I that I, you know, try to stick with this because he thinks that
31:52
it's with with Catholic all year.
31:55
And that was, you know, great to very encouraging to hear.
32:01
How did the how did it impact the kids to get those messages a
32:05
year after his passing? Yeah, so, you know, the kids
32:08
have really sort of different temperaments.
32:11
One of my daughter's was was more affected than than others
32:17
and she was one of the last to get tear him and we had to
32:19
hustle out the door to mass and she was she was a little
32:23
emotional about it all. But I, I think that I think it
32:27
was, it was overall good. And it's, it's nice that
32:30
they'll, you know, have access to those if they want to see
32:32
him. So he wasn't, it sounds like in
32:36
a sense he was ready to go and not he.
32:38
It was just such a man of faith and virtue.
32:41
I mean, I got to meet him just a couple times.
32:43
And my husband, I remember after meeting him, my husband Joe, who
32:46
is also has the military background, was just very
32:48
impressed. And he had this reputation of
32:50
just being a man of great virtue and holiness, but it sounds like
32:56
he was fighting it till the end. Yeah, no, he, he really was.
33:00
And he was a person who really who really had a goal of growing
33:07
in personal holiness. And he, he had, you know, this,
33:13
the plan of life that he, that he worked off of and all, and
33:17
these different, you know, spiritual sort of exercises he
33:22
would do every day. And, and that I think the Marine
33:25
Corps is part of that. And, you know, and his, and his
33:29
Catholic upbringing, but but really he, he had a, a deep and
33:36
authentic faith And he, and, and that was the way he lived his
33:40
life. And that's the way he went
33:43
through his battle with cancer And, and it's the way he died.
33:49
And there's so much consolation for for his family in that.
33:58
And, you know, as much as I wish every day that he were still
34:04
with me, there's some part of me that that that doesn't want to
34:12
begrudge him having run his race.
34:15
And of course, you know, we can't we we can't know what what
34:21
happens, what has happened to our loved ones that we have
34:24
every reason to hope that and to expect that Jim is is in heaven.
34:29
And his last real conversation on earth was was confession with
34:36
our friend Father Matt, who came over and visited him on a
34:39
Thursday. The last food that he ate was
34:42
the Eucharist. And our, our pastor, Father
34:45
Margos came over to give him the last rites and his eyes were
34:52
closed. He you could sort of rouse him,
34:55
but he really wasn't interacting anymore.
34:59
And Father Marquis was reading, you know, read a little passage
35:04
from, from the Gospel and, and Jim opened his eyes to listen.
35:09
And then he asked him if he wanted to receive the Eucharist.
35:11
And he said yes. And that was the last word he
35:14
ever said. It was the last food he ate.
35:17
You know, I, I, I tell anyone who will listen to me now, you
35:20
know, go to confession because as much as you know you need it
35:25
for you, you never know what's going to happen.
35:27
And, and it is such a comfort to our family to know that he had,
35:35
you know, had the last rites, that he made a good confession,
35:38
that he had this holy death. And Catholics have this
35:43
tradition of praying to Saint Joseph for a happy death.
35:48
And that that's a surprising thing to hear if you've never
35:53
heard it before. But the tradition is that Joseph
35:57
died at home with Our Lady and Jesus.
36:02
And, And So what could be a happier death than that, right?
36:08
And so we pray to Saint Joseph for a happy death.
36:11
And Jim died, you know, in our home, surrounded by his
36:17
children, his parents, his brother and sister, my sister.
36:22
And I wasn't sure when it was hard to know what, you know,
36:33
when, when is it really the end? And is this going to be a long
36:36
process, you know, to to call his parents and say like, hey, I
36:40
think you guys better get out here.
36:42
That's not a call that that you want to make.
36:44
And, you know, it's I, I sort of liken it to not wanting to when
36:51
you're, when you're pregnant and you don't want to show up at the
36:55
at the hospital and have them tell you, no, you're not really
36:57
in labor, go home. You know, I didn't want to tell
37:00
everybody like this is it, this is the end and have it, you
37:03
know, not be, but, but I felt like, all right, this, this
37:07
seems serious and I don't want them to miss it.
37:09
So I, you know, let his parents know.
37:12
I let his his family know and then I sort of face this
37:16
decision. Do I, do I let our, our friends
37:20
know or do I keep this sort of quiet and private?
37:23
And it just sort of mulling it over and thinking, you know, so
37:33
many people have known that he was sick and so many people have
37:36
been praying for him. And Catholic tradition is not to
37:41
have death be quiet and private. Catholic tradition is that it's
37:46
something that we support each other through and that we, and
37:49
that we share. And so I, you know, we had his
37:54
Hospice. We, I couldn't, I couldn't get
37:57
him to agree to Hospice until he was no longer responsive.
38:00
And so once he, once he was not responsive anymore, we, we
38:05
called Hospice. And Hospice is such a beautiful
38:11
ministry that they, you know, they come and help prepare
38:13
families, help you prepare the home and, you know, resources
38:17
that you need for somebody who's dying in the home.
38:20
So they came and set up a bed in a sort of semi public part of
38:25
our, of our home. And we told everybody and one of
38:30
my good friends set up a sort of a schedule, but we said like
38:35
people can come whenever. And we had there were rosaries
38:39
being set in my house all the time.
38:42
And, and that was something that I was really grateful for too.
38:47
In particular in that moment is the rosary, because people would
38:50
come and they would, you know, go and they, they would greet
38:55
me, they would greet the children, They would go and say
38:57
what they wanted to, to be able to say to Jim.
39:00
And then we'd start a rosary. And I mean, we did dozens of of
39:05
rosaries and, and this was I guess Friday, this was through
39:13
the day on Friday. And then he, he eventually died
39:16
in the middle of the day on Saturday.
39:17
But so Friday and Saturday, so many of our friends, I, I, I'm
39:21
not great with, with numbers. So I don't want to say a
39:24
particular number, but I mean, people were, we're just in and
39:28
out all day. And, and I ended up really
39:30
grateful that that we did share that because I don't know that
39:38
that I think that sort of American culture is to keep
39:41
death, you know, quiet and, you know, away from children and,
39:46
and, you know, not, not talk about it, not think about it.
39:51
But having being surrounded by by our friends, being surrounded
39:58
by prayer, being supported in that way was, I think it was
40:03
really. Meaningful to to our family and
40:07
and to our friends who got to who got to say goodbye to him.
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40:52
What was the hardest part about Jim's death?
40:56
For you, I mean. So there's the losing, losing
41:04
this person who is your, you know, your one person that's,
41:08
that's got to be sort of the the worst part of it.
41:12
The hardest part is the logistics afterwards.
41:16
I mean, it was, and, and this is, you know, he had done, he'd
41:22
done some planning ahead of time to try to get things in order.
41:26
But I think it was at least two months of, of full time effort
41:35
to get everything changed over into my name to get, you know,
41:39
life insurance policies sorted out.
41:42
And every little thing that's in his name and all these different
41:46
accounts and, you know, retirement accounts from all,
41:48
every different job that he'd had.
41:50
So he created a doc that had all of at least, you know, all the
41:58
names of the financial institutions, all the everywhere
42:02
he had worked. He did things, you know, all of
42:05
those things, which was really useful.
42:06
But that part was really hard. And you're having to deal with
42:11
with all of all of this like so much paperwork right on the
42:16
heels of, you know, of, of this loss.
42:20
So it's kind of a double whammy of unpleasantness.
42:24
What was it like for the kids? And also, you're busy.
42:27
I mean, you have 10 children, including a 2 or almost 3 year
42:30
old, and you're now dealing with all this paperwork like you're
42:33
saying. Yeah.
42:34
And how are how is it managing that?
42:36
And how were they doing? So my sister stayed and helped
42:40
me. We were able to have the funeral
42:43
Mass and the reception pretty quickly.
42:46
And you know, I had so many friends able to help with that
42:51
is a really, really beautiful Mass.
42:55
And yeah, again, just I think that it it, we had those
43:05
consolations and comfort of, of this of this happy death of
43:10
knowing that he had lived his life as as well as he could and,
43:18
and being really supported by a great community was helpful.
43:23
And you know, different kids have different temperaments.
43:26
My one of my daughter's who is sort of my my one kid who
43:31
notices when things need doing and and does them.
43:35
Does she take after? Jim yes, Yeah.
43:38
And the rest take after you. But I mean, she's just, she's a
43:42
doer of things and she's very responsible.
43:45
And it felt like she was feeling sort of a real burden of of
43:52
things undone around the house. And so when my sister headed
43:57
headed back to her house in Iowa, I, I asked her to take my
44:01
daughter with her and go. But she's got, she got 2 girls
44:04
who are about two cousins who are about her age.
44:07
And I, it felt like she needed to not be in the chaos of my
44:12
house, not not because I didn't need her.
44:15
She would have been really helpful, but all the rest of the
44:18
kids, It wasn't going to bother them if things weren't up to our
44:21
usual standards. So you know it.
44:24
And, and the kids dealt with it in, in different ways.
44:29
One of my son's, his best friend, had also lost his
44:32
father. And it, it was strange to, for
44:38
them to all of a sudden have this in common.
44:41
But you know, his mom just offered to come and pick him up
44:45
And, and you know, what he wanted was to hang out with
44:48
people and, and, you know, be with other people.
44:51
And some of the kids wanted to, you know, have more quiet time
44:56
alone. And, and so there's no, you
44:58
know, there's no right or wrong way to, well, I suppose there
45:02
are some wrong, but, you know, within reason, everybody's going
45:06
to process things a little bit differently, you know, and
45:11
there's this standard sort of portrayal in the media of, of
45:17
what I called the very sad widow.
45:20
And I was trying to, you know, I, I, I'm a person who likes to
45:23
do things. And I, I had, you know, my like,
45:26
sort of needlework projects or like, you know, some crafting
45:32
projects that I just sort of wanted to sit quietly and, and
45:35
when I didn't have anything else to do, I wanted to watch TV and
45:38
do my projects. And every show I tried to start
45:40
had this and they were really different shows who all happened
45:46
to have a character who had been widowed and was unable to
45:50
function, you know, of like basically abandons her children
45:54
and can't take care of anything because of her grief.
45:57
And I would see that like that is that is, you know, how do I
46:02
stop that from happening to me? How do I stay engaged?
46:07
How do I process my grief but still stay engaged with my
46:10
family and not have them suffer the loss of both of us because
46:15
I'm, you know, refusing to interact with them?
46:20
And, and again, I think that that's, you know, I call her the
46:22
very sad widow, but it's really the like despairing widow.
46:26
And and so to, you know, to, to avoid falling into despair, that
46:33
like sort of the textbook definition of despair is when
46:37
you doubt God's ability to, to be, to be big enough to deal
46:45
with your problem or to forgive your sins specifically.
46:47
So you'd say, well, there's, you know, I have no recourse to God
46:51
because my sins are so big that that he couldn't forgive me.
46:54
I couldn't go to heaven. But then also to not think, you
47:00
know, my personal tragedy is so big that I couldn't give it to
47:04
God, that I couldn't turn to God in this.
47:06
And, you know, and I think that's how and you can feel
47:10
that, you know, the, the presence of that despair and,
47:15
you know, just trying to keep it at Bay by by turning to prayer
47:20
and, and if you can't, by asking other people to pray for you.
47:25
And again, that's that, that's where that intercessory prayer
47:28
comes in, because sometimes you're just not in a place where
47:31
you can pray for yourself. And, and I think it's such a
47:35
beautiful thing to have other people, you know, carrying you
47:38
at that time. What does that look like for
47:41
you, being in a place where maybe you're feeling numb or
47:44
just so temptation on an emotional level to despair,
47:48
where you feel that you can't pray, and then what are you
47:50
doing those moments? Yeah.
47:52
And for me, it was just having a, a couple friends that I
47:57
really felt like I could trust. And it was, it was something
48:02
that I really struggled with the, the, that everybody that I
48:08
would meet would tilt their head to the side and say, like, how
48:13
are you doing? As if, like this acquaintance
48:18
from school, like I like, I'm really going to just lay it all
48:21
out for you here at this Christmas party, You know, So
48:25
that's something that was, that was hard to, you know, figure
48:28
out how to navigate this sort of new world of not only being a
48:31
widow, but of people reacting to you in a particular way.
48:36
And I didn't want to really dwell on things like that.
48:40
So it was having just one or two people that I, that I confided
48:43
in one or two people who knew it would be, you know, it was too
48:47
one like my, my sister and, and, and a good friend.
48:51
So to not, you know, lay that on everyone, but to have a couple
48:55
people that I knew that, that that could help me carry that
48:59
burden. And then, you know, try to rise
49:04
to the occasion for for other people and for and for my kids
49:08
and, you know, spend spend that time with them, interact with
49:12
them, listen to them and and really like they are they are
49:17
doing really well. Oh, another thing that that I
49:21
did, I were, I were black for for six months and I kind of
49:26
wish I'd done it for a whole year.
49:29
Why? Yeah.
49:32
So the sacraments are an outward expression of an inward truth
49:37
that it's something that allows us to in, in it's sort of a
49:42
tactile way, experience this truth.
49:44
And so for me, wearing black was an outward expression of, of the
49:52
inner change that had happened in my life.
49:55
And, and I, you know, it's something that that that really
50:00
went what it is a part of so many cultures throughout
50:06
history. And it's only, you know, very
50:10
recently that that we don't have any, that it's no longer
50:14
traditional for to have these outward expressions of mourning.
50:20
And I, I think that it's that this sort of odd suppression of,
50:30
of public mourning where, you know, it used to be that, that
50:34
even extended family, you know, you'd wear, you'd wear a, a, a
50:40
band so that people would know that you were in mourning and
50:43
they could treat you accordingly.
50:45
Now, me wearing black because I live in our time and our
50:50
society, you know, I just look like a Hostess at a fancy
50:54
restaurant or a like middle-aged goth person.
50:59
But I knew and the people who knew me, it was sort of a
51:02
reminder to them of, of what I was going through in a way that
51:07
that didn't have to be discussed.
51:10
You know, it was, it was a quiet reminder to other people.
51:15
And to me, it was this outward expression of, of an inner
51:19
truth. And I sort of, I, I decided to
51:26
stop wearing all black at six months.
51:28
But, and I think that kind of that it probably would have been
51:34
better to, for me to, to stick with it for a whole year.
51:37
Because I think that to me, once I had taken off the black, I was
51:41
like, all right, let's get back to real life.
51:43
Let's get back to, you know, to my, to my obligations.
51:49
And but when I was wearing black, I think it sort of gave
51:54
me, it was me giving myself permission to really be a widow.
51:58
And I think that I should that it would have been better for me
52:01
to continue that a little bit longer.
52:04
And I know, I mean, it's so uncommon for for people to do
52:07
it, but I don't know why because I mean, I personally found it
52:11
really helpful. What advice would you give to
52:14
someone who has lost recently a spouse or a very dear loved one?
52:21
I mean, it sounds like you approached grief in a very
52:24
intentional way. Yeah, I, I think, I think you're
52:27
right. I did.
52:30
And I know that, you know, the, the way I see the world isn't
52:34
how everybody sees the world. And the way that I experienced
52:37
grief isn't how everybody experiences grief.
52:41
But, you know, there's sort of standard advice on don't make
52:45
big decisions when you're in the middle of grief.
52:49
And that that I think is, is really good advice and to to
52:59
have to have those sort of set milestones.
53:03
And, and again, there used to be the sort of an like imposed by
53:11
by society sort of mile, you know, mile posts on what it was
53:17
appropriate for somebody who had lost a spouse to, to do at, you
53:22
know, at this number of months or years afterwards.
53:25
And we've lost that as that sort of framework as as a society.
53:31
And so we're left to figure out for ourselves what would be
53:35
appropriate. And I know for me, like I just
53:38
wasn't making great decisions those those first few months.
53:43
And I think that it would have been helpful to have society
53:48
sort of supporting me, you know, with with those sort of advice
53:53
on here's when it would be appropriate to do this, here's
53:55
when it would be appropriate to do this.
53:57
But again, I mean, I was so fortunate to have to have a good
54:02
community, to have good friends. And so I would say that that
54:05
too, don't make big decisions for, you know, at least six
54:12
months, maybe a year to, to really focus, you know, to find
54:18
a couple of people that you can really trust with your grief.
54:24
And that I read somewhere about the, you know, these like
54:28
circles of, of grief because the people all around me were also
54:33
affected by my husband's death, right?
54:36
So my kids were also, but also the people at our school and the
54:39
people that he worked with. And, and so you're supposed to
54:44
seat yourself in these circles and you're allowed to complain
54:50
to people farther away. And you support people, you
54:54
know, on an inner ring. And so, you know, to find people
54:59
who you know, because my, my sister, my, you know, my best
55:04
friends were also really close with Jim.
55:06
So they were suffering too. But I was able to find somebody
55:10
who wasn't going to, you know, who like she could dump her
55:13
grief to an outward circle and just listen and support me.
55:19
So to find somebody who sort of has an understanding of of sort
55:24
of this, whatever this grief hierarchy is.
55:27
And but, but yeah, so so to the to trust my my kids to be able
55:39
to handle the, you know, the circumstances that they're
55:45
presented with. And I know, you know, my oldest
55:50
son is now the, you know, man of the house and, and has a you
55:57
know, he was home this summer teaching little kids to tie
56:02
their shoes and ride bikes. And, you know, he, I sure wasn't
56:08
expecting to have that sort of responsibility at the age of 21.
56:12
But, you know, trying to sort of find that walk that line between
56:19
respecting his, you know, respecting him as as a young
56:25
man, as a young man who, you know, was parented by his father
56:31
and and is therefore sort of the the best, you know, the one most
56:38
likely to be able to sort of continue his legacy with with
56:40
the kids. And then still recognizing that
56:44
these are not his children. And he is 21 years old.
56:47
But but I think that he, you know, he has been such a support
56:55
to me. All the kids have.
56:57
But, but, you know, so much of the responsibility kind of falls
57:01
on, on him as the, as the oldest.
57:04
And so it's been just really impressive to me to see the kids
57:10
supporting each other. And, you know, all the older
57:12
kids have, it's so hard to give advice because everybody's
57:17
situations are different. And I, I think that depending on
57:21
the circumstances of the death, you know, was it sudden?
57:24
Were, were you prepared for it? Is it something that's, you
57:28
know, more, more tragic to to be to be dealing with?
57:34
You know, I, I feel like I went through it in sort of best case
57:38
scenario in, in a lot of things. So I can't speak to, you know,
57:43
the other people who were in who are dealing with much more
57:47
challenging situations. You know, we have really
57:49
supportive family really, you know, kids who are who are
57:55
supporting each other and me that you know, this this
57:59
community that we're in. And I know not all people have
58:02
that sort of ideal as as they're going through it.
58:06
How do you navigate with all ten of them?
58:08
Now you have 10, the grief process sees you mentioned
58:12
multiple times they have different temperaments and
58:15
you're obviously having to run your business, do the practical
58:18
stuff, your own grief process. How do you manage to check in or
58:24
navigate what they're going through and and be there for
58:27
them while still taking care of all the other things that you
58:30
have to take care of? Yeah, so my oldest and my 3rd 2
58:37
are both sons are, are they're in college locally.
58:43
So they, they live in an apartment, but can but come home
58:47
often. And then my middle daughter,
58:49
right. Second daughter, first daughter,
58:52
second child is at you marry in Bismarck, ND, which is very far
58:56
from Los Angeles. And and then the rest of the
59:02
kids are, are at home. So Father's Day was really hard
59:09
for my, for my oldest daughter because there was a day that was
59:15
that, you know, the rest of us were able to be together and,
59:19
and she wasn't, I think it was Father's Day.
59:21
And, and it was hard for her because these, you know, she,
59:28
Jim died and then, and it was, you know, a month later, we
59:33
drove her to a month and a half, two months, we drove her to
59:37
college to drop her off. And so these aren't people who
59:40
knew her dad. These aren't people who really
59:43
know, you know, she, she would have to specifically tell them,
59:47
Hey, my dad just, you know, so these aren't people who had
59:51
known her before, not people who knew her dad.
59:53
So it's a great and really, you know, the, the administration,
59:59
the university president knew and he's, he's been really sweet
1:00:04
and supportive to her. He wrote her a very beautiful
1:00:08
letter. Monsignor Shea wrote her a
1:00:10
really beautiful. I'm a big fan of Monsignor Shea.
1:00:13
Yeah, he's so special. He's good people.
1:00:15
Yeah. I mean, it's it's really
1:00:18
beautiful letter. So I know he is is really like
1:00:23
specifically looking out for her, but, you know, knowing that
1:00:29
she's in this different environment.
1:00:30
And so I have to remember to check in with her on these, you
1:00:35
know, on these days that she might be feeling alone, where is
1:00:39
the rest of us, you know, have each other together.
1:00:42
But again, I keep trying to, you know, I'll take one aside and be
1:00:46
like, so how are you really? And really, you know, they, they
1:00:51
do seem to be doing really well. And I know that their dad's
1:00:55
death isn't something that will ever go away for them.
1:00:58
And it's something that that, you know, it is going to change
1:01:03
over the course of their lifetimes.
1:01:05
And there will be times that they really wish he was there.
1:01:08
And then, you know, my youngest 2 was 2 when when he died and
1:01:14
was there, you know, he, he passed away.
1:01:17
Everyone cried. And little 2 year old Barbara
1:01:20
looks around, sees everybody's crying and kind of starts fake
1:01:24
crying because she doesn't really know what's going on.
1:01:27
But everyone's crying. I guess they're supposed to be
1:01:28
crying and just kind of like grab her and be like, stop that,
1:01:34
you know? So it's going to be really
1:01:36
different for her than it is for my oldest daughter, for my
1:01:39
oldest son, who had him in their lives for a long time.
1:01:43
But we also believe, you know, that he can still look after our
1:01:47
family even though he's not physically here with us.
1:01:50
And we know that we can, you know, pray for the repose of his
1:01:54
soul. And we can still ask him to
1:01:57
intercede for for us. And, you know, I just have a lot
1:02:04
of trust that he's looking out for all of them now.
1:02:08
I've heard it said before that the quality of someone's life
1:02:12
can does greatly impact the quality of their death.
1:02:17
Not just that, you know, you can't live a good life and still
1:02:20
have a tough death or vice versa.
1:02:21
And by quality, I don't mean easy, but I mean what you were
1:02:25
talking about earlier, which is a essence of peace, you know,
1:02:29
that kind of deep peace that is a eternal happiness that can
1:02:33
lead to that. Do you think that, you know,
1:02:35
what was the approach that you and Jim had and how you parented
1:02:39
your kids together that it seems really has set them up for for a
1:02:45
grief process? That's not as maybe I don't want
1:02:48
to diminish it, complicated as maybe the word.
1:02:50
But I know for some children I've talked to or families I've
1:02:54
talked to, people close to me even that, you know, the complex
1:02:58
complications that one may have with their parent or with the
1:03:01
loved 1, you know, brokenness, woundedness, traumas can make
1:03:06
the death processing in some ways so much more painful.
1:03:11
Yeah. So, yeah, I would say that sort
1:03:13
of the two pieces of that as I see it are are regret and and
1:03:19
sort of general resiliency. And I know that I, I can
1:03:23
genuinely look at my marriage and not have regrets.
1:03:31
And, and I was so fortunate in him and I and, and that we were
1:03:38
just, we were really well suited to one another.
1:03:41
You know, we had that, that chemistry and mutual respect.
1:03:47
And, and that I think that because we were both trying to
1:03:54
be the best people and the best Christians that we could be that
1:03:58
that also, you know, necessarily makes you strive to be better
1:04:03
spouses. But you know, by the grace of
1:04:05
God, I don't look back on, you know, the decisions that we made
1:04:10
in our marriage and, and especially, you know, the
1:04:12
decision to, to be open to life. And that, you know, I now have
1:04:17
all these little pieces of him that, that I still get to have
1:04:21
in my life. And, and the way that we made
1:04:26
his treatment decisions, the way that I was able to be in the
1:04:29
hospital with him. And, you know, just little
1:04:33
memories of that and that, you know, the kids coming and
1:04:36
visiting him in the hospital. And because of like, COVID
1:04:41
regulations, we couldn't have all of the kids come and visit
1:04:45
him. So I would get permission to
1:04:49
take him for a walk in the wheelchair and I would take him
1:04:53
out of the hospital and we, and we'd meet in the courtyard and
1:04:57
we'd have feast day dinners together at the picnic tables
1:05:01
with all the kids. We had priests who would come
1:05:04
and visit in, in hospital and we're seeing masses.
1:05:07
It would say Mass for, for our family at the hospital and just
1:05:13
all these like just really beautiful and great memories
1:05:18
that we had and, and things that we did together as a family.
1:05:22
Even, you know, even at the end as his, as his symptoms were
1:05:30
were were as his disease progressed and as the symptoms
1:05:33
got worse. And you spoke very beautifully
1:05:35
about your relationship, which I wanted to ask about too, but
1:05:38
you've already shared. Does that you it sounds like you
1:05:41
approach it where you were not going to have regrets, right,
1:05:43
With how you loved each other in your marriage, which is a big
1:05:47
deal. How many of us married?
1:05:49
I mean, I'm only five years in, but I can name some things that
1:05:51
I wish I'd done differently already.
1:05:54
So, you know, that's a Yeah, so. So regret and then the other
1:05:58
piece is that resilience and that was just sort of a core
1:06:03
value for for Jim. And I think that as you know,
1:06:08
that growing up on the South side of Chicago and being a
1:06:12
Marine, it was just something that that was really important
1:06:20
to him. That the kids that that we
1:06:25
taught the kids to be, you know, to be self starters, to, to
1:06:29
have, you know, some freedom and, and autonomy to do things
1:06:34
on their own, to, to discover things, to try things and, and
1:06:41
to, you know, to be tough and to, you know, deal with, with
1:06:48
challenges. And that was just right from
1:06:51
right from the beginning, something that Jim cared a lot
1:06:55
about about teaching them. And, you know, that's that that
1:07:01
quote that probably isn't by Pope Benedict, but you know,
1:07:05
you, you weren't made for comfort.
1:07:08
You were made for greatness. And, and to just, you know, it
1:07:12
was important to him that that, that we not have that focus on,
1:07:19
on ease and comfort that that we would, you know, tell the kids
1:07:23
that, you know, tyranny's do things the tyranny way.
1:07:26
Tyranny's tyranny's can handle spicy food.
1:07:30
Tierney's can handle, you know, when, when Tierney's get hurt,
1:07:34
they say Ouch, Ouch, Ouch. And, and, you know, he had no
1:07:39
idea that that the thing that he was preparing them for was his
1:07:43
death. But, but I think that that sort
1:07:47
of that, that overall focus on being resilient and not denying
1:07:53
that that difficult things have happened, not denying the, you
1:08:00
know, that that something is, is painful.
1:08:04
It's being able to, to, to go on anyway to go on in the face of,
1:08:11
of hardship. It in, you know, it's, it's not
1:08:14
denying it, it's, it's, you know, the only way out is
1:08:17
through. And, and, and so I think that
1:08:21
that that he did sort of prepare all of us, you know, for, for
1:08:28
being able to handle it. That's an incredible example, I
1:08:31
think to me and anyone listening of how to live and, and in a
1:08:37
sense, you know, our whole life, we, we are preparing for death.
1:08:40
And so how we live is, is how in many ways how we die.
1:08:45
What about your sons? How are you?
1:08:47
How many sons do you have? 55 and 5.
1:08:50
Five and five, and some of them the youngest son is how old?
1:08:53
He is 6. How do you, how do you look at
1:08:57
that your due responsibility of being a single mother to all
1:09:02
those sons? Yeah, that's, it's something
1:09:05
that is a little daunting. I I will say, and especially
1:09:10
because Jim was such, you know, a big presence, you know, such a
1:09:16
such an important influence. I look at, you know, when my
1:09:21
when my older sons, I see them doing things that I know they
1:09:26
learned from my husband and I think, Oh no, you know, how will
1:09:31
the younger ones do that? And so.
1:09:32
What's an example? So we, we host a women's
1:09:39
conference at my house every year, every fall, just just
1:09:42
headed the Fiat conference. And it's always been like an all
1:09:45
hands on deck thing for our family that it's something we
1:09:49
put on for, for the community. And so my older sons are the
1:09:53
like security guards, thank God, you know, but they're up at 5:00
1:09:57
in the morning carrying things, setting things up.
1:10:01
And, you know, it's not for them, it's not for their
1:10:03
friends. And and so, you know, that's
1:10:08
just something that Jim had this expectation that like this is
1:10:14
mom's thing that she does and we are all going to help her do it.
1:10:18
And so that has continued. You know, we we just put on
1:10:21
another one And my boys are are they came home from college or
1:10:25
up at 5:00 in the morning setting up tables for it.
1:10:29
And then, you know, just little things like my like third son
1:10:35
Bobby found a found a, a dead butterfly, but he found this
1:10:39
butterfly that was perfect. And, you know, he took it and he
1:10:44
and he went and, and gave it to little Barbara.
1:10:48
And he was telling her, you know, all about the different
1:10:52
parts of the butterfly. And he got her a little
1:10:54
container to hold it in. And one of the artisans at, at
1:11:01
our little artisan fair at the conference overheard him telling
1:11:07
Barbara all about this butterfly.
1:11:09
And, you know, she came to me and she said, you know, I just,
1:11:11
I know that, that that's the example that Jim set for them
1:11:17
of, of, of this masculinity that is based in service, you know,
1:11:24
that like of caring for our family.
1:11:28
And it's just so touching, you know, to see that reflected in,
1:11:34
you know, these giant sons of mine, you know, who are, are,
1:11:40
you know, looking after the, the little ones.
1:11:45
Yeah. And so how do I, how do I
1:11:47
recreate that for my younger sons?
1:11:49
And my, my hope is that the older sons will, you know, pass
1:11:53
that along. And also we have this great
1:11:55
community and, and Mr. Bowles is, is my, my troublesome, my,
1:12:05
my most lovable troublesome boy is, is in his Boy Scout troop.
1:12:09
Perfect. I heard he did a a backpacking
1:12:13
camping trip with Boy Scouts. I it makes sense one of your
1:12:17
kids would have been it because I remember joking around with my
1:12:19
brother, his son-in-law, and saying what a, what a man to go.
1:12:23
And none of these are his grandsons.
1:12:25
You know, he's doing this out of love for the community.
1:12:27
You know he spends lots of time with his grandsons too, but it
1:12:30
sounds like they're like adopted grandsons.
1:12:32
No, they they, they really are. And it's really, it feels really
1:12:37
meaningful to me that the men who were my husband's good
1:12:41
friends, they have really, you know, been there for, for my
1:12:45
kids. And, you know, when one of them
1:12:47
was having trouble in school and I decided, all right, I'm going
1:12:50
to just bring him home and homeschool him for the rest of
1:12:52
the year. And his godfather says, well,
1:12:55
like, do you want him to come and live with us for, for the
1:12:58
rest of the semester? And it's like, that is a really,
1:13:02
you know, he has 11 kids of his own.
1:13:05
And and so, but, but this is, I mean, people, Jim's friends
1:13:11
really, really loved him. And, and I know that, you know,
1:13:17
I can count on on them. One of my other son's godfathers
1:13:20
came and, you know, helped me supervise like the like kids
1:13:25
birthday parties and entertaining and hospitality was
1:13:28
always something that was really important to both of us.
1:13:31
And we would to Jim and I and we would host a lot of events at
1:13:34
our house. And, and I was wondering, you
1:13:37
know, how can I keep doing that? You know, we have a Saint
1:13:40
Patrick's Day party that is usually 300, three, 150 people
1:13:45
at my house and I'm thinking how am I going to manage this?
1:13:50
And, and one of one of our friends just texted me like to
1:13:58
before the party. He says, you know, my, my 2
1:14:01
teenage sons and I are going to be at your house at, at this
1:14:04
time to, you know, help you set up and, and they came and, you
1:14:08
know, so my expectation is that, you know, that the people who
1:14:13
loved Jim and we, we also have, you know, both of their
1:14:15
grandparents are other grandfathers are really involved
1:14:20
in, in their lives and, and still, you know, loving them
1:14:25
and, and, and setting a good example for them.
1:14:28
So my hope is that, you know, the presence of all of these
1:14:31
people, all these men who loves Jim and were, you know, and that
1:14:36
their lives were affected by, by him, that you know, that, that
1:14:40
my kids will feel that there's a, there's a really interesting
1:14:45
talk that William Bennett gave about that.
1:14:49
You know, you hear all these statistics about how terrible it
1:14:52
is for children to lose their father.
1:14:55
But apparently those statistics aren't the same for for kids who
1:15:01
lost their parents in war or in the line of duty in some way.
1:15:07
That, that, that when kids understand that their fathers
1:15:12
didn't want to leave them, that their fathers loved them, and
1:15:16
especially if they lost their lives in, in this pursuit of
1:15:20
some sort of great good, that they don't experience that loss
1:15:24
in the same way. And so I'm, I am really hopeful
1:15:27
that that my kids, you know, they, they know and understand
1:15:32
that their dad fought so hard to stay here with them, even though
1:15:37
we believe in this beautiful afterlife, that, that we, you
1:15:43
know, hope that that he is in this eternal happiness.
1:15:47
And he understood that and still wanted to stay with us for as
1:15:50
long as he could. So I think that my kids, I think
1:15:55
that they understand that. He left an incredible legacy and
1:15:59
the one that you're still building of community and faith
1:16:03
and family that I think can make so much of the difference.
1:16:08
How did he and how did you how do you now manage your time to
1:16:14
make space for liturgical living in the faith you know that's has
1:16:18
primacy in your life raising parenting 10 unique souls
1:16:23
business friendships sounds like your husband especially you had
1:16:27
so many friendships. You're very hospitable.
1:16:30
Yeah, I would say that that is the part of this that I'm
1:16:35
struggling with the most, that trying to, you know, trying to
1:16:40
prioritize things, trying to decide, you know, when to coddle
1:16:49
myself a little bit, when to, you know, give myself a kick in
1:16:53
the pants to, you know, to, to start accomplishing some things.
1:16:59
I think that that's that's hard. And and it's got to be.
1:17:04
I think that that it's, I have been, I guess a working mom for
1:17:09
a long time, but I've never seen myself as that.
1:17:12
It always just sort of was a side hustle and I was a stay at
1:17:16
home homeschooling mom. And I want to, but my, you know,
1:17:21
my kids are in school now so that I can, you know, try to
1:17:25
focus on on making the business success.
1:17:30
But at the same time, I still want to have that feeling in my
1:17:34
home of, of, of that my kids are the priority.
1:17:40
And it is really hard. And I, you know, I'm, I have a
1:17:45
lot of, you know, I have a lot of, you know, respect and
1:17:51
sympathy now for, for single moms, for working moms, for, for
1:17:57
people trying to figure out how to, how to prioritize these
1:18:01
things. And I would I would say that I
1:18:02
have officially not figured all of that out.
1:18:06
How do you give yourself grace in that process of figuring out
1:18:10
how to be that single parent, that business owner?
1:18:13
Grief. Being a widow.
1:18:17
Yeah, I I think that a big part of it has been.
1:18:21
So there's another Padre Pio quote that that I that I really
1:18:27
love that it says, you know, something to the effect of
1:18:31
blessed is the the crisis that made you, you know, that that
1:18:38
made you look to God bless. This is a fall that, you know,
1:18:40
that that made you reliant on God And, and that that has been,
1:18:47
I think, something that I've been really grateful to have
1:18:53
been able to, you know, sort of find my way through over these
1:18:57
past few months and end up in a place of spending a lot more
1:19:02
time in prayer, a lot more time in personal prayer than I ever
1:19:05
did before. Because, you know, I, I always
1:19:09
sort of considered myself like, all right, I'm this worker bee.
1:19:12
God's going to God gives me these inspirations.
1:19:14
God has given me these jobs. I'm just going to work, work,
1:19:17
work and I'm going to get these things done for the Kingdom.
1:19:20
And As for whatever reason, my like, you know, worker bee
1:19:26
mentality hasn't been bringing the same sort of success that it
1:19:30
did when my husband was alive. And I've really found recourse
1:19:35
in prayer in a way that that I, I didn't have before.
1:19:39
And so in some ways it just feels like this is the season,
1:19:45
this is this is where God wants me right now to, to feel really
1:19:49
reliant on him and not rely, not feel like I can rely on myself,
1:19:53
not feel like I can accomplish everything.
1:19:55
To see that that, that if I'm working just as hard and things
1:20:00
are not as successful as they used to be, then that's a big
1:20:05
reminder of that. It was never me to begin with.
1:20:08
And, and that I've always been a big proponent of the sort of
1:20:12
bless it or block it prayer that if God wants me to be doing
1:20:16
something, then he's going to, you know, and obviously it, it
1:20:20
does require that, you know, personal commitment.
1:20:23
But if but if God wants something to be a success, then
1:20:27
he then it will be. And if and if it's not, then
1:20:32
maybe that's then that's because he wants me to be spending my
1:20:37
energy in a different place somehow.
1:20:40
But but I would say that, you know, it's that sort of feeling
1:20:43
of, of when, when your life doesn't look exactly the way
1:20:50
that you wish it would and you don't see a, an immediate plan.
1:20:57
You know, like I love a plan. I love a plan.
1:21:00
And when I look at my life and I see, well, there's no plan I can
1:21:03
make that gets me to the life I had before.
1:21:08
There's no plan I can make that gets me really to a clear, you
1:21:14
know, place where I would consider myself in, like, an
1:21:18
ideal family situation. Again, there's no plan I can
1:21:21
make for that. And so all I can do is, you
1:21:24
know, like Saint Peter when he said, you know, where else can
1:21:27
we turn where there is nowhere else to turn?
1:21:31
And. And so, yeah, it just is is
1:21:37
feeling allowing yourself to feel that vulnerability and turn
1:21:41
to God. At such a powerful prayer, bless
1:21:44
it or block it. Yep, it's good.
1:21:48
No, it's good. And to know we do what we can,
1:21:52
but at the end of the day, the Lord is the one that blesses
1:21:56
her, blocks the Lord does, does what he will.
1:21:59
Right. And, and I, I, I honestly
1:22:02
appreciate that reminder because I think that that for, for
1:22:07
people who are like religious professionally, you know, they,
1:22:10
they, it's, it's easy to sort of think like, here's me doing all
1:22:16
this good stuff. When you like, you have to
1:22:18
realize like, you know, Santa Teresa of Calcutta, who says,
1:22:25
you know, I'm just a pencil that, that she's not, you know,
1:22:28
she's saying I'm not the one doing all these things.
1:22:30
I'm just, you know, working. I'm, I'm just accomplishing what
1:22:34
God wants me to accomplish. And so to realize like none of
1:22:37
this was me to begin with. This was all God.
1:22:40
This was, you know, by the grace of God, I was able to correspond
1:22:43
to, you know, and, and do some of these things that he wanted
1:22:46
me to do. And if he wants it to look
1:22:48
different now, then then that's allowed.
1:22:53
Kendra, thanks so much for joining the podcast.
1:22:56
This has been awesome. Thank you, I'm so excited for
1:22:58
people to follow your work more. And where can people find your
1:23:01
work? Catholicoyear.com and I'm on
1:23:05
Facebook, I'm on Instagram and yeah, I'm I'm pretty easy to
1:23:12
find. On formed and on formed.
1:23:15
Register with any perish and find formed.
1:23:18
Thank you so much, Kendra. Thank you.
1:23:21
Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Lila Rose
1:23:23
Podcast. As usual, don't forget to
1:23:25
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1:23:33
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1:23:37
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