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Exploring the Enneagram and How We Care | Revisited Conversation · Neighbourly: Real Stories of Care and Community

• 0:01
  Hello. Johan here. Welcome back to Journey with Care. I'm really glad that you joined
• 0:05
  me today as I continue our replay series. We're looking back at some of
• 0:08
  those most meaningful conversations that we had and just some of
• 0:12
  our favorite episodes that we wanted to make sure that people got a chance to
• 0:15
  listen to either a second time or a first time and ones that we believe
• 0:19
  are worth a second lesson. This episode especially was a lot of
• 0:22
  fun. It was the start of a longer series that we did called The Flavors
• 0:25
  of Care. We did it on the different ways people care. In fact, we even
• 0:29
  had a big ice cream party at the end of it. It was a ton
• 0:31
  of fun. In this episode, we had the chance to sit down with
• 0:35
  Tamara. She's an Enneagram expert who runs
• 0:38
  Enneagram Aware. She actually quit her teaching job to start this. She
• 0:42
  does a lot of consultation for different groups and companies, that sort of thing. Anyway,
• 0:42
  she shared her
• 0:46
  Anyway, she shared her personal journey of self discovery of the Enneagram and powerful
• 0:50
  lessons that she learned about caring for others. She opened up about
• 0:54
  her understanding of Enneagram and how it completely changed the way
• 0:58
  that she approaches her life, her work, and her community. And then
• 1:02
  she went into the importance of the inner work, the deep work,
• 1:05
  learning to accept yourself, the subtle ways that we show up for one another.
• 1:09
  Her story really sets the tone for the series, so we wanted to dive into
• 1:13
  it again and into the different perspectives on caregiving and the Enneagram
• 1:17
  and explore how our unique personalities and life experiences
• 1:20
  shape how we care. And let me tell you, this conversation really
• 1:24
  sparked some meaningful discussions around dinner tables. It got a
• 1:28
  lot of people thinking about the different ways that we care and even just the
• 1:31
  different ways that we tick and interact with one another. I know me and my
• 1:35
  wife had some conversations too, so it was really neat. And I know that you'll
• 1:38
  find something that resonates with you too. So, again, whether this is your first time
• 1:42
  listening or you're coming back for a second listen, I encourage you to stick with
• 1:45
  the whole episode and share it with someone who might need to hear these insights
• 1:49
  and maybe you wanna go listen to the whole series or just a couple that
• 1:52
  might interest you. So thanks again for listening. We look forward to starting
• 1:56
  season 4 in February. Lots of good stuff on the way. So sit down,
• 2:00
  enjoy this conversation between Wendy and Tamara.
• 2:05
  Well, I'm excited to kick off a new series here on
• 2:09
  Journey with Care. We're gonna be diving right into the flavors of
• 2:13
  care. And with me, I'm so delighted to have Tamara Craker. Welcome
• 2:16
  to the podcast. I'm very excited to be here. Yeah. We're gonna
• 2:20
  have a fun time today setting the stage for what will be
• 2:24
  another 9 episodes. And when we're talking about
• 2:27
  flavors of care, we're really wanting to dive right in, dig
• 2:31
  right into the ways people care in their
• 2:35
  community and just identifying and acknowledging
• 2:38
  and appreciating the diversity within our communities and
• 2:42
  how we look at the world, what motivates our care,
• 2:46
  and we're gonna be hearing from a lot of people over the next
• 2:49
  weeks to really understand their stories and how we're wired
• 2:53
  differently to care. And some of you may be familiar
• 2:57
  with the Enneagram. This isn't that show, but we are gonna
• 3:01
  be diving a little bit into that tool, and that's why I've invited
• 3:05
  our friend here, Tamara Craker, to the podcast
• 3:08
  because you know a lot about it. Tell us a little bit about yourself.
• 3:12
  Well, my journey with the Enneagram started
• 3:16
  almost 10 years ago, and I was looking
• 3:19
  at a list of what an
• 3:23
  Enneagram 9 would maybe be thinking, and every single
• 3:27
  one of them was me. And I thought, how is it
• 3:30
  possible that something or someone
• 3:34
  would know kind of an insight into my inner world and be
• 3:37
  able to name it in a way that I couldn't even name all the
• 3:41
  time. So I really started
• 3:45
  because I was super curious about
• 3:49
  myself and about this system
• 3:52
  that kind of provided a sense of
• 3:56
  self awareness, self acceptance, and a way to
• 4:00
  expand kind of how I think. So over the
• 4:03
  last 2 decades, I've been a teacher, and I've taught different ages and
• 4:07
  different subject areas, most recently as a music teacher.
• 4:11
  But as I started digging into the Enneagram and
• 4:14
  realizing how transformative it is and how it
• 4:18
  shifted even how I was as a teacher and how I related to people
• 4:22
  around me, I just had a feeling that it
• 4:26
  was gonna be my next big move. So when it shifted, would you say
• 4:29
  it's altered sort of who you thought of yourself or the
• 4:33
  direction and you just learned more about yourself? What what happened as you
• 4:37
  were doing that? I think I became more and more
• 4:40
  aware of my patterns and behaviors, and I realized that
• 4:44
  at some point, the amount of books and studying I could
• 4:48
  do individually was reaching its limit, and I really wanted
• 4:52
  to seek some professional guidance. So some professional
• 4:55
  courses, some professional coaching so that I could take it
• 4:59
  to the next level. So you are making a shift,
• 5:03
  a significant shift in your life right now from teaching, and I'm sure it's a
• 5:06
  transferable skill that won't go to waste at all, but you're making
• 5:10
  a significant shift into coaching, I understand,
• 5:14
  and your new company or organization is called Enneagram
• 5:18
  Aware. That's right. Yeah. Literally just launching it right now.
• 5:21
  So I'm very excited. What's the website? We're gonna bring your first,
• 5:25
  people to your website. So my website is going to be enneagram
• 5:29
  aware dotca. Whoop whoop. Go there for lots of
• 5:33
  education on the Enneagram and finding out your number
• 5:37
  and a little bit of psychology, Johari Window, the
• 5:40
  circle of change, some of those really interesting concepts that
• 5:44
  promotes awareness, promotes the idea that we maybe
• 5:48
  don't know as much as we think we know about ourselves.
• 5:52
  So tell me a little bit more about
• 5:56
  making that shift, and you must really believe in self
• 5:59
  awareness and understanding our relation with others and and in
• 6:03
  our community to make that shift. Why is it so important
• 6:07
  to help others find their awareness? Well, for me,
• 6:11
  we'll get into this later, but I'm an Enneagram 9. And so the
• 6:15
  majority of my life has been spent trying to figure out
• 6:19
  other people's lives. And so it took me a
• 6:23
  long time to realize that my focus was on others instead
• 6:26
  of my own ideas, preferences, things
• 6:30
  that I actually liked and wanted. And so the journey with the
• 6:34
  Enneagram has brought me to a place where I can look at
• 6:37
  teaching, and I can look at it and say, I like this. I'm
• 6:41
  good at this, but is it what I really want to do right now?
• 6:45
  And as I've kind of done that inner self
• 6:49
  discovery, I've realized that the things that I brought to teaching, the
• 6:52
  skills, and the ways that I welcome students into my
• 6:56
  classroom, those were things that I got better at as I got
• 7:00
  to know myself better. And those skills are going to
• 7:04
  work in a lot of different professions. And so while I am
• 7:07
  not leaving teaching because I don't like it, I really liked it and
• 7:11
  still would love to teach. I really wanna try something in a
• 7:15
  subject area that I'm super passionate about, and that's why I'm making the move
• 7:19
  to teach in the Enneagram world and see what that looks like
• 7:22
  and see where that takes me next. So talk to the person
• 7:26
  that is maybe skeptical about, well, you can't corner me
• 7:30
  into one type. I I'm, like, I'm a little more nuanced, or aren't
• 7:33
  we all just people? How do you work through that? Because I know
• 7:37
  as I've done inner work, it's so much more. Right. We can't go into possibly
• 7:41
  go into it in this series alone, but but how do you work with that?
• 7:45
  It may be a bit of pushback on that self awareness and, oh, this is
• 7:48
  just another construct. Sure. And I think it can be
• 7:52
  what you want it to be. I've heard it said that the Enneagram
• 7:55
  and self discovery kinda come to you when you're ready for it. So I
• 7:59
  think that there's a lot of cliches out there around the Enneagram
• 8:03
  where follow this meme or what would each Enneagram number do at a party
• 8:07
  and It gives it a bad rap, actually. I followed some things on, like,
• 8:10
  Insta and and things like that, and I'm like, oh goodness. No wonder people roll
• 8:14
  their eyes at it. Yeah. I think that those things can be
• 8:18
  fun, and I think that those things can bring some interest
• 8:21
  into your life and around the family dinner table. That's all fine and good.
• 8:25
  But what I've certainly learned about the Enneagram is it is
• 8:29
  far more nuanced than it appears on the surface
• 8:33
  and that as you start diving into the ins and
• 8:36
  outs and really interesting aspects
• 8:40
  of how the human mind works and how
• 8:43
  different people think about situations differently, I
• 8:47
  think you'll find really, like, a a treasure of stuff
• 8:51
  to discover. It really stems for me around the idea
• 8:54
  that we are not totally conscious of the ways that we are
• 8:58
  moving through the world. And so I found that
• 9:02
  the more I can accept that I may be
• 9:06
  behaving in ways that other people can see or
• 9:09
  that I can't even see myself and maybe nobody can see,
• 9:13
  you can kind of start figuring out ways that
• 9:17
  you're behaving and ways that you're interacting with
• 9:20
  people that are happening on a completely different level. And
• 9:24
  so the whole concept of the iceberg where, you know, the top
• 9:28
  is what you're seeing and you're conscious of how you're
• 9:32
  responding to somebody or someone invites you for coffee and you say
• 9:35
  yes, why did you say yes? There's so many
• 9:38
  layers below that where, you know, you had a relationship with that
• 9:42
  person from 10 years ago. So you're saying yes because you kinda feel bad. Or
• 9:46
  maybe you're saying yes because you're lonely and you really wanna hang out
• 9:50
  with someone. Or maybe you're saying yes because that's your mom's friend and you kinda
• 9:53
  feel like you should. So there's there's not Or you have a networking
• 9:57
  agenda or there's, like, I see a party. I don't wanna miss out.
• 10:01
  There's so many ways Totally. To look at the same incident, and I love
• 10:04
  that about this kind of work, and it's just
• 10:08
  really celebrating how we're wired. Yes. Exactly.
• 10:13
  So there's so much more to it. So I get that on the surface the
• 10:16
  way some people have presented it, it feels narrow, and it
• 10:20
  feels like we're being put in a box. But the truth is that
• 10:24
  we all have developed ways of dealing with the world
• 10:28
  around us, and some of those ways help us more than others. And the
• 10:31
  enneagram is about kind of examining those ways and seeing what is
• 10:35
  working and what isn't. Well, I'll take us back to our our whole
• 10:38
  series called flavors of care. It's like, I could like
• 10:42
  all kinds of flavors of ice cream, but I keep going
• 10:46
  back to that one favorite comfort. And when I need
• 10:49
  something, it's that type of ice cream. And it's really like
• 10:53
  that within ourselves. We can dabble. We have a bit of everything in
• 10:57
  us. Right? But in default mode, we have a
• 11:01
  preference. We have something, and and we're we're looking at
• 11:04
  why do I prefer that. Even going further, we have things
• 11:08
  that we choose when we're really healthy and when we're feeling really, really good, and
• 11:11
  then we have things that we choose when we're not feeling so good and we're
• 11:15
  really on autopilot. And the Enneagram is a
• 11:18
  space that envelops all of it. Mhmm. It isn't just saying,
• 11:22
  hey. You always look this way. It's saying, here's a whole bunch
• 11:26
  of reasons you might be looking this way. You might be looking this way
• 11:29
  and working with that and not saying it's wrong or this way is better
• 11:33
  or that way is worse. It's looking at it and providing a
• 11:37
  path forward to really embrace
• 11:41
  who you are and the humanity that is good, bad, and
• 11:44
  ugly, all of it. So what we're saying is really a tool
• 11:48
  a tool of many Yes. But one that many people go to
• 11:52
  for good reasons, and it just gives us
• 11:56
  language to do that inner work. Absolutely. It gives us language to
• 11:59
  talk about something we haven't always been able to access
• 12:03
  or understand of ourselves and that self discovery as we go about
• 12:07
  life. And I have to also say that I
• 12:10
  have met people who would identify in the same numbers,
• 12:14
  same preferences, same wings. We are not gonna go into all of that today.
• 12:18
  However, they're still very unique individuals. It doesn't they can look and
• 12:22
  behave even quite differently, but there's core motivations, core strengths, and
• 12:26
  core ways of seeing things that make sense
• 12:30
  to that person. And so it's not saying, oh, you're
• 12:34
  you're the same person now. It's bringing us back, and this is where
• 12:37
  theology really fits in. God made us in his image. I believe God
• 12:41
  has has everything within him, all the good, and we all are made
• 12:45
  in his image, but we have different reflections of the same
• 12:48
  creator. Yes. And all of it is good. So we're gonna
• 12:52
  celebrate that through the different flavors that
• 12:56
  we are going to dig into. So, like, figuratively, grab your spoon. Spoon. We're
• 12:59
  gonna dig into different 9 different ice cream scoops today.
• 13:03
  And then the the coming weeks, we're gonna really listen to
• 13:06
  people, and you're gonna hear. People are gonna hear the difference in the stories and
• 13:10
  perspectives of how they view caring for their community and
• 13:14
  how they feel loved. So much of it is our own self acceptance and
• 13:18
  our own ways of fitting in within the community in an
• 13:22
  authentic way, not in a forced way that community
• 13:25
  expects of you. I don't know about you. If you've lived in that, it it's
• 13:29
  a hard space to be and living in other people's expectations that
• 13:32
  doesn't resonate with who we are. Absolutely. And I think that is the
• 13:36
  danger of the Enneagram is saying, I'm a 9. Oh, look at me being a
• 13:40
  9. Oh, this is me being a 9, and I think we can lean
• 13:43
  into some of those cliches too heavily, and that's really not
• 13:47
  Or permission for bad behavior or whatever. Right? That's not the purpose of what
• 13:51
  we're trying to do. We're trying to examine what those look like.
• 13:55
  And, yes, there's laughs along the way, and everyone likes a different ice cream
• 13:58
  scoop, and that's part of the journey is being
• 14:02
  curious and having fun and embracing the
• 14:06
  fullness of what this is. Yeah. So in this series that
• 14:09
  we're beginning today, about the flavors of care, we're
• 14:13
  not gonna be making everybody experts on the Enneagram.
• 14:17
  We're not trying to assume authority over this this big
• 14:21
  subject. We're gonna invite people. If you're interested to more to do the
• 14:24
  deep work, we'll we'll include some things in the show notes, some links, and some
• 14:28
  things if you wanna do that. What are some other advice for people that are
• 14:32
  curious or wanting to do their own work in that area? Because we're not gonna
• 14:35
  cover it all. What are some words of wisdom you would have for
• 14:39
  for people? Sure. I think probably the most
• 14:42
  dangerous thing is someone who kinda likes the Enneagram and tells everybody
• 14:46
  else what type they are. It's really important to remember that
• 14:50
  your Enneagram number is yours to identify,
• 14:54
  and it is not up to you to identify others and
• 14:58
  for others to identify you. So I think it's really important to do your
• 15:01
  own work. Mhmm. I think it's also really important to remember
• 15:05
  that there aren't worse or better numbers. There
• 15:09
  are lots of levels of health and unhealth that exist in all of
• 15:13
  us, and in a given day, we are all of those things. So
• 15:16
  there isn't a better or worse in this system. Good
• 15:20
  point. I think sometimes people are confused in what number they
• 15:24
  are because we're actually all the numbers. Like we said earlier,
• 15:28
  we're all made in God's image, and we actually contain a little
• 15:31
  bit of all of these numbers. And so if you're confused at first and
• 15:35
  aren't totally sure what your number is, that isn't
• 15:38
  uncommon. So there may be some that stand out to you,
• 15:42
  and that is a perfect opportunity to dive into those
• 15:46
  numbers a little bit deeper. You don't need to feel scared if you don't find
• 15:50
  yourself immediately. There's actually a number that thinks they're all the
• 15:53
  numbers. And guess what? It's mine. Enneagram 9 thinks that they're
• 15:57
  everyone. So That doesn't surprise me. So don't worry about it. I'm
• 16:01
  there. I thought I was every number under the sun, and that
• 16:05
  usually means you're a 9. So You know what happened for me is
• 16:09
  that when I did some more work into it and and did reading,
• 16:13
  listened to some podcasts and stuff, I struggled to embrace the
• 16:16
  number that I actually naturally resonated most with me. Because
• 16:20
  I'm like, what white Mennonite girl could be
• 16:24
  possibly be the challenger? That's not cool. I've been
• 16:28
  conditioned to be a 2, to be the helper. Yes.
• 16:31
  And, yeah, the more I listened to the good, the bad, and the
• 16:35
  ugly and leaned into it and started doing my inner
• 16:39
  work that nobody else no book could tell you, you just gotta,
• 16:42
  through prayer and through reading, through just community, I
• 16:46
  discovered actually where I thrived, and I actually fought my
• 16:49
  own number. And yet it I I fought it at the same
• 16:53
  time, I exhaled. I finally
• 16:57
  found, oh, I can accept who I am
• 17:01
  Yep. Even when I felt in so many
• 17:04
  circumstances, like, too much. Well and I think that's so
• 17:08
  important to note is that sometimes the way we've been socialized
• 17:12
  predisposes us to certain numbers, and it's not necessarily
• 17:16
  the the way we are. It's the water we've been swimming in. And when you
• 17:19
  really do some of that examination, it may turn out
• 17:23
  differently than you think. And sometimes you feel uncomfortable.
• 17:27
  That's legitimate. It's that idea of when a light shines on you,
• 17:30
  there's going to be shadows and there's going to be things that make you
• 17:34
  go, oh, I didn't want anyone to know that about me or I, you
• 17:37
  know, I struggled to even admit that to myself, and that's There's a
• 17:41
  vulnerability with that. And that's part of the process.
• 17:45
  So we're going to go there. We're gonna dive right in to
• 17:49
  the 9 flavors that we've we've brought out, and, of
• 17:52
  course, there's nuances to that. You've particularly
• 17:56
  suggested, an order to how we go about the different
• 18:00
  flavors. Do you wanna talk briefly about that? Sure. And we're gonna dive right
• 18:04
  in. Sure. So the human experience is we
• 18:07
  we see it in 3 kind of different areas. We experience life through our
• 18:11
  body, through kind of our instincts. We experience life in our emotions
• 18:15
  and our feelings, and then, finally, a lot of it's experience
• 18:18
  life in our mind and how we think through things. And none of
• 18:22
  those three experiences and ways of knowing are better or worse,
• 18:26
  but, typically, people lean into one more than the others.
• 18:30
  So the way that I've been taught the Enneagram is I've
• 18:34
  been taught it in those three centers of knowing.
• 18:37
  So we were talking about going through the numbers
• 18:41
  center by center. So the body based centers, the ones who kind of,
• 18:45
  like, act first and they're ready to go, that would be numbers. Like
• 18:48
  the gut? Yeah. From the gut. And, you know, when I knew I needed to
• 18:52
  quit my job and move on, I knew it in my body. Had a hunch.
• 18:55
  I had a hunch. Yeah. So you would lean on to that rather than doing
• 18:58
  all the analytics, and you've got everything squared away on a spreadsheet. Yes.
• 19:02
  So the numbers that kinda lead with the gut and lead with action
• 19:06
  are 8, 9, and 1. And then the numbers that lead
• 19:09
  with their feelings and lead more with their heart center
• 19:13
  would be 2, 3, and 4. They're more connected to their emotions
• 19:17
  either by repressing them or internalizing them or really
• 19:21
  diving into them. And then the final center, the head or
• 19:24
  thinking center, would be 5, 6, and 7. And
• 19:28
  they're more prone to logic and more prone to really having a a
• 19:32
  system and a strategy to move forward. Okay. No. That's really
• 19:36
  good. So we're gonna start with, what did you call it, the body
• 19:39
  instinctive center, and you've chosen the 8. Oh,
• 19:43
  no. I'm on the pot seat. And we've
• 19:47
  called the eights the challengers. First of all,
• 19:50
  if you could create an ice cream that would embody
• 19:54
  the challenger we're just having fun here, so, guys, don't get too serious on here.
• 19:57
  Just grab a spoon. Okay? What would you describe an
• 20:01
  ice cream that would be the challenger in an assortment of ice creams?
• 20:05
  Well, that's such an interesting question. I feel like I need to flip that
• 20:09
  back to you. So I've heard a lot of like, eights are
• 20:13
  intense. Eights really come with a lot of
• 20:16
  energy, and they're happy to state what they like.
• 20:20
  Strong and challenging. Right? That's right. That's right. Mind
• 20:24
  sticking out a bit if we have to. Right. So, I mean, I've heard
• 20:27
  triple chocolate because that's, like, a lot. Love triple chocolate.
• 20:31
  Okay. I love triple chocolate. I was thinking black tiger because it's, like, a really
• 20:35
  strong whether you love it or hate it, it's always there. So I I
• 20:38
  don't even like it, but that's when came to mind, but I like I actually
• 20:42
  enjoy the chocolate intensity. You can't get too
• 20:45
  much. Okay. So let's go with the triple chocolate. I think triple chocolate fits. And
• 20:49
  I have an 8th friend who, once she has her mind set on
• 20:53
  something, don't even think about trying to change it. It's
• 20:56
  just probably not gonna happen. Because in our gut, we just
• 21:00
  kinda know. Know. Like, to the point where we went through a drive through
• 21:04
  once, and she said, okay. If they don't have the Nutella croissant, we're just moving
• 21:07
  on, and we're going to the next Tim Hortons. And we just kept on going
• 21:10
  until we found exactly what she wanted. Yeah. So, like, let's
• 21:14
  talk about that. Sure. So the eights are
• 21:18
  the friend that always has your back. I think the
• 21:22
  eights are strong and bold, and sometimes they get a bad
• 21:25
  rap for being very direct and blunt
• 21:29
  Mhmm. Or we could call it to the point. And some aids
• 21:33
  have a better nuance around how to deliver their bluntness,
• 21:37
  but you never have to feel like you don't know what they're
• 21:40
  thinking. They are who they are. I also know
• 21:44
  that I'm not prone to passive
• 21:48
  aggression. Maybe aggression. What you see is what you get.
• 21:51
  There's no hidden agenda. What I I've got got no time
• 21:55
  for for playing games or what do you really mean. I'll say
• 21:59
  what I mean. Yes. And I'm learning how to do it tactfully. But yeah.
• 22:03
  And, actually, what I find and and we'll go into the 8 site. I'm not
• 22:06
  gonna to to steal the show for who's gonna be coming with me to
• 22:10
  this journey on Enneagram 8 with Caitlin Cron. But
• 22:14
  there's intimacy that happens when there's confrontation or intensity
• 22:18
  Yes. When we even have good debates
• 22:22
  or pose we're not against people, but there's an intimacy
• 22:25
  that happens when we're like, okay. Now we're getting to something good. Yes. Well
• 22:29
  and that is when we think about the whole community as a whole.
• 22:33
  You need that person that's prepared to say, hey.
• 22:37
  That felt awkward. Here's what my interpretation of that is. And
• 22:41
  to jump right into that instead of backing away from those moments that
• 22:45
  other people aren't so sure about, you need that number to get
• 22:48
  in there and get their feet dirty and get it going.
• 22:53
  So in the church, we need eights. Yes. We need challengers in
• 22:56
  there when they're in their health. Yes. Because it can also be a bomb that's
• 23:00
  ready to detonate. So this is why, folks, do yourself
• 23:03
  awareness because, otherwise, we're just dangerous. Right? Get your journal out.
• 23:07
  Everyone get journaling. Ace. But in our health, the church needs
• 23:11
  us because we will actually identify the elephants in
• 23:14
  the sanctuary, not in a condemning angry way.
• 23:18
  We're just saying, let's do something. This is intimacy. Can we chop at this
• 23:22
  together? Can we work at social justice together? We wanna defend
• 23:25
  the underdog Mhmm. Like nobody's business. We love so
• 23:29
  intensely that sometimes we get misinterpreted. Yes. And we have to learn
• 23:33
  how to nuance that as well to work with others. Well, and I think it's
• 23:36
  a really beautiful thing when an 8 gets behind an issue
• 23:40
  because I think that there is so much power in what they
• 23:44
  bring to the table. They're not gonna quit until they see
• 23:47
  justice coming to the forefront. I
• 23:51
  think the challenge, like you're saying, is not taking that all on
• 23:55
  themselves. Mhmm. And to acknowledge that while other
• 23:58
  people have their power showing in very different ways,
• 24:02
  those ways aren't worse. They are just different.
• 24:06
  And so the collective power that the aid is seeking
• 24:10
  is in that community coming together and building
• 24:14
  something amazing. And I think we also have to look at the
• 24:17
  shadow side of a challenger, that
• 24:21
  triple chocolate ice cream, is that
• 24:25
  we don't wanna be controlled. We feel threatened when we're
• 24:28
  controlled or people try to manipulate. I can sniff through
• 24:32
  that. No. No. No. No. You're not gonna do that. We we we
• 24:35
  fear that. We don't do well with that, and
• 24:39
  those are just some realities that we we talked about earlier before the
• 24:43
  show that there's always a flip side. Our strengths become our challenges, and
• 24:47
  just becoming aware of that, it doesn't mean we deny ourselves. It just becomes, let's
• 24:51
  be a healthier version of ourselves and understand where
• 24:54
  God is leading us toward wholeness and healing. Well and 90%
• 24:58
  of that is an acceptance of it. It's seeing that pattern in
• 25:02
  yourself and going, I feel that pattern coming up again. That will get
• 25:06
  you 90% of the way forward rather than
• 25:09
  pretending it doesn't exist or trying to fight against that
• 25:13
  feeling of vulnerability inside of you. Yeah. Trust me. Being a a
• 25:16
  suppressed 8 is no good. It is just no
• 25:20
  fun, and nothing would change. Come on, guys.
• 25:24
  Okay. I wanna put you on the hot seat now. Okay. We're gonna go on
• 25:26
  to the next number 9, the harmonizer, which we affectionately
• 25:30
  call what ice cream would you give for your
• 25:34
  people? My answer is whatever you want, I'm fine with.
• 25:38
  That is so 9. Such a harmony answer.
• 25:43
  Well, so I actually I do like cookies and cream. That is my
• 25:46
  favorite. Like, that classic vanilla with, like, a little bit
• 25:50
  of fun in it. Like, Oreos are my favorite cookie. Like, don't Who
• 25:54
  doesn't like it? So you mean It could be a party favorite you bring it
• 25:57
  to Right. To a potlucks. So they're nothing, like, too wild and crazy.
• 26:01
  There's a bit of comfort in it Yeah. Yeah. Is definitely my
• 26:04
  my double edged sword if we're looking at that comfort. I will choose
• 26:08
  comfort over lots of other things. It must be
• 26:12
  fun to be a harmonizer because harmonizer is always the the loved one, the
• 26:15
  the soft, the the kind one in the group, in my experience anyway.
• 26:19
  I was thinking, actually, you didn't wanna offend anyone, and you wanted to be the
• 26:23
  vanilla with a ton of different toppings. Everybody choose your own toppings so
• 26:27
  everybody's happy. Well, that's actually thought of a 9. That's one of my
• 26:30
  favorite things is a Sunday bar. Absolutely. Where you actually get to
• 26:34
  choose yeah. Like, the Tutti Frutti where you, like, go through the line and
• 26:38
  get your frozen yogurt, and you just get exactly what you want without being
• 26:42
  influenced by everybody else. Thoughtful. I would have tried to push on why
• 26:45
  the the triple dark chocolate would be the best. An 8 and
• 26:49
  a 9 discussing ice cream. So so tell me a little bit more
• 26:53
  about being a harmonizer, just a a broad stroke. So I think
• 26:56
  what I've learned is I appear to be very
• 27:00
  peaceful and calm on the outside, but I am very aware that my
• 27:04
  internal world is working overtime. Oh, really? Yeah. So I
• 27:07
  think that either that's my double edged sword of being the
• 27:11
  peacemaker where I'm constantly trying to
• 27:14
  evaluate how everybody is feeling and making sure that everybody is
• 27:18
  staying happy and making sure that their needs and anything that they could
• 27:22
  possibly be thinking about is being tackled to the
• 27:25
  detriment of anything that I would possibly want or need. I'm
• 27:29
  not even on the priority list. I I don't make the cut.
• 27:33
  So how does that play itself out if you're harmonizing to the
• 27:36
  detriment of who you are? How do you work with that? You know,
• 27:40
  for me, personally, it took me literally
• 27:44
  falling asleep in my own mind so I would get this brain
• 27:47
  fog where I would know that I was forgetting
• 27:51
  myself, and I didn't totally get
• 27:55
  it. I didn't totally get it. I thought maybe I was stressed or I was
• 27:58
  tired or I was something, which incidentally, like, nines
• 28:02
  are classic sloths, lazy, tired is what we get
• 28:05
  called, but it really isn't I do a lot. I'm active.
• 28:09
  It's just internally, I forget myself constantly. So
• 28:13
  I really needed to look inside and see what was
• 28:17
  causing some of those moments of forgetfulness,
• 28:22
  and they're everywhere now. Now that's all I can see. So you're learning to
• 28:25
  find that voice? Yes. Yeah. And where would a harmonizer
• 28:29
  shine in community in relation to caring for their community? Where do they
• 28:33
  shine? Where are they rock stars? You know, the harmonizer's an interesting
• 28:37
  one because my natural inclination is always to do what other people
• 28:40
  need, and that actually ends up being to my detriment.
• 28:44
  So for me to start learning what I like and want so that
• 28:48
  I stand as my own person within a community
• 28:52
  is actually my best way forward. So the whole idea
• 28:55
  that you can't love others until you love yourself is
• 28:59
  loud and clear as a warning bell in the 9 harmonizer.
• 29:03
  So for me, my path forward has been to examine
• 29:07
  me so that I can actually bring a full person into the
• 29:11
  community of God instead of bringing a half person
• 29:15
  that people think that they good. That they need or want.
• 29:19
  Right. Does that make sense? Because you are that best gift when your whole self
• 29:23
  comes, and I'm okay with that. Right? When it means I'm a bit needier than
• 29:27
  I would have liked to have been. Yeah. Yeah. So I could also see
• 29:31
  it playing out in sort of more of a healthy diplomat where some
• 29:34
  might be overtaking charge or some might be withdrawn. You actually
• 29:38
  are seeking the peace of the community. Yes. And
• 29:42
  you can read a room like no one else Yes. To
• 29:45
  understand what is needed to bring that harmony. Yep. And
• 29:49
  that's beautiful. You know, it really is a skill that I didn't
• 29:52
  realize other people didn't have. Mhmm. And it has
• 29:56
  operated at various levels of health for me, but I can match
• 29:59
  energy really well. So when I know that, you know, a space needs something
• 30:03
  more fun, I'm happy to be more fun. When someone wants to come and
• 30:07
  challenge me like an 8, I can come up against that and I'm
• 30:10
  happy to, you know, bring that energy too. So
• 30:14
  all those things have such a beautiful place. When they're done from a
• 30:18
  place where I'm not giving up myself, I'm actually embracing
• 30:22
  my true self. Alright. Let's go on to the next flavor,
• 30:26
  the Improver, also known as the Enneagram 1. I am
• 30:29
  curious what you think what ice cream type they would have. I have a hunch,
• 30:33
  but so let's see where where we land. So my brother is a
• 30:36
  1, and the other day, he came home with a
• 30:40
  locally made ginger mango Thai flavored ice
• 30:43
  cream. And I thought, that's an interesting
• 30:47
  choice. And I think if I could get inside his head for a
• 30:51
  moment, I think he felt like it was very right and good
• 30:54
  to buy locally. So Yes.
• 30:58
  So I don't know I mean, it was really good. Honestly, the ice cream
• 31:02
  was super good, but you could tell It was the right thing to do. The
• 31:06
  right thing to do. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. Let's go with that one.
• 31:10
  Okay. So I was thinking a little bit more simple, but I like your yours
• 31:13
  really exemplifies it. I was thinking of ethically sourced
• 31:17
  Yes. Vanilla bean premium ice cream, the right one.
• 31:20
  That's right. Like, the good one. That's right. Yeah. And where all
• 31:24
  the beans were ethically sourced. Yes. So let's talk about the improver. Yes. What
• 31:28
  gets them going? You know, the improver has a
• 31:32
  real desire for things to be good
• 31:36
  and right. And on the outside, that looks like
• 31:39
  such a noble cause. But from what I've heard
• 31:43
  from ones, internally, it causes such a struggle because there
• 31:47
  is no perfect everything. And so they live in
• 31:51
  this balance between knowing and seeing what
• 31:54
  could be better and then feeling the
• 31:58
  impact of it never getting there. That's such a
• 32:02
  ironic space to live in
• 32:05
  because they are so nobly seeking
• 32:09
  good. And we need that. Absolutely. Right? They're kind of the
• 32:13
  conscience and they're they're kind of the the people that keeps things checking
• 32:17
  balance, so we don't cut corners, that things are on the up and
• 32:20
  up. Absolute he's an accountant, my brother. So Oh, go figure. Yeah.
• 32:24
  You need all your tax rules followed, you go to him. Like,
• 32:28
  he is great at what he does, always making sure
• 32:32
  that things are done properly and well, and it's so beautiful, but
• 32:35
  then beating himself up when they're not quite there. And then
• 32:39
  then you never get there. It's impossible. It's impossible to be
• 32:43
  perfect. Well, I have a very beloved one working on our
• 32:46
  team. And as an improver, I've
• 32:50
  actually because I'm not a one. I have a I have a bit of
• 32:53
  that within me, but I will actually give her a piece of work, a
• 32:57
  writing or a graph or a concept because I'm a high level
• 33:01
  thinker visionary, and I'll ask her, invite
• 33:04
  her in her natural strengths, which she beats herself up on sometimes,
• 33:08
  but her natural strength, I said poke holes at it because I know you want
• 33:12
  what's good. I know you are on mission with me and on our Care
• 33:15
  Impact to to connect and equip the whole church. I know we're going for the
• 33:19
  same North Star. Now poke holes at it. For the love of God,
• 33:23
  poke holes at it because I know you want what's good, what's ethical, what's
• 33:26
  right. Yes. You're gonna challenge me, which I think is intimacy with a
• 33:30
  one, to say, how can we make this better? Totally. And I
• 33:34
  otherwise actually don't see it because I'm the optimist. I'm always
• 33:38
  thinking it'll work itself out in my gut. Yep. Absolutely.
• 33:42
  Well, and I think the desire for perfection is not the problem.
• 33:46
  It's what the definition of perfection is because
• 33:50
  we, as humans, will never be the
• 33:54
  perfect in every area of perfection, and I don't think that that
• 33:58
  is what any of us are seeking. There will be days when you are upset
• 34:01
  about stuff, and there will be days when you don't get along with someone. And
• 34:05
  those aren't imperfect days. That's humanity. That is
• 34:09
  embracing what it is to live on the Earth. So I
• 34:13
  think that their desire is wonderful, and they're wanting
• 34:17
  to look at things and improve things and make things better for
• 34:21
  everybody, but it is an unattainable goal.
• 34:24
  Yeah. Just like ethically sourced vanilla beans. Right? Like, there's a
• 34:28
  point where you can't be a purist in anything because there
• 34:32
  there are some things that will fall short. Yes. And I think if there's any
• 34:36
  encouragement for for any improvers out there to cut yourself
• 34:39
  some slack, you are good. Absolutely. We need you. You're perfect as you
• 34:43
  are. That is perfect. The way you are to
• 34:47
  pursue health is to maybe let that inner self critic
• 34:51
  be a little less critical of self because you just show up.
• 34:54
  Totally. You are already bringing improvement because the way you see the
• 34:58
  world, the way you can bring improvement to the world in a healthy way, oh
• 34:58
  my goodness. We need them. Absolutely. And sometimes they're,
• 35:02
  goodness. We need them. Absolutely. And sometimes, they're their worst.
• 35:05
  Absolutely. They they don't need it from from anybody else. Yes. So
• 35:09
  pat on the back for For the Enneagram ones. That's right. Way to
• 35:13
  go. Okay. Let's go on to the heart feelings. Let's go to the feelings.
• 35:17
  Okay. Time for the twos. The twos or the
• 35:20
  helper or the pleaser or the
• 35:25
  quintessential female in the church, it's really the number
• 35:29
  that wants to be
• 35:33
  whatever anybody wants them to be. They wanna be helping and
• 35:36
  they want to respond to anything you would need,
• 35:40
  whether that is with actual physical things, whether that's
• 35:44
  being a listening ear, whether that is being intuitively there for
• 35:47
  someone even before they even ask it. They wanna be there for you no
• 35:51
  matter what. And they can feel that. Mhmm. I have twos in
• 35:55
  my life. They feel what I need before I even know it, and
• 35:58
  they're, like, right there. There's a coffee on your desk, and you didn't even ask
• 36:02
  for it. I didn't even know I needed it. Maybe my my space outnest has
• 36:05
  said, oh, she needs caffeine, but what ice cream? What
• 36:09
  what would you give them? Okay. So I liked the idea of
• 36:13
  splitting the banana split. Okay. But I think in general,
• 36:17
  twos would share with anybody. I think
• 36:20
  that if they are going for ice cream with you, they're on board
• 36:24
  for whatever you wanna be on board with. They want to share. They
• 36:28
  love sharing, and they want to make sure that you're
• 36:32
  making a comfortable choice for you. And they're probably buying everybody else's ice
• 36:35
  cream and getting to the till before we do. That's right.
• 36:39
  Because they wanna be that caring, thoughtful, one step
• 36:42
  ahead. Yes. Yeah. Like, I'm listening here and
• 36:46
  saying, hey. I know the difference, but how would you differentiate with a
• 36:50
  9 who is a harmonizer who does a lot of reading the
• 36:53
  room. Yes. What would you say a 2 is distinct in? I think
• 36:57
  it comes down to their motivation. So nines are
• 37:01
  really motivated to keep the inner peace inside them
• 37:05
  looking good. So I'm looking for I shouldn't say looking good, but,
• 37:09
  Resolving the tension. Yes. Keeping all tension neutral.
• 37:13
  So I'm reading the room for ways that people
• 37:16
  might be unhappy with each other and with me. Okay. I think
• 37:20
  twos are definitely trying to make sure that
• 37:24
  they're good with other people. So they really wanna make sure
• 37:28
  that when they're reading the room, they're reading from a
• 37:31
  different perspective. They're reading more the emotions of the room, and they're
• 37:35
  reading to make sure that whatever energy is coming their way is
• 37:39
  really positive, and people like them, and people want to be in their
• 37:43
  space with them. Does that make sense? Yeah. And a little bit of nuance. I
• 37:46
  appreciate you, identifying that. And is there anything
• 37:50
  that's in their pursuit of helping others and
• 37:53
  making everybody in more a positive way and helping them in
• 37:57
  their distress or even just before they even know they have any needs,
• 38:01
  is there anything that they lose within themselves in
• 38:05
  their helping? Well, I think twos and nines are interesting.
• 38:08
  A twos maybe more than nines. They project their feelings and
• 38:12
  emotions out rather than accepting
• 38:15
  how they might be feeling. So I think that
• 38:19
  twos do an awesome job of reading people's emotions,
• 38:23
  but then miss their own in some respects. And so what happens
• 38:27
  when you miss your own emotions? There's such a danger
• 38:31
  when when you're so good at reading other people, you
• 38:34
  really want that to be reversed. It's that
• 38:38
  classic, I'm gonna do the things that I hope will one day come back to
• 38:41
  me. I could see some resentment building. Yeah. Little bit like a Mary and
• 38:45
  Martha dynamic of, like, I'm working here in the kitchen. What what are you
• 38:49
  doing? Why aren't you seeing all the dishes that need to be done? And why
• 38:53
  aren't you cooking? And why didn't you grab the spice from the market? Yes. And
• 38:56
  some twos are gonna be better at verbalizing that than others. Uh-huh. So I
• 38:59
  think resentment is probably putting the nail on the hammer there.
• 39:03
  Yeah. I know I felt that at times too where I'm sensing things from people,
• 39:07
  and there isn't that return. Giving, giving, giving. That. Yep.
• 39:11
  Because everyone in all our different uniquenesses, we
• 39:14
  get tired. Right? Where we need each other. We're not Absolutely. Be all, end
• 39:18
  alls. Well, and it I think the two's growth path is
• 39:22
  understanding that you might be helping beyond what anybody's
• 39:25
  been asking for or anything. And if you're not prepared to give
• 39:29
  in a neutral way because you see a need and you wanna help, it
• 39:33
  ends up turning into resentment before you can fully realize it because
• 39:37
  it isn't being returned to you. So it could be a strings attached giving Absolutely.
• 39:41
  If it's not in check. Yes. Yeah. No. That's good. And so where
• 39:45
  would they shine in community as a helper? Where don't they
• 39:49
  shine maybe is the question? Because who doesn't love a helper? And that
• 39:52
  can actually feed them into probably burnout. Yes. I think that the
• 39:56
  twos shine in so many areas. They're so
• 40:00
  willing to jump in and help. They're willing to listen, and they're
• 40:03
  willing to give it that extra thought to get
• 40:07
  that movement going to help somebody who really needs it. But I think
• 40:11
  when they finally release themselves from that and when they
• 40:15
  settle into the fact that in a similar way to the nines, they
• 40:18
  have needs too, and it gives other people a gift to allow
• 40:22
  that need to be met, that wholeness that we
• 40:26
  really need where I'm a whole person with things that are good and things that
• 40:29
  are bad, and I need to allow all those things to be at work
• 40:33
  in order for a community to function
• 40:37
  as a community needs to function. Yeah. And I'm looking
• 40:41
  forward to doing this episode. I've invited my friend back, and and those of you
• 40:45
  that have been following along, Michael Hrenick. Doctor Michael, he's gonna be
• 40:48
  coming back. He's a 2. Yay. He he's a helper, and a lot
• 40:52
  of psychotherapists are naturally bent to that. And and, of
• 40:56
  course, you have to work through some healing and growth in that so you can
• 40:59
  do it in a sustainable way, but we're gonna get into that and hear his
• 41:03
  story as a psychotherapist doing amazing things. Yeah. Well, they
• 41:06
  really have space for emotions, which is a really
• 41:10
  a space that is lacking in some communities. Emotions have a
• 41:14
  really healthy space, all of them, and twos are really
• 41:18
  prepared to embrace them. And sometimes in the church, particular, we don't
• 41:21
  necessarily have space for emotions. We have thinking and
• 41:25
  doctrines. We may have have sort of the
• 41:28
  ways we do things, but feelings, why don't we do that?
• 41:32
  Maybe it's a little more dangerous. Maybe it's not controlled, or maybe we have to
• 41:36
  go deep. Right. And those are hard things. So we do need good people
• 41:39
  that can really tap into their their inner emotions.
• 41:43
  Okay. Moving on to the Achiever, also known as Enneagram 3.
• 41:47
  Let's talk about that. What ice cream would you give the Achiever?
• 41:50
  Well, I believe you have neon rainbow down here,
• 41:54
  and I I would agree with that, but I
• 41:58
  kinda think the 3 is gonna go for whatever
• 42:01
  they believe the best one is. So I'm kinda
• 42:05
  thinking, like, the really big, everything's in
• 42:09
  it, it's probably better than other people's. Maybe it's the,
• 42:12
  you know, the fancy, but not in, like, a fancy way. Conversation starter ice
• 42:16
  cream? Yes. I agree. Yeah. The conversation starter ice cream, whatever is
• 42:20
  in the big pineapple or in the big whatever Yes. Go big or
• 42:24
  go home. Okay. So people notice that I ordered this. That's
• 42:28
  great. This is how we do community. That's right. Okay. So let's
• 42:31
  let's go in there. I like this. This is a good starting point for the
• 42:34
  achiever. Tell me a little bit more. So the achiever
• 42:37
  is the person you call when you need to get all
• 42:41
  kinds of things done. They will absolutely come and do
• 42:44
  everything with you. They're hard workers. They're super hard workers,
• 42:48
  likely to their detriment where they will just work and work and work and work
• 42:52
  and work and work. So it's interesting the ways
• 42:55
  that different Enneagram numbers lean into their strengths,
• 42:59
  like, to work and work and work to the point where
• 43:03
  you kind of missed the relationships or the
• 43:06
  emotions or the things that kind of were happening along the way.
• 43:10
  And possibly to the detriment of the community moving
• 43:14
  forward to their own achievements, possibly. Well
• 43:18
  and I think what the 3 really really needs to
• 43:21
  understand is that we like them just the way they are. Maybe
• 43:25
  that's the message for the ones and the threes and everybody out there is
• 43:28
  you don't need to keep doing more and trying more and being the
• 43:32
  best at things and competing and doing all those things You are enough. Just as
• 43:36
  you just as you is great. And I think when
• 43:39
  Enneagram threes really choose to
• 43:43
  just be themselves and choose to embrace
• 43:47
  whatever they have accomplished at that
• 43:51
  point in their life, I think it's a really beautiful thing. Yeah. And I
• 43:55
  think we will recognize the achievers, the the
• 43:58
  Enneagram threes in a church sanctuary. They often
• 44:02
  light up the room. They light up the stage. They they demand the the control,
• 44:06
  not because they're like, hey. Listen to me. Yep. But they're charismatic.
• 44:10
  Absolutely. They're funny. They're funny. You better be around them. Absolutely.
• 44:14
  They're they're the people in the crowd that everybody wants to hear the story from.
• 44:17
  They demand control, not with trying to so much as they just
• 44:21
  demand control, and they're okay with the spotlight,
• 44:25
  and there's a place for that. So where do they shine in in community?
• 44:29
  Where do you see they shining best in community? Definitely, as leaders,
• 44:33
  they love to, like what you said, be kind of in
• 44:37
  the spotlight or the one that's, like, pumping everybody's tires.
• 44:41
  Right? Like, the one that's kinda going, of course, we can do it. Let's do
• 44:44
  it. Like, they're really outgoing, really outgoing and
• 44:48
  wanting to make things look like we're
• 44:52
  moving in the right direction, like, positive and encouraging. Like that good coach
• 44:56
  on the sideline just like, you got this. You know? Absolutely. Carrying
• 44:59
  out of that mindset of of an achiever, what are some of the
• 45:03
  challenges that one might face if you have that tendency?
• 45:07
  I think the challenge is in simply slowing down. Like, I think
• 45:11
  that it is so ingrained in them to,
• 45:14
  like, move on to the next thing even when the thing hasn't
• 45:18
  completely been accomplished or been done to the best of your ability.
• 45:22
  You just wanna keep on going because you're just kind of seeking
• 45:25
  that next similar to the sevens, I guess, when we eventually
• 45:29
  get there. But I think when the achiever chooses to slow
• 45:33
  down and either embrace
• 45:36
  what other people are bringing to the table as far as leadership and as
• 45:40
  far as excitement and they choose to
• 45:44
  be a partner in that instead of the one that
• 45:47
  is seeking to be at the top of that pyramid, I think that there is
• 45:51
  some beauty in what that will become.
• 45:55
  So what I'm hearing, their enoughness is not always to be in the
• 45:59
  spotlight, but to lead with others for the greater
• 46:02
  good and that they are enough, that they will naturally
• 46:06
  attract people around them. And when you were talking about the work, work,
• 46:10
  work, I actually identify a lot with that. Maybe it's my
• 46:14
  upbringing, my nurture, and as the minute I my husband calls me a Clydesdale. I
• 46:18
  just like to work, work, work. Yep. But one of the things that I found
• 46:21
  when I did some deeper work and what keeps me as more of a
• 46:24
  challenger by default, not that I don't have some of these
• 46:27
  achiever, tendencies within me, is that my motivation for
• 46:31
  work comes from a different place. So that's again, we're coming back
• 46:35
  to why we use this as a tool. Yep. And it's not just the
• 46:38
  external what we see that person, so that's why we can't typecast somebody.
• 46:42
  I love to work, work, work, but it comes more out of a
• 46:46
  different place of changing systems and seeing a vision. My
• 46:50
  gut says there's something here that needs to be discovered, and I don't really care
• 46:53
  if people see me or not, and I can often be an outlier and not
• 46:57
  matter. It doesn't matter if people see me right or wrong. Right.
• 47:01
  It's just that I just know in my gut, we've gotta move forward. Do I
• 47:05
  wanna lead others? Absolutely. Do do I often bring a lot of energy
• 47:09
  in the room? People often say I do. However, I'm not
• 47:12
  energized by being liked. Right. And I think with the
• 47:16
  3, there's obviously a a motivation to
• 47:20
  be seen as a certain type of person, and
• 47:24
  I don't think that that is bad. I
• 47:27
  actually think that probably a lot of us, if we dug deep down, we would
• 47:31
  have a similar motivation. So I think what I would
• 47:35
  wish for Enneagram threes that are in community is that they
• 47:39
  would stop with that exterior need for
• 47:42
  people to kind of look at them a certain way and that they would just
• 47:46
  look at themselves and go, I'm good just as I am, and I'm good.
• 47:50
  I choose me, and I choose my own
• 47:53
  interests instead of trying to shape myself to
• 47:57
  become what I say. Your own persona. That's what I think other
• 48:01
  people want from me. And and god wants us to be our authentic full selves.
• 48:04
  Yep. Right? And that's part of that self discovery and being okay
• 48:08
  with being just who we are, not the persona that we idolize or
• 48:12
  idealize within our minds that would be the better Christian or
• 48:16
  the better community worker or the better neighbor. This is the the
• 48:20
  continuous theme through all of these things. Right? Is this idea
• 48:24
  that whatever you're doing to try and become the person you think everybody wants
• 48:27
  you to be isn't what we're looking for. We're looking for you to
• 48:31
  fully embody you, even the parts of you that don't feel
• 48:35
  great. Right. Because the whole picture and the whole
• 48:38
  puzzle, whatever metaphor you wanna talk about within a
• 48:42
  community, is that if you're hiding parts of you, we
• 48:46
  don't get it all. Mhmm. We need all the parts. We
• 48:49
  need all the parts that you don't like, that you do like, all the parts
• 48:53
  you're pretending don't exist in order for that picture to look complete.
• 48:57
  So good. Because I've experienced that for myself. As I've been
• 49:01
  okay with my enoughness and I'm becoming okay. We're
• 49:04
  never a a finished product. Right? But if I bring my whole
• 49:08
  self, the good, bad, and the ugly, and just say this is who I am,
• 49:11
  you know what I notice? We create safety to be
• 49:15
  ourselves and to say, you are enough. I am enough, and we accept
• 49:19
  the good, the bad, the things that we are not proud of, but we
• 49:23
  give permission for people to be themselves and that's where
• 49:26
  community really happens. Yep. Absolutely. This isn't a tool
• 49:30
  we're describing for self improvement solely that, like, the
• 49:34
  the latter success to to improve our self help It will not feel like
• 49:38
  that. It will not feel that. In fact, it just brings like, oh, let's just
• 49:41
  rip that away. Let's take off the mask, and let's just be who God created
• 49:45
  us again. That's beautiful. Let's go on to the next one here,
• 49:49
  number 4, which we've also lovingly called the creative.
• 49:52
  Yes. What kind of ice cream would you give to the the
• 49:56
  creative number fours? I love my number fours too. I think the
• 49:59
  creative is always thinking about things a little differently.
• 50:03
  They're not wanting to just pick the vanilla and the chocolate,
• 50:07
  not even the twist. That's a little too common. I think they're really
• 50:11
  wanting something different, something that
• 50:14
  is a new thing to try and something that
• 50:18
  is different than what everybody else is gonna try.
• 50:21
  And probably very feeling oriented. I'm feeling this.
• 50:25
  You know where where I went to when I I thought of the 4, the
• 50:29
  creative? I'm thinking there's no way but going to Marble
• 50:33
  Slab with them. This isn't an endorsement unless Marble Slab wants to endorse
• 50:36
  us and be a sponsor, but but they
• 50:40
  wanted to create the one not on the picture there, but one that
• 50:44
  they're feeling, that nuance of cherries and chocolate and
• 50:47
  some sprinkles because they're in that mood Absolutely. And they're
• 50:51
  gonna go there. Yeah. I I feel like it is maybe mood
• 50:54
  based. Yes. It's like what I'm feeling in the moment. Yes. And
• 50:58
  don't try and put me in a box because I might not feel that way
• 51:01
  the next time you see me. That's right. It's not always the same each
• 51:04
  time. Right? Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. No. I love the 4. Okay. So so let's talk
• 51:08
  a little bit more about the creative. They have deep moods and
• 51:12
  feelings. They're often very artistic. Mhmm. Tell me more.
• 51:16
  I think the fours, if I can be so bold as to say, they
• 51:19
  might be the most misunderstood, either as a North
• 51:23
  American culture or a church culture or however wherever we have
• 51:27
  grown up in society at this point, really deep feelings feel
• 51:31
  off limits. And so a 4
• 51:35
  is the perfect example of that full spectrum.
• 51:38
  Mhmm. They feel them all. They
• 51:43
  experience the world through that lens. Not
• 51:46
  only do they feel it themselves, they're empaths,
• 51:50
  so they feel everybody else's. Absolutely. So a
• 51:54
  4 is misunderstood in a lot of ways in the way that we
• 51:58
  prop up thinking as being the most beneficial way of viewing the
• 52:02
  world and of problem solving. And the
• 52:05
  emotion and the the time it takes to
• 52:09
  experience emotion, I think, is really
• 52:12
  not valued the same way. And so
• 52:16
  while they say fours typically do struggle with feeling connected
• 52:20
  to people and feeling really understood, and that creates a lot of frustration,
• 52:24
  I think that some of their complaint is true, is that we
• 52:28
  really don't totally get feelings. I mean, as someone who
• 52:31
  struggles to nail down how they're feeling on a regular basis, I mean, I'm
• 52:35
  sitting with my feelings wheel trying to, like,
• 52:39
  figure it out. Sad. You know? Could be add some language. They will have that
• 52:42
  language. Think that they are just such an invaluable
• 52:46
  resource as far as, you know, sitting
• 52:50
  with somebody who needs to feel it welcoming
• 52:53
  Right. The time it takes, if I can say the unproductivity
• 52:58
  of the human experience that is feelings. Right.
• 53:01
  I don't take that time all the time. It's such a gift that
• 53:05
  they offer to a community that I think
• 53:09
  is undervalued. And maybe undervalued in the
• 53:13
  church community often too where we don't necessarily wanna
• 53:16
  feel the dark feelings because they are okay with dark feelings, deep dark
• 53:20
  feelings. Those dark clouds, they're okay to go with that,
• 53:24
  and they can often be the people that people feel safe with
• 53:27
  with depression, with hard feelings, with doubts,
• 53:31
  insecurities. They are the empaths in the room that people feel
• 53:35
  safe with that because they're willing to go there, and we can't lead people where
• 53:38
  we're not willing to go ourselves. And in the church, those are the ones we
• 53:42
  need in the community. Those are the ones we need to shine. We need to
• 53:45
  celebrate that rather than, like, I I don't wanna deal with
• 53:49
  those feelings. Absolutely. And I I think it does, like, for anybody who
• 53:53
  feels vulnerable around their feelings. Yeah. It is tricky,
• 53:56
  but they'll go to a 4. Go to a 4, and, I
• 54:00
  mean, they are so open to that. They are
• 54:04
  so open to sitting with you in your emotions. And
• 54:08
  when you were talking earlier about setting the example for yourself,
• 54:11
  they do that. They are already feeling and they are
• 54:15
  welcoming you into their feelings, so accept it. Accept
• 54:19
  that offer and jump in with them because there
• 54:23
  is no better Enneagram type to
• 54:26
  really embrace what that looks like. Well, I have 2
• 54:29
  Enneagram fours creatives that are gonna be coming on to the
• 54:33
  episode for I can't wait to introduce our guests, giving their
• 54:37
  experiences, their stories. It's rich, And they're just dear
• 54:40
  souls. Wonderful. I can't wait for those episodes. And if I can
• 54:44
  also say there is actually an Enneagram for, subtype,
• 54:48
  which we will go into that feels the feelings,
• 54:51
  but struggles to have those
• 54:55
  externalized. Mhmm. So if you know inside that you are a
• 54:59
  deep feeler, but you're more you look more like a 3. You you get
• 55:03
  work done. You're a really hard worker, and you are more task oriented. Mhmm.
• 55:06
  There may be some research in there for you because it isn't
• 55:10
  just as black and white as I'm a feeler. I must be a 4.
• 55:14
  Right. There might be more to it. And, actually, there's subtypes and and all of
• 55:18
  that. People can do their their own work, and they can look in the show
• 55:21
  notes for for some links that could lead them on this path of discovery. Yep.
• 55:25
  There's nuances for everything. Yes. And it's good to go
• 55:28
  there. Alright. So we've gone through the feelings. Let's go to the head.
• 55:32
  Those are the last three that we haven't covered, the last three flavors.
• 55:36
  Talk to me about the head or thinking types. Okay.
• 55:40
  So the head and thinking types are really
• 55:43
  prone to strategy and really prone
• 55:47
  to leading with their knowledge. So
• 55:51
  that can bring about all kinds of things. When you're really stuck in your mind,
• 55:54
  you kinda forget about your body and your feelings. So
• 55:58
  I've heard the phrase for certain head types. I like to
• 56:02
  think my feelings. That's not the same thing.
• 56:06
  So that I mean, maybe some of these types should hang out with force. I
• 56:09
  don't know. The the next type is the
• 56:13
  number 5, the investigator. Yep. Let's talk what does
• 56:17
  an investigator look like? Let's start with this. What kind of ice cream would
• 56:21
  the investigator be prone to, would you say?
• 56:25
  So I was thinking there are probably investigators
• 56:28
  out there that aren't interested in dessert, that are,
• 56:32
  like they've researched it and they've had their allotted calories for the
• 56:36
  day, and they're probably good. So I don't know that investigators
• 56:40
  are always on board for that. Okay. That would be my thought. Well, I was
• 56:44
  thinking they'd probably first go on consumer reports and look at the best
• 56:47
  quality ratings scientifically proven in the lab for the
• 56:51
  best quality ice cream and ratings. So whether it's Haagen
• 56:55
  Dazs or whatever the the different kind of brands out there, they're
• 56:58
  gonna do the investigative work first. The research. The research.
• 57:02
  Even what ice cream shop is the best That's right. Based on reviews
• 57:06
  Based on reviews or their own experience. Their own experience. Yeah. Yeah. They're
• 57:10
  gonna do the research. Yep. So when they lead the ice cream bandwagon,
• 57:14
  you know they they've researched it. They've googled it. They've done the work. That's
• 57:18
  right. It's not a whim. It will never be a whim. No. You know what
• 57:21
  you know. Yes. So so let's go a little bit more deeper into the investigator.
• 57:26
  What makes them tick? So the investigator,
• 57:29
  I find really fascinating. I actually don't have a
• 57:33
  lot of investigators in my life, and I think that
• 57:37
  probably investigators often like to keep to themselves. They
• 57:40
  love to research. They love knowledge. They love to just know as much
• 57:44
  as possible about a subject area to the point where
• 57:48
  I've heard fives kind of say, it would
• 57:51
  scare me if if you ask me a question I didn't know the answer to
• 57:54
  it. Right. So if I'm claiming I know something about a subject
• 57:57
  area and you ask me a question that I can't answer, that
• 58:01
  may be my greatest fear. That may be the thing that's gonna unravel me.
• 58:05
  So I would imagine, though, at least to the fives in my knowledge, in
• 58:09
  my circles, that rather than pouncing them with an
• 58:13
  idea or saying, hey. Let's do this in the community. Let's plant the
• 58:16
  seed. Let them do the research. They're gonna actually come back with a a better,
• 58:20
  more understood, informed way of moving
• 58:24
  forward in the community or within the church. They're they're gonna do their
• 58:27
  research. Again, still on board for the North Star if you're
• 58:31
  friends with them or you're you're working together, but they're gonna do the work.
• 58:35
  They're not gonna just say things on a whim to be liked No. You can
• 58:38
  trust them. To be known Absolutely. Or anything else, but they they really
• 58:42
  seek knowledge and wisdom. Yes. I love that. Absolutely.
• 58:46
  I think they're also the number that is
• 58:49
  going to show us how to have healthy boundaries.
• 58:53
  Mhmm. I think a 5 is really good
• 58:57
  at knowing where their limits are. Mhmm. And that can be
• 59:00
  to the detriment of the people that are with them that wanna spend more time
• 59:04
  with them, but the 5 has kind of reached their limit. Yeah. But I think
• 59:07
  It's a little factual. Like, this is it. And I think as someone who grew
• 59:11
  up in a context where boundaries were we weren't sure if we were supposed to
• 59:15
  have them or not, I think a 5 is able to
• 59:19
  say, I think I've hit my limit, and I'm gonna go home now. I need
• 59:22
  some alone time. I could see where an investigator would be hard to be
• 59:25
  seen as caring, but it comes across as caring because
• 59:29
  it's maybe not as relational as some. Right. And I'm not saying that
• 59:33
  they're introverts necessarily. They often are. Or that they
• 59:37
  don't like people. They mostly do. However, they could be misunderstood
• 59:40
  I
• 59:45
  community? Well, I think, actually, fives are so interesting
• 59:49
  because, from what I've heard, they have very clearly defined
• 59:52
  circles. And I think for a lot of us, we feel so
• 59:57
  pressured to maintain very random
• 1:00:01
  social connections. Mhmm. I mean, that's fine, but I don't
• 1:00:04
  know that that's where those deep connections really come from. And
• 1:00:08
  fives really give us the example of
• 1:00:12
  knowing who the few people that you actually have time for, and you
• 1:00:15
  can really develop those deep connections with, and they
• 1:00:19
  prioritize the people that are in their circle.
• 1:00:23
  I had a staff member one summer work with us, and she was
• 1:00:27
  investigator at 5, and we had her in the perfect job of research.
• 1:00:31
  She lit up when she could be by herself. We just gave her a task,
• 1:00:35
  and she could do a spreadsheet and come up with all the facts and numbers.
• 1:00:38
  She was not swayed by all the nuances that we might
• 1:00:43
  get the wrong idea from. She could cut through some of the facades
• 1:00:46
  of things and just look for the facts, and she was sort of like a
• 1:00:49
  gold digger. Right. Finding the gold that we needed that was
• 1:00:53
  actually relevant, and she was less subjective
• 1:00:57
  and more objective. And we needed objectivity when we're doing our
• 1:01:01
  research. And so on its own, it may not bring on
• 1:01:04
  all the complexities that we were looking at, but it is such a valuable
• 1:01:08
  piece to a community, to a work team, to a church when we have
• 1:01:12
  those persons in community, like all the numbers. I
• 1:01:16
  mean, speaking again about, like, the way we've been socialized, I mean,
• 1:01:19
  church is a social space. Communities are hugely social
• 1:01:23
  spaces. That isn't for everybody, and that isn't the
• 1:01:26
  best way to do everything. Right. So the idea that you actually
• 1:01:30
  value alone time and that you need alone time, we all do. It's
• 1:01:34
  just that there's such a pressure to avoid it
• 1:01:38
  or a pressure to seek people out to
• 1:01:42
  fill something that, you know, might be actually better filled when you're
• 1:01:45
  alone. Right. Spending some time with your own thoughts and doing some reflection.
• 1:01:49
  Yeah. Alone time, even Jesus had alone time. That's right. And it's okay.
• 1:01:53
  Right? That's right. He he had that balance of when he was with people and
• 1:01:56
  when he wasn't. Yeah. That's right. Let's go on to the next one, the loyalist,
• 1:02:00
  also known as the Enneagram number 6. Oh, I love the sixes
• 1:02:04
  in my life. They are the salt and pepper to to my
• 1:02:07
  day because I don't think like them at all, and but I love them dearly,
• 1:02:11
  and I need them. I was thinking a favorite ice cream for the
• 1:02:15
  loyalist would be gluten free, dairy free,
• 1:02:18
  nut free frozen treat, because they're uber
• 1:02:22
  cautious. I would the the people in my life, they wanna make sure that
• 1:02:25
  nothing sets anybody off, themselves or others, so they're
• 1:02:29
  gonna be on the cautionary side to make sure the whole
• 1:02:33
  group is safe. They keep people alive. Absolutely.
• 1:02:37
  What kind of ice cream would you give the loyalist? Well, I was thinking
• 1:02:41
  about my friend who's a loyalist,
• 1:02:44
  and I think that whatever she would choose, it would be very a very
• 1:02:48
  thoughtful choice. She will not be choosing something
• 1:02:51
  just because, and she will not be choosing something because everybody else is doing
• 1:02:55
  it. I actually think she puts a lot of effort into
• 1:02:58
  her ice cream choices.
• 1:03:02
  They do a lot of thinking and maybe overthinking. Yes. Yeah. I
• 1:03:06
  have you ever traveled with a with a loyalist? Not
• 1:03:10
  recently. They think of everything. They've got hangers. Perfect. I you
• 1:03:13
  know who I'm talking about out there. They they have an
• 1:03:17
  iron. They've got all the things in case of emergency.
• 1:03:21
  They're extra uber prepared, not only for them, but for everybody in
• 1:03:24
  Literally everybody else. Yeah. Yeah. They've thought of it. They've thought of
• 1:03:28
  the what ifs. Yes. And they're always the ones with the checklist
• 1:03:32
  and and able to think project ahead. To me, it's catastrophizing,
• 1:03:36
  but to them, they're saving my life, and both are true. You
• 1:03:40
  never know. That's right. So tell me a little bit. What do we mean by
• 1:03:43
  loyalist? The loyalist means that
• 1:03:47
  they really, really value the closest that relationship brings
• 1:03:51
  and that they I guess, to a fault in that they're
• 1:03:55
  incredibly connected to people even when that connection has
• 1:03:59
  shifted. So I think the loyalist is
• 1:04:03
  one of those people that their secret motivation is to keep themselves safe
• 1:04:07
  and secure. But when it's in its health,
• 1:04:10
  it's this beautiful relationship
• 1:04:14
  where they're continually
• 1:04:17
  working towards the connection. And I think it's a
• 1:04:21
  beautiful thing. So where would the loyalist shine in community? Where are
• 1:04:25
  they at their greatest way of I I know I'm overgeneralizing, but where
• 1:04:28
  do you see a loyalist, a number 6, shine
• 1:04:32
  in a community context? I think the loyalist
• 1:04:36
  has so many places where they shine in a community. They're working
• 1:04:40
  for the common good, whether that is from a place of
• 1:04:43
  fear or preparation. I mean, they're always working.
• 1:04:47
  I think they're either in their mind or otherwise. They're always working towards
• 1:04:51
  the ways that the whole community can feel safe. Physically,
• 1:04:55
  emotionally, all the things. Always the gap filler. Yes. They can always see
• 1:04:59
  those spots. Absolutely. Different than the helper. Yeah. But in a in a way, they
• 1:05:03
  can project what could happen, and they're already there with the umbrella because
• 1:05:07
  they they pack that for you. That's right. They pack that already. Yes.
• 1:05:12
  This is another number where one of the subtypes is quite
• 1:05:15
  different. Mhmm. So the 6 kind of exemplifies
• 1:05:19
  in their subtypes those fear responses. So fight,
• 1:05:23
  flight, fawn. Yep. So if you are somebody
• 1:05:26
  who isn't totally sure if this maybe fits for you, I would do
• 1:05:30
  a little bit more research into it because there is a subtype of the
• 1:05:34
  6 that looks a lot 8 ish Uh-huh. Where they go up against the
• 1:05:38
  authorities, and they kind of respond to that fear in
• 1:05:41
  a completely different way than what you would expect. Yeah. No. That's
• 1:05:45
  a good place to do a bit of research. Yeah. Well, we love our
• 1:05:49
  loyalists. We need them. So grateful. And we're finally to
• 1:05:52
  our last flavor, our natural
• 1:05:56
  flavor. The enthusiast, also known as the Enneagram
• 1:06:00
  7, what ice cream would you give the enthusiast? This is gonna be a fun
• 1:06:03
  one, I think. I think the enthusiast picks a different ice
• 1:06:07
  cream every single time that they go for ice cream. Because that would be fun.
• 1:06:10
  Yes. I think they're always trying something new every single
• 1:06:14
  time. And they're probably always adding whipped cream and sprinkles Maybe.
• 1:06:18
  Because that would always be fun. My dad get too much. Is an enthusiast,
• 1:06:22
  and he always puts sprinkles on everything.
• 1:06:27
  Oh, so there we go. Yes. No. He can never have too much fun. That's
• 1:06:30
  right. So whatever you have that is fun, probably like a
• 1:06:34
  rainbow ice cream or bubble gum or, like Bubble gum was my next
• 1:06:38
  thought. You know? Like, whatever would be fun. Yes. They're not the
• 1:06:42
  Bordeaux cherries. No. And they're not getting the cookies and cream.
• 1:06:45
  No. Those are too too too boring. It's too boring. Yes. Too
• 1:06:49
  predictable. Not the vanilla. No. Yeah. It'll be fun.
• 1:06:52
  It'll have whipped cream, sprinkles, and whatever else you throw. Gummy
• 1:06:56
  worms. Yeah. Gummy worms would be great, I think. Yeah. Yeah. A little pop of
• 1:06:59
  flavor. Yeah. The more, the better. That's right. Gonna douse it. They're probably gonna
• 1:07:03
  have more toppings than ice cream. So they're at the
• 1:07:07
  9 Sunday bar, and they took all the toppings.
• 1:07:11
  That's right. That are that are an option. And they are the life of the
• 1:07:14
  party. Let's talk about we all need the enthusiasts in our life. But
• 1:07:18
  Absolutely. What else can you tell us about them? The enthusiast is,
• 1:07:22
  like, really fun, like what we've been saying. They are the first
• 1:07:25
  person up for an adventure. I mean, yes, they're avoiding some of the
• 1:07:29
  darker sad things, but sometimes we need that. They wanna just
• 1:07:33
  embrace life. I think it's a beautiful thing. They just want to
• 1:07:37
  see what life can offer and try as many things as they
• 1:07:41
  possibly can. And I know sevens in my life
• 1:07:44
  that are the innovators. They see what's
• 1:07:48
  possible beyond what other people are seeing, what's not.
• 1:07:52
  They're innovators often. I'm not saying everybody, but they they're entrepreneurs.
• 1:07:55
  They're the dreamers. Absolutely. My my dad has a dream and then he
• 1:07:59
  just does it. It isn't even a question of whether it's gonna happen.
• 1:08:03
  He wanted to build a performing arts studio, so he did.
• 1:08:07
  He just did it. Because my dog. Exactly. And they can make it
• 1:08:10
  happen. Yeah. Well, I have a very special guest coming on for this one.
• 1:08:14
  I can't wait to introduce them to everybody. He's actually the creator,
• 1:08:18
  Adrian Lewis. He's the creator of the care portal, the the technology that
• 1:08:22
  we are using across Canada to connect children and
• 1:08:25
  families in hard places with the community and to create that
• 1:08:29
  ecosystem. He's a dreamer. He's a smart guy, and he lights
• 1:08:33
  up the room. Yes. So much fun. Now I can see so many positive
• 1:08:36
  things. Can there possibly be anything that is challenging
• 1:08:41
  for the enthusiast when they're interacting with
• 1:08:44
  community? Well, I think that the enthusiast, because of their
• 1:08:48
  need to do the next, next, next next next next is they leave a
• 1:08:52
  little bit of undone in their wake. And so people around. They
• 1:08:56
  yeah. You do. And I think the dreamer is only
• 1:09:00
  as good as how they create that dream and make that dream a
• 1:09:03
  reality. So the living in the clouds is
• 1:09:07
  is a part of the puzzle, but it isn't the complete
• 1:09:11
  picture of what's going on. So I think for a 7,
• 1:09:14
  if they can embrace the fact that there
• 1:09:18
  are other parts of the human experience that are an adventure
• 1:09:22
  even though they feel icky sometimes to start them, I think that
• 1:09:26
  is the key for moving those adventurers forward is for
• 1:09:29
  them to start embracing the inner world that is actually an adventure
• 1:09:33
  in a completely different direction. That's a hard vulnerable space
• 1:09:37
  for for a 7. Yep. But if that was reframed,
• 1:09:41
  if that was their adventure that they were tackling, if they could know
• 1:09:45
  that their inner world isn't gonna kill them and their inner world isn't
• 1:09:48
  gonna keep them in that darkness forever, that the dreams are still
• 1:09:52
  happening and that the whole experience of life isn't
• 1:09:56
  going away just because they're taking a moment to look at something else.
• 1:10:00
  Yeah. I think there's just so much beauty in the
• 1:10:03
  full experience. Yeah. No. I can take a lot out of that because while I'm
• 1:10:07
  a double dark chocolate ice cream lover Yes. I dip my spoon a
• 1:10:11
  lot into the sprinkles. I I lean heavily towards the
• 1:10:14
  7, the enthusiast. I see what's possible, but
• 1:10:18
  then those are the things that I've been learning about myself to listen
• 1:10:22
  in, to lean into the others around us, to understand the
• 1:10:25
  realities, but also bring that enthusiasm to others because they need my
• 1:10:29
  optimism as well. Yeah. Well and, I mean, it's that that double
• 1:10:32
  edged sword again where Mhmm. The dreams aren't gonna
• 1:10:36
  continue to look as dreamy when you haven't anchored them
• 1:10:40
  in that humanity. Like, there is that need for that center
• 1:10:44
  Mhmm. In order for those dreams to grow even bigger.
• 1:10:48
  Wow. Yeah. I think it's that both and system.
• 1:10:52
  Well, we've covered all of the flavors. Good job, Tamara. I'm
• 1:10:56
  so excited that you are launching this enneagram aware
• 1:11:00
  dotca is the website, so I'm gonna encourage people to to go to
• 1:11:03
  your website. And I know you're diving deep into,
• 1:11:08
  more studies, and you're gonna develop the services that you're doing. I'm
• 1:11:11
  just so excited for you. Thank you. And I'm so appreciative of the work you
• 1:11:15
  you've done here with us today, and you've really set the stage for
• 1:11:19
  the upcoming nine episodes. I'm so excited for what we're gonna learn
• 1:11:23
  through people's stories. Oh, that's gonna be awesome. I can't wait to hear the rest
• 1:11:26
  of the episodes. I think we should go have ice cream. I
• 1:11:33
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• 1:11:36
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• 1:11:40
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• 1:11:44
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• 1:11:47
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• 1:11:51
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• 1:11:58
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• 1:12:03
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• 1:12:06
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• 1:12:10
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