Latest / The Bigger Stage w/ Matt Stone / The Question We All Should Be Asking About AI and Work | Al Dea on Trust, Leadership & the Human Future
Transcript
- BBR Show Pre-Launch Convo: Al Dea === Matt Stone: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Building Business Relationships Show. I'm Matt Stone, and before we officially launch, we are exploring what matters most when it comes to relationships in business. Matt Stone: These early episodes are about testing ideas, learning from fantastic guests, and hearing what you think belongs in the conversation. So listen in, share your thoughts and help shape what this show becomes. And joining me today is my friend, colleague, and a great practitioner and person Al Dea. Al Dea: Matt, it's always great to chat with you and, and great to be here. Matt Stone: I need to talk about you for just a minute so I know it might be uncomfortable to sit here and listen to me talk about you, but just, just hang out. I know you're a humble guy, but Al has no reason to be humble. He's got almost 40,000 followers on LinkedIn. Matt Stone: He's the host of the amazing and relevant and always fresh podcast called The Edge of Work, where he's got thousands and thousands of downloads. I don't even know what your total numbers are, but he talks to some really great guests about the future of work, the edge of work, leadership, all things work and leadership. Matt Stone: How's that [00:01:00] for a description? Al Dea: It feels like I need to hire you as my hype man is, was what it sounds like. Matt, that was great. Matt Stone: This is actually just an interview to see if you'll hire me to be your hype man. I'll give you my rates afterward. But, Matt Stone: but in addition to that, companies hire Al to help develop their leaders and he does a great job at it. He's also a featured keynote speaker at conferences around the country, on topics like future of work and all things leadership. Matt Stone: So of course I had to ask Al to spend a few minutes with me and talk about this show, 'cause I want him to be a part of it too. Thank you, Al. Al Dea: Of course. Matt. I'm always happy to chat with you and I always love hearing what you're up to and what you're doing. So yeah, let's dive in. Matt Stone: Alright, well listen, you already know the, kind of, the format of the show and everything, so we want to start right off, as we always do with, share with us a business relationship that's had a huge impact on you and your life. Al Dea: So the first one that came to mind was probably the, one of the very first managers that I ever worked for a woman by the name of Kristi, someone who very [00:02:00] much is a part of my life to this day. So I first started working for Kristi early on in my tenure at Deloitte Consulting, and I think in many ways the way that she led and the way that she managed is a model for how I have always tried to think about leadership, both for myself and, and now that I work in this space and I'm a student of this, this discipline, and she's a real life example of what that looks and feels like. And when I think about some of the bones of that relationship, you know, the couple things that really come to mind. I think the first thing was that she really saw me for who I was and bring that out of me. I think it's easy sometimes to want to maybe direct someone to be someone or nudge them in a certain way, whereas for whatever reason, I still don't really know to this day, she saw something in me and just tried the best that she could to, to keep bringing that out of me in all the best parts and, and certainly to, you know, times of where I could improve [00:03:00] upon or, or be better. But she really enabled what was already within me and, and just tried her best to bring that out. I think the second thing that she did, she taught me that, um, you know, a lot of your success in life is, is correlated to the amount of people that want you to succeed. And I think up until that point, I very much kind of viewed managers and leaders, you know, very much with the power dynamic that is often in mind in terms of you kind of being under them as a subordinate or direct report and them, you know, kind of being over you. Al Dea: And, and while there's an element of that, which is true, what she kind of taught me and something I try to again, bake into what I do to this day and what I teach to people is that, there may, may, of course be in fact a element to that, uh, relationship, which is true. That doesn't mean that you can't be supportive, that you can't be a collaborator, that you can't be a facilitator, that you can't be, an enabler. Al Dea: And there's so many times when I feel like I was able to do more simply because I knew that she was on my side and that she was [00:04:00] advocating and wanting to see me at my best. Um, and then I think the last thing that I would say. And I'd still say this to her to this day because I still, again, I talk to her all the time. The thing that she taught me about that relationship in particular is that, it can work both ways. I know at various points in our relationship together, she has mentioned to me that in as much as I have thanked her for what she's done for me, she's grateful to me. And, you know, she has mentioned to me multiple times where she was even on her journey at the time to really figuring out what leadership was for her. Al Dea: And that I actually taught her a lot about what it meant to be a leader. And so, to kind of treat that relationship as a two-way street, to be open and to be humble, to have belief in what you are capable of, but open that you can learn, and particularly at the time, you can learn from a 22-year-old who, uh, you know, just got hired in, in the firm. Uh, that relationship made it made a huge difference in my life, uh, definitely in my career. And it's something that I'm grateful for to this day. Matt Stone: The greatest mentorships, the [00:05:00] mentor, gains at least as much as the mentee. Al Dea: Yeah. Yeah. And, and she really modeled that and, and that was not something that I could have ever really expected. Uh, but it was really on her kind of, again, willingness to be open to it and, and to her credit, her willingness to see that she could get something out of it as much as she was giving into it. Al Dea: It's something that I certainly personally am forever grateful for. Matt Stone: Let me just ask you one more question about that and then we'll get to the other ones, but I'm wondering why did you trust her with that kind of care for you? Does, does that make sense? What? What was it that she did that engendered trust? Al Dea: It's a really good question, and there's a scenario, there's actually an actually real life example of how this played out. But let me back up before I get to that example. When I started working for her, I had just gotten off a couple projects that I thought went well, but when I had gotten my reviews, I had gotten the feedback that essentially I did not [00:06:00] perform nearly as well as I thought I had done. And when you talk about, you know, kind of trust, uh, very transparently, there wasn't a lot of trust in the kind of managerial relationships I had on some of their, those prior projects. So, jumping into this new project, working for Kristi, I definitely felt a little bit of apprehension and a little bit of uncertainty and concern as to how this was going to develop. But I was immediately kind of put at ease by that, just by her general kind of disposition. Um, Matt, you will know this because you are a student of this stuff, but when it comes to, you know, Kristi and her ability to build trust, she found a way to lead with affective trust and really out of her way, whether she was doing it intentionally or unintentionally to know me, to let me know that, in addition to the obvious pieces of performance and doing your job, that she cared about me and that she was interested in getting to know me and that, um, she wanted me to get to know her. Al Dea: And all of those elements of affective trust that are really critical, to any kind of relationship. Um, the cognitive [00:07:00] trust came in time, but she really did a good job, again, unintentionally or intentionally of laying that foundation. So what ended up happening and really what accelerated a lot of things was because of what she had done, Al Dea: as we had started working together a little bit more, I did feel that sense of trust coming. And, you know, one day during, we had like, your typical, career development conversation and check-in. Because of that trust she built I just had an honest conversation with her and I said, look, I had a couple projects where I thought I did well and I got the reviews that I didn't do as well. I thought I knew what it took to be successful here, but I'm not really sure that I do. Would you mind sharing with me, how I might be able to navigate through this and, and, and how I should be thinking about my career, knowing that I kind of am struggling with this? Al Dea: And she was very open and transparent and, and also empathetic. And she had kind of said, Hey, like you know, you're still learning. This doesn't come naturally. Uh, work is different than the school environment that you came in. And she made a [00:08:00] promise to me, which was, if you take ownership of this, I will meet you where you are and I will teach you, uh, the best to my abilities to help you kind of learn how to manage your career. Al Dea: And that really accelerated a lot of things. But that conversation only happened because of the question that you asked, which was: What trust was there in the first place? Well, there was a whole like slew of affective trust that she had laid the foundation for, which enabled me to even raise the question to begin with, which then in turn sparked the conversation and everything else that would come next. Matt Stone: So when you're working with leaders now, or even when you're doing your keynote, where does this relationship come up for you the most often? Maybe you don't expressly talk about it, but it, it triggers that experience. What, what kinds of scenarios trigger that? Al Dea: I, it, it comes up, it comes up in every scenario. I can't, it's, it would be, it'd be, I, it would be harder for me to find a scenario where it doesn't come up in, but let's just kind of take a few off the top. Um, the first [00:09:00] one would be I do work with a lot of organizations as well as I, I talk a lot in keynotes around leading through change, leading change, leading during change. Change in leadership of some kind. Right. And so much of what often is missing during those times is that sense of safety and security and certainty that we as humans often crave. And one of the best things that a leader can do in those moments, if they Al Dea: care about the success of the change as well as their people, is to find ways to build that trust, to let people know that you have their backs, uh, to the degree that you can provide some clarity to, to be able to provide that clarity. So this comes up all the time there. It comes up all the time in the conversations around how do I do this AI thing or how do we lead, you know, AI adoption or how do we get our employees to work, start working with AI to deliver innovation or productivity or whatever it is. Um, a lot of the challenges I think, that I'm seeing at least are observing really in some ways come back to incentive alignment, right? Al Dea: And [00:10:00] how do I know as an employee that this is actually going to benefit me, uh, or not? And your ability as a leader to convey that, both in terms of your interactions as well as the processes and workflows and programs you put in place. That's all built on trust, right? And then finally, I think it's probably heightened over the past five years, but probably has been decades in the making, and you know, this from the work that you do is just the ability to connect and, and, and, uh, uh, the ability to connect or to facilitate connection or to create connection, whether that's one-to-one or in small groups or whatever it is. fundamentally a leader is someone who drives a bunch of people towards a collective goal, and being able to kind of engender that trust and connection, in a one to one way, into one to many way, or to encourage that to your people. Um, that's all what it's, what it's about. So again, it would be harder to find a way to not talk about this in some kind of capacity. Matt Stone: Yeah. I love how you put it too, the, the AI thing's it's why I'm starting this [00:11:00] show, because I think right now we need to invest in AI and the only way we're gonna make that work highly effectively is investing in human trust as well at the same time. To me that's like a, it's like you gotta mix one with the other in order to get the best benefit out of it. Matt Stone: 'cause if you, if you neglect the human trust part of it, you're not gonna be able to maximize its benefit. Al Dea: Yeah. Yeah. No, I, a hundred percent. And I think like, um, in general, I tend to be cautious about over-extensions of anything. And so I think a lot of times a good starting place is a balance or, looking at things on a spectrum and trying to find ways to incorporate everything that's there. But, you know, I also just, you know, what are we all doing this for, right? Like, what if you just take it from the top, right? I, I think based off of my rudimentary understanding of history and business and economics, part of the reason why business and commerce exists is because it connects people together Al Dea: because Matt, you have something that I, I don't have, and Jamelle has one thing and Tasha has another, and we all kind of [00:12:00] need to come together because I need something that Tasha has, and Matt needs something that Jamelle needs. And, uh, and that's how like commerce exists, right? And so the fundamental unit of business, which we're all here for to a certain degree, is that ability to, to be connected, to survive. Al Dea: And that fundamental unit of connection a lot of times is that trust. And how do we, you know, find ways to do that. And so, uh, for me, it, I don't know, again, I'm not an economist. I'm not a historian, but from my understanding, like a lot of this comes back to that. Matt Stone: 100%. Talking about the topics. 'cause you know, one of the, my missions, one of my goals for these pre-launch conversations is to get really smart people to help me workshop what topics that we really need to explore in the show. Matt Stone: And since you have a podcast called The Edge of Work, okay, I expect the very edge of thinking. Okay. That's, I'm kind of loading it up there a little bit, but, uh, Al what is the topic that you think isn't [00:13:00] discussed enough or in the right way enough, if that makes sense. My grammar's all over the place, um, that we should go into more that would add the most value to the conversation. Al Dea: One of the things that I often think about is, I, I think I mentioned it earlier is what is this all for? And, you know, there's innovation for the sake of innovation. There's technology advancements for the sake of technology advancements, and, and that's all well and good, and the innovation won't stop. The technology won't stop, but I think there's gotta be more and better and more diverse kind of kinds of conversations about, well, what are, like, what do we actually want out of all of this? Right? Um, and maybe some more inclusion in that conversation. Um, I think that's the first thing that comes to mind, particularly as it relates to AI, which is I feel like the topic du jour, in terms of what do we actually want this for, right? Um, so that's, I like, honestly, the first, the [00:14:00] first thing that comes to mind. The second thing that comes to mind is this idea around what can we learn from history. There's that famous quote, history doesn't always repeat itself, but it often rhymes. Matt Stone: It rhymes. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Al Dea: I look at, you know, kind of, and this is a very US minded, uh, perspective, but uh, it's probably applicable to parts of the rest of the world. Al Dea: But I look at the just general kind of business and macroeconomic environment in the US right now. And, and to a certain degree you could argue that this does feel unprecedented, but I, I do think there are some analogies in history, uh, that could really help us really learn in these moments about either what could happen or what has happened in the past and what kind of implications does that have for us as individuals, uh, and leaders about how we can move through these, circumstances. Al Dea: I just started reading Andrew Ross Sorkin's new book, uh, 1929. Uh, so, which kind of covers like the crash from 1929, but certainly the Great Recession in 2007, 2008. Um, I recently spent some time talking with a senior HR, or at the time then a senior HR [00:15:00] leader, and he was kind of walking me through what actually happened when they had to do a huge kind of exercise around layoffs in the workforce and just the thought process that went into it and how much they didn't know and how challenging it was. I thought to myself, oh, there might be some, might be some parallels in there that might be helpful to kind of think about and consider, you know, considering where we are at this time. So learning from history is another one. And then perhaps, the last one in particular that I, I really care about is what does this all mean for the average professional? Al Dea: I do feel like there is a lot of conversation right now about what we need to do for organizations, but what about the average professional who's trying to navigate during these times? You know, what's the prescription for them, what's the roadmap for them in a, in an actual, real and concrete way, not in a platitude-y or thought leadershipy kind of way, but like in an actual real and concrete, uh, kind of way. I could probably talk about a whole bunch of other things, but those are the three things I, I was trying to think about what's not being talked about that should I, I feel like those are three, three good ones to start with. Matt Stone: Such a great [00:16:00] answer. And now you're on the hook because we're gonna do all those topics and you're coming back for it. Okay. Al Dea: Sounds good. Matt Stone: Alright. Thank you. Seriously, from the bottom of my heart. Your answers, and I've said this to you in other contexts, this isn't just for the camera. Matt Stone: Like you're just one of the most thoughtful and articulate people I know. And you give thoughtful answers to things that are, um, also structured in a way that makes 'em very easy to understand. And, uh. I just think you bring that practicality to the brain, uh, you know, a very smart, nuanced way of thinking, but put in a practical way. Matt Stone: And frankly, to your third point about what we should be discussing I think that really resonates with me. What does the average worker do with this? What does this mean in plain language? Um, so I want to explore that too. What, what excites you most about what you know so far about what this show's gonna be? Al Dea: You know, uh, one that you're involved. Um, so there's that. Matt Stone: Oh, thank you. Al Dea: And as an extension of that the things that you care about are things that I think people [00:17:00] want, but don't always understand how to bring to life for themself in terms of connection, in terms of the human element, in terms of what we talked about of trust. Al Dea: Right. Uh, you know, selfishly, like, part of the reason why I feel like I've been successful in terms of talking about these things is that I've found ways to try to make them land for people who maybe have a harder time putting these things into action. And so I do think they not just come at a critical time, but they also come for a population of individuals who do want these things to talk about these things or want guidance around these things, or want to have conversations, um, around these things. And so that to me is, you know, what is exciting. And then, obviously I think, you know, as someone who I consider to be a friend, you know, for you, like this is your, uh, a chance for you to kind of align some of the things you care deeply about and to bring them into the world in a professional setting, in a way that is advantageous for others as well as it is for you. And so just whenever there's that alignment between kind of values and outcomes, that's always a win. So those are a couple reasons why I'm excited. Matt Stone: [00:18:00] Alright, prepare your rider agreement if you need green M&Ms or whatever it is you need for the green room, uh, we'll make sure you get what you need. The, those chocolate marshmallows that you really like that you have to have or you can't appear on camera. Al Dea: I'm a peanut butter M&M guy. So if Matt Stone: Oh, Al Dea: ones are, are peanut butter, then Matt Stone: peanut butter M&Ms. Matt Stone: Yes, those are absolute, ridiculously good. Okay, rapid fire questions. Do you have time to get through these? Al Dea: I do. Matt Stone: What's your favorite breakfast food? Al Dea: Oh, uh, hash brown casserole. Matt Stone: Least favorite breakfast food. Al Dea: There is no least, breakfast is my favorite meal. There's no, you can't lose. Matt Stone: Okay. Something you absolutely must do before the end of your life. Matt Stone: The ultimate bucket list item. Al Dea: I want to do a vacation with all of my family and friends, in Hawaii. Just bring everyone on an island, you know, bring 'em all there. Matt Stone: Beautiful. Matt Stone: Beautiful. Love it. Okay. What's, uh, the most [00:19:00] overused word or phrase in business? Al Dea: So it'd be easy to kind of pick on like the jargony stuff like leverage or synergy or anything like that. I think for the world of work that I'm in, I think the word I'm gonna pick is engagement. Um, yeah. Well, I'm gonna go with that one. I think. Matt Stone: Yeah. Al Dea: we just use it so much that sometimes I don't know what exactly it means. Matt Stone: Right. The meaning gets just completely. Yeah. Matt Stone: Yeah, Matt Stone: It's like empathy and other words in different contexts. We, we don't even know what we're talking about. Okay. How about, what's an underused word or phrase or one you'd like to see more prevalent or discussed? Al Dea: yeah, uh, we, we, we Matt Stone: Okay. Al Dea: Do a lot of "I"s, but, uh, I think "we" could be a word we, we try to figure out how to do more of. Matt Stone: I'll put you in contact with WeWork, uh, Al Dea: he's here all year folks!, Matt Stone: I'm hearing, no, I'm actually half serious because at WeWork they'll throw these events and half the time it's the individual companies, you know, who come to the event, [00:20:00] but no one actually cross pollinates. You know, it's hard to get people to do it and you know, you really have to do more than put cupcakes out. Matt Stone: Yeah. Alright. Anyway, that's a, I digress. Um, what's the best advice for a young entrepreneur who's going through their first big failure? Or what feels like a big failure. Al Dea: I would say that there has been someone who, whatever it is you are dealing, whatever failure it is, someone else has gone through the exact same thing. Find who they are and spend time talking with them and listening to them. Um, and I think it will help as you kind of process through it and, and identify how you wanna move forward. Matt Stone: That'd be hard to top that with better advice. Yeah, that really resonates with me. And finally, um, what are you most curious about right now? Al Dea: I am very curious about how infants and toddlers develop selfishly, because I have a 10 month old [00:21:00] and knowing what I know just about some of the fundamentals of learning and just, uh, pedagogy and things, I, I know some of this stuff and could see it happening in real time, but I would love to dig in more as I think about, how my wife and I kind of create an environment for my son where he does feel like he can lean into all that curiosity that he has and that he can explore and that he can develop all of those things that will make him the incredible human being that he already is into an even more incredible human being, so. Matt Stone: Uh, set him on a trajectory to reach his full potential. Yeah, that's, that's Beau. I love the way you put that, you know, is he already is. To become more fully who he already is. I mean, that's, that's really it. Okay. Al, if someone's watching this and they're like, man, I have got to get me some of that Al Dea, uh, how would they get in contact with you in the way that would work Matt Stone: the best? Al Dea: Probably best way is to find me on LinkedIn. First name is Al. Last name is Dea. Think I'm the only one, so you'll know it's me. But yeah, thank you for, thank you for asking. Okay. Matt Stone: And I'll [00:22:00] put your LinkedIn link if you'd like. I'll put it in the show notes and we'll, and we've referenced it here, so do follow Al. He's also one of the most disciplined content creators in this space in terms of sending out his weekly newsletter. And he's always synthesizing value added data. Matt Stone: So, um, he really is a, an incredible mind and resource And, uh, thank you for being so generous with your time, today. Al Dea: Always a pleasure Matt. Matt Stone: So thank you for listening and watching the Building Business Relationships Show. This pre-launch phase is all about discovery, so if something sparked your interest, we'd love to hear from you. Please do share your thoughts, ideas, or guest suggestions, and help us shape the conversations to come. To do that, the easiest way would be to go to mattstone.co, Matt Stone: that's M-A-T-T-S-T-O-N-E dot CO. Click on the contact us button and send a message through that. Or you can leave a message on social media, that's fine too. And of course, subscribe to our YouTube channel so you'll be the first to know when new content drops, and of course, when the show officially launches [00:23:00] in 2026. Matt Stone: Thanks again for listening or watching, and we'll see you on the next one.