Latest / The Lila Rose Show / E82: When Healthcare Fails to Care - The Story of Baby Indi

Transcript

E82: When Healthcare Fails to Care - The Story of Baby Indi · The Lila Rose Show

0:00
What did it feel like when you continually asked to leave to
0:04
take Indy to get this care, and they said no, we're keeping her
0:07
here and we want to remove her breathing support?
0:10
When I first got the offer from Italy, it just felt amazing.
0:12
And I still went to the courts to get permission.
0:15
I'm thinking, well, I shouldn't be going to court to get
0:16
permission. I can remember the judge saying
0:18
in the court he can't force a doctor to do anything.
0:21
But then you've got these doctors wanting to take a child
0:24
in, so why? Why wouldn't let us go?
0:26
And he just felt like so inhumane and evil and it, it was
0:30
hard. But I went back in the room and
0:31
gave India hugging a kiss and told her goodbye.
0:34
The part where I say it felt like I was being dragged to
0:36
hell. That's what it felt like.
0:38
Just felt like I was in hell. Hey guys, welcome back to the
0:45
Lila Rose Podcast. Today we're going to talk about
0:47
the story of Indy Gregory. You may have heard about baby
0:51
Indy from the last few months, the little 7 month old girl in
0:55
the UK who was ultimately killed, yes, killed by the
1:00
United Kingdom's socialized healthcare system.
1:04
This story matters tremendously because this is happening with
1:07
increased frequency in countries where doctors who are concerned
1:13
about the bottom line and who are OK practicing the culture of
1:17
death in their medical system get to call the shots instead of
1:21
the patient or the parents of the patient.
1:23
It's a very, very scary thing. So the United.
1:26
Kingdom, as you may know, has a universal healthcare system that
1:29
is called the National Health Service or the NHS, and it
1:33
meters out healthcare. It meters out healthcare for the
1:36
people of England, for the people of the United Kingdom,
1:39
and it determines if your condition that you may be born
1:43
with or you may get as a human being qualifies you for certain
1:47
treatment or not. It's a scary thing when you're
1:50
the parent of a newborn or a small child who there are
1:53
treatments for a baby that may have a condition and that you
1:57
cannot get those treatments because the doctors at the NHS
2:02
are saying no, we refuse to permit them.
2:06
I want to get into the story today with Dean.
2:08
We're going to actually interview Dean Gregory, who is
2:10
the father of Baby Indy. Baby Indy passed away a few
2:15
weeks ago, horribly, after being deprived of breathing support by
2:20
the NHS. Dean and Claire, the parents of
2:24
Baby Indy, fought very hard for months, appeal after appeal,
2:28
losing them in the British court system, trying to get Indy's
2:33
help and support. At one point, Baby Indy was even
2:36
offered and given citizenship to Italy in Italy, becoming an
2:42
Italian citizen so that Italy could pay for all transport and
2:47
all medical care to provide this little baby with the actual
2:52
treatments that she needed, with the mitochondrial condition that
2:56
she had, so that she could live and she could thrive.
3:00
And it was actually a Vatican hospital, Bambino Jeizu, that
3:03
offered her free care and expert support.
3:08
And her parents wanted to take their daughter there.
3:10
There are babies and there are children who have the same
3:13
condition as baby Indy and who are living today.
3:17
There's actually a 30 year old who's alive today with the same
3:20
mitochondrial condition. That treatment can help sustain
3:25
the life of and improve the life of these children.
3:28
Indy was not receiving that support in England, and they
3:31
deemed her life ultimately not worth living.
3:34
So we're going to actually hear from Dean himself in this
3:38
episode. It's totally heartbreaking, but
3:40
it's really important to hear what he went through and what
3:43
happens when we surrender control and we ultimately give
3:48
the culture of death power in a medical system to call the shots
3:52
on what patients deserve to live and what patients deserve to
3:55
die. Dean Gregory is the father of
3:57
Indy Gregory, who, along with his partner Claire, heroically
4:01
fought for Andy's life. This is his story.
4:04
Welcome to the podcast, Dean. Thanks so much for joining.
4:07
Thank you. So you, I've been following your
4:11
story as many of our listeners on the podcast over the last
4:15
couple months and several weeks. And first of all, I just want to
4:18
say I'm so, so sorry for the loss of your beautiful little
4:21
girl, Indy. Thank you.
4:24
It's been really hard. As you can see, Indy's on the
4:28
picture behind us. I see that beautiful, beautiful
4:32
little girl. She was, she was a totally
4:35
beautiful, beautiful girl. Yeah.
4:37
Well, some people are getting familiar with your story, and
4:40
I'd love to start with the beginning.
4:43
You and your partner Claire had indeed.
4:46
Tell us about when you first found out you guys were pregnant
4:48
with Indy. Yeah, we found out.
4:53
I think there was about 9 weeks pregnant then we found out.
4:58
Then we went for a scan and the first scan everything was fine.
5:02
There was no, no problems on the scans.
5:04
It wasn't until we went to the second scan where they said that
5:08
India had a little, they call it fallows.
5:10
It's like a hole in the heart. And then?
5:14
What was that like when you found that out?
5:17
Well, Claire's got a little hole in the heart.
5:18
So we was, we was kind of thinking it would be similar to
5:21
what Claire had it don't give Claire any problems.
5:25
So we was a bit was a bit worried, but we was just willing
5:28
to accept whatever indie had problems.
5:34
And then we went to the second scan, they found that they
5:36
shared fluid on the brain. Ventricles was bigger than they
5:41
should have been. I was a bit worried, but we was
5:45
we didn't really know that much about it to be honest.
5:50
What kind of medical advice were you being given around this time
5:52
when you were first seeing the the scans of India and kind of
5:56
learning that there were some health problems?
6:00
Well, we got offered an abortion at pretty much every scan, to be
6:03
fair. We just couldn't understand why.
6:07
It didn't matter to us if she had large ventricles or fluid on
6:12
the brain or a heart problem. So every time we refused to have
6:16
an abortion. How did the medical team that
6:21
was caring for you guys respond when you would say no, we don't
6:24
want this, You know, we don't want this.
6:25
We don't want this. I think they they asked us every
6:30
time, but I think they could just tell even though they was
6:33
asking as well wasn't going to agree to it.
6:36
I've got strong beliefs in in things like that anyway.
6:41
I'd love to kind of hear a little bit about that.
6:43
I mean, you and Claire, we're going to hear more about your
6:46
story about how you fought for your daughter's life.
6:48
But what, what it, what is your background and what is what is
6:52
Claire's background and what kind of what gave you that, that
6:55
moral vision to see, to see Indies value?
6:58
There's a lot of couples that are offered abortion when
7:00
there's any kind of medical condition that their baby might
7:03
have, who's unborn. And a lot of couples,
7:05
unfortunately, who choose abortion.
7:08
It's just we've created a life, so to get rid of a life just
7:13
because she isn't fully healthy just don't seem right to me.
7:16
Ultimately, you could say that that's just the way God created
7:22
her, but it was our responsibility, whatever India
7:27
came out like, to look after her.
7:30
Hey guys, it's a new year 2024. It's time for some new meat.
7:34
So you can check out goodrangers.com to get your
7:36
American meat delivered. It's very cool because
7:39
goodrangers.com, which is sourced 100% from American
7:42
ranchers is best in class meat, poultry, seafood and pork and
7:46
they have some amazing deals right now for the new year.
7:49
At goodrangers.com, you can subscribe to get your meat
7:53
package that comes in with free expedited delivery to you and
7:57
get free chicken for a year. And guys, their chicken is
7:59
amazing. A lot of the chicken from the
8:01
grocery store today, I think it's just flavorless or bland or
8:03
stringy. Good Ranchers chicken is
8:05
delicious and juicy. You're going to love it.
8:08
So if you subscribe now, you get $189 value a free when you
8:12
subscribe in the month of January.
8:14
So do not wait. Go check it out today.
8:17
That's goodranchers.com. Use the code Lila at checkout to
8:21
get $20 off your subscription and your free chicken for the
8:25
year. That's the code Lila at
8:27
checkout@goodranchers.com. So walk me through when you
8:31
found out, you know, after you were finding out different
8:33
medical issues that she may have, the process of, you know,
8:37
first meeting Indy after her birth and how and how Claire's
8:40
delivery went. On the when we was about to have
8:46
Indy, obviously because of a heart condition and a fluid on
8:49
the brain, they said that Indy might not come out breathing.
8:53
So it was obviously stressed, was really scared on the on the,
8:59
on the labour, cleared the labour.
9:02
I think it didn't really take that long to be honest.
9:04
Clearly didn't have any drugs or anything.
9:05
And then she came out and she was crying and she seemed
9:09
perfect, which was a relief. That was nice.
9:14
It wasn't until I tried to feed in there that she couldn't.
9:18
She went blue when I tried to feed her with a bottle so she
9:21
couldn't swallow the milk. And what was the process then to
9:28
get her the care that she needed?
9:30
And I've also kind of share with me how the medical team was
9:34
responding to you both because at this point, obviously you and
9:37
Claire, you have a beautiful baby girl, she's having troubles
9:39
feeding. You want to take care of her.
9:43
Walk me through what that process was like.
9:44
And then also how the medical team and what hospital was this
9:47
that you that Claire delivered out and that and he was cared
9:49
for it. She was born at City Hospital in
9:52
Nottingham, so yeah. In England, Yeah, in England.
9:57
I went to feed Indy and she went blue.
9:59
So they took Indy off me and they scanned the the scanned
10:02
hall and she had some green bile coming back up.
10:06
So we got transferred to Queen's Medical Centre in Nottingham and
10:12
they found out that she had a twisted bath.
10:15
So she needed an operation for that, which was because she had
10:19
an heart condition. We had to go to another hospital
10:21
in Leicester because there was heart specialists.
10:26
So she went to Leicester, she had the bile operation fine.
10:29
They retwisted it. And then she came back to
10:33
Queen's Medical Centre to have an MRI scan.
10:38
And then after the MRI scan, she started having seizures.
10:42
She just started having seizures out of the blue.
10:44
Yeah, about 3 1/2 weeks old. She was sorry she started having
10:48
seizures. And then we kept getting
10:50
pressured to have, you know, genetic test.
10:55
I've been reading, I read upon genetic tests and I can remember
10:59
reading an article by a doctor saying that the dark side to
11:02
genetic tests. And yes, it can be used to help
11:05
people, but it can also be used to not treat people.
11:09
So that was my biggest fear. And I kept refusing it.
11:12
We kept refusing it. But in the end, I think they
11:15
asked us 456 times. I felt pressured and we did do
11:20
it. And then obviously now my
11:22
biggest fear came true because it's like as soon as I got that
11:25
piece of paper, that was it. Then they stopped wanting to
11:28
care for her. So she had, you know, there's
11:32
other obviously seizures are absolutely terrifying,
11:35
especially for a little infant, but that has happened to babies
11:38
before. You know, there have been
11:40
stomach issues, heart issues, babies, you know, newborn babies
11:43
and NICU sometimes have a lot of different conditions that they
11:46
have to their medical team and their parents have to work
11:49
through. It's always, of course, very
11:50
difficult. Are you saying that once they
11:52
completed the genetic test, they stopped caring what walk, walk
11:57
us through what that looked like?
11:58
That they stopped treating some of the symptoms that she was
12:01
exhibiting. They were still treating but the
12:04
problem is they push kept pushing us to get in this
12:07
genetic test and then we agreed to do it and then all of a
12:13
sudden when we got the results, we got handed a piece of paper
12:16
by the doctor. It wasn't the genetic Dr., it
12:18
was just intensive care doctor saying this is what India's got.
12:23
And so I'm looking at this piece of paper with this name on it
12:26
and I haven't even got a clue. So it wasn't, it kept playing on
12:30
my mind. So a couple of days later, I was
12:32
like, I need to have a meeting with the genetic Dr. to explain
12:35
to us what actually India's got. And they told us she had this
12:40
mitochondria disease. And it's very rare apparently.
12:45
And there was only a few treatments possible.
12:48
One was a ketogenic diet and one was a citrate therapy.
12:55
The metabolic doctor told me about them.
12:56
So when I asked the doctor, can she start the ketogenic diet,
13:02
she was about 3 months old. He turned around to us and said,
13:06
you don't think she'd like the taste?
13:08
But she was being fed through a tube through a nose.
13:11
So I looked at Claire and was like, what?
13:13
What's going on here? Something's not right.
13:16
So they didn't even start the ketogenic diet, which is one of
13:19
the known things to treat it or to help treat it.
13:24
So they didn't start the ketogenic diet.
13:26
And then there was in debates whether there was seizures or
13:29
not seizures, whether it was something to do with breathing.
13:32
So every time she'd have a seizure, they would give her
13:35
midazolam after 10 minutes. But then they started to say the
13:40
doctor wanted to leave her in this episode for 2 1/2 hours
13:45
without giving her any rescue drugs.
13:48
So immediately I had to sit there, there was bagging her
13:51
while she was in this seizure for 2 1/2 hours.
13:54
Even the the the doctor doing it couldn't looks like what the
13:58
Hell's going off to see if it well, if she'd come out, come
14:02
out of it on her own and she didn't.
14:05
And then when she when they gave her the rescue drugs later on,
14:08
she came out of it. But he did it for three days on
14:11
the truck and it just me and Claire like now looking at it
14:14
back, it's like, was he trying to damage her?
14:17
I mean, why? Why would they do that for three
14:19
days? That's insane.
14:23
So she'd be having seizures, she'd get treatment, she'd
14:25
recover, but then the doctor decided I'm not going to treat
14:28
the seizure even though she's in my care.
14:32
They tried to say that there wasn't sure because the seizure
14:36
medicines, she was still having seizures on the seizure
14:39
medicines that there was in debates that couldn't decide
14:43
whether she was having seizures or not even seizures.
14:46
And there was trying to push us to a Hospice even at that point
14:49
at three months old. But the only way she could go to
14:52
the Hospice is if she could have a package where she did wasn't
14:56
having seizures because obviously they don't do the
15:01
bagging at the Hospice. So he said that's the reason why
15:05
he was trying to see if she'd come out of it.
15:07
But she didn't come out of it until they gave her the the
15:10
medicines. But then he did it the next day
15:13
and I think he'd done it three times after that.
15:15
And it just seems strange leaving the child in that much
15:19
stress for three hours. Looking back in the night, it's
15:23
painful trying to do. For you to watch.
15:26
Yeah, I mean, it was painful to watch by the time we was
15:29
thinking it's to help her, but it just, it gives me doubts now,
15:34
having seen everything we've gone through and stuff.
15:36
Was it to do more harm? We, we just don't know.
15:42
So, Dean, there are, and, and there's been an incredible
15:45
global response to your story. And there are stories that have
15:49
emerged and a medical experts, you know, in, in Italy, as an
15:52
example, who of course offered to care for Indy at the Bevino
15:56
Hospital in Rome. But there have been medical
15:59
experts who have said children can live with this condition and
16:02
they can, they can thrive. I mean, they it's it's not an
16:06
easy condition, but they can be treated.
16:07
They can live with it, but they must get proper treatment.
16:11
When as you and Claire, you know, you're learning about this
16:14
for the first time as you're learning about all of this and
16:18
you're not getting that care from the hospital.
16:22
What was that experience like for you it?
16:26
It, it was terrible. I mean, we just felt like India
16:29
was being neglected. She wasn't getting even basic
16:36
mitochondria diseases like a, A basic things I should be getting
16:42
like amino acids and certain natural nutrients and she wasn't
16:48
even getting them. She'd get an infection and
16:52
they'll try and blame it on a condition and I'm the same.
16:55
It's a brainstem. And then it turns out she had
16:57
sepsis and it was just, it was just neglect.
17:02
That's what it felt like. She was being neglected, like
17:06
she wasn't worth the cost because she will need that
17:10
little bit extra care and because of her genetic condition
17:16
and her short lifespan or she wasn't worth the cost.
17:20
That's what it felt like. And then we found, we found two
17:23
children in America who's got the same condition, but one's
17:26
nine and one's four. And then recently we found out
17:31
that the oldest person, whether it's 3030 years old.
17:35
Wow, And when you were discovering this, what would you
17:39
be, what would you say to her medical team and her doctor?
17:41
I mean, of course, context for Americans here in England, you
17:46
are, there's a there's a system of, you know, you can call it
17:49
socialized healthcare and there's a certain, you know,
17:53
standards that they have and the patient may want care that the
17:58
patient may not receive. And the doctors get to decide
18:01
not the patient in many cases. So what was it like for you and
18:05
for Claire to be discovering all of these treatments and about,
18:09
you know, child living to be 30s and someone who's 30 years old
18:12
with the same condition Indy has and then not care not being
18:15
provided to Indy. I mean, unfortunately it wasn't
18:18
until she was about seven months old until I found out about the
18:23
American children and the 30 year old.
18:26
But she called sepsis E coli off the ward.
18:32
And then we was being told that this is her condition.
18:37
And I'm saying, well, how can it be her condition when she's got
18:39
sepsis E coli? And they asked for us if they
18:44
could bring in a second opinion, doctor from Birmingham and I
18:48
said no. I said because surely it's
18:51
unfair to have a second opinion when a child's got sepsis, E
18:54
coli, which causes it to have CPR.
18:57
I says can't he just wait until she fights this, the infection
19:01
and then come back? So because we said no, he
19:05
couldn't do it. But then when we came back in on
19:07
the Monday, the doctor said he'd been to the NHS, he'd been to
19:12
the trust and they've advised him to bring him in anyway.
19:17
So you've got a child who's got sepsis from catching E coli in
19:21
the hospital, then a Birmingham doctor coming into the report
19:27
which is going to make her look worse than what she actually is.
19:31
And then I was thinking, why are they getting a second opinion?
19:35
Then I started thinking, are they trying to build up a case
19:39
against us? So in, in the back of my mind, I
19:43
always knew something was happening.
19:45
And then she she got the sepsis, she beat the sepsis.
19:49
Even a normal child struggled to beat the sepsis.
19:52
She started after two months of ketogenic diet, which she should
19:58
have started straight away. And then she didn't have any
20:01
seizures or anything for two weeks.
20:03
She was, the cluster is like clinically perfect pretty much.
20:08
And I said to the doctor, can we bring the second opinion doctor
20:10
back so we can do another report?
20:13
And he said, oh, no, that's too, it's too much trouble that
20:16
that'll be too much trouble. And to me, it was just like,
20:19
it's just some of some of it wasn't right.
20:24
How incredibly frustrating and horrific.
20:28
It was, it was terrible. I mean, this is the the doctor's
20:32
supposed to be helping us and helping Indy.
20:35
We hardly ever seen him. Indy never even seen a
20:38
mitochondran specialist doctor. She'd never seen a specialist.
20:44
So the hospital never permitted A mitochondrial specialist to
20:49
come and look at a patient, a little girl who has this
20:52
condition, to get her proper treatment.
20:54
Not once. Only the metabolic doctors, what
20:58
they had on the site. But this mitochondrial
21:01
specialist worldwide never came to see Indy once, No.
21:07
Which was frustrating. I have always had a hard time
21:10
finding skin care products that I really liked and wanted to
21:13
continue using. I've tried a lot of different
21:15
products, so I was really excited to discover
21:17
nimiskincare.com. That's Nimi, NIM iskincare.com.
21:23
What's so awesome about Nimi is it's a beautiful brand that
21:25
shares our values. It's a pro-life, pro family
21:27
brand, but that doesn't mean necessarily the product is going
21:30
to be amazing. So I tried the product a few
21:32
months ago and I fell in love. Nimi Skin Care has an amazing
21:35
vitamin C cream that I love using and evening moisturizer
21:39
that I've been using, and I also really love their sunscreen.
21:42
They have amazing products that are simple.
21:44
The ingredients are no nonsense. They're listed on the website.
21:47
You know what you're using on your skin and the price point is
21:50
great. So check out nimiskincare.com.
21:53
I think you're going to really enjoy their products.
21:55
That's Nimi skincare.com and you can get 15% off your order using
21:59
the code Lila at checkout. The part here that I think makes
22:04
everyone who hears your story Dean.
22:07
Outraged and concerned and and heartbroken is the part where
22:12
you went out of your way, you and Claire fighting for Indy's
22:15
life and for her care to find specialists to find alternative
22:20
treatments that would be fully funded so not on the taxpayers
22:25
dime in England and what happened.
22:29
Tell us about what happened when you found that care and you
22:32
sought to get Andy taken from the hospital to be taken to the
22:38
specialist who could actually care from her.
22:41
Well, we had during the court we got specialist reports.
22:47
I got a cardio cardiologist report from Ireland, a
22:53
mitochondrance specialist from Canada.
22:54
He he was very high like top level and another one from
22:59
Germany all saying that if India had got the stent procedure,
23:05
which is non invasive. So it wasn't even operational.
23:08
It was just a stent going through the leg to the heart to
23:11
open it up. That would help her breathing
23:14
and then they could focus on a genetic problem.
23:17
She would have a good quality of life.
23:20
But even with this, the judges didn't even want to know that
23:24
there wasn't bothered and it cost I think the reports was
23:28
thousands of pounds to get and we didn't even get a fair hear
23:32
of hearing where they'll look at it and bring them in or
23:35
anything. It was just one sided the whole
23:38
port system. And it was her breathing that
23:43
impacted her feeding, right? The feed it, yeah.
23:48
I mean, I think with mitochondrance sometimes the
23:51
struggle to swallow. After the ketogenic diet, Indy
23:56
stopped having seizures. So up until she was, she was 3
24:01
1/2 weeks old, up until she was about four months, she was
24:06
having seizures on and off. But then when she saw the
24:08
ketogenic diet, the they stopped the seizures completely stopped.
24:13
And this is what made me fight for India because I could see
24:15
that with the right treatment, she she could be good.
24:19
And then this they because of a heart condition when they, when
24:26
they didn't have the genetic reports, they said that we will
24:29
fix in this, we could fix in this heart when she's not having
24:32
seizures. So if the seizures stopped,
24:34
we'll give her the heart operation.
24:37
But when they got the genetic report, it they didn't want to,
24:40
even though the seizures stopped, they didn't want to
24:42
give her the heart operation. So to me it was they didn't
24:47
think she was worth the cost. Again, she wasn't worth her.
24:51
That's what it felt like. Dean, have you talked to other
24:56
parents? Have you and Claire talked to
24:58
other parents in England who have children with some of these
25:01
different genetic conditions or health issues, especially very
25:05
young children that have fought or are fighting to get the care,
25:09
did not get the care because they were deemed not worth it?
25:15
We've, we've spoke to, I mean, I've heard people message me
25:18
saying things like this, similar things that happened to them and
25:21
the child's passed away and, and stuff like that.
25:24
But physically talking to someone.
25:25
I've spoke to another lady who was in the hospital at the same
25:28
time and her child's having seizures and she's got
25:35
mitochondria disease, but a different mutation.
25:38
And when this was all happening, she, she was literally crying
25:43
and saying she's scared because the same doctor, the treat and
25:45
her child and she's scared. And she had she had a nurse come
25:49
up to her because her child had a seizure.
25:52
So in order to get access, they have to put a needle in the leg
25:57
to get access to give her the drugs.
25:59
And one of the nurses said to the mum, when, when do you when
26:04
do you call it a day? When's it when, when is it
26:06
enough? How much you're putting through?
26:09
And it's just the mentality of the nurse hasn't thinking.
26:12
So you'd rather let a child die than have a needle, which is a
26:15
little bit of pain. What lasts probably 5 minutes.
26:19
It's just the the mentality in there.
26:21
I don't know if they're being taught it or if it's just the
26:25
normal in there. I'm thinking and I told her
26:28
don't ever feel guilty for for trying to save your child's
26:32
life. Wow.
26:36
I mean, that is the the culture of death versus the culture of
26:39
life. The one that says we're going to
26:41
not fight for life versus we're going to enable death,
26:46
especially of those that are the weakened and the most
26:49
vulnerable. I want to ask you and get more
26:52
into detail about Italy's amazing offer to your family,
26:56
Dean. But first, what was what was
26:58
Indy like when you were able to have time with her?
27:02
I mean, this was this is covered.
27:04
Your ordeal is full of the pain of wrestling to get her, the
27:07
medical care she needs and the things that she's enduring.
27:10
But what was it like when you and Claire got to be with your
27:13
little girl? I mean, the first few months was
27:18
it was like a roller coaster was we had to go to Leicester for an
27:23
operation. She got over that fine.
27:26
Then she went to Birmingham to have a shunt put in to drain the
27:29
fluid off the brain. So the first few months was
27:31
really scarier. But after she battled the
27:34
infection and she thought the key to Jane died, it's like she
27:36
became a different child. You could hear her babbling,
27:40
trying to speak. She was watching the iPad.
27:44
She was just seemed a lot more energetic and she had a
27:50
beautiful face. I mean, you, you'd hold her and
27:52
she could, you could just see as soon as you hold, her heart rate
27:55
would come down and she'd just relax and she'd make noises and
27:59
you make noises back to her. She really was a beautiful
28:03
little girl. So you got, I mean, of course
28:08
there's the added complication of the first few months of her
28:11
life, which are so important for a newborn.
28:13
She's in a hospital, she's in a bed.
28:15
You're not able to be with her, you know, 24/7.
28:18
You, you, you, you can hold her, but you know, she's on this bed.
28:22
But it sounds like when you were able to hold her and engage with
28:26
her, she was responding like like a little, you know, a few
28:30
month old baby would. We knew she had a few.
28:34
She might have had a few delayed, delayed problems, but
28:38
she was, yeah, she was very aware and awake and you could
28:41
see her. She moved fully and she was
28:43
alert. We put her in the baby swinger.
28:46
She's gone on a bean bag. Even the nurses were like, we
28:51
can't believe our different Indias now because she was talk,
28:54
you know what I mean? She just because she was getting
28:56
something that she needed, she started coming out in herself.
29:02
It was only the, the infections kept setting her back.
29:05
So she they said she was perfect for two weeks and moved on to a
29:09
ward. She was on the ward for a few
29:12
days and then she ended up coming back up with a, another
29:15
infection off the ward. It was, I can't remember the
29:19
enterovirus. That's what took her back
29:22
upstairs. And so it was a bit frustrating.
29:27
And then on the last one, just before they took us to court,
29:30
she went down I'll again and she and I said to him, this is an
29:35
infection. This is just like before.
29:37
No, this is her condition. This is her condition.
29:42
And it turned well, she got caught E coli on the she had E
29:45
coli again in the stomach. So and then she got better
29:48
towards the end of court. So you can imagine that if Indy
29:52
was really bad, then I wouldn't have been fighting saying no,
29:55
she's she's OK. She come off all the blood
29:59
pressure medications, she come off all life support.
30:03
She only had the ventilation in for the lowest setting for weeks
30:06
and weeks and weeks. So there was even saying the
30:08
doctors to us, she's in a much better place.
30:11
But then when they knew that we had a court hearing, you'd hear,
30:15
you'd read a witness statement from the doctor saying the total
30:18
opposite. And that's what really got to me
30:21
is the lies. So they would blame the
30:25
conditions, they would blame those infections that she'd get
30:28
at the hospital because the care was not top quality and they
30:34
blame it on her condition and use that as justification for
30:37
we're going to remove her feeding tube and her breathing
30:40
assistance. Yeah, the the the tried to blame
30:42
other condition. I mean she had a she was losing
30:47
in by the end she was losing she had like diarrhea a lot.
30:52
And they tried, they said the her bowels are failing.
30:56
This is her condition. And I was like, this isn't
30:59
condition. She's obviously just got poorly
31:01
tummy or whatever. And then a few days later we
31:05
come, we went to go on the ward and half the Ward's closed off.
31:08
I'm like, oh, why is the Ward's closed off?
31:10
Oh, because it's a sickness and diarrhoea bug going around.
31:12
And I was like, and, and, and I'm sat in court saying that her
31:15
bow's a thing. And it was just, it was
31:18
unbelievable. But the worst Part, 1 of the
31:22
worst parts for me and Claire was being taken into a room by a
31:25
doctor and a nurse saying that we've been advised to take you
31:31
to court and if you say anything and put or put it on social
31:35
media, we'll get reporting restrictions on you.
31:39
And I was like, you've got no chance.
31:40
And so if anything like that happens, it's going everywhere.
31:44
But I just couldn't believe it was like we just couldn't
31:47
believe it. We just India was only a few
31:49
month old baby 5-6 months and you're hearing someone say
31:54
things like this to you? Horrific.
31:59
You're fighting for her life, you're trying to get her the
32:01
basic care she deserves, and they're threatening to not just
32:04
sue you so that they can remove her care, but they're going to
32:07
put a gag order on you so you're not allowed to tell anybody
32:10
about it. Yeah, This is why I I spoke to,
32:14
you know, Charlie Guard's mom. Charlie Guard, of course, yes.
32:16
Yeah, it's Mom, Connie. Yeah, she, she gave me the
32:21
reporter's name for the Daily Mail.
32:23
So I made sure that I had the story ready, ready to go.
32:27
So I thought, there's no way in hell they're going to do that to
32:30
me. So.
32:33
Everylife.com is America's pro-life diaper company.
32:36
These are high performing diapers and wipes for your
32:38
little one. I think you're going to love the
32:40
product. They are great diapers.
32:41
We've ordered a lot of diapers at our house and Every Life does
32:44
not disappoint. What's so wonderful about
32:46
everylife.com is you're not only getting a great diaper and wipes
32:49
and they have other products that are coming, so check it
32:51
out, but that everylife.com is a pro-life diaper company.
32:55
They support your values and they donate some of their
32:58
proceeds back to the pro-life movement, including groups like
33:01
your favorite Live Action. So check out every life.com
33:04
today. You can use the code Lila at
33:06
checkout for 10% off your order. Order that bundle of wipes and
33:10
diapers for that new little niece or nephew in your life,
33:13
your new son or daughter, your friend's baby.
33:15
It's a great gift. They also have these cute new
33:18
mom baby boxes. Check it out at everylife.com
33:22
and use the code Lila at checkout for 10% off your order.
33:26
Giorgia Malani, the Prime Minister of Italy, said they say
33:32
there isn't much hope for a little energy.
33:33
She's talking about these doctors who wanted to remove her
33:37
care in England, of course, but she says, but I will do
33:40
everything in my power to defend her life and to defend her
33:43
mother and father's right to do everything that they can for
33:47
her. In a remarkable move, your
33:50
little daughter was granted Italian citizens citizenship to
33:54
help her to help with the justification of moving her from
33:58
the UK to Italy to get care in Italy at a elite Children's
34:04
Hospital and this care would be fully funded and she'd get the
34:09
proper care for her condition. How did this all take place?
34:12
Did you get in touch with authorities in in Italy?
34:15
How did how did this amazing opportunity present itself?
34:20
Well, in the UK the the guardian angels for us in the UK was the
34:25
Christine concerned. They really helped us and for me
34:29
there was like heroes, the amazing group that the brave.
34:34
They're willing to help people even though they know it's
34:38
pretty much a losing battle, but they're still willing to help
34:41
people. But the Italy was a lawyer
34:45
senator called Simone Pillan. He's amazing guy.
34:50
I got in contact with him and, and he was contacting everybody
34:56
in Italy. And that's what that's what
34:57
happened with Italy. Anyway.
34:59
Simone Pillon is an amazing guy. Again, just wants to fight for
35:04
what's right. And it was all fully funded.
35:08
The UK didn't have to pay for anything.
35:10
There was Italy was even going to send a helicopter over.
35:15
So again, we just can't understand.
35:17
How can you say, how can you say no would go to Italy?
35:22
If Italy turned around and said the UK is right and there's
35:26
nothing they can do, then we we can accept that.
35:30
We can. We've just got to deal with it
35:32
because that's what it is. But it's like there was afraid
35:35
that in India could live and they didn't want to be ashamed
35:40
because they wasn't willing to spend the money or they didn't
35:44
think India was worth it. I don't know.
35:46
I don't know the reasons why, but it shouldn't have happened.
35:51
It's evil. It's outright evil.
35:53
I think a lot of people, especially in America, it's hard
35:55
for us to comprehend this because we, you know, if we have
35:58
the resources, especially we're in a hospital, let's say a
36:01
public hospital, even if it's someone who's on Medicaid or
36:04
whatever it might be, if they get resources, if they get
36:07
assistance, they can choose a different doctor.
36:09
You know, they can go somewhere else provided someone's paying
36:11
for it. There's a freedom of movement
36:13
and you know, a right to make decisions, especially as a
36:17
parent for the healthcare for your child to seek out the best
36:20
specialist, to change hospitals, to change treatment courses,
36:23
etcetera. But you don't have that right in
36:27
England. I didn't realize that parents
36:31
have no rights at all. And you go to a core and you've
36:35
got the Guardian, which is the Cafcaster, call it over here.
36:39
You've got the NHS and the the judge and they've all got the
36:42
same boss. They all run by the state.
36:44
So they're basically working for each other.
36:47
And whatever the NHS want, the, the judges will just stamp it.
36:51
And and to me this even though I knew I had no chance of winning
36:58
because of our corrupt fears, I still was willing to fight and
37:01
go all the way. So let's move forward then.
37:08
Italy has made this incredible offer.
37:10
They're experts waiting to care for baby Andy at the Bambino Jay
37:14
Zoo Hospital. You have this great opportunity
37:17
and it's all paid for. And there are children who are
37:20
alive and living and thriving with the same condition.
37:23
There's even a 30 year old like you said in America.
37:26
What was what did it feel like for you when you continually
37:32
asked to, to leave, to take Indy, to get this care and they
37:36
said no, we're keeping her here and we want to remove her
37:41
breathing support. When I first got the offer from
37:45
it till I was laying in bed and I got an e-mail saying that
37:50
Bindi's been granted citizenship and my heart just filled with
37:55
emotion. It like kind of brought back
37:56
faith in humanity thinking why I can hit Italy, want to come and
38:00
help my daughter and my own country don't want to help her.
38:03
So it was a bit I was kind of like gobsmacked and it just felt
38:07
amazing. And then to and I still went to
38:11
the courts to get permission. I'm thinking, well, I shouldn't
38:14
be going to court to get permission for another this
38:18
country. I can remember the, the, the
38:21
judge saying in, in, in the court to the NHS doctors and to
38:25
her saying he can't force a doctor to do anything.
38:29
But then you've got these doctors wanting to take a child
38:33
in. So why, why wouldn't let us go?
38:35
So that's just lies. And I'm, I'm sitting there
38:40
thinking, how can he refuse? How can you refuse a child who
38:45
is going to save a life? They're paying for everything.
38:48
All they wanted the UK to do was just agree and maybe just take
38:52
her an ambulance to the helicopter and they refuse that.
38:58
And it just felt like, so you inhumane and evil.
39:02
And the part where I say it felt like I was being dragged to
39:05
hell, That's what it felt like. Just felt like I was in hell.
39:11
And then how long from that point when they said, no, we're
39:15
not going to allow her to get this treatment to be taken to
39:19
Italy for the treatment until they removed her breathing
39:23
support? And that they refused and then
39:28
they was, they set a date to where it was going to remove a
39:36
breathing support. But it was, it was meant to be a
39:40
place chosen by us whether we wanted the hospital home or the
39:47
Hospice or obviously I appealed. I appealed it.
39:54
So there was, it was coming up to the day of where they was
39:57
going to take the breathing tube at and they're like, we're going
40:00
to take it out today at 2:00. And like, well, we haven't chose
40:03
where we wanted to do it yet or anything.
40:05
And plus I'm appealing it. And they're like, well, if you
40:07
don't hear anything by 2:00, we're taking it out in the
40:10
hospital that day. So I've got anxiety and I'm
40:13
stressed thinking, Oh my God, what, what are they doing and
40:17
stuff. And then obviously we appealed
40:20
it because we appealed it because.
40:25
They said that we could choose where we wanted it to happen,
40:28
but then the NHS ended up taking us back to court because they
40:31
saying we can't take a home for it to happen.
40:34
So they even stopped to come into home and so they stopped to
40:39
go into Italy, a chance to live and then they stopped coming
40:43
home to pass away. So it was just, it was just
40:47
something like other movies like how can this be happening to us?
40:53
What has Indy done to them? And they wouldn't even let her
40:57
bring her home. And the justification for not
41:01
letting her breathe, the justification, I mean, they
41:04
didn't give her the, the, the procedure to open her heart to
41:07
let her breathe. They refused that she's having
41:10
some struggling struggle to breathe.
41:12
They're going to remove her breathing support.
41:14
What was their justification? What would they say to you?
41:19
That this is the right thing for us to do, that effectively is
41:22
going to kill this baby. The basic you say it, it's, it's
41:27
in India's best interest to pass away.
41:31
And how can it be in anybody's best interest to pass away?
41:34
It was just, it was it. It's like to me, it feels like
41:40
it's, it's legalised murder. That's what I feel like.
41:42
It's not even, is it even legal? Who?
41:44
I don't know, but it's in her best interest because she may
41:50
suffer a little bit of pain that just because you suffer a little
41:52
bit of pain, then you should be sent to your death.
41:55
It's wrong. She just needed the right
41:57
treatment and the right care and she could have had a a good
42:02
quality of life and we've got professionals agreeing with us.
42:05
So the the justification was wrong.
42:10
It was just crazy. Dean, eventually you would lose
42:15
your appeal and they would forcibly, against your wishes,
42:19
against your will, remove your precious daughter's breathing
42:24
support. Can you tell us?
42:26
I can, I can imagine only how painful it was for that, for you
42:31
to watch your daughter die. Can you share us share with us
42:34
about what that experience was for you?
42:37
Just I'm sorry, I'll just get just before that the Italians,
42:40
they activated the hate convention and they activated
42:46
that on the the Wednes, the Wednesday or the first, I think
42:49
it was a Wednesday and we had a court hearing on the Friday and
42:56
the judges didn't even just they didn't even acknowledge it.
43:01
And this is surely I can a judge not acknowledge the hate
43:05
convention. It's league, it's legal.
43:08
So then on the Friday, the saying that Indy had to go to
43:11
the Hospice on the Saturday, she wasn't able to come home.
43:15
It was too unsafe for Indeed to come home.
43:18
She lives 18. We live 18 minutes away from the
43:20
hospital. The Hospice was 40 minutes away.
43:24
So how can it be too unsafe to come home?
43:26
So I can remember being at the hospital and with Claire and
43:34
only one person's allowed in the in the hospital, in the
43:39
ambulance and the transporting Indy on a bed and it just felt
43:46
it just felt cruel and evil and I had to drive there.
43:50
But Claire says when she went down to go into their ambulance,
43:53
she got escorted by police and security guards, which obviously
43:58
made us made her feel really bad and like you're being forced.
44:04
Having police with her is like crazy is it's insane.
44:10
So we're being forced to go to this Hospice and we're having to
44:15
sit there and see Indy suffer because she wasn't suffering in
44:19
the last three weeks, 4 weeks, because the infection died off.
44:24
So she was getting back to normal.
44:27
And then when they took the breathing apparatus out, she had
44:34
two feeding tubes in the nose. And it's called NJ and Ng, one
44:39
goes in the top stomach, one goes in the lower stomach.
44:43
As they've pulled the the ventilation out, which was
44:48
through the nose, it also ripped them out and they went up about
44:51
four or five inches. And whenever India was in
44:56
hospital and they moved probably an inch, she would have to have
44:58
an X-ray to make sure they're in the right place.
45:02
So obviously they've ripped them out, they've gone up 4 inches
45:04
and then they've put the mask on her because she needed the mask.
45:09
So we don't know what position them tubes was in.
45:13
And then when they first done it about 5 minutes later, Indy just
45:20
it looked as though Indy passed away straight away, which was
45:24
the doctor took his gloves off and he said I'm sorry.
45:29
And the machine did like a portable machine with the hall
45:34
monitoring stuff and it kind of just went off.
45:39
So they walked out of the room and, and I, I took the, the lead
45:43
out the machine and plugged it back in.
45:45
And then his stats came back on. So her heart rate and so she,
45:50
she come back to life, which was a big relief.
45:58
And she was, she was pretty stable.
45:59
But then when they restarted the feeds we could, I didn't realise
46:04
at the time, but you could see Indy, she had a free drainage
46:07
pipe on. So you she was tense in her
46:11
stomach like she was vomiting and then it was coming out in
46:15
the back. So I don't think then tubes was
46:17
in the right place. So I don't know if that's why
46:19
she passed away because of the tubes or it's probably them.
46:27
She didn't suffer until they sent her there.
46:33
I'm so sorry, Dean. I, I, I cannot.
46:37
It's hard to fathom the pain that you must you and Claire
46:40
must have felt watching her suffer, and needlessly,
46:45
needlessly so. She she was breathing even after
46:48
they removed the breathing support, messing up her feeding
46:52
support in the process, possibly in a severe way that led to her
46:57
death. We don't know.
46:59
She was breathing on her own. She had a she had a face mask.
47:04
The the court order said she could have a face mask off 7
47:07
days. But when they pulled the tubes
47:14
out, I don't know if it was accidental because it was all on
47:16
the same tape or or if it were, I don't know.
47:19
It seems like it was accidental. But still, if they just move up
47:24
an inch, you're supposed to have an X-ray to make sure because
47:28
you could fill your lungs up with fluid or anything.
47:30
And I've never seen her the way she was tensing like that for
47:34
like a couple of minutes contracting her stomach.
47:37
So she lasted 2, two days, but on the on the like I say, on the
47:43
next day, she was just kept contracting.
47:45
And then the mask for some reason was really humid and
47:50
there was water in the mask, big lumps of water.
47:53
But we got told we was going to a Hospice because it's better
47:56
quality to care. But the nurses only came in to
47:58
give her the medicines. That was it.
48:00
So we was left. We was left to watch her die and
48:03
suffer, which was which I'll never forgive.
48:12
It's barbaric what they did to your daughter, Dean.
48:17
I am. I am so sorry.
48:20
When, when Indy passed, what did you and what did you you and
48:25
Claire do? Well, I was really angry, to be
48:28
honest. Claire was old in Indy.
48:33
I was angry. I just wanted to get out of that
48:35
place. The the children was in the
48:36
other room like it was like a joint on flat and there was
48:40
asleep because I was forced there and we didn't want to be
48:44
there and and it just felt wrong.
48:46
Everything I was just it was 2:30 in the morning and I was
48:49
like, we need to go. I'm not staying there like it's
48:53
OK because it's not OK. So I can remember it's hot.
49:00
It was hard, but I went back in the room, gave India hugging a
49:03
kiss and told her goodbye. Sorry.
49:28
So we just, we were left, we picked the kids up, took the
49:33
stuff out and went and then a few days later they contacted me
49:45
and I had to contact to sign the death certificate.
49:49
So we went to sign the death certificate on it.
49:53
It just said mitochondria disease and a heart problem.
50:00
They said the doctor did an examiner after the death.
50:05
So I was like, whoa, I'm not signing that because I want to
50:09
know what she passed away from. And they took it to the coroner
50:13
and the coroner refused to do an inquest, which can be done by
50:19
just a scam, a simple scam. So again, more corruption.
50:30
I, I explained to him about what happened to the with the feeding
50:33
tubes to the woman in the in the office and she said she'll pass
50:37
it on to the coroner, but they didn't want to know.
50:41
And it was either going, going back to court and then the
50:47
messing about with the funeral and stuff.
50:49
I thought it's just going to be more corruption and somewhere
50:52
else. We're we're not going to win.
50:54
So I had to sign in the end with the, with the funeral, But she
51:03
did die of a condition. Some it was some of them feeding
51:07
tubes, but the one who did a coroner report so I don't know.
51:16
And if you hadn't signed it, they wouldn't have let you have
51:19
her body for the funeral. We couldn't have buried her, No.
51:25
Yeah. So it was a bit.
51:30
I didn't want to do that to her. She needed just to to rest in
51:36
peace. Dean, what do you think should
51:42
happen? You've lost your daughter to a
51:44
horribly corrupt system that killed her.
51:46
It didn't need to happen. She didn't need to die.
51:48
What do you think needs to happen in England?
51:52
We just need a law where parents have got more rights.
51:56
We should be able to, as a parent, decide if no hospital is
52:01
willing to treat them or to take them in.
52:03
Then they should be able to go or at least get other opinions
52:08
from other independent people. I can remember asking when India
52:13
was three months old if I could bring in a doctor from the
52:16
outside and they said no, it has to be NHS.
52:20
But you know, they're all colleagues, all work together.
52:23
So it's a bit, why can't I just get a doctor from abroad or, or
52:28
something like that to come in. And then you can listen to his
52:32
his report and you know it. It helps you decide things
52:36
better, understand things better.
52:38
If you've got more opinions or if there's a country or or a
52:42
hospital willing to take a child in for free, then how can it?
52:47
To me, it feels impossible that you can't let that happen.
52:51
It's just like, like, say barbaric and inhumane and, and
52:55
why it happened? Was it so it don't happen in the
52:58
future? So if if there was a letters go,
53:01
then that means they're going to have to let everybody go.
53:04
What? What's so bad about that?
53:06
If it if it can save a child's life, then if it can save a
53:08
child's life. What's next for you and Claire
53:14
Dean? Well, we're just going to try
53:18
and enjoy Christmas for the kids and then in the new year there's
53:23
a few of parents what this has happened to and that they all
53:28
want to try and get together and create a group to try and change
53:31
the law. I, I, I don't want this
53:34
happening to anybody else. It shouldn't be happening.
53:41
Other countries are even looking at us as the UK and saying what
53:45
the hell, you don't see children.
53:47
This shouldn't be happening. It's just wrong.
53:51
It's just, I just don't know how they can go away with it to be
53:53
honest. Well, we want to help you in any
53:56
way that we can, and your fight in Indy's memory, I think will
54:02
be so important for future children and their families.
54:08
I hope so. Yeah, it's been hard.
54:11
But she was. She didn't deserve to die.
54:15
She was. I'd do it all over again for
54:20
her. It's just how people can realise
54:23
how corrupt the system is now. I think people are
54:24
understanding, People just can't understand.
54:26
People are coming to me. So I just can't understand why
54:28
they didn't let her go. You know it didn't.
54:32
It wouldn't cost them anything. You get drunken people or people
54:36
on drugs go into hospitals and get all the treatment they want.
54:39
This is just a young child. Dean, is there a way people can
54:46
support you in the future and Claire and your efforts?
54:51
Just five of your children. That's don't need to support me,
54:56
just just try and give people better advice.
55:01
People have contacted me saying that the hospital wants to take
55:06
the child out of Hospice and I'm I tell them don't accept it,
55:10
Fight for your child because everybody deserves a chance to
55:15
live. If it costs one child a little
55:17
bit more money than so be it. At one point, you and Claire
55:22
decided to have Indie baptized. Is this something you had chosen
55:26
for your other kids or what was what went into your your your
55:31
thought process for making that decision?
55:33
The thing is that, you know, some people are born into
55:36
religion with the families or the mums and dads take them to
55:39
church. Me and Claire, we wasn't born
55:42
into religion. But going down what happened to
55:47
me and what I was seeing around me just felt evil.
55:49
And going to the courts, it just felt like hell.
55:52
And but like I said in some of my statements, if it's a hell,
55:55
there must be a heaven and I just want to protect in this
55:59
soul. I have one more question for
56:05
you, Dean, and that's, you know, I didn't get to really ask yet,
56:08
but how did you and Claire meet and tell me a little bit about
56:11
your family. We.
56:14
Knew each other and at school, but it wasn't until like 10
56:20
years later we're sort of talking to each other.
56:22
And then that's how we met really.
56:23
It was online on Facebook. Most people talk these days.
56:28
Then we had a Vienna who's 6 and we both got a child from
56:33
previous relationships and they're both called Olivia.
56:38
We've just recently we got sent, not sent, but Italy.
56:42
We went over to Italy recently to get an award which is on
56:46
there for for fighting and and there was really nice went to
56:50
the presidential palace to meet Alfredo Montanova.
56:55
I think his name is really nice guy who helped us in the case.
56:59
Italy has been amazing. The people were just so loving
57:02
and totally different from the UK.
57:06
They're just you can just tell they they care by each other.
57:10
And we went to Pro Vita familiar.
57:15
It's like a pro-life association.
57:18
They really helped us in the case and we met them and there
57:20
was other parents, there were the children and there was
57:23
really inspired by how we fighted for indie and and it was
57:29
really nice. So in this heart, we'll for us
57:32
always be in Italy. Well, you're, you're moral
57:39
clarity Dean, that Indy deserved to live and get the best
57:42
treatment that you could provide.
57:44
And your willingness to fight for her against tremendous
57:48
pressure, tremendous pressure from the courts, from the
57:52
hospital, from the from society, really even in UK is an example
57:57
to millions across the world. And I think your story and the
58:01
work you're going to do with these other parents next month,
58:03
I'll be praying for that is so important and can, I think make
58:08
the difference in the UK to prevent this from ever happening
58:11
again. I hope so.
58:14
I can't bear to imagine someone else's child going through it,
58:16
never mind my own. SO we'll keep fighting.
58:21
We need just, we do need justice for India and all the other
58:23
people what it's happened to. Well, Dean, once you have that
58:27
meeting and if there's a website I can direct people to, is there
58:30
a website you recommend people go to to support the cause in
58:34
the UK to change the law? Soon as one set up then I'll
58:39
I'll let you know. Definitely.
58:41
We will spread it. Far and wide.
58:43
Oh, lovely. Thank you.
58:45
Thank you so much, Dean. I really appreciate you opening
58:49
up and sharing about Indy's life, even these, even this
58:53
horrific experiences, despite the horrific experience that you
58:57
and Claire endured and that she endured.
58:59
But thank you for your courage and thanks for coming on the
59:01
podcast today. OK, no problem.
59:05
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Lila Rose
59:07
Podcast. It's hard to imagine being in
59:09
the shoes that Dean and Claire were in, watching their little
59:12
girl die, not being able to help her, watching ultimately medical
59:16
professionals who were supposed to help her, kill her.
59:19
There is a way to help Dean. I think he was too humble to
59:22
mention it, but there is a GoFundMe that can help them in
59:25
the future with legal fights for babies like Indy so that this
59:29
doesn't happen again. That link is in the bio and as
59:32
Live Action and myself learn more about how we can support
59:35
his efforts and the efforts of the parents of the late Alfie
59:38
Evans and Charlie Guard, we will absolutely let you know.
59:41
So check out that GoFundMe. Please pray.
59:44
Pray for an end to abortion. Pray for an end to euthanasia.
59:46
Pray for respect for human life and continue to spread the word
59:50
about what's really happening. The darkness will thrive in
59:54
secret, so we have to expose it. Share this podcast with 10
59:58
people, send it to a friend that will help it reach more people.
1:00:01
And continue to pray with me for an end to the culture of death
1:00:04
and for a culture of life to be renewed and that we can help be
1:00:08
a part of making it happen. OK guys, so we're on locals now.
1:00:11
locals.com is a place where you can support your favorite
1:00:14
creators, speakers, those that are creating content.
1:00:17
And what's so cool about locals.com is that it's 100% run
1:00:22
by the creator so that I can stay in touch with you even if I
1:00:25
stop using locals. This is not like Patreon.
1:00:27
It's also a free speech platform that respects the creators and
1:00:31
what they're say. They're not going to censor me
1:00:33
because we're pro-life or pro marriage or whatever it is.
1:00:35
So check out locals.com. Go to our profile.
1:00:38
It's LinkedIn, the bio Become a subscriber.
1:00:41
You can be a free subscriber and you can become a paid subscriber
1:00:44
to help the podcast reach more people.
1:00:46
Check it out today at locals.com.
1:00:48
Don't forget, as always, to subscribe to the Lila Rose
1:00:51
Podcast YouTube channel and ring that notification bell so you
1:00:54
never forget or miss another episode.
1:00:57
And if you're listening on podcasts, don't forget to
1:00:59
subscribe on Spotify or an Apple podcast and leave us a review.
1:01:03
That review helps the podcast to reach more people.
1:01:05
Thanks so much for listening. We'll see you next time.