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The Evolution of Stress: From Hunter-Gatherer to Modern Life · The Living Conversation

• 0:00
  I'm
• 0:00
  Anthony
• 0:01
  Wright
• 0:01
  and
• 0:01
  I
• 0:01
  am
• 0:02
  your
• 0:02
  co
• 0:02
  host
• 0:02
  today
• 0:03
  on
• 0:03
  the
• 0:03
  Living
• 0:03
  Conversation
• 0:04
  with
• 0:04
  Adam
• 0:05
  Dietz.
• 0:05
  Welcome
• 0:05
  to
• 0:06
  the
• 0:06
  conversation.
• 0:07
  And
• 0:07
  we're
• 0:07
  talking
• 0:08
  with
• 0:08
  our
• 0:08
  guest,
• 0:08
  Bob
• 0:09
  Martin.
• 0:09
  And
• 0:10
  Bob,
• 0:10
  before
• 0:10
  the
• 0:10
  break,
• 0:10
  you
• 0:11
  were
• 0:11
  talking
• 0:11
  about
• 0:13
  the
• 0:13
  evolution
• 0:14
  of
• 0:14
  humankind
• 0:16
  of
• 0:17
  so
• 0:17
  many
• 0:17
  generations
• 0:18
  and
• 0:19
  how
• 0:19
  we
• 0:20
  had
• 0:21
  craved
• 0:21
  fat,
• 0:22
  salt
• 0:22
  and
• 0:22
  sugar
• 0:23
  and
• 0:25
  really
• 0:25
  made
• 0:25
  a
• 0:26
  turn
• 0:26
  in
• 0:26
  our
• 0:26
  evolution
• 0:27
  from
• 0:28
  the
• 0:28
  hunter
• 0:28
  gatherer
• 0:29
  to
• 0:29
  agriculture.
• 0:30
  So
• 0:30
  please
• 0:30
  continue
• 0:31
  from
• 0:31
  there.
• 0:32
  Yeah,
• 0:32
  so
• 0:33
  if
• 0:33
  we
• 0:34
  had
• 0:34
  developed
• 0:35
  what
• 0:36
  was
• 0:36
  beneficial
• 0:36
  and
• 0:37
  helpful
• 0:37
  to
• 0:38
  us
• 0:38
  in
• 0:38
  the
• 0:38
  jungle,
• 0:39
  where
• 0:40
  we
• 0:40
  had
• 0:41
  a
• 0:41
  lot
• 0:41
  of
• 0:41
  really
• 0:42
  hard
• 0:42
  physical
• 0:42
  labor
• 0:43
  during
• 0:43
  the
• 0:43
  day
• 0:44
  and
• 0:44
  not
• 0:44
  much
• 0:45
  fat
• 0:45
  and
• 0:45
  sugar,
• 0:46
  we
• 0:47
  turn
• 0:47
  to
• 0:47
  a
• 0:48
  life
• 0:48
  now
• 0:48
  where
• 0:49
  we're
• 0:49
  sedentary
• 0:50
  and
• 0:50
  you
• 0:51
  get
• 0:51
  more
• 0:51
  fat
• 0:51
  and
• 0:51
  sugar
• 0:52
  in
• 0:52
  a
• 0:52
  McDonald's
• 0:53
  Happy
• 0:53
  Meal
• 0:54
  than
• 0:54
  you
• 0:55
  would
• 0:55
  have
• 0:55
  in
• 0:55
  the
• 0:55
  jungle.
• 0:56
  In
• 0:57
  order
• 0:57
  to
• 0:57
  keep
• 0:57
  our
• 0:58
  bodies
• 0:58
  healthy,
• 0:59
  we
• 0:59
  all
• 0:59
  know
• 0:59
  we
• 1:00
  got
• 1:00
  to
• 1:00
  go
• 1:00
  to
• 1:00
  the
• 1:00
  gym
• 1:00
  and
• 1:01
  work
• 1:01
  out.
• 1:02
  You
• 1:03
  know,
• 1:03
  you
• 1:03
  can
• 1:03
  imagine
• 1:04
  how
• 1:04
  the
• 1:04
  hunter
• 1:04
  gatherer
• 1:05
  guy
• 1:05
  from
• 1:06
  2
• 1:06
  million
• 1:06
  years
• 1:07
  ago
• 1:07
  would
• 1:07
  look
• 1:07
  at
• 1:07
  you,
• 1:08
  say,
• 1:08
  why
• 1:08
  are
• 1:08
  you
• 1:08
  lifting
• 1:09
  weights?
• 1:09
  Don't
• 1:09
  you
• 1:10
  get
• 1:10
  enough
• 1:10
  work
• 1:10
  during
• 1:11
  the
• 1:11
  day?
• 1:11
  What
• 1:12
  are
• 1:12
  you
• 1:12
  doing
• 1:12
  that
• 1:12
  for?
• 1:13
  That's
• 1:13
  gotta
• 1:13
  be
• 1:13
  nuts.
• 1:14
  So
• 1:14
  no
• 1:14
  wonder
• 1:15
  we
• 1:15
  have
• 1:15
  an
• 1:15
  obesity
• 1:16
  epidemic.
• 1:17
  So
• 1:17
  we
• 1:18
  can
• 1:18
  understand
• 1:18
  that
• 1:19
  when
• 1:19
  it
• 1:19
  comes
• 1:19
  to
• 1:20
  our
• 1:20
  body,
• 1:22
  somehow
• 1:22
  we
• 1:22
  think
• 1:22
  our
• 1:23
  mind
• 1:23
  is
• 1:23
  free
• 1:24
  from
• 1:24
  that
• 1:24
  evolutionary
• 1:25
  mistake.
• 1:26
  It's
• 1:27
  not.
• 1:28
  And
• 1:28
  so
• 1:29
  we
• 1:30
  constantly
• 1:31
  scanned
• 1:31
  for
• 1:31
  danger.
• 1:32
  And
• 1:33
  we
• 1:33
  had
• 1:33
  developed
• 1:34
  a
• 1:34
  way
• 1:34
  of
• 1:34
  dealing
• 1:35
  with
• 1:35
  danger
• 1:36
  because
• 1:36
  danger
• 1:37
  was
• 1:37
  always
• 1:38
  acute.
• 1:40
  We
• 1:40
  didn't
• 1:41
  carry
• 1:41
  over
• 1:42
  obligations,
• 1:43
  we
• 1:43
  didn't
• 1:43
  have
• 1:44
  deadlines,
• 1:45
  we
• 1:45
  didn't
• 1:45
  have
• 1:46
  three
• 1:46
  week
• 1:47
  assignments.
• 1:48
  We
• 1:48
  had
• 1:49
  daily
• 1:49
  stuff
• 1:50
  that
• 1:50
  had
• 1:50
  to
• 1:50
  be
• 1:50
  dealt
• 1:51
  with
• 1:51
  and
• 1:51
  had
• 1:51
  to
• 1:51
  be
• 1:51
  dealt
• 1:52
  with
• 1:52
  now
• 1:52
  and
• 1:53
  then.
• 1:53
  So
• 1:54
  all
• 1:54
  of
• 1:54
  the
• 1:55
  danger
• 1:55
  was
• 1:55
  acute.
• 1:56
  And
• 1:57
  our
• 1:57
  whole
• 1:57
  mechanism
• 1:58
  for
• 1:58
  stress
• 1:59
  is
• 1:59
  designed
• 2:00
  to
• 2:01
  have
• 2:01
  the
• 2:01
  adrenaline
• 2:02
  the
• 2:02
  cortisol
• 2:03
  pumps
• 2:03
  into
• 2:03
  our
• 2:03
  body
• 2:04
  from
• 2:04
  the
• 2:04
  stress.
• 2:05
  Blood
• 2:05
  pressure
• 2:06
  goes
• 2:06
  up,
• 2:07
  white
• 2:07
  corpuscles
• 2:08
  flood
• 2:08
  our
• 2:09
  body
• 2:09
  so
• 2:09
  that
• 2:10
  we
• 2:10
  can,
• 2:10
  you
• 2:11
  know,
• 2:11
  cure
• 2:11
  a
• 2:12
  wound.
• 2:12
  If
• 2:12
  we
• 2:13
  lose
• 2:13
  blood,
• 2:13
  we
• 2:13
  still
• 2:14
  have
• 2:14
  blood
• 2:14
  going
• 2:14
  to
• 2:15
  our
• 2:15
  brain.
• 2:16
  Blood
• 2:16
  pressure
• 2:17
  goes
• 2:17
  up.
• 2:18
  All
• 2:18
  of
• 2:18
  these
• 2:18
  things
• 2:19
  happen
• 2:19
  to
• 2:19
  us.
• 2:21
  Now.
• 2:21
  We
• 2:21
  don't
• 2:22
  live
• 2:22
  in
• 2:22
  a
• 2:22
  life
• 2:23
  mostly
• 2:23
  of
• 2:24
  acute
• 2:24
  danger
• 2:24
  anymore.
• 2:26
  We
• 2:26
  live
• 2:26
  a
• 2:26
  life
• 2:27
  in
• 2:27
  chronic,
• 2:28
  undifferentiated
• 2:29
  stress.
• 2:30
  Stress
• 2:31
  and
• 2:32
  danger
• 2:32
  are
• 2:32
  synonymous.
• 2:34
  The
• 2:35
  body's
• 2:35
  response
• 2:36
  to
• 2:36
  danger
• 2:36
  is
• 2:37
  stress.
• 2:37
  But
• 2:38
  we
• 2:38
  perceive
• 2:38
  our
• 2:39
  danger
• 2:39
  now
• 2:40
  as
• 2:40
  missing
• 2:40
  the
• 2:40
  deadline,
• 2:41
  not
• 2:42
  getting
• 2:42
  an
• 2:42
  A,
• 2:43
  staying
• 2:44
  out
• 2:44
  too
• 2:44
  late,
• 2:45
  running
• 2:45
  out
• 2:45
  of
• 2:46
  gas,
• 2:46
  not
• 2:46
  paying
• 2:47
  the
• 2:47
  next
• 2:47
  bill.
• 2:48
  These
• 2:48
  are
• 2:49
  all
• 2:49
  the
• 2:49
  dangers
• 2:50
  that
• 2:50
  are
• 2:50
  being
• 2:50
  presented,
• 2:51
  and
• 2:51
  they're
• 2:52
  undifferentiated
• 2:53
  and
• 2:53
  they're
• 2:53
  constant.
• 2:55
  So
• 2:55
  rather
• 2:55
  than
• 2:56
  having
• 2:56
  a
• 2:56
  stress
• 2:57
  response
• 2:57
  and
• 2:58
  either
• 2:58
  running
• 2:58
  or
• 2:59
  fleeing
• 3:00
  or
• 3:00
  fighting
• 3:01
  and
• 3:02
  burning
• 3:02
  off
• 3:03
  that
• 3:03
  stress,
• 3:04
  we're
• 3:05
  constantly
• 3:05
  being
• 3:06
  stimulated
• 3:07
  with
• 3:07
  little
• 3:07
  stressors.
• 3:09
  And
• 3:09
  our
• 3:09
  mind
• 3:09
  is
• 3:10
  Always
• 3:11
  scanning,
• 3:11
  looking
• 3:12
  for
• 3:12
  what
• 3:12
  it
• 3:13
  is
• 3:13
  that
• 3:13
  makes
• 3:14
  me
• 3:14
  feel
• 3:14
  like
• 3:14
  I'm
• 3:14
  in
• 3:15
  danger.
• 3:16
  But
• 3:17
  we
• 3:17
  can't
• 3:17
  identify
• 3:18
  it
• 3:18
  because
• 3:19
  it's
• 3:19
  a
• 3:19
  hundred
• 3:19
  little
• 3:20
  things.
• 3:21
  And
• 3:21
  so
• 3:22
  in
• 3:22
  the
• 3:22
  case
• 3:22
  of
• 3:23
  Minnesota,
• 3:23
  I'm
• 3:23
  from
• 3:24
  Minnesota,
• 3:24
  and
• 3:24
  they've
• 3:25
  been.
• 3:25
  Now
• 3:25
  that's
• 3:26
  acute.
• 3:27
  Dealing
• 3:27
  with
• 3:28
  some
• 3:28
  really
• 3:28
  difficult
• 3:29
  things
• 3:29
  there.
• 3:30
  And
• 3:30
  I'm,
• 3:30
  I'm,
• 3:31
  I'm
• 3:32
  really
• 3:32
  proud
• 3:33
  to
• 3:33
  say
• 3:33
  I'm
• 3:33
  from
• 3:33
  Minnesota
• 3:34
  in
• 3:34
  the
• 3:34
  country,.
• 3:34
  And
• 3:35
  I'm
• 3:35
  proud
• 3:35
  of
• 3:35
  you.
• 3:36
  Yeah,
• 3:36
  well,
• 3:36
  that's
• 3:37
  acute.
• 3:37
  And
• 3:38
  so
• 3:38
  of
• 3:38
  course
• 3:38
  there
• 3:38
  is
• 3:39
  that.
• 3:39
  But
• 3:40
  for
• 3:40
  the
• 3:40
  rest
• 3:40
  of
• 3:41
  the
• 3:41
  country,
• 3:41
  hearing
• 3:42
  day
• 3:42
  after
• 3:42
  day
• 3:43
  after
• 3:43
  day,
• 3:43
  this
• 3:43
  pattern
• 3:44
  of
• 3:44
  things
• 3:44
  and
• 3:45
  tariffs
• 3:45
  and
• 3:45
  this
• 3:46
  and
• 3:46
  that,
• 3:46
  you
• 3:47
  know,
• 3:47
  this
• 3:47
  is
• 3:47
  a
• 3:48
  constant
• 3:48
  barrage
• 3:49
  of
• 3:50
  small
• 3:50
  dangers
• 3:51
  that
• 3:51
  keeps
• 3:51
  us
• 3:51
  at
• 3:52
  an
• 3:52
  elevated
• 3:52
  level
• 3:53
  of
• 3:53
  stress.
• 3:54
  It
• 3:55
  is
• 3:55
  evolutionary
• 3:56
  and
• 3:56
  it
• 3:56
  is
• 3:56
  protective,
• 3:57
  and
• 3:57
  there's
• 3:57
  nothing
• 3:58
  we
• 3:58
  can
• 3:58
  do
• 3:58
  to
• 3:59
  stop
• 3:59
  that.
• 4:00
  And
• 4:00
  science
• 4:00
  has
• 4:01
  proven
• 4:01
  that,
• 4:02
  that
• 4:02
  we
• 4:02
  cannot
• 4:03
  lower
• 4:03
  our
• 4:04
  stress
• 4:04
  levels
• 4:05
  intentionally.
• 4:06
  We
• 4:06
  cannot.
• 4:08
  And
• 4:08
  you
• 4:08
  can
• 4:08
  see
• 4:09
  what
• 4:09
  the
• 4:09
  stress
• 4:09
  level
• 4:10
  is
• 4:10
  by
• 4:10
  taking
• 4:10
  a
• 4:11
  picture
• 4:11
  of
• 4:11
  the
• 4:11
  brain.
• 4:12
  And
• 4:12
  if
• 4:13
  your
• 4:13
  right
• 4:13
  hemisphere
• 4:14
  has
• 4:14
  more
• 4:15
  electrical
• 4:15
  activity,
• 4:16
  you're
• 4:17
  going
• 4:17
  to
• 4:17
  feel
• 4:17
  stressed,
• 4:18
  negative,
• 4:18
  pessimistic,
• 4:20
  hopeless,
• 4:20
  all
• 4:21
  those
• 4:21
  things.
• 4:22
  So,
• 4:22
  Bob,
• 4:22
  how
• 4:23
  do
• 4:23
  you
• 4:23
  deal
• 4:23
  with
• 4:23
  that?
• 4:23
  How
• 4:24
  do
• 4:24
  people
• 4:24
  deal
• 4:24
  with
• 4:24
  that?
• 4:25
  Here
• 4:25
  is
• 4:26
  what
• 4:26
  people
• 4:26
  don't
• 4:27
  get.
• 4:27
  And
• 4:28
  this
• 4:28
  is
• 4:28
  the
• 4:28
  biggest
• 4:29
  thing
• 4:29
  I
• 4:29
  can
• 4:30
  share.
• 4:31
  It's
• 4:32
  not
• 4:32
  about
• 4:33
  turning
• 4:34
  the
• 4:34
  stress
• 4:34
  down.
• 4:35
  It's
• 4:36
  about
• 4:36
  turning
• 4:37
  the
• 4:37
  antidotes
• 4:38
  up,
• 4:41
  increasing
• 4:42
  the
• 4:42
  electrical
• 4:43
  activity
• 4:44
  on
• 4:44
  the
• 4:44
  left
• 4:44
  side
• 4:44
  of
• 4:45
  the
• 4:45
  brain.
• 4:47
  Go
• 4:47
  out
• 4:47
  and
• 4:47
  watch
• 4:48
  a
• 4:48
  sunset.
• 4:50
  Go
• 4:50
  to
• 4:50
  a
• 4:50
  playground
• 4:51
  and
• 4:52
  watch
• 4:52
  the
• 4:52
  kids
• 4:52
  playing
• 4:54
  color.
• 4:55
  Do
• 4:56
  things
• 4:56
  that
• 4:57
  raise
• 4:57
  your
• 4:58
  sense
• 4:58
  of
• 4:58
  well
• 4:59
  being.
• 5:00
  Feel
• 5:01
  awe,
• 5:01
  expose
• 5:02
  yourself
• 5:02
  to
• 5:03
  awe.
• 5:03
  Do
• 5:04
  those
• 5:04
  things
• 5:05
  that
• 5:05
  are
• 5:06
  all
• 5:06
  about
• 5:07
  well
• 5:07
  being.
• 5:08
  Go
• 5:08
  walk
• 5:08
  in
• 5:09
  a
• 5:09
  forest.
• 5:10
  Take
• 5:10
  the
• 5:11
  time
• 5:11
  to
• 5:11
  sit,
• 5:12
  meditate,
• 5:14
  jog,
• 5:15
  walk.
• 5:16
  Do
• 5:16
  those
• 5:17
  things
• 5:17
  where
• 5:18
  you
• 5:18
  are
• 5:19
  taking
• 5:20
  care
• 5:20
  of
• 5:20
  yourself
• 5:21
  in
• 5:22
  a
• 5:22
  joyful
• 5:22
  way.
• 5:24
  You
• 5:24
  know,
• 5:24
  in,
• 5:24
  in
• 5:25
  Buddhism,
• 5:25
  they've
• 5:25
  got
• 5:26
  a
• 5:26
  very
• 5:26
  simple
• 5:27
  formula.
• 5:29
  The
• 5:29
  three
• 5:29
  stressors
• 5:31
  are
• 5:34
  wanting.
• 5:36
  I
• 5:36
  want
• 5:37
  something
• 5:37
  I
• 5:37
  don't
• 5:37
  have.
• 5:39
  Not
• 5:40
  wanting,
• 5:41
  not
• 5:41
  liking,
• 5:42
  Hate,
• 5:43
  greed,
• 5:43
  hate,
• 5:44
  but.
• 5:44
  Or
• 5:45
  in
• 5:45
  their
• 5:45
  lesser
• 5:46
  forms.
• 5:46
  And,
• 5:46
  and
• 5:46
  then
• 5:47
  ignorance.
• 5:50
  And
• 5:50
  so
• 5:50
  those
• 5:50
  are
• 5:50
  the
• 5:51
  three
• 5:51
  great
• 5:51
  stresses.
• 5:52
  The
• 5:52
  roots,
• 5:52
  they
• 5:52
  call
• 5:52
  them
• 5:53
  the
• 5:53
  three
• 5:53
  poisonous
• 5:54
  roots.
• 5:55
  I
• 5:55
  have
• 5:55
  a
• 5:55
  little
• 5:56
  story
• 5:56
  about
• 5:56
  that,
• 5:57
  Bob.
• 5:58
  A
• 5:58
  very
• 5:59
  prominent
• 5:59
  politician
• 6:01
  came
• 6:01
  on
• 6:02
  a
• 6:03
  very
• 6:03
  prominent
• 6:03
  social
• 6:04
  media
• 6:04
  site
• 6:04
  and
• 6:05
  said
• 6:05
  that
• 6:05
  college
• 6:06
  professors
• 6:06
  are
• 6:06
  the
• 6:07
  enemy.
• 6:08
  And
• 6:09
  at
• 6:10
  that
• 6:10
  time,
• 6:10
  we
• 6:10
  were
• 6:10
  still
• 6:10
  professors
• 6:11
  before
• 6:11
  they
• 6:11
  shut
• 6:11
  down
• 6:12
  the
• 6:12
  philosophy
• 6:12
  department
• 6:12
  at
• 6:13
  our
• 6:13
  university.
• 6:14
  And
• 6:15
  I
• 6:15
  said,
• 6:16
  yes,
• 6:16
  yes,
• 6:17
  I
• 6:17
  am
• 6:17
  the
• 6:17
  enemy
• 6:17
  of
• 6:18
  greed,
• 6:18
  hate
• 6:18
  and
• 6:19
  delusion.
• 6:20
  And
• 6:21
  maybe
• 6:21
  that,
• 6:22
  maybe
• 6:22
  that
• 6:22
  politician
• 6:23
  got
• 6:23
  the
• 6:23
  last
• 6:23
  laugh
• 6:24
  because
• 6:24
  maybe
• 6:24
  he
• 6:24
  had
• 6:24
  a
• 6:25
  hand
• 6:26
  in
• 6:26
  getting
• 6:26
  rid
• 6:26
  of
• 6:26
  our
• 6:26
  department.
• 6:27
  Who
• 6:27
  knows?
• 6:28
  But,
• 6:29
  but
• 6:29
  yeah,
• 6:29
  I
• 6:29
  think,
• 6:29
  I
• 6:30
  think
• 6:30
  that
• 6:30
  I,
• 6:30
  I
• 6:31
  love
• 6:31
  to
• 6:31
  hear
• 6:31
  you
• 6:32
  Describe
• 6:32
  it
• 6:32
  in
• 6:32
  that
• 6:33
  way
• 6:33
  that
• 6:34
  whenever
• 6:34
  we
• 6:34
  are
• 6:36
  feeling
• 6:36
  full
• 6:37
  and
• 6:37
  we're
• 6:37
  living
• 6:38
  in
• 6:38
  a
• 6:38
  space
• 6:38
  that
• 6:39
  is,
• 6:39
  you
• 6:40
  know,
• 6:40
  enriching
• 6:41
  and
• 6:41
  nurturing
• 6:41
  and
• 6:42
  cultivating,
• 6:43
  then
• 6:43
  those
• 6:44
  three
• 6:44
  enemies
• 6:45
  are
• 6:45
  very
• 6:46
  small
• 6:46
  and
• 6:46
  maybe
• 6:47
  even
• 6:47
  just
• 6:47
  not
• 6:47
  around
• 6:48
  at
• 6:48
  all.
• 6:49
  And
• 6:49
  vice
• 6:50
  versa.
• 6:50
  Right,
• 6:51
  right,
• 6:51
  right,
• 6:51
  right.
• 6:52
  Well,
• 6:52
  you
• 6:52
  know,
• 6:53
  the
• 6:53
  antidote
• 6:54
  to
• 6:54
  greed
• 6:54
  or
• 6:55
  wanting
• 6:55
  is
• 6:56
  to
• 6:56
  actually
• 6:57
  cultivate
• 6:59
  gre
• 7:00
  generosity
• 7:02
  and
• 7:02
  a
• 7:03
  kind
• 7:03
  of
• 7:04
  equanimity,
• 7:05
  a
• 7:05
  kind
• 7:05
  of
• 7:05
  like
• 7:06
  love
• 7:07
  of
• 7:07
  all
• 7:07
  creation,
• 7:08
  love
• 7:09
  of
• 7:09
  the
• 7:09
  earth,
• 7:09
  if
• 7:09
  you
• 7:10
  want
• 7:10
  to
• 7:10
  say,
• 7:10
  love
• 7:10
  of
• 7:11
  God,
• 7:11
  if
• 7:11
  you're
• 7:11
  religious,
• 7:12
  but
• 7:12
  to
• 7:13
  cultivate
• 7:13
  those
• 7:14
  qualities,
• 7:15
  you
• 7:15
  know,
• 7:15
  if
• 7:16
  I
• 7:16
  think,
• 7:16
  if
• 7:16
  I
• 7:17
  love
• 7:17
  you,
• 7:18
  Adam,
• 7:19
  I
• 7:19
  don't
• 7:19
  want
• 7:19
  to
• 7:19
  take
• 7:20
  your
• 7:20
  port,
• 7:21
  part
• 7:22
  your
• 7:22
  portion,
• 7:23
  I'll
• 7:24
  be
• 7:24
  happy
• 7:24
  with
• 7:24
  my
• 7:24
  portion.
• 7:25
  I'm
• 7:25
  happy
• 7:25
  to
• 7:25
  share
• 7:25
  with
• 7:26
  you.
• 7:26
  So
• 7:26
  that
• 7:27
  takes
• 7:27
  away
• 7:27
  greed,
• 7:28
  that
• 7:28
  generosity
• 7:29
  and
• 7:30
  love
• 7:30
  of
• 7:30
  creation.
• 7:31
  As
• 7:31
  far
• 7:32
  as
• 7:32
  hatred,
• 7:32
  compassion.
• 7:33
  If
• 7:33
  we
• 7:33
  cultivate
• 7:34
  compassion,
• 7:35
  you
• 7:35
  know,
• 7:35
  we.
• 7:36
  It's
• 7:36
  the
• 7:37
  antidote
• 7:37
  to
• 7:37
  hatred.
• 7:38
  And
• 7:38
  then,
• 7:39
  of
• 7:39
  course,
• 7:39
  wisdom,
• 7:41
  learning
• 7:42
  for
• 7:42
  the
• 7:42
  sake
• 7:42
  of
• 7:42
  learning,
• 7:43
  you
• 7:43
  know,
• 7:44
  is
• 7:44
  what
• 7:44
  mitigates
• 7:45
  against
• 7:45
  ignorance.
• 7:47
  All
• 7:47
  three
• 7:48
  of
• 7:48
  these,
• 7:48
  the
• 7:49
  way
• 7:49
  I
• 7:49
  used
• 7:49
  to
• 7:49
  try
• 7:49
  and
• 7:50
  teach
• 7:50
  it
• 7:50
  is
• 7:50
  that
• 7:50
  all
• 7:50
  three
• 7:50
  of
• 7:50
  these
• 7:51
  remind
• 7:51
  that
• 7:51
  when
• 7:52
  you
• 7:52
  see
• 7:52
  things
• 7:52
  at
• 7:53
  their
• 7:53
  highest
• 7:53
  level,
• 7:54
  you
• 7:54
  feel
• 7:54
  a
• 7:54
  sense
• 7:54
  of
• 7:55
  real
• 7:55
  companionship,
• 7:56
  camaraderie
• 7:57
  with
• 7:57
  them.
• 7:57
  You
• 7:57
  see
• 7:58
  the
• 7:58
  oneness
• 7:58
  in
• 7:58
  all
• 7:59
  things.
• 7:59
  And
• 8:00
  if
• 8:00
  you
• 8:00
  see
• 8:00
  the
• 8:00
  oneness
• 8:01
  in
• 8:01
  all
• 8:01
  things,
• 8:01
  of
• 8:01
  course
• 8:01
  you'll
• 8:01
  be
• 8:02
  reverential
• 8:02
  towards
• 8:02
  them,
• 8:03
  towards
• 8:03
  them.
• 8:03
  And
• 8:04
  this
• 8:04
  is
• 8:04
  having,
• 8:05
  in
• 8:05
  Confucian,
• 8:06
  this
• 8:06
  is
• 8:06
  some
• 8:06
  of
• 8:06
  the
• 8:06
  steps
• 8:06
  that
• 8:07
  then
• 8:07
  you
• 8:07
  have
• 8:07
  a
• 8:07
  correct
• 8:07
  mind,
• 8:08
  then
• 8:08
  you
• 8:09
  can,
• 8:09
  then
• 8:09
  you
• 8:09
  can
• 8:09
  act
• 8:10
  appropriately
• 8:10
  in
• 8:10
  your
• 8:11
  relationships.
• 8:12
  So
• 8:12
  that's
• 8:12
  really
• 8:13
  interesting
• 8:13
  to
• 8:13
  hear
• 8:13
  you
• 8:14
  describe
• 8:14
  it
• 8:14
  that
• 8:14
  way
• 8:14
  and
• 8:14
  very,
• 8:15
  very
• 8:15
  helpful.
• 8:15
  Thank
• 8:15
  you.
• 8:17
  Yeah,
• 8:17
  go
• 8:17
  ahead.
• 8:18
  I'm
• 8:18
  sorry,
• 8:18
  one
• 8:19
  of
• 8:19
  the
• 8:19
  things
• 8:19
  that
• 8:19
  I
• 8:19
  do
• 8:19
  want
• 8:20
  to
• 8:20
  get
• 8:20
  into
• 8:20
  before
• 8:21
  we're
• 8:22
  done,
• 8:22
  and
• 8:22
  we've
• 8:22
  got
• 8:22
  just
• 8:23
  a
• 8:23
  few
• 8:23
  minutes
• 8:23
  before
• 8:24
  the
• 8:24
  next
• 8:24
  break,
• 8:24
  but
• 8:26
  you
• 8:26
  have
• 8:26
  made
• 8:27
  a
• 8:27
  very
• 8:27
  interesting
• 8:30
  melding
• 8:31
  of
• 8:32
  Abrahamic
• 8:34
  or
• 8:34
  Abrahamic
• 8:35
  religion
• 8:36
  and
• 8:36
  Taoism
• 8:37
  in
• 8:37
  that
• 8:38
  you
• 8:38
  have
• 8:39
  the
• 8:39
  book
• 8:39
  where
• 8:41
  you
• 8:41
  take
• 8:42
  the
• 8:43
  81
• 8:43
  verses
• 8:44
  of
• 8:44
  the
• 8:44
  Tao
• 8:45
  Te
• 8:45
  Ching
• 8:46
  and
• 8:46
  bring
• 8:47
  in
• 8:49
  Abrahamic
• 8:50
  or
• 8:50
  Christian
• 8:51
  verses
• 8:52
  to
• 8:52
  those.
• 8:53
  Talk
• 8:53
  to
• 8:53
  us
• 8:53
  about
• 8:53
  what
• 8:54
  that
• 8:54
  process
• 8:54
  was
• 8:55
  like.
• 8:56
  How
• 8:56
  did
• 8:56
  you,
• 8:56
  how
• 8:57
  did
• 8:57
  you
• 8:57
  come
• 8:57
  to
• 8:57
  that?
• 8:59
  I
• 8:59
  mean,
• 9:00
  so
• 9:00
  there's
• 9:01
  the
• 9:01
  background
• 9:01
  of
• 9:01
  Matteo
• 9:02
  Ricci,
• 9:02
  who
• 9:02
  was
• 9:02
  the,
• 9:03
  the,
• 9:04
  the
• 9:05
  Jesuit
• 9:05
  monk
• 9:05
  who
• 9:06
  went
• 9:06
  to
• 9:06
  China.
• 9:07
  But
• 9:08
  continue,
• 9:08
  please.
• 9:09
  Well,
• 9:13
  two
• 9:14
  little
• 9:14
  pieces
• 9:14
  and
• 9:15
  then
• 9:15
  it's
• 9:15
  probably
• 9:16
  time
• 9:16
  for
• 9:16
  the
• 9:16
  break,
• 9:16
  but
• 9:17
  I'll
• 9:17
  tell
• 9:17
  you
• 9:17
  the
• 9:17
  real
• 9:18
  story
• 9:18
  on
• 9:19
  the
• 9:19
  other
• 9:19
  side.
• 9:19
  But
• 9:20
  sure,
• 9:20
  two
• 9:20
  pieces
• 9:21
  are
• 9:21
  my
• 9:22
  father
• 9:22
  and
• 9:22
  my
• 9:22
  mother
• 9:23
  were
• 9:23
  non
• 9:24
  religious.
• 9:26
  My
• 9:26
  father
• 9:26
  was
• 9:26
  a
• 9:26
  Hungarian
• 9:27
  royalty
• 9:28
  refugee
• 9:29
  from
• 9:30
  the
• 9:30
  Bolshevik
• 9:31
  Revolution
• 9:32
  in
• 9:34
  1917
• 9:35
  and
• 9:36
  World
• 9:36
  War
• 9:36
  I.
• 9:37
  And
• 9:39
  the
• 9:39
  Bolsheviks
• 9:41
  wiped
• 9:42
  out
• 9:42
  his
• 9:42
  entire
• 9:43
  family.
• 9:43
  My
• 9:44
  mom
• 9:44
  was
• 9:44
  Roman
• 9:44
  Gypsy.
• 9:45
  Everybody
• 9:46
  wiped
• 9:46
  out
• 9:46
  her
• 9:46
  family.
• 9:47
  So
• 9:47
  I
• 9:48
  literally
• 9:48
  have
• 9:48
  no
• 9:48
  ancestors.
• 9:49
  And
• 9:50
  they
• 9:50
  came
• 9:50
  to
• 9:50
  the
• 9:50
  conclusion
• 9:51
  that
• 9:51
  there
• 9:51
  could
• 9:52
  not
• 9:52
  be
• 9:52
  a
• 9:52
  loving
• 9:52
  God.
• 9:53
  And
• 9:53
  so
• 9:53
  they
• 9:54
  just
• 9:54
  never
• 9:54
  practiced
• 9:55
  any
• 9:55
  religion.
• 9:55
  I
• 9:55
  grew
• 9:55
  up
• 9:56
  with
• 9:56
  no
• 9:56
  religion,
• 9:57
  but
• 9:57
  my
• 9:57
  father
• 9:58
  said,
• 9:58
  we
• 9:58
  automaticans,
• 9:59
  you
• 10:00
  need
• 10:00
  to
• 10:00
  know
• 10:00
  the
• 10:01
  Bible
• 10:01
  stories.
• 10:02
  So
• 10:02
  you
• 10:02
  are
• 10:02
  going
• 10:03
  to
• 10:03
  go
• 10:03
  to
• 10:04
  children's
• 10:05
  Bible
• 10:05
  school.
• 10:07
  And
• 10:07
  he
• 10:07
  would
• 10:07
  take
• 10:08
  me
• 10:08
  on
• 10:08
  Sundays
• 10:09
  to
• 10:09
  Bible
• 10:10
  to
• 10:11
  churches
• 10:11
  where
• 10:11
  I
• 10:11
  would
• 10:12
  go
• 10:12
  in
• 10:12
  and
• 10:12
  listen
• 10:13
  to
• 10:13
  Noah's
• 10:13
  Ark
• 10:14
  and
• 10:14
  the
• 10:14
  Garden
• 10:15
  of
• 10:15
  Eden.
• 10:15
  And
• 10:16
  for
• 10:16
  me,
• 10:16
  it
• 10:16
  was
• 10:16
  all
• 10:16
  like
• 10:17
  Disney.
• 10:17
  I
• 10:20
  had
• 10:20
  never
• 10:20
  been
• 10:20
  introduced
• 10:21
  to
• 10:21
  any
• 10:21
  kind
• 10:21
  of
• 10:22
  supernatural
• 10:22
  creature.
• 10:23
  So
• 10:23
  for
• 10:23
  me
• 10:23
  it
• 10:23
  was
• 10:24
  all
• 10:24
  interesting.
• 10:25
  But
• 10:25
  they
• 10:25
  kept
• 10:26
  telling
• 10:26
  me,
• 10:27
  there
• 10:27
  is
• 10:27
  this
• 10:28
  guy
• 10:29
  and
• 10:29
  he
• 10:29
  loves
• 10:30
  you
• 10:31
  and
• 10:31
  he's
• 10:32
  up
• 10:32
  there
• 10:32
  somewhere
• 10:32
  or
• 10:33
  he's.
• 10:34
  I
• 10:34
  know
• 10:34
  a
• 10:34
  guy,
• 10:35
  I
• 10:35
  got
• 10:35
  a
• 10:35
  guy,
• 10:35
  he
• 10:36
  loves
• 10:36
  you.
• 10:36
  And
• 10:37
  they
• 10:37
  all
• 10:37
  said
• 10:37
  the
• 10:38
  same
• 10:38
  thing.
• 10:38
  I
• 10:39
  did
• 10:39
  become
• 10:39
  convinced
• 10:40
  that
• 10:40
  there
• 10:40
  was
• 10:41
  somebody
• 10:41
  in
• 10:41
  the
• 10:41
  universe
• 10:42
  that
• 10:42
  loved
• 10:42
  me.
• 10:43
  So
• 10:44
  that
• 10:44
  is
• 10:44
  a
• 10:44
  piece
• 10:45
  of
• 10:45
  the
• 10:45
  story
• 10:46
  that
• 10:46
  was
• 10:47
  always
• 10:47
  residing
• 10:48
  there.
• 10:51
  And
• 10:51
  so.
• 10:52
  And
• 10:52
  then,
• 10:52
  of
• 10:53
  course,
• 10:53
  came
• 10:53
  my
• 10:53
  experience
• 10:54
  with
• 10:55
  me.
• 10:55
  And
• 10:56
  I
• 10:56
  didn't
• 10:57
  have
• 10:57
  to
• 10:58
  believe
• 10:58
  in
• 10:58
  any
• 10:59
  kind.
• 10:59
  Of.
• 10:59
  Any
• 10:59
  kind
• 11:00
  of
• 11:00
  God
• 11:00
  or
• 11:00
  any
• 11:00
  kind
• 11:01
  of
• 11:01
  angels
• 11:01
  or
• 11:02
  cherubs
• 11:03
  with
• 11:03
  that.
• 11:04
  And
• 11:04
  so
• 11:04
  I
• 11:05
  started
• 11:05
  to
• 11:05
  develop
• 11:06
  the
• 11:06
  wisdom
• 11:06
  of
• 11:07
  that.
• 11:08
  So
• 11:08
  those
• 11:08
  kind
• 11:09
  of
• 11:09
  two
• 11:09
  things
• 11:09
  resided
• 11:10
  in
• 11:10
  me.
• 11:12
  And
• 11:13
  then
• 11:13
  I
• 11:13
  went
• 11:13
  through
• 11:14
  life
• 11:14
  and
• 11:15
  I
• 11:15
  met
• 11:15
  my
• 11:15
  current
• 11:16
  wife.
• 11:17
  And
• 11:17
  here
• 11:17
  comes
• 11:18
  the
• 11:18
  story,
• 11:18
  if
• 11:18
  we.
• 11:19
  Have
• 11:19
  time,
• 11:20
  well,
• 11:20
  just
• 11:20
  a
• 11:21
  couple
• 11:21
  minutes
• 11:22
  and
• 11:22
  then
• 11:22
  we
• 11:22
  can
• 11:22
  talk.
• 11:23
  Pick
• 11:23
  it
• 11:23
  up
• 11:23
  on
• 11:23
  the
• 11:23
  other
• 11:24
  side.
• 11:24
  And
• 11:24
  I
• 11:24
  just
• 11:25
  wanted
• 11:25
  to
• 11:25
  say
• 11:26
  about.
• 11:28
  In
• 11:28
  a
• 11:28
  manner
• 11:29
  of
• 11:29
  speaking,
• 11:30
  Asian
• 11:31
  religions
• 11:32
  are
• 11:32
  a
• 11:32
  little
• 11:33
  less
• 11:33
  personal,
• 11:33
  but
• 11:34
  Abrahamic
• 11:35
  religions
• 11:35
  are
• 11:36
  quite
• 11:36
  personal.
• 11:37
  Yes.
• 11:38
  I
• 11:39
  mean,
• 11:39
  in
• 11:39
  terms
• 11:39
  of.
• 11:40
  Personal.
• 11:41
  In
• 11:41
  terms
• 11:41
  of
• 11:42
  a
• 11:42
  person's
• 11:43
  relationship
• 11:43
  with
• 11:44
  God,
• 11:44
  yes.
• 11:45
  Huh?
• 11:46
  Yeah.
• 11:46
  Yeah.
• 11:46
  Oh,
• 11:46
  no,
• 11:47
  very
• 11:47
  much
• 11:47
  so.
• 11:47
  I
• 11:48
  mean,
• 11:48
  it's
• 11:48
  all
• 11:48
  about
• 11:49
  the
• 11:49
  relationship.
• 11:50
  So
• 11:50
  you
• 11:50
  came
• 11:51
  to
• 11:51
  this
• 11:53
  through
• 11:53
  your
• 11:54
  relationship
• 11:54
  with
• 11:55
  your
• 11:55
  wife,
• 11:55
  who
• 11:56
  was
• 11:56
  a.
• 11:56
  Southern
• 11:57
  Baptist
• 11:58
  Bible
• 11:59
  literalist.
• 12:01
  And
• 12:01
  in
• 12:02
  terms
• 12:02
  of
• 12:02
  a
• 12:02
  literalist,
• 12:03
  you're.
• 12:03
  Talking
• 12:03
  about
• 12:04
  that
• 12:04
  she
• 12:04
  believes
• 12:05
  in
• 12:05
  the
• 12:05
  Bible,
• 12:05
  literally.
• 12:06
  Inerrancy.
• 12:08
  No,
• 12:08
  she.
• 12:09
  Well,
• 12:09
  I
• 12:09
  don't
• 12:10
  know
• 12:10
  about
• 12:10
  inerrancy.
• 12:11
  I
• 12:11
  don't
• 12:11
  think
• 12:11
  she's
• 12:11
  ever
• 12:12
  thought
• 12:12
  about
• 12:12
  that
• 12:13
  too
• 12:13
  deeply.
• 12:13
  But
• 12:13
  she
• 12:14
  believes
• 12:14
  in
• 12:14
  the
• 12:15
  Garden
• 12:15
  of
• 12:15
  Eden,
• 12:15
  she
• 12:15
  believes
• 12:16
  in
• 12:16
  Noah's
• 12:16
  Ark.
• 12:17
  She
• 12:17
  believes
• 12:17
  in
• 12:17
  all
• 12:17
  the
• 12:17
  Bible
• 12:18
  stories.
• 12:18
  She
• 12:19
  believes
• 12:19
  all
• 12:19
  the
• 12:19
  history
• 12:19
  of
• 12:20
  the
• 12:20
  Bible
• 12:20
  is
• 12:20
  factual.
• 12:21
  Okay.
• 12:22
  All
• 12:22
  right.
• 12:24
  She
• 12:25
  had
• 12:25
  an
• 12:25
  interesting
• 12:25
  revelation
• 12:26
  when
• 12:26
  I
• 12:26
  brought
• 12:27
  her
• 12:27
  to
• 12:27
  the
• 12:27
  Museum
• 12:28
  of
• 12:28
  Natural
• 12:28
  History
• 12:29
  in
• 12:29
  New
• 12:29
  York,
• 12:30
  down
• 12:30
  to
• 12:30
  see
• 12:30
  Lucy
• 12:31
  and
• 12:31
  the
• 12:32
  Mural
• 12:33
  of
• 12:33
  Evolution.
• 12:34
  She
• 12:34
  had
• 12:34
  a
• 12:34
  little.
• 12:35
  It
• 12:35
  was
• 12:35
  an
• 12:35
  interesting
• 12:36
  moment.
• 12:37
  And
• 12:37
  then
• 12:37
  when
• 12:38
  she
• 12:38
  had
• 12:38
  to
• 12:38
  deal
• 12:38
  with
• 12:39
  the
• 12:39
  gay
• 12:39
  question
• 12:40
  right
• 12:41
  Right.
• 12:41
  Was
• 12:41
  a,
• 12:41
  was
• 12:42
  a
• 12:42
  big
• 12:43
  moment
• 12:43
  for
• 12:43
  her.
• 12:44
  Yeah.
• 12:45
  Yeah.
• 12:45
  Well,
• 12:45
  we're
• 12:45
  coming
• 12:45
  up
• 12:46
  on
• 12:46
  a
• 12:46
  break.
• 12:46
  I'm
• 12:47
  Anthony
• 12:47
  Wright.
• 12:47
  I
• 12:48
  am
• 12:48
  your
• 12:48
  co
• 12:48
  host
• 12:49
  on
• 12:49
  the
• 12:49
  Living
• 12:50
  Conversation
• 12:50
  with
• 12:51
  Adam
• 12:51
  Dietz.
• 12:52
  Welcome.
• 12:53
  Thanks
• 12:53
  for
• 12:53
  joining.
• 12:54
  We're,
• 12:55
  we're
• 12:55
  talking
• 12:55
  with
• 12:55
  our
• 12:55
  guest
• 12:56
  Bob
• 12:56
  Martin.
• 12:57
  And
• 12:57
  how
• 12:57
  can
• 12:57
  people
• 12:57
  contact
• 12:58
  you,
• 12:58
  Bob,.
• 12:58
  At
• 12:59
  my
• 12:59
  email
• 13:00
  iambob
• 13:01
  martingmail.com
• 13:03
  or
• 13:04
  through
• 13:04
  my
• 13:05
  website,
• 13:05
  A
• 13:05
  Wise
• 13:06
  and
• 13:06
  Happy
• 13:06
  Life.
• 13:08
  Great.
• 13:08
  We'll
• 13:09
  take
• 13:09
  a
• 13:09
  short
• 13:09
  break
• 13:09
  and
• 13:09
  be
• 13:10
  right
• 13:10
  back.
• 13:10
  So
• 13:10
  stay
• 13:11
  tuned.
• 13:12
  And
• 13:12
  I
• 13:12
  am
• 13:13
  Anthony
• 13:13
  Wright,
• 13:15
  your
• 13:15
  co
• 13:15
  host
• 13:15
  today
• 13:16
  on
• 13:16
  the
• 13:16
  Living
• 13:17
  Conversation
• 13:17
  with
• 13:18
  Adam
• 13:18
  Dietz.
• 13:19
  Welcome.
• 13:19
  And
• 13:20
  we're
• 13:20
  talking
• 13:21
  with
• 13:21
  our
• 13:21
  guest
• 13:21
  Bob
• 13:22
  Martin.
• 13:22
  And
• 13:23
  Bob,
• 13:24
  before
• 13:24
  the
• 13:24
  break,
• 13:25
  I
• 13:25
  was
• 13:25
  very
• 13:26
  interested
• 13:26
  in
• 13:26
  your
• 13:27
  work
• 13:28
  about
• 13:29
  making
• 13:29
  correlations
• 13:30
  between
• 13:31
  Daoism
• 13:32
  and
• 13:33
  Abraham,
• 13:34
  Abrahamic
• 13:34
  or
• 13:35
  Abrahamic
• 13:35
  religion
• 13:36
  in
• 13:36
  terms
• 13:36
  of
• 13:37
  bringing
• 13:37
  Christian
• 13:38
  verses
• 13:38
  to
• 13:39
  Taoist
• 13:41
  and
• 13:42
  verses
• 13:43
  in
• 13:43
  the
• 13:43
  Dao
• 13:44
  Te
• 13:44
  Ching.
• 13:45
  And
• 13:45
  you
• 13:45
  were
• 13:45
  speaking
• 13:45
  about
• 13:46
  your
• 13:46
  wife
• 13:47
  who
• 13:47
  was
• 13:47
  a
• 13:48
  devout
• 13:50
  Southern
• 13:50
  Baptist.
• 13:51
  So
• 13:52
  please
• 13:52
  continue
• 13:52
  with
• 13:53
  that
• 13:53
  story.
• 13:54
  Well,
• 13:54
  you
• 13:54
  know,
• 13:55
  being
• 13:56
  a,
• 13:56
  a,
• 13:56
  having
• 13:57
  grown
• 13:57
  up
• 13:57
  in
• 13:58
  the
• 13:58
  south
• 13:58
  and
• 13:59
  being
• 13:59
  in
• 14:00
  the
• 14:00
  Baptist
• 14:01
  vein,
• 14:01
  which
• 14:02
  is
• 14:02
  mostly
• 14:03
  a,
• 14:03
  a
• 14:04
  literalist,
• 14:05
  I'm
• 14:05
  not
• 14:05
  going
• 14:05
  to
• 14:05
  say
• 14:06
  evangelical.
• 14:07
  I
• 14:08
  think
• 14:08
  that
• 14:08
  word
• 14:08
  has
• 14:08
  a
• 14:09
  lot
• 14:09
  of
• 14:09
  baggage
• 14:09
  these
• 14:10
  days.
• 14:10
  But,
• 14:11
  but
• 14:11
  she
• 14:12
  was,
• 14:12
  she
• 14:13
  believed
• 14:13
  in
• 14:13
  the
• 14:13
  Bible's
• 14:14
  stories
• 14:14
  and
• 14:15
  the
• 14:15
  history
• 14:15
  of
• 14:15
  the
• 14:15
  Bible
• 14:16
  as
• 14:16
  factual
• 14:17
  and
• 14:18
  the
• 14:19
  like.
• 14:19
  And
• 14:19
  she
• 14:19
  thought
• 14:20
  that
• 14:20
  my
• 14:20
  stuff
• 14:21
  was
• 14:21
  just
• 14:22
  plain
• 14:22
  weird
• 14:23
  and
• 14:24
  I
• 14:24
  just
• 14:24
  couldn't
• 14:25
  buy
• 14:25
  her
• 14:25
  science,
• 14:26
  you
• 14:26
  know,
• 14:26
  the
• 14:26
  world
• 14:27
  being
• 14:27
  4000
• 14:27
  years
• 14:28
  old
• 14:28
  and
• 14:29
  those
• 14:29
  kinds
• 14:29
  of
• 14:29
  things.
• 14:33
  So
• 14:33
  a
• 14:34
  lot
• 14:34
  of
• 14:34
  people
• 14:34
  say,
• 14:35
  you
• 14:35
  know,
• 14:35
  what
• 14:36
  brought
• 14:36
  you
• 14:36
  guys
• 14:37
  together?
• 14:37
  And
• 14:37
  I
• 14:38
  will
• 14:38
  tell
• 14:38
  you
• 14:38
  that
• 14:39
  my
• 14:39
  wife
• 14:39
  is,
• 14:40
  in
• 14:40
  Buddhist
• 14:41
  terms,
• 14:41
  a
• 14:41
  bodhisattva.
• 14:43
  She
• 14:44
  is
• 14:44
  a
• 14:45
  saint.
• 14:47
  Let
• 14:47
  me
• 14:47
  define
• 14:48
  Bodhisattva
• 14:48
  for
• 14:49
  a
• 14:49
  moment.
• 14:49
  A
• 14:49
  bodhisattva
• 14:50
  is
• 14:50
  somebody
• 14:51
  that
• 14:51
  is
• 14:51
  so
• 14:52
  kind
• 14:53
  of
• 14:53
  such
• 14:54
  complete
• 14:55
  generosity
• 14:56
  that
• 14:56
  they
• 14:56
  choose
• 14:57
  not
• 14:57
  to
• 14:57
  go
• 14:57
  to
• 14:58
  heaven
• 14:58
  so
• 14:59
  that
• 14:59
  they
• 14:59
  can
• 14:59
  help
• 14:59
  other
• 15:00
  people
• 15:00
  get
• 15:00
  there.
• 15:02
  That
• 15:02
  kind
• 15:03
  of
• 15:03
  immense
• 15:04
  generosity.
• 15:04
  That's
• 15:05
  who
• 15:05
  she
• 15:05
  is.
• 15:06
  She
• 15:06
  sees
• 15:06
  somebody
• 15:07
  that's
• 15:07
  in
• 15:07
  need
• 15:07
  of
• 15:08
  help,
• 15:08
  she
• 15:08
  will
• 15:08
  move
• 15:09
  into
• 15:09
  it.
• 15:09
  And
• 15:09
  if
• 15:09
  somebody
• 15:10
  applauds
• 15:11
  her
• 15:11
  for
• 15:12
  it,
• 15:12
  she
• 15:12
  is
• 15:12
  curious
• 15:13
  as
• 15:13
  to
• 15:14
  why
• 15:15
  they
• 15:15
  would
• 15:15
  applaud
• 15:16
  her
• 15:16
  for
• 15:16
  it.
• 15:16
  Obviously
• 15:17
  it
• 15:17
  needed
• 15:17
  to
• 15:18
  be
• 15:18
  done.
• 15:19
  That's
• 15:19
  just
• 15:19
  who
• 15:20
  she
• 15:20
  is.
• 15:21
  And
• 15:22
  so
• 15:22
  we
• 15:22
  met
• 15:22
  on
• 15:23
  our
• 15:23
  values,
• 15:24
  but
• 15:24
  our
• 15:25
  cosmologies
• 15:26
  were
• 15:26
  so
• 15:26
  different.
• 15:29
  So
• 15:29
  one
• 15:29
  day
• 15:30
  she
• 15:31
  came
• 15:31
  home
• 15:31
  and
• 15:31
  she
• 15:32
  was
• 15:32
  kind
• 15:32
  of
• 15:32
  telling
• 15:32
  me
• 15:33
  about
• 15:33
  what
• 15:33
  the
• 15:34
  pastor
• 15:34
  said
• 15:34
  and
• 15:34
  it
• 15:34
  really
• 15:35
  had
• 15:35
  moved
• 15:35
  her.
• 15:36
  And
• 15:36
  I
• 15:36
  was
• 15:36
  thinking,
• 15:37
  you
• 15:37
  know,
• 15:38
  that's
• 15:38
  the
• 15:38
  same
• 15:38
  thing
• 15:39
  as,
• 15:39
  you
• 15:39
  know,
• 15:39
  chapter
• 15:39
  five
• 15:40
  of
• 15:40
  the
• 15:40
  Tao
• 15:41
  Te
• 15:41
  Ching,
• 15:41
  which
• 15:41
  is
• 15:42
  the
• 15:42
  seminal
• 15:42
  book
• 15:43
  of
• 15:43
  Buddhism.
• 15:44
  So
• 15:45
  I
• 15:45
  went
• 15:45
  and
• 15:45
  read
• 15:45
  chapter
• 15:46
  five
• 15:46
  again
• 15:47
  and
• 15:47
  I
• 15:48
  said,
• 15:48
  yeah,
• 15:49
  this
• 15:49
  Is
• 15:49
  this
• 15:50
  is
• 15:50
  it?
• 15:51
  I
• 15:51
  think
• 15:51
  it
• 15:51
  had
• 15:52
  to
• 15:52
  do
• 15:52
  with
• 15:53
  Jesus's
• 15:55
  having
• 15:56
  returned
• 15:56
  and
• 15:57
  talked
• 15:57
  to
• 15:58
  the,
• 15:58
  to
• 15:59
  the
• 15:59
  disciples
• 16:00
  and
• 16:00
  then
• 16:01
  he
• 16:02
  arose
• 16:03
  to
• 16:03
  heaven.
• 16:03
  And
• 16:04
  I
• 16:04
  was
• 16:04
  thinking
• 16:04
  that
• 16:05
  Lao
• 16:05
  Tzu
• 16:05
  said
• 16:06
  that
• 16:06
  if
• 16:07
  you
• 16:07
  are
• 16:07
  called
• 16:07
  upon
• 16:08
  to
• 16:08
  be
• 16:08
  a
• 16:08
  leader,
• 16:08
  do
• 16:09
  your
• 16:09
  work
• 16:09
  and
• 16:09
  then
• 16:10
  step
• 16:10
  down.
• 16:11
  And
• 16:11
  Jesus
• 16:12
  did
• 16:12
  his
• 16:12
  work
• 16:12
  and
• 16:13
  then
• 16:13
  he,
• 16:14
  he
• 16:14
  returned.
• 16:15
  He
• 16:15
  left.
• 16:15
  He
• 16:16
  left
• 16:16
  and
• 16:16
  thus
• 16:17
  his
• 16:17
  work
• 16:17
  has
• 16:17
  become
• 16:18
  eternal,
• 16:18
  as
• 16:19
  it
• 16:19
  says.
• 16:19
  And
• 16:20
  I
• 16:20
  said,
• 16:21
  so
• 16:21
  I
• 16:22
  started
• 16:22
  thinking,
• 16:23
  wow,
• 16:23
  there's
• 16:23
  so
• 16:24
  many
• 16:24
  things.
• 16:24
  Things.
• 16:25
  So
• 16:25
  thank
• 16:26
  you,
• 16:26
  Google.
• 16:27
  I
• 16:27
  would
• 16:27
  read,
• 16:29
  I
• 16:29
  would
• 16:29
  read
• 16:30
  something
• 16:30
  in
• 16:30
  the
• 16:30
  data
• 16:31
  Jing
• 16:31
  and
• 16:32
  I
• 16:32
  would
• 16:32
  say,
• 16:32
  okay,
• 16:33
  what
• 16:33
  does
• 16:33
  the
• 16:33
  Bible
• 16:33
  say
• 16:34
  about
• 16:34
  humility?
• 16:35
  And
• 16:35
  then
• 16:36
  I
• 16:36
  would
• 16:36
  get
• 16:36
  all
• 16:37
  of
• 16:37
  these
• 16:37
  quotes
• 16:38
  out
• 16:38
  of
• 16:38
  the
• 16:38
  Bible.
• 16:38
  I
• 16:39
  say,
• 16:39
  well,
• 16:39
  that
• 16:39
  is
• 16:39
  the
• 16:40
  same
• 16:40
  one
• 16:40
  as
• 16:40
  that.
• 16:41
  And
• 16:42
  so
• 16:42
  then
• 16:43
  I
• 16:43
  just
• 16:44
  started
• 16:44
  thinking,
• 16:45
  let
• 16:45
  me
• 16:45
  take
• 16:46
  a
• 16:46
  couple
• 16:46
  of
• 16:46
  these
• 16:46
  chapters
• 16:47
  and
• 16:47
  see
• 16:48
  if
• 16:48
  I
• 16:48
  can
• 16:48
  reimagine
• 16:49
  them
• 16:50
  in
• 16:50
  Christian
• 16:51
  terminology.
• 16:54
  And
• 16:55
  it's
• 16:55
  really
• 16:56
  hard
• 16:56
  to
• 16:56
  go
• 16:57
  from
• 16:58
  a
• 16:58
  God
• 16:59
  oriented
• 16:59
  system
• 17:00
  to
• 17:00
  a
• 17:01
  non
• 17:01
  God
• 17:02
  oriented
• 17:02
  system.
• 17:04
  And
• 17:04
  I
• 17:05
  don't
• 17:05
  think
• 17:05
  I
• 17:05
  could
• 17:06
  have
• 17:06
  done
• 17:06
  it
• 17:07
  if
• 17:07
  I
• 17:07
  didn't
• 17:07
  have
• 17:08
  a
• 17:08
  deep
• 17:09
  understanding
• 17:10
  of
• 17:10
  Daoism
• 17:11
  because
• 17:12
  even
• 17:13
  though
• 17:13
  the
• 17:13
  Dao
• 17:14
  may
• 17:14
  say
• 17:14
  this,
• 17:15
  it's
• 17:16
  not
• 17:16
  a
• 17:16
  literal
• 17:18
  thing.
• 17:18
  It's
• 17:19
  not
• 17:19
  a
• 17:19
  literal
• 17:20
  translation.
• 17:22
  It's.
• 17:22
  I
• 17:23
  get
• 17:23
  what
• 17:23
  Lao
• 17:24
  Tzu
• 17:24
  was
• 17:24
  saying
• 17:26
  and
• 17:26
  there
• 17:26
  are
• 17:27
  other
• 17:27
  things
• 17:27
  in
• 17:28
  Daoist
• 17:29
  terminology
• 17:30
  that
• 17:30
  really
• 17:30
  fit
• 17:31
  better.
• 17:31
  And
• 17:31
  so
• 17:31
  I
• 17:32
  kind
• 17:32
  of
• 17:32
  weaved
• 17:32
  in
• 17:33
  some
• 17:33
  Daoism
• 17:34
  with
• 17:35
  keeping
• 17:36
  the
• 17:36
  idea
• 17:36
  basically
• 17:37
  the
• 17:37
  same
• 17:37
  and
• 17:38
  wrote
• 17:39
  something
• 17:39
  that
• 17:39
  was
• 17:40
  as
• 17:40
  pithy
• 17:40
  and
• 17:41
  in
• 17:41
  the
• 17:41
  same
• 17:41
  format
• 17:42
  and
• 17:42
  at
• 17:42
  the
• 17:43
  same
• 17:43
  pace
• 17:44
  as
• 17:44
  the
• 17:44
  Dao
• 17:44
  de
• 17:44
  Jing,
• 17:45
  which
• 17:45
  is
• 17:45
  almost
• 17:45
  poetic.
• 17:48
  And
• 17:48
  I
• 17:49
  showed
• 17:49
  it
• 17:49
  to
• 17:49
  her
• 17:50
  and
• 17:50
  she
• 17:50
  goes,
• 17:51
  oh,
• 17:51
  this
• 17:51
  ain't
• 17:52
  this
• 17:52
  in
• 17:52
  weird.
• 17:53
  Nothing
• 17:53
  weird
• 17:54
  about
• 17:55
  is
• 17:55
  nothing
• 17:55
  weird
• 17:56
  about
• 17:56
  this.
• 17:57
  Yeah,
• 17:57
  yeah.
• 17:58
  Oh,
• 17:58
  now
• 17:59
  he
• 17:59
  goes,
• 17:59
  oh,
• 18:00
  now
• 18:00
  you're
• 18:00
  getting
• 18:01
  it.
• 18:03
  Okay,
• 18:03
  now
• 18:04
  you're
• 18:04
  getting
• 18:04
  it.
• 18:04
  So
• 18:05
  I
• 18:05
  did
• 18:05
  another
• 18:05
  and
• 18:06
  I
• 18:06
  did
• 18:06
  another
• 18:06
  and
• 18:06
  I
• 18:06
  did
• 18:07
  another.
• 18:07
  Finally
• 18:07
  I
• 18:08
  wound
• 18:08
  up
• 18:08
  doing
• 18:09
  all
• 18:09
  81.
• 18:10
  And.
• 18:11
  And
• 18:12
  as
• 18:12
  she
• 18:12
  would
• 18:13
  say,
• 18:13
  God
• 18:14
  had
• 18:14
  a
• 18:14
  plan.
• 18:15
  She
• 18:15
  would
• 18:15
  say,
• 18:16
  because
• 18:17
  I
• 18:17
  was
• 18:18
  at
• 18:18
  school
• 18:18
  and
• 18:19
  a
• 18:20
  textbook
• 18:21
  salesperson
• 18:22
  had
• 18:22
  a
• 18:23
  conversation,
• 18:23
  somehow
• 18:24
  we
• 18:24
  started
• 18:24
  talking
• 18:24
  about
• 18:25
  my
• 18:25
  writing.
• 18:25
  And
• 18:26
  she
• 18:26
  goes,
• 18:26
  we
• 18:26
  have
• 18:27
  a
• 18:27
  niche
• 18:27
  publisher
• 18:28
  that
• 18:28
  would
• 18:29
  love
• 18:29
  this.
• 18:30
  And
• 18:30
  she
• 18:30
  gave
• 18:31
  me
• 18:31
  a
• 18:31
  referral
• 18:32
  and
• 18:32
  they
• 18:32
  took
• 18:33
  a
• 18:33
  look
• 18:33
  at
• 18:33
  it
• 18:33
  and
• 18:33
  they
• 18:34
  said,
• 18:34
  yeah,
• 18:34
  we
• 18:34
  want
• 18:35
  to
• 18:35
  publish
• 18:35
  this.
• 18:36
  And
• 18:36
  now
• 18:36
  what,
• 18:36
  what's
• 18:37
  really
• 18:37
  exciting
• 18:38
  is
• 18:38
  I
• 18:38
  just
• 18:39
  got
• 18:40
  an
• 18:40
  offer
• 18:41
  from
• 18:41
  commercial
• 18:42
  publishers
• 18:42
  Hong
• 18:43
  Kong
• 18:44
  that
• 18:44
  they
• 18:45
  want,
• 18:45
  they
• 18:46
  want
• 18:46
  to
• 18:47
  buy
• 18:47
  the
• 18:47
  rights
• 18:48
  from
• 18:48
  me
• 18:48
  to
• 18:48
  translate
• 18:49
  it
• 18:49
  into
• 18:49
  Chinese
• 18:50
  and
• 18:51
  distribute
• 18:51
  it.
• 18:52
  And
• 18:52
  their
• 18:53
  first
• 18:53
  printing
• 18:54
  will
• 18:54
  be
• 18:54
  30,000
• 18:55
  copies.
• 18:56
  Wow,
• 18:56
  great.
• 18:57
  And
• 18:58
  distributed
• 18:58
  in
• 18:58
  Chinese.
• 18:59
  Congratulations.
• 19:00
  So
• 19:00
  I
• 19:01
  am
• 19:01
  so
• 19:01
  excited
• 19:02
  about
• 19:02
  that.
• 19:02
  Thank
• 19:02
  you
• 19:02
  so
• 19:03
  much.
• 19:03
  You
• 19:04
  Know,
• 19:05
  earlier
• 19:05
  in
• 19:05
  our.
• 19:06
  One
• 19:06
  of
• 19:06
  the
• 19:06
  sections
• 19:07
  earlier
• 19:07
  in
• 19:07
  the
• 19:07
  interview,
• 19:08
  you
• 19:08
  were
• 19:08
  talking
• 19:08
  about
• 19:10
  a
• 19:10
  flow
• 19:10
  state.
• 19:12
  And
• 19:14
  in
• 19:14
  a
• 19:15
  way,
• 19:16
  I.
• 19:17
  There
• 19:17
  was
• 19:17
  an
• 19:18
  evangelical
• 19:19
  acquaintance
• 19:20
  of
• 19:20
  mine
• 19:21
  who
• 19:21
  came
• 19:21
  to
• 19:22
  me
• 19:22
  and
• 19:22
  said,
• 19:22
  anthony,
• 19:22
  you're
• 19:23
  so
• 19:23
  spiritual.
• 19:23
  How
• 19:23
  can
• 19:24
  you
• 19:24
  be
• 19:24
  so
• 19:24
  spiritual
• 19:25
  and
• 19:25
  not
• 19:25
  be
• 19:25
  Christian?
• 19:26
  And
• 19:26
  I
• 19:27
  said,
• 19:27
  well,
• 19:27
  I
• 19:27
  study
• 19:28
  Buddhism
• 19:28
  and
• 19:28
  Taoism.
• 19:29
  And
• 19:29
  he
• 19:29
  talked
• 19:29
  to
• 19:29
  me.
• 19:29
  He
• 19:30
  said,
• 19:30
  well,
• 19:30
  tell
• 19:30
  me
• 19:30
  about
• 19:30
  Buddhism.
• 19:31
  And
• 19:32
  I
• 19:32
  thought
• 19:32
  about
• 19:32
  the
• 19:32
  Diamond
• 19:33
  Sutra.
• 19:34
  And
• 19:34
  in
• 19:35
  the
• 19:35
  Diamond
• 19:35
  Sutra,
• 19:36
  Subuti
• 19:37
  Buddha's
• 19:37
  disciple
• 19:38
  said,
• 19:38
  oh,
• 19:38
  Lord
• 19:38
  Buddha,
• 19:39
  your
• 19:39
  merit
• 19:39
  is
• 19:39
  greater
• 19:39
  than
• 19:40
  any.
• 19:40
  All
• 19:40
  the
• 19:41
  numerous
• 19:41
  grains
• 19:42
  of
• 19:42
  San
• 19:42
  and
• 19:42
  the
• 19:42
  Ganges.
• 19:43
  And
• 19:43
  Buddha
• 19:43
  said,
• 19:43
  just
• 19:43
  so
• 19:44
  Saudi,
• 19:44
  but
• 19:45
  that's
• 19:45
  only
• 19:45
  a
• 19:45
  way
• 19:45
  of
• 19:46
  talking
• 19:46
  about
• 19:46
  it.
• 19:47
  So
• 19:47
  I
• 19:47
  came
• 19:47
  back
• 19:48
  to
• 19:48
  him
• 19:48
  and
• 19:48
  I
• 19:49
  said
• 19:49
  it.
• 19:49
  I
• 19:50
  had
• 19:50
  a
• 19:50
  mind
• 19:50
  worm
• 19:51
  for
• 19:51
  him.
• 19:51
  And
• 19:52
  the
• 19:52
  mind
• 19:52
  worm
• 19:53
  was,
• 19:53
  if
• 19:53
  you
• 19:53
  can
• 19:54
  think
• 19:54
  of
• 19:54
  it,
• 19:55
  it's
• 19:55
  already
• 19:55
  too
• 19:56
  small,
• 19:56
  because
• 19:56
  when
• 19:57
  we
• 19:57
  think
• 19:57
  of
• 19:57
  something,
• 19:58
  we
• 19:58
  constrict
• 19:59
  reality
• 20:00
  into
• 20:00
  words.
• 20:02
  So
• 20:02
  in.
• 20:03
  Also
• 20:04
  in.
• 20:06
  I
• 20:07
  think
• 20:07
  it's
• 20:07
  true.
• 20:08
  And
• 20:08
  maybe
• 20:09
  you
• 20:09
  correct
• 20:09
  me
• 20:09
  if
• 20:09
  I'm
• 20:10
  wrong,
• 20:10
  where
• 20:11
  Confucius
• 20:12
  is
• 20:12
  talking
• 20:13
  with
• 20:14
  somebody
• 20:14
  who
• 20:14
  wants
• 20:15
  to
• 20:15
  go
• 20:15
  to
• 20:15
  a
• 20:15
  next
• 20:15
  state
• 20:16
  and
• 20:17
  because
• 20:18
  there's
• 20:18
  a
• 20:18
  tyrant
• 20:19
  in
• 20:19
  the
• 20:19
  next
• 20:19
  state
• 20:19
  and
• 20:20
  he
• 20:20
  talks
• 20:20
  about
• 20:20
  forgetting
• 20:21
  the
• 20:21
  self.
• 20:22
  And
• 20:25
  this
• 20:26
  to
• 20:26
  me
• 20:26
  comes
• 20:27
  back
• 20:27
  to
• 20:27
  having
• 20:28
  a
• 20:28
  flow
• 20:28
  state.
• 20:28
  And
• 20:29
  I
• 20:29
  agree
• 20:29
  with
• 20:30
  you
• 20:30
  that
• 20:31
  I
• 20:31
  think
• 20:31
  we
• 20:32
  have
• 20:32
  a.
• 20:32
  We
• 20:32
  go
• 20:33
  into
• 20:33
  flow
• 20:33
  states
• 20:33
  every
• 20:34
  day,
• 20:35
  but
• 20:35
  we
• 20:35
  don't
• 20:35
  accredit
• 20:36
  them
• 20:37
  that
• 20:37
  way
• 20:38
  because
• 20:39
  when
• 20:39
  they're.
• 20:39
  When
• 20:40
  you're
• 20:40
  doing
• 20:40
  something
• 20:40
  in
• 20:40
  a
• 20:41
  flow
• 20:41
  state,
• 20:41
  there's
• 20:41
  no
• 20:41
  longer
• 20:42
  any
• 20:42
  you.
• 20:42
  That's
• 20:43
  separate.
• 20:43
  That's
• 20:44
  correct.
• 20:44
  That's
• 20:44
  one
• 20:44
  of
• 20:44
  the
• 20:44
  tenets
• 20:45
  of
• 20:45
  Buddhism.
• 20:46
  There's
• 20:46
  no
• 20:46
  separated
• 20:47
  Anthony.
• 20:47
  Correct.
• 20:48
  Or
• 20:48
  Adam,
• 20:48
  or.
• 20:50
  Or
• 20:50
  you.
• 20:50
  And
• 20:51
  so
• 20:53
  it's
• 20:54
  this
• 20:54
  idea.
• 20:55
  And
• 20:55
  my
• 20:56
  acquaintance
• 20:56
  came
• 20:56
  back
• 20:57
  to
• 20:57
  me
• 20:57
  and
• 20:57
  he
• 20:57
  said
• 20:57
  he
• 20:57
  got
• 20:57
  to
• 20:58
  know
• 20:58
  God
• 20:58
  better
• 20:59
  because
• 20:59
  he
• 20:59
  quit
• 21:00
  trying
• 21:00
  to
• 21:00
  put
• 21:00
  God
• 21:01
  into
• 21:01
  a
• 21:01
  thought
• 21:01
  box.
• 21:02
  Right.
• 21:03
  And
• 21:03
  so
• 21:04
  I
• 21:04
  would
• 21:05
  imagine
• 21:05
  because
• 21:06
  of
• 21:06
  your
• 21:07
  wife
• 21:08
  and
• 21:08
  how
• 21:09
  devout
• 21:09
  she
• 21:10
  is,
• 21:10
  she
• 21:11
  hangs
• 21:11
  out
• 21:12
  outside
• 21:13
  of
• 21:14
  that
• 21:14
  thought
• 21:15
  box.
• 21:15
  Is
• 21:15
  that
• 21:15
  right?
• 21:17
  I.
• 21:18
  I
• 21:18
  would
• 21:18
  say
• 21:19
  that
• 21:20
  she
• 21:20
  has
• 21:22
  again,
• 21:22
  yes
• 21:23
  and
• 21:23
  yes.
• 21:24
  Yes
• 21:24
  and
• 21:24
  yes.
• 21:25
  There's.
• 21:26
  There's
• 21:26
  a
• 21:26
  piece
• 21:26
  of
• 21:27
  her
• 21:27
  that
• 21:28
  God
• 21:28
  is
• 21:28
  responsible
• 21:29
  for
• 21:29
  everything
• 21:30
  and
• 21:30
  it's
• 21:30
  all
• 21:31
  a
• 21:31
  God
• 21:31
  plan,
• 21:31
  and
• 21:32
  he
• 21:32
  micromanages
• 21:33
  our
• 21:33
  lives.
• 21:33
  And.
• 21:35
  But
• 21:35
  if
• 21:35
  you
• 21:35
  ask
• 21:36
  her,
• 21:36
  how
• 21:37
  do
• 21:37
  you
• 21:37
  perceive
• 21:38
  God,
• 21:39
  she's
• 21:39
  bumfuzzled.
• 21:41
  Right.
• 21:42
  So
• 21:42
  there
• 21:42
  she's
• 21:43
  outside
• 21:43
  the
• 21:43
  box,
• 21:44
  you
• 21:45
  know,
• 21:45
  but
• 21:46
  in
• 21:46
  her
• 21:47
  practical
• 21:48
  application
• 21:49
  of
• 21:49
  the
• 21:49
  concept
• 21:50
  of
• 21:50
  God,
• 21:50
  she's
• 21:51
  very
• 21:51
  much
• 21:51
  in
• 21:52
  a
• 21:52
  box,
• 21:52
  but
• 21:53
  in
• 21:53
  her
• 21:53
  actual
• 21:54
  idea
• 21:54
  of
• 21:55
  what
• 21:55
  God
• 21:55
  is,
• 21:56
  she
• 21:56
  has
• 21:57
  no
• 21:57
  words.
• 21:57
  But
• 21:58
  you've
• 21:58
  seen
• 21:58
  her
• 21:58
  in
• 21:58
  a
• 21:59
  flow
• 21:59
  state,
• 21:59
  I
• 21:59
  would
• 21:59
  imagine.
• 22:00
  Yes,
• 22:00
  yes.
• 22:00
  Okay.
• 22:01
  So
• 22:01
  that's
• 22:01
  to
• 22:02
  me,
• 22:02
  this
• 22:03
  idea
• 22:03
  of
• 22:04
  she
• 22:04
  forgets
• 22:05
  herself
• 22:05
  and
• 22:06
  is
• 22:06
  doing.
• 22:07
  In,
• 22:07
  in
• 22:07
  that
• 22:08
  language,
• 22:08
  she's
• 22:09
  doing
• 22:09
  God's
• 22:09
  work.
• 22:10
  Yes,
• 22:10
  absolutely.
• 22:11
  Okay,
• 22:12
  absolutely.
• 22:13
  And,
• 22:13
  and
• 22:13
  I
• 22:14
  think
• 22:14
  that
• 22:14
  when
• 22:15
  we
• 22:15
  talk
• 22:15
  about
• 22:15
  flow,
• 22:16
  if
• 22:16
  I
• 22:16
  may,
• 22:18
  there's
• 22:19
  kind
• 22:19
  of
• 22:20
  two
• 22:20
  uses
• 22:20
  of
• 22:21
  the
• 22:21
  word.
• 22:22
  There's
• 22:22
  the.
• 22:23
  That,
• 22:24
  the
• 22:24
  flow
• 22:24
  state,
• 22:25
  which.
• 22:26
  That
• 22:27
  guy
• 22:27
  whose
• 22:27
  name
• 22:28
  you
• 22:28
  can
• 22:28
  never
• 22:28
  pronounce,
• 22:29
  Chimin.
• 22:29
  And
• 22:32
  yeah,
• 22:32
  that
• 22:32
  guy.
• 22:33
  C
• 22:33
  H
• 22:34
  E,
• 22:34
  M
• 22:34
  I,
• 22:34
  Q,
• 22:34
  U.
• 22:35
  But,
• 22:36
  but
• 22:36
  he
• 22:36
  came
• 22:36
  up
• 22:36
  with
• 22:37
  this
• 22:37
  idea
• 22:37
  of
• 22:37
  the
• 22:37
  flow
• 22:37
  state,
• 22:38
  which
• 22:38
  is
• 22:38
  when
• 22:38
  you
• 22:39
  are
• 22:39
  engaged
• 22:40
  enough
• 22:41
  so
• 22:41
  that
• 22:41
  you
• 22:42
  have
• 22:42
  more
• 22:42
  challenge
• 22:43
  than
• 22:43
  bored,
• 22:44
  but
• 22:46
  less
• 22:46
  challenged
• 22:47
  than
• 22:47
  overwhelmed,
• 22:48
  you
• 22:48
  are
• 22:49
  in
• 22:49
  this
• 22:49
  state
• 22:50
  where
• 22:50
  time
• 22:50
  seems
• 22:51
  to
• 22:51
  pass.
• 22:51
  And
• 22:51
  when
• 22:51
  I'm
• 22:52
  writing,
• 22:52
  oh,
• 22:53
  how
• 22:53
  did
• 22:53
  it
• 22:53
  get
• 22:54
  dark?
• 22:54
  Right?
• 22:55
  It
• 22:55
  was
• 22:55
  just
• 22:56
  noon.
• 22:56
  How
• 22:56
  did
• 22:56
  it
• 22:56
  get
• 22:57
  dark?
• 22:58
  And
• 22:58
  then
• 22:58
  there's
• 22:59
  also
• 22:59
  the
• 22:59
  kind
• 23:00
  of
• 23:00
  flow
• 23:00
  that
• 23:00
  I'm
• 23:01
  talking
• 23:01
  about,
• 23:02
  which
• 23:02
  is
• 23:02
  the
• 23:03
  flow
• 23:03
  of
• 23:04
  energy
• 23:04
  through
• 23:05
  the
• 23:05
  world,
• 23:07
  that,
• 23:08
  the
• 23:08
  river
• 23:09
  of
• 23:09
  consciousness
• 23:10
  that
• 23:10
  flows
• 23:11
  through
• 23:11
  the
• 23:11
  world.
• 23:12
  And
• 23:12
  that's
• 23:12
  like
• 23:13
  a
• 23:13
  more
• 23:13
  physical
• 23:14
  idea
• 23:14
  of
• 23:15
  flow
• 23:16
  that
• 23:17
  like
• 23:17
  the
• 23:17
  flow
• 23:18
  of
• 23:18
  energy
• 23:18
  from
• 23:19
  the
• 23:20
  positive
• 23:20
  to
• 23:20
  the
• 23:21
  negative
• 23:21
  pole
• 23:22
  of
• 23:22
  a
• 23:22
  battery.
• 23:23
  And
• 23:23
  so
• 23:24
  when
• 23:24
  I
• 23:25
  talk
• 23:25
  about
• 23:26
  going
• 23:26
  with
• 23:27
  the
• 23:27
  flow,
• 23:28
  it's
• 23:28
  going
• 23:28
  with
• 23:29
  that
• 23:29
  stream.
• 23:31
  But
• 23:31
  when
• 23:31
  you
• 23:31
  go
• 23:32
  with
• 23:32
  that
• 23:32
  stream,
• 23:33
  you
• 23:33
  do
• 23:34
  enter
• 23:34
  the
• 23:34
  flow
• 23:35
  state.
• 23:37
  And
• 23:37
  I
• 23:37
  would
• 23:37
  imagine
• 23:38
  that
• 23:38
  that
• 23:39
  is
• 23:39
  the
• 23:39
  very
• 23:39
  thing
• 23:40
  you
• 23:40
  are
• 23:41
  working
• 23:41
  with
• 23:42
  your
• 23:42
  students
• 23:42
  about.
• 23:43
  Is
• 23:43
  that
• 23:43
  correct?
• 23:44
  Yes,
• 23:45
  of
• 23:45
  course.
• 23:46
  It
• 23:46
  doesn't
• 23:47
  happen
• 23:47
  overnight,
• 23:49
  but
• 23:49
  everybody
• 23:50
  has
• 23:50
  it.
• 23:52
  Yeah.
• 23:53
  You
• 23:54
  know,
• 23:54
  the
• 23:54
  flow
• 23:54
  state
• 23:55
  is
• 23:55
  that
• 23:55
  when,
• 23:56
  when
• 23:56
  the
• 23:56
  basketball
• 23:57
  players
• 23:57
  said,
• 23:58
  how
• 23:58
  did
• 23:58
  you
• 23:58
  hit
• 23:58
  all
• 23:59
  those
• 23:59
  three
• 23:59
  pointers?
• 24:00
  Because
• 24:00
  I
• 24:00
  don't
• 24:00
  know,
• 24:01
  it
• 24:01
  didn't
• 24:01
  even
• 24:01
  feel
• 24:01
  like
• 24:02
  it
• 24:02
  was
• 24:02
  me.
• 24:02
  Yeah,
• 24:03
  it
• 24:03
  was
• 24:03
  in
• 24:03
  the
• 24:03
  zone.
• 24:04
  In
• 24:05
  the
• 24:05
  zone.
• 24:05
  In
• 24:05
  the
• 24:06
  zone
• 24:06
  is
• 24:06
  the
• 24:07
  flow
• 24:07
  state.
• 24:07
  But
• 24:08
  there's
• 24:08
  something
• 24:08
  I,
• 24:09
  I
• 24:09
  do
• 24:09
  want
• 24:09
  to,
• 24:11
  I
• 24:11
  think
• 24:11
  is
• 24:11
  important
• 24:12
  to
• 24:12
  talk
• 24:13
  about.
• 24:14
  First
• 24:14
  of
• 24:14
  all,
• 24:15
  the
• 24:15
  whole
• 24:15
  Buddhist
• 24:16
  Christian
• 24:16
  thing.
• 24:17
  You
• 24:17
  know,
• 24:18
  you
• 24:18
  got
• 24:19
  Thomas
• 24:19
  Merton,
• 24:20
  you
• 24:20
  have
• 24:21
  so
• 24:21
  many
• 24:21
  writers,
• 24:22
  and
• 24:22
  I
• 24:22
  can't
• 24:23
  remember
• 24:23
  the
• 24:23
  name
• 24:23
  who
• 24:23
  wr
• 24:24
  the
• 24:24
  book.
• 24:24
  But
• 24:25
  learning
• 24:26
  Buddhism
• 24:26
  made
• 24:27
  me
• 24:27
  a
• 24:27
  better
• 24:27
  Christian
• 24:29
  point,
• 24:30
  huh?
• 24:30
  Is
• 24:31
  a
• 24:31
  terrific
• 24:31
  is.
• 24:32
  And
• 24:32
  so
• 24:32
  many,
• 24:33
  I
• 24:33
  mean,
• 24:33
  the
• 24:33
  Dalai
• 24:34
  Lama,
• 24:34
  Tik
• 24:34
  Nikhon,
• 24:35
  they've
• 24:35
  all
• 24:36
  said,
• 24:36
  you
• 24:37
  know,
• 24:37
  if
• 24:37
  you're
• 24:37
  going
• 24:37
  to
• 24:37
  be
• 24:37
  a
• 24:37
  Christian,
• 24:38
  be
• 24:38
  a
• 24:38
  good
• 24:38
  Christian.
• 24:39
  If
• 24:39
  you're
• 24:39
  going
• 24:39
  to
• 24:39
  be
• 24:39
  a
• 24:39
  good
• 24:39
  Buddhist,
• 24:40
  be
• 24:40
  a
• 24:40
  good
• 24:40
  Buddhist.
• 24:41
  You
• 24:41
  don't,
• 24:41
  you
• 24:41
  know,
• 24:41
  and,
• 24:42
  and,
• 24:42
  and,
• 24:44
  and,
• 24:44
  and
• 24:45
  the
• 24:45
  like.
• 24:46
  But
• 24:46
  here's
• 24:47
  where
• 24:49
  I
• 24:49
  think
• 24:49
  that
• 24:50
  the
• 24:50
  division,
• 24:53
  cutting
• 24:54
  through
• 24:54
  the
• 24:54
  division
• 24:55
  could
• 24:55
  be
• 24:55
  more
• 24:56
  helpful,
• 24:57
  because
• 24:57
  I
• 24:58
  think
• 24:58
  my
• 24:59
  little
• 24:59
  personal
• 24:59
  theory
• 25:00
  is
• 25:01
  that
• 25:02
  what
• 25:03
  the
• 25:04
  east,
• 25:04
  what
• 25:05
  the
• 25:05
  west
• 25:05
  has,
• 25:06
  has
• 25:06
  Jesus
• 25:08
  and
• 25:09
  Jesus
• 25:10
  looked
• 25:11
  at
• 25:11
  in
• 25:11
  the
• 25:11
  appropriate
• 25:12
  way,
• 25:12
  the
• 25:13
  way
• 25:13
  that
• 25:13
  Jesus
• 25:14
  is
• 25:14
  described
• 25:14
  and
• 25:15
  the
• 25:15
  way
• 25:15
  that
• 25:18
  much
• 25:18
  of
• 25:18
  Christianity
• 25:19
  looks
• 25:19
  at
• 25:19
  him.
• 25:20
  There
• 25:20
  are
• 25:20
  segments
• 25:21
  of
• 25:21
  Christianity
• 25:22
  that
• 25:22
  feel
• 25:22
  somehow
• 25:23
  he
• 25:23
  represent.
• 25:23
  They.
• 25:24
  They
• 25:24
  look
• 25:24
  at
• 25:24
  the
• 25:24
  turning
• 25:25
  over
• 25:25
  the
• 25:25
  tables
• 25:26
  as
• 25:27
  the,
• 25:27
  the,
• 25:27
  the,
• 25:28
  the.
• 25:28
  The
• 25:28
  definition
• 25:29
  of
• 25:29
  Jesus.
• 25:30
  And
• 25:30
  so
• 25:30
  it
• 25:31
  gives
• 25:31
  us
• 25:31
  the
• 25:31
  right
• 25:31
  to
• 25:32
  go
• 25:32
  to
• 25:32
  war.
• 25:33
  But
• 25:34
  much
• 25:34
  of
• 25:34
  Christianity,
• 25:35
  you
• 25:36
  know,
• 25:36
  thinks
• 25:36
  of
• 25:36
  Jesus
• 25:37
  as
• 25:37
  unconditional
• 25:40
  love.
• 25:41
  Here
• 25:41
  is
• 25:42
  a
• 25:42
  model
• 25:43
  of
• 25:43
  unconditional
• 25:44
  love.
• 25:44
  God
• 25:45
  so
• 25:45
  loved
• 25:46
  the
• 25:46
  world
• 25:46
  that
• 25:47
  he
• 25:47
  gave,
• 25:47
  you
• 25:48
  know,
• 25:49
  so
• 25:49
  there's
• 25:49
  this
• 25:50
  model
• 25:50
  of
• 25:50
  unconditional
• 25:51
  love
• 25:52
  in
• 25:53
  the
• 25:53
  East.
• 25:55
  And
• 25:55
  let
• 25:55
  me
• 25:55
  also
• 25:56
  say
• 25:56
  the
• 25:57
  only
• 25:57
  thing
• 25:57
  is,
• 25:57
  is
• 25:58
  that
• 25:58
  they
• 25:58
  killed
• 25:59
  him,
• 26:00
  and
• 26:00
  they
• 26:00
  killed
• 26:00
  him
• 26:01
  after
• 26:01
  he
• 26:01
  only
• 26:01
  taught
• 26:02
  for
• 26:02
  three
• 26:02
  years.
• 26:03
  Now,
• 26:03
  I
• 26:03
  understand
• 26:04
  that
• 26:04
  the
• 26:04
  killing
• 26:05
  and
• 26:05
  the
• 26:05
  resurrection
• 26:06
  is
• 26:06
  the
• 26:07
  proof
• 26:08
  of
• 26:08
  his
• 26:08
  divinity,
• 26:09
  and
• 26:09
  it's
• 26:09
  so
• 26:09
  important
• 26:10
  to
• 26:10
  the
• 26:10
  establishment.
• 26:11
  I
• 26:11
  get
• 26:11
  that.
• 26:11
  But
• 26:12
  what
• 26:12
  if
• 26:12
  he
• 26:12
  had
• 26:12
  lived
• 26:13
  for
• 26:13
  40
• 26:13
  years?
• 26:15
  Could
• 26:15
  you
• 26:15
  imagine
• 26:15
  what
• 26:16
  he
• 26:16
  would
• 26:16
  have
• 26:16
  taught?
• 26:17
  He
• 26:18
  was
• 26:18
  the
• 26:18
  great
• 26:18
  wisdom
• 26:19
  teacher
• 26:19
  of
• 26:19
  all
• 26:20
  time.
• 26:20
  It
• 26:20
  would
• 26:20
  have
• 26:20
  been
• 26:21
  amazing.
• 26:21
  Now,
• 26:22
  over
• 26:22
  in
• 26:22
  the
• 26:22
  east,
• 26:23
  you
• 26:23
  have
• 26:24
  wisdom
• 26:24
  teachers,
• 26:26
  and
• 26:27
  they
• 26:28
  did
• 26:28
  teach
• 26:28
  for
• 26:29
  years
• 26:29
  and
• 26:29
  years,
• 26:29
  and
• 26:30
  they
• 26:30
  developed
• 26:30
  programs
• 26:31
  and
• 26:31
  techniques
• 26:32
  and
• 26:32
  ways
• 26:33
  of
• 26:33
  teaching
• 26:34
  and
• 26:34
  teaching
• 26:35
  methodologies
• 26:35
  and
• 26:36
  as
• 26:36
  we
• 26:36
  say
• 26:36
  at
• 26:37
  the
• 26:37
  university,
• 26:37
  pedagogies
• 26:40
  of
• 26:40
  teaching.
• 26:41
  And
• 26:43
  so
• 26:45
  they
• 26:45
  don't
• 26:45
  really
• 26:46
  have
• 26:47
  that
• 26:47
  model
• 26:48
  of
• 26:49
  unconditional
• 26:50
  love,
• 26:52
  but
• 26:52
  that's
• 26:53
  where
• 26:53
  they
• 26:53
  want
• 26:53
  you
• 26:53
  to
• 26:53
  get
• 26:54
  to.
• 26:55
  And
• 26:56
  so
• 26:56
  if
• 26:56
  you
• 26:57
  can
• 26:57
  meld
• 26:58
  the
• 26:58
  east
• 26:59
  and
• 26:59
  the
• 26:59
  west
• 26:59
  together
• 27:01
  and
• 27:01
  look
• 27:01
  at
• 27:02
  the
• 27:02
  practices
• 27:03
  of
• 27:03
  the
• 27:03
  east
• 27:04
  as
• 27:04
  leading
• 27:04
  to
• 27:05
  a
• 27:05
  state
• 27:05
  of
• 27:05
  unconditional
• 27:06
  love,
• 27:07
  and
• 27:07
  you
• 27:08
  now
• 27:08
  have
• 27:08
  a
• 27:08
  model
• 27:09
  of
• 27:09
  what
• 27:09
  that
• 27:09
  looks
• 27:10
  like,
• 27:11
  it
• 27:11
  all
• 27:11
  could
• 27:11
  be
• 27:11
  very,
• 27:12
  very
• 27:12
  powerful
• 27:13
  together.
• 27:15
  And
• 27:15
  that
• 27:16
  was
• 27:16
  one
• 27:16
  of
• 27:16
  the
• 27:16
  reasons
• 27:16
  for
• 27:17
  writing
• 27:17
  the
• 27:17
  book
• 27:17
  as
• 27:18
  well,
• 27:18
  trying
• 27:18
  to
• 27:18
  bring
• 27:19
  those
• 27:19
  two
• 27:19
  things
• 27:20
  together
• 27:20
  so
• 27:21
  that
• 27:21
  they
• 27:21
  would
• 27:21
  be
• 27:21
  helpful.
• 27:22
  It's
• 27:22
  almost
• 27:23
  as
• 27:23
  in
• 27:23
  the
• 27:24
  west,
• 27:24
  we
• 27:24
  say,
• 27:25
  oh,
• 27:25
  you
• 27:25
  just
• 27:26
  accept
• 27:26
  Jesus
• 27:26
  in
• 27:27
  your
• 27:27
  heart,
• 27:27
  but
• 27:27
  since
• 27:27
  he
• 27:28
  really
• 27:28
  didn't
• 27:28
  give
• 27:28
  us
• 27:28
  a
• 27:28
  whole
• 27:29
  lot
• 27:29
  of
• 27:29
  teachings,
• 27:29
  we
• 27:30
  just
• 27:30
  have
• 27:30
  to
• 27:30
  depend
• 27:31
  on
• 27:31
  the
• 27:31
  fact
• 27:31
  that
• 27:31
  somehow
• 27:32
  from
• 27:32
  being
• 27:32
  inside
• 27:33
  your
• 27:33
  heart,
• 27:33
  he's
• 27:33
  going
• 27:33
  to
• 27:33
  teach
• 27:34
  you
• 27:34
  how
• 27:34
  to
• 27:34
  live.
• 27:35
  Well,
• 27:36
  you
• 27:36
  make
• 27:36
  a
• 27:37
  point
• 27:38
  about
• 27:38
  having
• 27:38
  this
• 27:38
  togetherness,
• 27:39
  and
• 27:40
  I
• 27:40
  think
• 27:40
  there's
• 27:40
  a
• 27:40
  model
• 27:41
  for
• 27:41
  that
• 27:41
  in
• 27:41
  Hinduism
• 27:42
  and
• 27:42
  in
• 27:43
  some
• 27:43
  Eastern
• 27:43
  religions
• 27:44
  where
• 27:45
  Hinduism,
• 27:45
  they
• 27:46
  say,
• 27:46
  yeah,
• 27:47
  Buddha
• 27:48
  is
• 27:48
  a
• 27:48
  Hindu,
• 27:49
  Jesus
• 27:49
  is
• 27:50
  another.
• 27:51
  Another
• 27:51
  manifestation
• 27:51
  of
• 27:52
  the
• 27:52
  God
• 27:52
  Krishna
• 27:52
  coming
• 27:53
  to
• 27:53
  Earth.
• 27:55
  And
• 27:56
  you
• 27:56
  described
• 27:57
  earlier
• 27:57
  that
• 27:58
  your
• 27:58
  Buddhist
• 27:58
  practice
• 27:59
  was
• 27:59
  Mahayana,
• 28:00
  and
• 28:00
  Mahayana
• 28:01
  we
• 28:01
  know,
• 28:01
  means
• 28:02
  great
• 28:02
  raft.
• 28:03
  So
• 28:03
  that
• 28:04
  anything
• 28:04
  that
• 28:04
  helps
• 28:05
  us,
• 28:05
  we
• 28:06
  can
• 28:06
  use.
• 28:06
  Right?
• 28:07
  Including
• 28:07
  if
• 28:08
  we
• 28:08
  need
• 28:08
  to
• 28:08
  listen
• 28:08
  to
• 28:09
  the
• 28:09
  teachings
• 28:09
  of
• 28:09
  Jesus,
• 28:09
  if
• 28:10
  that
• 28:10
  helps
• 28:10
  us,
• 28:10
  then
• 28:11
  we
• 28:11
  can.
• 28:11
  We
• 28:11
  can
• 28:11
  use
• 28:12
  the
• 28:12
  teachings
• 28:12
  of
• 28:12
  Jesus.
• 28:13
  Yeah,
• 28:13
  of
• 28:13
  course.
• 28:14
  My
• 28:14
  favorite
• 28:14
  Gandhi
• 28:15
  quote
• 28:15
  is,
• 28:15
  I
• 28:16
  love
• 28:16
  you,
• 28:16
  Jesus.
• 28:17
  The
• 28:17
  followers,
• 28:17
  I'm
• 28:18
  not
• 28:18
  so
• 28:18
  sure
• 28:18
  about
• 28:18
  it.
• 28:20
  Well,
• 28:20
  I'm
• 28:20
  sorry
• 28:21
  to
• 28:21
  say
• 28:21
  that
• 28:21
  we
• 28:21
  are
• 28:22
  out
• 28:22
  of
• 28:22
  time.
• 28:23
  So
• 28:23
  sorry.
• 28:24
  Yeah,
• 28:25
  this
• 28:25
  has
• 28:25
  been
• 28:26
  really
• 28:26
  great
• 28:27
  fun.
• 28:27
  And
• 28:28
  I'm
• 28:29
  Anthony
• 28:29
  Wright
• 28:29
  and
• 28:30
  I've
• 28:30
  been
• 28:30
  your
• 28:30
  co
• 28:30
  host
• 28:30
  today
• 28:31
  on
• 28:31
  the
• 28:31
  Living
• 28:31
  Conversation
• 28:32
  with
• 28:33
  Adam
• 28:33
  Dietz.
• 28:33
  Thanks
• 28:33
  for
• 28:33
  joining
• 28:34
  the
• 28:34
  conversation.
• 28:35
  And
• 28:35
  we've
• 28:35
  been
• 28:35
  talking
• 28:35
  with
• 28:36
  our
• 28:36
  guest,
• 28:36
  Bob
• 28:36
  Martin.
• 28:37
  And
• 28:37
  how
• 28:37
  can
• 28:38
  people
• 28:38
  contact
• 28:38
  you?
• 28:39
  Bob,
• 28:39
  I
• 28:40
  have
• 28:40
  to
• 28:40
  say
• 28:40
  thank
• 28:41
  you.
• 28:41
  And
• 28:41
  it
• 28:41
  is
• 28:42
  such
• 28:42
  an
• 28:42
  honor
• 28:42
  to
• 28:42
  meet
• 28:43
  you
• 28:43
  too.
• 28:43
  Thank
• 28:43
  you
• 28:44
  so
• 28:44
  much
• 28:44
  for
• 28:44
  having
• 28:45
  me
• 28:45
  on.
• 28:45
  Thank
• 28:45
  you
• 28:46
  very
• 28:46
  much.
• 28:46
  I
• 28:46
  hope
• 28:46
  we
• 28:46
  can
• 28:46
  do
• 28:47
  this
• 28:47
  again.
• 28:47
  Yeah.
• 28:48
  And
• 28:48
  how
• 28:48
  can
• 28:48
  people
• 28:48
  contact
• 28:49
  you?
• 28:49
  I
• 28:50
  am
• 28:51
  at.
• 28:51
  I
• 28:51
  am
• 28:51
  Bob
• 28:52
  Martin,
• 28:52
  one
• 28:52
  word
• 28:53
  gmail.com
• 28:54
  or
• 28:54
  through
• 28:55
  my
• 28:55
  website,
• 28:55
  a
• 28:56
  wiseandhappylife.com.
• 28:59
  Great.
• 28:59
  Well,
• 28:59
  thanks
• 29:00
  for
• 29:00
  listening
• 29:00
  and
• 29:01
  we
• 29:01
  will
• 29:01
  see
• 29:01
  you
• 29:02
  next
• 29:02
  time.