Latest / The Lila Rose Show / E162: Celebrity Conversion, Gen-Z, and Christian Unity w/Ruslan KD

Transcript

E162: Celebrity Conversion, Gen-Z, and Christian Unity w/Ruslan KD · The Lila Rose Show

0:00
There are a lot of Christian conversions happening right now
0:02
with public figures. Do you think that there is a
0:05
mass movement in this country right now towards Christian
0:07
conversion? The hearts of a lot of folks are
0:09
there. Some of you guys just need to be
0:10
in the same city for a couple months and wake up at the same
0:12
time and do the same thing every day.
0:14
Go outside, walk, pray, read your Bible, go to church every
0:18
Sunday and just do those things. What I do think a lot of
0:21
Protestants are doing really well right now is.
0:24
Protestant information is not. Rosanne, welcome back to the
0:30
podcast. Thank you for having me.
0:32
We were just talking election stuff.
0:33
We were and that was that was fun it.
0:34
Was a good episode. So guys, check it out on the
0:36
live which we just did. This is coming out probably in a
0:38
couple weeks later, but check out live for that.
0:41
Christian conversions. There are a lot of Christian
0:44
conversions happening right now with public figures, both to
0:48
Catholicism and then just Christianity generally.
0:52
And you've had a lot of interesting interviews recently
0:54
with some of these influencer types, media personalities who
0:59
are doing this. I've had a couple too.
1:01
Like I spoke with Tammy recently on the show, Tammy Peterson, the
1:03
wife of Jordan Peterson. But yeah, you cover this a lot
1:06
in your show. And what what's your take?
1:08
Very, very big picture. Actually, before that for people
1:12
who haven't met you yet because you've been on the show a few
1:14
times. But give introduce yourself.
1:16
Yeah, my name is Ruslan Podcaster YouTube.
1:19
Check out his stuff, it's amazing.
1:20
Yeah, Ruslan KD on all platforms.
1:22
And check out as. You're and the occupied salicom
1:25
60 day. It's very cool. 35 days in the
1:28
New Testament. 25 days in the Old Testament with custom
1:31
prompts for each day. Journal, prayer request.
1:33
We'll talk about that. Later, It's very cool.
1:35
But what I love about your stuffer son is, first of all,
1:38
you have just great moral clarity on controversial issues
1:41
without going hard right, go left.
1:43
Like you're just right down the middle.
1:44
This is the truth about these moral issues, and you do it in a
1:47
really winsome way. But you're also interviewing all
1:49
these people who are converting. Do you think that there is a
1:52
mass movement in this country right now towards Christian
1:54
conversion? I would hope so.
1:56
I think there's something happening, maybe a great
1:58
awakening of sorts coming out of 2020, the darkness that that
2:02
was, it's kind of across the country, the lockdowns and then
2:05
going, wait a minute, we didn't really need to do all of this
2:07
crazy stuff. The increase in death of
2:09
despair, like all these things that have been happening,
2:12
tumultuous economic times, cost of living.
2:15
I think there's a lot of uncertainty and it's been that
2:18
way for a while. And so I think that is actually
2:20
caused a lot of folks to start exploring and flirting with
2:24
Christianity through the door of darkness, like through the door
2:28
of like man. It definitely seems to be evil
2:30
that exists of evil exists, and the opposite of evil probably
2:34
has to exist. And so that's kind of what I've
2:36
been noticing across the board and I think will hopefully
2:40
continue. What is the reason would you say
2:42
for some of these more these big air influencer types having
2:46
these? I don't know.
2:48
They call it white pill. What is it called?
2:50
God pill, God Pill, the God pill.
2:52
Yeah. What do you think?
2:52
What do you take that? What do you make of that?
2:55
I think it's great. I think God's always moving.
2:56
You know, I think about the less last great awakening we had,
2:59
which was in the late 60s around the Jesus people.
3:02
Jesus revolution, which is actually around here wasn't too
3:04
far from where we physically are in Orange County of just a
3:07
massive awakening that started in Southern California and then
3:11
trans translated to the rest of the country.
3:14
And I think we're due for another one.
3:17
And again, similar times, uncertainty, war, just a lot of
3:21
craziness and people came to Jesus in droves at that time.
3:25
They did a whole movie about a Jesus revolution Pastor Greg
3:28
Laurie kind of story. And so I, I, I think that we'll
3:33
see that hopefully fleshed out at scale.
3:36
I hope so. I'm curious like where Jordan
3:38
Peterson is going to land in his new book, We Who Wrestle with
3:41
God, how overt is he going to be?
3:43
I think he's been kind of holding some of the cards close
3:45
to him. I think that'll.
3:47
Oh, you think he's Jordan Peterson's holding cards about
3:49
his potential Christian conversion in order to play it
3:52
in the book? Maybe.
3:53
I don't know. Interesting play.
3:55
All right, all right. Because when I talk to him, he
3:59
was, first of all, way more gracious and and gentle and
4:03
charismatic and fun. Then sometimes he comes across
4:06
when he's talking about faith. Like when he talk about faith he
4:08
kind of comes across like kind of grumpy.
4:10
Strict, yeah. He was so high charisma, so, so
4:15
pleasant to be around and I got this.
4:19
I got this as my opinion. I got this since he was already
4:21
there with Jesus and faith in Jesus and believing in Jesus and
4:23
surrendering his life to Jesus. I think so too.
4:26
I mean, that's my impression. I think it's a question really
4:28
between Orthodoxy and Catholicism.
4:31
Well, by Orthodoxy I mean like the Orthodox Church, not like an
4:34
Orthodox Christian belief, but. Yeah, so his wife is Catholic.
4:36
She's Catholic. She became Catholic.
4:38
She's beautiful. Yeah, she's she's awesome.
4:40
And then Jonathan Pejo. Pejo is Orthodox and I think
4:45
he's very close with. Jonah and then his daughter is
4:48
and she's very devoted in a church in the Arizona area and
4:51
very active. So I think people want him to
4:54
put on a jersey and pick a side. And I think maybe some of the
4:58
apprehension is he just doesn't want to pick a side.
5:01
I think that would be. Interesting.
5:02
I you know what, I think I agree with you from from the little
5:04
that I know, I don't know enough to have too much of an opinion,
5:07
but I think that is a good theory, yeah.
5:09
But I think he's you know, we had a really cool conversation
5:11
about Matthew 25 when it lays out living with the imminency of
5:16
Jesus, with the parable of the wise and foolish virgins.
5:19
And then it goes right into the parable of the talents, which is
5:21
really interesting. Is going to come back and
5:23
therefore live lives where you're good stewards and you
5:25
make the most of your time, talent and treasure.
5:27
And then it goes right into caring for the least of these
5:31
all the final judgments. There's no longer the parable.
5:33
The end of Matthew 25, Jesus says, hey, when I was naked, you
5:35
fed me. When I was hungry, excuse me.
5:37
When I was naked, you clothed me.
5:38
When I was hungry, you fed me. When I was in prison, you
5:40
visited me. And so I just proposed to them.
5:42
I said what it what you say you don't know what to do with if
5:45
the resurrection is real. What if what we do with it is we
5:48
live as if Jesus is going to come back by making the most of
5:50
our time talent. Treasure Pascal's Wager.
5:53
Live as if there is a heaven and a hell, because in case there is
5:55
one, it's a better deal than if there is one and you live like
5:59
there isn't one. Yeah, then you might go to hell,
6:01
just like bad news. I would say, but help usher in
6:04
heaven on this side of eternity, like help usher in the Kingdom
6:07
of heaven here now. I will be done on earth as it is
6:10
in heaven. Yeah.
6:10
And so he was like, he was like, oh, oh, yeah, no, no, no.
6:14
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then he goes and he goes,
6:16
we're gonna like my talk tonight.
6:17
You're gonna really like my talk today.
6:19
And this whole talk was about identity and how identity has to
6:21
be objective and he can't be subjective and he can't be about
6:24
your feelings. And it was it was really
6:26
interesting. So I'm I'm really excited to
6:28
read we who wrestle with God and see where it where does he land?
6:32
You know, and if he answers the questions Morehead on he he'll
6:36
kind of you know, Alex O'Connor cosmics.
6:39
He used to be cosmic spectrum when he did on YouTube did a
6:41
good job of getting him to say like if you had a time machine
6:45
and video camera and you went back in time and stood outside
6:49
the tomb of Joseph of Amathea, does Jesus walk out of his tomb
6:52
alive after being dead? And his answer was why?
6:55
I suppose so, you know, so I think he's there awesome.
6:59
But I think we all want him to be more bold and that's good.
7:03
But I, I don't think he he wants to put on a jersey.
7:06
I think that's the part he's probably like, I don't want to
7:08
be your mascot. By the way, it's just, it's kind
7:11
of heartbreaking that there's a jersey.
7:13
Yeah, well, I mean, that's how it comes off to an outside.
7:15
Well, I, but I'm just saying like I my, my, one of my big
7:18
passions and honestly, one of the driving forces behind this
7:20
show in many ways is Christian unity.
7:22
Absolutely. I mean, we should all be under
7:24
one church. Now obviously you guys know, I
7:27
believe that's the Catholic Church, but we should all be in
7:29
it's one baptism, one Lord, one church, 1 faith and the fact
7:33
that we have so many, so many denominations, it's different to
7:35
have spiritual gifts and expressions, but to have these
7:39
different theological differences that have splintered
7:41
the church, I think that's heartbreaking.
7:44
I think we do need authority and unity under 1 So.
7:47
But that being said, it's good to see people moving towards
7:51
Jesus, who they believe Jesus to be and his moral law and this
7:54
idea that there's a purpose for our lives that's, you know,
7:57
eternal. And, you know, we need to repent
7:59
like those fundamentals of the faith and see movement towards
8:03
that. And the culture is really
8:04
encouraging. Exodus 90 has changed the lives
8:08
of thousands of men, making them more spiritually, physically and
8:12
mentally strong and more successful in their
8:14
relationships, work and life. Ladies, this is an amazing
8:18
program to share with the men that you love.
8:20
And men, if you haven't tried it already, now is the time.
8:22
Exodus 90 was created by men for men and offers men a path to
8:26
greater freedom by helping them temporarily detached from
8:29
unhealthy habits and teaching them physical, mental and
8:32
spiritual toughness. This 90 day journey, supported
8:35
by the Exodus 90 app and community, connects men with
8:38
accountability partners and provides daily inspiration to
8:42
strengthen their resolve and encourage them down a path of
8:44
self-discipline. The results speak for
8:47
themselves. 99% of men who make an Exodus report a greater level
8:51
of freedom than they've ever experienced before.
8:54
For the men in our audience, I encourage you to join Exodus 90
8:57
with Monsignor James Che, the President of the University of
8:59
Mary, who is a spiritual guide for Advent this year on the
9:02
Exodus 90 app. Go to exodus90.com/lila to learn
9:06
more about Advent on the Exodus 90 app.
9:08
That's Exodus 90.com/lila to join men from around the world
9:12
this Advent starting December. First, yeah, yeah.
9:15
And so I think he's there. I think I mean Russell Brand is
9:18
definitely there like I've I haven't seen a such a bold
9:21
profession of. So you talking with Russell
9:23
Brand? Yeah, Russell had me on his
9:26
podcast like 2 weeks ago or something like that.
9:29
A couple weeks ago we sat down and I, I really wanted to get
9:33
there in person because I'm like, I, I just, I'm all for
9:35
making content, but like, I think you just need some friends
9:38
that like that don't need nothing from you that can just
9:41
be around you. And he's, he really wants to
9:43
hang out and kind of, you know, gets any day.
9:45
They just moved to Florida. So it's stuff kind of chaotic
9:47
over there in terms of just restructuring and being in
9:50
America now. But we, I mean, we had a great
9:52
conversation and he is all the way there and he really came
9:57
through the door of like just suffering like his.
10:00
They had to do open heart surgery on his baby.
10:02
Wow. Yeah.
10:03
I. Didn't know that.
10:04
And in the midst of that, In the midst of that.
10:06
Is the baby OK? The baby's OK now, everything.
10:08
So he has one child, I. Think he has two or three.
10:11
OK. Is he married or?
10:13
He's married, Yeah. They're married 4 or 7-8 years,
10:15
something like that. Yeah.
10:16
And in the midst of that, like he, the doctors are like, hey,
10:20
like, you know, the baby may not make it.
10:22
And so he has to like surrender that.
10:24
And then at the same time, his name is just getting dragged
10:27
through the mud with all these allegations that all kind of
10:30
come out as he's shifting in more of like these conservative
10:33
views. Like the the timing of that was
10:35
really bizarre. You know, so he's dealing with
10:37
all these just gross allegations and then like his baby.
10:40
Meaning was the sense like the allegations were coming in fast
10:43
and furious because. That's how it would seem.
10:46
I don't know. I don't want to say that it's
10:48
because maybe, maybe there are legitimate people who have
10:50
legitimate concerns over his conduct.
10:52
I don't know. But the the timing of it seemed
10:55
odd and that he as he's speaking more from a conservative leaning
11:00
standpoint. This is like a little over a
11:01
year and a half ago around I think was a 2020 ends of 2023
11:04
ish. He is just getting dragged by
11:07
the media for this stuff. And then like his baby needs
11:10
open heart surgery. And so I like at that point is
11:13
when it's like I'm severing my life to Jesus.
11:15
Six months later, he gets baptized and has been, I say,
11:19
pretty vocal about his faith ever since.
11:21
And he's hungry. He's, like, hungry.
11:23
He must learn. He's excited.
11:25
Yeah. I've heard some of the like when
11:28
I see these celebrity conversions or media personality
11:30
conversions or influencer conversions, I get excited.
11:33
You know, you want to pray, we got to pray for them.
11:34
And you know, if you have a contact point, reach out,
11:37
encourage behind the scenes, whatever.
11:39
I don't know Russell at all, but I've never met him.
11:40
But I did see a lot of people criticizing like you were saying
11:44
that he was more using this as a way to it wasn't so much that he
11:49
started the conversion after the allegations with the allegations
11:52
were going to come. And so then he used this, I'm
11:54
converting to kind of refurnish his furbish his image a little
11:58
bit or kind of find a new audience because the allegations
12:02
were really serious. I have not looked into the
12:04
allegations. And of course, there can be
12:07
allegations that are true and someone can still repent and
12:10
obviously start a new life. I would caution them being in
12:13
public ministry, you know, you know what I'm saying?
12:16
Like if you're someone who committed sexual assault, I
12:19
don't know that you should be on a soapbox, soapbox ministering
12:22
to people like that. You should, you know, I think
12:24
you you have a credibility issue.
12:26
Yeah. So I mean, what?
12:27
But what is your take on all that?
12:28
You know, again, I sat down with a friend of mine named Shane
12:31
Smith. I sat down with another friend
12:32
of mine, Alamante Films and these guys, Shane Smith's a
12:36
pretty big like clean comic who recently became a Catholic.
12:39
He talks about it on pranks with acquaintances, conversion and
12:43
and both of these folks simultaneously, same thing
12:45
happened like all the sudden these crazy allegations.
12:47
So I think it's tricky to know like that what comes first, the
12:50
chicken or the egg was at the allegations and then all of a
12:52
sudden they're coming out in faith.
12:53
Both of them would say no for my understanding, you know, they
12:56
would say no. Like I was already on this
12:58
trajectory. And oddly enough, this weird
12:59
stuff comes out and some of it is like they don't even, they've
13:03
never even been around the person.
13:05
Like it's like really weird stuff that that comes out.
13:07
Again, I'm not saying that there isn't a potential truth to that
13:10
stuff. I don't know.
13:11
But I do know that we've seen false allegations before with
13:15
the Johnny Depp thing. Allegations are not the same as
13:18
convictions and guilt and the me too movement.
13:22
Some of that girl got a little wonky with refusing consent
13:26
after the fact. Like you consented and then you
13:28
can relinquish consent after the fact.
13:30
And so you got folks that were living wild lives that were
13:34
sexually immoral, that were fornicators sinful, ask and get.
13:38
And I maybe there was lines crossed or maybe there was this
13:42
weird, like I felt weird about that after I already consented.
13:46
And therefore it's, you know, sexual assault.
13:49
Like I I don't know, but I just not.
13:51
Dark space, I mean. Dark space, I don't know nothing
13:53
about that world cause I've been with my wife for 16 years,
13:56
together for 20 years. I haven't, I've never lived that
13:59
life in that sense. So I don't even know any parts
14:02
of that. And you know, I just know that
14:05
there was this outage of like believe all women no matter
14:07
what. And that kind of blew up a
14:10
people's face. And so I mean, I've been
14:11
confronted like close friends that are like, man, what's up
14:13
with all these dudes become a Christian and all these weird
14:15
allegations following around. I just go, Hey, I, I don't know,
14:18
you know, and I've, I've talked to all of them individually
14:20
about these things. I haven't talked to Shane about
14:21
it individually, but I've talked to Russell on the podcast.
14:25
We talked about it. What did he say?
14:28
He says. He does he acknowledge like,
14:30
yeah, I lived a wildlife and I did that like so that's part of
14:33
his conversion even say. Listen, everything about me is
14:36
public. I've always been very public.
14:38
And so when I was a a heroin addict and a sex addict, I was
14:41
very open about that. And now that I'm on Team Jesus,
14:43
I'm going to be very open about that.
14:45
So I never did my thing in the past that that was more or less
14:47
his explanation because I've never been someone that lives
14:50
two different ways and presents one way and acts differently
14:52
beyond the scenes and connecting with the Beyoncé's.
14:55
I would say that's true. Like that's congruent, you know,
14:58
now again, I don't want to speak on his behalf on on what those
15:01
things are particulars, but I just find it very telling that
15:04
all the sudden when someone doesn't have the opinion you
15:06
like these. Things, Yeah, it's like the
15:08
Harvey Weinstein thing, right? Because he, he was the one, I
15:12
mean, he had such a like dirty history.
15:16
I mean, according to the courts, right?
15:18
I mean, all of these awful situations, but he was
15:22
everyone's best friend too. Like it was like the well known
15:25
secret. But because he was this
15:27
kingmaker in the democratic world, like you fit the
15:30
stereotype of like, I'm going to be a Democrat.
15:33
I'm going to, you know, donate to the Clintons.
15:35
I don't know, like we're all going to take pictures together
15:37
and party and this is the world we're in.
15:39
And even though people knew like there was this understanding
15:42
that people had that this was happening, it didn't bother
15:45
people enough at the time to do something about it.
15:48
And then when it became en vogue and to call people out, which by
15:52
the way, I think it's good that people feel a freedom to call
15:54
people out for that. I think that's actually a
15:55
positive part of the Me Too stuff.
15:57
But obviously it can go too far to now these accusations are
16:01
counted as like everything against a man when there is not
16:03
evidence. Or you can destroy a man's life
16:05
just by an accusation, etcetera. Yeah, I go above and beyond to
16:08
be extremely careful, and I've always have.
16:10
In terms of even what situations I put myself in.
16:13
But I've been walking with Jesus for 20 years and I got a little
16:15
bit of wisdom. Interesting.
16:17
I've got a Good Wife and I got a great wife who's wise, yeah.
16:20
I think this is a world that, again, I'm not super familiar
16:22
with and I don't know how it works, but even like the Diddy
16:25
stuff, I mean, people have been known about these parties and
16:28
these these orgies and all that kind of stuff.
16:30
And so like, where's that line between consent and trafficking?
16:35
And like, I don't know, it's over my pay, above my pay grade.
16:38
But what I do know is that people did know about this stuff
16:41
about Diddy and they look the other way.
16:44
They it was, it was all good. They got the models to to come
16:48
and all this weird stuff that was happening.
16:50
And then the Cassie thing seems to have opened up the
16:53
floodgates, which is like good, like good.
16:55
Like there's sufficient evidence that he is guilty at least of
16:59
some of the stuff that's being alleged about him, right?
17:01
There's enough there in terms of where those lines end up getting
17:05
crossed. I just, I don't know.
17:07
I've never been someone that's in that world.
17:09
Well, just like a good, it's a good principle for dating, for
17:13
friendship, for everything. Like hang out with people,
17:15
surround yourself with people, trust people that are
17:18
trustworthy and that are aiming at good values.
17:21
It's not like I sound like the grandmother, but it's like this
17:23
is the truth, you know? And similarly with men, like I'm
17:26
not saying that you can protect yourself from all sexual abuse
17:29
perfectly by following some moral law.
17:31
No, like sexual abuse, unfortunately, and and you know,
17:34
harassment can happen to anyone, especially like unfortunately a
17:37
lot of children, they have no power over that, right?
17:40
And in the Diddy case, there's apparently potentially kids that
17:43
were involved. Super dark.
17:45
So Dark Lord of Mercy, I think I've heard people who say
17:48
advocates have said something to the extent that whenever there's
17:52
an imbalance of power that that relinquishes consent, right,
17:57
which is again. For even two adults, they claim.
17:59
For even 2 consenting adults, meaning if there's ever a
18:03
situation where a boss right has an affair with his secretary
18:07
because of the imbalance of power, that has technically
18:10
turned into coercion and has. But then you could basically say
18:13
like any sexual outside of marriage, like very positive,
18:18
good, loving marriage. Any sexual event that someone
18:20
who's rich or powerful has is abuse.
18:23
That that's the slippery. Unless.
18:24
Unless I guess, with that scenario they're having, you
18:27
know, they're fornicating with someone of equal level of power.
18:31
But even then, it's like, yes, what if it's a woman and a man?
18:34
Like, is the woman by nature less powerful?
18:36
Yeah. Yeah.
18:37
Physically we're less powerful. Yeah.
18:39
So it is a tricky. It is a tricky.
18:42
This example was made in the context of if a pastor ever has
18:45
an affair with a fellow congregant, it's always abuse.
18:48
That's how that example was. Made well, I think it would, it
18:50
would definitely be spiritual abuse because they have
18:53
spiritual authority if you're, if they're not a minor.
18:55
We're not talking about something illegal though, right?
18:58
But I do think there's certainly really toxic spiritual abuse and
19:01
like horrifically toxic when there's children involved.
19:04
Of course, then it's also illegal.
19:05
Yeah, but and then and then not to get too dark, but then
19:07
there's the flip side of there. There are women out there who
19:12
like the appeal of status and power and want to be sexually
19:16
intimate with people who have status and power.
19:18
I don't know a lot of those women.
19:20
Like that's not my world. So again, it's just different.
19:22
Kinds of power, because if you're very beautiful or you're
19:25
very charismatic and you have a certain kind of power that is
19:28
not going to be measured by your physical wealth or your physical
19:32
status in terms of like you have an institution or an
19:34
organization that you lead. So yeah, I mean it.
19:36
It is tricky stuff. But you know, so, so again, like
19:39
in that, are there women that just want to sleep with famous
19:42
men? I know those exist, right?
19:44
They're just rupees and that whole allure.
19:47
So I don't know, I don't know. We're in an interesting time.
19:48
So I, I hope and I pray that if there was wrongdoing that that
19:52
would be dealt with in a, in a way that is, you know,
19:56
compensating to the victims. But I don't know enough about
19:58
it. But and I and and what I will
20:00
say is I don't think the people I'm talking to are doing it as a
20:04
smoke and mirror to rebrand their image because boy is.
20:08
Positioning yourself as a Christian in today's climate,
20:11
not a huge net positive or something that brings you
20:13
status. I'm meaning that I don't think
20:16
Russell or Shane win by all the sudden waiting the banner of
20:20
Jesus over their life. I think it cost them way more
20:22
than it helps them. In terms of their businesses?
20:25
Yeah, absolutely. I don't, I don't, I don't think
20:27
your bookings go up and your your revenue goes up to being
20:29
saying guys, I'm I'm sold out for Jesus.
20:31
I believe in the Bible. I believe everything the Bible
20:33
says. I think that costs.
20:34
Not to, not to play devil's advocate because I, I, I think
20:37
in many ways I think you're right.
20:39
But I, I will say there is clearly the stereotype of the,
20:43
you know, snake oil salesman, pastor who is using, and they're
20:48
very charismatic who's using the faith as a way to enrich
20:52
themselves. And this is an accusation like
20:54
that gets wheeled against people like Joel Osteen, et cetera, or
20:57
Benny Hinn and these others. And, you know, but I will say
20:59
I've heard and seen people who have been blessed by Joel Osteen
21:03
and people who have been blessed by Benny Hinn.
21:05
I'm not saying I agree with everything they do.
21:06
I certainly don't agree with their theology.
21:08
But and by blessed, I mean encouraged sincerely in towards
21:11
doing good things, right? So I don't know what your take
21:15
is on that, but. Yeah, I don't know either of
21:17
those guys. I I don't have a read on any of
21:20
those guys. I think we, you see this sort of
21:23
stuff happening in churches. I believe it's more self
21:27
delusion and less I'm going to intentionally deceive people,
21:31
meaning I think Osteen believes this stuff.
21:33
Osteen says. I think Benny Hinn.
21:35
Yeah, I think even Benny Hinn, I think he's just deluded and
21:38
wrong. It's some of his theology.
21:40
But I don't think it's intentional because I don't know
21:43
people's motives. And and maybe because I'm naive
21:46
and, and this may be real, is that I tend to just give people
21:49
with the benefit of the doubt and say I'm in good faith.
21:52
I'm going to believe you, and until you prove me otherwise.
21:55
Well, I think, I mean, this is also like stereotype or this is
22:00
true of personality disorders. And again, I'm not trying to
22:03
like psychoanalyze everybody, but I, what we do know as an
22:06
example, like I know there's a amazing, a lot of amazing
22:10
people, part of the Catholic Church, Catholics.
22:12
And they were part of this sort of an order of types of kind of
22:15
spiritual movement within the church that was led by this very
22:17
charismatic guy. And he ended up being a complete
22:19
nightmare. I mean, he was having, I think
22:22
his name was Masiel and he was a part of the Legionaries of
22:24
Christ. And there's a lot of good fruit
22:26
in the Legionaries of Christ, but their leader, their founder
22:29
ended up living a double life. He had, you know, women and
22:32
multiple women in different places.
22:34
He was abusive. He had multiple children.
22:35
He's supposed to be a celibate priest.
22:37
So he was living a lie. And this came out and obviously
22:39
scandalized a ton of people broke up the order in many ways.
22:42
A bunch of people left but held on to their, you know, their
22:45
Catholic faith, But they left this kind of spiritual movement
22:47
within the church, right? Anyways, all that to say, there
22:50
was a lot of theorizing that he had this personality disorder.
22:53
Not to say that he wasn't committing moral crimes.
22:56
Of course he was. But it's like there was such
22:59
such a sincerity to him. Like people who and his friends,
23:03
like he just seems so sincere. He seems so good.
23:05
But he had this power to live this double life because he
23:08
sincerely in whatever heart, somewhere deep down he thought
23:13
he believed in what he was doing.
23:14
I should say he believed in what he was doing and it like worked
23:17
for him psychologically, even though it was so broken and
23:20
bent. It's dark.
23:21
What is that? What is that disorder?
23:24
I mean, well, there's the narcissistic personality
23:26
disorder, which is everything's about you and you're really
23:30
charismatic, but you want to just kind of surround yourself
23:32
and a lot of those people can live, end up living double
23:34
lives. I don't know what the
23:36
personality disorder, you know, the specific one that would have
23:40
been given to him. I mean, I don't know if it's
23:42
like an alternate, alternate persona disorder or I don't know
23:45
what it, I don't know what it is.
23:46
But I think that I have just heard this, that you can, there
23:50
are people what I guess what I'm saying this to get to a finally
23:53
to get to this point, which is we cannot read people's hearts,
23:58
right? We don't read people.
24:00
We cannot read people's hearts. We can judge their actions.
24:03
And yes, you can really get to know someone well, like your
24:05
child and get to know their heart and then you can help them
24:08
understand their hearts, right. But if we're talking about
24:10
somebody who might have a personality disorder, maybe they
24:13
were abused as a child or had whatever issues with them and
24:15
they're doing really bad things. Yeah, they should maybe be in
24:18
jail. They shouldn't be in a position
24:19
of authority. But to say like, like to condemn
24:22
their heart and to know what's going on inside the deepest
24:25
recesses of their heart, that's not for us.
24:27
Yeah, Amen. I think you're spot on.
24:29
Yeah. And that's the part where I just
24:30
go like, I don't know. I don't know.
24:33
So who are some other folks that you've talked to recently about
24:36
conversions? Covenant Eyes helps men and
24:38
women achieve victory over porn addiction by blocking explicit
24:42
websites and helping you connect with your accountability
24:44
partner. This is such a beautiful
24:46
approach to ensuring that people can have victory over porn
24:49
addiction. Covenant Eyes is a special
24:51
program called Arise, which is a 21 day video series specifically
24:55
designed to help Christian women overcome sexual addiction.
24:58
Arise helps you identify the wounds at the root of sexual
25:02
addiction. This is a safe and confidential
25:04
community for support. You can get 30 days of Covenant
25:07
Eyes for free by going to the link in the description and
25:09
using the code Lila at checkout. I've talked to Tyrese.
25:13
I tried to check in on him. He, he, we went to his home, had
25:16
a really cool conversation. That was that was interesting.
25:20
There was quite a few like. What's his background, Tyrese?
25:25
Fast and Furious Massive R&B star, Movie star Very.
25:28
Cool. Yeah, so he's been a Christian
25:31
for a while, and he's just been more and more outspoken lately
25:34
and trying to figure it out. And so again, a lot of these
25:36
folks, I'm just trying to just kind of be in their corner, you
25:40
know, like, I don't really, I don't even reach out or when
25:43
they reach out, I don't even go in for the let's sit down and do
25:46
a podcast conversation. I'm just kind of like, hey,
25:48
like. That's good.
25:49
I'm here like I, like, I was just in Atlanta and I and I hit
25:52
him up and I said, hey, man, like I'm here like if you want,
25:55
like I'll just come by and sit with you.
25:56
He was in the middle of some pretty gnarly.
25:57
He's in the middle of a divorce and it's it's really messy.
26:01
And I said, hey, like I'm I'm down the street.
26:02
Like as I was doing another podcast with somebody else, I'm
26:04
down the street like if you want me just to come hang and just
26:06
chill. Like I'm like, I'm here.
26:07
And he's like, man, how long are you here?
26:09
You know, so I have these kind of relationships that are to me.
26:14
Can I just be a good friend and just just hey, man, I'm thinking
26:16
about you, praying about you. Like let me know if you need
26:17
anything, you know, those sorts of connections so that they know
26:21
that at least they have people in their corner that again, like
26:24
I don't, I'm, I'm doing well. I don't need anything from you.
26:27
I don't need AI, don't need, I don't need no clout.
26:29
I don't need any economic opportunities.
26:31
Like I'm just available as a friend.
26:33
Well, I think it is, I mean, I, I do think legitimately it is
26:36
happening that there are more people than I've seen in over a
26:39
decade that are coming out and having these conversions and are
26:43
saying that they're Christian. You know, a lot of Catholic
26:45
conversions happening, people saying that they are their home,
26:50
you know, this is the faith, they want to live the faith and
26:51
then they're passionately sharing the faith.
26:53
And I don't know, I, I think it's having a trickle down
26:56
effect. I do think there's something
26:58
happening with Gen. Z right now.
26:59
I mean, the, some of the polling shows that especially Gen.
27:02
Z men and a lot of the people we're talking about our men,
27:05
right? A lot of Gen.
27:06
Z men are now the, the, the trend of them attending church
27:10
on a weekly basis is going up instead of down Gen.
27:13
Z men like young, young men. And I think shows like your show
27:17
have a lot to do with that, quite frankly.
27:19
Like it's not so much, unfortunately, maybe the local
27:22
church and the local pastor and, you know, the local parents,
27:25
although God bless our parents and pastors, we need them.
27:28
But I do think media has such an influence and all of these shows
27:32
that are being led by a lot of the men that are more, I mean,
27:36
red pill, not in the negative way, but the God pill are really
27:40
having an impact. And you see that statistically
27:42
like we're seeing that in the data.
27:43
Yeah, the data definitely seems to be showing that young men are
27:47
becoming more and more aligned with biblical values, natural
27:51
law, whatever you're going to call it, that there seems to be
27:54
a a shift happening. And I think that's that's a good
27:58
thing. Like, I'm excited about that.
28:00
Like I sat down with a guy named Candy Ken, who's pretty massive
28:03
TikTok * and he was big YouTube vlogger and he's gone all the
28:07
way on the, on the moral aspect, like just all the way in.
28:12
And then he was, I mean, I, I brought him a Bible.
28:14
Like he didn't have a Bible. And so he was like, he posted on
28:17
Instagram, like my life is forever changed.
28:18
Like with the Bible I gave him, I just gave him my, my, my, my
28:21
Bible in the car and a prayer journal.
28:22
And he is like, yeah, he's trying to figure it out.
28:25
So I think you're right. I think there's a lot of good
28:27
things happening. And my heart is like getting
28:30
people in the communities, get people in your real life that
28:33
you can do life with. And you need to, you need to go
28:36
to church. Like you need to go to church
28:38
and practice your faith. You need to get up and do the
28:41
same things every day. Cause a lot of these guys like
28:42
their, their lifestyle of like the Hollywood, you know, it's,
28:45
it's like crazy sleeping schedules, crazy travel
28:48
schedules. And I'm like, some of you guys
28:49
just need to be in the same city for a couple months and wake up
28:52
at the same time and do the same thing every day.
28:55
Go outside, walk, pray, read your Bible, go to church every
28:59
Sunday and just do those things to start seeing that like
29:02
spiritual maturity that you're design because the hearts are
29:04
there, like all the hearts of a a lot of folks are there, but
29:07
they're just living such stark contrast of lives and the way
29:10
they move is is hard, you know? And it's hard to like live
29:14
vocationally in terms of if you're meant to marry and you
29:16
feel called to marriage and do family life, if you're kind of
29:21
the whims of whether your career is like sending you all across
29:24
the, you know, all the continents of the world, across
29:27
the oceans, or you're just, you know, crazy creative.
29:30
And so you're just kind of living your crazy creative life.
29:33
Again, not saying you should squash your creativity or never
29:35
travel for work or not work hard, but there's a certain
29:38
rhythm to enter into so that you're able to live that more
29:42
traditional, which is not even just more natural life that is
29:46
demanded of you. If you're going to have kids and
29:48
A and a marriage and a wife and everything.
29:50
Again, not to say you can't travel with your kids.
29:52
You can't do things that look a traditional and you can do that.
29:55
But at the end of the day, your life is not your own anymore.
29:58
And you've got other people that you have to care more for them
30:01
even than yourself in the day-to-day.
30:05
I, I, I do want to say that like when I became Catholic, one of
30:08
the things that struck me the most most was in every church
30:11
across the globe on every day the Mass was being said, the
30:14
same Mass, the same Bible readings, the same sacrifice,
30:17
like everywhere you could go. So there's sort of this
30:20
groundedness there where you didn't have to like search for
30:23
it. It was everywhere in every
30:24
language, same liturgy, same Scripture readings.
30:26
And there's sort of this almost like bodily experience of like
30:30
you, you go like the Mass is going to happen with or without
30:33
you. You know, like God doesn't.
30:35
I mean, God uses his people, his church for the Mass to celebrate
30:38
the Mass of priesthood. But the Mass is happening with
30:41
or without us. Like the church goes on and it's
30:43
waiting for you and in every culture in every continent.
30:46
Yeah, I think we would need to be reminded that they're not the
30:48
center of the universe. God is the center of the
30:51
universe and God established this church and that is great
30:55
for someone that is used to being the main character.
30:59
Like the main character syndrome is a real thing, especially with
31:01
whether you're a micro influencer or like a A list
31:03
celebrity. Like that's a real thing people
31:04
were wrestling with. When you you met with Father
31:07
Ambrose, right? I did.
31:08
Did I imagine that? I think he reached out.
31:11
Oh, OK, I sat Who is Father Simon?
31:13
Oh, Father Simon, that's what I'm thinking.
31:15
Amazing. OK, He is amazing, Simon.
31:17
I did have Father. That's what I'm thinking.
31:18
OK, Father Ambrose. Is great.
31:19
I think there's another priest that I'm having on the beginning
31:22
of the the next. One Father Simon, is the
31:25
Melkite, right? Yes, Melkite, the from San
31:28
Diego. He yes, but they're they're a
31:30
part of the Syrian Syrian Assyrian or Syrian Assyrian.
31:35
Yeah, he's great. He is great.
31:36
He brought. Holy water, how?
31:38
How was that conversation? Oh, he was amazing.
31:40
He was so sweet and we had a a great conversation.
31:43
The thing that I like about him was that he was like Zach went
31:47
to a Catholic Church and. And that's your guy?
31:50
Yeah. And he kind of like, told the
31:51
story and it wasn't the most flattering, you know?
31:54
And he's like, it's just news fest and and, and and and the
31:57
Catholics were mad. Like our Catholics are mad.
31:59
And I was like. But but like, let's just be real
32:02
here. The Mass is not a song and dance
32:05
for you. Yeah, the Mass is, is worshipped
32:07
to God and it can be done poorly in the sense that you can have a
32:12
Mass that is done in a very dry way.
32:15
You know, there's not great like the, there's not a great fervor
32:18
of the congregation and it's still the Mass, it's still Jesus
32:21
Christ and I, but I think that just shows the humility of God,
32:25
the humility of God that he allows us to, he allows us, the
32:29
people to still come to him with our imperfections and our snooze
32:33
fests and he still will accept US.
32:36
Yeah. And He still will die for us,
32:38
but frankly, like the sacrifice of the Mass is for us for all of
32:41
time. And He is still giving us his
32:43
body and his blood, even though we are not, even though we are
32:46
but sinners, right? So anyways, that's just.
32:48
So what I appreciate about Father Simon is.
32:50
Father Simons like come to my massac.
32:52
He said that. He did say that.
32:54
He was like, yeah, you know, sometimes they're not good.
32:57
Like, sometimes it's not, you know, but more or less what you
33:00
said. But like, yes, sometimes people
33:01
aren't passionate. They're not excited about it.
33:03
The people, maybe they're in training and he was like, yeah,
33:06
you guys should come to. So we're working on doing a
33:11
series of like church tours because we've been having these.
33:14
Conversations mentioned that. So we want to do a series of
33:16
like church, church, church church tours and highlighting
33:20
the different faith traditions and just kind of going into it
33:22
curious. So we want to do like the mega
33:25
church down the street, so like the the biggest Catholic Church
33:28
here and just showing all the different things and then having
33:31
conversations. I don't know if you saw my blog
33:33
with a vlog with Pintwood acquaintance, but like going
33:35
through a cigar shop and like those sorts of like immersive
33:38
experiences. So we are going to do Father
33:40
Simons. Nice.
33:42
Yeah, Yeah. I mean, again, like my the dream
33:44
I I think that Christian unity is the key.
33:47
It's the key. I mean people complain about the
33:49
Christians or not. Right now, especially right now,
33:51
like we could have in house conversations but and not be.
33:56
I want you to become Catholic. Like I'm not going to hide it,
33:59
right? You're already a Christian,
34:00
obviously. But like I want, I want like
34:02
full unity, like theological unity under like so, but I, I'm
34:07
just curious, like what is your, what is your take on that?
34:09
And you talked about this with Matt probably, right?
34:11
Yeah, we, we talked about, did you talk about theology with
34:13
Matt? We talked about the bit.
34:15
We Heart Nutrition provides wholesome supplements and
34:18
vitamins, and they have wholesome values.
34:20
Not only does We Heart Nutrition use the highest quality research
34:24
backed ingredients that are always in the most bioavailable
34:27
form, We Heart Nutrition is also unapologetically pro-life.
34:31
In fact, 10% of every sale of their vitamins is given back to
34:34
pregnancy care centers. You may not know this, but many
34:37
of the major multivitamin companies are owned by
34:39
corporations that donate directly to Planned Parenthood.
34:43
With We Heart Nutrition, it's the opposite.
34:45
It's not only of best in class vitamin, but they're donating
34:48
10% of their proceeds back to pro-life resource centers.
34:52
We Heart Nutrition sells vitamins for women at every age
34:54
and stage of life, including options for preconception,
34:57
pregnancy, postpartum and post menopause.
35:00
So go to weheartnutrition.com today.
35:02
Use the code Lila for 20% at checkout.
35:06
Now when you place an order of $50 or more at We Heart
35:08
nutrition.com, you will receive a free signature bamboo capsule
35:12
box. These boxes are adorable and
35:15
make taking your vitamins are traveling with them easy.
35:17
Check out weheartnutrition.com and use the code Lila at
35:20
checkout for 20% off. That's weheartnutrition.com.
35:24
I think I get in trouble for ecumenical conversations with my
35:28
Yeah, because there some folks would be a little too, you know,
35:31
a little too fundamentalist, a little too like the Catholics
35:33
aren't saved, Orthodox aren't saved, these people aren't
35:35
saved. That and The funny thing about
35:37
me is like if you if you're coming from a Protestant
35:39
tradition and you're holding to Sola scriptura and you're
35:42
holding to salvation by grace through faith alone, that means
35:46
that salvation is not something that you're doing.
35:49
It's something God did initiated.
35:51
However you want to language that.
35:52
So if salvation is not by grace to faith is is by grace to faith
35:55
alone. Why would you assume that
35:57
Catholics and Orthodox who are calling on Jesus aren't in?
36:01
That doesn't make sense to me, right?
36:03
Because it's not of our own doing according to our actual
36:07
tradition. And I would say Ephesians 2,
36:08
right? So are they, are you saying
36:10
these are more 5 point Calvinist types?
36:11
OK, yeah, yeah. But are you?
36:12
Are you not 5? Are you?
36:13
Five point Calvinist ago, yeah, no, I mean, I had a reformed
36:15
phase 15 years ago That was it was it was scorching hot when I
36:18
came to the earlier but now, no, I'm I'm not a Calvinist and so
36:23
when I when I hear the feedback, I I just don't understand.
36:26
That's not to say there's not nominal Catholics and nominal
36:29
Orthodox and nominal Christians and all the circles, but I think
36:33
right now is a time of, hey, let's lock arms and find values
36:39
and issues that we. Want.
36:40
Talk about and then we can talk about the differences.
36:45
The theological differences. Theological differences and I
36:47
almost enjoy those like those are like in house conversations.
36:51
And I'm a I'm a bit of a debate junkie.
36:54
So like, I like seeing like the best of the best from the
36:57
Protestant circle go against the best of the best from who?
37:00
Is the best of the best in Protestant, would you say?
37:02
In terms of debating, yeah, well, historically he's a
37:05
Calvinist and I don't agree with him on Calvinism, but
37:07
historically it's been James White.
37:08
He's done a great job. He he's kind of his last
37:13
conversation he had with which of reason he was a little sick,
37:16
I think. So it wasn't the greatest
37:18
performance. Gavin Ortland, I think does a
37:19
great job. He's, I haven't seen his debate
37:23
with Jimmy Aiken, but he has some really good debates with
37:25
Trent Horn and he leans into those conversations.
37:28
So I say that to say that like I am a debate junkie.
37:31
I love those conversations and I don't care to have them like
37:38
'cause I because I go, I'm not really the dude that wants to
37:41
debate Christians. Like I like, I enjoy with me.
37:44
Like on theological finer. Points like I enjoyed what you
37:47
and I did with Adam 22 and Lila Rose and that whatever podcast
37:52
like that to me is where I'm like, Oh, this is my sweet spot,
37:55
'cause I can articulate the biblical worldview in a way that
37:58
makes sense. Now we, we start getting into,
38:01
you know, the, the Eastern Orthodox Church being the exact
38:06
same tradition that the apostles established.
38:09
And I go, I don't know about that, you know, and then the
38:13
Catholics are like, and we have the Pope and you know, we, we
38:17
are traditions have evolved a little bit and we've kind of,
38:20
you know, and the, and the Orthodox like, no, but you guys,
38:23
we have the real church, but we have the real church.
38:25
And I just go, I like that you guys keep fighting amongst
38:28
yourselves because I just want to hold to a very simplistic
38:32
gospel. Like, I want to go when the
38:34
apostles were around and who and their successors, Polycarp,
38:37
Ignatius, those folks, Clement, the first Pope, right?
38:41
Like, what was their faith like? And how did they operate in a
38:44
system that was oppressive to them and wasn't the most excited
38:47
for Christians? And and and I, I love that.
38:50
What theology do you have when you're before the lion?
38:53
Yeah. You know, that's like like.
38:54
And and and and how did you? Into the and how did church?
38:57
Look and how this community look, and I think when I, when I
39:00
think about that, I go, OK, so the Protestant information is
39:04
not a a way to say you guys are out.
39:09
The Protestant information is to say, Hey, we need to always be
39:11
reforming, right? We need to always be reforming.
39:13
And I think there's a lot of beauty in the newer traditions
39:18
that are being built because Once Upon a time, the songs that
39:21
the Orthodox sing in their, you know, or services were new,
39:25
right? They didn't they didn't come
39:26
from heaven. And right, Once Upon a time,
39:28
those were new. Once Upon a time that the
39:30
traditions were new. They were they were innovations
39:32
right there. Those they probably would not
39:34
like that word. And we and I go, man, the hymns
39:37
are beautiful. Like, OK, but I think we look
39:40
down upon the innovations that are happening within Protestant
39:44
circles and we when we scoff at them, we go, oh, rock'n'roll
39:47
Church just like, stop it. You guys all like, yeah, you
39:49
guys all like the music, you know, like.
39:51
It's just beautiful music. It's beautiful music.
39:53
Yeah, I was just in San Antonio Mega church fits 4000 people.
40:00
Chandler Moore comes out, does a beautiful worship set.
40:03
It was it was phenomenal. He's doing hymns, he's doing
40:05
gospel songs, he's doing CCM songs.
40:07
I mean, and he's just pouring himself out to Jesus, right?
40:10
And you see young people all over and they're just pouring
40:13
themselves out to Jesus. And I go, what are the songs
40:17
we're going to sing 500 years from now, 1000 years from now,
40:20
right? Maybe it's Chandler Moore song.
40:22
Like maybe there's tradition, new tradition being made, new
40:25
art being made. Even with you look at the
40:28
innovations the mega churches do.
40:30
And I'm not a mega church guy per SE, but I got a lot of mega
40:33
church sponsor on the technology side.
40:35
Like the Megas are just cutting edge technology more so than the
40:38
world, meaning the the technology you're going to see
40:40
of lighting and screens and all that.
40:43
And again, people get scoff at that, but it's like there's some
40:46
real cool innovation happening here.
40:47
That may not be for everybody. Fair enough.
40:49
But goodness gracious are they reaching people and and clothing
40:53
people and serving people and loving people and continuing on
40:56
in ways that most people would like.
40:58
Oh, you guys are Rock'n'roll Church.
40:59
And it's like, yeah, you know what?
41:01
And it slaps. And like, if we're going to talk
41:03
about windows into heaven, I don't know how you sit through
41:06
an hour of worship with Chandler Moore and not get a window into
41:10
heaven through that. Well, that's I mean, The thing
41:12
is like, at at least I know in the Catholic tradition, if it's
41:16
a beautiful and theologically sound worships on you're not
41:19
like saying God is a woman or right.
41:21
Although there are some like beautiful poems about like the
41:23
feminine aspects of God, but being a nurturer and like
41:26
clothing you and you know, you know, nursing, like God
41:30
literally feeding us, you know, almost like a mother feeds the
41:33
infant and all this stuff, right.
41:34
So, but that being said, so I'm not saying it would be even
41:36
heretical to talk about like the feminine aspects of God, but
41:39
that to be said because God is all one and he's all perfect.
41:42
And you know, the feminine comes from God.
41:45
It does. So he created it.
41:47
All that to say, if it's beautiful, if it's good, if it's
41:49
true, it's it belongs. It belongs.
41:53
And I love that view because. And you know, Catholic really
41:56
just means universal. Like Catholic is not meant to be
41:59
like, oh, that's yeah. And we and, and, and, and
42:03
baptism, we are one. Like in baptism, we are one.
42:05
And so that's where you can have your praise and worship music.
42:08
You can have. It's just a matter of like where
42:10
does it belong? Does it belong during the
42:12
liturgy of the Mass when you're, you know, about to do a
42:15
consecration? Like that's where there is a
42:17
certain, like there is a theology to this is where the
42:19
liturgy comes from. But can you do, I mean, I've
42:22
been to like I've been to Catholic conferences and
42:24
certainly to Protestant conferences, evangelical, where
42:27
there is praise and worship music and incredibly beautiful
42:31
moments happening of worship, of sincerity of heart by sometimes
42:36
thousands of young people or just thousands of people who
42:38
sincerely are moved by the experience.
42:41
And I've been moved by the experience.
42:43
So I mean, how can you not listen to the oceans and not?
42:45
Shed a tear? OK.
42:48
I mean, yeah, I love Man of Your Word by Maverick City.
42:51
There's there's just some amazing songs that I would
42:52
challenge those folks that are like you got like go go sit with
42:56
some of these records. Like go go look up some of these
42:58
records and and. Even Father Simon would jam with
43:01
some of that stuff. I mean, so we don't have to
43:03
like, we don't have to create divides where there aren't any.
43:06
And I do love what you said about we can unite around these
43:09
moral issues and, and issues of really like what it means to be
43:13
human. And it doesn't really.
43:15
I mean, we do want to. I mean, I do think theological
43:18
differences matter and people should talk about them.
43:20
I think that is important. But when it comes to like,
43:23
marriages are falling, failing, children are dying, fighting
43:26
together, joining arms with everybody of good conscience and
43:29
everyone who says, yeah, I want to fight this fight with you, I
43:32
think is important. So, yeah, and, and not to get
43:33
too pragmatic, but I, I believe that when I talk to Orthodox
43:36
folks, I'm psycho Catholic folks, many of the prescriptions
43:40
we're giving on a Christian living side are, if not
43:43
identical, very similar, whether that's financial, whether that's
43:47
marriage, whether that's family home business, like it's a lot
43:50
of very similar prescriptions. And I think what happens is we
43:56
spend a lot of time talking about the differences in the
43:58
theology, but the reality is there's people in all of our
44:01
churches that are like hurting and need like the wisdom Lila
44:05
has about marriage and, and like really reducing that.
44:08
So like the lowest common denominator and saying, hey, as
44:12
a woman, here's some game I'm going to give you, right.
44:14
And so that that that's, you know that.
44:16
And I think we all can gleam and learn from.
44:18
I mean, that's why I'm having. We're doing our blessed God
44:20
summit. You're coming to that.
44:21
Yeah. And like I, I don't know of any
44:24
other Protestants, with the exception of Preston Sprinkles,
44:27
who is having Catholics and Eastern Orthodox folks at their
44:30
events. You know, it.
44:31
I'm like, yeah, and. I do end up at a lot of
44:35
evangelical events because I was even like, I know.
44:37
You're from the world. I come from the world and I also
44:40
because of pro-life, like that's a very ecumenical space, which
44:43
is really beautiful. Yeah.
44:44
So we have Catholics and evangelicals constantly working
44:47
together, Orthodox, Yeah. And people who have just kind of
44:50
maybe nom de nom general. Yeah.
44:52
So I think that, and it's a beautiful thing.
44:54
Yeah. And so I think that's like, my
44:55
heart is, hey, we're in a very interesting time.
44:59
We're in a time where there's massive despair and massive
45:02
opportunity. There's massive brokenness and
45:06
massive beauty. How can we come together and
45:08
say, man, there's some aspects that the Orthodox really get and
45:12
there's some aspect that Catholics could get and there's
45:14
some aspects that Protestants get, and let's communicate those
45:18
things and help people apply and do those things.
45:21
I, what I, what I do think a lot of Protestants are doing really
45:24
well right now, which I, I would like to see more cash like
45:28
Catholic parish ministries model after is certain aspects of
45:33
community building where there's really this intentional focus.
45:35
And, and again, I'm not saying no Catholic churches do this or
45:37
every Protestant church does this, But I will say in that
45:40
world, there's so much such an intentionality on, let's figure
45:43
out a way to really make the people here, the families here
45:46
feel part of the community. I know that's really near and
45:48
dear to your heart and what you do at your church, church.
45:50
And I think that is the key because back to what you were
45:52
saying earlier about men who are converting, like the big
45:55
question of all these people converting, they're looking for,
45:58
they need to change not just an idea in their mind about who God
46:02
is, but how they live their life.
46:04
And you can't do that by yourself.
46:05
You need to do that in community.
46:07
And if you're going to pursue something like marriage and a
46:09
family project, having kids, you can't do that alone.
46:12
You need a community to do that that shares your beliefs.
46:15
Yes and Amen. And I was just again, I spoke to
46:18
a pastor group of pastors in church leaders at in San
46:21
Antonio. And one of the things I was
46:23
talking about there was like, hey, the Catholics and Orthodox,
46:26
they're not afraid to call people to more.
46:28
And we need to do a better job of calling people to more, not
46:30
less. We need to stop lowering the on
46:32
ramp to the lowest common denominator in the room and
46:34
coddling people. No, like this is the standard.
46:37
Yes, we're all going to fall short of the glory of God, but
46:38
this is the standard. No, you can't sleep with your
46:40
girlfriend and still serve in this church.
46:42
No, you need to stop, repent, don't do that no more.
46:45
And I think Catholic and Orthodox folks, I feel like the
46:47
standard is a standard and like you're either in or you're not.
46:51
We're not going to lower the standard for you, I think.
46:53
Although in practice, there can be issues too in the Catholic
46:56
Church, meaning you can have, you can have a priest who's
46:59
well-intentioned, who's saying all these masses and he fails to
47:02
talk in his homily about certain thorny moral issues, even though
47:06
the church's teaching is clear. He's not going to mirror that to
47:09
the congregation because he doesn't want to deal with the
47:11
fallout. So that does happen.
47:12
Yeah, it does, but I mean in terms of the hierarchical
47:14
nature. Of that is clear like.
47:16
These things are set. You don't, we don't get to
47:18
decide, you know, these moral issues or these cultural issues.
47:22
And we don't back down from it, from a hierarchical structure.
47:26
And that's kind of what I'm telling a lot of folks in our
47:28
circles is like, men need to be called to more, not less.
47:31
Men need to be told you can rise to the occasion.
47:35
You're you're capable of more than what you think you're doing
47:37
right now. You think that you're incapable
47:40
of not being sexually immoral. No God can free you of that.
47:43
And so I think calling people, especially young men to more,
47:45
not less is something that I'm, I'm telling my, my people in my
47:49
circles like, Hey, stop lowering the on ramp that we're not
47:52
coddling people. We're going to call now.
47:54
We, we can have compassion and mercy and, and be present and
47:56
counsel and all that sort of stuff.
47:57
But let's stop with this. Like, hey, you know, we don't
48:01
talk about this issue publicly. We talk.
48:03
These are private conversations. Like this has been kind of some
48:05
of the rhetoric from folks in my circles.
48:07
I don't like public on like. We don't talk about you
48:10
shouldn't have sex before marriage publicly, you're saying
48:11
or. The issue of LGBTQ.
48:15
OK. Was.
48:16
Sexuality was said. To Oprah Winfrey by a mega
48:19
church pastor about 10 years ago.
48:22
Eight years ago by a mega church pastor that's.
48:24
Something meaning he wouldn't answer her about LGBT like what
48:27
the Bible says about this because he didn't.
48:29
Want people to belong? You belong here.
48:31
You belong here. You belong here and that's the
48:34
conversation we have privately and not have, and we don't make
48:37
statements publicly, which is just wrong.
48:40
We do both. Hide with the church and the
48:42
Bible says. Yeah, both.
48:43
Yeah, we have privately and we have public stances, you know,
48:47
So that's what I'm encouraging people to like.
48:49
We can't because it doesn't serve that person.
48:51
Well, no, it doesn't. The LGBTQ person that comes and
48:54
you're telling me you belong, You belong.
48:56
You belong. And then you're like, I, I
48:57
belong. I can serve here.
48:59
Not, not in this. You can you can you can you can
49:02
be on the worship band, but you can't lead us disturbing is that
49:04
to them like that doesn't serve them well.
49:07
That's that you're, you're kind of lying by saying you belong,
49:10
you belong, you belong, but up until a certain point and the
49:13
and The thing is like, of course, everyone.
49:15
Belongs, but part of the longing is working together against what
49:19
is sin. Amen.
49:20
And attraction is not sin. It can be disordered, but it's
49:24
not sin acting out on a wrong, you know, attraction.
49:29
And it doesn't have to be homosexual.
49:31
It can be straight, yes. You can be not married and act
49:33
out on a straight attraction. Yes.
49:34
And that's morally wrong. So it's not like, oh, there's
49:37
only sin that happens in the LGBTQ community that.
49:40
I mean, if someone's saying that they are a hypocrite, you know,
49:42
that's not true because you can sin just as much as a straight
49:45
person. Yes, You can sin just as much as
49:47
anyone. Yeah.
49:48
Because we all have inclinations or temptations.
49:51
And we're like, the Christian path is to pick up the cross and
49:54
follow Christ as best we can. We fall down.
49:56
We get up again, we ask for forgiveness, we get up again,
49:58
Yeah. And I think saying that that
50:00
aspect. I think maybe sometimes with the
50:01
church has done not a great job as honing in on that issue too
50:05
much instead of going hey, no, no, no, no, no, all sexual
50:09
perversion, all sexual activity outside of a one man, one woman
50:14
marriage for one lifetime is out all of it.
50:17
And I think maybe we need to be more overt on that and less come
50:22
come down hard on this or don't say anything about this or or
50:24
worse, affirm this, you know, and that's that.
50:27
That's the tension. And so idea.
50:28
I just think people need to be called to more.
50:30
We need to be more clear. I think clarity leads to
50:31
confidence even for the LGBTQ member that at least they know.
50:34
At least they know, yeah, like, I belong here and I got a seat
50:38
at the table here. But I'm called to repent.
50:41
And I and I and I can't be living this lifestyle and be in
50:44
a position of leadership here. Amen.
50:46
All right, One other thing I was going to ask you about with.
50:49
This whole Christian conversion stuff is women.
50:52
I see a lot of it happening among the men in the polling
50:55
that the data shows that, you know, the Gen.
50:57
Z men are becoming more faithful.
51:00
You know, they're going to church or Mass or whatever
51:01
weekly more than the Gen. Z women.
51:05
Again, another project of the show, we do have a much bigger
51:08
female audience than male, but we do have men who listen and
51:11
more than like a chick show would have, we have I think it's
51:13
like 3070 or maybe 3565 men, women for for this show right in
51:17
the 65 women, I think so 65 amazing.
51:20
Women 30. Five men.
51:22
So we still have a lot of men, but it's more women than men.
51:24
But I, I, I look out in like the podcast space and the new media
51:27
space and I, I wish there was more stuff for women.
51:30
I mean, there is stuff, but I do think in the male male oriented
51:34
world, there are a lot of amazing leaders yourself.
51:36
And I'm not saying you don't have women listening to you
51:38
because I know you do. But what is your take on that?
51:41
Do you think that there is more of that is needed or do you
51:44
think there's something else needed entirely?
51:46
Like how do you see kind of Christian female leadership and
51:50
the need for that in the media world?
51:53
One, I think YouTube is a male. Dominated platform already so
51:57
it's going to sway male. Just as it is, and I don't know.
51:59
Those numbers off the top, like male versus on a macro.
52:02
So I think there's already that and men listen to podcast more
52:05
and men listen to podcast more. I think there's.
52:07
That I think there's also the reality that depending on what
52:13
season of life you're in, if a woman is in a season of life
52:17
where perhaps she is a young mother, maybe homeschooling,
52:22
right? Perhaps she doesn't have as much
52:24
disposable time to be consuming podcasts all the time.
52:28
Only Instagram. When you're a mom, homeschool.
52:30
Mom, you only have time for Instagram, you know, like my
52:33
wife doesn't watch. YouTube at all Like she does not
52:35
watch YouTube. And to be fair, I barely watch
52:37
YouTube because I'm a when I'm. Not making YouTube videos.
52:40
I'm a mom or I'm working for live action.
52:42
So yeah, right. And so I think there's, I think
52:43
there's something in that. 'Cause if you're a man, you
52:46
probably have a commute to work, maybe 20-30 minutes.
52:48
It's a great point. You're driving there and back.
52:50
Yeah. So I think.
52:51
There's that. Layer to it.
52:53
So like what maybe you're saying is that whatever kind?
52:55
Of conversion is happening among women it might be honestly
52:59
almost more organic or quieter than what might be happening
53:02
among the men I think so and it might even follow the men a
53:05
little bit because you're dealing with women who are just
53:07
their lifestyle is different innately because we can be
53:10
mothers very yes and and then if I would.
53:13
Have to go a little deeper. I would say that there there are
53:16
women podcasts and women influencers, all that kind of
53:19
stuff. I think how do I say this
53:22
delicately? I think the women not.
53:25
Good at your job? No, no.
53:27
That wasn't going to be. I do think I do.
53:29
Think that about women preaching a lot of times.
53:31
I think a lot of times women, OK, I don't think women can be
53:33
priests. So we are.
53:34
We are. Aligned, we agree on that
53:36
theologic, you know, Jackie Hill, Perry and Lisa.
53:38
Bevere they're they crush it. But yeah, they do crush it.
53:41
They they, they preach really well, so.
53:42
I should have Jackie on the. Show I I I read her.
53:45
Book Gay girl. Good God.
53:47
Yeah, Really. She's sweet.
53:48
I'm friends with her husband. Press.
53:49
The press is going to. Be at the conference.
53:51
We're doing very cool, very cool.
53:52
So I think. That.
53:54
Oftentimes the women who women want to hear from and our
54:00
experts again are busy doing the thing instead of talking about
54:06
doing right. And so like, I stream.
54:09
Monday. Through Thursday, right?
54:10
How many days a week do you guys come in and do your podcast?
54:13
1:00 to 2:00 Yeah, that's a that's a good.
54:15
Point so if you were to be like, I want to be a YouTube streamer.
54:18
It's like you have so many other things going on in your real
54:20
life from live action to your family kind of, and it's not the
54:23
the time and day. Of the day is not the same the
54:25
episode release schedules the same but like for lives.
54:27
I'll be honest, it's not the same.
54:29
Now I have been praying I talked to my husband sometimes about
54:31
what would it look like to restructure our lives where I
54:33
just worked in this in in like a morning time.
54:36
I would have to it would it would affect my work at live
54:39
action is the thing. So it's kind of, that's always
54:41
our question of like, how to like which ministry, how, what,
54:44
what, what to put our time into Kids come first.
54:47
But you know, how do we manage these other things?
54:50
So. So you're busy being a
54:52
practitioner. Yeah, right.
54:54
And then yeah, otherwise what have I to offer like I'm not?
54:57
Serving if I'm not trying to be a Good Wife and I have the best
55:00
husband, so he makes it, he does make it easy for me, which
55:03
again, I'm not saying that to brag.
55:04
I know that it's a privilege that I have.
55:06
And then I've got the best kids. But I mean, I've got children
55:08
that I need to love. But that is my first priority
55:11
and I have to do my best at that.
55:12
And yeah, I'm not saying I'm doing a great job, guys, but I'm
55:14
I'm trying. Yeah.
55:15
And that's and that's good. Like that's great.
55:18
And so I think I think that's a really serious layer.
55:20
And I think there are women that do a good job that are like the
55:24
exception to the rules. Like Girls Gone Bible is
55:26
crushing it right now, like touring and doing all the stuff,
55:30
but they're too young single women.
55:31
Yeah. So that already limits.
55:34
Their audience, right? You have to, I think they're
55:36
single. Forgive me if you guys are
55:38
watching this and I'm I'm pretty sure they're both single so that
55:40
they're not married. They're not married, they don't
55:42
have kids, so they're. So that already.
55:44
Limits the authority they have and that they're probably not
55:47
going to appeal to the 35 year old mom and Lisa I've I've
55:50
talked to Lisa Bebert about. This and she had quieter seasons
55:54
when her kids were younger. She is on the road a lot now.
55:57
She has podcast, she's speaking, she's preaching, she's doing all
55:59
of this stuff, right. But she's doing it at a level
56:02
she wasn't doing. Like the frequency of some of
56:03
the stuff she's doing now was different when the kids were
56:06
younger. Yeah, yeah, So yeah, and and and
56:09
I'm all listen. I this might.
56:10
Sound crazy. I think that the quality of
56:15
women's content is often times better and and and in terms of
56:19
like you're a real authority on the things you talk about.
56:22
In my opinion, Lisa is a real authority on the things she
56:24
talks about. So I'm almost like you guys off
56:27
to Jackie and her husband. They have a podcast together.
56:29
You guys are almost like the quality is better so the
56:32
frequency is lower. I think that's OK.
56:34
We're on the men's side of things.
56:36
You got a lot of guys who are making content that like they
56:40
don't they had they don't got much going for themselves,
56:42
right. They just kind of got lucky on
56:44
YouTube. Not all, but generally speaking,
56:46
this is more real. Your content is good though,
56:49
like your quality is really. Good.
56:50
And you've got the quantity. Yeah, but I was.
56:52
I lived behind the scenes. Before I ever got on YouTube for
56:55
1520 years and and never like being a dad being a husband.
56:59
Yeah, it's a good thing doing. These things behind the scenes
57:01
and so I think there's a lot of men's.
57:02
Content that is not coming from the overflow of living a a life
57:09
that honors God and that they're just kind of figuring it out as
57:12
they go. And God can breathe on that
57:13
stuff too. So what I'm saying is I think
57:15
there's almost a a lot of content for men and, but
57:19
sometimes the quality of it isn't good.
57:21
Maybe the frequency is high, but the quality of it is good.
57:23
Whereas like when women, your guys's stuff is way higher
57:27
quality. It's actually from an overflow
57:29
of the things that God is chiseling you guys into
57:32
anything. And and so I think it's good
57:34
like, but, but I do want to see like I think I wish I want Lisa
57:37
to have a million subscribers and just her voice speaking into
57:40
young woman's lives. She was incredible on my
57:43
podcast. She's incredible.
57:44
You know, so I I think I think it'll happen as YouTube goes
57:48
more and more mainstream, like the moment YouTube really
57:50
replaces TV and Netflix, I think that's when we'll see the
57:53
floodgates and you'll see more content from all types of
57:56
people. Amazing.
57:58
Thank you. That's encouraging.
57:59
Thank you, Rusan. You're welcome.
58:00
Thanks for coming on again. Always good to see you keep up
58:03
with great work and people check this out.
58:05
It's it's a gorgeous journal. Yeah, I get to keep that the 60
58:07
day devotion. So beautiful.
58:09
So yeah, this is available. What is this?
58:10
Whenever. This comes out.
58:12
This is available now and yeah, I'm super proud of it.
58:15
So it's beautiful. Thank you.
58:16
Appreciate it A. Huge thank you to our partner.
58:19
EWTNEWTN is the largest religious network reaching
58:24
millions of people with the truth of the faith,
58:26
entertainment and news. Check them out at ewtn.com.