Latest / The Lila Rose Show / E310: Scientists Still Can’t Debunk These Miracles w/Fr Robert Spitzer | Lila Rose Show

Transcript

E310: Scientists Still Can’t Debunk These Miracles w/Fr Robert Spitzer | Lila Rose Show · The Lila Rose Show

• 0:00
  Why did I not know about this before, where communion, bread
• 0:03
  and wine actually becomes human blood and flesh?
• 0:06
  Eduardo Lenoli, the Doctor Who examined it, could identify the
• 0:10
  blood type. And what was the blood type?
• 0:11
  AB It's the same blood type as the Shroud of Turin and all the
• 0:14
  other Eucharistic hosts. Which would mean that Jesus
• 0:17
  theoretically would have had this blood type.
• 0:19
  It's. All wounded living heart tissue.
• 0:22
  What does that mean? Wounded living heart.
• 0:24
  Did you have multiple traumatic injury, like somebody beating
• 0:28
  the person on the chest, frankly torturing them?
• 0:32
  Tissue disconnected from an embodied circulatory system
• 0:35
  that's manifesting activities that can only happen in living
• 0:39
  tissue. That's a miracle.
• 0:41
  If these Eucharistic miracles are real, why isn't the world
• 0:43
  talking about them more? Father Spitzer, welcome back to
• 0:50
  the podcast. Thank you.
• 0:51
  It's great to be with you again, Lila.
• 0:53
  I've heard rave reviews of some of your recent talks you've been
• 0:56
  giving on Eucharistic miracles. What are Eucharistic miracles?
• 1:02
  Well, Eucharistic miracles are a manifestation of, you know, some
• 1:08
  form of blood, or in this case, the ones I'll be talking about,
• 1:13
  heart tissue that are emerging out of a consecrated host.
• 1:18
  We were discussing before we sat down here about the the
• 1:21
  Eucharistic miracle and Lanciano, and I want to start
• 1:25
  with that one because when I was in Rome, I was first learning
• 1:28
  even about what are Eucharistic miracles.
• 1:31
  I had no idea growing up as a Christian what these were, that
• 1:34
  they existed. I'm in Rome.
• 1:36
  I have a friend who's a priest and some other friends and
• 1:38
  they're like, let's go check out Lanciano, the miracle of
• 1:41
  Lanciano. I said, oh, sure.
• 1:43
  We hop in a car, we drive a few hours to the beautiful
• 1:45
  countryside and I'm in this tiny little church staring at this
• 1:49
  thing and I'm like, what is this?
• 1:51
  And, and why did I not know about this before?
• 1:54
  Why doesn't every Christian on the planet know about this
• 1:58
  before? Where communion, bread and wine
• 2:01
  as Catholics believe this is actually Jesus Christ, Body,
• 2:04
  blood, soul and divinity is not just in the species of bread and
• 2:07
  wine anymore. It actually becomes human blood
• 2:10
  and flesh. So can you walk us through the
• 2:12
  Lanciano miracle, what it is from?
• 2:14
  I think the eight, the 8 hundreds.
• 2:16
  Yeah, yeah, 800, yeah. And so as you just indicated,
• 2:22
  the Lanciano host is 1200 years old.
• 2:27
  Now, of course that, you know, people will say right away, you
• 2:30
  know, who are skeptics 1200 years, you know, how are you
• 2:34
  going to control, you know, custody, you know, and guarantee
• 2:38
  that you have, you know, a controlled, you know, custody.
• 2:41
  Well, the answer is you can't. It's it's totally impossible.
• 2:46
  The other three miracles I'll be talking about later, now that
• 2:49
  would be Buenos Aires, Tixla and Sekolka.
• 2:53
  You can control the chain of custody.
• 2:56
  So they're more modern. They're more modern.
• 2:58
  Just the last couple decades. That's right.
• 2:59
  And scientists were put well, in the case of Tixley and Sekolka,
• 3:05
  they were, you know, it was placed into the hands of
• 3:07
  scientists right away and thanks.
• 3:10
  And and also in Buenos Aires, thanks to to Archbishop
• 3:13
  Bergoglio at the time, you know, it was also had a guaranteed
• 3:17
  chain of custody control as well.
• 3:19
  But you know, the, the main point is with Lanciano, even
• 3:23
  though we don't have that, a doctor, Lionel Eduardo Lino, who
• 3:29
  is a, you know, really an excellent cardiologist,
• 3:32
  histopathologist in Rome, in Italy, he essentially did, you
• 3:39
  know, one of the first investigations of a Eucharistic
• 3:42
  miracle. He did a careful investigation.
• 3:45
  When you have something that that is 1200 years old, you have
• 3:50
  to be exceedingly careful. So you, you can obviously
• 3:55
  there's going to, there's a great deal of dehydration,
• 3:57
  right, a great deal of drying that that goes on.
• 4:01
  And so you know, the, the, the blood remainders and the host
• 4:05
  remainders, you know where the flesh was manifest in, in the
• 4:09
  host. You have to be exceedingly
• 4:11
  careful. And he was, he did a very good
• 4:14
  job. He pulled in experts of other
• 4:16
  kinds to to also confirm what he was doing.
• 4:20
  Can I can I interrupt with a quick question before you
• 4:22
  describe his process to to ascertain is this real?
• 4:25
  Is this real flesh and what does it mean if some if there is a
• 4:29
  some blood and flesh that's eat that's sorry 1200 or you know,
• 4:33
  going on 1300 years old, wouldn't it just decay,
• 4:38
  evaporate, you know, not be something that could even be
• 4:41
  tested? You're right on the mark, so
• 4:43
  just. Starting right there.
• 4:44
  That seems miraculous if indeed this is 1200 years old.
• 4:48
  Exceed, you're very insightful and that is the case.
• 4:52
  We would expect, you know, that there would be decomposition in
• 4:56
  the tissue to the point where there really isn't anything like
• 5:01
  what we would call a, a morphological indication of
• 5:04
  cardiac tissue. The interesting thing that
• 5:08
  Linolee discovered is not only do you have tissue that has
• 5:14
  grown out of this host and blood that is still kind of in a
• 5:18
  dehydrated granular form, almost like kind of like little pieces
• 5:24
  of instant coffee almost it, you know, would have the composition
• 5:27
  like that. You, you look at that and you
• 5:30
  would say to yourself, oh gosh, how can you be so sure, You know
• 5:35
  that, that you know, after 1200 years that this is cardiac
• 5:39
  tissue because you're still more morphological means you can tell
• 5:43
  by the kind of tissue like cardiac tissue has striations in
• 5:48
  it. And those striations you can
• 5:50
  tell from the, from the different kinds of striations.
• 5:53
  Oh, this comes from the upper left ventricle or this comes
• 5:56
  from, you know, whatever part of the heart you know that that is
• 6:00
  coming from. So interestingly enough, how
• 6:04
  after 1200 years do you have an indication of this?
• 6:10
  And the answer is you shouldn't have.
• 6:13
  It's a miracle. In and of itself.
• 6:15
  That is already naturalistically, from my point
• 6:20
  of view, naturalistically inexplicable.
• 6:23
  There are some people who might say, wow, there's right one,
• 6:25
  some possible. And how do we know that
• 6:27
  preservatives weren't put into? Well, we know it because Eduardo
• 6:31
  Lignoli, whose word I trust, basically said I tested for
• 6:37
  every known preservative that would have been available at the
• 6:39
  time from Saline and Eulessa, bunch of possible preservatives.
• 6:44
  They're just not there. So I mean, what do I do?
• 6:50
  I have to take his word for it. He's a notable Dr. and
• 6:54
  scientist, good histopathologist.
• 6:56
  You know, I, I don't doubt it for a single second.
• 7:00
  And by the way, I, I also believe it because when I look
• 7:03
  at the three contemporary miracles, we see, you know, the
• 7:06
  same phenomena, right? We we see that there's an A real
• 7:10
  absence of decomposition such that morphological indications
• 7:15
  are present. The Tix law host is not as easy
• 7:18
  because that piece of tissue is not as large, but it is emitting
• 7:22
  blood and I'll talk about that later.
• 7:25
  And we can there's certain kinds of cells like elongated cells
• 7:30
  and, and you know, contraction notes that are particular to
• 7:33
  heart cells that you can identify and say, ah, that's
• 7:37
  heart tissue, but you can't see the typical striations.
• 7:41
  Well, in the case of Lanciano, a 1200 year host, you know, Lenoli
• 7:47
  actually saw these indications, these morphological indications
• 7:51
  of heart tissue and actually tested the blood.
• 7:55
  Like I said, it's almost like teeny little instant coffee.
• 7:58
  You know, it's very, you know, dehydrated.
• 8:01
  And he was very careful with it, but he could identify the blood
• 8:05
  type that was there and. What was the blood?
• 8:08
  AB it's the same blood type as all as the Shroud of Turin and
• 8:13
  all the other Eucharistic hosts. They all have the same blood
• 8:16
  type AB, which would mean that Jesus Christ theoretically would
• 8:20
  have had this physical blood type.
• 8:22
  Well, that's right. And that's very unusual because
• 8:26
  AB blood type is the rare, it's the universal receiver blood
• 8:29
  type and it's the rarest blood type that we have occurring in
• 8:34
  less than 4% of the population. So you, you know, now you would
• 8:39
  say, OK, well we have these 4 Eucharistic miracles plus the
• 8:44
  Shroud of Turin. By the way, there are many more
• 8:47
  Eucharistic miracles than I'm talking about.
• 8:50
  The ones I'm talking about have undergone significant scientific
• 8:54
  testing. There are hundreds of
• 8:55
  Eucharistic miracles. Yes, if you go back, there's
• 8:58
  Carlos Acutis, who was just recently canonized as a St.
• 9:02
  He has a website that literally, you know, puts out all of these
• 9:08
  eucharistic miracles. He was really amazing in his
• 9:11
  research abilities as a young man.
• 9:14
  But the the point I get to, though, is I just limited myself
• 9:20
  to where I could see, let signed lab reports that those
• 9:24
  scientists are willing to put their whole livelihoods, their
• 9:29
  credibility, their scientific reputation on the line.
• 9:33
  It's not easy to do this. The minute you come out and say,
• 9:37
  I think this is, you know, valid.
• 9:40
  You know, you're likely to get a bad reception from skeptics in
• 9:44
  the scientific community. So you, you really put yourself
• 9:48
  at risk from a scientific point of view if you come out and say,
• 9:52
  as far as I'm concerned, you know, this, this looks, you
• 9:56
  know, like it's, it's an authentic miracle because it is
• 10:00
  naturalistically inexplicable on five levels.
• 10:04
  And but scientists have done, and I'll talk about those
• 10:07
  scientists, you know, in in a moment who've really put
• 10:13
  themselves on on the line. Another quick question here
• 10:17
  before you kind of lay the ground of what this scientist in
• 10:20
  particular found Lanciano and then we go into the modern,
• 10:22
  modern miracles, What is so significant about it being
• 10:28
  throughout all of these miracles, heart tissue?
• 10:31
  For me, it's, it's literally for an image for me of the Sacred
• 10:38
  Heart, the living heart of Christ.
• 10:40
  And I think I can give you enough evidence of that in a
• 10:45
  moment. The significance of the AB blood
• 10:48
  type in the heart tissue. And by the way, it's all wounded
• 10:53
  living heart tissue. What does that mean?
• 10:56
  Wounded living heart tissue. In other words, heart has
• 10:59
  undergone Poly trauma and the you can tell there.
• 11:04
  For each of the miracles I'll talk about today, there are
• 11:07
  various different indications of polytrauma.
• 11:11
  So what? Is polytrauma.
• 11:13
  Oh, that you have a multiple traumatic injury, like somebody
• 11:18
  beating the person on the chest, you know, or well, frankly
• 11:24
  torturing them and so forth. So, you know, multiple traumas
• 11:30
  of various different kinds. That would suggest that the
• 11:34
  person underwent, well, torture, not just, you know, torture on a
• 11:40
  violent level, but to the point of death.
• 11:43
  In the case of the Sekol Co host, we actually do see the
• 11:47
  fragmenting in the segmenting of the tissue that occurs.
• 11:52
  You don't like a second before? Well, no, many seconds before
• 11:57
  death, the heart is trying to keep the body alive.
• 12:02
  So it basically starts trying to beat super fast because the rest
• 12:08
  of the body, right, the organs are giving out, right?
• 12:11
  So it's trying to kind of keep that blood flowing.
• 12:15
  And so the heart just starts going right very, very fast and
• 12:20
  it's literally tearing itself apart.
• 12:23
  This only happens in cardiac tissue.
• 12:26
  This is a fragmenting and segmenting.
• 12:28
  So you can actually see that this person is seconds away from
• 12:34
  dying, literally on the verge of death.
• 12:37
  But it also means that the tissue is alive because if the
• 12:41
  tissue were not alive, you would never ident, be able to identify
• 12:46
  the segmenting and the fragmenting in it.
• 12:48
  Because once tissue dies, it just kind of blends into a, a
• 12:54
  mass, you know, the definable features start disappearing,
• 12:59
  especially this feature. And Doctor Elisabetta Lukovska
• 13:05
  and Stanislaus Lukovski, they were two independent researchers
• 13:10
  that actually, you know, looked at this, these hosts under
• 13:16
  electron microscopy. And both of them said the tissue
• 13:19
  has to be non necrosis. It has to be living tissue.
• 13:23
  Because of course, as I said, if the tissue died, it would just
• 13:27
  turn into mush, right? It it would just
• 13:30
  undifferentiable mush and very, very quickly.
• 13:34
  And so to, to see it now, you know, several years after the
• 13:38
  manifestation of the miracle, you'd, you'd have to have living
• 13:42
  heart tissue there. And by the way, there's several
• 13:44
  other indications of the living heart tissue, which I'll talk
• 13:46
  about as you go through each of the miracles.
• 13:49
  But the main thing right now is we find multiple indications of
• 13:54
  polytrauma that are there, that even the presence of the white
• 13:57
  blood cells will another sign of the living heart tissue, which
• 14:01
  I'll talk about. You know, white blood cells go
• 14:04
  to a place where there's a problem, right?
• 14:07
  There's a wound, there's an infection.
• 14:10
  There are, you know, lipids, fat cells that are basically not
• 14:16
  good cells, you know, unhealthy cells that are being manifested.
• 14:20
  And you can actually see in two of the miracles I'll talk about,
• 14:24
  you can see that the white blood cells, these are macrophages,
• 14:28
  are actually faggasitizing lip lipids, and they're engulfing
• 14:32
  the lipids and destroying these unhealthy cells there.
• 14:37
  Now, if it weren't living tissue, you know, I mean what
• 14:41
  you would expect if the tissue is disconnected from an embodied
• 14:45
  circulatory system, you'd say, well, hey, you know, how can
• 14:49
  that be living? And, and we'll talk about some
• 14:51
  of the the doctors who looked at this and they were amazed.
• 14:56
  But anyway, go. Ahead, what you're saying, what
• 14:59
  it sounds like you're saying is that not only is all the blood
• 15:02
  type the same with all these eucharistic miracles, including
• 15:04
  this one from 18, the 8 hundreds Manciano AB, which is very rare,
• 15:08
  4% of the population, the the tissue, not the blood.
• 15:13
  The tissue is from the heart. It's under distress in all
• 15:17
  cases, and it's not dead, which seems like in itself a miracle.
• 15:22
  Oh, that's totally a miracle. Tissue disconnected from an
• 15:26
  embodied circulatory system that's manifesting activities
• 15:31
  that can only happen in living tissue.
• 15:34
  That's a miracle. So don't all the scientists
• 15:37
  agree? That's crazy.
• 15:39
  I mean, is there is there a single scientist who's been
• 15:41
  like, Nah, you guys like, you know, put a secret, I don't
• 15:46
  know, robot in there to make it seem alive.
• 15:48
  I don't know how you would even do it.
• 15:49
  But or you keep chopping off parts of someone's heart and
• 15:52
  keep on adding it to keep it alive.
• 15:53
  I don't even know what would it, how would you physically do
• 15:56
  that? You can't really do it, and you
• 15:58
  certainly can't make it so connected to the tissue, to the
• 16:02
  consecrated OS, which is. Coming out, it's like.
• 16:05
  It's literally growing. It's.
• 16:07
  Growing out of a piece of bread which is also not decomposing.
• 16:10
  That is correct after by the way.
• 16:13
  And when we talk about Buenos Aires and Tixla, you'll see that
• 16:17
  these hosts and several cases had been put into water, like
• 16:22
  for in the case of Buenos Aires, 40 days, then the pictures were
• 16:26
  taken of the host, then for three years back then a
• 16:32
  sterilized water for three years.
• 16:35
  And you can see that there is still significant parts.
• 16:39
  I mean, literally, if you put a host in water, it'll dissolve,
• 16:42
  you know, within a week, the whole thing will be dissolved in
• 16:45
  water. That's how you dispose of a host
• 16:48
  for. Example.
• 16:49
  That's correct. That and consecrated communion.
• 16:53
  Exactly. And you normally you put it in
• 16:55
  water. If like a host dropped on the
• 16:58
  ground and got very dirty, you don't expect a person to consume
• 17:02
  that host. You put it in water and then you
• 17:04
  pour that water directly into the ground in a sacred space to,
• 17:10
  you know, piously, you know, just, you know, take care of
• 17:15
  the, the, the host, which is now dissolved into the water and the
• 17:20
  species is, is gone. Well, normally this happens
• 17:24
  within a week. Well, you know, at most a week.
• 17:29
  And now all of a sudden, you know, three years later, you
• 17:33
  still have not only noticeable, you know, I mean, no autolysis
• 17:38
  has taken place in the tissue, right?
• 17:39
  No decomposition dissembling that would happen normally with
• 17:44
  dead tissue, right? You, you would see that tissue
• 17:48
  would just in water for three years, it should undergo
• 17:52
  significant autolysis to the point of absolutely no
• 17:56
  morphological indication should be present.
• 17:58
  And here, ECM Buenos Aires, these things, I'll tell you
• 18:02
  Frederick Zugaby, you actually did you know, he was at NYU and
• 18:06
  Columbia, NY pathologist basically, you know, it just
• 18:12
  shocked and amazed him, you know, to to see, you know, how
• 18:15
  how can this be? You know, but we'll, I'll talk
• 18:18
  about that when I actually. So back to Lanciano.
• 18:20
  So yeah, sorry, no, no, I can't wait to get there.
• 18:24
  I'm like, let's go. But I'm people listener.
• 18:25
  Like what about Lanciano? Well, Lanciano, it's 1200 years
• 18:29
  old and you still have morphological indications of
• 18:32
  those. That's like, naturalistically
• 18:34
  inexplicable. It's so crazy.
• 18:36
  If you want to have the best phone coverage possible while
• 18:39
  also supporting your values of faith, family and freedom,
• 18:43
  Patriot Mobile is the option. Patriot Mobile offers the same,
• 18:46
  if not better coverage of all the three major US networks and
• 18:51
  you can keep your number and activate it in minutes.
• 18:53
  And everything is backed by a 100% US based customer support
• 18:58
  team. Get everything you need and
• 18:59
  expect from a top tier service provider while putting your
• 19:03
  money towards values that you believe in.
• 19:05
  So right now, go to patriotmobile.com/lila or call
• 19:09
  972 PATRIOT. That's 972 PATRIOT with code
• 19:13
  Lila and you'll get a month of free service.
• 19:16
  Shop America, shop.freedom@patriotmobilethatspatriotmobile.com/lila
• 19:21
  or call 972 PATRIOT with code Lila for a free month today.
• 19:26
  Stay prayed up. You've probably heard this
• 19:28
  phrase. And starting this April, you can
• 19:30
  join Mark Wahlberg on the Hallow app for a daily prayer challenge
• 19:35
  to help you. Yes, Stay Prayed up.
• 19:37
  This challenge aims at helping us to take up the biblical call
• 19:40
  to pray without ceasing not just an occasional activity, but make
• 19:45
  prayer integrated into our entire lives.
• 19:47
  When you give God the space to speak, you open up your life to
• 19:51
  his words, his teachings, and his promises for your life.
• 19:54
  So right now, check out hallow.com/lila for a completely
• 19:57
  free three month trial. You'll find the Stay Prayed Up
• 20:01
  challenge and. Thousands of other resources for
• 20:03
  you and your kids. That's 90 days completely free
• 20:06
  at hallow.com/lila. What is happening?
• 20:10
  When the Eucharistic miracle first manifests.
• 20:14
  And what's the story of Lanciano?
• 20:16
  So why in some cases does Jesus Christ decide with the host and,
• 20:23
  and the, and the, and the sacred blood to say the wine, you know,
• 20:26
  this is now in the species of bread and wine to say, OK, I'm
• 20:29
  going to do a miracle now. And it's actually going to turn
• 20:31
  into my actual flesh. And everyone's going to be like,
• 20:33
  Oh my gosh, I mean, what was happening at Lanciano that the
• 20:37
  miracle took place? Well, there's a good personal
• 20:40
  reason for it. And of course, I think of
• 20:43
  course, the Lord has in mind he was looking at our current, you
• 20:48
  know, 21st century skeptical scientific, you know,
• 20:52
  generation. And he's trying to help us to
• 20:55
  have evidence which has undergone significant scientific
• 20:58
  scrutiny, which indicates, you know, that this is no fraud.
• 21:03
  This is something which is naturalistically inexplicable.
• 21:07
  So I, I think he has both more. But in the case, the personal
• 21:09
  motive here is a monk. It was literally having doubts
• 21:14
  about the Holy Eucharist and so in the year 800.
• 21:19
  And he was consecrating. He was doing, saying a mass
• 21:21
  consecrating. The bread and wine.
• 21:23
  That's right. And according to his own
• 21:25
  testimony, you know, he began to to see that the actual species
• 21:31
  began to arise, you know, out of the host.
• 21:34
  And in the case of the precious blood, the same thing was
• 21:39
  happening, that it was changing in its substantial character.
• 21:44
  Now you know. What did he do?
• 21:46
  Well, you know, basically he reported it to his superiors and
• 21:50
  thank God his superiors had the, the, the thought of, you know,
• 21:55
  preserving it and, and you know, they did it in a way.
• 22:00
  Like I said, the chain of custody can't be guaranteed in
• 22:03
  any scientific way, but the chain of custody is certainly
• 22:10
  good for at least about 120 years, which itself is really
• 22:15
  amazing. So, I mean, it doesn't have to
• 22:17
  be 1200 years old, but 120 years.
• 22:20
  You can pretty much say, you know, that was in, you know,
• 22:24
  custody of these monks. And Eduardo Lee Noli, the Doctor
• 22:27
  Who examined it between 72 to guess 78 right in that region,
• 22:34
  who investigated the host, He basically checked the chain of
• 22:38
  custody going as far back as he could go, you know, but you
• 22:42
  know, he did test it for, you know, preservatives.
• 22:45
  I mean, if you have, you know, a tissue that obviously the, the,
• 22:49
  the tissue is dehydrated. It is, you know, it's very old
• 22:54
  and we would expect it to be dehydrated, but for it to have
• 22:58
  those morphological indications right there, identifiable blood
• 23:02
  type, the AB blood type, and no sign of preservatives of any
• 23:07
  kind, certainly of any kind that would be utilizable, you know,
• 23:12
  1200 years ago, let alone 120 years ago.
• 23:16
  The fact that those things are absent, it makes it whoa.
• 23:20
  So did the monk stop doubting? Oh, yes, he did.
• 23:25
  Yeah. Oh, my goodness.
• 23:26
  This is this is blood and blood and flesh.
• 23:28
  And so then and, and all of the monks that you know, he was
• 23:31
  with, they said, wow, this is a miracle.
• 23:34
  We can't consume this, right? Because typically, you know, a
• 23:37
  consecrated host, you consume it and you complete, you drink the
• 23:40
  wine. You don't just leave the
• 23:41
  consecrated host on the wine indefinitely somewhere.
• 23:43
  You consume it as part of a regular process of, you know,
• 23:46
  the masses and consecrations and, and receiving of the
• 23:49
  Eucharist. But in this case, they're like,
• 23:51
  this is this is flesh could tell they didn't do scientific
• 23:55
  investigations the way that Lenoli would later on do them.
• 23:57
  But they said this is flesh and human blood.
• 24:00
  We're not going to eat it. You're right on the market.
• 24:02
  We're just going to keep it and just wonder at what God is doing
• 24:06
  here. That's right.
• 24:07
  So essentially they wanted to put it into a place where it
• 24:12
  would be safe, where, you know, they, you know, obviously Italy,
• 24:18
  you know, you go through wars, things like that.
• 24:21
  You know, they tried to keep it in a place where it would be
• 24:24
  secure, where it'd be safe and where it wouldn't be just
• 24:27
  exposed to random elements or human, you know, interference of
• 24:33
  one kind or another. And they did a pretty good job
• 24:35
  at that, actually. But of course, you know, you
• 24:38
  have the, the problems of breaks in the guarantee of the chain of
• 24:42
  custody and so forth that, you know, will 'cause people to be
• 24:47
  suspicious about it. But because of its similarities
• 24:51
  to the other three contemporary miracles that I'll be talking
• 24:54
  about, I think it really has a lot of credibility.
• 24:58
  I mean, I wouldn't make, you know, the whole argument on the
• 25:01
  basis of the Lanciano host. I, I do what's called a
• 25:05
  preponderance of evidence. I look at that host and the
• 25:09
  other three hosts from Buenos Aires Takes and Sekolka and I
• 25:14
  look at all three, all four of the hosts together.
• 25:18
  And that causes you to be more secure because you see similar
• 25:23
  features. But also what's important is you
• 25:25
  see the same characteristics like living heart tissue or
• 25:30
  heart tissue itself, or, you know, blood type itself, or you
• 25:35
  know, the fact that there's an absence of a tolysis in the
• 25:39
  decomposition, the tissue and decomposition, the host that you
• 25:43
  already pointed out all these things, you start putting them
• 25:46
  together again and again. And by the way, the AB blood
• 25:49
  type for people who like probability theory, remember AB
• 25:53
  blood type only occurs in 4% of the population.
• 25:57
  So if you just take the four Eucharistic miracles and the
• 26:00
  Shroud of Turin that I'll be talking about today, all of
• 26:03
  which have AB blood type, it's, you know, point O 4.
• 26:07
  Remember, 4% is 41 hundredths. So it's point O four times,
• 26:12
  point O four times, point O four times, point O four times, point
• 26:15
  O 4. Now you just multiply that out
• 26:18
  on your little calculator and look at the number of zeros in
• 26:22
  front of the final result, the probability of those.
• 26:26
  Of them all being that. Of all having it would.
• 26:28
  Have to be a master conspiracy. Yep, because the probability is
• 26:32
  like 1 trillion trillionth. OK, so I want to come back to
• 26:37
  the critics. Yeah, yeah.
• 26:38
  And I'm going to actually throw at you some of the greatest
• 26:42
  critics. But before that, let's go
• 26:44
  through each of these modern day Eucharistic miracles.
• 26:48
  Let's go in order. Let's go first with Buenos
• 26:51
  Aires, which happened in 1996. Beautiful.
• 26:54
  And then go to a Tixla in 2006 and then to Sequoka Wonderful in
• 26:59
  2008. So what was the context within
• 27:02
  which the miracle in Buenos Aires in 1996 happened?
• 27:06
  1996 yeah. The context is, you know, a host
• 27:11
  was taken probably at communion time, maybe for some nefarious
• 27:17
  purse purpose, and that the host was taken and left at the back
• 27:21
  of the church, you know, obviously in a place that was
• 27:26
  dirty for whatever reason, the host was left that later when
• 27:31
  the one of the ushers was, you know, closing up the church, the
• 27:35
  host was discovered, you know, sticking there in your account
• 27:39
  candle holder. She brought it to the a priest
• 27:43
  in charge at Saint Mary's Church there in Buenos Aires.
• 27:48
  You know the priest took the host.
• 27:50
  There is no indication at the time of tissue growing out of
• 27:53
  it. She put it into a glass of he
• 27:57
  sorry, the priest put it in to a glass of water and you know to
• 28:01
  dissolve the host usual fashion of piously, you know, you know
• 28:08
  disposing of the remains of the host in the water.
• 28:10
  So essentially he puts it in the Tabernacle.
• 28:15
  Upon examining, you know, this is tap water by the way.
• 28:21
  And so he puts it in there and he begins to notice that
• 28:26
  something is happening in this host as it's sitting in the
• 28:29
  water. Instead of dissolving, there is
• 28:32
  some tissue that's growing out of the host or they didn't know
• 28:37
  it was tissue. It could have been algae at at
• 28:39
  the time. It could have been some other
• 28:41
  foreign red substance like a mold of some kind or another.
• 28:46
  But it seemed to be growing out of the host.
• 28:49
  So of course, this, you know, attracted some attention.
• 28:53
  So the priest said, look, just leave the host in the water, you
• 28:57
  know, for, you know, whatever 30 days and just, you know, in a
• 29:03
  month this thing's going to disappear and, you know, we
• 29:06
  don't have to worry about anything.
• 29:08
  Well, instead of, you know, the, the host disappearing and the
• 29:14
  tissue, oh, they didn't know it was tissue, that the the other
• 29:17
  red substance disappearing, the red substance gets thicker.
• 29:22
  It obviously has grown to some extent while being in the water
• 29:27
  over the course of 30 days. There is still identifiable, you
• 29:31
  know, that the host does not dissolve.
• 29:33
  It's, you can see the pictures of it.
• 29:36
  You know that you can see the remnants of the host that's,
• 29:39
  that's there. So of course the, the, the host
• 29:43
  is, how is this possible after 30 days in, in water?
• 29:47
  So of course they, they told this to Archbishop Bergoglio
• 29:52
  later became Pope Francis and, and Archbishop Bergoglio said
• 29:57
  take pictures of it. So they had a professional
• 30:01
  photographer take pictures of it and they, you know, basically
• 30:06
  put it back into the, at the time they may have taken the
• 30:11
  blood type or they may have looked at this.
• 30:14
  They did look at it under the microscope and they, they could
• 30:18
  at that time even see those striations and morphological
• 30:22
  indications of heart tissue at the time.
• 30:26
  So that that is certainly a possibility of, you know, right
• 30:32
  away, you know, this could be something of significance.
• 30:36
  Where is it now? By the way?
• 30:37
  Where is it? In the church there's you can go
• 30:39
  to that same Church of Saint Mary's in Argentina.
• 30:41
  You can see it for some reason, the Diocese of Buenos Aires,
• 30:46
  they're kind of restricted on the hours.
• 30:48
  You can go and see, but you can definitely go and.
• 30:50
  See, it's no longer kept in water.
• 30:52
  It's. Just no.
• 30:53
  No. In fact, it was taken out after
• 30:55
  the three-year period in water. You know, Pope, I mean,
• 31:00
  Archbishop Bergoglio at the time basically said, you know, take
• 31:04
  this out of the water, you know, do you know an initial
• 31:07
  investigation of this? So they called in, you know,
• 31:11
  Kassignan Gomez to do this. Now you know Kassignan Gomez.
• 31:16
  You know he was, like I said, an agnostic verging on an atheist.
• 31:21
  And what was his credent? What were his credentials?
• 31:22
  Oh, he was a good histopathologist, you know, and
• 31:26
  he was a skeptic and. What's a histopatologist?
• 31:29
  There, that's a person who studies blood and studies well
• 31:32
  dying tissue and and so forth, so.
• 31:35
  Blood and tissue expert. Right, blood and.
• 31:37
  Tissue and was he told hey this used to be a host we think it's
• 31:41
  maybe a eucharistic miracle well he.
• 31:44
  Could see the He could see the leftover of part of the host.
• 31:48
  So he saw. And he could see the the tissue.
• 31:50
  So he again, he took pictures of it right away and you can use a
• 31:56
  technique called digital overlay analysis.
• 32:01
  And with the digital overlay analysis, you can compare the
• 32:05
  autolysis in the tissue from, you know, before and after very,
• 32:11
  very quickly you can see the differential and there's hardly
• 32:15
  any difference. So three years in sterilized
• 32:19
  water without significant autolysis.
• 32:22
  That bizarre right there that got Kazanian Gomez attention.
• 32:28
  That's bizarre for for both the host.
• 32:30
  And bread part. And the tissue part, and it's
• 32:33
  kind of growing out of the bread.
• 32:34
  For both of them to maintain their state in three years in
• 32:38
  sterilized water is inexplicable.
• 32:40
  That is correct. Did he note that in his
• 32:42
  findings? He did, he said.
• 32:45
  Wow, that's. What is that?
• 32:46
  Highly unusual. And so sorry with sterilized
• 32:49
  water, is there saline in that water?
• 32:50
  No. So it's just water?
• 32:52
  Just water, there's no preservatives, all the
• 32:54
  impurities have been taken out of it.
• 32:57
  So by the way, that doesn't help, you know, in the case of,
• 33:01
  you know, preventing atolysis or decomposition of the of the
• 33:06
  host. So the sterilization just means
• 33:09
  there's no impurities that will give rise to an algae or a, you
• 33:13
  know, something that could be growing in the water.
• 33:16
  So he said, you know, this is really unusual.
• 33:19
  I can see some indications of heart tissue.
• 33:21
  Why don't we see if it has blood type?
• 33:24
  So they did test that they found out it does have AB blood type.
• 33:29
  So I said, well, that's another significant indication that is
• 33:34
  human tissue. There are blood types and cats
• 33:37
  and dogs and things, but basically the difficulty is that
• 33:42
  with the the blood types that are there, they're very
• 33:48
  different. You can tell human AB from any
• 33:51
  other blood type of an animal very, very quickly.
• 33:54
  So there's no question that this is human blood.
• 33:57
  And therefore, since it's, you know, present in a card in what
• 34:02
  appears to be cardiac tissue, we'll just say it's human tissue
• 34:06
  just for the time being. No more extensive analysis had
• 34:09
  been done by Kasniel Gomez. Now essentially he, he, you
• 34:14
  know, he says to Pope, to Archbishop Bergoglio, he
• 34:18
  basically says, well, you know, this thing is unbelievable.
• 34:22
  It looks like our tissue is growing out of it.
• 34:25
  But you know, we, I, I, I would recommend that we send this
• 34:29
  tissue so you know, there's depth to that tissue, right?
• 34:33
  It's not just blood smeared on host.
• 34:35
  You can see the depth of the tissue.
• 34:37
  It's growing it, it has grown into a piece of tissue.
• 34:41
  So they you can just take us a very thin slice and you can put
• 34:46
  it between two very heavy pieces of glass and sent it up to the
• 34:52
  pathology lab, which at the time, you know, the New York
• 34:55
  pathology lab, to a professor of Frederick Zugaby, who is there
• 35:01
  at New York University at the time.
• 35:03
  So Gomez sent it. Yeah, Cassian Gomez sent it to
• 35:07
  to to Frederick Zugaby, but didn't.
• 35:11
  Yeah, but didn't tell him. What it was, so it was a blind,
• 35:14
  it was going to be a blind test by other scientists, experts to
• 35:18
  look at this substance and say, hey, what is this?
• 35:20
  Tell me what? Give me your best analysis.
• 35:22
  What is this and what did they find?
• 35:23
  That's exact. What they found was that this is
• 35:26
  cardiac tissue and that that cardiac tissue comes from the
• 35:31
  upper left ventricle. So you can tell by the, you
• 35:34
  know, the, the narrowness of the striations, you can tell from
• 35:38
  just looking at it. Like I said, if you morphology
• 35:42
  by its form, by its external manifestation, you can tell this
• 35:46
  comes from the upper left ventricle, which is the part of
• 35:49
  the heart, right, that's pumping the blood out to the rest of the
• 35:52
  body. So you can, he says that that's
• 35:55
  unusual and in his pathology, I have a letter from him that
• 36:01
  describes the summarizes his pathology report.
• 36:05
  But basically he says there are three things about this aside
• 36:09
  from the fact that, you know, it's heart tissue, you know,
• 36:12
  it's definitively heart tissue with AB blood type.
• 36:15
  He confirmed that right away. But he says the other thing that
• 36:19
  he detected were living white blood cells embedded in the
• 36:25
  tissue. And that's unusual for two
• 36:27
  reasons. First of all, blood, white blood
• 36:31
  cells, which are the healing cells, right?
• 36:33
  This is not like, you know, you know, red blood cells which are
• 36:39
  functioning to bring oxygen, etcetera through hemoglobin
• 36:43
  right to the parts of the body, right?
• 36:46
  So this is basically a cell that's present when you have a
• 36:52
  wound or an infection or something in the heart.
• 36:56
  So you can see that this white blood cell, these white blood
• 37:00
  cells, Zuckerby said. They're definitely alive.
• 37:04
  And the problem with this is that when you have living white
• 37:10
  blood cells indicating that the tissue is alive, because if
• 37:15
  tissue is disconnected from an embodied circulatory system for
• 37:18
  more than three hours, every one of those white blood cells
• 37:21
  should be dead. So of course, he wanted to know
• 37:25
  what was the origin of this tissue because it almost seemed
• 37:29
  like, you know, you'd have to take a human being, a living
• 37:33
  human being. You'd have to make them undergo
• 37:36
  A Poly trauma. So torture them first, then open
• 37:40
  them up and take a chunk of their beating heart.
• 37:43
  And then you could get the living white blood tissues, you
• 37:47
  know, secured in a state, you know, that that could be alive,
• 37:51
  but it should die within three hours.
• 37:54
  So he was anxious to know where they had gotten the tissue from.
• 37:59
  And so Cassian Gomez said, well, you know, we got it, you know,
• 38:06
  from a Eucharistic host. Now Zugabee by pure chance just
• 38:10
  happened to be a Catholic. And so he knew what a
• 38:14
  consecrated Eucharistic host was.
• 38:17
  And I think he, he might have been a practicing Catholic.
• 38:19
  Cassian Gomez had been a Catholic.
• 38:22
  He knew what a host was, but certainly in a practice for
• 38:25
  many, many years. But anyway, Zugabee, you know,
• 38:29
  just literally his jaw dropped. He just went and, you know,
• 38:33
  after a second of this, he he says, well, well, that's just
• 38:37
  naturalistically impossible. Whether you like it or not, your
• 38:41
  current healthcare dollars are likely supporting procedures
• 38:45
  that you and I don't agree with, from abortion to gender
• 38:48
  reassignments and more. But with our partner Presidio
• 38:51
  Healthcare, you can get the country's first pro-life
• 38:54
  Christian healthcare network. This is not crowd sharing, but
• 38:58
  real comprehensive health insurance right now.
• 39:01
  If you're in Texas, visit presidiocare.com/lila to get
• 39:05
  your quote today and stay tuned as Presidio is looking to expand
• 39:10
  to Florida, Indiana, Georgia, North Carolina, Ohio and more
• 39:14
  states help bring life affirming healthcare to the rest of the
• 39:17
  country. Visit presidiocare.com/lila to
• 39:21
  get started today. That's Presidio. care.com/lila.
• 39:26
  If you've been listening to this show for a while, you know that
• 39:29
  Seven Weeks Coffee isn't just a sponsor, it's the coffee brand
• 39:32
  that we love at my house. And it's not just great taste,
• 39:35
  it's also the fact that Seven Weeks Coffee donates 10% of
• 39:39
  every sale to pregnancy resource centers, and they've donated
• 39:42
  over $1.5 million to date. You can get whole beans, ground
• 39:46
  coffee pods, or decaf options, and every bean is organically
• 39:50
  farmed, mold free, pestified, free, low acid and shade grown.
• 39:54
  So if you want to have delicious coffee at your doorstep every
• 39:56
  month, head over to seven Weeks coffee.com and save 15% forever
• 40:01
  when you subscribe. Pair it with my code Lila for an
• 40:04
  extra 10% off your first order and a great gift.
• 40:07
  That's 25% off your first order with code Lila.
• 40:10
  Support moms, babies and enjoy delicious coffee with
• 40:13
  sevenweekscoffee.com. So were there any experts that
• 40:17
  looked at this sample and said that this is not human origin?
• 40:22
  This is, you know, mold or bacteria or something like this.
• 40:26
  And it was examined by three people in Buenos Aires.
• 40:30
  Frederick Zugaby then sent it on to labs.
• 40:34
  I don't remember all the scientists, but one in
• 40:37
  Australia, 1 in Europe. I believe also Eduardo Lenoli,
• 40:41
  because he had done the previous this, this all happening in
• 40:45
  1996. So Eduardo Lanoli had done his
• 40:48
  investigations 20 years earlier on the Lanciano host.
• 40:52
  So even he got into the ACT to to look for himself.
• 40:56
  Everybody who has looked at this just says this is bizarro.
• 41:01
  OK, let's do. Let's do the next ones.
• 41:03
  Let's. And thus there's more to share
• 41:05
  on. Just one more item from Frank
• 41:07
  Zubovi. Basically, the white blood cells
• 41:10
  are burrowed into the the ventricle wall in that upper
• 41:15
  left ventricle part of the tissue.
• 41:18
  Now why that is significant again is the wounded part.
• 41:21
  Why are the white blood cells going toward the ventricle wall?
• 41:26
  Why are they embedding themselves in the ventricle
• 41:28
  wall? Because there's a wound and an
• 41:31
  infection there. And why would that be?
• 41:34
  Because the heart is wounded, either tortured or in some other
• 41:41
  way, you know, right before you know, you have a heart attack or
• 41:45
  in the midst of a heart attack, you can have the same phenomenon
• 41:49
  of white blood cells, you know, embedding themselves in the
• 41:52
  ventricle wall to get at the infection.
• 41:55
  But the fact is that that's what happened.
• 41:59
  So again, you've got the wounded living heart that's being
• 42:04
  indicated. And Zuga B and all the other
• 42:07
  histopathologist basically said this is at best bizarre.
• 42:14
  I mean it worst bizarre, at best, it's looks like it's
• 42:17
  naturalistically inexplicable from any, you know, normal
• 42:21
  context, you know, obviously presupposing that there's no
• 42:26
  fraud and I wouldn't know how you could perpetrate the fraud
• 42:30
  and that by the way, neither did Zugaby.
• 42:33
  You know how you going to get those living white blood cells
• 42:36
  living and staying alive despite the fact that the tissue is
• 42:41
  embedded between glass and you have a chain of custody.
• 42:44
  It goes from Buenos Aires are all the way up to the the the
• 42:48
  labs at New York Pathology Institute.
• 42:50
  And also, if you try to commit fraud with something like that,
• 42:53
  I feel like the fraud could be easily detected and destroy the
• 42:56
  entire miracle and be counterproductive.
• 42:59
  Like, why would someone want to commit fraud to prove that this
• 43:02
  is real when they have to do the fraud to make it real?
• 43:05
  What's in it for them financially?
• 43:07
  Nothing like that. It doesn't, actually.
• 43:09
  There's no good motive. Yeah, and also, Zukabe just
• 43:12
  didn't think that a fraud could be perpetrated any more than
• 43:15
  Casino Gomez did. Talk us through what is
• 43:18
  miraculous in the context of these next two Eucharistic
• 43:22
  contemporary miracles. Yeah.
• 43:24
  So for Buenos Aires, as we saw, it's the heart tissue, it's the
• 43:29
  living heart tissue, it's growing out of the substance of
• 43:32
  the consecrated host. There hasn't been significant
• 43:35
  autolysis or decomposition the tissue and there hasn't been
• 43:38
  significant amount of dissolving.
• 43:40
  And it's AB blood type. And it's AB blood type.
• 43:42
  So let's go to the second thing. This is takes La Mexico in 2006.
• 43:49
  Now in that case, you know a sister who was you know, it
• 43:54
  brought host to the homebound basically was taking a multiple
• 43:59
  hosts to put into a pics to take it to sick people to homebound
• 44:03
  people after the mass would be over.
• 44:07
  So she looks down into her pics and.
• 44:10
  She's like the little jar. It's a it's a little holder
• 44:13
  canister that you put the the host into to take to the sick.
• 44:18
  So anyway, she's looking down into this, you know, canister
• 44:24
  this pics and she sees, you know, what appears to be like
• 44:29
  blood trickling over the surface of one of the hosts.
• 44:33
  So she's stupefied. So she goes right over to the
• 44:37
  priest who is handing out communion and pounds literally,
• 44:41
  he's poking him on the shoulder going, you know, And so the
• 44:46
  priest turns around, probably thinking this better be good,
• 44:50
  you know, So he he looks down and he could see this blood, you
• 44:53
  know, trickling over the surface of the host.
• 44:56
  So he tells her, you know, just put this, you know, into the
• 44:59
  Tabernacle. Well, you know, when the Mass is
• 45:02
  over, we'll talk about it. So of course, they put the host
• 45:05
  into the Tabernacle. Thank God they did not put this
• 45:10
  one in water. So back to the sister.
• 45:13
  So she basically puts the host in the Tabernacle and of course
• 45:18
  the priest is very interested in it.
• 45:21
  And you can just sort of see that there is blood sort of
• 45:24
  trickling along the surface of the host.
• 45:27
  So you can see in the, you know, in the host itself, there is a
• 45:31
  spongy area. So in that spongy area, you
• 45:36
  know, you know, nobody, you know, it's, it looks like
• 45:39
  there's liquid emerging from this wet spongy area.
• 45:44
  And you can sort of see that, you know, the spongy area looks
• 45:49
  different, let's just say from the rest of the surface of the
• 45:53
  host that the blood is trickling on.
• 45:56
  So, you know, he says right away, OK, you know, this is
• 46:00
  really unusual. So he tells, I think the the
• 46:03
  Bishop there was named Castro. He tells him, you know, you
• 46:09
  know, we've, we've got this host.
• 46:11
  I'm just going to keep it in the Tabernacle here.
• 46:14
  It does appear that there is some blood that's trickling
• 46:18
  along the surface of the host. Well, this, this Bishop Castro,
• 46:23
  he, he had heard of Castanon Gomez, that he had done this
• 46:27
  investigation 10 years earlier in 1996 of the Buenos Aires
• 46:32
  host. So he basically says we'll call
• 46:35
  him over. He's got some experience.
• 46:38
  Oh, by the way, Castanon Gomez, after the Buenos Aires host
• 46:43
  became, he not only restored his Catholicism and came back to the
• 46:48
  Church, you know, a reversion as it were, he basically became an
• 46:53
  advocate for the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist.
• 46:56
  So he wasn't a practicing Catholic beforehand had.
• 46:59
  Even raised agnostic, he was probably raised Catholic, but.
• 47:02
  Not practicing. Yeah, he had lost his faith a
• 47:04
  long time ago. Agnostic verging on atheists.
• 47:08
  But after seeing this miracle and he converted, he said I'm
• 47:11
  all in now. That's.
• 47:12
  Zukabe too, you know, he was a practicing Catholic though, at
• 47:18
  least I know sometime practicing Catholic for sure.
• 47:21
  But he just said, oh man, this is unbelievable, this
• 47:24
  naturalistically inexplicable. OK, so anyway, back to Cassian
• 47:29
  Gomez gets called in. So this time he's going to be
• 47:34
  super sure. So he gets to laboratories to,
• 47:41
  to do a genetic investigation, one in Bolivia, I'm sorry, one
• 47:44
  in Mexico and one in the United States.
• 47:47
  He then gets 13 other labs. And by the way, there I, I don't
• 47:51
  have very good Spanish, but you can get Google Translate to do
• 47:56
  the translation of this book of this book.
• 47:59
  But in this book called, I'm not going to try it.
• 48:03
  It's in in English, the title would be called The Eucharistic
• 48:07
  Miracle of Chilpenzingo Chilapa Chill Pensingo.
• 48:11
  Is that the district, that region where Tixla, Mexico is
• 48:15
  located? So he's got this book.
• 48:18
  But what's important about Cassian Gomez is that he got all
• 48:23
  the lab reports. These are the signed lab reports
• 48:27
  and he puts them into 19 appendices at the end of the
• 48:31
  book. So if you want to geek out on
• 48:34
  this and you want to see the basically the sign lab reports,
• 48:41
  you can get them in the appendices of that book.
• 48:45
  It's available, you know, on Amazon.
• 48:48
  You might have to go to Amazon Spanish, you know.
• 48:51
  But how when you say lab reports, can you just explain
• 48:54
  for people what that when you're dealing with a trickle, it's a
• 48:57
  tiny bit of blood in Tixla, right?
• 48:59
  Yes. But you, you're testing a very
• 49:01
  small sample yes. And how is he running labs on
• 49:04
  this tiny sample You. Got so you he, By the way, just
• 49:08
  to prevent any kind of conspiracy theories, he got labs
• 49:12
  in Bolivia, Mexico and the United States to do various
• 49:16
  kinds of testing. So some of them send.
• 49:19
  Samples to those different labs from this one Little how was
• 49:23
  there enough blood in the Texel Miracle?
• 49:25
  Oh, yes, because you don't need very much, you know, to, you
• 49:29
  know, you, you can preserve these things really well with
• 49:33
  various techniques and, and send them over, you know, so you can,
• 49:37
  you know, actually you can do a histopathological analysis,
• 49:41
  right, Which would be there. You're looking both at the blood
• 49:45
  and you're looking at the tissue and you're looking for the
• 49:48
  various indications. You can have microscopy, right?
• 49:52
  That's microscopic analysis. You can use very powerful light
• 49:56
  microscopes. In the case of Poland, you can
• 49:59
  use an electron. They did use an electron
• 50:02
  microscope, which is much more powerful than any powerful light
• 50:07
  microscope. And you can of course then begin
• 50:09
  to examine all the constituents of the blood and the spongy part
• 50:14
  of the host, which is the tissue part of the host.
• 50:17
  So some of sorry, some of the tissue in Texa, it wasn't just
• 50:20
  blood, some of the host became flesh as well.
• 50:22
  Yeah, well the the spongy part is kind of fleshy.
• 50:26
  Yeah. So that's and we'll see in a
• 50:28
  moment that too very probably is heart tissue because what the
• 50:33
  histopathologist discovered is there were the you can't in the
• 50:39
  spongy area that host, you can't see the morphological
• 50:42
  indication. You can't see the typical
• 50:45
  striations of cardiac tissue in that spongy part of the host.
• 50:49
  However, what you can detect are the elongated cells that belong
• 50:54
  properly to the heart and you can see contraction nodes that
• 50:59
  are also present, which would again belong to the heart tissue
• 51:04
  specifically. So you can see various
• 51:06
  indications, but they're more microscopic indications,
• 51:10
  cellular indications of of heart tissue.
• 51:16
  So it's pretty sure that the spongy area, they're pretty sure
• 51:20
  that it is heart tissue. Also, of course, as we shall see
• 51:23
  in the Tixla, in the case of Tixla in the the lab reports
• 51:28
  that came back on the blood, they not only saw literally
• 51:32
  under the microscope in two different labs in two different
• 51:36
  countries, they could see blood cells, right?
• 51:40
  They could see red blood cells. First of all, these are, you
• 51:44
  know, cells that would absolutely die once the tissue
• 51:49
  is disconnected from an embodied circulatory system.
• 51:53
  So that's the first thing. But they're alive under the
• 51:55
  microscope. But they are definitely alive
• 51:58
  under the microscope, which means that the tissue from which
• 52:01
  the blood is emitting has to be alive.
• 52:05
  It's the blood is living blood and the tissue is living tissue
• 52:09
  and obviously it's an indication since it's blood of heart
• 52:13
  tissue. So, but even just to wrap my
• 52:16
  mind around this, in the samples, are they taking the
• 52:19
  blood out of the tissue or it's a sample of both the tissue and
• 52:21
  the blood? No, it's the both the tissue and
• 52:23
  the blood. And they're and in separate
• 52:24
  countries and separate laboratories, they're doing
• 52:26
  these taste tests. Were the test blind tests?
• 52:29
  They knew that they were testing for a Eucharistic miracle.
• 52:32
  Possibly, I do not know, but I would say that Kasnian Gomez
• 52:38
  wouldn't have disclosed. So then when they're looking at
• 52:41
  it, they're saying, wow, this is alive.
• 52:43
  We don't know how it's alive. That is so unusual.
• 52:46
  It's not, it's. Not Oh yeah, there's no.
• 52:48
  Explanation and it's AB blood type and it's tissue from the
• 52:51
  heart. That is correct.
• 52:53
  But they weren't able to ascertain any DNA human.
• 52:56
  DNA, that is correct too. So, and, and like I said, in
• 52:59
  this case, you not only have living red blood cells, you have
• 53:02
  living what leukocytes, right? Macrophages that are same family
• 53:07
  as white blood cells, right? So essentially these macrophages
• 53:12
  you can see under the microscope, you can actually see
• 53:15
  them engulfing these lipids, these fat cells in the blood,
• 53:20
  they are active. And by the way, I would suppose
• 53:23
  that many of the scientists are looking at this.
• 53:27
  We're not in any way religiously disposed toward believing.
• 53:32
  They probably didn't even know where the sample was from.
• 53:35
  What did they conclude? They conclude that it was living
• 53:38
  blood. You just can't have living red
• 53:42
  blood cells and living white blood cells and a variety of
• 53:45
  other indications of living blood emerging from the tissue.
• 53:50
  Also a series of tests were done to see whether the pressure
• 53:56
  right. So you know that there's got to
• 53:58
  be an upward pressure right, of the blood coming which is being
• 54:03
  emitted from the tissue. It's got to be able to make it
• 54:06
  over the top of the tissue onto the surface of the blood.
• 54:11
  And the blood is collecting right?
• 54:13
  The the it's pulling and then going underneath the dried blood
• 54:19
  so you can see the layering. So, you know, the blood is
• 54:22
  still, by the way, five years later until.
• 54:25
  Bleeding, you're saying? It's still bleeding Flash. 20 is
• 54:28
  still bleeding. From.
• 54:30
  This euphoric miracle in Mexico. And when they did testing?
• 54:33
  Yes, when they did testing 2011 that you could see that the
• 54:38
  blood was still emitting from it was still coming out of that
• 54:43
  host five years later because this miracle started in 2006.
• 54:47
  If I were to go right now to Tixla, Mexico.
• 54:51
  Could you tell whether? It's 10 years later.
• 54:52
  What You can go to Tixla, Mexico and you can see the host, you
• 54:58
  know, now 20 years later, you can see this, you know 15 years
• 55:04
  after the the last tests were done and you can see you know
• 55:09
  this now whether you can see that the blood is still flowing,
• 55:13
  I'm not sure they. Maybe don't let people that
• 55:15
  close. I would.
• 55:16
  Yeah, I don't think they have done testing after 2011, but I
• 55:21
  know they want another test. You know, now the Bishop of, you
• 55:27
  know, a Castro of, of Chilpenzingo Chilapa, he did
• 55:31
  certify that he, he basically, you know, the 24 scientists and
• 55:38
  Cassian Gomez was in charge of it, etcetera, basically said, as
• 55:42
  far as we're concerned, this is naturalistically inexplicable.
• 55:45
  You can look at the lab reports that are there at the back of
• 55:48
  the book. You just get the Spanish.
• 55:52
  Just get Google Translate to do it for you.
• 55:55
  It's so amazing because you would think that if people knew
• 55:57
  about this, people from all over the world would want to go see.
• 56:00
  Oh yeah? Well, this at that point, this
• 56:03
  guy, Franco Serafini, who is a cardiologist in Rome, says, hey,
• 56:08
  this is really interesting stuff.
• 56:11
  So he gets in the act and he also was able to examine he.
• 56:16
  Flies out to Tixla. Well, I don't know if he flew to
• 56:19
  Tixla, but he surely got all the lab reports and he surely did
• 56:22
  talk to all the scientists who were involved because he wrote a
• 56:26
  book about all three miracles. He wrote a book about Buenos
• 56:31
  Aires, Tixla and Sekolka. It's called A Cardiologist
• 56:35
  Examines Jesus and Sophia Press actually just translated that
• 56:42
  and published it maybe five years ago or something.
• 56:46
  But the guy's name is Serafini. Like, like Serafim SERAFINI,
• 56:54
  Franco Serafini. And you know, he's can your,
• 56:57
  your reputation's on the line, I mean, and by the way, that's a
• 57:01
  good book because he's got a gazillion footnotes that explain
• 57:07
  all these terms. So he's using a lot of technical
• 57:11
  terms in his explanation, but every one of those footnotes
• 57:15
  will tell you what those terms mean.
• 57:18
  And then he has a very nice summary at the end that tells
• 57:22
  you his conclusions. And that's all three.
• 57:26
  And he throw puts into the mix the Shroud of Turin.
• 57:31
  I do want to ask you about the Shroud of Turin.
• 57:33
  Anything more on Tixla? No, I would just say the
• 57:36
  pressure tests are significant because if you'd taken like,
• 57:40
  let's suppose you wanted to perpetrate a fraud, so you want
• 57:43
  to make this blood look fresh and you're going to inject some
• 57:47
  blood into the spongy area of the host, which is probably
• 57:52
  cardiac tissue to make it look like it's living.
• 57:55
  Well. After a few minutes, that blood
• 57:59
  is going to reach that you injected in there will reach
• 58:02
  equilibrium. And if it reaches equilibrium,
• 58:05
  then it's not going to have a force pushing outward.
• 58:08
  And what casting young Gomez and the scientists use in the lab,
• 58:12
  in his laboratory test those, what they determined was there
• 58:17
  is an outward pressure that's still being exerted.
• 58:21
  And you can see it because there's layering, right?
• 58:23
  The uppermost surface is the dried, dried blood, less dry
• 58:28
  next layer. Next, a little less dry the next
• 58:30
  layer until you've got the liquid layer still flowing
• 58:33
  underneath because there's a little channel as being created
• 58:36
  like right underneath it where the blood, the liquid more
• 58:40
  liquidy blood, the newer blood is still.
• 58:43
  So what it sounds like you're saying is you're saying it's
• 58:45
  behaving this flesh and blood from this Eucharistic miracle
• 58:49
  from Tixla is behaving as if it's still attached to Jesus
• 58:52
  being crucified on the cross, even though there's no
• 58:55
  explanation for how this separate piece of human flesh
• 58:58
  would behave this way. That's right.
• 59:00
  How else could it exude blood and how else could it exude
• 59:04
  pressure and how could you have the layering of coagulation on
• 59:09
  the blood that's across the surface of the host?
• 59:12
  It's just simply not explicable. It's incredible.
• 59:17
  Yeah. And I would say again, these
• 59:19
  people who are looking at this are going, you know, this is
• 59:23
  crazy. Last thing about the host,
• 59:25
  again, you know, remember the white blood cells indicating
• 59:29
  it's wounded tissue. And the second thing to remember
• 59:33
  is that they tried PCR twice, 2 polymers chain reaction test to
• 59:40
  amplify DNA profile could not do it under 2.
• 59:44
  And by the way, there's just no question, right?
• 59:46
  This is fresh blood. So you can't say, oh, well, this
• 59:50
  is like the shroud of Turin can't do it because the blood
• 59:53
  samples too old. That makes sense in the case of
• 59:57
  the shroud, but this is literally fresh blood that's
• 1:00:00
  still flowing underneath, you know, at the time of the
• 1:00:02
  testing, right? And so you and by the way, you
• 1:00:06
  couldn't say it wasn't a big enough.
• 1:00:08
  Sample because they could take a lot of the blood, like 10 times
• 1:00:14
  the amount that would be needed to have a significant sample.
• 1:00:18
  Could not amplify a profile. You can see in the blood the
• 1:00:21
  remnants of DNA you know structures, but you cannot see
• 1:00:27
  or cannot amplify a DNA profile. Is that in and of itself
• 1:00:31
  inexplicable that you are not able to ascertain DNA from a
• 1:00:35
  living blood sample? I mean, if it really is blood,
• 1:00:38
  which it it has to be, right? You've got human hemoglobin,
• 1:00:41
  human immunoglobulins, you you've got a human whole red
• 1:00:46
  blood, you have AB blood type which is differentiable from any
• 1:00:50
  animal blood type, right? That there is right, You can see
• 1:00:54
  this. No animal has AB blood.
• 1:00:55
  Blood type yeah or no non human animal.
• 1:00:58
  Yeah, exactly. So with both Buenos Aires and
• 1:01:00
  Tixla, you have AB blood type, you have human heart tissue,
• 1:01:06
  it's somehow inexplicably still alive and you can't tell the
• 1:01:10
  DNA. That's right.
• 1:01:12
  And the heart tissue seems to be under great distress, at least
• 1:01:14
  in the case of Buenos Aires. And and Tixla.
• 1:01:18
  So OK, let's go to Sekolka. Sekolka, this is again a host
• 1:01:25
  was dropped in a church in, in, in so-called Poland.
• 1:01:32
  Again the priest picks up the the host has the Saxon put it
• 1:01:37
  into a glass of water and you can see from the pictures you
• 1:01:42
  can see that you know, I'm going to skip to the chase here.
• 1:01:45
  So they have it in the water for 40 days.
• 1:01:49
  You can see that a Crescent is growing right out of the host.
• 1:01:54
  So it's a Red Crescent that's kind of growing out of the host.
• 1:01:58
  You can see that just from the pictures themselves that are
• 1:02:01
  still there. By the way, you, you can see the
• 1:02:04
  host of Sekolka. You can go to Sekolka Poll and
• 1:02:06
  it's in their monstrance. That's there for people to see.
• 1:02:10
  Not 24/7, but maybe 8 hours, 9 hours a day, you know, for the
• 1:02:15
  faithful to see. But you can see this Red
• 1:02:18
  Crescent that's growing out of it.
• 1:02:20
  And of course, after 40 days in water, again, the whole should
• 1:02:25
  be totally dissolved. There should be significant
• 1:02:28
  atollis decomposition of the tissue.
• 1:02:32
  And while they didn't know his tissue at the time, but as
• 1:02:35
  you'll see, they certainly certified that momentarily.
• 1:02:38
  So, you know, if you're 41 days, you take it out and they say,
• 1:02:41
  OK, put it on a corporal, which they did.
• 1:02:44
  That's a, you know, a cloth that you spread on the altar, Put it
• 1:02:47
  on a corporal in the Tabernacle, take it out of the water and
• 1:02:53
  let's just leave it there for, you know, a couple of three
• 1:02:57
  years. Let's just see what happens, you
• 1:03:00
  know, with the tissue just there.
• 1:03:02
  Well, the tissue and the host, they don't disappear.
• 1:03:06
  They stay right there. And so eventually, you know,
• 1:03:09
  pictures are taken of it. And so the Bishop says, OK, go
• 1:03:14
  to the University Medical school.
• 1:03:16
  By Alstack. By Alstock and have two
• 1:03:21
  different investigators look at this thing with the the best you
• 1:03:26
  know histopathological and microscopic analysis that we can
• 1:03:30
  get so they brought it over to university of medical school by
• 1:03:37
  bile stack they. Sorry, quick question.
• 1:03:38
  So they transported the whole thing or they took a same thing
• 1:03:41
  and by this time was the host. Was the bread of the host fully
• 1:03:47
  turned into potential blood and flesh or.
• 1:03:50
  No, you can actually see the host part and you can see the
• 1:03:54
  tissue part and that's coming out because you can actually the
• 1:04:00
  connection is really going to be important, which I'll talk about
• 1:04:03
  in a minute. But yeah, you can see both and
• 1:04:05
  it's really significant that you can see both.
• 1:04:08
  Fact you can see the interior of both, which puts it beyond
• 1:04:13
  fraud. So essentially it goes to this
• 1:04:15
  doctor Elisabetta Lutkovska, and she is 1 investigator.
• 1:04:21
  The other investigator, Stanislaus Zolkovsky, this guy
• 1:04:26
  has enough publications to kill a horse.
• 1:04:29
  He is a top guy, a top researcher, and he's no
• 1:04:35
  bloviator. You know, this guy is basically
• 1:04:40
  a first rate scientist. Lokoska is a a very good
• 1:04:46
  scientist. You know, research wise, Zukoski
• 1:04:50
  is unchallengeable. And this becomes important
• 1:04:54
  because they're, you know, a Communist Party official, you
• 1:04:58
  know, a, a quote, UN quote, scientist of the Communist Party
• 1:05:02
  says this is nothing more than a red mold, you know, and he makes
• 1:05:06
  these big accusations without ever having seen that the host
• 1:05:12
  examined it in any way. He makes this big accusation in
• 1:05:16
  the papers about this host of Sokolka.
• 1:05:22
  Well, anyway, the Sokovsky who has a publishing record that's
• 1:05:26
  10 times better than this other guy, blasts him, you know, and
• 1:05:32
  literally says, you know, this is some kind of scientist.
• 1:05:36
  He hasn't made a single investigation of anything here.
• 1:05:39
  His publishing record is not that great.
• 1:05:42
  And he's over here telling us, you know, that our tests are are
• 1:05:47
  totally insignificant without having done a single test
• 1:05:50
  himself and has made-up an incredible excuse, which by the
• 1:05:54
  way, from any physiological point of view is an absurd,
• 1:05:59
  bizarre explanation which is not an explanation at all.
• 1:06:03
  It would have been discounted by any credible scientist anyway.
• 1:06:06
  So you're already addressing. I was going to ask you about
• 1:06:09
  this because there have been critics who have said, oh, it
• 1:06:12
  could be mold. Yeah, red mold.
• 1:06:14
  Yeah, yeah. That's it.
• 1:06:15
  Could be mold and that's what this might be, or an.
• 1:06:17
  Algae. Or an algae.
• 1:06:19
  And you're saying already to refute that those that the, the,
• 1:06:23
  the, the the experts who have said that have not actually done
• 1:06:25
  their own examination. Yeah, they're depositing their
• 1:06:27
  own theory without even examining the tissue and the
• 1:06:30
  host. And not without seemingly
• 1:06:33
  reading the reports of Zelkovsky and Lekovska.
• 1:06:36
  So. So what did Zelkovsky and
• 1:06:38
  Levkovska? Did I say that right?
• 1:06:40
  What did they discover from this host from Poland?
• 1:06:45
  4 things are important. Of course, you know, you can see
• 1:06:48
  the the tissue which is protruding.
• 1:06:51
  But they wanted, of course, they saw the the things that we're
• 1:06:54
  also seeing at Tixlin, Buenos Aires, but they got several
• 1:06:59
  other indications that this is living tissue as well as
• 1:07:03
  several. They were able to do electron
• 1:07:05
  microscopy. So when you say the fourth
• 1:07:08
  thing, they saw the things that you see in Tixla and you say
• 1:07:11
  Buenos Aires, you're talking about.
• 1:07:12
  You're talking about living heart tissue.
• 1:07:14
  Heart tissue. And you know, you can see the
• 1:07:17
  elongated cells. In other words, you can see
• 1:07:21
  cells that belong to heart tissue, specifically the
• 1:07:24
  elongated cells and the contraction, maybe blood type,
• 1:07:28
  the AB blood type, you see the you know the well segmenting and
• 1:07:35
  fragmenting is a different thing that was not a noticed in the
• 1:07:40
  Tixlin and. But that's how that the hearts,
• 1:07:43
  like you said, in extreme distress right before death.
• 1:07:46
  Right before death as. You described earlier, but in
• 1:07:48
  this case. It also indicates that it's
• 1:07:49
  living tissue. Which also, but the indications
• 1:07:52
  to your point is that not only does it have these similarities
• 1:07:55
  to the other miracles, but it actually seems to be living.
• 1:07:59
  And there's no explanation for how this flesh that's coming out
• 1:08:03
  of a host and somehow bound up in this host, separate from any
• 1:08:06
  actual living Organism in this world that we can see would be
• 1:08:11
  behaving as if it's living. Yeah.
• 1:08:12
  And the other thing that's very significant too is when they did
• 1:08:16
  the electron microscopy, they could see that the two vastly
• 1:08:21
  different substances, right? The crushed bread molecule
• 1:08:25
  substance and the living heart tissue substance, that they came
• 1:08:30
  together and were entangled and intertwined on the level of the
• 1:08:35
  thin filaments of the myofibrils.
• 1:08:37
  Now just imagine a myofibril like, you know, something that's
• 1:08:42
  1000 times more refined than your hair, right?
• 1:08:46
  One of your hairs. So you look at that and you go,
• 1:08:49
  wow. So this is like you're dealing
• 1:08:53
  with a connection of these two different hosts that are on the
• 1:08:56
  level of a few microns, a few cell lengths, you know, of, of,
• 1:09:02
  of a separation and entanglement.
• 1:09:04
  I mean, this is like super, super, super refined intertwined
• 1:09:10
  entanglement on the microscopic level that, as you know,
• 1:09:14
  Lukowska and Swarovski both said there's not any single
• 1:09:19
  technology that we have, not from NASA, not from anywhere
• 1:09:26
  that can produce this kind of intertwining and refined
• 1:09:31
  entanglement of these two tissues on the level of a few
• 1:09:35
  microns, on the level of the thin filaments of the myofiber.
• 1:09:38
  So it's not found anywhere else in the natural world.
• 1:09:41
  You you can possible and you can't.
• 1:09:43
  It's now found in the natural world world and you can't
• 1:09:46
  produce it Biotechnology. So just for my lower IQ mine no
• 1:09:52
  no. No, you got a high IQ.
• 1:09:54
  Trust me. Alright, I'll take it.
• 1:09:57
  How much do I owe you for that one?
• 1:09:59
  So, but you're saying that the the the potential, the species
• 1:10:03
  of the bread is intertwined miraculously with this human
• 1:10:09
  flesh? Yes, that's correct.
• 1:10:10
  And it's inexplicable, it is not reproducible, and it's not found
• 1:10:14
  anywhere in nature. That's right and.
• 1:10:16
  This is conclusively the case based on the analysis of
• 1:10:20
  multiple scientists, or just one.
• 1:10:22
  No, the 2, two different kinds. Olkowski both did it.
• 1:10:26
  Of course this has the results have been shared with other
• 1:10:29
  scientists. So incredible, as I said, like
• 1:10:32
  Serafini and his group have also, you know, explored this as
• 1:10:36
  well. And so, you know, again, it's
• 1:10:39
  it's there. And so again, you know, you've
• 1:10:44
  got indications that it's living tissue, non across tissue
• 1:10:47
  because of the fragmenting and the segmenting that would have
• 1:10:50
  turned to mush had they not, you know, had the tissue not been
• 1:10:53
  alive. So when you put it all together,
• 1:10:56
  you know it's again indicating some similar ways, some
• 1:11:00
  different ways from Tixlan Sekolka, the same thing.
• 1:11:04
  But no. No, no amplifiable DNA profile.
• 1:11:09
  So we've got this question that emerges, you know, if we can't,
• 1:11:15
  I think that a Chicoka 1, I think it's beyond fraud.
• 1:11:19
  I just don't see how anybody could have produced this by
• 1:11:22
  either a natural or artificial, you know, human produced means
• 1:11:26
  so, but getting back to the absence of DNA profile, you
• 1:11:30
  know, it almost seems like, you know, God is keeping it hidden.
• 1:11:37
  Now, some people have theorized that the reason for this is
• 1:11:41
  that, you know, Jesus didn't have a human father, but that
• 1:11:45
  that's not right to me because I mean, Jesus didn't have a human
• 1:11:51
  father, but God. If God can become Incarnate in
• 1:11:55
  the flesh, then God can definitely produce a male DNA,
• 1:12:00
  the male part of the DNA profile to put together with Mary's DNA.
• 1:12:05
  So I have no problem there. So.
• 1:12:08
  So no Eucharistic miracle, nothing from the Shroud of
• 1:12:11
  Turin, nothing has ever produced discernible human DNA, even
• 1:12:15
  though we know it's human flesh and blood, which is in itself
• 1:12:18
  extraordinary. And.
• 1:12:20
  You're saying some people say, well, Jesus somehow didn't have
• 1:12:23
  DNA because there's no Y chromosome from Mary, so somehow
• 1:12:28
  he just sustained himself as a man without DNA and it's.
• 1:12:32
  You're right about the Y chromosome, all right.
• 1:12:35
  That's the problem. Jesus couldn't be a man without
• 1:12:39
  AY chromosome in a natural way. Of course he could have been one
• 1:12:42
  in a supernatural way, but I think God would have just
• 1:12:46
  produced the male configuration with the Y chromosome.
• 1:12:49
  So what's what's your theory for why we can't?
• 1:12:51
  I think God is keeping it hidden.
• 1:12:53
  I really do. And the reason is because of
• 1:12:56
  cloning. I mean, there are, there are
• 1:12:58
  enough idiots out there who I'm, you know, I shouldn't say
• 1:13:02
  idiots, but they're people who just don't seem to have any
• 1:13:08
  internal constraints. And because of that, they, I
• 1:13:13
  just know somebody will try, if they got a full amplifiable DNA
• 1:13:18
  profile and somebody's going to try, Yeah, somebody eventually
• 1:13:23
  will try to do cloning. I, I, I just think this is, and
• 1:13:27
  I think God just basically said no cloning, you know, I mean,
• 1:13:31
  basically he keeps it hidden. And I don't think you will ever
• 1:13:36
  be able. I, I'm sure there will be other
• 1:13:39
  Eucharistic miracles that undergo the same scientific
• 1:13:42
  scrutiny and investigation. And I'm sure as such that, you
• 1:13:49
  know, you know, they're, they're not going to be able to find
• 1:13:52
  another any DNA profile through PCR, through polymers gene
• 1:13:56
  reaction. So I'm pretty sure that for me,
• 1:14:01
  you know, I just, I have to believe that the cloning issue
• 1:14:05
  is the issue. And I don't think God was going
• 1:14:10
  to allow this to happen on in any way, shape or form.
• 1:14:15
  I That's a fascinating theory. It makes sense because we take
• 1:14:20
  these reproductive technologies and try to become God and
• 1:14:24
  seriously abuse human dignity. We're doing that with IVF
• 1:14:27
  surrogacy, you know, potential to do with cloning, creating
• 1:14:30
  animal, you know, mixing animal DNA with human all it's.
• 1:14:34
  Been done in China is just it's crazy unconscionable.
• 1:14:38
  You listen to this episode of folks listen to it and they hear
• 1:14:40
  you. They're like, wow, this, this
• 1:14:41
  seems extremely legit. Like, I can't contest what
• 1:14:44
  Father Spitzer and all these experts are saying, but why?
• 1:14:48
  I think that's my question. What is the Lord doing here?
• 1:14:52
  And he would show up randomly and seemingly to humanize Buenos
• 1:14:55
  Aires, in Mexico, in Poland, in Lanciano, Italy, eight in eight
• 1:15:02
  in eight hundreds, and say, I'm going to now suddenly allow my
• 1:15:07
  flesh and blood to become part of this host that's in the
• 1:15:11
  species of bread. Well, I think one of the big
• 1:15:15
  reasons is we live in a a secular science oriented
• 1:15:20
  generation, you know, in the 21st century and in the late
• 1:15:24
  20th century that you know, really does think that truth can
• 1:15:28
  be legitimately discovered through science, which I believe
• 1:15:32
  truth can be legitimately discovered through science.
• 1:15:35
  And I think the Lord is praise basically performing an irony of
• 1:15:41
  all ironies. It will now be science that will
• 1:15:44
  begin to reveal the supernatural by you know, obviously you can't
• 1:15:49
  have a scientific test for a miracle because science tests
• 1:15:53
  natural objects, but you can have an abductive scientific
• 1:15:57
  argument for a miracle. In other words, you can say all
• 1:16:01
  known naturalistically, scientifically, you know,
• 1:16:06
  scientific explanations are essentially excluded from this
• 1:16:12
  particular host. So I mean, you can't explain
• 1:16:17
  everything. You know, you can't explain the
• 1:16:20
  the absence of DNA. So, you know, maybe somebody
• 1:16:23
  will say, well, because of this, I'm just not sure and I'm never
• 1:16:25
  going to be sure. And if we never find DNA, then
• 1:16:28
  I'll never be sure. What the Lord is doing is giving
• 1:16:31
  us a sign, you know, don't block me out, you know, if I you know,
• 1:16:37
  this is what my son intended. This is the the intention was to
• 1:16:42
  give his very body, blood, soul and divinity.
• 1:16:44
  The best way of indicating that is living wounded heart tissue
• 1:16:50
  growing inexplicably out of a consecrated host on the level of
• 1:16:56
  the thin filaments of the myofibrils, which is
• 1:16:59
  unduplicatable naturalistically or even by human means.
• 1:17:04
  And I'm going to give you that sign so that science itself,
• 1:17:09
  which does have, you know, access ease into the into nature
• 1:17:14
  can at least begin to unveil. I'm not going to take away
• 1:17:18
  faith. You're always going to need
• 1:17:20
  faith, you know, to get there. You never going to be able to
• 1:17:22
  prove this beyond the shadow of a death.
• 1:17:25
  You're going to be able to think of like everything else, the
• 1:17:27
  Lord gives us an out. Well, that proof, maybe we'll
• 1:17:32
  discover something someday that it's going to invalidate a proof
• 1:17:35
  for an uncaused reality. Well, to me, I look at that
• 1:17:39
  proof and I go, it seems really definitive to me, You know, I
• 1:17:43
  mean, after all, I mean, if you don't have at least one reality
• 1:17:47
  that exists through itself that's uncaused, then the
• 1:17:50
  totality of reality would be uncaused realities.
• 1:17:55
  And if the totality of reality is is is caused realities?
• 1:17:59
  Excuse me then. The totality of reality is a
• 1:18:01
  caused reality, which can't have a cause outside of itself,
• 1:18:06
  because there's nothing outside of the totality of all reality.
• 1:18:09
  So you're going to have to have at least one uncaused reality in
• 1:18:13
  the totality of all reality. Otherwise the whole of reality
• 1:18:17
  is a caused reality without a cause of its reality.
• 1:18:22
  And that's a big. Fat 0.
• 1:18:24
  That's the religion of atheism right there.
• 1:18:26
  Yeah. I mean, if you really believe
• 1:18:28
  that that can happen, you know, like Thomas Acquaintance says,
• 1:18:31
  you know, all people see this to be, you know, something, you
• 1:18:35
  know, an uncaused reality, and you can actually prove that an
• 1:18:38
  uncaused reality has to be unsure.
• 1:18:40
  What you just thought I think could be you could turn into a
• 1:18:42
  rap Father Spitzer. We need to, we need to mix that
• 1:18:47
  Harris that that was good. I, I was really good.
• 1:18:49
  We could sing that. That was really good.
• 1:18:52
  OK, I'm going to run. I have a few more questions on
• 1:18:55
  Eucharistic miracles. I'm going to whip through these
• 1:18:57
  quickly. If you can just give me your
• 1:19:00
  This is the Father Spitzer elevator pitch on these
• 1:19:03
  questions. If these Eucharistic miracles
• 1:19:06
  are real, why isn't the world talking about them more?
• 1:19:09
  Number one, the cause, you know, the the church has not
• 1:19:13
  officially well, the dioceses have made official statements
• 1:19:17
  like in Tixla, Mexico. However, the Church, the
• 1:19:21
  official Church of Rome, has not come out and said this is a
• 1:19:25
  miracle for sure. Why not?
• 1:19:27
  Now you still want more testing in the case like I said in
• 1:19:30
  Chilpenzingo Chilapa in in in Tixla, Mexico.
• 1:19:33
  The Bishop did actually say, you know, the scientists seem to be
• 1:19:37
  consistent with one another. The all the people who've
• 1:19:40
  examined it think it's naturalistically inexplicable.
• 1:19:42
  I'm going with that. But then Rome said, walk it
• 1:19:45
  back. We still want to do our
• 1:19:47
  investigation. So I think we should wait.
• 1:19:49
  So there's not a single Rome has not confirmed a single
• 1:19:52
  Eucharistic. Miracle.
• 1:19:53
  I know these three, but I think they have hesitancy because they
• 1:19:57
  think our domain is not really science.
• 1:19:59
  However, they do do it in all the cases for canonization of
• 1:20:03
  miracles of Saints for example, and of course in at Lourdes.
• 1:20:07
  You've got the Lord's medical Commission, which is confirmed
• 1:20:10
  again and again. You know, you know, 70 times
• 1:20:13
  you've put their whole reputation on line.
• 1:20:15
  Just say this is simply scientifically a naturalistic.
• 1:20:17
  So the church hasn't said we will never officially confirm
• 1:20:21
  you because Mr. No, no, no, no. They've merely said we are not
• 1:20:25
  prepared to do that yet. We're waiting.
• 1:20:28
  And they're allowing all of these scientists to do all of
• 1:20:30
  their rigorous reviews and studies and everything else.
• 1:20:33
  So we might see in our lifetime, especially with, I mean, sweet
• 1:20:36
  Carlo, just St. Koutis.
• 1:20:38
  Now, that was his old gig. And he's in heaven.
• 1:20:40
  So he's probably like, you know, doing his prayers up in heaven
• 1:20:44
  for us being like, Mother Church.
• 1:20:45
  Make this official. Make this official.
• 1:20:47
  I'm going to guess if he's up there, you know he is up there.
• 1:20:49
  Oh, yeah, he's doing that. I think a lot of the bishops
• 1:20:52
  think, you know, time is the acid test for any, you know,
• 1:20:55
  naturalistic explanation coming along.
• 1:20:58
  And so I think a lot of people just want more time.
• 1:21:01
  And so I think that's one of the reasons, the second reason you
• 1:21:04
  already intimated, I think there are people who just go, this is
• 1:21:07
  crazy. I mean, flesh growing out of
• 1:21:09
  hosts. I mean, what's going to, but if
• 1:21:11
  you're not a Catholic, it kind of seems crazy.
• 1:21:14
  But if you're a Catholic, you go, you know, that could be
• 1:21:18
  really indicative of of the real presence.
• 1:21:21
  There's wounded living heart tissue going out of a host on
• 1:21:24
  the connected, on the level of the thin filaments of the
• 1:21:27
  myofibrils. I'm game for looking into that
• 1:21:30
  further. So you could get some people
• 1:21:32
  like I just was giving a talk the other day at a, at a big
• 1:21:35
  conference and you know, one of the people who are at the
• 1:21:39
  conference and brought their friends who are Protestants
• 1:21:42
  there. And they came up right
• 1:21:44
  afterwards and told the friends who brought them, Hey, you know,
• 1:21:49
  if this is all true, we're really thinking of becoming
• 1:21:51
  Catholics. So they made like a, you know, a
• 1:21:55
  turn around real quick. There's big consequences to
• 1:21:58
  believing that this may be true. Oh yeah, and I think right, you,
• 1:22:02
  you can't have a scientific test for soul body, I mean for the
• 1:22:06
  soul and the divine personhood of Jesus.
• 1:22:08
  But you can sure have a scientific test for the body and
• 1:22:11
  blood, the crucified and wounded, you know, body and
• 1:22:15
  blood, the Jesus on the cross, which is what we believe.
• 1:22:18
  The suffering Jesus is the one that's present in the Eucharist
• 1:22:22
  as well as the risen Jesus. Because all time collapses for
• 1:22:26
  God, right? All time is, you know, the
• 1:22:29
  eternal now for God. So to put his risen body, his
• 1:22:33
  mystical body, which is our union with one another, you
• 1:22:36
  know, in his risen body and even his divine personhood, that's
• 1:22:41
  part of it. You can only indicate it for
• 1:22:43
  scientific examination by the the body and the blood of the
• 1:22:49
  cross, which of course are wounded heart tissue, you know,
• 1:22:55
  cut and blood coming from a wounded heart tissue that that
• 1:22:59
  you can see under the microscope and has been seen under the
• 1:23:03
  electron microscope in the case of Eucharistic miracles.
• 1:23:06
  But I think God wants to do this to challenge our skepticism.
• 1:23:10
  And as as we keep getting more and more instances of these
• 1:23:15
  Eucharistic codes, which we will get, we're just going to get
• 1:23:18
  greater and greater preponderance of evidence.
• 1:23:20
  And I'll bet they'll all be AB blood type.
• 1:23:23
  So keep multiplying point O four times, point O four times, point
• 1:23:26
  O 4 until you get to .0000000000.
• 1:23:31
  You know, whatever it is, 1256 or something.
• 1:23:35
  Have there been any Eucharistic miracles that the Church has
• 1:23:38
  rejected and said No, we know definitively this is not a
• 1:23:43
  Eucharist. There are lots of them that are,
• 1:23:45
  let's say, treated with great deal of suspicion and the
• 1:23:48
  Church, you know, really doesn't, you know, say anything
• 1:23:52
  about them per SE. But we do have dioceses in the
• 1:23:57
  case of the three that I've talked about that really have
• 1:24:02
  either declared or intimated that these look pretty
• 1:24:06
  legitimate. OK, so pretend I'm Richard
• 1:24:08
  Dawkins for a minute. Yeah, you have.
• 1:24:11
  You talked to him, by the way. I never we, I was supposed to.
• 1:24:14
  Have you talked to Stephen Hawkings?
• 1:24:15
  Oh yeah, Yeah, it did. That's good.
• 1:24:17
  Well, pretend I'm Stephen Hawkings.
• 1:24:19
  He's a tougher, he's a tougher nut to crack.
• 1:24:20
  And you know how to deal with these guys.
• 1:24:22
  All right, I'm a famous atheist for a minute and you're sitting
• 1:24:27
  here with me and I'm telling you, come on, this is a this is
• 1:24:30
  a grand conspiracy. Your little AB blood types and
• 1:24:33
  Lanciano. There's no training command,
• 1:24:34
  like you said. So it's a big hoax.
• 1:24:36
  And these other ones you're going to talk about in a minute.
• 1:24:38
  It's all a big hoax. What would you say?
• 1:24:41
  Well, I would say, you know, first of all, before you make
• 1:24:44
  that judgement, you ought to look at the science.
• 1:24:48
  You are a scientist. Your job is to look at the
• 1:24:52
  evidence. Your job is not to question the
• 1:24:56
  reputation of good published medical doctors,
• 1:25:00
  histopathologists and, you know, genetic specialists, etcetera.
• 1:25:04
  Just let us suppose for a second that in all four of these cases,
• 1:25:10
  and if you include the blood type of the shroud, five of
• 1:25:12
  these cases, let's just suppose for a second that the scientists
• 1:25:17
  were not disreputable. That the chain of custody can be
• 1:25:21
  reasonably and responsibly guaranteed by both clerics in
• 1:25:26
  the church and medical doctors, you know, who are independent of
• 1:25:30
  the church, in universities of high reputation with good
• 1:25:35
  published results. Let's just say in the
• 1:25:38
  preponderance of cases, you know that you know these things are
• 1:25:42
  correct. Well, then why don't you look at
• 1:25:45
  the science? And if you come up with the same
• 1:25:48
  5 naturalistically inexplicable elements that I'm going to talk
• 1:25:54
  about today, if that's there, at least just do what Alexis
• 1:25:59
  Carroll did in the case of the Miracle of Marie Bailey.
• 1:26:04
  Just say I think there was a significant possibility based on
• 1:26:08
  the preponderance of evidence that a naturalistically
• 1:26:12
  inexplicable event has occurred that we commonly in the church
• 1:26:16
  call a miracle. Why not at least say there's a
• 1:26:19
  good possibility, or even just a possibility?
• 1:26:24
  Why would you turn this evidence down, which is good evidence out
• 1:26:30
  of hand? It's one thing to say, well, I'm
• 1:26:32
  not sure there's a possibility, but I'm not sure it's another
• 1:26:37
  thing to say there's fraud or this evidence has been tampered
• 1:26:42
  with or, you know, the indications that you see in this
• 1:26:47
  electron microscopy deceive the eyes.
• 1:26:51
  You know, well, why don't why is and why isn't electron
• 1:26:55
  microscopy deceiving the eyes and all the other cases that
• 1:26:59
  we're using, you know, but it's only in the case, you know, when
• 1:27:01
  a miracles up at hand. And you know, Alexis Carroll, he
• 1:27:05
  he, he paid the the price, right.
• 1:27:07
  I mean, when he said, you know, I, I was there at Lourdes, I saw
• 1:27:12
  that this woman had abdominal distensions that were like 10
• 1:27:18
  inches protruding from her normal place of her abdomen,
• 1:27:23
  filled with solid masses and with liquid masses with
• 1:27:28
  tubercular peritonitis and, and tissue damage that was utterly
• 1:27:34
  significant. And on the point of death I saw
• 1:27:37
  water poured on her abdomen, and I saw the distension before my
• 1:27:43
  very eyes disappearing as the water was poured on it.
• 1:27:48
  And I found no remnant, A, no remnant whatsoever of the solid
• 1:27:53
  or liquid masses, the tubercular, the signs, the very
• 1:27:58
  heavy indications of tubercular peritonitis disappeared.
• 1:28:02
  Her abdominal distension disappeared completely and she
• 1:28:08
  was able to breathe normally. You know, when you have all that
• 1:28:12
  distension, right, go interrupt the breathing.
• 1:28:14
  So he said, you know, I saw all these signs and I have to tell
• 1:28:17
  you that it happened very, very quickly.
• 1:28:20
  And I have no naturalistic explanation for this.
• 1:28:23
  He by the way, he's like, you know, doctor casting on Gomez,
• 1:28:29
  who was one of the big scientists who investigated the
• 1:28:33
  Tixel and Buenos Aires miracles. But you know, it started off as,
• 1:28:37
  you know, agnostic, you know, verging on atheist, right.
• 1:28:41
  And well, here's did he convert? Well, Alexis Carroll, he said
• 1:28:47
  right in front of the University Medical school at Lyon, he said,
• 1:28:51
  I I think this is possible miracle, possible
• 1:28:53
  naturalistically inexplicable. That's all he said.
• 1:28:56
  He didn't say it was just possibility.
• 1:28:59
  And of course, he was an agnostic, you know, verging on
• 1:29:03
  an atheist at the time. And they said, well, this
• 1:29:06
  medical school has no place for people like you.
• 1:29:10
  Well, immediately, because he was such a talented guy, by the
• 1:29:14
  way, he won a Nobel Prize later, But because Rockefeller
• 1:29:19
  University in New York just picked him up and said, you're
• 1:29:22
  going to kick out this young guy, he's got some of the best
• 1:29:25
  potential ever, we'll take him. So he goes over to Rockville
• 1:29:30
  University in New York and of course, invents the technique
• 1:29:34
  that we still use today for vascular surgery, for which he
• 1:29:38
  got the Nobel Prize. That meant that University of
• 1:29:40
  Leon has the sole distinction of having kicked out a future Nobel
• 1:29:44
  Prize winner from their medical faculty for one reason only for
• 1:29:49
  saying there's a possibility of a miracle.
• 1:29:51
  Father Spitzer, a lot of Protestants and non Catholics
• 1:29:55
  absolutely love our Lord. They have great faith, they want
• 1:30:00
  to follow God, they're studying the Bible, they're praying, they
• 1:30:02
  experience the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
• 1:30:05
  But when they consider communion, they say, no, this is
• 1:30:08
  not really the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus.
• 1:30:12
  This is a symbol and we can receive the symbol, but Jesus
• 1:30:15
  didn't mean for this to be his actual body, blood, soul and
• 1:30:18
  divinity. Well, I, I what I say is 3
• 1:30:22
  things. Number 1 he did intended for it
• 1:30:26
  to be his body, blood, soul and divinity.
• 1:30:29
  And here is why that the notion of time in ancient culture is
• 1:30:34
  very different from the notion of time, linear notion of time
• 1:30:39
  that we have it in our physical scientific world today.
• 1:30:44
  You know, Jesus believed that all time is in the mind of God,
• 1:30:47
  which Saint Augustine so beautifully described as an
• 1:30:51
  eternal now, now what? Basically, you know, you have to
• 1:30:55
  look at a double collapse of time in the Holy Eucharist.
• 1:30:58
  I think absolutely Jesus intended this and I've got some
• 1:31:01
  grammatical reasons for it too. I mean, just look, for example,
• 1:31:06
  at, you know, our our scriptural texts.
• 1:31:08
  If you see this is my body, which well, which is being given
• 1:31:15
  for you, that's basically it's a present passive participle D
• 1:31:19
  dominon. Now you look at that and think
• 1:31:21
  of that this is my body which is being present to being given to
• 1:31:27
  you present passive participle. Now you look at that and you go,
• 1:31:32
  wait a minute here, which is being given like now.
• 1:31:36
  Now why would you translate Jesus as Aramaic into a present
• 1:31:41
  passive participle unless the Aramaic was present passive
• 1:31:44
  participle? Secondly, look at the same words
• 1:31:47
  for the wine. This is the new covenant in my
• 1:31:53
  blood, which is being poured out for you, Ekunamenon, right?
• 1:32:01
  Why use a present passive participle in Greek?
• 1:32:05
  Because it's translating Jesus as Hebrew or Aramaic.
• 1:32:08
  Maybe Hebrew. It's a ritual ceremony, but it's
• 1:32:12
  got to be translating a present passive participle in Hebrew or
• 1:32:15
  Greek. Why would Jesus use a present
• 1:32:18
  passive participle? Because the time between the
• 1:32:22
  future and the present for the Hebrew prophets, Not just for
• 1:32:27
  Jesus the Messiah, the Son of God, but for the Hebrew
• 1:32:30
  prophets, literally the prophetic word could travel into
• 1:32:34
  the future through the mind of God, where the future already
• 1:32:39
  exists in God's mind, and bring it back into the present or
• 1:32:44
  Orient the present toward that existing future in God's mind.
• 1:32:50
  This is normal for Hebrews we're our interpretation is abnormal
• 1:32:56
  for what Jesus's mentality would be.
• 1:32:59
  That's why he's saying, which is being poured word out for you
• 1:33:03
  now. And meaning the Mass, when we go
• 1:33:06
  to Mass and the consecration happens, we are entering this
• 1:33:10
  reenactment of Jesus Christ. That's right.
• 1:33:14
  It's not, it's not, it's, it's a kind of like time travel.
• 1:33:18
  We're kind of time traveling. And you're saying you're a
• 1:33:20
  double collapse of time is what it is.
• 1:33:23
  So there's two collapses. Jesus is at the Last Supper and
• 1:33:27
  he's handing the bread to his apostles, right?
• 1:33:30
  But he says, this is my body which is being given for you.
• 1:33:34
  So now the being given part, right?
• 1:33:37
  The Jesus's word, it's not just a prophetic word, it's his
• 1:33:40
  messianic Son of God, divine word going into the future in
• 1:33:44
  God's mind and bringing back his body on the cross.
• 1:33:49
  He's bringing it back into the very bread that he's talking
• 1:33:54
  about. It doesn't have to have the
• 1:33:57
  appearance of a body. It can have the appearance of
• 1:34:00
  bread but still be his body. That's like a normal thing to
• 1:34:06
  collapse. You know this, this real
• 1:34:09
  substantial Thomas Quincy called substantial change into the
• 1:34:13
  bread. So the prophetic moment, it
• 1:34:15
  comes, right? The messianic divine moment
• 1:34:19
  comes, and the first collapse of time, Jesus is where it goes
• 1:34:22
  into the future, brings his body into the bread, brings the blood
• 1:34:26
  dripping from his body into the wine, and then of course it
• 1:34:30
  becomes his body and his blood. He doesn't say this is my bread
• 1:34:34
  body. He says this is.
• 1:34:37
  And by the way, Esten Greek is, that's like an identity word.
• 1:34:42
  There's lots of ways you can indicate in Greek.
• 1:34:45
  This is symbolic of my body. This is representative of my
• 1:34:49
  body. This is like my body.
• 1:34:51
  This is similar to my body. But none of those words were
• 1:34:54
  used. It was the verb to be an
• 1:34:58
  identity word. This is my body which is being
• 1:35:04
  given for you. Now when you look at those
• 1:35:07
  present passive participles, I have no trouble believing for a
• 1:35:11
  single moment. Jesus believes that the
• 1:35:13
  prophetic word, which has a life of its own, goes into the future
• 1:35:17
  through the mind of God and brings back his body on the
• 1:35:21
  cross and his blood dripping from his body on the cross into
• 1:35:25
  the cup, into the bread, and into the cup of wine, which
• 1:35:29
  become His body and blood. Not wine, blood, but his blood.
• 1:35:36
  Not bread, body, but His body. If he meant something else, he
• 1:35:41
  could have said did. You do all three already for us?
• 1:35:44
  Or was there a third didn't? You yeah, now you got the double
• 1:35:48
  collapse of time. So the double collapse of time
• 1:35:52
  happens when the priest is holding up right the the host.
• 1:35:56
  So the word animnesis is used, but animnesis for the Hebrews
• 1:36:01
  does not mean call to mind. It means reliving it such that
• 1:36:08
  and by the way, the Hebrews did this a Passover, right?
• 1:36:11
  So to relive the Passover is not to call the Passover to mine
• 1:36:15
  very 21st century American way to look at things or a very 16th
• 1:36:20
  century a German way Martin Luther of looking at things.
• 1:36:24
  But that's not Jesus. That's not the 1st century
• 1:36:28
  somatic world. Just read Mercia Eliata, the
• 1:36:30
  sacred and the profane or the eternal return.
• 1:36:33
  What's happening is a reliving of the event that makes the past
• 1:36:37
  event and come into the present. That's why the priests were
• 1:36:42
  called prophets essentially before they were called priests,
• 1:36:46
  because they had the prophetic charism to collapse the time
• 1:36:50
  between the present and the past.
• 1:36:52
  So what we're receiving is really literally the bread that
• 1:36:56
  was transformed into the body of Christ at the Last Supper that
• 1:37:01
  Jesus handed to his apostles. The very same thing as what's
• 1:37:05
  being received now, you know, I've got a huge exegesis of this
• 1:37:10
  and I can give it for you in writing to post on if you want
• 1:37:16
  it. So you can see all the
• 1:37:18
  references to Gerhard von Fraud, Joe Hakim, Jeremias, as I said,
• 1:37:23
  Mercia, Eliada. These guys are smart guys.
• 1:37:27
  Johannes Betts has one of the best explanations of this double
• 1:37:31
  collapse of time and his article on the Eucharist in the
• 1:37:35
  Sacramento morning. But all if you want the whole
• 1:37:37
  thing with the references, just give it to you to post.
• 1:37:42
  So. So what were the three again?
• 1:37:43
  Give us the three. OK, number one, just name
• 1:37:45
  Jesus's language. Jesus's language.
• 1:37:47
  Language is all present tense. This is my body which is being
• 1:37:54
  given for you as in now second, and he doesn't he uses is not
• 1:37:59
  symbolic of etcetera. The second thing is, you know he
• 1:38:03
  certainly believes that the prophetic word has a life of its
• 1:38:06
  own, that it goes through the mind of God to bring the future
• 1:38:09
  event into the present. No question about that.
• 1:38:13
  That's the way he intends it, and that's what's indicated by
• 1:38:15
  the present passive participles D dominant and econominon.
• 1:38:19
  The the third thing that is relevant is the priest himself.
• 1:38:23
  When Jesus uses the word anemonesis, it's the Greek
• 1:38:26
  translation of Jesus's Hebrew for remembrance, which means a
• 1:38:30
  reliving of an event that collapses the the time between
• 1:38:36
  the present moment and the past sacred event into a single now
• 1:38:40
  where the the reality of the past becomes really present in
• 1:38:44
  the present. We had John Bevere on the show
• 1:38:46
  recently who's an amazing friend.
• 1:38:48
  He's someone who's done incredible work writing about
• 1:38:50
  God's glory and spiritual warfare.
• 1:38:52
  He's evangelical, raised Catholic.
• 1:38:55
  You know, he's kind of on his, we're all on our own journeys.
• 1:38:57
  But he made a comment and I've heard some other non Catholic
• 1:39:01
  Christian say this and you know, again, he was raised Catholic.
• 1:39:04
  So I would say once Catholic, always Catholic, but he's not
• 1:39:07
  practicing. That being said, he said, well,
• 1:39:09
  what about, you know, I am the vine, you know, you are the
• 1:39:13
  branches was Jesus. Jesus was obviously not saying
• 1:39:17
  he is a literal plant, you know, and we are actual plants.
• 1:39:21
  Similarly, this is my bread. This is my you know, this is
• 1:39:25
  this is my body, this is my blood.
• 1:39:26
  It's a symbol. It's symbolic.
• 1:39:29
  It's not meant to be. You're talking about Jesus is
• 1:39:33
  talking about it literally. Yes, I would say you can use the
• 1:39:37
  verb to be in metaphorical ways, but when you look at the context
• 1:39:42
  of the Eucharist, Jesus is not he's he's not speaking in any
• 1:39:47
  symbolic or metaphorical language whatsoever.
• 1:39:50
  Well, in John I'm, I'm speaking about in John, right.
• 1:39:52
  So John in John, in John six, he talks about you have to
• 1:39:56
  basically chew my flesh, right. And then the some of the
• 1:39:58
  disciples left him. Oh yes.
• 1:40:00
  But then in John 15, Jesus says I am the true vine and my Father
• 1:40:04
  is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me
• 1:40:06
  that bears no fruit. I am the vine, you are the
• 1:40:08
  branches. If you remain in me, you will
• 1:40:10
  bear much fruit. Yeah, I get it.
• 1:40:12
  So you can use a verb to be in a metaphorical way, but it's very
• 1:40:16
  clear that you're using it in a metaphorical way.
• 1:40:18
  Where is when you're looking at John 6 or when you're looking at
• 1:40:22
  the Eucharistic discourses in this 3 synaptic gospels, it is
• 1:40:27
  very clear that he's not doing that because he compounds the is
• 1:40:32
  this is my body. He compounds, that is, with a
• 1:40:35
  present passive participle. If that doesn't indicate A
• 1:40:39
  literal identity, what does? Why would you ever use a present
• 1:40:44
  passive participle to say which is being given for you or which
• 1:40:48
  is being poured out for you to implying the now, if you didn't
• 1:40:52
  mean the is in a literal sense, The other one is an obvious
• 1:40:56
  metaphor, and it's an you know what the context tells you.
• 1:41:01
  You know I am the vine Entire statement is a metaphor, right?
• 1:41:05
  It's The entire statement is parabolic.
• 1:41:08
  I am the vine by which you are connected.
• 1:41:11
  He obviously means it in a symbolic way.
• 1:41:14
  You can tell that the use of the present passive participle means
• 1:41:17
  that Jesus is not using it in a metaphorical way.
• 1:41:21
  Father Spitzer, thank you so much.
• 1:41:24
  You are such a gift to this show, to the church.
• 1:41:28
  How can people find you and your many books, your incredible
• 1:41:32
  courses, all the amazing work of the Magic Center?
• 1:41:34
  Yeah, just go to majacenter.com. That's spelled MAGI scenter.com.
• 1:41:40
  All my books are there. I have 20 of them.
• 1:41:45
  I would you know, I've got coming out in June the Science
• 1:41:48
  Reason and faith Catholic Study Bible.
• 1:41:51
  So you can get this right embedded in the scriptures.
• 1:41:55
  And I have a resource called Majus AI.
• 1:41:57
  It's free of charge MAG ISAI all one word.
• 1:42:02
  Just put it in your Apple store field search field and just
• 1:42:05
  download it. I've got you know all the things
• 1:42:08
  that we are going to talk about today and I've talked about
• 1:42:10
  today. Those are are there present and
• 1:42:15
  along with all the resources and the the scientific sources for
• 1:42:19
  the information. A big thank you to our channel
• 1:42:21
  partner EWTN. EWTN is the world's largest
• 1:42:26
  religious broadcast network, reaching millions of people
• 1:42:29
  every single day with the beautiful truth of the gospel.
• 1:42:32
  You can be the first to watch new Lila Rose Show episodes 24
• 1:42:36
  hours before YouTube over at ewtn.com, slash on demand and on
• 1:42:41
  the EWTN app.