Latest / The Lila Rose Show / E187: Debunking The Myths About Opus Dei w/Fr Luke Mata

Transcript

E187: Debunking The Myths About Opus Dei w/Fr Luke Mata · The Lila Rose Show

• 0:00
  What is Opus Day and why is it different from just being a
• 0:04
  regular Catholic? While you're working your work,
• 0:07
  you're turning it into prayer by the love you put into it.
• 0:11
  Dan Brown wrote a book, generally speaking Opus Day,
• 0:14
  making it out to be secretive and shady and they do all these
• 0:17
  self punishments. During those years, I remember
• 0:20
  it being on flights, people next to me reading the book, they
• 0:23
  say, how do you like the book? Oh, it's great.
• 0:25
  And I would ask, have you ever met anybody in Opus Day?
• 0:27
  No, no, hi, you know, and I would introduce myself and then
• 0:31
  led to really wonderful conversations, you know, and.
• 0:34
  Father Luke Mata, welcome to the podcast.
• 0:35
  Thank you. Thank you, Lila.
• 0:37
  Great to be. Here.
• 0:37
  It's an honor to have you here. You're very busy going up and
• 0:41
  down California preaching the good news, and we have many,
• 0:44
  many mutual friends. You have helped me and heard my
• 0:46
  confession many times. So thank you for all of your
• 0:49
  labours of love for souls and for our Lord.
• 0:53
  You're very, very welcome. You're very gracious.
• 0:55
  Thank you, Lila. So my hope bringing you here and
• 0:59
  thank you for coming is to talk about prayer and also what it
• 1:03
  means to be a priest of the work.
• 1:05
  I think there's some myths to shatter, maybe about Opus Day
• 1:09
  that I thought who better than Father Lukmata?
• 1:12
  So thank you. Thanks for being willing to to.
• 1:15
  Ask me anything you want. Ask Father Lukmata anything
• 1:18
  amazing. So let's start with your
• 1:22
  priesthood. When did you become a priest?
• 1:25
  What made you decide to become a priest?
• 1:28
  Well, I became a priest about 20 years ago.
• 1:31
  And why? Because I felt like God was
• 1:33
  calling me to it. I came to the priesthood through
• 1:39
  the work, as you call it, Opus Day.
• 1:41
  Sometimes it's referred to as the work.
• 1:44
  Opus Day means work of God. And so I was a member of Opus
• 1:48
  Day. I made a, a commitment to Opus
• 1:51
  Day for life when I was in college, but I always, I always
• 1:56
  wanted to be a doctor and that's what I started studying.
• 1:59
  And then little by little, God was showing me he had different
• 2:03
  plans for me. I, I never thought really of the
• 2:06
  priesthood until much later, but then it became more and more
• 2:10
  clear and, and, and so, yeah, I was ordained finally.
• 2:16
  I was, I don't know, 3839 when I was ordained.
• 2:19
  So I was kind of starting to become an old man.
• 2:23
  Where are you from originally? I'm from Madrid.
• 2:25
  I'm from Madrid. My parents moved there.
• 2:28
  My dad actually is from Tangiers.
• 2:30
  He was born in Northern Africa. So now when people ask me, I
• 2:34
  tell him I'm an African American because my dad was from Africa,
• 2:38
  my mom was from the northern part of Spain.
• 2:41
  But eventually both of them ended up in Madrid and they got
• 2:46
  married and that's why I was born there.
• 2:48
  Growing up, were you feeling alleged to the priesthood
• 2:52
  growing up in Madrid or was that something that came to you later
• 2:55
  when you were in college and you.
• 2:57
  Said yeah, it came later even, not even during college per SE.
• 3:00
  I think it was having afterwards.
• 3:03
  I mean, I was always hoping to whatever God wanted and and
• 3:06
  certainly I would ask him often a whatever you want of me, show
• 3:11
  it to me. And I mean, I learned that from
• 3:13
  my parents. And then certainly in in my
• 3:16
  being part and receiving formation from up this day.
• 3:20
  That was always encouraged. So, yeah.
• 3:24
  And along the way I was asked, is this something that you think
• 3:27
  God will be calling you to? And so I took it to prayer and,
• 3:30
  and it wasn't one big moment, one big big, just, it was like a
• 3:35
  little tiny gentle voice that became kind of louder and louder
• 3:39
  and louder. And I'm finally, I thought, hey,
• 3:42
  maybe, maybe this is it. So I mentioned this in my
• 3:46
  spiritual direction and then I, I told the prelate of Opiste,
• 3:50
  Hey, I think this God is maybe calling me today.
• 3:53
  So he said, OK, come over to Rome.
• 3:55
  And so I went over to the our seminary.
• 3:57
  Opiste has just once international seminary in Rome.
• 4:02
  And so that's where I went. What was it about your
• 4:05
  childhood? Can you share more about it that
• 4:08
  put you on this path where it sounds like you were always
• 4:11
  trying to serve our Lord and be faithful and then you were open
• 4:14
  to the priesthood. You would receive that call more
• 4:16
  clearly later, maybe in college and in your in your 20s, but
• 4:20
  what was it? What was the your upbringing
• 4:23
  like that opened your heart so much to God and His grace?
• 4:26
  Yeah, that's a great question. I, I have to say I, I just had,
• 4:31
  and I'm so lucky, really wonderful parents.
• 4:34
  My dad actually died almost a year ago.
• 4:36
  It was just a few days ago. It was his first anniversary.
• 4:39
  And actually I can share something because it was so
• 4:41
  beautiful. I wasn't there when he died.
• 4:44
  I was there a little bit before and we had a kind of a family
• 4:51
  reunion where nine kids, I'm the second oldest.
• 4:56
  And so I spent a few times and by then we had moved my dad to
• 5:01
  the main living room. They had a hospital bed and all
• 5:04
  the Hospice stuff there. And the night before I was
• 5:08
  coming back to the US, We had dinner all around my dad's bed.
• 5:16
  And my dad would always get very emotional when it were the
• 5:21
  departure was a goodbyes and related to his upbringing.
• 5:25
  But and we were all there and he was getting kind of a little bit
• 5:32
  emotional. He was very aware.
• 5:33
  Very. And then one of my sisters said,
• 5:37
  hey, dad, are you afraid? He knew he was going to die
• 5:44
  soon. Are you afraid of dying?
• 5:47
  And he said no, it was very upbeat and cheerful, big smile.
• 5:53
  He said no, no. And my sister said, really, he
• 5:55
  said, no, I, I really want to see God and I want to see him
• 5:59
  face to face. And so he said, I'm, I'm looking
• 6:03
  forward to say, listen, I, I don't want to die.
• 6:06
  I mean, whenever he wants. I mean, I know it's coming, but
• 6:09
  but I want to see him so badly that I'm looking forward to it.
• 6:12
  I mean, that was quite a you know, we were all and then one
• 6:16
  of my other sisters has three girls and six boys.
• 6:18
  The sisters are amazing. They really are something.
• 6:21
  And then another one said, well, dad, we prepare a list of all
• 6:27
  the things that we want you to do when you get to heaven.
• 6:30
  And he started laughing and and he was just a beautiful laughter
• 6:35
  at that moment. And and he kind of laughing.
• 6:38
  He said, I thought it was called eternal rest and you're giving
• 6:43
  me more work. I say, yes, that.
• 6:45
  And, and they had the three of them had gotten together and
• 6:47
  actually they they had a list and he.
• 6:50
  Was. So they wanted him to pray for
• 6:52
  for. Them what and do when he was in
• 6:54
  heaven? Yeah, it was.
• 6:56
  And, and then and then he then kind of stop and he said, hold
• 7:00
  on a second, you can't take anything to heaven with you.
• 7:04
  And my sisters were prepared for that.
• 7:06
  I said, yeah, Dad, that's what we we're going to give it to you
• 7:08
  now so you have time to memorize it, you know, And I was, it's
• 7:12
  just a wonderful moment. But that's kind of the parents I
• 7:16
  grew up with. My dad was really a river and
• 7:18
  he, his father abandoned them when he was four or five.
• 7:22
  And his father, my grandfather, that he had a huge conversion at
• 7:26
  the end of his life. But so my dad became kind of
• 7:30
  like his father, a wealthy Playboy basically, But then he
• 7:34
  had a big conversion through up his stay came back to the faith
• 7:39
  and and he really came back strong.
• 7:42
  He ended up becoming a member of up his stay.
• 7:46
  And so both my parents were in up his stay.
• 7:48
  So I I grew up with that with great parents who love God, who
• 7:53
  went to daily mass, who they were great lovers of freedom.
• 7:57
  They never pushed anything on us but the example they gave us.
• 8:01
  So I'll give you, I mean, one thing that I, I mean, I say this
• 8:04
  not with shame, but we were a big athletic family.
• 8:08
  My dad was the incredible athlete.
• 8:10
  So we did a lot of sports together.
• 8:12
  And during the winter, the big one was skiing.
• 8:15
  So just about every most weekends we would go skiing and
• 8:20
  my dad would always on this was Saturday.
• 8:23
  Saturday, we would go skiing and my dad would always make the
• 8:27
  same announcement. Friday at dinner.
• 8:29
  He's OK, kids, the playing. Tomorrow, his mom and I are
• 8:31
  going to go to Mass so we can all go to Mass if you want to.
• 8:36
  And then breakfast we get, you know, nice breakfast and we go
• 8:39
  skiing. Why you guys think?
• 8:41
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think any of us ever
• 8:45
  went to Mass with them. It's Saturday morning.
• 8:47
  You had to get up early to go to, you know, Saturday early
• 8:50
  morning Mass. So.
• 8:53
  And my dad never say you rascals, you're not.
• 8:55
  I mean, he would always suffer it, but they didn't.
• 8:58
  And we watch our parents go to daily mass.
• 9:01
  Even on Saturday morning, he had to get up early.
• 9:03
  And my dad worked very hard. Mom, stay home.
• 9:05
  And so so work even harder, really.
• 9:07
  But yeah, now, I mean, that's the thing that the example that
• 9:11
  they gave us at the time, maybe we didn't take advantage of it,
• 9:17
  but their witness actually had a huge impact, right?
• 9:22
  Because now most of us go to daily Mass and and I say, hey,
• 9:26
  that's because of the witness and example that we saw in our
• 9:29
  parents, right? So why was their influence huge?
• 9:32
  In fact, St. Josemaria, the founder of Opus
• 9:34
  Day, used to say often to members of Opus Day, including
• 9:42
  the priest of course, that you owe your parents at least 90% of
• 9:48
  your vocation, if not more, you know.
• 9:50
  And I remember the day of my ordination or the day after my
• 9:58
  parents met with the prelative Upiste who ordained me a priest,
• 10:02
  Bishop Javier Chevarria, who was Saint Nosemaria's personal
• 10:06
  secretary for many, many years. Then he ended up being the
• 10:09
  prelative Upiste himself. But I remember it was a
• 10:13
  wonderful meeting. He was very warm.
• 10:15
  And he told my parents something that I thought was very funny.
• 10:20
  He said, hey, don't think OK, now your your son is a priest.
• 10:23
  Now you're done. You can't, you know, worry about
• 10:26
  the other ones because this one is is ready says no.
• 10:30
  Now you have to pray for him even more now.
• 10:33
  Yeah, because you're the parents of a priest.
• 10:35
  Now you have even more work, you know, which is kind of my
• 10:39
  parents were like really say yeah.
• 10:40
  Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. It's.
• 10:42
  A big It's a big job. And yeah, I'm convinced.
• 10:46
  And I, I think he told him also that, but I'm convinced that the
• 10:50
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• 10:53
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• 12:00
  So you you said something a moment ago, you said your dad
• 12:04
  had a big conversion through Opus Day and if I heard you
• 12:08
  right, you said he was a wealthy Playboy.
• 12:11
  I think were the words you used. That's so interesting that he
• 12:14
  had this. It sounds like he was living a
• 12:17
  different lifestyle and then he had a conversion as an adult
• 12:20
  man. Were were you being brought up
• 12:23
  by him during this time or was this?
• 12:25
  No, No. No, this was before he saw the
• 12:27
  conversion happened. My guess he was probably about
• 12:29
  20. So he wasn't married yet.
• 12:31
  Yeah, and my mother would have never married him in that kind
• 12:34
  of lifestyle. No, that happened probably
• 12:38
  19/20/21. I, I don't remember, but around
• 12:41
  then, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And how did that I, I, I know
• 12:46
  people listening, some of them may have heard of Opus Day.
• 12:49
  I, I, I've mentioned it a couple times because this was key in my
• 12:52
  conversion process of becoming Catholic, becoming closer to our
• 12:57
  Lord. Was it in college that your
• 12:59
  father encountered Opus Day, or how did he encounter?
• 13:01
  That he must have been at the time, yeah.
• 13:03
  I would say probably a freshman in college, a sophomore
• 13:09
  somewhere in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 13:12
  Maybe a senior in high school, but I don't think so.
• 13:14
  I think it would have been I I don't remember to be honest.
• 13:16
  But somewhere around there 2019. And by the way, it happened.
• 13:22
  Well, it's, it's, you know, it's divine grace got at work.
• 13:26
  Actually, it's, it all started. I mean, it's, you see how my, my
• 13:33
  grandmother, his mother, and that's the reason they moved to
• 13:37
  Madrid was because he came down with tuberculosis and the
• 13:44
  closest and best hospital for this kind of care and also the
• 13:51
  best French school in the same from Tangiers was Madrid.
• 13:54
  Madrid had a very good French school because my dad Tangiers
• 13:59
  was French speaking and also they had the sanatorium there as
• 14:03
  they used to be called, so that's why they moved there.
• 14:06
  My grandmother with my dad and his brother, they had two kids.
• 14:12
  And what happened, unfortunately, sometimes she
• 14:16
  would have to go into this sanatorium for weeks at a time
• 14:21
  and she would leave my father and brother by themselves in
• 14:24
  their apartment. And then while they did what at
• 14:29
  the time, you know, and basically there's this totally
• 14:32
  wild, wild parties. Well, my grandmother came back
• 14:37
  earlier than expected on a weekend and she came and there
• 14:42
  was one of those wild, wild parties taking place and she was
• 14:45
  shocked. What what's he saw?
• 14:47
  And so she was shocked. And my father, who really loved
• 14:52
  his mom, my grandmother was so sorry to see her like that.
• 14:57
  And and so they talked and my grandmother said, why can't you
• 15:05
  just date good girls? Why are you doing this with
• 15:08
  these crazy people? And my father said just had the
• 15:12
  only girls I know. I don't know anything else
• 15:15
  because he moved in bad circles. I mean money.
• 15:19
  And so anyway, what happened shortly after that, again, it's
• 15:24
  all very providential. My grandmother was with three or
• 15:27
  four friends. They were having tea and one of
• 15:31
  them asked her, Hey, how, how, how are you boys?
• 15:34
  And said, well, not good. You know, I just witnessed this
• 15:39
  and they felt bad for her. And one of them said, well, I, I
• 15:43
  have a nephew who is the most wonderful boy and you know, he's
• 15:47
  involved with a group where they organize very nice parties for
• 15:50
  boys and girls and said, maybe your son is what's the name of
• 15:54
  the group? And says, I always call OPA
• 15:56
  stay. She didn't know anything about
• 15:58
  OPA stay. She thought, I mean, OPA stay
• 16:00
  doesn't do nice parties for boys and girls, but that's what she
• 16:03
  understood. And so he said, I'll tell my
• 16:06
  nephew to call your son. So this fellow who I grew up
• 16:10
  calling Uncle Pepe, who became one of my dad's best friends,
• 16:16
  call my dad. They say, hey, you want to come?
• 16:18
  And my dad understood he was going to a party.
• 16:21
  They were actually going to a recollection of this kind of
• 16:24
  adoration and prayer. They were, you know, the the
• 16:28
  wires got crossed. My father thought he was going
• 16:30
  to a party. This guy I thought was he wanted
• 16:33
  to go to a recollection to adoration and prayer.
• 16:36
  So when my father showed up and it was a a small Chapel with the
• 16:41
  monstrance and all the things and the priest, my dad freaked
• 16:44
  out. So where are the girls?
• 16:46
  Where am I, you know, said shut up because the thing was
• 16:48
  starting. So my dad sat through this
• 16:51
  thing. But amazing when it ended, as
• 16:53
  the priest was coming out, he said you come, I need to talk to
• 16:57
  you. And after two or three hours
• 17:00
  with the priest, he went to confession and Pam, everything
• 17:04
  changed. So you can see it's one of those
• 17:07
  moments of grace, right? The way my dad, I mean, he told
• 17:10
  us the story a million times, you know, But he said, I don't
• 17:14
  know what happened, but it happened, you know?
• 17:16
  And so that's kind of. Yeah, it's.
• 17:21
  And my grandmother, whom I got to know some, I was about 6 or 7
• 17:26
  when she died. But she was a very holy woman,
• 17:30
  very, you see, suffer a lot. I mean, the husband abandoned.
• 17:34
  I mean, she was 24 when my grandfather left them and with
• 17:39
  two little kids. Completely abandoned to take up
• 17:43
  with another woman. Or just he didn't.
• 17:44
  Want to he left with a dancer in town.
• 17:47
  He'd left with the dancer and my grandma was left.
• 17:50
  I think she got so sick because of the trauma of everything she
• 17:54
  went through amazingly enough. I mean so that the I don't want
• 17:58
  to leave you on people with the right before he died.
• 18:03
  And I remember this because we would never see my grandfather
• 18:06
  and the little kids say where is grandpa?
• 18:08
  Well, you know, my dad didn't want to give too many
• 18:11
  explanations, but when my grandmother was dying, I
• 18:16
  remember my grandfather showing up probably the first time I met
• 18:19
  him or that I recall. And after that, every summer we
• 18:25
  would spend a few weeks with him.
• 18:27
  And it was not only until a little bit later that I what
• 18:30
  happened was when my grandma was about to die, he asked my
• 18:33
  father, ask your father to come. I want to see him.
• 18:37
  So my grandfather came to his credit, thinking that he was
• 18:42
  just going to get, you know, well, you know, you.
• 18:46
  And maybe he was going to get scolded for what he had done.
• 18:49
  That's what he thought. But instead my grandma says,
• 18:52
  hey, I want to I'm I'm about to die.
• 18:54
  I want to tell you I still love you, you still my husband.
• 18:57
  There was not divorce back then. And you know, I'm I'm hoping to
• 19:04
  get to heaven. I'll be praying for you and the
• 19:06
  family. But please, this woman you're
• 19:08
  with marry her and baptize. They had a little girl baptize
• 19:12
  that girl and I still love you. And then she died shortly after.
• 19:15
  My grandfather couldn't believe that they could be so much love
• 19:21
  after everything he had done to her and that he had an instant
• 19:26
  conversion and he himself died a very holy death.
• 19:30
  You know, it's amazing. It's the power of grace, the
• 19:32
  power of love and forgiveness that is.
• 19:34
  It's like, wow, you know, and, and it was great because then
• 19:38
  we, we got to enjoy being with grandpa quite a bit, you know?
• 19:42
  How old was she when she passed? She was had lived a her a long
• 19:45
  life at this point. She was from.
• 19:47
  My guess is that she was in the late 50s.
• 19:51
  And so she died relatively young then, but she didn't remarry
• 19:55
  after being abandoned by her husband.
• 19:56
  No, because I mean now this you know that first of all, there
• 19:59
  was not and she wouldn't have never.
• 20:01
  She always believed it is my husband and.
• 20:04
  I think she was always hoping to get him back, never gave up on
• 20:08
  that. And in a way she did, you know.
• 20:12
  And so, yeah, that was and, and, and then learning the whole
• 20:16
  story in detail was very, I mean, it always was to me, but I
• 20:20
  think all my siblings very inspiring, right?
• 20:22
  The power of grace, the power of prayer.
• 20:26
  I mean, she never stopped praying for him.
• 20:27
  And the conversion came, you know when the conversion came,
• 20:32
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  to early June. Go to austria.franciscan.edu and
• 21:31
  sign. And up today, that's
• 21:32
  austria.franciscan.edu. Check it out there.
• 21:35
  There are so many conversions that I am hearing about, have
• 21:39
  heard about to the Catholic faith and to generally wanting
• 21:44
  to go the direction of Christianity.
• 21:46
  I think that's something that's happening a lot right now.
• 21:49
  And I do believe strongly that the work of San Jose Maria
• 21:53
  founding the work and what the Spirit inspired him to do is a
• 21:57
  huge driver of it. And it's often kind of quiet and
• 22:00
  behind the scenes. You know, I know Opus Day isn't
• 22:02
  flashy like out there being like we're Opus Day, you know, line
• 22:05
  right up. It's a little more quiet and
• 22:08
  just peaceful behind the scenes working.
• 22:10
  You've been in ministry 20 years.
• 22:13
  I know I'm I know you've seen conversions.
• 22:17
  Can you share some conversion stories that you've seen?
• 22:21
  Yeah, I won't give names, but and, and, and, and, and that's
• 22:25
  one of the things that actually, when you say it's true, and I
• 22:28
  think it's amazing, it's very beautiful that sometimes we have
• 22:32
  a tendency to see more the dark side of things and all the bad.
• 22:38
  And there is plenty of bad. Don't get me wrong.
• 22:41
  We, we fail sometime to say even in the midst of all of that, God
• 22:45
  is doing incredible things, as you say.
• 22:48
  Some of them are conversions. I mean, I, I have several in the
• 22:52
  works right now. People, you know, even yesterday
• 22:54
  I had dinner with a young, young woman and the fiance, they just
• 22:59
  got engaged and I'm doing their marriage prep and she's a model.
• 23:09
  She has undergone kind of several steps in the conversion.
• 23:13
  One from being a model, let's say that you and I probably
• 23:17
  wouldn't want to see their pictures to 1 where it's totally
• 23:21
  fine now to see her pictures and you know, which is very
• 23:24
  beautiful. But now the conversion to really
• 23:28
  taking her fate seriously. And, and so last night, in fact,
• 23:33
  I did a little marriage prep and at the end some preparation
• 23:36
  because he wants to come into the Catholic Church, as he told
• 23:40
  me. Now, I don't want to wait
• 23:41
  because I'm, I'm hungry in for the Eucharist, you know, and
• 23:45
  that one took place because of their dating.
• 23:48
  I mean, I'm not a great fan of what I call missionary dating,
• 23:53
  but but sometimes it works, which I think is great.
• 23:57
  Right. But I'll tell you one that
• 23:59
  happened. I was doing these recollections
• 24:02
  in the evening not too far from here.
• 24:04
  And this one for men, one from women.
• 24:08
  One day after the this recollection adoration time,
• 24:12
  these two wonderful fellows came and they, they say we need a
• 24:17
  favor from you. So what's up?
• 24:18
  He said, well, a common friend, a friend of the two of us is
• 24:22
  dying and he wants to be baptized.
• 24:26
  Would you, would you do it? And I said, well, give me a
• 24:31
  little bit of background and what's going on.
• 24:34
  And basically this, this fellow, his name is Doug, was a very
• 24:41
  successful money manager, investor or whatever, and he was
• 24:46
  investing their money. These were two pretty well to do
• 24:50
  professional men and and because they they were the two of them
• 24:56
  met because this guy was investing both of their monies
• 24:59
  and and the three of them ended up becoming very good friends.
• 25:02
  It started as a professional relationship became a
• 25:05
  friendship, an interesting thing.
• 25:07
  These two guys are very strong Catholics.
• 25:09
  The money manager guy was a total convinced atheist.
• 25:14
  I mean, hardcore, but and yet they became good friends and
• 25:18
  they would have a lot of theological discussions.
• 25:21
  And well, one day this guy announced that he was quitting
• 25:26
  that, you know, start get your money elsewhere.
• 25:29
  I have more money that I know for the rest of my life.
• 25:32
  And he told him that he was going to England, he was going
• 25:36
  to be at Oxford. He had been admitted in some
• 25:38
  program. They're doing theology and
• 25:40
  astrophysics and something else. But he wanted to become a
• 25:43
  disciple of Hawkins and Dawkins and all this, you know, all
• 25:47
  these people, and then come back to the States and, and become an
• 25:51
  apostle for atheism. That was that was his thing.
• 25:54
  And he did it. He was in England for four or
• 25:57
  five years, came back, had a beautiful home in Southern
• 26:02
  California. And basically he would invite
• 26:06
  writers and Hollywood people and intellectuals and, and have
• 26:12
  these, you know, that was his way of spreading atheism.
• 26:16
  But these two friends would sometimes be invited and they
• 26:19
  were in the middle of all of this and they were trying to
• 26:21
  bring some sanity and different point of view and they stay very
• 26:25
  strong. But shortly after his comeback,
• 26:27
  and when they said he was diagnosed with some rare disease
• 26:31
  of the nervous system that was very debilitating.
• 26:35
  And so very quickly he had to stop doing all of these things.
• 26:39
  Then he was confined to bed because he didn't he couldn't
• 26:43
  move. They couldn't walk anymore.
• 26:46
  And, and so these two guys would visit him every week, sometimes
• 26:53
  the two of them together, sometimes one or the other.
• 26:57
  And, and he would the dog, the sick person, the atheist would
• 27:01
  always ask him, hey, I'm having a tough time reading anymore.
• 27:04
  Would you read for me? And so part of the visit was
• 27:08
  they would read from some crazy book, he would say or whatever.
• 27:11
  And at one point the two of them were talking and say, Hey, why
• 27:14
  are we reading all this nonsense?
• 27:15
  We have a chance to to read something good different.
• 27:19
  So they decided that they would give him Mere Christianity.
• 27:24
  No, first was actually the abolition of Manchester Town.
• 27:28
  I think that was the first one. And they read that too.
• 27:30
  And, and, and he asked, Hey, why are you reading?
• 27:33
  We're not going to tell you, just listen.
• 27:34
  And he loved it. And then they read Mayor
• 27:37
  Christianity and then and he was really loving.
• 27:40
  And anyway, by the time they got to me, they were asking me to
• 27:43
  baptize him. They were halfway through the
• 27:46
  cat, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, you know, which
• 27:49
  is amazing because I know very few people who read the
• 27:52
  Catechism of the Catholic Church.
• 27:54
  So I went to see him. He by then he was in a Hospice
• 27:58
  in a special hospital care facility and, and I went to see
• 28:04
  him, He was in bed. He couldn't talk because the
• 28:07
  vocal cords now were affected by the nerve thing.
• 28:10
  So he could only kind of grunt and, and, and I say, hey, doc,
• 28:15
  so do you. Do you know why?
• 28:16
  Yeah, he will. Do you want to be baptized?
• 28:20
  And so I went through the basics he said to everything.
• 28:24
  And so we did the baptism and confirmation and Holy Communion.
• 28:30
  We did everything and the anointing of the sick.
• 28:33
  This is was you know, and but what happened was a few days
• 28:38
  before I asked the two of them asked his wife to make sure this
• 28:43
  is because I didn't want his wife to think that they were
• 28:46
  taking advantage of him because he was sick or whatever.
• 28:50
  And and they came back and they'd oh, she's totally in
• 28:53
  favor. Could the day or two days before
• 28:56
  I got a phone call from Doug's wife asking me if he if she
• 29:00
  could come to the to the baptism and everything there in his room
• 29:05
  in this care facility. So of course you're the wife he
• 29:08
  would be so happy that but remember I'm not a Christian.
• 29:11
  She was non baptized a woman who from northern Oregon.
• 29:16
  You know a lot of weird people you know you hug trees and you
• 29:20
  have pet rocks and that kind of wonderful, wonderful pet.
• 29:24
  But she came and when I got to the place I was parking the car,
• 29:27
  she came running and he I brought something for the
• 29:31
  ceremony and I was a little nervous.
• 29:33
  Oh, no. I said, what do you bring?
• 29:35
  So it was a Christian symbol. I went to the store and and I
• 29:38
  asked for a Christian symbol. So they I bought this and I was
• 29:42
  terrified. What is?
• 29:44
  And she unwrapped the thing. It was a cross.
• 29:46
  And I say, yeah, yeah, that's a Christian symbol.
• 29:48
  Yes, it is very good. So I asked her to hold the cross
• 29:52
  during the ceremony, which and she was in tears holding the
• 29:55
  cross. It was, but here's the point at
• 29:59
  the end when we finished and we had a little fun champagne and
• 30:05
  we, you know, to celebrate. I was coming back to the car and
• 30:09
  she followed me. It was very wow.
• 30:12
  I'll never forget. She said, hey, I just want to
• 30:15
  tell you something. So, yeah, since, you know, when
• 30:20
  we started doing all our things in our home and all these
• 30:22
  people, we had a million friends, a lot of things.
• 30:25
  And when that got sick, pretty quickly, everything stopped.
• 30:31
  And then the only two people with almost every week for the
• 30:34
  last three years who've been coming are two Catholics.
• 30:38
  She said, this is what Catholics do.
• 30:42
  This is what the Catholic Church does to people.
• 30:46
  I want to become a Catholic, too.
• 30:48
  And it was, I was like, I was in tears.
• 30:50
  I said, wow. And it's just, it's Christians.
• 30:52
  It's not just Catholics, huh? But I mean, Jesus said it at the
• 30:56
  Last Supper. Love one another, the new
• 30:58
  commandments love one others as I love you by these all will
• 31:02
  know that you're my disciples. All we have to do is to love as
• 31:05
  Jesus does and we'll bring about the conversion of the whole
• 31:09
  world. That's all we need to do one
• 31:12
  person at a time. You know, that's what these two
• 31:15
  friends did, you know, and that's what I'm seeing a lot of
• 31:18
  those conversions because people experience that love and then
• 31:23
  they, they want it. They.
• 31:25
  And when they say, well, it's just coming from Christ and then
• 31:28
  Pam, here they come. You know, anyway, that's one.
• 31:32
  I could give you more examples, but I, I and, and to be honest,
• 31:35
  I feel so grateful, privileged, small that I'm, I'm seeing all
• 31:42
  these miracles and you go, wow, you know, it's yeah, so, and
• 31:48
  there's so many of them. Yeah.
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• 33:00
  What is Opus Day and why is it different from just being a
• 33:05
  regular Catholic? And why do you think so many of
• 33:10
  these conversions are happening? I mean, I I do think Opus Day is
• 33:13
  a unique conversion machine within the Church.
• 33:16
  Yeah, I would say I don't think we're the only one.
• 33:19
  And and I mean, there's other wonderful, wonderful.
• 33:25
  I mean, I, I don't want to start naming, you know, all the
• 33:28
  different. I mean, I, I have a number of
• 33:31
  close friends who are Dominicans, you know, and I see
• 33:34
  what they're doing and it's like, wow, you know, the
• 33:38
  northern teens in, in Orange County.
• 33:40
  I mean, what they anyway, I'm very close to the Carmelites in
• 33:44
  in LA, you know, anyway, so but I mean, we we're one more.
• 33:50
  But what I would say maybe what makes upstate unique is that it
• 33:54
  came very specifically for lay people.
• 34:00
  And I'm bringing not a spirituality, a religious
• 34:04
  spirituality that can be applied to lay people, but a true lay
• 34:10
  spirituality, which is something upstate starts.
• 34:14
  It wasn't an idea that St. Josemaria was there.
• 34:16
  Why I want to do something or I see a need in the church and
• 34:20
  maybe this would be a good thing that I could do.
• 34:23
  It was, it was miraculous. One day he was a young priest.
• 34:27
  He was 26 years old. He was making a retreat and in
• 34:33
  Spain, in Madrid. And the way he put himself is it
• 34:38
  was a vision is something that God he didn't want to talk much
• 34:43
  about it. He tried to keep it as quiet as
• 34:46
  he could, but that God showed him this is this is what I need.
• 34:50
  This is what I want you to do. And so that's what he did.
• 34:54
  In fact, he felt so much that this was that's the name of the
• 34:58
  state is interesting where he comes from.
• 35:00
  He didn't want to give it a name because he he just call it this
• 35:03
  thing that God showed me. But when we went, he went to the
• 35:07
  Bishop to tell the Bishop what was happening.
• 35:09
  The Bishop was very supportive, very supportive.
• 35:13
  And St. Nos.
• 35:14
  And Maria started working and, and at one point the Bishop
• 35:18
  wanted to give it a, a canonical approval and approval within the
• 35:22
  church, but he needed a name. He said, well, why are you
• 35:26
  calling this thing? And this is God didn't say
• 35:30
  anything. And that vision, he didn't give
• 35:31
  it a name. So I, I, I can't give it a name.
• 35:34
  And the Bishop said, well, you need a name, so God didn't give
• 35:38
  me one, so we'll come up with 1. And so he didn't he, you know,
• 35:43
  he didn't want to this to be called after his name or after
• 35:46
  he was pretty torn. And shortly after when he went
• 35:50
  to see his spiritual director, who was actually a Jesuit in
• 35:54
  Madrid, the spiritual director, as he was coming in, he said,
• 35:59
  hey, OSA Maria, how's that work of God going?
• 36:02
  And said, well, work of God and then work of God opus stay, said
• 36:08
  he decided to give it a Latin name because he didn't want Opus
• 36:11
  stay to be associated with a particular country or language.
• 36:14
  He said this God clearly said this is for the whole world, for
• 36:17
  the whole church. So he went back to the Bishop
• 36:21
  and said this Opus stay, it's the work of God said.
• 36:25
  He said I didn't come up with a name, but kind of God in a way
• 36:28
  gave him the name through the spiritual director.
• 36:30
  You know, so and, and it's very much that I mean to answer your
• 36:35
  question is helping busy men, women how to find God and love
• 36:44
  God with all their heart and mind and soul and strength and
• 36:47
  develop a deep prayer life in the midst of their busy life,
• 36:53
  their work, their family, their friends, their civic
• 36:56
  responsibilities. How can you find God in
• 36:59
  everything that you do, including your sleep?
• 37:01
  He would say, and that's what OPA state does, helping people
• 37:06
  find God and develop a deep relationship with him in the
• 37:10
  midst of a normal, ordinary life that most people live, right.
• 37:16
  So, and to do it quietly, I mean, Saint no St.
• 37:21
  Maria, I used to say is, is to do and to disappear do.
• 37:27
  And if nobody even knows that you're doing, even better.
• 37:30
  That's why sometimes we're accused of being secretive.
• 37:34
  And, and it's not that we're secretive is that we don't want
• 37:36
  to be seen because we want people to see God, not us.
• 37:40
  So if upstate is doing, if we're doing our work, you're going to
• 37:45
  see a lot of people doing wonderful things with upstate
• 37:50
  backing them up, giving them all the spiritual resources, all the
• 37:54
  spiritual direction and everything.
• 37:56
  And they are the ones who are being seen.
• 37:58
  And we're not even being here with you and talking about this.
• 38:02
  I'm almost breaking the rules, so to speak, right?
• 38:07
  No, but it's good. I mean, it's, but that's, it's,
• 38:10
  I mean, I, I'm, I'm super happy. Obviously I love upstate is my
• 38:13
  life and as you say, some people misunderstand and it's good to
• 38:17
  try to explain it better or clear some of the
• 38:20
  misunderstandings like we're secretive, We're not we don't
• 38:24
  advertise. It's not because we want to be
• 38:26
  secretive because we want people to seek Christ, not us.
• 38:29
  You know, we want other people who are doing wonderful things
• 38:32
  to be seen, you know, so hopefully we're mobilizing a lot
• 38:37
  of people to do great things for the church and the world.
• 38:41
  And nobody knows that up his days kind of pushing them, you
• 38:45
  know, up, you know, and and that's it, because that's what
• 38:49
  God wants. Well, I think the structure is
• 38:51
  so much action, not talk. You know, do the retreats, do
• 38:55
  the do the meditations, do the recollections, do the spiritual
• 38:58
  direction, do the confessions, do the sacraments, do the faith
• 39:02
  formation and soul to soul. So much of it is soul to soul.
• 39:06
  And that's where the richness can happen because this is a
• 39:09
  relationship that is being developed between people of God
• 39:13
  to draw closer to God and then invite friends in, keep inviting
• 39:17
  people in to get closer to God is the is the end game.
• 39:21
  You, I know, you know, obviously, but Dan Brown, the
• 39:25
  author, I'm not some, you know, super familiar with him, but I
• 39:28
  know he wrote a book with a character in it about or about
• 39:32
  generally speaking, of this day, making it out to be secretive
• 39:35
  and shady. And they do all these self
• 39:37
  punishments and all of this. And this was, I think now how
• 39:41
  long ago was it? 15 years ago.
• 39:43
  That was the 2000s, early 2000s, somewhere in there.
• 39:48
  But I do think there was a bit of an impact there of like,
• 39:50
  well, it sounds Opus day. It's a spooky name.
• 39:53
  It's, you know, it's Latin. What is your, what would you say
• 39:58
  would be the, you mentioned secretive, you know, people
• 40:00
  saying is it so secretive? It's obviously just doing the
• 40:02
  work. It's not about being secretive.
• 40:04
  It's about doing the work. But what would you say would be
• 40:06
  that you've experienced maybe the most common misconceptions
• 40:10
  about Opus Dei, and what would you say is the really the truth
• 40:15
  about what it really is and what it's all about?
• 40:17
  Yeah, I mean, I just gave you the essence of what it is, but
• 40:22
  the misconceptions and there is nothing new in the church.
• 40:26
  I mean, I, I mean for many, many years in in books and novels and
• 40:31
  books that Jesuits were always the evil if you wanted to attack
• 40:34
  the Church, right they. Still get a lot of hate.
• 40:37
  And I guess now we're part of that group too.
• 40:40
  You know, I think it's probably also because they feel
• 40:44
  threatened in a way that we're going against that their agenda
• 40:47
  in some way, right, Dan? Dan Brown's book, it was crazy
• 40:54
  from I mean, to me, the worst thing is, is the really in a
• 40:57
  way, the blasphemous thing that that Jesus had, you know, a baby
• 41:03
  with Mary Magdalene and the whole history of the Catholic
• 41:05
  Church, the church and the Catholic Church has been trying
• 41:09
  to suppress that truth and killing the people along the
• 41:12
  way. So the truth, I mean, the whole
• 41:13
  thing is, is, is crazy. I mean, it's, it's nuts.
• 41:17
  That's the worst part of the book that they take advantage
• 41:21
  of. Or they use Opus Day as the the
• 41:24
  Super evil now people who wear the assassin.
• 41:27
  So the main character is an Opus day monk, which first of all, we
• 41:30
  don't have monks because we're lay people, but and it's an
• 41:33
  albino monk. It's all part of the hey, throw
• 41:37
  everything in there to make it look as sinister as as you can
• 41:40
  make it. But I mean, that novel was
• 41:43
  incredibly successful. And then the movie, you know,
• 41:46
  with Tom Hanks and all of that. And, and during those years, I
• 41:51
  remember it being on flights and then this and, and people next
• 41:55
  to me reading the book, you know, and, and I to me became
• 41:59
  actually a great opportunity because I say, how do you like
• 42:02
  the book? Oh, it's great, you say.
• 42:05
  And I would ask, have you ever met anybody in Upper Stein?
• 42:07
  Oh, no, Hi. You know, and I would introduce
• 42:09
  myself and then led to really wonderful conversations, you
• 42:12
  know, and, but I think the biggest misconceptions, I mean,
• 42:18
  one of them is the secretive, The other one is the powerful,
• 42:20
  how powerful we are, which I, I, I don't know, I mean, powerful
• 42:27
  within the church. It's interesting if you go by
• 42:30
  power, for example, how many bishops, Archbishop or Cardinals
• 42:33
  are in upstate? It's very, very, almost none.
• 42:36
  And compared to, you know, Franciscans, Dominicans,
• 42:42
  Carmelites, whatever order you want to, you know, put out
• 42:46
  there, you know, Silesians, I mean, compared to them were
• 42:50
  nothing. So if you want to say power
• 42:52
  within the church, I think some of it starts because in Spain,
• 42:58
  where they start somewhere it grows.
• 43:00
  And we're still the the largest in after the Spanish Civil War
• 43:05
  where Spain needed to be rebuilt.
• 43:08
  There was a mess. It just happened that some of
• 43:11
  the best prepare smartest, whatever people were members of
• 43:17
  Up His Day and Young and Franco picked some of them to be in his
• 43:23
  cabinet. So they were part of Franco's
• 43:26
  government. And so I think a lot begins
• 43:29
  there. OK, we go up His Day is powerful
• 43:31
  for these people. What people don't tell you is
• 43:34
  that there were just as many members of Up His Day who were
• 43:37
  very opposed to Franco who were exiled from Spain because, you
• 43:43
  know, and so they. Were brothers, and that's so
• 43:46
  interesting that there were brothers and sisters in the work
• 43:49
  who were on opposite political sides and some of them working
• 43:54
  directly with the government and some of them literally exiled by
• 43:56
  the same government. Did they talk?
• 43:59
  Yeah, I know. And there's no problem.
• 44:00
  And this is one of the things that San Jose Maria always you
• 44:03
  know that when it comes. I mean the only things that we
• 44:05
  agree in in OPA state is I love for Jesus Christ and the
• 44:09
  teachings of the church. Everything else you can think
• 44:14
  whatever you want. There is no and so he was and in
• 44:17
  fact, he would recommend a for example, in the centers of
• 44:19
  upstate. I was a normal people.
• 44:22
  You can but let's not get into political things where because
• 44:26
  that's not who you know you vote, you think whatever you
• 44:29
  want. There's absolute total freedom.
• 44:31
  And he would emphasize that. In fact, he was almost pressure
• 44:35
  at some point to say, I mean, even this has not been written.
• 44:39
  And maybe I'm being indiscreet and and I cannot give you the
• 44:42
  exact source, but but they put pressure on him to talk to some
• 44:47
  of those members of upstate for certain things.
• 44:50
  And he said, I'm not doing that. I'm their spiritual father.
• 44:54
  Whatever they want to do politically, economically is
• 44:57
  their business. I'm not, I'm not getting
• 44:58
  involved with that. I just want to make sure that
• 45:01
  they're becoming Saints in, in and through their work, whether
• 45:06
  working, you know, I'm not going to I'm not getting involved and
• 45:08
  I'm not going to tell them what to do.
• 45:11
  You know, I'm the Secretary of State and others would try, hey,
• 45:13
  take advantage of this to steer in some way and say I'm not
• 45:17
  going to do that. And he made some enemies in Rome
• 45:20
  for refusing to to do that be he believed in the absolute
• 45:24
  political freedom and whatever of the members of the state to
• 45:28
  think whatever way they wanted. So, but I think part of the
• 45:33
  power and the thing comes from that.
• 45:36
  And and what people don't talk about is even, you know, they
• 45:40
  always opposite. I started under Franco and with
• 45:43
  Franco support. That's not true.
• 45:46
  Franco picked his people because they were the most qualified and
• 45:49
  nothing to do with their being. And, and if anything, San Jose
• 45:53
  Maria and Franco didn't get along because San Jose Maria
• 45:58
  never, never ever. It was very vocal about not
• 46:01
  liking dictators. And when clearly Franco was
• 46:05
  becoming a dictator, San Jose Maria made his opinion known
• 46:11
  very clear, you know, that he thought this should be, I don't
• 46:16
  know if he used the word democracy, but freedom and get
• 46:19
  people and, and Franco, you know, didn't quite get it.
• 46:23
  And so the two of them exchanged words a number of times, you
• 46:27
  know, so it's kind of interesting.
• 46:29
  And it makes sense to me. He was such a lover of freedom
• 46:32
  that, you know, this wasn't. And yet he led his spiritual
• 46:37
  children. If they wanted to work for
• 46:39
  Franco, that's their, I'm not going to tell them not to.
• 46:43
  They, they, they can make their own decisions, you know.
• 46:46
  And so the power, the secrecy, I mean, the other thing, the
• 46:50
  misconception is how wealthy up his day is.
• 46:53
  And it's funny because I have a few Jess with friends and even
• 46:56
  just in, in, in California. I mean, I think just the Jesuits
• 47:02
  in California are wealthier than upstate in the entire world in
• 47:07
  terms of assets. And this, I mean, I don't know,
• 47:10
  I'm throwing that thing. Maybe I'm wrong, right?
• 47:12
  I I, but it's, it's, it's true that we have quite a few
• 47:17
  institutions and John Allen in his book on upstate gets into
• 47:22
  all of this. And it's, by the way, it's a
• 47:23
  wonderful book. If you want to get into the nuts
• 47:26
  and bolts of upstate, read John Allen's book is wonderful.
• 47:30
  And that's only when it comes down to it.
• 47:32
  I mean, we don't have that much money or anything, you know,
• 47:36
  and, and which I'm happy about because we shouldn't, because
• 47:41
  living poverty according to the spear of upstate is so
• 47:45
  liberating because it appears that you have, when you don't,
• 47:48
  you just have the things that you need and nothing else.
• 47:50
  And you take very good care of them so they last.
• 47:52
  So you don't have to buy new ones and just have the things
• 47:55
  that you need to do the work of God.
• 47:56
  That's it, you know, and it's very liberating.
• 48:01
  I don't know if I answer your question, but I.
• 48:03
  That's it's very it's it's simple, right?
• 48:06
  Some of these answers that you're giving, but I think it's
• 48:09
  easy for things to get all hyped up and in the mysteriousness,
• 48:13
  people can have all kinds of, you know, an imagination about
• 48:16
  what things can mean. What does it mean practically to
• 48:20
  be a member of Opus Day? What does that look like?
• 48:24
  Well, on the externals, you're not going to see much of a
• 48:27
  difference, right? But what you're going to, I
• 48:30
  mean, to be a member of Opus Day, you have to be called by
• 48:32
  God. So you need a vocation.
• 48:34
  God has to call you, and that is discerning prayer like any other
• 48:38
  vocation that you discern marriage or you discern the
• 48:40
  religious life or the priesthood.
• 48:43
  We think that you can discern your vocation to up a stay if
• 48:48
  God is calling you to it. Usually the way it happens is
• 48:53
  you're introduced to up a stay by a friend, a family member, a
• 48:56
  classmate, A colleague, and, and you begin to maybe attend, you
• 49:01
  go to a retreat or you go to a recollection or something.
• 49:05
  And and then you begin to read. Maybe you read some of the
• 49:08
  writings of San Jose Maria, and this begins to resonate with
• 49:10
  you. And.
• 49:13
  And at some point it comes. OK, yeah, maybe I'm being called
• 49:17
  to a spiritual direction, of course.
• 49:20
  But in terms of the actual practices of a pistee, they're
• 49:24
  the traditional practices of the church.
• 49:27
  What St. Nos.
• 49:28
  And Maria had a genius. He was super practical.
• 49:31
  And one of the things he saw clearly is, you know, if you're
• 49:36
  a busy mom, a home with kids or working mom or a dad with a
• 49:43
  demanding job and traveling, whatever, whatever your
• 49:46
  situation is, and usually it's busy, How can you develop a deep
• 49:51
  life of prayer and formation in the middle of that said, what's
• 49:54
  going to require discipline and order?
• 49:58
  And so he came up with this idea.
• 49:59
  He called it a plan of life, which is basically a daily
• 50:03
  prayer routine, a weekly prayer routine or formation that is
• 50:09
  very flexible and yet demanding so that anybody can live it to
• 50:15
  some degree or another. And that includes like a morning
• 50:18
  offering and then daily Mass and spend time in adoration, mental
• 50:23
  prayer and then pray the rosary, do some spiritual reading, some
• 50:26
  reading on the Gospel and examination of conscience at
• 50:29
  night, which at first is, wow, that's a lot.
• 50:32
  But when you begin slowly and little by little, you
• 50:34
  incorporate it into your life, as he says, it fits like a hand
• 50:39
  in a glove. You just little by little.
• 50:41
  That's the way I did it. I started doing a little thing
• 50:44
  and a little rosary and then a little more and then and it just
• 50:47
  be it's like breathing. It becomes part of you.
• 50:50
  You don't have to think about it, you know, So that's, that's
• 50:55
  what a member of Upstate does on a daily, weekly basis getting,
• 50:59
  you know, there is a lot of formation that is given so you
• 51:01
  can carry out the work of evangelization and apostolate in
• 51:05
  the church. You can't give what you don't
• 51:07
  have. So there's weekly meetings, some
• 51:11
  monthly meetings to kind of be formed and be filled so then
• 51:16
  that you can give it and share that with others.
• 51:20
  So that would be your typical Upstate member.
• 51:24
  Those are the things. But what you're going to find is
• 51:26
  somebody, hopefully somebody who clearly loves God, who loves
• 51:31
  Jesus Christ, who loves the Eucharist, and then somebody who
• 51:35
  loves family and friends. I mean, hopefully what you're
• 51:38
  going to see is very loving people who are trying to share
• 51:42
  the the love of Christ that they have with everybody in that
• 51:46
  context of normal life, you know, family, friends, work, you
• 51:52
  know, loving your colleagues, the people who work with you,
• 51:55
  you know. Yeah, I don't know if I answer
• 51:59
  your question. No, you did that, that habit of
• 52:02
  prayer, the like the plan of life.
• 52:04
  What is your, you know, your, let's say you're talking to
• 52:07
  someone and they, they've tried to pray.
• 52:09
  They pray, you know, they say, well, I pray throughout the day.
• 52:11
  Maybe they read their Bible, but they they don't know how to kind
• 52:16
  of go to the next level or if they even should try trying to
• 52:18
  go to a next level. They want to live by the spirit
• 52:21
  in their day-to-day, but it's tough.
• 52:24
  And then maybe also there's dryness in the prayer.
• 52:26
  I think that can always be a big discourage or for for some
• 52:29
  people where they're maybe have received some inspirations in
• 52:33
  their faith walk and then they're, you know, it's getting
• 52:36
  harder. It's really hard to concentrate.
• 52:38
  It's really hard to make the time to sit down.
• 52:41
  And then when they make the time to sit down, they're distracted.
• 52:44
  You know, there's they're not really feeling they're getting
• 52:46
  something from the prayer, but they want to still, you know,
• 52:49
  serve God, live the life of faith.
• 52:53
  What's your guidance? You're such a good guide on
• 52:55
  prayer. I know that's where you spend so
• 52:57
  much of your time. Besides sacraments, doing is
• 52:59
  guiding people to pray. Yeah, great question.
• 53:03
  Lila, I let's see, there's so many things coming to my head
• 53:06
  all at once. If I can do it in a way that is
• 53:08
  a little bit organized and helpful here.
• 53:10
  I mean, the first thing that I would say is it's kind of a
• 53:13
  preamble to prayer, which is on the one hand, realizing how much
• 53:21
  God loves us and that would infinitely love them
• 53:24
  unconditionally. I mean, every time you look at a
• 53:28
  crucifix, what you're saying there is, is basically God,
• 53:33
  Jesus Christ, the Son of God, saying this is how much I love
• 53:35
  you, which to me, I, I, I just don't get used to it.
• 53:40
  You know, thank God, I don't, I mean, I, I, so that's, and, and
• 53:45
  at the same time, realizing that God made us for himself.
• 53:49
  We were made to be with him. That's the way we're wired.
• 53:53
  So if we don't have a strong relationship with, with God, we
• 53:59
  cannot be really fulfilled and happy.
• 54:01
  There's something missing. And I think it's everybody, even
• 54:05
  people who don't pray, there is, there is a hole in them.
• 54:08
  There's they know something is missing.
• 54:11
  They don't know what it is. You know, it's like the old
• 54:12
  country song, looking for love in all the wrong places, you
• 54:15
  know, you look for in these and these.
• 54:18
  And then people usually, yeah, they turn to it in in pleasure,
• 54:23
  in power, in fame and all of these things.
• 54:26
  And and they don't find it because we were made for God.
• 54:30
  This is San Agustin, you know, Lord, you made us for yourself,
• 54:33
  and our heart are restless until they rest in you, you know, So
• 54:38
  that's. And then I would say realizing
• 54:45
  that because of original sin and all the distractions and all the
• 54:51
  things, sometimes it takes us a while to realize, yeah, how much
• 54:55
  we're loved, what God does for us, We don't quite identify the
• 54:59
  whole that that the vacuum, that that's what it is.
• 55:02
  And and that's what we need other people to help us.
• 55:04
  And God always sends the people to tell us to help us see that
• 55:08
  that's what is missing. This is where friendship and
• 55:11
  family come in. And there is so much noise and
• 55:15
  distraction in our lives that it makes it very difficult because
• 55:20
  to listen to hear God's voice. God is so loving, but he's so
• 55:25
  gentle. And so he whispers.
• 55:27
  He doesn't shout. Occasionally he does.
• 55:31
  I think the recent fire, somebody's been a lot of people,
• 55:35
  but somebody just today or yesterday asked me why the
• 55:39
  fires? And I, I mean, but I, I think
• 55:42
  sometimes it's not that guy caused the fires, but he
• 55:46
  certainly allowed them to happen because he could have stopped.
• 55:49
  And he's got, but I think it's to get our attention.
• 55:52
  I think occasionally he, he says, Hey, I'm here, you know,
• 55:56
  and, and, and, and I've seen already some people kind of
• 55:59
  turning and realize that, well, maybe God is trying to say
• 56:02
  something to me, you know, but, but normally he's gentle and he
• 56:06
  whispers. But if we're so full of noise
• 56:09
  and distractions and now technology, we have screen in
• 56:13
  front of us all the time and we have our earbuds on.
• 56:16
  And, and that's why I think people find it more and more
• 56:18
  difficult to pray becomes very difficult because we're so full
• 56:23
  of noise. So I think what we need and, and
• 56:29
  the world desperately needs is to make times for silence and to
• 56:35
  exercise that being in silence. The way I, I try to help people,
• 56:41
  I tell them, hey, somehow at the beginning when they say I would
• 56:45
  like to pray and say 5 minutes a day, go to a place in silence
• 56:49
  for 5 minutes and just talk to Jesus.
• 56:54
  Just talk to him for 5 minutes. Just go no, nothing, no podcast,
• 56:59
  some prayer, none. And just, and just talk to Jesus
• 57:02
  for 5 minutes. And if you don't know what to
• 57:05
  say, just keep saying Jesus, I'm here Jesus, I'm here, Jesus, I
• 57:10
  love you for 5 minutes. That's it that'll that that's
• 57:13
  the beginning of our revolution. If everybody did that, we would
• 57:17
  change the world. It's amazing, right?
• 57:20
  And and begin that the habit of prayer.
• 57:22
  That's the way I mean, I learned it from my parents, right.
• 57:25
  But I think if all parents were to begin to teach their children
• 57:29
  slowly and, and to put more silence in their lives, then I,
• 57:34
  I one thing that I tried to help people also do, and I think it's
• 57:39
  very important is realize that, well, this is kind of how it
• 57:47
  goes. I say, hey, do you pray?
• 57:49
  And they say, oh, yeah, Father, I pray.
• 57:52
  And I said, when you pray, who do you talk to?
• 57:56
  And they always say they're surprised by the question.
• 57:59
  And they say God. And I said, really?
• 58:03
  So what do you mean? Yeah, when you pray, you talk to
• 58:05
  God. Yeah.
• 58:08
  To God who? And they're confused and I tell
• 58:12
  them, hey, God is 3 persons. We can only relate to persons,
• 58:19
  person to person. Just like I said, if I tell you,
• 58:23
  hey, do you love your family? Yes, of course I do.
• 58:26
  But that's not technically correct.
• 58:28
  You love your father, you love your mother, you love your
• 58:31
  sister, you love your brother, you love your, you know, your
• 58:34
  son, your daughter. And with each one of them, you
• 58:38
  have a personal unique relationship.
• 58:42
  You don't, I mean, I don't love my father in the same way I love
• 58:45
  my mother. I, I don't treat my mother the
• 58:47
  same way I do my sisters. I mean, my mother would kill me.
• 58:52
  But with God, it's the same. We have to learn little by
• 58:56
  little. And this is important.
• 58:58
  Hey, got the father and got the father is the father.
• 59:02
  And you look at how Jesus talks to God, the father.
• 59:05
  He calls him ABBA, which is bad. That's the way he and Jesus, if
• 59:11
  you see in the in the New Testament, the examples of how
• 59:13
  Jesus, Jesus always begins prayer by thanking his Father
• 59:18
  always thanks him and then ask or says, and, and Jesus is
• 59:22
  teaching us how to pray and, and so that's the father.
• 59:25
  And then a relationship with Jesus is not the same as with
• 59:29
  Jesus is not the Father, He's the son.
• 59:32
  And so in a way you can say he's our brother.
• 59:35
  So with Jesus, we have to to treat him like a brother and a
• 59:39
  friend. And he say I call your friends.
• 59:41
  Jesus clearly wants to have with each one of us a relationship of
• 59:45
  friendship. I mean, it's a brother who's a
• 59:47
  great friend and the Holy Spirit I think is the most difficult 1
• 59:52
  You know, it's easier to, I mean, if you've had a very
• 59:55
  loving father, it's much easier to relate to God the Father.
• 59:58
  Those who haven't had that they find more difficult.
• 1:00:01
  I think with Jesus it's the easiest because he became one of
• 1:00:04
  us and we read about him we see. Movies, the passion, the chosen,
• 1:00:08
  whatever, right the Holy Spirit is the most difficult one, I
• 1:00:12
  think, because the two images that we have scripturally for
• 1:00:16
  the Holy Spirit is a dove at the baptism and it's tough to have a
• 1:00:20
  personal relationship. I mean, a dove is basically a
• 1:00:23
  white pigeon, right? I mean, so and the other one is
• 1:00:26
  the tongues of fire, a Pentecost.
• 1:00:28
  So but I think they're what what is helpful.
• 1:00:32
  It's very, very helpful to me is to the way Jesus refers to him.
• 1:00:36
  He calls them Paracletos in Greek, right?
• 1:00:39
  Is is the the counselor, the teacher, the mentor, the coach,
• 1:00:44
  you know, and and that I think all we can relate.
• 1:00:48
  I mean, I don't know, all of us have an experience of just a
• 1:00:51
  great teacher, a mentor, a coach that and that's who he is and we
• 1:00:56
  have to relate to him that way. And so part of our growing in
• 1:01:01
  close and in intimacy with God is how do I relate and when to
• 1:01:06
  the Father? So sometimes our prayers and in
• 1:01:08
  the liturgy we do separate. Sometimes we pray to the Father,
• 1:01:12
  sometimes to the Son, sometimes to the Holy Spirit.
• 1:01:15
  And many times we put the three of them together like in the
• 1:01:20
  prayer, glory be to the Father. But I think we have to develop
• 1:01:24
  that. And, and, and then I would say
• 1:01:29
  to kind of answer your question, go from like the prayers that we
• 1:01:36
  learned when we're little, which we call them vocal prayers, you
• 1:01:39
  know, morning offering or a night prayer, the guardian Angel
• 1:01:42
  prayer, the Saint Michael prayer, which it's a great way
• 1:01:46
  to get children to start to pray, you know, repeating the
• 1:01:49
  Hail Mary and the our Father. And, and then little by little,
• 1:01:54
  go to prayer that is more meditative.
• 1:01:59
  I think a great transition is a rosary.
• 1:02:03
  You know, the rosary is a great transition because it's both
• 1:02:05
  vocal prayer. We're saying the our Father, the
• 1:02:08
  Hail Mary and the glory. But what you're doing is while
• 1:02:11
  you're saying those prayers, the prayer that Jesus taught us,
• 1:02:15
  then the Hail Mary, which is mostly scripture, and then the
• 1:02:17
  glory be. But while you're praying those
• 1:02:20
  prayers, the way the rosary structure is, you go through the
• 1:02:25
  life of Jesus, you know, and the mostly and the life of Jesus
• 1:02:31
  with Mary, but it's all of them. And and so in a way, the rosary
• 1:02:37
  is praying vocal prayers in a meditative way as you're
• 1:02:41
  considering and reflecting on the different events of the
• 1:02:45
  life, like the joyful mysteries. We reflect on the the
• 1:02:48
  Annunciation and then Mary's visitation to Elizabeth and then
• 1:02:53
  the birth of Jesus and then the presentation in the temple and
• 1:02:56
  then the finding of Jesus in the temple.
• 1:02:59
  You know, and you're meditating on the life of Christ is
• 1:03:02
  basically, I had this conversation, actually, it was
• 1:03:08
  at the live action gala, you know, after the thing and you
• 1:03:12
  know, the post gala party. I was there with two or three
• 1:03:18
  evangelical pastors who were there young fun.
• 1:03:21
  We had a great time together and one of them asked about Mary.
• 1:03:26
  What about Mary and what about the rosary?
• 1:03:29
  And so I was explaining this to him and, and I could tell you,
• 1:03:31
  I've never heard this. I mean, it's something that all
• 1:03:33
  Catholics know, right? And when I told him, listen,
• 1:03:37
  the, the rosary is a very, very profoundly Christology.
• 1:03:42
  It's all about Christ, but it's basically Mary telling you her
• 1:03:50
  recollections of the life of Jesus and Mary's whole ethos to
• 1:03:55
  her whole life is all about Jesus and he's bringing
• 1:03:58
  everybody to Jesus. So what I told him, listen, the
• 1:04:02
  this thing that you have with Mary is totally is the opposite.
• 1:04:05
  There is no more. I mean, in, in a way I would say
• 1:04:08
  Mary's the most Protestant person because it's all about
• 1:04:11
  Christ, right? And, and, and anyway, I but then
• 1:04:16
  from there you go to more contemplative prayer, which is
• 1:04:19
  that prayer that is more is the prayer of the heart is the
• 1:04:23
  prayer of the mind, where you just enter into that beautiful
• 1:04:28
  dialogue with Jesus from the heart and the mind without the
• 1:04:33
  need for. I mean, sometimes there is that
• 1:04:35
  step called lectio divina, which a lot of people use, which is
• 1:04:40
  basically you take a passage from the gospel.
• 1:04:44
  You maybe you take a word or a phrase and you just let it sink
• 1:04:48
  in, You know, and, and you, you know, you go from, from lectio
• 1:04:53
  reading to meditacio to meditating on it, You know, to
• 1:04:58
  contemplacio, you know, to, to, to contemplating.
• 1:05:01
  It's, it's a beautiful and it's a, it's a great tool for people
• 1:05:04
  who want to develop more of a, there's a nation way of prayer,
• 1:05:09
  which I think is beautiful and is very useful in this case.
• 1:05:11
  You take a passage and then you read it and then you just use
• 1:05:16
  your imagination. You put yourself in the, you
• 1:05:19
  know, to say Jesus is on the boat in the storm.
• 1:05:25
  And then you, you close your eyes and you try to see yourself
• 1:05:28
  in the boat with Jesus. And then there's the storm.
• 1:05:31
  And then Jesus comes the store or when Jesus is walking in the
• 1:05:34
  water and tells Peter come out of the boat, you know, and she's
• 1:05:37
  and Peter begins to walk on and you, you know, and, and that's
• 1:05:41
  another very beautiful way of entering into a more
• 1:05:44
  contemplative prayer. But in the end, the goal, and
• 1:05:48
  this is what up the state tries to do is that your whole day is
• 1:05:54
  a prayer that while you're working your work, you're
• 1:05:58
  turning it into prayer by the love you put into it, by the the
• 1:06:02
  fact that you're doing it to love God and to love others.
• 1:06:07
  And, and you can do it in a very contemplative St.
• 1:06:10
  Jesus next to you as you do your work.
• 1:06:14
  You know, I always stay a lot of moms who stay home, choose to
• 1:06:18
  stay home with their children and, and typical, and I talk to
• 1:06:23
  hundreds of moms a week. I mean, it's very challenging.
• 1:06:27
  Sometimes they just pulling their hair out because the kids
• 1:06:29
  and this and that. And, and they can, you know, one
• 1:06:32
  of the most typical things they, they confess is impatience and
• 1:06:35
  yelling and which I think is very charming.
• 1:06:38
  But but but I always tell them hey.
• 1:06:41
  Feel like that's at the top of my list.
• 1:06:43
  For every confession I go to with you is like I was impatient
• 1:06:46
  five times or whatever it is. I always tell them, hey, hey,
• 1:06:51
  your problem is not impatience, although you may be impatient.
• 1:06:54
  Your problem is that you forget that God is there with you.
• 1:07:00
  If if you wouldn't, if you were more prayerful, if you were more
• 1:07:03
  aware. And I always tell them, Hey,
• 1:07:05
  imagine that Jesus or Mary. I often with moms, I say, Mary,
• 1:07:09
  imagine that Mary says, Hey, I'm can I stay with you for a couple
• 1:07:13
  of weeks? I'll help you with things.
• 1:07:15
  And Mary's living with you in the house.
• 1:07:17
  Do you think you will be yelling at your kids?
• 1:07:20
  And they always say no. Well, she's just.
• 1:07:22
  Hand Mary the baby. She's there, Jesus is there with
• 1:07:26
  you. You just you forget, but that's
• 1:07:30
  why I'm the same at work. You think you're going to yell
• 1:07:32
  at your employee or you're going to be upset with Jesus is there
• 1:07:36
  with you. And this is one of the reasons
• 1:07:40
  why, you know, when you think about why would God decide to
• 1:07:44
  enter into the world that he created by incarnated by the
• 1:07:51
  incarnation, becoming a little baby and be born like all of us
• 1:07:55
  are. And then, you know, go through,
• 1:07:59
  you know, adolescence and this and then get a job.
• 1:08:02
  And I mean that 30 out of his 33 years, Jesus did what all of us
• 1:08:10
  do. It was a totally normal life.
• 1:08:13
  Why, why, why did he just appear as a 30 year old and really get
• 1:08:18
  to the business? I think God is telling us
• 1:08:21
  something that is so profound and important.
• 1:08:24
  What he's saying is all that you do can be divine.
• 1:08:27
  I did it. I came to redeem everything.
• 1:08:29
  Your family and your work is something that is truly divine
• 1:08:33
  and can be turned into a prayer the same way I did to say, you
• 1:08:38
  know, that's kind of and that's in a way is the core teaching of
• 1:08:42
  of Opus stay in San Jose. Maria is that everything that we
• 1:08:45
  do can be turned into prayer can be divine.
• 1:08:49
  It depends on the love that you put into it and how well you do
• 1:08:53
  it and the reason why you do it, which is I don't love for God
• 1:08:56
  and I don't love for family and friends.
• 1:09:01
  You cannot do that if you don't have those times devoted just to
• 1:09:05
  be with God. You can, you'll remember that
• 1:09:08
  Jesus is with you. You'll be able to do your work
• 1:09:11
  the same way Jesus work. If you have times that you
• 1:09:16
  devote just for God, for prayer. That's the genius of the plan of
• 1:09:20
  life. It, it, it, it teaches you,
• 1:09:23
  allows you to develop these moments with God.
• 1:09:26
  So then everything that you do is prayer.
• 1:09:30
  So you don't have like most people do.
• 1:09:32
  Sunday is a day for God and then the rest of the week you do the
• 1:09:35
  rest of the stuff. I see there were totally
• 1:09:38
  separate things. It's crazy.
• 1:09:41
  It's everything is God and everything is an opportunity to
• 1:09:45
  love him. So everything can be turned into
• 1:09:47
  prayer. I think it's beautiful.
• 1:09:49
  I I think it it just changes the way you so there's nothing that
• 1:09:53
  is boring or tedious. You know, everything is, Hey,
• 1:09:57
  I'm loving God by cleaning the toilet.
• 1:10:00
  I'm loving God by, you know, giving the kids a bath.
• 1:10:03
  I'm loving God by doing the dishes or whatever people do,
• 1:10:08
  you know. What do you say to them,
• 1:10:11
  especially the mom who is, you know, maybe it's a dealing with
• 1:10:16
  sleepless nights or sick kids or, you know, lots of pent up
• 1:10:22
  energy. It's raining a lot.
• 1:10:23
  They're not going outside. It's very difficult to carve out
• 1:10:26
  that time. It can feel very difficult to
• 1:10:28
  carve out that time to even make it to Mass or to, you know, have
• 1:10:31
  a moment of silence, a moment to oneself.
• 1:10:33
  I can hardly shower by myself. How but can I have a moment to
• 1:10:35
  pray by myself? How would you?
• 1:10:38
  And then there's also the sense of I'm missing out on my prayer.
• 1:10:41
  I need to pray. I I want to get closer to God,
• 1:10:43
  But look, I'm so far and I'm getting impatient and you know,
• 1:10:46
  the, the, the you've heard this a million times from moms.
• 1:10:49
  What do you say? What would?
• 1:10:50
  You say to them at first I would give them hope and say hey I
• 1:10:54
  know to you it feels that way right now but it can be done
• 1:10:58
  because there's plenty of moms who do that.
• 1:11:01
  You know? My mom dated with 9 kids and
• 1:11:03
  she's no Wonder Woman. She's normal, but the first is
• 1:11:06
  that it can be done. You cannot do that overnight.
• 1:11:09
  But to start little by little, you know, have those 5 minutes
• 1:11:13
  with Jesus. You know, I mean doing a morning
• 1:11:16
  offering that's it takes 20 seconds.
• 1:11:20
  Praying three Hail Marys at night before you go to bed takes
• 1:11:22
  30 seconds. And then doing a little bit time
• 1:11:28
  of reading of of the scriptures. I can't do 5 minutes when try,
• 1:11:35
  you'll find that there will be a moment.
• 1:11:37
  It's it's just the trying and the thing ultimately all of
• 1:11:41
  those things. The goal is not to do all this
• 1:11:43
  stuff. The goal is to love God with all
• 1:11:45
  your heart. These are means they're not the
• 1:11:47
  end is I want to I want to love God with all my heart and the
• 1:11:52
  love is in the trying is when you try when you keep trying
• 1:11:56
  because you want to give God that time.
• 1:11:58
  You want to give it to him. It can be done.
• 1:12:01
  I mean, just start little by little and then talk to other
• 1:12:04
  women who do it. You know, it's funny, even with
• 1:12:07
  with young women, this happens all the time.
• 1:12:11
  OK, I try to get them to hey, start go to daily Mass.
• 1:12:17
  Oh, I can't I don't have any time.
• 1:12:18
  So yeah, you've really you're not married.
• 1:12:21
  You don't have kids. Come on.
• 1:12:23
  No, but I'm so busy or I try to tell them to do some
• 1:12:26
  contemplative mental prayers say come on, 5-10 minutes with
• 1:12:30
  Jesus. Come on.
• 1:12:31
  I so hard and then all of a sudden they meet somebody and
• 1:12:37
  then they come next time they come.
• 1:12:39
  Oh, I met somebody. Father, look, I he's great.
• 1:12:42
  And so really. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:12:44
  And we're spending all this time together.
• 1:12:46
  And then I go, oh, wow. And I tell him, hey, I thought
• 1:12:49
  you didn't have any time. And they always say, well, but
• 1:12:52
  this is different. I said, OK, that's it.
• 1:12:54
  Why it's different. You have time for this boy, but
• 1:12:58
  you don't have time for Jesus. What what's going on?
• 1:13:03
  I mean, you have time for the things that you or the people
• 1:13:06
  that you really, really think they're important.
• 1:13:09
  And it's not a my kids or Christ.
• 1:13:13
  It's both. And if I taking care of your
• 1:13:15
  kids is taking care of Jesus too?
• 1:13:17
  This is why we love you, Father Luke.
• 1:13:19
  It's like the the secret assassin that it's like the
• 1:13:21
  gentle, nice Father Luke. And then it's like you have time
• 1:13:26
  for the guy. Why didn't you have time for
• 1:13:28
  Jesus in such a nice way? But you it's the tough love
• 1:13:31
  because we it's true. What you're saying is true.
• 1:13:36
  So that's why I would say to those moms that you were asking,
• 1:13:39
  hey, it can be done. Start little by little, but and
• 1:13:43
  try make the effort and it's not going to work every time.
• 1:13:48
  No, I mean, I, I, one of the things that I, I, I tell a lot
• 1:13:51
  of moms when they're, I take advantage when you're nursing,
• 1:13:54
  that could be your time for the scripture reading or your
• 1:13:56
  rosary, you know, and take advantage of things.
• 1:14:00
  I remember, I mean, I learned to pray the rosary because on
• 1:14:04
  weekends when I was home, my mom very often would say, Hey, who
• 1:14:08
  can help me fold laundry? And I love mom.
• 1:14:12
  And very often I volunteer because I love being with her.
• 1:14:15
  I mean, I was the one who spent a lot of time with her in the
• 1:14:17
  kitchen. I just love being with my mom.
• 1:14:19
  And so my mom would say, OK, where we fall, we're going to
• 1:14:22
  pray the rosary. And it was great.
• 1:14:23
  We were folding and Holy Mary, Mother of God, our Father, you
• 1:14:27
  know, and because my mom realized this is the only time
• 1:14:30
  I'm going to be able to do it today, you know, and The
• 1:14:32
  Saturdays were crazy because we were all there and how.
• 1:14:35
  Old Would you be folding with her and praying the rosary?
• 1:14:37
  I don't know. I was 567, you know, and, and we
• 1:14:41
  did it a lot and definitely every time we were in the car,
• 1:14:46
  always would offer, I mean, hey, who wants to pray the rosary?
• 1:14:50
  It was always, it was a mandatory, hey, if you don't
• 1:14:52
  want to pray, that's OK. Just be quiet.
• 1:14:54
  Was always that big, big emphasis on freedom.
• 1:14:58
  But my parents would or my mom would if she was alone in the
• 1:15:00
  car because I realized, hey, this is going to be my best
• 1:15:03
  moment to pray the rosary. Or sometimes my dad when we were
• 1:15:07
  traveling, his meditative prayer, mental prayer, he would
• 1:15:11
  always say, kids, Daddy's going to pray if you don't mind, be
• 1:15:14
  quiet. And can somebody read for me?
• 1:15:18
  And we will get the New Testament or a copy of San Jose
• 1:15:21
  Maria as the way he has this little pithy points that you can
• 1:15:23
  use for prayer to help you. And he would ask for a volunteer
• 1:15:27
  because he was driving. And so we would read.
• 1:15:30
  And that's how I learned to do meditative prayer because I
• 1:15:33
  would or one of my siblings would read for Dad and we were
• 1:15:36
  quiet. We wanted to be respectful, you
• 1:15:38
  know, at first, but we got used to the, the silence, you know,
• 1:15:43
  and, and so we kind of grew with it because our parents were
• 1:15:47
  doing it, you know, and I think this is one of the things that
• 1:15:50
  parents and the moms that you were asking realize first of
• 1:15:54
  all, you cannot give what you don't have.
• 1:15:55
  If you want your children to love God, to love Jesus, you
• 1:16:00
  have to love and then realize that all of those things that
• 1:16:05
  it's not just for you, but it's also for them.
• 1:16:07
  You're teaching them. Don't force them, but if they
• 1:16:11
  see you do it and you invite them, I mean, little kids love.
• 1:16:14
  I mean, they're going to pray, of course.
• 1:16:15
  I mean, most of the time, not always.
• 1:16:17
  Sometimes they're in a bed, you know, but you know better.
• 1:16:20
  Sometimes parents don't realize, wow, you could do a lot with
• 1:16:24
  your children. You could teach them a lot.
• 1:16:26
  Don't don't forget, you know, and it's basically mostly your
• 1:16:30
  witness and your example. If they see you doing and doing
• 1:16:32
  it and doing it and like, oh, OK, you know, without forcing.
• 1:16:38
  I wouldn't force a battle I have with some mothers more than
• 1:16:42
  fathers. No, they gotta say no, don't
• 1:16:44
  force them. Invite make it, you know, but
• 1:16:48
  don't force, you know, say I don't want to do the night
• 1:16:51
  prayers. OK, You don't want to love God
• 1:16:53
  today, but God is going to be sad because you're not loving
• 1:16:57
  and you know Mary's going to be sad because they love you but
• 1:17:02
  and then they'll come back. But they they feel is what you
• 1:17:06
  want is that it comes from inside.
• 1:17:08
  It's not that you're forcing them, that they say.
• 1:17:11
  But if they say I don't want to go to mass.
• 1:17:13
  I would say the same thing. Really.
• 1:17:15
  Yeah, what if it's your five year old?
• 1:17:19
  The five year old is different and that's chilly, right?
• 1:17:21
  But when they start, when they start having more of a sense of
• 1:17:24
  thing, I, I would take advantage of that moment to engage them.
• 1:17:29
  So, OK, why not? So they say that you're taking
• 1:17:31
  them seriously. OK, why don't you want to go to
• 1:17:34
  Mass? I don't want to go to Mass
• 1:17:37
  because it's boring. OK, That's an opportunity to
• 1:17:40
  explain. OK, why is it boring?
• 1:17:42
  Well, because the priest always says this, OK, do we go to Mass
• 1:17:46
  for just for the sermon, you think?
• 1:17:48
  And then you get an opportunity. And then when you explain to
• 1:17:51
  them that the Mass is basically being there to be at Calvary,
• 1:17:55
  it's the Mass is bringing the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross
• 1:17:59
  to the present. So that the Mass is basically
• 1:18:04
  seeing being with Jesus as he's dying for you.
• 1:18:07
  Why wouldn't you want, I mean, Jesus is dying for you so you
• 1:18:10
  can go to heaven. Don't you want to be there with
• 1:18:12
  him and to, to you know, Jesus wants to come to you because he
• 1:18:16
  loves you. Don't you want to receive the
• 1:18:19
  Eucharist so Jesus can come into you and be close to your heart?
• 1:18:22
  And I think these are all opportunities to teach and to
• 1:18:25
  give them reasons based on love for them to go.
• 1:18:29
  And this tells that, well, I still don't want to go.
• 1:18:31
  OK, It's you have to play the long game.
• 1:18:37
  You know, we can't. You cannot force somebody to
• 1:18:40
  love. They have to want it.
• 1:18:42
  I think most of the time when you explain, they'll call.
• 1:18:46
  I think it's later in the teenage years where they get
• 1:18:49
  more rebellious in a stronger way.
• 1:18:52
  And those are more tricky, you know, the 16/17/18 and.
• 1:18:57
  And if they don't want to go to Mass, I wouldn't force them.
• 1:19:01
  I would try to give them good reasons.
• 1:19:03
  To me, the nuclear option for parents would be to say, OK, you
• 1:19:07
  don't have to. Can I ask you for a favor?
• 1:19:10
  Yeah, for the sake of your younger siblings, if they are
• 1:19:13
  younger siblings, because they don't understand, they don't
• 1:19:17
  have, if you refuse to go to mass, it's going to confuse
• 1:19:21
  them. They're going to feel confused.
• 1:19:23
  This would you just for their sake and our sake as parents,
• 1:19:27
  could you just call for that reason?
• 1:19:30
  And I, I've never seen it not work because again, in the end,
• 1:19:35
  you're given the reasons of love, love, you have to, I don't
• 1:19:40
  think that's helpful. I don't think parents should use
• 1:19:42
  that. You have to, you don't have to
• 1:19:44
  do anything. You have to want to.
• 1:19:47
  And for that, they need to understand the reasons why,
• 1:19:52
  because it's going to be love. It's, it's kind of.
• 1:19:54
  And and so that when they go to college, they'll continue to go.
• 1:19:57
  These parents will force some push and then they're shocked
• 1:20:00
  when their kids go to college and they stop.
• 1:20:03
  Yeah, you force them the whole way.
• 1:20:05
  It didn't, it wasn't coming from inside.
• 1:20:08
  They have to want it. And you're it's the most
• 1:20:11
  difficult task for parents is to inspire their children to want
• 1:20:18
  to love God, to inspire their children to want to be Saints,
• 1:20:22
  to inspire their children to want to do great things for God
• 1:20:26
  because they want to and they want to because they understand
• 1:20:29
  why this is worth it. You know, and, and the parents
• 1:20:33
  inspire them first by their witness and then teaching them,
• 1:20:37
  give them good reasons, things to read, suggesting, you know,
• 1:20:42
  being surrounded by other families who are doing the same
• 1:20:44
  thing so that they'll have kids their age doing it too, you
• 1:20:49
  know, and that's very, you know, I, I'll tell you, it's just a, a
• 1:20:55
  beautiful thing. And now looking back, I'm a
• 1:20:57
  little embarrassed to tell you this, but I'm going to tell you
• 1:21:00
  when I was a freshman in high school, some of my best friends,
• 1:21:05
  it was 5-6 of us. We live in the same, most of us
• 1:21:09
  in the same St. same neighborhood.
• 1:21:12
  And we went on an upstate retreat.
• 1:21:15
  My first retreat ever was little gentle for me and we were 14
• 1:21:20
  years old. And I remember after the
• 1:21:23
  retreat, the five of us talking and and we're still super close,
• 1:21:29
  four of us especially, but we decided that we were going to
• 1:21:33
  start going to daily mass. We had to go to daily Mass and
• 1:21:38
  that was hard because the only daily mass we could go to
• 1:21:41
  because of the school, the bus route and all of that was six,
• 1:21:44
  6:15 AM. So and the first day four of us
• 1:21:50
  went and one of our friends didn't make it and he was so
• 1:21:54
  down. And I remember after school he
• 1:21:56
  was, oh, I betrayed you guys. And oh, Rafa, don't worry, you
• 1:22:00
  can do it. The next day he missed again and
• 1:22:03
  he was so down well and how and and he felt really bad and we
• 1:22:08
  were trying to be very encouraging.
• 1:22:11
  And so the third day he missed again the Wednesday.
• 1:22:14
  And so I was talking to him and then he came and say, listen, I
• 1:22:19
  need your help. They have a whatever, what do
• 1:22:22
  you need? I cannot do it on my own.
• 1:22:24
  I just can't. So I thought of an idea, but I,
• 1:22:28
  I, you think you put you kind of think I'm crazy, but I think
• 1:22:31
  it's going to work and say, OK, what is it?
• 1:22:33
  I was very intrigued. He lived down the street from me
• 1:22:36
  in this kind of very fancy apartment building and and he
• 1:22:42
  said, well, in my room, he lived on a second floor and his room
• 1:22:46
  kind of overlooked at the swimming pool in the And he
• 1:22:50
  says, when I go to bed, I'm going to tie the little string
• 1:22:53
  around my big toe and I'm going to put it all the way down the
• 1:22:57
  window to to, you know, And so if this.
• 1:23:00
  Is before cell phones. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:23:02
  I mean, this is way before there was no Internet.
• 1:23:05
  This is 19808081. Whenever it was, I was a
• 1:23:11
  freshman and and you know, and you just come here, come, you
• 1:23:16
  have to get up a little earlier to get me and just pull that
• 1:23:19
  string. So he left the window open.
• 1:23:21
  He left the window the. String hanging down the second
• 1:23:23
  story and you're going to come down.
• 1:23:25
  And, and so, and I, I remember telling him that Rafa, that's
• 1:23:28
  insane. So yeah, what if some lady comes
• 1:23:30
  to walk the dog early in the morning as this is the string?
• 1:23:33
  So. So I'm, I'm OK with that.
• 1:23:36
  And I went the next morning. I remember jumping this pretty
• 1:23:39
  sophisticated fence. I mean, I thought maybe it was
• 1:23:41
  electrocuted, you know, that was electric, but I went and there
• 1:23:45
  was this string coming down from his window.
• 1:23:47
  So I pulled and he came out. He said wait for me.
• 1:23:50
  And so we got on our bikes and we went to mass and I did it the
• 1:23:53
  next day and after that he got going.
• 1:23:57
  All he needed was just that do it a couple of times, right?
• 1:24:01
  But that happened because we were friends and our families
• 1:24:07
  where you know, and that support and thing was was wonderful.
• 1:24:11
  You know, I mean, that's kind of so I think this is one of the
• 1:24:17
  things that parents need to think about.
• 1:24:21
  Who are you at the school you send your children to?
• 1:24:25
  What are these other families that you want them to because
• 1:24:29
  their children and your children, if they become
• 1:24:31
  friends, they're going to help and support one another.
• 1:24:34
  I mean, look how wonderful thing there was.
• 1:24:36
  We're great friends. He can ask me, hey, pull the
• 1:24:38
  string so we can go to daily mass.
• 1:24:40
  You know, I think back on it now.
• 1:24:43
  I think that was nuts, you know, but it was beautiful.
• 1:24:46
  And I would still talk and laugh about it and, you know, many
• 1:24:48
  years later. And, yeah, I just.
• 1:24:54
  I don't know how we got into this Lila but.
• 1:24:56
  That's a good, I mean, well, it it reminding me of we're talking
• 1:24:59
  about the moms having trouble praying, but you got to do it as
• 1:25:02
  a team, like being on a team where you're like we're we're,
• 1:25:06
  we're we want to let's, let's do daily mass.
• 1:25:09
  Did you do daily mass today? How are you doing with your
• 1:25:11
  daily mass? What are your struggles?
• 1:25:12
  Having someone help you out like another person that is on the
• 1:25:16
  same driving towards the same thing.
• 1:25:18
  It makes such a big difference. Oh yeah, and and that's why
• 1:25:21
  Jesus found at the church. He didn't give us a book and
• 1:25:23
  said follow it. We need each other.
• 1:25:25
  We needed we were made to be with each other.
• 1:25:27
  And that's why you have family and then you have extended
• 1:25:29
  family and friends because we, we cannot do this alone.
• 1:25:33
  We were not made to do it alone. That's why Jesus always sends 2
• 1:25:37
  by twos. He doesn't send one alone.
• 1:25:40
  So as you lean on each other and, and that's that's why we
• 1:25:43
  have the church and that we have the Paris, the communities, you
• 1:25:47
  know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:25:49
  This has been so rich and wonderful.
• 1:25:51
  I wanted to ask you, besides Holy Scripture, what would you
• 1:25:56
  say is the this is the book you just would recommend if you had
• 1:25:59
  to just recommend one other book for spiritual reading, for
• 1:26:02
  getting deeper in the faith, for developing prayer?
• 1:26:05
  You know, I don't think there is the one book because it depends
• 1:26:09
  on your age situation in life. But if I have to recommend one
• 1:26:14
  book just to to pray and to learn to pray, I would recommend
• 1:26:21
  San Jose Marias the Way. I was hoping you would recommend
• 1:26:26
  the way. Or one of the it's very close to
• 1:26:29
  my heart. I learned to pray with it.
• 1:26:33
  Maybe that's the one I would I would recommend.
• 1:26:35
  I mean, the classics are the classics, right?
• 1:26:38
  And, and sometimes they are not so easy.
• 1:26:40
  I mean, Saint John of the Cross, Saint Teresa of Avila or Saint
• 1:26:44
  Ignatius, San Francis, the sales, they're there.
• 1:26:48
  They're there. I mean, I, I'm a huge fan of San
• 1:26:51
  Agustin's Confessions. I mean, that book made a huge
• 1:26:53
  difference to me, right? But one book, I mean, because it
• 1:26:58
  was so influential for me, maybe that's the one I would
• 1:27:00
  recommend. And then, Father Luke, where can
• 1:27:03
  people find the way? And are there, are there
• 1:27:07
  resources online that you can point people to to discover more
• 1:27:11
  deeply the formation activities of the work?
• 1:27:13
  I I would just the opposite web page is great.
• 1:27:17
  It's it's very easy to navigate. It's got so much content.
• 1:27:22
  Yeah, that's what I would say. People, if you go there, you can
• 1:27:25
  find all the resources, all the things not just about upstate,
• 1:27:29
  but also the church in general. I mean, even do you want to know
• 1:27:31
  what Pope Francis or any Pope really is saying?
• 1:27:35
  I mean, now Pope Francis, it's all in there.
• 1:27:37
  It's very, it's, it's wonderful. It's it's just loaded with
• 1:27:40
  including books and things that you can.
• 1:27:42
  Free. You can read the way for free
• 1:27:44
  right on the What is that website.
• 1:27:46
  It's called upstate.org. Easy, yeah.
• 1:27:50
  Father Luke, thank you. You're.
• 1:27:51
  Welcome. We're so grateful for you, you
• 1:27:53
  blessed. And helped me and my family so
• 1:27:54
  much and so many friends and so many people all over really the
• 1:27:58
  world. So thank you so much.
• 1:27:59
  This has been lovely. A huge thank you to our partner.
• 1:28:02
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• 1:28:07
  millions of people with the truth of the faith,
• 1:28:10
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