Latest / The Good Builder Podcast / The Daily Dose #312 | Building homes like cars: Pryda's Truss House, with Adam Dawson from Pryda
Transcript
- Aaron Ng (00:00) Now, before I get into it, a big shout out to the legends at my construct. If you're still managing your jobs, contracts, client comms across text messaging and spreadsheets, there is a better way. My construct is built by Australian builders for Australian builders. And it is the best platform out there as a construction software. Jake and the team are working on some really exciting stuff that we've got to have a sneak peek at. But go and check them out. is myconstruct.com. You can get a 30 day trial and the guys there are absolute legends and they're taking the Australian building industry by storm. So go and check out their platform. They are very, very cool. And thank you once again, MyConstruct for being the proud sponsors of this podcast. Az (00:59) Good morning and welcome to the Good Builder Podcast. Today's episode is about a question every builder is up against right now. How do you build more homes? Faster without dropping quality or blowing the margin. And I had a little bit of a discussion around this with the gentleman I'm about to welcome. And he has some fascinating thoughts and is doing some fascinating things in Australia and New Zealand. I actually feel like I know this gentleman. And our guest is Adam Dawson. He's an engineering and builder solutions manager at Pryda and chartered engineer. With a long background in timber building systems. Pryda has been a fixture on Australian sites and in the offices of engineers and designers for decades. And Adam sits at the technical heart of it all. The conversation is built around Truss House, Pryda's new framing system. But the bigger idea is the one that I want you all out there to listen for. Adam argues that industry is held back because it treats every home as a one-off project. He makes the case for a shift towards building in systems with product-based designs rather than project-based ones. Today we're going to get into all of that. what it actually means for a builder, the stuff that Adam's been up to. And to be honest with you, out there, with our little discussion that we had before, I said to Adam, I totally agree with where his head is at. And it is an absolute pleasure to welcome to the couch. Adam, how are you, mate? Adam Dawson (02:29) Thank you. I'm good. I'm thoroughly looking forward to the conversation. Az (02:33) excellent, mate. Well, first of all, it was lovely to meet you at the FTMA conference. I, you know, when I when I met you there, and that's what I was sort of saying, I felt like we know each other. You seem like you have a very similar ideology to what we have at the Good Builder here, trying to find better ways to build and better ways to provide a better product and and as we said, faster and more efficiently. But Mate, could you tell a a little bit about the story behind yourself, Adam, how you came into the industry and and what you do at Prida? Adam Dawson (03:01) Yeah, so I'm a consulting structural engineer by background, probably been in the game for about 20 years. And I've touched a little bit of everything. So I started out in the big, you know, mining and industrial oil and gas type projects. So big steel and big concrete. I specialized in thin-walled steel structures and water tanks for a bit. spent some time working on site in Papua New Guinea, which was good fun. I got into precast concrete for a few years and then Az (03:26) Wow. Adam Dawson (03:26) had an opportunity in twenty twenty to come across to Pryda, learn about timber engineering, and I've been there ever since. I'm told that once you get into Frame and Trust, that's it. You stay there for life and I'm still here. Az (03:36) Awesome. Awesome. Well, everybody knows like a a lot of the builders out there know the name Prater, but they don't know too much beyond that. What what do you guys do there? And and I'd love to just maybe we'll quickly start to touch on Truss House and what you're building out there, Adam, because I think it's It's pretty special, mate, and I'm not putting any pressure on you and I'm sorry for this comment, but I reckon you almost have the answer to the housing crisis. What you know what we were talking about before I th I love your thinking. And I was waiting for a guest that could talk to this, because I think we Adam Dawson (04:00) Yeah. Az (04:13) The way I see it, Adam, not your opinion. I see in the industry that we keep talking about these issues, but we keep doing the same old thing, which is like madness, you know? Isn't that the same? You kinda did the same thing over and over and you're going crazy or something like that, mate. Adam Dawson (04:27) That's that's it. I mean, we've there've been some big targets and a lot of talk about accelerating housing supply and and hitting that. And then I think those in the know looked at that and said, Well, if we keep doing the same thing, we're gonna get the same outcome, not that outcome. And sure enough the data is playing out there. So we definitely need to do something different. and yeah, I mean we'll we'll get to it. But we did put a bit of a promotion out recently where we we posed the question, is this the system that solves everything? And Az (04:43) Yes. wow. Adam Dawson (04:53) It's I'm sure I'll get some blowback on that and some challenge, but I do believe that you know, through the thinking and the work that we've done, we've solved a lot of the key problems that are facing housing supply and building. So we'll get to that. But yeah, I think you asked about Prider. I mean, to be honest, I'm happy when a builder knows Prider because a lot of what we do is in the background and you might see it on boxes on a hardware store. Shelves, you might the screws or the fastness or the brackets and the bracing. The main thing that we do are the nail plates that hold trusses together. And it's actually been probably my mission in this role to make a builder care about whose name is on those nail plates. Because for the most part, I don't think they do. It's become a commodity product, and you just ring up your favorite supplier or your favorite couple of suppliers and get some quotes and you pick the one that you're most comfortable with or gives you the best deal. So I think when you look at the prior business. Az (05:40) Yeah. Adam Dawson (05:42) Like you mentioned, I it's got decades of history, 60 years we celebrated last year, which was fantastic. And in one way, it's an incredibly simple business. A nail plate is just a bit of coiled steel that you punch some spikes through and then you press it into timber to connect it. the other angle is it's an incredibly complex business because the the system that goes into that, which is I mean, you know, you're not just a component supplier and a manufacturer, you're also a software business, you're also an engineering business. Az (05:46) Yeah, wow. Adam Dawson (06:08) And all of those different pieces touch each other and talk to each other in all sorts of different ways. And you can't do one thing without impacting another five different parts of the business and the system. So that's my I mean my role has the technical oversight of the product itself and making sure that it's compliant, it does what it says on the box, nothing's gonna fall down. But really what I spend most of my time kind of waking up and thinking about is that overall building system and Where can we contribute? And we're quite unique, I think, when you partner Parada with a frame and trust plant, which is the physical manufacturing. We're sort of at this really interesting nexus in the whole process because we reach all the way back to the architectural design and the council approvals and the permits, all the way through to the structural engineering design, turning that into physical components, shipping that to site, the construction process, and then obviously everything else that gets attached to that core structural frame. Az (06:56) Wow. Adam Dawson (07:01) So we're sort of right in the middle and we can reach forward and back almost through the entire build process. Az (07:06) Wow. Wow. So you see, and that is the reason why you guys have have ventured into having a look at new products and initiatives to build faster. Is is that because you've got that entire project view, Adam? I I actually didn't realize, mate, that you were that deep and that further ahead of ⁓ because I'm trying to piece it all together in my head and the reason we've got you on here, I was like, heh. Adam Dawson (07:21) Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Az (07:32) 'Cause I I I love what you're doing, like we'll we'll get into it. I want you to tell the story, not me. But I was like, okay. Yeah, because I kind of associated you with the nail plates and the and the different bits of hardware and things like that. But that's fascinating. So Adam Dawson (07:42) Mm-hmm. I think it's the trend in the building industry that more and more we're relying on specialized suppliers to fill in some of the gaps and some of the capability. I think it's it's fair to say that the bygone eras of trades and builders who are quite sophisticated and hands-on, and you had these multi-skilled builders that you know, you could take the timber framing code and you could drop some packs of timber on site, and then with the code and with a sawhorse Az (07:50) Okay. Adam Dawson (08:13) and a good crew, you could build an entire home. You didn't even need an engineer. And I think that era is declining. I think it's harder and harder to upskill trades and get people that have that sort of multi skill ability. And so I I think it's important the the role that we play as as suppliers who have some expertise is okay, how do we solve that and pr pr provide those different inputs and solve that complexity, take it out of the building site, solve it and then simplify and make that housing possible. Az (08:15) Yeah. Absolutely. Yep. Yeah, wow. Well, one of the things that you're looking to solve or not not looking to solve, sorry, I'm now putting it all on your shoulders, Adam. But one of the real constraints and things that we are looking to solve as an industry, together with, you know, a legends like yourself, Adam, at at Prada, is how many homes we can actually physically produce. and you touched on it earlier in the podcast. But before we get into like the product and trust house and all those things that you're sort of doing. Adam Dawson (08:45) Ha ha ha. Az (09:05) where do you see the biggest bottlenecks t to building the number of homes we're trying to build and and speeding up and being more efficient as an industry? and and where are we making it worse right now, Adam? From what you're saying? Adam Dawson (09:16) Yeah, I think when you map out that entire building process from the first idea of what a client might want through to the final finished home, it's gotten so compartmentalised and so fragmented. You've got so many people that are involved and everyone's doing a good job of their little piece of it, but we've split it out so much that it makes it very hard to innovate because you can innovate in one part of that system and maybe you can get it one task done half a day quicker. But that's not going solve the problem. That's not going to suddenly get us thousands more homes built. And so there is a need to innovate at a whole system level, which is very hard to do because now you're talking about trades doing things differently, about engineers doing things differently, about linking them in different ways and maybe even taking some people out of the process. And so that's always hard when people who were involved are suddenly on the sidelines, they're not going to be supported with that. So Az (10:01) Yeah, wow. Adam Dawson (10:06) that driving that change is difficult. And I think what drives it for us, you know, we see a lot of drawings come through my team. So we are at that hub and I you always see this phrase by others. And there's so many things that are done by others. And every time we see that phrase, that's that's another interface. That's another pieces of information that need to flow back and forth. Those people are probably not working together. Az (10:18) Yeah. Well. Adam Dawson (10:30) And they're pushing that complexity onto others to solve. And all of that then trickles down and you finally get to site and go, okay, how are we going build this thing? And we're making do. And maybe that means we're reworking and going back. And again, you end up with this spaghetti diagram. If you actually mapped the flow of information and tasks and who's talking to who and solving what problem end to end, you sort of stand back and go, this is an absolute mess. How do we get anything built? Az (10:30) Yeah. Yeah. Very interesting. You know what I love, Adam? I actually love that you're an engineer and you're looking at this whole sort of construction process. I think it needs it. When you were speaking then, it was interesting, mate. It it put hairs on the back of my neck because I just had a chat with an architect here in Southeast Queensland. And even she was saying to me that. You know, sometimes the builders aren't involved in the architectural process to begin with, and then the architect hands over the plans to the builders, and then they're not in it, and they'll get to sight going, How the hell do we build this? And I said to her, and and to what you your point actually, Adam, and I said to her, and I I'm trying to piece this whole industry together, what makes a good builder, as you know, and we're trying to discover great systems and people like you that can help the industry. And I tell you what. Adam Dawson (11:26) Mm-hmm. Mm. Az (11:40) I reckon we are almost our own worst enemy in that way and the way that we're currently doing it in these siloed approaches. And I think all in the end, I had a look at statistics of why builders leave the industry and there's insolvencies and all this thing, but a fair majority of them just leave because they're fed up and stressed out. And I reckon it's because of all that stuff. I know I'm not being technical here because I'm, you know, not as smart or as intelligent as you, Adam. But you know, when you when you think about all those things and the way we're currently doing it, because we keep doing the same thing, we keep getting the same result of stressed out builders who are trying to figure out how to build things because not everyone's included in the process, like you said. And it's really interesting. And i I I love I I would have loved to have spoken to you earlier, but I think the timing's really right because we're kind of Adam Dawson (12:02) Mm. Az (12:26) We're hearing that from a lot of the industry now. They're kind of going, they're now starting to go, we need to work closer together. We need to look at a different process. We need to look at all this stuff. And it's just fascinating that you're looking at it, you know, holistically like you are. The other thing I wanted to say, Adam, was number one, you remind me a bit like Elon Musk, and I love it. I love that bloke. I I I I don't always love his, you know, I I I will I don't Adam Dawson (12:44) Ha ha ha. Az (12:48) love his views sometimes and stuff, but I love the bloke for the logical way he thinks. And if you look at car manufacturing and when he was making Tesla and how he was looking at it holistic engineering and how do we make componentry easier and quicker and more efficient, it reminds me of what you're doing. I think, but I don't know, because I don't know exactly what you're doing. But is that what you kind of say like why are car manufacturing going ahead and we're doing things differently? Housing's one that we just haven't even touched. So bizarre. Adam Dawson (13:15) Yeah, I think I think there's something to that. I mean, for me that's always been my strength, I think, across all the different things that I've done is just this ability to look at this all the mess and all the complexity that's going on and find the threads and find the patterns and see see how that boils down to a system that can work. And maybe it's the same sort of thinking whether you're you're trying to manufacture cars or you're trying to manufacture rockets and get them to go up and then land again in the same spot. Az (13:22) Yeah. I love it. Yep. Yeah. I love it. I and that's what you remind me of, Adam Mike. I I and I think we need people like you in this industry because you are completely right. Even from lots of different perspectives in this industry, there's lots of people doing lots of individual different little things. That aren't doing anything to the complete picture of building and the industry, whether it be bettering, I know this is gonna sound controversial, but women in construction and we've got a thousand women in construction groups, or whether it be, you know, hardware and software engineers and things like that building all these little things when they're just looking at their little patch. I think it's I I love. Adam Dawson (13:57) Mm. Az (14:16) That you at Prider and what you are doing, you are the first guest that is looking at it holistically. I freaking love it. I want someone to do it. Hey. So sorry, I just had to say that Adam. I just freaking love it, man. Adam Dawson (14:26) Hmm. Well, I mean, like to your point, it's the only way that we're going to get a different outcome is doing things differently. And the the classic example that comes across my desk all the time where we see opportunities is the facades on on modern homes. And so the facade and support of that is outside of the timber framing code. And so an engineer does a perfectly fine engineering job of working out how to support this facade, and they'll add these little steel trimmers and Az (14:32) Yeah. Adam Dawson (14:52) all these connections and you go, okay, that will hold up this facade. And then there's sort of just a dotted line on that drawing and it says that, you know, wall framing to A1684, roof trusses by others. And you have this entire structural system that is being built there for the rest of the dwelling that somehow then has to pick up this engineer's design to pick up the facade. And you have so much wasted potential in the timber framing system. And it's up to usually the frame of trust fabricator then has to figure out, okay, how on earth do I actually get these two things to plug into each other? And it's not that the engineer has done something wrong. The system works, the design works, but it's only designing that component. It's not designing the whole system. And if you had only started with what is the fundamental structural system for this home and then built out from there, you would have found a much simpler way of doing it. Az (15:21) Yeah, wow. Mm-hmm. Yeah, well. So when one of your big arguments, as we sort of said, or arguments for lack of a better word, or or opinions, is that you you and as we said earlier in the pod, and you said it, we're treating every home like its own little project. So is that what you're sort of saying there, Adam? You know, is that the problem where we're looking at it at at one finite point in time, one finite project, and we're not looking at like what are we building holistically across the board and how do we make the whole thing sort of easier, Adam? Adam Dawson (15:53) Mm. Az (16:08) Is that what it is, mate? Or could you explain it? Yeah, probably better than I can, mate. Adam Dawson (16:09) Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean I was mentioned before we jumped online that I'd been through this process and I was actually the worst example of this because we looked at all the different house plans available. It wasn't quite what we wanted. And we were probably in that sort of it's our second home and so it was going to be s you know the quote unquote dream home. So we were probably the nightmare client of wanting everything. My wife's a structural engineer as well, and so trying to trying to build build the dream home for two structural engineers, our poor builder. Az (16:28) Lava. wow. Well, Adam Dawson (16:41) But we we went through and by the time we were done with the floor plan, the only thing that was left were the external walls for the most part and the staircase. And everything else had changed. And they were willing to it it we looked at a full custom build. That was going to be too expensive. We didn't like the standard house plans. We found a builder that was willing to be very flexible with it. which was great, but Az (16:51) Yep. Adam Dawson (17:05) You know, this house took fourteen months to build and we spent twelve weeks just back and forth on getting the drafting right. So that's all well and good for me, and we're very happy with the home, but you're not gonna solve a housing crisis going through that process every time and having that kind of flexibility and it that that it needs to be a premium product at that end of the market. Az (17:12) Wow. Mm. No. Adam Dawson (17:28) And so as I say, we we're the worst example of it going in, changing everything. And I think it showed the challenge in that whole process and understanding the whole system because then what happens? The site supervisor comes and thankfully he was very good and very experienced. And because we'd extended our feature cladding all the way around the upper story instead of just having it on the facade, it meant that you couldn't roof the garage until all the upper story cladding was installed. So they had to get the roofers to come back twice. You have to put scaffolding up through the garage trusses to get access to the upper story to install the cladding. And so all of a sudden, you know, you have multiple trades now visiting the site multiple times, you're hiring scaffolding for longer. The entire process is actually a lot more convoluted than it looked like on paper. I don't think that was ever taken into account with the the timing and the budget and the schedule. And sure enough, the build ran over time as a Az (17:54) wow. Yeah. Adam Dawson (18:20) compounding effect of all these little changes and things that we'd made. So I put my hand up. I am the worst example of a client that wanted it to be unique, special, a a one once-off project that was unlike any other home. And we see the the knock-on effects of that. Az (18:24) Wow. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well I I'm not saying you weren't the worst and I don't think you are Adam, but what we're seeing more in the industry, mate, is more and more people do want personalization and all those things to their homes too. So this is gonna continue. This is the other thing and the and I think when we start to get into it, you know, exactly what you're sort of up to now, Adam Dawson (18:41) Yeah. Az (18:57) You know, the the other thing we can't deny, Adam, is that, you know, this whole thing around a lack of trades and all the Brisbane Olympics coming up and all the things we're up against, like w We need a solution, don't we, Adam? You know what I mean? We just need a solution. I I I don't even actually know I wanna stop talking about the housing housing crisis and the housing accord just because we're not gonna achieve it. We're just not gonna do it. Like why should we even have it talk about it? so unless we change, you know. ⁓ Adam Dawson (19:10) Yeah. ⁓ Mm. Mm. Yeah. And I mean you mentioned timing and I sort that's what we're finding is there are a lot of ideas are finding their time because yeah, home buy prospective home buyers are having to make different trade offs. It the cost of building, the cost of land is such that you can't all do what I did. I mean I was very fortunate that we got into this house, you know, fifteen, twenty years ago and were able to build up equity and we were very blessed to be able to go and do that project home. But Az (19:37) Yeah. Adam Dawson (19:51) That's not going to be the reality for so many people, whether they're coming into the country and looking for a home, or whether they're first-time buyers and looking to move out or looking to downsize, whatever it might be. And so much of that is just going to be out of reach. And so I think buyers are more and more willing to entertain those kind of trade-offs if it means getting into something they can afford. And some very smart builders are ahead of that trend and it's introducing these more standardized ranges to. Az (19:54) Yeah. Mm. Yeah. Adam Dawson (20:16) to meet that and provide that option to trade off. Okay, I don't get, you know, the feature cladding all the way around the the first floor, but I can still pick elements of this, I can still make it my own, and it's at a price point that I can afford. Az (20:28) Yeah. And I think they're two of the things that are most important things right now, Adam. Well, we we did talk a little bit about I I think I actually stole this from you about the car thing and the manufacturing and stuff like that. But and when you know, and then and then comparing it to commissioning a one off project like we're talking about homes. But could you walk us through what product based design really means in practice on a job? Adam Dawson (20:38) Hm. Az (20:52) because I I actually don't know if if many in the industry understand what it is because I don't think anyone's doing it at them. So yeah, go ahead, mate. Adam Dawson (20:52) Hmm. It's no, it's very rare and I think we've we're just so conditioned to the way that you buy a home that we're so used to it. So I like the car analogy and buying a car because I think that feels comfortable. Maybe we should say buying a Ute for a builder audience. But you would never walk into a car dealership and say, I like that one, but I want the wheels I want a slightly longer wheelbase, or I want it to be a little bit wider, you know, can you make the seats a little bit further back? Like it would be ludicrous. Az (21:05) Yeah. Love it. I love it. Adam Dawson (21:25) To go in and make those kind of modifications, or if you wanted that, you would understand that this is gonna take probably an extra 12 months and it's gonna cost me three times as much. Because we have this intuitive understanding that the car is the car, and there are elements of that that are fixed. And if you walk into a dealership and you can't find the one that meets what you need, then you go and find a different product. You don't choose one of those, you don't try and make it perfect. Az (21:33) Yeah. Yeah. Adam Dawson (21:50) Which is not to say that you you can't modify it, of course. You know, you still have those options. And we use this language that I I've stolen from someone who stole it from other people around fixed, flexi, and free and trying to get that into housing. And so when you look at a car, that the your chassis is fixed, it's gonna be the number of seats that it has, it's gonna have a certain base feature set, and you can't change that. But there's still element elements that are flexible. Az (22:04) Yeah. Adam Dawson (22:13) You know, you can get the upscale model, you can get the turbo motor, you can get the other accessories, the tinted windows. and then the free stuff is everything that you add on. And I think no one, you know, goes in when you go in and sit in your car, you know that's your car. It feels like your car. And it's all those free elements. It's the the stickers, it's the seat covers, it's the other bits and pieces that you put in there to make it feel like your own. And so despite coming from Az (22:18) Yeah, yeah. Adam Dawson (22:38) A fixed space, there are only so many car products and car chassis out there. Everyone's car still feels like it's their car. But that industry is built on automation, efficiency, producing standard components at scale, the same process every single time. And even completely different car models that you would never know are actually built on the exact same core chassis. And you don't know because that's just the system that's hidden behind all of it. Az (22:53) Yeah. Adam Dawson (23:04) But the car industry has got this figured out and is often held up as this sort of pinnacle of manufacturing efficiency and simplicity. And that's kind of the mindset that we're trying to introduce to buying a home. Yeah. Az (23:04) Well, yeah. Yeah. Building mate. It it's phenomenal, Adam. It's phenomenal. And when you were just talking through it, it makes total sense, doesn't it? It it really makes total sense the way we do it. And and I think the other thing too is it was quite funny. When I first came into the housing industry, one of the things I was from Kmart originally, Adam. I worked for Kmart, I sold Manzundis, we were very product-based. You know, that's what I did, mate. Like I was a marketer and I did the catalogs and the TV ads and and and worked out the campaigns and the specials. Adam Dawson (23:39) Yeah. Az (23:47) And I came into housing and I was like, and I was looking at the house designs, and I'm like, we don't treat our house designs like product. I didn't take it so far as what you have. Like, I couldn't, like, as I said, you know, I'm no Elon Musk. I can't take it from there to there and kind of figure out what's going on. But just from my own perspective, it's quite interesting when you were talking about product-based design and how the car manufacturing industry does it. Adam Dawson (24:10) Mm. Az (24:12) finding a car and then finding the right one for you. I I didn't have that thought, but I did I have even to this day still think we don't put enough on our product and the product can kind of sell itself like a car. We're kind of working the other way and I think if we if we rely on our craftsmanship and trades. And I'm not saying that's the wrong thing. There's certain builders that that works for. Well, we're j we're just not gonna you're just not as efficient anyway, as what it is. So very interesting, Adam. Well and and that kind of brings us to to trust house. Adam Dawson (24:43) Yeah. Az (24:44) if you don't mind sort of talking about that and and how it changes the way that a home comes together for a builder and and and what you're doing in that, if you wouldn't mind explaining that this is Adam, I I would say this is the most fascinating, innovative. I I think this is one of my most favorite podcasts that I've done because what you're doing there is totally what the industry needs. 100%. I have no qualms in saying that, mate. Adam Dawson (24:54) Yeah. It's it's good to hear we're just getting started on the topic, so hopefully I can continue on the theme. We'll sort of get into the trusshouse system. which is probably diff a difficult thing to explain in words, and I think we have a website that's got a time lapse of one of these builds, and when a builder sees that, they just click instantly, they know how it works. But I'll I'll do my best. I think at its core, it's turning the structural shelves, so your roof, wall and floor, into a series of standard Az (25:15) Yeah. ⁓ mate, I I can't wait. Yeah, go for it. Yeah. Adam Dawson (25:38) engineered components and they come together so it's like a big portal frame truss all plated together. And what that means then is I mean your build process, and again there's a time lapse on the website which looks really good. It's almost instead of building from bottom to top, you're almost building from end to end, left to right, and just stacking up these components like you would stack dominoes almost. Obviously we we're going to brace these so they don't topple down. Az (25:53) Yeah. Kinda what it looked like. Adam Dawson (26:01) Yeah, yeah, it's very similar to that process. But the core idea is that you're taking that that basic the the this the structural system at the heart of the home, you're turning that into a repeatable component. It's all engineered. You can essentially give an architect this kit of parts and say, Here you go, this is what you can build with, like a Lego kit. And yes, there are some trade-offs there, obviously, because you're working them within a system. But that there's also still a lot of room for creativity and you know, our library of standard components, you can mix and match things like a flat ceiling and a vaulted ceiling or a mono-pitch ceiling. You know, you can have multiple wings. It's so easy to extend it. You know, if you want a rumpus room on the back of the house, that's just another six portal frames. And so the build process is incredibly quick because you're just doing the same process frame after frame after frame after frame. So we're seeing Az (26:42) Well Love it. Adam Dawson (26:50) People get homes up fully framed in a couple of hours, sometimes even less. And then because you've standardized that entire base system, everything's working on a 600mm grid, everything's predictable. You have these voids in the trusses that go end to end. So you have all this consistent predictable space to run all your services through. Everything then gets simplified. So it's not only the carpentry and the framing stage simplified. Az (26:54) Yep. Jeez. Adam Dawson (27:15) When you're installing your roofing, everything is on a standard grid. When you're installing your cladding, all of your footings are based on a standard grid, all of your wall linings. and then if you sort of start to work with this as a as a repeatable system and doing multiple builds, your trades going from build to build, they know where are those voids? How do I run this? You're not rocking up on site and trying to figure out where how on earth do I get this cable from here to here? What do I have to cut? Az (27:37) Yeah. Adam Dawson (27:39) Or do I have to put a hole in? Yeah. And we see the other end of it, which is the fixing it. because Az (27:39) We see it all the time. Yeah. It's wild. Adam Dawson (27:44) someone has either chosen to or has had to cut a section out of a truss or cut a hole in a a wall frame that then is not structurally compliant. So we're sort of trying to remove all that, solve all of those problems at the very, very base level and enable that entire process to flow more smoothly. Az (27:48) Yeah. I it's fascinating. I as I said, I'll put the video up actually because I watched the video. I think it's fascinating and I'll put it in a link below this or on our video. I might run it as we're we're chatting, Adam. ⁓ because we'll we'll we'll edit this later. But as I said, fascinating system. So the truss house is almost like the chassis of a car, Adam. And then you can Adam Dawson (28:05) Yeah, good. Yeah, awesome. Mm-hmm, exactly. Az (28:21) build up off it. Beside the benefit of of speed, are there benefits in terms of cost efficiencies for the builder? There's less wastage on site and things like that, because we looked at we we tip we write articles a lot around builders can save near, you know, twenty to fifty thousand dollars just in wastage on on what they do. Does it help with that sort of stuff too, Adam? Or are there any other benefits, mate? Adam Dawson (28:30) Hm. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I think it upfront it's worth saying that the framing and w it will cost more than getting a standard set of frames and trusses because it's doing so much more than just a standard set of frames and trusses. And it's important to look at the total built cost. And so taking that labor off site, taking out labor from your following trades, and obviously that's where it more and more the cost of a build, yeah, the time that you have to spend on site, every time someone has to Az (28:53) Yeah. Adam Dawson (29:11) leave a place and go to a site and come back, it's adding cost to the build. So it's taking all of that out. a lot of benefits in predictability because your trades are doing the same thing again and again. So you can schedule your program with a lot more confidence because you know that that is a one day task or a half a day task. We even had a builder with their electrician quoting up his scope of the build and he just did it the way he normally would. Az (29:15) Hundred percent. Yep. Adam Dawson (29:36) for those standard tasks. And you know, this is particularly innovative builder said, you know what? Don't quote me. Just come to site. I will pay I will pay you for your time. And it worked out to be about half the price that it would have been ordinarily, because there was no roughing in, there was no trying to figure out how do I get this from here to there. You had all this space and it was so easy. And so the electrician was thrilled because it was money for jam. It was so easy. Az (29:47) Wow. Adam Dawson (29:59) And so yes, he's just spent half the time that he would have normally gotten paid half of what he would have. But if you can fill your books with that kind of work, then then you're happy. And then it means a lot less risk of callbacks and later delays for the for the builder. And so yeah, when I talk about that whole build cost, it's taking all of that into account, solving all those problems in using this system so that you don't have those delays, you're running over, you know, you're paying a client back because you've gone over your build window. Az (30:06) Yeah. Adam Dawson (30:26) You're not paying for engineering rectification design because someone's come in and cut a chunk out of a trust because there's no need. Az (30:29) Well. I know money talks, but yeah, to your point, there are the other benefits of, you know, better relationships with your trades, you know, getting your cash flow in quicker because of the timing and stuff like that. Because, you know, that's when you make your money when when you're handing over the house really. And if you can hand over homes quicker and just even that reputation, I'm sorry, Adam, because you're talking, you know, very technically and for the builder, but Adam Dawson (30:41) Mm. Yeah, that's it. Mm. Az (30:55) and I love it. I absolutely love it. But for and and this also is on a similar level, but for for a builder, like if if you're able to, you know, produce homes quicker for your clients, they're gonna be happier as well. You're just gonna have a better all-round business. I that's why I'm like when we were talking offline at it, and I'm sorry to say it on the pod, mate, but I'm just like, why doesn't every builder just freaking do this right now? I know there's a lot to switch over, and I know we don't like change here in the industry, but I think Adam Dawson (31:14) Mm-hmm. Az (31:23) If you know, we had the perfect scenario, I think there should be, you know, the a fair whack of builders should really have a look at this. I think it's gonna make your life a whole lot easier. Adam Dawson (31:30) I think we yeah, I mean we say it a lot, we joke about it a lot, that yeah, you know, builders don't like change. I think it's probably it's a little bit disingenuous. I think that builders are open to change, but they want to understand it and they want to understand the risks and and the costs. And that's sort of the process where we're at at at the moment is building more of these. because we want to show we want to show that full end-to-end data, show the process, show the videos, have homes built that people can Az (31:36) Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yep. Adam Dawson (31:57) Go and and see and touch. And once a builder sees it, they get it, is what we find. Az (31:58) Okay. Love it. Yeah. Yeah, cool. So how how many, if you don't mind me asking, how many builders have sort of adopted this right now? Not number, but has there been a fair amount of builders that you've been speaking to that have had some pretty good experiences to date, Adam? Adam Dawson (32:13) Yeah, we've had we've had great progress over in New Zealand. I love working across Australia and New Zealand because New Zealand is a fantastic market to experiment and innovate in. It's very similar to Australia in a lot of ways, but it's it's smaller. In some ways I think it's maybe six months to two years ahead of where we are in some of the trends in industry. And so you see builders there pushing a lot of complexity back into their supplies and into prefab. And so Az (32:23) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Adam Dawson (32:40) It was the right market to test this in. And yeah, like I said, we're sort of seeing builders pick this up now. We have a retail range now that's been built on this system where you can, you know, no free ads, but you can walk into a bunning store and you can order one of you can order one of these five standard designs. They're designed for the new legislation around small second dwellings and granny flats. So you don't need to get, you know, resource consent or planning approval. You just need a building permit. And Az (32:40) Wow. Mm. Not free. I'd Adam Dawson (33:04) It is as it's as simple as going in and buying a car and choosing which model and what color paint you want. And so walking into a store, I want this floor plan, I want this roofing, this wall cladding, this interior floor finishing, wall finishing. And the the entire system has been lined up across all the supplies, all the way down to the people doing the geotech and the footings, all the way through to the appliances. So once you start that process in place. Az (33:11) Well Wow. Adam Dawson (33:30) the Geotech goes out, does the site report, they do the the screw piles on a subfloor. And then once that site is prepared, it's a four week build time. You get a pack of frames on site, which all look beautiful and consistent because it's the same components. And then a series of packages come just like a Lego kit, you know, open bag one of seven, two of seven until you're finished. so all the way through to Leah literally finishings and appliances, all you need to do is move in and Az (33:49) Love it. Adam Dawson (33:56) put some curtains up and some furnishing in and yeah, they're looking at about a four week build time, which for a builder when you're talking about cash flow and turnover is really, really attractive. Yeah. Az (34:02) Yes. i it really is. I don't want to Take it and keep talking about stuff I've done. But we did a a promotion with the builder before COVID, Adam. and and it it was and this is a problem with Osmar homes up here. I'll introduce you to them actually because I think they'd be very interested in what you're doing. Josh Green, who owns it and or part owner of it, came to me and in 2018 he said, What's the most important thing? And they were aiming for first home buyers. And I was like, speed of construction, I reckon, because like they pay less rent, they get in their homes quicker. So we ran this. campaign called Home in Eight. And what we did was I was their marketing consultant, so we I helped with the campaign, but they structurally were looking to build homes in eight weeks. The they did it. Adam Dawson (34:37) Mm-hmm. Az (34:46) Customers were happy. you know, I think there were a few defects and different things because people are rushing and stuff like that as you get on. The trades and the construction team absolutely hated it because they were doing it in the traditional way, but the clients loved it. But to your point, building them in four weeks in a smooth, efficient process, having the right way of building. Adam Dawson (34:52) Mm. Yeah. Az (35:07) I can honestly vouch hand on heart that any builder that takes that up is gonna do well out of it, you know, as long as you've, you know, got the right training, which we're I just want to talk to you about after this actually and and you know how to do it. Mate, it's a phenomenal system that will revolutionize the building industry and builders' businesses. I'm blow I'm blown away by what you've been working on, Adam. Hey, and I know we we had that quick chat at FTMA and you kind of mentioned it and I had a little peek and then you sent me a few messages and I've been having a peek, but mate, I am so amped it now that I'm talking to you. It is so cool. Adam Dawson (35:28) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we're we're very excited to see more and more of it happening over in Australia now. and talk about milestones. So we have a customer called Major Timber and Trusses, they're based down in Victoria. And so they did our first prototype of a a sort of transportable version of this. So it can be used as a as a standard home, but it also can be it's designed from the ground up to be picked up and relocated and used as a transportable or modular component. And they were able to get the the frames up, so roof, wall and floor. Az (35:43) Yeah. wow. my god. Adam Dawson (36:06) they finished it in 52 minutes. And Mark at Major Timber said, you know what, if you've if we had the materials available here on site and we had the right crew with the right skills, we think we could get from zero to lock up in a day. And so that's gonna be our next our next challenge is we wanna do that and capture that and absolutely. Az (36:08) What? ⁓ my god. Can I be there? If I'm sorry, I I will pay for my own flights. Like I I I'm I wanna go and see this and I wanna celebrate it with you and I wanna capture it and I wanna put it on the good builder and let the building world know that this is happening and you gotta get involved. That is phenomenal, Adam. Very cool, man. Adam Dawson (36:30) Hehehe. Yeah, so we Az (36:43) Like you are the most innovative dude we've and any business. I know it's, you know, the team and everything, but this is the most like I said, the most innovative, crazy podcast we've ever done. It's so cool. So cool. Adam Dawson (36:46) Yeah. And we think it's yeah, we we do definitely think it's possible. like I said, this was a it was the first build of its type. It was just a crew from the frame and trust plant. Like they weren't builders. obviously they've got the skills, but they're not building every day. And they're just working in the car park at the trust plant. And yeah, he sent me the the screen cap from security camera footage to time stamp it because he was so proud of the fact that ⁓ yeah, it went from a bear car park to yeah, a small like sixty square meter dwelling, roof, wall and floor. Az (37:05) Yeah. ⁓ they did it. Adam Dawson (37:21) All stood all braced in fifty two minutes. Az (37:24) Wow. So now I've got a few more questions, Adam. So this system, it's so what what builders does it suit? It suits sounds like modular builders could use it because we've got a lot of listeners in the modular building space and I've got a few close friends in that space if you ever wanted an introduction because they will freaking love you. Because I went to their lot about three months ago and I said, How long does it take to build a a modular home? And they said, it's not that much different than Adam Dawson (37:27) Mm-hmm. Az (37:49) building a traditional home and it's kinda and I was like, wait a minute. No, it can't be. It can't be. Like, why are we doing it then? No offense to this business and I'm not naming them, but I was like, and they're big. so yeah, so who who do you work with Adam and who who best could work with this system? Adam Dawson (37:51) Mm. Yeah, I think I mean we see a couple of key opportunities right now, which is really in like those small second dwellings in Granny Flats and also in the modular and transportable homes. I think the system itself has been done up to three story dwellings over in Canada where it started. And so we are exploring designs in larger single story and double story and duplex designs and things like that. But right now, where we've done the most work and the most building. Az (38:17) Very cool. wow. Adam Dawson (38:32) Using those smaller dwellings as a starting point. And so I think for for people that are doing like small additions and granny flats and that sort of work, it's it's ready to go. It's very easy to do, and you've got that benefit of that fast site build. We did introduce this transportable option, actually out of conversations with a modular home builder who was working in a factory building transportable homes. And to your point about timelines, we looked at that process and they were spending a week. Az (38:35) Love it. Adam Dawson (38:57) assembling a steel chassis first and then building what was essentially a standard home on top of that. And then, you know, they've w they've gotten really good at it. They've worked out the logistics and things, but they're still getting damage on site. It gets to the other end and doors don't open. And there's still an element of rectification work and sending people out to remote sites and and doing all of this. And so we went away and said, what if the actual the structure itself was designed Az (38:58) Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Adam Dawson (39:23) to be lifted. And so we basically took this idea of this the truss house ethos, prefabricated, pre-engineered standard components, basically turned the longitudinal walls of that dwelling into great big lifting trusses. So you've still got voids for doors and windows, but when you step back and look at it, it's actually a giant lifting frame that doubles as a house. And so the transportability is baked in. Az (39:37) Yeah, boy. Adam Dawson (39:48) And it means that instead of having to sling underneath and run beams underneath to move you know this dwelling or this structure, it's literally some lifting lugs which sit just underneath the roof sheeting, so they're completely concealed, and you can just pick it up from the top. And so simplify the rigging. The whole thing's designed from the it's not designed as a standard dwelling, it's designed as a transportable dwelling. So it was intended to be picked up. And so it's lighter. You're taking a whole step out of the factory. Of the whole steel floor chassis and speeding up that whole process, yeah. Az (40:16) Yeah. Holy moly, Adam. There's gonna be some introductions made over the next few days. So I'm just gonna put you in front of a few modular builders that I really like. I really love these guys as well. Like, and I just think they've got I think modular is a fantastic opportunity. Again, there's a you know, now that I know you, Adam, there's I think you've got a a a great solution. But in my head, I was looking at the housing crisis and everything that in the accord and things, and I'm like, we've got to do more modular. And that's what I was playing, like not playing, I was trying to research the modular space. Adam Dawson (40:21) Yeah. Mm. Az (40:48) And finding out that it at the moment isn't as efficient as it as it could be. So yeah, mate, unbelievable. Unbelievable. Adam Dawson (40:53) Yeah, I mean we see so many of these systems that they're very bespoke. So each factory is running its own system and its own design and the startup cost of that is is very high and you need to reach a certain like economic of scale to make that work. And even over in, you know, Scandinavia and Europe where like people use that as an exemplar and go, Yeah, these guys get it and they've adopted factory building, modular building. Az (41:02) Yeah. Yeah. Adam Dawson (41:19) There are still so many like ghost building systems that came and went because they never hit the scale. And so that's what we wanted to do with Trust House. The great thing about it is that at the end of the day, they're just trusses. And so you can get them out of a standard frame and trust plant. it's great for the frame and trusts because now they're operating like a pure manufacturing business. They're manufacturing the same components again and again and again. I mean, right now, a builder calls up a trust plant. Az (41:27) Other Yeah. Adam Dawson (41:44) You've got to ask what's your lead time because everything is made bespoke. If you're hooked up with a trust plant that's doing this system, anytime that factory has downtime, they can get their guys making these components because they know that they're going to sell that exact truss. And so now you've got a much more efficient manufacturing business. your lead times drop because you can make things ahead of time. And when you're dealing with a modular builder, Az (41:48) Yeah. Adam Dawson (42:07) you you sort of got that steady supply and that steady throughput. And you know, we run a factory as well. We we get it. You need to you can't have stuff just sitting around. It needs to be in and out just on time. And that's the kind of thing that this yeah, again, the system thinking is what it enables. And for a frame and trust the great thing about using the existing frame and trust plans is we have so much frame and trust capacity in Australia and New Zealand. And they're not reliant on this work either. So if they run out of trust house frames to build, they can just build standard frames and trusses. And so you don't have that same problem of, you know, we need to find $10 million a year of sales just to justify this investment and this equipment. They can turn it off and on and blend it with their standard workload. So we're kind of turning, use the existing manufacturing capacity that we have, turn it into quote unquote MMC manufacturing. Don't go and build a brand new factory down the road to try and do a bespoke system. Az (42:36) Yeah. Yeah, wow. Yeah. I I it it's fascinating, Adam. You're you're looking at N I said earlier in the podcast you're looking holistically at a project and you're kind of not. You're actually looking holistically at the supply chain too. And figuring out, you know, for a builder, not only efficiency in actually building a pro project for lack of a better word, or a home, you're looking at how efficient you are in getting the supply of the materials as well, which is another part of the problem of the housing accord, you know? I Adam Dawson (43:10) Mm. Mm. Az (43:28) Fascinating. So fascinating, mate. And it's kind of starting to the penny's starting to drop for me with Prider, you know, what you guys do with Prider and all your auxiliary businesses and and how you have that understanding end to end and and how you're looking to benefit the entire industry end to end, let alone builders who are gonna love building homes in four weeks and getting paid. that's pretty cool. Adam Dawson (43:51) I mean you talked about like the number of people leaving just because of the the stress and the burnout and it's yeah I mean we know that builders at a certain scale, you become a project manager, but what we sort of really want to do is to, you know, let a builder sell it and then build it and not have to worry about that stress of how all that all that's coming together. Build in yeah, a predictable way, hit your payment milestones predictably. Az (43:55) yeah. Yeah. I'll go to it Adam Dawson (44:17) Happy customer. And I mean, I mentioned at the start, we haven't talked about it actually in terms of the system. But one of the things that to make this possible, to make it possible, you know, this portal action, you do need it is a wider wall profile. So it's not building in your standard 90 mil walls. and it does vary, but it's typically a 300 mil wide wall cavity. And what that means is actually forget about reaching for seven star and what are we going to do beyond that. Az (44:23) Yeah, Gaffer. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Adam Dawson (44:41) A trusshouse home is effectively a 10 star home off the bat. Just because you've got that all that extra space for insulation. So if you detail it with, you know, the right windows and doors, we're just leaving leave that trying to scrape for code minimum behind. Again, it's integral to the system. And we talked about, yeah, like being in this industry, making a difference, being proud of what we're doing. And yeah, when you're inside a trusshouse home. Az (44:45) Really? I love it. Adam Dawson (45:05) It feels like the feel of that floor space is amazing. It's quiet, it's dry, it's warm, it's incredibly energy efficient. you can create space and architectural elements that would normally be out of reach financially, but because you know you're using these portal frame systems that completely opens up the internal floor plan, completely opens up the gable ends to do whatever you want with it, you can suddenly create what looks and feels like a really premium product, but with that fast build time and Az (45:30) Well yeah. Adam Dawson (45:32) That's sort of some of why I'll kind of be a little bit bold and cheeky and say we do think it's a system that solves everything. ⁓ because of all those benefits which are just ancillary to the system. Yeah, they come with it. Az (45:39) Yeah. I love it. Well, the more I talk to you, Adam, I agree, mate. And not only like as I said, for the builder, for the industry and the suppliers and and you know, the frame and trust manufacturers. I went to the FTMA conference and have kind of gotten a little close with a couple of frame and trust manufacturers, which I didn't think I would, but I didn't know too many of them. But you know, they they do want to do the best for the industry as well. And you see the part that they play and and you know some of their frustrations and things like that. So I think you're helping on on a lot of you know, different different spectrums and and across the industry. Adam Dawson (45:58) Mm. Mm. Az (46:13) mate, but be beyond the walls, is there anything else that a builder needs to change in order to start working with this sort of process? Adam, like is there software? Is there I I sorry, I don't understand it, you know, that well in terms of the construction. Adam Dawson (46:14) Yeah. No, it's part of Hm. Yeah. No, I mean it's it's part of what we love about it is that yes, it's a big change to the the structural system, but after that, you're still just dealing with timber framing, lightweight timber framing. So, you know, to install your cladding and to install your roofing, you know, you're battening out and installing as normal, you're bracing it as normal, all your windows, all your door frames are going in the same way. So you're not actually changing Az (46:35) Okay. Adam Dawson (46:48) that follow-on process. So you're still using the same materials, you can use the same suppliers. We're not trying to disrupt any of that. We're just trying to make that simpler and faster. And you're then you know simplifying that because yeah you're installing the same claddings, fixtures, fittings, doors and windows, but in a predictable system and you talk to wastage and things before. So one of the things we're doing in New Zealand now is just pre-cutting all of the NOGs Az (47:08) Mm-hmm. Adam Dawson (47:12) and using some material that would have been probably wasted in the frame and trust plant and just adding to that bit by bit, adding to that kit of parts. So you've just got everything that you need. There's no manual work. There's no wastage on site. Az (47:19) Wow. it it's just just phenomenal, Adam. As I said. Haven't we w I'll sorry, keep going, Adam. Adam Dawson (47:25) Yeah. The ⁓ yeah, I just I mean, so the the trade off I think you the thing you need to get your head around is you do need to start with the system. And so it's this is the whole idea of getting back to product based design. You start with the product, so you design around the system. We had a fantastic conversation with the builder a couple of weeks ago that really got it and that was what they sort of played back to me. They're like you have to design with the system, don't try and make your design fit the system. Az (47:32) Yeah. Adam Dawson (47:52) later. So if you start in the right place, that's why, you know, that's where pride comes into it. So sort of even, you know, we get all sorts of things. We get full 3D models and drawings. We sometimes just get back of a a napkin sketches, which is perfectly fine. to then sort of equip a designer and an architect with a builder with that kit of parts and the parameters and go okay, here are the rules that you're working with. If you work within this space, go for your life. You can be as creative as you like. And so Az (48:11) Yeah. Adam Dawson (48:17) I sort of when I introduced it to our frame of trust customers, I said it is like we are building on different rails. So it is different. And it's like you go to the the start of the building process, you know, you buy your ticket. Do you want the standard train that's going to stop at every station or do you want the express train? And the express train's amazing and it's incredibly fast and it's incredibly smooth and simple, but you do have to make that decision right at the beginning when you buy the ticket. And so you can't get halfway down the line and decide actually no. Az (48:22) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Adam Dawson (48:41) Actually I want to jump on the express train now. So that's sort of part of what we're doing. I think, you know, it takes time to adopt because you do have to start with the architects, with the designers, get things built in the system from the beginning, and that's when all the benefits flow through. Az (48:55) Love it. Love it. No, and I I well, I think it inherently brings a process to some builders as well. Cause you've got that starting point as well, Adam. You've got that reference point of what you're going to do. I think that's a lot of the challenge half the time. I remember when I was involved in a a part owner of a building business that, you know, we were building Adam Dawson (49:02) Hm. Az (49:13) bespoke homes, bespoke projects every time. And it was like, how are we actually gonna even start this thing? You know, that that was that took a lot of the time and just wasted time. Adam Dawson (49:20) Mm. Yeah. And I mean I think to your point from the the start, like why us, why prida, like why are we we involved in this? And I think it is just because yeah, we're in we're early enough in the process where we can influence the design, but we're late enough that we're close to the builder and close to the trades. And so if you start there with that structural shell and that structural system, then you're right, you can build a process around that because then everything else, you know, you can Az (49:27) Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Adam Dawson (49:46) simplify and standardize your design process, your drafting process, your estimating and your costing, your purchase orders. Everything if you pick something to standardize, which in this case is the structural frame, and then everything else can flow out from that and have that same level of standardization. And that I mean this is the whole idea of thinking in in systems and building products. Az (49:57) Mm. Yep. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, wow. That is this is a being as I said, I'm I'm learning as I've kind of gone through this podcast exactly what it's all about, Adam. And I probably would have been more excited at the beginning, even though I was very excited to speak to you. I would have been way more excited if I knew what it was all about. 'Cause I'm just like, holy shit, at the end of this one, like I am just like, this is what the industry Adam Dawson (50:21) Ha ha. Az (50:30) really needs to start looking at either, you know, this or or things like this. But, you know, you're the only one out there doing this stuff and ⁓ yeah Adam Dawson (50:35) Yeah. Yeah. I mean this is exciting for us. I think there's been it's been over three years since I first saw the concept and just went, that is yeah, that is the thing that I think solves it. And so I think builders coming on board now are gonna benefit from all that work because it does take a a lot of work to align all those different pieces and work it out and run it through the system and optimise it and improve it. And so Az (50:44) really? Adam Dawson (51:00) That's why we're excited to be sharing that now and getting the story out there because we're at a point now we have some fantastic frame and trust manufacturers that are, you know, they're upskilled, they've done prototypes, they've done samples, they're ready to go. you know, we've, you know, as an engineering team at Prider, we've got our systems and processes in place to be able to take designs and work with builders and designers and make it work in the system, plug you back through, you know, the frame and trust supplier and support that whole end-to-end process. So Az (51:03) Little bit. Adam Dawson (51:25) Yeah, we're just sort of looking for those opportunities now to find the right projects. And it's it's like walking into a car dealership. It doesn't matter how many cars you have, you're not gonna have the right car for every single buyer. And that's just that's a product of systemizing things. So we know that. So we're looking for the right projects that can take full advantage of the system. And yeah, there's still there's always gonna be, you know, that that custom luxury, fully bespoke. Az (51:36) Yeah. Adam Dawson (51:51) part of the market, which is fine. You know, there's great builders doing that kind of work. but you know, for the that 80-20 rule is something that we talk about all the time here. So for that 80% of the market and of dwellings, you know, we're pretty confident that there is a trust house-based solution that can work. Az (51:54) Yeah. I love it. Yep. Yeah, yeah. Well, I think I'm dubbing you the Elon Musk of the construction industry and and I'm dubbing Pri Prater the the Tesla of the and I like Tesla's, I actually own one. of the industry. I I'm not ashamed in saying that. I think they're a fan fantastic piece of machinery and I think what you guys are creating is an absolutely required piece of the puzzle for us to start Adam Dawson (52:18) Ha ha. Az (52:31) you know, making a dent in housing affordability, the housing accord, all those things. But I think for me and for all you builders out there, to make your lives easier, to put a process into your business, to build in a standardized way and knowing what you're up against, knowing you teams love building because it's easy to do. Everything's a smooth process. I just think what you what you're doing there is is amazing. As I said, I'm I I don't know if we're the exclusive for this podcast. I'm not that much of an egomaniac, but ⁓ I hope we kind of are because I want to break this and we are gonna break this hard, Adam, and put it out there, mate, on on several platforms and articles because I think we've got a lot to talk about here to and to educate the industry. And I think the last thing I want to say is I'm gonna introduce you to a few builders, mate. A few modular builders. They're gonna love you, mate. They're gonna love what you've done. Adam Dawson (53:01) S. Fantastic. No, we always enjoy those conversations and I don't know, can't promise exclusive, but you are the first. So if you're Yep. Az (53:28) Okay. No, no, we don't need exclusive. Yep. That cool. Thank you. And that's not me being a ego maniac, but thank you for having us be the first. But like absolutely Adam, like I I say it from the bottom of my heart. No, I I say it from the bottom of the heart of our community. We we talk to a lot of builders out here and a lot of them, you know, they're looking for solutions and a lot of them are looking to be better and stuff like that. So for you guys to put in three years of pretty damn hard work, I could I I I don't even yeah. Like I said, you've got some highly intelligent people including yourself that are sort of piecing this thing together. I think the whole industry should thank you because I I talk to everyone in the industry and I don't think there's anyone else looking at it at this level. For real. Adam Dawson (54:10) Yeah, I mean it is it has been a journey. it's it's kind of ironic now people look at the build, look at the time lapse and go, that's so simple. and I could give you I could give you a hundred reasons that I was told over the last three years why it wouldn't work. And sort of had to just, I think, yeah, surrounded by a good team. Kim Aitken is the inventor of the system. She's yeah from Canada now based in New Zealand. but it is all about partnerships, and so we've had phenomenal partnerships with Az (54:17) Ha ha ha. Yeah. Adam Dawson (54:34) frame and trust fabricators with retailers and building that whole system together. So yeah, a lot of work has gone into it. But we're really excited to see more and more homes built. And I think one thing we know about builders is when they see someone else doing something that looks better and smarter, then they're definitely keen to change 'cause they don't want to left behind. And so Az (54:52) ⁓ yeah. And that is why I wanna go to that event when you're doing that thing down there and I'm gonna show it to the world because I reckon every builder if I was a builder and I if I still had what you know in in the building company I was involved with, I'd tell you what, Adam, I'd get you on straight away, mate. Would this wouldn't, you know, if this was a meeting, you'd be like, let's do a deal. We're on, let's keep let's go, mate. I think it's phenomenal, man. just it's mind blowing. It's actually mind blowing. I didn't expect this at all. Like, you know, it's it's a very mind blowing yeah, product that you you and and service or I don't even know what you call it, but you bring something to market that's gonna change it. Adam Dawson (55:31) Hm. I I mean that's part of what's different. It is it's a different approach. It's a different system. You know, you you're not going to your engineer apologies to my engineering colleagues. but you know, you you're coming to Pryder, you know, the people with the nail plates and on the the shelf of the hardware store with the brackets and everything. I'm coming to Pryder with my architectural plans and asking what's the best system of building and I'm engaging them to be my engineer. It's a different approach and that was part of the I think the initial maybe reluctance or or questions is Az (55:39) Okay. Adam Dawson (55:58) Is a builder going to be happy to do that? And I mean that's just why we've got to build more, improve it and show that we can. And we're seeing that yeah, once once you see it in in real life, once you see the process, once you see it built, then yeah, you don't want to go back. Az (56:03) Yeah. Very cool. Very cool. Well, I've got one more question for you, Adam, and it's our signature question. And you know, you are very close to builders. You're not a builder that won't be held against you by anyone. I've said I think I've said about ten different versions of what makes a good builder. Everyone asked me and I'm like, here now, here now. It changes all the freaking time. Right now for me, good builder is someone that adopts technology and looks at things the the other way and and has a Adam Dawson (56:21) Ha ha. Az (56:36) has a look at how to do things better. But anyway, I don't put words in your mouth and that's probably from inspiration for just talking to you from the last hour and what you're doing, mate. But what do you think makes a good builder, Adam? Adam Dawson (56:38) Yeah. Yeah, I think I take a step back from the technology adoption. I was thinking about it a lot and thinking that what makes a good builder is understanding. And it's that really understanding the whole process. What is the actual outcome that I'm trying to achieve? And the those are the best conversations that we have with builders are the ones that see it straight away. They see all the links through the whole process and they're not looking at just one part of the build. They really understand. That entire flow from sale through to completed home. And that's when you can have these kind of conversations about, you know, yes, this part of it, this line item, this procurement item is going to cost more, this invoice is going to be higher. But you look at your total build cost, your total build time, you think about cash flow and understanding your business and that whole process. And the ones that get that are definitely all over it. So understanding was my sort of word of the day for what makes a good builder. Az (57:37) I love it. And you know what, Adam, you know, if you were going to ask me right now what makes a good supplier, I would probably reflect what you just said back right back at you. It's one that understands. and and and I'm just coming from our podcast and what I now know about how this thing has come about. One that understands the entire supply chain and process of building, and you've done it. And I reckon you're one of the only ones I've ever spoken to that does. And I know this sounds pretty harsh to the rest of them, but actually gives a shit about all of it as well. You know what I mean? From from how it affects the builder and all of that to how you know, you you're delivering a solution to a builder. You're not just thinking about yourselves and and making more money, you're looking at the holistic whole thing and going, Hey, how do we make this faster, you know, cheaper because of labor and all those things more efficient and less stressful? That Adam Dawson (58:06) Yeah. Az (58:27) is phenomenal. And I love that you said understanding. That's not Ben said either. Very cool. Adam Dawson (58:31) it's good it's good to know. Yeah. I mean, like I said at the top, the the whole seven years I've been at Prider, the mission has been to get builders to care about whose name's on the trusses. And I do think we have something that is different. I had someone, you know, an industry veteran of several decades, you probably met them at the FTMA, that said like this this is the first new thing in Frame and Trusts kinda since Frames and Trusts came along. And so yeah, I hope it is a catalyst for for builders to kind of look at Prider a little bit differently and think that we can give them something different. Az (58:46) Yeah. Adam Dawson (58:58) And yeah, we're always open to chat. Az (59:01) Yep. Well you certainly are. We'll put all the links below. We're gonna put all the video here. Adam, sorta put you on the spot, mate, but I want your back. I wanna have another podcast with you and I'd like to write some articles on you. We'll have our journos touch with you. And ⁓ don't forget to send me that date for that project if you don't mind. I'm just self inviting myself. Even if it's in Melbourne, man, I'm flying there, I don't care. I'm gonna get down there. I wanna see it. I wanna show the world that the stuff the prior. Adam Dawson (59:14) Phenomenon, yeah. Mm-hmm. Az (59:27) And Adam and his team does because I think it's super important for our industry. And in the end, it's going to give a better name to our industry. That's what I care about, Adam. Like I know that's pretty selfish. We're trying to shine a good light on the industry, but your efforts will make our industry look better in the eyes of other media and consumers. So I think that's pretty meaningful for me too, mate. There's a big lot of advantages of working with you, mate. Adam Dawson (59:48) Mm. there's been and I mean modular building, kit home, some of these terms are sort of tarred with some bad experiences and and then there's been some recent stories of when it has gone wrong. And you know for me it's important that you know we are creating spaces and the when I first stepped into Prider, the thing that really appealed to me was, you know, we're building homes for people. These are where, you know, your family, your kids are gonna live, your parents, Az (59:59) Yeah. yeah. Yeah. Adam Dawson (1:00:15) you know, that's what we do and that's what we're here for. And so I'm really proud of what, you know, the result of a a trust house build is. Like I said, it's it's comfortable, it's energy efficient, it looks great. It's a place that, you know, I'm proud of being a part of creating and yeah, really excited to see it go forward. I think there's like I said, well, three years work, a lot more stories to tell than we can cover in an hour. So yeah I'd love to get you down. Have a look at the manufacturing and and sort of exploring that whole end to end process. And we've got some very innovative and excited suppliers in the frame and truss world that are yeah, just itching for some orders. Az (1:00:48) Mate, I promise you I'm gonna do it. I want to drive this. I know it's not my thing, and I want no commission and I'm not your salesperson, but I wanna drive this through the industry. I wanna drive it hard like mate, you should you should get into it. Yeah. Yeah, I I want you you know, you should be in there in front of the politicians telling them how to build homes. We keep going round in circles and you've got the solution sitting right here. Adam Dawson (1:00:53) Yeah. Well we'll ⁓ we'll see you in Melbourne soon. Az (1:01:12) But yeah, you don't get the voice there, so anyway. Adam Dawson (1:01:15) Yep. No, it's like I said, a lot of work. We feel like we're ready now. And so I mean, you were the the first to kind of one of the first to have a conversation with me. We just wanna get this story out there. And I I will any anyone can put a microphone in front of me anytime. I'm happy to talk about this all day, every day. Az (1:01:29) Yeah. No cool. All right, mate. Well, thank you so much, Adam. I could talk to you all day. I'm gonna let you go because as you said, we gotta get this out here rather than me just chat to you. So I'm gonna go get this out here, mate, and ⁓ yeah, make some intros. Thank you very much for your time, mate. Adam Dawson (1:01:41) Very good. Phenomenal. No, thank you for having me. Really enjoyed it. Az (1:01:46) Awesome.