Latest / The Steve Harvey Morning Show / Interview of the Week: The Today Show's Craig Melvin talks about his new book “Pops: Learning to Be a Son and a Father”

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Interview of the Week: The Today Show's Craig Melvin talks about his new book “Pops: Learning to Be a Son and a Father” · The Steve Harvey Morning Show

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Speaker 1: Here we come. Welcome to Money Making Conversation. I have
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Speaker 1: your host, ra Sean McDonald. I'll tell people every week
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Speaker 1: I bring on money main conversations you might see with
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Speaker 1: celebrity ceo, entrepreneurs, and what I like to call industry
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Speaker 1: decision makers. My next guest is a Craig Melvine. He's
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Speaker 1: the co host of the Today Show and the author
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Speaker 1: of the book Pops Learning to Be a Son and
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Speaker 1: the Father. You may know Crickets and the war winning
2:44
Speaker 1: news anchor. As I said earlier on the Today Show.
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Speaker 1: You also have seen him on MSNBC Live and the
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Speaker 1: host of Dateline. He's on the show discussed this book,
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Speaker 1: Pops Learning to Be a Son and the Father. It's
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Speaker 1: the story of all the father figures in Craig's life
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Speaker 1: and that includes inspiring men from his program on his
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Speaker 1: series called Dad's Got this series on NBC NBC News Today.
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Speaker 1: These experiences, encounters of shapes, creates understanding of his own
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Speaker 1: role as a dad. And I'm sure I can be
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Speaker 1: related and we'll have a nice conversation. Since Father's Day
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Speaker 1: has recently passed. He has two young children. Please wop
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Speaker 1: me the money making conversation, my man, Craig Melvin, how
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Speaker 1: you doing, Craig Sean, I'm well, I'm well, thank you
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Speaker 1: so much for having me always enjoy your conversation. So
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Speaker 1: I have to be a part of one. Thank you man.
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Speaker 1: Southern boy, South Carolina. Okay, you know, uh, you know
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Speaker 1: when I when I see people on TV and you
3:36
Speaker 1: so articulate, there's no yaws, there's no access. How does
3:40
Speaker 1: a man come straight out of Columbian? I know color
3:42
Speaker 1: because Steve Harvey. I used to go down a lot
3:44
Speaker 1: of performative town center selling that place out all the time.
3:47
Speaker 1: So I'm fair familiar with South Carolina, Charleston, that whole
3:50
Speaker 1: low country. There's no low country in your tone? What's
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Speaker 1: going on there? Are you? Are you break that low
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Speaker 1: country accent? Low country accent? Because I didn't ever I
4:00
Speaker 1: never had my mom. Uh, you'll appreciate this growing up
4:05
Speaker 1: in Houston, Uh, the way that you grew up. My
4:07
Speaker 1: mom grew up in the projects and first in the
4:10
Speaker 1: family to go to college and first in the family
4:13
Speaker 1: to get a graduate degree. So when we came along,
4:17
Speaker 1: she wanted to expose us to two things and places
4:22
Speaker 1: that she had not been exposed to. And consequently, I
4:27
Speaker 1: think it's I was probably fourteen or fifteen, and she
4:30
Speaker 1: had us uh take part in these oratorical contests. Um
4:34
Speaker 1: and and that was was kind of how it started.
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Speaker 1: So I took some public speaking classes and then these
4:42
Speaker 1: oratorical contests, and then the next thing you knew, I
4:45
Speaker 1: had what they what they like to call in the
4:47
Speaker 1: business a nondescript dialect. Right, you can't really tell based
4:53
Speaker 1: on listening to me where I'm from. It's a blessing. Now.
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Speaker 1: When I was growing up, it was always he's to
5:00
Speaker 1: white absolutely he talks, liked when he talks second white boy.
5:05
Speaker 1: So it's you know, it's it was a curse. Now
5:08
Speaker 1: it's a blessing. Well, you know, it's interesting because I
5:10
Speaker 1: knew in my middle school. I remember my teacher used
5:13
Speaker 1: to always ask me to read, just always ask me
5:15
Speaker 1: to read. And you know, people talk about bullying, and
5:18
Speaker 1: you know when you people are talking about they call
5:20
Speaker 1: you snowflake. That was a talma bully. And then so
5:23
Speaker 1: it's it's popularized now because people are willing to talk
5:25
Speaker 1: about it. But we all grew up in some form
5:27
Speaker 1: of physical or mental abuse from high school kids or
5:30
Speaker 1: people in the neighborhood. And my remember this, this this girl,
5:34
Speaker 1: she made such a big deal that I was always
5:36
Speaker 1: asked to read that. It almost, I have to say,
5:39
Speaker 1: traumatized me because I went exactly the opposite. I wanted
5:43
Speaker 1: to talk, I wanted to say, ain't I wanted to
5:45
Speaker 1: have I wanted to slur my words. I wanted to
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Speaker 1: fit in. And so what you I bring that story
5:50
Speaker 1: up because you talk about because you was hit with it.
5:53
Speaker 1: You was hit, you know, talking why I didn't want
5:55
Speaker 1: to act white you you're calling you snowflake? What keept
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Speaker 1: you focused? What kept you from from fearing off? Like
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Speaker 1: I heared off? I veered off and I said, hey, man,
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Speaker 1: I want to fit in and not beat me. You know,
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Speaker 1: I think it was And I write about in the
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Speaker 1: book my mother. My mother really sean. I mean she
6:12
Speaker 1: um she she kept us on the straight and narrow
6:15
Speaker 1: at the time. Uh. We we resented the strictness. I
6:20
Speaker 1: mean my mom, she knew all of our friends, all
6:24
Speaker 1: of the parents. We weren't allowed to stay out past
6:28
Speaker 1: you know, during the week maybe nine o'clock, maybe on
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Speaker 1: the weekends when kids were going to parties and having fun.
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Speaker 1: I was doing oratorical contests and activities. And I went
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Speaker 1: to in high school. I think I probably went to
6:43
Speaker 1: maybe three high school football games on Friday night. I
6:46
Speaker 1: just I didn't. I grew up on a very tight leash, right, um.
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Speaker 1: And And plus of it was my mother overcompensating for
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Speaker 1: for my father not being the kind of dad that
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Speaker 1: he should have been. But part of it was mom knew.
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Speaker 1: She knew back then, I think kind of what it took.
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Speaker 1: She was a school teacher and then she went into
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Speaker 1: an administration. She knew what it took um to to
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Speaker 1: shape and mold young black boys, especially right, and and
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Speaker 1: that was it. Had it not been for her, had
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Speaker 1: I grown up in another house, we wouldn't be having
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Speaker 1: this conversation right now. Well, you know I writing your book,
7:19
Speaker 1: you know the book we're talking for talking to interviewer
7:20
Speaker 1: Craig Melvin, his book Pops, Learning to Be a Son
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Speaker 1: and the Father. Is it because the fact that your
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Speaker 1: father wasn't there, that she may be overcompensated and wanted
7:31
Speaker 1: to make sure you didn't you had a better life,
7:33
Speaker 1: or you pursued the options even though I knew she
7:35
Speaker 1: went to college and think in the age of twenty
7:37
Speaker 1: two is when she became pregnant with you. But talk
7:41
Speaker 1: about that in the middle because as we talked about
7:43
Speaker 1: trying to shape you because of the fact that you've
7:46
Speaker 1: been shaped by a lot of people, especially to the
7:48
Speaker 1: stories we're gonna talk about. The the president incident when
7:51
Speaker 1: you was out of camp grades had that really kind
7:52
Speaker 1: of like started you in this direction of humanizing all men,
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Speaker 1: especially men who are incost already talk about your mom,
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Speaker 1: mom and her role versus your dad role because you
8:03
Speaker 1: mentioned it just a little bit, but that sent us
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Speaker 1: around us getting into the story and your father changed
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Speaker 1: his life at the age of six or seven. Mom, Yeah, mom, Mom.
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Speaker 1: Mom had to play the role of mom and dad
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Speaker 1: for the better part of my childhood. Um, it was,
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Speaker 1: it was. It was a role that she was. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: she was unfortunately well prepared for it because she ended
8:24
Speaker 1: up she had to take care of her three younger siblings.
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Speaker 1: UM when she was in college and her father skipped
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Speaker 1: out of the family, ended up essentially dying on the
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Speaker 1: streets and square. But no a mom. Because my father
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Speaker 1: was not physically present as often as I would have liked,
8:45
Speaker 1: and my younger brother would have liked my older brother
8:47
Speaker 1: as well. Mom stepped in the trip to fill the gap.
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Speaker 1: She filled she filled a boy and not just not
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Speaker 1: just being present in a sense of sean a little
8:56
Speaker 1: league games or soccer games, or or con service. Not
9:00
Speaker 1: just physically president, but but but emotionally president, right A
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Speaker 1: spiritually present. I mean that the relationship that I have
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Speaker 1: uh with God is because of my mother's relationship with God.
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Speaker 1: So it was it was divine intervention. You know, had
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Speaker 1: I had any other mother, things would not have gone
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Speaker 1: the way that they did. But you know it's it's
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Speaker 1: also and I write about in the book as you know,
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Speaker 1: and I do appreciate the fact that you read the book.
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Speaker 1: You'd be surprised how often to talk to people about
9:31
Speaker 1: books and they hadn't read word one. But I can
9:36
Speaker 1: tell you read the whole thing. And I write about
9:38
Speaker 1: in the book. My father. I asked him doing the
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Speaker 1: course of my my interviews with him for the book,
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Speaker 1: I said, Pops, what was the most money you ever
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Speaker 1: was sed h Without missing a beat, he said it
9:49
Speaker 1: was about fifts back in nineteen six. I said, that
9:53
Speaker 1: was a lot of money back then, when you spend
9:54
Speaker 1: that money on he said, that's how much. That's how
9:56
Speaker 1: much it cost to put my daddy in the ground.
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Speaker 1: And in that moment I realized, um that while I
10:04
Speaker 1: had been frustrated by the lack of relationship I had
10:07
Speaker 1: with my dad. It was exponentially better than the relationship
10:10
Speaker 1: he had with his own father. Right, he didn't know
10:12
Speaker 1: who his dad was until he was almost a teenager,
10:16
Speaker 1: So it was it was wholly unrealistic of me to
10:21
Speaker 1: expect him to be the kind of dad that I
10:24
Speaker 1: had had come to to to idolize. He couldn't be
10:28
Speaker 1: it because he hadn't seen it, And you can't be
10:31
Speaker 1: something that. It's really hard to be something. Yes, if
10:35
Speaker 1: if you if you haven't seen it, if you haven't
10:38
Speaker 1: been exposed to it. So that's what my dad was
10:39
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Speaker 1: the AD Council. You know, when I when I read
12:38
Speaker 1: the book, you know, um, you know I heard shotgun house. Okay,
12:42
Speaker 1: I grew up in there. I was born in the
12:43
Speaker 1: shotgun house. Two very shotgun house. A lot of people.
12:45
Speaker 1: If you're listening to shotgun house, over to the front door,
12:48
Speaker 1: shoot the gun out, shotgun out through the go out
12:50
Speaker 1: the front back door. Don't hit anything that's a shotgun house. Okay,
12:54
Speaker 1: you reference pig feats. Grew up with big feast, my man, hey,
12:59
Speaker 1: Greg a touch, but big fees to or part of
13:04
Speaker 1: our lifestyle. And so that's the Southern I from Houston, Texas.
13:07
Speaker 1: I'm from the South. It was it was a lifestyle
13:09
Speaker 1: that was normal to me. But it was also a
13:11
Speaker 1: community lifestyle of people taking care of each other, and
13:15
Speaker 1: that was really important. Not only your dad, even though
13:18
Speaker 1: there were some missteps, there were still people there to
13:21
Speaker 1: take care of him, you know, to make sure he
13:23
Speaker 1: was focused, to shout at him as he became an adult.
13:26
Speaker 1: There were people in the community. That's really important in
13:29
Speaker 1: this book that no matter what, there's some form of
13:33
Speaker 1: family tied to your story and the people in your
13:36
Speaker 1: life talk about that, you know, it's a it's it's
13:39
Speaker 1: funny because long before people started talking about it taking
13:44
Speaker 1: a village, uh to to to rear a child, I
13:47
Speaker 1: had a village. You know, it wasn't called that back
13:50
Speaker 1: back in the eighties in South Carolina, back in the
13:52
Speaker 1: eighties and nineties when I grew up. But I had
13:55
Speaker 1: a village. And and yes, there were a number of
13:59
Speaker 1: men who played the role of dad alone the way
14:01
Speaker 1: my uncle James, my uncle Jake, my uncle frank Um.
14:06
Speaker 1: But there were also a lot of women that that
14:09
Speaker 1: that played the part as well. I was disciplined, and
14:12
Speaker 1: I think that's the politically correct term I was. I
14:17
Speaker 1: was disciplined by more women growing up than men, whether
14:20
Speaker 1: it's my mom or one of my aunts and my grandma.
14:24
Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time with my two grandmothers
14:26
Speaker 1: growing up, and they really shaped me in myriad ways
14:31
Speaker 1: that I didn't fully appreciate until I was older. But
14:35
Speaker 1: and then after that, I had coaches along the way.
14:37
Speaker 1: I always God always blessed me with with with people
14:41
Speaker 1: along the road, right, Uh. That that gave me a
14:46
Speaker 1: little part of something that I was. I was able
14:49
Speaker 1: to take and build on. Right. It's difficult for young
14:53
Speaker 1: black men especially, it's it's difficult to to learn how
14:56
Speaker 1: to carry yourself in this world, um with without examples
15:02
Speaker 1: of it. And I had lots of examples, thankfully along
15:07
Speaker 1: the way. But the reality is, you know, Sean, a
15:10
Speaker 1: lot of kids don't have that. A lot of kids
15:12
Speaker 1: don't they just you know, through no fault of their
15:14
Speaker 1: own mind, they they don't have a mother or a father,
15:19
Speaker 1: or an uncle or an aunt to take their hands
15:23
Speaker 1: on this journey of life. And so they end up
15:26
Speaker 1: finding role models, uh that they should not be held up,
15:31
Speaker 1: but that should not be on the battle still, and
15:33
Speaker 1: they begin to to emulate them. You know. The thing
15:37
Speaker 1: I really like about your book is that sometimes uh,
15:40
Speaker 1: because my father was a truck driver, you know, so
15:43
Speaker 1: you know, when he wasn't driving trucks, you know he
15:45
Speaker 1: was he was he wasn't really connected to me. I
15:49
Speaker 1: can I can tell you he was my father. I
15:51
Speaker 1: can tell you that my mom was there for me.
15:53
Speaker 1: My mom pushed me. My mom always felt that could
15:56
Speaker 1: be somebody special in life. When your father showed up
15:59
Speaker 1: for or ball game, that that memory. You don't know,
16:02
Speaker 1: if you got to hit a home runner, got got
16:04
Speaker 1: struck out over time you went up the bat, but
16:06
Speaker 1: you remember that moment. And then when your mom rescued you,
16:09
Speaker 1: when you thought, uh you had in an entered early fatherhood.
16:14
Speaker 1: You know, those are two moments that really I bring
16:18
Speaker 1: up those two moments prayer because despite of all the
16:21
Speaker 1: things we do in our life, there are always memories
16:24
Speaker 1: that really some haunt people, some inspire people. Your father
16:28
Speaker 1: showing up for your game and your mom basically coming
16:32
Speaker 1: to the rescue because she did something that enabled you
16:35
Speaker 1: to relax. Talk about those two key moments of parenting.
16:39
Speaker 1: Even though your father wasn't there, that was a key
16:42
Speaker 1: parenting moment that he provided for you that stays with
16:45
Speaker 1: you today. It probably cares into your parenty with your
16:47
Speaker 1: with your children today and then your mom being there
16:50
Speaker 1: for you at a moment of doubt, frustration, fear. But
16:54
Speaker 1: both of them were there at different times. I mean,
16:57
Speaker 1: you're you're you're talking about Department book where I am.
17:01
Speaker 1: I almost became a teenage father. I was almost a
17:04
Speaker 1: statistic at the age of fourteen. Uh No, that's I
17:08
Speaker 1: made a a bad choice. I made a bad choice,
17:13
Speaker 1: and you know what I write about it because I
17:16
Speaker 1: wrote about it because I wanted people to understand. Uh,
17:19
Speaker 1: there but for the grace of God go I and
17:23
Speaker 1: and and and I think a lot of folks can
17:25
Speaker 1: relate to this, this idea that you know, there's that
17:28
Speaker 1: night or sometimes that day, but usually it's it's that
17:31
Speaker 1: night where you went left, but you could have gone
17:35
Speaker 1: right right right, and and and had you made a
17:39
Speaker 1: different decision, it would have altered the course of your
17:42
Speaker 1: life in a dramatic way. Um, that almost happened to me.
17:46
Speaker 1: I got lucky and and and at that point in
17:49
Speaker 1: my life, I was I didn't have much of relationship
17:52
Speaker 1: with my father. I was I was afraid of my mother. Uh,
17:57
Speaker 1: definitely afraid. I couldn't talk to her about it. And
18:01
Speaker 1: it was a situation where you know, this young lady
18:04
Speaker 1: was convinced she was pregnant, and I like, I had
18:07
Speaker 1: to I had to do something. This was not one
18:09
Speaker 1: of the situations where in action was an option. And
18:14
Speaker 1: uh and I write in the book about how I
18:15
Speaker 1: went to my my aunt, and it was my aunt
18:18
Speaker 1: that finally convinced me that I had no choice but
18:20
Speaker 1: to talk to my mother. But my mom has always
18:23
Speaker 1: been long before we started calling people fixers. My mom
18:27
Speaker 1: was a fixer like it was. It was that that
18:31
Speaker 1: obviously was an extreme example, but there were so many
18:33
Speaker 1: other times in my life where I thought I was
18:36
Speaker 1: out an option. I didn't know what I was gonna do,
18:39
Speaker 1: and I prayed to God and put trust in Betty
18:41
Speaker 1: Joe Melvine and and Betty Joe Melvine always came through
18:44
Speaker 1: and still does now. Mind you, in a different way,
18:47
Speaker 1: my dad, you know, rute about that, that that part
18:50
Speaker 1: in the book with Shan where he showed up at
18:52
Speaker 1: my little league game, and the memory steed with me
18:56
Speaker 1: because it was so rare to that point my dad.
18:59
Speaker 1: Uh And and again now looking back on it, knowing
19:03
Speaker 1: what we know about addiction, about it being a disease
19:06
Speaker 1: and not a weakness, I understand why he wasn't there.
19:09
Speaker 1: I understand why he had walled himself off from our
19:13
Speaker 1: family and society at large. But back then I was
19:17
Speaker 1: a kid, you know, I was a kid, and one
19:18
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19:21
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19:24
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19:27
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19:29
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19:31
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19:34
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19:38
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19:40
Speaker 1: My dad was right there with me on the sideline
19:44
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19:46
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20:00
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Speaker 1: the Forest dot org. Brought to you by the United
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Speaker 1: States Force Service and the ad Council. You know, UM
22:01
Speaker 1: it was. The book is um an emotional book. I
22:05
Speaker 1: would say emotional because I told people when I get
22:08
Speaker 1: a book like this, after slow read it, because sometimes
22:10
Speaker 1: they hit points where I go, oh ho, I'm about
22:12
Speaker 1: to about to go there and not let me finish
22:15
Speaker 1: this moment. And because I remember a moment with my dad,
22:19
Speaker 1: uh two when I owned a comedy club and my
22:23
Speaker 1: dad had never ever been to anything I've been, and
22:26
Speaker 1: he just showed up at the comedy club and uh
22:29
Speaker 1: it was sold out and I looked at the lobbists.
22:31
Speaker 1: What you're doing? Her? Dad? He goes, I come to
22:33
Speaker 1: see my son, and he looked around. He looked, wow,
22:37
Speaker 1: this you this you this you? And I went, uh, yes, sir, yes,
22:41
Speaker 1: sir you. Because I always said cirtain to my dad
22:44
Speaker 1: and uh he said. He he said, I'm proud of
22:47
Speaker 1: your son, and and and like I said, this is
22:51
Speaker 1: because that's what the book did to me as a dad.
22:53
Speaker 1: Because when you start talking about incarceration, and you talked
22:58
Speaker 1: about when you're talking, you said earlier, right, turn, left,
23:00
Speaker 1: turn those turns. I always say that. When I was
23:03
Speaker 1: in college, you know, you you played the fraternity. I
23:06
Speaker 1: played to make a side fire, and you always do
23:08
Speaker 1: stupid things. I remember the Big brothers said, we want
23:11
Speaker 1: some plants. Well, we didn't have no money, and so
23:14
Speaker 1: I remember just this giant open field where they had
23:17
Speaker 1: plants back in the day, and reminded the Lyon brothers.
23:19
Speaker 1: We went and stole these plants. Man. I mean, if
23:22
Speaker 1: you look back on the Craig from the freeway, you
23:25
Speaker 1: would have seen those running across this field with these plants. Okay,
23:29
Speaker 1: So anybody could have went, what are those black dudes
23:32
Speaker 1: boys doing running with all these giant plants. And I
23:35
Speaker 1: had a little Fiat X one nine, which is a
23:38
Speaker 1: two seater, and the truck was in the front, so
23:41
Speaker 1: I had to put the plants in the front. And
23:43
Speaker 1: it were black and my winsil so all along the
23:46
Speaker 1: way I could have stopped and stopped by the police
23:49
Speaker 1: and been incarcerated, and my life could have changed on
23:52
Speaker 1: that right turn left turn that you were talking about earlier.
23:55
Speaker 1: You are meeting men who've done something far worse than
23:58
Speaker 1: what I've talked about, but they have made a mistake.
24:01
Speaker 1: And sometimes because they've made a mistake, we don't give
24:03
Speaker 1: them a second chance because we feel that they're unworthy
24:06
Speaker 1: of that second chance. And then in your book you
24:09
Speaker 1: talk about guess what they are fathers too. Let's talk
24:12
Speaker 1: about their journey of you doing a story I think
24:16
Speaker 1: basically changed your life, and it started with Camp Grace. Yeah,
24:20
Speaker 1: it was one of the most impactful stories I've ever done. Uh,
24:23
Speaker 1: there's a I don't even remember how we found out
24:26
Speaker 1: about this camp, but um, I was probably reading some
24:29
Speaker 1: article in an obscure publication about this um summer camp
24:33
Speaker 1: at a maximum security prison in uh California. Salina's State
24:40
Speaker 1: Valley Prison was the name of the facility, and for
24:44
Speaker 1: one week every summer um they bring in about a
24:49
Speaker 1: dozen or so kids to basically have a camp experience
24:54
Speaker 1: with their dad's I mean, you know, arts and crafts,
24:56
Speaker 1: and they play games, and they sing songs and they
25:00
Speaker 1: do all this stuff. That do out of camp. And
25:02
Speaker 1: these kids are between the ages of you know, seven
25:05
Speaker 1: or eight and in fifteen or sixteen, and the guys
25:10
Speaker 1: who are part of the program have to UM exhibit
25:14
Speaker 1: good behavior for a full year. The camp is a
25:17
Speaker 1: it's a privilege. And UM. I went out and spend
25:21
Speaker 1: some time talking to these guys and it ended up
25:25
Speaker 1: being just an emotional day because these these are being
25:28
Speaker 1: First of all, most of them are not going to
25:31
Speaker 1: be getting out of prison. I mean they've some of
25:33
Speaker 1: them have have have been convicted of doing some pretty
25:36
Speaker 1: heinous things. UM. But the two women that started the camp,
25:42
Speaker 1: both of their husbands were incarcerated and consequently weren't really
25:47
Speaker 1: a part of the child's lives. They would get the
25:51
Speaker 1: occasional visit, you know, on a weekend and you've got
25:54
Speaker 1: the glass, and but they weren't able to really be
25:57
Speaker 1: a part of the child's lives. So they came up
25:58
Speaker 1: the side there for a camp and I talked to
26:00
Speaker 1: one of the guys out there, and I asked him
26:02
Speaker 1: the question I knew a lot of people are going
26:03
Speaker 1: to be asking when they watched them or read the story,
26:06
Speaker 1: how can someone um accused of some of the things
26:12
Speaker 1: these guys were accused of. How in what universe do
26:16
Speaker 1: they deserve the right to spend time with with it
26:21
Speaker 1: with the child. And without missing a beat, he said
26:24
Speaker 1: to me, tears in his eyes. Um, they might be right.
26:29
Speaker 1: I may not deserve it, but you know what, credit
26:32
Speaker 1: my kids do, Like my kids deserve to know their father.
26:35
Speaker 1: They didn't do anything wrong, They didn't make any bad choices. Uh.
26:41
Speaker 1: At his larger point, and I think this was just
26:43
Speaker 1: a valid If we're serious about stopping the prison pipeline
26:47
Speaker 1: that we always talk about, then we need to make
26:50
Speaker 1: sure that kids of of incarcerated individuals have relationships with them.
26:55
Speaker 1: He spent a fair amount of his time talking to
26:57
Speaker 1: his daughter about choice, this making good choices, not ending
27:02
Speaker 1: up where he ended up. It's a fantastic program, and
27:05
Speaker 1: it moved me. It also moved me, Sean because my grandmother,
27:10
Speaker 1: and it's the first line in the book. Not to
27:11
Speaker 1: give away too much, but you know my my grandmother.
27:14
Speaker 1: Uh Now, when I knew her, she was here, she
27:18
Speaker 1: was going to church, at the church or coming home
27:20
Speaker 1: from church. Like she she only loved the Lord, but
27:24
Speaker 1: apparently long before I came along. But this just just
27:28
Speaker 1: say she's a bootleg. I want to give it no
27:30
Speaker 1: more than that. Just say she's a bootleg. I don't
27:31
Speaker 1: want to give her the earther part. Okay, she's a bootlegger.
27:34
Speaker 1: She was a bootlegger. She was a bootlegger. And and
27:38
Speaker 1: and and got a second chance, Yes he did. And
27:41
Speaker 1: had she not gotten a second chance, who's to say
27:45
Speaker 1: whether I would be here right now, you know. But
27:48
Speaker 1: it is the thing I want to point out about
27:49
Speaker 1: that now, his grandmother was in the same jail that
27:53
Speaker 1: Martha Stewart was in. So she got how many chances
27:56
Speaker 1: as she's got, Okay, but in the same for Selity
28:00
Speaker 1: down and so so when I when I when I
28:02
Speaker 1: read the book and and and and and it's, like
28:05
Speaker 1: I said, an emotional journey because it's your story. But
28:08
Speaker 1: it's a relatable story because I remember when my younger
28:10
Speaker 1: brother was incarcerated in California and uh glass talking and
28:15
Speaker 1: uh and I was in tears, and and and he
28:17
Speaker 1: told me he couldn't cry. He's I reached. I can't cry.
28:21
Speaker 1: I keep they can't, he said, I kidd and my
28:24
Speaker 1: nicknames Ricky Ricky, I can't cry because they see me
28:26
Speaker 1: crying out here. I pay a price when I go
28:29
Speaker 1: back inside and in that book, you know, you know,
28:33
Speaker 1: when you interview and he said, look, he said, thank
28:35
Speaker 1: god I have a sale by myself because now I
28:39
Speaker 1: can't cry. And so I love the fact that you
28:42
Speaker 1: were humanizing people because we we see these we see this,
28:45
Speaker 1: we see the violent size, and nobody's trying to downplay that.
28:49
Speaker 1: But we have made mistakes. There are people on the
28:51
Speaker 1: other side of this that have to deal with the
28:53
Speaker 1: emotionalities of kids, and like one of them said, look, um,
28:57
Speaker 1: it's all right early on when you're playing all to
29:00
Speaker 1: you plan catch, but when it become teens, the conversation
29:03
Speaker 1: becomes different. And that's what fatherhood's all about, which leads
29:07
Speaker 1: to your whole life or being a father, being connected
29:11
Speaker 1: to your dad and not being a present day father.
29:13
Speaker 1: Let's talk about that great, you know it. I think
29:17
Speaker 1: that I think that you can be shaped by negative examples, um,
29:24
Speaker 1: just as much as you can be shaped by positive examples.
29:26
Speaker 1: In fact, I think in so many instances, maybe even
29:28
Speaker 1: more so so. You know, growing up, I didn't know
29:33
Speaker 1: the kind of man that I wanted to be. I
29:36
Speaker 1: didn't certainly know the kind of father that I wanted
29:38
Speaker 1: to be. But up until a few years ago, I
29:39
Speaker 1: knew I didn't want to be anything of anything like
29:42
Speaker 1: my dad. Yes, um and and and and that was
29:46
Speaker 1: what what motivated me personally and professionally, probably to a
29:49
Speaker 1: certain extent now that I'm talking about it. But no,
29:53
Speaker 1: it's it's it's funny because I have to remind my
29:56
Speaker 1: kids sometimes and I have a job, and and and
30:00
Speaker 1: consequently I cannot be at their back and call uh
30:05
Speaker 1: day and night. Because you know, when my dad was
30:07
Speaker 1: there when we were younger, it was it was big,
30:10
Speaker 1: like it was a wedding or funeral or graduation or
30:14
Speaker 1: that that Little League game that I write about that
30:16
Speaker 1: I remember because it was so weird. Dad didn't show
30:19
Speaker 1: up with stuff, in part because he worked third shift
30:21
Speaker 1: at the post office, but in larger part because because
30:25
Speaker 1: of the addiction issues that he had. UM. So as
30:29
Speaker 1: a result, I'm going to the other end of the spectrum.
30:31
Speaker 1: So if you know, I'm there for soccer games and
30:34
Speaker 1: my daughter had a gymnastics recital last Sunday morning, and
30:38
Speaker 1: you know, some I'm physically present as often as and
30:42
Speaker 1: as much as I can to you know, pick I
30:44
Speaker 1: do school pick up, and I'm trying to do it
30:47
Speaker 1: all because you know, my dad didn't do any other no. No.
30:50
Speaker 1: The problem that that that you create when you do that,
30:54
Speaker 1: and it took me a while to pigure this out.
30:56
Speaker 1: I've created expectations. So if if I'm not there to go,
31:01
Speaker 1: Daddy has got to travel for work, Well Daddy, why
31:04
Speaker 1: can't you can you take a later flight? And they
31:06
Speaker 1: can you go tomorrow? And I've had to say a
31:08
Speaker 1: few times, you know that it's the job that pays
31:13
Speaker 1: for all of this. You don't get to go to
31:17
Speaker 1: dance or you don't get to go the soccer if
31:20
Speaker 1: daddy's not hopping on playing. So that that's the that's
31:25
Speaker 1: the that's the the unfortunate part. But there you know
31:27
Speaker 1: they're starting to understand. But it's funny as you become
31:29
Speaker 1: a parent, how you at some point become you become
31:33
Speaker 1: the kind of for me at least, the kind of
31:36
Speaker 1: father that I used to mock. Yes, hate it when
31:38
Speaker 1: my dad would talk about, you know how much something costs.
31:42
Speaker 1: You don't have money, and and when we were younger,
31:46
Speaker 1: we didn't like he wasn't lying, Like we knew we
31:48
Speaker 1: didn't have a lot of money. We had enough with
31:51
Speaker 1: my kids, you know I've said a few times and
31:54
Speaker 1: we can't afford this, and myself and I'm missing the
31:56
Speaker 1: beetles say yes we can again and I'm like, and
32:02
Speaker 1: then you then you find yourself trying to come up
32:04
Speaker 1: with a new excuse like, uh, well maybe we can't
32:08
Speaker 1: afford it, but that we don't need it. You don't
32:10
Speaker 1: need that, right right, right, It's hard, And I know
32:16
Speaker 1: we're about to wrap up. I want to bring up
32:18
Speaker 1: a very um, a fun moment as a parent, and
32:21
Speaker 1: I want to share with you because you wrote about
32:23
Speaker 1: it when your son climbed into bed, and you know,
32:26
Speaker 1: and then your kids when they sleep. If you if
32:28
Speaker 1: you don't have kids children off you got a very
32:31
Speaker 1: young child. When they climb in the bed, they forget
32:34
Speaker 1: you in bed. They kids about the worst sleepers in
32:37
Speaker 1: the world, especially when they get that six to ten
32:39
Speaker 1: years of age were sleep And so when you said
32:43
Speaker 1: that in the book, you said you you may miss that.
32:47
Speaker 1: I remember I talked to my daughter when she was
32:49
Speaker 1: like seventeen. I said, hey, what you what your hopping
32:52
Speaker 1: bed and watch the TV? Ship what you're talking about?
32:54
Speaker 1: I said, you know, can we not watching TV? Can
32:57
Speaker 1: we not watch TV? Together? And then when used to go,
32:59
Speaker 1: I don't do that no more, Dad, No, no, we're
33:02
Speaker 1: not doing that. So I would tell you this, Craig,
33:05
Speaker 1: that moment brought brought laughter to me. It brought back
33:08
Speaker 1: memories as your book, you know, the amazingly good book
33:11
Speaker 1: Pops Learning to Be a Son and the Father Man. Uh,
33:13
Speaker 1: it's a great read. And like I said, it slowed
33:16
Speaker 1: me when I said the words slowed me because I
33:18
Speaker 1: was becoming emotional because, like I said, my father was
33:21
Speaker 1: a beer drinker. My father worked hard as a truck driver.
33:25
Speaker 1: My father, like I said, was he in my life?
33:27
Speaker 1: I don't know, But did he shape me to be
33:29
Speaker 1: the man I am today? Yes he did because he
33:31
Speaker 1: had a role in it and that that role has
33:34
Speaker 1: made me to be the man I am. I like
33:36
Speaker 1: to believe I'm a good parent to my daughter, a
33:38
Speaker 1: good husband to my wife. And those are the things
33:41
Speaker 1: that that the stories that you tell out of this book,
33:43
Speaker 1: from the incarcerated to individuals who raised you as a family,
33:48
Speaker 1: the community, and whether teachers who shaped you as third grade,
33:52
Speaker 1: teachers who shaped you as as you go through life
33:55
Speaker 1: and you went to school and you didn't wanna didn't
33:58
Speaker 1: want to shame your Ancle when you didn't play cap oppside,
34:02
Speaker 1: but it was all good man. I love your book, Craig.
34:04
Speaker 1: I want to appreciate you for putting it out there. Man,
34:07
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you for your time. I've enjoyed this conversation.
34:10
Speaker 1: You're very good at what you do. Thank you for
34:12
Speaker 1: having Okay, we talked soon, man, I'm gonna put this on.
34:15
Speaker 1: I got look, I got a nice little social media
34:16
Speaker 1: I'm gonna put that out there and my news letter.
34:18
Speaker 1: We're gonna get that out there for you. Okay, Craig,
34:22
Speaker 1: All right, bye bye. If you want to see you
34:24
Speaker 1: here in my interviews and money making Conversation, please go
34:27
Speaker 1: to want to Make a Conversation dot com. I'm with
34:29
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