Latest / The Pausecast / Ep 101 - VIP Michael Bungay Stanier - Do Great Work

Transcript

Ep 101 - VIP Michael Bungay Stanier - Do Great Work · The Pausecast

0:00
Hey you, I am so excited to bring out our podcast VIP,
0:07
Michael Bungay. Steiner, Stainer, I can't ever
0:10
get your name right, but I'm so excited because he has so much
0:14
wealth for all of us to learn from.
0:16
He helps leaders coach more, be better team players, and he's
0:21
just a world class guy and coach.
0:24
So I cannot wait for you to meet him, actually recorded years
0:26
ago. On episode 15 of The Pause Cast
0:30
and knowing we're kicking off season two, I thought he'd be
0:33
the perfect candidate to talk about how to do great work,
0:37
which is his expertise, how to get people to do that, and his
0:41
book, The Coaching Habit. He's going to lead us through a
0:44
pause and I'm just so excited because he is extraordinary.
0:49
Here we go. Hi, I'm Rachel O'meara, author
0:55
of Pause Harnessing the Life Changing Power of Giving
0:58
Yourself A Break. I'm excited that you're here
1:00
today and joining me on the PAUSE Cast where I interview
1:04
thought leaders in the world of raising our consciousness,
1:08
emotional intelligence, and helping us really reach our
1:12
potential. For more information, you can go
1:14
to my website, rachelomeara.com and download my free guidebook,
1:18
How to Turn or Not Into Thriving at Work.
1:28
Hello everyone, and welcome to the Pause Cast.
1:32
I'm Rachel O'meara, author of Pause Harnessing the Power of
1:37
Giving Yourself A Break. And today I am really excited to
1:41
have Michael Bungay Stanier with us to join us on the podcast
1:47
Hello Michael. Hey, Rachel, how you doing?
1:50
Great, great. And I'm going to do my best to
1:52
improve my slight Australian. Accent accident.
1:57
To make to match you, Yeah. And to give you all a little bit
2:02
of background about Michael. So Michael currently lives in
2:06
the Toronto area. Michael is the founder of Box of
2:11
Crayons. Box of Crayons is a company
2:14
known for teaching 10 minute coaching to busy managers and I
2:18
would suspect, anybody else who wants to learn how to coach.
2:20
So they can build stronger teams and get better results.
2:24
Michael left Australia 25 years ago to be a Rhodes Scholar at
2:29
Oxford University, where his only significant achievement was
2:33
falling in love with a Canadian. How lovely.
2:36
My mom is Canadian, which is why he now lives in Toronto, having
2:40
spent time in London and Boston. He's the writer of a number of
2:44
books. I have one right in front of me,
2:46
Me, which you may have seen called the coaching Habit.
2:50
He's a Wall Street Journal bestseller with this book.
2:52
It's sold over 350,000 copies. I literally just saw that last
2:57
week in O'Hare and kind of winked at it and has been
3:00
praised as one of the of of the few business books that makes
3:03
people laugh out loud. So that's exciting.
3:07
Michael, you were the first Canadian coach of the year,
3:10
which is pretty good for all the and recently named the number
3:15
three global guru in coaching. Wow, that's such.
3:19
Cool stuff. And so, balancing out all these
3:23
moments of success, accenting myself out now, Michael was
3:29
banned from his high school graduation for the balloon
3:32
incident, which where he was sued by one of his law school
3:36
lecturers for defamation. Whoa, we gotta hear hear that
3:40
story. And his first published piece of
3:42
writing was a Harlequin romance short story called The Mail
3:46
Delivery. Dying.
3:50
OK, So that was a really good insight into you a little bit,
3:54
Michael. So you got to share the balloon
3:56
incident, what happened? You know, I'm not going to tell
3:59
you. It's honestly a much better
4:01
story if you just imagine what the balloon incident might be,
4:05
yeah. OK, yeah, on that one.
4:08
OK, we'll leave that to our imagination.
4:09
Exactly. So much more powerful than the
4:12
actual story all. Right.
4:13
Thank you for that teasing that. Like what could that possibly
4:18
be? And so one thing we will do and
4:24
Michael, would you be so kind to lead us in a pause or
4:28
intentional shift in behavior as we kick off our call today?
4:32
I'd love to do that. You know, Rachel, I am a heady
4:35
guy that I live most of my life in my head and I've been trying
4:40
for exactly trying for years to be a little more body centered,
4:45
bit more body focused. So I'm forever trying to do
4:49
little things that just reconnect head and body.
4:53
Just knowing there's all that wisdom that lives in your body.
4:55
So this little centering piece is just to be become a bit body
5:00
centric as we arrive, so. For the folks that are listening
5:03
in, start with your feet and whether you're standing, whether
5:07
you're sitting, walking, driving.
5:10
Just feel your feet on the floor, whatever the floor is for
5:13
you. You might wiggle your toes a
5:18
bit, feel the outside of your feet, roll them in, roll them
5:23
out, but really get that sense of connection between you and
5:29
the ground. And then just trace your
5:34
awareness up through your feet, into your ankles.
5:39
Might flex your ankles a little bit.
5:43
My ankles, I don't bend a whole lot.
5:44
It's one of my challenges. But I can feel them.
5:48
I can move my ankles around, moving up your legs into your
5:52
thighs, maybe tense your thighs, relax your thighs.
5:56
Get a sense of your legs there. And then into your sit bones.
6:02
If sitting down, you'll really feel that you're settled.
6:05
If you're standing, you can just maybe touch them with your
6:08
hands. You've got a sense of where they
6:09
are in the space up through your belly.
6:15
I've got my hands under my belly.
6:16
You might do the same, just to feel the breath coming in,
6:21
coming out, deepening that breathing, lowering that
6:26
breathing. And move your attention up into
6:32
your chest, and through those into your shoulders.
6:39
So like me, you carry a ton of tension in your shoulders, so
6:42
you might shrug them, roll them, but just give your shoulders
6:47
your attention there. And now move your attention down
6:55
your arm, your right arm to your right hand.
6:59
Flex your fingers in and out. Get a sense of whether that hand
7:03
feels strong or a little weaker at the moment.
7:07
Grip it tight, shake it out. Move your attention through back
7:15
up your arm, across your chest, down your left arm, into your
7:19
left hand, and do the same. You know, clench it.
7:23
Feel whether it feels strong, feels a little weak.
7:25
It feels a little weaker for me in my left hand and my right
7:28
hand. Shake it out and then bring your
7:34
attention back to your chest, to your throat.
7:39
It's a place where we keep tension as well.
7:42
I'm going to relax my throat. I'm here to talk with Rachel, so
7:45
I want that to be open and then feel the pressure move up.
7:51
When your awareness move up into your head and your scalp and
7:55
into your face and feel your face relax, maybe smile.
8:04
Hey, you're listening to Rachel and Michael, Why wouldn't you
8:06
smile? And you're here now.
8:11
So welcome to this podcast conversation.
8:15
Thank you. Oh, that was lovely.
8:19
Taking one final breath and opening my eyes, I I want to
8:23
comment that I what I think is so unique and valuable for for
8:28
you and and others I've had who are pausing and leading a pause
8:32
is that there's just so many different ways to experiment
8:36
with that shift and going from the bottom up to my feet eyes is
8:42
that is kind of cool like a feeling that I feel like.
8:46
I just forget. I just forget my ankles can flex
8:49
and things like that and I remember my foot pain and yeah
8:52
that was that was really neat and and for anyone listening who
8:56
really isn't sure like I don't know if I can meditate.
8:58
It's not something for me. I'm too fidgety or whatever
9:01
those are I mean we just did it give yourself a pat on the back
9:05
and and thanks for for sharing that with us Michael.
9:09
That was really, really neat. Yeah, yeah.
9:12
And and then and the world of pause.
9:15
I talk a lot about emotional intelligence and intentional
9:19
shifts in behavior. So I would love to hear from you
9:24
because you are so focused as a, as a guru on coaching.
9:28
How do you think emotional intelligence fits in to
9:32
coaching? And like, what is it that you
9:34
you'd say is something that we can all learn about ourselves?
9:39
Just like being more emotionally intelligent.
9:41
It's a skill that I help and hope others can build piece by
9:45
piece and and we just love to hear your two cents on that.
9:48
Yeah, so let me do my cunning coaching thing.
9:51
I just want to turn the question on to you for a moment, and
9:53
here's what I want to ask. I was cunning.
9:56
But emotional intelligence is one of those phrases that we've
9:59
all heard and we use. But I find how people think
10:03
about it, or what it means to them, differs.
10:04
So tell me what you mean by emotional intelligence first, so
10:08
I've got a better chance of answering the question in a
10:10
useful way. Yeah.
10:12
OK. Great.
10:12
Well, so my sense is I think of it as the.
10:16
Pragmatic approach of the five components that Daniel Goldman
10:20
outlined, so it's self-awareness, self regulation,
10:23
motivation, empathy and not the fifth one, but like a
10:30
resilience. So it's like a common nature of
10:33
all those, but I think at the really heart of it, the
10:34
foundation is self-awareness and being tuned into how you feel so
10:38
that you can know and assess where you are plus be in
10:42
relationship with others. And and lead from a place of
10:45
that space for yourself and and for others, yeah.
10:48
Perfect. That's exactly how I think about
10:50
it as well, which is, are you able to see yourself and are you
10:54
able to make a decision about whether this is the way you want
10:57
to show up or whether you want to adjust that a little bit?
11:01
And I think coaching is a really interesting conversation.
11:03
You know, we, through the coaching habit, what I'm
11:06
championing for people to do is actually not become coaches.
11:11
You know, there's there's lots of ways to become a coach and
11:13
there's already lots of coaches out in the world.
11:15
What I'm trying to help people, but I'm just kind of normal
11:18
people is to become more coach, like.
11:22
And here's what I mean by that. I say, look, can you stay
11:25
curious a little bit longer? Can you rush to action and
11:29
advice, giving a little bit more slowly?
11:32
So that for me actually has a crux and it kind of lies in
11:36
emotional intelligence. Because what the metaphor we
11:39
play with that box of crayons is, can you tame your advice
11:44
monster? Because what I find is most
11:48
people are advice giving machines.
11:51
They love it. You're as soon as somebody
11:54
starts talking, you're kind of triggered immediately into the
11:57
oh, here's the idea, solution, opinion, suggestion that I have.
12:02
And I'm going to pretend that I'm listening to you, but I'm
12:04
just actually waiting for you to stop talking so I can leap in
12:07
and start telling you stuff. Yeah, or we're like the advice
12:12
giving asker machines who made just our autopilot.
12:16
We're like, what do you think I should do?
12:17
And you're just used to asking, so then you're going to have to
12:20
become someone. So this is the connection to
12:23
emotional intelligence for me, which is to say, can you start
12:27
noticing? How quickly you leap in to fix
12:31
things for other people. And of course there's a place
12:34
for advice giving and there's a place for solutions and there's
12:37
a place for all of that. But I'm just asking you to
12:41
notice and to just be in a position to say what if I slowed
12:47
down the opinion, I've got the advice I want to share and just
12:51
stay curious a little bit longer.
12:52
And that is a simple. But difficult habit to start
12:57
building into your life, because most of us are just wide to to
13:00
jump into advice giving, and we're not even aware of just how
13:03
easily triggered we might be. Yeah, yeah, that's really big.
13:08
I mean that's such a good reminder, very, very helpful.
13:12
And I know from your work you've talked about this, mentioned it,
13:16
the 10 minute coaching, what do you call it, the 10, the 10
13:20
minute? We teach people to coach in 10
13:22
minutes or less. Yeah, yeah.
13:25
So tell us about what that is and how is that different from
13:27
like what you were saying, just being a being a regular coach or
13:31
how is? That you so.
13:34
The work we do tends to be in organizations and it tends to be
13:37
helping managers and leaders be more coach like.
13:39
Although these tools are, you know, useful, if you, if you're
13:43
a person who interacts with other human beings anytime
13:45
during the day, you can use some of these tools.
13:48
But the way coaching is often bought into organizations is
13:51
somebody comes and goes, ah, this is amazing.
13:53
I just did a coaching course. It's fantastic.
13:56
I love it. I do.
13:57
I'm in HR or I'm in L&D or I'm in organizational development
14:01
and they come in and like coaching.
14:03
It's amazing. And actually a lot of the other
14:06
people in the organization going, you know, coaching a,
14:09
it's a bit of a weird HR thing and a look, I'm normal.
14:14
I just want to do my job and go home and see my family and have
14:17
a team that works. You know, I'm not so sure about
14:20
the coaching. So we find that most managers,
14:24
most leaders, most people have five points of resistance to to
14:29
coaching Sounds something like this.
14:31
The first thing they go is that like.
14:33
Look, I'm I I do not have time for this coaching malarkey.
14:37
I mean I've seen what coaching takes.
14:39
It's like, what is it, a 45 minute conversation once a week
14:43
or once every two weeks? I there's just no way that I can
14:46
have those long conversations with the people on my team and
14:49
of course at at boxer Crayons. What I say is I'm like, you're
14:52
right, you don't have time for a 45 minute conversation.
14:56
In fact if you can't coach in 10 minutes or less, you just don't
15:00
have time to coach. But of course, what they come
15:03
back with is they say, well, that's great, 10 minutes or less
15:05
sounds interesting, but I still don't have time for coaching
15:08
because, you know, I start early and I finish late.
15:11
And even when there are gaps in my calendar, I just, I know I've
15:15
got other things to do other than do this coaching stuff.
15:18
And we say, well, actually you're right.
15:21
You know, you don't have time to add coaching to what you're
15:25
already doing. But what we're suggesting is
15:28
coaching is transforming what you're currently doing.
15:32
So then they go, well, OK, that's interesting.
15:35
But here's the other thing. Seriously, do not turn me into a
15:39
coach. I've met coaches.
15:40
They're a bit odd and I don't. And you know, I've been
15:43
traumatized by a sports coach who shouted at me when I was a
15:46
kid. Or I think we've all had.
15:48
Traumatized by a life coach who who wore too many pastels and
15:53
sandal wood and overly hugged me in a brief?
15:55
Or traumatized by a I know an executive coach who coached me
15:59
out of my last job. I don't, I don't want to be a
16:03
coach. And of course we say to that,
16:04
look, no, you're right that we have enough coaches.
16:07
We want you to be you. But more coach like and to that
16:11
they go, well, that's intriguing, but honestly, I
16:15
don't know what you're even talking about.
16:16
What do you mean by more coach like?
16:18
And that's where we give them this definition.
16:20
Can you stay curious a little bit longer?
16:22
Can you rush to action and advice giving just a little bit
16:25
more slowly? Right.
16:27
And then they got one final objection.
16:29
They go well, OK, I get how coaching or being more coach
16:32
like is kind of a non weird everyday useful tool, but what's
16:37
in it for me? I mean, I get why it's good for
16:39
my organization. I get why it's good for my
16:41
people, but how's this going to make my life better?
16:45
And here's what we say and this aligns beautifully with the
16:47
commitment to pause that you you have.
16:50
It's like if you can be more coach, like it's a chance for
16:53
you to work less hard but actually have more impact in the
16:56
work that you do. And that gets people, if not
16:59
sold on the idea, at least curious about the idea and we
17:02
tend to go from there. Yeah, I I, I think my, my ears
17:07
opened up as you said that too saying oh wow, well, yeah, of
17:11
course I want more impact. What will that mean?
17:13
How does that work so? Very, very interesting.
17:17
Yeah. And I love, I love the idea of a
17:19
10 minute or less and it sounds like that's just your how you've
17:23
how you've consolidated what you're doing and I super agree.
17:27
I feel like 15 minutes, 10 minutes is a is not a lot of
17:32
time but there's could be a lot you dig into and and.
17:35
And I think people don't really think about it like that.
17:39
So it's a myth. You're busting A myth there.
17:42
Well, there's there's actually research that says there's no
17:44
correlation between the quality and the output of a coaching
17:48
conversation and the length of it.
17:49
And you kind of drop off value after about 10 minutes.
17:53
So there's some research around that.
17:56
But more importantly, it's about just recognizing the reality of
17:59
most of our busy lives, which is most of us just don't have time
18:02
for coaching if it's a long, elaborate thing.
18:05
How do you make it simple and practical and useful and feel
18:08
like an everyday way of being with each other that helps both
18:12
sides of the party? You know it's not just useful
18:15
for the person who's answering the questions, but can actually
18:18
help make a life better for the person asking the questions.
18:22
As well, yeah, yeah. And and I know you and I talked
18:25
a little bit before the call to think about what we would talk
18:29
about. And I was wondering how this
18:32
could benefit someone. So for example.
18:35
As a result of doing a 10 minute coaching session, what can
18:38
happen? And can you share a little bit
18:40
about results? Like what?
18:42
What is it that people are finding or how?
18:44
If, if this was something that I could apply in my own life and
18:47
start coaching people for 10 minutes, if I read your book,
18:49
what what happens? So it's interesting when people
18:53
ask that question, quite often about coaching.
18:55
The focus goes on. Let me tell you what happened to
18:58
my client. It was amazing.
18:59
They did this. They wrote that book.
19:01
They climbed this mountain. Things were different for them.
19:04
And that's cool. That is a great success around
19:06
coaching. But for us, the the outcome
19:10
needs to work on both sides of the equation.
19:13
So you hope in showing up being more coach like.
19:17
And you know the coaching habit's a short book.
19:19
It's a fast read. It says look, if there, if you
19:21
start using 7 great questions and the questions are in the
19:25
book and you build them into a habit, then that's going to
19:27
change the way you leave forever.
19:29
And I you know. I saw those in the in the in the
19:32
book and and actually so anyone who's looking for this book,
19:35
it's a cute little blue and yellow kind of pocketbook, but
19:40
it's it's big enough like a 5 by 7 inches or so.
19:43
But yeah, these great questions. So it's the lazy question, the
19:46
strategic question, the focus question, Very fascinating.
19:50
So what you're helping people to do by asking those questions is.
19:54
Figure out what the real challenge is.
19:56
Have them working on the stuff that matters.
19:58
Figure out what they want so they're getting what they want
20:00
out of the outcome. Helping them learn so they
20:03
become smarter and more competent and more confident.
20:06
All of that happens when you're more coach.
20:08
Like with the other person, they they grow.
20:11
They grow in autonomy and confidence and incompetence.
20:14
That's great, but here's what I want for the person asking the
20:18
questions now, our three principles are Be lazy.
20:24
Be curious, be often, and be lazy is a bit provocative
20:27
because, you know, I'm basically guessing people who listen to
20:31
this podcast aren't inherently lazy people.
20:34
We're recovering overachievers, actually.
20:36
There we go. But you know, be Lazy is so
20:39
beautifully aligned with the purpose here, which is like you
20:42
need to stop working so hard and you need to give the space to
20:45
the other people so they're able to do the work and do the
20:48
learning that they're hungry for and that you want for them as
20:52
well. So the outcome for the person
20:55
being more coach, like is they get to it's kind of work less
20:59
hard and have more impact. You know, they get to not feel
21:02
obliged to jump in and solve it for people the whole time.
21:05
They get to see the people grow and take greater responsibility.
21:09
They get to spend more time working on the work that matters
21:11
most to them, what I would call the great work, work that has
21:15
more impact, work that has more meaning.
21:18
So that's what I hope for. I mean in the end, Rachel, it's
21:21
like. How do you show up as a human
21:24
being in the work that you do? How do you have impact in the
21:27
work that you do? How do you find meaning?
21:29
How do you have impact? Those are the two things that we
21:31
are all hungry for and at its best, being more coach like
21:36
allows both people in that conversation to have more impact
21:39
and to do work that has more meaning.
21:42
Gotcha. Well, all of that I I I just,
21:46
I'm so more curious now to. Try it like it's I want to be
21:50
lazy as a coach. Yeah, that sounds exactly.
21:52
And I don't want to solve it for them.
21:53
That's super helpful and and I'm curious now as I'm allowing
21:58
myself to be curious, kind of taking us back.
22:01
How did you start out in all this work?
22:03
Were you a coach to begin with? I know, I know I didn't set out
22:07
to be a coach and now I'm a coach.
22:08
What? How did you end up with building
22:11
this out for yourself? So, you know, I was when I was a
22:15
teenager. I was just one of those guys who
22:19
was good at listening. And of course teenagers are
22:22
endlessly talking about their angst filled lives and I was
22:24
listening to my friends going my boyfriend blah blah blah, my
22:29
girlfriend blah blah blah. And I was good at listening.
22:32
But I I just thought to myself, I don't really know what I'm
22:35
doing here. I mean, the listening helps, but
22:37
is there isn't there? Is there more to it than that?
22:40
And what that meant is when I went to university, I actually
22:44
did some crisis telephone counseling training.
22:48
So, you know, kind of manned suicide hotlines and the like.
22:51
And I did that through my university years, first in
22:53
Australia, then when I went to Oxford.
22:55
And it just was a way of me starting to develop that muscle
23:01
around questions and support and being present for people.
23:05
And then when I got my first job and I was in England at the
23:08
time, it was kind of like this, the rise of coaching.
23:11
We're all looking at the West Coast of of the States and
23:15
going. Yeah, there's something odd and
23:17
weird happening over there. And, you know, we're in London,
23:20
so we pretty much don't trust it.
23:22
But I was like, this is interesting.
23:24
There's something, something curious going on there.
23:26
And then when I moved to the stage to work, I hired my first
23:31
coach when I said see what this is like.
23:33
And while she wasn't a great coach, she was good enough to
23:36
make me go. You know what, There is
23:38
something interesting here that perhaps I could be part of
23:41
because I've got a I've got an inclination towards it.
23:44
So I actually started reframing the work I was doing with my
23:47
clients as as coaching when I moved to Toronto in 2001.
23:52
I did my coach training with the Coach Training Institute, CTI
23:57
built a coaching practice and then weirdly discovered that
24:01
actually, I after all of that, I didn't love coaching that much.
24:05
I found it when it was my, when it was my main business.
24:09
I just found it a bit lonely, actually.
24:13
And I'm as as people may guess, I'm a bit of a performer.
24:16
I like the drama and it felt like I didn't get a chance to to
24:21
focus on my own work enough. So I closed down my coaching
24:25
practice, but started training people in practical coaching
24:29
skills and that's really how the boxer Crown's brand got built.
24:33
Yeah that's really cool and and I want to mention too I know you
24:36
and I met through our mutual friend Jenny Blake who's also
24:39
been on the pause cast and really grateful that she kind of
24:43
linked us together. Because I I feel like I have a
24:46
lot to learn from you myself as a a coach and and just the
24:49
philosophy that you had and I too am really fascinated.
24:52
I I know my training with the right foundation has been in one
24:56
of them is the human potential and things that were on the West
25:00
Coast and for for a couple decades.
25:03
And learning about people like Abraham Maslow and now positive
25:08
psychology and everything. So it's super relevant, I think.
25:12
And even if you're just a business person out in the
25:15
world, this is how we can Orient now.
25:17
And gosh, it's just really neat to bring it all together.
25:21
Yeah. Yeah.
25:22
Do you think everyone needs a coach?
25:24
Just curious about that one. I know, I don't.
25:28
I don't think everybody needs a coach all the time, I think.
25:31
Everybody probably need your coach some of the time.
25:35
I mean at it's, I mean if you are doing really well, a coach
25:41
can help you do better. If you're struggling, a coach
25:43
can help you out of the struggle.
25:46
There's some things that coaches can't do.
25:48
I mean one of the things is if you're you know you've got some
25:50
real damage. The difference between therapy
25:53
and coaching is, is there and you know one of the concerns I
25:58
always have is when coaches. Potentially swim out into water
26:04
that may be a little too deep for them.
26:06
And so there are some things that people work with and
26:09
struggle with that are well beyond coaching and require a
26:14
more medical or therapeutic approach.
26:17
But it's like you have somebody have a coach.
26:19
I mean, at the minimum they're holding time for you to think
26:24
stuff through. Nobody is going to, nobody can
26:27
go. I've just got too much time to
26:29
think stuff through and I don't need any help with that.
26:33
Totally. Yeah, that's cool.
26:35
I like, I like that philosophy. And one of the things that I
26:38
help others with is basically turning overwhelm into thriving,
26:45
whether it's at work or somewhere else and and like,
26:47
managing stress. So what would you say?
26:51
How do you help people? Like, let's say there's a,
26:53
there's a manager out there and like, I don't know, like kind of
26:55
what you were saying earlier, like, I'm, I just don't have
26:56
time for this. I don't care if it's a minute or
26:58
10 minutes or an hour. I'm just overwhelmed.
27:00
And, like, they just really can't see through the, like,
27:03
they're in the forest, they can't see the trees, so to
27:05
speak. Can you offer any insights on
27:08
how how to turn overwhelm into thriving or being at least in a
27:13
place that is open to those possibilities?
27:16
It's hard. But there's there's two levels
27:21
to do the work at. There's there's the tactics
27:24
level and you can probably Google how to manage over, you
27:28
know, 10 easy steps to managing overwhelming, You'll get at
27:31
least 10 tactics. And then you Google another 10
27:34
steps for managing overwhelming, you get another 10 tactics.
27:36
So there's 1000 tactics that you can try.
27:39
And that really depends on what you're overwhelmed look like.
27:43
What sort of person are you, What's your wiring?
27:45
What's your preference? Then you may find some stuff
27:48
that really works for you there. But here's the deeper work, and
27:52
it's the harder work, but it's the foundational work.
27:55
It's about learning how to say no and knowing how to say no,
28:02
with the recognition that when you say no, you will disappoint
28:06
people. There will people who will be
28:09
snippy or upset or let down or angry or frustrated.
28:15
And the choice you face is, do I sacrifice myself in order to be
28:23
nice and to be liked by people or do I get clear on what do I
28:27
want? That's why that's the foundation
28:29
question in the book. What do I want?
28:31
And do I get clear about what I must say no to, so I can say yes
28:37
to the stuff that matters? That's another question in the
28:39
book, the strategy question. What am I going to say no to?
28:42
And if I'm saying no, what must I say yes to and vice versa?
28:46
So those are the two hard questions which what do I want?
28:51
And if I want that, what am I going to say yes to and what
28:54
must I say no to for that yes to, to to be real.
28:57
And that lays, that's the that's the hard truth.
29:02
And after that you go, So what are the tactics that will
29:05
support me delivering on this commitment to getting what I
29:08
want? Wow, I I'm so reminded of so
29:13
much right there. Yeah, I I think that's such a
29:16
great point and saying no is something I personally have
29:20
still working on and will probably be for a while, but.
29:24
Me too. I'm much better at telling other
29:27
people how to say no rather than saying it myself.
29:29
But it's a it's a muscle. Like you get better at it when
29:33
you practice it. Yeah, I think that's right on
29:36
and. Report important for
29:39
perspective. You know it's not like a one and
29:40
done thing and it's like I'm just going to say no and all
29:44
this will be great and it's like no it's it's not that easy and
29:47
and it's about giving yourself some support and self compassion
29:51
to just really know that it's a shift when you talk a lot about
29:54
creating new habits and and and that's one of them is to create
29:58
a habit of checking in to know what is your boundary.
30:01
So thank you for that insight that's really helpful in terms
30:05
of. What you're working on and and
30:09
really things in in in the box of crayons land what are some Do
30:14
you have any resources or where we can find more out about you
30:17
Michael and anything you can kind of stumble upon for for
30:21
knowing more I think this is great.
30:23
Thanks for asking. So if you're intrigued about the
30:25
book, I mean it is available in lots of bookstores.
30:28
It's actually sold closer to half a million copies now.
30:30
So it's around in the world to Amazon or whatever, but.
30:35
You go to thecoachinghabit.com, that's the website for the book
30:38
and there's a lot of free stuff there, including I think the 1st
30:42
4 chapters of the books. You can download that for free
30:45
and podcasts and downloads and bits and pieces there.
30:49
If you want to find out more about me, my full name is
30:51
Michael Bungaystanya. I have a double barrelled
30:54
surname Bungaystanya, so Michael bungaystanya.com and there's a
30:59
couple of downloads there that you can grab for free.
31:01
And if you happen to be an L&D person with a vast budget and
31:06
you're like, I need to bring this person into my
31:08
organization, Well, box of crowns.com is where we talk
31:11
about our programs that we bring into organizations.
31:16
OK, great. So I'll put those links up on
31:19
the page with your, with your information when we publish the
31:24
pause cast so everyone can click on that and look at it in more
31:27
detail. Thank you.
31:29
And I think one thing I think I'll leave with on the on this
31:33
note is how do you, I'm curious how do you engage in your own
31:36
transformation, Michael, what do you do?
31:40
Well, there's for me, there's not just one thing that works.
31:43
It's about trying out stuff and finding what sticks.
31:48
The thing that's kind of I've been most committed to for the
31:52
longest is I have a mastermind group.
31:54
So it's me and four other people we've been together for, I think
31:58
11 years now. As a group, we check in on the
32:02
web boards with each other three to five times a week, just kind
32:06
of going, here's what I'm up to today and he's what I'm working
32:08
on. We talk 2 * a month for an hour
32:12
and a half and we kind of coach each other or bring challenges
32:15
to the phone. And then once a year we meet for
32:18
three or four days to do personal work and you know, hang
32:21
out with each other because we like each other.
32:23
So that mastermind group has been extremely powerful for me
32:26
and. I imagine you've been doing that
32:29
for some time. If you've been in the business
32:31
for a while, that's super. Inspiring and I think a great
32:36
testament to We need others to help ourselves move into our
32:41
potential. Yeah, I mean, I love these guys
32:42
because they they know my. Yeah, I'm absolutely unable to
32:48
fool them about anything. You know, every time I go, I'm
32:50
going to do this. Yeah.
32:51
Yeah, we've seen that before. In fact, we've seen that 100
32:54
times before. So you're fooled nobody.
32:56
Just nice try, Michael. Nice try, exactly.
33:01
Very cool. Well, Michael, thank you so much
33:04
for being on the podcast today. It was a pleasure light to have
33:07
you here and appreciate all your insights and wisdom.
33:10
Thank you so much. My pleasure.
33:12
Thanks for having me, Rachel. Thanks for listening today.
33:20
I'm Rachel O'meara, the author of Pause Harnessing the Life
33:24
Changing Power of Giving Yourself a Break.
33:27
Now that you've had a chance to listen to the pause cast, I want
33:31
to invite you to continue the conversation and join the.
33:34
Private Facebook group be the pause.
33:37
You can search for it on Facebook or go to
33:39
facebook.com/groups/be the pause.
33:42
It's also in the pause cast notes for this episode.
33:47
Also, if you are struggling with overwhelm or being stressed out
33:51
at work and you're not really sure what to do next, I invite
33:54
you to download the free guide book for the. 3 keys to turn
34:00
Overwhelmed into thriving at work.
34:03
This is on my website, rachelomeara.com and you can
34:07
download it there today. See you soon.
34:26
Ziva Meditation is our sponsor for this pause Cast episode.
34:30
My meditation teacher and author Emily Fletcher created the Ziva
34:35
Meditation self-care Center. It's full of powerful tools to
34:38
help you go from worrier. To Warrior, it's a great way to
34:44
get started and get to know how meditation can serve you.
34:48
Her 15 day course Ziva Online is something you may want to look
34:52
into at some point In what I've also taken.
34:54
Inside the Ziva self-care Center are literally thousands of
34:59
resources for you, including visualizations, weekly
35:02
recordings of her calls, global meditations, body work, guest
35:06
experts, and tools for kids and parents.
35:10
And the best part is, it's all free.
35:12
To get started, head over to tinyurl.com.
35:16
Pause. Ziva Selfcare.
35:19
That's tinyurl.com. Pause.
35:21
Pausc, Ziva Selfcare. All one word.
35:25
Ziva Selfcare to get access today.
35:27
So my favorite one right now just to share, is this
35:30
manifering versus manifesting recording.
35:33
You've got to watch it.