Latest / The Lila Rose Show / E234: Struggling with Parenting or Marriage? This 2,000-Year-Old Tool Could Fix It w/Art and Laraine Bennett | Lila Rose Show

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E234: Struggling with Parenting or Marriage? This 2,000-Year-Old Tool Could Fix It w/Art and Laraine Bennett | Lila Rose Show · The Lila Rose Show

• 0:00
  What are the temperaments and why they matter?
• 0:02
  One of the things that temperaments is really great at
• 0:04
  it, it puts a pause, is a temptation to judge somebody
• 0:07
  who's different from you as being bad.
• 0:09
  Can your temperament change as you age and mature?
• 0:12
  We kind of know intellectually that everybody's different, but
• 0:14
  until I knew about temperaments, I really did think art was just
• 0:18
  like me, only bad. That it is the least self
• 0:21
  confident temperament. They're the nicest, they get
• 0:23
  along with people, they're cooperative.
• 0:25
  But that's the challenge. It's so powerful because once
• 0:27
  you get a sense for what is the motivating approach for this
• 0:31
  unique human being, you can unlock greatness.
• 0:33
  You can unlock so many things. Do you know your temperament?
• 0:40
  Did you know that understanding your temperament and the
• 0:43
  temperament of the people that you love or the people that you
• 0:45
  work with can be a huge key to unlocking better relationships
• 0:49
  and your own personal growth? Today in the Lila Rose Show, I
• 0:52
  sit down with Art and Lorraine Bennett, who are the authors of
• 0:55
  multiple books on temperaments, including the flagship book, The
• 0:59
  Temperament That God Gave You. Art is also a family and
• 1:02
  marriage therapist, as well as the former CEO of Catholic
• 1:05
  Charities and other organizations, and his lovely
• 1:08
  wife Lorraine is an author, speaker, and a master's in
• 1:11
  philosophy. Also, thank you all so much for
• 1:14
  your incredible support of the Lila Rose Show and this growing
• 1:17
  community. I'm so excited that we are at
• 1:19
  over 300,000 subscribers here on YouTube and growing every single
• 1:23
  day. Please share this podcast with a
• 1:25
  friend, Make sure you yourself are already subscribed and share
• 1:28
  it with other people. It helps the show grow.
• 1:30
  And if you're listening on podcast app, don't forget to
• 1:33
  leave us a review, give us five stars that also helps the
• 1:36
  podcast reach more people. Art and Lorraine Bennett, thank
• 1:39
  you so much for joining the podcast.
• 1:40
  Thank you so much for having us. Honored to be really an honor to
• 1:44
  be here. This is a treat for me because I
• 1:46
  first read your books at least 15 years ago, if not longer.
• 1:50
  Yeah. And I think I was one of the
• 1:52
  first people reading them because they were.
• 1:54
  That's when they first came out. Yeah. 20 years ago. 20 years
• 1:56
  ago. Yeah, Yeah, yeah.
• 1:57
  So maybe not the first, but yeah, I, I was to the first.
• 2:00
  I was so excited to discover the temperaments through your books.
• 2:04
  And I was so benefited by it. All my relationships have been
• 2:07
  benefited by it. My relationship with my husband
• 2:09
  is now benefited by it. My own children.
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  So you've got this incredible treasure, and I'm just thrilled
• 2:14
  to dive in with you all. Thank you.
• 2:16
  So much thank you. Very nice to say, yeah.
• 2:19
  For folks who are meeting you for the first time, give us a
• 2:22
  little bit of each of your background and also
• 2:24
  congratulations on almost 50 years married.
• 2:26
  Thank you. Thank you.
• 2:27
  That's very, very awesome. You wanna?
• 2:29
  Go first. Yeah, well, or you go first.
• 2:33
  I'm. Phlegmatic.
• 2:33
  So I'll do it in total. Yeah.
• 2:36
  So I'm a licensed as a marriage therapist, but I it's been half
• 2:40
  my professional life working for profits.
• 2:42
  And then 2002 I started Co founded the Alpha Omega Clinic,
• 2:47
  which was attempt to integrate the Catholic faith with mental
• 2:49
  health in Northern Virginia and in DC and Maryland.
• 2:54
  And it turned out to be pretty successful and I really enjoyed
• 2:57
  it worked well. And then I was asked and I
• 2:59
  interviewed and became the president and CEO of Catholic
• 3:01
  Charities for the Diocese of Arlington.
• 3:04
  And now I'm back in private practice of having retired from
• 3:07
  that, seeing clients mostly marriage and couples therapy
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  where you have 4 kids, all married, all with kids.
• 3:13
  We have 11, soon be 12 grandkids.
• 3:16
  So we're very blessed. And that we live in Northern
• 3:18
  Virginia. Yeah.
• 3:19
  Awesome, yeah. Well, you, yeah, well, I'm not
• 3:22
  as as distinguished, but. So I let's see, I have a masters
• 3:28
  in philosophy and well, we've been married for almost 50
• 3:33
  years. Wow.
• 3:35
  And yeah. So most of the time I was a
• 3:39
  homemaker and but I've, I was always also writing.
• 3:43
  So I always had these little side jobs of, of whatever I was,
• 3:49
  you know, blogging for Catholic match for a long time and that
• 3:53
  was one of them. Eventually we, we stumbled on
• 3:57
  the, the temperaments. Well, he, because of his
• 4:02
  background in psychology and me, I had been reading a book by
• 4:07
  Jordan Aman, a Dominican, who it was called Spiritual Theology.
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  And it introduced me to the temperaments from Christian
• 4:18
  perspective. And I hadn't realized the
• 4:21
  underpinning of the faith in terms of the temperament, how
• 4:26
  useful it was in terms of the spiritual life and just just our
• 4:30
  daily life and raising kids and all that kind of stuff.
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  And that's, that really kind of fired me up.
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  And that's when we started writing the, the book and the
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  first book anyway. And then we subsequently wrote
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  three books on temperament and a game, and several other books on
• 4:48
  other subjects. So you have these three flagship
• 4:52
  books, we can call them the temperament God Gave you, the
• 4:54
  temperament God gave your spouse, and then the temperament
• 4:56
  God gave your children. And all of them provide a share
• 5:01
  of framework of temperaments and today personality tests and
• 5:06
  assessments and understanding how you show up in the
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  workplace. I mean, all of these tools to
• 5:12
  try to understand oneself and other people so we can work
• 5:15
  together, I think are very popular.
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  But I, I have the sense that temperaments seem to be a kind
• 5:21
  of a forgotten art and some people aren't even aware of what
• 5:24
  they are, how they work. So first give us a just overview
• 5:30
  of what are the temperaments and why they matter.
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  And I'm throwing a lot out here all at once, but also the
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  history here because this is a framework that far precedes a
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  lot of the tools and the tricks that people use today.
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  That's an ancient framework. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
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  Goes all the way back to Hippocrates, father of medical
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  science, and he was the one we think to 1st use the words the
• 5:54
  of the temperaments that we use in our books.
• 5:56
  But the choleric or choleric, melancholic, sanguine and
• 6:01
  phlegmatic. And we think he was the very
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  first and he's ascribed it to certain parts of the body, you
• 6:08
  know, bodily functions or whatever.
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  But subsequently it, it definitely it, we had this long
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  history and a venerable history even within the church.
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  And do you want to? Take Yeah.
• 6:22
  Tell us what are the four temperament?
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  Yeah. Yeah, I think like Lorraine
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  said, well, the four temperaments that we talk about,
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  and by the way, most psychologists will not use the
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  four temperaments as we describe them, the cleric and the
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  melancholic and the sanguine and the phlegmatic, but they'll use,
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  they'll be studying reactivity. Temperaments is the science of
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  reactivity. How do people tend to react with
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  the same or different stimuli? And so therefore it's very, very
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  important. And the church is always kind of
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  taken to it because it allows free will.
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  So it's not, it's kind of alternative to behaviorism,
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  which is you're nothing but your environment makes you into.
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  And it's also a little bit grounded in in the human body.
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  So, so the four temperaments are I'll, I'll, I'll go through a
• 7:01
  couple, a couple. Sure.
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  Yeah. So the phlegmatic is the
• 7:04
  temperament, which is really just trying to get along it It's
• 7:08
  it's the ideal of the phlegmatic.
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  I am a phlegmatic. So I know it well is really just
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  try to cooperate with people, integrate with people, be a team
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  player, not call too much attention to myself and and kind
• 7:20
  of make things work. That the the asset of course,
• 7:23
  with that beautiful temperament is team player cooperation.
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  You always need that, right? The challenge for the
• 7:30
  phlegmatic, however, is interpersonal conflicts.
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  Phlegmatics are the least naturally confident, so
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  sometimes they're at least naturally competent and they
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  have low self worth sometimes. So when they see stress or
• 7:42
  difficulties they sometimes can back up on it.
• 7:44
  So that's what they need to change and grow.
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  Another temperament would be, let's say the melancholic.
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  The melancholic have this beautiful interest in the ideals
• 7:53
  of life, truth, beauty, grace, freedom.
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  They really believe in that stuff and they really focus on
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  it different than a goal where you're just kind of knocking
• 8:01
  something off. These are high ideals.
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  So, so thank God there's a, there's a temperament that
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  really loves that and thinks about it all the time and that
• 8:09
  really energizes everything and everyone does.
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  So say someone's keeping the ideals on the front page so we
• 8:14
  can all grow. The challenge for the the
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  melancholic though, is they sometimes can be
• 8:18
  perfectionistic. Well, this isn't quite living up
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  to what I thought. Or this is, this comes a little
• 8:22
  bit short and they get deterred by that.
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  Or ambiguity can sometimes puzzle a melancholic, oh, why
• 8:27
  are things working out better or why doesn't our marriage better
• 8:29
  or what's going on? So that's, that's the challenge
• 8:31
  for the melancholic. Yeah, yeah.
• 8:33
  Yeah. And in terms of reaction, so
• 8:36
  like the choleric or choleric, it's, you can say it either way.
• 8:40
  I've looked it up many times and it is they have quick, intense
• 8:45
  and long lived reactions. So they tend to be decisive and
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  tenacious and driven to follow through, very persevering.
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  They set a goal and they, you know, follow it.
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  And sometimes they're accused of rolling over people and as
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  they're, you know, in the process of getting to the goal
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  or, or of being argumentative and loving to debate.
• 9:07
  You know, I, I like to say that our love languages arguments.
• 9:12
  No, but it's, it's just that we do, we do like to, we do enjoy a
• 9:17
  debate. You're saying we are you a
• 9:18
  caller? Yes, OK.
• 9:20
  So I do. Come out already, OK.
• 9:23
  Do enjoy a debate, a good debate.
• 9:25
  It's like, let's let's argue about this, you know, but not in
• 9:28
  a mean sense, but anyway, OK, and then so let's see anyway.
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  So intense long lived and reactions.
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  And then the sanguine has intense reactions and quick
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  reactions, but shortlived O they tend to be very enthusiastic at
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  the outset. Very, oftentimes impulsive,
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  very, you know, optimistic and hopeful and generous and
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  spontaneous. And they're the life of the
• 9:57
  party and they love to talk and all this kind of stuff, but they
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  can be forgetful. And they're like butterflies
• 10:04
  that flit from flower to flower, you know?
• 10:07
  And there's they, they have one when they're kids, they start
• 10:12
  one, they have one hobby that they love or they want to take
• 10:16
  up tennis. And then next week it's golf.
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  And they've dropped tennis and you bought all the tennis
• 10:21
  equipment and now it's golf. And now I have to buy golf clubs
• 10:24
  too, you know, And then a week later it's on to something else,
• 10:27
  you know. So they tend to have that, that
• 10:30
  quick, intense, but short lived. And then to go back, kind of go
• 10:34
  back to where we started with the phlegmatic, they have that
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  even keel reaction. That's what makes them.
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  So they're so chill. Like they're the people that you
• 10:42
  say, Oh my gosh, what a nice guy.
• 10:45
  He's so chill. I just, you know, what a great
• 10:47
  guy. That's what we.
• 10:50
  So you're you're a phlegmatic. That's what I when I first met
• 10:53
  him, I was like. Wow, phlegmatic and.
• 10:55
  Also, gosh, he was so deep. He was so interested.
• 10:58
  Do opposites often attract? You're phlegmatic.
• 11:00
  You're caller. You say these are.
• 11:01
  Oftentimes. I mean.
• 11:03
  But not always. Yeah, definitely.
• 11:04
  Not always, but often, yeah. It's summertime, it's the time
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  But like in a business, let's say you have a business, you
• 12:19
  want someone who can really get the big vision in the picture.
• 12:22
  That's usually the leader, you know, And because we have to see
• 12:24
  where we're going and how we're going to get there and all that,
• 12:26
  but you have to have somebody watching all the little details
• 12:27
  of the bills being paid or this thing.
• 12:29
  So to have a well roundedness, I think strengthens relationships
• 12:34
  overall. On the other hand, when you do
• 12:36
  meet someone with your same temperament, that's where you're
• 12:38
  like, God, what a connection. Show some patch code.
• 12:40
  Yeah, Long. Or sometimes you're gonna be
• 12:42
  opposite, a little edgy, not sure.
• 12:45
  Another thing, all that gets worked out.
• 12:47
  So I don't think there's any hard and fast rule.
• 12:50
  You know, even think about our kids.
• 12:51
  Some of them, yeah, they're the same temperament.
• 12:53
  Some are the opposite. But they're all seem to be
• 12:55
  happily married. So the.
• 12:56
  The ones who married the extrovert, the extroverts who
• 12:59
  got married, the cleric sanguine.
• 13:00
  Who married a cleric sanguine. Yeah, they had the biggest
• 13:03
  wedding party you have ever seen.
• 13:05
  The photographer couldn't get all the bridesmaids and that is
• 13:08
  groomsmen in the picture. So the choleric and the sanguine
• 13:11
  are the extroverts, and the melancholic and the phlegmatic
• 13:14
  are the introverts. They're largely speaking, this
• 13:16
  is exactly how we. See it and and so is the is the
• 13:18
  sort of framework that everybody has a dominant one of these four
• 13:23
  and then they have a secondary that is not as dominant or how
• 13:26
  do? You see that probably or maybe
• 13:28
  equally, you know, it could be it.
• 13:30
  I don't think it's like a science.
• 13:32
  So it's not. It's like you could, you could
• 13:34
  be 5149. I don't know.
• 13:38
  You know it's not. I mean, if you said to somebody
• 13:41
  the person in the next room is a choleric, you'd have a little
• 13:43
  idea, maybe sort of, but if you said they're cleric melancholy,
• 13:46
  you'd have a better idea. And that's probably so.
• 13:49
  We think most people have a primary temperament dominant and
• 13:53
  then a secondary. That's pretty much how we see it
• 13:55
  because that one maybe is a lead, the others may be more of
• 13:57
  a rudder. But it does make a difference
• 13:59
  what your primary or secondary temperament is in terms of how
• 14:02
  you might tend to react. Want to be clear to not putting
• 14:05
  anybody in a box. This is not a personality thing.
• 14:08
  So if you know your temperament, you don't know your personality.
• 14:10
  That's much broader than your just temperament.
• 14:13
  Temperament is just a factor in there and it's how you tend to
• 14:16
  react and how you tend to react is not how you have to react.
• 14:20
  I mean, we may be a young melancholic and go, God, I don't
• 14:22
  want to go to any parties unless I know everybody there.
• 14:25
  OK, well, how many parties you've been to?
• 14:27
  Probably no, no, no, very few. Right, Right.
• 14:29
  But I don't. So that would be maybe consider
• 14:31
  more kind of an immature way to look at giving into your
• 14:33
  temperament. Whereas that person goes, well,
• 14:36
  you know, listen, I'll introduce you a couple people and you'll
• 14:38
  feel more comfortable. And I don't know.
• 14:39
  So that would be an example. If you just give into your
• 14:41
  temperament, you'll grow less. On the other hand, sometimes
• 14:45
  your temperament is just right on, just right on.
• 14:48
  It's just, it's just accurate. But we want to know how you
• 14:51
  react because sometimes that's not the way you want to respond.
• 14:55
  I think a lot of our growth and our ability to have bonds,
• 14:58
  relationships and even grow in our faith is do we respond with
• 15:02
  with love, with prudence, fortitude, courage, whatever,
• 15:06
  whatever, whatever is needed. Do I do I get the response
• 15:08
  that's needed here. That is the right one.
• 15:11
  Not just do I just react out of my temperament.
• 15:13
  So we like to say it doesn't put you in a box, but it gives you a
• 15:16
  little hint about how you lean and how you can grow.
• 15:19
  So you mentioned Hippocrates earlier and the ancient element
• 15:22
  of this and I think that's like 400 BC.
• 15:24
  So we're talking really, you know, before Christ, but this
• 15:28
  has been a tool that's been used throughout the church throughout
• 15:31
  Christianity in the last 2000 years.
• 15:33
  Can you share a little more about what that's looked like in
• 15:36
  sort of the spiritual traditions and the and and sort of the
• 15:39
  classic approach to temperaments and how it's been used as a
• 15:42
  formation tool to support support virtue building
• 15:45
  ultimately and growth in individuals well?
• 15:48
  I think, I think, you know, like, like say seminaries and
• 15:50
  things like that, when they have a young man come in, just give
• 15:53
  one kind of example that could be used for marriage to, but
• 15:56
  let's say come in and say, wow, this guy really has a ease of
• 15:59
  forgiving, just no big deal. You know, I just asked him to go
• 16:04
  apologize to that guy down the hall for what he did.
• 16:07
  And he just did it like that, no big deal.
• 16:08
  And I have another guy who did the same kind of mild crime,
• 16:11
  whatever it was, and I was talking to him and, and he comes
• 16:14
  back for spirit direct two weeks.
• 16:15
  Like I just really didn't have the time.
• 16:17
  I just didn't make the opportunity to do it.
• 16:18
  And so you go probing and just that would be really hard for
• 16:22
  him to ask for forgiveness for some reason.
• 16:26
  Might be his temperament could be something his family or but
• 16:28
  it might be his temperament or somebody else.
• 16:30
  You say, listen, we have something we have to get going.
• 16:32
  I think it's really important you got to get moving on this.
• 16:34
  I'm going to put you in a parish that has these features da, da,
• 16:36
  da, da, da. I really have to have you hit
• 16:38
  the ground running or whatever like that and some guy goes,
• 16:40
  great, can't wait, I'll do it. Boom, tries it makes maybe fails
• 16:43
  or succeeds, but is going, going, going.
• 16:45
  Then the same person gets the same assignment of the same
• 16:47
  similar kind of parish and you go, wow, I didn't think it'd be
• 16:50
  that hard. I didn't.
• 16:51
  I get this kind of pushback. I don't know what to do with the
• 16:53
  kind of pushback. So a lot of that is just
• 16:55
  temperament. So if you're a spiritual
• 16:57
  director or a spouse or it's one of your kids, you have a very
• 17:00
  good idea now how to mentor or lead or what what the obstacles
• 17:05
  might be. And it will come down to at
• 17:08
  least from the temperament. How do you tend to react to
• 17:10
  this? Or when you have a big
• 17:11
  challenge, how do you tend to react?
• 17:12
  You go, I'm on it and I want to go after it or do you go?
• 17:16
  I don't think so. So that's very helpful.
• 17:18
  I think in terms of personal growth, but also interpersonal
• 17:21
  growth. You know, if you know your kids
• 17:22
  temperament, you have a pretty good idea.
• 17:24
  I mean, not a, not a textbook or playbook kind of idea, but a
• 17:28
  pretty good idea what might be challenging and might be quite
• 17:31
  easy. And so temperaments are helpful
• 17:33
  with that. How do they, how do we tend to
• 17:35
  react? But just to kind of highlight
• 17:37
  it, it doesn't mean we have to react that way, just how we tend
• 17:40
  to react. That makes sense.
• 17:41
  But but I do think you did speak about the history of it, too.
• 17:45
  And I think it was used as long ago as maybe in the early
• 17:48
  monasteries, you know, way back before they even had a, you
• 17:52
  know, and you're talking about spiritual direction.
• 17:54
  Yeah. What did they do before they had
• 17:56
  all the new, you know, way of analyzing, you know, all the
• 18:00
  psychology that we do today. You know, back in the day, they,
• 18:04
  they were looking at temperament.
• 18:06
  So I think that's why there is this history that goes all the
• 18:09
  way back. And there's even 1 Pope, Pope
• 18:12
  John Paul the first, nobody knows anything about him.
• 18:15
  He was the only Pope for 33 days.
• 18:18
  Yeah, you know, and but he wrote a letter to Hippocrates in which
• 18:23
  he described the four temperaments and he gave each of
• 18:26
  the in his letter, he gave each of the different temperaments
• 18:31
  the same task. And then he described how they
• 18:34
  did that task and, and it was really clever.
• 18:37
  It was very funny. Turns out he's a good, good
• 18:39
  writer. The first he, you know, like the
• 18:42
  cleric was. So what they were supposed to do
• 18:44
  is climb the sheer face of a Cliff and the cleric goes, this
• 18:47
  is nothing, I'm on it. You know, he's climbs the Cliff
• 18:51
  and then he tells it. Then the phlegmatic says, OK,
• 18:55
  you know, he's very thoughtful and very, you know, methodical,
• 19:00
  very slow, very like, OK, I'm probably going to need climbing
• 19:04
  shoes. Probably going to let me measure
• 19:07
  the height of the, you know, of the mountain that I have to
• 19:11
  climb and let me see what else would I need?
• 19:14
  What should I pack in my backpack?
• 19:17
  And then he's like, well, maybe I can do it.
• 19:19
  And then the sanguine's like this is nothing.
• 19:22
  This'll be a lark. Oh my gosh, I'm this is so
• 19:25
  exciting. Yes, let's do it right now.
• 19:27
  And he gets like 110th of the way up and goes, Oh my gosh,
• 19:32
  it's way too hard. Never mind.
• 19:35
  I think I'll go off to the jungles, you know, of Africa.
• 19:39
  That sounds exciting, you know, And then and then the the last
• 19:43
  one is the melancholic. He gives the task to the
• 19:45
  melancholy goes. Are you crazy?
• 19:48
  Are you trying to kill me? It's like, absolutely no way am
• 19:54
  I going to climb that. But it was funny.
• 19:57
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  Use the code Lila, do you think that the current state of
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  Psychology Today and psychoanalysis and all of the
• 20:54
  fields, all the field of psychology and psychiatry at
• 20:57
  large of the last, you know, 100 years has invented or discovered
• 21:02
  a framework that is better then temperaments?
• 21:05
  And I I'm going to guess what the answer is going to because
• 21:07
  you're obviously promoting this framework.
• 21:10
  I mean, it mean, I guess what I'm trying to get to here is, is
• 21:13
  this framework in your view universally useful?
• 21:16
  And it's not something, it can be something that can be
• 21:18
  iterated on, but really we should, you know, pay attention
• 21:22
  to the ancients I. Mean, I don't think that it's
• 21:26
  still alive just because the ancients had it.
• 21:28
  I mean, it would have to survive the kind of modern testing.
• 21:31
  And there's been there's been some psychologists that have
• 21:33
  studied the temperaments and psychiatrists that have studied
• 21:36
  the temperaments. Again, like Lorraine said
• 21:38
  earlier, they tend not to use the same terms.
• 21:39
  They're going to study and, you know, little things like, you
• 21:43
  know, a baby in the crib and then a new person walks in.
• 21:46
  Some kids go, wow, who are you? And other kids just start
• 21:49
  crying. What does that tell you about
• 21:51
  them? And so I think the science of
• 21:54
  studying the reactions of people are very important.
• 21:57
  And then more sophisticated ones where a lot of these patterns
• 22:00
  don't seem to be behaviorally or say culturally motivated.
• 22:05
  You know, it's like this kid comes from a family about going
• 22:09
  congenial sanguine type people, but this kid when he sees a new
• 22:13
  face, he is really upset or so that's the way it kind of comes.
• 22:16
  There seems to be something going on here other than just
• 22:19
  the environment now. I think we think the church is
• 22:21
  always going to be a little more interested in that because I
• 22:24
  don't think the church is ever going to ever going to kind of
• 22:27
  buy. Into a radical.
• 22:29
  Behaviorist model. I mean, education is important,
• 22:31
  formation is critical, but there's going to be something
• 22:35
  else involved. So I think in that respect, the
• 22:37
  church likes the temperaments because it's an alternative to a
• 22:40
  kind of a radical behaviorism. It's also maybe an alternative
• 22:44
  to some of the Freudian ideas that are that are so strong and
• 22:47
  so hard. So I, I think that there's
• 22:49
  always room for the temperaments, but is it the best
• 22:51
  thing or the only thing? Again, we don't think it's a, a
• 22:54
  theory of personality. We think your personality is
• 22:57
  much broader. And there's a lot more research
• 22:59
  on neuroscience now, other things that that can enrich the
• 23:04
  thing. But we think temperament is a
• 23:06
  part of of a person is a very important part.
• 23:09
  So that's that's where we'd commit, yeah.
• 23:11
  What would be the other parts of a personality so if temperament?
• 23:14
  Is a piece, yeah. So there's like both, you know,
• 23:16
  the nature and the nurture controversy thing.
• 23:19
  Well, it's both, right. So there's both nature, what
• 23:22
  you're born with, like maybe your biology and temperament
• 23:25
  would go into to that box. And then, but then there's also
• 23:29
  the culture that you grow up in and there's your family of
• 23:33
  origin. We were talking earlier about
• 23:35
  the the big there's birth order that's environment.
• 23:39
  You know that because you you definitely treat that first born
• 23:42
  differently than you do your other subsequent ones.
• 23:45
  And then there's the, so your education, you know, some people
• 23:49
  went to public schools, some people went to Catholic schools,
• 23:53
  some people went to were homeschooled, you know, so this
• 23:56
  all these things impact plus your own choices that you make
• 24:00
  throughout your life that's going to have an impact on your
• 24:03
  ultimate personality. And the thing that we believe is
• 24:07
  so crucial is that we're always free.
• 24:09
  We're fundamentally free. We're created in the image and
• 24:12
  likeness of God. So we're free to, to choose to
• 24:17
  follow God's, to follow God's will to, to receive his grace
• 24:23
  and to grow in virtue. So we're very, very adamant that
• 24:29
  temperament is not, you know, he's not putting us in a box.
• 24:32
  It's just giving us an insight into how we naturally respond.
• 24:37
  Just like if you were you're a left hand or handed, you know,
• 24:41
  you write with your left hand, you're not going to force your
• 24:43
  kid anymore to write with their. They used to do that, I think in
• 24:46
  the old days, you know, but we're not going to force the kid
• 24:49
  to write with his right hand if he's naturally a left-handed
• 24:52
  child or if he's a lefty then and he's pitching right.
• 24:56
  Isn't that supposed to be a really good thing, you know, So
• 24:59
  you're going to encourage that, you know.
• 25:01
  So, yeah. But so that's a natural, you
• 25:04
  know, gift and a natural strength.
• 25:05
  We think the temperaments are a gift from God and it just tells
• 25:09
  you kind of how you're inclined to react, all things being
• 25:15
  equal. And but you don't have to
• 25:19
  respond to to situations just out of your temperament may be
• 25:25
  the right way to respond, or it may require you to, you know, do
• 25:30
  something outside of your comfort zone, as they say.
• 25:33
  Are you have a therapy practice and you have raised, you know,
• 25:37
  together four children and, and I've spoken, I think to, I don't
• 25:41
  know if hundreds, you've done hundreds of speaking events,
• 25:43
  talked to thousands of people at this point about all of this.
• 25:47
  How is the temperament framework used when you're approaching,
• 25:51
  let's say, a client, a patient, I should say, and how do you
• 25:55
  determine what their temperament might, might be?
• 25:57
  And then how does that help you with their your therapeuticals
• 26:01
  with a patient? That's a really good question.
• 26:04
  I whenever I got a new referral, I do offer them the option, but
• 26:07
  I don't make a requirement to take a temperament test.
• 26:10
  It's temperament test, temperament quiz.com, which is
• 26:14
  we're going to do. It on the show guys, I'll
• 26:16
  temper. Quiz.com, there you go.
• 26:17
  Yeah. And so when, when they come in,
• 26:19
  I say 90% of the people will fill that out.
• 26:21
  So they will have an idea of their temperament.
• 26:24
  When I have an idea of their temperament, I have a pretty
• 26:27
  good idea of, of several things. I'm not now, I'm not going to
• 26:30
  put anybody in a box, but just how, how things lean.
• 26:32
  Also, if there's a couple I'll have, I'll have both of theirs.
• 26:35
  And that's, you know, see where there might be some strengths
• 26:37
  and challenges that might be there.
• 26:40
  But I mean, knowing the temperament will tell me first
• 26:42
  of all, maybe what are some strengths that they probably
• 26:46
  have. So someone comes in clerics
• 26:47
  saying when I'm not surprised that they'll probably be
• 26:50
  friendly and outgoing and probably on time and they'll
• 26:53
  want to get some results right away or they're going to be out,
• 26:55
  that kind of thing. So I'll make I'll make some, but
• 26:58
  it'll tell me some strengths that they probably have.
• 27:00
  I really say probably because there are some exceptions.
• 27:03
  Also some things that I might anticipate might be harder for
• 27:05
  them. I mean, usually if I see a
• 27:07
  Colerica, they have a harder time being patient and a hard
• 27:10
  time being empathic. And almost all clinical change
• 27:13
  requires patience, calmness, a new approach.
• 27:17
  So it's sometimes that's harder for a cleric.
• 27:19
  So I know that coming in. So I'll have a pretty good idea
• 27:22
  of some strengths and weakness, but also kind of commitment that
• 27:26
  I have them fill out, you know, 3 pages of their life story and
• 27:29
  just try to integrate them together.
• 27:31
  But it shows me pretty much one of the things that temperaments
• 27:33
  is really great at it. I want to highlight is that it
• 27:35
  puts a pause to the temptation to judge somebody who's
• 27:40
  different from you as being bad. We think that's original sin.
• 27:45
  If you're not like me, there's something wrong with you.
• 27:47
  That kind of well that that the problem with that model, of
• 27:49
  course, is unless somebody is just like you, the rest of the
• 27:53
  other three temperaments, which is 75% of the world will be out.
• 27:56
  So that can't be the right model.
• 27:58
  So what temperaments gives you a nice pause?
• 28:00
  And one of the things, particularly psychotherapy in
• 28:03
  the last 25 years is something like, I guess the church knew
• 28:06
  way back with the with the monks in the desert was before you can
• 28:10
  make a significant change, you've got to be calm to got to
• 28:15
  be calm to kind of refigure how you're going to respond to that
• 28:18
  thing. And with the with the
• 28:19
  temperament, you'll have a pretty good idea of what
• 28:21
  strengths and weaknesses on being calm.
• 28:24
  OK. So I, I think that's, that's
• 28:27
  about because I was a therapist as a change agent, as a leader,
• 28:29
  as a parent. I'm trying to find that way.
• 28:31
  How can I help this person overcome a certain problem And
• 28:35
  this knowing the temperaments will give me some ideas of
• 28:37
  things that might work or might not.
• 28:39
  I find really clear if you say, well this might be too big a
• 28:43
  challenge for you, you let me know, but I think you can maybe
• 28:47
  figure out a way to go to some of your kids ball games still
• 28:49
  make a ton of money. Not many people that do because
• 28:52
  you can do that and most calerics will go they'll take
• 28:55
  that challenge. You say the same thing I.
• 28:58
  Will be relational. I can make money and I can go to
• 29:02
  my kids ball games that kind of whereas you say that to a
• 29:04
  phlegmatic. They might go, yeah.
• 29:05
  I mean, it's just I just can't pull it off.
• 29:07
  You're right. I just don't have what it takes
• 29:09
  to do that. So I probably wouldn't.
• 29:10
  I might say it more like why you have so many strengths, so many
• 29:14
  things you're doing real well and now you're trying to figure
• 29:17
  out how to find that balance. If you want to be really
• 29:19
  successful to keep your kids in Catholic school or Christian
• 29:22
  School. But you also, you got you got
• 29:24
  your work responsibilities, but you want to go some of their
• 29:26
  ball games and stuff. So you're doing so many things
• 29:29
  really well, but to build their confidence, because their
• 29:31
  confidence tends to be low. Let's see if we can add that new
• 29:34
  thing in an incremental way that can help you so that they're
• 29:38
  more likely. I think my experience to find
• 29:40
  that model better. So it's a different.
• 29:42
  I'm trying to motivate the same behavior, but I might use it a
• 29:45
  different way based on the temperament.
• 29:46
  That's so fascinating. It's very fascinating and it's
• 29:49
  so useful. And immediately I'm thinking as
• 29:51
  a parent, but I know people listening might be thinking of
• 29:54
  their friend or their spouse or someone they need to motivate at
• 29:57
  work, you know, as a boss or a colleague.
• 30:00
  And those it's so powerful because once you get a sense for
• 30:03
  what is the motivating approach for this unique human being, you
• 30:07
  can unlock greatness, you can unlock so many things, right?
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• 31:16
  We kind of know intellectually that everybody's different, but
• 31:20
  we, I really, until I knew about temperaments, I really did think
• 31:25
  art was just like me, only bad, you know, I mean, I did like, I
• 31:30
  was like. Guilty as charged first.
• 31:32
  I was talking to you earlier about like, yeah, he's so, oh,
• 31:35
  he's so mysterious and he's, you know, oh, he's so deep and so
• 31:39
  thoughtful, you know, when I first met him and I'm like, and
• 31:43
  oh, and he's also, he's so chill.
• 31:45
  He's so laid back. Wow.
• 31:46
  He's just like so perfect. And then after a while I get to
• 31:50
  know him. I'm like, how come you don't
• 31:51
  ever want to go to a party or anything?
• 31:53
  Or how come you don't when wait, how come when you come home, you
• 31:56
  don't want to talk to me? Like you're just he and used up
• 31:59
  all his words at work and I've been with the kids all day or
• 32:02
  something. And then he's just and I'm like,
• 32:05
  I want to talk. Let's go out, let's go do
• 32:07
  something, Let's go do, do, do. And he's like, what's wrong with
• 32:11
  you? What's wrong?
• 32:12
  And I'm thinking there's something wrong with him, you
• 32:15
  know, or it's or with the kids. If you have a child that's
• 32:19
  exactly opposite, you think maybe there's something wrong
• 32:23
  with the child or maybe there's something wrong with me.
• 32:25
  Maybe I'm a bad parent. And so we say it's like possibly
• 32:29
  neither. If you're not a bad parent, the
• 32:31
  child is not bad. It could just be a temperament
• 32:34
  issue. And that's like one of the
• 32:36
  crucial things I think to understand that really helps.
• 32:39
  That's so fascinating. You are describing if there's
• 32:43
  somebody that you want to have them add playing, going to the
• 32:45
  kids baseball game and you're with this patient and they're
• 32:50
  having all these other things they're balancing and for the
• 32:52
  cholera, cholera cover, you want to say it, It's a challenge.
• 32:54
  Like I bet, I bet you can do it. Like I don't know what the words
• 32:58
  you use but. Yeah, because I'm presuming if
• 33:00
  they're cleric that they have strong self-image.
• 33:04
  They're not terrified of problems, but they sure don't
• 33:07
  like to be left out and they sure don't like to be told that
• 33:09
  they're not capable of something.
• 33:11
  And so it's often sometimes sharing.
• 33:13
  I know a lot of some guys make more money than you, big guy,
• 33:16
  and they go to their kids ball games and their business.
• 33:18
  Or we were driven by a golf course.
• 33:21
  They're a bunch of Toyotas and Mazdas.
• 33:23
  I don't see that. I see really expensive cars.
• 33:25
  These guys and gals have real expensive jobs.
• 33:27
  Somehow they can play golf every week and pay the bills.
• 33:31
  Now, I don't know exactly how they do it.
• 33:32
  I'm not. You know what?
• 33:33
  Somebody. Like that's motivating to some.
• 33:34
  Motivating, right? To some people now, people with
• 33:37
  low self worth, they go, yeah, further evidence why I'm a
• 33:39
  failure. Thank you.
• 33:40
  Thanks, Ben. But for the phlegmatic, because
• 33:42
  I think that was your second example you used to them.
• 33:45
  They hear that and they're like, I guess I suck, OK, you know,
• 33:47
  not right. I'm just like, yes, I I, I
• 33:50
  should show myself out, you know, And it's not even I mean,
• 33:53
  you've said the term self worth and they may have negative self
• 33:56
  worth. Is that really what it is?
• 33:58
  Or is that really just it's a temperament of of not as much
• 34:01
  natural confidence? I think that's what it is.
• 34:04
  I mean, it could be other things too, like maybe a parent that
• 34:07
  berated them and drove their self worth out.
• 34:08
  But let's say from the temperament point of view, it is
• 34:11
  the least self confident temperament.
• 34:14
  They're the nicest, they get along with people, they're
• 34:16
  cooperative. Those are great assets, but
• 34:20
  that's the challenge. So when you're raising, I could
• 34:23
  give you an example of one of our kids was phlegmatic and we
• 34:27
  kind of talked him into running for student body president.
• 34:30
  OK, He would never would have ran if we hadn't encouraged it.
• 34:34
  And so we did encourage him to maybe give it a shot.
• 34:37
  And because he's phlegmatic, he does what he said, he goes, OK,
• 34:40
  I'll, I'll apply. So he ran so obedient because
• 34:44
  phlegmatics are very obedient, but but he would not have taken
• 34:47
  the step and the trouble to be a student body president in high
• 34:50
  school. Did it go for him?
• 34:51
  Great. He won.
• 34:52
  He won, yeah. And what happened?
• 34:54
  You saw that in him, huh? Well.
• 34:56
  He he did. I mean, he had a lot of the
• 34:58
  quality. But he liked him.
• 34:59
  He's very popular, but what really happened is so he was AI
• 35:02
  guess a junior going into senior year, senior year, how he grew
• 35:05
  as a man, young man, because what happened is tons of
• 35:08
  conflict every day, which is what the phlegmatic hates.
• 35:11
  Ben, I thought you were said we're going to have the the prom
• 35:16
  at the Marriott. Now we're back to the Knights
• 35:18
  Hall again. You didn't keep your promise.
• 35:20
  Well, it wasn't my and then, you know, we're going to have long
• 35:23
  lunch breaks or whatever. He promised it when he was
• 35:24
  running and, you know, all those things were typical.
• 35:27
  So he was learning, which is every leader will face pushback.
• 35:31
  Every leader. And how do you handle that?
• 35:33
  Well, phlegmatics can be tempted to kind of collapse or just hope
• 35:37
  it goes away or whatever, or just please everybody.
• 35:39
  But every time you make a decision, someone likes it,
• 35:42
  someone doesn't. So he learned to live with that.
• 35:45
  You know, I mean, I guess like we coached him and helped him
• 35:47
  through it and stuff and he became AI think a better young
• 35:50
  man and and that was a real thing He had to learn and he's a
• 35:54
  successful guy now. I think that's part of it.
• 35:56
  But he would not he he wouldn't have initiated that because he
• 35:59
  was kind of just go with the flow, kind of phlegmatic.
• 36:01
  So we challenged him with it, thought he could do it, knew he
• 36:04
  could do it, had a kind of mentor him through the through
• 36:06
  it. But that was a good example
• 36:07
  where he he went up against his temperament weakness with
• 36:11
  support I can love, I guess and help overcame it.
• 36:14
  And then he was a little more bold and more able to take on
• 36:18
  the challenges ahead. Now he's got 4 kids and
• 36:20
  challenges every day. So that's an example where maybe
• 36:23
  that was a good parenting on our part is that if we hadn't
• 36:26
  suggested it, he wouldn't have done it.
• 36:29
  And encouraged him. And encouraged.
• 36:31
  Him wasn't just a cheat like to the call the choleric.
• 36:34
  You could throw the gauntlet down like you know other people
• 36:36
  can do this, why can't I? But you, you, you understood
• 36:40
  him, and you were able. To cope, yeah, yeah, that's.
• 36:43
  I think that's right. And all the temperaments have
• 36:44
  that kind of some doors fly right open and you go through
• 36:47
  them and then others don't. And so like, it's a parent, I
• 36:50
  think, you know, whatever strength God gave your kids,
• 36:53
  your spouse, you want to love that.
• 36:55
  There's no reason to reduce strengths.
• 36:57
  I mean, life is challenging. So what do you do about the
• 36:59
  weaknesses? How can you be a parent or a
• 37:03
  colleague or a lover or a boss and help them grow over these,
• 37:09
  how to face these challenges and, and, and overcome them?
• 37:11
  And one of the things you will run into is a variety of things
• 37:14
  probably, but one is usually a temperament.
• 37:16
  How does the temperament make this easier or harder?
• 37:19
  And then you, you as a mentor or colleague or lover, you can say,
• 37:22
  well, I can maybe help work with that and find out what like.
• 37:25
  So with the phlegmatic, you do spend more time saying, well,
• 37:28
  you do so many things well, why you really nailed that or?
• 37:32
  They need more. Direct encouragement built up.
• 37:34
  Yeah, always reminding them of their successes too.
• 37:38
  I think that's really important cuz we could always bring it
• 37:43
  back to, well, remember you used to do this and you overcame and
• 37:47
  you overcame that. And so we would tell them, you
• 37:51
  know what? And you don't have to remind the
• 37:54
  Kaler kids, they're all over. They've got enough enough pride
• 37:58
  on that. Yeah, well, pride might be their
• 38:01
  issue. Yeah, they think they're the
• 38:02
  king of every hill, but they're probably not.
• 38:04
  But you've got the other temperaments too, Like let's say
• 38:06
  the sanguine. Yeah, take us to the Sanguine
• 38:08
  and the Phlegmatic using that same, or excuse me, the sanguine
• 38:11
  and the melancholic using that same framework of well, I like
• 38:15
  the framework of the young kid and how you coach them.
• 38:18
  But the first one that you had about the guy coming into the
• 38:21
  office who needs to spend more time on the more time going to
• 38:26
  the kids baseball games and. Sanguine already is.
• 38:28
  Okay, there you have it. All right.
• 38:31
  I would say he's like the sanguine dad or the sanguine dad
• 38:35
  is probably the beloved dad of. He's the fun dad, yeah.
• 38:39
  The fun dad. The sanguine dad you might have
• 38:41
  to worry more about. Are you?
• 38:42
  They need to work more. That's right.
• 38:44
  Are you skipping? Are you skipping every, every
• 38:46
  board meeting? Or are you because the sanguine
• 38:51
  is always tempted to to whatever the most recent event before
• 38:56
  them is? They're really that's like when
• 38:57
  you have sanguine friends, but they're with with you.
• 38:59
  God, that's just so great to connect with you again.
• 39:01
  Then you realize unless you initiate, you haven't heard from
• 39:04
  them for five, 6-7 months. And what's that all about?
• 39:06
  We, we, we seem like we just hit it off.
• 39:08
  So always with, I think saying, well, I assume, I assume
• 39:11
  perseverance is the is the issue.
• 39:13
  We all go to the game. I'll go where you can go.
• 39:15
  You're going to go to the games that they lose.
• 39:16
  You're going to go to the games on the road.
• 39:17
  You're going to do this or you're going to blow off your
• 39:19
  job and you can be an unemployed dad.
• 39:21
  That's true. Unemployed dads have more time
• 39:22
  to go to games, but that's all you know.
• 39:25
  So you have to find that. I think that's hard for the
• 39:28
  same. Well, I would assume the
• 39:29
  sanguine will struggle with that.
• 39:31
  You can't just do one thing at a time.
• 39:33
  You got to you got to kind of match all this.
• 39:35
  And then they're they're, they have challenge.
• 39:36
  Usually perseverance and distraction is, is the problem.
• 39:39
  You know, that kind of thing. They'll show up for the games,
• 39:43
  but maybe they won't take the kid in the backyard and play
• 39:45
  catch with them that you know, because that's, that's where
• 39:47
  that's a lot that's a little less inclined to their
• 39:49
  temperament. That's not so interesting,
• 39:51
  that's not so glamorous. So you got to watch out for
• 39:53
  that. That's where you want to help
• 39:54
  them, that when you go to that game and your kid hits the
• 39:56
  double in the home run, how that happened, well, you took him out
• 39:59
  to the ballpark on Tuesday. So those are the kind of things
• 40:02
  that built the success that happened.
• 40:04
  So you're always teaching the sanguine, you're happy, you go
• 40:07
  lucky, but to really be happy, you can't.
• 40:09
  You got to take your responsibilities and that's hard
• 40:11
  for them. And then the melancholic, it's
• 40:12
  like the ideals are so great. You always have to connect with
• 40:16
  the ideals. I think with every temperament,
• 40:17
  I think everybody, what's your ideal?
• 40:19
  Once you know somebody's idea, what are you worth dying for?
• 40:21
  What do you live for? What's your thing once you know
• 40:22
  somebody's ideals? And then you kind of go from
• 40:25
  there. But would be is sports really
• 40:27
  important? Is being there really important?
• 40:31
  Sorry to interrupt really quick, but is the melancholic not going
• 40:34
  to the game or going to the game in this scenario already?
• 40:37
  Well, I just, I think this, that kind of depends.
• 40:39
  The melancholic can tend to be overwhelmed, OK, because they do
• 40:44
  one thing at a time. They do, they do.
• 40:45
  They put so much attention to what they do.
• 40:47
  They care about the bottom line on the top line.
• 40:49
  They don't just rush through things.
• 40:50
  They really are methodical to get something done.
• 40:53
  So what sometimes happens because they can obsess on one
• 40:55
  thing and some other important things don't get done.
• 40:58
  I think sometimes too, maybe all the temples, maybe the
• 41:00
  melancholic, more a parent just showing up.
• 41:04
  It's powerful, really powerful. It's not the same.
• 41:07
  If you just show up at a meeting, don't say anything at
• 41:09
  work. They'll really eventually go,
• 41:10
  why? Why is Bennett here?
• 41:12
  He doesn't say anything out. But as a dad or mom, coming to
• 41:16
  your kids game and just being there and watching them and what
• 41:20
  is unbelievably important, unbelievable.
• 41:23
  So sometimes people just need to be educated about that.
• 41:25
  Being there when your kid has successes or failures, being
• 41:28
  there, being with them, strengthen the bond is really
• 41:30
  important. Sometimes like melancholics
• 41:32
  understate that they're more into what's have to say
• 41:34
  something wise or something profound or something really
• 41:37
  deep. But just being there, you know,
• 41:40
  if you get there a couple minute innings late and stay there and
• 41:43
  you pick them up and you know what he did and you showed your
• 41:46
  kid, it's funny. They said your parents don't
• 41:48
  always remember the games they went or not.
• 41:50
  You ask the kid, was your dad there on that game when you
• 41:53
  played the Phillies? No, the kids remember if mom or
• 41:58
  dad were there. So so that's something I think
• 42:00
  for the melancholic, so high ideals, if it's not really
• 42:02
  grandiose and important, it's not important.
• 42:04
  But that's not true. So these are just things I think
• 42:07
  that you're just kind of aware of as people are trying to be
• 42:09
  better parents, better spouses, better employees or better
• 42:12
  employers that that helps. So this way the temperaments are
• 42:15
  helpful with that. And it's very helpful when you
• 42:18
  have, when you're dealing with like young kids.
• 42:21
  I think it's very like with our, with our sanguine, we had to
• 42:26
  like with school. They're the ones that run out
• 42:28
  the door and then they have to come in 10 times because they
• 42:31
  forgot, you know, their homework, they forgot their gym
• 42:33
  clothes. They forgot, you know, they're,
• 42:35
  they forgot to get the permission slip signed.
• 42:37
  And we like to point out that it, this is not done out of any
• 42:41
  ill will. It's not because they're being
• 42:43
  bad where some arents would say you're so bad.
• 42:47
  No, it's not Vadnais. It's something in their
• 42:50
  temperament. So that's another reason to, we
• 42:53
  think is it's important to understand what the temperament
• 42:56
  is with your kids, especially because you might judge them,
• 43:00
  you know, and instead of judging them saying you're so bad, why
• 43:04
  can't you remember your, I always remembered my homework.
• 43:07
  You know, you would say no, like, like, OK, this kid needs
• 43:12
  to have, he needs assistance in doing this.
• 43:15
  So OK, we need a system for you. We need to like put out your
• 43:19
  stuff the night before and we, you don't have to do it with
• 43:22
  the, the melancholy child already had it out or whatever,
• 43:25
  you know, like you don't have to do the same, same things with
• 43:27
  each child. But with the sanguine, you're
• 43:29
  going to have to, you know, give him a, a system for helping him
• 43:33
  remember what his, what is due or the, he said our, our son
• 43:37
  when he sanguine son, when we said, do you have any homework?
• 43:41
  He would always say no. And then I, it turned out he was
• 43:44
  defining, he was defining homework too narrowly, you know,
• 43:47
  so it didn't include projects, science fair, you know.
• 43:51
  Too funny. Things down the road.
• 43:52
  So we had to like break everything into little smaller
• 43:56
  sections and like, do you have any projects that come in due in
• 43:59
  the next two months? And you know, that sort of
• 44:01
  thing. So like that's where the
• 44:03
  perseverance part, I think, you know, comes in handy to to
• 44:07
  really teach that virtue, you have to help them, especially
• 44:11
  when they're kids, Like how, how can they learn these virtues
• 44:14
  that they might be lacking? So people push back.
• 44:17
  They say, are you guys saying that I have to have a different
• 44:20
  approach with each one of my kids?
• 44:22
  And part of us goes, yeah, same goal, though.
• 44:27
  So let's say you raise an indicator.
• 44:28
  I want you to do well in school. I want you to understand the
• 44:32
  faith as best you can. I mean, at some point you'll
• 44:34
  say, you know, once you're, once you're once you're out of the
• 44:36
  house, you'll do what you want. But at least in this house,
• 44:38
  we'll take, everyone goes to mass, let's say, or we respect
• 44:42
  you, treat people with respect. So maybe you have four or five,
• 44:45
  four or five things, not 20 or 30.
• 44:46
  And that's going to be across the board with all your kids as
• 44:50
  a family culture, but you might institute them differently.
• 44:53
  I mean, we had one example where one of our, when our two of our
• 44:55
  daughters went to college, the one went to college was very
• 44:57
  outgoing, very, very sanguine, loved people.
• 45:00
  I went to a party on Tuesday and we were worried.
• 45:04
  We know her history and she's going to parties on Tuesday.
• 45:08
  She just started as a freshman. I mean, my melancholy, the
• 45:11
  melancholic dad doesn't like that.
• 45:12
  And so we we we were caught. We told her we're living what I
• 45:15
  watch. I don't know what what's with
• 45:16
  the Tuesday party? Why can't they wait for Thursday
• 45:18
  or Friday? Then you flip our other daughter
• 45:20
  who was very introverted grandmother.
• 45:21
  She told us she went to a party on a Monday or Tuesday and we
• 45:24
  were elated. I.
• 45:26
  Knew she was studying. She's a little bookish.
• 45:28
  She wouldn't always go out on weekends, always had just a few
• 45:31
  friends. So there is she is a college
• 45:32
  really having fun meeting people.
• 45:35
  So you say, well, that's that sounds capricious or unfair.
• 45:37
  Both kids are expected to do really well in school.
• 45:41
  Goal. The goal is the same.
• 45:42
  The goal is the same, but but what the strengths and
• 45:45
  weaknesses are different. So yeah, great.
• 45:48
  I'm glad you're enjoying it. We know she'll study.
• 45:50
  She'll study the other one. We're not we, we're worried if
• 45:54
  she eats parties too much. So it's it's it's they're all
• 45:56
  the same family with different temperaments.
• 45:59
  And the parenting might be a little different, a little
• 46:01
  nuanced, but it's not complete. The goals are the same.
• 46:04
  You know, I mean, I don't want to go to church because of this.
• 46:07
  Well, you're going to go to church.
• 46:08
  Then we can figure out what to do about it or whatever.
• 46:11
  But you know, when you're an adult and you'll make your
• 46:13
  decisions. But at least for these first 18
• 46:16
  or 20 years, whenever you're living at home, that's just a
• 46:18
  kind of hard. Yeah, we.
• 46:19
  We would say yes, you always had to go to church So but it you
• 46:23
  could pick your the choice of time, you could pick what you
• 46:26
  did. We had people do different, you
• 46:29
  know, like do some, you know, you know, whatever, whatever way
• 46:34
  you might want to help out in the church as well.
• 46:37
  Every kid had to help out. So our one son goes, OK, I'll be
• 46:40
  usher at 12:30 Sunday night. We're going.
• 46:43
  He can't drive. That means.
• 46:45
  Within reason. Yeah, no, he did.
• 46:47
  Yeah, I. Thought it was beyond reason,
• 46:48
  but we did it. But we did it and it all worked
• 46:51
  out. OK.
• 46:51
  So that's right. He wants to sleep in and then
• 46:53
  go, OK, as long as you're going to church.
• 46:54
  That was the deal. And so we accommodated to that.
• 46:57
  How about discipline with temperaments for parents,
• 47:00
  especially a very especially a very young children?
• 47:03
  There's nuances with that too. So like you would think the
• 47:07
  choleric or the choleric that they, they tend to be this sort
• 47:09
  of, yeah, they things seem to bounce off them pretty well.
• 47:13
  But when you're they, they also are the ones that could rebel if
• 47:19
  you if you come down really hard and you say this is the way it
• 47:22
  is in our house and that's it. And no ifs, ands or buts, they,
• 47:27
  they, they could be the kind. And we've read a number of older
• 47:32
  documents actually on the temperaments that say they are
• 47:35
  the kind that are going to harden their hearts then and
• 47:37
  isn't there? There's that Saint Paul to the
• 47:39
  Colossians, I think. Do not provoke them lest they
• 47:42
  lose heart, lest they lose heart.
• 47:45
  That's good. But so in in a sense like you
• 47:48
  have to be careful with the very, very sensitive ones, but
• 47:51
  also with the the very like so the.
• 47:53
  There we go this, excuse me, Colossians 321.
• 47:57
  The truthfully tells us from the Holy Scripture, fathers, do not
• 48:01
  provoke your children so that they do not become discouraged.
• 48:04
  Exactly what you or just Well, well, you, you got it.
• 48:07
  Right, but also they like the so the Kolleric what you can do,
• 48:10
  though, you can say, look, we're this is what I need you to do
• 48:14
  because and you give rational arguments and they like that.
• 48:19
  They so they they will take to that.
• 48:21
  They don't like they they won't like it if you just say just do
• 48:25
  it. They like to have they like to
• 48:27
  feel like they're in control, because even when they're
• 48:29
  little, they they think they're in charge, you know, and they
• 48:32
  want to they want to have control over things.
• 48:34
  So, so you give them options, you know, can you here, you can
• 48:38
  help me do this or here you can choose between your these, this
• 48:41
  and this or, you know, and if you, if something they really
• 48:45
  want to do, they think they should be, be able to do it,
• 48:47
  they're getting older or whatever.
• 48:48
  Then you say these are the reasons why we're not letting
• 48:51
  you do this as opposed to just no.
• 48:54
  And I said so and that's it. You know, that kind of approach
• 48:59
  doesn't really work with them either, even though you think it
• 49:02
  might, they, it might not have an, you know, that negative
• 49:08
  effect of, of, of like really having them lose heart.
• 49:11
  Maybe not, but they could become rebellious.
• 49:14
  So it sounds like what you're saying is regardless of the
• 49:15
  temperament, being very tough with one's kids is not a good
• 49:20
  path, generally speaking, in terms of, like, tough love,
• 49:23
  Like, Yeah, in terms of the sort of like, you know, you know,
• 49:25
  yelling obviously might be a bad thing unless there's an
• 49:28
  emergency and you're trying to get somebody to stop something.
• 49:30
  But that would be an example of something that's not helpful
• 49:33
  regardless of the temperament. But in terms of disciplining or
• 49:37
  just shepherding, guiding these different temperaments,
• 49:40
  especially for very young children, what would it look?
• 49:43
  How would it look different, let's say for a four year old or
• 49:45
  a three-year old who's a sanguine versus a phlegmatic in
• 49:49
  how you approach that child when they are doing something
• 49:52
  disobedient or they're doing something that they shouldn't do
• 49:55
  and you want to, you know, protect them and guide their
• 49:57
  direction, behavior a different direction.
• 50:00
  Yeah, I think, I think if you have a a young extroverted kid,
• 50:04
  but just kind of preface to one of my comments here is one of
• 50:07
  the big changes that's current with the neuroscience now is
• 50:10
  more emphasis on teaching kids to self regulate rather than to
• 50:14
  be obedient to you. And one thing I kind of like
• 50:17
  about that, because the problem with the obedience model is it's
• 50:19
  necessarily going to run out. The 4th commandment doesn't say
• 50:23
  obey your parents and your mind says honorum can built in.
• 50:27
  There is I might go a different direction.
• 50:28
  So it's built in so someday your kids and their active
• 50:32
  individuation will make a decision that may or may not
• 50:36
  agree with what you think is the way they should go.
• 50:38
  Now you got 20 years with them, which is a long time.
• 50:40
  You should be able to have an impact on your kids.
• 50:42
  But it's built in that at some point and that in the mission of
• 50:45
  raising your kid is they should launch and be good adults, good
• 50:50
  people doing good stuff and and and God fearing.
• 50:52
  That would be like an ideal, I think just about for every
• 50:55
  parent. But how that will play out,
• 50:56
  we'll find out. But so the other alternative
• 51:00
  model is, and I got this actually from clients once I
• 51:03
  saw, I said to the dad, what do you want your kid to be like?
• 51:06
  And he goes, I want him to have all the all the best options of
• 51:09
  life and I go home. That made me fine tune that a
• 51:11
  little bit. That's pretty cool.
• 51:12
  That's when you look at your son, that's you're thinking,
• 51:14
  yeah, I want him to when he leaves the home to have a lot of
• 51:17
  good options. I said, what are you man?
• 51:19
  What do you want to have as a mom?
• 51:20
  She goes, I want my kid to have a deep foundation of love and to
• 51:24
  feel secure. And I go, wow, what a vision you
• 51:28
  guys got. We got that together.
• 51:30
  I think that covers everything. I want him to reach for the
• 51:32
  stars and I want him to feel solid and confident and
• 51:35
  confident and, and I think that was great.
• 51:37
  So, so then the parenting would be OK.
• 51:41
  He doesn't want to go to a party, a birthday party because
• 51:43
  he's too shy. Well, that's going to hurt both
• 51:45
  ends, particularly the you don't have friends.
• 51:47
  You don't want to develop the art of making friends.
• 51:49
  So you think you would coach that kid on how to go to a party
• 51:53
  and maybe pick out two kids you like and hang around with it.
• 51:55
  You would teach them the art of how to go to a birthday party
• 51:57
  and have fun because that's going to be a step you'll need
• 51:59
  if he's going to be a kid who sees the options of life, that
• 52:02
  kind of thing. Or yeah, you go to that party
• 52:05
  and mom and I will be here and we'll hear about it.
• 52:07
  So the depth part. So always going after those two
• 52:09
  things. So it's more of, you know, a
• 52:12
  sanguine kid is more likely maybe to be loud at church or
• 52:16
  erupt over church or whatever. OK, So you got to coach him, him
• 52:19
  or her through that. So, you know, this is this is
• 52:21
  called the church. That's called the playground
• 52:23
  over there. After church.
• 52:24
  You can we'll go to there. You can scream and yell.
• 52:27
  We'll go to church and then we'll go back there.
• 52:28
  And this is screaming, yelling place.
• 52:30
  This is quiet place. So we motivated our sanguine
• 52:33
  with something fun after. So whenever there was something
• 52:36
  negative that we had to impart, we would follow it up with and
• 52:40
  then we'll go get ice cream. After the March for Life, we
• 52:43
  always went to ESPN Zone and I, I bought everybody.
• 52:45
  We took them to March for life a lot.
• 52:47
  Of kids wanted to go to March for Life because we took them,
• 52:50
  they were. Babies.
• 52:50
  So, so I mean, that's where I think that the helping them to
• 52:55
  self regulate, helping them to to learn.
• 52:57
  That's a good. Point learn to be that can be
• 53:00
  quiet at church. They can be loud on the baseball
• 53:02
  field and I loud at recess. OK, I got that.
• 53:05
  That's a good skill to learn. But if you just let a sanguine
• 53:07
  go and be loud wherever they want, they won't learn.
• 53:10
  Then you have the other side, which is the phlegmatics.
• 53:13
  They're not causing too much trouble, they're not doing too
• 53:15
  much. They may not get good grades.
• 53:16
  They can kind of get lost in the shuffle, you know, cuz they.
• 53:21
  Kind of think that's where that, you know, when we talked about
• 53:23
  low kind of low self-confidence, I think it's cuz they're always
• 53:27
  so even keeled they could get, they can get forgotten,
• 53:32
  especially if you have a big family.
• 53:33
  Especially if they're a middle kid too.
• 53:35
  Yeah, if they're a middle kid lost in the shuffle, they and
• 53:37
  everybody else like the the Koleric is out, you know,
• 53:40
  arguing and the Sanguine is talking, talking, talking and
• 53:44
  the the. Melancholic is writing in their
• 53:46
  journal. Or they're having a meltdown
• 53:48
  over in the because melancholics can do that.
• 53:51
  So because of the sensitive ones, you know, really
• 53:54
  sensitive, you know, So then you have the phlegmatic just being
• 53:57
  even keeled quietly playing over there in the corner with his
• 54:00
  Matchbox toys. I remember that's what I ours
• 54:03
  would just be quietly playing, you know, and and you're just
• 54:06
  like, oh, yeah, he's still there, isn't he?
• 54:08
  You know, And it's like if you if you're getting overlooked,
• 54:13
  you know, after a while they might think, well, yeah, I'm
• 54:16
  not, you know, I'm, he's not the squeaky wheel, you know.
• 54:19
  And so then he might internalize that is somehow think that he,
• 54:23
  you know, he's somehow less, less than in some sense, you
• 54:27
  know, and say that's why you have to counter that with all
• 54:31
  the building up in the encouragement, I think.
• 54:34
  Over the real action. Yeah, well, actually.
• 54:36
  So let's say I'm a phlegmatic dad, and the sanguine kids over
• 54:40
  there doing Everyone's being quiet, the phlegmatic kids not
• 54:43
  being troubled. We got the homework, peace,
• 54:47
  good. I don't have to do anything.
• 54:49
  Yeah. So that's something you gotta
• 54:51
  watch for as a phlegmatic dad, cuz I just like it calm and
• 54:54
  peaceful. Well, actually, he's not doing
• 54:55
  his homework or he's. Being quiet, but he's not.
• 54:58
  Yeah, that's right. What is he doing over there, by
• 55:01
  the way? I don't think it's homework.
• 55:02
  It's something else or, or this one, you know, is, is just
• 55:05
  knocking his work off right away so he can do something else.
• 55:08
  But his grades aren't that bad. So I so I have to lean into this
• 55:11
  kid and go kind of take a look at your work.
• 55:12
  Well, that's that's going to make it inconvenient for me
• 55:14
  because I want to relax. I had a hard day at work.
• 55:15
  So I have to overcome that. Or, you know, so many, many
• 55:19
  times Lorraine would notice something about our kids that I
• 55:21
  would just kind of go, is that a problem?
• 55:23
  She goes, I think I might be. I go, OK, OK.
• 55:25
  And then you have to kind of lean into it.
• 55:26
  So some of the leadership she sees things I see and vice
• 55:29
  versa. But you got to watch out as a
• 55:31
  parent and I might just be settling in in my temperament.
• 55:35
  I had a hard day at work today. Do I have to correct the kids
• 55:37
  homework too? I don't think so.
• 55:39
  That's why I put them in like school, all kind of stuff.
• 55:41
  Is that is that really the truth or is that a temperament cave?
• 55:45
  You know, you get to push. You're still you're still on
• 55:47
  duty here. You've got to check the kids
• 55:48
  homework. Well, he's oh, what's he doing
• 55:50
  watching TVI thought he had a test tomorrow.
• 55:52
  Well, he said he's fine for the test.
• 55:53
  He'll be OK. Well, I've heard that one
• 55:55
  before, you know, so that's where you had to look at
• 55:58
  yourself as a parent and go where are my weak spots in my
• 56:01
  leadership or being a good parent?
• 56:03
  Maybe I'm too impatient or maybe I'm too patient and and the
• 56:07
  temperaments will help with that.
• 56:08
  They're self knowledge tools and then to the points you're making
• 56:11
  about children, they're and and other people.
• 56:14
  They're just tools to understand other people and know how to
• 56:16
  relate to them and help them and love them.
• 56:18
  I mean, in the end, the end is all for all of this is is love.
• 56:22
  Let's go to how to determine someones temperament.
• 56:25
  You've obviously shared some kind of sketches of what the
• 56:28
  temperaments might look like. You have this really handy tools
• 56:30
  temperament quiz.com. Well, actually before we do it
• 56:33
  for me, do you have a guest room up my temper minutes?
• 56:36
  I know we talked about this a little bit before we had done
• 56:38
  together. So I had guessed Kolaric,
• 56:41
  melancholic and melancholic's got to be there.
• 56:43
  Because first of all, I think you have great attention to
• 56:47
  detail, high ideals, noble causes, beauty.
• 56:55
  Everything is beautiful here, you know, You dress beautifully,
• 56:59
  the whole thing. Well, melancholics, do you know
• 57:01
  they I mean. She's mothering me right now.
• 57:03
  Melancholics. No thank.
• 57:04
  You like all these. I mean, I would guess, you know,
• 57:07
  sensitive, artistic, you know, music, you probably are musical
• 57:11
  or enjoy music and all those kinds of things.
• 57:15
  So I would say definitely melancholic.
• 57:17
  And I had said choleric because of your leadership at a very
• 57:21
  young age. But that could be having spoken
• 57:25
  with you, perhaps that was a you know, I rashly judged you there,
• 57:32
  so who knows what? Well, I mean, I I've seen you,
• 57:35
  I've known a little bit about you, but I've always mostly knew
• 57:38
  your headlines. So yeah, it's tempting just to
• 57:41
  go to cleric. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 57:42
  So I guess I would have had the same assessment.
• 57:44
  So both of us, actually. Also being a leader.
• 57:46
  Sounds like both of us were wrong, Leader.
• 57:47
  In your field also being taking on really challenging and.
• 57:54
  High conflict. Stuff high conflict, yeah, you
• 57:57
  know situations, guests or or or topics that are high conflict.
• 58:02
  I mean, I, I think it's, I think you're extremely brave about.
• 58:05
  Doing this show in California, that's.
• 58:07
  Experience. I know.
• 58:08
  Yeah. Like, we totally admire you and
• 58:11
  think you're very, very brave. So sweet.
• 58:12
  Thank. You so so when people and I
• 58:16
  think as a working tool, when you're engaging people, your own
• 58:19
  children, your spouse, friends, you can maybe have assumptions
• 58:23
  about people and then you get to know them better and you
• 58:25
  discover there's other factors that are like the thing that
• 58:29
  seems more most clear about their temperament might actually
• 58:31
  be something they're trying really hard at for certain
• 58:33
  reasons. And so that's an interesting
• 58:36
  kind of dynamic because early on when I first encountered the
• 58:39
  temperaments actually through your beautiful books and my
• 58:41
  spiritual director when I was I think 20 years old the first
• 58:44
  time or 19, she said you're definitely melancholic.
• 58:46
  So she called that. But then later on, I remember
• 58:49
  people telling me, you know, you've got you're very sanguine.
• 58:54
  But I know those don't often operate together.
• 58:55
  So let's see how this test goes. We're going to speed through
• 58:58
  this. And folks listening can check
• 58:59
  this out at temperamentquiz.com to get a sense for where their
• 59:02
  temperament might be. Lila, your temperament is
• 59:05
  phlegmatic, sanguine. Phlegmatic.
• 59:07
  Sanguine. Wow, there's no melancholic
• 59:09
  here, guys. What?
• 59:10
  Hell. Gosh, you're so wrong.
• 59:11
  And there's no color. Yeah.
• 59:12
  So that's. What happened?
• 59:15
  Created the test. Wow, and I'm so wrong. 72%
• 59:20
  phlegmatic and 28% sanguine. I have had people tell me before
• 59:24
  I'm phlegmatic and sanguine and I've had that one spiritual guy
• 59:28
  who herself was very melancholic.
• 59:30
  So maybe that's what she was picking up in me.
• 59:32
  She believed need to be melancholic.
• 59:34
  But yeah, so all right, there you go.
• 59:38
  So for a phlegmatic sanguine, what are the best?
• 59:42
  What are their typical careers or interest that they seem to
• 59:47
  have? Or is it really all across the
• 59:49
  board I. Think we're more comfortable
• 59:51
  talking about interest in careers because.
• 59:52
  You're a phlegmatic sanguine, right, Doctor?
• 59:54
  Oh my gosh, phlegmatic. Melancholy.
• 59:56
  Oh, oh, sorry, you're. More of a grumpy phlegmatic.
• 59:58
  You're a happy. Grumpy.
• 1:00:00
  I mean, I think there are people can succeed at all sorts of
• 1:00:04
  things, different things, but they're you know, but but I
• 1:00:07
  think in terms of interest based on your temperament, you would
• 1:00:11
  like people to get along and cooperation would be radical of
• 1:00:14
  interest to you. You might possibly have some
• 1:00:17
  challenges in interpersonal conflict.
• 1:00:19
  Phlegmatics tend to be generally less comfortable with conflict,
• 1:00:22
  but more so with interpersonal conflict.
• 1:00:25
  And so that sometimes can be tempted more towards people
• 1:00:28
  pleasing and I think. Both of those temperaments could
• 1:00:30
  be both phlegmatic and sanguine could be people pleasers.
• 1:00:35
  So you're getting a double whammy of it.
• 1:00:37
  What? People think and how people.
• 1:00:38
  Yeah, I mean. If someone listening has maybe
• 1:00:41
  developed some strong skills, maybe in leadership or dealing
• 1:00:45
  with conflict or things like this, and certainly I have had
• 1:00:47
  to do that over the last couple decades, but I've is it, is it,
• 1:00:51
  is it along with taking the test, is it useful to go back
• 1:00:55
  into childhood and to remember or to ask people that knew you
• 1:00:59
  like your your mother maybe, or your father again, provided
• 1:01:02
  there's healthy enough dynamics. OK, what was I like?
• 1:01:05
  What were my what was in my kind of more primal, primal state
• 1:01:08
  like in terms of my react, my natural react?
• 1:01:11
  Because as kids we're more like our, our temperament, we're
• 1:01:15
  closer to our temperament because we haven't had enough
• 1:01:17
  time to learn other skills and we haven't been to school and we
• 1:01:22
  haven't been, you know, we haven't acquired virtues or
• 1:01:25
  whatever. And there's so many things we
• 1:01:27
  have had. There's a lot of experiences in
• 1:01:29
  life that that we haven't had as kids.
• 1:01:32
  So you're probably more of your pure temperament back then.
• 1:01:36
  And didn't you say your mom said you were this happy little?
• 1:01:40
  She did say I was a a quiet a quiet, peaceful, cheerful people
• 1:01:44
  pleaser. Aw, so I guess it may it fit
• 1:01:48
  she. Was right.
• 1:01:49
  Mom was right. Mom.
• 1:01:50
  Was right again. Can you?
• 1:01:52
  Can your temperament change as you age and mature?
• 1:01:55
  We, we, we kind of take the stance that we don't think so
• 1:01:59
  really, but but you should, we should all change quite a bit as
• 1:02:04
  the years go by. And that's, that's the
• 1:02:06
  acquisition of virtues and also not just reacting, but calmly
• 1:02:12
  making decisions based on what's the best thing to do here.
• 1:02:16
  If you just always react and just let's say the temperament's
• 1:02:19
  the way I am and that's the way I'm going to be life, you'll
• 1:02:23
  miss a lot of opportunities in life.
• 1:02:25
  So I think the real thrust is you understand your temperament.
• 1:02:27
  That shows how you lean, but what you want to do is you want
• 1:02:30
  to grow to be a more fully rounded person.
• 1:02:33
  Want to grow in virtue and you want to grow?
• 1:02:35
  You want to imitate Christ. We want to become more Christ
• 1:02:39
  like. And for many of the Saints,
• 1:02:42
  they, they would you, you could tell what their temperament was
• 1:02:44
  when they were younger, you know, and like Saint Ignatius
• 1:02:48
  was really, you know, he was a hot head and he was getting in
• 1:02:50
  fights and this and that. And then at the end of his life,
• 1:02:53
  they said he was so meek and so humble and so Christ like.
• 1:02:58
  So you would say, oh, he changed his temperament.
• 1:03:00
  Well, no, he didn't actually change his temperament.
• 1:03:02
  He just grew in virtue. He grew to become more Christ
• 1:03:07
  like and that's what we all should do.
• 1:03:09
  That's our hope is that we grow in virtue and that we become we
• 1:03:13
  follow Christ evermore closely. And he didn't just react out of,
• 1:03:17
  you know, I just felt like it or, you know, when he like
• 1:03:21
  turned the tables over, you know, he was doing that.
• 1:03:23
  He was very he knew what he was doing.
• 1:03:26
  He always did the perfect thing and he chose to do the the
• 1:03:30
  perfect, most loving, the most prudent, most wise thing to do
• 1:03:34
  in every moment. And so that's what we're trying
• 1:03:36
  to do. We're trying to, you know, learn
• 1:03:39
  how to respond that way, too. Do we know what temperament
• 1:03:43
  Christ was? Or do we have a Do we know?
• 1:03:45
  Do we have a guest? Yeah, we have like A1A good
• 1:03:50
  friend of ours, said he he thought about it very deeply one
• 1:03:53
  time a priest and he said he thought Christ was all the only
• 1:03:57
  the good of all four temperaments.
• 1:04:00
  Beautiful, that's what he perfect.
• 1:04:02
  He was perfect. Yes, well, he was perfect.
• 1:04:04
  One time he's told people to turn the other cheek.
• 1:04:07
  Yeah. And then the other time he turns
• 1:04:10
  over, he walked in and turns all over the table.
• 1:04:12
  So he has everything at his at his display.
• 1:04:15
  He can be outgoing, you know, he talks to Pilot, but he doesn't
• 1:04:19
  talk to Herod. Was he was he like in a bad mood
• 1:04:23
  when he met Herod and a chatty mood when we went pilot?
• 1:04:25
  No, it just he just assesses the situation and does the best
• 1:04:28
  thing. So that's that's of how a free
• 1:04:31
  man with the divine grace acts. He does the best thing every
• 1:04:36
  moment. Now, none of us can get to that,
• 1:04:38
  but we do want to try to move more towards that with his
• 1:04:42
  because we, you know, divination is grace comes into our hearts
• 1:04:44
  and souls. We can do things we couldn't do
• 1:04:46
  otherwise. So I think that's right.
• 1:04:49
  But I'm saying if if you're a phlegmatic sanguine, you must be
• 1:04:51
  really friendly. You're.
• 1:04:54
  Like, wouldn't have guessed it, no.
• 1:04:56
  No, I mean, I mean not a bad thing for a person on ATV host,
• 1:05:01
  but I was thinking if you wanted to know the classic challenges,
• 1:05:03
  the classic challenge for the phlegmatic is interpersonal
• 1:05:06
  conflict and the classic one for sanguine is perseverance.
• 1:05:09
  So if you've if you've kind of gone after those.
• 1:05:11
  Which you have. Yeah.
• 1:05:12
  So if you if you've kind of gone after those and kind of come to
• 1:05:15
  peace with those. Things.
• 1:05:16
  It's been hard though. It's not easy for me, but.
• 1:05:18
  Yeah, the temper, I would indicate that would be hard, but
• 1:05:21
  that another way to look at that's kind of the business of
• 1:05:23
  being Lila Rose. You got to.
• 1:05:25
  Those are the things if you want to be, you know, successful and
• 1:05:28
  more like an apostle or something, those are the things
• 1:05:29
  you have to go after. Like like I was a president, CEO
• 1:05:32
  of Catholic Charities. I was a phlegmatic melancholic
• 1:05:34
  and I really don't like her personal conflict.
• 1:05:36
  But after about two weeks on the job, I go, Oh my gosh, every
• 1:05:38
  day. It's just an endless stream of
• 1:05:40
  conflict. Yeah.
• 1:05:42
  CEO life, yeah. Yeah, So I found a priest in the
• 1:05:45
  building. He was very experienced.
• 1:05:47
  It was a similar temperament. And I said, Father, how did you
• 1:05:49
  overcome this? He goes, I just grew to love it.
• 1:05:52
  I just grew to love conflict. So he kind of changed his
• 1:05:55
  passion of aversion to a passion of.
• 1:05:59
  And he did that as a phlegmatic. He did that, yeah, and he
• 1:06:02
  actually helped mentor me to do it, too, because I had no
• 1:06:04
  choice. You love conflict now.
• 1:06:06
  No, I. Love for Lorraine you're.
• 1:06:08
  Married to Miss Lorraine here. I have to say I don't think I'm
• 1:06:12
  I'm I don't I love. So he's much better, but.
• 1:06:14
  I'm much, yeah, yeah, I would say that's accurate.
• 1:06:16
  I'm much better. I know in a leadership position
• 1:06:19
  or whatever, I expect conflict. I mean, there's no conflict.
• 1:06:22
  There's no leader, no pushback, there's no leadership.
• 1:06:25
  So I see it as a part of the state or whatever is a parent
• 1:06:28
  and sometimes he's a spouse, but more often just running a
• 1:06:30
  business or something. So I expect it.
• 1:06:32
  So I've come to peace with that. Of course there's conflict and
• 1:06:34
  then maybe I'm pretty good at some aspect, but I've also had,
• 1:06:37
  I've had consultants, mentors. I'm a spiritual director of an
• 1:06:41
  outgoing diverted wife. So I do have people around that
• 1:06:45
  that can help me grow in that. Because it's not, that's not a
• 1:06:47
  natural talent for me because of my temperament.
• 1:06:50
  Yeah. So yeah.
• 1:06:51
  When it comes to marriage and relationships, and especially
• 1:06:54
  when you're giving advice or doing therapy, do you encourage
• 1:06:58
  or recommend certain temperaments to pair with other
• 1:07:03
  temperaments? And are there temperaments that
• 1:07:05
  are like oil and water that you're like, this is going to be
• 1:07:07
  tough for a marriage and I know I'm asking you guys and you guys
• 1:07:10
  are opposite temperament so. I mean, I, we think that whoever
• 1:07:15
  God calls you to, you know, to be with is, you know, it's going
• 1:07:19
  to be the best situation and it'll work out.
• 1:07:23
  If you marry someone, you know, we call it the endless
• 1:07:26
  sleepover, you're saying I'm saying yes to her and no, no to
• 1:07:30
  a lot of billion other several billion others.
• 1:07:32
  So there must be something there that has to be nurtured and, and
• 1:07:36
  appreciate it all through the marriage.
• 1:07:37
  There's something really good here that I that that we do
• 1:07:40
  that. But then I also have to
• 1:07:42
  acknowledge there are some weaknesses I have to overcome to
• 1:07:45
  be the best husband and soon to be a best father and now a
• 1:07:49
  grandfather. And so it's kind of both.
• 1:07:52
  And, you know, appreciate the temperament.
• 1:07:55
  God gave you the gifts you got, but also go out and get new ones
• 1:07:59
  and overcome some of the some of the weaknesses.
• 1:08:01
  I mean, there's a phlegmatic sanguine leader.
• 1:08:04
  Go to my, go to the weaknesses. Yeah, you would have to, you
• 1:08:07
  know, you'd have to come to terms of conflict and also
• 1:08:10
  persevere. Indecisive, impassive,
• 1:08:13
  inattentive, unconcerned, unmotivated, languid.
• 1:08:21
  I wouldn't say. That at all.
• 1:08:22
  So if you, if you, if all those things took you down, yeah, you
• 1:08:26
  couldn't be the leader you needed to be to do what you're
• 1:08:28
  doing. So you overcame those things?
• 1:08:30
  And maybe are or overcoming them and maybe in terms of a mentor.
• 1:08:34
  Well, you get special graces because I do think God, God has
• 1:08:36
  given me a special grace of caring a lot about the causes I
• 1:08:40
  care about. And so that just you just
• 1:08:42
  they're on your heart. It's like, and that's a calling
• 1:08:45
  you, you, you care a lot about something.
• 1:08:47
  And it's like God gave you this care.
• 1:08:49
  And so that was where maybe the phlegmatic natural challenges
• 1:08:53
  might be absorbed or overcome because you care so much.
• 1:08:58
  Well, that that ideal of caring, I mean ideals.
• 1:09:02
  Ideals are the same as goals. Ideals are something that pulls
• 1:09:05
  me out of myself. It's something I'm reaching
• 1:09:07
  towards my whole life and I'll never totally nail it.
• 1:09:11
  I'll never be caring enough. I don't have to care anymore.
• 1:09:13
  I mean, you know, I don't. I'm loving that'll pull you out
• 1:09:15
  of yourself and into areas that might be uncomfortable or you
• 1:09:19
  don't want to go. That's a beautiful ideal.
• 1:09:21
  And, and, and, and if that's what's kind of driving you, well
• 1:09:25
  to be a caring person is going to be pushed back on that, which
• 1:09:29
  challenges that. But if it's really the ideal
• 1:09:31
  that by with you define your life, then you'll just, you'll
• 1:09:34
  figure out a way to overcome those things and, and, and
• 1:09:37
  that's, that's really important. So I, I think having the right
• 1:09:39
  ideals, really, yeah. And ideally they have a right
• 1:09:43
  ideal. Ideally, that's what what
• 1:09:46
  Christianity is. It shows us the, the great
• 1:09:48
  ideals and we, what we give our lives for them.
• 1:09:50
  And we can do a lot of things with that.
• 1:09:52
  So it's not just me accommodating or me feeling
• 1:09:54
  comfortable or me not being stressed.
• 1:09:56
  I'm going after an ideal. I understand there's going to be
• 1:09:58
  pushed back trouble, the difficulties, but God, the joy
• 1:10:01
  as I approach this ideal is just so great.
• 1:10:05
  This the top thing says here says yours is a winsome
• 1:10:07
  temperament combination, which is a, you know, an advantage
• 1:10:11
  for, you know, pro-life work and things like that because you
• 1:10:13
  want to like persuade people. It's not about winning an
• 1:10:15
  argument, it's winning, it's about winning a person.
• 1:10:17
  I've got to ask about the idea of playing to 1's strength
• 1:10:20
  versus overcoming one's weaknesses.
• 1:10:22
  So you've you've repeatedly shared about the importance of
• 1:10:24
  virtue and you know, Jesus Christ, our model, our Lord,
• 1:10:28
  become perfect like I am perfect.
• 1:10:29
  So we want to aspire and and and and challenge ourselves and even
• 1:10:34
  in your parents, seeing how you were working carefully with
• 1:10:36
  these your different children to help them get out of their
• 1:10:39
  comfort zone and grow. But should we be always so
• 1:10:43
  focused on where am I lacking and how do I overcome this
• 1:10:46
  discomforts or should we more focus on these are the strengths
• 1:10:48
  that I have. I'm going to double down on both
• 1:10:51
  throwing these, Yeah, I think. It's absolutely both, both and
• 1:10:54
  yeah, strengths. You talk about that or?
• 1:10:57
  Well, the only, I think strengths from a, from a
• 1:10:59
  Christian point of view is you want to be careful that you're
• 1:11:02
  not giving yourself all the credit.
• 1:11:03
  It's a gift from God. And he did give you some gifts.
• 1:11:06
  Yeah, all three of us, some overlapping gifts, some
• 1:11:09
  different gifts. And you don't want to be doing
• 1:11:12
  this because that's that pride will just take you down.
• 1:11:16
  So I think with the right attitude of, you know, I guess
• 1:11:20
  you'd give me the strengths that I can raise for kids and I can
• 1:11:22
  be a good husband to Lorraine. I guess you'd give me that.
• 1:11:25
  So I'll do my best. So I think with that attitude
• 1:11:28
  towards strengths, but but he's given me some talents and gifts.
• 1:11:31
  That'll be a shame to to not use them.
• 1:11:33
  You know it to serve him and and to make this a world better
• 1:11:36
  place. Now the weaknesses though, you
• 1:11:40
  know, I mean like Saint Paul when he prayed for his
• 1:11:42
  weaknesses to go away and Christ goes, well, I'm not taking it
• 1:11:46
  away. My strength's enough for you.
• 1:11:48
  I think we all face that in some ways.
• 1:11:50
  Gosh, you know, by now I should have lost that weight or by now
• 1:11:52
  I should be more articulate or by now I should maybe make more
• 1:11:55
  money or more. Now I should be have a bigger
• 1:11:57
  impact on on this or that the other thing.
• 1:11:59
  And then you go, well, maybe it's not all about me.
• 1:12:03
  Maybe that weakness just puts me on my knees more and I have to
• 1:12:07
  ask the big guy for more help. Maybe that's that's what it is.
• 1:12:10
  It's Pauline that way. It's like this is a weakness I
• 1:12:12
  may always have, but I don't have to have it to keep me from
• 1:12:17
  serving him and continuing to grow.
• 1:12:19
  I may never be really good at it, but I may be good enough at
• 1:12:23
  it to serve him and, and to help my family.
• 1:12:27
  So I, I think it's both, you know, I know there's a big push.
• 1:12:30
  I was a seminary recently, a priest was kind of criticizing
• 1:12:32
  us because we were talking about both.
• 1:12:34
  And he goes, hey, Bennett, you're out of touch.
• 1:12:36
  It's strength Finder, baby. It's strength finders.
• 1:12:38
  Just find the strength of these priests, find the strength of
• 1:12:40
  these people and be that strength and make him feel good
• 1:12:43
  about it and we'll worry about somebody else, worry about the
• 1:12:46
  weaknesses. I go, well, I ain't Paul's view.
• 1:12:50
  I mean, is it? I mean, I don't know.
• 1:12:54
  So I don't, I think that I think Saint Paul gets maybe a good
• 1:12:57
  example and he he he broadcast his weakness all all over the
• 1:13:00
  place. Talk about the cross all the
• 1:13:01
  time. Well, he's an exceptional guy.
• 1:13:03
  I'm not denying that. But I think there's some truth
• 1:13:05
  to that for us. I think, like Lauren said, just
• 1:13:06
  both. I'm really good at some things.
• 1:13:08
  I'm still working on other things, but ideally in two or
• 1:13:11
  three months or years I'll be better with those things.
• 1:13:13
  Some of them I'll never nail, but I'll be OK with.
• 1:13:16
  I'll just do the best I can. I think that's kind of our fate.
• 1:13:19
  Do you think it's close? Yeah, I do.
• 1:13:21
  I think, I think we have to work on, I think we have to work on
• 1:13:24
  the the areas where we're, we have the weaknesses in the
• 1:13:28
  temperament. That is the clue right.
• 1:13:30
  There are natural weaknesses. That's where we need to try even
• 1:13:36
  harder to attain those virtues, to counteract those weaknesses.
• 1:13:40
  So, so for this sanguine, we want to encourage our sanguine
• 1:13:43
  kids and ourselves, if we're sanguine to persevere, you know,
• 1:13:48
  and to, to attain self mastery and self-control and you know,
• 1:13:53
  avoid distractions or whatever. But for the choleric, we have to
• 1:13:57
  grow in the virtue of, of humility and docility.
• 1:14:01
  I mean, it's crucial. And we already, you know, we
• 1:14:03
  have other strengths, may be natural virtues, but we do need
• 1:14:08
  to grow in the virtue of patience and the virtue of
• 1:14:12
  obedience and the virtue, you know, for the phlegmatic you
• 1:14:17
  have to grow in holy audacity. Magnanimity.
• 1:14:21
  Magnanimity. That's another one.
• 1:14:24
  And melancholics have to probably grow in the virtue.
• 1:14:27
  They probably have to grow in gratitude.
• 1:14:29
  I would guess gratitude, Charity maybe?
• 1:14:33
  It's harder. For them, but but like there's
• 1:14:35
  it, it all. So just knowing those kind of
• 1:14:39
  having that, that in your mind, I think it gives you something
• 1:14:41
  to work on. And I think it's important as As
• 1:14:45
  for spouses and important for as parents that we know these
• 1:14:50
  things. Yeah, awesome.
• 1:14:52
  Beautiful so such good stuff how I know people listen are like
• 1:14:56
  let's go on all these other there's so many other places to
• 1:14:59
  go. So you know, thank you for
• 1:15:01
  taking the time you've taken for this with this conversation.
• 1:15:04
  How can people read these books? Where can they find them and
• 1:15:08
  follow your? Work well, we we published with
• 1:15:12
  both Sophia and I think our Sunday visitor.
• 1:15:13
  They can look look him up there if they want to go.
• 1:15:15
  To the pub too. But Amazon has them all.
• 1:15:18
  If you can put an art vent or Lorraine Bennett, they come up
• 1:15:20
  and we have a we have a new book we Co wrote with our daughter
• 1:15:23
  they'll find there too on anxiety.
• 1:15:24
  So just put us in into the Amazon sphere and our name comes
• 1:15:28
  up and they can see some of the things we've worked on, I think.
• 1:15:30
  Yeah. Beautiful.
• 1:15:32
  Thank you for helping so many people with this work.
• 1:15:35
  It's so wonderful. Thank you.
• 1:15:37
  No, thank you. Thank you for having us.
• 1:15:40
  Yeah, it's been great to meet you and to see that you're
• 1:15:43
  sanguine. I know, yes, I know.
• 1:15:45
  Now I know. I hadn't actually taken the test
• 1:15:48
  yet on your website. So it resonates.
• 1:15:50
  It resonates. Well, there you go.
• 1:15:52
  All right, very good. Thank you so much.
• 1:15:55
  You'd be. A great kindergarten teacher.
• 1:15:58
  That is so funny. OK.
• 1:16:01
  There you go. Oh no, I guess I missed my
• 1:16:04
  calling. I don't think so.
• 1:16:06
  Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Lila Rose
• 1:16:08
  Show. It was so fun to explore
• 1:16:10
  temperaments. Let me know what you all think.
• 1:16:12
  Leave your comments in the comments section and go check
• 1:16:14
  out Art and Lorraine's beautiful work.
• 1:16:16
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• 1:16:19
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• 1:16:22
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• 1:16:24
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• 1:16:27
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• 1:16:30
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• 1:16:33
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• 1:16:36
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