Latest / The Ben Ferguson Podcast / Christian Persecution in Nigeria, Communist Crackdown on Christians in China & Senator Cruz Spied On Week In Review

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Christian Persecution in Nigeria, Communist Crackdown on Christians in China & Senator Cruz Spied On Week In Review · The Ben Ferguson Podcast

0:01
Speaker 1: Welcome.
0:01
Speaker 2: It is Verdict with Ted Cruz, the week in Review,
0:04
Speaker 2: Ben Ferguson with you, and here are some big stories
0:06
Speaker 2: that you may have missed that we talked about. First up,
0:09
Speaker 2: the killing of Christians in Nigeria is happening at a
0:13
Speaker 2: shocking rate. The media and the world not talking about it.
0:16
Speaker 2: We're going to shine a light on it and make
0:18
Speaker 2: sure that you know what you can do to help. Also,
0:22
Speaker 2: there is a crackdown on Christians in China. Why is
0:26
Speaker 2: this happening around the world. We'll give you the details
0:29
Speaker 2: on that and how we can also use our US
0:31
Speaker 2: government to help stop it. And finally, we now know
0:35
Speaker 2: what the Biden administration was doing when it comes as
0:37
Speaker 2: spying on conservatives, including even more members of Congress. This
0:43
Speaker 2: time they ask for the phone records and text messages
0:48
Speaker 2: of Senator Ted Cruz.
0:50
Speaker 1: It's the Weekend Review and it starts right now.
0:53
Speaker 2: And I want to move now center to something that
0:56
Speaker 2: you've been spearheading and leading on. It's certainly not getting
0:59
Speaker 2: attention media, but you're wanting to hold Nigeria accountable for
1:04
Speaker 2: the fifty thousand Let me see that number again, fifty
1:08
Speaker 2: thousand Christians that have been killed there, explain why this
1:13
Speaker 2: story is so important and what you're trying to do,
1:16
Speaker 2: and also why is no one covering this?
1:18
Speaker 1: Does this been described to me?
1:20
Speaker 3: Look, it is truly horrific. The numbers are stunning. The
1:25
Speaker 3: numbers are staggering. Here are the top line numbers of
1:29
Speaker 3: what we're seeing. We have seen over fifty thousand Christians killed.
1:35
Speaker 3: We have seen over eighteen thousand churches and at least
1:40
Speaker 3: two thousand schools burned. And the response to this, the
1:48
Speaker 3: Nigerian government is fighting back ferociously saying this is not happening,
1:53
Speaker 3: this is not true.
1:54
Speaker 4: There's a battle.
1:54
Speaker 3: The Nigerian government officials are getting very angry that I'm
1:57
Speaker 3: calling them out. I want to read to you from
2:01
Speaker 3: the executive summary of the U S State Department's twenty
2:04
Speaker 3: twenty four Country Report on Human Rights Practices in Nigeria,
2:09
Speaker 3: and here's what it says.
2:11
Speaker 4: Quote.
2:12
Speaker 3: Significant human rights issues included credible reports of arbitrary and
2:16
Speaker 3: unlawful killings, disappearances, torture or cruel inhuman or degrading treatment
2:23
Speaker 3: or punishment, arbitrary arrest or attention, serious abuses in a conflict,
2:30
Speaker 3: Serious restrictions on freedom of expression and media freedom. Including
2:34
Speaker 3: violence or threats of violence against journalists, violence or threats
2:38
Speaker 3: against labor activists or union members, and significant presence of
2:42
Speaker 3: any of the worst forms of child labor. Non state
2:46
Speaker 3: actors committed arbitrary and unlawful killings, disappearances, physical abuse, and
2:50
Speaker 3: other mistreatments. Boko Haram and the Islamic State in West
2:55
Speaker 3: Africa continued attacks on civilians, military, police, humanitarian and religious targets,
3:03
Speaker 3: unlawfully recruited and forcibly conscripted child soldiers, and carried out
3:10
Speaker 3: scores of attacks on population centers in the North East regions.
3:15
Speaker 3: Abductions by Bukoharram and the Islamic State in West Africa continued.
3:20
Speaker 3: Both groups subjected many women and girls to gender based violence,
3:26
Speaker 3: including forced marriage, sexual slavery, and rape. This is what's
3:33
Speaker 3: going on in Nigeria right now, and it is going
3:38
Speaker 3: on far too often with the acquiescence of the elected
3:44
Speaker 3: government officials. Far too often and in some instances, you
3:50
Speaker 3: have provinces in Nigeria that have on the books blasphemy
3:56
Speaker 3: law and Sharia law, and they will secute Christians for blasphemy.
4:02
Speaker 3: They will plot prosecute Christians for violating Sharia law in
4:06
Speaker 3: which case, the government becomes a tool of the persecution
4:11
Speaker 3: of Christians. And look it is, it is devastating. It
4:18
Speaker 3: is the most Christians being murdered anywhere on the face
4:22
Speaker 3: of the planet is happening in Nigeria. And so I
4:28
Speaker 3: introduce legislation to require the Secretary of State to designate
4:33
Speaker 3: Nigeria as a country of particular concern and to impose sanctions,
4:38
Speaker 3: including in particular sanctioning the individual government officials. So if
4:42
Speaker 3: you're a local official and you're enforcing blasphemy laws in
4:46
Speaker 3: Sharia laws, and you're persecuting Christians, or you're turning the
4:49
Speaker 3: other way and turning a blind eye to Christians being
4:54
Speaker 3: murdered at in mass numbers, the result of my legislation
4:59
Speaker 3: would be each of those individual government officials would face sanctions.
5:04
Speaker 3: And I got to say, the Nigerian government has been
5:06
Speaker 3: pushing back ferociously. For example, the Chairman of the House
5:10
Speaker 3: Committee on Foreign Affairs, Olke said the Cruse Bill is
5:16
Speaker 3: quote a deliberate attempt to damage the Nigerian image, and
5:21
Speaker 3: he insists Nigeria is a very tolerant country. Well other
5:26
Speaker 3: than murdering fifty thousand Christians, very tolerant other than that. Likewise,
5:30
Speaker 3: the Minister of Information and National Orientation, Mohammed Idris, rejected
5:36
Speaker 3: the suggestion that quote any Nigerian officials will willingly deliberately
5:41
Speaker 3: indulge in the act of siding with violent extremists to
5:43
Speaker 3: target any particular religion in the country. Likewise, Presidential spokesperson
5:51
Speaker 3: on Anungo demanded that Cruz stop his quote malicious and
5:57
Speaker 3: contrived lies against quote my country. And finally, Senate President
6:05
Speaker 3: God's Will Akpabillo cautioned against framing the crisis quote along
6:13
Speaker 3: religious lines since quote terrorists and bandits target Nigerians indiscriminately,
6:20
Speaker 3: regardless of faith. Now listen, it is certainly true that
6:23
Speaker 3: Bukoharam and other religious radicals in Nigeria are killing Muslims
6:27
Speaker 3: as well. They're killing both. But they are systematically targeting
6:32
Speaker 3: Christians for mass murder. When you've got fifty thousand Christians
6:35
Speaker 3: being murdered, that is not accidental, that is not random.
6:39
Speaker 3: And the over eighteen thousand churches and the over two
6:41
Speaker 3: thousand schools, they're singling out and targeting Christian churches and
6:46
Speaker 3: Christian schools and burning them to the ground. And the
6:50
Speaker 3: Government of Nigeria's not acting with any vigor at all
6:56
Speaker 3: to defend and to defend the Christians or just to
6:59
Speaker 3: keep them alive.
7:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, to keep them alive.
7:01
Speaker 2: And so now obviously this is about letting it shining
7:06
Speaker 2: a light on this, and then you go back to
7:08
Speaker 2: the policy aspect of this, what happens next and for
7:11
Speaker 2: people specifically that are listening, what do they need to
7:14
Speaker 2: be doing and advocating for to make sure that we
7:16
Speaker 2: can move this forward.
7:19
Speaker 3: Look, the next step needs to be that I'm pushing
7:24
Speaker 3: for the Congress to pass my legislation. I'm on the
7:27
Speaker 3: Senate Foreign Relations Committee, so I'm pressing for the Senate
7:30
Speaker 3: Foreign Relations Committee to take it up that would designate
7:34
Speaker 3: Nigeria as a country of particular concern. Now, I would
7:37
Speaker 3: note the Trump administration can do so on its own,
7:39
Speaker 3: and this is often the case in foreign policy areas,
7:42
Speaker 3: where I'll introduce legislation and I'll push for action. So,
7:45
Speaker 3: for example, I've introduced legislation to designate the Muslim Brotherhood
7:50
Speaker 3: is a terrorist organization. I've done so repeatedly in multiple congresses.
7:53
Speaker 3: I think it is unequivocally a terrorist organization. In fact,
7:57
Speaker 3: Hamas is a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood hamas Is
8:01
Speaker 3: is the Muslim Brotherhood in Palestine is what they call themselves,
8:06
Speaker 3: and that has not yet happened. But I would like
8:10
Speaker 3: to see Congress pass my legislation. But the most likely
8:13
Speaker 3: way we'll get the Muslim Brotherhood designated is that I
8:16
Speaker 3: will succeed in convincing President Trump and the Trump administration
8:19
Speaker 3: to do so. And I've been making that case vigorously.
8:21
Speaker 3: With respect to Nigeria, the same thing is true. I'm
8:24
Speaker 3: going to try to pass the legislation, but I'm also
8:26
Speaker 3: very much making the case to the Trump administration. They
8:30
Speaker 3: have the authority to do it now. And look, I
8:33
Speaker 3: want to point out you asked what people can do.
8:35
Speaker 3: Speak out highlight fifty thousand Christians massacred since two thousand
8:39
Speaker 3: and nine, the single greatest mass slaughter of Christians anywhere
8:43
Speaker 3: in the world. And look here's how Fox News put it.
8:48
Speaker 3: Quote a diplomatic battle as being waged between leading Republican
8:52
Speaker 3: Senator Ted Cruz and Nigerian government officials. The Texas senators
8:55
Speaker 3: has warned he will hold them accountable for the reported
8:58
Speaker 3: mass slaughter of tens of things thousands of Christians in Nigeria.
9:02
Speaker 3: The official SA Cruz is lying with one claiming that
9:04
Speaker 3: despite even the Pope publicly calling out the killings, there
9:09
Speaker 3: is religious harmony in the country. But you know what,
9:13
Speaker 3: maybe you don't believe me, Maybe you don't believe the Pope.
9:17
Speaker 3: So if the Pope and I are both wrong, how
9:21
Speaker 3: about this, maybe maybe you'll believe Bill Maher. You have
9:25
Speaker 3: a listen to what Bill Maher had to say on
9:27
Speaker 3: this topic.
9:27
Speaker 5: If you don't know what's going on in Nigeria, your
9:30
Speaker 5: media sources suck. You are in a bubble. And again,
9:35
Speaker 5: I'm not a Christian, but they are systematically killing the
9:38
Speaker 5: Christians in Nigeria. They've killed over one hundred thousand since
9:42
Speaker 5: two thousand and nine. They've burned eighteen thousand churches. This
9:45
Speaker 5: is so much more. These are the Islamis Fokoha ram.
9:48
Speaker 5: This is so much more of a genocide attempt than
9:51
Speaker 5: what is going on in Gaza. They are literally attempting
9:54
Speaker 5: to wipe out the Christian population of an entire country.
9:58
Speaker 1: Where are the kids protesting this?
10:01
Speaker 5: Very Still.
10:03
Speaker 4: No one will talk about it, so thank you.
10:06
Speaker 1: Absolutely it's Africa.
10:09
Speaker 5: That's what no one's talking about it and they should be.
10:11
Speaker 6: You can't read about it on mainstream media it's sad.
10:13
Speaker 4: So thank you for bringing the.
10:14
Speaker 5: Jews aren't involved. That's why what's the Christians and the.
10:18
Speaker 3: Muslims two players? He is exactly right, and I appreciate
10:22
Speaker 3: Bill Maher calling it out and shining a light on it.
10:26
Speaker 3: He's right that that that that the corporate media does
10:29
Speaker 3: not want to cover it. And by the way, on
10:31
Speaker 3: that same show, uh, someone you know, well, Van Jones
10:35
Speaker 3: from CNN. He was on that show. And Van Jones
10:39
Speaker 3: is a very left wing guy and he's on CNN regularly.
10:42
Speaker 3: But but but he commented and and and he chimed
10:45
Speaker 3: in agreeing with Bill Maher. Here give a listen to
10:47
Speaker 3: Van Jones talking talking about the slaughter of Christians in Nigeria.
10:52
Speaker 5: You're talking about young people. A lot of them seem
10:54
Speaker 5: to know one thing. White people did some very bad
10:56
Speaker 5: things in this world, and they certainly did. But there
10:58
Speaker 5: are other things.
10:59
Speaker 6: To know, and including the fact that in Sudan right now,
11:03
Speaker 6: which nobody is talking about, you have Arab militia murdering
11:07
Speaker 6: people by the wheelbarrow, including the fact that Africa right
11:09
Speaker 6: now is being overrun by Islamis terrasts including look, Rob
11:13
Speaker 6: with no conversation about that at all.
11:15
Speaker 5: I did it last week. Nigeria.
11:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean this is an.
11:19
Speaker 5: Actual planned genocide. Yes, I mean they really want to
11:22
Speaker 5: kill all the Christians in that country and they are
11:24
Speaker 5: systematically doing it.
11:26
Speaker 6: And the fact that there's almost no response from the
11:28
Speaker 6: global left and no attention from mainstream media is a
11:32
Speaker 6: crime against African people, black people, and human rights. I
11:35
Speaker 6: agree with that one hundred percent. It turns out that
11:39
Speaker 6: there's a double standard for Jews. That is true. No Jews,
11:44
Speaker 6: no news. As long as you can put the Jewish
11:46
Speaker 6: state in the conversation, it's going to be a big conversation.
11:48
Speaker 6: If you can't, you get no attention at all. This
11:51
Speaker 6: is a big problem. It is a big problem. I
11:54
Speaker 6: mean you hear Van Jones saying it. Yep, he is correct.
11:57
Speaker 6: It is a huge problem. No use, no news. I mean,
12:02
Speaker 6: it's amazing that this is happening.
12:04
Speaker 3: Look, we see the protest on college campuses. We see
12:09
Speaker 3: these angry leftists who are completely enraged about Gaza. The
12:13
Speaker 3: instant President Trump negotiates a peace deal, they go away.
12:17
Speaker 3: Now Hamas is executing Palestinians on the street, lighting up
12:20
Speaker 3: Palestinians on their knees, shooting them in the back of
12:22
Speaker 3: the head, and not a peep. These leftist radicals, they
12:25
Speaker 3: are perfectly fine with Palestinians being systematically murdered as long
12:30
Speaker 3: as it's Palestinians. As long as Hamas doing the murder.
12:34
Speaker 3: You don't see a protest, you don't see and he
12:36
Speaker 3: calls a genocide. Their protest is about one thing, which
12:40
Speaker 3: is they hate Israel and they hate Jews. And I
12:43
Speaker 3: got to say, where is ABC, where is CBS, Where
12:47
Speaker 3: is NBC? Where's CNN and MSNBC, Where's the New York Times?
12:51
Speaker 3: Where's the Washington Post? About the mass murder of over
12:56
Speaker 3: fifty thousand Christians in Nigeria.
12:58
Speaker 2: Now, if you want to hear the rest of this conversation,
13:01
Speaker 2: you can go back and listen to the full podcast
13:03
Speaker 2: from earlier this week. Now onto story number two center.
13:08
Speaker 2: It's time for us to talk about China. And a
13:10
Speaker 2: lot of people are talking about the economic issues with China,
13:13
Speaker 2: sanctions and tariffs. The subject we're about to talk about
13:17
Speaker 2: is what I hope people share everywhere on social media.
13:20
Speaker 2: This is why we do this show, and it's so important,
13:23
Speaker 2: and this is what's happening in China, cracking down on Christianity,
13:27
Speaker 2: right now and is not being talked about enough well.
13:32
Speaker 3: Communist China has a terrible record when it comes to
13:35
Speaker 3: religious liberty and religious persecution, and in particular the persecution
13:39
Speaker 3: of Christians, and China has for decades persecuted Christians in China,
13:46
Speaker 3: but recently they've been cracking down and it's been getting
13:48
Speaker 3: worth So here's how I put it to Fox News
13:52
Speaker 3: this week. The Chinese Communist Party is conducting yet another
13:57
Speaker 3: sweeping crackdown on Christians, and they're again targeting Pastor Jin
14:02
Speaker 3: and the Zion Church. The CCP fears anything it cannot
14:07
Speaker 3: directly control, perhaps most of all faith. The United States
14:13
Speaker 3: has powerful tools to provide protection and relief to people
14:17
Speaker 3: facing persecution and violence, and we should use those tools
14:22
Speaker 3: unless and until China releases the members of the Zion Church.
14:27
Speaker 3: And what has happened is is China arrested several Christian leaders,
14:32
Speaker 3: including the pastor of one of the country's biggest underground
14:36
Speaker 3: evangelical church churches, and that's Pastor Jin Mingry, whose children
14:42
Speaker 3: are US citizens. Grace Jin, who is Mingri's daughter, was
14:49
Speaker 3: very kind but went out of her way to thank
14:52
Speaker 3: me for fighting to release her father from prison and
14:56
Speaker 3: here's what Grace Jen said. She said quote his efforts
15:00
Speaker 3: demonstrate that the world is watching on as the Chinese
15:03
Speaker 3: government unjustly imprisons pastors and church leaders for the peaceful
15:09
Speaker 3: exercise of their faith. Thank you to the leaders here
15:12
Speaker 3: and abroad for all the support and solidarity and CENTATR.
15:17
Speaker 2: This is I think the part that's so frustrating for
15:19
Speaker 2: me and so many listening is this has been happening
15:22
Speaker 2: for so long, and because so many countries do business
15:26
Speaker 2: with China, they have deliberately looked the other way because
15:30
Speaker 2: they're basically saying, Hey, we'd rather just get along and
15:32
Speaker 2: do trade and get cheap Chinese goods and actually hold
15:36
Speaker 2: them account for what they're doing to Christians.
15:38
Speaker 4: Well, that's happening far too often.
15:40
Speaker 3: And we've discussed before on this podcast the persecution the
15:44
Speaker 3: mass murder of Christians in Nigeria. Nigeria the most Christians
15:48
Speaker 3: are murdered for their faith of any country on earth,
15:50
Speaker 3: and I've been leading the effort to hold Nigeria do
15:53
Speaker 3: account while in China. Likewise, for my entire time in
15:56
Speaker 3: the Senate, I've been vocal speaking out for Christians being
15:59
Speaker 3: persecuted in China and and this crackdown. Actually, next week
16:04
Speaker 3: President Trump is is going to Asia and is gonna
16:07
Speaker 3: gonna meet with with President She of China. And and so,
16:11
Speaker 3: just this past week I introduced a bipartisan resolution condemning
16:16
Speaker 3: China's persecution of Christians in particular and Pastor gen and
16:22
Speaker 3: and and I was joined by Chris Coons. Chris is
16:25
Speaker 3: a Democrat, uh and and and Chris is someone who
16:28
Speaker 3: cares deeply about religious liberty. And so we joined together
16:31
Speaker 3: with a bipartisan resolution calling on China to release Pastor Jin,
16:36
Speaker 3: to stop targeting the Zion Church, to release the pastors
16:40
Speaker 3: and the Christians who've been imprisoned, and and and to
16:43
Speaker 3: cease engaging in persecution of religious liberty writ broadly, and
16:49
Speaker 3: and of Christians in particular.
16:52
Speaker 2: It really is one of those it's that is frustrating.
16:55
Speaker 2: And now this comes back to the issue of leverage.
16:57
Speaker 2: Is this going to be enough leverage to poss We
17:00
Speaker 2: see a change here, because one thing that we've learned
17:03
Speaker 2: is China only responds when their pocketbook gets hurt. And
17:06
Speaker 2: if they don't think we have the political will to
17:09
Speaker 2: stand up for Christians, then they're going to continue to
17:12
Speaker 2: persecute them.
17:12
Speaker 1: No matter what, that's just their mo.
17:16
Speaker 4: They are.
17:17
Speaker 3: But they respond to pressure. They respond to pressure in
17:20
Speaker 3: two forms. Number one to being publicly called out, to
17:23
Speaker 3: having light shine on their oppression. And number two, they
17:26
Speaker 3: respond to economic leverage. And President Trump is very effective
17:29
Speaker 3: at employing economic leverage. I think we should do both.
17:33
Speaker 3: Our bipartisan resolution is aimed at quote, expressing condemnation of
17:38
Speaker 3: the Chinese Communist parties persecution of Christians and reaffirming the
17:43
Speaker 3: United States's global commitment to promote religious freedom and tolerance.
17:47
Speaker 3: And it also includes a demand that the Chinese Communist
17:51
Speaker 3: Party respect the human right to freedom of religion and
17:55
Speaker 3: end all forms of violence and discrimination against religious minorities.
18:01
Speaker 3: And the resolution notes the CCP's actions mark the largest
18:06
Speaker 3: coordinated nationwide crackdown against a Christian urban house church in
18:12
Speaker 3: more than forty years.
18:15
Speaker 4: It also notes that.
18:16
Speaker 3: The US Commission on International Religious Freedom designated China as
18:20
Speaker 3: a country of quote particular concern for religious freedom every
18:25
Speaker 3: single year since nineteen ninety eight, and Pastor Jin of
18:30
Speaker 3: the Zion Church was detained by Chinese authorities, and indeed
18:37
Speaker 3: that came as nearly thirty Zion Church pastors and workers
18:42
Speaker 3: were likewise detained or went missing across Beijing, Senjing, Shanghai, Chendo, Behai, Jingshing,
18:51
Speaker 3: and huang Do. And I apologize for my Chinese pronunciation.
18:56
Speaker 1: I'll forgive you.
18:58
Speaker 3: But here's here's what Grace Jen said about this, and
19:03
Speaker 3: she's Pastor Jen's daughter. One after another they were also
19:08
Speaker 3: taken detained like they were saying that they were people
19:12
Speaker 3: outside the doors. Then one at a time they were
19:15
Speaker 3: taken into custody.
19:17
Speaker 4: This is wrong.
19:19
Speaker 3: And President Trump has an opportunity when he is in Asia,
19:23
Speaker 3: when he is with President She, to call on President
19:26
Speaker 3: She to release these pastors, release Pastor Jen, release the
19:30
Speaker 3: Christians who are being persecuted, and stop persecuting people of faith.
19:35
Speaker 3: And I think the United States has a responsibility to
19:39
Speaker 3: be a voice for religious liberty across the country, to
19:42
Speaker 3: defend Christians when they're persecuted, to defend Jews when they're persecuted,
19:46
Speaker 3: to defend people of faith all across the world. You know,
19:51
Speaker 3: you look at radical Islamic terrorists, many of them target
19:54
Speaker 3: and persecute other Muslims who are not violent. And I
19:58
Speaker 3: think religious persecut is wrong, regardless of who the victims are,
20:04
Speaker 3: and we should be a voice for religious liberty. Now,
20:07
Speaker 3: that doesn't mean that America should go and invade China
20:11
Speaker 3: to try to break the pastor out of jail. But
20:14
Speaker 3: there are lots of tools that the president can use,
20:17
Speaker 3: including the bully pulpit of the presidency, including shining a light,
20:23
Speaker 3: and including also economic leverage to try to stop this persecution.
20:28
Speaker 3: And I very much hope President Trump will do so
20:31
Speaker 3: in the coming week.
20:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, you and I both hope that final question on this.
20:37
Speaker 2: As you watch President Trump with pressure not just on
20:39
Speaker 2: China but other countries, it does seem to be that
20:42
Speaker 2: his foreign policy now is if there is a wrong
20:45
Speaker 2: that needs to be discussed, it's going to be on
20:48
Speaker 2: the table, front and center. That is pretty different from
20:51
Speaker 2: what we've seen in past administrations where they're like, well,
20:53
Speaker 2: maybe it's not the time to bring that up. Right now,
20:55
Speaker 2: he seems to be willing to bring it all up.
20:58
Speaker 3: You're absolutely right, and strong American leadership can stand up
21:02
Speaker 3: to tyrannies. The Soviet Union was terrified of Ronald Reagan.
21:06
Speaker 3: That's how we won the Cold War without firing a shot,
21:08
Speaker 3: and Communist China and our enemies across the globe are
21:11
Speaker 3: terrified of Donald Trump and that's why we're seeing such
21:14
Speaker 3: major national security improvements right.
21:16
Speaker 1: Now as before.
21:17
Speaker 2: If you want to hear the rest of this conversation
21:20
Speaker 2: on this topic, you can go back and dow the
21:22
Speaker 2: podcasts from earlier this week to hear the entire thing.
21:26
Speaker 2: I want to get back to the big story, number
21:28
Speaker 2: three of the week. You may have missed, all right, senator,
21:31
Speaker 2: So let's start with the big news. Where were you
21:35
Speaker 2: when you found out that you respied on as part
21:38
Speaker 2: of Jacksmith's investigation into Donald Trump. This clearly is a
21:42
Speaker 2: fishing expedition. And what were you told? Have you been
21:46
Speaker 2: briefed on this or are you just getting to say
21:48
Speaker 2: mentel we are from reading it in the news.
21:50
Speaker 4: So I found out about this last week. Last Thursday.
21:53
Speaker 3: I got the information. And let's back up a couple
21:56
Speaker 3: of weeks ago. A couple of weeks ago, the news
21:58
Speaker 3: broke that x Smith, the prosecutor and the Biden DOJ
22:03
Speaker 3: that was going after January sixth, that was going after
22:05
Speaker 3: President Trump had subpoenaed eight senators and one Republican house
22:10
Speaker 3: member and had gotten their cell phone records. And the
22:14
Speaker 3: eight senators who had been subpoena were Marsha Blackburn, Ron Johnson,
22:18
Speaker 3: Bill Haggerty, Josh Holly, Cynthia Lummis, Lindsey Graham, Dan Sullivan,
22:23
Speaker 3: and Tommy Tuberville. And then Mike Kelly, a Republican House
22:27
Speaker 3: member from Pennsylvania, was also subpoenaed. All nine of them
22:31
Speaker 3: had their cell phone records handed over to the Biden
22:34
Speaker 3: Department of Justice. Now, I got to admit just over
22:37
Speaker 3: a week ago, Sean Hannity was in town and I
22:40
Speaker 3: had dinner with Sean and with several of the senators
22:45
Speaker 3: on that list as well, and I was laughing with Sean.
22:49
Speaker 3: I was saying, I'm actually kind of offended, like how.
22:52
Speaker 4: Did I get lift out of this list? Like what
22:54
Speaker 4: did I have to do? You know?
22:57
Speaker 3: I was literally standing on the Senate floor on January sixth,
23:01
Speaker 3: objecting and leading the fight, and I had brought together
23:06
Speaker 3: eleven senators to stand together in fighting for an election
23:10
Speaker 3: commission to assess the evidence of voter fraud, and including
23:15
Speaker 3: many of the senators who were subpoena were in the
23:18
Speaker 3: group that I'd brought together. So I was joking with Sean,
23:21
Speaker 3: but I wasn't entirely joking. Well, it turns out the
23:24
Speaker 3: reason I was not on the list is apparently all
23:26
Speaker 3: eight of those senators. Their cell phones are with Verizon,
23:30
Speaker 3: and the evidence had come out that Verizon had handed
23:32
Speaker 3: over their cell phone information. Well, my cell phone is
23:36
Speaker 3: with AT and T and I didn't know it at
23:39
Speaker 3: the time, but I found out late last week that
23:42
Speaker 3: Jack Smith sent a subpoena at AT and T demanding my
23:46
Speaker 3: cell phone records, and AT and T told him to
23:49
Speaker 3: go jump in lake. AT and T did not give
23:53
Speaker 3: my cell phone records. I really look AT and T
23:56
Speaker 3: is based in Texas. I'm proud of them. They did
23:58
Speaker 3: the right thing. I appreciate that, and and they assessed it.
24:03
Speaker 3: They had a subpoena from Jack Smith. By the way,
24:06
Speaker 3: the subpoena called for quote, detailed records for inbound and
24:13
Speaker 3: outbound calls, text messages, direct connect and voicemail messages, among
24:20
Speaker 3: other things. So they were seeking that. There was an
24:22
Speaker 3: also an order from Judge Boseburg, who was you know this,
24:26
Speaker 3: This left wing judge has been presiding against over much
24:30
Speaker 3: of the litigation against against Trump, had an order from
24:34
Speaker 3: Judge Boseburg ordering AT and T you cannot disclose to
24:39
Speaker 3: Cruise that we're seeking his cell phone information for a year.
24:42
Speaker 2: Isn't that amazing, By the way, and you're sitting unin
24:45
Speaker 2: State Center, don't tell him, we don't want him to know.
24:47
Speaker 3: Yes, And so AT and T examined it, and they
24:51
Speaker 3: actually they came to the conclusion. Now, the way it works,
24:55
Speaker 3: so the subpoena just comes and and they get a
24:57
Speaker 3: cell phone number. So so so the Biden DOJ didn't
25:01
Speaker 3: identify who they were seeking. And and by the way, look,
25:04
Speaker 3: the telecom companies typically if they get a subpoena for
25:09
Speaker 3: for phone records on a number, they typically hand it
25:12
Speaker 3: over because it's usually a drug dealer or a criminal.
25:14
Speaker 3: You have a subpoena that's issued from a grand jury,
25:16
Speaker 3: so so it it they will routinely in a criminal
25:20
Speaker 3: proceeding hand over.
25:22
Speaker 5: Uh.
25:23
Speaker 3: Well, it's so happened that that AT and T even
25:25
Speaker 3: though they just asked for the number, they looked and
25:27
Speaker 3: realized whose number it was, and and and that they
25:31
Speaker 3: talked with their legal team and and and they said, listen,
25:35
Speaker 3: what what Cruz is saying is it and any member
25:38
Speaker 3: of Congress, what they're saying is protected by the Speech
25:40
Speaker 3: and Debate Clause of the Constitution. The Constitution uh protects
25:45
Speaker 3: the ability of of of Senators and House members to
25:48
Speaker 3: engage in debate to to do our jobs. Article one
25:52
Speaker 3: of the Constitution vests all legislative power in the Congress.
25:57
Speaker 3: And and in fact, we you know on January it
26:00
Speaker 3: was very literally speech in debate. As I said, I
26:03
Speaker 3: was standing on the Senate floor, Yeah, giving a speech
26:06
Speaker 3: and raising an objection. So it's literally the heart of
26:09
Speaker 3: what one does as an elected member of Congress. And
26:12
Speaker 3: so at and T concluded, listen there, we're not going
26:17
Speaker 3: to comply. As I said, I'm grateful for At and
26:20
Speaker 3: T doing that, but that now makes it nine senators
26:23
Speaker 3: that we know of and one House.
26:25
Speaker 2: So I'm guessing there might be other senators that were
26:28
Speaker 2: also at At and T and they probably said no, we're
26:30
Speaker 2: not going to do that either. Right, it would be
26:31
Speaker 2: Verizon just caved instantly and said, sure, here's everybody you're
26:34
Speaker 2: asking for. There could be easily, I would say, another four, five,
26:37
Speaker 2: six others. Who knows how many outside the Senate right
26:41
Speaker 2: that they could have asked for that they could have
26:42
Speaker 2: said no to as well. And I would assume there
26:44
Speaker 2: was a lot of people on At and.
26:45
Speaker 3: T well, And look the Biden doj also after the
26:51
Speaker 3: Republican Attorney General's Association. It went after Turning Point USA.
26:55
Speaker 3: This was a massive fishing expedition and this was a
27:01
Speaker 3: political persecution.
27:02
Speaker 4: Understand.
27:03
Speaker 3: Jack Smith was appointed Special Counsel to investigate and prosecute
27:06
Speaker 3: January sixth, three days after Donald Trump announced his campaign
27:13
Speaker 3: for reelection in twenty twenty four, literally three days later,
27:16
Speaker 3: so it was twenty twenty two, So it was two
27:18
Speaker 3: years after January sixth. They had not appointed anyone, and
27:21
Speaker 3: yet suddenly when Trump announces his campaign, they rushed to
27:25
Speaker 3: appoint Jack Smith to say, go after Donald Trump because
27:28
Speaker 3: we want to stop the voters from.
27:30
Speaker 4: Voting for him.
27:31
Speaker 3: Sure, but nine senators, that is twenty percent of the
27:36
Speaker 3: Republicans in the United States Senate. And I got to
27:38
Speaker 3: say for the executive branch to engage in wholesale spying
27:46
Speaker 3: on their political opponents and spying with let's be clear,
27:50
Speaker 3: none of us engaged in criminal conduct. None of us
27:53
Speaker 3: can engage in anything remotely criminal, arguably criminal. This was
27:58
Speaker 3: political persecution. This was snooping. This is hoping. Someone said something.
28:04
Speaker 1: I was going to ask you, what were they hoping
28:06
Speaker 1: to find?
28:06
Speaker 4: Right?
28:07
Speaker 1: Like you go fishing and what what is this smoking gun?
28:10
Speaker 2: In that scenario they were they were just, hey, we'll
28:12
Speaker 2: just go after all these conservatives and maybe we get lucky.
28:17
Speaker 3: Look, I don't know what they were hoping to find,
28:19
Speaker 3: but but but they were asking for the cell phone
28:22
Speaker 3: records from from January fourth to January seventh, so all
28:26
Speaker 3: surrounding January sixth. I assumed they were looking for some
28:30
Speaker 3: some modicum of coordination, uh with with with those who
28:34
Speaker 3: engage in active violence on that day. Part of their
28:39
Speaker 3: theory was was the alternate electors that were being sent
28:42
Speaker 3: from various states. So I assumed they were looking for
28:45
Speaker 3: some modicum of coordination there. But this was a political
28:49
Speaker 3: prosecution because they did not have evidence. And so they said, well,
28:54
Speaker 3: let's let's go through their cell phone records and see
28:57
Speaker 3: if we can find something. And by the way, who
28:59
Speaker 3: knows if if somebody had sent something stupid a text,
29:03
Speaker 3: had a voicemail, had you know, I mean people when
29:08
Speaker 3: you go through someone's emails, when you go through someone's
29:11
Speaker 3: cell phones, when prosecutors go looking for a crime, the
29:18
Speaker 3: nature of a fishing expedition is, let's go look around.
29:21
Speaker 3: You know, there's a book that was written decades ago.
29:24
Speaker 3: Uh that that that that's called three felonies a day,
29:27
Speaker 3: and and it talks about how the average American commits
29:30
Speaker 3: three felonies a day, that that in our regulatory state,
29:32
Speaker 3: things are so complicated, things are so mired in complexity
29:36
Speaker 3: that that that you can violate you know, you you
29:39
Speaker 3: step on a wetland in your backyard. And and and
29:43
Speaker 3: you know there's an old line that a prosecutor can
29:47
Speaker 3: indict a ham sandwich. Yeah, that that a prosecutor goes
29:50
Speaker 3: in front of a grand jury. When a prosecutor goes
29:52
Speaker 3: in front of a grand jury, you know, there's no
29:54
Speaker 3: defense attorney there. It's just the prosecutor and members of
29:57
Speaker 3: the grand jury. And so I don't know what they
30:00
Speaker 3: were looking for. I think they were looking for anything
30:02
Speaker 3: that could stick because this was a political prosecution. Let
30:06
Speaker 3: me ask you this if and so Ben, I just
30:09
Speaker 3: want to say, I'm really grateful they did not find
30:14
Speaker 3: the pictures you send to me of you in a
30:16
Speaker 3: pink too too, because I just think that it's not criminal.
30:20
Speaker 2: All the league jokes that I send you about the
30:22
Speaker 2: Ivy League snobs. I mean, Jack Smith probably ended up
30:25
Speaker 2: going to one of those places that could have been
30:27
Speaker 2: very bad for me.
30:28
Speaker 4: I it you know it would have been.
30:33
Speaker 3: And I got to say, just the typos and misspellings
30:36
Speaker 3: that that that you have in your text, that that
30:38
Speaker 3: alone would.
30:39
Speaker 4: Have been a little bit embarrassing too. So I'm glad
30:42
Speaker 4: none of that game.
30:43
Speaker 2: News is they're very hard to decipher when you're if there,
30:46
Speaker 2: if it's in front of you know, Congress, like it's
30:48
Speaker 2: what was been really trying to say, And I'm like,
30:50
Speaker 2: you're welcome.
30:50
Speaker 4: I will tell you bet.
30:52
Speaker 3: I think I talked to AT and T today and
30:54
Speaker 3: I said, look, you guys got to start a marketing
30:56
Speaker 3: campaign of shift to AT and T.
30:58
Speaker 4: We'll we'll protect your Yeah, we're like to them.
31:03
Speaker 3: Look, I I don't have a good answer to that.
31:06
Speaker 4: But but but but I did. Uh.
31:08
Speaker 3: And I didn't know about this until just a few
31:10
Speaker 3: days ago. So this was when the first news broke.
31:13
Speaker 3: I like, I was joking that I felt excluded, but
31:16
Speaker 3: it wasn't entirely a joke. And and then I was like, oh, okay,
31:19
Speaker 3: that makes sense, and uh, and here.
31:21
Speaker 2: We are, all right if I don't question on this,
31:24
Speaker 2: what is gonna be the response from Congress? Will there
31:28
Speaker 2: be any to this or is this just old administration
31:31
Speaker 2: abuse of power?
31:32
Speaker 1: It is what it is.
31:33
Speaker 2: We're going to move on or is there going to
31:35
Speaker 2: be a way to make sure like we have standards
31:37
Speaker 2: of this is not allowed to happen and that people
31:39
Speaker 2: are held accountable for this.
31:41
Speaker 3: Look, I think we're going to see hearings. I think
31:43
Speaker 3: we've we've we've got hearings coming in the House. I
31:46
Speaker 3: think we'll see hearings in the Senate. I will tell
31:49
Speaker 3: you the nine of us who were targeted, we're we're
31:51
Speaker 3: talking to each other because we want to prevent this.
31:54
Speaker 3: We want to prevent a subsequent DOJ from doing this,
31:57
Speaker 3: from spying on their political opponents, particularly in in Congress.
32:02
Speaker 3: The executive doesn't have the ability to go engage in
32:05
Speaker 3: spying on on members of the opposing party in Congress.
32:09
Speaker 4: That is an.
32:10
Speaker 3: Abuse of power. It is it is politicization.
32:15
Speaker 4: Uh.
32:15
Speaker 3: And and this that this entire effort, So so this
32:21
Speaker 3: prosecution was called Arctic Frost. And and I think this
32:24
Speaker 3: is going to be the watergate of the Biden d
32:26
Speaker 3: o J. I think it is a demonstration that Jack
32:30
Speaker 3: Smith was a partisan prosecutor who was drunk on power
32:35
Speaker 3: and and and and I don't believe Jack Smith made
32:38
Speaker 3: this decision on his own. I think the decision making
32:41
Speaker 3: goes all the way up. I think it goes up
32:43
Speaker 3: to the Attorney General. I think it goes up to
32:44
Speaker 3: the White House. And and so I expect number one
32:47
Speaker 3: some some real investigation and hopefully transparency in terms of
32:51
Speaker 3: who approved let's go spy on members of Congress and
32:54
Speaker 3: and and and and that that I think we're going
32:58
Speaker 3: to work to have some real transparent and on and
33:00
Speaker 3: that I think we're gonna look at real and concrete
33:03
Speaker 3: steps we can take to make sure this never happens again,
33:05
Speaker 3: because this kind of there is there a.
33:07
Speaker 2: Part of you that just thinks like maybe this has
33:10
Speaker 2: just been going on and never really stopped. After after
33:13
Speaker 2: you know, the the the famous FBI director that had
33:16
Speaker 2: you know, files on everybody, and and people said, well,
33:20
Speaker 2: we won't have that again, after after Jagger, and and
33:23
Speaker 2: now it's like they're just like they wild West. You
33:26
Speaker 2: can do what the hell you want to if you're
33:27
Speaker 2: a Democrat and you're in charge, Like we can spawn
33:29
Speaker 2: in the present, we can spy the campaigns. We can
33:31
Speaker 2: go after people in the situation room and the trap them.
33:34
Speaker 2: We can try to go after their business associates and
33:36
Speaker 2: their kids and get them to turn against them, like
33:39
Speaker 2: Eric Trump was talking about that on our.
33:40
Speaker 1: Show the day.
33:41
Speaker 2: If you missed that show, people should go back and
33:42
Speaker 2: listen to He's like they were literally trying to turn
33:45
Speaker 2: Donald Trump's own children against him, threatening that your life's
33:48
Speaker 2: gonna be over and you're gonna be in jail, so
33:50
Speaker 2: you better get a get out of jail free card.
33:52
Speaker 2: And now it's like yeah, and we were also spaying
33:54
Speaker 2: on senators. I'm assuming some congressmen will come out like
33:57
Speaker 2: who knows who's there? We I mean, Charlie Kirk said
34:01
Speaker 2: recently before assassination. It came out that he said during
34:05
Speaker 2: the campaign, we either win the campaign or I may
34:08
Speaker 2: go to jail. I actually believe now witnessing what we've
34:12
Speaker 2: seen that that's not far off from reality at all.
34:15
Speaker 3: Look, the left was willing to weaponize the Department of
34:20
Speaker 3: Justice and the FBI. As you know, I wrote an
34:22
Speaker 3: entire book entitled Justice Corrupted, How the Left is weaponized
34:25
Speaker 3: our legal system, and it talked about it actually started
34:28
Speaker 3: with Richard Nixon. Richard Nixon tried to do that and
34:30
Speaker 3: and you look at some of the some of the
34:33
Speaker 3: hair brain schemes that the Nixon Justice Department came up with,
34:36
Speaker 3: including creating underground stings to to get people, to get
34:43
Speaker 3: people on film taking drugs and with prostitutes to use
34:47
Speaker 3: to essentially blackmail them and to go after their political opponents.
34:50
Speaker 3: I mean, it was grotesque abuse of power. And when
34:55
Speaker 3: that came to light, we actually saw an improvement. And
34:57
Speaker 3: there were a couple of decades where I think this
34:59
Speaker 3: this receded and occurred far less. And then what Richard
35:05
Speaker 3: Nixon tried to do to the justice system, Barack Obama
35:09
Speaker 3: succeeded in doing. He came in as this this almost
35:13
Speaker 3: messiah figure and and and do o j Eric Holders
35:18
Speaker 3: Attorney General. You had Lois Learner at the IRS. They
35:21
Speaker 3: began targeting their political opponents, targeting targeting anyone that they
35:26
Speaker 3: disagreed with, and also protecting their friends. During the Trump
35:29
Speaker 3: administration the first term, they went underground, but they waged
35:33
Speaker 3: war on the president. These are the people that created
35:36
Speaker 3: fraudulent documents submitted to the FISA Court in order to
35:39
Speaker 3: in order to try to go after President Trump. They
35:42
Speaker 3: wanted to reverse the results of the twenty sixteen election
35:46
Speaker 3: because they were furious that the American people elected Trump.
35:49
Speaker 3: And then during Biden they were opened, they were flagrant,
35:52
Speaker 3: they were out in the open, and they were abusing
35:54
Speaker 3: their power. And I think they felt that the ends
35:57
Speaker 3: justified the means and and anything was acceptable, And so
36:03
Speaker 3: I think we need to take real steps. Do I
36:05
Speaker 3: think this has been going on forever?
36:07
Speaker 4: And ever? I don't. I certainly hope not. I'm not
36:09
Speaker 4: aware that it has.
36:11
Speaker 3: There is there, there's ancient history, but it took really
36:15
Speaker 3: I think, under Biden to make it just as as
36:20
Speaker 3: viciously partisan as.
36:22
Speaker 1: Well as Imma.
36:23
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, it will's came off and no one cared
36:25
Speaker 2: about the rules anymore.
36:26
Speaker 1: Clearly, it's incredible.
36:28
Speaker 2: As always, thank you for listening to Verdict with Center
36:31
Speaker 2: Ted Cruz Ben Ferguson with you don't forget to deal
36:34
Speaker 2: with my podcast and you can listen to my podcast
36:36
Speaker 2: every other day you're not listening to Verdict or each
36:38
Speaker 2: day when you.
36:39
Speaker 1: Listen to Verdict.
36:39
Speaker 2: Afterwards, I'd love to have you as a listener to
36:42
Speaker 2: again the Ben Ferguson podcasts, and we will see you
36:45
Speaker 2: back here on Monday morning.