Latest / The Good Builder Podcast / The Daily Dose #267 | Farah Drake on 30 Years, Granny Flats, and Why Building Is a Privilege
Transcript
- Aaron Ng (00:17) good morning and welcome to the Good Builder podcast. Today's episode is about longevity. And really interestingly, I just had a chat with this amazing lady before this podcast about my lack of longevity in the building industry and hers is about 10 times longer. She's amazing. And it's about what it actually takes to build a career in business in residential construction over 30 years and still be standing with these standards intact. My guest is Farah Drake. Farah is a registered builder and director of Willow Grove Homes and Granny Flats, based in South East Melbourne. She specialises in granny flats, small second dwellings and multi-generational housing solutions. A space that is growing fast and not well understood by a lot of builders. I personally think there's going to be a lot of this sort of thing going on in the next few years. And there's been reports across a lot of associations that this is the way that a lot of these regional and metropolitan areas are going to go. Farah is one of a relatively small number of female building company directors in Australia. And that is why we are honored also to have her on the podcast. She's someone that never tries to make the headlines. always in the background doing the work to improve the industry. She runs around talking about women in construction and advocating for our industry. And it is our absolute pleasure to have Farah on the podcast today. How are you, Farah? Farah Drake (01:43) wonderful. What a wonderful introduction. Thank you so much for having me. Aaron Ng (01:44) Yeah. Well, no worries. Well, you know, beside all of that, you know, you are active in the HIA. You are a genuine advocate for raising the standards of the industry and my chat before with you. And I said, thank you so much for just getting to know you a little more. You're a fascinating person in this industry. And I am so grateful to have people like you on our podcast. Like you are doing some amazing things in the background. And as you sort of said, and And thank you for a little compliment to the good builder. But this is why we do the good builder, you know, to bring people like you on and understand, you know, what you're up to and where it all started. So we might even start there if you don't mind Farah. Like, how did you get into this industry 30 years ago and what happened? Farah Drake (02:30) Yeah, well, so family business. So I am a second generation ⁓ business owner with my family. Originally my dad's and his brother's business and then they separated and went their own ways. And I just came on to give dad a hand and didn't really leave. it was sort of, know, I finished school and he needed help. So he taught me Aaron Ng (02:32) Yeah, wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, well. Farah Drake (02:55) bits and pieces. And then I was doing uni and still working with him. And I was like, yeah, I'm not going to do this. But you know, this is just sort of the in-between, shall we say. Well, I'm doing uni and everything like that, left for a little bit. And then he had somebody else working with him for a bit and they actually passed away. And I was, you know, wanting to come back into the business, I suppose. I was looking for something different and he said, well, I need a hand and you know the business. So... Aaron Ng (02:56) Yeah. Farah Drake (03:21) come back in and I never left, which again wasn't my intention. So it was sort of the love of it grew. So I came back, I came in in more of an administrative role and over time, I think it was, how did it happen? Dad actually, I think had injured himself, you know, when he was sort of on site a lot and everything. And so he asked me to give him a hand one day and it was like mind-blowing, loving building on site. I was down a hole. Aaron Ng (03:24) Wow. Yeah. Farah Drake (03:49) more in concrete, having the time of my life. I loved it, I loved it. So when I do get on site, it doesn't happen as much these days, but when I do get on site, I'm just like, like piggy in poo, ass. That's terrible. You know when I'm coming in concrete or I'm doing stuff and it's just, it's my jam. It's like my geek speak, I love it. So yeah. Aaron Ng (03:51) And he loved it. Yeah. Very true. I love it. I love it. I love ⁓ it. Wow. Was it just in the blood from the family fire or were you always quite a physical kind of kid? Like... Okay. Yeah. Farah Drake (04:16) Well, when was... always been very physical, always been really sporty, all that sort of thing. But when I think back, you know, I'm one of two, I've got an older sister. But when dad was doing stuff around the house, he always had me on the roof cleaning out the gutters. He always had me doing stuff. And so, you know, even when to the old catalog days, I loved catalogs. Yeah, I'm a girl, I love shopping. That sort of thing. It's just, it's like we're born with it. But I looked at the tool catalog. Yeah, it was like, what are these girls? How exciting is this? So I think it was probably, I was just Aaron Ng (04:33) You Yeah Yeah, well... Farah Drake (04:46) I that way. Family blood. Aaron Ng (04:48) This is awesome. This is where I can, you you can feel the energy and passion from you Farah as you talk about it. Like this is so cool. You know, you were just born to build. You know, if you don't mind me asking, yeah, go, go. Sorry. If you don't mind me asking. Farah Drake (04:56) Yeah. Oh look I think I was. Yep. Wait, I was gonna say, I remember years ago it was Christmas and you know we were opening up Christmas presents and everything like that and dad got me a heap of tools and I'm like, oh wow mine's spiritless! Aaron Ng (05:12) you wow. Farah Drake (05:14) It was just, yeah, I'll, yeah, it's just my jam, I suppose. Aaron Ng (05:17) Just, it's just you think, I love it, I love it. This is what we need more of in the industry, know, just that raw passion for loving to build and creating things. So there's a couple of questions I want to ask you. Are you pretty creative? I think so. Yeah, I can, can kind of see that. I can see it in your designs. I can see it in the way you've gone to market. And I can see that with the way you've, you know, I'm a marketer. Please don't hate me for it. But I'm a marketer by trade. And I can see, I can see by the way, you know, you go to market the way you think about things, the granny flats, smaller dwellings, and you have to even be creative to work in those spaces. Don't you? Farah Drake (05:47) Yeah. Well, you do. you my dad started, he basically went into the granny flat side of things and he, he dropped a lot of plants, right? He's, my dad's, he's, he's an engineer originally and he is so smart and he has that design flair. There's, there's design in my family. There's artistic ability in my family. My sister is amazing at drawing. I've got none of that ability. I cannot draw to save myself. Aaron Ng (06:11) Go ahead. Farah Drake (06:17) You know, and my grandmother was a great artist. So my sister's got that. I look at my artistic ability doesn't come in the form of drawing, but just looking at how spaces work. And so over time, those general plans have adjusted to make things work to, you know, we've got these new regulations that are in play called livable housing. So we've had to redesign a lot of our plans to suit. I just, you know, when somebody says they want something, I'm like, yeah, I could do that. Aaron Ng (06:26) Yeah, I can feel that. Farah Drake (06:44) But what if we did it like this? And so I have that ability to visualize how things can be. It's something that I think a lot of people really struggle with. They can't just see it on the plan. They need to able to walk through something. So yeah. Aaron Ng (06:46) Yeah Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm one of those. I'm one of those. Just being honest with the audience, I can't do what you do. And I am fascinated with what you do because I have, I've looked at your designs and, just as you're talking, pennies just always drop as I have really cool guests like you on and I'm like, wait a minute. Farah Drake (06:58) Okay. No, that's fine. Aaron Ng (07:11) And sometimes I think I'm a psychologist when I sit on this couch as well, Farah, so apologies for that. And I try and break people down and I'm like, okay, this is why you're a good builder. There's some personal traits about you that make you pretty cool and special amongst, you know, the industry. So I think that's one of them. I did have another question, you know, you've been in the industry 30 years or plus, and sorry to, you know, bring it to this, not this, but... Farah Drake (07:15) absolutely. Yes. Aaron Ng (07:34) What was it like for a woman in construction 30 years ago compared to today? I always love to hear that perspective. And you had your family there and I'm sure your dad would have protected you with, you know, as I would my daughter or did you need to? Sorry, I'm putting words in your mouth. You answer. Farah Drake (07:49) No, no, no, no, no. Interesting you say that. My dad was like, he was the tough dad. And I appreciate that. He didn't shield me from anything. He was like, well, you're more than capable of dealing with it. You can deal with it, you know, which that's the best thing was for me anyway. As far as 30 years ago. Well, and I started in an administrative role, so I wasn't the girl on site initially. Aaron Ng (08:04) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Farah Drake (08:12) Um, but I was certainly, uh, and when you think about 30 years ago, the type of people we're building for the, um, traditional granny flats, the, the older generation, um, they did look at me as a little girl in the office who didn't know a single thing. And certain comments that I'd get was like, Oh, maybe we should go speak to the man of the business. Things like that is really derogatory, really, you know, putting down. you just had to be like, okay. Aaron Ng (08:12) Hmm? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Farah Drake (08:39) Well, that's what's going to be your life. And you just try and move through it. Yes, it annoys you, but you just have to sort of push through it. I had, I remember being at Bunnings and I was looking, trying to get some bolts. I was looking for something. And this guy comes up to me and he goes, you look about as comfortable here as I do in a kitchen store. And I'm like, mate, it's so inappropriate. But that was the, that was just how people saw things. Aaron Ng (08:51) Mm. or I would have slept that dude Farah Drake (09:04) Over time, that has changed and you could not get away with saying something like that to a woman in Bunnings these days or any hardware store realistically. Yeah. And so as over time, I mean, when I started getting on site, the boys started seeing me a bit differently. I wasn't just, you know, the girl who signed their checks because it was checks back then. wasn't, you know, So you gain respect, but it takes it. It's taken time. Aaron Ng (09:04) Yeah. Nah. Yeah. Mm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Farah Drake (09:32) And then when I started taking on more responsibility and running jobs, and then sort of not calling dad all the time, that took time. So you have to, as a female, I've had to work harder to earn that respect. And it was all about also having the right people. If they weren't going to be, they looked at you, looked like a female and what would you know, you're in the building industry, then they're not really the right people for us. So. Aaron Ng (09:45) Mmm. Yeah. Absolutely. Mmm. No. Farah Drake (09:58) I do feel Aaron Ng (09:58) No. Farah Drake (09:59) lucky though, had, majority of the time we had really good people and some just people just needed to be told. Aaron Ng (10:04) Yeah, yeah, no, it's again, I think, you know, for me, what that says about you is resilience, you know, to no matter, I think you, you seem like and I'm not trying to judge you here, but you play it down a little bit, probably harder than what you just said. But for you to, you know, sticking it for 30 years and just to keep going and going like the mental drain, like I know, like I'm a man. I had a marketing agency and I remember we had some really bad clients. I know this is kind of me trying to do an analogy, right? And we, I could only stand them for a year, but every time they would question my integrity, they would question the way I did things and I couldn't handle it. Farah Drake (10:35) Yeah. Aaron Ng (10:43) And that was one client imagining like, I'm not saying this was the position of it, but this is what I want our audience and community to understand as well. And, and, and, know, also a bit of praise for you, Farrah, like imagine that over a 30 year period and the whole industry is that you, not the whole industry, but it feels like it because anywhere you go, you go to Bunnings, you go to site. Can you do the job? You don't have that respect. It's cool. Yeah. Farah Drake (11:04) Well, yeah, it was always like that. Yeah, it's improved. It has improved. You know, mean, just even as simple as picking stuff up from a very male oriented supplier years and years ago, I actually, of course, I had just the tiny little bubble back laser then and I looked really girly walking in and they treated me so terribly. And I said to Dad, went back there, I said, I'm never going in that place ever again. Aaron Ng (11:12) Nothing. Yeah. Yeah. Farah Drake (11:33) And he's like, oh, okay. He actually called them and said, Hey, you've got to be aware that this is people. Other people are going to come to pick stuff up. You've got to have a bit of a customer service, you know? So a couple of years down the track, I go back in there and it's a totally different ball game. They've lifted their game, all sorts of things, but it really looked a very bad taste in my mouth for a while. Aaron Ng (11:33) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's, no, thank you for sharing that with us. far. would always, I guess what I allude to on this podcast, as you know, by the end question, everyone, you know, we've done 270 episodes or something. Now I always ask what makes a good builder, as you know, and we're to get that. Get there with you, of course, but in my head. Farah Drake (12:02) Yep. Yep. Yes. Aaron Ng (12:06) I was speaking yesterday to a very good builder and I said, personal traits make a good builder. is, there's some, you know, beside the craftsmanship and all that sort of thing, there's some personal traits that I think you've either got to develop or you have in you. And I think you show a lot of them and resilience being one, you know, and I think that makes a good builder. That is certainly because you have, it's the most, hardest industry to navigate, let alone navigate shit that you shouldn't have to, which is now gone, which is super cool. Yeah. Farah Drake (12:23) Yeah. It's challenging. It's a challenging industry. Any industry has its challenges. think the building industry is certainly very challenging. Aaron Ng (12:34) Yeah, I'll go. Yeah, well, we talked before and you know, I tried to do it for three years. You've done it for 30. So let's move on. We'll probably get into that later on. I'm happy to tell my story. Anyway. All right. Well, you built, you built, let's get on to the good stuff and congratulations on everything you've achieved in these 30 years. Now you've built a business around a really specific niche, which is really cool. Granny flats, small dwellings and multi-generational living. that's you're in Melbourne. So that's big down there. I remember when I was at GJ's we started to Farah Drake (12:51) I'm gonna it like. Thank you. Yes. Aaron Ng (13:08) a look at that a few years ago but it's not the most glamorous sort of part of the industry but it's definitely the demand is there and actually is getting more glamorous if you actually ask me. What drew you to the space and what sort of why did you realize or sort of shape the business in that way? Farah, you you're one of the few too. Farah Drake (13:25) So it was probably dad started this heat, the second arm of the business where he originally was, was building big Australian style homes with his brother. And then they sort of split and he could say. An opportunity years and years ago. And so I came into it at that point and we were still building out big homes, but we were finding that we weren't, couldn't compete with those big builders. Cause we used to be that the people who had more disposable income. the second home buyers and then the big builders were purely for the first time buyers years ago. And then suddenly they'll get into that second home market. So then we sort of really honed in on, right, this is probably where we're sitting. It's that niche, but there weren't many builders in that marketing area, that market area. And then when I sort of got more further attention, I just suddenly realized it's, because we were building for what? The traditional granny flat. Aaron Ng (14:06) Mm. Farah Drake (14:14) you know, for our elderly parents that we're all known as, you know, and I loved sitting down and you sometimes, know, a couple of hours would go by and you're sitting down and you're talking to your potential clients and you having the privilege of listening to their life story. And from there you sort of go, okay, this is something really special. And we, so we... Aaron Ng (14:17) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Farah Drake (14:35) We focus in on that and it's not about being the biggest and the best builder. It's about really listening to our clients and their life story. It's that proof leech that we get. It's pretty special. And so that's where we've sort of focused the business. Aaron Ng (14:48) I like, yeah. And the other thing I love about it is I think the meaning of a home is family. And you kind of bringing family together. We're actually, I lived for a long time, actually, our mother-in-law, Renee's mother, who you've probably had a few conversations with, she lived with us for about seven years. I miss her every day. She came back for my daughter's birthday over the weekend and she just left on Monday and I want her back. And it's like, we want to build a granny flat. Yeah, we want to build a granny flat. We are going to build a granny flat. So we will talk later because I think you're coming up here and I've got a little land. let's chat. yeah, we'll get into it. We'll get into that later. But you know, Willow Grove are coming up here, everybody. This is cool. But I do, we want to build a granny flat for her and we want to do it the next six months because we think it's important for kids to be with their grandparents. Farah Drake (15:15) That's why I Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is. Aaron Ng (15:37) You know, as well, you got that extended family and just family nowadays. And the other thing too is if we're at this whole housing accord, I don't want to bring it to that because I talk about it too much and I'm over it. But like if we're talking about this housing accord, trying to get people into homes, this is a great way to help them get into homes. know, people should consider Granny Flats, dual living, dual lock, multi-generational, all the stuff that you do. Farah Drake (15:52) It is. Aaron Ng (15:58) That's why I said in the beginning, I think it's a bit of the future of building to be honest. And you should build with a good builder. That'll give you a good quality home that'll last. So, know, Willow Grove, go for it. Yeah, it's cool. You know, it's cool, eh? It's really cool. It's really cool what you do. Farah Drake (16:04) Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. think. Yeah. thank you. It's very kind of you to say so. But I think the whole, you know, it's coming so hard to achieve the great Australian dream, you know, the own your own home and all that sort of thing. just, you know, kids can actually have their own home, but be in the backyard. Or we put mum and dad in the backyard and the kids get the main home. So we see that a lot. We've seen that for a long time. You know, with a parents will Aaron Ng (16:18) Man. Yeah. Yes. Farah Drake (16:40) build a brand new granny flat, and then the kids go into the main home. And we're going to see more and more of that because it's the great Australian dream is slowly becoming unattainable. Aaron Ng (16:42) Yeah. Yep. No. absolutely. We I'll send you the report. We just did a report on the great Australian dream actually far that we dropped yesterday. I think everyone thought it was a joke because it was April Fool's Day, April 1, but it was legit research. did it didn't go so well. I'll send it over to you, but we talk about the great Australian dream and the shrinking Australian block and all this sort of thing. And it's like. Farah Drake (17:00) Of course. Yeah, okay, I'd love to say that. yeah. Aaron Ng (17:12) There's a solution to it. in that within this report, there's a lot of chatter, especially around your way and everywhere actually, around multi-generational living, granny flats and things like that. So I think, you know, that's why, you know. As I said, we called the good builder, what makes a good builder, forward thinking people, resilient people, people like you that are thinking for the future of Australian building. This is really cool. Like it's so cool to get to know you and know what you're doing. And then also I can see that passion in you. You love building for your clients because of that story and that connectivity and bringing families together. Like the most important thing in the world. I wouldn't care if I had a billion dollar home compared to a $500,000 home with a granny flat with my mother-in-law there and my mom. That's that's fun when you think about it. Farah Drake (17:54) Yeah, that's lovely. don't think a lot of all families think like that, but that's really sweet. Aaron Ng (18:00) Yeah, well, I hope they do. Well, you know, I don't do it. I think it's cool. Well, um, yeah, no, thanks for the granny flat. I'm a of an emotional guy. But anyway, the granny flat market has changed, you know, pretty significant over the past few years as well. And there's been a bit of Farah Drake (18:04) I think it's beautiful. Yep, it has. Aaron Ng (18:17) loosening up of laws and how you do things and lots of families as we said they're rethinking and we see even politicians as I said talking about this whole you know granny flat multi-generational living. What have you sort of seen change significantly over the past few years in that sort of side of the industry? Farah. Farah Drake (18:19) Yes. So up until it was December, 2023, when we wanted to put, so putting something in your backyard, there was essentially three options. Something that was fully self-contained that is. So it was either a dependent persons unit, which is the traditional granny flat. So there was a lot of rules around that. It was quite strict. Not everybody could occupy it. You had to be dependent on the people in the main home. So elderly parents, dependent children, Aaron Ng (18:49) Yeah. Farah Drake (18:59) somebody with some form of dependency. It had to be fully relocatable and when it was no longer occupied, it should be removed. So it couldn't be kept on site to rent out as a form of income or anything like that. You couldn't get that return on investment. was purely for, it used to be called a dependent relative unit. Then they changed it to dependent persons unit. So that's all it was for. So, and if you wanted something to go in the backyard that Aaron Ng (19:16) ⁓ wow. ⁓ Farah Drake (19:23) may have been to house mum or dad initially, but then you wanted to rent it out down the track, that was, you had to go down the path of a traditional second dwelling permit or next step was the subdivision. So, and that kind of a whole raft of requirements besides having a really long time in planning, was car parking, all sorts of stuff, because it was a separate occupancy. So, and super expensive and not always available to do, because if you think about, some of it, obviously, Aaron Ng (19:29) Mm. Yeah. I think. wow. ⁓ yeah, yeah. Farah Drake (19:50) As you said before, lots are getting smaller, but a traditional, you know, maybe home, residential property, zero lot on one side. And then on the other side is maybe a one meter walkway down to the back. You couldn't do car parking or anything like that. There wasn't an allowance to do that. So on December, 2023, the Victorian government opened it up and basically said, well, they were originally going to rip DPUs out of the planning scheme. Aaron Ng (19:52) Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Farah Drake (20:17) that's still in a transitional phase at the moment. And small second dwellings came in, which basically meant you could put something in your backyard. It didn't have to comply with car parking or anything like that. You could, it's almost like doing it as a right and anybody could occupy it. But the kicker is no bigger than 60 square meters. And that included all roofed areas. and roofed areas includes verandas as well and stuff like that. So we had to pivot a little bit. Aaron Ng (20:18) Yeah. Yeah. wow! Farah Drake (20:42) some new designs and just sort of adjust how we're doing things. But so now people can have a small second dwelling in their backyard. They can have a dependent persons unit if it's traditional for the traditional granny flat, or they can go down the traditional second dwelling or subdivision stage. it's opened the market up. It's made a lot easier to put something in your backyard that you can house mum or dad, kids, and then down the track, get a return on investment. So it's been good in that sense. I will say Aaron Ng (21:03) Cool. Yeah. Yeah. Farah Drake (21:08) Our business still lies heavily in the dependent persons unit market because we are building for those, the older generation, the dependent people. And that's sort of where our marketing is targeted, I suppose. Cause that is, as I said, that's where we have that great connection. We do build for some investors. Most of the time if they are investors, they are for their mum or dad and investors secondary, secondary investors basically. Aaron Ng (21:21) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah, that's really interesting. Because, you know, I'm sure there's opportunity in the investment space for this type of thing. Farah, do you so is your sorry to dig a little bit deeper, but is your avoidance of that because you want to build a good quality product and you actually care? Sorry, I shouldn't say that. Farah Drake (21:45) There is. I know exactly what you're ⁓ yeah. When it comes to investors, they are very price oriented. And we have always said we're not the cheapest in the market. We never will be. ⁓ And I'm not going to build a substandard product just to get sales through the door. It doesn't work for us. So investors aren't necessarily the people that we build for. It's not to say we don't want to. It's just that Aaron Ng (21:58) You know where I'm going with it? ⁓ god. Yeah. Yes, thank you. No, which is good. Yep. Yeah. Thank you. Farah Drake (22:23) If they're just wanting to get purely that instant return on investment, we're not necessarily the people that they go with, which is okay. That doesn't bother me. There's a market for everybody. So. Aaron Ng (22:27) Hmm Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. was only smiling because I think he said it a lot better than I did. I'm not going to cut that bit. just, I couldn't explain myself. I'm like, Oh, that's why you, okay. Cool. I'm getting to, yeah. You know, and that's the whole thing. Like as, we get to know you through it, can, I can pick up all these things along the way. It's very cool. know why, um, we've got you on the good builder because you are. Farah Drake (22:43) No, no, I knew where you were going. Aaron Ng (23:50) you know, and you talked about, so you're talking about, you know, building for these, these families, it's, it's, it's emotional, there's connectivity or, know, all of that sort of thing. And it's a, it's a very, I think it feels like a very different client experience to that normal volume builder or investment builder as we just spoke about. how do you sort of navigate that emotional side of the job and what does a good builder need to understand in, you know, process like that and dealing with those sorts of clients? Farah Drake (24:16) Yeah, look, the emotion is real at times. It is very real and there's nothing more satisfying than when we go to hand over a home and there's hugs all around. And we see that majority of the time. We get lots of hugs, thank you. You've changed my life, all that sort of stuff. You've helped bring my family together. You know, I remember I still see this client, she lives just down the road from our offices and she came in one day with a friend and She looks around for a bit and she sits down in the office and she goes, oh, I've got to get this for my dad. Three hours later, she left. She was just, she told me all about dad's story. Dad was ill and we put need in the backyard and it was just, she's just like, oh, I'm not going anywhere else. You've, we've connected and you know, Joe comes in now. It's just to catch up and she's like, I'll bring you, I'll bring you a coffee. She goes, what do you want? And you know, and we'll, we'll sit down and we'll have a chat. Or she just calls up and it's always a hug and a kiss, know. So dealing with emotion, it's just, you just do. It warms your heart. You don't let it affect you as such, it warms your heart. And it's so special. so, I keep saying it's a privilege when people involve you in their lives and tell you about their life and that life story, there's nothing quite like it. Aaron Ng (25:15) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that is true. Mmm. Farah Drake (25:34) So yeah, so managing the emotion, I think we've got a really great team that actually, it's being empathetic and being there on the journey with them. So that's really special. I missed the other part of the question. What was the other part? Sorry. Aaron Ng (25:41) Yeah. I'm so installed with what you were saying. think I've forgotten too, because as you were talking, I'm like, you you're talking about all this stuff. I'll get into that second part. I'm sorry about this Farah, but you're fascinating. And I'm listening to you and I'm just like, I was in a trance just listening to you because I'm like, I see, you know, we'll probably talk about it a bit later, but women in construction, you're better, you're more emotionally intelligent than the men. Farah Drake (25:56) Yeah. Aaron Ng (26:10) You you definitely are like just I think you are and I think just women are and they they form I think they form better relationships. I think there's a whole lot of great benefits of having women in business. And if you ask me, building a home or anything is like a marriage, you know, you nearly married to someone because you're building it for him for a year. Farah Drake (26:26) who you are and it's a massive investment emotionally. Aaron Ng (26:28) And then you can see, and then you're talking about getting hugs and, the privilege of building. We've never had anyone on the podcast talk about the privilege of building. And I think that's a fascinating kind of, yeah, I think it's a fascinating kind of statement. Farah. Like you look at it like it's a different way to look at it. sorry. It's a very different way to look at building like, and, and, you're, you're grateful every day. Farah Drake (26:32) Good. Sorry. Yeah, ⁓ it is. Sorry, go on. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah, look, I am because we have, and don't get me wrong, everybody gets the challenging clients. We're not without that drama. But majority of clients, are, I say we are privileged to be able to bill for them, but also be involved with their life and hear their story. There's nothing quite like it. It's not just, it's not about getting the sale in. Aaron Ng (26:58) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nah, nah. Farah Drake (27:14) Yeah, it's not about making a quick buck. It's about being on the journey. And for some people, the other thing I meant to mention is for some people that we build for, this is their final home. It's their final stage in life. And so being part of that, you know, I mentioned Joe before her dad passed away about a year ago. I went to his funeral. So it's being, it is, like I said, it's a privilege. It's been part of their lives. It's so much more than just Aaron Ng (27:25) Yeah, ⁓ well. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah Farah Drake (27:40) We don't build houses, we build homes. And it's so much more than just the bricks and mortar, so to speak. Aaron Ng (27:43) Yeah. Wow. That's what I'm getting out of it. And I think that's why I got emotional talking about moving my mother-in-law back in and all that far. Like this is a really cool conversation. This is a very interesting, you're a very interesting person and the way you build and the way you're building and why you build the why behind it all. I am finding fascinating. And I think you're answering along the way. This is one of the first podcasts where I'm like, wait a minute, along the way we're discovering what makes a good builder. Farah Drake (27:51) Yeah. Yeah. Aaron Ng (28:13) And hope, you know, end questions probably just going to tie it out, but you're giving the clues the whole way through. It's super cool. Love it. you know, and the other thing too, you know, you're a, you're a business director and you're a licensed builder, you're registered builder. How do you sort of balance that? And what, what sort of, have you learned? What's the hardest part? Is it the business side of things, or is it the sort of the building construction side of things? This is something that we think. Farah Drake (28:18) Okay. Aaron Ng (28:38) at the good builder, what makes a good builder. always hear the operational side of stuff's really hard, but you're great at your craftsmanship. What is it for you that you find difficult? Farah Drake (28:46) And don't forget also, let's put in the mix. I'm also a mom. that's Andy. And my little boy, he is not without his challenges. So you feel sometimes at times you get pulled in all directions and it's just a little piece of you everywhere. So that's challenging. Look, there are some amazing trades people out there. Aaron Ng (28:56) yeah, well, well. Yeah. Farah Drake (29:10) but, and they're great at their craft, but they can't run a business. And quite frankly, they don't want to, you know, so, It's really hard, like I love being on site and I don't get to do it as much these days because you know for whatever reason I've got to be in the office or whatever but it's really hard being a director. You can be on site, you can be in the mix of it and everything like that but then you've got to extract yourself from the everyday workings of the business so that you can work, be the overarching working on the business rather than in the business and that is one of the toughest things to do. Aaron Ng (29:34) Yeah. Farah Drake (29:44) I've got, you know, I had a, I had a coach and it helps me just sort of keep on track with certain things. And he, texts me or email me the other week saying, how are you going with those few things? I'm thinking, I've never touched it because I've been working right in the thick of the business, you know, just getting things done and belting that out. Cause we're still in that sort of trying to grow. So you're doing that and then you, we've got these new regulations come in. What do we have to do here? So trying to be over all of that training, making sure the team is all good. Aaron Ng (29:44) Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Farah Drake (30:12) And you say sometimes you feel like a psychologist on this. I am always a psychologist with my team. ⁓ my god. So I'll tell you this little one. This was so funny. When I had my son, he's eight this year, ⁓ I went on maternity leave for what, I don't know. I went back to work about 10 weeks later, ⁓ if that. But I was still taking phone calls and everything like that. And so dad had to step in again and help out. And he said, Aaron Ng (30:18) Yeah. In the business. Oh, I love it. This hasn't been talked about before. Yeah, go. Yeah. Yeah. Farah Drake (30:41) When are you coming back to work? I can't deal with everybody calling me. but yeah, bunch of children, I have to be a psychologist for them. I'm like, that's what you've got to do. So, you you sort of you step here, you step there, and you just constantly, yeah, you're constantly like that, going in and out of operations and directors and stuff. So it's challenging. You got to be fluid. Aaron Ng (30:51) Wow. Yeah. That is a really cool, yeah, it's such a cool perspective, Farah, like you, know, talking about pulling yourself out of the business and working on the business. You know, that is something, again, we've talked about a little bit on the podcast, but we've never actually like had a builder talk about the struggle of doing it because you seem so passionate about actually onsite doing it, but you know that the business has got to run and then the... I don't think anyone said they're a psychologist for their trades and I think that's super important. It's good. You got to listen to people. got to, got to, yeah, you know what mean? We can cut that if we need to, but you know, but I know they don't like that, but it's like, you've got to, you've got to be there. You've got to know that they've got to know that they're being heard. They're part of the team. They know what's going on, you know, and they're, they emotionally invested in your builds as well. So, um, it's a Farah Drake (31:33) Trust me though, we are. Yep. Yep. Yeah. And that's the thing. We're a small team. ⁓ And we all support one another. So, okay, so not my job, not my problem. We all support one another. And if somebody's having a crap day, I want to know why and what I can do to help them. That is so important. The majority of our guys, so Mark, he's worked with me. He started out working as, I guess, an apprentice with our former chippy, a framer. Aaron Ng (31:54) Mm. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Farah Drake (32:17) And whatever happened and Mark came on with us as a subbie, know, framing all sorts of things and he now works full time with us. So he's been in our business for more than 20 years. And he's my go-to, you know, he helps support me on site when I can't be there. And we are just, we are so close, you know, we talk, you know, it's a really great relationship and I value his time. I value him helping everything, value our relationship. And he's the same as well. And he's not going anywhere. He's part of the furniture. And so he's been with me for that long. had my, unfortunately we have this thing called retirement and occasionally people retire, which is so, I mean, really so frustrating. And so Ellen, my former electrician, he'd been with us since the nineties. Aaron Ng (32:46) Yeah. So. Why? Why? Come on! Keep going! Farah Drake (33:07) And then Paul, who was a Tyler and then did waterproofing and everything, he knew me when I was a little girl. He used to work with dad and uncle Barry in the eighties. We hold onto our guys because it's all about our relationships, not just relationships with our clients, it's our relationships with the boys who work for us. Our team, it's people want to work with us and they stay and they, you know, they want to be part of a team. They want to be something, part of something bigger than. just what they do. yeah, sorry, that's just my phone going off. Aaron Ng (33:36) No, that's all right. That's well, you know what, you know what that shows? It shows that Willow Grove is wanted. There's a sale. Everyone wants Willow Grove. Let's go. No, it's cool. That is so cool. That shows exceptional leadership, Farah. Like, you know, we talk about, we do talk a lot about, especially on our podcast too, I won't lie. We talk a lot about what makes a good builder with the relationship to the client and in their eyes, what makes a good builder and how you become a good builder in their eyes. Farah Drake (33:42) Yeah exactly, exactly. That's right. Aaron Ng (34:03) how you become a good builder and your trades are, so your customers too. That is what makes you a good builder. Cause when you've got good trades and you can rely on them and you get your job done, it's, yeah, was very, yeah, you think, not creative, you think very broadly, you're quite business minded as well, which is very cool. You've got that perfect mix of the love of construction. This is what, and then the business acumen. Farah Drake (34:06) Yep. Yep. Let's. Thank you. Aaron Ng (34:25) You know, and my problem was that when I, when I tried to become a builder is that I'm a corporate buyer. So I came with corporate ideas and, know, worked in corporate construction and whatever and things like that. And I didn't have the craftsmanship to understand what's going on on the site. So I can't even screw a shelf in a wall and find another. That's kind of like my thing. I'm more of a nerd than a builder. You know what I mean? So I struggled. I was involved in building companies, but you know, to have that. perfect blend makes a good builder. And that's what you got. Pretty cool. It's really cool to understand and see. Farah Drake (34:58) Thank you. I don't see it like that, but thank you. It's nice to sort of have that pointed out, I suppose. Aaron Ng (35:02) I think I've done 270 podcasts. We've talked to over a thousand builders now over the past 18 months Farah. And this is, I'm starting to yeah, piece together, you know, the whole thing, my little quest, think always, whatever everyone's quest. Look, ask. It's my world adventure. Yeah. The other thing that I think is very cool about you is you're very active within the HIA as well. Farah Drake (35:17) Yeah, your quest. like it. I like it. it. It's really cool. Yeah. Yes, I'm a women in building ambassador. So we do. ⁓ look, I think we could do more. I really do. I think we could do more. We want to get, I've been pushing them to do mentoring for women in building and they're trying to get it out of the ground. But I was actually going to send off an email to them saying we need to do start doing some stuff. We do a lunch every twice a year and we get Aaron Ng (35:31) Wow, so what does that entail? What does that entail, sorry Farah? Farah Drake (35:52) speakers in and it's just a really lovely gathering of women and when I say gathering, 400 deep size, it's so many and I love it because blokes come too, some of the blokes come as well and it's really lovely, I can see just how many people are in this industry and we want to change things. So yeah, and we just, need to do more. We always need to do more. So I'm sort of involved in that a fair bit and I also do from a different point of view. Aaron Ng (35:59) A bit of a guy, Yeah! Yeah. Yeah, cool. Farah Drake (36:17) I'm part of the HAA awards as well. So I'm one of the judges for that site, which I love. Yeah, I love doing it. I've been doing it for the last couple of years. Yeah, and it's awesome. Yeah, so we get to go around, you're given a few categories and you get to judge a whole variety of homes. Some of the homes that we see, you just go, this is amazing. I would live in this place. Aaron Ng (36:23) really? I did not know that. Okay, that is cool. Wow. Yeah. Farah Drake (36:42) Wow, look at that. And yeah, it's just phenomenal what people can do. Aaron Ng (36:47) Yeah. well, that is that is amazing. And I think I said this to you off air. But if you ever want to do something for women in construction, the good builders open so I would love to do more stuff with you. Yeah, we would. We love the HIA. We've got great relationships with the HIA. So I reckon HIA, I reckon Farah, I reckon the good builder, you know, we get together and let's put something on for the industry. Farah Drake (36:56) no, just go on. Keep going, keep going. Absolutely. Aaron Ng (37:09) HIA, if you need some help, I'll make it happen because I'm very passionate about this and this lady's an absolute weapon. So we need to get her out there and start talking about these things and get more female directors, get more female builders, successful companies that are around for 30 years. yeah. yeah. Yeah. I know one up here that could just rock the world if they wanted to be a builder. I keep telling her like just be a builder. Show them, show them. Anyway, one day. ⁓ Farah Drake (37:13) you Yeah, absolutely. We've got some really amazing pie houses in the industry and we need to sort of get from there more. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Aaron Ng (37:37) The other thing is you've got some big plans for Willow Grove as well, Byron. So I briefly, if anyone, well a lot of people will be listening, but you would have heard me say, hey Farrah, know, might be building a granny flat in six months time when you're up here, come do it. I think Queensland is part of the expansion. What else is, yeah, what's happening? Farah Drake (37:54) It is part of it. Yeah, so look, we're always been wanting to grow. you know, for a while there, we're just sort of just petering along, I think with COVID and everything, just sort of just cruised along. And then you sort of get into that growth phase, we're trying to push, you know, we've got a great team behind us now, who will want to want to achieve and push as well. And the opportunity presented itself. Somebody connected me with this amazing guy up in Queensland, Jason and He's, we're aligned, basically, how we feel about building, providing that really good quality product, listening to people's story, providing that connection. He's been in the industry for years. so, yeah, he's going to be taking on our work up there in sort of that South East Queensland corridor. So he's based in Brisbane. So yeah, he's, it's going to be great. It's been sort of like about a year in the making, and we're just starting to piece it. Aaron Ng (38:24) Is that cool? yes. Yeah. Farah Drake (38:46) pull it together. yeah, great. We just want he calls me his work wife. So I love that. It's gorgeous. And put it. Yeah. So yeah. Aaron Ng (38:49) Well, ⁓ so cool. Well, whenever you're up here, sorry, I was gonna say, but whenever you're up here, Flora, please, you know, I'll come and do some video, we'll get the crew down, do some video on your project and all that sort of thing. And I was, yeah, if you're building up the Sunny Coast, let me know. Farah Drake (39:05) Absolutely. Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. So yeah, that's that will be coming together. It's been a bit of a slow process, but it is is coming together. So we're very excited. And if that works, then we're going to look at, know, it's not about sort of franchise, that sort of getting that connection, having a build of that aligns with who we are, our morals, our comforts, basically, and getting on board for maybe South Australia and New South Wales. That's where we want to be. So yeah. Aaron Ng (39:10) Yeah? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you know what, think I'm all for those sorts of ideas and partnerships and things like that. Far I think if you've got a really good builder with a good business head like I used to work for franchise builders. I know a lot about franchise building not to sound like a bit of a wanker on this podcast. Sorry about the language, but I know a lot about franchise building and and and some people go to me like we I know a lot of custom small custom builders and I'm good mates with them and they're like Man, you're like corporate man. Why you always talk about franchise building and you know, why are you for it and stuff like that? You know, it's greed, it's that this and I'm like, no, it isn't actually. It's actually, our franchise builders that work for GJs. I've got one that used to have a, a franchise in Aubrey that's building a five story home in Coulomb beach up here. They do very well because we turn them into businessmen and women. Like, I think it's a really cool thing. So if you can get a system. like yours or partnered with someone that knows process and has a head on them like you, a business and build ahead and know, and partner with them, you'll learn a lot. And I think it sets you up for success rather than, you know, failure or something to be kind of like not looked at. think it's something very much we looked at. And as a matter of fact, and sorry that I'm babbling on, I've never seen the prevalence of business coaches or builders coaches so much. And in concept, it's the same thing. They're trying to teach these builders how to be builders, but some of them haven't necessarily ever been builders. So I would partner with a builder that's great like you, you know what I mean? And go, Hey, you know, I'm Willow Grove. You know, if, if, if I knew you three years ago, when I was trying to get aggressive in the building space and do Avondale homes up here, I would have gone off stuff Avondale. I'll go with Willow. Hey, Farro, can I do it up here? You know, like Farah Drake (40:54) Yeah. We've done great things. We've done great things. Aaron Ng (41:13) yeah, you know what I mean? Like I think it's a, I love what you're doing Farah. I think it's very smart. And I think that it sets people up for success and the brand for success. well done. I can't wait to see you up here. Yeah. Cool. Cool. I've got a couple more questions for you. You've been doing it for 30 plus years now. What is, yeah. Okay. Sorry, Farah. If there's, there's, Farah Drake (41:24) Thank you very much. Almost 30 years, yes. Aaron Ng (41:36) There's been a lot of change, including now. We don't want to talk about the IRM while I'm over it. But all the changes going on, what do you think is something that's been constant? Farah Drake (41:44) Um, confusion with regulations? I shouldn't say that. Aaron Ng (41:47) I love it. No, no, I do. Thank you. They're pausing. You know, they're pausing those entities. Yeah. sorry. You go, Kefka Farah. Farah Drake (41:50) Yeah, something, well, something is... Pardon? The constant, look, yeah, I'm going, it's the first thing that came to my head. It's the confusion with regulations. There is ambiguity with regulations and it's hard for people to understand it, all honesty. The building industry, it's always there, it's always growing. We need the building industry to survive. It's a massive part of the Australian landscape, business landscape. Aaron Ng (42:05) I Farah Drake (42:14) So that's always going to be a constant. But yeah, the regulation landscape, that space, it's very challenging. And it's very challenging for those who don't have that time to, I guess, bone up on all that stuff. You know, it's hard to navigate it with constant changes. yeah, probably not what you want to hear. Aaron Ng (42:31) Yeah, no. No, no, no. I love that you are brave enough and you say what's on your mind. You got to. Like, I totally agree. We had a modular builder on here who's been building modular homes for, or doing in a modular space for 50 years. He's like, the NCC doesn't even work for us, but we've got to adhere to it. It's like, what the hell? Like. I'm like, and then I put up a thing on LinkedIn fire. And I said, Oh, should the NCC be split in two? was quite controversial. I was like one for modular and prefab and granny flat and stuff like that. And then one for traditional stick build. And it needs to be like, do we need to truth or do we have a single truth? And there was this massive argument on there, but lots of people were kind of going, well, it doesn't work for us. So let's do another one. Farah Drake (43:17) Yeah, yeah. And they've gone and just changed it. in the last few years they changed even just the layout of the NCC. And yeah, like I used to have, you know, my lever arch file and everything was labeled. And so I could find things really easily. And I knew it back to front. Now, when they changed it, we actually, had to go to classes on how to actually navigate the new NCC. Aaron Ng (43:24) Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Yeah. Farah Drake (43:38) If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And I'm lucky that it's online and I can just do searching because I haven't got my leverage file that I can just flip to. I wouldn't even know how to as far as mapping it out now. So even just as something as simple as that, why was it necessary to change it? And they'll give you all sorts of reasons. There's no doubt about that. But at end of the day, it really wasn't necessary. It was just somebody justifying existence. Aaron Ng (43:40) Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Mm. Bye. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Nah, good on you. Love it. Great answer. And, if you'd like far, I've actually created a AI LLM thing. I'm not, I am a nerd, as you can tell. And I've put the whole NCC in there so you can chat to it and ask questions and it'll bring it all out for you. So you don't have to read the thing. So, I'll be releasing that soon for everybody because everyone seems to have that same sort of constant chat challenge. I can't help the module. Farah Drake (44:16) there you go. Yep. Great. Listen, isn't that funny? You've got that chatter, you're hearing that, ⁓ that it's hard to now navigate. I remember sitting in, was down at NCE, the big exhibition centre there, the building commission's putting on this thing about navigating it. And I'm looking, I'm just about falling asleep. I was like, this is ridiculous. Why have you done it? Aaron Ng (44:29) Yeah. ⁓ yeah. Yeah. What a waste of time for you. What a waste of time for you. You you got better things to do like take over Queensland. Anyway, would you will. I love that answer. Now, a couple more questions for a builder that's thinking about building granny flats or small dwellings and putting it in their offering. We probably shouldn't be saying this because I don't want to give any of your IP, but what... Farah Drake (44:50) Pretty much, Yep. That's right. Yeah, that's right. Aaron Ng (45:11) what do they actually need to know before going down the path and what catches people out that are looking to do this. Farah Drake (45:17) From my perspective, forget the whole relationship side of things. That's sort of obviously what we do. And not everybody's going to do the same thing. And they might look at investor side of things, whereas the relationship is not as important. So I think you've got to drill down on what your end goal is, for one. But they've really got to get clear on the regulations. Aaron Ng (45:38) Yeah, it'll trip you up. Farah Drake (45:39) If you're looking at in this area around that whole small second dwelling space, you've got to get really clear on that. I get up and I talk about small second dwellings and the requirements behind it. I was at Tiny Homes Expo on the weekend and I actually got up and spoke about that and people were like, you've to do all that sort of stuff. So if you can actually have that knowledge, it puts people's minds at ease. Aaron Ng (45:56) away. wow. Yeah. that's brilliant. Something else sprung to my mind actually, fire. And I hope you don't mind me talking about it. You know, you're a fully licensed registered builder, really, you know, obviously very good builder. What I'm seeing up here in Queensland is a whole heap of, I'm going to call them hacks popping up and they're building, granny flats and, and, and, know, out of tiny homes and things like this really poorly. I've actually seen a few factories that I'm like, you should just shut down. Farah Drake (46:09) So. Are they actually tiny homes on a trailer? Aaron Ng (46:29) Do you see a lot of Yeah. and they're just on a trailer and they just sort of pop up everywhere. there was this especially over COVID. Over COVID, was like Southeast Queensland just exploded and we had 2 billion ground-to-flight builders, but like how many last? And they're selling on Facebook marketplace and all of this for 50 grand and crap like that. And I'm like, this is no good for the industry. Sort of raised that at the end of the point. Farah Drake (46:32) Sorry. Yeah. Yeah, no, this is quite the minefield because ⁓ there is great confusion around what's a tiny home and what's a granny flat or a small second dwelling. The fundamental difference is the tiny homes are on a trailer, so they don't technically have to comply with natural construction code. Aaron Ng (47:00) That's what you never get. Thank you. Farah Drake (47:14) And because it's a different beast altogether. obviously I was at Tiny Homes Expo over the weekend down here and I had to be very mindful how I actually chose my words because I didn't want to be disparaging to Tiny Homes because obviously it's a Tiny Home Expo. But basically at the end of the day, there is a massive movement up in Queensland with Tiny Homes. At the end of the day, they are a caravan. So different rules apply. Aaron Ng (47:24) ⁓ wow. And they ask you to guess me. Massive. Farah Drake (47:38) one of the ladies, one of the organizers from Tiny Homes who's very much into it, she's trying, she does a lot of work in the background to try and get some sort of compliance with the National Construction Code. So, but they don't know how to manage it and it's probably, you know, the higher powers probably decide, too hard basket, push it that side. So at the moment, the major compliance are trailers. We have the thing that the Tiny Homes sits on. Aaron Ng (47:48) Yes. ⁓ Yeah. Farah Drake (48:04) And there are those tiny Aaron Ng (48:04) Yeah, yeah. Farah Drake (48:05) home builders that do the right thing and they try, they do their best to follow some form of a natural construction code guide, you know, follow the line along there. There are others and then the cheap ones that possibly just slap bang them together and well, let's hope it doesn't fall apart as it's on the road. But then when we talk about granny flats, we have to adhere to proper Aaron Ng (48:24) Yeah, that is what I'm concerned about. Farah Drake (48:29) regulations, Australian standards, National Construction Code, probably tied them to the ground, all that sort of thing. But yeah, tiny homes is basically not to butcher it, but it is a caravan. A glorified one. Aaron Ng (48:30) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no good on you because ⁓ when you met, yeah, thank you. No, when you, when you mentioned tiny homes, I was like, wait a minute. And then there's all these things popping up in my head. And then I was like, yeah, I was wondering, are they regulated? And then there's a few, I'm gonna call them hacks again, but there's a few hacks out there that are marketing themselves as granny flat and tiny homes. And then I heard one of them try to take it down the road and the windows popped out because of the shows. Farah Drake (49:05) just gonna laugh. Aaron Ng (49:06) no. And then you're like, and then I start thinking about our conversation far out and I'm like, imagine that was for a little old lady. was her last place. She's going to live in on her family's property and it turns up and it's buggered. Like what the hell are you guys doing? So you can go flog yourself, you know, flog a freaking make a few grand, like stop doing it. Farah Drake (49:15) Be awful. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. But so they're the ones who write probably the hacks and you talk to a whole heap of tiny home builders and they also say there are the hacks in the industry. They're the ones that are trying to do the right thing. They're the successful ones. And then you've got the ones that are just couldn't give a rats and they're, you know, it's just, they don't, yeah, they just don't care. So yeah, it's, it's a really interesting space. Like it's a growing space, but unfortunately the regulations haven't caught up with that. Aaron Ng (49:34) Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah, interesting. Yeah, speaking about regulations. Farah Drake (49:52) Yes. Aaron Ng (49:52) Maybe instead of... You know, reshuffling around the NCC, they should have focused on tiny homes and done something for them. And, know, started regulating it. ⁓ Anyway, ⁓ last question for you. This has been fascinating. Thank you so much for your time. This has been one of the coolest podcasts getting to understand what you do. You're a very different type of Delta. We haven't had many like you on and, and, and personally for me, I think what you represent and how you've carried yourself through your journey is fricking exceptional. Like there's not many out there like you. Farah Drake (49:59) I'm only an idea. Yep. Thank you. Aaron Ng (50:21) My last question is, you know, we are called the good builder. What do you think makes a good builder? Farah Drake (50:25) Yes. Obviously I can only speak from my experience and how I am with my clients and lots of stuff. It's not just the one thing. You've got to have obviously that business acumen. You've got to have oversight with something as simple as cashflow. Being on top of your pricing, all that sort of stuff. We're seeing pricing is increasing again. We've got another COVID situation on our hands with all the oil issues and don't want to touch on that too much because we're all a bit angry and crazy over it. But that's what we're seeing. So you've got to have that really great oversight. Aaron Ng (50:47) Whoa. Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. Farah Drake (50:55) You've got to have that business acumen. You've got to care. You've got to care about your product. You've got to care about your clients and you've got to care about your team. I don't have my team around me. I don't have a business. And I remember our, did a lovely Christmas gathering at this awesome steak restaurant for Christmas. And I got up and said a few words. said, you guys help me run this business. Aaron Ng (50:59) Yeah. Mm. Yep. Yeah. Farah Drake (51:19) If I don't have you, I don't have a business and my team is everything to me. So you've got to build your support network around you as well. You know, we've had challenges with my son and everything and everybody's been there every step of the way supporting me. yeah, your team, your leadership, you got to care. I was going to say you got to give a shit basically. Aaron Ng (51:36) That's cool. Yeah. Well, that's build a speak, isn't it? I go for it. That's build a speak Farah and you are a good builder. I love everything that you said there and that, and that care. it came through when you said it's a privilege. Like it's a privilege to do what you do every day. And I know you treat your team like it's a privilege to work with them. It's a privilege to work with your clients. It's a privilege to work in this industry. I'll tell you what. It's a privilege to have you on the good builder podcast. This was super cool. Thank you so much. No, no worries. No, no. Well, look, as I said to you before the podcast, I am not the good builder. I am just this bloke that sits in the chair and I talk to good builders. Like this is the good builder. I just happened to have the website and, the nerdy technology know how to get the podcast out there fairly quickly. But other than that, yeah. Farah Drake (52:05) ⁓ thank you so much. That's so kind. Thank you. Hahaha Yeah, but you're getting it out of this, are you? Aaron Ng (52:28) Other than that, it's people like you in the industry that make it great and why we want to shine the light on it and, you know, tell, you know, introduce you to what's going on. So anyway, if you need to know anyone up in Queensland, let me know. We know all the suppliers up here and please reach out to us. So if you need anything, yeah, yeah, yeah. But also I'll be calling on you when you're up here, come have a look at the house and see where we can chuck this granny flat for my lovely grandma, mother-in-law, Vicky, who I put on the podcast. Farah Drake (52:41) Fantastic, might be calling on you. Absolutely. Mother of Aaron Ng (52:54) Actually last Monday, which was pretty cool. Did a podcast with her. But anyway, thank you so much for your time. Farah, you're an amazing builder. I wish you all luck with Willow Grove. I'm sure we're going to see you back on the good builder and we'll be doing stuff together. If you're with the chat we just had. So thank you. That was awkward. Thank you very much. Farah Drake (52:57) Fantastic. Thank you so much. It's been an absolute pleasure. Aaron Ng (53:15) I can't end this. Anyway, see ya. I'm just gonna press stop and then we can keep chatting for a sec. Farah Drake (53:17) There you go.