Latest / Cinema Yūgen / Black Pearl Reborn — The RV, The Dreads, The Revolution

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Black Pearl Reborn — The RV, The Dreads, The Revolution · Cinema Yūgen

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G'day. That's right, it's that time again. Time for Cinema Yugen.
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Welcome back Yugenite Cinema Yugen,
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a timely re-release of a visionary micro-budget epic hunted by evil and racing against time,
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a young warrior must battle deadly foes and follow ancient clues to unlock the
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Black Pearl and save his dying world.
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It was the dawn of the digital revolution in film, when cameras got smaller,
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editing software hit desktops, and storytelling was finally in the hands of the people.
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It was also when two young unknown filmmakers, Raoul Gastezzaro and Giovanni
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Mesner decided to throw out the rulebook.
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Armed with a busted RV and $35,000 and an unshakable belief in the power of
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story, they wrote, directed,
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shot, edited, produced, and starred in a genre-bending sci-fi odesty that would
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go on to become the cult classic 10,000 AD The Legend of the Black Pearl.
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Now, 20 years later, the film is reborn under its original title, Black Pearl.
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And joining us now to talk about it is the man who was with us earlier this
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year to talk about his film, The Protector. Now, his passion project from 20
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years ago returns just as he does.
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Welcoming back to Cinema Yugen, Raul Gastezoro.
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Welcome back, mate. Hello, hello. Thank you.
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Joining us live from Istanbul, we have to say. Have you seen Condor Man? No.
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Condor Man. You should check it out. It's great. Uh, no, I just,
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I just, as soon as I heard you were in Istanbul, it's like, I was thinking like
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Condor Man, cause that's like where he goes for like his first assignment.
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He goes like, Harry, where do I get off again? And he goes at the end of the line, Woody, Istanbul.
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And, uh, just made me think of it. So yeah, check out Condor Man.
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Next time you want to sit down and watch a Friday night movie.
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It's a much-loved classic.
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It's got its haters too, but Michael Crawford, who would become the Phantom
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of the Opera and the most beautiful Barbara Carrera and the mighty Oliver Reed, great picture.
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But forget that. Let's talk about another great picture. Let's talk about Black Pearl.
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Now, armed with a busted RV and a $35,000 budget,
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and an unshakable leaf in the
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power of story tell us raul mate tell us the origins of the black pearl.
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Oh man yeah black pearl was a fun one
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basically went to new zealand when i was in college and
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kind of got a download from the planet that we
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had some things to worry about you'll see that as a theme in my films i
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guess yes and yeah i just love
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the idea of again trying to make you know
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this is very much a precursor in professionalism and
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experience to the protector but i think
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that's part of what makes it amazing there were no real
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rules that we had to attend to it was the beginning of the digital
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revolution you know all those things that allowed
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independent film to really blossom but for me
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it was like that that movie really comes from a place of
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having spent a lot of time just out
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in nature and kind of missing that old
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i think we kind of probably grand
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grandize it now this this like deep
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connection to the environment here you
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are indigenous peoples and I wanted to
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make a hybrid of you know kind of like these indigenous
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traditional indigenous warriors with elements of what are now you know intense
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technology so this idea of like mesitating which is how the warriors communicate
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with each other was basically like what we have now is you know, Wi-Fi.
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But tapping in without a device. Yeah, so I don't know, man.
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That movie, it's kind of crazy.
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It's been a long time since I obviously wrote it and shot it,
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but I think it feels even more relevant today than ever.
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I will say, too, I haven't seen it in a while, to be honest.
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It's weird when you make a movie like you you've seen it so many thousands of
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times oh look look i look i i haven't made features but i did like everyone
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in film school made a lot of short films and uh,
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yes yeah you can when when it when other people you know like you you see it
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enough like by the time you finished with it even a short film you're like i
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don't want to watch this anymore you know what i mean yeah yeah totally and
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and i actually still enjoy both of these films but But yeah,
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the interesting thing about Black Pearl... You've seen them more than anyone on the planet.
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Definitely, especially after having written them, imagined them,
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edited them. I mean, both of these we edited together.
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But what's especially pertinent about Black Pearl for me is that it really came from this time where...
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You know 9 11 had just happened things were
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a disaster in the u.s and a.
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Big part of it was this feeling of this the
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united states of america basically kind of.
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Becoming part of like the dark side or something.
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Right yeah you know a young college kid i
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really felt like us leaving the paris accords us
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dropping out of kyoto not being
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present to a lot of the environmental movement and then
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the 9-11 thing which was a whole other bag really
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worried me like fundamentally about america
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as a democracy that stands for good and the
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this idea of the sinasi was actually sin
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and usa spelled backwards uh-huh okay yeah
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i didn't notice that but i didn't notice that but yeah
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i was gonna wait till yeah yeah yeah no
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and i think i that that was you know this idea
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of like a force that is so strong that anybody that
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comes up against it bends a knee sounds a
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lot like trump to me and yeah yeah
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yeah to put it bluntly yeah so
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it's interesting that it's way more relevant now i mean
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my gosh if we like they live you know the john
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calvin oh yeah exactly yeah
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yeah that movie that movie was
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relevant then but i think it's way more relevant now yeah but
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as as in your picture like the the weak being suppressed by the strong i mean
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that's i mean that's an age-old battle too as well i mean that's always prevalent
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you know there's parts of your film did
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were you ever inspired by the the jean-jacques nord film quest for fire.
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His caveman movie with ron perlman and
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ray don chong and everett mcgill and
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it's like there's no dialogue in it it's it's
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it's very much like did you see sasquatch sunset
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i didn't see sasquatch sunset oh you'll
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oh you'll there's another one you'll love man that's one of the
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pictures i really loved in the last couple of years with sas okay sunset
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yeah that's a great okay cool you know
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i haven't seen that's like word of herzog meets jim jarmusch
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it's yeah it's special oh you know i must have seen this at some point i mean
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i can't imagine i yeah no there was just there was just elements of of black
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pearl like some of the sweeper like uh particularly when they're when they're
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you know they're out when i forget the hero's name that would have been.
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Karupi karupi that's it yeah i was thinking okay something but when he's out
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questing with with you because you're you are his mentor that whole trek that
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you do over the mountains there and all it reminded me of uh uh the of like
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quest for fire which is which is very much a sort of a.
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Very much a natural film you know almost
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also like a terence malick film where you know
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it's uh the imagery takes on a poetic
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nature because of the vast landscapes and which also
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gives you great production value in this because you've
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got some beautiful spots where can you tell me where all
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of those places were yeah no
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i mean i think that was kind of my goal was
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to try and both capture a bunch of the world and
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its beauty and and obviously
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a production value to a film that had no money
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because it's very expensive without being expensive yeah exactly
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exactly yeah i mean again you know i'm really
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keen on finding epic locations that do
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some of the work for me i think that's like something
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i've worked really hard at as a director and these
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were all basically i just i went to my favorite places that i'd done an obscene
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amount of camping and trekking and uh and i and i just grabbed my rv and we
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literally lived out of the rv while we were filming It was a tiny, tiny production,
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and that is hard to express how tiny it was.
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But Gio Mesner, who was my co-director, was the other director of photography.
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So he and I would actually, it was just the, it was he, me, and Julian Perez, who played Karupi.
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For most of the movie and it was that was it that was the whole production right
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yeah so i would just have the one camera or a couple depends we did have a second
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camera come in by this this amazing dude kind of joined up and and lent a hand and he was a.
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Black belt in karate and really helped the fight fight
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choreography because i was going to ask about this has got like the fights
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look very choreographed so yeah it was eventually going to get to that but
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yeah carry on no but it was i mean i think you'll find
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it interesting that most of the film was made with when i'm
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like imagine
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when i'm not on screen i'm holding a boom
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mic and a reflector right in costume and
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and in costume and then we're doing we're doing
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the over the shoulder right right where we're
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like you can't see that i'm holding these things right
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to get a piece close up and then julian perez
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would then hold his you know reflector
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right for your shot for and then the
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wides we would just you know do what we could from
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an audio perspective i don't even think we had lavalier mics
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i'm pretty sure this entire film was shot with a shotgun uh and it was you know
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we had to adr half of the movie literally half and we yeah and we did that you
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know in in our edit bay in blankets hidden under the the desk, literally.
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I mean, you know, but you could never tell. I mean, we did an ADR.
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The ADR in this is better than a lot of movies I see, but yeah,
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it was fun. We really pushed the envelope and tried to do...
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I don't know, like a professional job with like, absolutely nothing.
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And so I think for both Gio Vonnie Mesner and I, it was, uh,
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it was our film school making that movie for sure.
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Hey, and what, what, what better
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to, to learn to make a film and actually just get out there and do it.
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I mean, that's everyone's, everyone's advice from Steven Spielberg to Ridley Scott to yeah.
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You name it, there's no, there's no better film school than,
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uh, getting out there and getting your feet in the water.
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Well, and like Werner Herzog would say, like, just, and just go steal it, go get it, you know?
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Yeah, well, as he said, I didn't steal it, I appropriated it.
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Yeah, exactly. Because it wasn't being used appropriately, just sitting there
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on a shelf, so I appropriated it and put it to good use.
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Yeah, no, it's, look, this is, like you were saying, Ned, I was about to ask
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you about the fighting in this, because it is, it, it does look professional.
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It does look choreographed. So this person, as you said, that came along with
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another camera, he was also the, yeah.
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So, so did you have it in the script then not knowing him earlier that you were
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going to have some sort of fights and how to choreograph it?
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Or when he came in, you're like, oh, now we can have fights.
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Cause we can have this dude like.
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Oh no, it was always, it was always about fighting. I always wanted it.
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Yeah. I always wanted it to be.
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The martial arts element to it. Yeah. Well, it's funny.
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Joe, Joe, Joe, Joe, Joe. What's his name?
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Joe Otero. I can't, I can't say his name.
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Was this other cat that he's like the bad guy that shows up.
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That's bald. That's clearly a very good stunt person and fighter. Yeah.
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He's actually like a legit guy.
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Like 10 black belt professional teacher
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of many different martial
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arts so he kind of came he came in to
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to do a bunch of the work and obviously kind of star in the film and
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then our other dude michael johnson i think was his name
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was a total just like savior and
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gift from the universe he was literally i think you
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know 17 years old no joke i think he
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was still in high school and mind you i'm 21 at this point
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right but he he just like his dad was
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like yeah we'll we'll send him out for the summer and he just kind of came in
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and camped out with us and happened to be very very talented and really enthusiastic
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about film but that's often what it takes you know it's just like a couple people
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that really want to learn and get their feet wet and run the hand yeah.
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64 the fighting was awesome the 64 000
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question though is when you cut your hair in the
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film are you're really cutting your hair yeah that is
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real man you're cutting off your dreads so you grew those dreads
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and then cut them yeah the dreads happened while i
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was in new zealand okay and they i i literally spent
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you know six months tramping there and
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the dreads just kind of naturally happened it wasn't like the cool
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it was like right it was very quest for fire
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quest for fire yeah i already had long hair and i
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just went with it and it was funny man those dreads became you know that time
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in history it was not necessarily cool or acceptable to be a white dude with
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big big dreads right you know i could not get a job for the life of me when
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i was making that movie dude everybody was like you might be smart but you look like you're homeless.
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Do something else and yeah
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no all that stuff my my facial hair was real the
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the dreads were real cutting him off was really intense
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when you go to work at the end there and start
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having your you know golem moment and um and yeah that's cutting him off i think
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yeah he's he's cutting he's yeah this is method acting he's really cutting his
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hair yeah that whole movie for me was method man no joke i i while i was making
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it the the rv broke down for quite some time and
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just stopped production yeah and i i was
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so broke making that film that i was living
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in the rv without power by
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candlelight under the furs that were
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the costumes wow yeah no i
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was like a full-on full-on like homeless filmmaker
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really just i think for both of my movies and for me it's been like i think
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i have stories that i want to tell that might be able to help a little or inspire
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somebody to think about the planet or our duty differently so it felt you know
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very method for that one for sure.
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But that's actually my style in general ken to
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be honest because even at my last in the protector i
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played like the drunk cowboy yeah um at the
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bar and i wasn't drunk but to play that
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role i had to show up on set and i didn't
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tell anybody i was in character but i was drunk
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the whole day and by by drunk i
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wasn't actually drinking but i was slurring my speech i
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was stumbling around i was and people you know
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i had several heads of production come up and be like dude what
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are you doing you can't be drunk right now and i'd have to be like no no i'm
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in character leave me alone but like this i'm
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not drunk but i'm i'm i need i need to feel drunk
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you're like edward norton in birdman
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like why did you replace my vodka with water yeah
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exactly exactly what the hell's wrong with
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you i'm supposed to be a professional you think i can't handle being drunk
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on set yeah totally totally i got my loans no well so that's you man this is
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met this is like non-method acting this is method filmmaking like you were actually
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out there against the elements sleeping yeah sleeping in your own furs being
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warmed by the glow of a single candle.
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Literally in winter bro i'll take it let's go now i've got to say at 21 you
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must have been You must've been fit as a whip, mate.
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Cause watching, you really, you really power up those rocks in certain points.
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Did you ever, did you hurt yourself at any point? Cause you're barefoot, aren't you?
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I am barefoot, dude. I was very methoded in that way. I was fit as a fiddle.
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That's hardcore. I definitely, it was hardcore. Cause that is you like power,
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that scene where you power up those like steps or whatever they were,
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or that rocky sort of, it looks like steps. Maybe it wasn't steps.
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No, no, no. That's all. Yeah. like spider-man yeah
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those rock thanks man
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yeah no it was i wasn't really i was i
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was doing i was playing rugby and doing dance and
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way too much yoga and you know i was like very into
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being outside i think i did hurt myself a few times in that movie the the hard
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part was some of the fight stuff we didn't we this is so weird to talk about
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but like we used to really fight right like that That was the time when we were
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actually fighting for fun.
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So it was like no headshot. Yeah, sparring, sparring. Well, no,
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no, no, making contact. Right.
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So like, but no head. Right, yeah.
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Don't punch me in the face, I'm going to work tomorrow. Yeah, exactly.
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So a lot of like, I don't know how much of that actually made in the movie,
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but a lot of the contact in that movie is real contact. And I remember when I was fighting...
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Bunch of the like professional dudes like when i get it there's a
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scene i think where i was playing the sanasi
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so i'm in the crazy cape even though you can't see me and i was fighting a bunch
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of different guys and they were like no hit me dude and i'd be like no like
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you know and like and then we all just actually started kind of beating each
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other up which is awesome wow back in the day yeah.
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When i watch it again i'm gonna watch it differently now i
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mean this is uh this is deep you should have done like
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an audio commentary or something i mean we we have one on
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the dvd oh you do so it is so it is kind
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of physical media as well it's not just a digital well yeah
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i don't know if they're doing a re-release of the physical media but
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you can still buy it off oh you can't still get one okay yeah
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off of indican because when david said he was having
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trouble getting a screener he said oh you might have to buy the
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dvd and i was like well i can get one from like california but
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it's going to take like two weeks to get it but i'm
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definitely going to get one now because i want to listen to that now i'm intrigued
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but so is the film is
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the film altered at all from that that first
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release to what is coming out now or is it is it
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no just same same same bad
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beast i mean the one thing that they are doing is for some
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reason they've decided to put the cover
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photo on amazon as a as a
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dinosaur oh okay so friends and
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folks there is no dinosaur yeah and i've tried very hard to not have a dinosaur
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representative of the film but yeah very clearly they're trying to they're trying
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to get on board with a certain type of marketing going well you know yeah this
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is a primitive man picture so there must be dinosaurs sadly.
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Exactly because we definitely existed at the same time they did for sure yeah,
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but I hate when they do that me too man it feels so disingenuous stupid image
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and you well what's that it's not yeah maybe yeah.
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And they do it a lot with horror films more than fantasy films that they'll
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put something in it and they go, well, there's no chainsaw in it.
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You know, like, why is he holding a chainsaw? He never uses it. He never does it.
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Yeah, totally. But, yeah, it's like how they used to advertise when they used
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to buy, like, foreign genre films, either from Italy or somewhere in Europe.
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And when they would put a Western release, to
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give them a different title and the artwork would be
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some sort of contrived you know
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mashup of fantasy artwork and
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it had nothing to do with the movie you'd
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watch the movie and you go where's the guy with the glowing bow
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where's the guy with
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the sword made out of stone like yeah yeah in
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the poster but not in the in the movie but
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uh there's a but look for everything
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that people might complain is not in the movie the lack of dinosaurs
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there's a ton of heart there's a ton of heart in this movie and and it's look
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it it sounds absolutely incredible what you put yourself through to make it
22:08
i mean in hindsight watching it again all these years later i mean does it,
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is it is it is it something that if if you if you had the choice again knowing
22:20
what you know now would you still do it?
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Oh, hell yeah. That movie was so... I mean, I think both you and I talked about
22:29
that being one of the best adventures we ever went on. You know?
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And that one definitely was never... I mean, never about the money. It was just like...
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Yeah it was such an important at least for
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me it felt like such an important time not only in life and
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the opportunity to be able to adventure like that but also moment to like talk
22:50
about what was happening in the world i mean it's so crazy to think back to
22:53
2005 and how much has changed in the last 20 years yeah well even technologically
22:59
because yeah as we said at the beginning of this This was, that was,
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this was the beginning of, of digital video, which,
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you know, before, before camera phones and everything changed yet again,
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this made it possible for a lot of people who, who wouldn't,
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as, as Coppola famously prophesies at the end of the documentary Hearts of Darkness,
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people who normally wouldn't be making films would be making them.
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And this whole professionalism around uh
23:27
filmmaking would be thrown aside and
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it really would become an art form because anyone who can get hands on one of
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these dv cameras and stuff like that had the potential to even do whatever they
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want yeah exactly exactly and even in the course of filming which was like a
23:43
year and a half from when we started and we we had 24 peak cameras come online.
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So like, even as we were shooting, the digital tech was like improving at least in affordability.
23:57
Yeah, and it does, you know, it makes me think of Apocalypto,
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Mel Gibson's film that was also shot out of the film. That was something that
24:03
I was thinking about while I was watching this, and I was going,
24:05
man, there's Apocalypto vibes.
24:08
Yeah, totally. Yeah, and it's, yeah, I feel like I would definitely make it again.
24:16
I definitely would. I mean. He kind of made Apocalypto similar to the way you
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did it. I mean, because he was really down there. Yeah.
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They were they were using uh even though it
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was uh the motion picture version they were still using
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digital uh shooting on digital yeah and
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i think you know if somebody was like hey this movie
24:34
has problems but like what if we gave you three million dollars to do it again
24:40
but better and differently i would be stoked i mean i feel like that movie is
24:45
like more relevant than ever but I would definitely change some things Are you a big Dune fan?
24:55
You know, I love Dune because I've got Dune vibes out of this too with the power
25:05
that they use you have to learn to harness that thing it's like the weirding way Yeah,
25:11
that's interesting I have not read the books okay i
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also too that it turns out not to be karupi it turns
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out to be his son sort of like paul atreides it wasn't really
25:20
paul it turns out to be his son who's the the real
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uh chosen one you know so that
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i definitely would not have that's what's so interesting to me ken about all
25:31
this stuff is like you're absolutely there's it's really hard not to be derivative
25:36
so i try really hard to avoid stuff that's similar and like the same kind of
25:42
canon before i'm done And then afterward,
25:46
you can pull the puzzle pieces together.
25:50
But I think those stories are those stories because they're like human,
25:55
ancient stories. Oh, sure.
25:59
They all have basis in myths and legends that we already have from.
26:06
Yeah, but it's interesting to me that often that's unconscious.
26:11
Oh, sure, sure. I find that so fascinating. Yeah, I mean, the beautiful thing
26:16
about watching other people's films.
26:20
Particularly if you know their influences,
26:24
you can see how a gener
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each generation has influenced the next you
26:31
know like how brian de palma influenced tarantino
26:34
or how scorsese was influenced
26:38
by a pal and pressburger you know like
26:41
you can just see sometimes it's subtle
26:44
sometimes it's not sometimes they flat out say i stole
26:47
this from that movie because i love it and and that's fine
26:50
too but what i like more is that
26:52
like you say the unconscious influence like
26:56
i've read these stories or i've seen those
26:59
paintings or i've seen those films and love them
27:02
and so you can see like the they're almost like
27:05
how they say easter eggs unconscious easter eggs
27:08
yeah exactly in your film because you've
27:11
been so influenced by a particular story or whatever
27:14
and you're trying to do your interpretation or or unconsciously by telling the
27:19
same kind of hero's journey that exists in multiple stories you're unconsciously
27:23
imitating some of your favorite ones but it's not as you say not conscious so
27:28
it's kind of like a metaphorical easter egg that you stumble across these things.
27:34
Well, and it's interesting, too, like, this, I guess, yeah, Dune's actually
27:37
probably a good reference point.
27:38
And the Denis Villeneuve Dune and Dune 2, like, I adore.
27:42
I think they're some of the better movies of the last, of this entire century. And he's just a genius.
27:49
The interesting thing about this for me when it comes to, like,
27:56
Pearl was that this idea of,
27:58
I don't want to spoiler alert, but like it not
28:02
being karupi who's the actual savior but
28:05
it's like kind of tied to him in some way yes that
28:08
a big part of that for me was a commentary
28:12
on race which i guess i also like is
28:15
a theme in my films but despite being a
28:18
white dude with dreads but like the
28:21
the need hey look it's it's it's more it's relevant
28:24
now there's plenty of threats today yeah
28:28
no totally but yeah this idea of like
28:31
oh you know different i think
28:34
right now we have like caste systems around the globe that are in play and that's
28:39
a big part of what we were talking about with the haran and the plebeians which
28:43
is why they're called plebeians right it's like probably too on the nose but
28:47
also So that the majority of the plebeians we represent are darker skinned,
28:53
which is often the case still, you know, being literal about it.
28:57
And really trying to have the hero be a mixing of those casts and bloods and
29:03
it not being about like, it doesn't have to be a strapping white guy.
29:08
It can be a woman like in the protector. It can be somebody who's mixed like in...
29:13
In black pearl so yeah that was that was actually really important to me as well.
29:19
No look it's it's an awesome movie and it
29:22
was incredible it's been incredible it's more incredible
29:25
now and i i'm going to i'm going to go hunt down a
29:28
physical version because i want to listen to this commentary now but roe
29:32
look mate i'm glad that uh you decide to to
29:35
bring this back out i hope it gets the a
29:38
release that it deserves i hope people check it out would you
29:41
please tell our audience where they can find and
29:44
check out the black pearl yeah it's uh
29:48
black pearl coming at your heart via amazon and
29:52
you know you can still get that dvd if you want the physical copy
29:55
and the director's commentary from geo
29:58
and i off of indican pictures yeah i
30:02
so appreciate you taking the time and i'm glad you enjoyed it
30:05
i did i did very much enjoy it i've written a review for
30:08
film threat i can't i can't tell the audience i'll
30:11
put in the description because i don't know when it'll go on the website but
30:14
have no fear i will send it to you roll along
30:17
with the link for this when the show
30:20
goes live but there will be links in
30:23
the description because there is a trailer and i'll
30:26
put links to where you can find physical media copy because
30:29
i know i'm getting one because i want
30:32
to hear a little bit more but it's been great to talk to you
30:35
again mate we have to stop meeting like this great mates.
30:39
Great movies you'll have to come yeah it's
30:41
an absolute pleasure we'll have a beer and i like
30:45
that plan hair the dog yeah totally but
30:48
yes yet another great movie mate i'm sorry that
30:51
i missed it first time around but i'm glad i got to see
30:54
it this time around i'm glad that it's getting a release
30:57
and it's it's great to see you're a passionate man
31:00
you make passionate movies i can't wait to see what you do next thanks
31:04
mate appreciate you came yes raul gas to
31:07
zoro and the black pearl
31:10
or black pearl check it out links in
31:13
the description all the links you need to know more review
31:16
of black pearl coming soon to film
31:20
threat so keep your eyes locked there but right now
31:23
you can get down get over get out
31:26
get around and check out
31:29
black pearl i know i'll be following the
31:32
links to buy myself a physical copy because i want to hear that
31:35
commentary but you don't have to wait get over to amazon
31:39
and check it out now it is
31:42
an astounding feat of indie
31:45
filmmaking check the links in the description and as always my little eugenites
31:52
thank you for listening to us on spotify or wherever you choose to listen to
31:57
your favorite podcasts i'm ken hill and until next time you've been listening
32:00
to cinema Oh, you're okay!
32:06
Music.