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Healing at Our Own Pace: A Conversation with Tony Morrison · The Steve Harvey Morning Show

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Have you ever wanted a safe space where you can
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  Speaker 1: just exist, where for a moment in time, you can
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  Speaker 1: be you, with all the intricacies and parts of you
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  Speaker 1: that people don't always understand. Welcome to in the deep
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  Speaker 1: stories that shape us. I'm your host, Zach Stafford, and
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  Speaker 1: each episode we create a space to be you, all
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  Speaker 1: of you and all your messy and complicated glory. Every
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  Speaker 1: story shares what it means to be a black and
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  Speaker 1: Latin X man living with different hardships, whether it's a
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  Speaker 1: struggle of identity, discrimination or health, and how they've managed
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  Speaker 1: to push forward despite the circumstance. We hope to get closer,
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  Speaker 1: even if just a little, to a road of healing
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  Speaker 1: and understanding. Hi, everyone, welcome back. Today's guest is really
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  Speaker 1: special because he's also a storyteller. As a producer for
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  Speaker 1: Good Morning America, Tony Morrison gets to share a lot
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  Speaker 1: of stories, and over the years, so many people have
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  Speaker 1: tried at him with their own. However, it wasn't until
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  Speaker 1: late last year that Tony finally trusted the public he
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  Speaker 1: served with his own truth, a truth that almost no
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  Speaker 1: one in his life even new. But before we get there,
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  Speaker 1: let's start at the beginning to better understand this big
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  Speaker 1: moment in his life. As a Filipino American man and
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  Speaker 1: member of the lgbt Q plus community, Tony has long
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  Speaker 1: found himself at a crossroads with his identity, often finding
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  Speaker 1: comfort in silence or within the comforts of a makeshift closet.
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  Speaker 1: And his story begins outside the US, where life took
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  Speaker 1: a great deal from him at a young age. I
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  Speaker 1: was born in the Philippines, actually in Cebu. Anyone's heard
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  Speaker 1: of it out there. And my breath father actually passed
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  Speaker 1: away when I was very young. That was maybe one
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  Speaker 1: or two years old, so you could say, right out
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  Speaker 1: right out the gate in life. In my life, I
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  Speaker 1: was kind of hit with trauma of the worst kind
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  Speaker 1: of loss, you know, and my mom ended up remarrying
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  Speaker 1: to an American and we moved to the States. Is
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  Speaker 1: probably my five years old to go to Old Orlando, Florida.
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  Speaker 1: I was naturalized, became an American citizen in seventh grade.
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  Speaker 1: And you know, looking back, growing up as an LGBT person,
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  Speaker 1: an LGBT kid, I don't know what that meant. I
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  Speaker 1: really didn't know what gay was, you know. I grew
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  Speaker 1: up in a very evangelical household, So there was that
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  Speaker 1: element for me of being signaled that gay was not okay.
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  Speaker 1: But to be quite honest, I always thought that liking
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  Speaker 1: guys was just a phase and I would grow out
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  Speaker 1: of it. That's how I operated my entire childhood and
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  Speaker 1: adolescent life. Later on, my mom and not stepdad, got
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  Speaker 1: a divorce I was probably in middle school, and then
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  Speaker 1: later on in my college years, my stepdad actually passed
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  Speaker 1: away from heart disease and stroke. And in full disclosure,
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  Speaker 1: it's something I'm still working through and in collaboration with
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  Speaker 1: my therapist, I think that this is an area where
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  Speaker 1: I feel that loss and trauma I've just accepted at
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  Speaker 1: our early stage in life. And I use the word
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  Speaker 1: accepted in a very broadway, not in a sense that
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  Speaker 1: it's okay, but to the extent that I feel that
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  Speaker 1: I have accepted what I identify now as trauma, hardship, challenge,
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  Speaker 1: as just things to overcome. It's how do we get
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  Speaker 1: to the other side. Some may call it survival, some
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  Speaker 1: may call it triumph and an overcoming, But I think
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  Speaker 1: that there's something there, at least for me in terms
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  Speaker 1: of at a very young age, I learned that life
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  Speaker 1: is not so nice. I didn't know what to call it,
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  Speaker 1: but we always have a pathway to get through it,
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  Speaker 1: and I think that at the end of the day,
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  Speaker 1: we've been given tools to get through whatever we've been handed.
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  Speaker 1: And for me, it's always been about taking a moment
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  Speaker 1: of pause and whatever situation arises and looking at what
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  Speaker 1: and who's around me that I've been tooled with to
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  Speaker 1: get to the other side. Growing up with two major
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  Speaker 1: losses at a young age really shaped Tony's view of
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  Speaker 1: the world. But he felt these hard knocks were normal,
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  Speaker 1: and as a kid growing up in Orlando, he didn't
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  Speaker 1: see himself as an outcast. In fact, it was quite
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  Speaker 1: the opposite. Well, I think I'm able to articulate it
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  Speaker 1: a little bit more clearly to myself now and to
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  Speaker 1: call things by their name and what it was. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: losing a father, going through divorce as a kid, losing
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  Speaker 1: another parent later on in life. For me, I really
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  Speaker 1: thought that's just how life was. I was a happy,
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  Speaker 1: go lucky kid. I was after school and helping the
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  Speaker 1: front office. I was the nerd, the geek. I was
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  Speaker 1: the canvas activities guy, did all of the clubs. I
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  Speaker 1: was marching band president and our decieted for a and
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  Speaker 1: at the same time, you know, I had never felt
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  Speaker 1: mothered or out of place really, but looking back, it
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  Speaker 1: really was a wonder that I made it through all
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  Speaker 1: that and was able to still be who I was.
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  Speaker 1: In that moment, I thought that just being different was
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  Speaker 1: part of life in the same way that I've I
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  Speaker 1: dealt with again like lost and divorce and quite frankly,
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  Speaker 1: being the only brown kid in the room in public school.
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  Speaker 1: I never felt that that was really a challenge. It
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  Speaker 1: was to me presented as well, this is just how
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  Speaker 1: life is. How are we going to get through it?
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  Speaker 1: How are we executing a plan to overcome and get
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  Speaker 1: to the next And I think that because I didn't
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  Speaker 1: dwell on the challenge in that I was able to
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  Speaker 1: focus on cultivating relationships with so many people and just
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  Speaker 1: being a light in the room without knowing I was
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  Speaker 1: a light in the room, and just being me. So
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  Speaker 1: there's always been an element of let's do this and
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  Speaker 1: just showing up for yourself without knowing what that even was.
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  Speaker 1: You sort of phrase that I've said before, to be
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  Speaker 1: the only brown boy in the room. You know, I
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  Speaker 1: grew up in a part of Tennessee where I was
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  Speaker 1: the only black person in the room and you were similar.
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  Speaker 1: But for me, I just gotta say, like, I didn't
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  Speaker 1: realize it until much later in life to look back. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I mean I think I just I recognized that and
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  Speaker 1: I knew that, but I didn't know how to make
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  Speaker 1: anything of it at the time. But looking back now,
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  Speaker 1: even as we're talking about it, there's many instances where
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  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, I was a representation and I didn't
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  Speaker 1: even know how to represent myself, let alone the community
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  Speaker 1: of people at the time. Yeah. When was the first
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  Speaker 1: time you felt the burden of representation back then? Oh?
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  Speaker 1: My gosh. I really feel like it was into my
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  Speaker 1: college years. Like early freshman in college, I was very
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  Speaker 1: adamant about leaving home at eighteen and doing my own
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  Speaker 1: thing and going out of my way and not to
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  Speaker 1: talk to my parents my first semester of college because
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  Speaker 1: it was all about me, you know, and really kind
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  Speaker 1: of discovering myself and other people. And I really that
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  Speaker 1: first semester was an eye opening experience of like, why
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  Speaker 1: there's so much in the world out there. Tony wore
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  Speaker 1: his l g B t Q plus identity like a
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  Speaker 1: badge of honor, especially during his college years, and like
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  Speaker 1: some of us, he had to learn to toggle between
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  Speaker 1: multiple identities as a gay man, as a brown man,
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  Speaker 1: as an American. For a young person, especially in those
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  Speaker 1: exploratory years, learning who we are comes in phases, but
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  Speaker 1: for Tony that meant shutting down parts of his identity
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  Speaker 1: while he explored others. I think it was really resistant
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  Speaker 1: to the idea of meeting others like me at first,
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  Speaker 1: and because I maybe eate I was so fine with
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  Speaker 1: life and at that part of my life being a
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  Speaker 1: status quo and just focusing on career and maybe relationships.
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  Speaker 1: Maybe at the time it was the wrong relationships to cultivate.
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  Speaker 1: But I remember I did meet a group of individuals.
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  Speaker 1: I'm half Filipino, half Asian Indian, and a group of
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  Speaker 1: brown students were trying to recruit me to be in
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  Speaker 1: you know, Filipino student union of some sort, and I
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  Speaker 1: just remember saying like, I don't need any Filipino friends.
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  Speaker 1: I'm fine, I'm good. I don't need be part of
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  Speaker 1: a body of brown or black individuals. I don't know,
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  Speaker 1: it's so interesting to think about it back then, but
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  Speaker 1: I really was so resistant to becoming part of a
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  Speaker 1: group like myself. You know, and I've had many conversations
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  Speaker 1: about identity, especially in the past couple of years. I
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  Speaker 1: really had always fronted when I was out my LGBT,
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  Speaker 1: I antend, but never really invested in my API identity.
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  Speaker 1: And it's really only been recently where I am really
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  Speaker 1: seeking out more of my kind, my culture. You're not
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  Speaker 1: truly in your fullness unless you're accepting all the versions
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  Speaker 1: of yourself and all your identities. And I think that
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  Speaker 1: that's a transformative place to be in. But I think
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  Speaker 1: it's also a very ongoing process. It's ever changing. You know,
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  Speaker 1: what's it like to move through the world from your
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  Speaker 1: opinion to not be able to see yourself and then
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  Speaker 1: to eventually become like you maybe needed to see it
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  Speaker 1: as a kid. Does it feel lonely when you look backwards?
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  Speaker 1: It does? But I think that you can't come to
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  Speaker 1: that realization until you do see yourself and see yourself
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  Speaker 1: in someone else. You don't realize what you've been missing.
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  Speaker 1: You don't realize how blind you were, even objectively. I
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  Speaker 1: think that you have to let yourself meet that moment
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  Speaker 1: for you to have that realization. Like I remember, for years,
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  Speaker 1: you're talking about visibility, representation all these inclusivity buzzwords. But
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  Speaker 1: when I really saw someone like myself and can envision
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  Speaker 1: myself doing X y Z on television or film or
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  Speaker 1: whatever media, it really hits you in a way that
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  Speaker 1: you can't describe. And then you have a feeling of oh,
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  Speaker 1: this this is visibility, this is representation, and then you
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  Speaker 1: have an understanding for what that is for yourself and
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  Speaker 1: hopefully are able to be in a position to pass
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  Speaker 1: the torch to the next After college, Tony decides to
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  Speaker 1: make a big move to New York City. He slowly
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  Speaker 1: starts to find his tribe, his shows in family like
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  Speaker 1: any family, his began to form these sorts of traditions
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  Speaker 1: together and going to get HIV tested as a group
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  Speaker 1: became one of them. But this feels like a lot
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  Speaker 1: for him. Even though it is two thousand fourteen and
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  Speaker 1: not the height of the AIDS epidemic, HIV still feels
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  Speaker 1: like a scary diagnosis, a death sentence, even to Tony,
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  Speaker 1: so he oppots to get tested a little differently. Suitcase
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  Speaker 1: in a Dream was my moving to New York story.
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  Speaker 1: Moved here with no plan, just love New York and
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  Speaker 1: I had come out officially publicly with a Facebook post
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  Speaker 1: just a few months after moving to New York, and
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  Speaker 1: I had actually found a really great, great group of friends,
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  Speaker 1: young out LGBT people that are twenties, all walks of life,
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  Speaker 1: all different backgrounds, and they were really the foundation for
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  Speaker 1: what we call now a chosen family in this enormously
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  Speaker 1: chaotic environment that is New York City. So we're all
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  Speaker 1: hanging out. A couple of months after I moved to
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  Speaker 1: New York, we saw out in I believe is West
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  Speaker 1: Village area alside one of the bars that were there
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  Speaker 1: were one of these HIV testing trucks, and one of
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  Speaker 1: my friends were like, let's all go get tested together.
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  Speaker 1: It'll be fun. It's like a cool group activity. And
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  Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't know, that's like fun. What starving
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  Speaker 1: was the excitement about doing it as a group activity
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: because it was such a personal thing, especially that particular test.
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  Speaker 1: You know, and I'm here, i am, I'm a new
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  Speaker 1: out gay in New York, and again all I've been
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  Speaker 1: signaled was growing up gay is bad. This is not
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  Speaker 1: good your lifestyle, And the worst possible thing that can
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  Speaker 1: happen to you is we'll get HIV and you'll dyeing. Period.
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  Speaker 1: That's the storyline, and so having that in the back
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  Speaker 1: of your mind, it's like, I don't know, this is
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  Speaker 1: not like a really fun group activity that I want
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  Speaker 1: to be involved in. So we kind of brushed it
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  Speaker 1: off when God drinks whatever. But I was filled with
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  Speaker 1: curiosity the rest of that week. So at that time
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  Speaker 1: in New York, say, there was a huge campaign for
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  Speaker 1: just testing. Test here tests, there's at home tests, and
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  Speaker 1: I at home tests, and I tested when I got home,
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  Speaker 1: and testing positive for HIV is as terrifying and awful
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  Speaker 1: as it sounds, full stop. Period. This was in twenty fourteen.
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  Speaker 1: No one really told you what to do when you
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  Speaker 1: got a positive result. And that's some part of my
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  Speaker 1: conversation to now is what if I had a holistic
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  Speaker 1: testing experience with information about the I the resources where
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  Speaker 1: I didn't have to find different programs or four different
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  Speaker 1: types of insurances to pay for my medication or who
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  Speaker 1: to go to and all this just stuff that I
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: had to find all on my own, and it was
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  Speaker 1: a really difficult time. One of those guys in that
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  Speaker 1: initial group that I mentioned was actually one of the
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  Speaker 1: first people that I told about my diagnosis, and it
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  Speaker 1: was three days after carrying this knowledge alone by myself
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  Speaker 1: because I didn't know how to share it or to
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  Speaker 1: tell people. I really thought it was the end. I
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: really really didn't think it was the end. And I
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: took a few days off work just to figure things out,
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  Speaker 1: to get these confirmatory tests, you know, these clinics, and
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: to find these resources. But um, yeah, it was a
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  Speaker 1: really difficult time. Yeah, it sounds I mean it is.
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  Speaker 1: One of the first things people often tell me is
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  Speaker 1: they're like, I don't know who to tell. And it
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: sounds like you went through that whole process too. So
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: in that moment, how did you decide who to reach
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  Speaker 1: out to in one of the darkest moments of your life.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: I think it was is just really thinking through who
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: would still love me. I knew there might be an
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: element of disapproval or a worst case scenario reaction, even
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: from your closest friends, because again, among our whole group
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: of friends, straight or gay, no one was really right
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: in on this stuff, you know, or what to do
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: or what what the medical advancements of the time were,
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: what your options were. So for me, it was really
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: calling through the friends who I thought who might be
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: able to help me, not just through this moment, but
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: to help fix me, I think, And what did fixing
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: you look like? Then? I mean, I think it was
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: the ultimate fantasy of this is a false positive. There's
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  Speaker 1: a way to undo this. Maybe someone knew someone that
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  Speaker 1: could help me find the right medication, how to keep
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  Speaker 1: it under wraps, finding individuals that would help me honor
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  Speaker 1: that level of confidentiality and privacy. And there's a lot
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  Speaker 1: to go through as a twentysomething New new Yorker. Did
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: you feel like New York was over for you in
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: this moment? Or how did life look different in that
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: moment for you? Looking forward? I mean, I definitely thought
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  Speaker 1: I had an expiration date for sure, And in all
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: of my visits to get blood work done and the
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: endless passing of me to different clinics and offices, I
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: was really just waiting for that moment of you're done
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: for you know, that confirmed piece of sound or news
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  Speaker 1: that everything I've harbored in my mind was true. But
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: it really was a doctor who was so kind and
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: I literally did ask her like, am I dying? How
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  Speaker 1: many days do I have left? Like straight up just
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  Speaker 1: asked her because she came in with my labs and
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: she kind of smirked at me, and I was like,
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: this is so rude, because I'm not trying to be dramatic.
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  Speaker 1: But she was the one that explained to me what
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: we know now as you equals you undertactable, equals, and transmittable.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: And she just told me how life would be just fine.
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  Speaker 1: And that was my first interaction of there isn't an
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  Speaker 1: end I don't have an end date. This is wild.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: It was so groundbreaking for me to understand that, to
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: the extent that I really didn't want to believe her. Yeah,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: you're a smart person, so you can intellectualize things, but
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: you also feel things. In these intellectualizing and feeling are
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: very different. So intellectually you hear from this doctor you're
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: gonna be okay, you're gonna live. When did you begin
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: to feel that in your body. I think it took
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: actually seeing the science, seeing the test was aults, and
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: being in close contact with her because again, like she
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: told me this news of it's not the other world.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: We get you on medication, like you'll be fine, good
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: as new. It was so simple, and I was like,
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  Speaker 1: there's no way. That's not what i've that's not what
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: i've heard, that's not what I think, I know it
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: was an absolute rejection of that idea that things would
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: be okay. But as we dug into my experience and
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: got these test results and got everything under control, it
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: became the most managed thing in my life, and it
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: continues to be the most managed thing in my life.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: I think that was the foundation of a lot of hurt.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: I felt like I went out of my way to
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  Speaker 1: make sure that I was in good health and to
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  Speaker 1: ensure that others around me we're also in good health.
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  Speaker 1: And to know that and to have that experience of
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  Speaker 1: being okay again, it was really a letdown to have
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: these negative experiences in life, in dating and going out
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  Speaker 1: and off color jokes at brunch, and I was like,
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  Speaker 1: do you not know anybody who's living through this? Tony
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: only trusted a very select few with his diagnosis, and
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: for a while, he says, he felt the need to
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: go back into the closet to heal, to get healthier,
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: to take care of himself. But Tony is no stranger
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: to telling stories, and as a producer, it's his livelihood.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: After living through the COVID nineteen pandemic lockdown and showing
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: stories of people like himself, he made a bold decision
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: to write an essay for Good Morning America, where he
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: courageously trusted the public with the biggest story he'd ever
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: shared his own. I was hit with this diagnosis at
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  Speaker 1: that time. It just wasn't okay and acceptable. And the
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: idea was, you're gonna give it to other people. You're
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  Speaker 1: gonna die, Everyone's gonna die. It's not a good situation
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  Speaker 1: to be. It's the nightmare of having an LGBT son
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  Speaker 1: or daughter. You know, it's a culmination of bad. It's
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  Speaker 1: a punishment to consequence for the life that you're living.
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  Speaker 1: And that's what was drilled in my head. And I
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  Speaker 1: felt like it's something that I couldn't live with for
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: a long time because it's not It wasn't something that
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: society could live with. And I think that's what I'm
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: on a mission now, is everybody has got something and
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: this is something that society has to live with. I
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: feel because we have been living with this and people
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: who are going through this for so long. It's the
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: base element of LGBT community. We we are here, We've
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: always been here. This group of individuals has been here
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: for a long time. Thanks to emerging science, you know,
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: We've come a long ways, and I think that we
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: all a lot to those people before us as well.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: We surely do, we, surely do. I take your discussions
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: on the person shoudnt people have around HIV and the
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: stories they say that aren't right. I take you saying
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: that with a lot more weight because you work in
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: media and your job literally is looking at stories all
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: day long, every day, and I want to ask about
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: that you were in the closet, will say, as an
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: HIV positive person. Note, people don't need to come out
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: publicly and you just positive HIV. That's not like a
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: requirement totally, But you were not talking about it and
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: in the ways in which you talk about it now.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: But you're seeing stories every day of queer people of
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: HIV positive people. What was that like to be sitting
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: in a newsroom in a control room seeing these stories
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: and seeing yourself in them, but not knowing do I
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: say something? Do I talk about it? It's been a
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: very unique evolution, and I've been taking on a lot
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: more LGBT programming and storytelling and leading a lot of
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: that here at the network for ABC and Good Morning America,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: And like you said, I lift up stories for undrepresented communities,
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: including people living with HIV, but never having provided my
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: own context or my own connection to my own experience
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: while I'm telling other people's stories. And that had weighed
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: on me for a number of years. And it took
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: COVID in the lockdown and an environment of loss to
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: really forced me to pause and think about what I
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: had been doing, positioning my story in a way that
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: was still closet in, and the conversation is changing by
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: just having these conversations. It's actually so wild to me.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: I really came to a place where I was releasing
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: this essay as a personal story and doing in a
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: very public way because I got to a place where
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: I was realizing how sad and not in my fullness,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: I was bringing myself two meetings or two friends around me,
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: and again that environment of loss. I really began to
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: think how unfair it was for me to be so
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: sad but be perfectly fine and have a perfectly great
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: life to live. And I feel like, wow, that's such
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: a waste. And I really wanted other people to kind
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: of get on board. You know, this was the experience,
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: and it's an experience like so many others, and I
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: think that the feeling of being and other and being mothered.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: That's the trope that I feel like everybody has been
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: latching on. It's been really shocking to me how many
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: people have reached out and said how how much my
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: story has meant to them, and what parts of my
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: story affects them. That's been the really unexpected part. And
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: today I'm the happiest ever. I I never knew I
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: could be so happy and fulfilled by living in my
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: fullness in this way. And it realized also how many
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: other parts of my life were being affected by keeping
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: this part hidden away to where or Once I gave
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: myself permission to live in my fullness, everything just turned.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: What advice would you give to someone listening that they
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: don't want to come out publicly, they want to remain private.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: How do they do that? How do they stay healthy
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: and happy? In your opinion? For sure, this is not
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: a you have to come out with anything conversation. You're
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: not Harvey Milk come out everybody. I mean, sure, there
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: is power in that, but there is also power and
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: being honest with yourself and how you want to live
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: your life. And if you do want to come to
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: a place, whoere you want to be public about parts
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: of your life, great, go for it. But I feel
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: like you have to let that moment meet you. Is
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: my take on that. Let the opportunity come to you
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: versus you force and that opportunity. And earlier we're talking
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: about looking at the tools around you for how to
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: get through something. I didn't have the tools I have
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: today mentally, literally, metaphorically, professionally as a journ analysts and
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: covering the stories I have for the past few years.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: It took me eight years to get to this point,
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: but I didn't have the tools five years ago, six
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: years ago, seven years ago. So this opportunity, this moment
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: met me and then in the end it was up
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: to me to meet that moment. And I would tell
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: people living with HIV today my goal is, I want
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: people living with HIV to be seen. I want people
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: living with HIV to know they are seen in our world.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: I see you, we see you, and you belong here
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: because for so long I felt that I didn't belong
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: here because I let a diagnosis to find me. That
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: was the unfair part that I didn't give myself that
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: permission to live and love. Yeah, that's so beautiful and
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: it makes I have to ask, do you regret going
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: down the path that you've been on? This like eight
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: years of quiet, the regret, the fears, all that. Do
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: you regret it all? Would you do it exactly the
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: same way? I've asked myself that, And I'm not prepared
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: to say yes or no, but only that I had
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: to go through what I did to be able to
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: articulate the message for myself and for others that i'm
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: able to today. What I hate, and I'll use the
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: word hey, what I hate is how I made myself
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: feel over the course of those eight years. There's a
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: lot of learning, but I hate that I didn't have
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: conversations like this to look to or other people who
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: raised their hands and said, I'm living with HIV. Here's
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: my experience. It's gonna be okay. So that's part of
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: what I'm doing now and really exposing this part of
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: my life is I really hope I can be a
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: light to others who are struggling and to say that
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: your story matters, our story matters, and that it's going
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: to be okay. Yes, men will be okay. Talking to you,
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: I feel relief. I don't know why I feel like
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: I'm very like, oh my god, because everything you've told me,
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: you've you've overcome multiple father figures, a father and another
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: father figures dying you, you have immigrated, you have moved,
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: you have overcome and overcome, and you're so happy you are,
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: and you're so hopeful, and then this pandemic, no one's
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: hopeful anymore. So Tony, final question, with all those hope
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: in freedom and truth, what comes next for you? What
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: are what are you looking forward to? Because right now
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: it feels like you're in uh nirvana. Well we're looking
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: at our husband's there manifests. We want to let that
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: opportunity come to me again. That strategy, Oh my gosh.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: But you know what, Zach, it's uh. I feel like
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: I've always been this positive, just driven individual. But I
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: think in the time we're in now and my experience
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: and all that I stand for now, I think that
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: I've seen the alternative and I feel like I've really
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: had that near death experience, or at least in my mind,
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: you know. So it has to be what's next in
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: the most positive way. It has to be after the
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: best for yourself and others and really leaning into your potential.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: And I'm excited. I don't know what tomorrow may bring,
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: but that actually that uncertainty, it really excites me in
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: a way that in the past I was really afraid
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: of that uncertainty. Yeah, and something else before I let
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: you go. And also I'm gonna be thinking of men
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: for you now. Um is uh. I feel like you
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: have proven this thing someone said to me this week
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: is that like to be kind, you have to be
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: kind to yourself, because your story really embodies that, because
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: I would argue you're probably the most kind of her
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: now that you've been so kind in public to yourself.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you like sharing my story going through this experience,
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: especially in a public way, but for everyone listening, you
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: don't have to do in a public way. I think
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: just sharing your story just makes you more compassionate and
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: you just see what it is you're missing when you're
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: not living to your full potential, and when you are,
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: you see that in others as well. So it just, yeah,
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: it's right on, And I think that that's really a
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: product of not taking life too seriously and just letting
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: yourself live. As a society, we've all been wired to
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: believe that moving backwards isn't something good. But what if
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: going backwards isn't seen in a negative way, but instead
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: of moment that we take to process the present, to heal,
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: to accept our realities, to fully enjoy what is to come.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: Tony teaches us that even in the moments where we
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: feel the most hopeless, it is the trust that we
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: have for our closest family, our friends, for ourselves that
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: helps us continue pushing forward and taking the time to
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: listen to our needs. Following our own timeline is perhaps
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: the bravest thing we can do for our well being.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: This has been in the deep stories that shape us.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: Find this episode and others on the Heart Radio app,
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Don't forget
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: to share, rate and review if you enjoyed this conversation.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: The show is produced by Yvonne Chian and master by
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: James Foster. Our show researcher is John and Raggio and
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: our writer is Dvette Lopez. A shout out to our
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: guest Tony Morrison. I'm your host, Zach Stafford